The worst thing about the Timeless Child is that it's not a terrible idea. The fact that they made the Doctor the Timeless Child is what was truly terrible. Seriously, if the Doctor had to come to terms with the idea thar his/her powers were stolen from someone else, that could've been amazing.
@@RhodeoMusic He was literally Peak Loki, like I wouldn't doubt it if he faked even his death... he literally fooled Thanos and made a life of his own on another Planet
@@dantefromdevilmaycry9857 honestly man I think your right he just oozed cool, and the T.V.A couldn't just let him mind his own business, really hope he comes back again at some point
One thing I remember from Doctor Who's Pompeii episode is that the Italians didn't have a word for Volcano, so it makes complete sense that people would think Loki is just spouting out random bullshit.
@@ThePa1riot That one dude there: "This is it, this is my moment of death. Better lay down in this little crevice and rub one out, one last time as the fire liquid of death comes for me. I will come first i promise."
Speaking of that, there is a channel called Polymathy that reviews Latin in media, and the Latin Loki is actually saying reflects that fact. What Loki actually said, was something along the lines of "That mountain of yours that has suffered fires for centuries, is about to spill the fires all over you". th-cam.com/video/884XGfeJjCc/w-d-xo.html
Richard E Grant was the best part of episode 5. His story, the feats he pulls, the end of the episode are pure perfection. It's a shame he likely won't be in episode 6 or anything going forward, but here's to hoping because he was amazing.
I respect that rather than keep talking about the version of the show you don't like, you just been talking about other episodes of Dr Who you like instead or providing a new insight like this comparison with Loki. I don't like the new era of the show either and don't have much confidence in the show going forward. But I'm also *really* sick of hearing about why it's bad cause it's all that anyone seems to want to talk about and they seem to keep hitting the same talking points over and over.
Agreed. I understand the reasons why some people aren't fans of Series 11 and 12, but it's really getting old hearing the same tired arguments and discussions over and over again (same can be said for the discussion around Star Wars Episodes VII - IX). The whole thing is losing its meaning.
I’d would have liked a 2-4 more episodes of Loki-Like most of the Marvel shows, even the good ones, it felt a little rushed. My main issue from a character POV was I felt like this Loki’s redemption arc was far too rushed. In the series, we briefly watch Loki watch a video of the OG Loki’s life & death. This is supposed to be the pivotal moment that makes Variant Loki realize how badly Loki Prime had fucked up. I’m down with that but I felt like Variant Loki’s personal evolution would have hit a lot harder if it hadn’t mostly been an exposition dump. It wasn’t the worst thing ever but if they’d really played their cards right this could have been something HUGE. Loki does redeem himself in Marvel’s main timeline, of course. It’s powerful & it’s tragic. Loki Prime ultimately dies a hero. Variant Loki’s gotten a second chance to actually LIVE as a hero. I just would have liked to see him come to that realization more organically, with a little less tell & a lot more show.
Tennant era Doctor Who was easily the worst written and worst peformed. I've never encountered a single person educated on the topic of film and television who even likes that era, let alone thinks its the best.
@@djdoc06 So google search backs up my point that I am yet to meet someone who actually understands the medium of television as well as thinks Tennant was a good doctor? Pray tell; what did tennant do besides overact and chew the scenery? He was the most formulaic Doctor imaginable. Every episode and series was the same. Guns, guns, damsel in distress, tennant shouting angrily for no reason, stupid word like "allons y", more guns...
@@djdoc06 I've literally just stated why he's the worst you imbecile. Extremely over formulaic ham actor who did nothing but chew the scenery. Literally every episode of his run is proof of that.
How have I, a huge Neil Gaiman fan, not yet drawn the "this feels like Gaiman" connection when it comes to this show? So, petition for Gaiman to write on the second season if it happens...?
@@tellmesomething2412 Hold your Horse there Pal! Producer Nate Moore said that it *likely* to have a second season. Nobody else that works with marvel said anything else.
A better use of Richard E. Grant indeed, that whole scene was awesome! I wish we coulda got more of him, but honestly this feels like a wandavision doctor strange cameo situation where while cool as it may have been, it woulda taken away a little from the main story being about Sylvie, Loki, Mobius, & (although we haven't seen perhaps as much of her) Ravonna.
Comes out a TVA Door way while doing a barrel roll straight into a Dr Strange portal to Tahiti, You can thank me later 🤣 Even funnier! Deadite on a Jet ski or Ash and Multiverse of Madness is complete!
Sophia Di Martino is a pretty good actress, I'm glad she's getting more recognition in Loki. I didn't even realise she was Emma in Friday Night Dinner!
Sylvia’s still a little flat as a character but she does a low with what she’s given. I’m not even blaming the showrunners roo much for this. At some point in the last decade or so Disney execs fully embraced the Mary Sue. It almost feels like Marvel & Disney writers aren’t even allowed to give major female characters much any defining characteristics beyond being The Strong Woman. Some of their writers have rebelled (Hawkeye wrote some solid female characters) as have some of the actresses themselves. I started off hating Sylvia but Sophia finally won me over. 🙂
I just feel sad about doctor who tbh, I used to be obsessed, I STILL remember many of the episode plots AND titles from Eccleston, tenant and smiths eras, there's literally no other series that has episodes this memorable to me. I might just watch capaldi's run down the line but it's sad seeing how it's declined since it's golden era.
The Capaldi era was fantastic, I had trouble getting into it at first, especially after still "mourning" Smith's departure, but as it went on I came to really love it. Capaldi brought a brilliant side to the Doctor and I was really sad and teary-eyed when he regenerated/left.
It almost feels like Doctor Who has gotten lazy. There haven't been many Sci-Fi shows that compete with it on a bigger scale. Loki is the first one to step up on a huge scale and it just shows the problems with the current direction of the show.
I don't know, I have a lot of friends who like the newest Doctor Who, and it seems to match their attitude on Brexit perfectly. They thought that the referendum was lost because most people in the country are stupid and need to be lectured at with the message the EU is great, over and over again. I'm not sure if that's what they really think, it's just the impression I get from talking to them. When talking to them about how I don't like the new Doctor Who slamming messages in your face like you're a child they repeat their idea about people being too stupid to understand otherwise. I get the impression that this is what a lot of the current writers if doctor who think too, as they are the same sort of people.
honestly loki is pretty much worse, it doesnt follow anything from whats happened in endgame, i mean the arrested loki for escaping and when loki points out he only escaped cause tony and steve time travelled, but APPERENTLY them time travelling was supposed to happen, which means that steve and tony going back to world war 2 to retrieve the teseract was also supposed to happen, but guess wat the only reason y tony and steve had to go to that time was because, Loki took the teseract and whooshed off, meaning Loki escaping was supposed to happen. Also the TVA destroyed the timeline that they found Loki in, WHICH IS STILL THE SAME TIMELINE THE ENTIRE AVENGERS TEAM WERE TAKING THE INFINITY STONES FROM, meaning since the TVA destroyed that entire, timeline, there was no timeline for steve to return the stones too, because it was deleted, and we already know thats not true because in endgame steve is still within the timeline and has lived through it meaning he fixed time, but according to Loki series, the TVA destroyed it meaning no timeline for steve to go to meaning steve would be creating a different timeline where there are now 2 of each infinity stones, since the stones were never taken from those timelines, tell me how does this make Loki a good show its just as dogshit as Doctor Who has become.
@Eythyn Thomas Kutty You are pathethic if one logical flaw makes the entire show dogshit. News Flash, so would every other Time Travel plot be, they always have a flaw. Hell, the flaw originates in Endgame, not Loki. Based on the pre-established laws of that movie Steve shouldn't even have been able to bring back the stones as they were not changing the past. Hence travelling to a changed past would be an impossibility. Lastly, are you seriously complaining about the TVA's claim that Endgame was supposed to happen as it did? When they have been lying through their teeth for 5 episodes now? Come on! The show even establishes how small things don't disturb the sacred timeline so long as they don't affect the big picture. The whole apocalypse thing and the existence of multiple Loki's is literally based on that concept. So if the TVA wants the Avengers to get the stones and undo the snap, then I doubt insignificant fluctuations like where they got it from matters. The show isn't dogshit for any of the reasons you implied, you just lack the basic comprehension skills to follow it even when it literally spells it out for you.
@@bigcnmmerb0873 When the TVA pruned the Loki timeline from Endgame, they pruned _specifically_ the timeline branch caused by Loki's escape, as all branches caused by the stones being taken were reconnected by Steve returning the stones. Likewise, there was no branch to prune from Steve taking the Tesseract and Pym particles from SHIELD, since, like the rest of the stones, they were replaced mere moments after they were taken. I do find it likely, however, that the TVA pruned the branch caused by 2014 Thanos's jaunt over to 2023, but again, the stones wouldn't be affected, as they were already replaced.
Loki is doing what Doctor who can’t. Sylvie is actually what I hoped the 13th to be. A touch of 10, with a hint of 12 and Missy. That PROVES the regeneration 12 had into 13 had some effect on the interaction with Missy. The regeneration 13 is a reflection of the past like 12s “who framed me this face” arc. The 13th Doctor is cowardly and the Timeless Child is pointless. They shouldn’t have ruined their chances on retconning the Doctors past while having the biggest risk (a female doctor) still going on. There’s nothing wrong with a female Doctor at all, but if you’re willing to alienate your audience with forcing them to accept this current storyline of retcon and disappointment, you’re asking for a ratings drop. You’re supposed to draw in and comfort old audiences.
