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I've done many fence posts with fast setting concrete and used a 3/8" rebar 3 to 4' long to push holes through the concrete powder and you will see the water disappear in these small holes all the way down. Works great.
My dad and I used to install posts for our neighbors and friends to help out around the farms in the area. You can avoid wheelbarrows and a lot of mixing by doing exactly what you did, but putting in 1/3 of the bag, pouring 1/3 water, then more powder, then water, and so forth in 3 or 4 increments. You don't need to stir or mix, but by adding the water at certain levels, it soaks in up and down and the whole thing sets. Never had a post fail due to concrete.
Kind of obvious that's the way it should be done. I've set at least two hundred posts around my prop. and that's what I did. Not sure why this guy missed that rather obvious and simply solution.
alternatevely, you pour some water into the hole, fill with 1/4 or 1/3 quickcrete, mix & repeat. Never hurts to drive a few galvanized nails/screws into post to prevent movement. Been doing it for decades in highly reactive soil & posts are solid as Day 1.
Same method here, and I put in quite a few mailbox posts as a handyman. I do also use the ground breaking rod to roughly mix or push any air pockets out of the mix, but only a few times as the mix sets up very quickly.
Ex fence builder here. We used to have a garden hose handy to spray water into the hole while pouring in the concrete at the same time. The concrete will also draw ground moisture as well. Also, we eliminated the need to stake the post by just holding the post close to plumb while dumping in the concrete, and then bumping it into level after the concrete was in the hole. As long as the post wasn't bumped afterwards, we never had an issue.
I was gonna say (as a concrete guy), to add some water to the hole before dumping the dry mix in. Get things hydrated, but for a mail box, whatever should work fine
I love watching videos where people dig a hole and the ground is gorgeous black dirt instead of clay and rocks and roots like all of the places I've lived across the USA.
I live in Greenacres, Washington. We have a half inch of topsoil over rocks. The whole of Spokane Valley used to be the bottom of a river and the ground is these rounded granite rocks with sand and clay filling up the gaps between them. Digging post hole is always a bear, because you get a foot down and suddenly hit granite and when you finally get the whole rock out, it's the size of a car tire. Your hole is at your depth (even a few inches too deep), but it's now three or four feet in diameter. Up on the prairies around the valley, though, the topsoil is six to ten feet deep. Digging in my grandpa's garden always left my brother, cousins, and I covered in black dirt.
Scott is just awesome. I'm a building mechanic here in Connecticut and I do electrical, plumbing, and carpentry. Even though I've been doing this work for 30 years, I love to watch these videos because I'm always learning something new. Scott always does things the right way and will go into detail on how things are done. You're never too old to learn things!
In college for landscape design, we were taught to fill the hole halfway with water, then add the concrete mix(because it would be a wet mix) then finish off the hole. then smooth out the concrete always sloping it away from the post (there was no flex seal in the 80's). Great video, by the way. Your videos are always so clear and informative. Good job!
This was the way I was taught as well .. pre-fill the hole part way and then add the post hole mix and then adding any water on top. takes longer to cure but all of the concrete is wet.
I did fence work a lot. Never liked the quick set stuff. 3+ ft hole.. bit of gravel.. 2 bags of mixed Crete per hole.. 30+yrs later.. still like new. There is always a good way.. a better way and overkill. I think 30 yrs is long enough.
Im own a landscape design and construction business since 1999 - 4 hours to set…over here in the U.K. our fast set takes 10 minutes, and you add water, 50% of the bag, water, then the rest of the bag. My top tip is use oak posts they’ll last on average 40 years, in fact I’ve just taken an 8 inch oak post out the was 250 years old that was secured by rammed rocks.
I've always dug a 36" hole, add 6" gravel, level post. Always premix concrete and pour into hole. I bring it slightly above grade and bevel it away from post. Never had a issue and still strong at 30yrs. Take Care
Actually the way you did it was correct. It drains well and keeps moisture away from going down the post. Only thing I would add is soak the post in used motor oil first.
I agree with this 100%. I'm going to repeat what you said! There is no reason to put organic material (dirt) around your post. This traps water and bacteria. Keep the post dry and sealed. To do this, seal the lumber, starting with end-grain, up to about 6" above the yard level with some oil based product, Henry's, (or similar). at bottom of hole, below end-grain, leave 6" gravel. Set post. Then mix actual concrete in a wheel barrow. Pour it in all the way up to a couple inches above grass. Bevel it away from post. Again, the top of the concrete pour is an inch or two proud of the grass, and the Henry's (or similar) is a few inches proud of the concrete. Now you can go so far as to seal the top of the concrete. Lastly, PT posts are of inconsistent quality. Coat them with Penofin or similar. If the fence boards need replacing down the line, no biggie. But redoing the posts, is work.
@@johnlux6905 thank you for this explanation and step by step process! I’ll be replacing my mailbox with post this weekend so this is helpful. Can I ask what the purpose of the oil is? To keep moisture away? Either way I’ll do as you say lol
My frost line is around six inches. I have pulled up 4x4 post where it was “dry set” by layering in about ten inches at a time with water on top and repeated until the hole pour is toppled off. Twenty years later I have had to remove some of these, during renovation projects, using the same method with a “HyLift” jack. They have all been perfect.
9:27 ah ha!! As I suspected as well. When we did the 27 fence posts, we took a 3’ piece of rebar and jabbed down into the mix to get the water to get all the way down to the bottom. Worked quite well too. But I appreciate your video showing the dry cement in the bottom.
This. Don't just dump water on your dry mix. Dry set your posts, plumb them up, then add your water and drive your piece of rebar into the mix and add more water. Easier than premixing before putting in the hole
Hold the concrete and use the pill end of your bar to pound the earth back around your post. Rammed earth is very strong. Now you don’t have a high energy concrete 😊turd to jack out of the ground when the PT post inevitably fails.
I've removed several rotted posts over the years so I appreciate you mentioning sealing the posts. I use roofing tar/cement on the part of the post that goes into the ground up to about 6 inches above ground. I've been doing this for several years and posts are holding up. Also, I noticed when I removed old posts there were several where the cement was still powder several years after they had been placed. I assumed it was due to pouring the concrete in and then adding water. Because of this I've always mixed the concrete up in a wheel barrel and placed it around the posts.
Growing up, my grandfather would always dip the ends of posts in used motor oil to seal them. He told me that if it starts to rot anywhere, it will begin at the endgrain because it’s like straws for the wood. I typically paint the ends instead of motor oil, but something else to think about
I use melted wax, like when I store my wood to dry out, but same same. I suppose any petroleum or latex product would suffice for the same results. Paint, deck sealer, oil etc...
I pre diped the end post in wood preservatives for minimum of 24 hours ( 1 week is the best). Now you know that the wood is no longer going to absorb moisture. Yes, even the wood is already pressure preservative treated from the lumber manufacturer. This prevents water draws upward from the ground. Then use a thin layer of roofing cement coated the 4x4 ends before pour concrete. Expect 35 + years on each post.
The Flex Seal tip is absolutely great! I will definitely be doing that next time I set a post. As for the Quickcrete that was still powder, over time that dry powder will eventually draw moisture from the soil around it which will solidify the rest of the concrete. That said, it's best to fill the hole half way, then add a half gallon of water. Then fill the hole and add the other half gallon. I've done that several times in the past.
Thank you for the clear, concise narration. It is obvious you took time to plan out all the details you shared, and the extra effort showing the end results of the foam and concrete is appreciated.
This was something I have wondered about forever. I have seen people pour water into the hole and thought this may happen and with your video it proved the point. I still mix mine in a mixer then pour into the hole and glad I've done all of mine that way. Thank you!
Great video! My uncle helped me put up a new fence (steel posts) a couple of years ago, and the method we used for the concrete was a bit different. Rather than dumping the entire bag of concrete into the hole and then pouring the water on top, we dumped half the bag of concrete, then half the water, and then used a long bar to push down into the sludge a few times to create some holes for the water. Added more concrete, then more water, and repeated the process.
Two things. Pouring dry concrete on top of your gravel will just give you very gravelly concrete at the bottom of the hole. It will not give you the drainage you're looking for. Also, the concrete at the bottom of the hole, that was still dry after a few hours, will set up over the next days and weeks as it draws moisture from the ground. I do like the flex seal idea. That's a lot less of a mess than using a small roller and thinned roofing tar that I have used in the past when building a fence. Great video though. Most TH-camrs just film themselves doing something. You actually purchased all the supplies and did all the work for the video.
I use roofing tar on bottom of the post and build up the concrete at top so water can't stand & soak in. Never had any issues. Got post I installed 20 years ago, still standing with no rot.
An alternative is to butter the post 10 inches below and 10 inches above grade with a cheap acrylic caulking (DAP Tube), about 1/8" thick. 20 years post with no rot, also with Canadian winters.
