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Mike Greenberg has some thoughts on the LeBron James-Michael Jordan debate | Get Up! | ESPN
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ค. 2018
- Mike Greenberg has some strong thoughts on the LeBron James-Michael Jordan debate.
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LeBron got them MyCareer numbers right now
Yup them Freq numbers 😂😂😂😂😂
Facts 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Them my career finals losses too
Then Vic can leer numbers oh wait...
Against Hall of Famers
oh ok so 5 final losses is worst than 4 first round losses..ohhh ok
jaidenxk Forbes 3 1st round losses. As a rookie, and his 2nd and 3year verse top 5 all time Celtics teams. Who did lebron beat that was an all time great his first 3 years in the league?
its 4 lol..nd thats not true
jaidenxk Forbes and going to the finals more and still winning less rings is better than going less times yet winning more... ohhh ok
What are you doing? You know we aren't allowed to make sense on the internet?
Like I shouldn't mention that MJ had a hall of fame coach throughout the bulk of his career.. And how when he went to play baseball, the bulls only loss 2 less games and had a real chance to competing for a championship without him.
jaidenxk Forbes name the 4. I’ll wait?
I feel like people always overlook level of talent in the league. Steve Kerr is the only Legend who seems to acknowledge that the skill level has risen a lot since Jordans day.
The overall skill level of the NBA has absolutely increased over time, which is the normal progression of sports. That's absolutely true. However, as someone who is a huge LeBron fan, and would chose him over to Jordan as a teammate, and as a basketball player, I know with certainty you would chose to play against a LeBron lead team than a Jordan lead team. The man could literally will a team to victory, whether it be offensively or defensively. I've never seen anything like it in fact. I fully acknowledge the fact that the current best players of other sports are better than the people admired in the past, such as football etc, but there is a reason people don't move on from Jordan...Maybe because it's true?
Nah. They let them get away with more. You should look up a video titled the NBA had made the game easier. They guys skill is not higher now. They just allow them to get away with more.
Michael was the most electrifying player to watch in NBA history
Have you seen a guy named LeBron James?
Herb Young lol i was just thinking that
I thought Julius irving
People called jordan black jesus.
@@herbyoung2767 Watched both in my lifetime. MJ at 6’6” did things that Lebron (6’9”) just didn’t do. Lebron is a big guy that bullies his way to the basket with his big body. MJ was a blur and truly ‘electrified’ his viewers every time he played. We see Bron do his thing and it’s amazing, but MJ was just different. Lebron will have the better stats because he’s in the league longer. MJ did more in less time. All stats aside, nobody ever looked better on the court (and in the air) like Mike. NOBODY.
It's not Lebron's fault Dan Gilbert is a terrible owner and couldn't surround Lebron with talent, so he had to leave.
Until Chill and MJ asked for a trade multiple times but these dumb Jordan fans never mention that, he wanted to leave the Bulls he wasnt loyal lmao
He had a team... his team had the best record in the nba the year he got swept by the spurs and ran to Miami to play with all stars
People don’t want to play with lebron
Johnny Blaze bro.. the second best player on that team was averaging barely 10 points lmfao.. do you know who was on that cavs team? Lebron made them the 1 seed all by himself
David Stern was the real GM of MJ back in the days... Stern made sure MJ won more rings before leaving the Bulls
The fact that LBJ did not win the DPOY in 2013 and 2014 just shows that that award is basically meaningless. I mean Scottie Pippen never won it, and he was a better defender than MJ...
RogerFederer777 no he wasn’t. Look at MJ’s numbers and host games played. The dude is ridiculous.
Adam Maclada 1213Magic was old as dirt that series and clearly was not that Magic we all think of due to his age. Same for Bird and Isaiah Thomas when he played them
Jordan was a better lock down defender while Pip was a little more versatile. However Pippen exerted a lot more energy on defense and took the toughest assignments for the majority of the game. In fact, the latter part of MJs career even Ron Harper along with Scottie Pippen took the tougher assignments to allow MJ to rest on defensive so he'd have energy on the offensive end.
Lebron was never a good defender
Pippen was a better defender. 91 NBA finals, Magic was crushing Jordan and they had to switch Pippen on him and he shut Magic out from that point on. Pippen was always assigned to guard the best player on the team they faced
Jalen Rose man, he said in 2018 LeBron one of the 3 best ever. Now he’s saying lebron isn’t top 3
i used respect his takes but hes slowely turning those reporters who love using specific stat to favor his argument
Jalen his one of the haters
Both are incredible basketball players. I am glad i was alive to see Jordan play since 84 and i am glad I am still alive watching Lebron.
I totally agree. The artificial scenario of who is better is silly, but peaks interest in fans of different generations. I'm lucky to have watched MJ and LeBron play their entre careers (I actually watched Jordan at UNC). I see it this way....if I wanted to play on a team, I would probably chose LeBron, but if I had to play against another player, there is no way on earth I would chose Jordan on the other team. Different players completely. With that said, I've NEVER seen a player will himself to victory like MJ, rather it be offense or defense, so I personally feel Jordan is in another stratosphere than LeBron, but I certainly see how younger people may view it differently....especially if you want to bring in longevity and all time numbers. At their peaks though.....not sure it was that close tbh.
@@jaquevius if Lebron was on the bulls he would go 6for6 and if jordan was on the 2016 cavs he woulda won too
@@psychosocialcom love this comment!
Bottom line...if LeBron does take this Frankenstein team to the finals and wins...the debate is over !
Ken Aguilara how does that make sense? If he doesn’t win the championship this year the debate doesn’t end, no one would expect one single player to carry a whole team to win a championship and don’t start some bs and tell me that MJ did because MJ had top players to help him.
except that he's a 3-6 flopping bitch. the debate is over.
If he gets swept debate over
Sicks Gawd hahaha....why lebron went to miami?coz hes afraid he cant get a ring....jordan made pippen and his teamates become top.player bcoz of him...6-0.....end of debate.....leboom playa in a softest era of the nba...
carlos caponpon and then came back to Cleveland after they had a 33-49 season, leading them to the finals without kyrie or love. Yeah they lost without his star players while the golden state warriors had they’re full star lineup. Then brought the team back the next year to the finals and overcame a 3-1 lead. Don’t act like lebron doesn’t make everyone around him better and tell me that Jordan did it all on his own.
Jalen rose come again with the false narrative of lebron not being clutch.
EMAK did you listen to the whole video. smh
Exactly Bron has always been clutch just ask Detroit ....
LeBron > MJ > Magic Johnson > Kareem > Shaq > Kobe > Larry Bird
Lebron isn't clutch
Guess you dont watch basketball
How come nobody ever says “scottie pippen has 6 rings”?
AJ85 but you do know without pip he wouldnt have those rings right?? Pip got pretty far without mj
AJ85 d wade get praise and he wasnt the main player in miami when lebron got there
AJ85 yea and who he had on his team?? Prime shaq!
AJ85 so scottie got rings cus of mj but lebron got his rings cus of kyrie and wade?? You make no sense
AJ85 im a fan of mj and lebron, and im not bias i call it how i see it, yes my favorite player right now is lebron but overall i think mj is the goat cus its facts BUT he didnt do it alone
4 years later and he is half a season from #1 LOVE YOU BRON
Jalen salty He Not In The Top 30 Small Fowards Of All Time
Mackie SoLoud not even top 100.
He was a Point guard lol.
He’s still talking facts tho
top 50 ...come on now..he aint near top 30..
salty 😂😂😂.
Jalen talking out his ass rn. Lebron left Cleveland because the organization was trash. Lebron beat Detroit at a young age I'm sure you remember it, 25 straight points. He hit clutch buckets vs the Wizard and Celtics back then. He just wasn't the "clutch" you guys wanted him to be. Also Lebron should have won Defensive player of the yr Gasol won it...everyone knew it...MJ is better but give Bron his props.
Jalen speaking facts don't forgot to mention the game after he scored 25 straight he went 3-11 in the next game and shot 21% while Daniel Gibson scored 33 and sent the cavs to the finals
Star bronsexuals don't wanna talk about that
Brago D. Ace lebron shouldn't have won . Marc gasol led the grizzlies to the #1 defense and was #1 in a lot of defense categories.
Star You talking about the 07 Cavs team that LEBRON carried to the finals?
Star FACTS
Everybody who still has a crush on MJ ... put your hands up ..
Do people remember that Michael retired for 2 years in the 90s and cameback and won 3 more in a row. Lebrons been in the league since he was 18 years old. Michael played a shorter time span and at one point it was by choice.
