Something I would argue, power creep might not be as much of an issue in the new campaign, as craft are tied to resource cost the megalodon might not even spawn in game, and if it does only once. It will probably feel like the final boss of the SS, if not the game as your entire fleet moves in to kill it.
Very true. Not something you'll see often, hopefully. Although the firepower/cost ratio had it spawning in at regular difficulty before it was fixed, so... 😁
Oh, and a shadow change in that update is massive overhauls to all the LH craft I entered. The Exadyne, Angstrom, and Exajoule are all now buffed in strength and capability, cheaper, smaller in block count, and significantly better aesthetically and interior wise. All of them have more potent lasers, especially the Angstrom (yes, even the exajoule, to the extent to which it Is technically better than the Candela, though it is MUCH less alpha damage based, as that is the Candela's shtick, so now it has a much better standard DPS). So, with the Candela, as long as you can survive its first few seconds, the Candela's laser becomes rather weak, and the Candela is also designed to be a glass cannon, so get a few heavy HE explosions in there and you will yeet it. And as for the Megalodon, its counter is 70-ish ms airships, most people who have beaten it with craft of the half the cost do so with such craft.
also as her creator; i can guarantee that due to the s*tload of ecm thats on the candela; you should just spam missiles that are fast edit: in a submarine that preferably stays below 50m lol
These are the kind of crafts that make you feel good about cheesing it out with subs. Also, that Candela is going to fly real high when it inevitably runs into land. Just engage it close to shore and watch it kill itself. _Then_ you collect the free resources.
@@BorderWise12 The Terawatt was the easiest craft to own in my last playthrough. :) The fliers, tough? Soooo tedious to bring down with missiles, especially when you damage them a tiny bit and they go to space. The cheesiest faction (IMO) deserves to be cheesed out of existence. The subs tasked with cleaning out that particular area of the map (~200k in materials each, never used anywhere else, 'cause cheese) were called _Heatsink_ and _Absolute Zero._ I think the names were the best part about them. XD
I cheese all facs I mean if your bad like me then you can just sink to the bottom of the see build a block of heavy armor and build single blocks with nukes using the tab thing
Look in the center of the bridge of the Megalodon and you can see Jeffery Obertson sitting on his chair like he called his bigger brother to curb stomp a hard level on a video game for him
I like these, I've felt for a long time that the community has out grown the vanilla vehicles and that they should revamp all the factions. Not quite what I wanted but I like the new editions
You just gave me the best image. A big fat Onyx Watch space ship that charges when it's health drops below a certain amount i.e. falls on you at terminal velocity.
Something Bigger than a Great white, just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water! Really looking forwards to seeing this thing in the game when the update goes live!
I was testing my battleship in the devtest, modifying it and such, tested it against this and got absolutely wrecked. To be fair, this costs 800k more than mine. But it wound up mostly being because I lacked torpedo defense. I added that, and found that I could destroy it just barely. The reason is that the main guns cost like 250k each, so most of the expense is there, and railguns are really only so good. It's CIWS is expensive and mostly useless as all freely rotating CIWS are. It does have an excellent lams system, but it's set to shoot down missiles, so it can be overwhelmed with small missile spam, allowing crams to get through. So basically, missile spam and crams will kill it just fine.
I don't know whether building big is really going to be the ultimate solution to beating the Megalodon. Its seemingly enormous damage output means that you would need disproportionately expensive levels of armour, which is doable but sucks, I agree with you. Maybe a swarm of small and especially very evasive fliers or hydrofoil attack craft could stand a better chance. Then again they need to pack enough punch to get through the Megalodon's active and passive defence. As for the Candela, well... I've got as many answers as there are hard counters to big laser damage. I say all in all despite the obvious powercreep, that's going to be a fun challenge and a breath of fresh air in the end game. I hope more crazy crafts like these two follow suit for each faction, like you said as bosses of some sort. The bosses of old have been outclassed and the game engine runs as good as ever, I think it's prime time for larger, meaner enemies. 20:30 Are laser absorbing shields even a thing anymore?!
laser absorbing shields are a thing, but they only decrease AP not damage. And strength 10 shielding will only decrease candela's ap to ~64.8, which is almost enough to destroy HA without damage waste.
she used to full-counter laser shielding with a 280AP laser, but i decided i wanted more laser memeyness, aka that massive initial burst that takes out 10% of the singularity lol
As someone who did some, (Emphasis on some it's changed a decentish amount since i worked on it), work on the Candella it's a complete glass cannon but it's got massive charge capacity, (not sure if it still has a regulator on there), and the AP is over 200. You basically need stacked smoke and laser shields to handle it. Preferably with heavy armour for it to smack into after all that. However that AP accounts for a huge chunk of it's cost. Somewhere in there there is a Carl was here sign that it's creator put in to acknowledge the work i did. Also complete glass cannon, the bulk of the guts has a single layer of metal between it and the outside world.
Aha, but you forget the most historic armour of LH craft, fuel boxes. It has like 3 layers of fuel boxes on top of the 1 metal around the laser, which is depressingly significant
@@placeholder3907 Not sure if they're the ones i put down, (haven;t looked inside it since the version that left my hands), but if so, your welcome. :P
I'm all for more challenge and more variety in general being added. Still waiting for this update until I continue / start a new campaign. The new blocks on their own are a big reason I'm waiting to really start building anything new. Seriously this ship is beautiful, looks painfully horrible to take on, and honestly it forces you to make a ship or ships to help deal with it and I love that. It is amazingly fun not to have one big ship that just counters everything somehow. I love having an RTS where you as the player have to make the unit to help deal with another unit on the enemy faction's side while still being able to make and use every single other unit you've made up to that point. Scary dangerous ships of any size are like raid bosses when they pop up and it is so satisfying to take them down.
its always so interesting to come again to older videos like this and see how crafts changed over time, had completelly forgotten that the Meg had simple weapons rather than PACs for its secondary guns. Makes me wonder if anyone ever tried keeping a collection of older models of crafts saved.
if we don't make the Micronova able to take out a Megalodon turret in one go I will be forced into suicide out of shame of failing at a decent airframe
Don't worry, from some tweaking I can get even just a large missile to take out a meg turret. They're only metal ha. We do need some dud flingers though. Those LAMS are not fun to deal with.