@@TexasEngineer Posts can and do rot at the bottom, but that rarely affects the integrity of the post. Posts that rot at grade level will simply weaken and snap off when the fence becomes a sail in a high wind.
I set a mailbox on a treated 4x4 post much like you did except I coated it with a thick layer of tar. That was 30 years ago. It's still holding up well. An even better way to treat is by burning the surface until it scales, then wire brush clean and coat with a 50/50 mixture of tar and mineral spirits. It's obvious, you put a lot of work into making this video. Thank you and thumbs up!
Dude you just earn a like and a subscription without asking it! Thanks for taking time to test or to mythbust other recommendations. Wow, thats awesome!
In 2011, my newly constructed house needed a mailbox. (Southern USA, no freezing, ever) I set the 4x4 into the ground as usual and used Quickrete. About 2 years later, the post became loose. However I cannot remember if the post was able to be wiggled within the concrete, or the concrete was able to be wiggled within the dirt hole. Doesn't matter. Had to be removed at that point. Needing to replace and upgrade to a nicer mailbox, I dug the entire first one out including the concrete. Then I set a new post in the same hole, but this time using expanding foam. That was 10+ years ago and the mailbox post is still rock hard sturdy. Zero wiggle. It was the first time I ever had used it. Totally miraculous. Recommend without reservations. Since the foam I used expanded somewhat above ground, the next day I began cutting the excess using a box cutter. The foam was very tough, definitely did not allow finger-poke-holes or even indentations, and really resisted being cut. So I switched to a hand saw which did the trick, using the box cutter only for the foam up against the wood. It's possible that you removed your experimental foam cylinder and tested it too soon. Despite what the manufacturer wrote on the package, the polyurethane probably needed well more than only two hours to fully cure. By the way, my newer mailbox post has one modification. I screwed in four thick, exterior lag screws into the underground portion of the 4x4, one on each side, several inches below the ground level. This was so the expanding foam would have more surface area to grab onto as it solidified around the mailbox post. The screws protruded about 3 inches from the post. That is, they weren't screwed all the way in. Probably this is why my post remains so incredibly sturdy more than a decade later. What is your opinion on that? I like the idea of FlexSeal and will use it next time. The clear version. And I will spray the entire underground portion, not just a few inches above and below the ground level. Do you think that is wise? At least one commenter wrote that it separated/expanded somewhat from his post resulting in it being a rainwater collector, if I understood his comment correctly. I plan to upgrade my mailbox again later this year because the sun and rain have been taking its toll on the wood above the ground. I'll do it in December when it cools down outside !!
I used the Sika foam on all our fence posts. Only 4 years in but no wiggle at all, and sturdy. Missouri weather. I hadn’t heard about sealing the posts but will when it Ned’s to be replaced. So far so good.
Starting when I was a preteen in the mid 50s my dad had my younger brother and me help him build fences on our property lines and cross fences for our pasture. We used old railroad crossties that he got from his work. Then we split them into 4 post that were approximately 4X4 inches X 8 feet long. Then we coated the bottom 3 1/2 feet and the end with roofing tar thinned with just enough diesel to be able to put two coats on with a big heavy brush. These were left stacked separated with 1X2s for several weeks before building the fence. We dug the holes 3 feet deep and back filled with 6 inches of gravel. The tops of the holes were wider than the bottoms to make room for the post hole digger handles. Each corner, gate post, and every 100 feet the post would be a whole crosstie treated the same way with the roofing tar and diesel mixture. These were all 10 feet on center set in concrete made with sand and gravel that my dad also got from the railroad yard where he worked. The only mechanical tool we had was the electric motor powered concrete mixer. Then three strands of barbed wire was strung starting exactly 1 foot above the ground, 6 inches from the top of the post with one in the middle. After the barbed wire was installed each post got painted with 2 coats of the tar and diesel mixture. In July of 23 I went back to my home town to visit family there and walked my child hood home property. All but a few of those post are still there where one side of that fence was still there and in use. The new property owners removed the other side making room for the expansion of the medical complex that now owns my child hood home.
I recently pulled up a couple of 4 x 4 treated grape vine posts. They were placed with only dirt around them and had been in the ground for at least 30 years. What I saw was that even though the above ground portion was weathered with some cracking, the below ground portion still looked new. My guess was that the consistency of the below ground conditions was a good thing as compared to the variations of seasonal weather that the exposed part saw. Pretty amazing.
This matches what I have found in my area. All posts I have had to remove that were placed in concrete have rotted at the point where the post enters the concrete from the top. Those placed directly in the dirt or initially held in place with rocks haven't even started rotting. My Dad taught me to backfill around a post with rocks before putting in any dirt.
@@amessnger or carpenter ants like we do. I just pulled up a pist that had been in clay soil for about 15yrs. No concrete. The end had a fair bit of decomposition and insect damage.
First up, thanks for the video. As someone who's done plenty of these I have only one consideration that is counter to your content, check for what the frost line is in your area and set your post depth to that. Also if you want to get potentially excessive make a bell shape in the dirt and put a few good size nails sticking out in different places of the buried post. You'll make the dirt around the concrete counteract the lift force of yearly frost and the shear strength of a thick nail will act to bond the wood to the concrete. I'm glad you did the quikset demo. I've always known what became evident and have seen elsewhere that even if it gains ground moisture over time, the psi strength is drastically reduced. Ya gotta mix it. You wouldn't eat a cake that just had components dumped in the pan.
I’ve always mixed in water as I go when I set posts. Specifically, I’d add about 1/3 or 1/2 a bag to the hole, add some water, then mix it together in the hole with a long-handled spade or thin shovel. Repeat the process until I had the amount of concrete I wanted in the hole.
Fair is fair, this is the best explanation on TH-cam. How great is the guy for going through the trouble of digging it back out, to check. Good to know that as always, companies exaggerate what their products can do (I think Tide's instructions still say "just mix with water and let clothes sit in it for 20 min and you're done")
Good video. Once I learned to set post with sand, never went back to concrete. If it ever rots, it comes out very easy to be replaced. If the fence moves, just tap back in place and add more sand if needed.
Interesting. If the bottom of the post got wet, I guess sand would let it dry out better than concrete would. Also, in frosty winter, sand would create a dry zone around the post more able to allow for ice-induced sheer stress than concrete would. Never tried that, but gonna.
What a great video! I appreciate you taking the time to pull the pole back up and having a good teaching moment. Went for the flex spray and loved how to pull the pole at the end. Thanks!
Data point for fellow homeowners: 25 years ago I built a decorative front yard picket fence. Its structural needs were to not blow over in the wind, except for supporting the gate. It’s a bit less than 4’ tall. I used 3”x3” pressure-treated posts and 8’ pre-manufactured wood panels. I did use concrete for the gate posts, but the rest are just sunk into my heavy clay soil. I am in the South where frozen soil is not a concern. I painted everything with white primer. It still stands and still looks good. Not every fence needs to be set in concrete…
Loved this video. Answers plenty of questions and goes deep! Lol one thing I would like to address, mid west here, frost line 36” really deep 42” for post holes. I find the moisture content of our soil will really get all that concrete hardened by the end of the week! I prefer to extend the concrete just above the soil height protect that post from pooling water. Love that flex seal trick, that’s a keeper! Climate changes everything, Arizona is very different than Minnesota!
My technique is similar. Pour a bag, add water and then poke with a rod to help water seep through concrete (essentially stirring the concrete in the hole) . Repeat for another 1/2 bag, until 2 bags are added. Takes a little more time, but guarantees that the water has saturated all the concrete. I like the idea of spraying the sealer. Great idea. Thanks
I set posts in all gravel… packing into place with a sledge hammer. I have had 4x4 posts last 30+ years…. The all gravel allows all water to drain away… just last week I set a 4x6 as a mailbox post. Used pea gravel and the smashing down with the sledge hammer. I also burned the bottom of the post.
Excellent video. Nicely demonstrated. When you were pouring the water , you should have a steel bar poking down around the pole. That way you can be more certain that water reached all the way down. Alternatively place a few pvc pipes (4 of them), pour the the quick concrete, add water and into the pipes. slowly them them out.
I built a 6 foot x 120 foot long fence 30 years ago, hand mixed and concreted every second post with pea gravel at bottom. Canadian winters and winds, only had to replace one post after someone backed into it. Never had those quik-cret bags back then.
I appreciate your video very detailed. I love the comments too because we learn from each. filling the whole with water halfway. doing the water and concrete and in thirds. All good suggestions to avoid the bottom being dry
SWI Fence does a ton of videos on fencing install and mythbusting. You don't need to build some complicated bracing system. The concrete will hold the post in place once you pack it around the post. Dry pour anything with concrete is garbage. The screws in the base of a post don't make it harder for your post to come out, it makes it harder to get the concrete solidly along your post. Building a concrete mound above ground doesn't slow rot on the post, but it does make it really easy for frost to heave the post out of the ground. SWI fence has lots of great information and I highly recommend their channel.
