The pricing is $3,500.00 + installation costs. Your video doesn’t clearly call this out and almost seems to compare paying roughly $3500 to install a traditional panel and then compare it to the new pricing by Span. Right now this still seems cost prohibitive. Also, for something like this I really would prefer not having to use another app to manage something in my home. It needs to be compliant with Matter to Thread protocols so I can trust its standards compliant and i am not locking myself into something that gets abandoned 5-10-15 yrs down the road by Span as they move on to new models and products or get acquired.
I did that with SONOS, now they are up to GEN 3 on the speakers and completely locked me out of the new APP, you know because speakers need f****n upgrading every couple of weeks! Thank god they can do that over the air now, because in the 70s and 80s you had to take your speakers to the local HI-FI store to get them upgraded to the latest firmware!!!!!! THANKS SONOS!!!! Looking at you SPAN!
I'm reasonably sure (from another video) that his panel was provided for him for free. Please correct me if I'm wrong of course. Classic TH-cam incentive misalignment. Not saying it's a bad product but this is an advertisement.
What about after it’s lifespan? The nice thing about “dumb” panels is they don’t need software updates and they don’t have the same amount of circuitry to break
being in the IT profession - I love the idea of this product and home automation as a whole. But also being in IT - what do I end up spending most of my time on - IT Security - so I worry about things like this - being they are a connected device - what happens if they get attacked - could you be locked out of your account and all your appliances turned off? I wish the world wasn't like that - but these are the scenarios I worry about.
I find that technology is capturing and increasing amount of my time. Just to keep it running, checking into it, being notified, solving problems, just looking at data. I want the opposite; Less data, less worry. Example is my (Rachio) irrigation system. It matches my watering to the weather. I don't have to do a thing. I never look at it. Just runs. SPAN system really saves me nothing in money but will capture a bunch of my time - because it's cool. I'm pretty much aware of what in my house uses power. The one thing that sounds cool is the off grid solar use. But practically not something I'll actually use. Good video but Ben is hardly objective here (appreciate he's up front about it):-) FYI: I have solar and Tesla EV.
Ive installed approximately 35 span panels in the san diego area with great results. Theyve been so good that im going to replace the main panel in my own home with one and if its on my home, its good equipment
@@4literv6 the cost to install the panel is going to vary quite a bit depending upon the homes age and wiring setup. For a rather simple home (ie not needing a service feed upgrade, loads of sub panels or relocation of the panel itself ) we will be charging $1600 to install this panel plus panel cost. Comparatively, a new 225amp D square box which is our other option when a home simply needs a new panel, $2100 is the typical charge with the panel itself included. Apples to apples in just replacement of switch gear this Span panel costs 2.5x as much. HOWEVER IF you are or intend to in the future install batteries AND/OR generator and things like EV chargers etc, then the Delta between these two prices is much closer as theres quite a bit of additional labor and some equipment that will no longer be needed.
@@4literv6 if your home falls into these parameters I’d say doing a SPAN panel would cost about $1600 more than each of those upgrades quasi-independently, so still slightly more expensive but the end product would be a much cleaner, efficient install. I havent used the span EV charger but evidently there could be some labor cost savings by utilizing that one also. To me, its 100% worth the additional expense and if I were setting about working on my own home, I wouldn’t even consider another option. These panels are clearly way overbuilt im particularly impressed by the busbar design.
@@4literv6 not to my knowledge on rebates (other than solar tax credit eligibility) but your incentive should be considered to be efficiency. Thats cost efficiency and reducing losses through the system in other words more power from your panels into your various loads
@@4literv6 not to be that guy but depending on your location I may be able to help you with your project. We operate in multiple states I just frequently chime in with san diego specific info as thats where Ben & I both live. If thats of no interest to you no big deal I just love talking about this stuff
My biggest problem or concern with this product is the same concern I have with every smart home product; What happens in 5 or 10 years when you need to try to replace one of the circuit breakers or worse yet 5, 10 or 15 years if or when this company goes out of business do you now have to spend another $3500 To replace it with something else. There are too many examples of various smartphone and wired home and wireless home products that are no longer supported and now become hundred and thousands of tons of E waste. If this product could operate as a dumb panel if or when the company goes bankrupt then at least you have the comfort and security of knowing it will still work. But if not you just have more E waste and more expense.
It would be cool if they would get their integration with enphase. I haven't pulled the trigger on this because they aren't providing any updates since they announced saying they'd support it.
Was very excited to add a Span smart panel to my existing Tesla solar and PW situation in Utah. Spam apparently works with Angie’s list to identify installers and train them. Unfortunately my installer came and swapped out the old panel for the new smart panel, had questions he needed answered from Span and they were and still are completely AWOL. I now have a partially completed project with no functionality and no plan by Span to remediate and this and finish it. The support they give installers is very pathetic and doesn’t come close to matching the technology they are selling. BAD EXPERIENCE
Thank you for the heads up! That is obviously a serious issue that people need to be made aware of, and a definite red flag for this company. I hope that you are able to get this resolved soon.
Strange, I would have thought that installation wise it would not be too different from a regular electric panel. What was the issue? I assume that it must be solved by now.
Update to my original post. I think everyone now knows Span works with local installers to install the panel on-site. I was the first in my area (northern Utah) to get this product and the installer Span used watched a video or two to prepare. That’s it. This particular installer wanted nothing to do with my preexisting Tesla solar panel and Powerwall system. So initially the swapping of the panel is very routine but the integration required afterwards was challenging. Fortunately Span was willing to work with me directly over the phone to get everything running seamlessly and have not had any issues since. I feel Span went out of their way to make this right on my end due to the lackluster install working with the 3rd party installer. Hopefully it is an issue that isn’t widespread.
