I've had one of these installed for five or six months now. I flashed it with ESPHome because i want all local control when I can get it. It integrated perfectly with Home Assistant. Of course, i can't vouch for the original firmware, but with ESPHome it has remained rock steady in the network. I've created scripts to monitor and report when major appliances are running and monitor average power consumption. I've created alarms to report when consumption is outside of the baseline -- the theory is that i could catch appliances going bad if, for instance, my refrigerator or water heater suddenly started using more power than average. In January a few years ago my heat pump was failing and I didn't notice it until the electric bill arrived $400 more than normal. With this (and the ecobee i have now), I would have caught the issue immediately.
Does this ESPHome allow for all the same recording capability long term as the cloud based storage? How much storage will it require on the phone or wherever it maintains the data?
I have had mine for almost 3 years without issue. The main reason for installing it was to monitor my portable generator when connected to the panel via an interlock. I can tell not only the real-time load on my generator but just as important I can make sure both of the 120v legs are as balanced as possible. I also have it monitoring my septic effluent pump. When the wattage rises above normal I can tell the effluent filter is getting clogged and when the wattage drops off below normal it means the intake screen on the pump is getting clogged. It has been a great tool for me.
I have two Emporia Gen 2 Vue units, one for the main panel and one for the sub panel. In the App, you can identify that one of the units is for a sub panel so that the currents don't get double-counted. Then the subpanel data is properly shown as nested under within the main panel information. In the main panel, I use two of the branch circuits to monitor currents into my interlocked 30-amp emergency generator breaker. [Two sensors so that each generator leg can be individually monitored for load balance.] For such a generator setup, just be sure that the "flow arrow" on the sensor body is pointing toward the breaker. [This works for a solar AC input as well]. For normal branch circuits, the flow arrow must point away from the branch ckt bkr. As Scott mentioned, most other 240 volt loads can be monitored by one current sensor; you just tell the App whether you are using one or two sensors and it does the appropriate math. Oh yeah, NO SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED!
you touched on my main question. If I want to eventually expand beyond 16 sensors, their software can utilize 2 units and give you an overall view? is it really that seamless?
Yes.. It's that simple... I am monitoring 26 branch ckts... 16 in main panel and 10 in subpanel... If youvtell app it's a subpanel it is smart enough to not double count the subpanel load in the total load calc... Alternately, if you had a 400 amp service feeding two 200-amp main panels, app would add the loads...
I’ve had 2 of these since Nov 2022, a year and a half now, one the main panel, and one in the sub panel, I also broke it down further using wall plugs, and it hasn’t had any glitches or disconnects with the wifi. It’s pretty much plug and play. I recommend it.
We installed a 25 mW per year ground based solar system eight years ago. We have 3 air-conditioning units that can run 24x7 when needed at no cost. Since we installed the solar system 8 years ago we have paid ZERO dollars to the utility company. The solar system paid for itself in four years. It was my best investment ever and highly recommend solar. Now with very excessive temperatures we are glad we did this. The electronics to the solar generation provides minute by minute generation details but we don't look at it anymore.
I wonder if ground solar systems are just restricted by the town codes or if people don't have yards suitable for them, but I've never seen any in my area. I would have liked to put something like a car port type installation of solar panels like they have in sine public parking lots and schools, but I'm guessing it's just not allowed or something.
I've had mine installed for a couple of months. I originally set it up to monitor the six circuits that run through my transfer switch to monitor usage on my home backup Ecoflow Delta Pro. Then added more current clamps for my EV charger and a couple other high usage circuits.
Way to go Scott! Big POWER If you're having issues with wifi connectivity after you put the panel cover back on, try getting the antenna outside of the metal box. You'll have a much stronger signal that can reach much further. Also a lot of homes use polyiso (foil faced foam board) as insulation, the foil layers do a great job blocking wifi signals - to get around that you'll either need wifi extenders or arrange the devices within 'line of sight' which could go through drywall and wood doors, but not metal or foil board.
The antenna is designed so that you open up a knockout on the bottom of the box, stick the antenna through and then it is hanging below the box and able to broadcast through the sheetrock.
Exactly, Scott's commented at the beginning of the video is wrong, even if it is inside the wall you want the antenna to poke OUT of the metal box, wifi will go through drywall and wood so the antenna sticking out inside the wall will be VASTLY better
I have one of these things that I put in back in April. For me, it has been pretty solid. Honestly the 1st takeaway was that some of the things in the panel box were labeled incorrectly, so that's kind of the first thing to identify any mistakes. In my case, I used up 12 of the 16 sensors on 240V circuits, that left me with just 4 for 120V circuits, and that was inadequate. But I also discovered that one of the incorrectly labeled 240V circuits was apparently no longer in use (Old Range - what's that??), so I could reclaim that and then I could monitor 5 120V circuits. But one can also supplement with an Emporia Smart Plug, which integrates into the app almost like it is yet another sensor. I bought a box of 4 of the things, and that helped out a lot. Note that these things can only be used in cases where there is something plugged into a wall socket - a circuit for a hardwired device like a dishwasher can't really be monitored in this fashion. And from the app, you can turn on/off the smart plug and/or set up a schedule for when the things get turned on/off. In the Emporia app, the smart plugs can be nested underneath a Vue circuit. So you can measure the overall circuit from the Vue sensor, and the subset of that circuit from the Smart Plug. If you nest things incorrectly, you get really wonky results however.