Who had more help overall?
Lebron
Came back 95 and lost
@@NBAKING149 to all time great team like: shaq, penny, 3d and grant
His skills began to diminish. Jordan couldn't continue or get better. Lebron is 37 and ungaurdable
Look im a kid thats grown up watchin lebron but when i watch mj there is something legendary about it
yeah its the legend of the name....
Vibrio your all lucky to be watching greatness, there should be no debate, be happy to watch him, because what would basketball be these days without him !
That's because you only see the highlights--not his entire pro career--like how he didn't get past Detroit until Scottie Pippen joined the Bulls, etc. etc. Lebron carried bad teams on his back through the playoffs even before winning championships.
Ulysses432 Actually, no. I've been a fan of MJ since his college days. I watched him then and was a fan when Detroit was kicking his a**. Remained a fan all throughout his career--even though I thought his last years away from the Bulls were a little too ego driven.
I disagree about the MJ making it to finals being a feat--all of his teams had at least 3 hall of famers. The most Lebron has had on one team is 2: Wade & Bosh (though some people argue against Bosh being an HOFer). And I believe the league overall has many more talented players now spread throughout than during MJ's playing days. The reason why a lot of MJs contemporaries can't give up on the notion that he's the GOAT is that their egos can only accept being beaten by someone of that caliber. MJ was the GOAT when his career was done. Now, Lebron IS the GOAT. And he's not done yet.
Ulysses432These are my opinions and I stand by them. Again I watched in real-time, not edited highlight films. I was & still am a fan of MJ. But Lebron is a whole other being--his basketball intelligence, his body, his skills and his ability with assists and defense--and he continues to improve his game at 33 y.o.! Clinging to myths (which I find annoying because the reality makes him the 2nd best NBA player of all time!) about who and what MJ was is not going to change the fact the Lebron IS the GOAT!
Jalen is right. Jordan's peak (which was really from 1988 - 1993) is higher than anyone else's peak in the past 40 years. During that 7 year period, Jordan averaged 33.2 points, 6.4 rebounds, 6.0 assists, 2.8 steals, 1.0 block, shooting 52% from the field and 84.6% from the line.
But in the playoffs Jordan was even better. 34.6 points, 6.7 rebounds, 6.6 assists, 2.3 steals, 1.0 blocks shooting 50.2%, 35.7, and 83.3%. People are losing perspective because LeBron is putting up similar numbers in this years playoffs. Jordan did it for 7 straight years!!!!
In 7 years, he was also 3 x MVP, 3 x Finals MVP, 3 Championships, Defensive player of the year, 7 x All NBA, 6 x All Defensive, 7 x scoring titles, 3 x steals leader, All star MVP, 2 x Dunk champion, Gold Medalist.
I agree that Jordan's peak is the best of all time. This is the reason that Jordan is the goat. But Jalen is not arguing that Jordan is the goat because his peak is the best. He is arguing Jordan is the goat because of his finals record, this idea that LeBron was not clutch early in his career, and this idea that Jordan was a better defender. The finals record argument is irrelevant. That is not an individual accomplishment. The clutch argument and the defense argument are statistically false. Jordan at his best was simply better than LeBron at his best. Therefore Jordan is the goat.
THANK YOU !! JORDAN WILL ALWAYS BE THR GOAT .
Lebrons peak isn’t over yet...it’s only been what a decade😭😭😭😭😭
I think Jalen sort of made that point about their respective peaks, but then quickly moved on to speak about Jordan's defense.
I think the peak argument is the best measure of who is the GOAT. Not only was Jordan's peak higher than anyone else, but it also lasted for 7 seasons until it was cut short by retirement in 1993. And then his "sub-peak" years in 1985, 1996 and 1997 were still incredible averaging 29.4 points, 6.3 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 2.1 steals and 0.6 blocks shooting 49.8%, 37.9% and 83.8 in those three years. You could even argue that Jordan's sub-peak is better than any one else's peak!
People get confused when they look at career totals because players like Kareem, Karl Malone and eventually Lebron are on top because they have played more games.
I also agree the finals record isn't as important as people think because championships are team awards. I think it's more important to look at LeBron's individual performances in those finals like in 2011 against Dallas or 2007 against the Spurs. That's why LeBron got the "not clutch" reputation because he really struggled in those series. He is certainly clutch now.
jxn23 Man, you really gotta dig deep to find sound arguments on this page. Thank you for this! Great points!
Lebron played zero defense at all this year but we are supposed to believe this was his best year ever. Come on
Tbh most players at his age aren't really good defenders.
Tmunch83 Regardless you can’y deny the fact he was incredible this year. This post season (up to the finals) proves he’s up there w MJ
Let's break this down. Cleveland's 2018 team was trash,. Before and after the trade deadline, he had to carry all the offence, every play had to go through him. He scored and / or assisted on 75% of all Cavs buckets. He also did play defense in crucial moments, ie the Cavs vs twolves game, OT come back.
He sacrafises on defense because he has to do everything on offense
Stop lying
Lebron can guard all 5 positions. I hate that statement. MJ played in an era with real centers not Euro stretch 5's.
I hate your statement. even if they "euro stretchs" does that mean they only shoot 3s and never use their body to go rack?
Lebron can handle drummond if he wants so tell me one stronger 90s center than drummond?
@@hihiihihihi8408 So you're telling me drummond is an offensive force? He couldn't handle Shaq, Robinson, Ewing or Hakeem. Stop with the fanboy shit and talk realistically.
@@hihiihihihi8408 You're an idiot ifb you think guarding these stretch fives is ANYTHING close to guarding Shaq, Ewing, Robinson or Dream. You fanboys lose all sense of reality when trying to defend L36ron.
Drummond is one of the alltime strongest guy in the league so ur comment irrelevant.. time has golden ur memories they are humans like todays players not unicorns
Michael Jordan age 34:
6th Championship
6th Finals MVP
5th MVP season
All-NBA First Team
All-Defensive First Team
Michael Jordan Age 33:
5th Championship
5th Finals MVP
All-NBA First Team
All-Defensive First Team
Lebron Age 33:
All NBA First team
Kyle Bae you left a lot of LeBron stats off and you gave Jordan an extra year.
Kyle Bae Jordan played against amateur body builders, plumbers, grocery baggers, airport janitors and crossing guards and shot 29% from 3
LeBron James plays against NBA athletes who can shoot 3s. Never compare him to that glorified Demar DeRozan ever again
young Assasin LeBron James isn’t 34 years old yet.
These aren’t even stats these are notable accolades
DonPenn41 lmao
Kyle Bae James isn't 34 years no shit..........💀 but yet that didn't stop you from comparing him from 34 year old Jordan and you left a lot of accolades out of LeBron stats.
Jalen is one of those haters....clearly
I guess greeny a Jordan hater then🤷🏽♂️
SuperTrustFall no u all just nick wright babies nothing more , go 7-7 in finals and be called goat pretty simple.
He spoke facts though. Y'all just can't realize it.
SuperTrustFall how is he a hater because he said 6 is better then 3 you dumb fuck
Facts? So making the finals now is a greater accomplishment that getting washed in the first round? Hitting buzzer beaters, taking over late in games, and destroying the pistons scoring last 25 points while carrying a team by himself is not "clutch". Leaving Cleveland after giving them 7 years to let his team build him a winning squad or pairing him with anything half as good as Pippen because he had real ambitions to win makes him "weak" or not "ready" to win. Playing far far far stiffer competition in the finals between Spurs, 3 HOFers later 4 HOFers, GSW 3 HOFers later 4 HOFers and even the baby thunder with 3 HOFers and another all star is better than MJ who never played a team with more than 2 but often only 1 HOFer. How about Longevity as well and sustained greatness? Never retiring mid career? Being more efficient and versatile? Passing the eye ball test? I guess that's just "stat stuffing" now isn't it. There are some facts and things to dwell on. I don't think LeBron is necessarily #1 I tend to side with Greeny they are both just the greatest to ever do it and trying to say one is much better than the other is just biased nonsense.
MJ was always clutch? Never made it past the first round of the playoffs until pippen came in the league...
lechoke need teamup to get a ring,not to mention lechoke face against soft defense unlike Jordan against bad boy,jazz,heat,knicks,heat,cavs🤫
@Jose Lugo lechoke is just a loser,bad image to Youngblood,he teach young kid how to be a coward when you fail to get a ring,teamup with stars and still get less mvp,fmvp,scoring champ than michael jordan😂
Hes also went 5/19 in a finals game before... 11 pts i think. Also when he scored that 63 they lost. IJS
@@lecowardjames Those teams he faced would get mopped in todays game.
