'All right, sweethearts, what are you waiting for? Breakfast in bed? It's another glorious day in the Corps. A day in the Marine Corps is like a day on the farm: Every meal's a banquet. Every paycheck's a fortune! Every formation's a parade! I love the Corps!' - Sergeant Apone
"Hudson! This little girl survived longer than that without weapons or training. Am I right (looks at Newt)?" Ripley Newt salutes. "WHY DON'T YOU PUT HER IN CHARGE!?!?" Freaked out Hudson
Oh, the Colonial Marines are badly led and poorly equipped, are they? *_stares_* *_in_* *_noncom_* Look into my eye. It's important to remember that just barely half a squad (and most of those injured), in a fighting retreat, outnumbered hundreds-to-one, with a broken chain of command, three unarmed civilians in tow, and running low on ammunition, that single fire team of Colonial Marines still managed to wipe out nearly half of the entire xenomorph infestation by themselves. If the operation hadn't been meddled with by Burke from the beginning - I blame him for putting Gorman in charge, and Gorman's only real mistake was being a career-minded rookie officer who hadn't yet learned to listen to his sergeant - then the outcome would almost certainly have been the extermination of the entire xenomorph hive and the successful reclamation of the colony. Regarding the USCM's gear, the Power Loader was designed to be a sci-fi forklift, not a weapon. The fact that Ripley was able to use it as a weapon is a testament to how skilled and creative she was. And the Colonial Marines _do_ have actual combat exoskeletons, which are faster and much tougher than normal infantry. If memory serves, they usually pack a motion tracker, flamethrower, rotary cannon, rocket launcher, and high-energy laser. Saying the USCM's exoskeletons suck because the Power Loader isn't terribly effective as a weapon is like saying the Navy is useless because transport ships are vulnerable. As for the personal armor and weapons, they're fine. They do exactly what they were designed to do, and they do it well. Boron carbide is an incredibly hard and durable substance, and has good heat tolerance - the kinds of attributes you want in armor. Besides which, body armor is there to give a soldier a second chance, not turn him into a walking tank, so taking a couple rounds of incoming fire is all it needs to do - and the USCM's armor does that just fine. It served well in human-vs-human conflicts, which is (despite the movie's focus) the USCM's main fight. The only Marine whose armor was breached in the movie was Hicks, and that wasn't from the aliens' claws, teeth, or tail spike, but their dying "fuck you" of acidic blood splatter. The M41A pulse rifle and M56 smartgun are proven systems, battle-tested against tenacious enemies that can shoot back. The only drawback to them I can see is that they're optimized for fighting humans, rather than Lovecraftian biomechanical horrors - and even then, they're still absolute murder against the xenomorphs. And that electric chatter they make when firing is awesome as hell, too.
Right on man. This is a solid post. Firepower is only so good as it is implemented effectively. Once the marines understood their enemy a little better they managed to set up effective fields of fire. The Pulse Rifle and Smart Gun are damn good sci fi weapons. The criticism here of the Smart Gun I thought was particularly daft and I think that criticism show cases what I suspect is a total lack of understanding of modern infantry tactics regarding the employment of Support Machine guns and Squad Automatic Weapons. The harness system we see with the Smart Gun brilliantly allows a larger machine gun (like the MG42/MG 3 the smart gun prop is based on) to be employed without a set up time or assistance of a second person and it has rapid and very precise target acquisition. The concept of “walking fire” dreamt of for the BAR in WW1 actually because effective and relevant. What this ignorant of fire arms application reviewer fails to see is that the Smart Gun is the application of a great deal of fire power into a very mobile platform when all is considered. Criticizing a gun designed for a SAW like capacity for not being as nimble as a sub machine gun is really damn dumb...and somewhat baffling as the Smart Guns prove their worth by basically being the gun that saved the asses of the marines when they were ambushed.