@@Russianmafia10 I realize that - we had 11 different 240V circuits. Two heat pumps, two air handlers, solar, irrigation pump, hot water, oven, cooktop, EV charger, and dryer.
Hey Scott, thanks for making this video! I've had an emporia vue sitting on my shelf for a few months now and your video gives me a little more confidence to finally get this installed.
I think you're going to have problems with WIFI with that unit installed Inside the breaker box once you close it up. Might consider running conduit to an external box to house the receiver/transmitter unit and also tidy up all those wires. Just a thought. Nice product. Great presentation.
For individual monitoring use something like TPLink outlets (make sure they are the energy monitoring ones) so you can view usage remotely plus has historical usage. They cost about the same as that Amazon one mentioned.
Also if you are doing your own software or using open source stuff, the TPLink Kasa brand (not Tapo or Matter) can be accessed directly on your local network instead of via the cloud.
@@BenCos2018 Do you mean matter devices would be accessible directly on my local network? Where would I plug this dongle and what is it accomplishing? And this is "in theory" so yet to be confirmed in actual practice.
Emporia has a "Smart Plug" product to allow monitoring anything connected to a single wall outlet. This is less costly way to start monitoring, and ideal for Apartment or home renters (without ready access to add the Breaker Panel system shown here) Emporia Smart Plugs use the same free cloud service and apps, (you buy and own the Smart Plugs) Will require a home WiFi connection, as was the case for this Breaker Panel install.
You can monitor multiple branch circuits in one sensor (of course the wires have to be aligned somewhere in the box), but they either have to all be on the same leg, or if they are on opposite legs then the wires have to go through the sensor in opposite directions.
Unlike other (red) energy monitors, you can have more than one Emporia Vue on one account, so you can add on on a sub panel, or if you have other properties, you can have it all in one dashboard. The red brand also does not do a good job with what its main claim to fame is. Since I have both (the red one was installed by the contractor who installed our Solar panels) the Emporia Vue (gen 2) is more reliable for finding what is using power where. I only wish they had a 24 port or greater unit, but since you can have more than one on an account, I guess it does’t matter. The other problem is, it can only monitor up to 50 amp circuits, my HVAC system uses three 60 amp circuits. In order to monitor those, I have separate Shelly EM units that can monitor up to two 120 amp circuits each. All these tie into my Home Assistant system where I can see all the data on one dashboard.
Wow, your panel has so much room inside. I'm thinking I need to replace my panel (probably add another sub-panel and relocate circuits). Also you might consider punching a hole thru the side of your panel so you can get the antenna outside the metal box.
Question: I’d like to use this to figure out what size battery backup I’ll need. Would it be as easy as checking the usage for devices I want the battery to run, and then using the kilowatts to figure out how many hours of backup the battery will provide? Or is there a better method? Thanks for the video!
I use the ShellyEM for monitoring the main feeds, although when i first added them putting pressure on the incoming mains wires caused the breaker they connected to to crack as it was a tight fit (mobile home so mains went directly to the breaker and the breaker fed the panel) for better signal i mounted a box to the breaker panel and installed the ShellyEM in the plastic outlet box with a blanking plate instead of the panel. Also i have a separate 2.4ghz network for IOT devices as many have issues on dual band 2.4/5ghz networks with the same SSID.
The App also has customizable notifications to detect odd situations, like dryer or oven on for excessive time, high washing machine current draw, etc.
i want to know if these are useful or for personal interest. Since installing one of these, has it made an impact on how you use your power? Have you changed your habits or what is plugged in or turned on? Have you save $170 by installing one of these?
I say when figuring turn on EVERYTHING possible, and add your air conditioner AND furnace to the total. Obviously all those things will NEVER be on all at the same time and it comes to the philosophies of more than you need than not enough. It's always better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. So then maybe even double up the final numbers after you've added all those numbers up.
In the instruction manual they show that being done but they didn't seem to point out that the pigtailed wire going to the breaker needs to be the same gauge as the existing wire that was removed. It showed what looked like the same gauge wire as the sensor wire being connected to the breaker, which would act like a fuse 😎
There's always been a "Home Energy Monitor" on my home since about 1940, when the REA got the local power company to install electric power to our farmhouse in New Hampshire. It's called a watt-hour meter, and every month someone from the power company would read it and that information would be used to calculate our bill for the period. I remember being taught how to read the instruments when we were in grade school during the War - I don't remember any of my school mates ever having difficulty reading the meters.
Regarding wire management, can I zip tie all the excess wires to the main line to hold them in place or will that interfere with the signals being sent from the CT's. Thanks!
Coincidently my Vue arrived yesterday. What I'm curious is how to deal with sub panels. I have a separate panel for my basement and was planning on having a second vue unit there and nest it somehow under the main panel.
I just placed a circuit sensor on each phase feeding the sub panel. Right now with only 2 circuits this is perfectly fine but once I add any more I would start to lose visibility to each circuit in the sub panel.
I just recently purchased and installed the Emporia level 2 EV charger and I'd like to utilize the load management feature on the app. We use our air conditioning at night during the summer, and the EV will be charging at night so it would be great if the ev charger would turn off when the AC runs. My question is, is the Gen 2 Vue the additional unit needed to utilize that feature?