Who owns the data and where is it stored? I think these two questions become more and more apparent. Imagine the company owning the data going out of business and they have to shut down their "datacenter". You would have to buy new smart panels and chargers. So I hope the data is stored on a small thumbdrive or sd-card in the panel. Or at least they have an option for that...
We are contemplating a SPAN system and the EV charger, wonder if they sell the data they collect to some other company? I also wonder what happens when a circuit goes out, will it cost me a ton to get that replaced when a dumb breaker box does not have boards to fail.
If SPAN is to really control your power it could dynamically adjust your EV charge rate to precisely consume export power. Thus when a cloud goes by or house load increases, SPAN would reduce the EV charge rate. If you have a battery storage system you should be able to coordinate the state of battery charge with PV production and EV charging and other loads to minimize exported power or maybe to prepare for an outage where you could operate off-grid.
@@BenSullinsOfficial Thanks, I use the Tesla phone app to manually adjust the charge rate and follow the bell curve of solar PV production (on pure sunny days), and am determined to automate this, as I cannot vacuum up all that export power without buying power I could avoid with precise control of charging. That capability is especially valuable to me, as our small rural muni does not provide any compensation for exported power.
Very cool, it’s good that people like Ben around to test out new gadgets. As an ordinary non-technical viewer I had several questions as you went through the video. It seems like Span would be attractive - although still pretty pricey - only if someone needs to replace their existing service panel and they have solar with a backup battery. Under such circumstances, what is the marginal additional cost of going with Span over a new conventional panel? Does the Span installation require specialized knowledge/skill that a typical licensed electrician might not have?
Does Span automatically detect what devices are in your home, or do you need to manually add them? Context - have a Sense device, and I'm wondering if the two can cohabitate well.
@@wyrdstein huh. Alright, then I guess my follow-up question still remains - does this impact Sense at all? Seems like the two would work really well together for determining which devices are on which circuits.
I have a Sense too, and my educated guess is that yes, they will both work at the same time without interfering. The Span seems to work by measuring usage at each breaker, while the Sense measures usage on the mains and guesses at what device issuing what power based on learned power signature.
Ben, Thanks for the great update! I'll definitely use the SPAN panel on the new home we're designing right now. I do have questions: - A single 200 amp won't cover our needs, especially with a Model Y and another EV coming in spring 2023... So does the app work okay with 2 SPAN panels??? How do you suggest we proceed? - Our home will have solar and a PowerWalls ... won't the PowerWalls handle everything the new SPAN Meter Base & SPAN Drive EV Charger handles? Thank you brother! Cheers, Eric
I would reach out to them and ask, they do have some way of balancing the load so even if you don't have enough amps you can share it between different circuits.
I am not sure I totally understand. I am upgrading to Tesla solar with two powerwalls later this year and waiting for my install date. Is this something I am likely going to need to do by upgrading my panel on my 10 year old home or is it more of a nice to have?
Need to see stronger options for ESS support before I feel super comfortable buying the Rolls Royce of Service Panels. I'd love to see support for Fortress Power and Simpliphi amongst others.
So I'm impressed. Ben, can you point me to a electrical contractor or GC in the Palm Springs, CA area that I might talk to? I'd like to find someone who can handle both the SPAN and Tesla batteries as well as some smaller upgrades.
Great Update Ben, My question relates to a comment you said that had me wondering if the App allowed me to ID multiple appliances on a circuit. Like a circuit in the kitchen that ran the Small Beverage Refrigerator, Toaster, Coffee maker and Coffee Grinder? Thanks! Cheers, Eric
You can select the circuit and then select items that are on the circuit. I have a circuit that is listed as "Water Heater" and I listed that the circuit includes the tankless water heater and the freezer. The one for the pantry includes the upright freezer, outlets, water softener, outlets, and a bread machine. I plan to shift the freezer to the pantry circuit when we flip an outlet and place the small freezer into the garage (behind the pantry) and away from the water heater. That circuit, and possibly the laundry area circuits will be part of my remodeled bathroom later.
Great Video! Doing a self build modern home for personal use and after seeing this there is no doubt I will be integrating this system. I don’t normally write comments but wanted to support your channel since this video was such a big help. Thank you and wishing you and your loved ones the best!
The feature I'm most interested in is "power based on demand" to utilize 200 amps to at different times power 400 amps worth of appliances, but not at the same time. I want the panel to not go over the total 200 amps but redirect it based on whether I'm charging my car or in the hot tub and alert me if I'm turning on too much at once.
That is basically what a circuit breaker does. It sounds like what you want is “intelligent load shedding” when Span disables certain circuits and warns you because you went too close to your limit.
Excited to learn about this smart panel. makes sense. is your utility - SCE or PG&E or other? in california, can you just install battery without solar? if not do you have any idea why not. are there other backup batteries that are AC coupled ? thanks
I tried sense, it only gave me a high-level understanding. Span can actually control everything at the circuit level. Another option to consider (not sponsored) is Savant Power. It doesn't do everything Span does but is far better than Sense.
good info. A question that is not related, IIRC you have a bunch of EVs. Did you upgrade your main to be able to charge multiple cars simultaneously? Did you install multiple charging circuits as well? I have one EV, but considering others for other family members, but thinking I need to upgrade mains. Do you have a video about this?
Don't have a video about that, but one cool thing is that with Span you could add more circuits then you're wired for and configure a priority in the app. I personally only have 1 EV plug for both our cars.
@@BenSullinsOfficial that does sound cool definitely need to look into this panel. just wondering how many people upgraded to 400A mains for multiple chargers and how hard that would be to do (permits, etc.). I think I can put in one 50A circuit (using laundry 30A circuit now...but with an extension cord...which is a big no-no apparently) which will cap out my 200A panel, and can't put 50A on my sub-panels...I think as I'm no electrician.
