CATL reveal new batteries for Tesla EVs that will KILL the competition
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2023
- CATL reveal new batteries for Tesla EVs that will KILL the competition
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The news actually starts at 8:45. You’re welcome.
It is fascinating that people talk 18 minutes while there is 30 seconds of content there…
@@saeedboroomand830 and yet, you watched this video about it, rather than reading the article
@@saeedboroomand830 Set to high speed ....
@@rationalmaximiser2 well it was the misleading title that tricked me to see maybe there is new content here. We do lack a good legit news and analysis channel in youtube on the subject.
And even from then on it has like 8 minutes of filler
That’s the third “game over” battery mentioned this week 😂
It'll happen
Aye but it's a claim made by CATL , it's comming to market.
I don’t care how effective they are just how they burn and explode
I can tell you haven’t been watching Sam for a long time.
Thats because tech like battries just keep on improving and getting better everyday so it all make sense to see the words "game over" everyday.
This is exactly why I am waiting to buy my first full electric car, prices keep dropping while the vehicles keep getting better. ❤❤
Logical and true, but beware. A friend in the 1990s told me computers were getting better and cheaper. If I delayed a few years I could get a computer that was twice as fast at half the price, but I would lose a few years of having the use of a computer. I think the same is true of EVs although I too am delaying getting one. (But I am not delaying investing in Tesla stock!)
@@MrEd2291👍
@@MrEd2291 The difference is, you had no alternative to a new computer in the 90s. Today you can simply drive your ICE car longer. It will bring you from A to B not worse than an electric one. Things will change when e-cars are half the price and double the range. Then there is no more reason for holding back.
@C4H6As what if they're going to halve in price again.... and again.... and.. 😂
But you are still no helping climate change by driving thatICE vehicles.@@C4H6As
Don’t tell me, this changes everything (again!)
For now!
What if I told you it doesn't? Would you believe me? Of course not
Not game over just competition CATL not the only one trying to invent great batteries. CATL just improved their chemistrie so will others😁😁
CATL won't rest on their laurels. They'll still keep innovating.
@@jctai100innovating? The Chinese? Thought only the west can do that!😮😂
@@lindenlee3705In the battery field, Yes.
keep underestimating them then@@lindenlee3705
3:57 Something i found out, right now: CATL’s new Shenxing battery will be first used by Chinese brand Avatr, which is a joint venture between CATL, Changan and Huawei.
I heard LFP batteries from you first. Must be well over a year ago because we installed LFP batteries for our home solar system last August.
I couldn’t be more pleased.
Sam is making sure that everyone knows he's Aussie. His definition of cold is when the temperature reaches zero degrees celsius! If we ever get a zero degree day in February, we go out in shorts and t-shirts and celebrate! When normal winter temperature is -20 degrees, zero is warm. Would genuinely like to know how these batteries perform in actual cold weather.
rebim • 😂 👍
Just ask the norwegians how they're doing with their electric cars bought massively.
If you live in -20° weather don't buy an electric car yet if you're financially stranded.
However, new battery technology is coming in max 3-4 years with solid electrolyte that will completely solve the cold weather situation, faster charging, longer range, less weight, etc.
Precisely, people in Minnesota, Alberta, Saskatchewan, North Dakota, Michigan, northern Ontario, Quebec, northern Sweden, Finland, Norway are all thinking “minus 10 Celsius?”, it would be nice for it to be so warm in January and February. Russia too but I would imagine there’s not more than 1000 EVs in all of Russia.
CCP Viking was confused by norther lattitude Sweden's need for nuclear power
Here in Aussie, cold is anything under 10 deg C 😂
@@tomesplin4130 Greetings from Cairns....sorry, anything under 25 deg C. 😆
When companies give these charging times, they never mention what speed charger it requires to get that charge. Most roadside chargers are 50/100 on the label and often 30/40 in real world conditions. The batteries can be as great as they want but if the charging network is decidedly under par...then it means nothing!
You mean roadside chargers that don't say Tesla on the side. With so many car companies switching to Tesla NACS connectors the non-Tesla companies will have to up their game to compete. The CHADEMO connectors can't manage much more than 30-40 kW but the Electrify Canada CCS connectors can deliver over 100 kW. These comments are experience based using a CHADEMO to Tesla adaptor (Model S100D) and a CCS to Tesla adaptor (Model Y).
Chinese companies make all kinds of claims but Quantumscape is the only one publishing their results
TRUE and this is a SERIOUS issue but the Musk fan club is too ignorant to understand that ! They are BELIEVERS, not engineers !
Thank you.
@@rogerkeay1902non tesla CCS charger are very often higher in speed.
Tesla super charger are usually 250 when competition is already at 350kw
These batteries sound really good, let's hope they can deliver what they promised. Concerning the "game over" statement for other manufacturers you have to keep in mind that worldwide demand for batteries and energy storage in general is so gigantic that no single company can supply all of it. Even if they have the best batteries and the best prices, they can only produce a limited amount per year and that will never be enough.
Not to mention, Where's all the additional Lithium coming from? And Copper... Recycle you say? You can't recycle something that's not been built yet.
