Aside from the MMO FF14, every recent new entry seems to be selling less and less, and beyond things like exclusivity having some negative impact, there's a general sense that Final Fantasy is only appealing to nostalgic fans as constant reinventions like FF16's much different tone and gameplay alienate old fans who feel recent entries have been to much of a departure while being unable to attract new fans from the masses. The inconsistent identity of Final Fantasy has been a topic of discussion and I think one worth exploring. PATREON: www.patreon.com/yongyea TWITTER: twitter.com/yongyea INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/yong_yea TIKTOK: www.tiktok.com/@yongyea TOP PATRONS [BIG BOSS] - Devon B [BOSS] - Gerardo Andrade - Michael Redmond - Phil [PRETTY LEGENDARY] - azalea
@@woaioppai4022 Nintendo and lacking online features popularized back in 2005. Sony and censoring third party games. Sony and ignoring Bloodborne. Microsoft and coming in third place in console sales.
@@yunusgokcen174FF16 is fun, but it's also got a lot of performance and stuttering issues that shouldn't be a thing for a game releasing for PC 1 year later.
@@yunusgokcen174 but my hype is gone and in my free time I play something different now (currently the new zelda and ff14). And like muffin said. Now I can wait longer and buy and play it for 30euro.
The curse of modern audience games and the very fact that they Do Not Sell. Even on consoles that had 117.2 million (PS4) and a 59.3 million (PS5) install base. Keep in mind this was the FF7 Remake that forced bundled its expansion DLC to force a $80 USD price for several year (digitally pc/console). These are not good games. Exclusivity won’t save the FF series, it needs a overhaul and a return to its roots.
games being censored was a thing that and the subject matter taking a sales spin. Seven suffered when it didn't need to be that way. my headspace is: when people found out that 7 was not a remake of the original 1997 game word of mouth spread, then when characters were focused changed in appearance didnt help. they know it too, this is why for their action figure commemoration and 'meme $$' they only had original outfits, protect tifa at all costs!
@@killzone110ad thats an excuse that doesn't work and deflects from the real issue, we do not have an example to date that shows where a game had as much trouble as Square-Enix's games have because of being ball & chained to the PS brand.
@ActionSquintRingo I mean, despite the exclusivity on a old last gen console and a new barely anyone besides scalpers owning console, Remake still had 7 million sales and on the porn side. FF7 has never been more popular, to the point of Tifa become a country's icon for a bit. So I really doubt the "censorship" had much to do with the sales.
They already admitted to cutting their profit potential by taking forever to make a single game at a time and making them single platform exclusive. It's a solvable problem.
And even that if they managed their budgets better by not making stupid games and also not making things that they never intend to release they would be in a better situation.
I get the ps1 game was on 4 different disks but making your game into 4 different parts and making people wait for a decade to get all thr parts is dumb Personally I'm waiting until tgey are done to purchase tge all in one collections edition to then play it No point playing the parts now and waiting years to forget the story when the next part comes out
Censorships and "modern action" its also another problem. If i play a numbering title, i want my party members, not just one playable character with few NPCs lol
Locking a game to a console with a low owner-base and a even lower player-base. Watering down an IP to something that no one really knows what to expect of. Managers being stupid.
And the thing is, despite being hobbled by that, both games still sold really well and far above their internal targets for a hefty profit. But SE wanted them to make ALL of the money because their expectations are based on the games making up for a dozen of SE's failures and terrible investments in other sectors
Low owner base? Low player base? What numbers are you looking at? Millions of people is not low. Square enix's projections are not based in reality either, they expect a 100% purchase rate from the playstation audience.
@@zztzgza Comparatively. There are a lot of numbers out there, but generally Steam has millions of active user above PS. Console exclusives are only tapping less than half of the gaming audience. So yes less than 50% of what you could've expected with multiple platforms is low Also, I don't know where you got the info that they expect 100% sales rate. If they did then all their games must be below expectation
This is why Microsoft stays winning. Because they put their products on multiple platforms. All the gaming doomerism surrounding Xbox is never directed at the real flop: PS.
The problem is Square expects the main FF series to make up for all the bad decisions they make, such as Marvels Avengers, FF Battle Royale, and Forspoken
FF is also on that list it self. They changed from one of the best Party Based RPGs to a low tier Devil May Cry. Fans don't want an action RPG they want a Final Fantasy. And sales will reflect that. More Action is less party. Basic no party or gear in the game now. Bad Game. It cant compete with other Action RPGs and that is what it is. God of War. Elden Ring. Sekiro. Equipment is useless. Party members are useless. Not a Final Fantasy so who is going to buy it? Collectors? and Fans who don't know.
@@dequariusvence8389Did you play 16? It's not a low tier DMC, the combat was made by the DMC guys. Square sniped them from Capcom and let them make the combat. It is absolutely full of FF mumbo jumbo. Sure, the party aspect is gone, but dog. And Jill looks amazing and is the coolest waifu, imo, since Tifa. The worst part about FF16 is the side quest and pacing
@TysonDylan0 Yea, I played. And i had no idea they got the devs from DMC to do it. I think we agree on everything except maybe I shouldn't say 'low tier' and more like reskinned. It just gave a DMC feeling and not FF feeling. I don't think it was a bad game. It's just not a FF main series game. Mainly because of the combat, party systems, and equipment usage or lack thier of. It's like buying a FF game and instead getting a DMC. Or buying NCAA football and getting a college soccer game. Yea, they have schools in it, and 11 players are on the field, but this is not NCAA football. They need another brand for that, like Toyota and Lexus. Mana Series would have been great for it. But, as a FF game... just nah.
@@TysonDylan0 I went in to it having heard that the DMC devs helped with the combat system and I came out disappointed. It *is* a low tier DMC, at least on the first playthrough. I've heard it gets better on NG+ with the higher difficulty, but I have too many other games to play to give it another go. What makes the DMC formula work is that it actively encourages you to maintain long and varied combos and rewards you for doing so, which 16 doesn't (outside of when replaying already completed chapters in arcade mode). I watched combo videos and replicated them to the best of my ability, trying to make the most of the system, but with the simplified moveset and most moves being limited to slots that can only be changed out of combat it still just ended up feeling like there was only a handful combo paths to choose from. Assuming the enemy isn't a big one which actively cannot be comboed and even lives long enough to do a combo on. As much as I tried to mix things up it just felt like the game mostly rewarded pop ulti > win or knock prone > phoenix dash > punish > repeat for small enemies and Big enemies are literally just bring their gauge low > pool all abilities > get the break > pop everything in a predetermined order. Story wise it had some good ideas, but fumbled most of them. Most characters felt emotionally constipated and their interactions were pretty lacking with the exception of a handful of story important ones. The romance with Jill suffered the most because outside of the infirmary and beach scenes they barely felt like acquaintances. Just a sprinkling of travel and combat banter could have done a lot to give us a feel for the party's interpersonal dynamics, as well as remind us that they are even travelling with you to begin with. FF16 is not a bad game, but ultimately I found it pretty bland and forgettable
Experinece as a FF Fan on PC: 1. Timed exclusive on an expensive platform that I have no interest in buying. Delaying PC release for 2 years+. 2. released on PC, and Epic will hold hostage for another 6-12 months. 3. Released on steam, the price is so high that I wait for sales. By then, forgotten about it or moved onto other games. 4.Finally get it on sale. Its a bit of a mess, its ok and other RPGs have surpassed it while waiting for FF on steam. 5. Next installment comes up, starting process over again. 6. PC gamers are now playing RPGs like Elden Ring and Balders Gate 3 made by companies actually care about their customers. With all these delays, standards in games design and customers expect have substantial improved in meantime. Square has delivered an old game, then sqaure suits wonder why burned older FF fans on PC dont care about FF anymore.
Don't forget the clownfest of now not selling the game bundled with the DLC as FF16 did now. Every other PS4/PS5 release ported to PC sold only a complete version. FF16 is still selling the DLc at a premium on PC.
Why so hung up about it? If you want more context, Japanese business world made SE obligated to mention them because it's an easy feather ruffle in that space.
They sold their game exclusively on a console that was only sold to scalpers for nearly 2 years...Scalpers don't buy games. What did they expect? Id buy rebirth on PC if they would ever put it there.
That's a really good point regarding chip shortage/scalpers. You're already limiting sales to a single console but selling to a people that don't even own the console, can't get one or don't want one is obviously going to limit sales. PS5 also misses the mark but that's a different topic.
Didn't Sony just recently state that 50% of their base is still on PS4? Edit: Found an article on Push Square's site that reported that of the 118M active PSN users, 59.3M are PS5 users, suggesting, yes, less than half of PlayStation owners have a PS4. Talk about a shrinking market...
that what I was thinking too, there's a reason why some companies still make their games available on both ps4 &5. Sure it's nice to have the shorter loading speed or the graphic enhancement of the ps5, but that is not enough to make the ps4 obsolete to some people IMO (not counting the console exclusive) they should have made a ps4 version for the game too
Not really an excuse the ps5 actually sold well it depends how many of them were final fantasy fans square has an obvious problem attracting younger fans to the franchise and the loyal fans who are much older have families and work alot and don't have the free time for big ass RPGs
Wrong. The problem is Square-Enix investing too much in follies (NFTs, Live Service slop etc) and expecting two games to miraculously make up the difference in cost
Another problem is people still scalping PlayStation 5 sales. The very company itself wants to try to sell PlayStation 5 for $700 to $800 bucks. There are still a lot of people who cannot afford to buy a PlayStation 5 even when it was back at premiere pricing. I've got the money for it but I can't afford to spend it right now due to other concerns where my money should go.
@@conor6436 Then they should start releasing Final fantasy on xbox or on other consoles and pc as they gonna blunder it all and go bankrupt if nothing is done. Square enix cannot keep on going on these bad blunders and keep thinking that Final fantasy is gonna keep them alive.
also the reviews of FF16 , though good, dissappointed some FF RPG fans because it is more of an action game and while rebirth itself was good, some people who played the ff7 remake did not like the direction it was going as it was not a 1:1 remake from the original FF7 so they decided not to continue playing the sequel.
No, it's our fault for not buying another overpriced console. Not theirs, for pointlessly limiting their customer base. It could 'never' be their fault, the onus is on us, naturally. It's our responsibility...no...our DUTY...to buy their scalped-to-hell-and-back console to be afforded the honour...no...the privilege of buying their games. It's our fault, we have failed them, as customers.
@@syed2694 Imagine thinking that's grounds for wasting several hundred dollars on a console that doesn't have games that aren't or won't be available on PC. All the money you waste on a console, you can put into a PC. If consoles didn't cost an arm and a leg and were futureproof, more people would buy them. Get over yourself and use critical thinking for once in your life.
Capcom sell 3-4 million copies of a new Resident Evil game: We're really happy! Thanks to all the players who supported us! Square Enix sell 3-4 million copies of a new Final Fantasy game: 😭
cause Capcom shoves microtransactions into it, selling small is fine if it makes people by mtx after which it does, that's the trick of their "goodwill" its manipulative
It depends on how much budget they spend on the games. Resident Evils games might have lower budgets, so a lower number of sales can still make them profits.
@@marcusclark1339 I've played and beat Resident Evil 2, 3, 4 & 8, Devil May Cry 5, Monster Hunter World/Iceborne/Rise and Dragon's Dogma 2 and didn't buy a single MTX. Nobody I know did either. Never felt the need for any of them so I wouldn't personally describe them as manipulative. If people choose to purchase them that's up to them and I'm sure plenty do but I bet Capcom make a nice profit selling 3-4 million copies of a game at day one full price anyway due to the budgets they work with.
@@MaidenlessScrub Yeah so the problem is Square having unrealistic expectations and out of control budgets/production cycles. Final Fantasy is still more than popular enough they just need to organise themselves better.
@@grifinorange me too. I played remake. It soured the experience so I played the original instead and felt better for it. I dislike the idea of it being a trilogy with a bunch of filler crap, and a altered story line. Graphics and gameplay may be decent but it's not ff7. At best it's a action RPG with a ff7 skin.
@@khirasier I am not surprised tbh from what I saw of the game I didn't look very spectacular. It also looked like a action open world RPG with a clean coat of FF7 sprayed on top.
let the kids play with their pitch forks,dont spoil their fun. Its hot to shit on Sony,while the same people beging Sony to fund the FF7 Reboot/Remake since ps3. A quick google search will tell you that for the past 10 years square is NEVER happy about anything.
That was the Former President used to say. But considering his bold face lies, his opinion doesn’t age well because it’s currently the best-selling game in the series. Crystal Dynamics would’ve been upset with Square’s President and should’ve walked away from the Square Enix acquisition of both Eidos Interactive (Now Eidos Montreal) and Crystal Dynamics. it’s simple: Square doesn’t like Western developers.
man they made the "did not meet expectations" when their games jumped from making low tens of millions to the higher end of HUNDREDS of millions. These are months old bulshit claims that SE is repeating after waiting a while after they were laughed at for making the same claim before. Both games sold well above their average internal targets and made a huge profit. These "expectations" are from executives who intentionally stacked it higher and delusionally hoped both games would sell so much that it would make up for all the multiple other fuck ups and failures Square Enix has made in other sectors. The first time they claimed that, that number would not have been reached even if every ps5 owner at the time would have bought FFXVI
yeah they were. Tomb raider actually sold twice as well as there FF games, yet they didn't sell well enough and they sold the ip. Nice choice there SE lol. There so stupid
The point is timed exclusive is main the problem because their real Fans " console players" and everyone else knew it gonna be on PC anyway The fact PC player is not their market and why bother to sell it to them , Now they're getting what they deserve
I really, really want to buy FFVII Rebirth! I'm not buying a PS5 to play it though. I have both a pretty damn good PC and a Steam Deck sitting right there.
I got bored with FF16 as the combat didn't feel deep and was repetitive so I stopped probably 15-20 hours in. I might go back to FF7 Rebirth, but while it started out great it got clearer later on that the game was padded pretty hard and not only got boring, but worse started to overstay its welcome and is starting to feel just grindy without substance. I like the base FF7 story and am interested in where they take the new version, but I have to get through the rest of Rebirth first. I don't mind the new action format of FF7R, but they need to rethink the balance. They also really need to rethink the busy-work aspect and not keep padding for the sake of padding. They could have made this new FF7 story 2 games easy.
I recommend you try at least FF XII. This game is active time battle based, like the older titles. They just did hide it better, to reach a "broader audience". Get the zodiac edition. Has also the most mature story of all FF titles. You would miss out not playing it. Avoid FF XIII like the plaque is is, though. And FF XV is definitely not made for you, though.
Bravely Default started development as a Final Fantasy game before becoming it's own thing and is honestly more Final Fantasy than FF has been in ages. I can warmly recommend it and it's sequels even if the first game suffers a bit from a long repetitive section (can't say more without spoiling though)
They're not ever making a turn based FF again. Every interview transcript is them saying they hated turn based and it was a limitation of the technology at the time and they want to move away from it forever.
@@syed2694 and that’s exactly why the series will continue to fall. JRPG fans MADE final fantasy, and now square hate JRPGs? Then that means they hate making money.
They have been alienating and ignoring their core fanbase for over 2 decades, catering to people that don't like turn based games, that were never fans to begin with. It's like Fromsoft starts to catering to people that don't like difficult games. What you end up getting is a bland game that chases trends that were popular 10 years ago. If FF16 wasn't called FF I probably would have no idea that it was a new mainline entry. And I would like the game more if it wasn't called FF. Square never manged to cultivate a worthy successor to Sakaguchi so all the guys that have come afer him had no clue what FF is. In their mind it was all relative as long as you have a guy named Cid and Chocobos it's FF. Turns out that it isn't. You reap what you sow. At this point I don't care for FF anymore, waiting for FFVIIR part 3 cause I want to see the conclusion but after that the franchise can die for all I care. I mean, it has been dead for 20+ years we were just coping.
I Personally loved 13(I know I know lol) but the last great one was X which is my personal favourite in the series along with 7. 15 and 16 were really REALLY BAD for FF games
I'm with you. My all time favorite developer growing up. I adored their games. I'm now a cynical adult gamer having watched square and several other favorite developers be corrupted by the curse of publicly traded shares
@@phillystevesteak6982 That's just the way things go I guess. Devs come up with a hit, get too big for their own good and the downfall starts. Only for Square it's been a slow and painful downfall to experience as a fan. Goof thing is there are always new devs with the good stuff so I'm not complaining on that front, it's just I loved Square so much man. Still do, as much as dissatisfied ill probably buy FFXVII day one and proceed to shit on it online 😂
@@hotcoldman77 I actually liked most of the FFs, XIII included. Visually it's one of my favourites. I absolutely loved XII but I would love it even more if it was called "The Tales of Ivalice: Zodiac Age" or whatever and not Final Fantasy XII. It's not an FF game. Too many building blocks of the franchise went out of the window, it doesn't deserve the name Final Fantasy. Imho. It's a great JRPG not a great FF, in my book at least. So yeah I have lots of mixed feelings about post X era of FFs. I just wanna see what Square can do in that classic format of FF with all of the advancements in technology and turn based mechanics.
Rebirth - Old fans disappointed by them making multiverse "fanfiction" instead of faithful retelling already perfect story while newcomer might be turned off by the convoluted story 16 - Old fans disappointed by them making the game into "DMC clone" instead maintaining the "party based" and RPG elements of the series while newcomer might be turned off the convulated story
I thought about playing the original game, as I haven´t play it. But I didn´t wanted to spoil the story for the Remake. But playing the remake was dissapointing in this regard, because it looked like knowing the original story would be actually better for enjoying it, so you are right
@@suc125 nice thing about the original, no matter what "modern" console you have, you can still buy it on it's digital storefront for a song, even on steam
5:33 I severely doubt that 'the only people buying the FF games now are crusties'. All of the crusties that I know, myself included, are extremely pissed-off by the direction the series has gone in. Remake got a huge nostalgia-based sales boost simply by virtue of what it was, (or at least was _purporting_ to be) which has then clearly fallen off with Rebirth after people got their nostalgia fix and realised what S-E was doing with the story - that's clear, but otherwise, nah. The reality is S-E has alienated and lost what should have been its core consumers because of two decades of underperformance of the single-player games. The core FF player these days is a FFXIV player who might dabble a bit in the single player games. The series has no core single player base.