@@yrudonking lechoke in a era place only know chuck up 3 pointers and made a useless crossover is more skills😂nowadays player footwork is horrible,always travelled,flop to gain free throws,big man unable to plays under basket,big man liability shot 50fg%,assist allowed players dribble before shot😂and made zero steps to allowed players travelled everytime when they attack the rim😂
coward James need to team up 3 times still less ring than Mike,and lose more finals than Mike,mj never have a series shots under 40fg%🤫lechoke never had a series avg 40ppg,his best series is 38ppg😂and mj has 5,in 2015 NBA finals he has chance to pad his stats and he still only give you 35ppg,shot under 40fg% on 30 plus attempt 🤭
Dam jalen is really gonna be ignorant like that smh
George yeah Jalen kinda embarrassed himself arguing with greeny on this one. It's like he's ignoring Lebron's body of work, because of the comparisons of the finals records
George bron da reason why old people disregard stats 😅😅 totally pathetically biased... but they ALWAYS bring up stats tuh prove mj da goat talkin bout his point average cuz basically thas pretty much all dey got... dey dont even realize da stupidity 😅😅
George
Jalen made legit points.
Tony Boots which were?
I love jalen for this
Love this debate. I do, however, find it puzzling logic to penalize LeBron for having been better than Jordan at a younger age. Somebody help me out here . . .? As a friend of mine said, while Jordan was a junior in college putting up 20 points a game, LeBron @ that age was putting up 30 points a night in the NBA. ... In other words, his game was more developed than Mike's at an early age. Which leads to the question: at what age did Jordan eclipse LeBron?
when jordan got 3 superstars on his team and won 6-0 in finals by himself apparently. LOL
when lebron got bosh,allen and wade(all star superstar), kyrie(allstar), westbrook ,melo(allstar), anthony davis(allstar) a total of 4 rings in 22 yrs in nba.,seriously???? vs pippen ,rodman?
Mj would NEVER leave his team so he can win somewhere else regardless of the situation, Mj elevated his teammates, he made them push their limit and be better basketball players
Did he elevate them when he was getting swept in the first rounds of the playoffs
@伟生余 bro what ? lebron left because the organization failed him and his teammates. Management never cared about lebron but for Jordan there organization surrounded him with players and a great head coach
@@wayneharaseb2258 LeBron bis first years did not make the playofs
Compared to Jordan who got swept
(Playoff highs.)Who do you want on your team in the finals?
M. jordan 63 L. james 51
M. jordan 56 L. james 49
M. jordan 55 L. james 49
M. jordan 55 L. james 48
M. jordan 55 L. james 47
M. jordan 54 L. james 46
M. jordan 50 L. james 46
M. jordan 49 L. james 45
M. jordan 49 L. james 45
M. jordan 48 L. james 45
M. jordan 48 L. james 45
M. jordan 47 L. james 45
M. jordan 47 L. james 45
M. jordan 46 L. james 45
M. jordan 46
M. jordan 46
M. jordan 46
M. jordan 46
M. jordan 45
M. jordan 45
M. jordan 45
M. jordan 45
M. jordan 45
I was atlease expecting you to touch these stats
Lol show the rest of the stats and damn near triple double lebron would put up every time he scored 40 our more in the playoffs and let’s not forget the 1500 less shots lebron took to pass Jordan in playoff scoring idc if he played more games he is way more effective it’s not even funny.. or the fact that any of the super teams Jordan played in the 80s all best him over and over again like get real you Jordansexuals are seriously the funniest thing I’ve ever seen in my life.. Jordan lost and missed just like everyone else also was swept twice in the first round and 1-9 without Scottie and grant in the playoffs so he could put up all the points he wanted still couldn’t win and those are just facts make whatever excuses you want
@@johnjason7385 FACTS!!!
The highest was a loss.....need to put the wins and losses. Jordan is still the goat
@@johnjason7385 how many times did Jordan lead the league in Scoring ? How many times did he lead the league in steals ? How many times did he win defense player of the year ? How many times did he make the NBA first defensive team ? How many Dunk contest he won ? How many Olympic gold medals he won ? How many times did he lose in the NBA finals ? And when MJ played point guard for the bulls , how many tripple double he averaged ? His achievement is what makes him better than LeBron James, not just stats , because MJ had a mentality to be a winner , not just a stats machine , and greatness is define by winning, not by statistics.......
As Hakeem said... Michael Jordan is far more superior player then LeBron James.
@Hiawatha...some people believes cowherd, wright and sharpe more than hakeem tho smh
There both great, but in different ways!
Even pippen said LeBron is a better player😅 get over it😂
Ulysses432 watch “Stephen A and scottie pippen intensly discuss Lebron james vs Michael Jordan” and listen around 0:14 😅😂 and that’s not the only time he’s said this🤦🏽♂️
Hiawatha nope
This guy got the statistics wrong when they were right there on the screen. DO YOUR JOB!
canucturbo2224 he didn't choose the wrong word
canucturbo2224 quick, delete that ...there’s still time
canucturbo2224 You’re dumb lol
He was right about one thing though Jordan is too small to guard Forwards and Centers but the 2012-2013 Lebron could guard anyone, weighed 270 lbs and was still faster than any guard in the full court while being a deadly 3pt shooter that season
LeBron > MJ > Magic Johnson > Kareem > Shaq > Kobe > Larry Bird
Put this BS TO REST ONCE AND FOR ALL IF YOU HAVE A MINUTE TO READ!!!
“Jordan’s resumè in its totality would allow him to remain in the spot of being the greatest of all time”
MJs resumé:
MJ vs LeBron
Updated after Lebrons 14th season. Michael Jordan has:
•3 more rings
•3 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer lol.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more offensive help
•Jordan never had a teammate averaged more than 22 points in the finals.. In fact, Mj is Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
* In the Bulls' 1997 playoff run, Scottie Pippen averaged 19 points per game on 42% shooting. All other teammates of Jordan averaged under 8 points per game
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
All of this accomplished in 13 seasons
Lebron after his 14th season, is still chasing the "ghost (GOAT) that played in Chicago"
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
•Mj also has more career blocks (893) than Lebron James (853) despite playing in 22 LESS career games and being the smaller guy.
Also, MJ averaged 1.6 blocks per game in the 1987-88 season which is absolutely bonkers for a 6'6" shooting guard.
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn't even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
MIchael Jordan:
•NBA record 5 playoffs series’ averaging atleast 40ppg
•Only player in history to lead league in scoring and win DPOY
•Highest scoring average, points per game, in any championship series:
41.0 vs. Phoenix Suns, 1993 NBA Finals
•Only rookie in NBA history to lead his team in four statistics (1984-85)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring, win Most Valuable Player, and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season (1987-88)
•Only player in history to average at least 30pts 6reb 5assists And 2 steals per game AND HE DID IT 7 TIMES.
•Only player in NBA history to win Rookie of the Year (1984-85), Defensive Player of the Year (1987-88), NBA MVP (1987-88, 1990-91, 1991-92, 1995-96, 1997-98), All-Star MVP (1988, 1996, 1998), and Finals MVP (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring and win the NBA championship MORE THAN ONCE in the same season
* He did this SIX TIMES!! (1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1995-96, 1996-97, 1997-98)
•One of two players in NBA history to score 3,000 points in a season: 3,041 points scored in 82 games played (37.1 ppg) (1986-87)
* Wilt Chamberlain is the only other player to achieve this.
•MJ is also the only player in NBA history to score over 40 points at age 40, and he did it twice!
•In 1988, MJ earned: Dunk Champ, All Star Game MVP, NBA Scoring Title, League MVP and Defensive Player of the Year🐐
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career...
Check Mate.
1000Kbaby
Ug
Lebron is still playing
His resume has not been submitted yet!!!
So sorry you can create stats to highlight Mj
Okay I can show a tone that woukd highlight Lbj
He isnt done yet
Lebron to dominate for 4/5 more years
Lbj is going to a good plyr at age 40
Hes going to
I know it
1000Kbaby dam bro I bow down good job.
1000Kbaby haters gonna hate. You’re a hater. And that’s ok I won’t judge you. LeBron is the king. Bow down hater
Appreciate your effort at listing this, but you're missing a point that leads james to this talk: his perseverance. LBJ against warriors, refs, jr smith, and now MJ fans. Yet he doesn't let the pressure drag him down. He soars while we debate. Skill wise, MJ is still GOAT. MJ is BETTER. But I believe that and stats were not things that brought up this conversation. It is their IMPACT in the game. And in that particular take, LBJ is still better than Jordan. No drugs, no extra chick, excellent father, shuts up haters with his performance. He is clean. He is the role model.
