I Installed a SPAN Smart Home Panel, Should You?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
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In this episode, we'll explore the SPAN smart panel - the electrical service panel of tomorrow. As we move towards an increasingly electric future, there's been concern about the grid's ability to handle the additional load. The SPAN smart panel offers an intelligent solution with features such as smart circuit breakers, built-in sensors, and software to help manage our power consumption. We'll also take a look at some exciting use cases that demonstrate how the SPAN smart panel could help us save energy and create a more sustainable future. So join us as we discover the exciting possibilities of the SPAN smart panel. You can’t go ALL-ELECTRIC Without This!
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
03:23 How SPAN Can Manage Your Energy
07:55 Vehicle Charging
12:17 Battery Backup
15:18 Solar Panel Management
17:08 Cons
18:48 Planning
20:18 Conclusion
#SmartHome #SmartPanel #HomeAutomation #EnergyEfficiency #SmartGrid #SpanSmartPanel #ElectricPanel #HomeTechnology #SmartLiving #SmartHomeTechnology #HomeEnergy #SmartEnergy #GreenEnergy #SustainableLiving #SmartHomeSystems #HomeElectronics #SmartElectronics #EnergyManagement #SmartHomeSolutions #SpanPanel #SpanSmartHome #SpanEnergy #SpanTechnology #SmartHomeSpan
what we'll cover
two bit da vinci,smart panel,solar panels,smart home gadgets,tesla powerwall,going solar,smart home panel,span,span smart panel,span drive ev charger,span drive charger,span panel review,span panel smart electrical panel,span panel breakers,span panel home assistant,span panel solar,span panel app,SmartHomeSystems,span home panel,span smart panel review,span smart panel installation,You can’t go ALL-ELECTRIC Without This! I Installed a SPAN Smart Home Panel, Should You? - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I can see this tech is useful, what concerns me is the dependence on a proprietray app. Software should be based on open standards, e.g. so you connect to it via a web interface.
When people invest in hardware like this, they might expect to continue using it in 30, 40, 50+ years time. App stores might be obsolete by then, or dare I say it, some businesses fail so wont pay to keep their app available or updated.
+ Also they have to be idiot proof. Don't assume the next person living in the house will be tech savvy. They may be elderly or too busy and want it to "just work" by default.
It’s a fair point about proprietary software. I think he biggest challenge in that scenario would be newer versions that would still work on the newer device OSs. Perhaps if something happens to the company or if they discontinue these units they may release the source files or something so third parties can update it to newer platforms.
Agree entirely. Not only software obsolescence, but lifespan in general. Tech companies expect things to last a few years and then be replaced; the lifespan for property improvements is usually measured in decades.
Case in point: I replaced an old 'traditional' thermostat with a smart one a few years ago. The old thermostat had been installed since the house was constructed in the mid-80s and never skipped a beat. 3 years later and the smart thermostat is already showing a fault that needs a replacement (and it's not just an isolated example, the interwebs are full of comments about this fault on this thermostat - brand withheld to protect the guilty).
@@ipp_tutor: On your point of releasing the source code, that’s the hope, at least; if the current state of affairs is anything to go by, however, then I’m inclined to say that it’s never going to happen. We can’t even get the source code for games that were discontinued back in the early 2000s, so I won’t hold my breath when it comes to something as security sensitive as a breaker panel.
@@MinotaurUK Why would you withhold the brand? Tell us and maybe save someone the trouble. You tube is full of reviews on crappy products called out by name. They can't sue you or anything. I am getting ready to buy a smart thermostat and I want to know!!! :)
This is one of the most thorough reviews of SPAN Panel and Drive we’ve seen yet, Ricky! We love the fact that SPAN is turning your vision of a fully electric net zero home into a reality. Keep up the amazing work. ⚡
🎤 drop!
Do you have to subscribe to anything?
What happens when the Span servers go down, does that take the app down with it?
Can you self host?
Do you actually own it, or is it just a rental?
When I asked they told me no, why is he different? If they cared they improve the grid not limit it
@@Jcewazhererental, if they go out of business the app goes too, no self hosting, no backwords or forwards compatibility
Ricky should get credit for the fact that I just purchased a SPAN panel because of this review :)
This one was perfect. The fact that you can adjust your consumption, or even time it based on solar or grid prices using this device is amazing. And the SW able to talk to batteries and cars - just perfect!
I have similar thing done DIY using HomeAssistant and lots of integrations, more to come, but still - having this in one (beautiful) package is great.
Congrats to SPAN on the product and to the team for the great video.
Approaching 1 yr with SPAN. The Weekly updates are one of my favorites, like solar generation.
Seeing the "red screen" when the grid is down, but my house is running is WOW.
Supporting innovative forward looking people, priceless.
Such a powerful visual! We're glad to hear SPAN is helping you keep your home running when the grid goes down, James.
Where in the world do you live that "the grid is down"?
How is your house running? If the grid is down? I was told I couldn't because of backflow
@@VladimirMizichanywhere it can happen
Already have 400amp service. Everything is electric, but also efficient, e.g. the upstairs mini split is almost not noticeable on usage. But with 52 solar panels the bill is often down to single digit.
I’ll bet you could get a lot more from wind ;-)
I've been wanting the SPAN panel since I first heard about it last year. I acquired an F150 Lightning last year, along with their Charge Station Pro (EVSE). My goal was to have the full V2G functionality (whole home backup) and monitor/control all of it with the SPAN. Since SunRun is Ford's partner for the Charge Station Pro installation, and SunRun is also a SPAN partner, all was looking good. Until they (SunRun) told me that they would not install a CSP and a SPAN panel together. No real explanation as to why, just a hard "No".