I agree that SWI fence is a great channel. And they are against complicated bracing. Scott's system is NOT complicated and is reasonable for a one-man DIY operation. The SWI people need to keep checking plum while adding the concrete. Scott's system avoids the rechecking and rechecking. (Of course, SWI recommends not using concrete at all, but the same comment applies to just tamping in the dirt.)
I only add concrete to the corner posts and the gate posts. Otherwise i just use gravel and whatever rocks come out of the hole. We have more rock than soil here! I find that I don't try for perfectly level until I have about half the filler in the hole. Once there is enough filler the post isn't going to move. I have done a LOT of posts and I haven't had issues with them not been level.
Thanks for the video. If only doing one hole, I typically will do what you did. Except put water in hole first... put in some concrete... more water... follow that pattern. I also use the digging spade to mix it up some as I go..
When i built a chain gate, i used pressure treated 4 by4 posts . Put screws around the bottom,then i premixed the quick crete + poured it in 25 years later + it's still good as new I live in CT.
I don’t know how but YT reads minds. I’m going to temporarily build a greenhouse to overwinter my exotic plants in pots and your video has come perfectly handy. I will use that foam since is just temporarily. Thank you 🎼🎶 👏🏻👏🏻🎶🎼
I'v always set mailboxes with the dirt and rocks from the hole, tamping at last three times as I go, with a naked ground contact pressure treated post, haven't had a failure yet unless you count snowplow and drunk driving damage.
Awesome video demo. You disproved my thoughts of the viability of foam. But the big take-away is adding the water to my hole. Thank you! It simply pays to break out the wheelbarrow and do it right!
Really impressed with the amount of time and effort you put into demoing the setting of a post that you didn't actually need for your own use - really helpful and instructive!
Informative, helpful video. In west central Florida fence installers typically place 4x4 fence posts directly into the sandy soil (excellent drainage) without a gravel base or concrete around the post. As a homeowner with many posts I've observed that the posts will rot at ground level, not at depth. That being said your 4 inch above and 4 inch below ground level Flex Seal tip will probably delay rot by a factor of years. Unfortunately, fence installers aren't going to perform this step unless requested by the homeowner.
I always support premixing the concrete to "do it right". If you're going to dry pour, arguably the concrete at the bottom will pull the moisture from the soil and setup. You can also put in concrete, add water, more concrete, more water if you're going to "dry pour".
All good points, and I would add a few of my own. First, consider the capillary action of end grain posts. If you don't seal the ends of the posts, then ground water will wick itself up into the wood over time. So if you flex seal the sides, also seal the bottom of your posts. Also, rain can get in to the top, so consider that too. Secondly, while true that half your post's concrete stayed dry, over time ground moisture will infiltrate into the dry portion and make it set up too. But premixing is how to be sure it is all mixed well. Finally, think about what kind of soil you have. If you have clay, it has more rigidity than sandy soil. I have seen some people put spikes crossways in the below ground portion before the concrete. This gives lateral support if the soil isn't as firm.
Agree 100% about the need to seal the ends, but I use penetrating oil (Penofin) for this and have had zero failures in maybe 15 posts installed over 15 years. None of my fence posts exhibits any wear, and I use as much Penofin as the post will absorb, often 5 or more coats, before setting into the ground. The Penofin stops penetrating when the wood has absorbed as much as it can. Also zero failures, and no obvious rot, around the soil surface (here in the Central Valley of California) because of the Penofin and my concrete sloping away from the post.
We've been using Henry's Foundation Coating/Sealer as we always seem to have a lot left over. Been working great. Probably a lot cheaper than flex-seal.
This is brilliant. I recently bought a bag of rapid set set concrete which instructed the same and wondered if the traditional way I opted for was worth the effort. Thankyou👍
I use quikrete alot...I put water in the hole. Let it soak in then fill the hole up with water again. I also have been using a shrinkwrap I bought at Lowe's (they had to order it). But I will be trying out that flex seal tip on my next project. I also prime and double coat paint my 4x4s and 6x6s and I use treated wood. I am guessing he didn't make his hole bell shaped because he wanted to pull up the post to see if the mix worked. Nice video, guy 😊
Agree! The Quickrete instructions specifically state to fill the hole "first" with water up to about 1/3 full. Then, add the dry concrete followed up with more water on top. There is no concern of adding too much water, but the secret is to make sure to fill the hole with water BEFORE dumping in the dry concrete!
@@JustSayN2O the wrap: postsaver it comes in a roll. I got six posts done out of one role (ordered at Lowe's); any good primer should do and exterior paint (i like water based with a semi gloss) the color I want the post to be when I am done. Good luck 🙂
@@JustSayN2O if all you're doing is one post you should try the spray on seal. The shrink wrap is expensive. Made for multiple uses and you'll need a heat gun. In order: primer, paint, seal. Good luck
Love your video!! The only thing I do a little differently is I like bringing my concrete up to ground level and not add sod back. My reason is you don’t have to weed whack and your post doesn’t get beat up as you can mow around all sides of post. For the concrete part I don’t worry about the loose concrete below ground level because a few rains water will get to it. I know this because I have dug out ones I did the same as you did and they were solid below ground level over time. Love the flex seal idea and will start using that. Thank you very much for your video! 👍🤛🏻
I have always dumped one or two buckets of water into the hole first, then put the cement in, then put water on top. That way, the cement draws the water from both ends, and any excess water soakes into the soil.
Always premix your concrete beforehand for best results, that's my experience. Great idea with the flex seal, I'll have to try that next time. Great video btw!
Great comment! Took soil out around the mailbox post and there's probably 25% of the wood that has been removed by various gardeners over the years whipping it with string (or worse) trimmers. This one is pretty much just set in the soil so there is no concrete boundary around the post to keep the grass and weeds from growing up right next to it, leading to over-zealous trimming.
The directions I read said to fill the hole with 1/3 of the water then add the mix, and then add the rest of the water. Great video, I’d like to see a post set by adding some of the water first without having to do it 😅
Love the effort to pull the post to show how the concrete setup. I wonder if over time would moisture from the ground get wicked into the remaining dry concrete to set it up. However, this is why I always prefer to mix it wet to ensure a full setup. Convenience is one thing but if it comes at the risk of product failure down the road I'd just as soon put the extra effort in up front.
Protip, if you really want that post to sit into the concrete, add some random nails/screws to the bottom of the post and add concrete into the hole. This way when the concrete dries, it'll literally have something to "bite" that's connected to the post. It'll be a PITA to take the post out if the post falls from a hurricane or tornado but by that time, you're going to be in more trouble with something else than the fence.
I pour half the bag in the hole then half the water and mix it up a little with the ram rod to get the water down into the powder. Then add the other half bag etc. Also, I just taper the top of the cement to just above soil level sloping away from the post to keep the moisture away instead of using the rubber seal which will likely not withstand years of weed whacking. A nice dome of concrete will.
New subscriber here. 😊 This is the best post-setting video I've ever watched. I can't believe I didn't know about the post level tool. I have some maintenance projects coming up and that's going to be super handy. It's really difficult when you're working solo to get any kind of upright post to set level without walking around and around and adjusting little by little each time. Thank you so much.
Great video! I used the foam on my mailbox a few years ago and it is still standing strong. I think it is good for mailboxes but I'm not sure I would use it for a fence or deck. Flex seal was a good idea.
Great video, thanks for all the detailed instructions. I have to replace one of fence post that got loose during the last storm, I don't think it was ever replaced since the house was built 20 years ago. I will follow your DIY when I replace it. Thanks again!!!
@@MAGAMAN No, you said it, I made no such statement. You're more than welcome to stop by and demonstrate how easily the post pulls out of 3 year old concrete since YOU claim I made it harder for the concrete to get a "good grip" on the post. Maybe we can have Everyday Home Repairs post the video of you ripping my fence posts out of the ground so others don't make the same mistake.
I happened upon this video and I must say it’s a really really good video. And the comments are very helpful for options to your example if you can scroll past the complaints. Great video!
Nonsense. It only proves what happens after four hours. The concrete at the bottom will draw moisture from the ground over time and harden just like the rest of it.
If you can go 20 inches you can go 30 inches and more. Do it. The gravel in the bottom is a good thing. The flex seal is good. Always premix. Very good demonstration, sir on how the easy way is the path to failure.
Is you hole conical? If more narrow at the bottom and wider at the top it will not stay secure - it will rise out of the ground if you have soil movement such as freezing/thawing or even simple moisture swelling between wet and dry periods.
@@TwilightxKnight13 Should I ignore my observations living on this property since 1998? I'm not that stupid. I also know why sometimes it won't happen, as in my prior comment.
I use thick roofing cement on the bottom of the post and up 2 1/2 Feet and drive 4 nails opposite on the sides. Then I add the concrete. I built my son's clubhouse 15 foot off the ground. After 38 years it's still solid and in place.