Gideon Kho i don't recall anything about jordan and drugs. And there was nothing wrong with mj's father either. And u never kmow, unless your in his circle, about another chic. But, i thought this debate was about their play anyways???
The thing that i like about mike is the handle, he had better handle
Its easy to be great in a soft defensive league. Michael did it while getting his ass beat up.
yeah i know he was getting his ass beat by the pistons lakers and celtics until the 90s lol.
who went on to lose in the finals. the exact same thing you just gave credit to Jordan for.
Exactly
@Requiem sir I don’t think he meant what you are saying. He meant MJ played in an era where there was no excuses and everything was harder than today’s game,PERIOD!!! That’s why it’s easy for the so called king to win and run over any of today’s teams because you don’t see that effort and commitment. It’s more about accumulating more followers and views and all digital media such as Instagram, Twitter and Facebook . That’s what everyone is forced nowadays and yes I know it’s the future and all but man, we lost that identity
@Requiem so then why would you spare the experience for LeBron to also get the feeling of being hacked and crushed to the ground and survived and bring on 6 championship rings with no loss! It is a must for LJ to be treated badly also to understand greatness at the highest level
After LBJ locked down prime Derrick Rose, there shouldn't be doubts. Jalen must have missed that series. And FYI, both Lebron 's signature move and most iconic moment is a defensive move... The chase down block.
DRose averaged 26/5/8 in that series. That's not getting locked up lmao. He just had no help and was worn out in the 4th quarter. Smh.
Lebron could not even lock a raw Kawhi down in 2014 finals.
eugene kim
Nooo, actually D Rose would feast on Jordan. You have to understand, not even prime Jordan’s scrawny ass would be able to keep up with athletic players like prime D Rose. Understand that the game has evolved. Look at how scrawny players were back then and look at how athletic players are today.
Navaro Palm the same kawhi that averaged 14 pts on 40% ?
italkshyt14 you're insane... lol. Think about what you just said for a second... jordan scrawny? The years he won all his championships he weighed at least 215 lbs. Not the heaviest by any means but scrawny??.. and for you to say that the goat would get owned by drose.....I'm speechless. Seems like you were born after the year 2000. I like drose but he made of glass physically and mentally. Only player to win MVP and defensive player of the year award in the SAME YEAR. Gtfoh
The debate died once Lebron teamed up with Wade and then ended up losing (giving up) vs. DAL in the finals. People like to focus on the present, but conveniently forget the past
So was the debate dead when MJ couldn't win without Scottie...
Or was it dead when he only took 8 shots in an 89 playoff game?
Or was it dead when he never won a chip without Phil Jackson?
@@Cediedash22 exactly my point and they just forget about Jordan in the wizards
@@yusuf9420 yeah..... people conveniently forget about that.
Can you imagine jordan stats if he played as many seasons as LeBron did
Can you imagine LeBron's stats if he took as many shots as Jordan did
If jordan cared about stats there's no telliing what his numbers would've been and if he didn't retired the first time he would've have 8 titles straight but two 3peats and 72-10 record is great also 👌🏾 how do you beat that?
@@rojeliocastro9733 I can imagine it would be like his free throw percentage. No goat for you learn how to shoot a free thow🤣🤣🤣🤣
Jordan wasn't good enough to play 19 seasons of MVP caliber basketball. He WASN"T GOOD ENOUGH! That's just a fact. He HAD to attend college. He HAD to take a break. He HAD to retire. These are facts.
@@MrDeathdealer79 what if LeBron shot as many shots as Jordan
Mike never had to guard anybody ...two guards were trash back then drexler couldn’t dribble left ..Miller couldn’t dribble at all .. dumars was 6”2
Jermaine Mathis Drexler, Miller and Dumars were better shooting guards than any shooting guards today. The no rules of Basketball today makes players look better than
they really are. Anyone on today's game can score 40 points due to the trash defense of today's game. Any scrub can grab 15 boards and give up 10 assists. Palmimg and carrying the ball the extra steps no grabbing nor touching nor protecting the rim makes alot easier to score in nowdays. Don't believe what today's sport analysts in choir shout. They only see stats and numbers that are inflatuated by today's soft rules of the game. NBA is a business. The crowd wants to see 360 dunks with no opposition because you'll be call for a flagrant foul if you sneez on your opponent. People wants to see 3 pointers from 3 feet from the arc despite that the shooter takes 4 steps before releasing the ball (hello Kyle Korver among others). The crowd wants see records breaking so the NBA and its referees allows the attacker to carry/palm the ball take 2 or 3 extra steps make a charge on the defender and score at ease (hello Lebron James). Without physical contact there's no Defense. Its simple as that. The league cleaned up the dirty play to avoid violence both on the basketball court and on the stands but its gone a little too far. And they are selling today's game like it is the new Coca-Cola and the business is good. The only problem is that once ultra competitive league as become a soft and mediocre one - a Circus a playoff game is played with the intensity of an All Star Game
Larry Bird its not lebron fault the game evolded he just taking advantage 😂😂 but you're entitled to you're opinion
Larry Bird drexler Miller and Dumars are all better than James harden right
Larry Bird thank you for this
Gram man James 5 or 6 steps Harden in the 70s 80s or 90s would be an average player.
Jordan never faced the same competition Lebron faced in the Finals!!!! Facts!!!!
No he faced better
Prove it!!!!
Lebron faces victore oladipo and Kyle Lowry in the playoffs nuff said💀💀💀
Golden State would destroy any team Jordan has faced in the Finals....
Robin Kirkhom just like they destroy Lebron bum ass
Look at Jordans defensive numbers at age 40, during his wizards years. Jordan at age 40 averaged more steals than Lebron has in the last 3 seasons. MJ @ age 40 averaged less turnovers than Lebron has his entire career. Only .4 of a point separate them in blocks. 40 year old MJ was a better defender than Lebron has been since 2004, Lebrons best defensive year. I hate when these "talking heads" completely ignore the defensive end of the court.
Mj trash
@@trevorbeaton1037 bronsexual
@Rishy Singh Lebron never played in a league as physical as the era MJ played in. How many times did the pistons and the knicks put MJ on his ass, but MJ kept coming. He kept perfecting his game. Even the GSW would be a different team in that era. Steph would be put on his ass every possession. The 90s gave us the jordan rules. You really don't think they would have implemented the GSW rules? Yeah the Bulls got to the conference finals without him, but they won 6 titles with him and none without; so what are you saying? I'm not saying Lebron isn't an all time great. Certainly top 5. But he hasn't passed MJ or Kareem.
AJ Jamaal Jordan didn’t play in a league as physical as the one Wilt and Bill claimed, Wilt also changed rules, Russell has more rings, wilt averaged 50 a game etc etc
@@Franz082011 the league wilt and russell played in had 9 teams and a bunch of white dudes. Are you going to tell me that era had more skill and talent?
LBJ's managed to lengthen his career because he's never played a full season with the exception of this season.
Greenberg forgets, guarding big men today ain't the same as big men in MJs era! Ewing, Alonso Morning, Olajuwon, Robert Parish, David Robertson, Tim Duncan, Kareem, and of course, Shaq! Don't think Lebron could guard the bigs in that era!
on the money
Jay Bird preach
Jay Bird Yeah because MJ guarded Curry, Kyrie, CP3, Klay, KD, Kawhi, Prime Melo, Prime Kobe, Prime Pierce, prime DWade, Tmac, Vince, DeMar, and Butler. The best player MJ guarded was Clyde drexler, they always gave the best player to Scottie. I remember MJ didn’t even have to try on defence because he was facing bums and focused all his energy on offense
Parkgod2k18 Yeah, just like Lebon tried to guard KD in last years finals! You think any of those guards can stop MJ from averaging 35+? Not saying Lebron is not a great player, but todays NBA you drive the lane, get hit it's called a flagrant! That's soft, Bruh!
Jay Bird he guarded TD snd Gasol. Jordan never came close to guarding those types for any prolonged period in of time.
Michael Jordan has
•3 more rings
•3 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer lol.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more help
•Jordan never had a teammate averaged more than 22 points in the finals..
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
All of this accomplished in 13 seasons
Lebron is in his 15th season still chasing the "ghost that played in Chicago"
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 STRAIGHT scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
hector cervantes 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
All that work and LBJ is right at the Same table as Mike...
