ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2023
- Fun project on this one. We designed some cooling plates for nema17. Before you say this is useless and not needed if you don't have a high temp enclosore and that motors can take 180c on the AH version and 130C on the version I run (yes you are right ..but)... remember I do stupid things here on this chanel and pushing things their limits. When I go crazy on current and speed/accel (things like 200mm/s and +), I was not able to keep the motors running for long before they start losing their power and fail, even with enclosure open. I have to let them cooldown, and start another run once they cooled, which is anoying. These coolers might be the solutions. Time will tell. But it will be also useful for people running high temp enclosure, or people like me that like pushing! Oh, and we also have 5160HV pro driver watercooling coming too ;)
Printers:
-full Vz235 printer kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dld...
-Full Vz330 printer kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DkF...
Printer Parts:
- Waterpump kit I use here: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DEt...
-240mm Radiator: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DFO...
-120mm x2 fan: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DEJ...
-Vz-HextrudORT watercooled : s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DEZ...
-Goliath watercooled : s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DDP...
-Fly Super 8: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_A8mOXD
-Drivers s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AFDBtp
- XY Motors: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_9iN6y9
-Alu Water cooling blocks: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DlK...
-Fittings: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DEV...
-water cooling kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dnc...
-48V PSU: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dcf...
-CPAP fan: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dmk...
-CPAP tube: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_A9rUYd
(complete part list can be found on the BOM list on github link below)
-Eibos filament dryer: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dc7...
Full VzBoT Printer project: (BOM, cad, stl): github.com/VzBot3D/
CNC Parts on Mellow Store Aliexpress or f3d-racing-fdm.myshopify.com/
Visit Mellow Store for VzBoT parts: mellow.aliexpress.com/store/g...
Please join us on FB: / 4098868770205560
Disord: / discord
If you wish to support: ko-fi.com/vez3d - บันเทิง
Vez is becoming the LinusTechTips of 3D-Printing😅
😂 wait.. im releasing my screw driver soon 😂 jk. LT channel is one of my fav one. One man can dream.. but I doubt there is any chance of that happening haha.
@@Vez3D so mineral oil 3D printer soon?
Or your "drop rate" will skyrocket soon 😂
😊
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊 14:31 😊 14:31 😊
Neat video! You need to cool the sides, not the end. Heat conduction to the ends sucks because there's a resin heat brake in between each lamination, reducing the thermal conductivity along that axis to a tenth the value in the other direction. Not only that, but the ends are far away from where the actual coils (which generate the heat) are. Cool the sides, like the NASA paper on high temperature Ultem printing does. Or even better, blow air direction into the stepper coils by drilling holes in the stepper's aluminum end plates (although you should add a filter to keep out debris), like that one guy Stijns Projects does.
Vez walking through the water cooling section that’s not a fan grill. That’s a fan grill! That’s absolutely gorgeous work.
You are a Wildman and we are truly grateful!!!🤠🤠🤠 Amazing innovations!
Very nice design!
I'd definitely love to have two pairs of them! They look like the best and most high quality solution there is for NEMA 17's out there so far.
for context: when it comes to the motors quitting, one factor is that *heat raises electrical resistance in a circuit*.
not within normal operation range lmfao. this is absolutely not needed in 99% of cases. Cool but 99.99% unnecessary.
We need longer videos, not shorter! 🤣
haha well.. the majority of viewers dont watch till the end when its too long.. so the best lenght is arround 15min max.
@@Vez3DThat's sad. The TH-cam's 3D Printing section is starved of content, but a 15min video is too much. 😞
I guess we need more videos then! 😇
I’m glad you made this video. I have considered doing this for a while now, but still have other upgrades to do before motor power is a limiting factor for me!
The thing about water cooling, you gotta get rid of 90-degree fittings. They cause way too much restriction especially with smaller tubing like you're using. Also, you have to keep everything in a single loop. Branching off separate for the hotend will cause the coolant to take the path of least resistance and you'll no longer cool the motors hardly any.
