NO FUEL PUMP - Debunking The Quality Fuel Line Myth
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ธ.ค. 2023
- If you would like your very own VEVOR Diesel Heater, Check out the links below and help support me in the process. Use code VVSALE5 for 5% off. Thank you !
I get nothing if you purchase a meter, but some have asked for the link www.amazon.ca/dp/B0C2GHGTTY?r...
Canada -
5kw s.vevor.com/bfQEYR
8kw (same as 5kw) s.vevor.com/bfQEY1
2kw smaller and less heat. s.vevor.com/bfQHG0
All in one 5kw unit. s.vevor.com/bfQI0A
All in one 8kw unit s.vevor.com/bfQLp6
USA -
5kw s.vevor.com/bfQEZf
8kw (same as 5kw) s.vevor.com/bfQJE8
2kw smaller and less heat. s.vevor.com/bfQEYL
EU -
Non Bluetooth 5kw s.vevor.com/bfQMZO
Non Bluetooth 2kw s.vevor.com/bfQHHm
Non BT 5kw all in one s.vevor.com/bfQMZ8
AU -
5kw s.vevor.com/bfQHHM
8kw (same as 5) s.vevor.com/bfQLqD
2kw (smaller and less heat) s.vevor.com/bfQLqL
All in one 5kw s.vevor.com/bfQzfk
All in one 8wk s.vevor.com/bfQJR2
DE -
Non Bluetooth 5kw s.vevor.com/bfQMXL
Non Bluetooth 2kw s.vevor.com/bfQNrO
FR -
Non Bluetooth 5kw s.vevor.com/bfQMX7
Non Bluetooth 2kw s.vevor.com/bfQNrT
IT -
Non Bluetooth 5kw s.vevor.com/bfQMYn
Non Bluetooth 2kw s.vevor.com/bfQNr2
ES -
Non Bluetooth 5kw s.vevor.com/bfQMYJ
Non Bluetooth 2kw s.vevor.com/bfQNsa
PL -
Non Bluetooth 5kw s.vevor.com/bfQMZf
Non Bluetooth 2kw s.vevor.com/bfQNsq
NL -
Non Bluetooth 5kw s.vevor.com/bfQMZt
Non Bluetooth 2kw s.vevor.com/bfQNsC
If you would like to support me and my projects, I have created a Patreon account. Regardless of the amount, every bit helps, will be put to use and is awesome motivation. Thank you so much !!
My Patreon - / joel_a
The Joel Arseneault TH-cam channel where I do mostly jetski stuff that is much more edited. / @joelarseneaultyoutube
My Teespring - spark-bolt-city.creator-sprin...
Actual description: Edit: A LOT of poeple apparently just read the title and assume I have something against quality fuel line (or rigid fuel line) ... If you actually pay attention, you will see there is a specific myth I am debunking...
Lots of people have said these heaters run better with solid fuel line, as the heater will get proper fuel pressure. This video is testing that myth... let's find out. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![The Wall Song ร้องข้ามกำแพง | EP.202 | ตั้ม วราวุธ / เบสท์ คำสิงห์ | 18 ก.ค. 67 [1/5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cwIoA7XHqnE/mqdefault.jpg)
Albert Einstein once said something like "brilliant spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" keep up the great work and educational content Buddy❤
Haha... yeah. People get too attached to their ideas. If you challenge their idea, they take it personally as tho you are saying something about them as a person... Nope... just experimenting and showing my findings.
The tinkering you’re doing is really interesting.
There are two sizes of gravity fed drip sets, 15 gtts and 60 gtts. That looks like a 15 (15 drops per mL) which is used for higher flow rates and would be important for people to know. 60’s are often used for medication administration in the field where more fine tuning is needed, usually piggybacked on a larger 1000 cc saline bag.
We use these drip set for all sorts of off the menu applications including flushing eyes, etc. It made me chuckle to see you use it for this!
Awesome vid.
Haha... thanks for the comment.
I got a few of these form my girlfriend who works as a vet tech at an animal clinic. I didn't know about the two drip volumes. I know they usually use these with a pump and not to actually set the flow, but as a way to tell at a glance if things are about right. Or at least that's my inderstanding.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Maybe you’re done with this subject in your vids but if you were curious and wanted to fine tune the flow rate you could run the 15gtts. in tandem with a 60 gtts.. Get the 15 to about where you want it and then use the 60 to make smaller adjustments. You make a good point about the drip set running out in a power failure. There are all sorts of bad things that can happen if you don’t keep a close eye on them, especially if you’re infusing into a human. That’s why pumps are preferred nowadays. I also thought a fuel shut off solenoid might work to prevent that. Again, really fun vid, my worlds collided in the most unlikely of ways from watching it:-) Subscribed and liked, best of luck to you.
@@Splash0921 Totally not something that you expect to see, he, haha. I'm glad you were amused.
I'm sure I could play with these to get an ideal flow rate / make it more adjustable, but I think a needle valve is likely more practical, if I choose to do this again... Still using the dripper to indicate flow, but not the thing to restrict flow.
I have some ideas... but as always, so many ideas, so little time and money, haha.
Consistently one of the best channels on diesel heaters. I never have to lower my expectations, my friend. I appreciate irony.
Haha... Thanks for the kind comment. I appreciate it.
Well that was an eye opener. I fell for the idea too, without ever seriously thinking about the "pressure", but now you point it out, it's self evident you are right. Received wisdom is always worth questioning.
Interesting. I'm glad you did this. There's a lot of people saying things about diesel heaters that just aren't true and their problems more the result of incorrect adjustment and installation. I wonder if you could use a carb jet to do the metering, with the right size jet you might get the correct number of drips.
Yes... issues with these heaters is almost always due to some installation error limiting exhaust or inlet flow. They are very sensitive to that.
You could find the right size jet, however, some adjustability would be nice. You could use the jet for max flow that was something reasonable and then have the adjuster to lower it from there.
A few have suggested a screw needle valve. I think that would probably work really well.
I got impatient with the pump priming after I took the heater apart to clean it. I primed the line manually with a plastic mustard bottle, just letting the fuel flow into the line with no pressure. After a bit, when the line itself should have been filled, it still kept taking more. Then I had an oh-oh moment and stopped. I started it up anyway with some apprehension. Shut it down right away because it was smoking pretty good. So I knew it was just a straight shot into the burner. I was thinking my pump was shot because of the extremely tiny amount of fuel coming out. Thanks for your videos, they clear up a lot of things about these heaters. No there isn't any pressure in the line. In fact I'm surprised that the pump keeps up with the burn. Great videos.
LOL.... Awesome story, thanks for sharing.
Even tho the pump states the volume on the side of it, it was interesting for me to see that it took 3 pulses of the pump to make one drip of diesel... goes to show how little they really flow.
These heaters are engineered incredibly well and it's shocking they work as well as they do, especially for the price !
I love it when you can prove everyone wrong! Great job! For years now everyone has been going purely on myth. lol Glad I saw this video. I was just about to get into the van life setup and you just gave me more knowledge than 99% of the videos I've watched. Honestly this videos deserves the few millions those other misleading info videos have. This needs to be corrected.
Thanks for the kind comment !
People sometimes like to create stories / problems that are easy to fix. Everyone needs a feeling of accomplishment.
To be clear, I'm not saying that rigid line isn't a good idea.... Especially on a vehicle or RV .... The stuff that comes with these heaters is typically pretty low quality and will get brittle over time.
"Soft line won't effect the operation of the heater because it is soft." is the overall message here, haha. It's always a good idea to use quality line.
Great advice and video. Many thanks for sharing the knowledge. There will always be the so-called self proclaimed "I know better professionals) speculators and armchair nothing to do advisors. Well there is always something to be learned from others. My guess is tat most and the majority of the critics know no better as the chances are they have never do a thought testing method, or wouldn't know were to begin. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure if it works for you, then it works for others. They just need to give it a try.
There are a lot of good reasons to be confused about how things and physics works. We all talk in general terms with an understanding of the idea behind the message... This is a much more efficient way to communicate.
It can also lead to people clinging onto a specific word or phrase and creating a situation that doesn't match reality. These ideas are often much more fun / romantic to believe than the truth.
Every man in his shop likes to feel like he's making things better.... and if you can get the feeling of making things better by adding $16 of fuel like that's awesome... Then some prick on the internet comes along and tries to take that away from you. Haha... Humans are tender beings, even the tough ones... I'm no excepting and my ego and ignorance can and has gotten in the way. I try to acknowledge it and move on.
🤟
I have 3 diesel heaters all on original green soft fuel lines never had an issue. Awesome video and information
It's not as horrible as some make it out to be... it certainly doesn't matter if it flexes and absorbs fuel pump pulses... Of course, quality fuel line is never a bad idea...
Interestingly when I installed one of these in a van, the booklet said replace filter AND fuel lines every six months?? I know the green fuel line isn't supposed to be great - but six months? Surely it will last longer than that
@@richardd8352 That's just typical corporation lawyers figuring out how to avoid any sort of warranty or insurance claim... because they know this isn't going to happen. So when you come back with any issue, they can say "did you change your fuel line?"