How do you not have more subscribers? You offer the most comprehensive coverage of any TH-camr I have seen on this game. Your guides have helped me so much. Keep up the amazing work.
i liked this and would watch more of these little fun things even just the whole fighting the godlys against things and talking about their various abilities and strengths its cool thanks for making from the depths vids
I am so gonna cry because my PC won't be able to handle a sizeable battle with this THING in it ;-; I mean, it barely deals with one 100k volume ship that costs half of the Megalodon, what about this, and the fleet I'll have to design to kill it...
yes. also spacecraft yeet the meg without taking damage. Lambda, my current personal project can do that very thing. (warp is amazing lol) It is very much a hard-counter since the main railguns can't aim up ya know
Also after looking at the Contingency, its less a space battleship and more a planetary assault bombardment craft. It only has the missiles able to shoot up, and going 110m/sec can let you outmaneuver the missiles. It has a PAC in front and a small laser broadside, but combined with the paper armor it seems like it's not meant for frontline or 1v1 combat.
"...hiding underwater..." The shells have supercavitation bases. With no penalty to their damage, because they are kinetic. 500mm hollow point rail guns were the first thing I tried when the APS update hit. The only counter besides stealth are lots of ring shields and an outer layer of heavy armor, just to raise the armor value high enough so the shells dont delete your armor (Armor stacking does not count for thump damage).
Just looking back at this video, man such innocent times! All of these craft have received massive upgrades. The way I beat them is with massive PAC with lense shutter, and 200ap lasers. Missile defense doesn't help when you don't use missiles =p
Miss the old secondaries on the Megalodon. The particle cannons are arguably more effective, but the twin casemate turrets on another turret had a neat aesthetic.
I think that for a more fair comparison, you should match a roughly equal amount of building resource worth of ships; for example, if you have a 1.5M ship, it should face 3 500K ships, or 15 100K planes. Also, they should be spawned very far away from each other.
@@BorderWise12 By "far" I mean "outside weapon range", so that both of the ships have time to deploy every measure they have and reach cruise speed. This way you could also see and take into account possible difference in weapon and detection ranges. Edit: I understood what you meant when you said you don't have a 1.5M ship
Borderwise you should also try 500mm 8m Pure Railgun Pen-depth, I have experimented with them, and boy are they scary. Great at blowing up the interior important parts of ships. Also as a laptop player, I really hope it doesn't explode when it meets some of these things.
candela is immune to sonar, too fast for medium velocity APS, and has a monster lams for missiles. sit back 3km and wait for it to run out of juice? sacrifice a few 100k armoured craft? both worked on the singularity (although it wasn't the plan when fighting it...) my favorite counter to lasers is semi-subs (again not planned... the ships performed better 1/2 dead...). can probably set a acb to a behavior and PID for hull underwater modes. but that's for smart people that can cook bread
candela originally didn't have lams. The person who i gave the BP to for aesthetic finalizations added it for lols. As a creator, i intended for people to yeet it with fast missiles dedicated to range over damage, since most things miss, due to her 40k power ecm.
i do that with almost all my ships , but not intentionally There's two edges on redundancy as a concept applied here #1 say your ship takes a few critical hits ... with good redundancy , it can stay afloat and win #2 say your ship takes a few critical hits ... but it it way outmatched Having redundancy now , only keeps it afloat to be a punching bag , losing you a ton of material In this case , you're better off letting it sink, significantly reducing the damage it takes. You want your ships to stay in the fight if you're using 1-2 monster ships If you're using more but weaker craft , you want to cut down on that "stay afloat" redundancy for them to survive more An example would be #1 I use a huge battleship , it takes a few critical hits but nothing too severe...i want this to stay in the fight because it's so powerful it's going to win #2 I use a small fleet of say 2-3 cruisers , a small number of cheaper escorts and stuff like this If one of those gets focused down and takes massive hits really fast , i want them to take a dive This way they can still plink at the enemy fleet if they have supercavitating rounds and torpedos , without taking more of a beating Sure you lose some firepower , but that's better than losing entire ships
@@chimaera1195 if it's propulsion only works above water, a harpoon sub would utterly dominate it. looking at the cram kills; the lams overkill and must drain a lot of energy, so i'm guessing missiles are even more effective, being both offensive and defensively draining the energy for the main lasers.
I see two potential solutions to the Megalodon. I haven't noticed any advanced cannons on the craft, so kamikaze crafts like the Martyr could prove effective, if you have enough of them. Second, it seems that by way of spinblocks, rams might even be effective, considering they only are countered by ridiculous amounts of armor. In short, the White Flayers counter this ship.
Candela is the one that scares me. I use altitude, speed, and ecm for defense so the megalodon doesnt scare me. Lasers that instantly saw hole into critical systems do. Also.... lasers work fine against subs when you got giant noodle barrel for 2km damage. Just dont forget sonar bouy if needed.
I have built a battleship 'Abomination' with ten aps 500mm turrets with huge hesh that means seven turrets on the side will full on broadside with full firepower but still the Megalodon managed to survive my full voley on that thing
Now someone can correct me if I am wrong. But these ships are basically intended to be literal 1 offs per faction. A boss fight for each faction if you will (wonder how difficulty settings would change that). The capital ship of their fleet. So imagine it similar to the enemy HQ- there's only one of them.
@@BorderWise12 Yep, these bosses would serve as the faction's HQ's last line of defense, so this means you have to destroy them first before you can take out their HQ.