I think for the time being I'll use the extra $200 for electricity bill. The price point is too steep at least at this point. Thanks for making the video!
My instructions said black on one side breaker and red wire to another breaker to power the unit and the blue and white to ground for a 200 amp service.
Just did a bench test of the Emporia Vue 2 app after coming from the Eyedrop 2 monitor, and I have to say the graphing user interface seems really crude compared to the Eyedro, unless I'm missing something. It doesn't let you dynamically zoom in and out on the chart details, but has separate tabs only for seconds minutes hours etc. Is this really how everyone reads the information? Certainly some aspects of it is very much an improvement like having all the separate subcircuit monitoring and notification capability, but the graphing implementation really looks completely simplistic in comparison to the Eyedro.
I found that the app has a faster speed scrolling capability which makes it a bit more usable, by using two fingers to swipe scroll. A single finger is just regular speed scrolling. Still not going to want to use the app to scroll back a very long time as there's no calendar selection capability, but it looks okay for most review purposes. If you really need detailed review of long past records, download it for separate spreadsheet charting.
That’s a good price for the system. I was thinking of doing a DIY with a raspberry pi and some current transformers, but for that price, it’s tempting. Only thing that concerns me is how long this company will be in business. If the company goes belly up, does the system stop working? At least with the RPI you own the data and aren’t beholden to someone else’s cloud.
Will the emporia vue work on 100amp double breakers? my panel has 2-100amp line running to the double breaker. Emoria vue says monitors are 50AMP rated.
I wonder if there will be a day were the NEC changes to have electrical wire terminates with a connector. So that a homeowner can swap out components just with a quick connect.
It is UL Listed as energy monitoring equipment. FCC Certified, too. The UL file is linked on their website and can be looked up on UL's website to a matching product, so it is legit.
Hello greetings from Panama, im looking for a monitor like this, however im a bit confused with the installation, The amazon video says white and blue goes to neutral and black and red goes to a 15A breaker, what is the correct method?
I'm wishing we went with an Emporium instead of a Sense. It does decent enough tracking my total power consumption but I'm going on nearly 6 month of use with it now and its only identified maybe 20 devices in my home.
That's actually why I opted for the Vue over the Sense. The concept was cool, but it seemed like a roll of the dice as to whether it would be able to identify devices.
I read that the second by second recording resolution is only available for a few hours and permanent long term recording is minute by minute, is that similar for both systems?
On my Eyedrop 2 monitor, it maintains the second to second readings in the permanent data, which is helpful in seeing transients on startup, which helps identify things.
Neat device. Can I track it through my wifi network if I'm away from the house? Do you have to pay a monthly subscription? It would be neat to be able to have a similar device set to track water usage.
These gloves from Klein Tools I think only call out they are ANSI A2 cut resistant amzn.to/3GEJ4Kb I don't see they actually call out the electrical rating/specs.
If your 400 anp service entrance actually consists of two 200 amp service panels (very common), then you can install an Emporia unit in each panel and "sum" the in the App.
Does your small portable energy-use meter reset to zero when the power goes out, or does it "remember" energy use by the appliance? I did a several year study of PV energy production, and energy use (including specific appliance usage), at my home. I used 8 or so Kill-O-Watt meters and got many data gaps because those meter reset to zero every time the grid blinks off or goes down for extended times. That was frustrating.
Individual meters store their data locally and aren't designed to send it out for logging. I don't have experience with this system but given that it's transmitting usage and making it available in an app, a power loss would only affect the lowest slice of time it records locally before transmitting, if that makes sense. Say they transmit usage data in 5m increments rather than real time, if you lost power at the begging of a 5m slice you wouldn't lose anything but the maximum data you would lose is 5m if you lost power right before transmission. Again, no experience with this brand but I have designed systems that log sensor data.
There are plug in energy monitors that have battery backup so they don't lose the accumulated kW-hour value if power drops out momentarily, which is the problem with the kill-a-watt meters. I have one on order from Temu so I'll see how it compares, at the $12.78 price point.
Can the entire unit and antenna be mounted on the wall outside the breaker panel and have the sensor wires go through one ( or two ) of the cutouts on the side of the panel ?
I would only consider this an option for an interior panel unless you install another weatherproof unit/box to install this unit into next to an exterior panel to protect it.
You don't need to be on the Wi-Fi network to access the information, the only thing I've encountered with that limitation is a Riden WiFi power supply.
For that you can get a Govee Wi-Fi temperature humidity monitor, which will send you a text alert if the temperature excess a threshold that you select. Excellent reliability from my experience, and if you get a Bluetooth model, it can serve duty during blackouts so you know when to fire up the generator to keep the fridge temperature maintained without opening it.
It can share with the breaker's existing load...current draw is tiny... These two sense lines monitor the two leg voltages for more accurate power calculations.
Doesn't look like it's possible to export the data into something like a larger smart home system, like Home Assistant. If you could it would be an easy buy for me.
I am getting an error that says We Have Detected 3 200A Sensors and 2 Valid Voltages? Does anyone know why this is occurring. I do have only 2 - 200 Amp sensors on both main phases and I have the power split to the unit between two adjacent breakers. It is showing I have 3 phases instead of 2 and this is causing 33% more wattage, amps etc. Thanks for your input.
Do all unit options have three ports on them for the 200A CT sensors, with the unused ones just plugged? Or are the 3 phase units different, having an additional port?