I've been in limbo on all of it ever since. I've been waiting, hoping that something would shake out, and this would become a supported configuration. I've also been following the build out on the Transport Evolved channel, as they are doing the same thing I want, but without SunRun as the installer. They've had some hurdles, but last I saw, they had it functioning. I'm waiting for a follow up after a little time for them to report on how it's going.
I would love to see Ford, SunRun, and SPAN all sit down together to work out a cookie cutter solution.
(insert Futurama 'take my money' meme here)
Sunrun was very difficult when I dealt with them through Costco. They wanted to put my LG chem power wall on an outside wall that gets afternoon sun and sees 110 degree temps in the summer. I was arguing it would affect the longevity / lifespan of the battery and was willing to pay more to install it in my garage. Finally I got them to move it and I happily paid more. Then came the day of the install, they had an apprentice that was one of the main installers nephew work on my main panel, he had to move the main power breaker and re-arrange stuff. I was slightly annoyed after all my labels were now incorrect. However, 2 months later when my main breakers caught on fire from improper installation (not fully seated according to the next electrician) I contacted sunrun initially and they said it would take 1.5 months to come out and look at my home without power. I hired my own electrician, who told me it wasn’t installed correctly, 2 days later I had a new main panel and 2k in credit card debt. I was able to trade some stuff I had for some of the labor to keep the cost lower. However, sunrun is trash and Costco ended up giving me money back after this experience. Sunrun played games with emails and all kinds of stuff until I finally gave up. The company is apparently too busy to help their customers so be warned!
Perhaps this is a European perspective, but whilst this is undoubtedly very cool, I can't help think it's a solution looking for a problem. Most of the supply feeds over here in the UK are 60A or 80A. Outside commercial sites, i.e. people running workshops from their garage (and I mean heavy machinery like lathes, laser cutters, etc., not portable power tools), I don't know anyone who has needed a service upgrade, and that's even with EV charging.
1. Whilst there are some very powerful EV chargers out there, realistically, how often do people actually *need* to fast charge their vehicles? I presume most people plug them in when they get home, then as long as they're ready to go when they leave home in the morning, I suspect most of us don't really care how long it takes. So you can either 'slow charge' the vehicle over the course of 10 hours or so, or you can delay the charge until after your high draw activities have finished (i.e. after cooking dinner).
(Alec over at Technology Connections makes the case for slower EV charging in one of his videos).
2. How often, realistically, do people actually run all their kitchen stuff, their washer/dryers, and charge their car(s) simultaneously? Can't speak for others, but I have to try *really hard* to push my instantaneous usage over about 10kW - and that's with a UK kettle, oven, and microwave, as well as washing machine, all running simultaneously.
3. I suspect a lot of what this does could be accomplished locally/offline using some low cost smart plugs running Tasmota or similar. I already have them connected to my 'high draw' devices like washing machine and dishwasher. Shelly even do some smart switches that fit into the standard DIN rails on consumer units for higher draw devices on dedicated circuits like ovens. So I know, for example, that the most my washing machine will ever draw is about 2.7kW, and even that's only for a matter of a few minutes at the start of the cycle when it's heating the water.
4. It seems like this would create a single point of failure. At the moment, most consumer units are pretty 'dumb' - the most exciting things in there is an RCBO, and if it develops a fault, it'll just break that circuit (e.g. one ring main, etc.); it's pretty rare for a fault to knock out a whole consumer unit. But now the consumer unit has a lot more smarts, what happens if it develops a fault? Does it revert to dumb mode? Does it fail gracefully? Does it just shut off power to everything until fixed?
this is exactly what I wanted to see, I was struggling with the idea of how the grid could manage everyone going full electric. thank you for sharing this
Search on TH-cam:
_Volts for Oil | Fully Charged_
Electricity used to refine oil, when wound down as all move over the EVs, the electricity turns over to charging cars.
@@johnburns4017 - in a lot of places (probably everywhere) OIL is used to refine oil.(often refinery waste products)... EM misinformation and soundbytes abound - the 13kBTU used to refine oil - yep not sourced from the power grid - mostly.
There is no such thing as "full electric." Large ice storm = mass death. And a repeat of the Burckle Impact or 536 A.D. would kill massive amounts of people.
Hey Ricky! It's Tim from Drivyn. About how you mentioned California has too much solar and not enough storage at the Tesla Club meeting. What if the power companies incentivized businesses to put in free chargers for employees to help the grid during the day/peak solar production to stabilize it by providing a place for all that energy to go? 🤔
Hi Tim, just from the real estate / development point of view here in Los Angeles. The state and different counties are starting to incentivize but that adds to the upfront, out of pocket costs. How do you keep the costs of rents affordable when you have to add more to the construction costs?
Batteries need generation to soak up. Its a balancing act of sorts but one for which balance is actually not possible because both sides of the equation need to continue to scale massively. So while it is true that California needs a lot more storage, it is not true that California has too much solar. California actually needs at least 3 times more solar than it has now, and probably more. Otherwise there won't be enough generation for storage systems to suck up.
Hi, electric companies just limit your production by changing the frequency.
They are in business to make money selling you power.
Get a home battery and an electric car with bidirectional charging. Job done.
Take care M.