Oh cool. More things I need to build things specifically to hard counter. Going to be honest, do people actually like this sort of thing? I mean yeah, I could build something to beat these. But it wouldn't be something I'd want to take into a campaign. It'd be stupid expensive and trivialize everything else. Never mind the amount of time just to build the thing. So I just wouldn't want to do it. Great for anyone with the patience, but I just don't have it.
The Megalodon would eat his most recent battleship alive. Which would motivate him to build something even bigger and more Mc-Walrusy, but that's beside the point.
Legit question: How do the devs actually want the players act to deal with these things when the players are naturally at a massive disadvantage because they have to both contend with local resources *and* limited resources? Really, I'd love them to answer that question. These designs only operate because there's no resource limit for such craft. Not so for player craft.
Good questions! Here are my best answers: 1. They do have a resource limit, and the AI is also limited by local resources in the new campaign format. 2. These craft will be very, very rare. Most players won't see them unless they play exceptionally well. 3. There are ways to counter them, which the KOTLs have obligingly shared with me: - Candela: it runs out of juice quickly and can't attack submarines well at all. Large APN missiles can break through its LAMS and catch up to it too. - Megalodon: lousy AA and it apparently gets wrecked by fast orbiting airships. Spamming wee dodgy PAC bombers at it would likely work well too.
kotl here. every craft is built within counterable restrictions, majyst is highly against having a master of all craft as well as spamming well optimized ships. he wants the campaign to be fun and enjoyable so if these new ships are too strong they will get nerfed. if you try hard enough eventually you'll discover how to counter every faction regardless of size, the Megalodon is bad against aircraft much like the majority of other SS ships built for the same role. lh however, I don't know. majyst asked for high pen lasers and the community builders who took up the task went above and beyond the expected damage with Candela arguably being the strongest laser craft in the campaign since the builder made it stronger than the Abyss, I personally don't like it because lasers don't have enough high end counters (buff smoke pls) but for now the builders did their job in building these crafts and updates in the future should fix them.
The player also doesn’t have to be fair. There’s nothing stopping you from making your own bigger, badder laser whale of death. There’s nothing stopping you from plopping a couple railguns on a stick and sniping from 5 km. There is something stopping the factions from having those, and his name is majyst.
Also as someone who has dissected the candela a bit, it, alongside the rest of the lightning hoods, dies to about half a hesh shell. Heat works too. Just shoot it with fast heat shells or heat missiles and watch it bleed
Not sure how well they would work against the Megalodon's missiles, but the contingency has not active missile defense. Wonder how well a spacecraft with lasers and harpoon flare/jammer missiles would do against it.
Oh ya, this reminds me that I actually do have to make a dreadnaught at some point and stop relying on just a bunch of small craft.... the Twin Guard approach can only get me so far...
Eh... don't feel too pressured to make giant stuff. You can get through a lot of Neter with just small to medium sized craft, if you design them well and play to their strengths.
@@BorderWise12 Ya, problem is im reletively new to the game so designing them well is a bit hard, and I need something that can tank hits because I cant afford to lose 2-3 boats in every single fight. their like 57000 materials for only a small volume, they can handle Onyx watch and Deep water guard stuff wine with missiles and the occasional Advanced cannon shot if they get too close, but I need a larger ship that can actually take like, for example a particle cannon shot without immediately disintegrating.
If you struggle check which your craft can fit 13x13 turret of heigh around 10 then retrofit to have tripple 500mm 15rpm+ 30k raildraw APHE (ap, solid, solid, solid, he, he, pendepth), it's a dedicated drednought killer tho, as it seriously overpens if you set it to 8m depth but that's kinda needed to deal with 30k+ crafts I don't watch your videos often tho so dunno what's your style, if you don't like tripple turrets then just... take the notes and do it on your own I guess? it's simple somewhat simple recipe I think
With the candella, I'd say you just want some extra high velocity high caliber HESH rounds, so probably a railgun since it can outpace your average APS shells, run rounds around any CRAM ship and ignore missiles that can't keep up with it, so large chemical railguns or lasers, and with the singularity, it's the same but with the nuance that it can warpdrive dodge your APS and missiles so lasers are actualy probably your better option xD
@@BorderWise12 i'm sorry about that; i still don't think neekap should've added lams, but, she has an acb to turn off offense when enough missiles are present that Neekap added. So an overwhelming force of missiles will shut down candela's lams, providing you with a window of opportunity for a submarine to surface and use cannons to take her down.
I made a 500mm kinetic APS rail assisted gun with 2x 55 rpm that can barely penetrate the megalodon from side to side when it hits the front it reaches the first turret sometimes. I'm putting it in a ship that I'm building which is heavily inspired by the threshershark because it's my favourite ship. Hoping it turns out to be less than a million and my first megalodon killer. The gun has so much recoil that a custom jet engine need to output about 100k thrust to combat its recoil when I mounted it on a hovercraft. Update: the frontal hovercraft works perfectly and costs exactly 1 million I made sure by adding some wood. There is only one problem which makes the design fail and I don't know how to fix it. The megalodon keeps sniping the barrels off but they are already heavy barrels and making a lams strong enough to catch all megalodon projectiles will cost 500000 or something itself way too expensive atleast. It gets the megalodon about half dead. Anybody knows how to reinforce barrels please tell me it's the only thing holding my flying threshershark back 🙂.
So I decided to pit my unfinished-but-generally-terrifying 800k monstrosity against both of these ships, hoping to salvage some sort of pride in my creation, and...yeah no. They murder it to death. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.
Even a submarine wouldn't work too well against the Megalodon, given that its guns use the supercavitation base too, and I'd bet it has loads of torpedoes as well.
@@Ivy_TSG If you manage to dodge (via warping maybe) or survive a few hits from those railguns, a sub that outspeeds the Megaladon would probably be the best vehicle to beat the Megalodon still, by staying so close to directly underneath that the guns cannot depress far enough to aim at it - maybe even get directly underneath and use a melee PAC or just spinblock rams to murder it.
