Debunking the Difficulty - Punch-Out!! (NES)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Punch-Out!! is a 1987 boxing video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES). Part of the Punch-Out!! series, it is an adaptation of the arcade video games Punch-Out!! and Super Punch-Out!!.
This is the Mr Dream version. I honestly thought this was the original version and they added Mike Tyson as a special edition later on, but that was not the case.
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The first 90 seconds of the Tyson fight is simultaneously the toughest part of any boss fight on the NES and the most realistic sports moment on the NES.
going up against iron mike tyson, sounds about right
especially since tyson took literally 90 seconds to be KO Michael Spinks and Carl the Truth Williams lol..
@@14spokenwords It would have been cool if for the 1990 remake where they swap Tyson for Mr Dream, they put in famous opponents that Tyson beat down in the mid to late 80s. Would have been a nice touch.
I always thought that you're almost playing AS Tyson in this. Like Mac is a white version of Tyson lol. Tyson started his professional career at 17 and Mac is 17, Mac is from New York and so is Tyson, both had REALLY good trainers (I think Doc Louis is a reference to someone on Muhammad Ali's team or something?), no one had any real expectations for Tyson when he started, the scouting reports on him weren't too impressive.
@@SirJoelsuf1 ho Lee mindblown
I Beat Mike Tyson all the time but for some strange reason I can’t beat Glass Joe
The NES version of Punch-Out!! almost feels a puzzle game disguised as a boxing game, and it has a shockingly large amount of depth to it once you take a look at the various strategies that speedrunners use. Easily one of the greatest NES game of all time.
By that metric, aren’t all games puzzle games?
@@opaljk4835 to different degrees.
Much, much, much closer to the first rhythm game, than a puzzle game.
@@iami3rian394 I see it as less of a "rhythm game" or "puzzle game" and more of a "press buttons at the correct time in response to audio-visual cues in order to accomplish the task the game asks of you" game....
@@pullt you have described every video game ever.
This series is really good at making me remember how badly I struggled with hard games back in the day.
I find it weird when people says they "struggle" with a game, because the only times that I feel struggle when playing a videogame is when I don't like them or I'm burned out, which is the point of "stop playing, it's not worth it".
@@dimwarlock Struggle in the context of the above comment means they had a tough time getting though the game. That doesn't automatically mean they were burned out or didn't like the game. Just that they didn't progress much as they hoped for (maybe for the difficult or something else). The example being for me is Battletoads, it was a struggle to get through the game, not because of anything else, but just for the difficulty. Maybe you don't agree that people should use that word for something that is difficult, but what can you do. Please excuse my poor english, it's not my native language.
@@dimwarlock Nikola is right, we’re all different ages when we play games, and growing up 80s unless you knew a gamer, were just good at picking up cues or clues,or had Nintendo Power strats, we struggled having young brains 🧠 & just a hulking giant like Bald Bull or Tyson was intimidating in itself 😢😅. We’re also having the 8bit time of our lives even renting games or lucky if we could have allowance to buy them, or get parents to gift them
5:10 I was today years old when I noticed Don Flamenco is listed as "Age 23." Look at dude's face - he had a rough life. Great vid.
Much mileage.
Never really realized at the time how much of an achievement it was to beat this as a kid back in the 80's
Me neither! I used to ho-stomp my way through this game. I dominated Tyson's ass! Probably more of a testament to the fact that I played it waaaay too much more than anything
@@christco120 same
Just last week I asked my best friend since kindergarten "do you remember when you beat King Hippo?" I was sleeping over at his house (maybe 13 years old) we were struggling through the game. I passed out and he kept on playing. His father was a janitor at a local school and did 4:00am clean up at a strip mall next door on the weekends, which we helped with. I can never forget how excited he was, in the morning dark, picking up garbage, explaining how he beat King Hippo. THAT was gaming!!