I wouldn’t recommend two plugs UNLESS you drive a whole lot as a family OR your utility has a special EV charging rate for specific and limited times. Depending on the charger and the home pulling say 60amps x 2 may very well be more than the home is capable of delivering depending upon the additional loads within the home and the service amount allowed by your utility. I own a solar company myself. I would personally prefer to have the fastest charging I can get out of one plug vs reducing the amount I can charge and having two plugs
@@mattbrew11 We do drive a whole lot, and have the EV rate with PG&E (low 12A-3P, mid 3P-4P and 9P-12A, high 4P-9P). In non-COVID times we each put on 13K-15K/year, primarily from work. I *think* I would want multiple fast outlets, so am taking a look at 400A mains as well for at least 40A charging on 50A lines (not really looking into home CCS), 50A charging would be bonus on 60A lines. But, that is the question I'm trying to resolve, and seeing how other people do it (most everyone I know only has 1 EV, but I'm looking at going to 3). With gas, it's easy, just go fill up. With charging, it's overnight (12A till 6A/7A when we hit the road), so I'm really not sure. I also have a decent size home with a 17kW solar setup (3 PW2 batteries as well), but don't think I can pull it all from solar and definitely not during winter. Most days we can probably stagger and try to pre-plan and/or charge at a shopping center (horribly inconvenient), it's just those few times where we may overlap out of necessity or last minute travel, so I don't really know how inconvenient that is or how people handle it. I may just have to keep a gas car around, just in case, to see how patterns emerge.
@Ben Sullins Ben, Are you saying SPAN accommodates the half-thick breakers to add more circuits? I mean, let's say the SPAN breaker box has like 40 breakers normally... Are you saying I could remove 5 of the normal thickness breakers and install instead of 10 1/2 thickness breakers? 😀 Cheers, Eric
Wait, why do you need the span EV charger to power your EV from solar other than to get everything Span branded? Doesn't your solar panel automatically do that anyway, naturally? I'm not an electrician nor am I familiar with Powerwalls but my lay understanding is that if your solar panels are pushing power onto your home's electrical grid, it will naturally go to what's connected and drawing power, ie your EV if it's connected during the day, etc. Isn't that why you can't use Powerwalls if there's a power outage? Power will leak from your home's power grid to the public power grid and possibly shock any power company repair people repairing the power outage. Thus, Powerwalls will shutdown during a power outage. Can someone more familiar with home electricity and home batteries explain this or can Ben explain this in another video?
Anyone know where to buy one? The website site says I need to find someone who is certified. Called a ton of electric guys.. no one has heard of it. I'll install it myself... built my own tesla power wall.. just need to find one to buy ..
I wouldn't install one of these under any circumstances unless I was planning move in less than 5 years. The issue is the company, Will SPAN be in business in 10 years, unlikely. They have no other products, no history and you are building the foundation of your electric system on it. Your circuit panel isn't going anywhere and 10,15,20 years from now this could be an enormous issue for a homeowner. One software glitch can kill the power to any circuit. I love tech and products but I just don't get the gain here and the ownership risk is huge.
Since I know your channel is about EV so I know this is probably a smart energy solution. I wouldn’t call it a SMART HOME panel as the smart home community would think of smart home system like Smartthings. This panel is certainly nice and can be a good subsystem to a smart home in the general sense
The thing is a circuit could have 10 different items connected. So really don’t have separation. It is also a huge amount of work to replace my panel which is only two years old. In California you can’t actually live off grid if you are within the area served. Second is there aren’t any lenders for off grid homes. My 48 circuit sub panel was costly enough. Solar and car rebates in the form of tax credits are only good for people who make enough money to have a tax liability. If you have sufficient deductions already those tax credits are useless. The rebates need to be equal for all people and not just certain people.
This is really interesting to me but to call it a smart panel is a bit of a stretch. Does it connect to a smart home hub such as SmartThings or Alexa or HomeAssistant? Can it announce on my smart speakers that my dishes are done when the power to my dish washer resets? Same with my dryer. I want it to be able to communicate with my other smart home devices so that, for instance, if my pressure sensor recognizes that I'm in bed it can turn off the power to circuits I don't use while sleeping. This is what I think of when the words "smart panel" come to mind. From what I've seen, there's no connection between this panel and the rest of the smart home ecosystem. I already have the following apps: two apps for my smart speakers, two apps for my smart locks, two apps for my smart locks, an app for my smart dryer, an app for my router, two apps for my lights, an app for my smart vacuum, an app for my air fresheners, an app for my smart switches, an app for my projector, and an app for my curtains. I don't want more apps. I want one app that can be used for my smart home. I really like the look of this panel and I really like the data that it provides but until the panel's data can be used to interact with my smart home, none of that data is as useful as it should be.
It connects to Alexa currently and will be able to let you do all kinds of wild automations as the software improves. One specific thing I didn't keep in the video was it's ability to turn off some appliances (like an EV charger) during an outage to extend your backup battery. All kinds of possibilities
I'd love to see a realistic business case. I can't see installing this unless you are doing some sort of solar or other backup power system. Also... if SPAN goes under... are you dead ?
Seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. That whole thing about detecting higher power usage when something is about to fail, is that even true? Or was that just something you made up to sell this product? Also, the redirecting solar energy to your EV, here in the UK we have something called a Zappi which is specifically designed to do this.
This gets rid of the need for a hardwired critical load panel. You can dynamically choose which items are critical right now, then switch to another set of items. No electrician required.
My worry about thos as well as every smart l product. Is simple. Sure they are being very consumer centered now. Whst about down the line. Will features end up behind a pay wall? Will they allow local or State government access to micro manage your power useage like they are. pushing yo do where I live? I am sorry but no matter how good it is I just worry about giving another little piece of my life and home up to a company to control.