I used to be into RC cars 15+ years ago. Yeah I used to be crazy with the stuff I did but you had to be careful with the batteries no matter what. What's shocked me with cars is the shocking lack of safety they put in. Was looking at prius and they haven't even used balance charging which is why they have so much problems. Then theres the maintenance on EV where it's not very easy to gain access. Basically a EV to me is like a mobile phones, designed for a short life and thrown away.
@@rob-123 A battery pack in an EV cannot be compared to a battery in a Smartphone, because it's designed to have a long lifespan. The early Priuses were not very good at that and their battery was too small, because they are hybrids, not real EVs. A real EV has a big battery pack that is well protected, climatised and has a battery management system that saves it from being charged too fast or overcharged etc.
@@colinmacdonald5732 Well John Cadogan paints a picture that indicates these batteries are only good for landfill.
If what you're saying is true, then there's gonna be a massive *CATL call* as EV mfgrs clamor for their products. Great video, Sam Evans.
500Wh/kg is game changing. That’s awesome. Electric flight here we go.
Airplanes and the such will still need higher power dens batteries ... talking in the order of 2k+ so it will be a while before they take over there - but maybe for shorter flights and aircraft (1-4 ppl) + maybe some sort of hybrid designs.
And keep in mind that in only 2021, "2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD With 82 kWh Battery: Charging Analysis
Taking into consideration the WLTP range of 614 km (382 miles) and available battery capacity of 76.5 kWh, we can assume energy consumption of 125 Wh/km (200 Wh/mile)." and had a battery density of 260 Wh/kg which meant a battery weight of about 290 kg or (640 Pounds.)
So now the same weight battery doubles the range. Or lower the weight to 90kg to 200kg and still have 30% farther range.
More like 6.000 Wh/kg for long range flights of 16 hrs.
e-Bikes could use these.
Batteries won't lose their weight while flight and discharging which results in a much bigger problem: The plane can't land with it's takeoff weight.
Massive difference between your title, intro and actual content
Incremental battery improvements, this is a tried and standard practice with most technologys, squeezing more out of what you have while the price gets better and the reliabailitygets better. Good spot Sam
A thing called physics has something to tell us about how far those improvements can ultimately go. A thing called the mining industry is telling us the price of EV’s will rise steeply due to a big lack of the amount of mineral inputs going big on EV’s will mean
@@georgebeare8883 ...Naw... the mining companies have more lithium to mine than you can shake a stick at, Lithium is one of the most abundant minerals on earth, in fact it has come down from from $60,000 a ton (pure grade) to $20,000 in just the last year... and will get cheaper as the mines come on stream and unlike an ICE engine, you can recycle and refine Lithium and reuse in a new battery or even in a lower requirement battery as it is, straight out of the car.
>> Incremental battery improvements, ....
@@tooltalk To the user comes the spoils... Samsung better get their finger out and start licensing the technology if they can't or wont build factorys to make the batterys with that technology LOL
@@hawklord100: you are missing the point. CATL's announcement is really nothing burger, nowhere as groundbreaking. They are still behind BYD in LFP and they are behind LG, SKI in NCM. All they got is access to the massive Chinese market and the gov't protection from daddy Xi.
I look forward to battery improvements but am reminded that the 4680 batteries made promises that they don’t seem to be delivering on.
You need to have patience. New battery technology doesnt happen overnight. 4680 is a battery format and is not the issue. The production of the Dry Battery Electrode is the issue.
@@danielcpt3819 4680 is just a packaging size. Nothing more. Nothing to see here. I am not a fan of glued together Tesla 4680 battery packs that cannot be repaired if there is only one faulty cell. And the reliabilty of 'tabless' design will see greater failures. Such a waste of resources.
I fail to see what the 4680 fanboys rave about.
MAYBE THEY SHOULD TRY A SODIUM CHEMISTRY IN THEM.
TH-cam is practically a monopoly.
Microsoft
Facebook
Twitter
Boeing / Airbus
These r all monopoly or almost monopoly.
CATL can sell these batteries to anybody. Not just to *Tesla.*
He doesn't want to hear the truth
Not if they've already signed a contract for first dibs.
@@ahaveland And CCP ALWAYS honors it's contracts. Riiiiiight.
@@kimweaver1252 Easy to say, but can you cite any examples where contracts haven't been honored?
Yes, Ford is planning to build a CATL battery plant in Michigan next year.
8:00 I live in Queensland Australia we get summer 11.5 months of the year every year lol no Cold weather here.
I livein Sweden and this winter it was -15C one night and my gas car didn't start 😂
@@Myrslokstok sucks to live in that country in Queensland Australia the coldest you get is +15 C degrees lol.
@@pkerry12
It was probably cooler at is cooldest, but with a bad battery, it is not fun to have an important meeting in the morning, realizing that you probably shoud have taking the hazzel to store the 🔋 inside over night. But I actually live in the warm parts of Sweden in the cooler parts it could probably be -30C, and every 10 degre is kind of a new level of pain.
We had a foreign student from Australia who was kind of suffering at +5C or something fun it was like the mildest winter ever, and he was constantly upset about the freezing wether, he was probably joking some, but it was fun.
