That 30 second scene pf Seymour pleading with his mother and only a few other lines of dialpgue really struck a chord with me. I dont think he's evil necessarily. He's a deeply hurt man that was bettayed by nearly everyone in the world he knew. I would've definitely killed my father for doing what Jyscal did. As for the other stuff. Well, how much can a person really take before their mind breaks?
I think the more important question is, what kind of hair product did he use? Seriously though I do like your comparison of Seymour's motivation to Buddism (a connection I never considered) and how he is shaped by his experiences of his childhood, learning of the ultimate futility of your mother sacrifice would be more than enough to drive someone mad. Unfortunatly It seems a lot of people in the Final Fantasy fandom think of Seymour simply as a deranged nihilist with silly hair, I think this is at least partially because his is overshadowed by the living natural disaster that is Sin which is for most a more memorable video game villan.
I think his hair only makes sense because of his heritage. The Guado look they have some sick hold for their hair. Maybe one of the shops in Guadosalam should have been a hair saloon.
Seymour's plan is actually really interesting. He wants to become Sin, which means that he has to beat Sin...But not as the Summoner. He could do that any time he wanted to. He has to beat Sin as THE FINAL AEON, so he can basically take control. And he needs a Summoner for that, hence Yuna.
I find his plan strange tbh. His main goal after becoming sin is to whipe out everything. Something sin was already doing for years. Also he wanted control? Pretty sure he would be a mindless slave to yu yevon just like the rest
@@TenkabitoShienpretty much, if any aeon was gonna be brainwashed to be sin no matter what, then his pain was a total joke that wouldn't work no matter what unless he had some hidden plan that hes not telling us about that can stop the brainwashing but honestly nothing would change then just the usual sin comes back again
@@TenkabitoShien not to mention there needs to be a strong bond between the summoner and their guardian for the ritual to work, so could he even become a final aeon by forcing Yuna to sacrifice him?
funfact: when I played X first as a child, back when we had to pay wifi by the hour and therefore I only had one very incomplete print out of a walktrough to help me with the game I could not stand Seymour, made fun of his flamboyant behaviour and ultimately got stuck on Mt. Gagazette fighting him. I did not dare to touch or find the motivation to replay X for such a long time - I knew what was happening, I watched Cutscenes and read summaries over the years. Then when the lockdown came I was like "Ok, now or never, you have the HD collection catching dust, try to play it again" - and I'm glad I did. Seymour, as it turned out, is now one of my favorite characters from X. He is a good villain, because he doesn't see himself as one. He genuinely thinks he would do every living being a big favor releasing them from their endless suffering. This makes him an awesome antagonist.
@@BirdsOfPlay I did not dislike it back then I was just too young to understand a lot of things. I think I got to appreciate it more. Back then everyone complained about linearity now after countless open world games more linear games are a welcome change.
I get what you mean. I doubt XVI will be all that linear but I'm looking forward to seeing how it will balance the focus on the narrative and the openness of the world. Then again, I know very little about how the game will be structured so saying it won't be linear like X is just an educated guess.
That's where I was, back in 2001. Back then, it was my first real game with a story and I was so drawn into it. (previously only Sonic, or Mario) I was completely overwhelmed. I didn't know anything like that before. So I leveled my characters for a couple of hours. I really wanted to know what happens next.
I always disliked how the cast sees a bit of his past here and there (specially in Zanarkand) but none of them have any reactions to it? I felt kind of bad for him, he wasn't born evil but a product of circumstances...
No, he wasnt evil. His reasoning made sense to me even as a 12 year old. It seemed that people suffered for little to no reason in Spira just playing as Tidus and because Seymour knew about Yunalesca, the real truth of Yu Yevon further solidified his reason that people suffer and are offered false hope in the form of a religion. From what I remember in the game, even Tidus couldn't argue against him at first and was mostly upset about him trying to marry Yuna. I loved his character. So many of the characters had poor examples of fathers or no fathers at all, that I thought the game was a study on affective fatherhood. I dont think msot players would have more sympathy wtih Seymour even if thwy were to see more of the devastation of Sin. The natural human instinct is to cling to life, so him wanting to end ALL people's lives was a no go from the beginning.
