The 5 biggest mistakes in Casting Shadows
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- Before you back Command of Nature on Kickstarter I highly recommend watching this video first!
Casting Shadows board game was a massive success on Kickstarter and is now fulfilling around the world. I had such high hopes for this to be my family board game of the year but alas it left me feeling very disappointed.
Casting shadows board game is made by the creators of Unstable Unicorns, so it has the pedigree for success. Lets look at the 5 reasons why I didn't enjoy playing Casting Shadows.
#boardgames #familyboardgames #castingshadows - เกม
simple fix for a lot of the problems : you can only die in small form, meaning when you drop to 0 in evolved form you revert back to small form with either max hp or with a percentage max hp loss every time you are reverted to small form. If you revert with full health it should also be made harder to evolve, for example you need to roll 5 shadow fragments or whatever they are called for your shadow tracker to go up by 1.
Wow I really do like this suggestion, well done indeed. There is definitely things the designer could have tried to really make the small character/shadow character a more unique and prominent mechanic 👍
My family loves this game but we did the following things to make it easier to get going and make it fun for everyone who might want to jump and and play.
1. We added the stickers to the hex tiles so we don't need the little cheat sheet anymore.
2. I got a collapsible dice box that fits the box. Everyone rolls in that box and when you are done passes to the next player.
3. Grabbed six extra numbered dice to keep track of turns. As you make moves you must decrement the die accordingly so you don't loose track.
House Rules
1. Once you get to zero health in Shadow form you revert back to regular form at 9 health. You also loose all shadow energy that you had at the time, and loose your companion card
2. You can only attack a player one time per turn. You can attack different players around the board on the same turn.
3. If you get an extra gem or orb during your turn. You can keep it in inventory for a future turn. Shadow fragments must be used on the current turn only.
4. You can only use level 2 spell cards on players in shadow form.
5. Counter spell card only cost 1 Gem and an action.
With these adjustments we find games are about an hour long for 3-4 players and you have a chance to come back if you really want to after getting knocked out.
Hey mate truly appreciate the suggestions. They sound great, I really need to give this another try again soon 👍
Do we think as a house rule its fair to "reset" your HP back to full health when you evolve / change form ?
Personally I don't think you should reset your health each time. The balancing act is finding that sweet spot for length of game. I think right now it's too short but nothing worse than a game that is too long as well. I wish the dials didn't stop at 18 HP and you had the option to play higher health for people like me who feels it's too short. I guess the problem is that everyone is different, so for others the game might be perfect as is. But in this instance I would say try different houserules and see what works best for you. All the best with it 👍
I think the only real problem is that, everyone can just target the best player
With attack spells first 😢
This is a great point and sadly this happens all the time. I get it's a battle to the end but there just has to be more strategic choices to really make this game a winner in my eyes.
The only note that made sense to me was the action tracker.
If you add more HP to the game then you run into the problem of everybody JUST wanting to collect level 3 spells, because level 1 and 2 spells would become insignificant.
Dodging your enemies’s spells is already part of the game in the form of counterspells. If you make it a basic mechanic to dodge spells then it’ll complicate the game even more and have it run for even longer.
Your base form does have a use, and that’s to collect a companion when you get 3 shadow. If you give everyone’s base form something different, then there’s the problem of meta and everyone figuring out who is the best baby version, and fighting to see who gets that one each game.
These are some well thought out answers, especially the point on the race to level 3 spells. Really appreciate your time in commenting 👍
thanks for the review.
also what's the song called on the final thoughts part.
I think the biggest issue for me is they sold this game as a "strategy" game if it was a "party" game I wouldn't have been upset because expectations.
This game *needs* house rules to have more depth but then it's not really the same game
This is so accurate, I felt that was exact premise of the kickstarter campaign - a strategic game with amazing artwork. It did incredible with the art but the gameplay fell way short. I know others disagree but I feel the same way as you.