Agreed. Lay all the posts out next to each other on sawhorses and lay a piece of wood across them at the height you want the line. Spray all of them, then turn 90 degrees and repeat. Fast and easy way to seal your posts. You can do it standing up instead of on your knees and the post does not have to sit in the ground for a day waiting in the flex seal to cure.
THANK YOU for doing this. Soooooo many people just don’t understand that you need to mix the concrete before it goes into the hole. While I’m not a fan of putting the post in the hole, your suggestions will help the posts last a little longer. I’m more of a steel or aluminum post person just because I want to do it one time and never again.
I asked my fence installers this question re: the concrete water absorption... they said the lower part will absorb groundwater moisture over time and solidify
I should do a test where I pull the posts after 1, 3, and 6 months to see if the dry mix in the middle and bottom do absorb water. Even if it absorbs I doubt it would be a solid cylinder.
Yes 4 hours is not enough time for it to set up. It pulls in moisture from the ground over time. Also the flex seal is not a bad idea, but the end grain is the most important part that I would seal.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs Yeah I doubt as well. IMO you can't beat just mixing it normally before dumping it in. Some fence guys don't add ANY water which I find ridiculous personally.
Interesting video I never thought of using rubberised spray. I’m in Australia so no problem with the ground freezing. Certainly treated pine is a good option so termites don’t eat it. However I always tell people never concrete in a wooden post as the post will shrink a little bit and allow water down the gap. From then on your post rots in a column of water. We’d normally use Hard wood here in Australia perhaps treated pine doesn’t shrink in the same way? The standard way to do things here is to cement a steel saddle into the ground and bolt the post to the saddle so the wood is a couple of inches up. Termites have no trouble climbing but you can see their little mud tubes 🤠
I really don't think you need concrete. When I was in my early 20's I installed some treated fence posts at my parents' house. No concrete, just crushed gravel. I put a couple of inches of crushed gravel in the hole first, compacted with a 2X4. Then the poles, and compacted gravel in layers around the poles using the 2X4 again, almost to the top. The crushed gravel will drain any water away from the poles unless the soil is clay. I'm in my late 60s now, and those posts are still there.
I would think it would all depend on the annual precipitation, the frost depth (if any) and the type of soil. Where I live we only get 11 inches of rain a year, the frost depth is minimal, and the soil is tightly compacted clay, so the posts I’ve put in through the years haven’t rotted or moved.
Excellent demo. I have always thought adding water as the last step was suspect. The fast setting concrete is good stuff but mix in a wheelbarrow. I always have.
I just replaced numerousl people's fences that went down after the hurricane here in the Houston area. The ones that failed the worst were all set with that foam junk. We really need the weight of the concrete down here to help counteract the force of the driving wind/rain that's shoving fences over. Our soil is basically wet snot so the foam becomes instantly water logged and squishy.
Appreciate your methodical approach to answering the questions we may have. If you're pouring Two bags of Quikrete Fast-Setting mix into the hole and Then adding water, that would explain your result. The Quikrete instructions do say you can pour the gallon of water after dumping a bag of dry powder in, but dumping Two bags in and Then pouring two gallons of water in would be too much for the water to penetrate. (BTW, that expanding foam product can be dangerous - read some of the negative user comments on the orange big box store's website for that product.)
Always seal the END GRAIN. Also, pour down some water then some concrete, then repeat these steps; Don't pour the whole bag of concrete at once. Go with concrete all the way up and taper it away from the post. Don't bother to replace the sod.
30 years of DIY self-reliance here. Self described "urban homesteader," lol. 1. You have good vids as a channel. 2. 600+ comments and only 6 reference the frost line. Wow. (You must live where there isn't one?) 3. Similar to your FlexSeal, I have been using rubberized undercoating in a rattle can for as long as I can remember. Keep up the good work!
As a concrete contractor, Im always suspicious of dry mix poured into a hole. Its only a post afterall, but everything we pour is well consolidated, low water to cement ratio, tested and cured with bracing for 24 hrs or more to eliminate disturbance. Your other points are well done
The rot starts where the damp wood mixes with air, there are wooden ship wrecks, old boats buried being dug up, and Roman timber pile foundations still solid; so the sealant you are using is a good plan to extend life of post. The concrete of left dry will eventually draw in moisture and set, probably depends how much load you want the post to resist before this happens as to how much you need to be cured quickly. Your post looked well set in place to me.
Pre mixed concrete in container or wheel barrel is Always stronger than dry pour especially slabs etc. Whenever cement is removed from ground, dry pours will crumble in your hands...It's worth a little extra work to mix thoroughly, Good video
Great video, thanks for posting. As far as premixing, why not just add water as you pour the cement? I pour half the bag into water at the bottom and then add more in two phases.
I have always used a layering technique for the concrete when setting posts. I add the concrete in 1/4 bag increments, tamping each layer and using a quart of water before adding the next layer. I have never had trouble with a lack of setup. I have never thought to use FlexSeal but I like the idea! I would say it might make more sense to spray the whole section that will be buried though, or at the very least the bottom of the post on the end grain.
You were doing so good right up until you poured the concrete in the hole dry. I've been building fences for over 35 years and I've torn down hundreds of them. My best days are when I realize that the concrete has been poured dry. All it takes is a whack with a sledgehammer and those things come right out. That concrete will never hold. I don't care how many tests you do. I have done more. Pouring the concrete in wet helps it to bond to the post. Fill all the voids and make sure that the chemical reaction in the concrete goes off correctly. Also leaving the concrete a couple of inches below. Grade allows the water that will collect around the post to wick away rather than trying to protect the post from water which already is pressure treated. Good job though, and you're right, it's not structural
Wow, interesting concrete reveal. My fence was built with totally dry concrete in the hole. It was explained to me that ground water would moisten the concrete in the whole after job completed. I live in Florida and there is a lot of rainfall throughout the year. I hope that I wasn’t lied to!
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Won't the rubber flex seal decompose when constantly in water or moisture underground? Have you compared this to using Postsaver Pro-Wrap?
I've done many fence posts with fast setting concrete and used a 3/8" rebar 3 to 4' long to push holes through the concrete powder and you will see the water disappear in these small holes all the way down. Works great.
Never less than 36" on a fence post buried.
And I will not even debate it with you. And yes I have been doing longer than you have been alive!
My dad and I used to install posts for our neighbors and friends to help out around the farms in the area. You can avoid wheelbarrows and a lot of mixing by doing exactly what you did, but putting in 1/3 of the bag, pouring 1/3 water, then more powder, then water, and so forth in 3 or 4 increments. You don't need to stir or mix, but by adding the water at certain levels, it soaks in up and down and the whole thing sets. Never had a post fail due to concrete.
Kind of obvious that's the way it should be done. I've set at least two hundred posts around my prop. and that's what I did. Not sure why this guy missed that rather obvious and simply solution.
@@SurfDweller Kind of obvious that he did this as an example. Not sure why this poster missed that rather obvious and simple solution.
THATS WHAT I WAS SAYING AS HE WAS DOING IT. HE MUST NOT HAVE MAKE KOOLAID BEFORE... BUT NICE VIDEO.
alternatevely, you pour some water into the hole, fill with 1/4 or 1/3 quickcrete, mix & repeat. Never hurts to drive a few galvanized nails/screws into post to prevent movement. Been doing it for decades in highly reactive soil & posts are solid as Day 1.
Same method here, and I put in quite a few mailbox posts as a handyman. I do also use the ground breaking rod to roughly mix or push any air pockets out of the mix, but only a few times as the mix sets up very quickly.
Ex fence builder here. We used to have a garden hose handy to spray water into the hole while pouring in the concrete at the same time. The concrete will also draw ground moisture as well. Also, we eliminated the need to stake the post by just holding the post close to plumb while dumping in the concrete, and then bumping it into level after the concrete was in the hole. As long as the post wasn't bumped afterwards, we never had an issue.
Same. Also I was taught to pour the concrete above the land level and crest a sort of small hill or slope so water can’t pool around the post.
Thank you.
I was gonna say (as a concrete guy), to add some water to the hole before dumping the dry mix in. Get things hydrated, but for a mail box, whatever should work fine
windy areas say No.
@@frez777the instructions on the bags I used a couple of weeks ago even said to add water first 😅
I love watching videos where people dig a hole and the ground is gorgeous black dirt instead of clay and rocks and roots like all of the places I've lived across the USA.
I have to use a pick to break up the solid shale anywhere I want to plant something.
Less then a foot down we hit clay.
I live in Greenacres, Washington. We have a half inch of topsoil over rocks. The whole of Spokane Valley used to be the bottom of a river and the ground is these rounded granite rocks with sand and clay filling up the gaps between them. Digging post hole is always a bear, because you get a foot down and suddenly hit granite and when you finally get the whole rock out, it's the size of a car tire. Your hole is at your depth (even a few inches too deep), but it's now three or four feet in diameter.