Its fairly obvious they never actually looked into the expanded universe for this, as most of their negative points are actually wrong when you look at that. The Platoon in Aliens was actually undermanned, and if it wasn't for Burke's meddling, a larger force would have been sent, also they were not expecting combat on LV426, as the colony actually already had a full platoon of USCM troops there. (See Aliens River of Pain, the prequel novel to Aliens) The point regarding armor is technically correct, it wasn't designed for combat against xenomorphs, as that species had never "officially" been encountered before, it was designed as traditional body armor. The USCM does use armored & armed combat exosuits, and they are frankly devastating against xenomorphs, for example there is "Alice" the exosuit used in AvP 2. As for using synthetics for combat, this was done, the entire marine force in the Aliens Earth Hive novel was made of synthetics, designed specifically to combat xenomorphs, also its worth noting that there are alot of combat synthetics around in the aliens universe. As for weaponry, the M56 smartgun may be a bit unwieldy, but consider its a fire and forget weapon, that decimates xenomorphs when allowed to be used properly, the main issue that it has in Aliens, is that they just weren't allowed to use it properly, and had already gotten into a situation were its use was limited (its designed to be used with properly armed squad support). The M41A pulse rifle, well, it was a monster of a gun, firing armor piercing explosive tipped rounds, which when fighting enemies with armored exoskeletons, is a godsend. Also its worth noting, that when the USCM actually started dealing with xenomorphs more commonly, they updated their arsenal to match, such as the nano rifles used in the "Rage War" series (admittedly they were developed to also deal with Yaujta. Mismanagement in the case of Aliens, defiantly, but also partially understandable by WY would want a representative along, it was after all, their colony. But as a whole, the USCM wasn't badly managed, it was more often than not quite effective, its just early cases of Xenomorph contact were they are often mislead or more accurately, misinformed of the real threat. Training, well the example from the movie is dead on, they don't act like professional soldiers, they fail to follow basic tactics, planning, etc. But in the expanded universe they tend to be quite competent, with their biggest weakness been the training is based on traditional combat, but they do quickly learn from experience and change their training to deal with Xenomorphs and Yaujta. Their tactics also adapt rapidly, but early on and in situations were they misunderstand the threat, they can be sorely lacking. As for the total force strength, yes its a bit on the low side, but its also understandable from an in-universe perspective, there is no real war to speak of, humanity has only encountered a handful of other Alien species, and none of them really aggressive at this point in the universe's timeline, that all changes later in the timeline, their force massively increases. You also have to take into account, numbers aren't everything, they are equipped to fight a technological enemy normally, using heavy weapons, artillery, orbital bombardment, even ship to ship combat. The marines aren't really equipped for "bug hunts", they are equipped for smashing entire hives from a distance. Imagine for a moment if the APC wasn't disabled then destroyed, they could have driven a few miles away, and its mounted weapons would have smashed anything that moved from km's away. As Hudson put it "you could fry half a city with this baby", and that's a gun on an APC, not an MBT.
@@GenerationFilms I think really messed up when counting their weapons. Please look at xenopedia when doing research that very, because it's mentioned that they do use syths as supplement platoons for combat operations. That one flaw that they don't even have. Also in the movie, Gorman told the platoon not to bring ammo in the reactor for express reason you stated. Instead they were going with flamethrowers ( Ripley report pointed out this was effective weapons against the xenomorphs, and a platoon should have 8 units) with others acting as eyes and ears for flamethrower operators. So no splitting up your strength when you think that most your troops don't have ammo, you don't spread them out. I can keep going. Please, correct some things in your later video.
If you read the novelization or read the technical manual you would have to burn half this list. Also what you call a lack of a plan is them using standard tactics and its explained that recon team outside of Gorman were really salty.
I think its just that they needed 10 flaws and they only had 1 canon movie, a couple games and a little bit of wonderful conjecture sources to go by. They had to find SOMETHING. Just my opinion.
The way they infiltrated was 100% correct. You don't split up a unit when you don't know the environment. You also don't talk or "bark" orders during a mission. Are you new to this whole tactical thing?
Don't forget they train for defending Colonies and their bases are generally cookie cutter in design. Secondly they were hunting Aliens, usually alien/animals cant understand jack including English.
@@lancer737 I'm very familiar with the fact that he served. That has nothing to do with the critique of the film made here. In fact, that reinforces my original comment. You don't worry about sound because your enemy can understand English, making a sound gives away your position and ruins any chance of having the element of surprise. Which any tactician will tell you, is the most important thing in combat. That is not an opinion or up for debate. Glad you could learn something.
@@blaze556922 Which Agian means nothing when you are exterminating animals while having the detection capabilities they have. Motion trackers, infrared and Ultraviolet, not sure on ultraviolet. But the problem is, I think you are forgetting that they have lots more mobile surveillance equipment than we do in real life.
@@lancer737 They didn't use infrared either. Motion trackers also is a reason not to split up. You're actually making my points for me and don't know it. All of the tech they use, we have in real life. You really don't seem to have a clue as to what you're talking about my friend. No offense...
For the armor, their is a chance the marines could get in a firefight with human infantry. Other human nations had spaces forces and they were built for that not Aliens.