Sylvie is proof-of-concept that there is no reason a female Doctor shouldn't work. And that she can be insecure and vulnerable at times without lacking in badass is basically a triumph of TV writing on the way to normalizing women as main characters. Having two Loki-variants inching towards a relationship, hungry for affection yet afraid of the betrayal they know to be their own failing was a master stroke. That pain and hesitation, because trusting each other means having to believe they themselves can be and do better for each other, that was just making the most meaningful possible scene out of the absurd sci-fi concept you're working with. Same with the loop of Sif kneeing Loki in the crotch. The shift from trying to avoid pain to sincere apology to genuine recognition of his immate flaws was as effective as it was conceptually funny and the ultimate torture for Loki. Seeing him genuinely grow, and then whince at all the other Lokis backstabbing for harebrained plans, being needlessly arrogant and ignorant, that is development sticking for good. Is it a luxury to get a fine-tuned script for exactly the number of episodes you want? Absolutely. Is the budget huge? Yes. But this would have been good if they had cheaper sets and some extraneous episodes, just because they had writers who knew what's up and there was no forced mystery that confused half the team as to who their characters even are.
"There’s nothing wrong with a female Doctor at all" With a good writer with good intentions it should work but in hindsight I'd say that there weren't good intentions and certainly not good writing. They've gone out of their way to make a female Doctor look bad and moronic.
Absolutely true. You nailed it. The one (huge) point you miss is that the regeneration from 12 to 13 is a failure because the writing team is new and very very bad. Chibnall "killed" Missy real quick, with all the other Moffat's creations. And Doctor Who also with the same shot... The BBC does probably has his prints too on the scene of the crime...
I love how perfectly Mobius is able to slap Loki down. Every quip and statement Mobius is able to come up with a patronising & disabling comeback that perfectly humbles & challanges Loki in a way that's necessary to strip back his facade & force Loki to come to terms with his truth & start his journey of self-actualisation & (sort of) heroric repemption. And this is furthered by his time spent with Sylvie & his raising opposition towards the TVA
I understand Loki has a massive budget considering it is a Disney show, but the writing is just incredible. You don't need piles of money to have a good imagination or writing, and Loki has managed to truly use the writing well and take time to think out this truly incredible plot. It has unique and special ideas thrown in and make it feel so incredible. It is imagination and wild dreams applied to a TV screen, in which Doctor Who has failed at recently. I'm all for apocalyptic future earths, but embracing it as a incredible spectical in a semi futuristic Supermarket is just inspired. The world's climate has changed, but keeping it subtle allows for further enjohment of what is happening, unlike a certain episode called "Orphan 55"
Doctor Who could totally make episodes of this quality on their lower budget it. Loki hasn’t even done anything that conceptually ambitious. It isn’t like there is an Endgame scale battle. Most of it takes place in the TVA HQ and other kind of mundane locations. The only alien planet we go to is really a big rock quarry
@@joe94c one thing is that Loki's power level seems very inconsistent if the people he is fighting against are just normal humans, and the show hasn't done the best job of showing how that's not the case. Like the TVA agents all appear human but who knows what kind of cybernetic or genetic improvements they've had done on them, and they obviously have incredibly advanced technology. The humans that were possessed by Sylvie that Loki fought seemed like they had greatly enhanced strength, likely as a side effect of the enchantment, as no normal human can throw someone Loki's size around that easy, especially with Loki's Asgardian strength. And the train guards were likely Xandarian or Kree, and not normal humans, so who knows what their strength level was. That seems to be the main issue with the writing that I've seen people complain about
It is, of course, a lot easier to be fresh and original when you're doing episode 4 of a show as opposed to episode 147. And that's without even considering the massive budget differences. Apart from that, the main difference between Loki and Who is that Loki is allowed to be properly serialised instead of having to wrap up a complete storyline in every episode.
But new doctors generally end up being personality resets. Capaldi returned to the more angry side of Eccleston for example, asking the question of whether he’s a good person, there’s room for stories to be told developing the doctor as a person.
That is actually something I was just talking to my friends about. It is one of the tricks that Marvel uses to keep it feeling fresh. Yes they made 20+ movies, but most of them all have different characters, even Ironman 2 introduced Black Widow and promoted Rhodes to War Machine, only a small handful don't swap up the characters. They also can draw from a myriad of genres. Most of these MCU series will not even get a season 2, and it is doubtful any will get a season 3, they will just keep making new shows with new stories and new characters, and it will go a long way to keeping it from feeling stale.
@@extremetoast5723 It is very hard to do serialised tv and not have a season-long arc. As for episodic tv with a season-long arc; it's no something Doctor Who has seriously tried. Mentioning the words Bad Wolf in every episode isn't an arc.
@@Carabas72 for seasons arc in doctor who I’m thinking more along the lines of the 4 season silence arc that Moffat did, which admittedly he seemed to lose interest in towards the end, hence the rushed ending. And no, it’s not hard to do serialised TV with no season arc, just look at most network comedies, even Doctor Who could still work without it.
"Only Loki is best suited to saving people by showing them joy, mischief and reality" Don't know why, but that line made me smile. Loki's come a long way
loki was shit, loki was a side character in his own show basically pusing the mostly female cast ahead and making the main loki look like an utter idiot and weak. they fucked up.
39:43 Loki Episode 5 Spoilers Richard E Grant Richard E Grant stole the show this episode but I wish they had used more of him. To be written so incredibly to only be killed off in such a powerful way is frustrating. However I do think Richard E Grant was used alot better in Loki then in Doctor Who.
The idea of Sylvie (Female Loki) growing up on a 1,000 ending worlds reminds me of the master looking into the time vortex in season 3 when he was a boy and having that drive him insane.
Loki is like a mix between Doctor Who and Lucifer on Netflix, especially with Loki’s more villainous side, and the religious sub text of the show, of Loki being more of a Satan figure and his fall from grace
@@sigmamale6128 Lucifer suffers from being a police procedural (always formulaic) and not really understanding the mythology they were adapting (you introduce God's wife and you don't even LOOK at Canaanite polytheism? For shame, Fox) but Tom Ellis is very, very good. The whole main cast is, actually. Maze, Linda, Ella, Dan and Trixie are all great (okay, Amenadiel is pretty wooden, D. B. Woodside has zero range, and frankly Chloe isn't very good either, but the rest are great)
Can I also say that the scene where Loki's sexuality was confirmed was done with so much more grace than any of Moffat's cheeky weird stabs towards hints that were winks with any of his characters
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 If a character is even hinted to be bi, putting them in a relationship with someone of a different gender is not 'making them straight', unless the character says something stupid about their attraction to the same gender being 'a phase'. Moffat's wink wink nudge nudge might be annoying non-committal but please don't contribute to Bi erasure by decrying a bi character /person's attraction to another gender as 'turning straight'.
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 I'm not saying it's good bi rep but a bi person doesn't magically stop being bi when they date someone of a different gender. I don't like Moffat's non committal nonsense either but he at least implied Clara and the Doctor were bi or pan and that's how I headcanon them until a better writer confirms out outright. Danny Pink and River Song don't change that. Nor does Sylvie make Loki less Bi.
@@ClaireWritesSometimes I heard he made lesbian characters straight, I wasn't talking about Clara and The Doctor. It's only accidental bi rep, though Jack Harkness ain't a good portrayal either.
If Who had been canned every time someone said that "everyone has given up on it" or that "it's ruined" we wouldn't even have gotten a second season back in the days. xD Like Barry Hood said, fortunately this does not tend to stick. And I for one am still here for the ride and happy with it. ;)
@@TheDelinear : I hope you're right, but we're in the XXIth century and things (and medias) are changing so fast !... And not in a good direction, in my opinion...
I used to laugh at the idea that Hiddleston should play The Doctor. Yeah, I liked him as Loki, but I didn't think he could pull off playing a character like The Doctor. Then the Loki series comes and and he plays Doctor Loki. Heck, I thought Sylvie's actress played a better female Doctor than Jodie Whittaker.
Personally, I want New Loki to team up with the Guardians. I think their personalities contrast with his in all the right ways, and you could have a lot of fun with that, but also show new sides of them.
Yeah I still hope for a happy ending where this Loki and Sylvie (now as a couple) meet Thor and the Guardians. I know. Doubtful. But I would absolutely go out of the sattle. :D
@@balrog0444 How are they siblings. 😂 They are from different realities. They are just the person in the same spot of their reality. I mean I won't argue that it isn't kinda weird when you think longer about it, cause I mean, even Marvel says it (Mobius' dialogue in episode 4), but they are both so different characterwise that I don't give the slightest... you know what about that. :D I just like the idea of two persons who were alone all their lives and were outcasts, Loki a little bit more subliminal than Sylvie of course but outcast nonetheless, find each other and form a connection that makes them feel that someone actually loves them. And the way it's written and acted too. So yeah. I adore it and I ship it. End of story. :'D
Definitely feel what you’re saying on how DW has changed. I still watch it, hoping that it improves but the ret con is a bit of a joke and takes away from the character of the doctor. It’s also kind of sad seeing a show that was so beloved, become one that is meh or ok. Great thought experiment/vid essay on a positive note. I was getting strong doctor/master vibes from Toms performance
I was in that place with S12 but I honestly just feel like a mug continuing on after the finale. I appreciate wanting to stick with it, I think its just time for me!