@@loweredexpectations4927 ah yes, makes sense. I'd still be curious to know how long on average that fuel line lasts. I suppose it varies. I can imagine in time it becomes brittle. No way six months though.
@@richardd8352 It tends to get brittle after a few years, but if it is stationary it's not at all an issue. If it is in a vehicle and supported properly, it is likely not an issue. If it is in something that is bouncing around (like a vehicle) and you have long runs of it that are not supported, it may crank at the locations where it is supported, or leak around fittings.
Joel, thanks for the drip info! Can't wait to try it
I think it actually states this clearly in the owner's manual ... "In case of fuel pump failure, 80 drips per minute on max level is the ideal AFR for 3500 ft elevation."
Good information, This shows if the fuel pump fails you can always hook up in emergencies. The difference between using a drip feed for patients and as an oil dripper is that not many hospitals go down to zero degrees and then warm up during the day. Whatever they drip into you is more or less at a very constant temperature so the viscosity of the liquid will remain the same and same drip rate. A light bulb could replace the pump as a resistor.
Thanks for the comment !
Yes, hospitals, and vet clinics, where I got my IV, all use pumps to control and monitor the flow, as well. The adjuster is there for emergency situations... Nurses and vet techs are trained to count out drips if necessary, but it never really gets used.
You are the second or third person to suggest the light bulb... I was curious if this would work, so I gave it a try. As I suspected, the ECU is too smart. It recognizes the bulb as a dead short and won't work. You would need to check the resistance of the pump and then match that resistance for it to work 👍 maybe a few bulbs or a LED.
the lower the wattage the higher the resistance so a light bulb that uses the equivalent watts of the pump should work.@@loweredexpectations4927
Excellent presentation, you are correct about the fuel pump, it only pumps fuel, not pressure. Only pressure will exist if downstream pump line is restricted. Means no restriction no pressure....I'm a Hydraulic and pump technician. Kudos....
You have no idea how many people still disagree..... Gotta love youtube comments. haha. Thanks.
I think you're doing a great job, keep up the good work...there's nothing like good bench testing@@loweredexpectations4927
Excellent work Sir, thank you for taking the time to debunk the majority and actually proving the point, very well 👍👍
I have also recently purchase 30 metres of fuel line and plan on performing some ridiculous tests. I imagine I will be pushing the heater to failure... but we will see what it takes.
i’m a nurse and i guarantee if you put a “dial a flow” restrictor on their you would have much easier time
That would be WAY better. Thanks. I have since installed a needle type valve and use the dripper to monitor.
This is just for testing / curiosity sake, as it is not very safe, but it works a lot better.
Hey, this video is doing great so far. Almost as much visitors as your 10 day older wheelbarrow heater already 😁
Haha... Yes, I have noticed... I'm not sure if that is subject matter, or just because people are on holiday and bored.
As somebody who fixes these on a daily basis I can tell you that the soft fuel line causes more problems than anything else. It kinks, splits and creates air locks. I have to change fuel lines on people at least once a week and it always fixes the problems. They green stuff might work sometimes but in general it is the wrong stuff to use and will cause more problems than it solves.
I don't doubt that you see a lot of fuel line issues, especially if you deal with RV and vehicle installs. I have been a mechanic for 30+ years and see lots of fuel lines cracking, turning to goo or just getting so hard they are impossible to deal with.
I didn't once dispute that cheap fuel line was as good or better, I think I even recommended good fuel line. I know for a fact that not all soft fuel line is created equally, as I have a 1989 Yamaha watercraft and the fuel line is like new... I believe neoprene based ?
What I am arguing / showing in this video is that the pulse of the pump or pressure of the pump has no effect on the operation of the heater whatsoever... it is there to deliver the fuel, and doesn't have to do it in a forceful way to be effective.
Rigid line is great for some applications, but it's not better because it allows a stronger pulse to be delivered to the heater. When buying soft line, one problem is knowing what you are actually getting... You almost have to go to a trusted local supplier, or you could end up with crap.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Yeah I agree with that the atomiser doesn't need it to be squirted on to it dripping is fine. Yeah I think the stuff they send is for water pumps in fish tanks or is very similar to say the least.
Well
What to say!!!
Entertaining video
BUT NOTHING NEW
Google Dickson or refleks diesel drip feed heater
Burning oil is NOTHING new
One thing I would like to say
Your recommendations of safe CO levels is WAY WAY out
Please don't be advising people on this unless you have the correct information
Indoor co levels should be no more than 9ppm for 8 hours
Max of 35 ppm for no more than a hour and 100 max for 15 minutes
What he's missing is the bore size creates air locks from pressure bubbles. A problem I fix constantly
@@faffybubs9099 I have ordered 30 metres of fuel line to test... I plan on purposely introducing massie air pockets... However , what you are missing is that I didn't dispute anything about air. I didn't claim that rigid line isn't better, or that small diameter line isn't better. This wasn't an attack on rigid line....
What I am disputing is simple. Rigid line isn't better because it leads to a stronger pulse being delivered to the burn chamber. Softer line isn't bad because it is too soft, causing a weak pulse to be delivered to the burn chamber.
I can absolutely see how air (or vapours from cavitation) in the line can become an issue. If you have your pump close to the tank, and a giant bubble between the heater and pump, this bubble is a spring. The fuel delivery will likely be somewhat unpredictable (not enough at times, and too much at others - like after the heater has powered off)
I also suspect that this is much more of a problem in anything that moves around and in an RV or vehicle install with a LONG lines. Most people harping about this in blog posts, forums and on video comments, have an all-in-one heater with 2 feet of line, or 3 feet of line and the heater in their greenhouse.
Good video! I really appreciate folks like you doing this kind of work. Cheers!
Thanks ! I enjoy it.... making the videos is the hard part, haha.
At last someone who has debunked that Australian guys claims. I've had my 2kW heater running in my van for the last 4 years with Tygon soft fuel line with no issues. the line even runs up and down and any air bubbles formed by the action of the pump just run along the line and don't stop it working at all. I keep telling people that the way the pump works, if it has fuel to pump in on its inlet side, it will pump it out on the outlet side, and then whatever goes in one end of the fuel line, will have to come out the other end (unless there's a break in it along its length) so the type or bore size of fuel line makes no difference, once the line is full. The fact that the manufacturers sell dampers for the fuel line makes their arguments worthless.
Yes... somehow people just ignore it when I ask them about the dampers.... I have some upcoming tests that you may enjoy ... I ordered 30 metres of soft aliexpress fuel line, haha.
Bubbles have never been an issue for me either... as long as there's not a huge air pocket, you don't even notice bubbles. These bubbles occur in rigid line and act as dampers.... so that's another way this idea is disproved.
Regardless of any tests that I do, many people get caught up on these ideas... like they have a romantic relationship with them. People like solving problems, and it's really really easy to solve a problem that doesn't exist ... If you take that away from someone, you are robbing them of their success 🤷♂️ ... still... the truth is better.
Very nice test, could be used in an emergency situation. IV Drip costs nearly next to nothing (in case the backup diesel/fuel pump is also faulty).
For sure... it would be handy to have a CO meter as well, but it could get you out of a real pickle if you had to wait 3-4 days, or weeks for a new fuel pump to arrive.
Good back up ...wish inadequate an iv line for my camping trip as pump diet.
When I was about 13, I took my scout patrol on an overnight camp to a bush hut. The hut had an old cast iron pot belly fire but the firewood was mostly very wet so we couldn't keep the fire going. There was some diesel for the power generator so I put a tiny hole in the bottom of a spaghetti can, filled the can with diesel, and suspended it quite high over the fire. The fuel splashed down onto the cast iron and burned well enough for the pot belly to glow red hot. I don't know how I knew how to do that and I don't know how I've reached age 65.
The vid we didnt know we needed. Good job!!
The answer to the question you didn't know you had. Thanks !
Great information for emergency situations. 👍🏼
You should see what I have coming soon .... 😁 Cough... no ecu...
Regarding those who comment on things they have not actually tried and tested for themselves - You cannot, never, not ever fix stupid. Thanks for giving the rest of us something we might try and test.
I don't necessarily thing that it is stupid, but some people are that, haha. I think it's easy to start imagining things happening in ways that they don't, in reality ... and once you imagine one part wrong, the rest goes off the rails.
Brilliant video, well done for persevering !
Thanks. I appreciate your comment. Sorry for the delay.
Pretty smart cookie. Thank you kindly 🎉🌿
Thanks for your comment.
Exactly. Simply put your fuel tank above your heater for a Net Positive Suction Head (NPSH) and you won't smoke on startup or have fuel delivery issues.
Indeed !
What you have said makes sense. As far as fuel pressurisation. But in my opinion, you should still change your line if you want. if you want it to last for a long period of time. as soft pipe may deteriorate within about 12 to 18 months. I would also guess UV light may have. some Affect. on Deterioration of pipes if open to light in some cases.
Absolutely ... There are many reasons to change to change to a rigid line, or even just a good quality line. I was simply disputing this one statement.
Rigid line, in many cases, especially for longer runs, makes more sense.
By varying the hight of the fuel supply, you could adjust the fuel pressure
This is true... If you depended 100% of the height, you would have to constantly raise the fuel tank to keep the fuel flowing.