@@Myrslokstok yeah to us in the state of Queensland it’s tropical wearh most of the year so anything below 20C is colde and anything below 15 is considered freezing. 25C is just right weather for us
@@pkerry12 At least in sweden not everything is trying to kill you. In your country, even the nettles hurt so bad it makes people kill themselves.
Sam, spot on! game over! CATL, the King.
Hopefully, the other battery mfrs on this side of the Pacific will be able to replicate CATL's success sooner rather than later, as relations with China are always subject to international politics; which could lead to serious supply disruptions.
Viking - did you notice VW outsell Tesla in Europe last month?
Ha Ha outsell Tesla cars.M8 ice cars dont count
Keep up mate ICE cars don't count 😂
And your point is?
@@RichardTrainorhe is correct. The VW Group outsold Tesla on pure EVs in 2022 and probably did last month. Whether they are making a profit or loss on those EVs is anybody’s guess. The other thing to realise is that VW is almost 90 years old and has about 100 factories worldwide. They were the worlds largest automaker in I believe 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. Tesla is a baby in comparison and literally supplies Europe from the Shanghai factory and from the factory ramping in Berlin. So comparing VW to Tesla based on pure EV sales in Europe for any length of time let alone a single month is childish
@@robertfonovic3551 Tha man is talking apple's v's orange's , why would anybody compare Tesla's EV sales to ICE sales? It doesn't make sense.
This sounds great….. only time will tell. I am already a great fan of LFP, so significantly improving energy density AND charge speed is terrific news.
Of course -Nokia- sorry, I mean Toyota will have solid state batteries soon right? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Toyota as a battery with a million km range per charge, doesn't it? :)
Toyota battery will be ready overnight 🎉
You may be right, but I wasn't about to wait forever to get the dream Electric vehicle. So, when these come out in 2024, then what new will come out in 2025,2026,etc.etc. There will always something better/new improved coming down the road.
Well, enough is enough for me. I now have the 2023 model Y long range vehicle for my daily driving. It does everything I need and more and really enjoy the vehicle. It also has HW4 and the newer latest cameras. I don't have FSD or EAP, and not sure if I will ever buy them. Plus I should be able to get the $7,500 tax credit.
I don't do long trips or high speed driving and it is not an environmental decision. I bought the vehicle to get away from the gas pumps. This should be my car for many years.
Thanks for your video information and take care.
Sam ,you should present what is battery news without promoting the product 👍👍👍
Yes, you were correct. Great work
The MP3 cells are better for LFP type solutions with the temperature disadvantages, but Amprius silicon anode battery looks more interesting. Safe as LFP, charges quicker, and a very large temperature range. Being shipped now, scaling up in Colorado, not like solid-state.
BYD were making MP3 batteries in 2014
Toyota better get into E.V. Game with these Batteries or it will be Game Over for them
I have questions.. won't these also be in the new model 3'? If so when - when they are available for the model Y? It uses lithium right so why not call it LM3P to help differentiate from the Sodium batteries that will be used in power storage? (SM3P)?
But what does it mean to the 4680 huge volume plans? Will enable lots of semis and Cybers, but what else? CATL still needs to make a move to the US and I no longer hear of the licensing deal for Tesla to make CATL products
Ford is trying to partner with CATL as well. They are trying to make a battery factory in Michigan.
And here I always thought Tesla made its own batteries.
They can't
Not yet!😊
Please, it is a good thing because it will drive the price down and eliminate waste in the industry.
In 2023, with the dizzying rate of technological improvements, buying an EV still qualifies someone as an early adopter. Hopefully by 2030 the technology will be established and standardised enough so that more cautious potential customers will be able to benefit from lower prices resulting from the eventual economies of scale in the industry
Meanwhile, your missing out on great technology, maybe more expensive vehicle, however Cheap to operate, recuperating your initial outlay of cash.
@@rozonoemi9374 Not necessarily. It depends how far you drive. In most smaller countries where the average mileage is 6000 miles or so a year it makes no sense because most people buy on a 3 or 4 year lease, and there's no chance they will recoup the extra outlay in fuel savings.
Price of EV has come down significantly so it does make sense. Also, no need to replace a vehicle after 4 years, when you can easily double the use of EV. I'm already 6 years into my M3 & still going strong!@@severnsea
They say Net Zero carbon by 2030. I don't think that is doable but nobody cares.
What do you think of the Polestar?
All its specs are less than the model Y. Range, power, etc. Except the price.
@@harmony3138 you say boring. I say well engineered. Teslas interior is designed to be cleaned easily. Other cars are a prick to wipe down. Teslas a breeze...
Again the Model Y outpetforms the pilestar everywhere it counts .
Dont listen to the hater crowd.
Polestar reminds me of the Datsun 180b from the 1970s.😊
👍🔥❤️
There is no doubt that these batteries are going to affect the market, but I don't see that it means that Tesla is going to dominate.
As you say, CATL are the largest manufacturer, so they manufacture for many other EV makers.
CATL themselves have already said that the Condensed battery is going to be cheaper than current LI batteries, so I see no reason why BEV makers will not want these batteries.