Man all of us that were kids in the 80’s, smh it was hard as hell to beat a lot of these “NES” games. Kids these days and ones that were born in the time frame of when the internet was a thing to look up stuff.. those kids be like “ oh hell yeah it was hard” and trying to claim as if there in are era. We didn’t have the opportunity to look up codes and etc. we had to rely on kids who had the Nintendo magazines or the kids who’s parents allowed to call the 1-800 number for help and tricks on games.. I remember you were the shit, top dawg if you beat certain games. It was a beautiful time if you were a kid in the 80’s.. God I wish we could go back sometimes.. I think it’s kinda stupid they took off iron Mike from the game I know why but still isn’t the same.. this guy especially in are era it be like who the hell is Mr.Dream that game wouldn’t have been as badass as it was it was “Mike Tyson” that had that title that who you bragged about beating..
Infinite bragging rights
Mike Tyson's Punch Out is like a life long beat , meaning it took me years till I finally told myself when I was like 15 or 16 years old told myself Mike is going down tonight I don't care how long it takes and a few grueling hours later he was done but I could get to him and sometimes come close but could never beat him, until that night, it's like it all of a sudden dawned on me that I just had to put all the strats together and make it happen 💪😉
I'm 16 rn and I am having trouble with sandman
Ryu, for the second Bald Bull fight, the indicator for when to punch during his bull charge isn't the camera flash, it is the bearded guy on the front row on the left side of the screen. He will duck his head down when it is time for you to strike. He is the 5th audience member from the left in the front row.
Also if you dodge the first, he only backs up halfway and it's easier to punch him in the gut
@@robfrancois True, once he starts his bill charge he goes into an endless loop that only has 4 available outcomes. 1. Knock you down 2. Get knocked down 3. Miss and repeat or 4. Time runs out for the round.
Strangely enough that audience member doesn’t even move in this video…I was watching and waiting for it but it never happened. Then I realized it’s in the second fight. Came here to see if anyone else knew about this.
@@joebeezy9471 If I remember right, that same audience member is an indicator for Super Macho Man’s quick spin punch as well.
@@ShinAkuma76different guy, for macho its the sunglasses
Fun fact of the second fight with Bald Bull, there is still a visional queue to hit him during the Bull Charge. The bearded man to the left of Bald Bull will “nod” and that’s the timing to hit him.
Shh… don’t tell them my secret!
I just count the jumps, third sound I punch, works every time. They try to throw you off with the echo on the bounces, but it's easy when you get it down
You're thinking of Piston Honda. For Bald Bull, it's the camera flash.
@@DemureDave Watch back at the second Bald Bull fight 15:13 when he charges and you will see the bearded man nods as well.
Second bald bull can't be KOd
Love the update to the Debunking format. Your analysis at the end is a welcome addition. It keeps the format fresh and it also opens so many more titles up for investigation.
I played this game repeatedly for an entire summer as a kid. There are definitely a ton of strats for it but it's just more fun to challenge your own reaction time. Loved this one!
Please bring more of this series! It is the absolute best.
Love to see new retro content from Ryu
Fun trivia
It is said that glass Joe's one win is against Mike Tyson himself
According to tyson, before release, he was shown the game and allowed to play through it to see if it met his approval. Tyson was so awful at the game he was knocked out by glass Joe and couldn't demo the game further
Apparently the developers through in the 1 win in glass Joe's record as a little reference to that
Sourced from Tyson's Reddit AMA
This is without question my favorite series on TH-cam. I'm glad you keep doing them. Please never stop. You always have such a great personality. You bring such good vibes and it's fun to watch you game, especially on these retro games.
If you haven't done it yet, I'd love to see you do battletoads.
Here's a little bit of trivial knowledge about the theme music of Punchout. The jingle was for a TV show called Gillette Cavalcade of Sports, and the jingle was called "Look Sharp/Be Sharp March". It has lyrics and all!
Look Sharp Be Sharp March ok thanks
This game is the game that made me cry
In the original arcade Punch Out you were a normal sized dude in scale with the other boxers and you were wireframe and transparent so that you can see what the other boxer is doing. The NES was much less powerful and couldn't do any of that and so they made your character tiny instead.
God that game was great... so many quarters!
It went that way on the SNES version
And thanks to that Lil Mac was born
Guys wanna play arcade punchout .
Play Mame..
Honestly the arcade is not very fun compared to the NES or SNES games
I really like this new format. Not all games will be debunked but a concise analysis at the end to reason why gives a lot more options for content then only making a definitive "Oh yeah, I debunked this game" video.