LOL there is a bit of me that feels like the studio is taking the mick and bleeding my loyalty. I’m still deciding if I’ll do S13 but honestly I think I’ll just love the re runs and take capaldis run (my personal fave) as the finale
May I ask why you think the Timeless Child is a joke, or a retcon? You do realise that it was The Lonely Assassin that retconned The Morbius Doctors, which were definitely meant to be pre-Hartnell incarnations (as per Hinchcliffe himself)? So Chibnall is actually re-canonising the Morbius Doctors, as well as finally making use of what was mentioned of Cartmell's masterplan during McCoy's run. It solves way more plot-holes than it creates, and even the ones it creates can be explained much easier than some other things in the show. Sometimes I feel like many don't know the show's history well enough, and thus think it's a retcon when really it is not. Which is another reason why Who and Loki can't be compared. Who has a 50+ years legacy to work with, whereas the MCU and especially Loki are just taking hints from the comics but are otherwise free to do their own stuff with only a limited amount of plot points to consider (in Loki's case).
@@ayamira8589 during the 7th doctor era, they toyed with the idea of making the doctor into a powerful and mysterious being who was part of the triumvirate. Thank god they didn’t. The doctor as the timeless child for me takes away more than it gives. Do I think it’s impossible to make this story work? No. Do I think chibnall is the guy for it? Also no. Now that gallifrey has been found maybe they feel the doctor needs another mystery but I feel they miss the point. Also would like to add that it’s not fair to assume that others aren’t invested in the classic series as yourself.
"Star Trek Discovery" "Picard" "Star Wars 7, 8, 9" "Post Capaldi Dr Who" I've taken the decision to step away from it. You get good sci-fi where you can find it. Recently I enjoyed "Resident Alien" that was fun. Produced by Robert Duncan McNeill (Tom Paris)
were discovery and picard really as bad as the star wars sequels? I only watched a little of discovery, and aside from """"spock"""" being horrrrrrribly miscast, I didn't really see anything wrong with that series. does it jump the shark later on?
@@TheSonicShoe It's fine for anyone to enjoy as long as you don't care about, story structure, logic, the spirit of the series, that there are so many unlikable characters, the wokeness, the Mary Sues, I can go on but it's depressing.
After being an obsessed Doctor Who fan since my first memory, I gave up on Whittaker halfway through Kerblam and haven't returned. So yes, Loki is certainly fulfilling a need. The detail is intense.
Never watched Doctor Who. But i gotta say, Marvel gets props for actually making me care about a character i personally never liked in the past. Good on them
@@InTenZeGamingHD The 12th doctor's story is incredible too. His development from an indifferent ass who didn't even bother to remember who his friends were (when he confused Clara and Strax) to the end of S10 that made me cry like no other episode of Doctor Who before - he deserves so much more love. Peter Capaldi didn't just play the doctor, he was him.
@@JuLiane I had no problem with Capaldi as Doctor, but I couldn't stand how they ruined Clara. In Smith's era, she was the best companion Doctor has ever had. She was perfect. Then Smith changed into Capaldi and she completely changed her personality to bitching and neurotic. I simply had to stop watching because of what they did to her.
I enjoy Dr. Who and Loki. I am glad that I am not the only one to see the similarities. While every regeneration is not a fan favorite there is always the next Doctor to look forward to. Hopefully Loki will push Dr. Who to be better. The best episodes are those that previous Doctors interact with the present Doctor. So let us look forward to Dr. Who’s 60 anniversary. 60 years of storytelling, there are bound to be ups and downs. In the meantime I enjoy traveling with the Doctor and Loki.
One of the strongest parallels I saw was a relatively small but specific one: the notion of a weapon that appears to disintegrate its victims, but which we learn later was actually teleporting them to a prison of some sort. And I completely agree with them having a responsibility to do it right and shut up all the sexist naysayers. I felt the same way about the Ghostbusters reboot.
12:15 I think one explanation for Thor’s sudden change in personality was due to the amount of time he had spent on Earth, by the time Ragnarok takes place, he would of first came to earth almost 6 years ago. I’d imagine his time spent on earth changed him and made him lighten up a little bit. Obviously the real world explanation is the first two Thor movies just didn’t do as good as other MCU movies and as an audience member it’s sort of hard to relate or connect with a character who sounds like he’s in a Shakespeare play so Marvel knew they had to switch something up with the Thor movies.
Jesus, you actually hit the jackpot with the comparison. I was wondering what felt familiar. Loki's mannerism and how just wacky the show gets with gripping story and charismatic characters.
@@TheJadedJames I wasn't a fan of Matt Smith nor did I enjoy Clara, so series 10 was a fantastic change of pace. If only the momentum from it remained in the 11th series instead of feeling flat.
@@daedalus6433 whaaat series 8 and 9 were awesome, Clara got WAY better after series 7, Capaldi was of course the best, and there were some absolutely epic storylines that are some of my favorites of all time, heaven sent, listen, mummy, under the lake/before the flood, and I love almost every other episode lol, sure some are better than others but they were still really solid series. but series 10 was really good and consistent, and it changed up the formula and added some fresh elements that worked really well. and that finale, wow. now im depressed thinking about how awfully this show has been handled.
18:50 I would compare to Sylvie more to River Song, A mysterious female with a strong connection to our hero, kidnapped at a young age, shown to be able to compare/outwit our hero, make Sylvie more flirtatious and you have River Song.
@@FullFatVideos I joked on twitter that Loki.was basically revisiting Doctor Who's best episodes (Fires of Pompeii, Utopia, there's some tonal comparisons to be made to Midnight and visual similarities to Silence in the Library) and wondered hakf jokingly if The Pandorica Opens, my favourite episode, would be next!
When I saw lady loki I immediatly thought, "oh are they gonna make this loki superior to our loki" or "are they gonna make sylvie overshadow our loki?" But I am so glad that they both build off of eachother and both have thier weaknesses.
I'm surprised at how much I've been enjoying this show. I was never quite as enamored with Loki as everyone else seemed to be but now that you've run through the comparisons so thoroughly, I can understand why I like the show as much as I do. It reminded me so much of when I met the Doctor way back when he was number 9.
After Tom Hiddleston's done you could even have a regeneration counterpart by picking up on an alternate reality version of Loki to steer the show in a new unique direction that could just go on for ever and not get old.
Personally, I disagree. ‘Loki’ is more like if The Master had their own spin-off, but I can definitely see why people would compare ‘Who’ to this. (BTW, I thought Series 12 was fantastic and I’m excited for where the show goes from there. I know how that’s going to make me sound to certain fans, but it’s MY opinion and I’m not ashamed to say it.)
It was really only the third episode that gave me "This is just Doctor Who with a budget" vibes. But that was only insofar as the setting and the relationship between Loki and Sylvie playing out sort of like what you'd see with Doctors and new companions or alternate versions of the Doctor. The show is overall serialized enough that it is maybe more like Doctor Who sort of if you boiled out all the adventure of the week material and it was entirely built up of stuff like The Pandorica Opens or Hell Bent where the Doctor faces some huge cosmic threat
I'm watching the newest Efap video where u are and I gotta respect the way u came into the discussion. You were open to ideas and listened what the other were saying. (Unlike other guest) and even tho u might have different opinions to them, u were still understanding and kind. Hope to see you in Efap some other time, man! :)
I love how Loki’s redemption is genuine and earnest, drawing on his internal desires for love and companionship. He wanted to feel loved and be acknowledged by his family but he realised he was, he saw how his actions affected the people that he loved. He realised he was loved, but his actions made him lose that. His actions brought suffering to everyone. And he discovered that his life ended as a joke, dead. He saw that there was no use for trickster Loki, because trickster Loki only brought pain to everyone else and him
I'm not enjoying the chibnall era of doctor who at all, but they definitely have the best looking special effects to date. Too bad they couldn't spend more money on writing a good script.
To write a good script, you don't need a lot of money; you need someone who knows how to write and who is passioned by his job, his characters... DW always had been known for his cheap special effects and good ideas. For sure, they've put more money in the 'making'; but the scripts are so weak and comon !... They should have stay with the same recipe, instead wanting to copy the US series : That was an absurd move, for sure !
Dude, all these mashup edits are incredible. A very interesting comparison. Never really thought about it as I stopped watching DW after being disappointed by the start of Capaldi's run(I'd just stay relatively updated through your videos). But the Loki show felt really fun and familiar, and you made me realise why. Loki truly is Marvels time-lord! I've really been enjoying the whovian flare in this series. Great video!!!!!!!
Dr Who apparently would be a pain to aquire rights for. They don't own the Daleks for instance, so whoever bought the show would have to deal with Terry Nation estate
The idea of Sylvie (Female Loki) growing up on a 1,000 ending worlds reminds me of the master looking into the time vortex in season 3 when he was a boy and having that drive him insane.
@@jwec9867 A podcast that looks at bad video essays and THIS one has been selected. Being chosen by Efap is exposure, but it's a negative exposure. You're only choice is to either ignore it and hope the negative feedback dies down, or do what Downard Thrust did and commit some self reflection.