I can see that there will be effectively 3 ranges (maybe 4) of batteries for EVs
1 The cheapest will feature sodium batteries
2 Next up will be 4CLFP batteries
3 After that you'll have the Condensed batteries
Yet even the Condensed battery is, according to CATL, going to be cheaper than current Li batteries!
And seeing as current batteries are the single most expensive part of an EV, this should be good for all buyers.
Coming on to the problems related to CATL monopolising the battery market; there have been plenty of instances of companies gaining a monopolistic position in a market. The problem is never the market or the monopoly. That is easily solved. The historic problem with monopolies has been that governments, especially in the uSA, have been very reluctant to control/legislate against them. The Chinese government is aware of the problem. That means that they are likely to do something about it sooner rather than later. That is all that can really be expected. If it was my decision, I'd be looking at making many "Baby" CATLs, with the various companies having some of the tech, others with other tech, but none of them having exclusive control of any one area of technology. As I said earlier, legislating against a monopolistic corporation isn't the problem, the problem is the recognition that it is necessary.
The Chinese government is likely to be reluctant to hold back CATL too much though. Their a national champion. Then again, so is BYD
4:07 You can compete, by simple buy the cells :) Which some will do :)
Affordable used Jeep EV conversion might be nice for winter driving
The 10 minute charge rate at 250 miles at 80 percent is where you want to be . 10 minute charging is the sweetspot . Still think we need to get to a density to get to 450 miles to be game over . Still not quite 350 with rhis upgrade but still a very nice improvement . So we are looking at a 100 miles more of range and then game over . Still need ev competition in north america to bring down prices . We still only have one company and they are killing any competition and its not close
Tks for sharing on this. Its useful to know that as the range gets longer, there will be less need to charge out on the road.
What’s happened to the biggest battery revolution ever the 4680 batteries?
They're a fraud, nobody is following them. And you can't repair them (not even a little bit), that's a deal-breaker for me.
The chemistry in the 4680 form can be changed and has been already. The new dry paste method allows them to be produced in a much smaller space so more in each factory. The revolution continues!😮
@@malcolmrickarby2313 when these were announced a few years back now I thought they were a done deal apart from the way to produce them on mass , to me these appear to be taking a heck of a long time
What's the best type of battery if you live in Northern Canada where it is -30° C (sometimes-40° C) in the winter and can get very hot in the summer too?
Swapable upgradable Tesla battery packs would be nice as battery technology improves
This could be revolutionary if Tesla doesn’t software limit your mileage like the new model S and X. We all want 500+ miles of range
Wrong! I’m happy with half that.😃
@@malcolmrickarby2313 that’s good. It’s usually cool for people who don’t take road trips
Excellent. Would like new LFP on cybertruck.
Small side-note; charging LFP based batteries to 100% will still give you less cycle life than limiting to 90% or less. It's just that you get ~3-4x the cycle life over turnery based batteries at the same cycle procedures so it doesn't feel as bad. Some charts show based on earlier LFP chemistries, just keeping the DoD at 80% (between 10-90% SoC) will increase the cycle life from 2000, to 4-5000. It's a big difference. Keeping the DoD to 50% can increase that to 10,000+ cycles. It's pretty insane actually.
Edit: the chart I was using was based on single cycles. Not Effective Full Cycles. It seems there really is little longevity benefits from charging below 90% on LFP. NMC is a different matter, the difference is huge. The LFP chart extrapolates that a DoD of ~30% results in 70,000 cycles!! Even if you did that three times a day (effectively using one whole battery capacity) you could do that for 63 years straight!
The reason you are instructed to charge LFP batteries to 100% is not just because of longer life. LFP batteries do not discharge in a linear way like cobalt based chemistries do.
The voltage remains almost the same from about 80% to about 20%, meaning the computer can't estimate remaining charge based on voltage alone. Charging the battery to 100% calibrates that algorithm, otherwise you have no idea how much energy you actually have.
Being into Drones before drones became drones. We have been playing with LiPo chemistries for a long time. This is from 10 Years ago. Battery chemistries make a lot of difference. th-cam.com/video/fucFhqx-hHw/w-d-xo.html
What is DoD? I work with (but not for) the Department of Defense and that is what keeps popping into my head.
@@jeffreymerriam7025 Depth of Discharge?
@@dgurevich1 That's correct. For an EV it's a good idea to charge to 100% every so often for that calibration and balancing. Although they should be keeping track of Ah or coulombs to help determine SoC. EV's certainly have the hardware and compute power for it.
For other applications like grid storage, accurate SoC doesn't matter so much. I only charge my solar bank to 3.4V/cell knowing that's close enough to 90%. It has active cell balancing at that voltage to keep the pack relatively level.
You made a video about Gotion signing a 200 GWh LFP Battery Deal With Major Publicly Traded US Automaker, was it Tesla? I can't find any new information on it
I am so sorry to hear that the game is over. What are you going to do now that it’s over? I was just getting really interested in the whole EV competition. Oh well.
It looks like a US battery maker plans to compete with CATL ... at least in the US with Amprius out of California and they claim to beat the 500Whkg CATL batteries. Sandy Munro has been talking about them recently on his TH-cam channel. They are also located near Tesla in California and apparently have been working with Tesla. Mr. Evans, you might want to make a new video about the Amprius batteries and find out if they will make it into Teslas and when?