@@markeh1971 Electric companies don't actually do that. In fact, it is essentially impossible for the electric company to vary distribution line frequencies on anything smaller than a regional basis (covering hundreds of thousands of homes). If even that. The frequency will vary naturally based only on very, very large-scale supply and demand imbalances. So, at best, UL1741 can only be used as a regional failsafe, or when off-grid, and that's it.
@@markeh1971 I have 2 Tesla's. Even if they did have bi-directional charging, I wouldn't use it. I'd be wearing out my batteries without even putting miles on them. I'd rather have a powerwall for that 🙂
We love our Span panel! We installed it in 2021 when we installed solar panels and a Power Wall and the main 3 reasons were 1. We had to upgrade our service anyway, 2. We were switching to heat pumps to completely replace our natural gas heat and 3. We didn't want to be without heat in a New England winter by limiting ourselves to the circuits on a critical load panel. I appreciate that we're on the same journey toward energy independence! We're 2 years free of natural gas in our home and with no service interruptions thanks to span and the other upgrades to our home. Keep us posted on how it's going for you!
I love your videos, keep up the good work. I've been monitoring my own usage, and I'd like to add that heat pump water heater is like an extra refrigerator... under 1kW while running and not a concern. A microwave, also under 2kW and not much concern. The big draws for me (besides something like an EV or HVAC) are a resistive heat dryer, electric oven, especially pre-heating, and running multiple stove top burners. Span looks really neat, thank you for the informative video.
Have you looked into a clothesline or clothes horse? Resistive dryer is a lot of juice!
Very cool, ad or no ad, this is a product we need to know about - thanks dude!
Technology Connections recently did a couple videos on this that are very good also.
I would love this thing to manage my loads. Truly awesome tech. Thank you for promoting this!
This is something we have had in the UK for many years as far as the EV charger goes at least by way of the Myenergi Zappi. It does the load shifting from solar excess to EV but an underused maybe because it is not known by many is the Zappi also has a setting where you tell it the max supply capacity which will change the power usage based on that. It does also take into account battery input from solar storage. I think in the UK at least where AC is uncommon residentially it makes sense to have this in the EV charger not the CU it's likely to be the only thing to push the property over the 80-100amp feeds most UK houses have.
Yep, I was about to say it sounds like the Myenergi range of products in the UK
I can do this without Span, but I do a lot of baby sitting. My panel is outside and I'd hate to put the Span panel outside in phoenix. I'm happy a company has come up with one of these. Solar + Storage + a monitoring app is a data junkie's paradise.
solid video! this fills in some blanks. very helpful
Can Span compensate for switching inductive loads? Can you tell it what loads are resistive? How can we find out what the inductive surge currents are? Does it measure inrush currents to help tune it?
Keep going Ricky! Great channel!
I have a solar, battery and a span panel. The biggest limitation of smart panels, ie. it's not just Span, is that the usefulness is limited by how your house has been wired. For example, my internet connection is on the same line than many non essential loads. So I have to keep the non essential loads as critical and powered in the event of a grid outage, potentially using some of the battery...
With solar panels can you use the solar power first to power your home then the house battery third car battery?
Love the fact that @1:16 in the video, you show an electrican doing something that would cause many an inspector to fail the install. The idea of using a box cutter to strip the insulation back on the romex means that the knife may have also breached the internal insulation. I've had inspectors fail inspections for this specific reason. While usually it is at outlet where electricians screw this up, in your video you show the very activity that goes against code and good practice.
Also, at 5:58, who drives on the left side in Californi?
(Amused) reminds me of another sustainable channel with an advert with clip of a solar installer who doesn't seem to have a safety harness on and I don't recall a safety barrier around the edge, although I may have missed it. Granted the US is behind my country on solar panels so it wouldn't surprise me if the safety standards are also behind. It used to be a safety harness vs someone without was one of the ways to tell the professionals from the cowboys, now apparently in parts of my country if you don't go for protective scaffolding around the edge they start asking questions as to why you didn't use the safest option available as said options are much cheaper and easier to install than they used to be.
🙋♂️THANKS RICKI,for trying to enlighten us 🤔and Span the future 😁💚💚💚
You talk about keeping the excess energy with you if you're not being compensated, but you don't mention the need for a battery backup to store that excess energy. In your scenario you mention the Tesla, but you also mention it being fully charged. There would be no where for the electricity to be stored in my house without batteries. Or am I missing something?
One could store that energy in a hot water tank by heating the water extra hot and have a mixing valve as the water leaves so that no one gets scalded.
Storage tech is yours to choose. If the panel can divert power to the aféala, it’ll be able to send it wherever you want to store it. But of course, that storage doesn’t come with the panel.
Thanks Ricky, another great and informative presentation. You briefly mentioned your pool might not be on your “critical” circuit list. Does that mean that you have an electric heat pump for heating your pool? I’m thinking of putting a pool in at our San Diego area house and the design/builder is kind of pushing a gas heater. I’ve already got solar panels and would prefer a heat pump combined with the roof top pool water blankets. Would appreciate your comments
Thank you. Another important upgrade will be if SPAN could talk to the grid operator, for a smarter grid.
If you have a battery and an electric car can span use the car for house power?
The most efficient heat pumps are VERTICAL ground source heat pumps; they drill a few bore holes which are only a couple of inches across, but they go 200+ meters down, so they reach areas which are constant temperatures all year round!
Horizontal ground source heat pumps require huge amounts of land & are less efficient.
Air source heat pumps are the least efficient.