I've had Emporias in all my rental houses for several years. To be honest, I find them frustrating to set up and not that useful once they are set up. - They use an older wifi protocol, so the range is very short and connectivity is sometimes spotty. - Being limited to only 16 circuits really sucks as it means you either need to do a lot of tweaking which circuits you monitor or you just need to accept not being able to monitor many of them. - As you point out in this video- the setup is also extremely bulky and takes up a lot of room in the electrical panel. It seems like there must be a way to make probes and wires that are thinner than what Emporia is using. After all- these are just using induction to monitor the current- seems like they wouldn't need to be thick wires. - The app feels like it was half-finished and abandoned. Haven't seen any updates to it in years. In general, I feel the state of "smart" home monitoring appliances is still quite poor. Every application has different companies servicing the need (thermostats, sprinklers, energy monitor, water monitor) and they are all in incompatible apps.
@@wojtek-33Emporia uses 802.11g for wifi. This protocol was approved in the year 2000. It does not support n, ac, ax, or be- which represents the last twenty years of wifi advancement. The app makes it difficult to see your data or do anything useful with it (like look for patterns or spikes). It’s a mediocre product but it has no competition so it’s the best we’ve got.
@@SongOfStorms411I've been using an Eyedro 2 system for a fairly long time now and haven't had any issues with it, but just started looking for another one to install in another house, and found out about this one, with the multiple sub circuit monitoring which the Eyedro didn't have, only the two phases. Even so, I was able to resolve what I needed based on the timing. I'm hoping this will be as good on reliability and resolution with the extra bonus of sub circuit monitoring capability.
Don’t buy one then? A Ferrari isn’t feasible to my pocket book either. I don’t understand why retirees complain about not being able to afford things “on a fixed income”. You can’t buy it? Tough! Plenty of things that the younger generation can’t afford either, on variable incomes, with one of the most difficult economies in history!
Those are not "Hall Effect Sensors". They are current sensing coils. Also, are you in Canada? If so, you have broken a bunch of laws on this video. You needed a permit to work on your panel. You need a hydro inspector to pass your work. You also should note to people that you are not an Electrician.
@@damianhendricks818 depends where you live. In Ontario, you don't touch the panel. Qualified Electrician Only. As a home owner you are allowed to work on your own home, as long as you have a DIY permit and planned inspection on finish.
@@damianhendricks818 Canadians get a bunch of their power from hydroelectric sources, and tend to call their power company the "hydro" company. E.g. "BC Hydro and Power"
Um, the government can already monitor your usage through the meter that the utility company has installed on your house. And doing so in that manner would be far, far simpler.
I bought a Sense meter and it's not great, so I'm going to try the Emporia Vue. I'm hoping that two Vue's will work together to provide 32 channels. I have solar and a backup battery system so I want to identify power draws when I'm running on battery (e.g. during thunderstorms) and maximize my off-grid time. Right now the house can be drawing 1-2KW and the Sense meter isn't giving me enough detail about where that's all going.
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I've had one of these installed for five or six months now. I flashed it with ESPHome because i want all local control when I can get it. It integrated perfectly with Home Assistant. Of course, i can't vouch for the original firmware, but with ESPHome it has remained rock steady in the network. I've created scripts to monitor and report when major appliances are running and monitor average power consumption. I've created alarms to report when consumption is outside of the baseline -- the theory is that i could catch appliances going bad if, for instance, my refrigerator or water heater suddenly started using more power than average. In January a few years ago my heat pump was failing and I didn't notice it until the electric bill arrived $400 more than normal. With this (and the ecobee i have now), I would have caught the issue immediately.
I have been considering doing the same with mine. The Emporia system has been very solid, but I do not want to rely on cloud services.
Can you link to instructions for flashing with ESPHome?
Does this ESPHome allow for all the same recording capability long term as the cloud based storage? How much storage will it require on the phone or wherever it maintains the data?
About 30MB is uploaded to the cloud daily for the data records according to their website
I have had mine for almost 3 years without issue. The main reason for installing it was to monitor my portable generator when connected to the panel via an interlock. I can tell not only the real-time load on my generator but just as important I can make sure both of the 120v legs are as balanced as possible. I also have it monitoring my septic effluent pump. When the wattage rises above normal I can tell the effluent filter is getting clogged and when the wattage drops off below normal it means the intake screen on the pump is getting clogged. It has been a great tool for me.
That's the same monitor I installed. I love being able to track usage on individual circuits. Makes it much easier to track down the power hogs.
I have two Emporia Gen 2 Vue units, one for the main panel and one for the sub panel. In the App, you can identify that one of the units is for a sub panel so that the currents don't get double-counted. Then the subpanel data is properly shown as nested under within the main panel information. In the main panel, I use two of the branch circuits to monitor currents into my interlocked 30-amp emergency generator breaker. [Two sensors so that each generator leg can be individually monitored for load balance.] For such a generator setup, just be sure that the "flow arrow" on the sensor body is pointing toward the breaker. [This works for a solar AC input as well]. For normal branch circuits, the flow arrow must point away from the branch ckt bkr. As Scott mentioned, most other 240 volt loads can be monitored by one current sensor; you just tell the App whether you are using one or two sensors and it does the appropriate math. Oh yeah, NO SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED!
you touched on my main question. If I want to eventually expand beyond 16 sensors, their software can utilize 2 units and give you an overall view? is it really that seamless?