Neither products are mass production ready. Amprius has been promising a bit too much at least since 2018 and delivering not much. It also takes a lot of lead time from lab to manufacturing to commercialization.
@@tooltalk Yup, tru dat. We're also waiting on the NASA SABERS 1100 Wh/kg sulfur battery for airplanes etc for flight.
I have been around long enough to know that not everything a company says about it’s produce proves to be correct. Putting a product in consumers hands sometimes reveals serious flaws. In the world of automobiles we call it recalls.
500Wh/kg will enable airliners? The ICCT calculation said that batteries need to have 1500 for a regional airline, 3000 for a narrow body and 8800 for a wide body. We are very far away from enabling commercial flight
I live in western Canada, and can expect to see a few nights of -40C in winter, & a week or so of +40C in summer. My next car will be a Tesla, if only because their thermal management systems are so good. FSD will be the cherry on the cake. But no rush - our beloved 2007 low-mileage Honda Fit is still working perfectly for my wife & me.
Don’t bother changing your car. Change where you live! Don’t wait for global warming to make your current home habitable.
If these new batteries can almost eliminate thermal runaway from ever occurring then it is indeed a game changer.
Amazing that we've gone from an 80mile range Nissan Leaf to >300 mile MG in 10 years, for a similar price.
What will the next 10 years bring?
Cold weather is common for around 1/3 of the US population. Many nights get down to -10F even in coastal New York and New England, let alone further inland.
Why do you want to live in a life threatening environment like that? Or is that why Biden and Putin are not doing much about global warming? The people who live in warm temperate to tropical 🏝 paradise want to know.🤷♂️🌝
@@malcolmrickarby2313 I love snow and winter activities. This area is beautiful and we get the joy of 4 distinct seasons that one can enjoy the differences.
Plus, in the US the tropical places, Florida and our part of the Gulf Coast are too hot. Further they get lots of hurricanes. We get them up here less often and the storms are weaker when they get here. The US Midwest has way more tornadoes. The US West is hotter plus earthquakes. The US southwest is way too hot and dry. All those places are nice to visit, but the US northeast is the best place to live in America.
@@mikenyc1501 thanks for letting us know.🥶👉🏝🤷♂️
Nio did not go cap in hand to Welion for the semi solid state battery, they own the company, another fact you forgot to mention
EV motorcycles could also benefit greatly from the 500 kWh/kg batteries, range and slow charging speeds are the problem for them. This is mostly due to the poor aerodynamics of motos at speed
"500 kWh/kg" is 1.8GJ per kg. That's 391 times higher energy density than TNT at 4.6MJ/kg!
If that could exist, then an ebike consuming 20Wh/km would get 25,000 km range per kg.
Thanks Andy, my bad, brain fart or wishful thinking, should be 500 Wh/kg, not 500,000Wh/kg! That hypothetical battery would be “dynamite”
@@JBean_COCR Indeed! 🙂
Sure, all automotives would greatly benefit from batteries with equal gas ICE efficiency - 12K Wh/kg. The theoretical max for NCM is only about 350 Wh/kg -- in practice though, SK Innovation's NCM9+ is close to 320Wh/kg now; LFP is only 200 Wh -- while most are 160 Wh/pkg in reality. we are way off there.
Also, slow charging isn't necessarily the problem here. Most LFPs are used in entry-level, low-range EVs with small batteries (~65kWh), so they have very little to benefit from high charging C-rtes while most NCM8/9 are already capable of much higher C-rates (charging/dischargin).
Wh/kg is Watt hour per kilogram not Watt per kg. Completely different thing if you know a tiny bit of physics.
Wouldnt Ford benefit from this as well, given the joint venture?
I have a Geely Geometry c electric car with CATL battery.
Do you believe CATL and Geely will allow a battery replacement to the new battery in the future ?
Just buy a nio ... swap battery... dont swap battery ... takes 3 mins if you do , who going to buy these old poor quality teslas with depleting junk battery or 23k bill to replace battery
When you increase the power density if LFP, it also means the risk for fire also increases. Thats is the nature of chemical interactions
re: "When you increase the power density if LFP, it also means the risk for fire also increases." excellent observation. re: "Thats is the nature of chemical interactions"
Fisker is using the CATL battery in it’s Ocean that get 360 US miles. Is this a different CATL battery than what is in the Fisker?
Front loading with super caps might help
Time for a NIO bashing
Why can't CATL sell same batteries 🔋 to other car and Solar Storage Companies???
Ford wanted to licence CATL tech and build a massive battery plant in Virginia. The governor said oh no it's Chinese tech. Don't build it here. F off 10,000 jobs and 50,000 ancialry jobs.😳🙄
Why would you want fast charg7ng batteries for solar roofs? Energy density doesnt matter either too much. Long cycles are important for max. RoI imho
Far as I know , they do? as the other commend pointed out - those can be different battery designs. Cost is more important for Grid and Home storage than how quickly it can charge or how much it can store.