Jedi Master exactly right. Those who don’t know the extended universe think when they call it another bug hunt in the hangar, think they’ve encountered Xeno’s before. They mean other alien like bugs ( read Aliens: Bug Hunt ) This is the first time the colonial marines had encountered the xeno’s so were super unprepared
a few things ide like to point out. 1. Gorman. He was an idiot, of course. but it kinda makes sense. the Marine were going to see why a colony stopped talking. They didnt believe the Alien nonsense. i think we can easily explain gorman there because his superiors wanted to give him experience in the field doing something they figured would be simple. 2. the equipment is good. not only is it flexible, we also see that troopers are allowed a bit of freedom. hence the Shotgun one of them brings out. they can personalize their arsenal, which i think would make them more effective 3. dont pick on mah bby the powerloader. she smexy
Also, of course the power loader isn't suited for fighting aliens, its FORK LIFT. Its for picking up heavy stuff, moving it and putting it down somewhere else. Complaining its not suited for combat, is like complaining that a semi-truck is bad at F1 racing
I think they did confirm Gorman was sent because behind the scenes WY did want an inexperienced CO that would keep with WY interests to go. Also I made a list of CM Power Armor, they said they would reference them but didn't :(
@@weldonwin Or complaining that a General purpose machine gun is ill suited for interior fighting. Besides that the smart gun is damn god weapon that can automatically tracked targets and move it's barrel ( later version the bullets change direction, so it's literally get them in line of sight and let loose) to hit him. At high rate of fire, while allowing the user to walk while firing. It Should be advantage, not a weakness.
@@joshuawilliams9020 The issue the Smart gun had in this instance, was that it was designed to track targets by their heat signature and the xenomorphs are thermal chameleons that blend into the ambient temperature of their environment. Oh and the reason the Colonial Marines don't use more androids is because A) Androids like Bishop are incredibly expensive and are far too cost intensive to be considered expendable and B) Combat Synthetics are *SUPER ILLEGAL* , like outlawed by the revised Geneva Convention, to the point that using androids in combat roles is considered a warcrime.
Also, I gotta say that the smart gun is pretty good. Its weight is held by the harness--not the arms--and its aiming is computerized. Have you played Aliens Colonial Space Marines? It's a special weapon that the platoon uses for general purposes, just like an army platoon has machine gunners.
They do actually use some small unit tactics; they have grenades & LMGs and a fairly good rifle. And an ok APC. So they beat Verhoeven's Starship Troopers. I rated them a 3, vs 2 for the VSTs, and 4 for the clone troopers.
The USCMC has a plethora of weapons at its disposal. Not only do they have the heavily featured M56 and M41A, but they have firearms for _any_ combat scenario such as: 1. M41A Pulse Rifle MK2 2. M41A/2 Pulse Rifle 3. NSG 23 Assault Rifle 4. M4RA Battle Rifle 5. M39 SMG 6. M37A2 Pump Shotgun 7. MK221 Tactical Shotgun 8. M5 RPG 9. U4 Firebomb 10. M20 Claymore Mine 11. M4A3 Service Pistol 12. 88 Mod 4 Combat Pistol 13. UA 51-C Automated Sentry Gun (how did you miss this one???) 14. XM99A Phased Plasma Pulse Rifle (Mentioned by Hudson) 15. P9 SHARP Rifle (Hudson calls it the “Sharp Sticks”) 16. G2 Electroshock Grenade (Hudson calls it “Sonic-Electronic-Ball-Breaker) 17. M240 Incenerator Unit (Again-How did you miss this one?) There are many more. I only listed a few that I know. (Read the Colonial Marines Technical Manual-it lists many awesome never-before seen marvels of USCMC technology)
The lack of back home oversite is due to a 4 week round trip message time between LV426 and Earth. There is no FTC communication. This is stated in a scene in the extended edition of Aliens at the LV426 colony.
You almost touched on the biggest weakness, but you ran on past like a freight train. The biggest weakness was how powerful the M41A's were. The AP rounds were what cost them victory. If they had a less potent round (Vasquez was seen to take out a Xeno with what looked like a 1911 or similar) for the auto's, they would have done much more damage in the nest. There were 158 colonists. Since Newt wasn't bread, that means 157 Xenos. We know one died as it hatched, 156 Xenos. We can assume one died to burn the hole through the roof of the colony building near the start. That leaves 155. Queen: 154. So there are 154 active xenos.With 100 standard rounds each, 8 Marines (not counting Smart Gunners) means 20 Xenos each. that's 5 bullets per Xeno. If they had standard ballistic weaponry, they would have done fine. . . . . . . . .
Dude, the AP rounds were the reason they could kill them at range at all. When Vasquez shot that alien with her pistol, she had to get it point blank with multiple shots to penetrate its carapace. EDIT Also just remembered that Gorman shoots his pistol at the xeno that blocks their escape when he's dragging Vasquez, and the bullets literally bounce off its head.