Looking forward to much more of these.
Love your new approach to the series. It was a nice little surprise to hear it CANT be debunked. Enjoyed watching this a ton
Uppercut his stupid face is the best line in entire episode haha lol good job ryu.
The Great Tiger’s turban blinks before he throws a punch. If you punch him BEFORE he throws a punch, it’s an immediate star. He’s also a sucker for body shots when he crouches.
Great video! Would love to see you attempt Bionic Commando or Zelda 2. I know they're longer games, but Zelda 2, Bionic Commando, and punch out are my favorite NES games. Would love to see the trifecta.
Ryu did zelda 2 many moons ago, I’m sure of it. Edit : Yeah it was part of his extraordinarily hard games compilation on his main ryukahr channel. Deffo worth checking out
@@hayesblake I've seen that one, he didn't get very far though. I want to see him return to it for debunking like he did with ghosts and goblins
@@firestar4430 yeah it’s true he never finished it but thought it was at least mentioning in case you weren’t aware of the vid. 👍🏻
25:11: That's not just a dude, that's Rocky Marciano! The change was made that way, because they were using a theme that was used for the Gillette Cavalcade of Sports; that theme being the "Look Sharp March".
The change from Tyson was because he was convicted of rape in 92.. carts were still in production at that time and rape is a big no no for Nintendo.
That's why he was changed.
According to PunchOut! Lore, the only win Glass Joe has is against Nick Bruiser, the final boss of Super PunchOut on the SNES.
I'd love to see you play the Wii Punchout. That game is underrated and has a ton of strategy and personality.
And the memes
"Release the- Bogus!"
That's a really good game, he could also do super punch out
SO underrated!! Such a great sequel, faithful to the original punch out games while adding new “puzzle elements” to the fights.
I wish they had a new game planned for the switch!
My favorite NES game! I finally beat Tyson (Mr. Dream) about 4 years ago
in bald bull 2, there is a bearded guy in the top left that quickly nods his head when you need to punch.
Great video and a trip down the memory lane.
To my knowledge, similar buffer strats like the one was used against "Piston Honda" (20 RPs, 10 LDs, 9 LPs) exist for other matches as well.
Of course, what you need to do differs from fight to fight but that's basically what allows the infamous 'blindfolded' runs to exist.
On The Great Tiger's fight, if you immediately punch him when the gem on his head flashes its a guarantee star. he usually goes down if you use the star soon as you get it
Also hit him in the gut as he goes for his uppercuts. When he bends down hit him in the gut and get stars.
I remember getting trashed by the later guys alot. I don't think I ever understood the buffering buttons or the speed punches. This was a great attempt at debunking this bunk.
Daaaaaang! I hadn't even considered this one for this series. I love it
Getting stars on Bald Bull is super easy. If you jab him right before he throws a hook, it’s usually a star. And if he blocks it, he will immediately throw another hook, you quickly dodge it, and follow up with a few left/right combos
Also, if you punch him in the face when he shuffles his hands, it’s usually a star too.
This
For 15:20 you have to look to the middle left for the guy with the beard to pop his head for the que to knock bald bull. I also believe this works for Piston Honda as well.
One of my favorite NES soundtracks and games, it is difficult and if you are determined to beat Mike you're committing to learning his passcode by heart
"Alright, so Glass Joe's dead."
You definitely made it look easy. I struggled in the last circuit as a kid. But I gotta replay this at some point after watching this! This also reminded me of this kid in class that told us that King Hippo got back up after he knocked him down... we knew he was full of shit ever since then 😂
I think he only does that if you knock him out with a method other than punching him in the stomach. Dunno, rarely get the opportunity with how clunky stars are for him and he is immune to normal uppercuts. Been so long since I played...I am very sad that my NES died
Fun Fact: King Hippo doesn't even have an animation for getting uppercutted
You can't even get stars on Hippo
He made it look easy because he looked up strats and clearly played before making this video. Made obvious by the way he was speaking about the game while playing.
@@nathanielbass771 He can't be knocked out by a method other than punching him in the stomach
Oh no, Ryu gonna expose my only weaknesses!
I like the humble brag on bald bull fight 2, you're the man dude!