That gives me an insane idea for mounting the tank on a balance beam and using the decreasing mass of fuel to raise the tank and control the fuel flow....🤣 what a nightmare that would be.
Interesting experiment, thanks for the information. It's appreciate by me and many others, it's good to have others opinions and input even if they are sometimes a little aggressive in their comments.
Yes, people get attached to their ideas, and when challenged feel like they are being personally attacked.
You are probably rewalking the path of the original inventor of the diesel heater. I salute you for doing all these experiments. I guess at the end of your experiments, you will probably arrive at the same conclusion that a pump is needed 😅 and somehow pump and fan speeds are optimized by the ECU to give the cleanest burn. The pump also pumps up the fuel if you happen to install the fuel tank below/beside the heater. It also stops the fuel from leaking out after the heater stops working, as you described.
Haha... I love experimenting 🤪
I would never dispute that a pump is ... needed, or at least in all practical terms, is needed. This test was simply to prove that fuel delivery does not require any forceful injection or pulses. As long as the fuel makes it's way to the heater, in the correct quantity, it's going to work just fine.
Many have made the argument (including one very popular heater tuber) that soft line expands during pump pulses. This expansion weakens the injection of the fuel and causes problems. I'm not sure if these claims were made out of boredom, or just because the guy is a good storyteller, but this myth has spread all over the internet, haha.
What I'm doing in this video is pure silly... other than in an emergency situation where your pump died and you were going to freeze to death, this has no practical application.... but it's still fun.
Yes I heard about this debate. If your argument is about whether or not a pump is needed in an emergency situation, you're right. Your experiment proves so. You can drip feed it without a pump.
On the other hand, if your argument is about whether or not the original flexible large bore fuel pipe supplied with the heater expends (and therefore its consequences) when the pump ticks, that's a totally separate argument, because as much as you'd like to disagree, that famous/stupid 😂 ytber is correct, I'm afraid. Have a look at John McK 47's Part 11 - Fuel Delivery video. @@loweredexpectations4927
Can they run ok with the exhaust and air ports pointing upwards? Or has it have to point down ? It will be better to mount in an outdoor housing and have a vertical chimney., the only thing I can think of is condensate buildup
They say not to run them upside down because of where the fuel runs into the chamber... it could actually run out, instead of in. Having a look at the chamber, I can say that upside down would not work, unfortunately.
Anybody that thinks a pump is needed have never had to heat there house with a "fuel oil stove". Gravity works just fine..... The fuel pump is for convenience when you can not have the fuel above the burner and to stop the fuel when you shut it down.. Thx for sharing......
Yes, this is true... The pump is there as a means of controlling fuel. Both volume and a way to shut it off if it flames out or gets too hot.👍
I mess around with my Heat Up & Down, Too Warm, THEN too Cold
I’m sticking with the clicker *UNTIL* I’ve enough monies to go live in an all year round WARM COUNTRY lol
Excellent stuff bruh☮️🏆
Haha... yeah... a warmer climate is smart.
Some new controllers have thermostats similar to in your house, and you can buy a device called a Bureck CD Thermostat, that turns your heater on and off.
@@loweredexpectations4927 my Ex used to do similar things to “Said APP” Sounds Like an Alexa on Roids lol, and at a guess I’m 99.9% POSITIVE it’d cost a whole lot less having this APP 😇😜
Pretty neat experiment. This is the first time that I have ever seen a diesel anything run off of an IV.
Next up... can it run without an ECU ? ...
I was wondering if it would run with just the fan and glow plug myself.@@loweredexpectations4927
You absolutely can!
The easiest way would be as simple as using PWM motor speed controllers to control fan motor speed and glow plug temp. You can use a handheld tachometer and a laser pyrometer to figure out the proper settings for your motor speed and glow plug temp. And then just use the IV drip chamber for fuel. Like you said, you'd obviously never want to run it this way unattended, but as a proof of concept, it would work just fine.
Just make sure you buy PWM controllers with a high enough amperage rating to handle the current draw of the glow plug and fan motor. I don't recall the exact numbers, do you'd want to verify it before buying parts, but I believe the glow plug draws about 6-10 amps, and the fan draws around 2-3. You can get controllers rated in those current ranges for about $5 and $10, respectively, so you'd be about $15 all in. You could save a few bucks just by manually switching the power to the glow plug. But running it at full power will probably reduce the life of the glow plug.
If you wanted to add some other features like heat exchanger temp monitoring, that would also be pretty easy to do with a simple thermocouple, as you've done in the past.
Really amazing You know more than who invented this burner!😂👍👍
HAH ! Naw... Those folks are pretty incredible. These things are mini engineering miracles. Truly awesome that they designed these so many years ago to be so simple, reliable, durable and cost effective.
I agree with you a little . If you have more line it's easyer to push the fuel and air threw the smaller line , Than the bigger line. I have been witnes to this my self
Absolutely . A smaller diameter line, with the same fuel volume, means higher velocity fuel (or air) and the smaller cross section means air is less likely to get trapped.
With very long runs of fuel line, I can see how trapped air could become a problem, I have purchased 30 meters of fuel line and will be testing this.
However, the argument is that the rigid line is batter because it is rigid. The claim is that the soft fuel line absorbs power / pressure from the pump and causes running issues. Rigid line can be better in many ways, but not for this reason.
Where can I buy the fitting for the bottom of the plastic tank? The bulkhead one, some called it a nozzle on the bottom with the o-ring etc? I can’t seem to find on Amazon unless I buy the whole tank.
You can get them with a line attached, at walmart in the US... "Fuel Tank Stand Pipe Kit," ... If you search hard enough you may be able go find the normal ones... not sure where tho.
Learned a lot here. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the comment.
Can you move that fuel line out from between intake and exhaust ports ? I had thought of bending the tube to make the fuel line come out the side for hook up?
That could be done. The only time I ever had an issue was when my exhaust caught on fire inside (from burning waste oil). The pipe was glowing red and it caused the line to bubble a little.
The line comes out the side of the aluminum body, through a grommet, and then goes down out the bottom. They do this because they were designed to be mounted on the floor of an RV or truck, and you would have the fuel tank outside.
What we're saying is the solenoid pump is ideal to start with. I thought the main issue with the crappy fuel line was that it perishes after a couple of years and you end up with diesel everywhere.
Thanks for the comment. I don't think there is any evidence supporting the idea the pump is ideal for starting. My heater started a bunch of times with 3 -4 drops of fuel.
A decent fuel line is much better, and rigid fuel line is good in many applications. I'm just saying that it's not better because the rigidity makes the pressure higher.
It's cool that now we know that the fuel "pump" is a metering device. What really blows my mind is that the exhaust is running straight into your living space without killing you.
HAHA... yes... Thanks for not attacking me about my exhuast. Some people don't understand, so they decide to lash out... Saying "it blows my mind" seems like a better approach.👍
I wouldn't recommend venting your exhaust inside, but when you understand CO and CO poisoning, this isn't really that dangerous or shocking (for a short test) The real danger is the TVOC as they can stick with you for a long time.
These pumps are actually called "dosing pumps" so the clue is in the name... they tried to tell us and we ignored them, haha.
I did nother video recently where I talk more about the actual dangers of CO and what the different levels will do. I linked some OSHA info in the description of that video.
I have seen that the replacements are called "dosing" pumps. ( A dosing pump is a positive displacement pump that is designed to inject a chemical or any other substance into the flow of water, gas or steam. Dosing pumps are typically small and provide an extremely precise flow rate for maximum control )
What a lot of folks don't seem to understand is by the nature of how the "pump" works, it can't generate any meaningful pressure. It's a "metering pump" it's designed to allow in a specific amount of fuel, which is what each 'tic' is. It's a piezoelectric pump that uses a diaphragm to "pump" an expected amount of fuel into the combustion chamber. That's why you're playing with pulse numbers and the pump doesn't whine like a regular pressurized fuel pump that they're used to.
The same principle is used on many larger small engines to supply fuel to the carb bowl, except where it's not piezo electric but powered by vacuum or exhaust pulses. Any fuel pressure is generated by gravity, the 'pump' is only there to make sure the bowl fills under high fuel demand and in the case of the heater, meters the amount of fuel to keep the mixture from running too lean or too rich because there isn't any carburetor to meter the fuel for the heater.
Also, your cat is adorable and confirms my suspicions that orange cats and thinking clearly is not their forte. Poor lil guy 😂
Yes... this exactly. They even call them "dosing pumps" to try to clue us in, haha.
Haha... yes, Quasar is adorable, and foolish. He likes a LOT of attention and that often gets in the way if him thinking strait.
Don't listen to others. If they make references to other youtubers, that means they them self's have no clear understanding...
Well done and very good practical example of a theoretical "discussion".
If nothing else, these comments drive me to make videos that educate others.... and I have changed a few people's minds... that's always good.
That is MORE than good ! Well done.
Little question: Changing the diameter of the fuelline but keeping the same pump, will that influence the fuel consumption ?
Thank you
Bernie
@@loweredexpectations4927
Thansk for sharing. Do you recommend an inline fuel filter?
Yes... they are cheap insurance to protect the pump.
No comments abut the cat! You can see in the slow mo, the eyes meet the landing spot and the amount of push required from the back legs. Four legged landing! Back to the heater...