I'm at 11:42 in the video and you mentioned how smoke doesn't seem to work against strong lasers, aren't there also shields you can use to absorb lasers as well? Let's double it up!
@@BorderWise12 I've spent the night throwing all of my designs at the megalodon. After spending maybe 3-4 mil resources, it was finally classed as too damaged. If you can't take out those railguns early on in a fight, or give them something to focus on, they'll destroy everything. Also, it's munition defense is the closest I've seen to being completely unbeatable. It took hundreds of small missiles (in swarms) before it finally seemed to run out of energy. The megalodon is easily the scariest design ive seen in FTD.
LAMS cannot kill pure kinetic shells, so throwing a cram shell with no pellets will drain them real quick. Large missiles with all reinforced bodies will also give LAMS a bad day. Alternatively, a lot of APS shells can go too fast for LAMS to detect and destroy.
Based on the fight with the carrier I think megalodon might have issues with ICBMs. It does not deal well with swarms and ICBMs ignored by the near prefect LAM system. If ICBM are too cheesy perhaps hordes of micro ram ships.
I actually tried that. The CIWS on the back might not have a seperate AI controlling it, but it has range limits on the LWC set up so it can shoot down ICBMs easily. Now a simultaneous ICBM and missiles swarm might be a different story...
that moment when a campagin craft can defeat even your PC
Still likely to run better than much smaller craft did a few years back, especially with multiple units battling it thanks to multicore.
@@_tyrannus true
campagin? more like camPAIN
Campagin lol
"...What d'you mean"there is a guy in a robot suite who's storming our territory with a fleet of super dreadnoughts twice the size of our own?"
lmao
Lmao
Looks away from my 385 meter super battleship...
My battle ships cost 3x as much and they still suck
@@therealgaben5527
at least you have ships
Шпрот Lol robbaz
I guess Nick didn’t like people calling the campaign easy.
nick took it as a challenge
Holy shit im scared already and im on stable branch
this thing is easy.. build a sub and voila..
it's actually camPAIN
Something I would argue, power creep might not be as much of an issue in the new campaign, as craft are tied to resource cost the megalodon might not even spawn in game, and if it does only once. It will probably feel like the final boss of the SS, if not the game as your entire fleet moves in to kill it.
Very true. Not something you'll see often, hopefully.
Although the firepower/cost ratio had it spawning in at regular difficulty before it was fixed, so... 😁
Oh, and a shadow change in that update is massive overhauls to all the LH craft I entered. The Exadyne, Angstrom, and Exajoule are all now buffed in strength and capability, cheaper, smaller in block count, and significantly better aesthetically and interior wise. All of them have more potent lasers, especially the Angstrom (yes, even the exajoule, to the extent to which it Is technically better than the Candela, though it is MUCH less alpha damage based, as that is the Candela's shtick, so now it has a much better standard DPS). So, with the Candela, as long as you can survive its first few seconds, the Candela's laser becomes rather weak, and the Candela is also designed to be a glass cannon, so get a few heavy HE explosions in there and you will yeet it. And as for the Megalodon, its counter is 70-ish ms airships, most people who have beaten it with craft of the half the cost do so with such craft.
Thank yooooooooooou
candela's laser is still decent after expending her initial charge. 60kdps is nothing to scoff at lads
also as her creator; i can guarantee that due to the s*tload of ecm thats on the candela; you should just spam missiles that are fast
edit: in a submarine that preferably stays below 50m lol
Hahaha wait till you see my new impeadance
@@skychak6856 Uh oh. You saying that scares me...
Players: the campaign is too easy
The Devs: ooh, you think the campaign is too easy....*dark souls dev engaged* We'll see about that......
And yet the KoL have kept themselves from going REAL nuts...
@@jaymorrison2419 hey I said dark souls, not dark souls III
Relevant animation is relevant
th-cam.com/video/2kr7KDCsIws/w-d-xo.html
These are the kind of crafts that make you feel good about cheesing it out with subs. Also, that Candela is going to fly real high when it inevitably runs into land. Just engage it close to shore and watch it kill itself. _Then_ you collect the free resources.
Oh my word, you're right. Fight it on a beach and watch it crash and burn. XD
@@BorderWise12 The Terawatt was the easiest craft to own in my last playthrough. :)
The fliers, tough? Soooo tedious to bring down with missiles, especially when you damage them a tiny bit and they go to space. The cheesiest faction (IMO) deserves to be cheesed out of existence. The subs tasked with cleaning out that particular area of the map (~200k in materials each, never used anywhere else, 'cause cheese) were called _Heatsink_ and _Absolute Zero._ I think the names were the best part about them. XD
@@rune12358 yeah i know it is an issue and ftd pathfinding doesn't like to work lol
@@chimaera1195 hey, great work on the craft. I am very scared right now.
dont judge the hotel room i build in my superstructure
i command in luxury
I, too, like to call room service for a fine meal with tea whilst I get defaced by intermediate difficulty vehicles.
An Imperial capital ship has been branded as a "hotel" once.
Me; Yeah I can beat the marauder without cheese.
Megalodon; oh sweet summer child
I cheese all facs
I mean if your bad like me then you can just sink to the bottom of the see build a block of heavy armor and build single blocks with nukes using the tab thing
@@therealgaben5527 That's not just cheese it's just not playing the campaign
This is why I am going to Ally with the steel striders XD
I'm allying either DWG or OW. Gotta bet on the under dog sometimes.
@@Driver-qt9jh if you want to take on the steel striders you should Ally with OW, as their backup will help.
BRIBE THEM!
@@Mccx81 just kill the onyx watch then -muda- the white flayers to death.
Same down with the white flyers and lighting hoods also rip bribing
I cant wait for lath to run into these, by that time his carrier will be 3x as massive. Lmao
Yesssss!
Lath ? Lathrix ?