I have done a lot of research into these & can guarantee that a vertical ground source heat pump is your best option; the bore holes take up barely any surface area & the more you have, the better they work. :)
If I were to build a new house, can the SPAN panel be installed in place of a traditional panel?
A no brainier for new construction. Either for this company and product or future products.
Lowering consumption is not always possible so this is a good option for load balancing.
Good information.
Thanks Tim from Washington State.
I previously lived in El Cajon with a solar system and loved it. Now I'm off grid in AZ. Would the SPAN system be possible for multiple buildings with on a solar island with battery backup and generator?
Another informative infomercial.
I was advised to get the heat pump first so that when they install the solar panels they will have an idea of how much load will be required. Does that make sense to you?
I only have a 50 amp service. does it work if you dont have internet?
At my old house, I could run my standard base line load, the electric oven and charge the EV. But if somebody used the hot water in the electric hot water tank came on then it would blow the main breaker. At the new house I don't have those issues, one is just me two I have a gas stove a gas hot water tank and a gas dryer. I didn't have a whole house AC at either house. I don't think it's a good idea to put all of your energy eggs in one basket there are things that gases ideally suited for producing heat is one of them. I would love to have a range that was a combination gas and electric a gas oven and an induction cooktop, but unfortunately those are really expensive, and out of my budget. I'm hoping to get a smart panel in the next couple of years and I think that'll be a huge addition, I use empora right now and The information it gives me has been pivotal in allowing me to effectively manage my energy usage.
I have solar with micro-inverters. I have a Generac whole house generator installed with a new combination transfer switch and 12 circuit entry panel feeding a 200 amp house panel inside the garage. I see that SPAN can handle solar (and I assume batteries.) Can it handle batteries if and when I decide to add them? By the way, I would think you would put a link to SPAN in your video description as you link to other providers.
Hi Mike! SPAN currently integrates with Tesla Powerwall, Enphase IQ Battery, LG RESU, and SolarEdge Energy Bank.
Do you have to subscribe to anything?
What happens when the Span servers go down, does that take the app down with it?
Can you self host?
Do you actually own it, or is it just a rental?
20+ years off grid with just a 1Kw system and today I charged my EV Ebike and went for a 20 mile ride to the store. I also ran my microwave, water pump, laptop and lights. Not hot enough for AC here but I can also run my 85 watt Evaporative cooler off that system just fine.
I can also fix my system myself and get the parts if needed. Just sayin...
I am very curious about home charging your tesla using the J1772 adapter. I use my Tesla mobile charger, but was thinking about getting a dedicated charger and one the things I was thinking about is using the J1772 adapter for my charging seems like it would be annoying. Currently, when I want to unplug and go, I walk up push the button on the handle, hang-up the cord and go. With any other charger I wouldn't have that button and I feel like that will require me to either go in the app or the car and say stop charging every time before I can unplug and go.
Since NACS is open I would love to see companies offer tesla charge handles with the stop charging button.
I thought all EVSE set-ups allowed you to simply unplug. Our Nissan Leaf has type 1 socket for the type 1 plug, the plug has a switch in the 'trigger'. As soon as you pull the trigger the EVSE cuts the power and you simply pull the plug. Type 1 is the standard in the US, (Europe: Type 2 probably has the same thing)
So your question over having to go into an app is moot, all charge plugs have this instant disconnect feature.
@@terryjimfletcher a typical J1772 can be unplugged, but Tesla has a latch in the port, so the car has to release the connector.
I bought a security ring that goes in the J1772 to Tesla adapter and prevents people from just unplugging the car, for charging in public.
In my experience I've only charged on J1772 a handful of times, and I have used the lock. So to stop charging and pull it out I had to either go in the car or use the Tesla app to tell the car to release the connector.
Maybe if I were to charge at home I wouldn't need the lock ring and I could unplug the J1772 connector and then the car would release the adapter. I might need to try that at some point.
Edit: the Tesla provided EVSE has a pushbutton on it that sends a signal to the car to unlatch. This only unlatches if the car is unlocked (or detects a phone key in the area)
Awesome video!
Is the SPAN panel safe for outdoors mounting like most breaker panels in SoCal?
Yes the SPAN Panel is rated (NEMA 3R) for indoor and outdoor installations.
@@span_io cool. Love it!
Love the new system! Cannot wait to see you get more "off the grid"!
For me the icing on the cake would be to have the ability for your EV power your house if needed. ❤
check V2L
Hi, I believe Enphase do a bidirectional charger.
Charge the car with solar and then pull some back when needed.
I like the idea.
Take care M.
Could the same net benefits be achieved at a fraction of the price by just installing a 'smart' car charger with load balancing (like Zappi in UK/Ireland) or any other charger with CT clamps around the incoming feed and telling the charger your service limit?
Also, a simple contactor that cuts out less essential appliance, like heating, when a short period operation essential appliance cuts in.
@@johnburns4017 Yes! I have this in my board at home for when my induction hob kicks in.
@@barryjdwyer
Yep Current sensing relays that clip into the DIN rail in the main panel. Set the current switching on the front of the relay. All neat inside the panel.
You can buy induction hobs that run on a 13A plug, or a 16A hard wired circuit. A 16A current sensing relay on say a few bedroom heaters will cut them out when the hob is on when drawing more than say 4 amps. Keeps the current draw within the main fuse limit.