Also, from the testing i've done and have seen online, cooling the back of the motor hardly does anything. You need to be cooling the motor lamination on the sides. One test i saw with just a simple fan, cooling the end of the motor dropped it only 2'c but when cooling the side it dropped over 15'c. Heatsinks on the end dropped only 1'c, and only a few degrees on the sides when there wasn't a fan. Adding a fan was slightly better than the fan blowing on the side.
Nope. You speak a perfect amount. I love this! That grill is fricken beautiful
I'd like them on my VzBot TODAY!
You can not imagine how I can relate to the "I'm talking too much" statement. Somehow its real hard to make a video below 20min about something that oneself finds cools and enjoys ;-)
I'd definitely be interested in a pair for my doom cube. The hotter chamber would benefit from the motor cooler.
Next step, full jacket cooling. Why stop at just the bottom, cool the coils too!
Need fins in the bottom half to run the water past otherwise it's just picking up a tiny percentage of the heat off a single flat plane.
Definitely want 4!
Nice! U the man Vez!
I'd definitely like to get a set of these! I am spec'ing out a water cooling system for a custom actively heater chamber right now. I currently just have the generic rectangle cooling blocks that I was going to adhere to the base of the motors, but this would be far superior. The chamber can reach 70C, but at that temp my poor steppers are literally boiling and need some cooling love.
It'd probably be cheaper and lower maintenance to buy some high temperature motors
You need to cool the motor lamination on the side. Not the rear of the motor.
You do not speak too much. I grew up in Montreal and it is nice to hear the accent!
Hell yeah. This is the way.
I think the steppers themselves get so hot that it reaches a point that the surface area on the bottom can only transfer so much of the heat. It would be interesting if you pointed the flir at the actual stepper casing to see what effect took place, as that will be your bottle neck to performance.
The motors I took apart only had a thin wall on the back cap going from the coil laminations to the back face. It's not a recipe for pulling a lot of heat away from the coils.
Cooling the rear of the motor hardly does anything. You need to cool the laminations on the side of it. A little fan on the side will do FAR more cooling than a watercooling loop connected to the rear of a motor.
I water cool everything I can , you make me feel less crazy :)
Neat!, a indicator mark on the screwholes as to which hold the reservoir together and which hold it to the stepper would probably be handy.
This was great!
I'd be interested in a set of 4!
Oh damn it’s leveling up time
11:18 Dracula's Blood :) this should keep it alive
I think doing something to cool the return when the coolant picks up heat would help greatly
Very cool! At what Amps do you run the motors/drivers for speedruns? Do you lower the Amps for "casual printing"?
I'd possibly be interested in some depending on price. Also a version for NEMA 14 might be interesting for v0 or other small but fast printers
I just water cool my chamber. 55c for printing abs keeps the extruder motor from destroying the abs direct drive mount. 45c is almost low enough to print Petg enclosed... I keep it down to 40c for that.
Hi @Vez3D have you consider have dual loop with 2 pumps and 2 reservoirs for so they work independent. Not sure about the pumps you are using but the D5 pumps work very well. Keep up the good work and they are "silent" pumps
For a loop like this that is very restrictive, you'd be better off using a DDC pump. They have better pressure than a D5. D5 has higher flow rate but suffers when there is lots of restriction.
Definitely it's idea which I really want in my setup and yea... I have RR 500 with extreme speeds :D
You guys might want to find another place to sell this stuff. I'm pretty sure AliExpress has gotten into identity theft. Last night they would not let me order anything unless I sent them pictures of my driver's license, credit card, and bank statements. I will no longer be ordering from this site, which is a shame because I was trying to build this printer😢
Just take my money! 🤑Seriously, I'm hoping to get a set for my recently bought 330 mellow kit. The WC kit for the extruder is already on the way! 😁
Shouldn't the cooling channel be a longer serpentine to increase the heat transfer to the cooling fluid?
I would imagine the motors are not dissipating enough heat to make it matter. They are already close to ambient after cooling, so not much room to improve. The flow rate was pretty poor too, so that could be addressed as well.