Orion Shadows yessir
Already done in adventure mode. Managed to defeat the Megalogon, Sorveign and two Titans attacking his battleship submarine all at the same time.
Look in the center of the bridge of the Megalodon and you can see Jeffery Obertson sitting on his chair like he called his bigger brother to curb stomp a hard level on a video game for him
When BorderWise say “twice the size of the Tyr” my TH-cam crash. LOL
Really? Lol
The Canadian Kiwibirb I kid you not. It happened
I like these, I've felt for a long time that the community has out grown the vanilla vehicles and that they should revamp all the factions. Not quite what I wanted but I like the new editions
Look on the bright side the onyx watch doesn't have a space fortress
You just gave me the best image. A big fat Onyx Watch space ship that charges when it's health drops below a certain amount i.e. falls on you at terminal velocity.
@@Meteor2022 ok i need to start building a space castle right now
Yes
@@3dwrecker_4660 link it wgen youre done, i *N e e d* to see it
@@muhammadaltairaufa4178 i was joking lol, im shit at building
Robbaz : hey lemme tryand capture this thing
Something Bigger than a Great white, just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water! Really looking forwards to seeing this thing in the game when the update goes live!
I was testing my battleship in the devtest, modifying it and such, tested it against this and got absolutely wrecked. To be fair, this costs 800k more than mine. But it wound up mostly being because I lacked torpedo defense. I added that, and found that I could destroy it just barely. The reason is that the main guns cost like 250k each, so most of the expense is there, and railguns are really only so good. It's CIWS is expensive and mostly useless as all freely rotating CIWS are. It does have an excellent lams system, but it's set to shoot down missiles, so it can be overwhelmed with small missile spam, allowing crams to get through. So basically, missile spam and crams will kill it just fine.
People seem to often overlook the power of large torpedoes. They can deal serious damage especially if you don’t have competent defenses.
I don't know whether building big is really going to be the ultimate solution to beating the Megalodon. Its seemingly enormous damage output means that you would need disproportionately expensive levels of armour, which is doable but sucks, I agree with you. Maybe a swarm of small and especially very evasive fliers or hydrofoil attack craft could stand a better chance. Then again they need to pack enough punch to get through the Megalodon's active and passive defence.
As for the Candela, well... I've got as many answers as there are hard counters to big laser damage.
I say all in all despite the obvious powercreep, that's going to be a fun challenge and a breath of fresh air in the end game. I hope more crazy crafts like these two follow suit for each faction, like you said as bosses of some sort. The bosses of old have been outclassed and the game engine runs as good as ever, I think it's prime time for larger, meaner enemies.
20:30 Are laser absorbing shields even a thing anymore?!
They are, but the current Singularity has deliberately weak ones, only about strength 5 or so. The AP on the Candela is also absolutely ridiculous.
laser absorbing shields are a thing, but they only decrease AP not damage. And strength 10 shielding will only decrease candela's ap to ~64.8, which is almost enough to destroy HA without damage waste.
she used to full-counter laser shielding with a 280AP laser, but i decided i wanted more laser memeyness, aka that massive initial burst that takes out 10% of the singularity lol
I've been on the discord and talked to the individual who built the Candela, holy shit the thing refuses to die.
"The best way to kill the enemy is to know the enemy"
-Sun boi, at least 10 years ago
As someone who did some, (Emphasis on some it's changed a decentish amount since i worked on it), work on the Candella it's a complete glass cannon but it's got massive charge capacity, (not sure if it still has a regulator on there), and the AP is over 200. You basically need stacked smoke and laser shields to handle it. Preferably with heavy armour for it to smack into after all that. However that AP accounts for a huge chunk of it's cost. Somewhere in there there is a Carl was here sign that it's creator put in to acknowledge the work i did.
Also complete glass cannon, the bulk of the guts has a single layer of metal between it and the outside world.
Aha, but you forget the most historic armour of LH craft, fuel boxes. It has like 3 layers of fuel boxes on top of the 1 metal around the laser, which is depressingly significant
@@placeholder3907 Not sure if they're the ones i put down, (haven;t looked inside it since the version that left my hands), but if so, your welcome. :P
Robbaz's new stealth battleship eats this.
I'm all for more challenge and more variety in general being added. Still waiting for this update until I continue / start a new campaign. The new blocks on their own are a big reason I'm waiting to really start building anything new.
Seriously this ship is beautiful, looks painfully horrible to take on, and honestly it forces you to make a ship or ships to help deal with it and I love that. It is amazingly fun not to have one big ship that just counters everything somehow. I love having an RTS where you as the player have to make the unit to help deal with another unit on the enemy faction's side while still being able to make and use every single other unit you've made up to that point. Scary dangerous ships of any size are like raid bosses when they pop up and it is so satisfying to take them down.
You should look at the event horizon (SD) it can 1v1 kill it >:D
It has a 29x29x10 500mm 8m 110rpm railgun
My god
Thats insane my best cannon is 500mm 8m 20 rpm and it is very outdated now
the AI doesn't really care about costs that much..
a gun like that's more than 500K resource by itself
The Senate its treason then, because its only 450k mats
The event horizon can kill anything its the event horizon
its always so interesting to come again to older videos like this and see how crafts changed over time, had completelly forgotten that the Meg had simple weapons rather than PACs for its secondary guns. Makes me wonder if anyone ever tried keeping a collection of older models of crafts saved.
They have, actually! There are workshop items which are precisely that. :D
more very large ships soon ;3
currently there's a team working on a new scarlet dawn vessel that should stand against the Meg toe to toe.
Hey, if it can't solo two megs at once I have failed at my job in designing internals. Having no resource limit is a hell of a drug.
if we don't make the Micronova able to take out a Megalodon turret in one go I will be forced into suicide out of shame of failing at a decent airframe
Don't worry, from some tweaking I can get even just a large missile to take out a meg turret. They're only metal ha. We do need some dud flingers though. Those LAMS are not fun to deal with.