Can't forget that kinok, who helped lead operation mihen, leads the yevon monks. Bhudists have also led to the birth of religious warrior monks. And depending on the guatos opinion on the far plane, it's possible that he like aeris in vii that death led you to the promised land. It's not a stretch to imagine him being right. It's just scary to imagine bc death is so final, and if he's wrong. No bueno. But in ffx not being sent seems pretty sweet. But if you reject yevon and despise them living after death, why wouldn't you assume true death to be freedom??
Also I think he legit thought that as sin he could stop the havoc. He didn't go totally nuts until after he dies, and from his pov, is betrayed by yuna.
I think Seymour's lack of context for the sheer magnitude of suffering Sin brings is in part due to Tidus' role for the player. Tidus experiences Spira at the same time the player does, both player and Tidus learn new things about Spira at the same time which is central to a lot of the core plot elements in the story. The twist that Yuna would have to sacrifice herself if she wanted to save people from Sin only works because we the player and Tidus are completely oblivious to this fact until the end of the 2nd act/start of the 3rd act. The few times we see Sin's destructive power we are arguably less connected to the innocent people of Spira it kills because Tidus himself also has no connection to it beyond the circle of guardians and Yuna he travels with. Tidus and the player are just travelling through learning as we go. Perhaps Seymour could have been a more empathetic villain if Tidus got to bare witness to a loss he himself cared about beyond just the original party. Perhaps Tidus could have connected to some of the other Spira residents like more time with the Aurochs hanging out with him or a young fan of the Aurochs starts to pop up periodically. Like, maybe as a callback to Tidus signing autographs for the kids in Zanarkand we perhaps see a young new Aurochs fan have a moment with Tidus. Perhaps the kid is being picked on or is having doubts about themselves becoming a player some day (being told they're useless and a crybaby like Tidus was by Jecht). Tidus could then have a moment with this kid where he boosts their confidence and that if they just smile and train hard they'll show those bullies that they could do anything, show him some basics for a specific shot to practice too. We then maybe see this kid survive the initial attack on the Luca Blitzball tournament and the kid shows up a few times practicing a shot that Tidus taught him. Over time we see the kid get better and better before finally finding them being killed later in the game by another Sin attack. This would help hammer into the player that death by Sin comes to everyone and maybe give the player a moment of feeling the time spent teaching this kid and giving them hope was meaningless. Hell you could even have a moment where Seymour is perhaps present when Tidus finds the kid and makes comment about how tragic it is to make Tidus start to connect with what he said (sometime before we see him be a big bastard at Guadosalam and beyond). That's just me though, I'm no writer or game designer but I do like thinking about what parts of the story work and what don't for different people and as players. Nice analysis, Seymour is underrated due to context for him probably not being handled the best way.
After watching this video. I realized I didn't hate Seymour because of his character. I HATED HIM BECAUSE HE JUST WOULDN'T DIE! Also I love analysis videos like these 😭🖤 Dropped a sub
This is an amazing video. I feel that Seymour is underrated. Have you played FFXIV? I'd love to hear your take on Emet-Selch and Elidibus. Arguably the best villains in whole FF franchise.
I have played FFXIV (and I'm currently replaying it over on Twitch like a madman). I'm very excited about Endwalker since it will conclude the Hydaelyn-Zodiark saga, which creates a great opportunity to analyse the game and the story so far. Would love to talk about Emet-Selch and Elidibus at some point in the hopefully not too distant future!
Seymour is my favorite character in this game. He just seems misunderstood to me. Becoming Sin and ridding Spira of pain and suffering by killing anyone does have some morbid reasoning to it, but I think he thinks that way because of him father's treatment of him and his mother's sacrifice. He doesn't want people to suffer as he did.
Haha, yeah. Thanks for watching the video, even though you got a little preview over on Twitch yesterday when I was trying to formulate my thoughts on the topic.
I watched all his scenes earlier, on numerous occasions he reminded me of Zamasu haha. I reckon that to create Zamasu, a lot of games and other media were used and I’m thinking possibly this game, maybe, I don’t know though. It could just be coincidence as after all there are a lot of those around, they tend to happen in my story writing too. I’ll write something, that I later find out actually exists in a movie or something, it’s crazy honestly and it has happened many, many times.