Up on the prairies around the valley, though, the topsoil is six to ten feet deep. Digging in my grandpa's garden always left my brother, cousins, and I covered in black dirt.
I just had to jackhammer through a coal seam to install my fence posts deep enough haha
My thoughts exactly...from NC
Scott is just awesome. I'm a building mechanic here in Connecticut and I do electrical, plumbing, and carpentry. Even though I've been doing this work for 30 years, I love to watch these videos because I'm always learning something new. Scott always does things the right way and will go into detail on how things are done. You're never too old to learn things!
This was excellent. You answered a lot of "what if" questions for those of us who might be attempting this for the first time.
Thanks for the feedback!
In college for landscape design, we were taught to fill the hole halfway with water, then add the concrete mix(because it would be a wet mix) then finish off the hole. then smooth out the concrete always sloping it away from the post (there was no flex seal in the 80's). Great video, by the way. Your videos are always so clear and informative. Good job!
This was the way I was taught as well .. pre-fill the hole part way and then add the post hole mix and then adding any water on top. takes longer to cure but all of the concrete is wet.
@@doughenderson4345 9:54
I did fence work a lot. Never liked the quick set stuff. 3+ ft hole.. bit of gravel.. 2 bags of mixed Crete per hole.. 30+yrs later.. still like new. There is always a good way.. a better way and overkill. I think 30 yrs is long enough.
Im own a landscape design and construction business since 1999 - 4 hours to set…over here in the U.K. our fast set takes 10 minutes, and you add water, 50% of the bag, water, then the rest of the bag. My top tip is use oak posts they’ll last on average 40 years, in fact I’ve just taken an 8 inch oak post out the was 250 years old that was secured by rammed rocks.
@@millersgardenservices My God an oak post would cost a fortune here in the USA
I've always dug a 36" hole, add 6" gravel, level post. Always premix concrete and pour into hole. I bring it slightly above grade and bevel it away from post. Never had a issue and still strong at 30yrs. Take Care
Actually the way you did it was correct. It drains well and keeps moisture away from going down the post. Only thing I would add is soak the post in used motor oil first.
I agree with this 100%. I'm going to repeat what you said! There is no reason to put organic material (dirt) around your post. This traps water and bacteria. Keep the post dry and sealed. To do this, seal the lumber, starting with end-grain, up to about 6" above the yard level with some oil based product, Henry's, (or similar). at bottom of hole, below end-grain, leave 6" gravel. Set post. Then mix actual concrete in a wheel barrow. Pour it in all the way up to a couple inches above grass. Bevel it away from post. Again, the top of the concrete pour is an inch or two proud of the grass, and the Henry's (or similar) is a few inches proud of the concrete. Now you can go so far as to seal the top of the concrete. Lastly, PT posts are of inconsistent quality. Coat them with Penofin or similar. If the fence boards need replacing down the line, no biggie. But redoing the posts, is work.
@@johnlux6905 thank you for this explanation and step by step process! I’ll be replacing my mailbox with post this weekend so this is helpful. Can I ask what the purpose of the oil is? To keep moisture away? Either way I’ll do as you say lol
@@captainedc I have such a stupid question but does it have to be used motor oil?
Thank you for sharing that wisdom!
I like how you sacrificed a spot in your well-kept yard just to make this helpful video. You're the man.
My guess is there will be a hammock there in a future video, but THAT guy could make all of that unnoticeable in under 2 hours if he wanted.
Well-kept
My frost line is around six inches. I have pulled up 4x4 post where it was “dry set” by layering in about ten inches at a time with water on top and repeated until the hole pour is toppled off. Twenty years later I have had to remove some of these, during renovation projects, using the same method with a “HyLift” jack. They have all been perfect.
9:27 ah ha!! As I suspected as well. When we did the 27 fence posts, we took a 3’ piece of rebar and jabbed down into the mix to get the water to get all the way down to the bottom. Worked quite well too. But I appreciate your video showing the dry cement in the bottom.
We did the same. Made sure we had enough water and did a mix/poke/ppokey in the hole. The massive Deck is solid.
This. Don't just dump water on your dry mix. Dry set your posts, plumb them up, then add your water and drive your piece of rebar into the mix and add more water. Easier than premixing before putting in the hole
Hold the concrete and use the pill end of your bar to pound the earth back around your post. Rammed earth is very strong. Now you don’t have a high energy concrete 😊turd to jack out of the ground when the PT post inevitably fails.
I've removed several rotted posts over the years so I appreciate you mentioning sealing the posts. I use roofing tar/cement on the part of the post that goes into the ground up to about 6 inches above ground. I've been doing this for several years and posts are holding up. Also, I noticed when I removed old posts there were several where the cement was still powder several years after they had been placed. I assumed it was due to pouring the concrete in and then adding water. Because of this I've always mixed the concrete up in a wheel barrel and placed it around the posts.
Growing up, my grandfather would always dip the ends of posts in used motor oil to seal them. He told me that if it starts to rot anywhere, it will begin at the endgrain because it’s like straws for the wood. I typically paint the ends instead of motor oil, but something else to think about
I use melted wax, like when I store my wood to dry out, but same same. I suppose any petroleum or latex product would suffice for the same results. Paint, deck sealer, oil etc...
Great idea. I always used a mixture of tar and diesel fuel and paint them to about 4 inches above the hole right to the end grain.
I pre diped the end post in wood preservatives for minimum of 24 hours ( 1 week is the best).
Now you know that the wood is no longer going to absorb moisture.
Yes, even the wood is already pressure preservative treated from the lumber manufacturer.
This prevents water draws upward from the ground.
Then use a thin layer of roofing cement coated the 4x4 ends before pour concrete.
Expect 35 + years on each post.
Use brackets and elevate the post out of the concrete and ground, the only way to prevent post damage….
@GvIn2it clear, or apple cider vinegar?
The Flex Seal tip is absolutely great! I will definitely be doing that next time I set a post. As for the Quickcrete that was still powder, over time that dry powder will eventually draw moisture from the soil around it which will solidify the rest of the concrete. That said, it's best to fill the hole half way, then add a half gallon of water. Then fill the hole and add the other half gallon. I've done that several times in the past.
Id rather not poison the earth.. the wood wont rot for at least 10 or 15 years
I'd research doing this a bit more. It may trap moisture in the wood and rot more quickly than bare wood, just like paint does.
How long does Flex Seal last? The link states " lasts many years ". How many is "many"?
Thank you for the clear, concise narration. It is obvious you took time to plan out all the details you shared, and the extra effort showing the end results of the foam and concrete is appreciated.
This was something I have wondered about forever. I have seen people pour water into the hole and thought this may happen and with your video it proved the point. I still mix mine in a mixer then pour into the hole and glad I've done all of mine that way. Thank you!
SWI Fence did a video and when they pulled the post out, the concrete fell of the post.
Great video! My uncle helped me put up a new fence (steel posts) a couple of years ago, and the method we used for the concrete was a bit different. Rather than dumping the entire bag of concrete into the hole and then pouring the water on top, we dumped half the bag of concrete, then half the water, and then used a long bar to push down into the sludge a few times to create some holes for the water. Added more concrete, then more water, and repeated the process.
Two things. Pouring dry concrete on top of your gravel will just give you very gravelly concrete at the bottom of the hole. It will not give you the drainage you're looking for. Also, the concrete at the bottom of the hole, that was still dry after a few hours, will set up over the next days and weeks as it draws moisture from the ground.
I do like the flex seal idea. That's a lot less of a mess than using a small roller and thinned roofing tar that I have used in the past when building a fence.
Great video though. Most TH-camrs just film themselves doing something. You actually purchased all the supplies and did all the work for the video.
I use roofing tar on bottom of the post and build up the concrete at top so water can't stand & soak in. Never had any issues. Got post I installed 20 years ago, still standing with no rot.
@@VintageTexas59 definitely should paint the bottom of the post.....
An alternative is to butter the post 10 inches below and 10 inches above grade with a cheap acrylic caulking (DAP Tube), about 1/8" thick. 20 years post with no rot, also with Canadian winters.
Post does not rot at the bottom, only at the ground line and downward. This is why I am putting in steel posts.
@@TexasEngineer Posts can and do rot at the bottom, but that rarely affects the integrity of the post. Posts that rot at grade level will simply weaken and snap off when the fence becomes a sail in a high wind.
I set a mailbox on a treated 4x4 post much like you did except I coated it with a thick layer of tar. That was 30 years ago. It's still holding up well. An even better way to treat is by burning the surface until it scales, then wire brush clean and coat with a 50/50 mixture of tar and mineral spirits.
It's obvious, you put a lot of work into making this video. Thank you and thumbs up!
Absolutely the best course on YT DIY University! Great information! Thanks!
Dude you just earn a like and a subscription without asking it!
Thanks for taking time to test or to mythbust other recommendations. Wow, thats awesome!