You people remind me of the Simpson's when that guy work so hard and had all the degrees and accolades and Homer was dumb as rocks but was a supervisor was making the big bucks and had a hot wife in Marge. That drove the man crazy and he died grimey!
When you lose to Dirk Nowiski when you had 2 hall of famer around you... You disqualified in the GOAT conversation
@SPACE•TIME FACTS!!
@SPACE•TIME you saying those first round exits are youre basis as to why MJ aint G.O.A.T? What about 6 trips to the finals and winning all 6... That dont matter? 😅
@SPACE•TIME Jordan averaged 28 ppg as a rookie and never missed the playoffs while playing for the bulls with NO other relevant player let alone an all star in the 80s so if losing to those Cletics and Boston teams in the first round is a crime then yall shouldnt give a pass to Lebron for losing to golden state when he had two other hof with him.Look idek why i get into debates with Lebron fanboys.
Chris Bosh is not a HOF
Kelsie Duncan the only reason people bring up the celtics for MJ is because people expected Bron to beat the warriors. There was no WAY that lebron would win. It was impossible. Gs warriors were just too stacked. Just like when MJ got swept by Larry birds celtcis TWICE in a ROW. Nobody knocked MJ for that because The celtics were too stacked.
So making more finals outweighs winning the most. That sounds stupid
rodneyford8 it doesn't just sound stupid, it is stupid. Its like saying that the greatest racer is the greatest not because he won more races but because he raced in more races. That ball goes up in the air in the beginning of every game to see who will be the champion at the end. You dont play for assists, rebounds, or points. They are simply a means to an end. The "end" being a title. 6 - 0 is not a fluke.
No, it's not when you are expected to lose; because you are playing with a pile turd for teammates. To a point though, '11 Heat vs Mavs was on Lebron. He did not showed up and frankly the Heat were the favorites. However in the GSW and Spurs series, you gotta give Lebron a break since he is against the odds.
Well he will have no rings if he didn't go to miami..fact
John he should’ve have beat the spurs
AJ Jamaal Racing is a solo sport, so is boxing, tennis, bowling, ping pong, whatever the fuck. Not basketball, not football, not hockey, not baseball, not soccer. This obsession with ring culture in team sports has made legendary players into the brunt of “No Ringz” jokes, ala Charles Barkley, Steve Nash (most likely Chris Paul tbh), who people seem to forget were amazing players but because they never won a ring they’re just kinda tossed to the side.
Like Lebron wasn’t robbed of DPotY at least once..
Adam Maclada thats because he preserves his energy for offense he has to carry his team every year thats how he continues to be dominant in his 15th year unlike jordan who burnt out dumb ass
Oleg P Facts!
Adam Maclada you have no idea what you’re talking about
Oleg P Twice
Like MJ wasn't robbed of DPOY at least once... Especially in 1987 and 1989.
Well said, Mike Greenberg. Facts, if you remain a hater it says more about you than it does about Lbj.
Kavin lebron averaged 17 points in a nba finals Jordan would never of choked like that plus Jordan quit for 2 years in his prime he would of won 8 in a row facts if lebron did that he might only have 1 chip
People don't bring up one important argument. Lebron is chasing Jordan, Jordan didn't chase Lebron or anyone, Lebron is playing based on Jordan's stats and accomplishments. If Jordan was playing right now, its so probable he would have better stats.
Bruno .Doinel that makes no sense it was his choice to quit and come back. There will never be a true way to see whos better as individuals lebron can do a lil more because of his size but jordan is the goat as of now
" LeBron went to the finals more than Jordan "
Yeah, he went to 3 more finals.
He also lost 6 of 9 apparences.
This isn't a participation contest.
You don't get credit for things you didn't win.
And how many ore seasons did Lebron play compared to Jordan?
I don't listen to the analysis anyway. If you ask the guys playing and past players, 90% of them say Jordan with no hesitation.......
idiot ur
@SPACE•TIME ‘It’s just God disguised as Michael Jordan" - Larry Bird
@SPACE•TIME GOD > GOAT
@SPACE•TIME don't forget Lebron has played more sessions than MJ (Due to the advancement of nutrition and treatment ),
Compare their stats in 15 sessions.
Before we move accomplishments
MORE FINALS losses means that Jordan had more playoff loses. If I go to the finals more than you that means you didn't make it. People say more finals loses like that is worse than not making it. So Jordan got put out of the play offs most of his career; Lebron got put out of the Finals most of his career. Which is better?
Jordan never jump ship like LeBron did
Jay Taylor In 11 complete seasons with the bulls he went to the finals 6 times and won....
I know, but what happen BEFORE the 6 finals. I think it should be the GOAT of each era, because they will never play each other. but people make it seem like Jordan came in his rookie year went to the finals 6 straight years and then retired
Jay Taylor no they don't dumb ass
micheal has been going to the playoffs from his first year with no help it took lebron 3 years, the first time jordan got 1 other good player he won 3 straight championships lebron lost so much he left to formnm a superteam and he still lost 2 out 4 with 3 other future hall of famers yall forget. and dont give me that bullshit about ,Micheal had a hof coach and scottie pippen because none of them came to him as those things they all became what they were with micheal.
Micheal was clutch in college.
Jalen Lebron walked into the NBA at 18 and was a top 25 player.
Micheal was always clutch? then why did mj get bounced in the first round so many times?
HE WAS PLAYING HALL OF FAME TEAMS, THAT'S LIKE SAYING WHY IS LEBRON GOING TO LOSE TO THE WARRIORS AGAIN?! LOL FOH. The Pistons, The Celtics were ALL TIME TEAMS. IT HAPPENS. BUT HE ULTIMATELY GOT HIS REVENGE BY MAKING THE PISTONS LEAVE THE GAME EARLY, AND HE BEAT MAGIC JOHNSON ON THE HIGHEST STAGE. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. MJ IS THE GOAT BUT WE NEED TO LET LEBRON DO HIS THING AS WELL.
ubadman1 This point is so lame. Look at the team's Jordan started out with. Those Celtics teams were among the beat ever. LeBron in his first three years with that Bulls team would have lost to them too. Bullshit argument for the haters. I don't knock LeBron for the loss to SA in 2007 or the loss to the Warriors when Kyrie was out. I think it is shameful that he had the best team in the league for four years in Miami and only won twice with an epic personal collapse in 2011. MJ had bad games but he was always mentally engaged. LeBron has checked out numerous times. The GOAT doesn't do that.
Celtics 3X champions in that 80's era, had 3 HOFers bird, McHale, Parrish and the Bad Boyz Thomas, Dumars, Rodman, Aguirre, Johnson, Mahorn , Lambier 3 HOFers 2 titles *there's your reason and ur
because he had no help dumb ass. what does clutch have to do with being beat by great teams in the 1st rd? if lebron so great why he choke 5 finals? same question dumb ass
He got bounced from the first round averaging 40+. Lebron got bounced in the finals averaging 22 on 35%. There’s the difference.
MJ vs LeBron
This is a silly debate. Clearly Michael is better. It's not even a close one. But let's go to the facts. Updated after Lebrons 14th season. Michael Jordan has
•3 more rings
•3 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer lol.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more help
•Jordan never had a teammate averaged more than 22 points in the finals..
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
All of this accomplished in 13 seasons
Lebron was in his 14th season still chasing the "ghost that played in Chicago"
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn't even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 STRAIGHT scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
LBJ missed the playoffs completely in his first 2 years. Jordan didnt with scrubs on his squad. Jordan played 82 games 9 times in his career once at 40. LBJ only played 82 games once. In 89 Jordan won the scoring title all star MVP slam dunk title regular season MVP and Defensive Player of The year something LBJ has never done. Jordan also averaged 41 pts a game for an entire Finals shootimg 50% and won. Something else LBJ never did.
All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career.
Genetic Freak so you mean to tell me if Jordan was to go up against the warriors as of now , he would still be 6-0 in the finals ? Jordan would loose atleast 4/6 times against the warriors and I’m being nice lol they would out shoot them , the switches and plays designed now would leave them confused , defenses now are far more superior which is why nobody runs that outdated triangle offense no more , and bigs are able to handle the ball and shoot it like guards , not only will they paint be completely open , but they would have to deal with things they never seem such ass a 7 foot small forward who can handle the rock like he is 6”6 Durant , a guy who can give you 60 in two quarters and a baby faced sniper who can hit from anywhere on the court not to mention a big man who was just averaging 25 and 15 and also a defensive player of the year ... Jordan’s bulls would look like they have a extra chromosome don’t get me wrong
Jordan would get his points etc but , there is no way in hell he will have a positive record in the finals ! And I’m a Miami Heat fan !