I've known for over half my life that Seymour's mother sacrificed herself to become an aeon, but only recently have I been gathering that she's supposed to be his "final aeon." Other people have sacrificed themselves to become aeons (basically all of them, I think), but they're just regular aeons. So did Seymour and/or his mom make her his final aeon by going to Yunalesca or did she become an aeon through some other ritualistic means? She's found in the Baaj Temple and other summoners can call upon Anima's power. Also, there's the whole "summoning the final aeon is detrimental to the summoner" thing. So why have i been hearing lately that Anima is Seymour's final aeon?
Seymour just "typical Final Fantasy Villain" it's always : -I have dark past (bullied, lost their parent, lost their hometown or kingdom, last kind of their race) -I'm seeking revenge by destroying the world or become a God, (or Both, "Become a God and destroy the world") Seymour wants to "Become a God" by become SIN and destroy the world as SIN, Kefka wants to destroy the world by imbalancing all the elements, Kuja wants to destroy the world because "His lifespan is limited as prototype Gnome", The Emperor (FF 2) wants to destroy the world by conquering Hell and ultimately Earth.
He's typical but the context is a bit different due to the Buddhist connotations. At least different enough to explore if the aim is to understand his character more deeply.
*Unsent waiting to get into the Farplane after Yuna's final Sending* Anima: Seymour, I am getting tired. Tell them we're going next. Seymour: I'm not Grand Measter of the line, mother. Anima: And you never will be!
A part of me pities Seymour and his mother. But I know it must be done. She wanted so badly her son to live a happy life, especially since it's implied hers was ending due to her illness...
Thank you. So much. Seymour helped me through my trauma while I was going through it. And I promised myself I would use his knowledge but I would never let myself get that bad because it was already showing that I could. Tidus was an abusive narcissistic charactwr, did not shut up, and characters that weren't having it eventually caved. The audience makes up their opinion based on Tidus being too loud . And... his mother was too. Even if there is little evidence of that, I can still recognize it. I think many things in seymours timeline were left out. Only to be seen if you pay attention to background dialogue. The fact that the children were safe with him and lived him was also something I admired, and Kinoc not only acts but looks exactly like my predator growing up. I am very unsatisfied with the way the Narrative steered things and how people worship the other villians with love and understanding but hate him so much. I believe if Tidus was not there we would have seen more dialgoue between the characters and seymour. And if it weren't for the tinelime loops and ripples that were created when Tidus arrived, Seymour could have been talked of his ultimate goals through proper friendships.
I also want to add that he's showing early signs of fighting and losing the battle of deep possession from the chaotic broken Farplane that all the other Maesters surrender themselves to for eternal life.
Doesn't really negate my point. But stay toxic. Btw, just realised you have Hallgrímskirkja as your profile picture. We also accept non-constructive feedback in Icelandic. Verðum í bandi.
Seymour is the manifestation of a child that isn't loved by the village will burn it down to feel it's warmth
That 30 second scene pf Seymour pleading with his mother and only a few other lines of dialpgue really struck a chord with me. I dont think he's evil necessarily. He's a deeply hurt man that was bettayed by nearly everyone in the world he knew. I would've definitely killed my father for doing what Jyscal did. As for the other stuff. Well, how much can a person really take before their mind breaks?
I think the more important question is, what kind of hair product did he use?
Seriously though I do like your comparison of Seymour's motivation to Buddism (a connection I never considered) and how he is shaped by his experiences of his childhood, learning of the ultimate futility of your mother sacrifice would be more than enough to drive someone mad. Unfortunatly It seems a lot of people in the Final Fantasy fandom think of Seymour simply as a deranged nihilist with silly hair, I think this is at least partially because his is overshadowed by the living natural disaster that is Sin which is for most a more memorable video game villan.
I think his hair only makes sense because of his heritage. The Guado look they have some sick hold for their hair. Maybe one of the shops in Guadosalam should have been a hair saloon.
He's a Tree its a branch. But I do have a theory that part of his hair is like Cat whiskers hehe.
Seymour's plan is actually really interesting. He wants to become Sin, which means that he has to beat Sin...But not as the Summoner. He could do that any time he wanted to. He has to beat Sin as THE FINAL AEON, so he can basically take control.