A decent sized copper pipe serpentine at the exit would do the job.
It looks great and all, but if just chasing for speed and precision, it is probably already more practical to use servos. They are not much more expensive, especially now considering the water cooling setup
Awesome buddy, does your buddy plan to sell those fan guards I’d love one for the 235, also what thermal camera do you use buddy
I'm loving the prospect of a completely watercooled 3D printer.
Speaking of which, I saw that Mellow offered the Vz-HextrudOrt in a watercooled variant, but I fail to see how useful it could be. Is it to cool the pancake stepper through the body of the extruder, acting as a heatsink? Does it interfere with the Goliath's tubes? Or does ot replace the heatsink of the Goliath? I'd love some guidance on that, the perspective of a fully watercooled printer may get me to go over the edge and pick this up as my next build...
It replaces the heatsink of the goliath, makes it shorter and lighter. It will also cool the stepper to some extent, but there is not much contact area, so i think thats limited.
@@renatokulman7286 Thank you!
So does that mean that the air cooled Goliath could be fitted in it, without the need to buy the watercooled one?
And I figured the stepper cooling would be lackluster, give the cooling is not only not touching much of the stepper, but is also far from the heat source
They need to fix their quality issues before I ever buy a Mellow product again. The throat on their aluminum extruders is so poorly deburred that they shave filament terribly.
Might almost make sense to grind of the color of the motor back plate to increase conductivity 😏
Hi Vez, what is the current situation with the non watercooled Hextrudort and the majestic Goliath? Can you just slap them together with the alu printhead and get away with no heatcreep, or do i need to go with the watercooled version? On the mellow site, it says that only the watercooled version is supported, but in one of your videos you said that you should be able to get away with it. Has it been tested? Thanks love your vids!
Its.something i didnt test. Im not it would work but i have good reason to believe it would work.
Overkill but cool. :)
I'm thinking of doing something similar on my Ender 3. My printer has a MicroSwiss DD extruder, and there doesn't seem to be enough clearance between the back of the motor and the print frame to stick a cooling block. Would attaching the cooling block to one side of the stepper motor provide adequate cooling?
Watercooled drivers at 10A next? 😅
Do you plan on doing one for the circular extruder motor?
In place of water-cooled motor why we don't use a peltier element instead?? ... You will keep your heat inside the chamber and have really cool stepper motor... This method decrease number of part and the mechanical failure. Will try to do video of it when my setup will be complete.
The peltier is super inefficient.
Is that a good idea with the T piece? in the PC water cooling field one goes in line because water follows the path of least resistance
Im no expert here. But it seems to work ok. Im open to suggestions as always because I know there are smart brains out there that can help me :)
Its not ideal, but it will still give some flow and realistically you don't need much flow to cool them enough.
Even for floor heating some people just close the valves a little depending on the lengths of each loop instead of using a flow equalizer. Ideal? No. Gets the job done for most people? Yes.
@@renatokulman7286 also he is using a thin tube for the pump size, if a side were to flow more the resistance would increase dramatically so it equalizes
Ja, habe ich auch schon vor vielen Jahren gemacht. So, wie Sie das gemacht haben, ist es aber sehr ineffizient. Befestigen Sie den Kühlkörper besser am Blechpaket.
Viele Grüße aus Deutschland! :)
Hi Vez,
like your channel! Have you considered just going to a bigger radiator? You might not need to increase the size of your lines like you suggested at the end of the video, also, how did the new mod affect the hotend cooling temps... I guess your klipper pid tune just runs the radiator fan more now than before?
I'd like to water cool my delta in the future.
Mike.
I dont think i need bigger rad but i might just upgrade to 240mm. As for pid and hotend. I dont see any difference. It has no link to pid or how the hotend will heat. The fan and pump is just turned on when hot end is heating and will stop when hotend reaches below 50c
I want to see a vez with bed force sensors or load cell on the extruder for a automatic bed level
Hey Vez what kind of speeds do you use for 24/7 printing?