Gonna have to disagree with his take on "Casual Players don't cate about playtime." I know several friends that won't play classics like Dominion or Root because it takes too long. Shorter attention spans are more common for younger players. 😔
This is a really good point and something I should have considered more. Different age groups for the most part are looking for different factors in their gaming experience. I'm in my 40's and perhaps what I'm looking for is very different to say teenagers for example. While I love casual games, I love them because it's quality time with my family not so much because it's my type of game. Everyone has different tastes and I do know there is an audience out there for this game.
He meant that short playtime is not the only thing that matters. It has to be fun first.
The single sheet of paper was really stupid, but at least they provided stickers and extra booklets you can print out. I created my own playmats with 1-5 and just put a dice or coin on there to represent my actions, but built-in would have been nice. I also think the board is too small, so I always play with the bigger board. The box is another thing I thought was terrible. i thought everything would fit in the playmat box, but no, you need to carry 2-3 boxes if you have figures.
Yeah I will be doing something similar for an action tracker but then I ask the question why should after I paid $150 for the deluxe version of the game. Why should I print out stickers, pages, action trackers and make up house rules. I personally think if this game did get playtested then it was by Unstable Games 'yes' people who didn't want to upset them so they could playtest the next big game. That or Unstable Games didn't listen to feedback which would be even worse.
And yes in full agreement with the box, for the deluxe version give us a single big box with everything in it
I’ve tried to play this a few times and it just never clicked. Thanks for articulating exactly what the problems were. My other complaint was the Slave for the Kickstarter Exclusive was too small and I had to rip it to get it off.
Thank you for the comment Mark. Yeah there were so many niggly issues it was super dissapointing. I played Here To Slay the other night again and it reminded me how much simpler and better this game was over this Casting Shadows overproduction
@@BangersProject Here To Slay has become a staple so I jumped at Happy Little Dinosaurs and Casting Shadows. There were some confusing things with Happy Little Dinosaurs but we figured out some house rule fixes. With Casting Shadows it really seems they’re trying to commit to one kickstarter per year and I don’t think that game was really complete when they put it out. As a result I’m not backing Controlling Nature.
I also didn't back their latest KS, I got burned once. This time I will wait for other people's reviews
I was looking forward to this game, but I might stick with Here to Slay :)
Haha great choice mate, Here to Slay is definitely way better in my opinion!
But look if you eventually find this cheap in retail it's still worth trying as for some people it could still be a good game.
Couldn’t agree with you more about all of your points. I ended up house ruling it to at least make it a fun game for a solo or 3 player game
Yup that's it, houserule it to get some fun out of it. It's sad we need to do that but it's wasted in its current form
How do I get my hands on the printout thingy?
I just woke up but will find the link for you today. It was on Unstable Games website from memory. I originally found it as a comment on the kickstarter comments page
I realised I got this wrong, it's actually fanmade not from Unstable Games. So obviously I gave Unstable Games credit when it should have gone to a member of the community Matt Weist. Sorry Matt 👍
unstablegameswiki.com/images/b/b1/HexTileStickers.png
Oh dear, they really delivered a sub par gameplay versus one that looks amazing. I too got pulled in and had high hopes for a fantastic family game. At this stage I haven't even opened it as its a birthday present but hopefully with some house rules it'll become a fun game for my kids in the same realms of their other title Exploding Kittens and Here to Slay (didn't like Unstable Unicorns).
Biggest red flag that I in the end ignored was that Unstable Games was quoted as saying they had no physical copies in which they could share to previewers/reviewers. In this age thats a big concern however the marketing pitch and hope for a decent game got me in the end.
Hey mate your last comment is 100% the truth, I will not trust games anymore unless they have previews out. Previewers will still hype it, but you can at least see how it plays and make your own mind up. This is the gamble with Kickstarter/Gamefound, but to be honest it's the first time I have truly felt let down by a produced KS like this.
I'm so upset about the Kickstarter bonuses. I missed the backing period, and now I cannot get any of these nice addons (including two character who are permanently gone). I ended up not buying the game at all because of that. I wish you could buy the kickstarter bonuses as well.