Omg that is some insanely godly build, I just started to handle the Crossbones.... XD
There’s always a bigger fish
How do you not have more subscribers? You offer the most comprehensive coverage of any TH-camr I have seen on this game. Your guides have helped me so much. Keep up the amazing work.
i liked this and would watch more of these little fun things
even just the whole fighting the godlys against things and talking about their various abilities and strengths
its cool
thanks for making from the depths vids
You're welcome! This video was one of my most unexpectedly popular ones by far, so I'll definitely try to see if I can make more like it. :D
can't wait for Robbaz to find this thing
I am so gonna cry because my PC won't be able to handle a sizeable battle with this THING in it ;-;
I mean, it barely deals with one 100k volume ship that costs half of the Megalodon, what about this, and the fleet I'll have to design to kill it...
Welp, time to go back to the drawing board... and try not to curl up on the floor in a fetal position and cry along the way.
Just.
Spam.
More.
Particle.
Cannons
And if that don’t work use more gun.
-Engineer Team Fortress 2
intercontinental hypersonic railgun aimed by the player should do the job
yes. also spacecraft yeet the meg without taking damage. Lambda, my current personal project can do that very thing. (warp is amazing lol) It is very much a hard-counter since the main railguns can't aim up ya know
watch them add something stronger
Watch it be from the Deepwater Guard.
No don’t give nick ideas
Also after looking at the Contingency, its less a space battleship and more a planetary assault bombardment craft.
It only has the missiles able to shoot up, and going 110m/sec can let you outmaneuver the missiles.
It has a PAC in front and a small laser broadside, but combined with the paper armor it seems like it's not meant for frontline or 1v1 combat.
“Ass-paddled so hard the game crashed”
Christ
oh thank god.
i logged in today and thought i had just never noticed it
It’s hard, but use a giant space laser at max engagement distance. 700k(with a bit of luck) kills the megladon.
Im so megolaDONE with this
:D
"...hiding underwater..." The shells have supercavitation bases. With no penalty to their damage, because they are kinetic. 500mm hollow point rail guns were the first thing I tried when the APS update hit. The only counter besides stealth are lots of ring shields and an outer layer of heavy armor, just to raise the armor value high enough so the shells dont delete your armor (Armor stacking does not count for thump damage).
Just looking back at this video, man such innocent times! All of these craft have received massive upgrades. The way I beat them is with massive PAC with lense shutter, and 200ap lasers. Missile defense doesn't help when you don't use missiles =p
Miss the old secondaries on the Megalodon. The particle cannons are arguably more effective, but the twin casemate turrets on another turret had a neat aesthetic.
Now we have an hard economic war too.
I think that for a more fair comparison, you should match a roughly equal amount of building resource worth of ships; for example, if you have a 1.5M ship, it should face 3 500K ships, or 15 100K planes. Also, they should be spawned very far away from each other.
I don't have a 1.5 million mats ship... and my PC would melt if I spawned in 4 Staalslangs... and they got spawned in 1500m away from each other...
@@BorderWise12 By "far" I mean "outside weapon range", so that both of the ships have time to deploy every measure they have and reach cruise speed. This way you could also see and take into account possible difference in weapon and detection ranges.
Edit: I understood what you meant when you said you don't have a 1.5M ship
Looking back at this two years on, I think "did people know what the hell was coming to eat their RAM like a protogen meme?"
Border wise to defeat the singularity you don’t laser it you bring out the impractical craft that are so big and expensive that you always win
Borderwise you should also try 500mm 8m Pure Railgun Pen-depth, I have experimented with them, and boy are they scary. Great at blowing up the interior important parts of ships. Also as a laptop player, I really hope it doesn't explode when it meets some of these things.
Oh lord well looks like it's back to the drawing board for a new battleship
That thumbnail.
It reminds me of a time a new, famous TH-camr said "shark" far more than I should.
Help.
a
for a sec i thought this is a new video but one minute in and that's when i realize this is almost a year ago
We need to see this thing fight the Ragnarök
high rpm 100mm advanced cannon miniguns firing frag shells would overwhelm the LAMS and toast the thing.
candela is immune to sonar, too fast for medium velocity APS, and has a monster lams for missiles.
sit back 3km and wait for it to run out of juice?
sacrifice a few 100k armoured craft?
both worked on the singularity (although it wasn't the plan when fighting it...)
my favorite counter to lasers is semi-subs (again not planned... the ships performed better 1/2 dead...). can probably set a acb to a behavior and PID for hull underwater modes. but that's for smart people that can cook bread
candela originally didn't have lams. The person who i gave the BP to for aesthetic finalizations added it for lols. As a creator, i intended for people to yeet it with fast missiles dedicated to range over damage, since most things miss, due to her 40k power ecm.
but yeah. Semi-subs *should* work as long as they start out submerged
i do that with almost all my ships , but not intentionally
There's two edges on redundancy as a concept applied here
#1 say your ship takes a few critical hits ... with good redundancy , it can stay afloat and win
#2 say your ship takes a few critical hits ... but it it way outmatched
Having redundancy now , only keeps it afloat to be a punching bag , losing you a ton of material
In this case , you're better off letting it sink, significantly reducing the damage it takes.
You want your ships to stay in the fight if you're using 1-2 monster ships
If you're using more but weaker craft , you want to cut down on that "stay afloat" redundancy for them to survive more
An example would be
#1 I use a huge battleship , it takes a few critical hits but nothing too severe...i want this to stay in the fight because it's so powerful it's going to win
#2 I use a small fleet of say 2-3 cruisers , a small number of cheaper escorts and stuff like this
If one of those gets focused down and takes massive hits really fast , i want them to take a dive
This way they can still plink at the enemy fleet if they have supercavitating rounds and torpedos , without taking more of a beating
Sure you lose some firepower , but that's better than losing entire ships
@@chimaera1195 if it's propulsion only works above water, a harpoon sub would utterly dominate it. looking at the cram kills; the lams overkill and must drain a lot of energy, so i'm guessing missiles are even more effective, being both offensive and defensively draining the energy for the main lasers.