@@jeremejones8651 , True, todays' basketball is very different than when MJ played, so I'm not sure how well the "back in the day" Bulls would have performed against todays' Warriors. However, imho two things: 1. I don't believe the Warriors would be nearly as effective if they had played back when MJ was in his prime (more physical, slower paced, ect...) 2. Even playing in todays' 3 point happy, lack of defense/softer league, there's no way the Bulls, and MJ get swept.
U can make same kind of list to lebron so ur stats are irrelevant
@@jeremejones8651 the only reason why Lebron made it to the finals was cuz the east has been ass for yrs....let's not forget LeBron also lost the Mavs (with 1 all star) and the Spurs (by record numbers)...and there's no reason to believe that the 2nd 3 peat Bulls team couldn't beat the Warriors...they won 72 games and the championship....that's better than the Warriors
@@hud1231 omg... Why do people always say the east is weak.... Literally lebron making the playoffs and finals in 2 different eras... He made the finals against the Celtics who literally beat a prime kobe, he even beat the same pistons juggernaut... And may i say the EAST HAS MORE RINGS THAN THE west...
1.Jordan
2.Kobe
3.LeBron
No hate but I play to win and that's the name of the game. Kobe and Jordan will win or die trying.
Jalen is right, they are so close in so many ways, and that's when you have to defer to Jordan.
LBJ wins in assists, rebounds per game, and is a much better passer. They had the same amount of blocks per game, but MJ was the first player in history to get 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season, as a SG. LBJ has a marginally better three point %, and MJ had a better free-throw percent. So, pretty even across the board, so then you go to MVPS, DPOY, Rings, and Finals MVPS, which Jordan has more of every one.
LBJ is beyond amazing, and is a clear #2 atm. Where he will end up, no one is sure, but to say he is better than Jordan already, simply isn't logical.
They're not pretty even at the board? You totally skipped points and field goal percentages.
bonkling Lebron should have won DPOY in 2013 and let's be honest, hes gotten robbed of a few mvps. 2015 they should have had that ring but his two co stars were hurt, 07 they shouldn't have even been in the finals, 2014 Wade and Bosh werent even in the series. Like all of lebrons career has been horribly unlucky, he got landed in Cleveland of all places. Every co star he has had, has either fallen off the face of the earth at some point (Bosh, wade, love) or in moments where hes needed that 2nd guy, they've been a no show (Kyrie, Wade) Lebron has never even had an elite coach, but Jordan was quite literally handed everything he couldve ever wanted in the NBA.
bonkling LeGoat been da goat fuh years
canucturbo2224 bruh invalid argument cuz Jordan would torch this league more.
bonkling no lebron if the better defender and got robbed at least once when he was on Miami also there 3 point isn’t even close as lebron has made and attempted twice as many as Jordan and Jordan 3 point percentages are boosted because he played when they moved there 3 point line closer and only time he was able to hit for over a 100+ 3s and did it only 2 times while lebron has went for over a 100 10 times and have a few season wit 90+ so no lebron’s 3 point shooting is on another level than Jordan’s
Why is this even a debate? MJ is obviously better. He is better before he won the rings, he is better after he won the rings, he is better at 33, hes a better defender, he's a better scorer, he's more clutch. MJ is basketball. These teenagers are living in the moment. Ppl dnt realize this, but the NBA changed cause they wanted someone like mike. No one could even be close to him with handchecking. The guy drank, smoked cigars, spent his time at golf course and was still the GOAT of a sport. Do even need to debate is MJ is better?
Michael Sanders maybe after the first 3 part. Thats the way with all super stars
right on the money
This comment was literally: "Obviously ill speak with shallow confidence and then Ill show you my third-grade level writing skills. Jordan is better and we all KNOW it"
Comments like these hurt the Jordan case
Jordan case is sealed by Jordan himself and the abundance of visual evidence through the miracle of video. A better player might come of course, and when he comes it will not be a debate, just like it wasnt one when MJ retired the FIRST TIME, already as the GOAT. Lebrun aint that player and in fact talk like this is offending to several other greats, like Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem etc who would have dominated the championships for 10 years straight had they been as lucky to play with so many extraordinarily favorable circumstances as Lebrun does.
/agree
MJ had only 3 buzzer beaters in the playoffs because he closed out the game from the 3rd qtr. so he didn't have to hit the buzzer beater like LeBron does. Don't you think that MJ would have hit more buzzer beaters if he hadn't been that GOOD at closing out games??? His killer Mamba mentality is 10x higher than LBJ
No disrespect to LBJ he's the 2nd greatest player ever but when it comes to clutch I'm taking MJ even at 55!!
Thats what happens when u play against truckers and alcoholistic:)
We gonna just forget mj went 4 at unc, won 3 retired came back n did it again
Jordan never faced anything like those San Antonio teams or these Warrior teams in the finals lol and that’s 4 of LeBrons finals losses
Nigga from Diary of a Mad Black Woman and lebron never played with two hall of famers or got bounced out of the first round
KINGVILLAOFDAE you trippin, that 97-98 team was only better than the mavs and thunder that Bron played. That’s the best team Jordan played lol
Nigga from Diary of a Mad Black Woman the jazz team he played swept the spurs so why are we discussing this
Actually, you just made a stupid point. That Utah team won 62 games. The Golden State team that Lebron beat won 73 games and he came back from a 3-1 deficit.
ST TRAY 500 with rookie Tim Duncan?
2013-2014 LeBron James had a better year then Jordan ever had in any year of his career
DLO BROWN this is the year they lost by a record margin in the finals ?
J Smooth 41 umm no this is the year he won MVP and repeated as champion... before u talk shit maybe do a little research
@@azaznogalesaz you may need to do a little research yourself.. James lost the 14' finals.
James HAD to go to Miami (or somewhere) and "learn" how to win at the highest level. Jordan played for D. Smith when he won in college and P. Jackson when he won in the NBA; 2 HOF coaches. When James came to the CAVs they became contenders without him ever having had any elite level coaching.
To go with it wen y'all make tht Shabby excuse for LBJ and Pointing it towards MJ look at Kareem who considers himself the Greatest bcse he Won in High School Won in College UCLA & Won in the NBA and played with a Legendary Coach as well why dnt these points come up wen calling Lebron the G.O.A.T or no the G.L.O.A.T tht is bcse to me he's the Greatest Loser of all time.
@@sroland3533 so losing before the finals is better than actually making it and having a chance to win? No credit for not gettin bounced early?.. oo yea i forgot mj played only 6 years
@@NBAKING149 the reason mostly not counting mj's playoffs exit is that he didnt had help in those years had to battle a 59win team or the dynasty celtics and even when pippen arrived pippen was doing 10-11ppg while jordan is doing 45ppg they still needed pippen to bloom , while on the other hand lebron had an easier path coz in hes era other than facing the kg rondo allen pierce celtics all the teams in the east were weak compare to west , and the west back in jordans era was weaker than the east, lebron manage to get 4 playoffs with the miami in the easy east and another 4 in the cavs and he had help all on those teams and when he didnt had help in the strong west when he jumped to LA coz pelicans declined the offer he never went to the playoffs yet jordan manage to get to the playoffs without help avg 37-45ppg everytime he carries the team
@@louuu3201 excuses LeBron won with less
@@kentonohio7614 lebron won more games with less ? when ? have you seen lebron with less help ? other than the 2007 cavs he wasnt able to do any
If MJ didn't go to college, didn't retire in 1994 and 1995( although played some games that year) and from 1999-2001 he would have had 40K points and this is not a joke.
wasnt good enough to make it to the nba right out of high school
makis papachristou if wishes were fishes the world would be a sea. Nice try man. And if LeBron won the first finals he lost, and the second and third and fourth he’d be 7-2 lmao
Buuuuuut he didn't and Lebron wil... further proving that Lebron is the goat with your own argument
Hahaha.. because he wasn't good to be drafted unlike LeBron and Kobe 😂😂😂
makis papachristou that’s a lot of “ifs”
Thank you Jalen Rose for keeping it real
Yun lol Mike says lebron can guard the 1. He can guard the ones now, he couldn't guards ones in the 90s. Shaq would average 40 on 60% if you put lebron on him
@@SkySkywalker485 you acting like the ones in 90s were better than the guards now 😂😂 bron gotta guard ppl like curry , Kyrie, dame
@@SkySkywalker485 LeBron james can guard all 5 positions & let's not act like those 90s players were the ish & better than the ones in this era. They're faster,stronger & more skilled.