Haha... Yeah... he's a clumsy cat... but he's a cat. He bounced off the ladder on the way down, so that didn't help much, but he did cat things.
That’s hilarious. I have told my wife before about a cat that looks just like one of ours on your channel. Now, he’s shown that they act alike also. Pluto can fall off a 6” wide railing!… and catch himself😂
@@billmoore5177 HAHAH... Gotta love cats !
This is a GREAT shop heater option. But you need to put a temperature sensor-relay with a normally closed fluid selonoid in line with the fuel to shut the fuel off if the temps dropped below a set point. You would need a bypass to start it or a lighter to heat the probe but it would detect a flame out or dead cooling fan and kill the diesel
I was having the same thought about a normally-closed solenoid as a safety mechanism. Could add a push button override for starting like when lighting a pilot light on gas appliances until the flame sensor is hot enough.
Yeah... If you were doing this as your permanent setup, you would certainly want to make sure that you had some safeties in place.
It would also be advisable to have a overheat protection where it closed the valve if it gets too hot.
Even if it switches back on after it cools. My old heater cuts the fuel flow in half when it reaches 210 and goes back to normal when it reaches 208.
If you wanted to be really clever, you could have a set of valves and inline restrictors that allow a preset fuel flow. For start up you could have one that operates between room temp and 60, then two on until 210 and one closes after 210 ... It could be so much fun, haha.
To stop the first one (room temp to 60C) from coming on in the event of a flame out it could either be on one minute timer, or ... I forget what it's called ... The opposite of a latching relay, maybe. It stays energized till you cut power, but requires power and ground to re energize, so you'd have to switch it on for start up.
Thank you! This is a REAL HELP!
You're welcome 👍
While the heater does not require the upgraded line to run properly and effectively, the metering pump does need it to run at peak performance and not cause code issues. In your benchtop situation using gravity feed (which is not practical to all installations as not all can have their fuel above the heater) you have constant flow to the heater once you bled the air out. The dosing pump needs a firm (or better, solid) line downstream of the pump leading to the heater with the pump pointed discharge up at 15 - 90 degrees to allow for cavitation air to be removed from the line and to allow for a consistent flow to the heater. The suction end of the pump requires no hard line and is better suited to the larger volume soft line that comes standard with the heater as it does not restrict the incoming fluid to the pump which in turn will cause less pump cavitation.
The way you have shown would work great for some applications if it could be run with a solenoid valve that is 12v open and closed with the loss of power. Could possibility be connected to the pump wiring to avoid any start-up codes? Thoughts?
No this is not at all practical... just a demonstration that as long as fuel gets to the heater, it will start and run fine.
These heaters (ECUs) are stupid and only know a few things about the heater.... Despite what the manuals (and internet) says, what these code actually mean is almost always WAY over... what's the word.... There a LOT of guessing. The heater knows if the temp drops too low, or if a few things are disconnected or shorted... that's it. Everything else they say in the manual is possible causes. Example. E08 = Too low of temp was detected. Anything beyond that is pure guessing.
The line bein rigid has nothing to do with the operation of the heater. Pressure pulses from the pump being dampened by the line, or by anything else (the sell inline dampers) does not affect performance... that is what this video is about.
The fact that rigid line has a smaller diameter makes it easier to bleed, and the velocity of the fuel is greater, so bubbles are less likely to get trapped. This may matter if you have may feet of line. I have ordered 30 metres of soft line for testing. I believe I will be able to get it to fail... my question is how far will I have to push it.
The pump should be gravity fed to reduce cavitation, but the restriction of flow when the pump is pumping .022 ml per pulse, is not an issue.... In any system, the actual restriction that matters is the greatest one, and that only matters if the flow requirements are greater than the capabilities of the restriction.... Hope that makes sense, haha.
Basically, If you are forcing your pump to pull up 2 feet out of a tank, the restriction caused by lifting that fuel is many times greater than the restriction caused by the diameter of the line.
You can probably connect a resistor to the pump wires and mimic the pump. I have tried a light bulb, but it knows it's a short, haha.
Love your channel. You mentioned chamber heat a couple of times made me wonder. I have a 2kw Bluetooth controller using it to heat a shower shack, 8x12 insulated, so even when it’s -15C it still only needs to be on level 1 and chamber temp runs in the 145C range. It runs 24/7 a lot of the time, although, when I run the generator, I will switch to smart mode and have the controller set to auto, so that the heater will actually shut off/ restart by room temp (which is awesome). Anyway, is 145C too cold for the burn chamber?
Hello Bill.
You have nothing to worry about. The temperature that we are talking about is actually the heat exchanger temperature. The burn chamber runs MUCH MUCH hotter than this, hot enough to melt copper.
I have done testing and found that the chamber actually runs hotter at medium settings rather than max. This is counter intuitive as the exchanger is cooler at lower settings. The reason for this is the increased air flow in the burn chamber not only cools it off, but likely causes it to run a little lean.
When your exchanger shows 145, your chamber is plenty hot.
Can you do the same test with the white hard fuel pipe I would like to if there any difference between hard and soft fuel pipes, brilliant video
Thanks for the comment. I believe David McLuckie did hard vs soft using a otherwise stock heater. I may do this test with rigid line in the future.
Thanks for clearing this up. Every time I saw someone talking about the need for a better fuel hose I wondered why since I didn't see any way that it would be pressurized.
If one were to put something like a mister nozzle on the end, with enough pressure to atomize the fuel, would it improve the burn efficiency/cleanliness?
Yeah, I've always questioned it too. I think the only way it might be an issue if you have a really long run between the pump and the heater, and it's having to push it a ways uphill. Even then, I think it would still work fine, as long as the pump can't backflow... I've never actually checked a pump to see if it has a check valve, but even if it doesn't the solution would be as simple as installing a check valve.
For me, I am running my fuel lines under a toy hauler that sees a lot of gravel roads, so I ran the hard lines. I'm planning on upgrading to a MUCH larger and permanent fuel tank, and when I do that, I plan on just running stainless steel hardline from the tank, at which point, the fuel supply system will easily outlast the trailer, no matter how much gravel gets flung at it...
Thanks for the comment and question.
If you could get the mist to happen in the burn chamber, then yes, a mist would help... I am trying to build a custom burner for this purpose.
The problems are many when trying to do this with the stock heater, though. First problem is that the fuel enters into the glow plug area (preburn chamber) and needs to do this so that the heater can initiate the burn. You don't want fuel just spraying onto the glow plug, as the plug turns off after start up and the fuel wouldn't burn.... so the mister would have to be located after the plug in the burn chamber.... then it would have no way to initiate the burn.
This is one of the easier problems to solve, and there are many more, haha. The bottom line is that these heaters burn REALLY clean when set up correctly, as is evident from my testing so adding a mist system would be added complexity for very little or no gains.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Despite having watched many of your videos about these, I still don't know the exact relationship between the fuel nozzle, burn chamber, mesh, and glow plug so it's hard for me to fully understand it. I think if you were to spray the fuel at the glow plug it would stay hot enough to keep the fire going.
@@DonziGT230 I don't blame you for thinking that... However, in order to start reliably, the glow plug is surrounded with a mesh tube. This allows the fuel to spread out and vaporize, allowing the flame to start quickly. This design requires the plug and mesh to be in a enclosed area. An enclosed area is not ideal for mist or for the main burn. To get the correct air volume in this small space the air speed would be very high and would require more pressure. The likelihood of flaming out would be very high.
For your main burn area you want a good air volume without a lot of air speed. If you are misting fuel in and it is burning, you also need open space for the gasses to expand so that you don't have a pressure spike... a pressure spike will cause the flow of air to stop, or reverse.
In my burn chamber design where I used mist, I basically used no mist to start the heater and allowed the fuel to drool in onto the glow plug. Once the flame started, air pressure was slowly added so that the flame could transition between the pool of burning fuel to the mist of fuel.
The folks who designed these heaters all those years ago really knew what they were doing... and altho they seem pretty simple, there is a LOT of thought and engineering involved.
I'm glad your old heater is still working. I got my old sweeping brush working, I just swapped out the head, and put a new handle on it. Good as new 😂.
"Only fools and horses work" UK reference
Right on ! Keeping that old stuff running. Way better and more satisfying than just getting new junk. Never heard that before, had to read it twice to understand.
That's, why the UK is in poor condition today!
But no offense, we in Germany have forgotten too, what makes a country prosper.
@@werner.x It's spreading all over the world .
Unfortunately even if you remove the cap on the holding tank, a gravity feed will always slow down as back pressure drops from consumption. Here's the solution. Install a valve on the bottom of the Holding tank. Run a tube from that valve down to an oil filter,then from the filter run another tube to a mini float valve like in your toilet. Install that float valve in a small Tupperware container. Install another valve on the bottom of the container. Than your transparent feed line to the heater so you can see the flow rate. Adjust the rate via the valve on the Tupperware container/carburetor. Open the valve completely on the holding tank. The level in the carb will level out and back pressure will remain the same until the tank runs out.
Note:- if you install the cover on the holding tank and carburetor,you must drill a small hole on both so to allow air to get in. If not a vacuum pressure with occurs and the drip will stop.