And he needs a Summoner for that, hence Yuna.
I find his plan strange tbh. His main goal after becoming sin is to whipe out everything. Something sin was already doing for years. Also he wanted control? Pretty sure he would be a mindless slave to yu yevon just like the rest
@@TenkabitoShienpretty much, if any aeon was gonna be brainwashed to be sin no matter what, then his pain was a total joke that wouldn't work no matter what unless he had some hidden plan that hes not telling us about that can stop the brainwashing but honestly nothing would change then just the usual sin comes back again
@@TenkabitoShien not to mention there needs to be a strong bond between the summoner and their guardian for the ritual to work, so could he even become a final aeon by forcing Yuna to sacrifice him?
I wanted Seymour in my party... he was my favorite villain
funfact: when I played X first as a child, back when we had to pay wifi by the hour and therefore I only had one very incomplete print out of a walktrough to help me with the game I could not stand Seymour, made fun of his flamboyant behaviour and ultimately got stuck on Mt. Gagazette fighting him. I did not dare to touch or find the motivation to replay X for such a long time - I knew what was happening, I watched Cutscenes and read summaries over the years. Then when the lockdown came I was like "Ok, now or never, you have the HD collection catching dust, try to play it again" - and I'm glad I did.
Seymour, as it turned out, is now one of my favorite characters from X. He is a good villain, because he doesn't see himself as one. He genuinely thinks he would do every living being a big favor releasing them from their endless suffering. This makes him an awesome antagonist.
That is a fun fact! Glad you took the time to play it! Did you end up liking the game in general or was it just your opinion of Seymour that changed?
@@BirdsOfPlay I did not dislike it back then I was just too young to understand a lot of things. I think I got to appreciate it more. Back then everyone complained about linearity now after countless open world games more linear games are a welcome change.
I get what you mean. I doubt XVI will be all that linear but I'm looking forward to seeing how it will balance the focus on the narrative and the openness of the world. Then again, I know very little about how the game will be structured so saying it won't be linear like X is just an educated guess.
That's where I was, back in 2001. Back then, it was my first real game with a story and I was so drawn into it. (previously only Sonic, or Mario) I was completely overwhelmed. I didn't know anything like that before. So I leveled my characters for a couple of hours. I really wanted to know what happens next.
I always disliked how the cast sees a bit of his past here and there (specially in Zanarkand) but none of them have any reactions to it? I felt kind of bad for him, he wasn't born evil but a product of circumstances...
Seymour appears
Seymour: 😎
Tidus and friends: 🙄
Seymour is one of my favorite characters ever.
This was a terrific analysis. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thanks so much! Will do my best! - Nökkvi
Please consider subscribing to the channel if you end up liking the video! Would love to see you around! Caw-caw!
No, he wasnt evil. His reasoning made sense to me even as a 12 year old. It seemed that people suffered for little to no reason in Spira just playing as Tidus and because Seymour knew about Yunalesca, the real truth of Yu Yevon further solidified his reason that people suffer and are offered false hope in the form of a religion.
From what I remember in the game, even Tidus couldn't argue against him at first and was mostly upset about him trying to marry Yuna.
I loved his character. So many of the characters had poor examples of fathers or no fathers at all, that I thought the game was a study on affective fatherhood.
I dont think msot players would have more sympathy wtih Seymour even if thwy were to see more of the devastation of Sin. The natural human instinct is to cling to life, so him wanting to end ALL people's lives was a no go from the beginning.
Can't forget that kinok, who helped lead operation mihen, leads the yevon monks. Bhudists have also led to the birth of religious warrior monks. And depending on the guatos opinion on the far plane, it's possible that he like aeris in vii that death led you to the promised land. It's not a stretch to imagine him being right. It's just scary to imagine bc death is so final, and if he's wrong. No bueno. But in ffx not being sent seems pretty sweet. But if you reject yevon and despise them living after death, why wouldn't you assume true death to be freedom??
Also I think he legit thought that as sin he could stop the havoc. He didn't go totally nuts until after he dies, and from his pov, is betrayed by yuna.
YES!!!! As a Seymour fangirl, I'm extremely happy!