Yup complete agaree. Alot of these features can be made to work offline. Also haveing locol control is the only way i would consider putting this in my house
This is a decent concern. I’m preparing to disconnect my own home from the grid along with upgrading my solar tech (enphase IQ8 inverters & batteries along with this new span panel). Ill see if I can migrate all monitoring to home only as well. If you care, post back here in 6 months and ill respond with my discoveries
@@mattbrew11 I'm curious if you ended up installing one of these at your own home and how well it is working with your enphase system. I have a solaria+enphase IQ8 install scheduled at our home and want to add two of the enphase batteries into the mix and wonder how well all of this integrates. I'm in western WA.
@@michaelwall3401 I have enjoyed the span panel but I ended up changing from enphase to sol ark because the enphase system really limited the amount of power available. If you do stick with enphase make sure you have the daylight power device in the mix else it will further diminish the output during power outages
Seems like an unnecessary complication to life. Im a big geek when it comes to tech like automation and EVs and solar but this just sounds like something I dont really need. Might make sense if you're going to build new but not a retrofit. I still dont see the value. Just more data for companies to use.
shocking to see that your electrical panel is outdoors! aren't you concerned that some malicious player might turn your power off at the wrong time for you? [mine is inside the garage]
It's where your power panel was before. There is an option on securing/locking the panel with a lock through a hasp at the bottom. If you didn't/don't lock your panel now, why would you lock the Span panel?
Price for the panel (not including labor) $3500, that’s crazy because I buy a sub-panel at HB for under $200. I normally use three sub-panels for a typical house. I can’t follow the story about kids and detecting early equipment failure. Your explanation of the cost to replace a service panel does not follow a clear rational path. A span panel will cost about an additional $3000.00
My eyes can only roll so hard. A lot of the features seem like fluff that doesn’t end up helping you on a day to day basis. Plus I bet these die a lot faster than a “dumb” panel.
I tried purchasing this electrical panel without installation as I am a certified electrician. The company will not sell me just the panel. This is ridiculous. Seems like the company is running a bg scam. I'm also a purchasing agent for a government entity.
Love 💗 your work, from INDIA 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳 Please 🙏 can someone help me how to procure lithium ion battery 🔋 for my home storage+solar Or molten salt or anything as such , it's almost impossible to find here in India .here we only have lead acid battery which has very very low life cycle , especially with solar Please suggest something
I just cant pull the trigger on this system because I have no confidence the company or its tech will be around long term. They will likely be bought out and you could be left with a dumb panel again.
WHat the hell is the point of the tile of the video. You did not talk about the truth you talked about the the things you wish you could do but cant due to the software not having the feature. On top of that this is a sponsored video for Span so how could we trust anything you said. The idea of Span is great but i would never allow this much control of my house to a system that can be controlled by a 3rd party. Oh also the cost of this thing is way higher then nomraly in anyplace other then California "it seems". 3 grand gets you a full install and new panel here in TX. We are talking about having to pay 6 grand to get this thing. If they sold the hardware and had fully local software that goes into home assistant per say then i would consider it.
In other words the panel is not worth it. We already have devices for much cheaper that monitor the load. $4500.00 panel for what again? So if it’s for monitoring then what is the point of the rest of your equipment? People with money will spend the cost for no reason while others will not and rightfully so.
The pricing is $3,500.00 + installation costs. Your video doesn’t clearly call this out and almost seems to compare paying roughly $3500 to install a traditional panel and then compare it to the new pricing by Span. Right now this still seems cost prohibitive. Also, for something like this I really would prefer not having to use another app to manage something in my home. It needs to be compliant with Matter to Thread protocols so I can trust its standards compliant and i am not locking myself into something that gets abandoned 5-10-15 yrs down the road by Span as they move on to new models and products or get acquired.
I did that with SONOS, now they are up to GEN 3 on the speakers and completely locked me out of the new APP, you know because speakers need f****n upgrading every couple of weeks! Thank god they can do that over the air now, because in the 70s and 80s you had to take your speakers to the local HI-FI store to get them upgraded to the latest firmware!!!!!!
THANKS SONOS!!!! Looking at you SPAN!
I'm reasonably sure (from another video) that his panel was provided for him for free. Please correct me if I'm wrong of course.
Classic TH-cam incentive misalignment. Not saying it's a bad product but this is an advertisement.
My Span install was $8k. The fact is that the Span install takes 2 guys a full day. A regular panel upgrade takes 1 guy half a day.
@@Meatwad650 and the panel is $4500 now. Very difficult to justify.
@@AidanSkoyles Depends. How much you gonna spend moving circuits for a Powerwall install?
What about after it’s lifespan? The nice thing about “dumb” panels is they don’t need software updates and they don’t have the same amount of circuitry to break
being in the IT profession - I love the idea of this product and home automation as a whole. But also being in IT - what do I end up spending most of my time on - IT Security - so I worry about things like this - being they are a connected device - what happens if they get attacked - could you be locked out of your account and all your appliances turned off? I wish the world wasn't like that - but these are the scenarios I worry about.
I find that technology is capturing and increasing amount of my time. Just to keep it running, checking into it, being notified, solving problems, just looking at data. I want the opposite; Less data, less worry. Example is my (Rachio) irrigation system. It matches my watering to the weather. I don't have to do a thing. I never look at it. Just runs.
SPAN system really saves me nothing in money but will capture a bunch of my time - because it's cool. I'm pretty much aware of what in my house uses power. The one thing that sounds cool is the off grid solar use. But practically not something I'll actually use.
Good video but Ben is hardly objective here (appreciate he's up front about it):-)
FYI: I have solar and Tesla EV.
My biggest question: is the data stored locally?