He's so hard I cannot even get close to beating him
I can't believe all these years all I had to do was what you did and instead of knock them down in the first round, leave them at low health. I never got past Mr. Sandman. I'm furious that's all you had to do.
I remember this channel called Kingdom Carts, and this guy had insane tutorials of Punch Out that was super in depth. It went as far as even saying which had to punch guys with based on how much health they lose. It was a strategy guide that taught speed run strategy and just strategies in general. One day the channel just disappeared, I have never been able to find these videos since either.
I appreciate that new perspective to your approach on this series. The Silver Surfer Debunk is a bit hard because you basically say "don't ever get hit and you'll be fine" without ever exploring what happens if you DO get hit. That's not something most people can simply follow along.
My suggestions for more episodes: Friday the 13th on NES and of course Goonies II!
please be quiet. dont tell people what to do. Also, there are thousands of other channels that have played these games and beat them. open your eyes and use your brain. stop being weird and loyal to some TH-camr.
Even after almost 40 years, the best advice and strat still is:
Dodge his punch and counterpunch.
I love how this game uses the same sound effects as Zelda 2. I’ve actually never played it before but I’d recognize those sounds anywhere! Love this series Ryu!
Your game room is legendary. An old Dad's dream. Great video on a great game!
Yo Ryu I was able to beat Mike Tyson..... WITH SAVE STATES!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Love these man, cathartic for my nostalgic gaming difficulties on rentals.
Punch-Out is one of my absolute favorite NES games. To this day, I have never beaten it. I can get to Tyson/Mr. Dream…but I’ve never even gotten close to beating him. The difficulty increase between everybody else and the last guy is pretty deflating.
I freaking love the Fat Buu you have in the background. That's amazing!
Not done with the video yet, but I find it hilarious how he keeps saying "We killed him" or "when he kills you", even when just talking about knockdowns lol.
I noticed that too lol
Enemies you're supposed to block attacks of have you start with more stamina than most fights.
Mr Kahr. Would LOVE you to debunk Super Punch Out!
I think your new take on debunking the difficulty is smart. It will easily make this a more interesting series, and I already enjoyed this series.
I don't know anyone with this version of the game today. They all have the original.
A certain level of reaction time is necessary to complete this game, yeah. Like you said, there's a number of areas where you can get punished for anticipating - you have to react. I found this game becoming increasingly more difficult as I've gotten older and my reaction times have slowed.
I'm sure you're in my head Ryu, I was just wondering yesterday if you'd played Punch-Out!
"There are strategies to kill him fast." Ryu, this is boxing not Contra, if you leave a man dead in the ring *you* lose, not them.
There are a couple of things that Ryu got wrong in this video, but I can never be mad about someone playing a game that I love such as Punch Out. Keep up with the good content man.
He was wrong about Von Kaiser right? He was thinking about Don Flamenco where he said you can hit him forever if u alternate punches, he also missed that u can punch him in the face for a star when he twitches and when u use the star in the middle of a combo it's an automatic KO
I just got to the part where he corrected himself
For Bald Bull, there is a tell for when to dodge or counter his bull rush. In the Audience, there's a bearded guy on the left who doesn't move a muscle until the bull rush.
It's hard to see in the video, but when the bearded guy ducks, that's the window to react and throw a punch or duck.
he makes this game look so easy
Did you mention that you can heal when they are knocked down?
This was quality content. I like the inquisitive approach and the analysis at the end.
You absolutely can beat Soda Pop in round 1 with normal dodge and punching.
new series idea "bunking the difficulty"
These are the videos I’m subbed to this channel for, been waiting for you to get back to this game
I forget which late show it was, but they had Mike Tyson fight himself in Punch Out. Let's just say he should stick to fists, not fingers.
Great video as always! We need you to do Jekyll and Hyde!
This is genuinely one of the most skill-intensive and genuinely difficult NES games. You have to have good reactions and execution to complete it. There are many random elements that bait you into anticipation, as well. And the first 90 seconds of Tyson/Mr Dream is a total nightmare that really tests how well you can react, since those punches have zero room for error.
Knowing that makes those blindfolded runs so much more ridiculous to watch.