I see you have thought this through extensively ! Well done. Basically a toilet tank type reservoir, or carburetor float bowl scaled up with a sepparet fuel tank ... I like it.
That being said, the amount the pressure drops over time is very little, unless the tank is very tall, and the result is just a slightly leaner AFR when you get close to running out. If this was a permanent set up, then what you are suggesting would be ideal 👍
Could you use a needle valve and a 12 volt solenoid to shut the fuel off if there is a failure that would shut the fuel pump of if there were one.
Yes, that's a good idea. The needle valve gives more control and the shut off valve would stop a potential mess or dangerous situation, if the heater flamed out. 👍
You could also wire up a relay that opens the drip line when the unit turns on and 12v is applied to it, that way when it powers off the fuel line shuts
That could work. Thanks for the comment.
Maybe a solenoid valve connected to the pump lines with a capacitor? It would keep the line open when the pump would be running and make some resistance to keep the error codes away. Or if that doesn't work (not enough pixies per pump cycle to keep the solenoid open until next pump cycle) then you could just load capacitor or trigger timing circuit with it and use separate mosfet to open the solenoid based on that. Anyhow you can both mimic the pump to prevent error code and only give diesel when pump would be running.
@@CheapskateProjects ya, and you could use the connection that the original pump used to tap into the 12v power.
@@CheapskateProjects For sure. WIth a little circuitry and trickery, it's absolutely doable.
The flow will start when the pressure is POSITIVE, even minor push will start the flow. Also minor VACUUM will do the job, but with opposite direction. So the main point is to keep the route in such that the flow will continue. The tubes in such a small pressure is very variable of strength, main is the usable with fuel(s). The application of your as "medical" is awesome!😊
Haha....yes... Medical drip line is not DOT fuel approved 🤣
the fact that you have it cyling at 70 per minute on the highest heat setting (according to your controller) is a tribute to how over fuelled these things are , i guess these big companies are all linked anyhow so why wouldn't they . , there is another guy on the tube setting his at 1 hz on the lowest setting , assuming thats one pump (drip per second) , it seems it is possible to go lower on the number 1 control setting . (Would it be possible to just pinch the fuel line a little upstream of the pump?) or would it destroy it , great work , very interesting thanks .
I asked BARD, that has disclaimer at bottom, about correctness ;)
In a Chinese diesel heater, the fuel pump actually does both pump and meter the fuel.
Pumping: The pump delivers fuel from the tank to the heater unit against gravity and any resistance in the fuel lines. This ensures a steady flow of fuel for proper combustion.
Metering: The pump also regulates the amount of fuel delivered based on the heater's operating requirements. This ensures efficient fuel usage and prevents flooding or starvation of the burner.
As for fuel tank placement, it's not strictly necessary for the tank to be higher than the heater unit. Most Chinese diesel heaters can self-prime the fuel line as long as the tank is within a reasonable distance (typically less than 2 meters). However, there are some advantages to having the tank higher:
Gravity assist: With a higher tank, gravity can help push the fuel to the pump, reducing its workload and potentially extending its lifespan.
Reduced risk of air bubbles: Air bubbles in the fuel line can disrupt combustion and cause starting problems. A higher tank allows air bubbles to rise in the tank before reaching the pump, minimizing this risk.
Easier installation: In some cases, having the tank higher can make it easier to install and access for maintenance.
Ultimately, the decision of whether to locate the tank above or below the heater depends on your specific installation and preferences. Consult the manufacturer's instructions for your specific heater model for specific recommendations and limitations.
Here are some additional points to consider:
Pump location: Regardless of tank placement, ensure the pump is installed below the fuel pipe connection point on the heater to avoid air pockets.
Fuel line length: Ideally, keep the fuel line as short as possible to minimize pressure loss and improve pump efficiency.
Fuel filters: Use proper fuel filters to prevent contaminants from entering the pump and damaging it.
By following these recommendations, you can ensure your Chinese diesel heater's fuel pump operates efficiently and reliably for optimal performance.
Thanks for the detailed comment. I don't understand your opening statement. What is "BARD"
My argument isn't' that the dosing pump doesn't meter and pump. My argument is that the pressure of the pumping has no effect whatsoever on the performance of the heater, other than the ability of the fuel to make it to the burn chamber, in the correct volume.
Yes... I always recommend having the tank above the pump and heater of possible. It just makes sense to use gravity to help prime the pump and feed the heater.
They were doing so well until the end 🤣 . There is no such thing as pressure loss and the efficiency doesn't matter at all. I just ordered 30 Meters of fuel line... We will see if it matters. Of course, people will still say it matters, haha regardless. At 30 M, it may actually take a few seconds for the fuel to enter the chamber, but once it is primed and running, my predictions are that it will be fine.
Strange, I'd replied to this with link to BARD, AI bard.google.com/chat
I said some stuff, that I do not feel like writing again.
I do think the more pliable hose can matter. That each pulse would expand or contract, depending on push or pull side. Over some long distance it could be enough to lose much pressure. I'd agree with fellow about tank would be best elevated, some, higher than unit. @@loweredexpectations4927
You mentioned a prime mode in another video. I'd like to have a "manual" prime feed with my old black rectangular controller (4digit red display, where you can enter the 1688 code), 2 round buttons left sided, three round buttons right side. I tried this 7 second press of the "down" button, didn't work.
Couldn't find another access either.
Any ideas?
I believe, for your controller, it is pressing OK and the down arrow at the same time... It may start, or you may have to press the arrow up key to get it to start. Either down or power to stop.
👍🏽 🇬🇧 January 2024
This channel/chap is my David McLuckie of 2024!
What a find!
I absolutely _love_ these diesel heaters - & am so glad that the patents ran out on Eberspächer & Webasto - Karma coming home to roost (they weren't exactly especially more reliable).
I love David... What a legend !
Is there a way to take an ohm measurement of the fuel pump and then substitute a fixed resistor across the wires so the ECU doesn't know any different?
Yes... this should be possible. I have not tried it, but that makes sense.
hey dont know if someone said regarding the continous dripping u can put an electrovalve that is always on when the pump is receiving signal dont know the voltage .....but its shuts off when pump stops receiving signals, maby an additional circuit because i asume the signal is pwm or an ac electrovalve is required
sorry english is not my first language
Thanks for the comment. Yes, this would require extra circuitry, as the power from the pump is pulsed. I believe you can even get a device called a "delay relay" where it requires a certain amount of time after it stop receiving signal power to shut off. They used them in an old Polaris snowmobile EFI system in the 90S
Your English is pretty good 👍👍
i guess you could use carb jets with very small hole to control drip rate and have it at fixed flow the problem i see is hight of fuel level or tank would alter the flow so as the tank gets lower the the less pressure of the fuel been pushed along the pipe
A fixed size jet would work for sure, as long as you get the size right. An adjustable needle valve would allow you to slow the fan down and adjust fuel accordingly.
The fuel pressure would drop, but this would only cause the heater to lean out slightly. The result from that is just slightly less heat from a full tank compared to an almost empty tank.
Love this. Can you also do a video on whats inside the pump ? Piston or ball bearing ? Thanks !
Thanks for the comment. I have wanted to do this for a long time and assumed that my pump would die... but haven't been able to kill it, haha.... I'm going to have to get a new one and cut the new one apart !
It's a solenoid fired piston with a check valve the piston size is equal to pump rating so 22ml is 22ml volume piston
@@rafecullop2690 That's basically right, but it's 22ml for 1000 pulses ... the the piston displacement is .022ml.
Very interesting.
Now... can i just add that "we" who want to heat our garages or basement are, in effect extrapolating from TRUCK/camping car heater.
Wabasto designed this so that a trucker could just "flip a switch", set the level, and warm up his cabin and sleep the night.
Nonetheless. 10/10 from me for proving something relevant. Thanks
Absolutely. This is not a practical way to run your heater, especially in a vehicle... but anywhere.
This was just an experiment. I recently ran the same heater without any ECU at all.
Great video, thank you! What are your thoughts about the real needing for a fuel filter? as an example planar portable heaters doesn’t use one, but Chinese ones always install it.
It's not a bad idea to run a filter, and they are cheap.
These pumps are a lot less likely to be affected by debris than a carburetor or fuel injection, and the heater itself really doesn't care too much about debris... however, I still run filters on all of my heaters, just in case.
Some types of silt or dust could cause premature failure of your pump and a filter is not only good insurance, but also a easy inspection point. You can look at a filter and see if you have been sucking up contaminants.
Sorry for the drawn out response.
Does the green softer pipe create less noise transmission. I have a peristaltic pump to play with and cheap speed controller. I think i might monitor temperature and pump speed. As you say put resistor to replicate pump coil resistance or just not connect pipes.
Question is how to make the heater quieter, get rid of the roar sound. Is from burning or air flow over the fins.
Yes. The green pipe creates slightly less noise transmission or amplification. The biggest factor seems to be how your pump is mounted and what it is mounted to. Suspending it from a few springs or a spring would likely make a huge difference in most cases.
The peristaltic would be cool to play with. As long as it is sized sensibly, it should work well once you dial it in.