Probably No
They need data to develop their products & business
Ive installed approximately 35 span panels in the san diego area with great results. Theyve been so good that im going to replace the main panel in my own home with one and if its on my home, its good equipment
@@4literv6 the cost to install the panel is going to vary quite a bit depending upon the homes age and wiring setup.
For a rather simple home (ie not needing a service feed upgrade, loads of sub panels or relocation of the panel itself ) we will be charging $1600 to install this panel plus panel cost. Comparatively, a new 225amp D square box which is our other option when a home simply needs a new panel, $2100 is the typical charge with the panel itself included.
Apples to apples in just replacement of switch gear this Span panel costs 2.5x as much. HOWEVER
IF you are or intend to in the future install batteries AND/OR generator and things like EV chargers etc, then the Delta between these two prices is much closer as theres quite a bit of additional labor and some equipment that will no longer be needed.
@@4literv6 their service thus far has been fine. The first few installs had a bit of a learning curve for us and they were patient and helpful.
@@4literv6 if your home falls into these parameters I’d say doing a SPAN panel would cost about $1600 more than each of those upgrades quasi-independently, so still slightly more expensive but the end product would be a much cleaner, efficient install. I havent used the span EV charger but evidently there could be some labor cost savings by utilizing that one also.
To me, its 100% worth the additional expense and if I were setting about working on my own home, I wouldn’t even consider another option.
These panels are clearly way overbuilt im particularly impressed by the busbar design.
@@4literv6 not to my knowledge on rebates (other than solar tax credit eligibility) but your incentive should be considered to be efficiency. Thats cost efficiency and reducing losses through the system in other words more power from your panels into your various loads
@@4literv6 not to be that guy but depending on your location I may be able to help you with your project. We operate in multiple states I just frequently chime in with san diego specific info as thats where Ben & I both live. If thats of no interest to you no big deal I just love talking about this stuff
My biggest problem or concern with this product is the same concern I have with every smart home product; What happens in 5 or 10 years when you need to try to replace one of the circuit breakers or worse yet 5, 10 or 15 years if or when this company goes out of business do you now have to spend another $3500 To replace it with something else. There are too many examples of various smartphone and wired home and wireless home products that are no longer supported and now become hundred and thousands of tons of E waste. If this product could operate as a dumb panel if or when the company goes bankrupt then at least you have the comfort and security of knowing it will still work. But if not you just have more E waste and more expense.
Afaik it uses the same breakers and you can use it like any manual breaker still, just flip it.
yup, that is the Achilles heel. I'd love this product to work for me, but it's impossible to justify.
It would be cool if they would get their integration with enphase. I haven't pulled the trigger on this because they aren't providing any updates since they announced saying they'd support it.
I’m gonna be waiting months for my powerwalls. I’d use a different battery if Span supported it.
Was very excited to add a Span smart panel to my existing Tesla solar and PW situation in Utah. Spam apparently works with Angie’s list to identify installers and train them. Unfortunately my installer came and swapped out the old panel for the new smart panel, had questions he needed answered from Span and they were and still are completely AWOL. I now have a partially completed project with no functionality and no plan by Span to remediate and this and finish it. The support they give installers is very pathetic and doesn’t come close to matching the technology they are selling. BAD EXPERIENCE
Thank you for the heads up! That is obviously a serious issue that people need to be made aware of, and a definite red flag for this company. I hope that you are able to get this resolved soon.
Strange, I would have thought that installation wise it would not be too different from a regular electric panel. What was the issue? I assume that it must be solved by now.
Update to my original post. I think everyone now knows Span works with local installers to install the panel on-site. I was the first in my area (northern Utah) to get this product and the installer Span used watched a video or two to prepare. That’s it. This particular installer wanted nothing to do with my preexisting Tesla solar panel and Powerwall system. So initially the swapping of the panel is very routine but the integration required afterwards was challenging. Fortunately Span was willing to work with me directly over the phone to get everything running seamlessly and have not had any issues since. I feel Span went out of their way to make this right on my end due to the lackluster install working with the 3rd party installer. Hopefully it is an issue that isn’t widespread.
With Span is the data stored in the cloud or locally on the device? I don't want a company to have such granular information on my energy use.
Who owns the data and where is it stored? I think these two questions become more and more apparent. Imagine the company owning the data going out of business and they have to shut down their "datacenter". You would have to buy new smart panels and chargers. So I hope the data is stored on a small thumbdrive or sd-card in the panel. Or at least they have an option for that...
How do you handle adding a new circuit to the panel? Do you have to have SPAN do it? If so, what is the cost to add a new fuse to your system?
No not at all . Any licensed electrician should be qualified to do this for you .
Any word on when it will be approved for Canada? Would love to get my hands on a unit and install it here!
Interesting that the price is back up to $4,500 now.
We are contemplating a SPAN system and the EV charger, wonder if they sell the data they collect to some other company? I also wonder what happens when a circuit goes out, will it cost me a ton to get that replaced when a dumb breaker box does not have boards to fail.
If SPAN is to really control your power it could dynamically adjust your EV charge rate to precisely consume export power. Thus when a cloud goes by or house load increases, SPAN would reduce the EV charge rate. If you have a battery storage system you should be able to coordinate the state of battery charge with PV production and EV charging and other loads to minimize exported power or maybe to prepare for an outage where you could operate off-grid.
Yep, they showed this at their recent launch event
@@BenSullinsOfficial Thanks, I use the Tesla phone app to manually adjust the charge rate and follow the bell curve of solar PV production (on pure sunny days), and am determined to automate this, as I cannot vacuum up all that export power without buying power I could avoid with precise control of charging. That capability is especially valuable to me, as our small rural muni does not provide any compensation for exported power.
The reality is that all you need to do that is software. SPAN doesn't need to exist. The inverter could tell the car directly to draw less.
Can you access information if the internet is disconnected?