Little surprised this shook out the way it did; I was sure it would be on the fence, but I thought you'd come down debunking it. Either way, I appreciate the honest look at retro video game difficulty, rather than relying on dusty memories or memes built on same.
Spot on analysis, i felt pretty much the same way. The first 6 fights are embarrassingly easy, but afterwards it starts to ramp up in difficulty increasingly, finishing off with the final two otherworldly opponents. Macho man and tyson are to me top 3 and 1 hardest fights respectively in the entire series due to their tankiness, damage, and speed.
I wondered what the judgement would be, as the difficulty in the latter half is entirely dependent on your reaction speed and the accuracy of your timing. Someone naturally skilled can probably find it easy (if a little cheap/annoying by the end), while someone else might find it truly impossible regardless of how much they play and practice. That, and any input or display lag can be a killer.
it's not even the original either. He punches for 1:30 in the original and you can't block (instant knockout)
@@nathanielbass771 Supposedly the only differences between the Tyson and Dream versions are cosmetic. And you apparently can block Tyson, but even the blocked punch takes most of your life, meaning you can only do it once.
This game is full of nostalgia for me. It was the second or third game I got with my original NES back in 1986. The anticipating punches/moves got me a lot in this game, but I did prevail and beat it. Thanks for the great video. 👍
For Bald Bull, the secret to the first battle is "One-Two-Punch". Right when he starts his charge, count "One-Two-Punch" like you're counting 1-2-3. The second fight is "One-Punch" because he jumps back one hop less. I never knew about the camera flash, but Doc's hints between rounds will occasionally tell you this.
I saw a lil kitty 🐈 in the background😍
This game without Mike Tyson's faces means nothing to me.😅
On DF2, punch him to body as he jabs and you can get stars. Get 3 and you can win 1 round. Note: when you use your 3rd star, make sure you use a combo as you are using your star punch or he will dodge it. If he dodges this punch, then he may make it to the 2nd round...
On SMm, as he pauses for either spin punch, punch to the head(you get a star), repeat(he blocks it), repeat(star), etc. You can get 2-3 stars that way each time he does that. To land the star punch without him dodging every time and after dodging his spin punch(es), hit him with a few punches and star him then. He will never dodge your star attempt--when you use it like that...
On Piston Honda 2, if you cannot get the belly punch down, you can still get him in Round 1. You can get stars on him right before he jabs, with a belly punch right before he does his twisting special uppercut, and when he pauses literally just like SMm! If he ever begins to dodge your star punches(a long time before he does if ever), simply use a combo before attempting it...
I like the idea of a difficulty rating of debunkable or not. I appreciated when in Ninja Gaiden you made a point to tell everyone that the game was truly hard. On that note, teabagging the boss should be the series logo.
yay I love these videos. Thank you for your hard work Ryu!
Dude I love these debunking vids. If I was gonna recommend a game for the list it would be something like desert strike, Titus the fox or sleepwalker on the Amiga, they were so hard. Also, I did some research, I’ve been subscribed to your main channel since 18th October 2017 and watched every single vid since then. That deserves a heart my man. Love you dude ❤
Scrap that….. Bart’s nightmare on the the snes… that game is an arse to try and beat!
11:43 to 11:48 is insane to come out of someone's mouth so rhythmically
Fun Fact. 2nd bald bull fight. Dodge bull rush once. When he resets he doesn't go back as far Then there is a longer delay between him being in reach and him throwing his punch.
L for playing Mr Dream Version instead of the Real Version with Tyson
Ryu Tyson is at it ❤
For Bald Bull 2,the signal to punch the bull-charge is the bearded man in the public on the center left who slightly move his head when you have to push the button to punch.
Really like the debunking series. It help me with some games :)
The tiger was a cape ahah (poor thing)! I wasn't aware that Ryu started this serie, this is awesome!
Loved the video, man! Consider Hagane for either Debunking the difficulty or Extraordinarily hard games. It's in the SNES, and it's AMAZING.
I didn't know Lil Mac actually kills his opponents I thought he just knocks them out lol
My friends and I had a rule playing punch out back in the day. You could play until you took damage either from blocking a punch or actually getting punched. When that happened game over its the other guys turn. All of us could make it to Tyson pretty regular taking zero damage in the process. We had WAY to much time on our hands to get that good.