In 2011, my newly constructed house needed a mailbox. (Southern USA, no freezing, ever) I set the 4x4 into the ground as usual and used Quickrete. About 2 years later, the post became loose. However I cannot remember if the post was able to be wiggled within the concrete, or the concrete was able to be wiggled within the dirt hole. Doesn't matter. Had to be removed at that point.
Needing to replace and upgrade to a nicer mailbox, I dug the entire first one out including the concrete. Then I set a new post in the same hole, but this time using expanding foam. That was 10+ years ago and the mailbox post is still rock hard sturdy. Zero wiggle. It was the first time I ever had used it. Totally miraculous. Recommend without reservations.
Since the foam I used expanded somewhat above ground, the next day I began cutting the excess using a box cutter. The foam was very tough, definitely did not allow finger-poke-holes or even indentations, and really resisted being cut. So I switched to a hand saw which did the trick, using the box cutter only for the foam up against the wood. It's possible that you removed your experimental foam cylinder and tested it too soon. Despite what the manufacturer wrote on the package, the polyurethane probably needed well more than only two hours to fully cure.
By the way, my newer mailbox post has one modification. I screwed in four thick, exterior lag screws into the underground portion of the 4x4, one on each side, several inches below the ground level. This was so the expanding foam would have more surface area to grab onto as it solidified around the mailbox post. The screws protruded about 3 inches from the post. That is, they weren't screwed all the way in. Probably this is why my post remains so incredibly sturdy more than a decade later. What is your opinion on that?
I like the idea of FlexSeal and will use it next time. The clear version. And I will spray the entire underground portion, not just a few inches above and below the ground level. Do you think that is wise? At least one commenter wrote that it separated/expanded somewhat from his post resulting in it being a rainwater collector, if I understood his comment correctly.
I plan to upgrade my mailbox again later this year because the sun and rain have been taking its toll on the wood above the ground. I'll do it in December when it cools down outside !!
I agree, FlexSeal the entire underground portion, and the above portion.
That's a cool suggestion
I used the Sika foam on all our fence posts. Only 4 years in but no wiggle at all, and sturdy. Missouri weather. I hadn’t heard about sealing the posts but will when it Ned’s to be replaced. So far so good.
Starting when I was a preteen in the mid 50s my dad had my younger brother and me help him build fences on our property lines and cross fences for our pasture. We used old railroad crossties that he got from his work. Then we split them into 4 post that were approximately 4X4 inches X 8 feet long. Then we coated the bottom 3 1/2 feet and the end with roofing tar thinned with just enough diesel to be able to put two coats on with a big heavy brush. These were left stacked separated with 1X2s for several weeks before building the fence.
We dug the holes 3 feet deep and back filled with 6 inches of gravel. The tops of the holes were wider than the bottoms to make room for the post hole digger handles. Each corner, gate post, and every 100 feet the post would be a whole crosstie treated the same way with the roofing tar and diesel mixture. These were all 10 feet on center set in concrete made with sand and gravel that my dad also got from the railroad yard where he worked. The only mechanical tool we had was the electric motor powered concrete mixer. Then three strands of barbed wire was strung starting exactly 1 foot above the ground, 6 inches from the top of the post with one in the middle. After the barbed wire was installed each post got painted with 2 coats of the tar and diesel mixture.
In July of 23 I went back to my home town to visit family there and walked my child hood home property. All but a few of those post are still there where one side of that fence was still there and in use. The new property owners removed the other side making room for the expansion of the medical complex that now owns my child hood home.
70 years
amazing posts!
I like the Flexseal tip. Also, thank you for sacrificing your labor and materials for our education.
I recently pulled up a couple of 4 x 4 treated grape vine posts. They were placed with only dirt around them and had been in the ground for at least 30 years. What I saw was that even though the above ground portion was weathered with some cracking, the below ground portion still looked new. My guess was that the consistency of the below ground conditions was a good thing as compared to the variations of seasonal weather that the exposed part saw. Pretty amazing.
This matches what I have found in my area. All posts I have had to remove that were placed in concrete have rotted at the point where the post enters the concrete from the top. Those placed directly in the dirt or initially held in place with rocks haven't even started rotting. My Dad taught me to backfill around a post with rocks before putting in any dirt.
You must not have termites in your area lile we do
@@amessnger or carpenter ants like we do. I just pulled up a pist that had been in clay soil for about 15yrs. No concrete. The end had a fair bit of decomposition and insect damage.
The rest of the concrete will soak up rain water and harden
First up, thanks for the video. As someone who's done plenty of these I have only one consideration that is counter to your content, check for what the frost line is in your area and set your post depth to that. Also if you want to get potentially excessive make a bell shape in the dirt and put a few good size nails sticking out in different places of the buried post. You'll make the dirt around the concrete counteract the lift force of yearly frost and the shear strength of a thick nail will act to bond the wood to the concrete.
I'm glad you did the quikset demo. I've always known what became evident and have seen elsewhere that even if it gains ground moisture over time, the psi strength is drastically reduced. Ya gotta mix it. You wouldn't eat a cake that just had components dumped in the pan.
I’ve always mixed in water as I go when I set posts. Specifically, I’d add about 1/3 or 1/2 a bag to the hole, add some water, then mix it together in the hole with a long-handled spade or thin shovel. Repeat the process until I had the amount of concrete I wanted in the hole.
Fair is fair, this is the best explanation on TH-cam. How great is the guy for going through the trouble of digging it back out, to check. Good to know that as always, companies exaggerate what their products can do (I think Tide's instructions still say "just mix with water and let clothes sit in it for 20 min and you're done")
Good video. Once I learned to set post with sand, never went back to concrete. If it ever rots, it comes out very easy to be replaced. If the fence moves, just tap back in place and add more sand if needed.
Interesting. If the bottom of the post got wet, I guess sand would let it dry out better than concrete would. Also, in frosty winter, sand would create a dry zone around the post more able to allow for ice-induced sheer stress than concrete would. Never tried that, but gonna.
What a great video! I appreciate you taking the time to pull the pole back up and having a good teaching moment. Went for the flex spray and loved how to pull the pole at the end. Thanks!
Data point for fellow homeowners: 25 years ago I built a decorative front yard picket fence. Its structural needs were to not blow over in the wind, except for supporting the gate. It’s a bit less than 4’ tall. I used 3”x3” pressure-treated posts and 8’ pre-manufactured wood panels. I did use concrete for the gate posts, but the rest are just sunk into my heavy clay soil. I am in the South where frozen soil is not a concern. I painted everything with white primer. It still stands and still looks good. Not every fence needs to be set in concrete…
Loved this video. Answers plenty of questions and goes deep! Lol one thing I would like to address, mid west here, frost line 36” really deep 42” for post holes. I find the moisture content of our soil will really get all that concrete hardened by the end of the week! I prefer to extend the concrete just above the soil height protect that post from pooling water. Love that flex seal trick, that’s a keeper! Climate changes everything, Arizona is very different than Minnesota!
Thank You for going to all that trouble and extra work to show us the correct process. That was awesome!
My technique is similar. Pour a bag, add water and then poke with a rod to help water seep through concrete (essentially stirring the concrete in the hole) . Repeat for another 1/2 bag, until 2 bags are added. Takes a little more time, but guarantees that the water has saturated all the concrete. I like the idea of spraying the sealer. Great idea. Thanks
I set posts in all gravel… packing into place with a sledge hammer. I have had 4x4 posts last 30+ years…. The all gravel allows all water to drain away… just last week I set a 4x6 as a mailbox post. Used pea gravel and the smashing down with the sledge hammer. I also burned the bottom of the post.
Same here. Quarter minus is cheap and packs like rock
Excellent video. Nicely demonstrated. When you were pouring the water , you should have a steel bar poking down around the pole. That way you can be more certain that water reached all the way down. Alternatively place a few pvc pipes (4 of them), pour the the quick concrete, add water and into the pipes. slowly them them out.
I built a 6 foot x 120 foot long fence 30 years ago, hand mixed and concreted every second post with pea gravel at bottom. Canadian winters and winds, only had to replace one post after someone backed into it. Never had those quik-cret bags back then.
Thanks for the feedback!
I appreciate your video very detailed. I love the comments too because we learn from each. filling the whole with water halfway. doing the water and concrete and in thirds. All good suggestions to avoid the bottom being dry
SWI Fence does a ton of videos on fencing install and mythbusting.
You don't need to build some complicated bracing system. The concrete will hold the post in place once you pack it around the post.
Dry pour anything with concrete is garbage.
The screws in the base of a post don't make it harder for your post to come out, it makes it harder to get the concrete solidly along your post.
Building a concrete mound above ground doesn't slow rot on the post, but it does make it really easy for frost to heave the post out of the ground.
SWI fence has lots of great information and I highly recommend their channel.