Gorman was shooting an officers handgun. Looked like an El Alamein PPK, an 8mm. A strong look would stop one of those. Vazquez pumped a few rounds into a Xeno before she pinned its head against the wall. Then she put another few rounds in. Problem is we don’t know the Xeno physiology: she might have shot it in something analogous to a humans sinus. Also, the Xenos are basically eusocial insects: they can likely take a lot of punishment without it showing.
Obviously you haven't seen Aliens or played any games. The abilities of the Smart Gun are much, *MUCH* better than you said. It has a harness that makes the gun light and very maneuverable. It has a lock on feature that works with a heat sensor or, even better, a motion sensor. A high capacity for ammo and that ammo tears armor apart. So long story short, you don't know jack about this beauty.
If you read the books, later on the Marines outfitted with power armor, smart guns, and plasma weapons are able to solo groups of aliens and depending on skill are on par with yautja.
1. Automatic is not an option with current weapons because it's ineffective except for suppressing fire. 2. Officers don't eat with enlisted 3. (Good) Marines aren't openly insubordinate like Hudson was. 4. The Lieutenant should have pulled the platoon out to rearm and redeploy.
1. I agree that the M56 smart gun is a clumsy weapon to use in close quarters. Plus it inhibits their ability to dodge physical attacks or take cover. 2. It was stupid for Gorman to order the Marines to eject their pulse rifle magazines leaving them almost defenseless. 3. Was it necessary for the entire squad of marines to land on LV4. I mean they could've kept other personnel on standby aboard the Sulaco to mount an emergency evac.
They looked and acted like they ended up in the CSMs as an alternative to going to jail. That whole group was probably some commanding officer's headache and he assigned them to the first long range, low profile, backwater operation he could just to get rid of them.
Correction. in the lore not shown in the movie the smart gun is called just that because it tracks and its ammunition locks on to enemies and chases them until the target is hit or the round is blocked. Since xenomorphs are fast having a tracking weapon with tracking ammunition is great despite being bulky.
i think there is a counter for vazquez lmg´s weight point you made, in the film they used converted steady cam structures to carry that heavy weapon, so it helps carry the weapon for vasquez, making it more light in her hands as the weight of the gun is distributed to her lower body, And in mobility and she doesnt have the carry the thing she can rotate it much faster, what Is a downside is the fact that aiming down sights is nearly impossible and the gun has too high a rate of fire given that the xenomorphs are really fast but not tanky, it´d be better suited power than rate of fire, as it would burn ammo much quicker
I love these Marines, and considering they thought they were investigating a downed transmitter and that's why only a single platoon was sent kinda destroys a lot of the arguments here. Also at the start of the movie when they get down to the moons surface all the bull crap they showed up in orbit is gone and they are 100% professional until it hits the wall and they are ambushed by nightmare monsters they were never trained to handle .. that NO ONE was trained for. The Colonial Marines main enemy were other humans as is stated in that manual you kept referencing which is perhaps why their armour isn't as great as other Marines in this series. Their tech, armour and weaponry was as cutting edge, or more so, than their usual enemy in the field.
FLAWS of your LAWS video. In AvP2 game there was an armored Exosuit available for Marine use. It had a flamethrower, twin rotary gun, a laser gun and rocket launcher. Single suit could slaughter hundreds of xenomorphs, before running dry and even then laser gun had rechargable ammunition. In AvP2 and AvP (2010) games combat androids were utilized. And were much more effective than Colonial Marines. They are illegal though, for some reason. Smartgun has autoaim function. Also, Colonial have other weapons that are much more effective against Xenos and other Marines alike.
@@frankg2790 read aliens: colonial marine technical manual than. That APC Should have a plasma, laser, or particle cannon as a turret mount. I mean their weapons are well thought out.
And the directors cut had sentry guns, automatic machine guns tied to motion detectors and IFF systems. A couple of them survived the APC explosion and were set up in the tunnels which they wielded shut, and really thinned out the heard. The only problem is they didn't have that much ammo, only 1000 rounds each left after the wreck.
@@frankg2790 Nobody cares what some pissant paper pusher says is or isn't canon. Nobody who enjoys something like the Alien setting and stories cares what the current IP owner claims is or isn't canon.
I always assumed that Burke was acting on his own authority going to LV426, and a single platoon (with a green commander) was all the force he could get from the CMC. It wouldn't surprise me if the corps sent him a platoon that was one if it's "less exceptional" ones too.