How do u dodge great tiger's special? Ducking?
2nd Bald Bull fight, if you wait for the second charge it's WAY easier and more forgiving with the timing. He only does half the charge up.
When I was a kid I never knew the camera flash trick with Bald Bull, I always used the audio cues
So, when he charges forward during the bull rush, every step towards Mac makes a little "bew-dew" sound, if you punch at the 3rd "dew", you can reliably get him every time once you get used to timing it that way
For 2nd Don flamenco non expert strategy: dodge the first of his 3 straight punches then get 4 face punches in, then when he winds up for 2nd of 3 punches hit him in the stomach with your right hand to get a star. Then dodge the 3rd punch, hit 3 times and star punch. Then he does a left hook, dodge and punch his face a couple times then the cycle repeats. If you do it right you can get a few stars in before the taunting phase which will let you beat him in round 1
You're right, Von Kaiser and Don Flamenco can both be chained to death after an uppercut.
With King Hippo, if you get yourself tired on him, he'll do three big punches, but you'll recover after the second. So on the third punch after getting yourself tired you can head shot him easily.
With Soda Popinski, you can keep blocking, and if you're blocking while he goes for an uppercut he'll freeze. Hit him in the gut, get a star, then stun him and uppercut and he goes down instantly, but this only works twice in the entire fight. Still, as Doc Lewis says, "Keep your guard up"
You CAN get their health low before the next round, but if you go ahead and knock them down, they'll keep getting up with less health later on, and sometimes stay down. (Except for Don Flamenco 2 it seems)
On Bald Bull 2, the crowd cue changes. Second fight it's a bearded dude on the left who nods when he charges. (These crowd cues were only discovered recently, btw)
Once Mr. Sandman stops throwing jabs, you can just throw a head-shot which will trigger a counter-hook you can easily dodge, and then all you have to worry about are the uppercuts. When he just blocks and doesn't try to counter you, that's when he's about to throw uppercuts.
On Super Macho Man, there's a crowd cue when he's about to throw the single spin punch. A guy with shades on the right will lower his shades just as he's about to attack.
As for Tyson... I've never once been able to beat him. That one still haunts my dreams. No pun intended.
Good video! I was actually able to beat the game on emulator, but the people who tell you to play on a CRT are actually right, I ran into a brick wall against Mr. Sandman where I could not dodge his Dreamland Express until I checked my settings and optimized them to lower input lag a little.
I have a couple tips for some of the harder fights that may help:
1. Agains Piston Honda 2 and Super Macho man, you can get some cheeky hits/stars by pressing up and hitting them with a gut punch (especially useful when they're not attacking you and waiting). If Super Macho Man starts dodging your uppercuts, try to accumulate three stars since it resets his dodging ability.
2. To get more stars against Bald Bull, I find that delaying a jab a bit after dodging a hook or an uppercut helps. This lets you get more stars and knock him down quicker.
3. If you have trouble dodging the Dreamland Express on emulator, definitely check your settings and turn off vsync if it's on. It'll still be hard to dodge, but it can make a big difference.
4. When Mike Tyson does an uppercut, counter with the opposite arm to deal more damage (e.g. he uses his left arm, counter with your right punch).
Though as Ryu said, beating the later fights in this game is about just getting good at the game. There are many tricks to help, even in the later fights, but they won't substitute having solid fundamentals, knowing what to look for, and having good reaction times to apply everything. But if you can stick through the challenge, is a very rewarding game to master.
For a long time I couldn't get past Soda Popinski
Rambo and faxanadu were the two games that really pissed me off as a kid. Finally went back and beat blaster master as an adult. That one is a gem.
I don't remember ever getting to Sandman. The second bald bull always wrecked me. Fun video. I need to buy an NES again.
Is Gradius III debunkable? I loved that game back in the day and enjoyed seeing you play it some. But, yeah, tough as nails on the highest difficulty. Bullet hell before it was a thing.
You should try super punch out. The bosses are rick and nick bruiser. Very hard
I agree! The game is really difficult . You have to have good reaction time, and a lot of time to learn everyones techniques and dodging times. I’ve spend a lot of time on this game through out the years.
"When his pants fall down, punch him in the stomach"
Words to live by.