Thing is: the only way you're hitting the candela with missiles is with LUA
Ah, good. The Alicorn may finally have a worthy opponent.
Haha finally, a reason to build an *even bigger battleship*
I see two potential solutions to the Megalodon. I haven't noticed any advanced cannons on the craft, so kamikaze crafts like the Martyr could prove effective, if you have enough of them. Second, it seems that by way of spinblocks, rams might even be effective, considering they only are countered by ridiculous amounts of armor. In short, the White Flayers counter this ship.
The Singlarity now a days be like: Haha enemy go bye bye.
Candela is the one that scares me. I use altitude, speed, and ecm for defense so the megalodon doesnt scare me. Lasers that instantly saw hole into critical systems do. Also.... lasers work fine against subs when you got giant noodle barrel for 2km damage. Just dont forget sonar bouy if needed.
I have built a battleship 'Abomination' with ten aps 500mm turrets with huge hesh that means seven turrets on the side will full on broadside with full firepower but still the Megalodon managed to survive my full voley on that thing
Can't even torpedo the Candela, so even submarines might have trouble...
You can't torpedo it, but fast missiles can still catch it. You just have to fire enough to get through its LAMS...
How to kill the Megalodon:
1. Put it in a giant deep fryer
2. Free food!!!
Me: *trying to get a good look at those secondaries because since then they’ve been replaced with PACs*
This is what happens when a builder is given alcohol to drink
Seems like the Megalodon had a cost reduction, what exactly changed apart from the simple weapons being replaced by PACs.
Now someone can correct me if I am wrong.
But these ships are basically intended to be literal 1 offs per faction. A boss fight for each faction if you will (wonder how difficulty settings would change that). The capital ship of their fleet.
So imagine it similar to the enemy HQ- there's only one of them.
I think that is the intended idea, yes. You'd have to be extrememly unlucky to run into more than one at the very least.
@@BorderWise12 Yep, these bosses would serve as the faction's HQ's last line of defense, so this means you have to destroy them first before you can take out their HQ.
Oh cool. More things I need to build things specifically to hard counter. Going to be honest, do people actually like this sort of thing? I mean yeah, I could build something to beat these. But it wouldn't be something I'd want to take into a campaign. It'd be stupid expensive and trivialize everything else. Never mind the amount of time just to build the thing. So I just wouldn't want to do it. Great for anyone with the patience, but I just don't have it.
Nothing to be done against lasers these days for sure...
I have had no end of trouble with these two monsters, they devour my submarines.
Looks like a worthy opponent! Shame i need a new power supply..
someone needs to do the math and make a laser that puts the candela lasers to shame
Everyone: this is a god craft its so strong oh no!!!
Robbaz: hold my blood pancakes
The Megalodon would eat his most recent battleship alive. Which would motivate him to build something even bigger and more Mc-Walrusy, but that's beside the point.
WTF O_o the speedy green death is blast a spaceship out of the sky thats . . . thats not fair
Legit question: How do the devs actually want the players act to deal with these things when the players are naturally at a massive disadvantage because they have to both contend with local resources *and* limited resources?
Really, I'd love them to answer that question. These designs only operate because there's no resource limit for such craft. Not so for player craft.
Good questions! Here are my best answers:
1. They do have a resource limit, and the AI is also limited by local resources in the new campaign format.
2. These craft will be very, very rare. Most players won't see them unless they play exceptionally well.
3. There are ways to counter them, which the KOTLs have obligingly shared with me:
- Candela: it runs out of juice quickly and can't attack submarines well at all. Large APN missiles can break through its LAMS and catch up to it too.
- Megalodon: lousy AA and it apparently gets wrecked by fast orbiting airships. Spamming wee dodgy PAC bombers at it would likely work well too.
That's part of the change in the current Devtest. They're planning on making it so that Players and AI are forced to use local resources.
kotl here.
every craft is built within counterable restrictions, majyst is highly against having a master of all craft as well as spamming well optimized ships. he wants the campaign to be fun and enjoyable so if these new ships are too strong they will get nerfed. if you try hard enough eventually you'll discover how to counter every faction regardless of size, the Megalodon is bad against aircraft much like the majority of other SS ships built for the same role. lh however, I don't know. majyst asked for high pen lasers and the community builders who took up the task went above and beyond the expected damage with Candela arguably being the strongest laser craft in the campaign since the builder made it stronger than the Abyss, I personally don't like it because lasers don't have enough high end counters (buff smoke pls) but for now the builders did their job in building these crafts and updates in the future should fix them.
The player also doesn’t have to be fair. There’s nothing stopping you from making your own bigger, badder laser whale of death. There’s nothing stopping you from plopping a couple railguns on a stick and sniping from 5 km. There is something stopping the factions from having those, and his name is majyst.
Also as someone who has dissected the candela a bit, it, alongside the rest of the lightning hoods, dies to about half a hesh shell. Heat works too. Just shoot it with fast heat shells or heat missiles and watch it bleed
submarines for both
Not sure how well they would work against the Megalodon's missiles, but the contingency has not active missile defense. Wonder how well a spacecraft with lasers and harpoon flare/jammer missiles would do against it.
That was the baby now the dad has come
Oh ya, this reminds me that I actually do have to make a dreadnaught at some point and stop relying on just a bunch of small craft.... the Twin Guard approach can only get me so far...
Eh... don't feel too pressured to make giant stuff. You can get through a lot of Neter with just small to medium sized craft, if you design them well and play to their strengths.
@@BorderWise12 Ya, problem is im reletively new to the game so designing them well is a bit hard, and I need something that can tank hits because I cant afford to lose 2-3 boats in every single fight. their like 57000 materials for only a small volume, they can handle Onyx watch and Deep water guard stuff wine with missiles and the occasional Advanced cannon shot if they get too close, but I need a larger ship that can actually take like, for example a particle cannon shot without immediately disintegrating.