Hiddleston HAS to be cast as the Doctor at some point in our lifetime, right? It just HAS to happen. I don't care if I have to wait 20 years for it. I am all for an old Tom playing the Doctor !
i'm not from the UK or the US but internationally speaking i could say doctor who peaked during eleven's era (2011-2014 were the days, i was literally part of the superwholock bunch) and honestly all i can think of is how sylvie in the loki show is definitely what jodie as thirteen should have been had we not had chibs as dw's current show runner lmao
Im so glad somebody else is talking about this none of my friends watch Who so when we were watching Loki and I was like "this is just like Doctor Who" they were like "wtf are u talking about"
Since Marvel UK lost the rights, But a Captain Britain movie can fix this, Original Size Deaths Head; "You are under arrest again , Yes, What ever you are? , You are not the Doctor any of you ,Yes!
To talk about the intro, yes... Doctor Who is now bad, but it has everything to do with the writers. The actress is honestly pretty good, it's just a shame she didn't have a good team to support her.
I kind of snickered in episode 5 where Renslayer said she had a spaceship which could get them to the end of the timeline. I was half expecting to see a red phone booth parked in a TVA hanger.
Some people said "this could be a Dr who episode" when talking about Loki episode 3... And I was like "why are you saying that as if it was a bad thing?"... I'm loving this show!!! So so much
Actually I heard it was BBC America who cancelled it due to a lack of viewership on their end. The Max Landis stuff going on behind the scenes may have also played a part.
Jane with Thor's power teaming up with Loki would make sense. She wouldn't know how her powers work, given that she's never learned "Asgardian Magic" (which Thor has been learning for hundreds of years) and she doesn't have intergalactic knowledge either... So, she could be put in a situation where she would be stuck juggling between needing Loki and "being stabbed in the back". Loki could help her get back to Earth/Thor, while being tempted to steal Thor's power for himself.
That Cafeteria scene where he snatches food to use to explain the hiding in apocalypses thing was peak Tenth Doctor. Like you could just replace Tom with David Tennant and no one would notice it was not Doctor Who.
Here's my thoughts on the final episode, the Kang reveal and what might come next! th-cam.com/video/P2ibSmvzrU4/w-d-xo.html
Can u do a video on superman and Lois when it ends.
It's a really really good show
The worst thing about the Timeless Child is that it's not a terrible idea. The fact that they made the Doctor the Timeless Child is what was truly terrible. Seriously, if the Doctor had to come to terms with the idea thar his/her powers were stolen from someone else, that could've been amazing.
The final episode was like the architect scene of Matrix reloaded..but with 40 minutes of Boring filling..and talking with a Guy with brain damage
Tom Huddleston would make a great Doctor or Master
th-cam.com/video/eaSV-IIoyAg/w-d-xo.html
,,Thor is now one of the most well rounded characters..." hehe nice...
That was a full fat comment
@@jjstarrprod
"Full Fat" indeed.
I guess you didn't see the set photos from Love and Thunder?
Ha ha fat man is fat...
@Snehil Shrey why are you here?
Can we also appreciate the music within the Loki series? I haven't heard something this good since Murray Gold was composing the soundtracks for Who
thats also true! its been really great!
There was a scene in today’s episode (5) that was amazing!
@@dubbingsync oh man, ep 5 was great!!!!
@@FullFatVideos the music is my favorite part of the show tbh.
Probably my favorite score from teh entire mcu
Yes! Natalie Holt is one of my favourite composers now! (Also her backstory is just amazing too)
Spoiler Alert: Richard E Grant kills it in this Wednesday’s episode
Classic loki was a fucking gem right up to the last second of the episode
Ikr
@@RhodeoMusic He was literally Peak Loki, like I wouldn't doubt it if he faked even his death... he literally fooled Thanos and made a life of his own on another Planet
@@dantefromdevilmaycry9857 honestly man I think your right he just oozed cool, and the T.V.A couldn't just let him mind his own business, really hope he comes back again at some point
It was his glorious purpose!
Spoilers: It was a better use of Richard E. Grant.
Indeed!
He was used for GLORIOUS PURPOSE
One thing I remember from Doctor Who's Pompeii episode is that the Italians didn't have a word for Volcano, so it makes complete sense that people would think Loki is just spouting out random bullshit.
Hahaha, same with me 😁
Before two seconds later, "oh so thaaaat's what that madman was talking about! Speaking of which, AHHHHHHH!"
@@ThePa1riot That one dude there: "This is it, this is my moment of death. Better lay down in this little crevice and rub one out, one last time as the fire liquid of death comes for me. I will come first i promise."
Its 79AD Run for your life!
Speaking of that, there is a channel called Polymathy that reviews Latin in media, and the Latin Loki is actually saying reflects that fact. What Loki actually said, was something along the lines of "That mountain of yours that has suffered fires for centuries, is about to spill the fires all over you".
th-cam.com/video/884XGfeJjCc/w-d-xo.html
"We may lose, sometimes painfully... but we don't die."
- The Doctor - Loki .... if I hadn't seen the episode it could have been either of them!
@@FullFatVideos Especially since the Doctor has met themselves a LOT!
Nice pfp.
@@Im_Evie_Now Thanks; I drew it myself.
Tell that to main mcu Loki lol
"Use him (Richard E Grant) and use him well, marvel"
Marvel: "about that"
Glorious Purpose!!!!
They definitely did.
I’m losing my mind over I Am The Doctor playing over Loki clips PURE SEROTONIN
That was probably my favourite time editing this
That Editing Made my Fangirl Side Reach Infinity on the scale from 1-100!!!
eargasm
I know right? It fit so well.
Me too
Richard E Grant was the best part of episode 5. His story, the feats he pulls, the end of the episode are pure perfection. It's a shame he likely won't be in episode 6 or anything going forward, but here's to hoping because he was amazing.
Funny when you consider he was the doctor in that animated thing before the show was properly revived.
@@theperson8539 glad to know i wasn't the only one thinking of that
“Seven Eleven” “Nine Ele…..” had me laugh out loud
I winced when he corrected himself in a funny way
I respect that rather than keep talking about the version of the show you don't like, you just been talking about other episodes of Dr Who you like instead or providing a new insight like this comparison with Loki.
I don't like the new era of the show either and don't have much confidence in the show going forward. But I'm also *really* sick of hearing about why it's bad cause it's all that anyone seems to want to talk about and they seem to keep hitting the same talking points over and over.
I'm glad! More positive Who videos to come for sure!
@@FullFatVideos Thank you! Looking forward to it!
@@FullFatVideos classic Who by any chance? Your use of trial of a time Lord clips got me excited.
Agreed. I understand the reasons why some people aren't fans of Series 11 and 12, but it's really getting old hearing the same tired arguments and discussions over and over again (same can be said for the discussion around Star Wars Episodes VII - IX). The whole thing is losing its meaning.
I think the worst of Whitaker's series is that they forced her to bleach her hair. How the fuck do you regenerate with dark roots and bleached hair?
I wasn’t the only one thinking Loki was what doctor who should be!
Yes, yes you were
apparently not!
@@GothAtheist The fact that this video exists is evidence that your statement doesn't make sense...
Me and you bud, this is Christopher , David and Rose era kind of doctor who
Yeah, he’s even British 😂
I feel Mr Grant stole every scene he was in on Loki.
damn straight; what an episode!
...only to have it stolen from him by the Loki-gator. :)
@@alancarda5198 Loki Gator - Time Detective 🤔
I was wondering why I fell in love with Loki so quickly, never realized that it he was so like the doctor
hes not
@@sigmamale6128 definitely not but never thought about the show reminding me of doctor wio
I’d would have liked a 2-4 more episodes of Loki-Like most of the Marvel shows, even the good ones, it felt a little rushed. My main issue from a character POV was I felt like this Loki’s redemption arc was far too rushed. In the series, we briefly watch Loki watch a video of the OG Loki’s life & death. This is supposed to be the pivotal moment that makes Variant Loki realize how badly Loki Prime had fucked up. I’m down with that but I felt like Variant Loki’s personal evolution would have hit a lot harder if it hadn’t mostly been an exposition dump. It wasn’t the worst thing ever but if they’d really played their cards right this could have been something HUGE. Loki does redeem himself in Marvel’s main timeline, of course. It’s powerful & it’s tragic. Loki Prime ultimately dies a hero. Variant Loki’s gotten a second chance to actually LIVE as a hero.
I just would have liked to see him come to that realization more organically, with a little less tell & a lot more show.
_"... Good Doctor Who"_
_shows Tennant Doctor_
Yes. You get a like for that.
Tennant era Doctor Who was easily the worst written and worst peformed. I've never encountered a single person educated on the topic of film and television who even likes that era, let alone thinks its the best.
@@branthall1787 ok tour definitely a troll
@@djdoc06 So google search backs up my point that I am yet to meet someone who actually understands the medium of television as well as thinks Tennant was a good doctor?
Pray tell; what did tennant do besides overact and chew the scenery? He was the most formulaic Doctor imaginable. Every episode and series was the same. Guns, guns, damsel in distress, tennant shouting angrily for no reason, stupid word like "allons y", more guns...
@@WoodsAreBeautiful You're*
You can't even spell and yet you think you're the one in the right?
@@djdoc06 I've literally just stated why he's the worst you imbecile. Extremely over formulaic ham actor who did nothing but chew the scenery. Literally every episode of his run is proof of that.
Richard had like 5 minutes and was instantly iconic, bloody fantastic
I'm so fucking happy about Richard E Grant's role!