Pretty much this. The last mainline FF i bought was XIII, the last FF i played was World of Final Fantasy which despite it´s flaws was a great call back to older FF titles. I haven´t enjoyed a mainline FF since X that came out over 20 years ago. Square has been chasing the western RPG and Normie crowd so hard that they alienated their original fans who like their games turn-based or some kind of ATB. The crowd is still there they just went on to play other games like Persona/SMT or the Trails-series because despite what SE might think graphics aren´t everything if the rest of your games feel hollow and unpolished.
As a person who is also a FF lifer, I disagree and most of the crowd that I talk to all don't mind the direction of the games have gone. If anything has suffered, it has been the stories.
But isnt that what final fantasy is as a franchise? Its always evolving and trying out new things. Each game offers a different experience. If it stayed the same then ppl would just complain and compare it to ubisoft games and how they never change.
@@hassaankhan1763 they keep gameplay the mostly the same but change up progression systems and side quest. FF isn't even a yearly series you can keep the same concept but change up other things in the game.
@@midwestylethere definitely seems to be a very vocal minority. If ff7 remake series wasn’t PS exclusive then square wouldn’t complain about sales for sure. The issue of the remake series most definitely isn’t quality, not one bit. It has been a blast playing through the first two games and for me it’s not even nostalgia because I didn’t grow up playing 7. I played 7 for the first time sometime in 2018.
Exactly. From 1-10, we got turn base turn or ATB and party system. From 11-16 we got inconsistent gameplay, no party and MMO...at this point noone knows what they will try next with 17
Thats bull. FF has always had different systems and setups for each numbered title. Its always experimented and shifted around in some significant manner. Be it mechanics or its story and setting.
Yeah PS2 era of Final Fantasy was kind of a mixed bag for me so much so I didn't pick up a new Final Fantasy until I bought into the road trip hype of XV and after the first chapter I fell off the game fast. I went back in for Rebirth and though I didn't hate it I'm not edger to play two more full games to finish the newish story. Also PC player now so yeah that's a barrier even if I was super hyped for every Final Fantasy.
@@tenjenkEach entry have different customization system. As a core gameplay, the first 10 games have same basic combat gameplay and exploration mechanics
lol Their prices are out of this world on every single game. Pixel Remastered.... 70$+ Kingdom Hearts series that I bought ofr ps4 for 15$ they want 100+ for in digital ON THE CLOUD and I could keep listing them. They are fucking greedy.
I think that censorships and that action stuff its a problem, its like i going to eat at McDonald and they give me a hot dog, maybe Fantasian will teach them a lesson.
I mean that's what they get releasing it years after when interest has gone down ... I'm a good example where I was so excited to wait for ffxvi to come out for PC and honestly I was surprised that it released this month.... I actually forgot about the game lol
Considering the production costs nowadays, making a AAA title a timed exclusive for a console (in this case it was PS5) is not the best idea. FFXVI lost the momentum because of that. Additionally I'm not interested in playing a game that has a very bad optimized port for PC and has even DENUVO in it to make it worse.
Dude can we get the mythbusters to do a benchmark on this? Some people will say it did absolutely nothing while others will claim it melted their PCs and killed their mothers in the process.
@@grayrodent8232It's hard to effectively test it. You can onpy see the effect of Denuvo on weaker pc's while the more powerful ones won't be effected.
What’s funny about this is that there’s been plenty of feedback from the consumers about what they’d like and they’ve consistently failed to deliver. One example of this is Dragon Quest X. When they created the offline version a couple of years ago, it was the perfect time to release to an international market but instead, they kept it exclusive to Japan again.
They've tried so hard to make games for a Western audience, and it backfired. Meanwhile, Atlus has been kicking their asses for over a decade just by being themselves.
This notion, they shouldn't appeal to a western audience, bruh, their biggest market IS THE WEST! Good look at their FY23 report for yourself and see how stupid of a comment that is. But for a second, listen to what your asking for, appeal to what? An Eastern audience? That IS their problem! They make games with a eastern audience in mind, ship it off globally and, shocker, no one bites, or at least not enough do. It's that that's killing them off; you're a Japanese dev making a game for Japanese audience and thinking that Japanese deisgn is appealing globally. It isn't and it hasn't for a while now. Instead, maybe make your games for a GLOBAL audience! Have ideas and style that appeals to everyone. Do that homework and figure your shit out, because the same old same old, is boring.
@sharpester7277 atlus also doesn't spend nearly as much making their games though. All things considered though Sega did have to buy them to save them from bankruptcy. Its a different thing altogether. Square is unfortunately padded with a bunch of directors that want to chase current trends instead of the mindset that final fantasy was built on. When final fantasy 9 it wasn't created with the mindset that it was going to push the limit of realism it was creates to be a fun enjoyable experience. During production sure the director had to deal with the death of his mother which effected some of the story directions. But the point wasn't to chase what was popular. Turn based games are not something of the past, while I do like the ff7 reboot I am tired of the fact that final fantasy is being turned into this franchise that needs to pad out its story instead of creating enjoyable stories its just padding them out and making them long with simplistic mechanics that don't compliment and engage it. A long story isn't always a good one.
FF16, PS5 only sold 3 million in a week P3R, PS4/PS5, PC, and Xbox sold 1 million in a week. P3R was also Atlus's best selling game. So, please explain how they are kicking their asses.
How about stop making games 70 dollars :) Edit: anyone in the comments defending the price just know The most successful games of the last couple years are either free to play or 60 dollars People like u guys are defending greedy companies who are eventually gonna try and up charge us on these games up to 100 dollars and prices are gonna get ridiculous. If u need to make more money from your game make dlc and cosmetics the game doesn’t have to be more than 60 dollars
As a third world player who has FF IX as my favorite game of all time , I had to skip all the ps2 and ps3 ff games, cause I had my ps2 stolen, and never got a ps3 cause it was expensive as fuck, I bought a ps4 in expectation for FFXV and FFVII remake, after a lot of delays I got to play XV, and while I enjoyed it, it was obvious that it was flawed, vii remake was better, but I only could play the ps4 part as I became a pc gamer. Now shit is going better and I grabbed myself a 7800 XT, but cames the same problem, time exclusivity. After skipping the rest of the vii remake parts I was waiting a year for XVI, dodging all news trying to avoid spoilers at all costs, which I managed to pull, but I couldn't browse for FF news or xvi reviews in the meantime. I'm quite enjoying it actually, the story is so good, the gameplay not so much but there's no big issue with that, I have no issues with performance cause my graphics card cost the same than a ps5 and is a couple generations newer. But I get why people is mad, console exclusivity is fucking harsh man, and waiting a year for a "runs like shit" game sounds awful. It's sad seeing a franchise you love dying like this, when they finally are doing entertaining games again. But I'm in doubt if square deserves our help
I mean yeah, I've been saying this for a while. Final Fantasy as a brand is lacking a clear identity right now, and I'm going to say it. It is 100% because they deviated too far from the ATB and turned based combat systems. The turn based combat, coupled with the incredible stories that they told, WAS the Final Fantasy identity. I am by no means saying they should go back to that though, because frankly it's too late for that. Everyone's ideas of what a Final Fantasy game is varies wildly now due to extreme deviations. Some want pure action like 16, some want pure turned based to come back, and some want a blend of the two. Some want simpler stories, but others want the complexity of timeline shenanigans like Rebirth. Some want the darker Game of Thrones kind of tone in entries like 16, while others want the more light-hearted anime vibes of Rebirth. This franchise has no consistency in its identity at all anymore, and because of the wildly various expectations people have of these games, I don't know how it can be fixed at this point because of how often the devs of these games feel the need to reinvent the wheel with every game.
This is just silly. The new gameplay is extremely well received. While its not for everyone, neither is turn based or ATB. There will always be people who dont like certain choices, but if its done well the audience will be there.
@@ohjay7612 It doesn't really matter if it's well received or not. The problem with Final Fantasy is it once had a distinct identity, and now it really doesn't. Really, the fact that the new styles have been well received, in a way, just makes the problem worse, because now fans of the new games will go on to expect this new approach going forward, while a decent portion still want the Final Fantasy they knew to come back. But then Final Fantasy introduced gameplay styles that deviated even more, and now you have two groups in the fandom who aren't happy, but creating yet another new group of people saying they like this approach and want it going forward. Basically, Final Fantasy fans are horrendously split between what they believe makes up the true gameplay style of Final Fantasy. Many want ATB or turn based. Others want a mix of ATB and action, others want pure action, others want the auto-battle system of XIII. Many want to control a party of characters, while others prefer controlling one and letting AI take the others. There's no clear identity of what Final Fantasy gameplay is anymore. When you play a Souls game, you generally know what kind of game you're getting into, albeit with some improvements or unique ideas to spice it up. With modern Final Fantasy, however, anything goes now. Unless you watch the trailers and keep up with gaming news, you won't know what the newest entry will be like gameplay wise. And that is a significant problem, and I believe it's the primary issue facing this franchise. The only people who are really buying Final Fantasy games now are the old fans who grew up with the series. It's not growing it's base, and sales have been progressively getting worse with each release, and that is a huge problem for the franchise. The only modern Final Fantasy game that's getting a ton of attention and love from in and out of the fan base across the board is 14, which has shown to be the closest thing people associate to what a Final Fantasy is. There's a reason why so many people say 10 was the last worthwhile SINGLE player entry, it's easy to see why people feel that way. The single player Final Fantasy games are in desperate need of a clear identity of their own merits, that doesn't need to piggyback on nostalgia. And yes, regardless of how well received Rebirth has been, it is just as guilty of ALL of this. It has all the same problems I just talked about that have been plaguing this franchise for decades now. Not even the almighty FF7 Rebirth is good enough to fix these issues, ESPECIALLY considering it still piggybacks off of nostalgia by being a reimagining of an older Final Fantasy game. Now if Square Enox wants to take the gameplay style of Rebirth and continue to build upon that and push that style into a new entry with a new story with new characters, that. MIGHT work in stepping in the right direction. Key word being MIGHT work.
@@Nosidda This just isnt true. FF games have always evolved and built on ideas and gameplay. 16 is the only one that is a very major departure from everything else, but thats an exception. Rebirth is their latest game and its not some insanely out there game relative to other entries. 16 simply broke peoples brains and now they act like every entry is a 180 degree turn from the last and its not so.
@@ohjay7612 Rebirth does not feature the traditional ATB turn based combat system. It's a mixture of ATB elements in an combat system that still prioritizes real time action. Is that closer to traditional systems than 16? Yes, but that doesn't deter from the fact that focusing on reactionary action based systems over turn based strategy is still a massive departure from the type of gameplay that the series was once primarily known for. And every single player entry after 13 is guilty of this gameplay departure. 15, 16, Remake, and Rebirth are all guilty of it. Now the consequences of these departures are coming home to roost. Modern FF is unrecognizable compared to the series golden age, from gameplay, story, character design, etc. And it also doesn't help that the single player entries are no longer telling stories that live up to the expectations set by the series past. Even if you go in expecting that they can't tell stories as legendary as 9 or 7, they still aren't amazing stories for the most part. They are heavily flawed. I'm sorry, but once you've opened the door to infinite timelines and multiverses (aka FF7 Remake and Rebirth) that's when it becomes clear that you're out of ideas. The Final Fantasy series as a whole needs a complete and total identity overhaul. Their current direction isn't working. And more than anything, Square has to figure out what exactly makes a Final Fantasy game. The online fan wars about what a Final Fantasy game is proves that this franchise is in an identity crisis. Only dedicated fans are buying the games, and even they don't truly know what they really want from Final Fantasy.
@@Nosidda I know what I want from Final Fantasy, and it is everything Rebirth successfully delivered. So don't go on saying "even they don't truly know what they really want from Final Fantasy" as if you're speaking for everyone. There are people online who are blown away by Rebirth's quality.
To be fair, most FF games were exclusive to one system for most of it's life. FF1-6 only on Nintendo and FF7-12 only on Playstation. Wasn't till 13 came out that it finally released on multiple consoles at the same time. That said, yeah, it would be smarter for them to just release them on as many platforms as possible.
@@TheBlargMarg AAAs are too damn big, the companies need to pull back the scale which would lower costs. Rebirth could have been out a year or more sooner if it wasn't for all the side stuff and mini games. Queens gambit was plenty. No nee for the frog jumping, Mr dolphin ir any of the other one of things that were put in to pad it out.
Bring back turn based, or turn based-like (ATB System, ect). There are hordes of action games that do it so much better, we don't need final fantasy to crappier version of them.
trails series keeps itself to its roots. a turn based jrpg game. and from then on they keep improving upon their original idea that they were able to improve upon the idea of turn based jrpg into something modern and fun. tho they pretty much gave up balancing the combat and its more like a fun to break game than a challenging one. with a lot of modifications, tools and gameplay mechanics... its still very enjoyable game despite the lack of challenge.
I think the the issue is that Square is trying to milk Final Fantasy with very high expectations to make up for the bad performances of other games they published in recent years. Baldur's Gate 3 and Persona 5 are proof that turn based games are not dead and people will play them if it is fun and engaging. And that's what Final Fantasy used to be: a fun and engaging turn based game. They can retain the original fans and capture new fans if Square makes Final Fantasy what it was best known for, and release them on all platforms day one, optimized. Side note: I'm still waiting for a Final Fantasy Tactics remaster/port to Steam.
Yeah, can’t put that much weight on your mess ups in other IPs. They however take a long time for FF7 and KH3 development. It’s good, but needs to live up to it. I think most enjoy the active combat these days which is done well compared to FF15. That was a yikes. 😬
Persona 5 is a bad example. It made money because it had a relatively low budget, making up for it with its stylish art direction. But sales wise it was still pretty niche. Whenever Atlus talks about P5 sales numbers, they always include the sales of all spinoffs to show numbers that are at least close to the sales numbers expected from a AAA game. That's not exactly a good sign, specially considering there are like 3 or 4 P5 spinoff games depending on how you count. If P5 was really as successful as you say it is, it wouldn't need to do such a slide of hand. The only way for Square is to severely reduce budgets for the FF series, with a severe downgrade in graphic quality and presentation. Which even leaving aside how humiliating that'd likely be for them, I don't believe for a second fans would accept that.
@@XanderVJ Or they could spend less time developing mini-games. I'm one of the whackos that actually likes FF mini-games, but they do add a lot of them and i imagine that bit by bit the development cost for them starts to add up. Probably not signficantly enough to be a major factor, but still an area that's safe to cut some costs.
@@XanderVJ "The only way for Square is to severely reduce budgets for the FF series, with a severe downgrade in graphic quality and presentation. Which even leaving aside how humiliating that'd likely be for them, I don't believe for a second fans would accept that." Seeing how many people rejected Stranger of Paradise by visuals alone (saying it "looks like a PS3 game") as well as dragging FF16 for looking like FF14 (given the same team/names are behind both 14 and 16), you're right.
How could that happens after they made FF7 remake, rebirth and FF16 Playstation exclusive? I'm shocked! By the time they release on the other platforms, most people have already lost interest.
My last FF games was XII; I liked it a lot, but it was so different that I changed from buying each at launch to waiting for reviews. I bought FF7R on a Steam sale to try it, and did not like all the changes they made. It feels like "Final Fantasy" is another IP that got acquired by some corporation that thinks it's worth money and it just spewing out product without care for what appeals to fans.
The gameplay is dope, and a big improvement. Turn based gameplay was not the selling point for FF7. The characters, setting, score, story, materia system, volume of content. That is what made it great.
The original fans are the only thing keeping it alive. I have played and beaten every mainline FF game since 3 and I have no problem with the directions of the game (other than 15 but that game was DOA).
The guy mentioned in the video is correct. Final Fantasy fans are getting old with less time to game, so when they do buy a game they are aware that whatever game they chose to buy means there are other games they will not have time to try.
@@execdecision2647 It was for me. FF 1-6 were turn based rpg so I bought ff7 knowing it was a jrpg. I like to play a good turn based rpg with a descent story as turn based I can relax and take my time playing the game. I don't want every game action pack or fps . I can even walk on a tread mill playing a jrpg. Not so easy with an action game.
The ff7 remake spit directly into the faces of every fan who just wanted to relive their favorite ff game in a modern era. So F them. I'm not playing any of their remakes.
They destroyed the story. Completely. They butchered Tifa's character and obliterated Cloud. Its disgusting. With what i have seen so far from remake, there will never be a scene where Tifa help him in the stream to get himself back together. That was soul bonding to the fucking extreme. They completely killed that couple. And that's what we all wanted to see.
@@celuiquipeut6527 I honestly really enjoyed most aspects of the original story. I was so excited to relive them with voice acting and good graphics. The combat was alright looking. But they literally decided they wanted to do what they wanted and fans be dawned.
With 7 I'd bet many people are waiting for the game to be complete before touching it. Sales may decline further though as it is becoming obvious that it isn't what was promised. It's more a fanfiction than what it was claimed to be originally.
I really dont know why they're trying so hard to distance themselves from what made them successfull, turn by turn jrpg. They're not even jrpgs anymore and even though FF7 remake is nice and fun, it doesn't have the same magic as the original, not to mention most episodic medium goes downward after the first one. They're kinda like ubisoft lately, they don't listen to what their fans want and keep digging their own grave.
@@smidlee7747 exactly, I don't feel the "magic" anymore playing FFs games (at least the new ones 15 and 16). And it used to be one of my favorite franchises up until the 13 saga, which is when I think they started going down. Replaying the OG games from time to time and I still enjoy every playthrough, still hoping for the FF9 remake to be good.
It's the same as the no one wants single player games thing that was going around a while back. Chasing fads and trying to convince themselves that the old shit doesn't work. Then something like persona or bg3 or any of the other fantastic turn based game that have cone out in the past couple years proce them wronf
@@ohjay7612 it was still turn by turn in the 13 saga since you had to load ATB bars to perform actions. Even OG FF7 had the option to use active time battle. You're absolutely right when I say they aren't jrpgs anymore I'm speaking about 15 and 16, FF7 remake although flawed was a breath of fresh air in recent years.