I have started seeing some copies being sold locally, I honestly think that's your best bet and hope they are selling the extras. They sold heaps in the kickstarter so surely some of these will hit 2nd hand market
They will sell a vinyl figure pack with all characters (including the new molten rick expantion). Now im not sure about the character sheets but they probably will be added too. Looks like it was mostly a 1 year exclusivity deal
Can you share your house rules when you have them? This delivered but I've been away for a month and a half and wont be home for a few more weeks. I haven't even started but I'm hearing various reviews that all say the same thing. Sounds like they really dropped the ball. That's so disappointing! I wonder if with the cool components, can house rule a new, more fun game out of it?
I'm still thinking about this one. I really want to turn it into a worker movement game with different resources or awards on the hexes. It forces you to move around more and collect resources on different hexes as opposed to rolling dice. Will add some more strategy and give you purpose to move around the world. Even something simple like if you land on a hex with another player then you pay them a resource. I have a few ideas but need to test them.
But for now the idea I want to try is that you can only attack while you are in shadow character form. Once you have converted to your shadow self and have maxed out your shadow fragments (5) then you revert back to your former cute starting character and can't attack again till you have transformed back into your shadow character. Will give the whole starting/shadow characters actual purpose.
@@BangersProject I actually like this idea a lot, what about companions? Are you suppose to get a new companion each time you evolve, or is it suppose to stack😊
@MrGetPlayed It's a very fair question, as it currently stands you get 1 companion for the entire game. Perhaps you have the option to replace the original companion once you transform again but it costs an action to do so. By playing my new way the games will be longer and there may be strategic advantages to replacing your companion. Haha these are all just ideas in my crazy mind but im getting more excited to test them 😄
@@BangersProject do you think it should take 5 shadow points to transform, and 3 points to use the ability? Rather than the current system?
@@BangersProject also another quick question, when you say the shadow character transforms back after reaching 5 fragments, does that mean you are forced to use the shadow ability the moment it hit 5, or you get a 2-3 turns before you either use the ability and reverts back, or simply jsut revert back
What do you think about the game for 2 players? i just got it cause it was very cute, but realistically it will only be me and my girlfriend playing
Sadly I felt this game is strongest at higher player counts. I did not enjoy it at 2 players I'm sorry. Hopefully you get more fun out of it at 2 players but if you do get some more friends over I think it will be a better experience.
My girlfriend and I have been disappointed by 2 player play as well. I’m hoping it’ll be better playing with more people.
Casting shadows has come to retail and I got excited. But maaan these reviews just make me so sad. I love beautiful games, it is just sooo important to me. Like for me when game is ugly, I am not very interested in it. And this looks so good. But these are just simple things to make right. There is plenty awesome board games these days. With beautiful mechanics. And from those review I got this feeling that someone just had very good idea (we all can see it ..) And stopped there... what happened? Even people in the comment section here came up with these awesome house rules... :D And for you who say "house rules can make this right" ... I don't think this is something that should happen. Game is supposed to be ready and tested properly. It would be good step for developers to listen and make some changes and come up with something. We are not paying money for just minis and artwork.. Is there anyone who enjoyed the game? And love to play it again and again? Please tell me, I would love to at least try this game :) ...
Jakub what a really well thought out comment. I think you nailed it, there is just so many awesome board games out there nowadays. The game mechanics need to support and enhance this incredible artwork. The artwork is truly 10/10, it broke me that nothing else really worked for me outside of the amazing art. I will say this but the game will have people still enjoy it (there is a game style for everyone) but because I play so many games I hold these games to a high benchmark and unfortunately it fell short for me. I am just one person and my tastes are not the same as everyone else's so it's at least worth trying if you get a chance.
I just played with some friends and instantly noticed the issues you mentioned. Are any board games similar to this that you recommend? What really caught our attention was the spells/evolution/battle/fantasy aspect of it. It is like a videogame. And that it is not too long.
Yeah this game is very much dividing people - some love it and others are dissapointed like myself. It's not as light but I completely recommend Dwellings of Eldervale as it has all these elements in a truly epic game. Try and find a video and see if it's something you would enjoy.
@@BangersProject Yeah, the game has so much potential but with critical drawbacks. I will check the game you recommended, thanks!