Glad I could feed the fangirl in you! With all the hate Seymour gets it's always great to know there are also people who appreciate his character.
I think Seymour's lack of context for the sheer magnitude of suffering Sin brings is in part due to Tidus' role for the player. Tidus experiences Spira at the same time the player does, both player and Tidus learn new things about Spira at the same time which is central to a lot of the core plot elements in the story. The twist that Yuna would have to sacrifice herself if she wanted to save people from Sin only works because we the player and Tidus are completely oblivious to this fact until the end of the 2nd act/start of the 3rd act. The few times we see Sin's destructive power we are arguably less connected to the innocent people of Spira it kills because Tidus himself also has no connection to it beyond the circle of guardians and Yuna he travels with. Tidus and the player are just travelling through learning as we go.
Perhaps Seymour could have been a more empathetic villain if Tidus got to bare witness to a loss he himself cared about beyond just the original party. Perhaps Tidus could have connected to some of the other Spira residents like more time with the Aurochs hanging out with him or a young fan of the Aurochs starts to pop up periodically.
Like, maybe as a callback to Tidus signing autographs for the kids in Zanarkand we perhaps see a young new Aurochs fan have a moment with Tidus. Perhaps the kid is being picked on or is having doubts about themselves becoming a player some day (being told they're useless and a crybaby like Tidus was by Jecht). Tidus could then have a moment with this kid where he boosts their confidence and that if they just smile and train hard they'll show those bullies that they could do anything, show him some basics for a specific shot to practice too. We then maybe see this kid survive the initial attack on the Luca Blitzball tournament and the kid shows up a few times practicing a shot that Tidus taught him. Over time we see the kid get better and better before finally finding them being killed later in the game by another Sin attack. This would help hammer into the player that death by Sin comes to everyone and maybe give the player a moment of feeling the time spent teaching this kid and giving them hope was meaningless.
Hell you could even have a moment where Seymour is perhaps present when Tidus finds the kid and makes comment about how tragic it is to make Tidus start to connect with what he said (sometime before we see him be a big bastard at Guadosalam and beyond).
That's just me though, I'm no writer or game designer but I do like thinking about what parts of the story work and what don't for different people and as players. Nice analysis, Seymour is underrated due to context for him probably not being handled the best way.
After watching this video. I realized I didn't hate Seymour because of his character. I HATED HIM BECAUSE HE JUST WOULDN'T DIE! Also I love analysis videos like these 😭🖤 Dropped a sub
great video, I was hooked right away! FFX's story is awesome, it's so psychedelic and melancholic. I loved Seymour as a character btw :)
So glad you like it. Seymour deserves more love!
This is an amazing video. I feel that Seymour is underrated. Have you played FFXIV? I'd love to hear your take on Emet-Selch and Elidibus. Arguably the best villains in whole FF franchise.
I have played FFXIV (and I'm currently replaying it over on Twitch like a madman). I'm very excited about Endwalker since it will conclude the Hydaelyn-Zodiark saga, which creates a great opportunity to analyse the game and the story so far. Would love to talk about Emet-Selch and Elidibus at some point in the hopefully not too distant future!
Absolutely fascinating. Another brilliant video!
Thanks for watching! Brilliance is a good thing to strive for. Glad we seem to be facing in the right direction at least!
Seymour is my favorite character in this game. He just seems misunderstood to me. Becoming Sin and ridding Spira of pain and suffering by killing anyone does have some morbid reasoning to it, but I think he thinks that way because of him father's treatment of him and his mother's sacrifice. He doesn't want people to suffer as he did.
Amazing Video. As always!!
Ahahaha. "So blue.. he decided to kill everyone!"
Haha, yeah. Thanks for watching the video, even though you got a little preview over on Twitch yesterday when I was trying to formulate my thoughts on the topic.
@@BirdsOfPlay Yeah! I did. Hahaha. I honestly felt like i was just repeating what I heard from Twitch. But still an amazing video overall.
I love a good villain, & boy does final fantasy have some of the BEST ones. Seymour is of course on my list!
Glad to see an often overlooked villain in your list!