How have I, a huge Neil Gaiman fan, not yet drawn the "this feels like Gaiman" connection when it comes to this show?
So, petition for Gaiman to write on the second season if it happens...?
A Gaiman episode would be cool, but I'm happy for Micheal Waldron to continue doing them!
@@FullFatVideos Disney sends they’re regards
You can't make someone work on something.
Second season is already been confirmed.
@@tellmesomething2412 Hold your Horse there Pal! Producer Nate Moore said that it *likely* to have a second season. Nobody else that works with marvel said anything else.
"Richard E Grant is wasted in Doctor Who"
*screams in shalka*
Come on
Funny to think that Jacobi was the Master in that
Ironically the best he has been in Doctor Who was that Children in Need special, also written by Moffat.
@@linkofvev Doctor Simeon was a pretty good performance
C'mon, his best performance in Doctor Who is in The Curse of Fatal Death.
Okay, but EPISODE FIVE. I think this video would have doubled in length.
Yes! So excited and sad at the same time for the finale next week! I doubt there will be a season 2.
@@brian72999 season 2 is already confirmed by Feige.
Was awesome. Richard E Grants scene…..
alligator Loki is my favorite Loki
A better use of Richard E. Grant indeed, that whole scene was awesome!
I wish we coulda got more of him, but honestly this feels like a wandavision doctor strange cameo situation where while cool as it may have been, it woulda taken away a little from the main story being about Sylvie, Loki, Mobius, & (although we haven't seen perhaps as much of her) Ravonna.
Are you going to make an video about episode 5 and 6
Imagine if Mobius turned out to be a profesional Jedskier in his actual life LOL
I will accept nothing less! My man Mobius DESERVES it.
And we get a scene with him on a jetski saying "wow" .... Chef's kiss
Comes out a TVA Door way while doing a barrel roll
straight into a Dr Strange portal to Tahiti, You can thank me later 🤣
Even funnier!
Deadite on a Jet ski or Ash and Multiverse of Madness is complete!
Or jet skiing down the back of a variant Godzilla!
Its a Magical place.
Sophia Di Martino is a pretty good actress, I'm glad she's getting more recognition in Loki. I didn't even realise she was Emma in Friday Night Dinner!
She also was in holby city for a bit so she’s definitely gone for a big hollywood break
Sylvia’s still a little flat as a character but she does a low with what she’s given. I’m not even blaming the showrunners roo much for this. At some point in the last decade or so Disney execs fully embraced the Mary Sue. It almost feels like Marvel & Disney writers aren’t even allowed to give major female characters much any defining characteristics beyond being The Strong Woman. Some of their writers have rebelled (Hawkeye wrote some solid female characters) as have some of the actresses themselves. I started off hating Sylvia but Sophia finally won me over. 🙂
I just feel sad about doctor who tbh, I used to be obsessed, I STILL remember many of the episode plots AND titles from Eccleston, tenant and smiths eras, there's literally no other series that has episodes this memorable to me. I might just watch capaldi's run down the line but it's sad seeing how it's declined since it's golden era.
Capaldi is the best doctor, watch it and you wont regret it
Definitely recommend Capaldi's run. I think it just kept getting better as it went on but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Man was born to be the Doctor
The Capaldi era was fantastic, I had trouble getting into it at first, especially after still "mourning" Smith's departure, but as it went on I came to really love it. Capaldi brought a brilliant side to the Doctor and I was really sad and teary-eyed when he regenerated/left.
Capaldis run was a great one and for me was the last time the show was great
I really like Capaldi's run. It also feels like a good conclusion to modern Who if you want to ignore what's next
It almost feels like Doctor Who has gotten lazy. There haven't been many Sci-Fi shows that compete with it on a bigger scale. Loki is the first one to step up on a huge scale and it just shows the problems with the current direction of the show.
I don't know, I have a lot of friends who like the newest Doctor Who, and it seems to match their attitude on Brexit perfectly. They thought that the referendum was lost because most people in the country are stupid and need to be lectured at with the message the EU is great, over and over again. I'm not sure if that's what they really think, it's just the impression I get from talking to them. When talking to them about how I don't like the new Doctor Who slamming messages in your face like you're a child they repeat their idea about people being too stupid to understand otherwise. I get the impression that this is what a lot of the current writers if doctor who think too, as they are the same sort of people.
honestly loki is pretty much worse, it doesnt follow anything from whats happened in endgame, i mean the arrested loki for escaping and when loki points out he only escaped cause tony and steve time travelled, but APPERENTLY them time travelling was supposed to happen, which means that steve and tony going back to world war 2 to retrieve the teseract was also supposed to happen, but guess wat the only reason y tony and steve had to go to that time was because, Loki took the teseract and whooshed off, meaning Loki escaping was supposed to happen. Also the TVA destroyed the timeline that they found Loki in, WHICH IS STILL THE SAME TIMELINE THE ENTIRE AVENGERS TEAM WERE TAKING THE INFINITY STONES FROM, meaning since the TVA destroyed that entire, timeline, there was no timeline for steve to return the stones too, because it was deleted, and we already know thats not true because in endgame steve is still within the timeline and has lived through it meaning he fixed time, but according to Loki series, the TVA destroyed it meaning no timeline for steve to go to meaning steve would be creating a different timeline where there are now 2 of each infinity stones, since the stones were never taken from those timelines, tell me how does this make Loki a good show its just as dogshit as Doctor Who has become.
@Eythyn Thomas Kutty
You are pathethic if one logical flaw makes the entire show dogshit. News Flash, so would every other Time Travel plot be, they always have a flaw.
Hell, the flaw originates in Endgame, not Loki. Based on the pre-established laws of that movie Steve shouldn't even have been able to bring back the stones as they were not changing the past. Hence travelling to a changed past would be an impossibility.
Lastly, are you seriously complaining about the TVA's claim that Endgame was supposed to happen as it did? When they have been lying through their teeth for 5 episodes now?
Come on!
The show even establishes how small things don't disturb the sacred timeline so long as they don't affect the big picture. The whole apocalypse thing and the existence of multiple Loki's is literally based on that concept.
So if the TVA wants the Avengers to get the stones and undo the snap, then I doubt insignificant fluctuations like where they got it from matters.
The show isn't dogshit for any of the reasons you implied, you just lack the basic comprehension skills to follow it even when it literally spells it out for you.
@@mavsworld1733 .... how did you manage to make doctor who about Brexit
@@bigcnmmerb0873 When the TVA pruned the Loki timeline from Endgame, they pruned _specifically_ the timeline branch caused by Loki's escape, as all branches caused by the stones being taken were reconnected by Steve returning the stones. Likewise, there was no branch to prune from Steve taking the Tesseract and Pym particles from SHIELD, since, like the rest of the stones, they were replaced mere moments after they were taken.
I do find it likely, however, that the TVA pruned the branch caused by 2014 Thanos's jaunt over to 2023, but again, the stones wouldn't be affected, as they were already replaced.
Loki is doing what Doctor who can’t. Sylvie is actually what I hoped the 13th to be. A touch of 10, with a hint of 12 and Missy. That PROVES the regeneration 12 had into 13 had some effect on the interaction with Missy. The regeneration 13 is a reflection of the past like 12s “who framed me this face” arc. The 13th Doctor is cowardly and the Timeless Child is pointless. They shouldn’t have ruined their chances on retconning the Doctors past while having the biggest risk (a female doctor) still going on. There’s nothing wrong with a female Doctor at all, but if you’re willing to alienate your audience with forcing them to accept this current storyline of retcon and disappointment, you’re asking for a ratings drop. You’re supposed to draw in and comfort old audiences.
Sylvie is proof-of-concept that there is no reason a female Doctor shouldn't work.
And that she can be insecure and vulnerable at times without lacking in badass is basically a triumph of TV writing on the way to normalizing women as main characters.
Having two Loki-variants inching towards a relationship, hungry for affection yet afraid of the betrayal they know to be their own failing was a master stroke.
That pain and hesitation, because trusting each other means having to believe they themselves can be and do better for each other, that was just making the most meaningful possible scene out of the absurd sci-fi concept you're working with.
Same with the loop of Sif kneeing Loki in the crotch. The shift from trying to avoid pain to sincere apology to genuine recognition of his immate flaws was as effective as it was conceptually funny and the ultimate torture for Loki.
Seeing him genuinely grow, and then whince at all the other Lokis backstabbing for harebrained plans, being needlessly arrogant and ignorant, that is development sticking for good.
Is it a luxury to get a fine-tuned script for exactly the number of episodes you want? Absolutely. Is the budget huge? Yes. But this would have been good if they had cheaper sets and some extraneous episodes, just because they had writers who knew what's up and there was no forced mystery that confused half the team as to who their characters even are.
"There’s nothing wrong with a female Doctor at all" With a good writer with good intentions it should work but in hindsight I'd say that there weren't good intentions and certainly not good writing. They've gone out of their way to make a female Doctor look bad and moronic.
@@ariesroc yeah, the female Doctor was done more for political points I thought - the show definitely didn't need it
Absolutely true. You nailed it. The one (huge) point you miss is that the regeneration from 12 to 13 is a failure because the writing team is new and very very bad. Chibnall "killed" Missy real quick, with all the other Moffat's creations. And Doctor Who also with the same shot...