Wouldn't buying a few dozen smart wall sockets be a better and cheaper option?
Very cool, it’s good that people like Ben around to test out new gadgets. As an ordinary non-technical viewer I had several
questions as you went through the video. It seems like Span would be attractive - although still pretty pricey - only if someone needs to replace their existing service panel and they have solar with a backup battery. Under such circumstances, what is the marginal additional cost of going with Span over a new conventional panel? Does the Span installation require specialized knowledge/skill that a typical licensed electrician might not have?
Install cost should be the same generally but the panel itself costs a bit more
Have you compared how much power your Tesla uses when charging vs other house hold appliances.
Love your new type of content.
Does Span automatically detect what devices are in your home, or do you need to manually add them? Context - have a Sense device, and I'm wondering if the two can cohabitate well.
The electrician has to name them in the app.
@@wyrdstein huh. Alright, then I guess my follow-up question still remains - does this impact Sense at all? Seems like the two would work really well together for determining which devices are on which circuits.
I have a Sense too, and my educated guess is that yes, they will both work at the same time without interfering. The Span seems to work by measuring usage at each breaker, while the Sense measures usage on the mains and guesses at what device issuing what power based on learned power signature.
Ben,
Thanks for the great update! I'll definitely use the SPAN panel on the new home we're designing right now.
I do have questions:
- A single 200 amp won't cover our needs, especially with a Model Y and another EV coming in spring 2023... So does the app work okay with 2 SPAN panels??? How do you suggest we proceed?
- Our home will have solar and a PowerWalls ... won't the PowerWalls handle everything the new SPAN Meter Base & SPAN Drive EV Charger handles?
Thank you brother!
Cheers,
Eric
I would reach out to them and ask, they do have some way of balancing the load so even if you don't have enough amps you can share it between different circuits.
@@BenSullinsOfficial Thx Ben, I sure will.
@@erickessler6094 you can stack 2 together to make a 400a service
Does the $3,500 price tag include all of the smart breakers?
How much is the new panel? I kind of balked at the original price.
Watch the video…
Mine was about $6k all total, with installation.
How compatible would it be with a whole house generator?
I am not sure I totally understand. I am upgrading to Tesla solar with two powerwalls later this year and waiting for my install date. Is this something I am likely going to need to do by upgrading my panel on my 10 year old home or is it more of a nice to have?
What size of panel do they offer? 200 or 400 amp?
Need to see stronger options for ESS support before I feel super comfortable buying the Rolls Royce of Service Panels. I'd love to see support for Fortress Power and Simpliphi amongst others.
No reason that Z-wave or Zigbee breakers could not be made, providing all the same functionality for a fraction of the cost.
i see you have two shut off witches (eaton) next to the battery .. why two. . and what are they used for ?
Ac disconnects
Experience a simulated SPAN home on your phone first. No purchase or login required span.io/iphone | span.io/android
You mentioned you’re in California. If you’re in SoCal who’s the installer you went with and do you recommend them?
So I'm impressed. Ben, can you point me to a electrical contractor or GC in the Palm Springs, CA area that I might talk to? I'd like to find someone who can handle both the SPAN and Tesla batteries as well as some smaller upgrades.
I am excited for the product and glad to hear they are adding Sense like detection. Do they have an API where you can ingest the raw data?
Glad they are getting rid of net metering! Finally we will get the addoption of home storage... and Finally fixing the duck curve!
Great Update Ben,
My question relates to a comment you said that had me wondering if the App allowed me to ID multiple appliances on a circuit. Like a circuit in the kitchen that ran the Small Beverage Refrigerator, Toaster, Coffee maker and Coffee Grinder? Thanks!
Cheers,
Eric
You can select the circuit and then select items that are on the circuit. I have a circuit that is listed as "Water Heater" and I listed that the circuit includes the tankless water heater and the freezer. The one for the pantry includes the upright freezer, outlets, water softener, outlets, and a bread machine. I plan to shift the freezer to the pantry circuit when we flip an outlet and place the small freezer into the garage (behind the pantry) and away from the water heater. That circuit, and possibly the laundry area circuits will be part of my remodeled bathroom later.
@@zinaj9437 Thank you so much for the info!
Cheers,
Eric
Great Video! Doing a self build modern home for personal use and after seeing this there is no doubt I will be integrating this system. I don’t normally write comments but wanted to support your channel since this video was such a big help. Thank you and wishing you and your loved ones the best!
Hl
Good show Ben!!! Great Info!!!
The feature I'm most interested in is "power based on demand" to utilize 200 amps to at different times power 400 amps worth of appliances, but not at the same time. I want the panel to not go over the total 200 amps but redirect it based on whether I'm charging my car or in the hot tub and alert me if I'm turning on too much at once.
That is basically what a circuit breaker does. It sounds like what you want is “intelligent load shedding” when Span disables certain circuits and warns you because you went too close to your limit.
If a circuit is tripped, can you reset it from the remote app?
@boe Dillard if the circuit is physically tripped you must reset it at the panel you can’t reset a tripped circuit from the app
If I don't have solar nor a Tesla wall, but I do have an EV car, would this product benefit me for any reason?
Excited to learn about this smart panel. makes sense.
is your utility - SCE or PG&E or other?
in california, can you just install battery without solar? if not do you have any idea why not.
are there other backup batteries that are AC coupled ?
thanks
@ben great video. Thinking about getting one. How is this different than having a monitoring device like sense device?
I tried sense, it only gave me a high-level understanding. Span can actually control everything at the circuit level. Another option to consider (not sponsored) is Savant Power. It doesn't do everything Span does but is far better than Sense.
good info. A question that is not related, IIRC you have a bunch of EVs. Did you upgrade your main to be able to charge multiple cars simultaneously? Did you install multiple charging circuits as well? I have one EV, but considering others for other family members, but thinking I need to upgrade mains. Do you have a video about this?