"Why aren't we making money??? ;-;" Here we go: Final Fantasy XVI took 7 years to release and XV was left unfinished. No matter how good that game is, the fact that I might not get XVII this DECADE is going to cause problems for the series. Kingdom Hearts 3 was one giant tease, and we've had very little news on 4, not even a sliver of a release date. Dragon Quest 12 is basically in the Shadow Realm, no one knows where it is, and it's been over 7 years. FF7 Remake Trilogy, 4 years between entries AND platform exclusive to a system that was heavily scalped for the first 2-3 years. I wonder why they're not printing money, hmm?
Ever since I discovered the Trails series I've had no desire to go back to playing Final Fantasy. Side note, I think I saw Yong Yea's name in Reverie's credits, much to my pleasant surprise.
@@kevinramirez3134 Makes sense, as the whole series so far has finally been translated for Western audiences, when for the longest time it was only in Japanese. It's hard to put it into a single comment, but the main contrast with Final Fantasy is that each Trails game is in a continuous story arc and has maintained its identity, while Final Fantasy rarely has actual sequels or continuations, and when it does, they aren't really good (though my only experience with that is Final Fantasy X-2).
Same there are too many good turn-based games out there to play the action RPG slop that SE has been producing for the last 10 years. You can literally see the Trails series getting more popular as the releases get closer and closer despite a lot of text needing to be translated from japanese into english. Same goes for Persona/SMT
I miss the job/class system the older games used. Tactics was FANTASTIC given its gameplay and is almost foreign in comparison to any other FF due to that. I never played the MMOs, but I also liked X and XII as bridges to the action style the current games are doing. Unfortunately, I remember XIII's being an oversimplified straight line path through level ups.
Imo Final Fantasy X-2 was the last decent mainline Final Fantasy game made. from 11 to current changed so much i has a longtime fan do not acknowledge them has cannon hell for that matter i don't even acknowledge them as Final Fantasy games.
@@gligarguy4010 Yes and thus highlight another issue, when Dragon quest feels more like final fantasy than actual final fantasy you know you done fucked up. DQXI is a fantastic game that keeps turn based elements but modifies how encounters are handled in the right way. Yes i get that random encounters are not really a thing for RPG's anymore but at least DQXI balanced things by staying modern while retaining what made the dragon quest series so good.
@@fredy2041 Look I am all favor of trying new things but Final fantasy had a great battle mechanic that improved upon the turn based system over time. While FF I-V had a more dragon quest like turn based system FFV and up evolved the formula into something far better.
I actually like action-based when I heard the final fantasy series went to it I was excited about it but then I found out it wasn't multiplayer or even co-op I know I'm not the typical fan from the series I'm somebody from the outside that looked at it and recognized it was polished cared to give it a try But had different standards
If you follow the same formula on every game like Assassin's Creed then it becomes boring. If you try to make a different game and introduce new mechanics per release you lack identity. Seriously this generation of spoiled gamer brats is starting to annoy me.
and it still is. the FF games sold well. SE's expectations are based on the games somehow making up for all their multiple failures and terrible investments in other sectors. They are aiming for infinite profit margin growth and no game no matter how good or how well it sells can match up to that. Every person on the planet can buy it and next quarter their expectations will be for everyone to buy it 4 times.
Death stranding didn’t do as well as Kojima hoped but he still making death stranding 2. Rebirth was my game of the year I bet you in the long term many people will be talking about it.
Except that, for a long time, they were all turn base JRPGs, from 1 to 10 and even including 13... The "lack of identity" started with FF11 being an MMO
@@dorayaki5494just now starting to annoy you? My brother in Christ, PC/ gamers in general are the whinnest people you'll ever meet. Look at what happened with stellar blade? Or PC release of God of war. I'm to the point where I'm almost agreeing with the company's actions nowadays. loool
FF is one of my favorite franchises of all time but it pretty much ended for me after XIII. I bought both FF VII remakes but they're honestly just ok. I haven't even finished Rebirth. I'd rather play traditional RPGs like Sea of Stars but when I do want an ARPG I'll play Souls games. To me, those are the new standard. (Stranger of Paradise is horrible)
I hate what they did to the story in Final Fantasy remake. Killed all my interest in future projects. If they stayed true to the original story without introducing all this fate and destiny bull I would have bought the game for all my brothers just so they could experience the story I love. But they had to ruin it…
Final fantasy has jumped the shark for me. I loved the old ff games i played, and liked up to 13. I absolutely want to love the 7 redo... but it really struck me that i haven't been able to finish 7 remake. I just kind of lose interest a bunch of hours in and by then another game I'm more interested in comes out (baldurs gate etc) so i pause and when i try to come back it's like... I'm not having as much fun as i had with the og ff7 even though i actually liked the new story and characterization more. I loved 7 so much i absolutely wanted to like the redo but... I'd rather play the old game. If they'd updated the graphics and expanded the story and kept the old mechanics and world... i wonder what the sales would have been? It's not like i don't enjoy action games, i love nier automata, elden ring, dragons dogma, etc, but FF doesn't hit that action sweet spot for me nor does it give me the og vibes i one loved so instead it's just... mid.
I finished 7 Remake, loved it to death. I've not bought Rebirth yet though. I can't tell why. Maybe it's because I quit FF14 on a bitter note, so I want to take a break from FF for a while? Dunno
Yep, that's how i feel. I like action rpgs, but FF pivoting to action as opposed to turn based combat left me with a sour taste in my mouth. I knew when FF XV came out, it was time to walk away and pass the torch. I'm getting my fix of turn based rpgs with the Bravely series and Octopath. I've still got the older versions of FF to play when i feel nostalgic xD
15? Controversial and deemed incomplete (like MGSV and its missing ending) Remake? Controversial, veering too far from the source material and feeling bloated at times due to its stretching a 5-6 hour segment into 40+ hours. No shit the sequels to both of these controversial titles aren’t gonna do as well. I bought 15 and Remake. Didn’t buy the sequels because 16 just didn’t interest me enough and Remake left a bad taste in my mouth for Rebirth
They didn't stick to origin of the game. I guess they wanted to expand and milk it. I felt betrayal by them. They have remaster normally from other game they did but they twisted later on and censer some content.
A very depressing fact is that they will never try this ever again. Maybe we will get something fan made some day, and with great audio already recorded, maybe it would be possible to botch something together on a PC.
I feel like FF16, because they just flat cut out so many rpg systems and has really boring side content and super bosses only via dlc, it definitely was a game that A LOT of people just watched someone else playing through for the story experience instead of buying it themselves. At the end of the day, that was the only thing left in the game with all the shallow systems, which a FF usually innovates on. For Rebirth: I know many people don't want to hear it, but it is just simply SUCH a divisive title. As a fan you either HATE it or love it after how the Remake ending turned out and how the beloved story was being changed... The Remake hype was carried by every FF fan under the sun and after it was done, there was fans abolishing the series completely. It shouldn't have been that alienating and stupid in (re)writing. Add exclusivity and all that jazz on top and I simply can't imagine how you can be so delusional to think those entries would be instant smash successes.
i dont really mind the changes to the story, the gameplay is pure ass though, they shouldve made it either completely turn-based or a full on hack and slash rpg style but that weird ass inbetween they went with led to just god awful combat, i only got through FF7R because i wanted to experience the story modernized, and now im waiting for rebirth to come to pc cause im not paying $700 for a ps5 and especially not paying $1360 for a ps5 pro, at that point id just got buy a better gpu for my pc. im glad the rumours for the FF9 remake are saying its gonna remain turn based, especially since ff9 was a homage to the OG ff games
@@Tyrbris Yes it was due to their boneheaded idea of making movies. They should´ve stuck to games. The Final Fantasy movie was such an epic flop that Enix bought Squaresoft otherwise the company and Final Fantasy would´ve been dead.
Square Enix needs to stop making all their games PS5 exclusive at launch. That console was heavily scalped and went through a chip shortage and Final Fantasy fans are mostly on PC now where their main MMO is, and on top of all that console sales are in huge decline in Japan. Whatever Sony is paying them isn't enough.
Yeah, me and my stepbrother waited at least two years to get one because we weren't paying scalper prices. He was a console-only gamer before the PS5 debacle. Eventually he got a PC, ironically spending more than the PS5 costs, and just started gaming there. Now he has no interest in a PS5 even though prices dropped and I can't blame him. They really messed up with ninth gen, now everyone PC games.
It's very simple. Stop taking out the fricken rp in the damn rpg. It's literally that simple. All my friends and I refused to play ff16 bc if I wanted action, I'd play the other 100s of actions games. So I know I'm not alone in this. My take at least.
Because gamers take their favorite franchises for granted. They think it's always going to be around and they can just nit pick every little detail endlessly because no matter what they will make another one. The problem is they are essentially communicating to these studio's that they dont want this anymore. They will ruin their own desires. In 10 years they will be asking themselves why they stopped making Final Fantasy games.
Burnt out. Final Fantasy Tactics is my all time favorite game followed by FF8 and FF7. Over the years I've become jaded. I played FF7 Remake and it was meh to me. I had no interest in playing Rebirth after that. I'm a long time fan and I just don't care to play any more Final Fantasy games.
@@Lithenius I think putting the blame on the players is kinda silly, to be honest, and implies that loyalty to a series is more important than the developers of the series actually making games you want to play. It's not "fans" who are at fault if a game series stops appealing to them, so they stop buying it, and it dies: it's the devs (likely the suits behind them to be fair) who make the choices that lead to the fans losing enthusiasm. Literally the only tool that works for "consumers" to alter markets is to vote with our wallets. Buying games we don't like out of brand loyalty just tells companies it's okay to exploit us and ignore what we want, because they're certainly not concerned about forum posts or TH-cam comments.
As someone who has a PS5 and have played a lot of old FF games, the problem for me is the writing in all honesty. FF7 is my fav game of all time. The original, not the remake. And while I enjoy the gameplay, the writing and the world is what got me hooked. But as the presentation of the games get better I expect more from them. An old rpg with blocky graphics and goofy characters, the goofy dialogue comes across different and doesn't bother me. But in FF7 remake so much of it is so cringy. I'll prolly get FF7 rebirth and ff16 eventually for cheap in my local used game store, but I'm in no hurry to spend 70 dollars on them....
Even if they released on all platforms, people don't generally enjoy a mix of action and rpg that ends in both elements being catastrphically watered down to below the minimum expectations for each genre.
I am worried about them touching anymore of my memories. FF6 is a very specialgame for me and the best FF in my book. They would definatly wokify the game and change the story. Just like they did with remake. I dont want them to do that.
I've played every FF up until 13 (11 didn't play though) at least twice with 12 being kind of its own case, but haven't played more than once F13 and none any of the later entries. It's just too much different from the series I fell in love with in the 90s and mid 2000s.
First of all making them exclusive at launch was always a terrible idea, second of all, I refuse to buy a 70 dollar game, and if I can't play it at launch for 60 I may as well wait until it's inevitably half price.
To be fair ff7 rebirth is one of the rare games worth the 70 dollar price tag. Has a 40 hour main story and tons of side content and minigames. There is so much stuff put into that game. Its crazy how they got it out in 3-4 years
@@hassaankhan1763 There are RPGs that are 50 to 100 hours of main story content that didn't launch at 70 dollars. Persona 5, any Xenoblade game, Dragon Quest 11, Nier Automata just to name a few.
@@tubguinaceyes but he referred to this currently game Era after 2021. Many games release with bugs or have baked content just look at ubisoft recent titles
@@Yunothehero That's just another way of saying standards have lowered exponentially, and we've allowed to make it this bad by continuing to buy broken games at 70 bucks if not more. A functional RPG that's 100 hours long used to be a standard at 60 dollars, paying 70 now is just lowering standards. I'm glad recent AAA games have been failing left and right, maybe publishers will get the message, because if they don't then they don't deserve to stay in business.
@@tubguinace has anyone here played Rebirth? It took me 130h to finish the game, not 100% just casually completing most of the side missions. I would have spent $100 without hesitation for the amount of content and quality the game delivered
As an outsider that never plays final fantasy, both 15 and 16 looked extremely generic. The characters shown in trailers didn’t hook me and nothing stood out about the games
15 looked interesting because of its modern world but then playing it man square eniq just thinks ppl like random battles like its Pokémon or somethong
I would say it more DMC than JRPG. Which is cool or whatever but definitely not the reason I even look at FF... Which sadly made FFxvi not that interesting imo.
FF7 Remake was great, can't speak for Rebirth. I'd be playing it if it went on a decent sale and I get the time. I still need to play the Crisis Core remaster too and intermission.
@@snazzydrew Nah it's not even DMC, it's just a western RPG. The gameplay however is almost ripped from FF14, they somehow adapted the accursed 1-minute cycle (I know it's 2 minutes in 14, but still).
@@paledrake um? What? What do you say that? It doesn't really have any freedoms like Western RPGs. It's literally a jrpg story with japanese action game gameplay. Have you played DMC ever?
@snazzydrew True actually, western rpgs have choices and builds. FF16 doesn't have shit. I guess it is similar to dmc, especially since dmc is also Japanese. Damn jrpgs are getting less and less free.
Some people have argued that both games didn't sell well because there wasn't enough PS5 on the market and the exclusive nature of it, this is pure cope, and demonstrably so. There were already over 35 million PS5 on the market when FF16 came out, and over 40 million when Rebirth was released; the games ddin't suffer from a "lack" of consoles, and I guarantee you that the pc sales of FF16 will be anecdotal. The reality is that FF16 suffered from the poor quality of FF15 and the fact that SE's reputation has dipped for years, notably after the disaster that that Kingdom Hearts III, a fantastic looking game, with an insanely good gameplay, but a story that was a mess and ultimately pointless as literally nothing the heroes do amounts to anything at the end, and a protagonist (Sora) who is treated like an incompetent idiot by everyone around him and made the butt of the joke all the time despite being the strongest and most heroic character around, who saved the world several times already. FF7 Rebirth similarly was hit by the backlash caused to FF7 Remake, which, instead of giving us a real remake of the game, gave us a stealth sequel that NO ONE has asked for, and which was extremely divisive among the fanbase, this is why Rebirth did so poorly in comparison, also the fact that the entire Remake project is set to take 3 games to finish is also a significant factor: people don't want to buy a game when they know they won't have the entire story until a few years later, and there's no doubt when the final part releases, we'll see an increase in sales for the previous entries, although not by a large number. Square Enix simply pays its artistic and financial decisions from the past few years, and this should be a wake up call for them to steer the ship in a better direction, or face further woes, just ask Ubisoft.
Remember SquareEnix came out to the press & stated they would always support Sony 1st. You know why SquareEnix is on Sonys balls all the time? Its because of FF7 on PS1 how Sony supported Square after the Nin breakup. Ever since that, Square always made sure their relationship was no.1 all the time. They devoted their soul & worship Sony to the max all because of how the OG FF7 took off. To this day there are still 3rd party companies that do not want to give all the support to Microsoft or Nin in favorable to do more for Sony because they have that secret bond they formed in the mid 90s. SquareEnix & others get what they get for the mindset they laid out through the decades & its going to get worse.
Square actually broke their partnership with Sony because Sony was pressuring Square to make significant changes to Final Fantasy VII. It did last for a few years, but they did break up before the PS3 era. Since the break up, Square Enix has been relying on Pole to Win to market their game for them. For the original, Square didn't give in, which is why we got the original Honey Bee Inn sequence. But for the Remake, Square did give in, which is why you have the new Honey Bee sequence.
I think they finally got the memo that's no longer the 90's and that Sony is never gonna had the same install base they managed to had with the PS2. FFXIV got ported to Xbox early this year, FFXVI recently got a PC release and it's implied it will also get ported to Xbox, despite the game's director stating multiple times that it would not leave the PS5. The only one left is Rebirth and what's weird is that from thee get go they stated it was gonna be a temporary exclusive even the marketing states that it would remain that way until May but for some reason the didn't have a PC port by then.
I'm pretty sure the reason they swapped to Sony was just disc space. They had no issues with Nintendo itself, it just had too little space to make good games in 3D. But Nintendo had an issue with developers leaving for a better platform, because they felt like it was more honorable to stay with inferior products to show how important their bond is. While I'm sure Square worry about avoiding such fallouts now, it was still all on Nintendo really and nothing wrong with what Square was doing. All they need to do now is to sell on all platforms because it is better for them, and hope Sony understands and aren't throwing a fit like Nintendo.
@@linusgustafsson2629 Nintendo ran a monopoly on their cartridges back in the day and is why many avoided the N64 like the plague when it was released. Things only got better on that end during the DS era.
In my honest opinion I think the excluisivty shit drastically affected sales from other platforms. No one wants to wait for shit to come out for an arbitrary extra year. I feel like them slapping fans in the face with that bs is why alot of ppl just never came back to buy it because the hype dies down while having to wait so long.
That and Sony and Square Enix tend to release these console exclusive games onto PC as a buggy mess or having performance issues. By the time they are resolved, I pretty much just gave up and don't bother unless it's drastically marked down.
If square Enix wanted a revitalization of the FF brand they would redo FF 4, 6, and 8 for modern platforms and keep the basic old school battle mechanics with immersive environments that we see from the newer games. I think the shift in combat that first really started with FF 12 and was really amplified with FF 15 was the start of it loosing its identity.
Who knew that taking one game, breaking it up into multiple pieces, charging full price for each piece, and taking like a decade to release all of them would turn people off. SMH…
I was excited to jump into FF7 when they announced a remake - until I saw they were splitting one game into three. I will never play them until the third game comes out...
Yong's video: Analysts looking at the data and how the sales numbers for sequels/next FF entries are disappointing enough that even if launched on PC and other platforms day 1, they wouldn't have made up for the lack of sales. Yong's comment section: NAH FORGET YOUR DATA AND FACTS, EXCLUSIVITY IS THE PROBLEM, DUH! lmao it's like arguing with flat-earthers at this point. The Comment Section of any videos talking about FF16 and FFRebirth's issues are so full of copium if copium could power a city it'd power ALL the cities.
While I'm not a hardcore fan of Square (Soft), I played 6,7,8,11, and 15, among other titles like Xenogears, Secret of Mana, etc. when they were released. The majority of their final fantasy series were turn-based and that is what I expected. So, when they did a remake/rebirth/whatever of FF7 and I tried it, I had no desire to finish the game; they strayed from the original concept (story, design, audience). Certain games are popular for a reason, so when you remake it, it should still be based on the original but with better graphics, current platform, and fixes based on feedback. Otherwise, just add 'Reboot for New Audience' to the title so I know not to get my hopes up.