@@BorderWise12 Oh plus storming the Steel Striders territory with a fleet of super dreadnaughts sounds fun.
Bruh, the SD star fury is fucken scary
If you struggle check which your craft can fit 13x13 turret of heigh around 10 then retrofit to have tripple 500mm 15rpm+ 30k raildraw APHE (ap, solid, solid, solid, he, he, pendepth), it's a dedicated drednought killer tho, as it seriously overpens if you set it to 8m depth but that's kinda needed to deal with 30k+ crafts
I don't watch your videos often tho so dunno what's your style, if you don't like tripple turrets then just... take the notes and do it on your own I guess? it's simple somewhat simple recipe I think
Because my computer isn't great, it's actually easier for me to focus on huge boss ships so my computer doesn't have to process allied forces.
Image if those mega guns used aphe...
The megalodon alone crashed my computer like 3 times already
I'll take this as a challenge
I copied the guns on the Megalodon.
Lets just say my new ship obliterates bulwarks.
It also helps that i added a pretty good lams system.
glad I build big but I need to build big and efficient
"a railgun using hypersonic 500mm shells really hurts" no duh
Just wait until the new GT craft come into devtest. Just as potent as these but also cheaper, so the strategic AI can spawn even more of them.
...This is what happens when you tell the maker of a game to make harder enemies.
With the candella, I'd say you just want some extra high velocity high caliber HESH rounds, so probably a railgun since it can outpace your average APS shells, run rounds around any CRAM ship and ignore missiles that can't keep up with it, so large chemical railguns or lasers, and with the singularity, it's the same but with the nuance that it can warpdrive dodge your APS and missiles so lasers are actualy probably your better option xD
Railguns are definitely the way to go. Or a submarine with ludicrously fast missiles.
missiles are probably better lol
@@chimaera1195 I'm finding the LAMS on the Candela to be royal pain in the butt, though.
@@BorderWise12 i'm sorry about that; i still don't think neekap should've added lams, but, she has an acb to turn off offense when enough missiles are present that Neekap added. So an overwhelming force of missiles will shut down candela's lams, providing you with a window of opportunity for a submarine to surface and use cannons to take her down.
I made a 500mm kinetic APS rail assisted gun with 2x 55 rpm that can barely penetrate the megalodon from side to side when it hits the front it reaches the first turret sometimes. I'm putting it in a ship that I'm building which is heavily inspired by the threshershark because it's my favourite ship. Hoping it turns out to be less than a million and my first megalodon killer. The gun has so much recoil that a custom jet engine need to output about 100k thrust to combat its recoil when I mounted it on a hovercraft. Update: the frontal hovercraft works perfectly and costs exactly 1 million I made sure by adding some wood. There is only one problem which makes the design fail and I don't know how to fix it. The megalodon keeps sniping the barrels off but they are already heavy barrels and making a lams strong enough to catch all megalodon projectiles will cost 500000 or something itself way too expensive atleast. It gets the megalodon about half dead. Anybody knows how to reinforce barrels please tell me it's the only thing holding my flying threshershark back 🙂.
So I decided to pit my unfinished-but-generally-terrifying 800k monstrosity against both of these ships, hoping to salvage some sort of pride in my creation, and...yeah no. They murder it to death.
BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.
Ouch... been there, know that feel.
That was how the Thyr made me feel back in the day. 😆
(Large) Torpedoes are quite good against the Megalodon. As to the Candelah... heck if I know. T_T
how to kill a Megalodon ? of course its pretty simple : with two Megalodons.
Even a submarine wouldn't work too well against the Megalodon, given that its guns use the supercavitation base too, and I'd bet it has loads of torpedoes as well.
Torpedoes aren't even an issue, they can be easily countered unlike the railgun lol.
@@Ivy_TSG If you manage to dodge (via warping maybe) or survive a few hits from those railguns, a sub that outspeeds the Megaladon would probably be the best vehicle to beat the Megalodon still, by staying so close to directly underneath that the guns cannot depress far enough to aim at it - maybe even get directly underneath and use a melee PAC or just spinblock rams to murder it.
I'm at 11:42 in the video and you mentioned how smoke doesn't seem to work against strong lasers, aren't there also shields you can use to absorb lasers as well? Let's double it up!
That might be compulsory if you want to fight lasers head on. Smoke on its own doesn't seem to do enough.
@@BorderWise12 I've spent the night throwing all of my designs at the megalodon. After spending maybe 3-4 mil resources, it was finally classed as too damaged. If you can't take out those railguns early on in a fight, or give them something to focus on, they'll destroy everything. Also, it's munition defense is the closest I've seen to being completely unbeatable. It took hundreds of small missiles (in swarms) before it finally seemed to run out of energy. The megalodon is easily the scariest design ive seen in FTD.
LAMS cannot kill pure kinetic shells, so throwing a cram shell with no pellets will drain them real quick. Large missiles with all reinforced bodies will also give LAMS a bad day. Alternatively, a lot of APS shells can go too fast for LAMS to detect and destroy.
@@placeholder3907 All true things. Large missiles in particular are handy against the Meg, since the ECM on it throws off the aim of APS and CRAMs.
Based on the fight with the carrier I think megalodon might have issues with ICBMs. It does not deal well with swarms and ICBMs ignored by the near prefect LAM system. If ICBM are too cheesy perhaps hordes of micro ram ships.
I actually tried that. The CIWS on the back might not have a seperate AI controlling it, but it has range limits on the LWC set up so it can shoot down ICBMs easily.
Now a simultaneous ICBM and missiles swarm might be a different story...
@@BorderWise12 I see. The only other thought is convert the ICBM surface skimmers or nuclear torpedoes. Might allow them to make it pass the CIWS.
steel striders is an amazing faction!
I feel personally attacked