The BBC does probably has his prints too on the scene of the crime...
@@philippebernard4577 true!!
"Thats where I grew up. The ends of a 1000 worlds..."
That line alone made the series.
I love how perfectly Mobius is able to slap Loki down. Every quip and statement Mobius is able to come up with a patronising & disabling comeback that perfectly humbles & challanges Loki in a way that's necessary to strip back his facade & force Loki to come to terms with his truth & start his journey of self-actualisation & (sort of) heroric repemption. And this is furthered by his time spent with Sylvie & his raising opposition towards the TVA
He’s a brilliant counterweight to Loki. Who would have thought after all these years Loki’s match would be Owen Wilson!
@@FullFatVideos "Wow!"
Absolutely. Whoever had the idea to cast Owen Wilson needs a raise!
This is legitimately fascinating...
thanks!
I understand Loki has a massive budget considering it is a Disney show, but the writing is just incredible. You don't need piles of money to have a good imagination or writing, and Loki has managed to truly use the writing well and take time to think out this truly incredible plot. It has unique and special ideas thrown in and make it feel so incredible. It is imagination and wild dreams applied to a TV screen, in which Doctor Who has failed at recently. I'm all for apocalyptic future earths, but embracing it as a incredible spectical in a semi futuristic Supermarket is just inspired. The world's climate has changed, but keeping it subtle allows for further enjohment of what is happening, unlike a certain episode called "Orphan 55"
Doctor Who could totally make episodes of this quality on their lower budget it. Loki hasn’t even done anything that conceptually ambitious. It isn’t like there is an Endgame scale battle. Most of it takes place in the TVA HQ and other kind of mundane locations. The only alien planet we go to is really a big rock quarry
I see people complaining a out the writing and I really don't get why
@@joe94c one thing is that Loki's power level seems very inconsistent if the people he is fighting against are just normal humans, and the show hasn't done the best job of showing how that's not the case. Like the TVA agents all appear human but who knows what kind of cybernetic or genetic improvements they've had done on them, and they obviously have incredibly advanced technology. The humans that were possessed by Sylvie that Loki fought seemed like they had greatly enhanced strength, likely as a side effect of the enchantment, as no normal human can throw someone Loki's size around that easy, especially with Loki's Asgardian strength. And the train guards were likely Xandarian or Kree, and not normal humans, so who knows what their strength level was. That seems to be the main issue with the writing that I've seen people complain about
@@adc1222 even I've had a problem with the power levels. Everything else has been grear
@@SPDRM what? Are you one of those complaining about a shape shifters gender?
It is, of course, a lot easier to be fresh and original when you're doing episode 4 of a show as opposed to episode 147. And that's without even considering the massive budget differences.
Apart from that, the main difference between Loki and Who is that Loki is allowed to be properly serialised instead of having to wrap up a complete storyline in every episode.
But new doctors generally end up being personality resets. Capaldi returned to the more angry side of Eccleston for example, asking the question of whether he’s a good person, there’s room for stories to be told developing the doctor as a person.
@@HudsonMedia people act like you can’t have serialised TV and also a season long arc
That is actually something I was just talking to my friends about. It is one of the tricks that Marvel uses to keep it feeling fresh. Yes they made 20+ movies, but most of them all have different characters, even Ironman 2 introduced Black Widow and promoted Rhodes to War Machine, only a small handful don't swap up the characters. They also can draw from a myriad of genres.
Most of these MCU series will not even get a season 2, and it is doubtful any will get a season 3, they will just keep making new shows with new stories and new characters, and it will go a long way to keeping it from feeling stale.
@@extremetoast5723
It is very hard to do serialised tv and not have a season-long arc.
As for episodic tv with a season-long arc; it's no something Doctor Who has seriously tried. Mentioning the words Bad Wolf in every episode isn't an arc.
@@Carabas72 for seasons arc in doctor who I’m thinking more along the lines of the 4 season silence arc that Moffat did, which admittedly he seemed to lose interest in towards the end, hence the rushed ending.
And no, it’s not hard to do serialised TV with no season arc, just look at most network comedies, even Doctor Who could still work without it.
"Only Loki is best suited to saving people by showing them joy, mischief and reality" Don't know why, but that line made me smile. Loki's come a long way
"Use him, and use him well, Marvel."
And they did. Holy cows, they did.
loki was shit, loki was a side character in his own show basically pusing the mostly female cast ahead and making the main loki look like an utter idiot and weak. they fucked up.
@@sigmamale6128 k
@@sigmamale6128 k
@@sigmamale6128 k
@@sigmamale6128 к
To be honest, Asguard looks way more beautiful than Gallifrey. If Asguard constantly had a beautiful orange sunset, you’d have your perfect gallifrey
I totally agree!
No, the Citadel in the bubble is more Who.
Starlight Citadel, Marvel UK
39:43
Loki Episode 5 Spoilers Richard E Grant
Richard E Grant stole the show this episode but I wish they had used more of him. To be written so incredibly to only be killed off in such a powerful way is frustrating.
However I do think Richard E Grant was used alot better in Loki then in Doctor Who.
I think it was fantastic honestly, couldn’t be happier
@@FullFatVideos Yeah he was used brilliantly and perfect for the role of Classic Loki.
The idea of Sylvie (Female Loki) growing up on a 1,000 ending worlds reminds me of the master looking into the time vortex in season 3 when he was a boy and having that drive him insane.
Loki is like a mix between Doctor Who and Lucifer on Netflix, especially with Loki’s more villainous side, and the religious sub text of the show, of Loki being more of a Satan figure and his fall from grace
indeed i can see some lucifer parallels
He's got the humorous side like Discord from MLP
lucifer is utter garbage, honestly one of the stupidest and worst acted shows ive ever seen, something to rival the stupidity of the flash tv series.
@@sigmamale6128 Lucifer suffers from being a police procedural (always formulaic) and not really understanding the mythology they were adapting (you introduce God's wife and you don't even LOOK at Canaanite polytheism? For shame, Fox) but Tom Ellis is very, very good. The whole main cast is, actually. Maze, Linda, Ella, Dan and Trixie are all great (okay, Amenadiel is pretty wooden, D. B. Woodside has zero range, and frankly Chloe isn't very good either, but the rest are great)
@@TheFunnyGuy9000 Lmao, Yes!
Dude, I’m only 1/4 thru the video, but I just wanted to say that I just love this!
Thanks T-dog!
Can I also say that the scene where Loki's sexuality was confirmed was done with so much more grace than any of Moffat's cheeky weird stabs towards hints that were winks with any of his characters
Characters he made straight again or killed off anyway
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 If a character is even hinted to be bi, putting them in a relationship with someone of a different gender is not 'making them straight', unless the character says something stupid about their attraction to the same gender being 'a phase'. Moffat's wink wink nudge nudge might be annoying non-committal but please don't contribute to Bi erasure by decrying a bi character /person's attraction to another gender as 'turning straight'.
@@ClaireWritesSometimes Imagine defending straightwashing as bi rep. I also said he kills them off a lot, did this in Sherlock too
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 I'm not saying it's good bi rep but a bi person doesn't magically stop being bi when they date someone of a different gender.
I don't like Moffat's non committal nonsense either but he at least implied Clara and the Doctor were bi or pan and that's how I headcanon them until a better writer confirms out outright. Danny Pink and River Song don't change that. Nor does Sylvie make Loki less Bi.
@@ClaireWritesSometimes I heard he made lesbian characters straight, I wasn't talking about Clara and The Doctor. It's only accidental bi rep, though Jack Harkness ain't a good portrayal either.
i appreciate how detailed u make these videos they must take forever to make, and i think everyone has given up on doctor who for the time being.
i try and turn them around as quickly as possible!
I was there the previous two times everyone gave up on the Doctor. Fortunately it tends not to stick :)
If Who had been canned every time someone said that "everyone has given up on it" or that "it's ruined" we wouldn't even have gotten a second season back in the days. xD
Like Barry Hood said, fortunately this does not tend to stick. And I for one am still here for the ride and happy with it. ;)
@@TheDelinear : I hope you're right, but we're in the XXIth century and things (and medias) are changing so fast !... And not in a good direction, in my opinion...
I really hope Mobius gets his jetski. He sounds so happy when talking about it. GIVE THE MAN A JETSKI!
I used to laugh at the idea that Hiddleston should play The Doctor. Yeah, I liked him as Loki, but I didn't think he could pull off playing a character like The Doctor. Then the Loki series comes and and he plays Doctor Loki. Heck, I thought Sylvie's actress played a better female Doctor than Jodie Whittaker.
Personally, I want New Loki to team up with the Guardians. I think their personalities contrast with his in all the right ways, and you could have a lot of fun with that, but also show new sides of them.
Yesh this would be amazing
Yeah I still hope for a happy ending where this Loki and Sylvie (now as a couple) meet Thor and the Guardians. I know. Doubtful. But I would absolutely go out of the sattle. :D
@@Kronse2601 Sylvie X Loki is cute at first, but when you stop and think about it, the fact that they're biologically siblings makes it really weird.
@@balrog0444 How are they siblings. 😂
They are from different realities. They are just the person in the same spot of their reality. I mean I won't argue that it isn't kinda weird when you think longer about it, cause I mean, even Marvel says it (Mobius' dialogue in episode 4), but they are both so different characterwise that I don't give the slightest... you know what about that. :D
I just like the idea of two persons who were alone all their lives and were outcasts, Loki a little bit more subliminal than Sylvie of course but outcast nonetheless, find each other and form a connection that makes them feel that someone actually loves them. And the way it's written and acted too. So yeah.