I bought the ultimate collectors set and just unboxed everything. Honestly I'm a bit disappointed, the playmats are oversaterated. The tiles are undersaturated some of the Vinyl figured feel really disproportionate. The box insert was damaged for the exclusive edition and the ultimate box that holds the playmat I feel is a joke. The containers for that box make no sense on how to properly hold everything. There are no places for the your characters or the hex tiles no foam inserts and no proper slots for the cards to be held. I was super stoked for the ultimate box too. Really I'm disappointed.
I also had a damaged insert in my box, it's like they used the cheapest plastic possible. Also you are spot on with the weird design of the insert. The insert just feels rushed with minimal thought on where things go. The acrylic pieces are just chucked in anywhere and it was just a very underwhelming production. I know some people here are really passionate and tried to defend its production but there are so many games out there that put this 'exclusive deluxe' edition to shame.
I think in the base game the dragon is very unbalanced, espacially if compared to the wolf and the fox. The fox damage output is too little, especially if you play in less than 4 people. The wolf skill is instead strong but very gimmicky, and if you happen to be in late game, you probably can't spend 4 health
Really great points thank you 👍 It's been a while since I got this to the table. I am getting Command of Nature soon, I'm really hoping this next game is more playtested and better balanced.
Well i wait for second editon then
Very much a wise choice. I would hope they take this feedback on board and make some changes. It just is a shame that the people who supported them from the outset get shafted
@@BangersProject yeah :) am glad i saw the this beofre getting it :) thx
@@BangersProject How did you get shafted? You got exactly what they were selling...
@Brandon Herrin It's always the case of any 2.0 version shafting the original backers because their version is simply not as good. In saying all this, I don't for a second expect them to change anything, I'm sure they are very happy with the game they released. My disappointment lies around how much potential I saw in this product, and for me it did not live up to that great potential.
This all comes in exclusive ?
Yeah this was in my Kickstarter bundle but I believe there was other stuff I could have gotten including all the creature minis. But I am glad I got the clear resin characters, as these do look great 👍 Standard version I believe just comes with wooden meeples.
As a deluxe here to slay backer I have the same dice tower. It is brilliant if them to create such an item and just takes a few seconds. Don’t be that lazy, that would take tooooo much space in the board as they had problems with the space as is. The rest I agree.
My example here is Wingspan, that dice tower is bigger and fits just fine in the box completed. Merchants Cove is another one that creates space for the items you need to make. There is probably lots of games like this, where they allocate space. It was my number 6 complaint because as you said it's certainly not a deal breaker, it is definitely lazy on my behalf but I really don't want to dismantle each time. So for now it will stay out of the box and perhaps I can use it for different games. Also Here to Slay was such a fun game, I wish I got the deluxe 👍
I agree on the action tracker thing. I’ve been playing Here To Slay and always can never track how many action points I had left.
It's such a simple thing but I was the same. When the actions are so varied it's incredibly easy to lose count. This should be a staple in all their games
So from this i got that mostly is just some annoying quality of life things that I didn't really notice while playing, so add a action tracker dice, add some more starting health and u got a solid game.
I wouldn't say solid just yet for me but it's definitely a good starting point 👍 This is just me but I truly think they could do so much more with the starting character and the shadow character. Tweak this and I think we are now in the solid category.
This company is notorious for lack of playtesting. It's still a fun game, but the little flaws stick out once you notice them.
I totally agree. I have 2 more issues with this game, and I have played it more times since but my opinion is the same, both issues are about the "strategy" nomination:
- the resources make the game so narrow you will collect cards what you can and not what you want, same for casting. Reroll is good on paper but usually it's not worth the action point, and conversion cards are also conditional (convert 1 Blue orb to 1 Red orb) usually you don't have the good opportunity to use it effectively. Most of the time it's not worth to collect them.
- Counterspells are repetitive and they don't have big effects on the game. Even if your opponent have 3, you can attack them with laugh or cold-blood because you have nothing to fear.
I was hyped not only because of the art, I got hype also reading the rulebook, on paper this could be a really good strategy game... It's time to create house rules.
I've only met 1 game so far that was a let down like this at the actual gameplay after reading the rulebook... Tidal Blades why do you show us so much options to play if only 1 way is viable to get some points???