Yes.. It's that simple... I am monitoring 26 branch ckts... 16 in main panel and 10 in subpanel... If youvtell app it's a subpanel it is smart enough to not double count the subpanel load in the total load calc... Alternately, if you had a 400 amp service feeding two 200-amp main panels, app would add the loads...
@@SteveJones172pilot I'm curious why the monitors for a generator are "backwards" when compared to the other circuits.
I’ve had 2 of these since Nov 2022, a year and a half now, one the main panel, and one in the sub panel, I also broke it down further using wall plugs, and it hasn’t had any glitches or disconnects with the wifi. It’s pretty much plug and play. I recommend it.
We installed a 25 mW per year ground based solar system eight years ago. We have 3 air-conditioning units that can run 24x7 when needed at no cost. Since we installed the solar system 8 years ago we have paid ZERO dollars to the utility company. The solar system paid for itself in four years. It was my best investment ever and highly recommend solar.
Now with very excessive temperatures we are glad we did this. The electronics to the solar generation provides minute by minute generation details but we don't look at it anymore.
Nice! What state did you guys install the ground mounted system?
I wonder if ground solar systems are just restricted by the town codes or if people don't have yards suitable for them, but I've never seen any in my area. I would have liked to put something like a car port type installation of solar panels like they have in sine public parking lots and schools, but I'm guessing it's just not allowed or something.
Is 25 mW 25 megawatts? It's obviously not milliwatts, but is it actually mega as in 25 million watts?
I've had mine installed for a couple of months. I originally set it up to monitor the six circuits that run through my transfer switch to monitor usage on my home backup Ecoflow Delta Pro. Then added more current clamps for my EV charger and a couple other high usage circuits.
Way to go Scott! Big POWER
If you're having issues with wifi connectivity after you put the panel cover back on, try getting the antenna outside of the metal box. You'll have a much stronger signal that can reach much further. Also a lot of homes use polyiso (foil faced foam board) as insulation, the foil layers do a great job blocking wifi signals - to get around that you'll either need wifi extenders or arrange the devices within 'line of sight' which could go through drywall and wood doors, but not metal or foil board.
The antenna base is designed to go through a panel knockout...
yep the antenna is best outside the panel tbh
otherwise it's pretty much in a faraday cage
The antenna is designed so that you open up a knockout on the bottom of the box, stick the antenna through and then it is hanging below the box and able to broadcast through the sheetrock.
Exactly, Scott's commented at the beginning of the video is wrong, even if it is inside the wall you want the antenna to poke OUT of the metal box, wifi will go through drywall and wood so the antenna sticking out inside the wall will be VASTLY better
I have one of these things that I put in back in April. For me, it has been pretty solid. Honestly the 1st takeaway was that some of the things in the panel box were labeled incorrectly, so that's kind of the first thing to identify any mistakes. In my case, I used up 12 of the 16 sensors on 240V circuits, that left me with just 4 for 120V circuits, and that was inadequate. But I also discovered that one of the incorrectly labeled 240V circuits was apparently no longer in use (Old Range - what's that??), so I could reclaim that and then I could monitor 5 120V circuits.
But one can also supplement with an Emporia Smart Plug, which integrates into the app almost like it is yet another sensor. I bought a box of 4 of the things, and that helped out a lot. Note that these things can only be used in cases where there is something plugged into a wall socket - a circuit for a hardwired device like a dishwasher can't really be monitored in this fashion. And from the app, you can turn on/off the smart plug and/or set up a schedule for when the things get turned on/off.
In the Emporia app, the smart plugs can be nested underneath a Vue circuit. So you can measure the overall circuit from the Vue sensor, and the subset of that circuit from the Smart Plug. If you nest things incorrectly, you get really wonky results however.
Btw on 240v circuits, you only need to use 1 sensor, and use a 2.00 multiplier in the app.
@@Russianmafia10 I realize that - we had 11 different 240V circuits. Two heat pumps, two air handlers, solar, irrigation pump, hot water, oven, cooktop, EV charger, and dryer.
Hey Scott, thanks for making this video! I've had an emporia vue sitting on my shelf for a few months now and your video gives me a little more confidence to finally get this installed.
I think you're going to have problems with WIFI with that unit installed Inside the breaker box once you close it up. Might consider running conduit to an external box to house the receiver/transmitter unit and also tidy up all those wires. Just a thought.
Nice product. Great presentation.
I got this same unit, have the wifi antenna poking out the bottom of the box but behind the drywall. Get great signal.
@@jasondixon1760 Good idea!
For individual monitoring use something like TPLink outlets (make sure they are the energy monitoring ones) so you can view usage remotely plus has historical usage. They cost about the same as that Amazon one mentioned.
Also if you are doing your own software or using open source stuff, the TPLink Kasa brand (not Tapo or Matter) can be accessed directly on your local network instead of via the cloud.
@@Sylvan_dB well matter in theory should be able to work in home assistant with a extra usb dongle
@@BenCos2018 Do you mean matter devices would be accessible directly on my local network? Where would I plug this dongle and what is it accomplishing? And this is "in theory" so yet to be confirmed in actual practice.