Is it Game Over or a Game Changer? What is this Game you guys keep talking about? Must be rugby if it's in Australia? :). Seriously, I'd be interested in stationary sodium ion batteries at $150-200 for 100 amps.
Where can I get them, Home Depot?
I’d like to see that Excel sheet. 😅
The new batteries aren't a Tesla exclusive. They are available to any EV maker willing to buy them, so how is this an advantage for Tesla?
0 degrees C? That is 7 Months of the year in Canada. We need cars to work at minus 30.
7:02 “cold place where temps hit 0 degrees C,” laughing my ass off. That’s not even cold, that is just cool for most places in North America. Probably not much ice fishing where you live.
Same questions remain.. Over time how resilient will they be to degradation??
Lfp = very
@gerardhaus8150 Cheaper, 30% less energy dense, no cobalt, worse range & cold weather charging.. & you are right more resilient to degradation, & capable of charging to 100% every now & then is recommend..
@@peterklausner9727 : a few things you should know about LFPs:
1. All lithium ion batteries, including LFPs, degrades faster at high SOC (state of charge) and high C-rates (charge/discharge).
2. LFP has much lower energy density and is heavier.
3. LFP lasts much longer in stationary energy storage systems with low-C and low-SOC (eg, Tesla's PowerWall), but ages poorly in EVs with high C and high SOC -- which is why LFP is strictly limited to entry-level, low-range EVs.
4. Cleanwatt, citing Tessie's tracking data, reports that Tesla LFPs lose first 10% of battery capacity twice as fast as non-LFP models, ie - to 90% SOH. Recurrent, a EV rental company, has similar data supporting this finding -- ie, LFP"s faster degradation.
5. Tesla recommends charging to 100% full because BMS needs to be recalibrated frequently to be able to estimate accurate range and avoid cell imbalance issue. Other EV OEMs, such as Ford, recommends 90%.
6. we don't know a lot about Tesla's LFP real world long-term lifespan under Tesla's recommendation. It would probably outlast the 8-year warranty, which is also same for non-LFP models, but not nearly as long as most Tesla drivers would like to believe.
7. LFP's key advantage over NCM/A is its cost. (but if and only if the prices of nicke/cobalts are higher than that of lithium). LFP at this point is more expensive than high-nickel NCM's in raw material costs.
Do the math. LFP is usually rated for 2000 to 4000 full cycles.
Most evs are using approx 17kwhr per 100kms. Thus your 60kwhr battery might give you 350kms. Or, 2000 x 350kms = 700000kms to 1.4M kms battery life.
The ave daily commute here in Oz is 42kms. @ 42kms perday, the battery life above equates to 46 to 92yrs. Of course, the car will likely be worn out after 20yrs - 20yrs is the ave life on the road of a car here in Oz.
Thus, a LFP batter should last the 20yr life of a car, providing you do not fast charge it. Note, 90% of all ev charging events are slow charging at home atm.
This will tank current Tesla model values another 30%
How long should we wait before calling you out on that comment?😮
The “battery of the day”, Number 375!
Montreal, Canada. We swing from -25 in winter to 35 + in summer
Darwin Australia. We swing from 28 to 32 summer and winter🌝🏝.
Looking forward to battery powered planes, boats and cargo trains with the compact battery they will be bringing out.
I can only imagine how the public will react if they knew their airplane was powered by rechargeable batteries. Not well. 🙂
Planes aren't that efficient. But trains are, and few use any battery propulsion. Bring on the hybrid locomotives!
@@toonman361, why would they care?
Only cargo trains ? FR?
@@johnt5222yes!
In real terms this will mean the stock will drop on this news 🙄
I _luv it_ when tsla stock price drops... I can "hoard" more,
making up for all those early years I was too oblivious to get any!
Good times to buy. I'm also making up for lost time. I wanted in after my first model S drive in 2015 Not affordable back then for me.
@@waynelevett3632 Hi I started buying in 2020 I stopped this year when it reached $200.00 ps. That was my 'let's see how this plays out' point. If I've got this right I don't need to buy anymore shares. One portfolio will be sold in 2025/6 the other 2030( but not if Tesla starts to pay dividends).
Amazing video. Thanks
What happens with 4680 battery that is supposed to be used in Cybertruck? Is it 4680 that delays Cybertruck’s delivery?
We where stupid enough to build an economy/society on a transport system that is only 30% effective called combustion engine.... I was really hoping we would be much much smarter this time and i really hope solidstate batterys becomes the norm soon.
solid state sounds good. super capacitor sounds better. joe cell sounds even better.
That was the best technology that we had at the time. Be thankfull for it.
@@robertfonovic3551 nope... First car was electric...
@@longnamenocansayy solidstate can be broken and still work... There is no competition..
@pse2020 I said best and not first. Learn to read and comprehend mate.
I would definitely get a Affordable car with these Batteries ahead of a Gas engine car. Hopefully someone can turn the backseat of car and have it transform into a urban camping Man Cave with extra A.C. power a Bed a TV. Game system mini fridge etc.
"electric classic cars syncro" You might be interested in a converted VW camper. It's like a mini van.
Sam discussing DOZENS of new chemistries - how can we keep track? Can we order the one we want even? Too much fun!!