Anyone suggest flipping the motors so the hot end is on the top? I've seen water cooling of stepper motors where they wrap the motor with copper tubing, that seems like the most efficient way to do it but not as pretty as your billet heat exchangers.
on this perticular design, we cant wrap arround the motors unfortunately. The surrounding arround the motor will not allow that
@@Vez3D flip whole gantry
Whats the mean temperature that you get on your tank with just the hotend? I tend to overdesign stuff so i can be wrong, but the heat from the stepper motors and the heatsink will even out and maybe you could endup with a warmer heatsink or steppers than before...
More water or an radiator/active cooling on you reservoir could correct this potential issue if you notice that this is a problem.
@vez3d can we buy these watercooling blocks? The ones in the link appear to be very different. These v3d ones look way better
Hey Vez, i recently watched CNCKitchens Video about 'Part Strength' printed at high speeds
Maybe you could hook up with Stefan from CNCKitchen and let him check some prints out of the VZBot at ~1500mm/s? Would be very interesting to see the results against them from Bambulap 🤔😁
I did hear the LDO Super Power stepper where really hot so this might be a good thing for them (now I never did found info about that just some people say they are so do not take my word for it)
Bro, where you bought the new screws long?
First I was thinking about making my circuits 1. hotend and 2. motors. What is the temperature of the liquid at the exit?
I need to install temp sensor in the loop
Please sell individually!!! I need a set of 5, not 4. For the z of a heated chamber vz330
have we run into galvanic corrosion yet? isn't hextrudort aluminium and fittings copper?
So far so so good. They are nickel plated fittings so they should last a bit..
DI water would help. Also, if you can separate the metal types from each other with a bushing or gasket, you should not have an issue. I imagine it would take a long time to even see any effect, though, with the way it is now.
How is the coolant reservoir kept cool. On a computer setup the is usually a radiator and a fan.
there is a 120mm Radiator with a 120mm fan
@@Vez3D you may find that there are larger options which can provide more cooling. If you need cooling for multiple steppers, more is better. 😁
@ghost wheel99 oh I know dont worry :) I have 360 cooler on my pc.. 3x120 fans
Pc water cooling person here...
Let me give you some informations about the flow of water. The flow rate doesn't effect the cooling capabilities at all. It dosnt mater, if the water blasts through the water block or it slowly creeps through it. The longer the water stays in the cooling blocks, the longer it stays in the radiator. The only thing, that you now could improve the cooling eith is to either get a larger radiator or let the fan run faster. It would also be interesting to see your water temperature. Maybe insert a temperature sensor at one place and let the fan of the radiator get controlled depending on the waters temperature? At least thats how i control the cooling of my pc....
Best reguards!
I totally agree... BUT.. since I run 4 motors in serie, if the flow is very low and slow, the coolant will raise in temp before the end of the loop... the last motor will probably not get the same cooling right ? If flow is quick and high, then it will work better and even out better.. no ?
@Vez3D yes and no. Yes, there are differences in temperature. But those are probably in a range of 1-2 C. If I remember correctly back to the sli days, there where 2 gpus + 1 cpu cooled with one loop. So probably 800 Watts in series. Between the first and second gpu was a temperature difference of max 2°C Yes. We use larger 1/4 tubes. But still... nothing to worry about. Those motors get warm.... yes. But they are nothing compared to high end computer hardware. You are totally fine with how it is. Also. If you put the flow to high, you will 100% blow of the tubes from those fittings! Those pumps are powerfull once they run at 100%
@@BlueFire778 you are correct. Big pc water-cooling enthusiast here. Loop order and/or flow isn't a big deal even with this case scenario. Funny how even when it comes to cooling engines this is true. Watch the latest video by Rob Dahm about the 12 rotor. He goes on about his experience cooling and found running in series before radiator has little to no impact on coolant temp. I might be jumping out of my lane when it comes to cars but I found that interesting. @Vez3D Also if noise is an issue, get a d5 pump .