I liked this segment because it brings up things I had never considered before. First and foremost is that, if the Colonial Marines are based on the U.S. Marine Corps, then its ships should be run by the Navy. At the very least, that would allow for rescue and battlefield management. Seeing how Bishop was among the people in cryo-sleep chambers, who monitors the medical conditions of the crew while they are frozen? Who responds to internal malfunctions or emergencies (such as seen in the beginning of Alien 3)? Who responds to external ones like asteroids and solar flares? For the record, this always bugged me (no pun intended) about the Nostromo, too. Can they really not afford for a few people to be awake, while the bulk of the crew sleeps? Why not have Bishop or another android around to monitor things? That said, how on Earth such a large ship as the Suvako only has about 20 people on board amazes me. Even worse, according to Ripley and Newt, there could have been 100 or more Xenomorphs running around, based on the size of the colony. That means that if all of the colonists had actually been alive but needed to be evacuated, they would have been shipped off in waves. Not even with both drop ships used could the Marines have evacuated even half that number. That goes to poor planning on the Marines. Also, leadership. Gorman aside, Apone should have recommended that the Marines fall back to the APC when he found out they could not shoot inside the processing center. He doesn't and that leaves his troops poorly armed, with a backup shotgun, a couple of pistols and two flame units. Had they fallen back and recalculated, they likely could have armed everyone with flame units. And you can't help but notice that the Marines were, in no way, equipped to rescue any of the colonists. They had no medical supplies or equipment to treat and/or evacuate injured people. How did they not have even a single corpsman or hospitalman in the group?
The small squad and the inexperienced Gorman was ordered through Burke by Weyland Yutani on purpose. They wanted the marines to be wiped out along with living samples of Xenomorphs (Burkes facehugger plan on Ripley and Newt). Bishop would have escorted Burke out
This would have left no witnesses to the knowledge of the Xeno’s save for Bishop ( a company synthetic anyway ) and of course Burke ( who would have profited as would Weyland Yutani
It's my understanding that in the outer colonies maintaining order was an issue so Weyland-Yutani basically created a PMC group that contracts to the government for peacekeeping missions
Ok, I have to say something about the smart gun, it is good against xenos. It has been shown in multiple games to be able to effectively track them and make quick use of them. And they come with harnesses to make them easier to carry so weight isn’t as much of an issue.
The smart gun took out a good chunk of the hive during their initial encounter. both drake and vasquez killed a bunch, at least half. the remaining aliens were mostly cut apart by the sentry guns. only a handful left made it into the med station.
+Generation Films The powerloader is not a combat vehicle, so you're reaching when you count it as a flaw against the Colonial Marines. You're probably right about a forklift being more efficient at loading munitions and moving supplies.
Can you make a video on the best weapons in fiction. Another on the best armor, another covering the best exoskeletons, one for the best training... and so on and so forth.
I think this video points out something that has disappointed me for decades and that is the lack of vision of James Cameron. This is the man who gave us "The Terminator," a movie about a future where humans battle cyborgs, robots and attack drones in the near future. Yet, two years later (1986), helms a movie based in the far future (2179) but models the Colonial Marines on the US Marine Corps of the 20th century. Aside from those automatic machine guns that got cut out of the original theatrical release, we don't really see much innovation or creative vision from him. I will give him some credit for Bishop remote-piloting the second dropship, but we did see the drones in "The Terminator." Martin Caidin broached the idea of cyborgs in "Cyborg," back in the early 70's. It became the basis for "The Six Million Dollar Man." Writers talked of robots, androids, AI and personal drones for decades. Cheesy television shows like "Battlestar Galactica" had robot dogs. In other words, it does not appear that Cameron or the writers really thought about what a Marine force of the future might look like., which is a shame considering the innovations Cameron created for "The Terminator." Imagine the Marines sending in an RPV or drone first to check the main complex or even the processing center. You could still have an exciting movie. You could have had a small group of colonists hiding in the processing center and the drones find them, but miss the xenomorphs due to them not having heat signatures. The Marines go charging in like the cavalry to the rescue and get ambushed. Oh, well. Hindsight is always 20/20.
The Powerloader is not a flaw. The British Army fields JCB telescopic handlers, backhoe excavators and other vehicles. They are not combat vehicles, they are there for specific jobs.
I want to add poor communication no one said why no armor piercing ammo was to be used, as in could cause a nuclear explosion so use flamers and shotguns and pistols. The CO should have told them that and had an escape plan in place as well to go with it if communications might be down. Even saying to the NCO's if something happens I trust you to scout and get the people out if combat demands using the armor piercing ammunition do so moving out of the area as quickly as you can laying covering fire with non-armor piercing weapons.
The last point is something I wanna ask something about: IRL the USMC functions more like an expeditionary force: Fast to deploy, make first contact and buy time for actual Army Units to do the "heavy lifting" (if needed). Given the fact that the Space Marines seem to be a extention or evolution of that, wouldnt that imply that their numbers are that small because they follow the same doctrin and the Navy or Army actually field the manpower to fight all-out-wars? Compare this to Halo where it is clearly stated that the UNSC Marines are the bulk of the fighting force in books (the kilo-five-trilogy) and the army is mostly "space-immobile" deployed on planets this would make sense.