Its almost like taking a great classic, fans asking for a remaster and getting a remake instead that completely throws out everything people loved about it and alienates the fans wasn't the way to go.... hmmm not sure how that didn't work..... lmao
I still get ptsd from the changes in the story😅 combat though was excellent they should stick to that now. But changing the classic story is taking me away, have 0 interrest in rebirth after i saw the change in remake😅
Square "If each person living on Earth doesn't buy at least 3 copies, this will be a catastrophic loss!" Enix. Their sales expectations have been utterly ludicrous in the past few years, and they aren't helping themselves at all with their exclusivity nonsense.
"FF fails to meet Squenix expectations" is a video title that Yong probably has on CTRL+C CTRL+V for whenever Square launches a new FF game and invariably say it failed to meet expectations.
For me it comes down to this: 1) walled of in Sony's garden, which I dont play in anymore. 2) modern FF games arent anything like the FF games I grew up with and love. 3) they dont even come out very often.
Some of this is not getting with the times. More people now than ever own gaming PC’s over console. You are shooting yourself in the foot in 2024 onward with these timed exclusives. Just release on both console and Steam simultaneously.
@InfiniteNinja428His point is solid tho? If we're talking about games being exclusive back then, sure they're not missing out alot on PC profits but it's a different story now with how big the PC market is
The handling of 7 remake baffles me. Theyre splitting a ps1 classic into 3 parts (altogether costing about $180 if you buy each one at launch) and completely abolishing the combat system for something fans of the original didnt want and making extremely weird design choices on all fronts. All while expecting the fanbase to follow this remakes staggered release for another 4 years and thats not including the 10 years prior when the game was announced. Absolutely mental.
This is the problem with most of Square Enix’s games. Everything have to be named Final Fantasy and every loss they incur they bank on the Final Fantasy brand to save them. FF13 trilogy were great games. It’s just that it’s named “Final Fantasy” that it was initially received badly/mixed. Same thing with FFXV and FFXVI. FF7 Remake and Rebirth are amazing games but it speaks more to people like me who was born in the 90s and know the Final Fantasy brand and will buy it because we know we will get our money’s worth. Sadly most of us are busy with our own lives and family that most don’t even play video games anymore so banking on that Final Fantasy nostalgia just aren’t there anymore because the market for that is slimming. It’s clear Square Enix believes action combat mixed with traditional JRPG stuff is the way to go so they just need to make a different IP with that gameplay style and return Final Fantasy to its roots Dragon Quest 11 style. I really thought they would come out with more action rpg IPs with the success of Nier Automata but idk why they didn’t. Final Fantasy is a series about breaking boundaries with every entry having something new or different but the complete jump off to action combat Devil May Cry style is just not appealing to older fans. OG FF7 has turn based with glorious materia setups. FF8 is turn based with Junction. FF9 back to its SNES roots, FFX with the character nodes and specific character roles and FF12 with its gambit system etc., However the action combat is too far of a difference from its roots. I don’t mind the Remake/Rebirth stuff being different because that’s the purpose of a Remake anyways to experience old story with gameplay that will entice new players to try it out but for the love of God for new mainline entries stick to turn based. It’s embarassing that Baldur’s Gate 3 can do it but Square Enix, who were the pioneers to this gameplay style doesn’t believe in it. It’s traditional jrpg for a reason, it works. This is also the same problem Capcom had with Resident Evil especially RE6 but then returned it to it’s survival horror roots in RE7 and it’s great again. Difference is, Capcom invests heavily on multiple titles like Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Devil May Cry etc., and do not focus only on Resident Evil while Square Enix puts everything on Final Fantasy and just change it to whatever they think is hot/marketable. Capcom also releases games on multiple platforms while Square sticks with Sony for some dumb reason. I’m a Playstation fan boy myself but even I know timed exclusives are killing my favorite series. If I were to give any advice for Square Enix, I’d say look at how Capcom does things and do the same as them. Make new IPs. Hell they even tried with the Soulsborne/Nioh formula since it’s making sales but what does Square Enix name it? Strangers of Paradise Final Fantasy like stop it bruh there’s only so much you can do with one IP. They also tried the Fortnite/PUBG battle royale style but they still called it Final Fantasy First Soldier like wtf man all these Final Fantasy games with different gameplays most people don’t even know what a Final Fantasy game is supposed to play or look like 😂
From what I've seen over the years here's Square Enix's biggest problems in no particular order. Blowing their budgets out of control with extravagant graphics while letting the writing quality drop like the Sector Seven plate since FF12 or 10-2. The focus on graphics causing development time to grow out of control while neglecting releasing smaller games to fill in the gaps. The fallout of FF13 and its sequels, Lighting Returns is one of the biggest disasters in the history of the franchise, selling even less than the original Final Fantasy and the series has yet to recover from the Fabula Nova Crystalis' disastrous sales. The quality of the writing, just look at the 13's and Forespoken. (And to some extent Kingdom Hearts but in that game's case it at least knows it's dumb and rolls with it while 13 and Forespoken took themselves waaaay to seriously.) Any of the I.P's that Square could have used to fill out the gaps in time between the tentpole releases got sold off for NFT magic beans. Square Enix's mobile gatcha games and greedy ass price gouging driving their PR and rep with fans down the toilet. Anything else I'm missing?
For those who don't get it: Imagine being i God of War fan. You like both the original trilogy and the new releases even though they are different. They both belong to the action genre and you love them all. Then someone from Santa Monica Studios gives an interview saying that they want to "modernize" the series and they're looking at successful turn based RPGs like Persona 5 and Baldur's Gate 3. Then, in 2028, they release their new mainline God if War game called... "God of War", so it becomes known as God of War (2028). The new God of War is a turn based RPG where you control Kratos and a party of other characters. You go trough the game where each dungeon is themed after a certain mythology (1st is egyptian with their gods, 2nd is hindu, etc...). The game is mildly successful but it is not game of the year. Later, someone from Santa Monica Studios, gives another interview, where they re-affirm their intention of going the turn based RPG route. As a fan of God of War, how would you feel? That's exactly how fans of the classic FF games feel!
not really. very bad analogy, i am unsure what you are going for , but ill assume you talk about the fact they chose to go away from turn based rpgss. each final fantasy is its own, and the "god of war4" has been renamed simply god of war already , like you said. also, ff always stayed in the role play genres, while in your analogy, you change god of war's genre to rpg AND turn based. better analogy would be to just had the RPG part. It's not the fact they went action game play that killed the series , its the poor design choices they chose for it it. the turn based rpg system was getting old by ff13 and even at ff 10. if you think about it, past the 10th, only one of them has not been turn based and 2 of them has been well received and are mmos.
@@ZelosSama It's not a bad analogy if you completely understood what i said. You didn't really add anything convincing towards that. The "getting old" part does not make any sense. FF has been a turn based RPG series from the beginning except some of its recent games like you admit it yourself. This is like saying that platforming in super mario is getting old, so let's change it to a call of duty style first person shooter. It's the exact same thing! FFXI and FFXIV could just be called FF Online and FF Online 2. They could've been considered a spin-off series like what happens with FF Tactics. No need to change the game genre altogether just to please the non fans of the series
@@ZelosSama After reading what you wrote again, i admit you either might not completely understood what i said or you're just in bad faith. Of course the example had to be to turn an action game into a turn based RPG. It has to be specific like that because the term RPG can be very broad. The more recent God or War games have some light RPG elements in case you don't know that. So your analogy would be much worse (considering in your opinion that mine is "very bad") serving no purpose unlike mine
super mario shoots fireballs, so it shouldn't be a problem to make it first person and reduce platforming to a minimum. It's all in "the shooter genre", right?
@@fallenknight5298 but ff14 is the most popular so people like it more than either turn based and action rpg. but yeah it doesnt matter if people like turn based rpg, fact is , it became less popular , so they got "old", that's why they tried to change. they are in a position that even returning to turn-based wouldn't help them. and for your example again .... making a rpg to an action rpg is way more realistic and less outstanding than turning a platformer to a shooter, im sorry, no , your example doesn't make any sense. if anything , it's exagerrated and makes your point non-genuine. your mario example makes no sense since the mario series has not been a platformer exclusive for several decades now, with mario kart, mario party, they even made rpgs.
They should complete the story FF7R first rather than spending much time on side quests and mini games on the Rebirth. It seems we get a FF7 Mini Games Collection with bonus of 2nd part of story
Final Fantasy had a strong identity from 6-10 and then they started doing other stuff and we really have no idea what to expect when a new game is announced now.
People don't seem to understand that the series was built on turn based combat, great stories/characters, and fresh worlds brimming with imagination. They used to be system sellers. They had the same market share as Grand Theft Auto, being at the very very top of platform sales. Ever since they became ENIX, they have gone further and further from their old formula, causing them to slowly lose their identity, as well as their market share and profits. It's been over 20 years and they still have not realized what is killing them is moving further away from what made them great in the first place. They are trying to target an audience that does not exist. They will not grow their audience by abandoning their old players. The old players are how newer players join the club. Older players are the ones who encourage their younger family members and friends to try these games, often times sharing the experiences together. Old players are not going to encourage new players to try these games, in the same way old Star Wars fans are not going to encourage people to watch Star Wars the Acolyte.
@@micman963 bravely and octopath was exactly what those "fans" wished for. Guess where that led squenix: nowhere near FF number. Why do tb jrpg fans always behave like this? You always believe tb combat is the make or break for jrpg, despite not a single tb jrpg IN THE LAST 20 YEARS came close to FF sale number.
@@Centrioless Their sales and market share also peaked in the PS1 + early ps2 years. FFX sold 20+ million over it's life time, it was turn based, and ironically was 20 years ago. Final Fantasy games have been on the decline ever since then. Just because they sell more than other random IPs is irrelevant to the fact they have been declining since the last turn-based entry. Of course Final Fantasy games still outside the competition for a time, because the IP used to be system seller status, but they have ran it into the ground and that's not going to work for them anymore. However turn based is just one piece of the formula. If the combat was the only thing that had changed, and everything else that made them stand out from the competition remained, then they would likely not have had as many issues as they have now. First they take away the overworld map and flyable airships, then on the next games they take away turn based combat, then on the next games they take away NPCs and towns (ff13) where you just use your save point for shops/crafting in a barren world, and then on the next games they take away controllable party members. Meanwhile people keep making excuses for them and damage controlling for them the entire way. FF7 rebirth is actually a closer to return to form than we've seen a in a while, but it's marred with tons of other issues that people try to downplay. People can act like everything is fine and these issues don't matter, but the sales speak for themselves and is showing the truth of the situation. FF14 is still carrying the financial burden of the entire company, and they are still stunting the potential of that MMO by drip feeding it funding for each expansion, while taking all the money away from it's online store and subscriptions.
@@micman963 the irony is ff15 was the 2nd most sold FF and FF14 trumps everything else in the franchise. But do tell us what you knw abt FF Claiming this is solely an FF issue despite so many devs like capcom and konami abandon jrpg genre completely is an ignorant take.
@@Centrioless And yet you bring up a game that Enix themselves said they were disapointed with the initial sales, because it was a huge investment and on multiple platforms. It had around 5 million sales on the first year or two similar to FF7remake, and then it clawed it's way to 10 million sales across xbox/pc/ps when people were buying it for 10-20 on sale over 5 years time. They were absolutely upset with FF15 results. This isn't even going into the fact there are way way more gamers in 2016 and current day than there was in the 90s. FF7 10million ps1 alone, FF8 8.6 million ps1 alone. FFX 8.5 million on PS2 alone. As big as the install base for Ps2 was, it is no match for the size of current day gaming PC + PS + Xbox ecosystems, PC alone is dwarfs it. So yes, they are selling less, while also costing way more to make, and while having way more players in the market
@@Centrioless I don't think I even brought up konami or capcom, but speaking of capcom they've been widely successful in recent years. One of the key factors is that half of their revenue is from PC, they release their games on it day 1 now. I feel like Enix needs to take note of this seriously, and if they wish to continue on this path they are going they need to drop the exclusive deals with Sony. How can Enix even grow new player bases when they don't even consistently release their games on other platforms? I feel like anyone can see this is a major problem. If Enix was faithful and released their games for everyone to play, perhaps they would not be in the same situation they are in now.
Aside from the MMO FF14, every recent new entry seems to be selling less and less, and beyond things like exclusivity having some negative impact, there's a general sense that Final Fantasy is only appealing to nostalgic fans as constant reinventions like FF16's much different tone and gameplay alienate old fans who feel recent entries have been to much of a departure while being unable to attract new fans from the masses. The inconsistent identity of Final Fantasy has been a topic of discussion and I think one worth exploring.
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Can't wait for final fantasy final...
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Oh my god, name me another "iconic" duo like Square Enix & "did not met our expectations".
Ubisoft
EA and "we have listened to the fans".
Dude. Stop it. They are having loses. Its not a unrealistic expectation
Amazon and "we treat our workers with respect".
@@woaioppai4022 Nintendo and lacking online features popularized back in 2005.
Sony and censoring third party games.
Sony and ignoring Bloodborne.
Microsoft and coming in third place in console sales.
Its almost as if timed exclusive launches harm profits...
No OG final fantasy is always exclusive and it work
Considering how expensive AAA production costs are nowadays I even wonder how they accept going in the timed exclusive route.
@@hellchemical Times have changed
What no way, obviously they double down and wait years to release on steam because that’s working so well…..
@@hellchemical that was 20 years ago. it's not the same today. Exclusives don't make sense today.
Im a PC gamer. After 1 year later my hype is gone and I'm no longer willing to pay full price for the PC release.
The game is really fun tho.
For me it’s more like if I waited a year, I can wait a little longer for a price drop
@@yunusgokcen174FF16 is fun, but it's also got a lot of performance and stuttering issues that shouldn't be a thing for a game releasing for PC 1 year later.
@@yunusgokcen174 but my hype is gone and in my free time I play something different now (currently the new zelda and ff14). And like muffin said. Now I can wait longer and buy and play it for 30euro.
@@yunusgokcen174Yes there are plenty of other fun games.
The curse of modern audience games and the very fact that they Do Not Sell. Even on consoles that had 117.2 million (PS4) and a 59.3 million (PS5) install base. Keep in mind this was the FF7 Remake that forced bundled its expansion DLC to force a $80 USD price for several year (digitally pc/console). These are not good games. Exclusivity won’t save the FF series, it needs a overhaul and a return to its roots.
Or maybe because the games were timed exclusives on consoles no one who plays games owns?
games being censored was a thing that and the subject matter taking a sales spin. Seven suffered when it didn't need to be that way.
my headspace is: when people found out that 7 was not a remake of the original 1997 game word of mouth spread, then when characters were focused changed in appearance didnt help. they know it too, this is why for their action figure commemoration and 'meme $$' they only had original outfits, protect tifa at all costs!
@@killzone110ad thats an excuse that doesn't work and deflects from the real issue, we do not have an example to date that shows where a game had as much trouble as Square-Enix's games have because of being ball & chained to the PS brand.
@@ActionSquintRingo That was apart of it but only near the end. It had a trouble development cycle. Then SNY's guidelines didn't help.
@ActionSquintRingo I mean, despite the exclusivity on a old last gen console and a new barely anyone besides scalpers owning console, Remake still had 7 million sales and on the porn side. FF7 has never been more popular, to the point of Tifa become a country's icon for a bit. So I really doubt the "censorship" had much to do with the sales.
They already admitted to cutting their profit potential by taking forever to make a single game at a time and making them single platform exclusive. It's a solvable problem.
And even that if they managed their budgets better by not making stupid games and also not making things that they never intend to release they would be in a better situation.
@@lostnemesis Not to mention who knows how much money they wasted already on NFT nonsense.
I get the ps1 game was on 4 different disks but making your game into 4 different parts and making people wait for a decade to get all thr parts is dumb
Personally I'm waiting until tgey are done to purchase tge all in one collections edition to then play it
No point playing the parts now and waiting years to forget the story when the next part comes out
Censorships and "modern action" its also another problem.
If i play a numbering title, i want my party members, not just one playable character with few NPCs lol
@@Patrickf5087 ps1 games sold less than 10 millions copies over YEARS. Now SE expects game get 10-20 millions in the launch week.
DEAR SQUARE ENIX, PORT FINAL FANTASY GAMES TO MORE PLATFORMS ON DAY ONE!
Sincerely, even an idiot knows how to up sales.
Not only: censorships and remove action from the main numbering title.
Still waiting for Rebirth to be on Steam.....
Plus not everybody owns a PS5 Myself I’m my Xbox owner and steam guy
FF 16: Action Sells!
BG3: Did i miss the memo?
@@BargerClanbut why would you buy an Xbox if you’re a steam person? Seems redundant.
Locking a game to a console with a low owner-base and a even lower player-base. Watering down an IP to something that no one really knows what to expect of. Managers being stupid.
And the thing is, despite being hobbled by that, both games still sold really well and far above their internal targets for a hefty profit. But SE wanted them to make ALL of the money because their expectations are based on the games making up for a dozen of SE's failures and terrible investments in other sectors
Low owner base? Low player base? What numbers are you looking at? Millions of people is not low. Square enix's projections are not based in reality either, they expect a 100% purchase rate from the playstation audience.
@@zztzgza Comparatively. There are a lot of numbers out there, but generally Steam has millions of active user above PS. Console exclusives are only tapping less than half of the gaming audience. So yes less than 50% of what you could've expected with multiple platforms is low
Also, I don't know where you got the info that they expect 100% sales rate. If they did then all their games must be below expectation
They alienated ps4 owners too
This is why Microsoft stays winning. Because they put their products on multiple platforms. All the gaming doomerism surrounding Xbox is never directed at the real flop: PS.
The problem is Square expects the main FF series to make up for all the bad decisions they make, such as Marvels Avengers, FF Battle Royale, and Forspoken
Yes. This is why they are changing their strategy. I hope they do go away from releasing so many bad games and just focus on a few core good ones.