I work in the electrical industry and have been saying this for a decade...time to integrate digital tech into residential power distribution! It's like the gas/electric vehicle argument, having capacity to drive 500Km sitting in a driveway when you only typically need 100Km. Same with service power where 200Amps is rarely ever used, not a zero possibility but still in the less than 1 percent range (otherwise you may have equipment lifespan & load issues). So it's time for power management at all levels. We can do it for EV charging but still have capacity issues for other loads! Well done Span!!!! If you need a Canadian representative let me know!! Maybe I'll knock on your door?
Thank you for the realistic review. Most cities require a 200amp upgrade though.
Another approach, especially those of us on $DG&E, is a battery back up modified to provide power when the grid load nears 100A. Just like the panel it levels out usage, but in this case, without compromise (except price is a bit higher).
On SDG&E, also power everything from 4PM to 9PM. That offsets part of the price.
I've tries to convince Sol-Ark to modify the software to their system (PV inverter, 48V inverter, 48V charger, transfer switch, grid input, & generator input). I've also asked them to include an EV charger that can charge the EV with excess solar, and from midnight to 6AM when the rate is lowest.
I'm a bit surprised that Sol-Ark wouldn't be able to do that already. It's one of the most programmable whole-house systems out there. A feature to limit service ingress amps to X by augmenting the house from the battery system... that's something I expect they would want to add to their feature list. Maybe try writing them a physical letter instead of using email. Address it to the "Principal Engineer" or something like that. It might get to the right person.
There is a bit of balancing act involved when grid-tied, particularly when it comes to managing grid import and export. No inverter system can track the load so precisely that it is able to completely intercept large changes in loads instantly... they will always impact the service for a short time. But programming a ramp is easy. Something like "Augment service from battery and solar by a minimum of (10A to 200A) as import from service ranges from (50A to 100A)" ... something like that would be really easy for them to add programming for I would think. It is workable as long as it has a few seconds to react. So ramps like that ought to work fine, but instantaneous responses are impossible.
@@junkerzn7312 Agreed! I have 3 of their inverters, and appreciate its capabilities. The cost here (San Diego) to pull a wire from the pole and installing a new main panel is near that of a Sol-Ark 15 (adds 62A) and a battery.
Reach out to them as well, maybe we can show them there is a market.
A lot of the consumption control, seems more tied to the SPAN Drive EV charger and that load, not the SPAN breakers themselves..?
It would be nice, if you don't have a Drive charger by them , to be able to soft-flip some "non-essential loads" off so you don't pop the main breaker, then turn back on when the temp load is ok?
Or, could it talk to the car API and not just monitor the miles/charge status, but also control the charge power directly in the car, eg lower amps? Or at least, like OptiWatt, stop charging temporarily entirely, until the load crunch goes away?
I'm also bit worried what happens to expensive software/cloud-driven panel, what happens if the company goes bankrupt or changes in say 25yrs... will it still work as a dumb panel at least, if the cloud backing smart features is no longer available? (some worry for connected EVs too..)
I don't understand how this is any different from a Smart Hybrid inverter on your solar panels? For example, on my SolarEdge Home, I have added a battery and car charger and then set where I want my solar production sent in order of preference at different times of the day, usually home first, then battery until its full, then car. These type of inverters are ½ the price of the SPAN and would seem to achieve the same outcome... Am I missing something?
Does it work if your internet is down?
Where is the intelligence? Is it all on the server, or is there some CPU and memory in the box?
Can you set it to turn on power to a circuit if you have excess generation. ie if you are generating excess PV at noon, can you use it to turn on the AC, then turn it off as generation goes down. Combine that with a smart thermostat to set lower temp during day. The idea being to "supercool" house with excess power that you cannot sell or save in a battery.
Has anyone asked if this gives SPAN the ability to just turn off your power at a flick of their control? If they can do updates to the system does that allow them to turn it off if you do not pay their monthly fee?
Is the span compatible with bidirectional charging?
Today, SPAN has not announced vehicle-to-grid or vehicle-to-home (V2x) bi-directional functionality. However, the SPAN system has been intentionally designed to enable the most intelligent home backup system, and we intend to continue building integrations and features for the most flexible home backup experience possible.
Oooooh looking forward to seeing the heat pump upgrades!
I like the idea of span panel.
I contacted span and I did the evaluation of my electrical panel.
I didn’t get the panel because I was waiting for IRA tax /federal benefits.
I took my time to evaluate my situation and responded later to the span person and I apologized for my delayed response.
I tried to contact the span person in 2023 when IRA was a law.
I got no response from span person and I even contacted another span person asking if my contact from span was still with the company.
I was told that my contact was still with the company and emails will be forwarded to my contact.
I did not any response from my contact who originally spoke to me.
Span could be a great product but I will never find out.
Man we're soo close :D The battery is the only thing left that really holds me back for the most part because of price and or tech depending on how you look at it. Just waiting for either the battery to come down or they switch over to some new chems on the design. Solar it self is already pretty close to getting grid power or less than as time continues and they increase the gird cost. Personally, if they like to really push the idea/value of their system - it would be have the ability for this monitoring system to have the ability to attach solar and battery for DIYers. Just a plug you plug in to increase the storage pools would not only help lower the cost on installing later down the road, but make it dead simple to upgrade as technology changes.
the nice thing re span managing loads, is that while it is expensive, it might be able to help intelligently manage battery loads, to hopefully reduce battery count...
each Powerwall being over $10k installed, that would pay for the span itself?