Jalen Rose is off base here ... Greeney is correct and Beadle makes the most sense ...
AweSum PowerZ How is he off base? Explain
Jalen rose was right jordan more superior than lebron I need help james.
William Marc Boquiren Jordan had Pippen, or have you forgotten about that!
There is no one who has ever played basketball better than LeBron James.
Everybody forgets that Jordan didn't just come into the league winning championships he had to learn how to win in the NBA just like LeBron. Jordans advantage was that he went to college and had a lil more time to develop his game, LeBron was thrown to the wolves day one and is still on top of the NBA since he entered the league.
BIG Facts.
Jordan didn’t crawl to Miami begging for something you can learn naturally. It’s documented!!!!
Stop The Hate Lebron Never Had Scootie To play Off The Defence and Pass The Rock
He had Dwade and Kyrie, are we just ignoring that? lol
Mackie SoLoud what, are you that fucking stupid he went to Miami and has Dwayne wade and bosh what the fuck you talking about
What was Wade? Battier lol? Still couldn’t muster only 2 rings lol
Ur rite no Pippen, but he had Varejo, Ilgaskus, Shaq, Wally Zyerbiayak , Mo Williams, then Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen ,Mike Miller , Chalmers, Birdman, Cole, Shane Battier, Rashard Lewis, then Love, Irving, Korver, Jr Smith, Shumpert, Mike Miller again, again, but i guess he NEVER has any help poor LBJ👑👑👑👑👑 🤣😆😃😏
A K yup, Lebron should’ve won 4 or 5 in Miami.
Jordan has the most missed game winning shots of all time. He’s made 3 , but missed 25 🤔 but he’s “always been clutch
“
le'sossa james
Where the hell did you get that stat from??? 🤔
le'sossa james we making up shit now
le'sossa james your dumb because he is 5 for 11 in game winning shots... do your research
ST TRAY 500 he’s missed 25 do your research
le'sossa james Back in the days you had to battle to get free from defenders. The energy to free yourself from shovers and grabbers made more difficult to make your shot. And there were no walking blocks like in today's game from your pal to ease your shot. In a playoff game you wouldn't see a guy with the basketball running full court and releasing with no opposition in sight a shot to win the game. You would see that in the trainning gym not in the official game. That's how the game is played today because you will be punished if you put a finger in the offensive player. In yesterday's game the rules protected the Defense nowdays the rules protect in excess the offensive player and that inflatuets the players stats and makes them look better than they actually are
Do people remember when MJ retired and the bulls still won almost 60 game’s
You know Lebron Is the GOAT when he is compared to JORDAN before he even retired.
You know LeBron is NOT the Goat when he calls himself that out of insecurity.
Lebron and Mj top 2 ever.
Kd not even top 20 facts.
fax
LeBron can't be a top 2 player when there are 100 players that have more rings than him, some of which that wouldn't be considered better than LeBron. If MJ was LeBron, he'd have 8 rings
Mozz we just gonna disrespect Kareem Abdul jabaar like that ?
watch who wins finals MVP. Durant> Lebron
I got KD in my top 15 just off pure skill
Jordan is the 🐐
we all know that
Darius Goodwin Jordan has understably good teammates unlike LeBron!! These commentators don't mention it.it is because it will harm the team.
peacemaker Lebron has had great teammates jus hasn't had as great results DWade
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen
Kyrie
K Love
Darius Goodwin hands down
+Adam Maclada Yes and surprisingly no one says that in their argument. Lebron has a better supporting cast and they still get beaten.
When Jordan left the Bulls they lost only 2 more games the following year, still made the playoffs. When LeBron left the Cavs they immediately became the worst team in the league. You can not compare championship rings to decide this.
Patrick Crowe UPDATE - Lebron has went to the Lakers and the Cavs again are the worse team in the NBA... The only lost Lebron and went from finals to worse team
Patrick Crowe when lebron left the heat, where were they?
The reason bulls still was successful is because they only lost Jordan they added pieces and they still had their coach in a great system. Teams LBJ plays on is the LBJ system and players has come out and said that. LBJ has yet to play in a real system he has his own system. Dominate the ball kick out to a shooter so when he leaves of course teams are gonna struggle cuz it was all about him
Willie Bender send me a link or a video where any player said lebron controls the system, please
@@hoodfellah
If you watched LeBron, you should know this. This doesn't need any confirmation. Lol
No one born before the mid 90s can tolerate a comparison to MJ. He cannot be outdone and no logic can overcome this. For everyone else, maybe there's a chance to convince them but still, he is Michael the iconic Jumpman, number one shoe brand, tongue wagging on the insane hang-time, dunk on your center and steal from your point-guard, never questioned clutch shooter Jordan. Stats don't measure that.
so... nostalgia?
Yall need to stop bro mj is the greatest yo
No he's not bill Russell is. Get your facts straight
Jalen Rose loses credibility by the day with his one-trick pony responses to this debate. Open your eyes big guy - Lebron James is the best ALL-AROUND basketball to ever play the game.
Jalen speaking facts
How in Zeus' fucking asshole is he a better all around player? Cant play off ball, cant catch and shoot, cant post up, cant chase his assignment on defesnse for more than 4-5 straight possessions, cant box out properly (most of his rebounds are uncontested), cant score as much if not surrounded by shooters and spread bigs, still cant shoot free throws. Fucking Magic Johnson at 21, was called upon to play in Kareems' place, out of all people, in the Finals and went berzerk. Lebron 15 years in the league, still cant play up post. I can name like 20 players that had better games all around.
J K and he still had to run to Miami to get help.
Dude Stop it!!! You can’t name one thing that LBJ can do that MJ couldn’t!!! Just Stop!!! We have seen this before.... Minus the finals Losses!!!
he is losing credibility because he doesn't agree with you lebron delusional fans. Goddamn you are delusional.
Who cares, the both of them was/is Awesome to witness!
LBJ, right now, is just dominating the game. Period!
Everybody knows that Jalen Rose is biased when it comes to the argument of who's the goat
We should really stop putting Lebron and MJ in the same sentence it so disrespectful to Lebron.
You mean it's disrespectful to Jordan, ya dumb fuck
FP deadass ^
Tell him take off mj number
Designz R Us it's lebron's number now
Shan Sonthra he wearing the number because of mj so how the hell its his number. 23 a brand and its forver mj . Like Mj said years ago, everyone wana be like mike lmao
This is LeBron's era, he's the greatest in his era, same with Jordan/Kobe/Bird/Russell every great player has an era in which they dominated and won championships.
Respect for that comment and Kingdom Hearts fam
How come people on these show always bring up the stats of Lebron passing Michael jordan but never bring up the amount of games played it took lebron vs Jordan.... not even close
Greenberg said Jordan is not better than Bron!!...lol...here are the stats that he conveniently forgot to mention:
MJ - 1) 10x Scoring champ
2) 3x Steals champ
3) 9x All-Defensive
4) 5x MVP; 6x Finals MVP
5) 83% FT
6) Played in all 82 games 9 times in his career...won Scoring champ & DPOY in the SAME season...only 2 guard to rank in top 5 all-time, in BOTH steals and blocks...Bron has played almost 20 years and hasn't done ANY ONE of those!...so who you think you fooling Greeny??🤔🤔🤣😁😂✌
He is the greatest stat stuffer ever, no one will ever argue that point. Peyton Manning stuffed the stats too, not the goat. Still taking MJ.
Rich LeClaire Peyton Manning throwing over 500 hundred touchdowns is stat padding ? I thought that was the point of the game was to score as many points as possible !! I thought quarterbacks were supposed pass the ball the best they can 😂😂
Let me guess Floyd Mayweather was a stat padder 😂😂
ok but he choked 1 big time, Peyton choked a lot, Lebron loses when he did all he can
Man people the goat is right in front of you stop closing your hearts to Lebron and appreciate what he is doing there will never be another lebron might be another mj (scorer) but not another lebron no way.
David Valles let's debate why u think lbj is goat
I hate it when people say that lebron can guard centers and jordan can’t. Centers in Jordan’s era are like 7’0 footers or taller! Lebrons era have midget centers, 6’9 to 6’10!
1. Mj
2. Lebron
If u have any other list ur a hater Lebron is better than everyone not named Michael Jeffrey Jordan
Jalen said MJ won the dunk contest. What the f does that have to do with anything. As if lebron wouldn’t win one if he ever cared to participate in one. That was a stretch J
Ameere Duff I get that lol. But winning the dunk contest shouldn’t be included in the same sentence as winning a championship or MVP, it just doesn’t make sense to include it lol. That’s just not important enough.