Emporia has a "Smart Plug" product to allow monitoring anything connected to a single wall outlet. This is less costly way to start monitoring, and ideal for Apartment or home renters (without ready access to add the Breaker Panel system shown here)
Emporia Smart Plugs use the same free cloud service and apps, (you buy and own the Smart Plugs) Will require a home WiFi connection, as was the case for this Breaker Panel install.
@@pstonardI would stay away from those currently.
www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/Emporia-Recalls-North-America-Smart-Plugs-Due-to-Electric-Shock-Hazard
You can monitor multiple branch circuits in one sensor (of course the wires have to be aligned somewhere in the box), but they either have to all be on the same leg, or if they are on opposite legs then the wires have to go through the sensor in opposite directions.
I did this with 3 branch circuits, all on same leg... Works great...
Unlike other (red) energy monitors, you can have more than one Emporia Vue on one account, so you can add on on a sub panel, or if you have other properties, you can have it all in one dashboard. The red brand also does not do a good job with what its main claim to fame is. Since I have both (the red one was installed by the contractor who installed our Solar panels) the Emporia Vue (gen 2) is more reliable for finding what is using power where.
I only wish they had a 24 port or greater unit, but since you can have more than one on an account, I guess it does’t matter. The other problem is, it can only monitor up to 50 amp circuits, my HVAC system uses three 60 amp circuits. In order to monitor those, I have separate Shelly EM units that can monitor up to two 120 amp circuits each. All these tie into my Home Assistant system where I can see all the data on one dashboard.
Wow, your panel has so much room inside. I'm thinking I need to replace my panel (probably add another sub-panel and relocate circuits).
Also you might consider punching a hole thru the side of your panel so you can get the antenna outside the metal box.
I have one of these in my panel and i love it. Being kind of a nerd, i like the info
Question: I’d like to use this to figure out what size battery backup I’ll need. Would it be as easy as checking the usage for devices I want the battery to run, and then using the kilowatts to figure out how many hours of backup the battery will provide? Or is there a better method? Thanks for the video!
Thanks a lot for such a nice video! looking forward for the additional information and the consumption spreadsheet example!!
I use the ShellyEM for monitoring the main feeds, although when i first added them putting pressure on the incoming mains wires caused the breaker they connected to to crack as it was a tight fit (mobile home so mains went directly to the breaker and the breaker fed the panel)
for better signal i mounted a box to the breaker panel and installed the ShellyEM in the plastic outlet box with a blanking plate instead of the panel.
Also i have a separate 2.4ghz network for IOT devices as many have issues on dual band 2.4/5ghz networks with the same SSID.
The App also has customizable notifications to detect odd situations, like dryer or oven on for excessive time, high washing machine current draw, etc.
Thank you for sharing. I am planning on installing a monitor and was not familiar with this brand.
i want to know if these are useful or for personal interest. Since installing one of these, has it made an impact on how you use your power? Have you changed your habits or what is plugged in or turned on? Have you save $170 by installing one of these?
The other day I got a notification that I had inadvertently left the oven on!
@@josephknapick5307guessing electric oven and not gas-
Very interesting. Although I might not use it but I will check the other video and that I might invest in. Thank you for sharing
I say when figuring turn on EVERYTHING possible, and add your air conditioner AND furnace to the total. Obviously all those things will NEVER be on all at the same time and it comes to the philosophies of more than you need than not enough. It's always better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. So then maybe even double up the final numbers after you've added all those numbers up.
Did you just pigtail the sensor power to existing breaker?
In the instruction manual they show that being done but they didn't seem to point out that the pigtailed wire going to the breaker needs to be the same gauge as the existing wire that was removed. It showed what looked like the same gauge wire as the sensor wire being connected to the breaker, which would act like a fuse 😎
@2:49: split single phase
There's always been a "Home Energy Monitor" on my home since about 1940, when the REA got the local power company to install electric power to our farmhouse in New Hampshire. It's called a watt-hour meter, and every month someone from the power company would read it and that information would be used to calculate our bill for the period. I remember being taught how to read the instruments when we were in grade school during the War - I don't remember any of my school mates ever having difficulty reading the meters.
Regarding wire management, can I zip tie all the excess wires to the main line to hold them in place or will that interfere with the signals being sent from the CT's. Thanks!
Coincidently my Vue arrived yesterday. What I'm curious is how to deal with sub panels. I have a separate panel for my basement and was planning on having a second vue unit there and nest it somehow under the main panel.
I just placed a circuit sensor on each phase feeding the sub panel. Right now with only 2 circuits this is perfectly fine but once I add any more I would start to lose visibility to each circuit in the sub panel.
I've had the Emporia Vue v1 in my electrical box for three years now. It's never glitched out or lost connection.
I just recently purchased and installed the Emporia level 2 EV charger and I'd like to utilize the load management feature on the app. We use our air conditioning at night during the summer, and the EV will be charging at night so it would be great if the ev charger would turn off when the AC runs. My question is, is the Gen 2 Vue the additional unit needed to utilize that feature?
Excellent video.
I think for the time being I'll use the extra $200 for electricity bill. The price point is too steep at least at this point. Thanks for making the video!
Amazing! Thank you for sharing
My instructions said black on one side breaker and red wire to another breaker to power the unit and the blue and white to ground for a 200 amp service.
Just did a bench test of the Emporia Vue 2 app after coming from the Eyedrop 2 monitor, and I have to say the graphing user interface seems really crude compared to the Eyedro, unless I'm missing something.