FF is also on that list it self. They changed from one of the best Party Based RPGs to a low tier Devil May Cry. Fans don't want an action RPG they want a Final Fantasy. And sales will reflect that. More Action is less party. Basic no party or gear in the game now. Bad Game. It cant compete with other Action RPGs and that is what it is. God of War. Elden Ring. Sekiro. Equipment is useless. Party members are useless. Not a Final Fantasy so who is going to buy it? Collectors? and Fans who don't know.
@@dequariusvence8389Did you play 16? It's not a low tier DMC, the combat was made by the DMC guys. Square sniped them from Capcom and let them make the combat. It is absolutely full of FF mumbo jumbo. Sure, the party aspect is gone, but dog. And Jill looks amazing and is the coolest waifu, imo, since Tifa. The worst part about FF16 is the side quest and pacing
@TysonDylan0 Yea, I played. And i had no idea they got the devs from DMC to do it. I think we agree on everything except maybe I shouldn't say 'low tier' and more like reskinned. It just gave a DMC feeling and not FF feeling. I don't think it was a bad game. It's just not a FF main series game. Mainly because of the combat, party systems, and equipment usage or lack thier of. It's like buying a FF game and instead getting a DMC. Or buying NCAA football and getting a college soccer game. Yea, they have schools in it, and 11 players are on the field, but this is not NCAA football. They need another brand for that, like Toyota and Lexus. Mana Series would have been great for it. But, as a FF game... just nah.
@@TysonDylan0 I went in to it having heard that the DMC devs helped with the combat system and I came out disappointed. It *is* a low tier DMC, at least on the first playthrough. I've heard it gets better on NG+ with the higher difficulty, but I have too many other games to play to give it another go.
What makes the DMC formula work is that it actively encourages you to maintain long and varied combos and rewards you for doing so, which 16 doesn't (outside of when replaying already completed chapters in arcade mode). I watched combo videos and replicated them to the best of my ability, trying to make the most of the system, but with the simplified moveset and most moves being limited to slots that can only be changed out of combat it still just ended up feeling like there was only a handful combo paths to choose from. Assuming the enemy isn't a big one which actively cannot be comboed and even lives long enough to do a combo on. As much as I tried to mix things up it just felt like the game mostly rewarded pop ulti > win or knock prone > phoenix dash > punish > repeat for small enemies and Big enemies are literally just bring their gauge low > pool all abilities > get the break > pop everything in a predetermined order.
Story wise it had some good ideas, but fumbled most of them. Most characters felt emotionally constipated and their interactions were pretty lacking with the exception of a handful of story important ones. The romance with Jill suffered the most because outside of the infirmary and beach scenes they barely felt like acquaintances. Just a sprinkling of travel and combat banter could have done a lot to give us a feel for the party's interpersonal dynamics, as well as remind us that they are even travelling with you to begin with.
FF16 is not a bad game, but ultimately I found it pretty bland and forgettable
Experinece as a FF Fan on PC:
1. Timed exclusive on an expensive platform that I have no interest in buying. Delaying PC release for 2 years+.
2. released on PC, and Epic will hold hostage for another 6-12 months.
3. Released on steam, the price is so high that I wait for sales. By then, forgotten about it or moved onto other games.
4.Finally get it on sale. Its a bit of a mess, its ok and other RPGs have surpassed it while waiting for FF on steam.
5. Next installment comes up, starting process over again.
6. PC gamers are now playing RPGs like Elden Ring and Balders Gate 3 made by companies actually care about their customers.
With all these delays, standards in games design and customers expect have substantial improved in meantime. Square has delivered an old game, then sqaure suits wonder why burned older FF fans on PC dont care about FF anymore.
Experience as FF fan on Xbox:
1. Wait for new release.
2. Die waiting because it's never getting released on Xbox.
Don't forget the clownfest of now not selling the game bundled with the DLC as FF16 did now. Every other PS4/PS5 release ported to PC sold only a complete version. FF16 is still selling the DLc at a premium on PC.
Don’t forget that you literally need to mod the game to make it playable unless you like single digit frames
@Spike2276 Considering how bad both XVI and Rebirth run on PS5, I wonder if a Series S port is even possible.
@@arkhe1n107😂pc players want everything free the game is already way cheaper on pc than ps5
I wonder how their NFT initiative is doing.
Why so hung up about it? If you want more context, Japanese business world made SE obligated to mention them because it's an easy feather ruffle in that space.
Last I checked it was just a terrible point and click adventure.
@@ovum I was just wondering if it failed yet so I could laugh at it.
@@thejarredhog3936they already killed the initiative a long time ago dude
@@zavi3rz They sold Tomb Raider for that if I remember correctly.
Hope they feel stupid for that.
They sold their game exclusively on a console that was only sold to scalpers for nearly 2 years...Scalpers don't buy games. What did they expect?
Id buy rebirth on PC if they would ever put it there.
It'll come to PC next year seeing how quickly 16 came. So won't have to wait long.
That's a really good point regarding chip shortage/scalpers. You're already limiting sales to a single console but selling to a people that don't even own the console, can't get one or don't want one is obviously going to limit sales. PS5 also misses the mark but that's a different topic.
Didn't Sony just recently state that 50% of their base is still on PS4?
Edit: Found an article on Push Square's site that reported that of the 118M active PSN users, 59.3M are PS5 users, suggesting, yes, less than half of PlayStation owners have a PS4.
Talk about a shrinking market...
that what I was thinking too, there's a reason why some companies still make their games available on both ps4 &5. Sure it's nice to have the shorter loading speed or the graphic enhancement of the ps5, but that is not enough to make the ps4 obsolete to some people
IMO (not counting the console exclusive) they should have made a ps4 version for the game too
Not really an excuse the ps5 actually sold well it depends how many of them were final fantasy fans square has an obvious problem attracting younger fans to the franchise and the loyal fans who are much older have families and work alot and don't have the free time for big ass RPGs
Damn, it’s a shame because Rebirth in particular is def my GotY. It sucks that they might have to scale games like that back due to lack of interest.
they need to stop releasing in exclusive on PS5, its killing their sales.
Wrong. The problem is Square-Enix investing too much in follies (NFTs, Live Service slop etc) and expecting two games to miraculously make up the difference in cost
To bad they dont think so aka why no more locked on 1 system 😂@@conor6436
Another problem is people still scalping PlayStation 5 sales. The very company itself wants to try to sell PlayStation 5 for $700 to $800 bucks. There are still a lot of people who cannot afford to buy a PlayStation 5 even when it was back at premiere pricing. I've got the money for it but I can't afford to spend it right now due to other concerns where my money should go.
@@conor6436 Then they should start releasing Final fantasy on xbox or on other consoles and pc as they gonna blunder it all and go bankrupt if nothing is done. Square enix cannot keep on going on these bad blunders and keep thinking that Final fantasy is gonna keep them alive.
also the reviews of FF16 , though good, dissappointed some FF RPG fans because it is more of an action game and while rebirth itself was good, some people who played the ff7 remake did not like the direction it was going as it was not a 1:1 remake from the original FF7 so they decided not to continue playing the sequel.
Im not gonna buy a ps5 just to play the game...cant square get that?
No, it's our fault for not buying another overpriced console. Not theirs, for pointlessly limiting their customer base. It could 'never' be their fault, the onus is on us, naturally. It's our responsibility...no...our DUTY...to buy their scalped-to-hell-and-back console to be afforded the honour...no...the privilege of buying their games. It's our fault, we have failed them, as customers.
@@Blisterdude123bro it's been 4 years, no one is scalping PS5s anymore.
@@syed2694 Imagine thinking that's grounds for wasting several hundred dollars on a console that doesn't have games that aren't or won't be available on PC. All the money you waste on a console, you can put into a PC. If consoles didn't cost an arm and a leg and were futureproof, more people would buy them.
Get over yourself and use critical thinking for once in your life.
I don't even think the Switch could handle FF16
@@maverickrx8Okay...and playing on PC exclusively is signing your rights over to fully digital and I'm not doing that either.
Capcom sell 3-4 million copies of a new Resident Evil game: We're really happy! Thanks to all the players who supported us!
Square Enix sell 3-4 million copies of a new Final Fantasy game: 😭
cause Capcom shoves microtransactions into it, selling small is fine if it makes people by mtx after which it does, that's the trick of their "goodwill" its manipulative
It depends on how much budget they spend on the games. Resident Evils games might have lower budgets, so a lower number of sales can still make them profits.
@@marcusclark1339 I've played and beat Resident Evil 2, 3, 4 & 8, Devil May Cry 5, Monster Hunter World/Iceborne/Rise and Dragon's Dogma 2 and didn't buy a single MTX. Nobody I know did either. Never felt the need for any of them so I wouldn't personally describe them as manipulative. If people choose to purchase them that's up to them and I'm sure plenty do but I bet Capcom make a nice profit selling 3-4 million copies of a game at day one full price anyway due to the budgets they work with.
@@MaidenlessScrub Yeah so the problem is Square having unrealistic expectations and out of control budgets/production cycles. Final Fantasy is still more than popular enough they just need to organise themselves better.
No FF costed more to make. The bulk of their profits only cover their production cost leaving little behind for toast and bonuses
Ff7 remake releasing in 3 games kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
@@grifinorange me too. I played remake. It soured the experience so I played the original instead and felt better for it. I dislike the idea of it being a trilogy with a bunch of filler crap, and a altered story line. Graphics and gameplay may be decent but it's not ff7. At best it's a action RPG with a ff7 skin.
@@LuminusObscurum i think the story is good, its the only reason i got through it, but the gameplay for FF7R was ass and i hated it.
@@khirasier I am not surprised tbh from what I saw of the game I didn't look very spectacular. It also looked like a action open world RPG with a clean coat of FF7 sprayed on top.
People wanted a real FF 7 Remake, not a Reimagining
They wanted the most profit out of it and that's what they get. Greed gets you in trouble
Wasn’t square unhappy about their sales since the tomb raider reboot ?
This! I can't remember the last time they launched a game that met their expectations. The problem is their expectations, not the sales.
let the kids play with their pitch forks,dont spoil their fun.
Its hot to shit on Sony,while the same people beging Sony to fund the FF7 Reboot/Remake since ps3.
A quick google search will tell you that for the past 10 years square is NEVER happy about anything.
That was the Former President used to say. But considering his bold face lies, his opinion doesn’t age well because it’s currently the best-selling game in the series. Crystal Dynamics would’ve been upset with Square’s President and should’ve walked away from the Square Enix acquisition of both Eidos Interactive (Now Eidos Montreal) and Crystal Dynamics. it’s simple: Square doesn’t like Western developers.
man they made the "did not meet expectations" when their games jumped from making low tens of millions to the higher end of HUNDREDS of millions.
These are months old bulshit claims that SE is repeating after waiting a while after they were laughed at for making the same claim before. Both games sold well above their average internal targets and made a huge profit. These "expectations" are from executives who intentionally stacked it higher and delusionally hoped both games would sell so much that it would make up for all the multiple other fuck ups and failures Square Enix has made in other sectors.
The first time they claimed that, that number would not have been reached even if every ps5 owner at the time would have bought FFXVI
yeah they were. Tomb raider actually sold twice as well as there FF games, yet they didn't sell well enough and they sold the ip. Nice choice there SE lol. There so stupid
Almost like it should be released on every platform at launch. Square does not benefit from being a PS exclusive.
The point is timed exclusive is main the problem because their real Fans " console players" and everyone else knew it gonna be on PC anyway
The fact PC player is not their market and why bother to sell it to them ,
Now they're getting what they deserve
@@hellchemicalsounds like someone's mad. Lol
I really, really want to buy FFVII Rebirth! I'm not buying a PS5 to play it though. I have both a pretty damn good PC and a Steam Deck sitting right there.
My heart bleeds
Just wait a bit longer.
well you'll just have to wait next year dude
Same. Just waiting for it to come to PC. I have other things to occupy myself with in the meantime though.
me too! im patiently waiting for the game to appear on pc
I got bored with FF16 as the combat didn't feel deep and was repetitive so I stopped probably 15-20 hours in. I might go back to FF7 Rebirth, but while it started out great it got clearer later on that the game was padded pretty hard and not only got boring, but worse started to overstay its welcome and is starting to feel just grindy without substance. I like the base FF7 story and am interested in where they take the new version, but I have to get through the rest of Rebirth first. I don't mind the new action format of FF7R, but they need to rethink the balance. They also really need to rethink the busy-work aspect and not keep padding for the sake of padding. They could have made this new FF7 story 2 games easy.
Havent bought a FF since X. The move away from turn based killed it for me. BG3 showed recently how good that style can still be
Yakuza Like a Dragon and its sequel are solid turn based games as well
Technically, ffXII is turn based. And i think its a great game.
@@ersicoada Agreed, 12 is unironically my favorite.
I recommend you try at least FF XII. This game is active time battle based, like the older titles. They just did hide it better, to reach a "broader audience". Get the zodiac edition. Has also the most mature story of all FF titles. You would miss out not playing it.
Avoid FF XIII like the plaque is is, though. And FF XV is definitely not made for you, though.
Bravely Default started development as a Final Fantasy game before becoming it's own thing and is honestly more Final Fantasy than FF has been in ages. I can warmly recommend it and it's sequels even if the first game suffers a bit from a long repetitive section (can't say more without spoiling though)
They can make a 10/10 dragon quest game but can't make a turn based new ff game.
Yeah but for FF at least whether stuff is localized to the West isn’t a coin flip.
I hate this company.
Doesn't make any sense. FF Sales is always >> DQ yet I never hear news about DQ sales doesn't meet expectations
its been 23 years, get over it already.
They're not ever making a turn based FF again. Every interview transcript is them saying they hated turn based and it was a limitation of the technology at the time and they want to move away from it forever.
@@syed2694 and that’s exactly why the series will continue to fall. JRPG fans MADE final fantasy, and now square hate JRPGs? Then that means they hate making money.
They have been alienating and ignoring their core fanbase for over 2 decades, catering to people that don't like turn based games, that were never fans to begin with. It's like Fromsoft starts to catering to people that don't like difficult games. What you end up getting is a bland game that chases trends that were popular 10 years ago. If FF16 wasn't called FF I probably would have no idea that it was a new mainline entry. And I would like the game more if it wasn't called FF. Square never manged to cultivate a worthy successor to Sakaguchi so all the guys that have come afer him had no clue what FF is. In their mind it was all relative as long as you have a guy named Cid and Chocobos it's FF. Turns out that it isn't. You reap what you sow. At this point I don't care for FF anymore, waiting for FFVIIR part 3 cause I want to see the conclusion but after that the franchise can die for all I care. I mean, it has been dead for 20+ years we were just coping.
I Personally loved 13(I know I know lol) but the last great one was X which is my personal favourite in the series along with 7.
15 and 16 were really REALLY BAD for FF games
I'm with you. My all time favorite developer growing up. I adored their games. I'm now a cynical adult gamer having watched square and several other favorite developers be corrupted by the curse of publicly traded shares
@@phillystevesteak6982 That's just the way things go I guess. Devs come up with a hit, get too big for their own good and the downfall starts. Only for Square it's been a slow and painful downfall to experience as a fan. Goof thing is there are always new devs with the good stuff so I'm not complaining on that front, it's just I loved Square so much man. Still do, as much as dissatisfied ill probably buy FFXVII day one and proceed to shit on it online 😂
@@hotcoldman77 I actually liked most of the FFs, XIII included. Visually it's one of my favourites. I absolutely loved XII but I would love it even more if it was called "The Tales of Ivalice: Zodiac Age" or whatever and not Final Fantasy XII. It's not an FF game. Too many building blocks of the franchise went out of the window, it doesn't deserve the name Final Fantasy. Imho. It's a great JRPG not a great FF, in my book at least. So yeah I have lots of mixed feelings about post X era of FFs. I just wanna see what Square can do in that classic format of FF with all of the advancements in technology and turn based mechanics.
I got ff7 remake cause it’s not turn based , that gameplay is trash
Rebirth - Old fans disappointed by them making multiverse "fanfiction" instead of faithful retelling already perfect story while newcomer might be turned off by the convoluted story
16 - Old fans disappointed by them making the game into "DMC clone" instead maintaining the "party based" and RPG elements of the series while newcomer might be turned off the convulated story
I thought about playing the original game, as I haven´t play it. But I didn´t wanted to spoil the story for the Remake. But playing the remake was dissapointing in this regard, because it looked like knowing the original story would be actually better for enjoying it, so you are right
@@suc125 nice thing about the original, no matter what "modern" console you have, you can still buy it on it's digital storefront for a song, even on steam
5:33 I severely doubt that 'the only people buying the FF games now are crusties'. All of the crusties that I know, myself included, are extremely pissed-off by the direction the series has gone in.
Remake got a huge nostalgia-based sales boost simply by virtue of what it was, (or at least was _purporting_ to be) which has then clearly fallen off with Rebirth after people got their nostalgia fix and realised what S-E was doing with the story - that's clear, but otherwise, nah.
The reality is S-E has alienated and lost what should have been its core consumers because of two decades of underperformance of the single-player games. The core FF player these days is a FFXIV player who might dabble a bit in the single player games. The series has no core single player base.
Pretty much this. The last mainline FF i bought was XIII, the last FF i played was World of Final Fantasy which despite it´s flaws was a great call back to older FF titles. I haven´t enjoyed a mainline FF since X that came out over 20 years ago. Square has been chasing the western RPG and Normie crowd so hard that they alienated their original fans who like their games turn-based or some kind of ATB. The crowd is still there they just went on to play other games like Persona/SMT or the Trails-series because despite what SE might think graphics aren´t everything if the rest of your games feel hollow and unpolished.
As a person who is also a FF lifer, I disagree and most of the crowd that I talk to all don't mind the direction of the games have gone. If anything has suffered, it has been the stories.
But isnt that what final fantasy is as a franchise? Its always evolving and trying out new things. Each game offers a different experience. If it stayed the same then ppl would just complain and compare it to ubisoft games and how they never change.
@@hassaankhan1763 they keep gameplay the mostly the same but change up progression systems and side quest. FF isn't even a yearly series you can keep the same concept but change up other things in the game.
@@midwestylethere definitely seems to be a very vocal minority. If ff7 remake series wasn’t PS exclusive then square wouldn’t complain about sales for sure. The issue of the remake series most definitely isn’t quality, not one bit. It has been a blast playing through the first two games and for me it’s not even nostalgia because I didn’t grow up playing 7. I played 7 for the first time sometime in 2018.