I adore it and I ship it. End of story. :'D
@balrog0444 Thor: Go fuck yourself
Loki: Okay
maybe the real loki was the friends we made along the way
He is a shapeshifter, so..............
Hopefully a better use of Richard E Grant..... "Glorious purpose"
"tell me this doesn't sound like the Doctor" oh my god, it DOES
All I can say between Loki and Doctor Who is: Loki is The Master
+
I agree 100%. Loki is what I need right now. God I’m loving all of these Marvel shows.
Loki was not what I was expecting but I was so happy it came out!
Definitely feel what you’re saying on how DW has changed. I still watch it, hoping that it improves but the ret con is a bit of a joke and takes away from the character of the doctor. It’s also kind of sad seeing a show that was so beloved, become one that is meh or ok. Great thought experiment/vid essay on a positive note. I was getting strong doctor/master vibes from Toms performance
I was in that place with S12 but I honestly just feel like a mug continuing on after the finale. I appreciate wanting to stick with it, I think its just time for me!
LOL there is a bit of me that feels like the studio is taking the mick and bleeding my loyalty. I’m still deciding if I’ll do S13 but honestly I think I’ll just love the re runs and take capaldis run (my personal fave) as the finale
The only way Doctor Who will improve is to fire Chris Chibnall
May I ask why you think the Timeless Child is a joke, or a retcon? You do realise that it was The Lonely Assassin that retconned The Morbius Doctors, which were definitely meant to be pre-Hartnell incarnations (as per Hinchcliffe himself)? So Chibnall is actually re-canonising the Morbius Doctors, as well as finally making use of what was mentioned of Cartmell's masterplan during McCoy's run. It solves way more plot-holes than it creates, and even the ones it creates can be explained much easier than some other things in the show. Sometimes I feel like many don't know the show's history well enough, and thus think it's a retcon when really it is not. Which is another reason why Who and Loki can't be compared. Who has a 50+ years legacy to work with, whereas the MCU and especially Loki are just taking hints from the comics but are otherwise free to do their own stuff with only a limited amount of plot points to consider (in Loki's case).
@@ayamira8589 during the 7th doctor era, they toyed with the idea of making the doctor into a powerful and mysterious being who was part of the triumvirate. Thank god they didn’t. The doctor as the timeless child for me takes away more than it gives. Do I think it’s impossible to make this story work? No. Do I think chibnall is the guy for it? Also no. Now that gallifrey has been found maybe they feel the doctor needs another mystery but I feel they miss the point. Also would like to add that it’s not fair to assume that others aren’t invested in the classic series as yourself.
"Star Trek Discovery" "Picard" "Star Wars 7, 8, 9" "Post Capaldi Dr Who"
I've taken the decision to step away from it.
You get good sci-fi where you can find it. Recently I enjoyed "Resident Alien" that was fun. Produced by Robert Duncan McNeill (Tom Paris)
were discovery and picard really as bad as the star wars sequels? I only watched a little of discovery, and aside from """"spock"""" being horrrrrrribly miscast, I didn't really see anything wrong with that series. does it jump the shark later on?
@@TheSonicShoe It's fine for anyone to enjoy as long as you don't care about, story structure, logic, the spirit of the series, that there are so many unlikable characters, the wokeness, the Mary Sues, I can go on but it's depressing.
Try The Expanse, its very good, but less scifi than marvel or doctor who universe (hope that made sense)
@@TheSonicShoe In my opinion, Discovery keeps getting better every season! The latest was especially good.
@@IceTemple13 Even ignoring the tech it just shits on what we know about the period from prior shows.
"Silvie is like 9 and Elev- Matt Smiths doctor."
😶😲😶 ???
Silvie behaves like a mature Clara in Loki.
"Nine and Eleve-... Matt Smith's Doctor!" Had me dying.
After being an obsessed Doctor Who fan since my first memory, I gave up on Whittaker halfway through Kerblam and haven't returned. So yes, Loki is certainly fulfilling a need. The detail is intense.
Original Size Deaths Head; "You are under arrest again , Yes, What ever you are? , You are not the Doctor any of you ,Yes!
Never watched Doctor Who.
But i gotta say, Marvel gets props for actually making me care about a character i personally never liked in the past.
Good on them
Highly recommend it if you like Loki. Watch from the 2005 series, it stays good until the 11th dies but has some great episodes after.
@@InTenZeGamingHD The 12th doctor's story is incredible too. His development from an indifferent ass who didn't even bother to remember who his friends were (when he confused Clara and Strax) to the end of S10 that made me cry like no other episode of Doctor Who before - he deserves so much more love. Peter Capaldi didn't just play the doctor, he was him.
@@JuLiane I had no problem with Capaldi as Doctor, but I couldn't stand how they ruined Clara. In Smith's era, she was the best companion Doctor has ever had. She was perfect.
Then Smith changed into Capaldi and she completely changed her personality to bitching and neurotic. I simply had to stop watching because of what they did to her.
Was it just me who thought good doctor who was the antidote for bad doctor who?
show me some receipts for good doctor who in the last four years though?
@@FullFatVideos Demons of the Punjab, Spyfall Part 1... some parts of Can You Hear Me? (shakes box) Nope, that's about it
Good Dr. Who doesn't exist right now, but if you need something for now Loki is a good fix.
I mean I think you are all forgetting about the brilliant work Big Finish had been doing.
@@gilded_lady Don't forget the 60s lost episodes animations BBC is releasing recently, those are some great content
I enjoy Dr. Who and Loki.
I am glad that I am not the only one to see the similarities.
While every regeneration is not a fan favorite there is always the next Doctor to look forward to. Hopefully Loki will push Dr. Who to be better. The best episodes are those that previous Doctors interact with the present Doctor. So let us look forward to Dr. Who’s 60 anniversary. 60 years of storytelling, there are bound to be ups and downs. In the meantime I enjoy traveling with the Doctor and Loki.
Honestly it probably wont sadly
Historically the anniversary specials have been hot messes
That's what Loki does; push people to be their best selves. ;)
@@MercuryKnight5 The Man Who Makes People Better?
... Well, compared to him, anyways.
Me: Oh no I watched the last two seasons of Doctor Who and I don't feel so good.
Doctor: Take one season of Loki and call me in the morning.
You are the Doctor?
@@khaitranngoc4176 Doctor: Doctor...Doctor Who?
Original Size Deaths Head; "You are under arrest again , Yes, What ever you are? , You are not the Doctor any of you ,Yes!
It also feels like Natalie Ann Holt’s score was heavily inspired by Murray Gold. Gods I miss Gold’s run on Doctor Who!!
I feel so hyped whenever those opening and closing credits themes hit. They are freaking epic
One of the strongest parallels I saw was a relatively small but specific one: the notion of a weapon that appears to disintegrate its victims, but which we learn later was actually teleporting them to a prison of some sort.
And I completely agree with them having a responsibility to do it right and shut up all the sexist naysayers. I felt the same way about the Ghostbusters reboot.
Yeah!
The last two episodes with the 9th Doctor
Well, Richard B. Grant was used splendidly this time around. Glorious purpose indeed.
glorious purpose!!!
12:15 I think one explanation for Thor’s sudden change in personality was due to the amount of time he had spent on Earth, by the time Ragnarok takes place, he would of first came to earth almost 6 years ago. I’d imagine his time spent on earth changed him and made him lighten up a little bit. Obviously the real world explanation is the first two Thor movies just didn’t do as good as other MCU movies and as an audience member it’s sort of hard to relate or connect with a character who sounds like he’s in a Shakespeare play so Marvel knew they had to switch something up with the Thor movies.
Jesus, you actually hit the jackpot with the comparison. I was wondering what felt familiar. Loki's mannerism and how just wacky the show gets with gripping story and charismatic characters.
I just want good Doctor Who again, series 10 was a good step then they fucked it all upm
I loved Series 10. It is crazy to think it has been 4 years since I legitimately enjoyed Doctor Who
@@TheJadedJames I wasn't a fan of Matt Smith nor did I enjoy Clara, so series 10 was a fantastic change of pace. If only the momentum from it remained in the 11th series instead of feeling flat.
@@Pacmanfan-po9rn i agree with you about season 10, but boy did i love matt smith tho
@@Pacmanfan-po9rn Eh, 12th only getting one good series was a shame.
@@daedalus6433 whaaat series 8 and 9 were awesome, Clara got WAY better after series 7, Capaldi was of course the best, and there were some absolutely epic storylines that are some of my favorites of all time, heaven sent, listen, mummy, under the lake/before the flood, and I love almost every other episode lol, sure some are better than others but they were still really solid series. but series 10 was really good and consistent, and it changed up the formula and added some fresh elements that worked really well. and that finale, wow. now im depressed thinking about how awfully this show has been handled.
18:50 I would compare to Sylvie more to River Song, A mysterious female with a strong connection to our hero, kidnapped at a young age, shown to be able to compare/outwit our hero, make Sylvie more flirtatious and you have River Song.
"There was a goblin. Or a trickster, or a warrior..."