I have found that a lot of the sound can be muted with the "correct length" inlet and exhaust tubes. A lot of the howling noise seems to be due to a resonance frequency. Running an exhaust and no inlet makes them often sound like a pulsejet engine.
On air cooled motorcycle engines, they use chunks of rubber with slits cut in them that couple the fins together. Search "air cooled engine fin damper" image on Google. This has a huge effect on an engine, but not sure if it would work on a heater. If the fins are amplifying noise, then it should work.
Another fun Video of you just " sending it".. I truly enjoy these experiments kinda takes me back.. Anyway, pay no attention to the keyboard warriors, your peeps love your videos .
Thanks for the comment ! It was a fun one.
Joel, love your channel. However, I think you may have misunderstood the issue, likely due to the commenters using the wrong terminology.
The concern with flexible fuel line is not fuel pressure in the automotive sense, but rather the force of the pulse of fuel that is injected into the pre-burn chamber.
Flexible fuel line absorbs or deadens some of the initial pulse from the solenoid, resulting in a weak (but steadier) dribble of fuel onto or under the glow plug screen.
Solid nylon line has less give and results in a more forceful (but shorter duration) injection of fuel into the pre-burn chamber, resulting in a wider dispersal of fuel across the screen and onto the glow plug itself. This assists in quicker ignition of the fuel on startup, which leads to less 'startup soot' (from the initial dribble of fuel getting cooked by the glow plug instead of immediately igniting). This may also assist in better/quicker atomization while the heater is running.
The total amount of fuel injected is ultimately the same, but the 'spray pattern' (or lack thereof) is not. Somewhat similar to if you had a remotely mounted fuel injector on your car, with a rubber hose running from it to your cylinder - it would still meter the correct amount of fuel (ignoring timing) but fail to disperse it in an easily ignitable way.
John McK, one of the original diesel heater youtubers, set up a demonstration of the difference in this video, at about 18 minutes in: th-cam.com/video/jCZhjGyR3bo/w-d-xo.html
I appreciate your comment and your reasonable, polite and thorough way of explaining yourself. I will respectfully try to explain why this is not the case, and I hope not to offend you.
I didn't name anyone in my video, but he is one of the people who gets this wrong. 13 minutes in he starts to explain how in your house you have anti knock or anti water hammer devices. He goes on to say this is the last thing you want in your heater.
I get how this can be convincing... but if you Google search "dosing pump damper" you will see that he is very wrong. Many of the high end heaters come with dampers to smoothen out the pulses, doing exactly what a soft fuel line would do.
While the preburn chamber theory may seem logical, it makes a few incorrect assumptions. Diesel makes soot when it doesn't have enough oxygen to burn completely and has nothing to do with how quickly or slowly it starts to burn.
As the heater is running, there is no flame or burning inside the glow plug airea, and it is doused in diesel the entire time your heater is running. The glow plug turns on the cool down cycle go burn this away and prepare for the next start up. This process can often take several seconds as the mesh and plug are soaked. (I know because I have shut the heater down without using the cool down cycle)
I have nothing against anyone for believing this, but the fact that they make dampers, and most high end heaters have dampers, should be all you need to know.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Absolutely no offense taken, if I am wrong, I am wrong, and I appreciate being bluntly told so!
You make a great point about the dosing damper. My assumption has been that those are a compromise the manufacturers make to try to mitigate a much more customer-facing and immediately apparent complaint with diesel heaters (pump ticking) at the sacrifice of slightly shorter maintenance intervals or longer-term poor running, which a customer may not notice or care about. However, you could very well be right and it's simply that the manufacturers consider it a complete non-issue. Regardless, it does demonstrate that the lower impulse of the fuel is not a huge or critical issue, if it is even an issue at all.
The soot issue I mentioned, I should have explained better, but stupidly the best word I could think of in the moment was 'cooked'. I was essentially trying to describe a rich condition - unignited fuel building up in the heater with no flame, and once the heater does manage to light, fuel air ratio being way off, resulting in soot, smoke, and the heater moaning/vibrating violently as the extra unmetered fuel combusts in an uncontrolled manner, until the heater manages to burn off all the excess.
Similar to what happens when voltage drop is too much for the glow plug and it's just not hot enough to quickly ignite the fuel coming in - you can either up the voltage, or bring the fuel in closer contact with the glow plug. I do agree that John McK gets his share of things wrong (this test procedure for measuring exhaust decibels with/without muffler, for instance), however his test does show that the nylon line would very likely cause direct contact of the fuel onto the glow plug, while the flexible line would not.
I agree there is no flame in the glow plug area while running and glow plug is off, and I'm definitely unsure if higher fuel impulse would have any affect here. I do think it would result in better atomization, as the fuel would be getting shot into the airstream created by the ignition air inlet hole instead of dribbling down the side of the ignition chamber. However, from the experience you describe, it's clear that the fuel is getting kicked up all over the ignition chamber anyway, possibly due to the turbulence of the inlet air or backblast from the combustion event. Or, possibly, the type of line you use (or short length) allows sufficient impulse to be transmitted.
That may be an interesting and relatively easy video idea, if you're not tired of this topic already - trying out different lines and seeing if you can replicate the results John McK got. It's very possible that the flexible, unidentified line he used was just way too soft, and the green weedwacker fuel line that diesel heaters come with is stiff enough that it's not an issue. That would neatly explain all the divergent results and opinions on the topic - impulse might matter, but only in edge cases (unusually flexible or long line, weak fuel pump, large head, etc.) will impulse become so low as to make any sort of difference. Anyway, just a thought.
The chief advantage of the hard nylon line is its imperviousness to degradation from prolonged exposure to diesel fuel containing biodiesel and other lubricity additives. The ASTM standard for fuel tubing rated for biodiesel blends is not met by most clear flexible fuel hoses.
@@wallacegrommet9343 Yes, in many cases the nylon fuel line is better, just not for the reasons stated by many.
@@wallacegrommet9343 Agreed, that is the most important advantage, as it is a safety issue. One big caveat though is that with the cheap diesel heaters, the little bits of rubber hose they provide to link the nylon tube to the fittings are absolute garbage. I've consistently had them start cracking within a year of having regular diesel in them on multiple heaters. I now consider them a 100% no-question must-replace with actual name brand fuel hose from a parts store.
Nice. I just saw a guy do this the other day- "hotwire your diesel heater" or something like that.
Haha... As someone has already posted. The next step is to run it without any ECU at all. Full manual.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Do it! A couple cheap PWM controllers for the fan and glow plug. The glow plug is set to 85w default, but people have said it will run fine at 40 watts. Yeah, I thought it was BS when I first saw it.
Which brand/model heater would you use to warm a small open fishing boat?
You want to warm an open fishing boat ? I'm not sure how this would work. Maybe I just don't know what an "open fishing boat" is.... For anything open you are going to need massive amounts of BTU (kwh).
For brands, you can't go wrong with the high end ones like Planar, Espar and Webasto, but they will cost you 10 times what a chinese copy will. The high end ones will come with sealed electrical connectors, so that's good for a boat. They also come with better quality exhaust and muffler, from everything I've heard.
The chinese copies are all about the same with a few differences / preferences. I have only tested Vevor units and have some 5 kw units linked in the description of this video. If you are trying to heat the enclosed area at the front of a fishing boat, I would assume a single 5kw unit would be enough. I have bluetooth versions listed below that are easy to use and have lots of great reviews.
Is the heater able to be mounted sideways like how u had it on the bench? I was goint to mounted on the wall like that but i seen comments saying u cant do that.
That's not necessarily a yes or no answer. Mine is able to run this way.
What determines if your heater can run like this, is where the flame initiation hole is. This is a small 3mm / 1/8" hole where the fuel line goes into the flow plug area.
They don't always put this hole in the same place and fuel can spill out if it is in the wrong spot , relative to how your heater is sitting. To see this hole you need to remove the fan housing on your heater.
Most holes will be facing the cold air inlet side. If yours is, you can mount it like mine. If your hole is on one side or the other, then you may not be able to.
@loweredexpectations4927 I'm gonna have to check mines, thanks for the reply. 👍
Removing the fuel pump and using gravity only by-passes the safety feature of the unit. When the fuel pump is used and the power to the controller is interrupted the fuel pump stops working thus cutting off fuel and preventing burnout. With a gravity fed system, when power is cut from the controller, the controller shuts off and fan is stopped working yet fuel will continue to feed the unit, cause it to overheat and potentially cause a fire. If you are going to gravity feed you need to a way to also cut the fuel when the power goes out.
Thanks for the comment.
I believe I pointed these things out in my video. This is not safe for a few reasons.
There are ways that you could make this safe, but I probably won't do those things as this was just for an experiment.
The pumps purpose is to lift the fuel if the tank is mounted below the heater, or to insure fuel flow from a long distance especially in colder weather. My unit needs to pull the fuel from at least 6meters, Had huge problems with the supplied fuel hoses Leaking splitting more so in colder weather below -10c Replaced the hoses with insulated copper tubing and heavy duty rated diesel hose and spring clamps on all joints, these are metering pumps and should not be eliminated or by passed, I have spare pump mounted beside the pump so it's only a few minutes to change over if it fails, these pumps are known to fail, and they are cheap, Haven't Had a problem ever since.