8:40 That one is from BYD Bladesystem ^^ But hey, it is not like we talk about CATL & Tesla :)
This battery space has moved too quickly. Every two weeks there's new development
I hope you are right, I’ve hopped on the bandwagon of so many battery wow stories to end up underwhelmed, I am jaded.
Battery tech breakthroughs have been one of the most frequent and persistent lies in the last 30 years of science publications.
We still suffer with Duracell and Energizer garbage FFS
@@yourlogicalnightmare1014 45 years ago in 1st year electrical engineer class we were asked to predict the most important invention, I submitted low cost high energy density batteries, nobody thanked me for it, still relevant after all these years.
Miracle game-changing battery breakthroughs have come thick and fast for decades. Most of them are lies but just a few like the lithium-ion battery and the nickel-metal-hydride battery are not. Now we can get batteries with ten times the energy storage capacity of the batteries of the same weight that we could get 40 years ago, and vastly greater durability as well.
@@yourlogicalnightmare1014 Have you been living under a rock? Battery technology and chemistries have dramatically improved over the last decade. CATL are not in the habbit of bullshitiing, if they say they have it then it's coming to market.
@@SmithsMobile
Have you not seen the whole zero improvement in Duracell and Energizer batteries in the past 50 years 😂
Those batteries shouldn't even exist anymore. My Fenix and Nitecore flashlights can drain those batteries in 30 seconds
You might get longer range from LFP by charging to 100%. But there are two reasons for only charging to 80% on NCA. One is to avoid battery degradation. The other is the charging curve. So does it make sense to supercharge your LFP to 100% to get more range? Only when you really need to. But occasional charging an NCA to 100% is fine too.
Our Mod Y rwd uses a LFP battery. They say the energy density isn’t as high as Li-Co. However the acceleration of our car is phenomenal. Couldn’t handle any more power😊.
So nothing the matter with LFP performance at all.
Due to the fact that you can charge to 100% means that our range is higher than American build Teslas.
Game changing? I'd agree. Any new battery chemistry/architecture would 'change the game' generally.
But game over?? I don't think so as we've no idea what battery (or other energy source) tech is just around the corner. But I get what message you're trying to impart.
Is this confirmed?
Why is the CATL stock not reacting?
cause this is B.S. !!!
This guy talk a lot but delivers no facts just a commercial for CATL
b/c this is nowhere as groundbreaking as this clueless Viking thinks it is. Also in the battery world, the lead time from lab, to manufacturing, to commercialization is at least 3-4 years.
@@tooltalk This is going into mass production by the end of the year though.
@@4203105 >> This is going into mass production by the end of the year though.
As long as the government doesn’t interfere, the threat of a competitor can be enough to keep a near monopoly from behaving badly.
Great video! So I have a 2023 Subaru Solterra. I know they have CATL batteries since I'm in California. Is there a way to know how what model battery or possibly know how many true miles based on the capacity? It's a 72.8-kWh battery.
A patent doesn't last forever. It will certainly give them a huge head start unless they can achieve something similar with a different chemistry. The competition will always strive to narrow the gap. Everntually the chemistry will be available to all, if they're still in business.
They could probably just slightly change the chemistry
Even if they reach that level of Energy, longevity & safety, they are already working on a better solution for future batteries, so competition will always be behind the 8 ball!
Patents are supposed to let you charge higher prices to recoup your up front research and development costs. But yeah, you could probably tweak chemistry and get around it.
Sometimes people are stuck to one technology, look how long lead acid batteries dominated before they discovered something better. Now everyone in mood for change.
When the patent protection going to expired I believe they will has new better new battery pattern anyway.
Next month another battery breakthrough will be announced that will change everything even more!
I like Sam a lot, but this is a nothing burger report. It isn’t gonna collapse the EV industry and Tesla lies like hell about their range anyways. My Ioniq 5 batteries perform this way already this new wonder battery does already.
400 mile real world range is what I want
Could you possibly do a video about Prieto Battery Technologies? They are allegedly able to recharge in 1-3 minutes.
Uhhh? Its only 10% improvement granted it comes with other benefits - but those were there already. Guess I am not seeing the "killer" thing here. Solid State Na+S will be the future :D super light weight, smaller, and stronger batteries that dont break the bank. Granted, Li + S will still be slightly better - but for sure will off set by their cost. If anything a hybrid design will be where it is at using both of them. No liquids either that causes thermal run away - making either option much much safer. EVs only need a power dens of around 400-500 before they will be consider "good enough" for the average user and trucks need around 800-1k something I think a chemistry battery like these could hit close to or on top of. Hitting those two alone would cut into a lot of carbon marks + auto driving for trucks and cars will help with transporting goods and services around a lot better. The best value would be around the 500-600 mark for EVs - at that point we're talking HALF the batter size and weight at almost double the range. Now we're talking about a car that would out strip any ICE car on the road.
Do you always reply to sarcastic comments?