@Mattxjax45 for the noise stuff.... its a vzbot... if that thing prints gyroid infill on a reasonable speed, you will not hear that pump
@@BlueFire778 Actually it can make very little noise if set up that way. I can share a video but I can print at speed with the stock tronxy motors with very little noise. Also the cpap running at low speed makes less noise than a part fan and offers more airflow at that speed too. Plus you don't want to hear your machine when it is just idling waiting for a job imo.
Although cool, I think it way over complicates the system for minimal gains. This is a way to over amp the motors for sure but in reality it would probably be better to add larger motors. Larger motors gives more force and amps without the complications. Just my opinion
larger motors: 1-would need a redesign of the gantry, motors being bigger means pulley gears need to move. 2- bigger motor means more inertia, more moving rotating mass, creating more vibration and not always good for print quality. And while being bigger, doesnt alway mean they can go faster in acceleration. Their own mass can significantly reduce the acceleration for the same gantry. Of course they can have more torque and power, but my testing with bigger nema 23 gave me way less acceleration for the same gearing. Then you could gear them up to fix this, but it brings other down sides. Those little nema17 i run are high power, small, low inertia, low impedance.
hallo wo und ab wann kann man die kühler kaufen 😁
What happened with the small AliExpress water-cooling plates?
They dont flow enough.. and have to be glued on. This is much better here
@@Vez3D good to know bc I was looking at using them at one point 🙏
You can add me to the list for a set of 4!
Black orings will fail soon. Use orange ones.
how is such a water cooling actually emptied? Sorry for this stupid question but I've never worked with something like this before
I added valves at the pump outlet, so I can just unplug it from there and just let it drain with gravity, or use the pump to drain much of it.. then I can also blow air in the lines
Стоит изолировать моторы тепломзолятором, если они в корпусе.
Wouldnt it be better to actually cool the motors heatsink itself (4 sides) not the back plate?
Yes if you have the place for it. Here we only have access to 2 of the sides
What thermal camera is that?
Its a TopDon TC001
Curios after this if the coolant will need to be cooled after cooling everything
There is a small 120mm radiator.
@LBCAndrew yea but what I'm saying is it's only getting room temp air it'll only do so much after so long maybe I guess the size of your tank would make a difference as well
@@LBCAndrew water cool the radiator😉
Why not make the plans with ribbons like heat sink?
It will be more afficent
Bonus points for dad jokes!
literally!
What is the pe tube size ?
Her it was 4mm od and 2.5mm Id. But is switched to 6mm od
why you don't bouble the radieror and use a better pressure fan like noctua?,in the water cooling pc,T-split are not the best solution.much better use another loop with a secont pump rad and reservoir.the flow not decrease to much the temp.think to introduce a drain valve for loop maintenence.
I might
why are you still using steppers and not using servos clearly at the price of this build it could use them?
When can I buy it?? 😂
So the ultimate reason was just to touch motors without burning your fingers? :)
It's a cool idea, but an old idea. Another TH-camr had this idea for a while.
Why not just use normal distilled water as coolant? Coolant has chemicals in them, which has the sole purpose of lowering the freezing point of the liquid. Distilled water is cheaper, doesn't make a mess, and contains no chemicals.
This is not coolant from car industry. This corsair PC coolant. It has anti corrosion stuff and anti bacterial
Why is it limited to 1 per customer? I have 2 motors!
Its not. You should be able to buy as many as you want
water cooling is such a good idea but you need to keep in mind the amount of heat you are trying to remove, stepper motors and drivers get pretty hot, i would suspect you will need a fairly large radiator and fan system or your going to boil that liquid during long prints.
then i can put my pc in my vzbot lol
they can share the water cooling system ha
Whole house water cooling v2 😂
Tech tip: You could higher heat transfer efficiency with applying a thermal paste between motors and water blocks.
I guess you didnt watch the video 😂 ... there is paste
Look at 7:30min
Voids are bad, mkay. Honestly would just lap both surfaces flat for best efficiency.
@@Vez3D Well, okay. I skipped that. :D
Without diving in myself.. I wonder if there would/could be a more efficient placement for heat transfer. All in all wonderful idea and application :)
thats most stupid idea ever
I love stupid ideas