@@cgamiga It should, at least from a scale point of view. The problem is right now we need a system that fits everything all at once. Nothing smart about it. Thus that means larger systems and larger cost, but having the ability to just attached stuff over time to your pools of solar or storage - that lowers the cost by a lot. DYIers can copy installs and setups - thus saving a ton of money for their systems if the cental controllers can handle everything else along with balance loading.
Is the Span compatible with EcoFlow, Titian, etc. battery backup systems?
Good video, did you purchase this or did SPAN supply the panel and install it in consideration for a review? The concept is good, but first you need to know that it is worth the cost benefit of this panel. If you are reasonably not close to overloading your panel, then this may not be as beneficial. My point is that if the manufacturer paid for the item and installation then it is a free no brainer, but everyone else needs to determine that cost benefit, which you didn't discuss at all. Please disclose in the initial dialog section if this is a paid promotion. Thank you!
The internet of power control is a great idea.
You could even use the national grid to transfer your home electricity to your EV at work or if plugged in at the shopping car park.
Is this code compliant is the US? I.e. can I use this in a home and be code compliant?
Your 240v circuits didn't carry over to the battery? With the Sunpower SunVault 13 kWh we are able to use our 240v 30amp electric dryer straight off the battery, granted it can run it down so that we hit our reserve point overnight. It would be great if the Span system could integrate with full systems such as SunPower Hub+ as this will feed into the Span panel via the Service Conductor Entrance on the Panel. The Hub+ is the Solar Supervisor, Backup Pan, Non-Backup Pan, Battery & Solar combiner. This also includes the Microgrid disconnect and becomes the Main Service Disconnect for the Electric Service, if an intermediate (due to distance between Hub+ and Meter) or Meter Main Service Disconnect is not required.
Is the Span Drive gonna be bidirectional at some point to use ev as your battery system?
SPAN Panel and SPAN Drive are engineered to be extremely flexible hardware platforms. However, industry standards for vehicle-to-grid and bi-directional vehicle-to-home (V2X) functionality are still in early stages. While we have not announced V2X functionality with SPAN Drive at this time, we recognize this is a rapidly evolving space, and SPAN is actively participating in discussions around V2X. Stay tuned!
Can't wait to see you use the span to tell how much your dryer uses and how much the next dryer uses per load. That's my biggest unknown right now. Tried to figure a way to scrape Powerwall home usage data for a year, than use pattern recognition of the chart to estimate clothes dryer totals... alas, a little too tricky for me. Maybe GPT 5...
Can you put a cheap smart plug on your dryer and use that to calculate energy consumption? I have a cheap (£6.50) Amazon smart plug on my washing machine I've flashed with open-source tasmota firmware. I now know that a full wash at 30C uses about 0.27kWh and the same wash at 40C uses around 0.43kWh.
@@MinotaurUK You'd need to find a 240v smart plug. I've never found one of those.
They seem to be from the UK where all plugs are 240v haha. So it's possible but maybe harder to find the ones compatible with US 240v plug designs
@@tjs114 - lol, those are standard in much of the world - Jk, don't necessarily expect a European or Australian single phase 230-240VAC device to play nice with USA split phase 220VAC - ground is different.
All you need is a smart energy monitor wit CT clamps in your main panel. That is exactly what is inside the span panel. It's just fancy packaging and a well designed monitoring app that communicates with their proprietary current limiting EV charger. It's very similar to Zappi devices that do load shifting for zero export situations.
I contacted Span, would love to integrate into my home. I am looking for solar and battery back up. I'm sorry to say they do not service New Brunswick Canada. :(
I’d like to space out these purchases. Does it make sense to every year to make additions to take full advantage of tax credits? Year 1 span panel, year 2 solar panels maybe battery year 3? I know it might be cheaper to bundle.
I don’t think you can do the panel upgrade alone. It has to be tied to either the heat pump install or solar panel install to get the panel tax incentive.
90A max alt energy input? does that count again the 200A bus?
Can it install in commercial panel?
can't wait for my smart panel to have a subscription.
Sounds great this panel. Now I would like to watch a comparison of SPAN vs other makers, and also maybe a review of what's available in other parts of the planet, e.g. Europe.
22 solar panels plus 4 batteries installed, we don't have great lot of sun compared to where you live, we are now in Ireland, even so incredible drop in power that we used to pay for, hoping to put some wind power in at the end of the year and maybe another bank of batteries , not expecting to recoup the money more be close to totally off grid.
I'm amazed how low amp many houses are. My 80s duplex has 200amp and the electric company doesn't offer anything less than 400 for new installs and all the way up to 800amp for no additional charges.
This is a very useful and flexible product offering. It acknowledges the serious limitations of the existing power grid, especially in places like CA, where the grid is already badly over-loaded. However, if enough people have EV's to charge, no amount of juggling output is going to matter, if the grid simply isn't producing enough energy. Things like this are solutions for the top quintile, leaving everyone else to fend for themselves as the gap continues to widen.
Even 50 years ago they had things called rolling brownouts because the grid was badly over-loaded. That was of course when the heat was overwhelming, not a normal day. Same as CA. Now everyone is charging various batteries constantly, have AC, and multiple televisions and computers. Also, Now go look at a brand new television and look at that yellow EnergyStar stickers or how much LED bulbs use. The excuse of comparing our grid to those mismanaged grids that can't even handle home microwaves is not a good vision of the future.
Thanks for your great vids. One suggestion, this video, it took way too long for you to get to how the SPAN system worked. It would help if you summarized it's function at the very beginning within the first minute.