I still think you guys should do space marines for warhammer 40k. Sure every soldier is super powerful, but they also have flaws like low numbers and every chapter being independent
9:41 Fission, not fusion reactor. You can shutdown fusion reactor in seconds. (It will likely "flame out" if you look at it the wrong way ;-) While it takes weeks to YEARS for an extremely-unimaginably-large-"regular" fission reactor to cut power to (near) zero.
hey a good end to all this could be putting the different factions against their competition's main enemy, like say put clone troopers up against xenomorphs.
If you acknowledge that the power loader it's not a weapon then why count it against the colonial Marines considering they would not rationally use it in battle
UNSC is getting a 5. Held off a force superior in numbers, technology, and positioning for 25 years. The UNSC army and marines even managed to win ground battles, and were only forced to withdraw when the Navy's losses in orbit put them at risk of orbital bombardment.
Ok so we are only rating them from the Film's. in the books there UNCM are much more organized and efficient.Quickly utilizing advanced plasma weapons and Sinth' Solder's as well as the acid resistant armour as after the 2st two attempts to capture a zenomorph narly results in the bugs invading earth.
99 10mm APHE aren't good enough. But seriously look at equipment from the aliens: colonial Marine technical manual and say it's not good. The failure in the movie was A) underestimating the aliens. B) mission interference by a greedy corporation. Taking a platoon that was sent on a cakewalk mission where they believe was most likely just a down transmitter, than saying that entire army must be horrible is not good. I mean space have lost entire companies to genestealers ( which where inspire by xenomorphs) and no says that space Marines suck. The problem is most don't read the books and comics that expand the lore just say colonial marines suck. I mean if I told a unit of colonial Marines went to the aliens home world and stole royal jelly. Name one other of these units that can sneak into the very center and steal some presents for back home.
That's a rather detailed reply for a simple (and meant to be innocuous) statement. And people tell me *I'm* a total geek! (rolls eyes) Anyway, no disrespect meant (well, not really anyway) but all I can do is go by what we see in the movie. Any other sources such as the Tech Manual, books and comics you mentioned I consider to be totally irrelevant. My comment referred to just this one unit in this one situation. Until another movie is made about the colonial marines, that's*all* I care about; the rest of the 'lore' is just made-up stuff written by completely different people to sell books to folks even geekier/nerdier than even *I* am.
Concerning #5, the future of the USCM was made up of a human commander and whole platoons of android marines. These units aren't even aware of they're biological status made with fake memory engrams. This isn't canon but it was in a comic series called the earth war, a sequel from aliens.
I heard rumors that there maybe a comic crossover with Aliens & Star Trek. I haven't heard anything new, so its most likely cancelled. Lets just say it isn't cancelled, my best guess is that the Next Generation will be used. Who would you rather have protection from, Star Trek Security or Colonial Marines?
@@rumsmuggler30 it makes me sad because they said they would use all my stuff as a reference in their last film and not a single thing I posted ended up in the movie...
@@rumsmuggler30 They do later in the history of the universe, along with high powered laser, plasma, and nanotechnology based weapons which allow individual marines to obliterate huge numbers of Xenomorphs and stand toe-to-toe with Predators and their advanced technology.
I wouldn't count the power lifter against them. Using it was completely ad hoc. It was never supposed to be a weapon. The exo suit "Alice" from the game AvP 2 is the better thing to analyze.
WHY? Why was there no one left on board the U.S.S. SULACO during the mission? Much needed equipment and weapons were left behind with practically no access to retrieve them. Not to mention emergency evacuation or emergency communication with "homebase" (Earth).
In the Aliens universe there is no FLT communication. A system of Drones are used for common comms traffic and packet ships are in place that delivers important messages.
the mission was purposefully undermanned by intent. Burke wanted as few people along as witnesses as he could get away with. After all if the situation was a result of his instructions to send people out to Ripley's reported derelict he didn't want any more non W-Y witnesses than he could deal with by a little treachery. A single platoon could deal with one xenomorph... such as the one Ripely encountered. ( Too bad she didn't know about the queens) And the sulaco was an automated ships they could operate by remote if they had too...so they could conceivably call down orbital strikes, or another drop ship is they needed it...Unless their first dropship, APC and the colonies uplink tower were out of commision at the same time...what were the odds of that happening.
one issue is their equipment is whatever they had when they shipped from base several years or decades...heck even centuries ago as no FTL travel seems to be available. I think was the last Alien film where it was commented to Ripley that these dropships are centuries old in design.