Cannibalizing isn't it. 7-9 was over A few years. The problem is alienating fans by not having consistent gameplay.
Exactly. From 1-10, we got turn base turn or ATB and party system. From 11-16 we got inconsistent gameplay, no party and MMO...at this point noone knows what they will try next with 17
Thats bull. FF has always had different systems and setups for each numbered title. Its always experimented and shifted around in some significant manner. Be it mechanics or its story and setting.
Yeah PS2 era of Final Fantasy was kind of a mixed bag for me so much so I didn't pick up a new Final Fantasy until I bought into the road trip hype of XV and after the first chapter I fell off the game fast. I went back in for Rebirth and though I didn't hate it I'm not edger to play two more full games to finish the newish story. Also PC player now so yeah that's a barrier even if I was super hyped for every Final Fantasy.
@@tenjenkEach entry have different customization system. As a core gameplay, the first 10 games have same basic combat gameplay and exploration mechanics
lol Their prices are out of this world on every single game. Pixel Remastered.... 70$+ Kingdom Hearts series that I bought ofr ps4 for 15$ they want 100+ for in digital ON THE CLOUD and I could keep listing them. They are fucking greedy.
Yeah, but the reason you got a cheap because you bought kingdom heart 7 years later
3 games for 1 remake yup greedy asf. They should not be surpised a second part of a three part game tht looked exactly as the first got bad sales
Bring Final Fantasy back to turn based battles with a focus on party members!
Stop making it exclusive, problem solved
Stop censoring and changing the formula of the franchise, thats the most important part too.
No OG final fantasy is always exclusive and it work
I think that censorships and that action stuff its a problem, its like i going to eat at McDonald and they give me a hot dog, maybe Fantasian will teach them a lesson.
@noriyukiwakabayashi4407 well yes that too
And if they just would manage their budgets better and not invest into poorly made games and then things that they never will release.
I mean that's what they get releasing it years after when interest has gone down ...
I'm a good example where I was so excited to wait for ffxvi to come out for PC and honestly I was surprised that it released this month....
I actually forgot about the game lol
I wasn't even aware of it at all because I don't have a PS5 so don't pay attention to PS news.
Agreed, and PS5 is way too expensive for a 4 year old console.
Considering the production costs nowadays, making a AAA title a timed exclusive for a console (in this case it was PS5) is not the best idea. FFXVI lost the momentum because of that.
Additionally I'm not interested in playing a game that has a very bad optimized port for PC and has even DENUVO in it to make it worse.
Dude can we get the mythbusters to do a benchmark on this? Some people will say it did absolutely nothing while others will claim it melted their PCs and killed their mothers in the process.
Their ethic departement its a problem among their action direction stuff lol
@@grayrodent8232It's hard to effectively test it. You can onpy see the effect of Denuvo on weaker pc's while the more powerful ones won't be effected.
What’s funny about this is that there’s been plenty of feedback from the consumers about what they’d like and they’ve consistently failed to deliver. One example of this is Dragon Quest X. When they created the offline version a couple of years ago, it was the perfect time to release to an international market but instead, they kept it exclusive to Japan again.
It doesn’t help that each installment takes forever to develop
They've tried so hard to make games for a Western audience, and it backfired. Meanwhile, Atlus has been kicking their asses for over a decade just by being themselves.
They appealed to Western fans with a game they locked to a platform that isn’t played as much over here, and wondered why the sales were down.
This notion, they shouldn't appeal to a western audience, bruh, their biggest market IS THE WEST! Good look at their FY23 report for yourself and see how stupid of a comment that is.
But for a second, listen to what your asking for, appeal to what? An Eastern audience? That IS their problem! They make games with a eastern audience in mind, ship it off globally and, shocker, no one bites, or at least not enough do. It's that that's killing them off; you're a Japanese dev making a game for Japanese audience and thinking that Japanese deisgn is appealing globally.
It isn't and it hasn't for a while now.
Instead, maybe make your games for a GLOBAL audience! Have ideas and style that appeals to everyone. Do that homework and figure your shit out, because the same old same old, is boring.
@sharpester7277 atlus also doesn't spend nearly as much making their games though. All things considered though Sega did have to buy them to save them from bankruptcy. Its a different thing altogether.
Square is unfortunately padded with a bunch of directors that want to chase current trends instead of the mindset that final fantasy was built on. When final fantasy 9 it wasn't created with the mindset that it was going to push the limit of realism it was creates to be a fun enjoyable experience. During production sure the director had to deal with the death of his mother which effected some of the story directions. But the point wasn't to chase what was popular.
Turn based games are not something of the past, while I do like the ff7 reboot I am tired of the fact that final fantasy is being turned into this franchise that needs to pad out its story instead of creating enjoyable stories its just padding them out and making them long with simplistic mechanics that don't compliment and engage it. A long story isn't always a good one.
atlus hasnt been kicking their asses. P3R did not sell as much as ffxvi and that game was on multiple platforms
FF16, PS5 only sold 3 million in a week
P3R, PS4/PS5, PC, and Xbox sold 1 million in a week.
P3R was also Atlus's best selling game. So, please explain how they are kicking their asses.
How about stop making games 70 dollars :)
Edit: anyone in the comments defending the price just know
The most successful games of the last couple years are either free to play or 60 dollars
People like u guys are defending greedy companies who are eventually gonna try and up charge us on these games up to 100 dollars and prices are gonna get ridiculous. If u need to make more money from your game make dlc and cosmetics the game doesn’t have to be more than 60 dollars
Nah how about stop making a fuckton of shitty gatchas and 1,000,000 spin offs
And also how about making certain games available in both PS5 and Xbox?
@@leonardofarias8843 ff15 was cross platform from the start. it sold well
Technically 130 the edition they want you to buy
If you can't afford to buy a game for $70, you shouldn't be spending $60 either
As a third world player who has FF IX as my favorite game of all time , I had to skip all the ps2 and ps3 ff games, cause I had my ps2 stolen, and never got a ps3 cause it was expensive as fuck, I bought a ps4 in expectation for FFXV and FFVII remake, after a lot of delays I got to play XV, and while I enjoyed it, it was obvious that it was flawed, vii remake was better, but I only could play the ps4 part as I became a pc gamer.
Now shit is going better and I grabbed myself a 7800 XT, but cames the same problem, time exclusivity.
After skipping the rest of the vii remake parts I was waiting a year for XVI, dodging all news trying to avoid spoilers at all costs, which I managed to pull, but I couldn't browse for FF news or xvi reviews in the meantime.
I'm quite enjoying it actually, the story is so good, the gameplay not so much but there's no big issue with that, I have no issues with performance cause my graphics card cost the same than a ps5 and is a couple generations newer.
But I get why people is mad, console exclusivity is fucking harsh man, and waiting a year for a "runs like shit" game sounds awful.
It's sad seeing a franchise you love dying like this, when they finally are doing entertaining games again. But I'm in doubt if square deserves our help
"The story is so good , but the gameplay, not so much, but no issues with that" why do you bother playing a videogame if gameplay is mid?
@@n110d0 cause the story is really really REALLY good and the cutscenes are plenty, I love the characters and the world building is awesome
@ernestomotta5178 seems like fluff to me, maybe the serie would sell more if they worried about other stuff than eye candy
on my 7900xt, game is so stuttery.
I mean yeah, I've been saying this for a while. Final Fantasy as a brand is lacking a clear identity right now, and I'm going to say it. It is 100% because they deviated too far from the ATB and turned based combat systems. The turn based combat, coupled with the incredible stories that they told, WAS the Final Fantasy identity.
I am by no means saying they should go back to that though, because frankly it's too late for that. Everyone's ideas of what a Final Fantasy game is varies wildly now due to extreme deviations. Some want pure action like 16, some want pure turned based to come back, and some want a blend of the two. Some want simpler stories, but others want the complexity of timeline shenanigans like Rebirth. Some want the darker Game of Thrones kind of tone in entries like 16, while others want the more light-hearted anime vibes of Rebirth.
This franchise has no consistency in its identity at all anymore, and because of the wildly various expectations people have of these games, I don't know how it can be fixed at this point because of how often the devs of these games feel the need to reinvent the wheel with every game.
This is just silly. The new gameplay is extremely well received. While its not for everyone, neither is turn based or ATB. There will always be people who dont like certain choices, but if its done well the audience will be there.
@@ohjay7612 It doesn't really matter if it's well received or not. The problem with Final Fantasy is it once had a distinct identity, and now it really doesn't. Really, the fact that the new styles have been well received, in a way, just makes the problem worse, because now fans of the new games will go on to expect this new approach going forward, while a decent portion still want the Final Fantasy they knew to come back.
But then Final Fantasy introduced gameplay styles that deviated even more, and now you have two groups in the fandom who aren't happy, but creating yet another new group of people saying they like this approach and want it going forward. Basically, Final Fantasy fans are horrendously split between what they believe makes up the true gameplay style of Final Fantasy.
Many want ATB or turn based. Others want a mix of ATB and action, others want pure action, others want the auto-battle system of XIII. Many want to control a party of characters, while others prefer controlling one and letting AI take the others. There's no clear identity of what Final Fantasy gameplay is anymore.
When you play a Souls game, you generally know what kind of game you're getting into, albeit with some improvements or unique ideas to spice it up. With modern Final Fantasy, however, anything goes now. Unless you watch the trailers and keep up with gaming news, you won't know what the newest entry will be like gameplay wise. And that is a significant problem, and I believe it's the primary issue facing this franchise.
The only people who are really buying Final Fantasy games now are the old fans who grew up with the series. It's not growing it's base, and sales have been progressively getting worse with each release, and that is a huge problem for the franchise. The only modern Final Fantasy game that's getting a ton of attention and love from in and out of the fan base across the board is 14, which has shown to be the closest thing people associate to what a Final Fantasy is. There's a reason why so many people say 10 was the last worthwhile SINGLE player entry, it's easy to see why people feel that way. The single player Final Fantasy games are in desperate need of a clear identity of their own merits, that doesn't need to piggyback on nostalgia.
And yes, regardless of how well received Rebirth has been, it is just as guilty of ALL of this. It has all the same problems I just talked about that have been plaguing this franchise for decades now. Not even the almighty FF7 Rebirth is good enough to fix these issues, ESPECIALLY considering it still piggybacks off of nostalgia by being a reimagining of an older Final Fantasy game.
Now if Square Enox wants to take the gameplay style of Rebirth and continue to build upon that and push that style into a new entry with a new story with new characters, that. MIGHT work in stepping in the right direction. Key word being MIGHT work.
@@Nosidda This just isnt true. FF games have always evolved and built on ideas and gameplay. 16 is the only one that is a very major departure from everything else, but thats an exception. Rebirth is their latest game and its not some insanely out there game relative to other entries. 16 simply broke peoples brains and now they act like every entry is a 180 degree turn from the last and its not so.
@@ohjay7612 Rebirth does not feature the traditional ATB turn based combat system. It's a mixture of ATB elements in an combat system that still prioritizes real time action. Is that closer to traditional systems than 16? Yes, but that doesn't deter from the fact that focusing on reactionary action based systems over turn based strategy is still a massive departure from the type of gameplay that the series was once primarily known for. And every single player entry after 13 is guilty of this gameplay departure. 15, 16, Remake, and Rebirth are all guilty of it.
Now the consequences of these departures are coming home to roost. Modern FF is unrecognizable compared to the series golden age, from gameplay, story, character design, etc. And it also doesn't help that the single player entries are no longer telling stories that live up to the expectations set by the series past. Even if you go in expecting that they can't tell stories as legendary as 9 or 7, they still aren't amazing stories for the most part. They are heavily flawed. I'm sorry, but once you've opened the door to infinite timelines and multiverses (aka FF7 Remake and Rebirth) that's when it becomes clear that you're out of ideas.
The Final Fantasy series as a whole needs a complete and total identity overhaul. Their current direction isn't working. And more than anything, Square has to figure out what exactly makes a Final Fantasy game. The online fan wars about what a Final Fantasy game is proves that this franchise is in an identity crisis. Only dedicated fans are buying the games, and even they don't truly know what they really want from Final Fantasy.
@@Nosidda I know what I want from Final Fantasy, and it is everything Rebirth successfully delivered. So don't go on saying "even they don't truly know what they really want from Final Fantasy" as if you're speaking for everyone. There are people online who are blown away by Rebirth's quality.
Wow, who knew locking a highly anticipated sequel in a series that's been cross-platform for _years_ to a single console was gonna be a bad idea?
To be fair, most FF games were exclusive to one system for most of it's life. FF1-6 only on Nintendo and FF7-12 only on Playstation. Wasn't till 13 came out that it finally released on multiple consoles at the same time. That said, yeah, it would be smarter for them to just release them on as many platforms as possible.
@TruEdge68 counter point, games back then didn't cost tens if not now hundreds of millions of dollars to make and advertise.
@@TheBlargMarg AAAs are too damn big, the companies need to pull back the scale which would lower costs. Rebirth could have been out a year or more sooner if it wasn't for all the side stuff and mini games. Queens gambit was plenty. No nee for the frog jumping, Mr dolphin ir any of the other one of things that were put in to pad it out.
@@TruEdge68 And they sold for 3-5 millions each. ff6 sold 4 millions on sness and psone combined. Now even 10 millions is not enough for SE
It being exclusive is the least of its sales problem. It being garbage causes low sales.
Bring back turn based, or turn based-like (ATB System, ect). There are hordes of action games that do it so much better, we don't need final fantasy to crappier version of them.
THANK YOU!
"BuT AcTioN iS ThE FuTAAAHHH"
The remake combat is ATB.
trails series keeps itself to its roots. a turn based jrpg game. and from then on they keep improving upon their original idea that they were able to improve upon the idea of turn based jrpg into something modern and fun. tho they pretty much gave up balancing the combat and its more like a fun to break game than a challenging one. with a lot of modifications, tools and gameplay mechanics... its still very enjoyable game despite the lack of challenge.
I think the the issue is that Square is trying to milk Final Fantasy with very high expectations to make up for the bad performances of other games they published in recent years.
Baldur's Gate 3 and Persona 5 are proof that turn based games are not dead and people will play them if it is fun and engaging. And that's what Final Fantasy used to be: a fun and engaging turn based game. They can retain the original fans and capture new fans if Square makes Final Fantasy what it was best known for, and release them on all platforms day one, optimized.
Side note: I'm still waiting for a Final Fantasy Tactics remaster/port to Steam.
Yeah, can’t put that much weight on your mess ups in other IPs. They however take a long time for FF7 and KH3 development. It’s good, but needs to live up to it.
I think most enjoy the active combat these days which is done well compared to FF15. That was a yikes. 😬
Persona 5 is a bad example. It made money because it had a relatively low budget, making up for it with its stylish art direction. But sales wise it was still pretty niche.
Whenever Atlus talks about P5 sales numbers, they always include the sales of all spinoffs to show numbers that are at least close to the sales numbers expected from a AAA game. That's not exactly a good sign, specially considering there are like 3 or 4 P5 spinoff games depending on how you count. If P5 was really as successful as you say it is, it wouldn't need to do such a slide of hand.
The only way for Square is to severely reduce budgets for the FF series, with a severe downgrade in graphic quality and presentation. Which even leaving aside how humiliating that'd likely be for them, I don't believe for a second fans would accept that.
@@XanderVJ Or they could spend less time developing mini-games.
I'm one of the whackos that actually likes FF mini-games, but they do add a lot of them and i imagine that bit by bit the development cost for them starts to add up. Probably not signficantly enough to be a major factor, but still an area that's safe to cut some costs.
@@XanderVJ "The only way for Square is to severely reduce budgets for the FF series, with a severe downgrade in graphic quality and presentation. Which even leaving aside how humiliating that'd likely be for them, I don't believe for a second fans would accept that."
Seeing how many people rejected Stranger of Paradise by visuals alone (saying it "looks like a PS3 game") as well as dragging FF16 for looking like FF14 (given the same team/names are behind both 14 and 16), you're right.
How could that happens after they made FF7 remake, rebirth and FF16 Playstation exclusive? I'm shocked!
By the time they release on the other platforms, most people have already lost interest.
Maybe for 16 but 7 won't, only because it's 30 anniversary is coming up.
Expectations on movies and games are completely out of control.
My last FF games was XII; I liked it a lot, but it was so different that I changed from buying each at launch to waiting for reviews. I bought FF7R on a Steam sale to try it, and did not like all the changes they made. It feels like "Final Fantasy" is another IP that got acquired by some corporation that thinks it's worth money and it just spewing out product without care for what appeals to fans.
They took a turn based jrpg series and turned it into an action series. You lose the original fans and don’t get the ones you’re chasing.
Exactly. They are trying to increase the consumer base to make up the cost while distancing the fans of FF series.
The gameplay is dope, and a big improvement.
Turn based gameplay was not the selling point for FF7. The characters, setting, score, story, materia system, volume of content. That is what made it great.
The original fans are the only thing keeping it alive. I have played and beaten every mainline FF game since 3 and I have no problem with the directions of the game (other than 15 but that game was DOA).
The guy mentioned in the video is correct. Final Fantasy fans are getting old with less time to game, so when they do buy a game they are aware that whatever game they chose to buy means there are other games they will not have time to try.
@@execdecision2647 It was for me. FF 1-6 were turn based rpg so I bought ff7 knowing it was a jrpg.
I like to play a good turn based rpg with a descent story as turn based I can relax and take my time playing the game. I don't want every game action pack or fps .
I can even walk on a tread mill playing a jrpg. Not so easy with an action game.
The ff7 remake spit directly into the faces of every fan who just wanted to relive their favorite ff game in a modern era. So F them. I'm not playing any of their remakes.
They destroyed the story. Completely. They butchered Tifa's character and obliterated Cloud. Its disgusting. With what i have seen so far from remake, there will never be a scene where Tifa help him in the stream to get himself back together. That was soul bonding to the fucking extreme. They completely killed that couple. And that's what we all wanted to see.
@@celuiquipeut6527 I honestly really enjoyed most aspects of the original story. I was so excited to relive them with voice acting and good graphics. The combat was alright looking. But they literally decided they wanted to do what they wanted and fans be dawned.
@@celuiquipeut6527 "obliterated Cloud" How? He's still an aloof introvert with PTSD and a fake identity.