Um did you know per liter of fuel it is only 2.2kw/kg after you subtract the efficiency of a gas motor
@@lesstevens2370 That would be on par with the max power dents of Li-S batteries at around 2600 wh/kg . Granted, my point is "good enough" being the key area to hit. Most people dont take their cars on road trips every day. The ones that do can still be using ICE cars. Let alone this wouldnt happen over night - it'll be another 50+ years I would assume before EVs fully take over. Even then I dont see a world that wont have a few ICE cars still as the demand for gasoline drops - the supply, and thus the cost, of it will drop/go up making it a harder choice sometimes to go EV when you can pick a used ICE car up for less than 5k$ and your fuel/energy cost less than a 1$. To play fair, think its also hard to compare the two - just lots of factors to play around with. For example, as the power goes top - the less weight is needed over all - thus at max power - we're talking a batter pack 6-7 times smaller than they are now - giving back a ton of weight back to the car it no longer has to carry around allowing it to go I would assume even further per mile of energy. Even more so, unlike ICE cars that have to have bulky heavy engines, EVs do have another option as well that is lighter and smaller with about the same power ef as their counter parts that would also require less weight.
@adr2t actually when the demand goes down for fuel the price will skyrocket probably $10 a gallon because all these oil companies are leveraged to the nine they can't afford to give fuel away on there dime it kinda like car manufacturers you need to mass produce vehicles at scale for the prices to be cheaper if you have a low demand price go up
@@lesstevens2370 The thing about gasoline though is that its already a small amount of the over use of oil in general though - oil will still be needed for other things - yet there will be a large supply on the market because not everyone will be about to use it up. From bio fuel, shelling oil, and just gasoline - we're still talking at least 50 years out so yea. You also still have Ruissia thats going to want to sell their oil either way to fund their country and other oil base producers that at some point will see a smaller demand either way over all as all countries move away from oil heating and or for car use. Even if they want more - they wont get it because EV exist now - and people will just move faster over to it. So yea, I still see a world where fuel drops as the demand drops and the supply stays high.
When I hear this statement “You can charge your LFP battery each time to 100% they won’t have any degradation” I want to vomit. How can you spread this nonsense? If is less affected than NCM by charging it to 100% that doesn’t mean is immune.
My tesla advises me to charge to 100% and we have had no problems ( so far ).
@@elainebradley8213 To have an accurate state of charge you need to charge it to 100%, only between 99% to 100% the calibration of the battery starts. On LFP batteries the voltage is pretty consistent from 20% to 90%, only on the up and bottom end the voltage changes and is hard to calculate a precise % of the battery.
LFP had a lower nominal voltage than NCM and this will result in a longer life,3-4 times more than NCM.
Tesla will want to compromise a bit on battery life (mostly won’t need the battery for more than 600.000 mile) and to have a precise state of charge to avoid a sudden drop from 20% to 5%, but if you want a longer battery life you should reduce the numbers of charges until 100% to 1 in 1-2 weeks.
10% of 280 miles is 28 miles. So the expected range for the same battery weight should be 308 miles or so.
I'm not sure it's game over. The way I see it we will have EVs with different battery chemistries based on market, customers with performance, quality and range preferences. I wouldn't be surprised for mainstream markets going more for Li turnery mixtures or perhaps hybrid batteries, whilst more temperate climates can enjoy the LiFePh advantages and quirks. Hotter climates may perhaps also prefer LiFe type batteries who ate let Hest prone runaway. In that regard I'm curious what sodium batteries will do in each climate setting.
Na should be able to hit cold and hot areas - but with lower range - so more low end range cars until more search and they become the "Good enough" mark. Then again, I do see them being used in some type of hybrid design either with Li or maybe some type of NaFe design. Granted, I think all of them will be going towards solid state + sulfur designs. Sulfur is easier to get a hold of over active carbon and normally cheaper than Fe. Major reason is the fact it can hold more charge ~ thus lower the weight, size, and cost. Going solid state removes weight + a liquids that can cause thermal run way - making them safer. Going back to Li and Na hybrid designs would then be lighter, but Na can work better in both temperature - but using the Li once it warms up / cools down enough to use that instead for the longer range.
What happened to the development of Sodium batteries?
What do you mean, what happened? Just because there are sodium batteries doesn't mean there aren't still lithium batteries.
It went quiet at the time I asked this question
We can occasionally get -30c weather during winter here in QC Canada
Stop whining and move to the south of France 🇫🇷.
Well, I could agree with you Sam, but not completely. CATL is THE world first batteries company and is leading the way for now, yes, but that doesn't mean others do nothing. Many news comes from other chineses companies but also from Europe and US, going in the same direction. I agree that solid state batteries won't be sold on the market before many years... if they will one day.
If it's CATL that says it, it will definitely happen
you mean to supply all car manufacturers as CATL has been doing for years now!!
Thats good to read, the moment I heard 'Tesla' I became quite sceptical.
@@philippkemptner4604 why sceptical? Tesla promised 4680 batteries, they delivered... They promised 500k deliveries by 2020, they delivered.... Promised 50% compounding growth, so far they doing just that 🤷 what are you sceptical about
@@philippkemptner4604 maybe you must say "the moment I heard Tesla, I started hating that battery"...... That would be understandable
@@alanmay7929 yes... I mean it's a legitimate battery tech. Not this nonsense battery breakthroughs from nobodies that Viking always talks about