Don't have a video about that, but one cool thing is that with Span you could add more circuits then you're wired for and configure a priority in the app. I personally only have 1 EV plug for both our cars.
@@BenSullinsOfficial that does sound cool definitely need to look into this panel. just wondering how many people upgraded to 400A mains for multiple chargers and how hard that would be to do (permits, etc.). I think I can put in one 50A circuit (using laundry 30A circuit now...but with an extension cord...which is a big no-no apparently) which will cap out my 200A panel, and can't put 50A on my sub-panels...I think as I'm no electrician.
I wouldn’t recommend two plugs UNLESS you drive a whole lot as a family OR your utility has a special EV charging rate for specific and limited times. Depending on the charger and the home pulling say 60amps x 2 may very well be more than the home is capable of delivering depending upon the additional loads within the home and the service amount allowed by your utility.
I own a solar company myself. I would personally prefer to have the fastest charging I can get out of one plug vs reducing the amount I can charge and having two plugs
@@mattbrew11 We do drive a whole lot, and have the EV rate with PG&E (low 12A-3P, mid 3P-4P and 9P-12A, high 4P-9P). In non-COVID times we each put on 13K-15K/year, primarily from work. I *think* I would want multiple fast outlets, so am taking a look at 400A mains as well for at least 40A charging on 50A lines (not really looking into home CCS), 50A charging would be bonus on 60A lines. But, that is the question I'm trying to resolve, and seeing how other people do it (most everyone I know only has 1 EV, but I'm looking at going to 3). With gas, it's easy, just go fill up. With charging, it's overnight (12A till 6A/7A when we hit the road), so I'm really not sure. I also have a decent size home with a 17kW solar setup (3 PW2 batteries as well), but don't think I can pull it all from solar and definitely not during winter. Most days we can probably stagger and try to pre-plan and/or charge at a shopping center (horribly inconvenient), it's just those few times where we may overlap out of necessity or last minute travel, so I don't really know how inconvenient that is or how people handle it. I may just have to keep a gas car around, just in case, to see how patterns emerge.
@Ben Sullins Ben,
Are you saying SPAN accommodates the half-thick breakers to add more circuits?
I mean, let's say the SPAN breaker box has like 40 breakers normally... Are you saying I could remove 5 of the normal thickness breakers and install instead of 10 1/2 thickness breakers? 😀
Cheers,
Eric
Wait, why do you need the span EV charger to power your EV from solar other than to get everything Span branded? Doesn't your solar panel automatically do that anyway, naturally? I'm not an electrician nor am I familiar with Powerwalls but my lay understanding is that if your solar panels are pushing power onto your home's electrical grid, it will naturally go to what's connected and drawing power, ie your EV if it's connected during the day, etc. Isn't that why you can't use Powerwalls if there's a power outage? Power will leak from your home's power grid to the public power grid and possibly shock any power company repair people repairing the power outage. Thus, Powerwalls will shutdown during a power outage. Can someone more familiar with home electricity and home batteries explain this or can Ben explain this in another video?
Any news about plans to support more than one Span in one house? (Several of my circuits are on a sub panel)
Yes I believe so, did you see their latest presentation?
Nice. I appreciate the update.
Great video! Any idea of if and when SPAN will be accessible in Norway?
Anyone know where to buy one? The website site says I need to find someone who is certified. Called a ton of electric guys.. no one has heard of it. I'll install it myself... built my own tesla power wall.. just need to find one to buy ..
Ben is a data guy 🙂
Is it compatible with Home Assistant?
Alexa only currently
Totally off subject here but what guitar is that on the wall behind you by the way I appreciate the video
Yamaha Silent guitar. Used to travel with it when I did consulting
Can the SPAN panel be locked, so it is safe from unwanted manipulation when mounted outside?
Yes there is little latch with a lock
Hello.
Can I buy this ? I am from indonesia
I wouldn't install one of these under any circumstances unless I was planning move in less than 5 years. The issue is the company, Will SPAN be in business in 10 years, unlikely. They have no other products, no history and you are building the foundation of your electric system on it. Your circuit panel isn't going anywhere and 10,15,20 years from now this could be an enormous issue for a homeowner. One software glitch can kill the power to any circuit. I love tech and products but I just don't get the gain here and the ownership risk is huge.
Since I know your channel is about EV so I know this is probably a smart energy solution. I wouldn’t call it a SMART HOME panel as the smart home community would think of smart home system like Smartthings. This panel is certainly nice and can be a good subsystem to a smart home in the general sense
Yes it connects to Alexa and can be included in automations
Will you buys a span drive ?
The thing is a circuit could have 10 different items connected. So really don’t have separation. It is also a huge amount of work to replace my panel which is only two years old. In California you can’t actually live off grid if you are within the area served. Second is there aren’t any lenders for off grid homes.
My 48 circuit sub panel was costly enough.
Solar and car rebates in the form of tax credits are only good for people who make enough money to have a tax liability. If you have sufficient deductions already those tax credits are useless. The rebates need to be equal for all people and not just certain people.
I did not find how you felt about the unit after 10months, just a list of features. I know these features...
This is really interesting to me but to call it a smart panel is a bit of a stretch.
Does it connect to a smart home hub such as SmartThings or Alexa or HomeAssistant? Can it announce on my smart speakers that my dishes are done when the power to my dish washer resets? Same with my dryer. I want it to be able to communicate with my other smart home devices so that, for instance, if my pressure sensor recognizes that I'm in bed it can turn off the power to circuits I don't use while sleeping. This is what I think of when the words "smart panel" come to mind. From what I've seen, there's no connection between this panel and the rest of the smart home ecosystem.