With 7 I'd bet many people are waiting for the game to be complete before touching it. Sales may decline further though as it is becoming obvious that it isn't what was promised. It's more a fanfiction than what it was claimed to be originally.
I really dont know why they're trying so hard to distance themselves from what made them successfull, turn by turn jrpg.
They're not even jrpgs anymore and even though FF7 remake is nice and fun, it doesn't have the same magic as the original, not to mention most episodic medium goes downward after the first one.
They're kinda like ubisoft lately, they don't listen to what their fans want and keep digging their own grave.
Final Fantasy without the rpg elements is like Gran Turismo without cars.
@@smidlee7747 exactly, I don't feel the "magic" anymore playing FFs games (at least the new ones 15 and 16).
And it used to be one of my favorite franchises up until the 13 saga, which is when I think they started going down.
Replaying the OG games from time to time and I still enjoy every playthrough, still hoping for the FF9 remake to be good.
It's the same as the no one wants single player games thing that was going around a while back. Chasing fads and trying to convince themselves that the old shit doesn't work. Then something like persona or bg3 or any of the other fantastic turn based game that have cone out in the past couple years proce them wronf
it hasnt been turn by turn since 10. 16 isnt a jrpg but the remakes absolutely are.
@@ohjay7612 it was still turn by turn in the 13 saga since you had to load ATB bars to perform actions.
Even OG FF7 had the option to use active time battle.
You're absolutely right when I say they aren't jrpgs anymore I'm speaking about 15 and 16, FF7 remake although flawed was a breath of fresh air in recent years.
"Why aren't we making money??? ;-;"
Here we go:
Final Fantasy XVI took 7 years to release and XV was left unfinished. No matter how good that game is, the fact that I might not get XVII this DECADE is going to cause problems for the series.
Kingdom Hearts 3 was one giant tease, and we've had very little news on 4, not even a sliver of a release date.
Dragon Quest 12 is basically in the Shadow Realm, no one knows where it is, and it's been over 7 years.
FF7 Remake Trilogy, 4 years between entries AND platform exclusive to a system that was heavily scalped for the first 2-3 years.
I wonder why they're not printing money, hmm?
Ever since I discovered the Trails series I've had no desire to go back to playing Final Fantasy. Side note, I think I saw Yong Yea's name in Reverie's credits, much to my pleasant surprise.
Is that series really that good? I'm hearing more and more people talking about Trails series.
@@kevinramirez3134 Makes sense, as the whole series so far has finally been translated for Western audiences, when for the longest time it was only in Japanese. It's hard to put it into a single comment, but the main contrast with Final Fantasy is that each Trails game is in a continuous story arc and has maintained its identity, while Final Fantasy rarely has actual sequels or continuations, and when it does, they aren't really good (though my only experience with that is Final Fantasy X-2).
Same there are too many good turn-based games out there to play the action RPG slop that SE has been producing for the last 10 years. You can literally see the Trails series getting more popular as the releases get closer and closer despite a lot of text needing to be translated from japanese into english.
Same goes for Persona/SMT
FF7 Remake eroded my desire to touch Square products ever again. I know I am not the only one who feels that way.
I miss the job/class system the older games used. Tactics was FANTASTIC given its gameplay and is almost foreign in comparison to any other FF due to that. I never played the MMOs, but I also liked X and XII as bridges to the action style the current games are doing. Unfortunately, I remember XIII's being an oversimplified straight line path through level ups.
Imo Final Fantasy X-2 was the last decent mainline Final Fantasy game made. from 11 to current changed so much i has a longtime fan do not acknowledge them has cannon hell for that matter i don't even acknowledge them as Final Fantasy games.
Personally, Tactics is the peak of the series.
@@Izlude84 for me 6 is the peak
Its just not been the same since it became action based and not turn based.
I miss turn based final fantasy.
At least there's always Dragon Quest
@@gligarguy4010 Yes and thus highlight another issue, when Dragon quest feels more like final fantasy than actual final fantasy you know you done fucked up. DQXI is a fantastic game that keeps turn based elements but modifies how encounters are handled in the right way. Yes i get that random encounters are not really a thing for RPG's anymore but at least DQXI balanced things by staying modern while retaining what made the dragon quest series so good.
@@themadoneplays7842 sounds like your problem kid
@@fredy2041 Look I am all favor of trying new things but Final fantasy had a great battle mechanic that improved upon the turn based system over time. While FF I-V had a more dragon quest like turn based system FFV and up evolved the formula into something far better.
I actually like action-based when I heard the final fantasy series went to it I was excited about it but then I found out it wasn't multiplayer or even co-op I know I'm not the typical fan from the series I'm somebody from the outside that looked at it and recognized it was polished cared to give it a try But had different standards
For a long time, I've felt like FF's lack of identity *is* it's identity. Every game tries to be different and unique.. for better or worse.
If you follow the same formula on every game like Assassin's Creed then it becomes boring. If you try to make a different game and introduce new mechanics per release you lack identity.
Seriously this generation of spoiled gamer brats is starting to annoy me.
and it still is. the FF games sold well. SE's expectations are based on the games somehow making up for all their multiple failures and terrible investments in other sectors. They are aiming for infinite profit margin growth and no game no matter how good or how well it sells can match up to that. Every person on the planet can buy it and next quarter their expectations will be for everyone to buy it 4 times.
Death stranding didn’t do as well as Kojima hoped but he still making death stranding 2.
Rebirth was my game of the year
I bet you in the long term many people will be talking about it.
Except that, for a long time, they were all turn base JRPGs, from 1 to 10 and even including 13... The "lack of identity" started with FF11 being an MMO
@@dorayaki5494just now starting to annoy you?
My brother in Christ, PC/ gamers in general are the whinnest people you'll ever meet. Look at what happened with stellar blade? Or PC release of God of war.
I'm to the point where I'm almost agreeing with the company's actions nowadays. loool
FF is one of my favorite franchises of all time but it pretty much ended for me after XIII. I bought both FF VII remakes but they're honestly just ok. I haven't even finished Rebirth. I'd rather play traditional RPGs like Sea of Stars but when I do want an ARPG I'll play Souls games. To me, those are the new standard. (Stranger of Paradise is horrible)
I hate what they did to the story in Final Fantasy remake. Killed all my interest in future projects. If they stayed true to the original story without introducing all this fate and destiny bull I would have bought the game for all my brothers just so they could experience the story I love.
But they had to ruin it…
Its almost like putting out a game only on a over priced hard to get console is a bad idea.
Final fantasy has jumped the shark for me. I loved the old ff games i played, and liked up to 13.
I absolutely want to love the 7 redo... but it really struck me that i haven't been able to finish 7 remake.
I just kind of lose interest a bunch of hours in and by then another game I'm more interested in comes out (baldurs gate etc) so i pause and when i try to come back it's like... I'm not having as much fun as i had with the og ff7 even though i actually liked the new story and characterization more.
I loved 7 so much i absolutely wanted to like the redo but... I'd rather play the old game.
If they'd updated the graphics and expanded the story and kept the old mechanics and world... i wonder what the sales would have been?
It's not like i don't enjoy action games, i love nier automata, elden ring, dragons dogma, etc, but FF doesn't hit that action sweet spot for me nor does it give me the og vibes i one loved so instead it's just... mid.
I finished 7 Remake, loved it to death. I've not bought Rebirth yet though. I can't tell why. Maybe it's because I quit FF14 on a bitter note, so I want to take a break from FF for a while? Dunno
Yep, that's how i feel. I like action rpgs, but FF pivoting to action as opposed to turn based combat left me with a sour taste in my mouth. I knew when FF XV came out, it was time to walk away and pass the torch. I'm getting my fix of turn based rpgs with the Bravely series and Octopath. I've still got the older versions of FF to play when i feel nostalgic xD
15? Controversial and deemed incomplete (like MGSV and its missing ending)
Remake? Controversial, veering too far from the source material and feeling bloated at times due to its stretching a 5-6 hour segment into 40+ hours.
No shit the sequels to both of these controversial titles aren’t gonna do as well. I bought 15 and Remake. Didn’t buy the sequels because 16 just didn’t interest me enough and Remake left a bad taste in my mouth for Rebirth
I'll say it proudly 🗣FF should NOT be an exclusive!!!🗣
Stop backing Sony they dgaf about you the consumer
No corporation cares about the consumer
@@Purpletridentyeah but I hope Sony specifically goes broke
@@AGenerousLoveWhy?
@@ApexCalibre I’m a Nintendo supremacist
Yea ponies are just annoying
They didn't stick to origin of the game. I guess they wanted to expand and milk it. I felt betrayal by them. They have remaster normally from other game they did but they twisted later on and censer some content.
Wish they just remade ff7 and followed the original story line the play style is fine the story ehhhh I didn’t care for it
A very depressing fact is that they will never try this ever again. Maybe we will get something fan made some day, and with great audio already recorded, maybe it would be possible to botch something together on a PC.
I feel like FF16, because they just flat cut out so many rpg systems and has really boring side content and super bosses only via dlc, it definitely was a game that A LOT of people just watched someone else playing through for the story experience instead of buying it themselves. At the end of the day, that was the only thing left in the game with all the shallow systems, which a FF usually innovates on.
For Rebirth: I know many people don't want to hear it, but it is just simply SUCH a divisive title. As a fan you either HATE it or love it after how the Remake ending turned out and how the beloved story was being changed... The Remake hype was carried by every FF fan under the sun and after it was done, there was fans abolishing the series completely. It shouldn't have been that alienating and stupid in (re)writing.
Add exclusivity and all that jazz on top and I simply can't imagine how you can be so delusional to think those entries would be instant smash successes.
i dont really mind the changes to the story, the gameplay is pure ass though, they shouldve made it either completely turn-based or a full on hack and slash rpg style but that weird ass inbetween they went with led to just god awful combat, i only got through FF7R because i wanted to experience the story modernized, and now im waiting for rebirth to come to pc cause im not paying $700 for a ps5 and especially not paying $1360 for a ps5 pro, at that point id just got buy a better gpu for my pc. im glad the rumours for the FF9 remake are saying its gonna remain turn based, especially since ff9 was a homage to the OG ff games
Split up and go back to being Squaresoft. Their RPG games back then were epic bar none.
Yes!!! i still remember the commercials with the girl voice whispering squaresoft.
Squaresoft was failing before they merged. Don't be stupid.
thats not how it works man. you cant just wish a company to be what it used to be, you have to move forward
as if the name itself meant something..
@@Tyrbris Yes it was due to their boneheaded idea of making movies. They should´ve stuck to games. The Final Fantasy movie was such an epic flop that Enix bought Squaresoft otherwise the company and Final Fantasy would´ve been dead.
Square Enix needs to stop making all their games PS5 exclusive at launch. That console was heavily scalped and went through a chip shortage and Final Fantasy fans are mostly on PC now where their main MMO is, and on top of all that console sales are in huge decline in Japan. Whatever Sony is paying them isn't enough.
Yeah, me and my stepbrother waited at least two years to get one because we weren't paying scalper prices. He was a console-only gamer before the PS5 debacle. Eventually he got a PC, ironically spending more than the PS5 costs, and just started gaming there. Now he has no interest in a PS5 even though prices dropped and I can't blame him. They really messed up with ninth gen, now everyone PC games.
It's very simple. Stop taking out the fricken rp in the damn rpg. It's literally that simple. All my friends and I refused to play ff16 bc if I wanted action, I'd play the other 100s of actions games. So I know I'm not alone in this. My take at least.
I don't really think the problem is just sony
Pepole don't talk much about ff like they do about other new games and i don't know why
Its great tho
I kinda feel there are different factors but thedeal was that Final Fantasy lost the prestige they had once held for years
Because gamers take their favorite franchises for granted. They think it's always going to be around and they can just nit pick every little detail endlessly because no matter what they will make another one. The problem is they are essentially communicating to these studio's that they dont want this anymore. They will ruin their own desires. In 10 years they will be asking themselves why they stopped making Final Fantasy games.
I think Square Enix also contributes to the problem. They have console exclusives AND yet still have unreasonably high expectations for their games
Burnt out. Final Fantasy Tactics is my all time favorite game followed by FF8 and FF7. Over the years I've become jaded. I played FF7 Remake and it was meh to me. I had no interest in playing Rebirth after that. I'm a long time fan and I just don't care to play any more Final Fantasy games.
@@Lithenius I think putting the blame on the players is kinda silly, to be honest, and implies that loyalty to a series is more important than the developers of the series actually making games you want to play.
It's not "fans" who are at fault if a game series stops appealing to them, so they stop buying it, and it dies: it's the devs (likely the suits behind them to be fair) who make the choices that lead to the fans losing enthusiasm.
Literally the only tool that works for "consumers" to alter markets is to vote with our wallets. Buying games we don't like out of brand loyalty just tells companies it's okay to exploit us and ignore what we want, because they're certainly not concerned about forum posts or TH-cam comments.
As someone who has a PS5 and have played a lot of old FF games, the problem for me is the writing in all honesty. FF7 is my fav game of all time. The original, not the remake. And while I enjoy the gameplay, the writing and the world is what got me hooked. But as the presentation of the games get better I expect more from them. An old rpg with blocky graphics and goofy characters, the goofy dialogue comes across different and doesn't bother me. But in FF7 remake so much of it is so cringy. I'll prolly get FF7 rebirth and ff16 eventually for cheap in my local used game store, but I'm in no hurry to spend 70 dollars on them....
Even if they released on all platforms, people don't generally enjoy a mix of action and rpg that ends in both elements being catastrphically watered down to below the minimum expectations for each genre.
I’ve heard several people say they would be down for a 2D HD remake of FF6. Why not just do more like that?
Honestly find it insane that live a live got an hd remake before any final fantasy game
Because those people would be the only ones buying it, lol
one of the original teams for that game said it would take more years than what the original deadline of the SNES
@@valletas Thats because its original director was pushing for a remake for a long time.
I am worried about them touching anymore of my memories. FF6 is a very specialgame for me and the best FF in my book. They would definatly wokify the game and change the story. Just like they did with remake. I dont want them to do that.
I stopped playing at 13. The gameplay just went too off the rails for me.
The FF7R Demo confirmed that this series is long past its prime to me.
I've played every FF up until 13 (11 didn't play though) at least twice with 12 being kind of its own case, but haven't played more than once F13 and none any of the later entries. It's just too much different from the series I fell in love with in the 90s and mid 2000s.
First of all making them exclusive at launch was always a terrible idea, second of all, I refuse to buy a 70 dollar game, and if I can't play it at launch for 60 I may as well wait until it's inevitably half price.
To be fair ff7 rebirth is one of the rare games worth the 70 dollar price tag. Has a 40 hour main story and tons of side content and minigames. There is so much stuff put into that game. Its crazy how they got it out in 3-4 years
@@hassaankhan1763 There are RPGs that are 50 to 100 hours of main story content that didn't launch at 70 dollars.
Persona 5, any Xenoblade game, Dragon Quest 11, Nier Automata just to name a few.
@@tubguinaceyes but he referred to this currently game Era after 2021. Many games release with bugs or have baked content just look at ubisoft recent titles
@@Yunothehero That's just another way of saying standards have lowered exponentially, and we've allowed to make it this bad by continuing to buy broken games at 70 bucks if not more.
A functional RPG that's 100 hours long used to be a standard at 60 dollars, paying 70 now is just lowering standards.
I'm glad recent AAA games have been failing left and right, maybe publishers will get the message, because if they don't then they don't deserve to stay in business.
@@tubguinace has anyone here played Rebirth? It took me 130h to finish the game, not 100% just casually completing most of the side missions. I would have spent $100 without hesitation for the amount of content and quality the game delivered
As an outsider that never plays final fantasy, both 15 and 16 looked extremely generic. The characters shown in trailers didn’t hook me and nothing stood out about the games
15 looked interesting because of its modern world but then playing it man square eniq just thinks ppl like random battles like its Pokémon or somethong
15 was the biggest piece of trash I've ever played.
@@wingedhussar1453 Versus XIII trailer was somewhat interesting. The final product doesnt resemble the trailer one bit other than the characters
FF7 remakes aren't remakes at all and FF16 is a western RPG not a jRPG.
I would say it more DMC than JRPG. Which is cool or whatever but definitely not the reason I even look at FF... Which sadly made FFxvi not that interesting imo.
FF7 Remake was great, can't speak for Rebirth. I'd be playing it if it went on a decent sale and I get the time. I still need to play the Crisis Core remaster too and intermission.
@@snazzydrew Nah it's not even DMC, it's just a western RPG. The gameplay however is almost ripped from FF14, they somehow adapted the accursed 1-minute cycle (I know it's 2 minutes in 14, but still).
@@paledrake um? What? What do you say that? It doesn't really have any freedoms like Western RPGs. It's literally a jrpg story with japanese action game gameplay.
Have you played DMC ever?
@snazzydrew True actually, western rpgs have choices and builds. FF16 doesn't have shit. I guess it is similar to dmc, especially since dmc is also Japanese. Damn jrpgs are getting less and less free.
Some people have argued that both games didn't sell well because there wasn't enough PS5 on the market and the exclusive nature of it, this is pure cope, and demonstrably so. There were already over 35 million PS5 on the market when FF16 came out, and over 40 million when Rebirth was released; the games ddin't suffer from a "lack" of consoles, and I guarantee you that the pc sales of FF16 will be anecdotal.
The reality is that FF16 suffered from the poor quality of FF15 and the fact that SE's reputation has dipped for years, notably after the disaster that that Kingdom Hearts III, a fantastic looking game, with an insanely good gameplay, but a story that was a mess and ultimately pointless as literally nothing the heroes do amounts to anything at the end, and a protagonist (Sora) who is treated like an incompetent idiot by everyone around him and made the butt of the joke all the time despite being the strongest and most heroic character around, who saved the world several times already.
FF7 Rebirth similarly was hit by the backlash caused to FF7 Remake, which, instead of giving us a real remake of the game, gave us a stealth sequel that NO ONE has asked for, and which was extremely divisive among the fanbase, this is why Rebirth did so poorly in comparison, also the fact that the entire Remake project is set to take 3 games to finish is also a significant factor: people don't want to buy a game when they know they won't have the entire story until a few years later, and there's no doubt when the final part releases, we'll see an increase in sales for the previous entries, although not by a large number.