They do have FTL in aliens. It took the rescue force 4 months to arrive though, so not super fast ftl. I think it's like 1.4 lights year in one day. Aliens resurrection took place I believe a 1000 years after aliens 3.
Hollywood always makes regular forces (read: the _bulk of combatant strength_ ) appear hopelessly stupid and incompetent, so that it lies on the hero(es) to drop in and save the day.
Personally I’d include the terrans from Starcraft and the Xcom in the series, but otherwise great job! Can’t wait to hear the pros side of the colonial marines, while admittedly they’re probably the weakest of these “space marine” (with the possible exception of the marines from avatar) I still like them for their grit and relative realistic approach.
Once read the expanded lore on them, they also above the UNSC Marines in the raw firepower department. But UNSC has more advanced electronics and command and control tools. Saying that both are based off the US Marine... One platoon level it's probably who spots who first, on a larger scale comes down to who has the better Officers.
I disagree about he smartgun. The advanced auto aim function is an absolute boon to hitting a fast moving target, also the gun is able to track a target that the marine themselves might not be able to see clearly. Only in the tightest of quarters would the size of the weapon be a problem.
you do make a few leaps in your reasoning, they only sent 1 lot of troops because they assumed it was a downed transmitter, they were sent 'in case' there was truth to ripleys story, nobody actually belived her, exce[t Burke who is no expert on the military, this also applies to their tactics, sticking together where two smart guns can obliterate any sizeable force, small teams DO NOT split up when searching a building, they clear rooms one by one
DId you really knock them because of a power loader? How is that a knock against the Colonial Marines in anyway seeing as they would not be using it for combat.
Please keep way. I am an alien negotiator who does not kill the alien. My mind set has been proven to be infectious but only after prolonged exposure. My mind has not been wiped because this mindset has proven to be useful in acquiring alien weaknesses. Offer one hand arm the other.
That exo suit doesn't count in the comics they did have exo suits to combat the Xenos but considering they can still spit their acidic blood they still didn't stand a very good chance
I rate the marines 3 out 5 and yes they have advanced weapons but they never got to use them and we never saw them used In any of the movies. They were sent in to lose and acted unprofessional. We need a series on the colonial marines bug hunt.
They send a single damn squad in! I would have sent in a damn brigade! Proximity alarms and guards on the transports so an alien doesn't cut off your escape off the planet! In general, it was a Mickey rodent operation that had no chance of success! Considering Ripley gave them the capabilities of what just one could do, sending a dozen when there was the possibility of facing 50, was a military blunder even a boot camp recruit wouldn't have come up with. I am a 10 year veteran and I have, over the course of a few years, come up with 8 ways they could have wiped out the Xenomorphs with few casualties if they had used sufficient forces. What they did was amateur hour.
Best space marines of all time?? that's a good question. But, now that I thought of it, it's an easy answer because he is technically a space marine. Or he was one at least. THE DOOMSLAYER. He wins quite easily. He can't die, and he is extraordinarily powerful and fast. To the point where if he and Thanos fought, Thanos would be turned into a pile of blood and pulp within seconds. So not currently plural, but the DOOMSLAYER is the best space marine.
'All right, sweethearts, what are you waiting for? Breakfast in bed? It's another glorious day in the Corps. A day in the Marine Corps is like a day on the farm: Every meal's a banquet. Every paycheck's a fortune! Every formation's a parade! I love the Corps!' - Sergeant Apone
"Hudson! This little girl survived longer than that without weapons or training. Am I right (looks at Newt)?" Ripley
Newt salutes.
"WHY DON'T YOU PUT HER IN CHARGE!?!?" Freaked out Hudson
I love Hudson: Hey, maybe you haven’t been keeping up with current events, but we just got our asses kicked pal!
Love that quote
Hudson:"Hey, Vasquez. Have you ever been confused for a man?"
Vasquez "No. Have you?"
Drokk. R.I.P. Bill Paxton, R.I.P. Al Matthews. Semper Fi!
Oh, the Colonial Marines are badly led and poorly equipped, are they? *_stares_* *_in_* *_noncom_* Look into my eye.
It's important to remember that just barely half a squad (and most of those injured), in a fighting retreat, outnumbered hundreds-to-one, with a broken chain of command, three unarmed civilians in tow, and running low on ammunition, that single fire team of Colonial Marines still managed to wipe out nearly half of the entire xenomorph infestation by themselves. If the operation hadn't been meddled with by Burke from the beginning - I blame him for putting Gorman in charge, and Gorman's only real mistake was being a career-minded rookie officer who hadn't yet learned to listen to his sergeant - then the outcome would almost certainly have been the extermination of the entire xenomorph hive and the successful reclamation of the colony.