It doesn't let you dynamically zoom in and out on the chart details, but has separate tabs only for seconds minutes hours etc.
Is this really how everyone reads the information?
Certainly some aspects of it is very much an improvement like having all the separate subcircuit monitoring and notification capability, but the graphing implementation really looks completely simplistic in comparison to the Eyedro.
I found that the app has a faster speed scrolling capability which makes it a bit more usable, by using two fingers to swipe scroll. A single finger is just regular speed scrolling.
Still not going to want to use the app to scroll back a very long time as there's no calendar selection capability, but it looks okay for most review purposes. If you really need detailed review of long past records, download it for separate spreadsheet charting.
Can you track the voltage on each leg to see if there is variation from the incoming line?
That’s a good price for the system. I was thinking of doing a DIY with a raspberry pi and some current transformers, but for that price, it’s tempting. Only thing that concerns me is how long this company will be in business. If the company goes belly up, does the system stop working? At least with the RPI you own the data and aren’t beholden to someone else’s cloud.
The Vue gen 2 has an esp32 inside and can be flashed to ESPHome without too much hassle.
Flash with ESPHome as mentioned, so much better and dumps to Home Assistant easily.
Will the emporia vue work on 100amp double breakers? my panel has 2-100amp line running to the double breaker. Emoria vue says monitors are 50AMP rated.
I wonder if there will be a day were the NEC changes to have electrical wire terminates with a connector. So that a homeowner can swap out components just with a quick connect.
That's cool and new to me!!!❤
is the product UL Listed and does NEC Code allow install inside the enclosure? curious
It is UL Listed as energy monitoring equipment. FCC Certified, too. The UL file is linked on their website and can be looked up on UL's website to a matching product, so it is legit.
item can be ul listed but is it listed to sit in the enclosure?
@@LuLu_World while true, the instruction manual for this device states to place it in the enclosure, and the manual is part of the UL listing.
Can you please explain why you only need a single CT on a 240 circuit? Does it double automatically?
You set a 2X in the App for the 240V circuits when using the single CT. 👍
Hello greetings from Panama, im looking for a monitor like this, however im a bit confused with the installation, The amazon video says white and blue goes to neutral and black and red goes to a 15A breaker, what is the correct method?
I'm wishing we went with an Emporium instead of a Sense. It does decent enough tracking my total power consumption but I'm going on nearly 6 month of use with it now and its only identified maybe 20 devices in my home.
That's actually why I opted for the Vue over the Sense. The concept was cool, but it seemed like a roll of the dice as to whether it would be able to identify devices.
I read that the second by second recording resolution is only available for a few hours and permanent long term recording is minute by minute, is that similar for both systems?
On my Eyedrop 2 monitor, it maintains the second to second readings in the permanent data, which is helpful in seeing transients on startup, which helps identify things.
Neat device. Can I track it through my wifi network if I'm away from the house? Do you have to pay a monthly subscription? It would be neat to be able to have a similar device set to track water usage.
Yes, you can track remotely... And NO subscription...
Do you know if I could sync 3 of these on the same app??
Very interesting. Does this device require a cloud account? I hope not. That's a deal breaker for me.
No subscription, but it does talk to the internet.
What are those gloves you wore near the beginning of the video? Are the rated for 240 V ac work?
These gloves from Klein Tools I think only call out they are ANSI A2 cut resistant amzn.to/3GEJ4Kb I don't see they actually call out the electrical rating/specs.
Can we have an update on this system? How has your experience been?
Will this read a 400A service entrance or is it limited to 200A?
If your 400 anp service entrance actually consists of two 200 amp service panels (very common), then you can install an Emporia unit in each panel and "sum" the in the App.
@@josephknapick5307 Ya I was hoping to not have to buy 2.
Does your small portable energy-use meter reset to zero when the power goes out, or does it "remember" energy use by the appliance? I did a several year study of PV energy production, and energy use (including specific appliance usage), at my home. I used 8 or so Kill-O-Watt meters and got many data gaps because those meter reset to zero every time the grid blinks off or goes down for extended times. That was frustrating.
Individual meters store their data locally and aren't designed to send it out for logging.
I don't have experience with this system but given that it's transmitting usage and making it available in an app, a power loss would only affect the lowest slice of time it records locally before transmitting, if that makes sense. Say they transmit usage data in 5m increments rather than real time, if you lost power at the begging of a 5m slice you wouldn't lose anything but the maximum data you would lose is 5m if you lost power right before transmission.
Again, no experience with this brand but I have designed systems that log sensor data.
There are plug in energy monitors that have battery backup so they don't lose the accumulated kW-hour value if power drops out momentarily, which is the problem with the kill-a-watt meters.
I have one on order from Temu so I'll see how it compares, at the $12.78 price point.
How does the wifi signal get through the breaker box?
Can the entire unit and antenna be mounted on the wall outside the breaker panel and have the sensor wires go through one ( or two ) of the cutouts on the side of the panel ?
Yes, just make sure to use a wire grommet to protect the wires touching the sharp metal.
I would only consider this an option for an interior panel unless you install another weatherproof unit/box to install this unit into next to an exterior panel to protect it.
Can be monitored remotely, outside the wi-fi?
You don't need to be on the Wi-Fi network to access the information, the only thing I've encountered with that limitation is a Riden WiFi power supply.