Mate firstly I have to say thank you. You eloquently explained some more gripes I had but did it in a better way then I ever could. There were cards that felt like a waste, a great game makes you feel like you NEED every card because they are amazing, and this game is not that. As I keep saying it just didn't feel playtested. I was going to spend some time house ruling this but never got the time to fully flesh out my ideas. Hopefully you can find a way to make this game work.
Interesting about Tidal Blades, I haven't played it but was super keen. Now I'm a bit hesitant after reading that.
@@BangersProject Thank you. Yeah I also feel that every card and mechanic need to be useful in games, these things maintain the interest, the versatility and the balance of the game. House ruling in this case means rewriting some cards effects first of all... it's needed to make balance here unfortunately.
Tidal Blades is not in this level of letdown... I've only tested a several times and only 2 players yet (there is a rival), it could be a really good game, it's interesting, at first sight you can do whatever you want: do challenges, fight monsters, upgrade different attributes with different effects, you can go for your character's cards for passive "skills", etc.... but similarly to CS you can't do what you want, the game forces you to do what you must with the rival and the monster fights. If you're lucky you can have some choice, but the game feels too... short, you can't unfold your character or build a viable mechanism or tactic especially when the game forces you to spend an action for something you didn't intend. If the monsters didn't "eat" your dice, then they're exhausted, if you have dice then you don't have shells, if you have it you don't have fruits when you need, or when you collect all of them then the game ends.It seems they made more playtest with it compared to CS, so if you're interested it's worth the try.
I think Tidal Blades will either play someone else's copy or if I see it cheap 2nd hand. Really do appreciate your thoughts on this.
Talking about Tidal Blades, I am intrigued by the RPG Campaign style they went to in Tidal Blades 2 Rise of the Unfolders. It was a bold move to completely change the style of games but keep it chronological in the Tidal Blades universe. This I want to try more than the original game
Except the hex tile issue, the rest of them didn’t bother me at all tbh.
Hey Alex, I missed a whole bunch of messages due to not receiving notifications. Yeah as always these gripes are always individual tastes. Casting Shadows left a very sour taste in my mouth and as you can tell from the video I was pretty underwhelmed. But for others they love it and that is awesome. It's the beauty of board games really, they cater for all tastes
I am only just getting into board games, with this being my second. I got this game last week and have so far played only one round with my little brother. It seems our game was particularly different compared to the experience others have had for some unique reasons.
To preface this game, it was 1v1, advertised to be a 30-60 minute game. We started just before 4:00pm and ended just after 8:30pm. Something went very wrong, clearly.
First issue: this is fundamentally a chance based party game in terms of gameplay, so giving unique abilities to the different characters (that we weren’t aware of) was game breaking. I played as the axolotl while my brother was the fox. Every 5 shadow energy, I could heal 5HP. Every 3 shadow energy, he could attack for 1HP. If even ONE shadow form ability is stronger than another characters, this creates an unfair advantage in an otherwise majorly chance based game. Terrible game design from the concept up imo.
Second issue: the amount of healing given vs the amount of damage output was just broken regarding the centre hex tile and the attack spells we were getting and the amount of damage dealt by my companion card. The large majority of the game, as in up until the final half 15ish minutes, we were both within 1-3HP from full health, and anytime I got low I was able to use my shadow ability. My companion card was the tortoise which deals 1 damage to any player on the same hex tile I end my turn on. When the centre tile heals for 2, and my companions entire gimmick is dealing 1 damage, this just poorly designed, especially with no way to re-roll or change which companion I had.
Third issue: my brother and I found ourselves in a situation where we could heal up any amount of damage done to each other within a round or two, leaving us needing to spend the time we did to try and build up enough attack spells to just burn through either my shadow ability or his counter spells. The amount of free healing given from the centre piece alone in a 1v1 was just broken with how poor our luck was with the level 2 and 3 attack spells hiding at the bottom of the card pile.