I agree that SWI fence is a great channel. And they are against complicated bracing. Scott's system is NOT complicated and is reasonable for a one-man DIY operation. The SWI people need to keep checking plum while adding the concrete. Scott's system avoids the rechecking and rechecking. (Of course, SWI recommends not using concrete at all, but the same comment applies to just tamping in the dirt.)
I only add concrete to the corner posts and the gate posts. Otherwise i just use gravel and whatever rocks come out of the hole. We have more rock than soil here! I find that I don't try for perfectly level until I have about half the filler in the hole. Once there is enough filler the post isn't going to move. I have done a LOT of posts and I haven't had issues with them not been level.
Thanks for the video. If only doing one hole, I typically will do what you did. Except put water in hole first... put in some concrete... more water... follow that pattern. I also use the digging spade to mix it up some as I go..
When i built a chain gate, i used pressure treated 4 by4 posts .
Put screws around the bottom,then i premixed the quick crete + poured it in
25 years later + it's still good as new
I live in CT.
How deep did you go?
@@DONALD1951 about 2 ft
I don’t know how but YT reads minds. I’m going to temporarily build a greenhouse to overwinter my exotic plants in pots and your video has come perfectly handy. I will use that foam since is just temporarily. Thank you 🎼🎶 👏🏻👏🏻🎶🎼
I'v always set mailboxes with the dirt and rocks from the hole, tamping at last three times as I go, with a naked ground contact pressure treated post, haven't had a failure yet unless you count snowplow and drunk driving damage.
Awesome video demo. You disproved my thoughts of the viability of foam. But the big take-away is adding the water to my hole. Thank you! It simply pays to break out the wheelbarrow and do it right!
I put a mailbox post in about 6 years ago using the expanding foam. It is still rock solid in the ground.
Me too. 10+ years ago. The post does not wiggle within the foam, and the foam does not wiggle within the surrounding dirt. Totally recommend.
Really impressed with the amount of time and effort you put into demoing the setting of a post that you didn't actually need for your own use - really helpful and instructive!
Here to help 👍
That's why I always premix the concrete,..
Thanks for the information,..
Informative, helpful video. In west central Florida fence installers typically place 4x4 fence posts directly into the sandy soil (excellent drainage) without a gravel base or concrete around the post. As a homeowner with many posts I've observed that the posts will rot at ground level, not at depth. That being said your 4 inch above and 4 inch below ground level Flex Seal tip will probably delay rot by a factor of years. Unfortunately, fence installers aren't going to perform this step unless requested by the homeowner.
I always support premixing the concrete to "do it right". If you're going to dry pour, arguably the concrete at the bottom will pull the moisture from the soil and setup. You can also put in concrete, add water, more concrete, more water if you're going to "dry pour".
All good points, and I would add a few of my own.
First, consider the capillary action of end grain posts. If you don't seal the ends of the posts, then ground water will wick itself up into the wood over time. So if you flex seal the sides, also seal the bottom of your posts. Also, rain can get in to the top, so consider that too.
Secondly, while true that half your post's concrete stayed dry, over time ground moisture will infiltrate into the dry portion and make it set up too. But premixing is how to be sure it is all mixed well.
Finally, think about what kind of soil you have. If you have clay, it has more rigidity than sandy soil. I have seen some people put spikes crossways in the below ground portion before the concrete. This gives lateral support if the soil isn't as firm.
Agree 100% about the need to seal the ends, but I use penetrating oil (Penofin) for this and have had zero failures in maybe 15 posts installed over 15 years. None of my fence posts exhibits any wear, and I use as much Penofin as the post will absorb, often 5 or more coats, before setting into the ground. The Penofin stops penetrating when the wood has absorbed as much as it can. Also zero failures, and no obvious rot, around the soil surface (here in the Central Valley of California) because of the Penofin and my concrete sloping away from the post.
We've been using Henry's Foundation Coating/Sealer as we always seem to have a lot left over. Been working great. Probably a lot cheaper than flex-seal.
Gold ingots are cheaper than FlexSeal.
This is brilliant. I recently bought a bag of rapid set set concrete which instructed the same and wondered if the traditional way I opted for was worth the effort. Thankyou👍
You bet!
I use quikrete alot...I put water in the hole. Let it soak in then fill the hole up with water again. I also have been using a shrinkwrap I bought at Lowe's (they had to order it). But I will be trying out that flex seal tip on my next project. I also prime and double coat paint my 4x4s and 6x6s and I use treated wood.
I am guessing he didn't make his hole bell shaped because he wanted to pull up the post to see if the mix worked.
Nice video, guy 😊
Agree! The Quickrete instructions specifically state to fill the hole "first" with water up to about 1/3 full. Then, add the dry concrete followed up with more water on top. There is no concern of adding too much water, but the secret is to make sure to fill the hole with water BEFORE dumping in the dry concrete!
What shrinkwrap, primer and paint do you use? I'm planning on replacing my mailbox later this year. Thanks.
@@JustSayN2O the wrap: postsaver it comes in a roll. I got six posts done out of one role (ordered at Lowe's); any good primer should do and exterior paint (i like water based with a semi gloss) the color I want the post to be when I am done.
Good luck
🙂
@@jrcastillo2824 👍
@@JustSayN2O if all you're doing is one post you should try the spray on seal. The shrink wrap is expensive. Made for multiple uses and you'll need a heat gun. In order: primer, paint, seal.
Good luck
Love your video!! The only thing I do a little differently is I like bringing my concrete up to ground level and not add sod back. My reason is you don’t have to weed whack and your post doesn’t get beat up as you can mow around all sides of post. For the concrete part I don’t worry about the loose concrete below ground level because a few rains water will get to it. I know this because I have dug out ones I did the same as you did and they were solid below ground level over time. Love the flex seal idea and will start using that. Thank you very much for your video! 👍🤛🏻
I have always dumped one or two buckets of water into the hole first, then put the cement in, then put water on top. That way, the cement draws the water from both ends, and any excess water soakes into the soil.
this guy high IQs
Easy and many people been doing it for years
Always premix your concrete beforehand for best results, that's my experience. Great idea with the flex seal, I'll have to try that next time. Great video btw!
Thanks for the feedback!
I wrap the top of the post in rubber roofing and add a layer of aluminum to the area just above the ground. String trimmer protection,
Great comment! Took soil out around the mailbox post and there's probably 25% of the wood that has been removed by various gardeners over the years whipping it with string (or worse) trimmers. This one is pretty much just set in the soil so there is no concrete boundary around the post to keep the grass and weeds from growing up right next to it, leading to over-zealous trimming.
The directions I read said to fill the hole with 1/3 of the water then add the mix, and then add the rest of the water. Great video, I’d like to see a post set by adding some of the water first without having to do it 😅
I used the expandable foam when I set the post for my mail box after 10 years it's still very strong.
Foam is garbage.
Mine too. 10+ years.
Love the effort to pull the post to show how the concrete setup. I wonder if over time would moisture from the ground get wicked into the remaining dry concrete to set it up. However, this is why I always prefer to mix it wet to ensure a full setup. Convenience is one thing but if it comes at the risk of product failure down the road I'd just as soon put the extra effort in up front.
Protip, if you really want that post to sit into the concrete, add some random nails/screws to the bottom of the post and add concrete into the hole. This way when the concrete dries, it'll literally have something to "bite" that's connected to the post. It'll be a PITA to take the post out if the post falls from a hurricane or tornado but by that time, you're going to be in more trouble with something else than the fence.
Set up one foam post out of curiosity about five years ago, and it has worked perfect since. I still use concrete though.
I pour half the bag in the hole then half the water and mix it up a little with the ram rod to get the water down into the powder. Then add the other half bag etc. Also, I just taper the top of the cement to just above soil level sloping away from the post to keep the moisture away instead of using the rubber seal which will likely not withstand years of weed whacking. A nice dome of concrete will.
New subscriber here. 😊
This is the best post-setting video I've ever watched. I can't believe I didn't know about the post level tool. I have some maintenance projects coming up and that's going to be super handy. It's really difficult when you're working solo to get any kind of upright post to set level without walking around and around and adjusting little by little each time. Thank you so much.
You should 'post' this on all social media platforms
Oh man! Nice one 😂
Great video! I used the foam on my mailbox a few years ago and it is still standing strong. I think it is good for mailboxes but I'm not sure I would use it for a fence or deck. Flex seal was a good idea.
The concrete mix will absorb moisture from the ground an turn solid within a day or so below the water line that he found.
Great video, thanks for all the detailed instructions. I have to replace one of fence post that got loose during the last storm, I don't think it was ever replaced since the house was built 20 years ago. I will follow your DIY when I replace it. Thanks again!!!
I've wrapped the post below grade in ice and water roofing membrane with success (so far anyway).
So you are saying you made it more difficult for the cement to get a good grip on the wood?