If you're using solar lets say enphase panels and battery can't their product/IT effectively do what span is doing from an EC/power mangement standpoint? Obviously it wont help with the overuse but if you're on 200 amps youre going to have a really hard time going overload and tripping a circuit
Span should develop a series of smart plugs that integrate with the SPAN smart panel, they could communicate with the main system and provide greater resolution for individual energy use. If your garage circuit reports pulling 1000kw, you have no idea where that might be coming from. Imagine plugging your fridge into the smart plug which is assigned to the garage circuit. And the SPAN app can now report that on the garage circuit, 1000kw are being drawn total, with 100kw being drawn by the fridge.
Smart plugs AND smart receptacles. New home installations could have the smart receptacles from day one, and use powerline networking to communicate to the panel. There's sooo much opportunity here.
Lol it would take decades to save enough money by using knowledge gained from this, to actually make it worth while
Awesome Ricky
3:02 thats not fair, just because others had money or took loans out to upgrade means im screwed when i get the money and permits?
To reach a new highs they will need help from devices itself. Think in your refrigerator, for example. There is no big difference between 4º and 6º Celsius degrees in the refrigerator or -20 vs -15 in the freezer, which means that the energy management center (SPAN here) can tell the freezer/refrigerator when its better to store cold because electricity is more available or it's cheaper.
Even better if it has some kinds of cold storage (a solid/liquid with a freezing point of the stabilizing desired temperature), so, somehow it can be estimated how much cold is stored there without changing the temperature itself (just from cold to liquid inside that storages).
Another use case, it you use some water heaters with its own heat water storage, some demand could be estimated and moved from one hour to another. For example, think in your washing machine that have a specific "hot water" input that it's activated when you wash with hot water instead (or as an addon) of the internal resistance. At the same time, the hot water source is connected to a hot water tank that use electricity as a source. So if the energy management center thinks that you are gonna use the washing machine, it can heat more water in the midday to lower the cost even if some heat is lost because the storage is not perfect.
There is multiple use cases where consumption can be balanced specially if the consumers can inform the "coordinator" about a future consumption.
Also I love the concept of priorities with batteries. While lights, refrigerator & freezer must be a priority, other uses can be cut in an emergency. That a system do it for you it's a great thing that avoid mistakes.
Most EV will only need a daily top-up.
Ezi pezi thing to do.
A "pop up" charger on the street for anyone to buy your excess power that would be wasted as "feed in" would be a good idea.
Many of my neighbours park on the street.
I really like this. But increasingly I have difficulty with net connected software appliances. Basically for the thing to work and to carry on working the net connected part of things needs to keep operating. Now I talking here in general, this in no way is a reflection on Span.
If you want a good example look at how amazon is bricking all Halo watches (admittedly with good refunds).
I wonder how long we can expect this class of connected devices to keep operating for? I wonder do they have fall backs for the net not being available, or the net services not being available. The panel on my house that was very recently replaced was 70 years old. Can we expect similar longevity from a Span panel.
By comparison my 10 year old TV most of the 'features' in it have long since stopped working as the net thing they connected to changed or died.
I like the sound of the product. But I wonder at its longevity.
It does have a fall back if the internet goes out. But you WILL always need a "network" connections I.E. The wireless router needs to be powered. This still doesn't mean they couldn't brick the software forcing the purchase of the next one.... I honestly did not think of this tbh. I was only focused on the fking INSANE cost's! And HELLA lack of installers driving up that price even more also, Then top it off with the braker cost's. Even Span's website says average finished install price is $10-12,000..... But I am 100% sure that is on NEW homes, BC in most places you have to bring the wiring to code, Considering 76% of the US is not up to code your looking at triple that cost's.
Plus if this is all about solar, And managing it's load to "power everything" ugh... That extra 10K, plus tax rebates would go pretty FAR just putting it in the solar system lol. Or batteries if it is just a back-up you want. This is 100% one of the dumbest things I have ever seen!
I wish this channel would go back to the Critical thinking channel it used to be and less of the BS shilling channel it has become! Like that ECOFLOW crap, Who is going buy something like that MASSIVE system??? Why would someone get that over getting a real system on the home for the same cost's but you get tax rebates over 2yrs. Plus increased home value like wtf. Only reason he did it was bc he was paid an got them for free....
Cool stuff. Great explanation as well!
Besides the up-front cost, the only worry I have is, with the added complexity, how long it will last. Currently, service panels, without recalls, etc. can easily last 50-80+ years! I just don't see this last longer than most other electronics. Say, maybe 10-15 years?
I could certainly be wrong.
Same here, and I also worry that they may add subscription fees later.
@@CoverYourActions perhaps for additional features, but I don't imagine they'd do that for features advertised now as being standard. But you never know. They could take a skim off the top down the road for selling power back to the utility. This could be good and bad. The bad is obvious, the consumer wouldn't get the full benefit. But, it could be good in that the company would be very motivated to make sure all their panels are always fully functional and they would likely have great support, perhaps even offering a rather extended service warranty.
At any rate, I wouldn't be a first adopter of this kind of thing.
@@mockingbird187 Here is hoping that you are correct.
recently my family was offered a replacement plastic panel for the house. the same one that is now banned in the UK.
these electrical managers go around trying to get everyone to replace whats worked perfectly all along with an expensive plastic fire hazard.
its the managers that need to be replaced imho
what is the maximum amount of SOLAR PV input?