Square Enix simply pays its artistic and financial decisions from the past few years, and this should be a wake up call for them to steer the ship in a better direction, or face further woes, just ask Ubisoft.
Its refreshing to see a take that isn’t just “bring back turn based”
Remember SquareEnix came out to the press & stated they would always support Sony 1st.
You know why SquareEnix is on Sonys balls all the time? Its because of FF7 on PS1 how Sony supported Square after the Nin breakup.
Ever since that, Square always made sure their relationship was no.1 all the time. They devoted their soul & worship Sony to the max all because of how the OG FF7 took off.
To this day there are still 3rd party companies that do not want to give all the support to Microsoft or Nin in favorable to do more for Sony because they have that secret bond they formed in the mid 90s.
SquareEnix & others get what they get for the mindset they laid out through the decades & its going to get worse.
Square actually broke their partnership with Sony because Sony was pressuring Square to make significant changes to Final Fantasy VII. It did last for a few years, but they did break up before the PS3 era. Since the break up, Square Enix has been relying on Pole to Win to market their game for them. For the original, Square didn't give in, which is why we got the original Honey Bee Inn sequence. But for the Remake, Square did give in, which is why you have the new Honey Bee sequence.
I think they finally got the memo that's no longer the 90's and that Sony is never gonna had the same install base they managed to had with the PS2.
FFXIV got ported to Xbox early this year, FFXVI recently got a PC release and it's implied it will also get ported to Xbox, despite the game's director stating multiple times that it would not leave the PS5.
The only one left is Rebirth and what's weird is that from thee get go they stated it was gonna be a temporary exclusive even the marketing states that it would remain that way until May but for some reason the didn't have a PC port by then.
I'm pretty sure the reason they swapped to Sony was just disc space. They had no issues with Nintendo itself, it just had too little space to make good games in 3D. But Nintendo had an issue with developers leaving for a better platform, because they felt like it was more honorable to stay with inferior products to show how important their bond is.
While I'm sure Square worry about avoiding such fallouts now, it was still all on Nintendo really and nothing wrong with what Square was doing. All they need to do now is to sell on all platforms because it is better for them, and hope Sony understands and aren't throwing a fit like Nintendo.
@@linusgustafsson2629 Nintendo ran a monopoly on their cartridges back in the day and is why many avoided the N64 like the plague when it was released. Things only got better on that end during the DS era.
So sad that news on "gaming" are mostly about sales trends and stakeholder expectations and their stocks. Instead of just discussing a "good game".
The best FF games are on the SNES, PSX and PS2.
Yes. Final Fantasy IX is indeed the best.
Edit: Wait, forgot about Crisis Core.
And PC, ye forgot FFXIV
@@Kumomo92everyone forget about Final Fantasy XIV 😂
FF 13 (PS3) was good, imo, but yeah, nothing like the games from SNES and PS1-PS2.
And now they’re pretty much everywhere
In my honest opinion I think the excluisivty shit drastically affected sales from other platforms.
No one wants to wait for shit to come out for an arbitrary extra year. I feel like them slapping fans
in the face with that bs is why alot of ppl just never came back to buy it because the hype dies down
while having to wait so long.
That and Sony and Square Enix tend to release these console exclusive games onto PC as a buggy mess or having performance issues. By the time they are resolved, I pretty much just gave up and don't bother unless it's drastically marked down.
If square Enix wanted a revitalization of the FF brand they would redo FF 4, 6, and 8 for modern platforms and keep the basic old school battle mechanics with immersive environments that we see from the newer games. I think the shift in combat that first really started with FF 12 and was really amplified with FF 15 was the start of it loosing its identity.
ff12 is actually one of my favourite ff games, FF13 is when it all went to shit
Or they could study successful modern turnbased titles like Atlus games and Baldur's Gate 2. (Not rip it off)
I have been done with FF for sometime now.
Who knew that taking one game, breaking it up into multiple pieces, charging full price for each piece, and taking like a decade to release all of them would turn people off. SMH…
Kingdom Hearts in a nutshell 😂
I was excited to jump into FF7 when they announced a remake - until I saw they were splitting one game into three. I will never play them until the third game comes out...
thats what many say.... i bet Square will release a big FF7 Remake Collection
Yong's video: Analysts looking at the data and how the sales numbers for sequels/next FF entries are disappointing enough that even if launched on PC and other platforms day 1, they wouldn't have made up for the lack of sales.
Yong's comment section: NAH FORGET YOUR DATA AND FACTS, EXCLUSIVITY IS THE PROBLEM, DUH!
lmao it's like arguing with flat-earthers at this point. The Comment Section of any videos talking about FF16 and FFRebirth's issues are so full of copium if copium could power a city it'd power ALL the cities.
While I'm not a hardcore fan of Square (Soft), I played 6,7,8,11, and 15, among other titles like Xenogears, Secret of Mana, etc. when they were released. The majority of their final fantasy series were turn-based and that is what I expected. So, when they did a remake/rebirth/whatever of FF7 and I tried it, I had no desire to finish the game; they strayed from the original concept (story, design, audience). Certain games are popular for a reason, so when you remake it, it should still be based on the original but with better graphics, current platform, and fixes based on feedback. Otherwise, just add 'Reboot for New Audience' to the title so I know not to get my hopes up.
16 was awful.
And Rebirth's name was ruined by Remake featuring time jannies.
Yeah what were those man ... I really didn't like that.
Its almost like taking a great classic, fans asking for a remaster and getting a remake instead that completely throws out everything people loved about it and alienates the fans wasn't the way to go.... hmmm not sure how that didn't work..... lmao
I still get ptsd from the changes in the story😅 combat though was excellent they should stick to that now. But changing the classic story is taking me away, have 0 interrest in rebirth after i saw the change in remake😅
@@timjacobsen253it's the same main story beats though plus new ones. The original is always there if you don't want anything new?
Square "If each person living on Earth doesn't buy at least 3 copies, this will be a catastrophic loss!" Enix.
Their sales expectations have been utterly ludicrous in the past few years, and they aren't helping themselves at all with their exclusivity nonsense.
"FF fails to meet Squenix expectations" is a video title that Yong probably has on CTRL+C CTRL+V for whenever Square launches a new FF game and invariably say it failed to meet expectations.
No their games costed alot to make with their main focus on graphics.
Most of their profits are used to recoup development cost.
For me it comes down to this: 1) walled of in Sony's garden, which I dont play in anymore. 2) modern FF games arent anything like the FF games I grew up with and love. 3) they dont even come out very often.
Some of this is not getting with the times. More people now than ever own gaming PC’s over console. You are shooting yourself in the foot in 2024 onward with these timed exclusives. Just release on both console and Steam simultaneously.
@InfiniteNinja428His point is solid tho? If we're talking about games being exclusive back then, sure they're not missing out alot on PC profits but it's a different story now with how big the PC market is
FF7 is one game. Why is the hd remake broken into multiple games
Because then SquareEnix can charge you multiple times!💸
Because the remakes are essentially different games
Not defending it but the original was a 3 disc game😅 still should have made all 3 so they could release them within a shorter time😅
@@timjacobsen253 Remake + Rebirth is 150 hours, yet it's only disc 1 of the OG lol
@@DeadInterior its insane what disc one had before disc 2😅 if this was on disc it would be an 8 disc edition 😅
The handling of 7 remake baffles me. Theyre splitting a ps1 classic into 3 parts (altogether costing about $180 if you buy each one at launch) and completely abolishing the combat system for something fans of the original didnt want and making extremely weird design choices on all fronts. All while expecting the fanbase to follow this remakes staggered release for another 4 years and thats not including the 10 years prior when the game was announced. Absolutely mental.
Remember when you got all three discs on the same day for $60?
This is the problem with most of Square Enix’s games. Everything have to be named Final Fantasy and every loss they incur they bank on the Final Fantasy brand to save them. FF13 trilogy were great games. It’s just that it’s named “Final Fantasy” that it was initially received badly/mixed. Same thing with FFXV and FFXVI. FF7 Remake and Rebirth are amazing games but it speaks more to people like me who was born in the 90s and know the Final Fantasy brand and will buy it because we know we will get our money’s worth. Sadly most of us are busy with our own lives and family that most don’t even play video games anymore so banking on that Final Fantasy nostalgia just aren’t there anymore because the market for that is slimming. It’s clear Square Enix believes action combat mixed with traditional JRPG stuff is the way to go so they just need to make a different IP with that gameplay style and return Final Fantasy to its roots Dragon Quest 11 style. I really thought they would come out with more action rpg IPs with the success of Nier Automata but idk why they didn’t. Final Fantasy is a series about breaking boundaries with every entry having something new or different but the complete jump off to action combat Devil May Cry style is just not appealing to older fans. OG FF7 has turn based with glorious materia setups. FF8 is turn based with Junction. FF9 back to its SNES roots, FFX with the character nodes and specific character roles and FF12 with its gambit system etc., However the action combat is too far of a difference from its roots. I don’t mind the Remake/Rebirth stuff being different because that’s the purpose of a Remake anyways to experience old story with gameplay that will entice new players to try it out but for the love of God for new mainline entries stick to turn based. It’s embarassing that Baldur’s Gate 3 can do it but Square Enix, who were the pioneers to this gameplay style doesn’t believe in it. It’s traditional jrpg for a reason, it works. This is also the same problem Capcom had with Resident Evil especially RE6 but then returned it to it’s survival horror roots in RE7 and it’s great again. Difference is, Capcom invests heavily on multiple titles like Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Devil May Cry etc., and do not focus only on Resident Evil while Square Enix puts everything on Final Fantasy and just change it to whatever they think is hot/marketable. Capcom also releases games on multiple platforms while Square sticks with Sony for some dumb reason. I’m a Playstation fan boy myself but even I know timed exclusives are killing my favorite series. If I were to give any advice for Square Enix, I’d say look at how Capcom does things and do the same as them. Make new IPs. Hell they even tried with the Soulsborne/Nioh formula since it’s making sales but what does Square Enix name it? Strangers of Paradise Final Fantasy like stop it bruh there’s only so much you can do with one IP. They also tried the Fortnite/PUBG battle royale style but they still called it Final Fantasy First Soldier like wtf man all these Final Fantasy games with different gameplays most people don’t even know what a Final Fantasy game is supposed to play or look like 😂
From what I've seen over the years here's Square Enix's biggest problems in no particular order.
Blowing their budgets out of control with extravagant graphics while letting the writing quality drop like the Sector Seven plate since FF12 or 10-2.
The focus on graphics causing development time to grow out of control while neglecting releasing smaller games to fill in the gaps.
The fallout of FF13 and its sequels, Lighting Returns is one of the biggest disasters in the history of the franchise, selling even less than the original Final Fantasy and the series has yet to recover from the Fabula Nova Crystalis' disastrous sales.
The quality of the writing, just look at the 13's and Forespoken. (And to some extent Kingdom Hearts but in that game's case it at least knows it's dumb and rolls with it while 13 and Forespoken took themselves waaaay to seriously.)
Any of the I.P's that Square could have used to fill out the gaps in time between the tentpole releases got sold off for NFT magic beans.
Square Enix's mobile gatcha games and greedy ass price gouging driving their PR and rep with fans down the toilet.
Anything else I'm missing?
For those who don't get it: Imagine being i God of War fan. You like both the original trilogy and the new releases even though they are different. They both belong to the action genre and you love them all. Then someone from Santa Monica Studios gives an interview saying that they want to "modernize" the series and they're looking at successful turn based RPGs like Persona 5 and Baldur's Gate 3. Then, in 2028, they release their new mainline God if War game called... "God of War", so it becomes known as God of War (2028). The new God of War is a turn based RPG where you control Kratos and a party of other characters. You go trough the game where each dungeon is themed after a certain mythology (1st is egyptian with their gods, 2nd is hindu, etc...). The game is mildly successful but it is not game of the year. Later, someone from Santa Monica Studios, gives another interview, where they re-affirm their intention of going the turn based RPG route. As a fan of God of War, how would you feel? That's exactly how fans of the classic FF games feel!
not really. very bad analogy, i am unsure what you are going for , but ill assume you talk about the fact they chose to go away from turn based rpgss. each final fantasy is its own, and the "god of war4" has been renamed simply god of war already , like you said. also, ff always stayed in the role play genres, while in your analogy, you change god of war's genre to rpg AND turn based. better analogy would be to just had the RPG part.
It's not the fact they went action game play that killed the series , its the poor design choices they chose for it it. the turn based rpg system was getting old by ff13 and even at ff 10. if you think about it, past the 10th, only one of them has not been turn based and 2 of them has been well received and are mmos.
@@ZelosSama It's not a bad analogy if you completely understood what i said. You didn't really add anything convincing towards that. The "getting old" part does not make any sense. FF has been a turn based RPG series from the beginning except some of its recent games like you admit it yourself. This is like saying that platforming in super mario is getting old, so let's change it to a call of duty style first person shooter. It's the exact same thing! FFXI and FFXIV could just be called FF Online and FF Online 2. They could've been considered a spin-off series like what happens with FF Tactics. No need to change the game genre altogether just to please the non fans of the series
@@ZelosSama After reading what you wrote again, i admit you either might not completely understood what i said or you're just in bad faith. Of course the example had to be to turn an action game into a turn based RPG. It has to be specific like that because the term RPG can be very broad. The more recent God or War games have some light RPG elements in case you don't know that. So your analogy would be much worse (considering in your opinion that mine is "very bad") serving no purpose unlike mine
super mario shoots fireballs, so it shouldn't be a problem to make it first person and reduce platforming to a minimum. It's all in "the shooter genre", right?
@@fallenknight5298 but ff14 is the most popular so people like it more than either turn based and action rpg. but yeah it doesnt matter if people like turn based rpg, fact is , it became less popular , so they got "old", that's why they tried to change. they are in a position that even returning to turn-based wouldn't help them.
and for your example again .... making a rpg to an action rpg is way more realistic and less outstanding than turning a platformer to a shooter, im sorry, no , your example doesn't make any sense. if anything , it's exagerrated and makes your point non-genuine.
your mario example makes no sense since the mario series has not been a platformer exclusive for several decades now, with mario kart, mario party, they even made rpgs.
They should complete the story FF7R first rather than spending much time on side quests and mini games on the Rebirth. It seems we get a FF7 Mini Games Collection with bonus of 2nd part of story
Final Fantasy had a strong identity from 6-10 and then they started doing other stuff and we really have no idea what to expect when a new game is announced now.
People don't seem to understand that the series was built on turn based combat, great stories/characters, and fresh worlds brimming with imagination. They used to be system sellers. They had the same market share as Grand Theft Auto, being at the very very top of platform sales. Ever since they became ENIX, they have gone further and further from their old formula, causing them to slowly lose their identity, as well as their market share and profits. It's been over 20 years and they still have not realized what is killing them is moving further away from what made them great in the first place.
They are trying to target an audience that does not exist. They will not grow their audience by abandoning their old players. The old players are how newer players join the club. Older players are the ones who encourage their younger family members and friends to try these games, often times sharing the experiences together. Old players are not going to encourage new players to try these games, in the same way old Star Wars fans are not going to encourage people to watch Star Wars the Acolyte.
@@micman963 bravely and octopath was exactly what those "fans" wished for. Guess where that led squenix: nowhere near FF number.
Why do tb jrpg fans always behave like this? You always believe tb combat is the make or break for jrpg, despite not a single tb jrpg IN THE LAST 20 YEARS came close to FF sale number.
@@Centrioless Their sales and market share also peaked in the PS1 + early ps2 years. FFX sold 20+ million over it's life time, it was turn based, and ironically was 20 years ago. Final Fantasy games have been on the decline ever since then. Just because they sell more than other random IPs is irrelevant to the fact they have been declining since the last turn-based entry. Of course Final Fantasy games still outside the competition for a time, because the IP used to be system seller status, but they have ran it into the ground and that's not going to work for them anymore.
However turn based is just one piece of the formula. If the combat was the only thing that had changed, and everything else that made them stand out from the competition remained, then they would likely not have had as many issues as they have now. First they take away the overworld map and flyable airships, then on the next games they take away turn based combat, then on the next games they take away NPCs and towns (ff13) where you just use your save point for shops/crafting in a barren world, and then on the next games they take away controllable party members. Meanwhile people keep making excuses for them and damage controlling for them the entire way.
FF7 rebirth is actually a closer to return to form than we've seen a in a while, but it's marred with tons of other issues that people try to downplay. People can act like everything is fine and these issues don't matter, but the sales speak for themselves and is showing the truth of the situation.
FF14 is still carrying the financial burden of the entire company, and they are still stunting the potential of that MMO by drip feeding it funding for each expansion, while taking all the money away from it's online store and subscriptions.
@@micman963 the irony is ff15 was the 2nd most sold FF and FF14 trumps everything else in the franchise. But do tell us what you knw abt FF
Claiming this is solely an FF issue despite so many devs like capcom and konami abandon jrpg genre completely is an ignorant take.
@@Centrioless And yet you bring up a game that Enix themselves said they were disapointed with the initial sales, because it was a huge investment and on multiple platforms. It had around 5 million sales on the first year or two similar to FF7remake, and then it clawed it's way to 10 million sales across xbox/pc/ps when people were buying it for 10-20 on sale over 5 years time. They were absolutely upset with FF15 results.
This isn't even going into the fact there are way way more gamers in 2016 and current day than there was in the 90s. FF7 10million ps1 alone, FF8 8.6 million ps1 alone. FFX 8.5 million on PS2 alone. As big as the install base for Ps2 was, it is no match for the size of current day gaming PC + PS + Xbox ecosystems, PC alone is dwarfs it. So yes, they are selling less, while also costing way more to make, and while having way more players in the market
@@Centrioless I don't think I even brought up konami or capcom, but speaking of capcom they've been widely successful in recent years. One of the key factors is that half of their revenue is from PC, they release their games on it day 1 now. I feel like Enix needs to take note of this seriously, and if they wish to continue on this path they are going they need to drop the exclusive deals with Sony. How can Enix even grow new player bases when they don't even consistently release their games on other platforms? I feel like anyone can see this is a major problem. If Enix was faithful and released their games for everyone to play, perhaps they would not be in the same situation they are in now.