There are plenty of great reasons to use rigid fuel line, and if you can justify the cost and effort to install steel or copper, that's awesome... it's not going to give you any troubles.
There are lots of different quality levels of soft fuel line, and many of them deteriorate over time, while I have Yamaha fuel line that is 30+ years old and still as good as the day it was made.
A spare pump. That's a good idea. You are a belt and suspenders sort of fellow, as they say. If it's really cold and your pump fails, you will be glad you did this. These pumps are pretty incredible, but all mechanical things will eventually fail.
Bypassing the pump was only for demonstration purposes, to show that these systems do not require forceful injection of fuel to operate. If the fuel gets to the heater, it will run fine.
You could use your hose clamp with the thumb screw to better control the flow rate of the IV dripper.
Yeah... a needle valve or even a ball valve would be a good choice... I mean... "good" choice as this is just a silly idea, haha. Other than an emergency, this is not at all practical.
i have seen the drip method used a lot in old diesel oil/waste oil conversions for wood stoves. so not a huge surprise that it works well. always nice to find other ways to get the same thing to work. it would be fun to fabricate a new external housing for the burner that allowed it to be used as a water heater. pumping water over the housing instead of air. i haven't set mine up yet but i like the ideas of sending the exhaust through a radiator before it goes outside to extract more heat from it.
Yeah... the problem / confusion is that people hear "diesel" and they think "diesel engine" ... People make a lot of assumptions....
Videos and posts saying "everything you need to know about X" or "You need to know these 5 heater hacks". "What they aren't telling you about your heater" .... those sort of videos do really well.... so a LOT of people who know nothing about these heaters do a quick google search and make one of these sensationalized videos, just for the views.
"it would be fun to fabricate a new external housing for the burner that allowed it to be used as a water heater." I have been strongly considering this. I also want to do the radiator exhaust thing...
@@loweredexpectations4927I saw a British video on the heater where they put the exhaust thru a European wall radiator. Of course it needed a drain to drain the water vapor from the exhaust
@@SR-gt350 I've been wanting to do this with a modern hydronic heater / heat exchanger for a year now... but can't justify the cost.... and with the waste oil testing I was doing, anything I used would have been clogged, haha.
@@loweredexpectations4927 ya, the way you exhausted it onto the garage would recover 100% heat as long as you're OK with water vapor and adjusting for CO as well have CO detectors.
@@SR-gt350 Venting into my garage is not a long term solution, heh... Merely for testing. I feel like regardless of how careful you are, this is not a good idea is you are depending on it for heat.
There are many fun and creative ways to capture heat from the exhaust, and even of you lose a few percent outside, it's worth it to avoid the health risks. Death takes care of all of your health problems, unfortunately there are a lot of other hazards from exhaust gasses, haha.
I setup a 5 gallon gas can exactly how you setup that jug I only have to buy diesel about once a week or so for 20.00 to 24.00 too
That's a good way to do it... you don't want to be messing with diesel every day !
when i disconnect my fuel pump heater want event start, error that pump not detected, how i can bypass this?
If you check the ohm resistance of the pump and install a resistor matching it, this should work. to run my heater I was starting it with the pump plugged in and then unplugging it. It seemed to work for quite some time, but would sometimes give an error and shut down.
I have been running my heater now for 12 hours with no ECU at all... video coming soon. This testing has revealed that the drip feed is not practical and only good for an emergency.
I ran rigid fuel line for protection from rupture. My line runs through unfinished walls and who knows what kind of dumb stuff might be flying through the air. Two days ago, I launched a wheel hub out of my shop press which made for an exciting 2 seconds!
With my recent experience with IVs (funny how this follows the last line so naturally), that little wheel thingamajig is used to stop fluid flow, and not to meter it. They have monitors that meter the dose rates. Maybe you should use that gadget you used to stop the flow, or as another poster said, a needle valve - something with finer adjustment.
Good luck. We're all counting on you.
Haha... stay away from hospitals... unless you really need a hospital.... then, you better got to the hospital !
I agree. Rigid line is absolutely better in many ways. It has a lot of practical uses. No need to make up stories about how soft line absorbs pulses form the pump...
I thought about editing that part out of the video where I commented on the flow valve, haha. My GF (X) is a Vet Tech and that's where I got the IV from. I'm aware they use pumps to control the dose. These valves are actually a emergency pack up and nurses / techs are trained to count out the drips if the machine fails. The drip tube is an indicator so they can see that it's working at a glance.... Like the balls in old gas pumps, haha.... what ever happened to those !!
A needle valve would be way better... Way easier to control !
@@loweredexpectations4927 I am a former EMT and my son is a current nurse tech and nursing student. We all learn how to calculate IV rates using the roller lock and drip chamber. Most ambulances don't have IV pumps, all of their IV's are done with straight drip infusion sets. You don't need a needle valve, that roller valve and drip chamber will be more precise than you'll ever need.
The IV infusion set will also tell you how many drops per mL, 10, 15 and 60 are pretty standard. Knowing that info, the drops per minute and the amount of fuel you have in the tank, you can easily calculate how long the fuel will last.
I didn't see anywhere in the video, where you adjusted the fan speed with the controller. It occured to me, you could control fan speed to lean, or enrichen the flame. To take it one step further, install a rheostat, to fine tune fan speed, for optimal burn
@@bernswonger57 Yes, that is true... You'd want to make sure that everything settles for a few minutes before and after making changes... They take time to settle as the fuel doesn't burn immediately when entering the heater.
I have a few follow up videos to this one where I try to run the heater without an ecu. If you haven't seen them you may be interested.
Hi , I have a Vevor 8 KW with the new blue controller, we are about 895 feet above sea level so tried the Alpine mode by pressing Gear on left and OK buttons on right at the same time and noticed pump slowed down but fan stayed same. heat exchanger temp drops from 142 degs C to about 112 Degs C. this way uses about a litre in 12 hours. Just for your info.
Yes... I have one of these as well, with the alpine mode. I am at 3500 feet and my heater runs at about 210 at the normal setting and 185 on alpine mode.
I don't think there's any harm in running the heater lean as long as it doesn't run too cool.... You could potentially get soot build up from running in alpine mode at your elevation.
I am only running it at H1 setting and turn alpine off and run at H6 for 10 minutes to clear out burn chamber before next use.
I wonder if you could put a normally closed liquid solenoid valve in line with the fuel line, and have it wired into the fuel pump wires so the pulses, with the help of a capacitor circuit, would keep the valve open, but if the power shut down, the fuel line would be closed.
This could work. The issue would be that the ECU needs to see the proper resistance or it will not start / operate . There may be a way to do it.
I have a video coming this weekend where I remove the ECU and run the heater using only a 12V battery and some light bulbs, haha.
Any way to put in a much more efficient 12v motor??? That can attach the fan blades
I'm sure I responded to this, but it is showing up as not responded to.
You could, but most of the losses are going to be from fan drag, heat exchanger drag and the energy it actually takes to move air. a person could design or perhaps find a better fan and polish or modify the exchanger to allow for better flow.
I tried disconnecting my pump to try to slow fuel flow on waste oil it imediately shut off with an error. Can you try using a longer burn chamber with some sort of baffle at the end to keep heat in on waste oil. Mine keeps shutting off due to overheat, if we can keep heat in chamber the oil will burn better and possibly not overheat it.
Yes... some heaters will shut down as soon as they detect the pump missing.
To make a longer burn chamber would also require lengthening the heat exchanger as the burn tube comes very close to the end.
I'm not sure if you have seen my series on burning waste oil. A bunch of those videos / experiments were aimed at trying to keep heat in the burn chamber. I can't remember how well I documented it but I did try many different methods. Some more successful than others.
This "ended" in me deciding that I should design and build my own burn chamber from scratch.
Love your videos. Messed up the 1688 password on mine unfortunately. Worked twice now won't accept it. Heater still works great on my narrowboat. :-)
Oh no.... how did you mess it up ? You changed it to a different number somehow ? I didn't even know that was possible.
Thanks for the comment !
If the pump does not create pressure then why does the fuel seep out of the fuel line connections if not clipped on with the spring pinch rings supplied with the kit ......?
A lot of people seem to get stuck on the word pressure here. Anything that has mass, creates pressure, fuel sitting in a line has pressure, and that is enough to make it leak....
If the pump, heater and fuel line are all below the fuel tank, then the pump is simply acting as a regulator... Gravity is more than capable of feeding the system. If the heater is a foot over the tank, it will have 12" of diesel pressure and 2 feet 24" of diesel pressure.
However, this pressure is at the pump... not at the heater... Not at the chamber. Pressure increases the closer you get to the bottom of a column of fluid and decreases as you go to the top. Where the fuel enters the heater, there is no restriction, so there is no pressure.
I'm guessing you still won't agree with this, buy my point was that the system does not depend on the forceful injection of fuel. If fuel seeps into the chamber, the heater will runfine.
Hi! I would like you if you can to make a test with the lowest drip rate posible......30....40...50 per min ..I have a diesel heater in my balcony to stop the moisture and it consumes too much fuel it works very inefficiently and i would like to make it extreme efficient!