"soaked in the blood of a million civilisations"
@@FullFatVideos I joked on twitter that Loki.was basically revisiting Doctor Who's best episodes (Fires of Pompeii, Utopia, there's some tonal comparisons to be made to Midnight and visual similarities to Silence in the Library) and wondered hakf jokingly if The Pandorica Opens, my favourite episode, would be next!
@@ClaireWritesSometimes Well, I just can't picture where did you see all those "similarities" ?!?...
When I saw lady loki I immediatly thought, "oh are they gonna make this loki superior to our loki" or "are they gonna make sylvie overshadow our loki?" But I am so glad that they both build off of eachother and both have thier weaknesses.
I'm surprised at how much I've been enjoying this show. I was never quite as enamored with Loki as everyone else seemed to be but now that you've run through the comparisons so thoroughly, I can understand why I like the show as much as I do. It reminded me so much of when I met the Doctor way back when he was number 9.
"Storm, the Beast, the Valyard." looking at Boastful, gator, and Classic Lokis.😆🤣 Perfect!
After Tom Hiddleston's done you could even have a regeneration counterpart by picking up on an alternate reality version of Loki to steer the show in a new unique direction that could just go on for ever and not get old.
Personally, I disagree. ‘Loki’ is more like if The Master had their own spin-off, but I can definitely see why people would compare ‘Who’ to this. (BTW, I thought Series 12 was fantastic and I’m excited for where the show goes from there. I know how that’s going to make me sound to certain fans, but it’s MY opinion and I’m not ashamed to say it.)
i cover the notion of "Master Who" in the Sylvie chapter! :)
It was really only the third episode that gave me "This is just Doctor Who with a budget" vibes. But that was only insofar as the setting and the relationship between Loki and Sylvie playing out sort of like what you'd see with Doctors and new companions or alternate versions of the Doctor. The show is overall serialized enough that it is maybe more like Doctor Who sort of if you boiled out all the adventure of the week material and it was entirely built up of stuff like The Pandorica Opens or Hell Bent where the Doctor faces some huge cosmic threat
Series 10 is still Capaldi tho chibnall fuck it all up
Do you mean Series 12? Series 10 was Capaldi’s last season and (imo) the last good season of Who.
@@pastlife960 I mean, 12th was kinda shafted by both Chibnall and Moffat
I'm watching the newest Efap video where u are and I gotta respect the way u came into the discussion. You were open to ideas and listened what the other were saying. (Unlike other guest) and even tho u might have different opinions to them, u were still understanding and kind.
Hope to see you in Efap some other time, man! :)
Same I hope he goes the Jay route from becoming a occasional guest to a member.
Much respects to Matt for being open minded and cordial
I love how Loki’s redemption is genuine and earnest, drawing on his internal desires for love and companionship. He wanted to feel loved and be acknowledged by his family but he realised he was, he saw how his actions affected the people that he loved. He realised he was loved, but his actions made him lose that. His actions brought suffering to everyone. And he discovered that his life ended as a joke, dead. He saw that there was no use for trickster Loki, because trickster Loki only brought pain to everyone else and him
You mentioned his "blue box", but there was literally a scene with the receptionist guy saying "I know you, you're that criminal with the blue box!"
When?
I'm not enjoying the chibnall era of doctor who at all, but they definitely have the best looking special effects to date. Too bad they couldn't spend more money on writing a good script.
To write a good script, you don't need a lot of money; you need someone who knows how to write and who is passioned by his job, his characters... DW always had been known for his cheap special effects and good ideas. For sure, they've put more money in the 'making'; but the scripts are so weak and comon !... They should have stay with the same recipe, instead wanting to copy the US series : That was an absurd move, for sure !
Richard E Grant's Loki was AMAZING.
Dude, all these mashup edits are incredible. A very interesting comparison. Never really thought about it as I stopped watching DW after being disappointed by the start of Capaldi's run(I'd just stay relatively updated through your videos). But the Loki show felt really fun and familiar, and you made me realise why. Loki truly is Marvels time-lord! I've really been enjoying the whovian flare in this series. Great video!!!!!!!
“Hopefully a better use of Richard E. Grant” everyone thank this man for manifesting that top tier character for us.
Loki has made me think that maybe Marvel and Disney should buy Doctor Who from the BBC. Better budget, better marketing, better merchandising.
I want it in the hands of someone who cares, but thats probably not disney imo
Dr Who apparently would be a pain to aquire rights for. They don't own the Daleks for instance, so whoever bought the show would have to deal with Terry Nation estate
@@Ben-vf5gk sure that would just be pocket money for Disney 🤣
@@Budbrothers420 Very true but then they'd have to deal with Terry Nation's ghost. He's still mad about Remembrance of the Daleks
@@Ben-vf5gk haha fair enough hate myself for saying this but Disney would have the potential of making the show good again
You’ve cut some of this together brilliantly btw 👍
Rory the Roman?! Thank you!
@@FullFatVideos yeah I’m off to die now because I’m called Rory it’s what we do (don’t worry I’ll be back I wouldn’t mind being made out of plastic) 😂
Looking at the current state of doctor who is honestly just depressing, it makes you realize it will probably never be redeemed to it’s former glory.
Original Size Deaths Head; "You are under arrest again , Yes, What ever you are? , You are not the Doctor any of you ,Yes!
@Edgy Cheer up, that's what everyone thought in the late 80s, and when they stopped making Who we thought we were right. Then we reached 2005.
My thoughts on episode 5 and Black Widow: th-cam.com/video/efrT7HA-m_4/w-d-xo.html
The idea of Sylvie (Female Loki) growing up on a 1,000 ending worlds reminds me of the master looking into the time vortex in season 3 when he was a boy and having that drive him insane.
Prepare your ass for Efap.
@@aisnota5192 what is Efap?
@@jwec9867 A podcast that looks at bad video essays and THIS one has been selected. Being chosen by Efap is exposure, but it's a negative exposure. You're only choice is to either ignore it and hope the negative feedback dies down, or do what Downard Thrust did and commit some self reflection.
@@aisnota5192 Right? They should change the name of that podcast.
if loki is able to meet his mother , it would literally make me cry
You´re on EFAP. Congratulation, you´ve made it. Now you´re famous.
Pfft, those guys don't even believe half the garbage they spew for views
It's a shame that objectivity is denied by so many people, hence why EFAP exists.
Hiddleston HAS to be cast as the Doctor at some point in our lifetime, right? It just HAS to happen. I don't care if I have to wait 20 years for it. I am all for an old Tom playing the Doctor !
i never realized how many similarities loki has to the doctor. it really makes me appreciate the show more
'Loki' is just Tom Hiddelston's audition to be the next doctor
Or is it two such auditions?
@@EternalDensity maybe
i'm not from the UK or the US but internationally speaking i could say doctor who peaked during eleven's era (2011-2014 were the days, i was literally part of the superwholock bunch) and honestly all i can think of is how sylvie in the loki show is definitely what jodie as thirteen should have been had we not had chibs as dw's current show runner lmao
Just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your videos. The love and dedication you give to these stories is amazing. 💞
Thank you, that really means a lot
I have never watched doctor who, but man you really sold me on the fact that loki is like doctor who
if you liked Loki, you'll love it!
7:04 yup, Loki was like the one good thing in that movie (I dislike Dark World). They wasted Christopher Eccelston.
Im so glad somebody else is talking about this none of my friends watch Who so when we were watching Loki and I was like "this is just like Doctor Who" they were like "wtf are u talking about"
none of my friends who watch loki watch who, i was in the same boat lol
The modern dr who COMICS are amazing. It’s the writing and the acting that ruins modern who
... Since 2018...
Since Marvel UK lost the rights, But a Captain Britain movie can fix this,
Original Size Deaths Head; "You are under arrest again , Yes, What ever you are? , You are not the Doctor any of you ,Yes!
To talk about the intro, yes... Doctor Who is now bad, but it has everything to do with the writers. The actress is honestly pretty good, it's just a shame she didn't have a good team to support her.
Honestly. Shes doing the best with what shes been given
@@edgarnello9165 Amen to that.
Literally told one of my friends this two days ago, that Loki is doing the best Doctor Who in a decade
I kind of snickered in episode 5 where Renslayer said she had a spaceship which could get them to the end of the timeline. I was half expecting to see a red phone booth parked in a TVA hanger.
I was thinking about DC and "legends of tomorrow" xD
Some people said "this could be a Dr who episode" when talking about Loki episode 3... And I was like "why are you saying that as if it was a bad thing?"...
I'm loving this show!!! So so much
Except there are two hearts... Loki and Sylvie
I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw these similarities between these shows
'Dirk Gently' had that vibe going in both seasons, but Nutlix killed it.
Actually I heard it was BBC America who cancelled it due to a lack of viewership on their end. The Max Landis stuff going on behind the scenes may have also played a part.
Jane with Thor's power teaming up with Loki would make sense.
She wouldn't know how her powers work, given that she's never learned "Asgardian Magic" (which Thor has been learning for hundreds of years) and she doesn't have intergalactic knowledge either... So, she could be put in a situation where she would be stuck juggling between needing Loki and "being stabbed in the back". Loki could help her get back to Earth/Thor, while being tempted to steal Thor's power for himself.
That Cafeteria scene where he snatches food to use to explain the hiding in apocalypses thing was peak Tenth Doctor. Like you could just replace Tom with David Tennant and no one would notice it was not Doctor Who.
"No don't set Fire to the palace" xD