I watched all his scenes earlier, on numerous occasions he reminded me of Zamasu haha. I reckon that to create Zamasu, a lot of games and other media were used and I’m thinking possibly this game, maybe, I don’t know though. It could just be coincidence as after all there are a lot of those around, they tend to happen in my story writing too. I’ll write something, that I later find out actually exists in a movie or something, it’s crazy honestly and it has happened many, many times.
Seymour and Winnie the Pooh share the same voice actor. He got his nihilism from Eeyore.
This theory is top tier!
Seymour did nothing wrong
👇🏽
I really like Seymour!
I think he's a great character!
I've known for over half my life that Seymour's mother sacrificed herself to become an aeon, but only recently have I been gathering that she's supposed to be his "final aeon." Other people have sacrificed themselves to become aeons (basically all of them, I think), but they're just regular aeons. So did Seymour and/or his mom make her his final aeon by going to Yunalesca or did she become an aeon through some other ritualistic means? She's found in the Baaj Temple and other summoners can call upon Anima's power. Also, there's the whole "summoning the final aeon is detrimental to the summoner" thing. So why have i been hearing lately that Anima is Seymour's final aeon?
Seymour just "typical Final Fantasy Villain" it's always :
-I have dark past (bullied, lost their parent, lost their hometown or kingdom, last kind of their race)
-I'm seeking revenge by destroying the world or become a God, (or Both, "Become a God and destroy the world")
Seymour wants to "Become a God" by become SIN and destroy the world as SIN, Kefka wants to destroy the world by imbalancing all the elements, Kuja wants to destroy the world because "His lifespan is limited as prototype Gnome", The Emperor (FF 2) wants to destroy the world by conquering Hell and ultimately Earth.
He's typical but the context is a bit different due to the Buddhist connotations. At least different enough to explore if the aim is to understand his character more deeply.
Eh, secrecy is like par for the course amongst any institution 5:33
Shingon Buddhism might be called openly secretive. Its secretive nature, although not wholly reflected in the church of Yevon, is somewhat embraced.
@@BirdsOfPlay yes, sorry meant to comment upon finishing, to your own point you do mention yevon as a stand in for any organization really.
No worries. Just happy you're watching this video. And thanks for commenting as well! 😁
*Unsent waiting to get into the Farplane after Yuna's final Sending*
Anima: Seymour, I am getting tired. Tell them we're going next.
Seymour: I'm not Grand Measter of the line, mother.
Anima: And you never will be!
Interesting
Glad we could offer something of interest! - Nökkvi
Rather than evil, Seymour is a fool.
I can see that, but when I began reading the sentence I thought it was going to end with "Seymour is hot".
A part of me pities Seymour and his mother. But I know it must be done.
She wanted so badly her son to live a happy life, especially since it's implied hers was ending due to her illness...
Her son would become the new "sin" if her plan worked
Its happening in 2024
Thank you. So much. Seymour helped me through my trauma while I was going through it. And I promised myself I would use his knowledge but I would never let myself get that bad because it was already showing that I could.
Tidus was an abusive narcissistic charactwr, did not shut up, and characters that weren't having it eventually caved. The audience makes up their opinion based on Tidus being too loud . And... his mother was too. Even if there is little evidence of that, I can still recognize it. I think many things in seymours timeline were left out. Only to be seen if you pay attention to background dialogue.
The fact that the children were safe with him and lived him was also something I admired, and Kinoc not only acts but looks exactly like my predator growing up.
I am very unsatisfied with the way the Narrative steered things and how people worship the other villians with love and understanding but hate him so much.
I believe if Tidus was not there we would have seen more dialgoue between the characters and seymour. And if it weren't for the tinelime loops and ripples that were created when Tidus arrived, Seymour could have been talked of his ultimate goals through proper friendships.
*out of his. Apologize for the typos I'm tired and emotional lol
I also want to add that he's showing early signs of fighting and losing the battle of deep possession from the chaotic broken Farplane that all the other Maesters surrender themselves to for eternal life.
TLDW: Yes
I appreciate the nuance 😉
CAW!!! :>
When Sin killed the kids and the grandma at Kilika I was ready to sympathize.
You’re bad at this.
Doesn't really negate my point. But stay toxic.
Btw, just realised you have Hallgrímskirkja as your profile picture. We also accept non-constructive feedback in Icelandic. Verðum í bandi.