Can I catch when a breaker is tripped?
How do you set the 240v timing it by 2.
Does this give you notifications when a device turns off like a refrigerator so you don’t lose your food?
For that you can get a Govee Wi-Fi temperature humidity monitor, which will send you a text alert if the temperature excess a threshold that you select. Excellent reliability from my experience, and if you get a Bluetooth model, it can serve duty during blackouts so you know when to fire up the generator to keep the fridge temperature maintained without opening it.
Does that thing really need 15A all on it's own tho? That seems a bit excessive...
No. Have you tried finding a panel listed breaker smaller than 15 amp?
It can share with the breaker's existing load...current draw is tiny... These two sense lines monitor the two leg voltages for more accurate power calculations.
how long it normally it takes to install the system
Doesn't look like it's possible to export the data into something like a larger smart home system, like Home Assistant. If you could it would be an easy buy for me.
👍👍
installing in a grounded metal box will probably limit the range of the RF.
I am getting an error that says We Have Detected 3 200A Sensors and 2 Valid Voltages? Does anyone know why this is occurring. I do have only 2 - 200 Amp sensors on both main phases and I have the power split to the unit between two adjacent breakers. It is showing I have 3 phases instead of 2 and this is causing 33% more wattage, amps etc. Thanks for your input.
Do all unit options have three ports on them for the 200A CT sensors, with the unused ones just plugged? Or are the 3 phase units different, having an additional port?
What's your commission on the wago lever nuts? I feel like that's all you talk about in your videos anymore.
My sensor has gone offline and can’t get it back online
What gloves are you wearing?
I've had Emporias in all my rental houses for several years. To be honest, I find them frustrating to set up and not that useful once they are set up.
- They use an older wifi protocol, so the range is very short and connectivity is sometimes spotty.
- Being limited to only 16 circuits really sucks as it means you either need to do a lot of tweaking which circuits you monitor or you just need to accept not being able to monitor many of them.
- As you point out in this video- the setup is also extremely bulky and takes up a lot of room in the electrical panel. It seems like there must be a way to make probes and wires that are thinner than what Emporia is using. After all- these are just using induction to monitor the current- seems like they wouldn't need to be thick wires.
- The app feels like it was half-finished and abandoned. Haven't seen any updates to it in years.
In general, I feel the state of "smart" home monitoring appliances is still quite poor. Every application has different companies servicing the need (thermostats, sprinklers, energy monitor, water monitor) and they are all in incompatible apps.
@@wojtek-33Emporia uses 802.11g for wifi. This protocol was approved in the year 2000. It does not support n, ac, ax, or be- which represents the last twenty years of wifi advancement. The app makes it difficult to see your data or do anything useful with it (like look for patterns or spikes). It’s a mediocre product but it has no competition so it’s the best we’ve got.
@@SongOfStorms411I've been using an Eyedro 2 system for a fairly long time now and haven't had any issues with it, but just started looking for another one to install in another house, and found out about this one, with the multiple sub circuit monitoring which the Eyedro didn't have, only the two phases. Even so, I was able to resolve what I needed based on the timing.
I'm hoping this will be as good on reliability and resolution with the extra bonus of sub circuit monitoring capability.
This doesn’t look like something I can do.
😂😂😂
The Sense home energy monitor is a better option.
For someone that’s retired with a fixed income these gadgets are not feasible to the pocket books.
Don’t buy one then? A Ferrari isn’t feasible to my pocket book either. I don’t understand why retirees complain about not being able to afford things “on a fixed income”. You can’t buy it? Tough! Plenty of things that the younger generation can’t afford either, on variable incomes, with one of the most difficult economies in history!
DOES IT WORKS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES " THE APP"
Those are not "Hall Effect Sensors". They are current sensing coils. Also, are you in Canada? If so, you have broken a bunch of laws on this video. You needed a permit to work on your panel. You need a hydro inspector to pass your work. You also should note to people that you are not an Electrician.
😂 you don't need a permit to work on your own panel.
@@damianhendricks818 depends where you live. In Ontario, you don't touch the panel. Qualified Electrician Only. As a home owner you are allowed to work on your own home, as long as you have a DIY permit and planned inspection on finish.
He's in Illinois, and mentions that often in other videos. Also not sure why one would need a water inspector to pass the work. 🤔
@@damianhendricks818 Canadians get a bunch of their power from hydroelectric sources, and tend to call their power company the "hydro" company. E.g. "BC Hydro and Power"
@@samjones1954sounds like a bunch of communists in Canada. I'm glad I'm in the USA...
Are you serious. ???
You complicate your electrical panel for a app you will probably use only twice in your life.
Making it easier for the government to monitor your usage, ie CARBON FOOTPRINT?? No thanks
Um, the government can already monitor your usage through the meter that the utility company has installed on your house. And doing so in that manner would be far, far simpler.
@@DavidBugea Ummm puppet!!
@@searchingforaway8494 Hahahahahahahaha
I bought a Sense meter and it's not great, so I'm going to try the Emporia Vue. I'm hoping that two Vue's will work together to provide 32 channels. I have solar and a backup battery system so I want to identify power draws when I'm running on battery (e.g. during thunderstorms) and maximize my off-grid time. Right now the house can be drawing 1-2KW and the Sense meter isn't giving me enough detail about where that's all going.