I plan on giving this a try. It should be noted that as the fuel consumption drops, so will the heat output. If you are running your heater with very little fuel and lots of air flow, you will start to lose efficiency, as a larger percentage of your heat will escape out the exhaust.
Well done nice scientific experiment.
I just need to get a lab coat so people take me more seriously. Haha.
I see you test everything. I would like to know what the amp draw is after the start up when the glow plug cuts out.
Are you asking for a video or you just want to know ? haha. Depending on the heat setting, it is between 40 and 50 watts.
Thank you. I doubt you can make a whole video on that amp draw. I was thinking of using a 24 volt drill battery to run it. I already ordered the step down converter twice. The first was only rated at 10 amps, I just ordered a 30 amp one that might get here before the first one.@@loweredexpectations4927
I see I replied to the wrong comment. I'm pretty sure that a substantial tool battery would work to power the Devor, but the scary part would be the battery going dead and the damaging the heater. There is a module that would shut the heater off to save the battery and I think an in-line relay relay could switch on another battery and maybe an alarm to let you know you are on reserve power and even maybe start the sequence to do the Devor shut-down. To simply answer your question in your reply.......YES! @@loweredexpectations4927
Could a metering device like a carburator jet be used?
A few people have suggested this, and also a screw type needle valve. I think the adjustability of the needle valve is idea.
Just thought of something if you run a 12v solenoid valve series in your fuel line it could be on a temperature controlled switch or somehow paralel with the fan?? So when the fans on and energized 12v valve flows fuel. When fans off 12v solenoid valve off? Or would it need another pulse to turn off and not just cease power flow to the fan?
Just quickly looked up how electric solenoid valves work. It should work in parallel with the fan or possibly in series depending on the valve amp rating. That way as soon as the battery runs out for the 12v fan bam fuel cuts off. Or when it overheats or accidentally flames out or from improper fuel air or carbon buildup or a backdraft from wind.
Once the controller notices temperature dropping for ANY reason it will shut power down to the fan and ideally shutoff all fuel flow to the iv dripper valve
Something like this is possible. A normally closed solenoid so if the battery power went out / the fan stops the fuel shuts off. Having it temperature controlled is ideal so that if the heater flames out, the fuel also stops.👍
Actually connecting it to the fan power would not work, as the ECU will see the extra / different load as a problem (if it is too far out of spec) and trigger a fault code and shut the heater down.
This would require a secondary board that took signal from the fan, but used a separate power source. (not power from the fan)
This idea otherwise is a good way to go about doing it.
@loweredexpectations4927 solenoids use next to no power and on a lower than max fan setting it shouldn't throw a code. Worse case scenario you could use a relay with tiny resistor in paralel with fan if the solenoid draws that many amps
@@loweredexpectations4927 let me know if it works you legend thanks for sharing
You could see about adding a electric valve in place of the pump. That way it shuts off with the heater.
Yes, this work work... It's not 100% ideal, as the heater goes through a cool down cycle that takes a few minutes. During this time the fuel would still be flowing.
An electric valve that was connected to a heat sensor, that turned off at 80C would reduce flooding the chamber with extra fuel.
Not that I'm an expert on the matter, but I've been doing a good bit of research on these heaters over the last 6 weeks. When I came across the subject of the fuel line debate, I followed that rabbit hole specifically for a few days. I did see the pressure issue presented, and debunked. The pressure argument is a nonissue.
There were only three issues that I discovered that I concluded to be genuine issues.
1st) The soft line is less resistant to abrasion. If it is routed in such a way that it runs on an edge, it will eventually be perforated and leak.
2nd) The soft line is easily disfigured by external forces. If the line works it's way into a tapered channel, it can eventually be crimped down and restrict the fuel flow. A variation on this fault, is that the line is easily kinked, and once kinked, it is almost impossible to de-kink.
3rd) This was the issue that seemed to be the worst case. The soft line, most notably, the green line, degrades over time. It will eventually come apart, most often near a clamp or fitting. Though there were some cases of breakage at the center of unsupported (suspended) runs over ½ meter in length. In at least one of these cases the vehicles fuel tank was also the heater fuel tank. When the line separated it drained the tank, via siphoning. Approximately 50 liters of diesel drained onto a garage floor over the course of about 12 hours. The heater and fuel line had been in service about 3½ years.
My conclusion was that this issue of degradation was by far the largest hazard. The "Hard line" apparently does not suffer this degradation.
My ultimate conclusion is that I'm going to install the hard line.
I totally agree that hard line is a better option for a vehicle, or anything that will be moving around. There are lots of different quality "green" soft lines, but it seems like you are almost always sure to get good stuff when you buy hard line.
Everything you said here is totally accurate, from what I can tell. 👍
Not totally open, has front deck and short wind deflector/shield. Thinking an 8KW version w/ducting a like car. Heater outlet adapter to 4ea 2" hoses 2X for feet & 2x aimed chest height when seated. 8KW= 27,000 BTUH, even assuming a net of 20,000 BTUH that is equal to four of the (unsafe camp fuel powered) Coleman catalytic radiant heaters. The boat will have 6-8" of coaming so limited direct wind when seated. I've decided to start with a single 8KW heater with removable portable remote fuel tank. Anything will feel good on a freezing 20F/-7C morning. We have fishing as low as -10F/-23C but that was hopefully a onetime exception. Breaking ice in the dark in a small boat is indeed scary.
In almost all cases, the 5 and 8 kw units are in fact actually 5 kw units.... (4.3kw based on fuel consumption tests I have done) This is the case with all brands.
I am getting a heater this week from MaxSpeedgrods that is called an 8kw, and it appears as though it may be a 7kw... I will be testing to see.
You can get the heater end caps so that it has 4 small outlets, rather than the one large one. That is probably a good option.
If you are hoping to have some warm air blow on you, then this may be satisfactory, but the fact that there is no recirculation of the air, the heater is fighting a losing battle (always pulling in cool air and heating it) You will get quite warm air coming out of the heater till around -20 any colder than that and the outlet temp will really start to decrease. Obviously better than whatever the ambient temp is.... If your expectations are set too high, you will be disappointed.
-23C is no joke ! ...I just released a video of myself jet skiing at -10C, haha. I also have a silly video of myself in a inflatable suit, out in -18C with a 2kw heater.
très intéressant , merci ,Je vais essayer ce sous peu.
Bien que mon monsieur s'appelle "Arseneault", je n'ai compris que la première partie, et j'ai ensuite dû traduire, haha. Comme c’est embarrassant.
Amuse toi et fais attention.
Amazing how cats always end up on their feet. Slow motion showed it purrfectly how they do it. He was demonstrating for the camera. 😻
🤣 Yes... what looks like an accident in real time, almost looks planned in slow motion.
I wonder if these are designed for tank to be below the heater as in a vehicle requiring the pump. As you have done what of restricted gravity feed with shut of solenoid.
Also using supplied pump have pumped up to 2 metres above fuel tank.
Not sure if I understand your full comment. These are designed so that you can plae the fuel tank above, or a few feet below. The pump will have enough power to lift the fuel to your heater if it isn't too high.
I have purchased 30 metres of fuel line and plan on doing some testing soon.
Do you think you could use a needle valve upstream of the drip to have better regulation of the drip. You could use a 1/4" fridge waterline tie in needle valve from lowes or home despot. Also you could have a small 12volt solenoid up stream of the needle valve so if the power to the fuel pump shuts down it normally closes
The valve idea is great... much better way to control flow... either side of the drip would work I suspect.
Something like this would work, however, the fuel pump pulses / power to the pump pulses, so it would have to be triggered in some other way.
@loweredexpectations4927 yes, that's what I was thinking about the solenoid valve too. The other power take off is to splice into the fan power
@@SR-gt350 👍 The problem with splicing into the fan is that the fan will keep going until the heater is fully powered down. You really need something to detect if the heater gets cold ... if the temperature drops below 80C, you want the fuel to shut off. In the video I caused the heater to flame out by stopping the fuel flow, and it cooled all the way from 200C to 64 before it finally realized there was a problem. The fan will continue to run for several minutes after this and that would cause the heater to become really flooded with diesel.
This is basically how they do it with the OEM setup... but ideally it would trigger much sooner.
@loweredexpectations4927 yes, I was thinking the same thing.
You need a little needle valve in there to control flow. I don't know how compatible it'd be from a chemical standpoint but have a look in the drip irrigation department of your favorite home improvement store, they have little plastic needle valves to adjust water flow for like 50¢ a pop.
Funny that you mention that. An old friend of mine stopped by the other evening and had the exact same thing to say, haha. I may even have a brass needle valve around, but I'm not sure that I could make it fit, so the 50 cents is probably a better idea.
They make brass ones too. I got one at some hardware store somewhere some time ago. I have it right here. See. Oh wait. Never mind. Nice video. :)
@@ebenwaterman5858 Haha... Yes... I have one I think for the humidifier feed line on a furnace. Not the easiest thing to attach to as it uses compression fittings and 1/8 npt .
@@loweredexpectations4927 Yeah, guess that's why I haven't used it yet. :)
I love your cat. Clearly has super-powers :)
He has to have super powers to make up for not being a very good cat 🤣 ... just falling off the edge for no reason, lol
All cats are good cats :)
@@patchvonbraun 👍