Seems to me Lebron great at winning playoff games, but cannot seem to win the rings needed to be the real GOAT. What does it matter you keep going to the prom and never is crowned King?
It is great to go to the dance every year. But if you are not winning the crown. That just makes you a great dancer. That means someone else won. Lebron is the greatest talent of this era. Without debate. But how many times do you have to lose to put an asterisk by Lebron name at the end of his career. Greatness is not judge by how long you played in the league and the numbers. you piled up in the books. But how many times you got the crown. From my era MJ is 6-0 with 6 MVP's. Now they are 2 different player. But Michael has had the greatest impact on the game of any generations. And still today 30 years later has the number one selling shoes in basketball and worldwide. It not about stat stuffing, but if you keep going to the dance and people are calling you the King. Why does he not leave with the crown every time?
Because it's a team game? I believe MJ is the goat but i think people have been for far too long mystified by MJs 6-0 run. He lost in the first round 7 times while Lebron went to the finals at age 22 (his 4th season). Does that mean MJ is weak? No. That may mean he wasn't good enough yet but that can also mean he has faced all time great teams (Boston, Pistons etc). That is what has happened to lebron. He faced dynasties in the Spurs and Warriors. The only loss that he "shouldve" really won was the dallas series but he was faced with a top 4 PF of all time and Dwade/CB was hurt a lot that year.
rommelgoodie if he faced dynasties like spurs and cant win against them then shouldnt we rank Duncan > Lebron. Duncan is 2-1 against lebron. 5 rings. Before we talk about lebron vs MJ, he is not even higher than duncan imo.
James was a fav against dallas and lost? Why is jordan nv an underdog because he is way too good that he makes opposition look weak and hence people say he played against weak players.
Jalen Rose just embarrassed the shit out of this guy
Yeah that scoring list is with M.J leaving 3 years on the table
5 yrs missed 3 in college. 2 after his Dad died. LeBron would have no chance
Lebron is the G.O.A.T
youse a smart man.
Aamir Choudhry Jordan is the goat he is far more clutch and a far better defender. Not to mention also being a better scorer and lastly winning more with much much less
you must be like 16 years old Kobe Bryant is a better player than LeBron
Phanuel Laurent #😂😂😂😂NO
Phanuel Laurent FOAT
Lebron is all time great and is the greatest we have seen since MJ. I can't see another player or human being like Lebron coming up in the NBA league especially when so many young people want shoot the ball all time and not be all around players. That being said Jaylen is speaking facts about MJ by taking stats and everything into context.
Y'all forget mj got an mvp at 34
#FACTS
Max del Castillo he’s about to get one at 35 lol
He said Lebron can guard bigs. Man Lebron couldn’t even guard Jason Terry.
JALEN ROSE SPEAKING FACTS
Gamer/Tech Vidz
Which part of the video ?
Gamer/Tech Vidz What? hahaha
As usual
Lemme guess you a old head
He is a hater just like Molly
Precisely MJ, never guarded bigs, never. Jalen, way off. Mike, brings up a full argument. Truth be told, the argument gets old. If you bring up Mike's first years, that doesn't count. If you bring up when Mike lost to Orlando, that doesn't count. If you bring up Mike getting lit up by a 19 years old named Kobe, at Kobe's first all-star game where he is leading scorer going into the 3rd quarter, so they sit him the whole fourth quarter and give MVP to Mike, that doesn't count. Lastly, if you bring up Mike last run when he balled with Wizards, drops over 40 in Garden and everybody, Mike still has it. Ok later that same year Kobe drops 55 on Mike, well Mike was an old man. Last I checked wine gets better with age. Lebron in year 15, putting up crazy numbers. Mike, same time frame declining. Forget the fact that Mike sat out 2 years to try and play baseball. His first 2 years he missed 69 games because of injury. Then when he started winning championships in an effort to help Mike, referees had the Jordan rule, if you got to close to him a foul was called. Lebron has been getting hammered for 15 years durable, taking much punishment. Prior to Mike, they were saying that Wilt Chamberlin, was the G.O.A.T. He only had 2-3 titles, yet Russell went 11 chips out of 12 tries. But with Mike, well he is 6-6. Ok the G.O.A.T. is not a permanent title it changes and I have been around long enough to see Wilt ball and now this current era. IMHO to this point LBJ is new G.O.A.T. Mike never carried those bad teams he started career with, they got nowhere. Mike did well, with Scotty and with a HOF coach, he had two Dean Smith in college and Phil Jackson. Under other coaches, Mike was just a great basketball player, but not a leader. When he went back to play, balling with the Wizards, he was trying to lead the young guys, they told him to go to hell, they refused to follow him. Christian Laettner was a stud at Duke, balling with Mike as his teammate with Wizards, brought nothing out of him. Scotty was the real leader of Bulls, hell two games ago Lebron broke Scottie's, not Mike's but Scotties' record for most steals in playoffs all-time. This is just my observation of this game over last 50 years, as both a former player UK 82-83 and lifetime fan.
Floyd Potts yo i read your whole post, 👏👏thank you broo!
but hey... MJ still better...😂😂😂
Floyd Potts...yeah. Bring up Lebrons 8 point game in the 2011 finals and we only hear crickets.
You do realize that those 8 points are included in the over 30,000 points he has right now?
You do realize LBJ, just passed Scotty Pippen as all-time leader in playoff steals?
LeBron had couple of game winners in his young days in Cleveland 😂
Yeah game winners in the playoffs against the Wizards 👍👍👍
LeBron is bigger, stronger, faster, a much better passer and rebounder, a more efficient scorer, a better teammate, and a more versatile defender... but I guess we will never know who was the better player...
ONLY STATS NOTHING ELSE
Jordan had 1,5 year for resting bones and smoke cigar James not
Jordan nad best coach,best system,best organization James not
Jordan never won something without Phil Jackson,Triangle system,Pippen James did
Jordan never came back to Charlotte Hornets to give them Ring James did that in Cleveland
Jordan never faced better team than Bulls in Finals James faced twice and won
Jordan was defended in his best clutch moments vs Utah by..Bryon Russell James by Durant or Kawshi
Jordan religion was pump up by milions dollars in media and by NBA owners James face till this day opposite way and still deliver
Jordan never had all possible skills on highest level James have
Jordan was in system James is The System
Turbo Roman mj never lost to a team as bad as Mavs. Mj never left the bulls to team up with other all Stars to win championship and still lost 2. Mj never ran from that very said team to join his first team because the was getting another all star player.
No cos Bulls organization havnt any opposition in NBA through 10 years hahah ty to bring that. MJ was in Super Team idiot . Jordan cried about Phil Jackson and Pippen and ran for retiring cos knew he would be expose,never had courage to carry team to Finals. James did it many times over
I totally agree with Greeny. LeBron is not better than MJ, but MJ is not better than LeBron. Jalen talks like MJ came in the league a complete player, which is not the case. In MJs apex, he did a lot, but he had not even sniffed a finals yet. MJ was most certainly not a better defender. MJ is the best scorer I've ever seen. However, LeBron is a better rebounder and passer. Doesn't that count for anything? And yes MJ never lost a finals, he does have that. But championships are not won by individuals, they're won by teams. Those 90s Bulls teams were so much better (players and most importantly, coach) than any team Bron has had. MJ also never had to face this Warriors Mega team.
MJ wasn't a better defender are you high?! He won Defensive Player and Led the league in scoring int he same year. AS well as led the league in steals. Lebron was NEVER a lockdown defender. He was always a great off the ball help defender but that's it. PERIOD.
James Harden is leading the league in scoring . So What ? Silly argument. Jordan is a guard and a scorer. Him scoring more points than LeBron is just normal. LeBron could average 30+ points per game if he wanted to. But that’s not his game. He has way more responsibilities on the court than Jordan.
People forget that Hakeem did teach lebron. Its in youtube. So if he says MJ is better, i value his word more.
Weirdly enough I think I was put off by Lebron when he never wanted to compete in the dunk contest. Told me about his competitive nature. Jordan wanted to compete and be the best at everything.
Victor Contreras facts
Lmao u cant be serious, Nate Robinson won the dunk contest does that make him a fierce competitor? I agree that mj is the goat but people like u bring up the dumbest reason to why he is lol who gives af about a dunk contest.
KoachKrab127 I understand that but to question lebrons competitive nature for not participating in it is crazy to me lol .
If lebron isnt competitive i dont know who is...