I already have the following apps: two apps for my smart speakers, two apps for my smart locks, two apps for my smart locks, an app for my smart dryer, an app for my router, two apps for my lights, an app for my smart vacuum, an app for my air fresheners, an app for my smart switches, an app for my projector, and an app for my curtains. I don't want more apps. I want one app that can be used for my smart home.
I really like the look of this panel and I really like the data that it provides but until the panel's data can be used to interact with my smart home, none of that data is as useful as it should be.
It connects to Alexa currently and will be able to let you do all kinds of wild automations as the software improves. One specific thing I didn't keep in the video was it's ability to turn off some appliances (like an EV charger) during an outage to extend your backup battery. All kinds of possibilities
@@BenSullinsOfficial but can the breakers be turned on thru the app.
I'd love to see a realistic business case. I can't see installing this unless you are doing some sort of solar or other backup power system. Also... if SPAN goes under... are you dead ?
Timely video as I’m thinking of adding of getting solar and currently have 100amp service that is 30 years old.
good video. would watch more
Seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. That whole thing about detecting higher power usage when something is about to fail, is that even true? Or was that just something you made up to sell this product? Also, the redirecting solar energy to your EV, here in the UK we have something called a Zappi which is specifically designed to do this.
Yes resistance rising is definitely an indication that equipment is failing, especially anything with a compressor like AC or refrigeration
This gets rid of the need for a hardwired critical load panel. You can dynamically choose which items are critical right now, then switch to another set of items. No electrician required.
My worry about thos as well as every smart l product. Is simple. Sure they are being very consumer centered now. Whst about down the line. Will features end up behind a pay wall? Will they allow local or State government access to micro manage your power useage like they are. pushing yo do where I live? I am sorry but no matter how good it is I just worry about giving another little piece of my life and home up to a company to control.
Right
It would be nice if you could run it on your own home server that can run offline
Yup complete agaree. Alot of these features can be made to work offline. Also haveing locol control is the only way i would consider putting this in my house
This is a decent concern.
I’m preparing to disconnect my own home from the grid along with upgrading my solar tech (enphase IQ8 inverters & batteries along with this new span panel). Ill see if I can migrate all monitoring to home only as well.
If you care, post back here in 6 months and ill respond with my discoveries
@@mattbrew11 I'm curious if you ended up installing one of these at your own home and how well it is working with your enphase system. I have a solaria+enphase IQ8 install scheduled at our home and want to add two of the enphase batteries into the mix and wonder how well all of this integrates. I'm in western WA.
@@michaelwall3401 I have enjoyed the span panel but I ended up changing from enphase to sol ark because the enphase system really limited the amount of power available. If you do stick with enphase make sure you have the daylight power device in the mix else it will further diminish the output during power outages
👍😎🤩🤩🤩 THANKS BEN …FOR “ FREEING THE DATA “🤗😉 WE APPRECIATE THE TECH FUTURE AND EMBRACE IT AS MUCH AS WE CAN 😍😍😍
Seems like an unnecessary complication to life. Im a big geek when it comes to tech like automation and EVs and solar but this just sounds like something I dont really need. Might make sense if you're going to build new but not a retrofit. I still dont see the value. Just more data for companies to use.
shocking to see that your electrical panel is outdoors! aren't you concerned that some malicious player might turn your power off at the wrong time for you? [mine is inside the garage]
It's where your power panel was before. There is an option on securing/locking the panel with a lock through a hasp at the bottom. If you didn't/don't lock your panel now, why would you lock the Span panel?
Price for the panel (not including labor) $3500, that’s crazy because I buy a sub-panel at HB for under $200. I normally use three sub-panels for a typical house. I can’t follow the story about kids and detecting early equipment failure. Your explanation of the cost to replace a service panel does not follow a clear rational path. A span panel will cost about an additional $3000.00
My eyes can only roll so hard. A lot of the features seem like fluff that doesn’t end up helping you on a day to day basis. Plus I bet these die a lot faster than a “dumb” panel.
I tried purchasing this electrical panel without installation as I am a certified electrician. The company will not sell me just the panel. This is ridiculous. Seems like the company is running a bg scam. I'm also a purchasing agent for a government entity.
Must be really scary outside there. Good thing they have their masks on.
Love 💗 your work, from INDIA 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
Please 🙏 can someone help me how to procure lithium ion battery 🔋 for my home storage+solar
Or molten salt or anything as such , it's almost impossible to find here in India .here we only have lead acid battery which has very very low life cycle , especially with solar
Please suggest something
I just cant pull the trigger on this system because I have no confidence the company or its tech will be around long term. They will likely be bought out and you could be left with a dumb panel again.
sponsored content right? How much did they pay you to make this video?
Probably nothing. But he did get a free span out of it.
I’d love to have one!
Oh, and first comment. 🤣
Let me guess: you have a Samsung fridge?
WHat the hell is the point of the tile of the video. You did not talk about the truth you talked about the the things you wish you could do but cant due to the software not having the feature. On top of that this is a sponsored video for Span so how could we trust anything you said. The idea of Span is great but i would never allow this much control of my house to a system that can be controlled by a 3rd party. Oh also the cost of this thing is way higher then nomraly in anyplace other then California "it seems". 3 grand gets you a full install and new panel here in TX. We are talking about having to pay 6 grand to get this thing. If they sold the hardware and had fully local software that goes into home assistant per say then i would consider it.
In other words the panel is not worth it. We already have devices for much cheaper that monitor the load. $4500.00 panel for what again? So if it’s for monitoring then what is the point of the rest of your equipment? People with money will spend the cost for no reason while others will not and rightfully so.
👎
Mmmmm.
Hello from Alaska , south africa capital is Brussels
AVVO
Still very expensive 🫰 waiting for it to go down n hopefully it can qualify for government discounts like EVs