Can this work with eco flow
Excellent presentation. I was the first to add solar in my 24 home complex and now , after two other owners added electric vehicles, PG&E told us that we would have to improve our service to our complex if anyone else wishes to add a battery electric vehicle. My covenant with the property is now grandfathered in. PG&E tells us we have hit Max usage with the old infrastructure. ☁️🥴🌨️ Does anyone have any possible solutions?
vehicle to load
If only I had the same system for my plumbing - standing down the cistern refill & rinse cycle to avoid a scalding in the shower would be great.
Our power plant (solar panels) made 102 kwh yesterday (34kwh was exported). I am so glad we have net metering so I don't have to worry about this stuff. But, the way this state is going, I'm not sure how much longer this will last and will need to store the extra power myself.
That’s a massive solar system! Do you have batteries? Or just use your net credits for night power?
@@aaronphillips1210 no batteries.
@@pilotboba ahhhh ok. I guess the grid is your battery with that many net exports.
@@aaronphillips1210 pretty much. I have no backup if the grid goes down. But saving 12k or so having no batteries is worth it for rare occurrences.
Is your house on a 100A breaker box? To my knowledge most houses around us are 200A to 400A. Our home is completely electric, we run our AC at 84 degrees. Nice Video.
For me there is a Big Elephant in the room, V2H implement that in to your Home , even if it means getting rid of the Teslas.
Wireless Biderectional car charging, naturally hughe solar and a 10-20kw Home battery and we are almost there. Cut the grid and if in trouble go charge the car and bring another 40-80kw/h in play.
What the frak only 100-amp service? Heck far in rural Alabama it's been 200-amp service for over 30 years.I know of houses built over 60 years ago that have a 200amp fuse boxes.
Is that 200amp at 120volts, or 200amp at 240volts?
Many UK homes at 60 or 80 amp, but always at 240volts
When new features become available for the SPAN panel, can you download for free?
At the moment every vehicle comes in and fills its tanks to max full with petroleum.
But average mileage, and average daily fuel consumption tells us that very little daily is required if daily top-up is done.
Home plug in at low topup rate would be ezi pezi most days of the year.
Plug in at work on a low topup rate would be simple.
Rapid charging will not be common most days of the year.
People get confused about real needs and the horse and cart type of fantasy.
You don't need a new panel you can get a EV charger that monitors the mains into your panel with a transformer.
Then you just set when to ramp down in the charging station software when there's a massive load on the service.
That's how we can use the mains to a multi apartment house to also feed a couple of charging stations without the great expense of running a new service just for the chargers.
Want it.....will have to save up for it.
SPAN is a cool device that provides a lot of flexibility for managing one's electrical systems. However, I would advise people to take a close look at their electrical usage patterns, grid reliability, solar generation, and costs before deciding on a system to manage their home's power needs. You don't want to pay for capability that you don't really need.
I have 125A electrical service in a 2000 sf townhouse. I have an EV, three heat pumps, an induction cook top, electric oven, two under sink electric water heaters, a 4.6 kW PV solar system with 4.8 kWh battery backup, and net metering. My electric bills typically amount to a fixed fee of $20/month for connection to the grid.
It would be a superfluous cost to install a SPAN system in my situation. By taking simple steps like scheduling the charging of my EV after midnight and staggering the use of other high energy loads, I've never overloaded the main breaker. I have a critical loads panel that's battery backed up in the event of a grid blackout, but can also switch the heat pumps, induction cook top, and oven circuits to the critical loads panel when there is ample solar power being produced to handle the load. Granted it's not automatic, but I can monitor and control most of the system using apps on my phone.
This simple customized monitoring and control meets my needs at a very affordable cost. I'd love to have a SPAN system, but it wouldn't make economic sense in my case.
Very good points and love the specifics. Thanks so much for your input. It really adds value to the conversation.
I’m starting to think that a SPAN panel may be more warranted in places like convenience stores that want to offer EV charging service to their customers or homeowners with particularly large power needs in a place with particularly low power availability.
Either way, I still feel this type of hardware is more for convenience than anything else. Oh, and its pretty cool too, hehe
So you have to pay for ballancing the load on the grid?
What!!!! Iphone best web browser??? What world do you live in!!! I love your channel Ricky! Thanks for your hard work!
I’m thinking of erecting an off grid car port. The primary use this off grid system would be to charge an EV. The second purpose is a separate off grid electrical system to run critical loads like the refrigerator, internet equipment and emergency charging for neighbors to charge phones, laptops and medical gear. There will be separate outlet that this equipment will have to be plugged into. I live in the San Diego area, if a major earthquake occurs, the grid could be out for weeks.
The biggest issue in this plan is the variability of solar power. Batteries could be used to buffer power, but they are expensive and multiple batteries would be required. I wonder if this SPAN smart panel and custom EVSE would allow me to intelligently control critical loads without a battery or at least not need more than a single Powerwall.
Great stuff! - (Detail…Suggestion: When writing on a white board don’t talk to the board. Take a short pause, draw, then turn & face your audience & resume speaking.)
Grid electricity supply and gas supply will get expensive as customer demand falls.
I bet that they increase daily supply fees and connection fees as demand shrinks away.
Sorry Ricky, raise your hand if you're at home at noon charger car. I'm assuming there is a huge population that works 9 to 5 or such. Which means they can't do that and would have to have larger batteries at home to charge the car after.
Whatever you do, do not buy span panel is pairing with Enphase. Been 6 months for me since install and still doesn't work as it should. They keep open tickets and closing them. Not sure how it works with other systems, but doesn't do well with Enphase.