My house rule ideas scale with how many players are alive. Firstly, all shadow form abilities are gone. Pick which character you want based on the appearance you like most, then from round one anyone can step onto any of the hex tiles to get whatever abilities they want anyways, so that’s balanced in my eyes in terms of character based hex tiles. Once you are in your shadow form, set your shadow crystal count to 5, which now acts as your shadow form health. The main appeal of shadow forms are the fact that you can have a companion card, which is accessing the same deck for, therefore it’s effectively as balanced as the spell cards are given everyone can access everything from the same shared decks. With shadow form HP, rolling a shadow fragment now acts like a cursed crystal but for your shadow energy instead of health. You can choose to use protect similarly to cursed crystals, however this may churn through your actions much faster, with the idea being to have to swap through your companion card many times throughout the game.
When in a 1v1, the centre hex tile only heals for 1 HP when you start your round on it, instead of 2. All players can only have one counterspell card at a time. And I should also be entitled to a refund.
This is an absolutely amazing comment. I truly did enjoy hearing about your experience. Massive thank you 👍
I recently opened my version of the Kickstarter and all of the acrylic figures are damaged. I am sooo disappointed that this is what I paid for.
Just make sure it's not the plastic wrap on the acrylic. This caught me out as it doesn't look like there is any plastic on them. If they are damaged though that is truly dissapointing
Where’s a hex tile sheet?
I need one but can’t find something online!!!!
I found one after searching forever
Hey Matt, I will need to look for it. I downloaded it at the time and pretty sure I found it linked on the KS comments at the time. Have you checked BGG linked files at all?
2:17 I completely agree, a sad con of the games design
I hated casting shadows. Battle royales are so rng.
It could be so much more, great theme, great art but just not the gameplay for my taste.
This wasn't a review...reviews cover every aspect of the gameplay, you didn't do that. I think you're right about the game not coming with a way to track actions...but it's not a deal for me since I am not a casual gamer and have a big assortment of trackers at my disposal. Literally took me less than a minute to grab a couple of options for the table when we played.
The rest of your points I disagree with.
I don't know what kind of game you usually play, but this is a strategy game. If you're playing with experienced gamers, you'll find that you need some thinking to get a win. The damage the spells deal is what keeps the game from going on for hours. And for the record, this isn't for Unstable Unicorns players, this is for the Here to Slay players.
I don't care the take the dice tower apart each time. I don't know why you're that lazy, but I prefer the size of the box and can only imagine the extra six inches to make it fit assembled.
The fact you said you "race to get to shadow form" helps explain why you think there is no strategy here. You shouldn't be playing it that way...
We had zero issues passing the sheet of bonuses around the table. We were taught to share, and enjoy a group experience...
Maybe you need new people to play with. Our first playthrough at the local game shop, we had a dozen people asking where they can get a copy. That sure seems like "hooking people into the hobby" to me.
There was a how to play video out before the campaign ended. You should have watched it before you threw your money at it. Then you wouldn't have been as disappointed maybe.
Just because one game did something, it does not obligate other games to do it too. Example, making the dice tower fit in the box assembled. Personally, I'd rather have the smaller box than a large one just to make it fit.
Anyway, not hating on you. Sharing my differing opinion. This game obviously isn't for you and you bought it based on the art. It looks like every other Tee Turtle game made. I bought it after seeing the info about how it plays and watching the How to Play video that was floating around. This game fits for casual gamers, it's not complicated, but those who are hobbyist will definitely have an advantage.
Hey mate really appreciate your time with this comment. You raise some really solid points. The only thing I will say is that it was never meant to be a review. I planned on reviewing it before it arrived but after playing it at multiple player counts I just knew that I could not review this in my usual style. You are spot on that this game is not for me, but in all honesty I have not hated a game like this in such a long time. I like Unstable Unicorns, I love Here To Slay, I play lots of family games, I play lots of family weight euros, basically I play lots of different types of games and I have not felt like this about a game for such a long time. I guess some people will just assume I'm hating to get views, that's not me mate, check out my collection of videos and I reckon over 95% are positive. I legit feel this game has some of the laziest design I had seen for a while. I'm super wrapped you enjoyed it, like I said at the start there is definitely an audience for this, but that audience unfortunately doesn't include me in its current form.
It's not a review, sure, but he is spot on. It may not bother you and that's good, but they still are problems.