@@MAGAMAN
No, you said it, I made no such statement. You're more than welcome to stop by and demonstrate how easily the post pulls out of 3 year old concrete since YOU claim I made it harder for the concrete to get a "good grip" on the post. Maybe we can have Everyday Home Repairs post the video of you ripping my fence posts out of the ground so others don't make the same mistake.
I happened upon this video and I must say it’s a really really good video. And the comments are very helpful for options to your example if you can scroll past the complaints. Great video!
Digging the post up after the fact was a great idea. It proved dry filling a hole is a bad idea.
Nonsense. It only proves what happens after four hours. The concrete at the bottom will draw moisture from the ground over time and harden just like the rest of it.
If you can go 20 inches you can go 30 inches and more. Do it. The gravel in the bottom is a good thing.
The flex seal is good. Always premix.
Very good demonstration, sir on how the easy way is the path to failure.
Is you hole conical? If more narrow at the bottom and wider at the top it will not stay secure - it will rise out of the ground if you have soil movement such as freezing/thawing or even simple moisture swelling between wet and dry periods.
Don’t believe everything you hear about ground “heaving”
@@TwilightxKnight13 Should I ignore my observations living on this property since 1998? I'm not that stupid. I also know why sometimes it won't happen, as in my prior comment.
@@Sylvan_dB It all depends on where you live. I see posts pushed entirely out of the ground in the upper midwest USA.
I use thick roofing cement on the bottom of the post and up 2 1/2 Feet and drive 4 nails opposite on the sides. Then I add the concrete. I built my son's clubhouse 15 foot off the ground. After 38 years it's still solid and in place.
Flex seal will just make a nice little plastic cup to hold water. Oil or something to soak into the wood but allow it to wick away is needed.
It's a treated post. Nothing else is needed.
Great job. What I have done is mix the concrete in a 5 gallon bucket, in order to mix it more thoroughly. I have also mixed it in a wheelbarrow.
I'd think adding water with every bag, or half bag, would work properly instead of adding water all at the end.
This.
Agreed.
Or just mix it up instead of wasting time and being dumb.
Either way works. One way isn't better.
@@MAGAMAN yes, this!
Thank you for clearing that up about the foam and using the flex seal, Great tips
I like to paint posts head to toe before sinking it in the whole.
If you have a whole fence line, it is much easier to spray before assembling (IMHO)
Yeah batching the painting process would be much faster. Thanks for the feedback!
Agreed. Lay all the posts out next to each other on sawhorses and lay a piece of wood across them at the height you want the line. Spray all of them, then turn 90 degrees and repeat. Fast and easy way to seal your posts. You can do it standing up instead of on your knees and the post does not have to sit in the ground for a day waiting in the flex seal to cure.
THANK YOU for doing this. Soooooo many people just don’t understand that you need to mix the concrete before it goes into the hole. While I’m not a fan of putting the post in the hole, your suggestions will help the posts last a little longer. I’m more of a steel or aluminum post person just because I want to do it one time and never again.
Or just fill the hole with concrete( sonotube maybe) and set the post above grade using a metal connector to the concrete.
I asked my fence installers this question re: the concrete water absorption... they said the lower part will absorb groundwater moisture over time and solidify
I should do a test where I pull the posts after 1, 3, and 6 months to see if the dry mix in the middle and bottom do absorb water. Even if it absorbs I doubt it would be a solid cylinder.
Yes 4 hours is not enough time for it to set up. It pulls in moisture from the ground over time. Also the flex seal is not a bad idea, but the end grain is the most important part that I would seal.
🤦♂️@@creativewoodworking1010
@@EverydayHomeRepairs Yeah I doubt as well. IMO you can't beat just mixing it normally before dumping it in. Some fence guys don't add ANY water which I find ridiculous personally.
Interesting video I never thought of using rubberised spray.
I’m in Australia so no problem with the ground freezing.
Certainly treated pine is a good option so termites don’t eat it.
However I always tell people never concrete in a wooden post as the post will shrink a little bit and allow water down the gap.
From then on your post rots in a column of water.
We’d normally use Hard wood here in Australia perhaps treated pine doesn’t shrink in the same way?
The standard way to do things here is to cement a steel saddle into the ground and bolt the post to the saddle so the wood is a couple of inches up. Termites have no trouble climbing but you can see their little mud tubes 🤠
I really don't think you need concrete. When I was in my early 20's I installed some treated fence posts at my parents' house. No concrete, just crushed gravel. I put a couple of inches of crushed gravel in the hole first, compacted with a 2X4. Then the poles, and compacted gravel in layers around the poles using the 2X4 again, almost to the top. The crushed gravel will drain any water away from the poles unless the soil is clay. I'm in my late 60s now, and those posts are still there.
Posts are not treated as well as they used to be. And I live in Florida. Cement is definitely necessary here lol.
I would think it would all depend on the annual precipitation, the frost depth (if any) and the type of soil. Where I live we only get 11 inches of rain a year, the frost depth is minimal, and the soil is tightly compacted clay, so the posts I’ve put in through the years haven’t rotted or moved.
Excellent demo. I have always thought adding water as the last step was suspect. The fast setting concrete is good stuff but mix in a wheelbarrow. I always have.
I just replaced numerousl people's fences that went down after the hurricane here in the Houston area. The ones that failed the worst were all set with that foam junk. We really need the weight of the concrete down here to help counteract the force of the driving wind/rain that's shoving fences over. Our soil is basically wet snot so the foam becomes instantly water logged and squishy.
All the fences are going to fail in a hurricane over Cat 1. The foam will be easier to replace than the concrete ones.
Appreciate your methodical approach to answering the questions we may have.
If you're pouring Two bags of Quikrete Fast-Setting mix into the hole and Then adding water, that would explain your result. The Quikrete instructions do say you can pour the gallon of water after dumping a bag of dry powder in, but dumping Two bags in and Then pouring two gallons of water in would be too much for the water to penetrate.
(BTW, that expanding foam product can be dangerous - read some of the negative user comments on the orange big box store's website for that product.)
Always seal the END GRAIN. Also, pour down some water then some concrete, then repeat these steps; Don't pour the whole bag of concrete at once. Go with concrete all the way up and taper it away from the post. Don't bother to replace the sod.
30 years of DIY self-reliance here. Self described "urban homesteader," lol.
1. You have good vids as a channel.
2. 600+ comments and only 6 reference the frost line. Wow. (You must live where there isn't one?)
3. Similar to your FlexSeal, I have been using rubberized undercoating in a rattle can for as long as I can remember.
Keep up the good work!
As a concrete contractor, Im always suspicious of dry mix poured into a hole. Its only a post afterall, but everything we pour is well consolidated, low water to cement ratio, tested and cured with bracing for 24 hrs or more to eliminate disturbance. Your other points are well done
The rot starts where the damp wood mixes with air, there are wooden ship wrecks, old boats buried being dug up, and Roman timber pile foundations still solid; so the sealant you are using is a good plan to extend life of post. The concrete of left dry will eventually draw in moisture and set, probably depends how much load you want the post to resist before this happens as to how much you need to be cured quickly. Your post looked well set in place to me.
If you can plan your dig after a rain event it’s much easier
Heck yeah! Middle of a drought is no fun 👎
After a light raid. If it is all sticky mud, it's going to be even worse.
Great video! I always fill the hole halfway with water, then dump the concrete in.
Pre mixed concrete in container or wheel barrel is Always stronger than dry pour especially slabs etc. Whenever cement is removed from ground, dry pours will crumble in your hands...It's worth a little extra work to mix thoroughly, Good video
I disagree about the post wiggling in the foam and I used it and held stronger after a few hours and it is solid and is still holding six years later.
Great video, thanks for posting. As far as premixing, why not just add water as you pour the cement? I pour half the bag into water at the bottom and then add more in two phases.
Where do you put the Wagos??
It the trash.
I have always used a layering technique for the concrete when setting posts. I add the concrete in 1/4 bag increments, tamping each layer and using a quart of water before adding the next layer. I have never had trouble with a lack of setup. I have never thought to use FlexSeal but I like the idea! I would say it might make more sense to spray the whole section that will be buried though, or at the very least the bottom of the post on the end grain.
You were doing so good right up until you poured the concrete in the hole dry. I've been building fences for over 35 years and I've torn down hundreds of them. My best days are when I realize that the concrete has been poured dry. All it takes is a whack with a sledgehammer and those things come right out. That concrete will never hold. I don't care how many tests you do. I have done more. Pouring the concrete in wet helps it to bond to the post. Fill all the voids and make sure that the chemical reaction in the concrete goes off correctly. Also leaving the concrete a couple of inches below. Grade allows the water that will collect around the post to wick away rather than trying to protect the post from water which already is pressure treated. Good job though, and you're right, it's not structural
Wow, interesting concrete reveal. My fence was built with totally dry concrete in the hole. It was explained to me that ground water would moisten the concrete in the whole after job completed. I live in Florida and there is a lot of rainfall throughout the year. I hope that I wasn’t lied to!