Regarding the USCM's gear, the Power Loader was designed to be a sci-fi forklift, not a weapon. The fact that Ripley was able to use it as a weapon is a testament to how skilled and creative she was. And the Colonial Marines _do_ have actual combat exoskeletons, which are faster and much tougher than normal infantry. If memory serves, they usually pack a motion tracker, flamethrower, rotary cannon, rocket launcher, and high-energy laser. Saying the USCM's exoskeletons suck because the Power Loader isn't terribly effective as a weapon is like saying the Navy is useless because transport ships are vulnerable.
As for the personal armor and weapons, they're fine. They do exactly what they were designed to do, and they do it well. Boron carbide is an incredibly hard and durable substance, and has good heat tolerance - the kinds of attributes you want in armor. Besides which, body armor is there to give a soldier a second chance, not turn him into a walking tank, so taking a couple rounds of incoming fire is all it needs to do - and the USCM's armor does that just fine. It served well in human-vs-human conflicts, which is (despite the movie's focus) the USCM's main fight. The only Marine whose armor was breached in the movie was Hicks, and that wasn't from the aliens' claws, teeth, or tail spike, but their dying "fuck you" of acidic blood splatter.
The M41A pulse rifle and M56 smartgun are proven systems, battle-tested against tenacious enemies that can shoot back. The only drawback to them I can see is that they're optimized for fighting humans, rather than Lovecraftian biomechanical horrors - and even then, they're still absolute murder against the xenomorphs. And that electric chatter they make when firing is awesome as hell, too.
I also think the same as you. This list is very poorly made. Btw I laughed so hard with your dying fuck acidic blood saying
sounds like another day in the Imperial guard to me
Even a cornered rat will fight the cat
Right on man. This is a solid post.
Firepower is only so good as it is implemented effectively. Once the marines understood their enemy a little better they managed to set up effective fields of fire. The Pulse Rifle and Smart Gun are damn good sci fi weapons.
The criticism here of the Smart Gun I thought was particularly daft and I think that criticism show cases what I suspect is a total lack of understanding of modern infantry tactics regarding the employment of Support Machine guns and Squad Automatic Weapons. The harness system we see with the Smart Gun brilliantly allows a larger machine gun (like the MG42/MG 3 the smart gun prop is based on) to be employed without a set up time or assistance of a second person and it has rapid and very precise target acquisition. The concept of “walking fire” dreamt of for the BAR in WW1 actually because effective and relevant. What this ignorant of fire arms application reviewer fails to see is that the Smart Gun is the application of a great deal of fire power into a very mobile platform when all is considered. Criticizing a gun designed for a SAW like capacity for not being as nimble as a sub machine gun is really damn dumb...and somewhat baffling as the Smart Guns prove their worth by basically being the gun that saved the asses of the marines when they were ambushed.
Its fairly obvious they never actually looked into the expanded universe for this, as most of their negative points are actually wrong when you look at that.
The Platoon in Aliens was actually undermanned, and if it wasn't for Burke's meddling, a larger force would have been sent, also they were not expecting combat on LV426, as the colony actually already had a full platoon of USCM troops there. (See Aliens River of Pain, the prequel novel to Aliens)
The point regarding armor is technically correct, it wasn't designed for combat against xenomorphs, as that species had never "officially" been encountered before, it was designed as traditional body armor.
The USCM does use armored & armed combat exosuits, and they are frankly devastating against xenomorphs, for example there is "Alice" the exosuit used in AvP 2.
As for using synthetics for combat, this was done, the entire marine force in the Aliens Earth Hive novel was made of synthetics, designed specifically to combat xenomorphs, also its worth noting that there are alot of combat synthetics around in the aliens universe.
As for weaponry, the M56 smartgun may be a bit unwieldy, but consider its a fire and forget weapon, that decimates xenomorphs when allowed to be used properly, the main issue that it has in Aliens, is that they just weren't allowed to use it properly, and had already gotten into a situation were its use was limited (its designed to be used with properly armed squad support). The M41A pulse rifle, well, it was a monster of a gun, firing armor piercing explosive tipped rounds, which when fighting enemies with armored exoskeletons, is a godsend. Also its worth noting, that when the USCM actually started dealing with xenomorphs more commonly, they updated their arsenal to match, such as the nano rifles used in the "Rage War" series (admittedly they were developed to also deal with Yaujta.
Mismanagement in the case of Aliens, defiantly, but also partially understandable by WY would want a representative along, it was after all, their colony. But as a whole, the USCM wasn't badly managed, it was more often than not quite effective, its just early cases of Xenomorph contact were they are often mislead or more accurately, misinformed of the real threat.
Training, well the example from the movie is dead on, they don't act like professional soldiers, they fail to follow basic tactics, planning, etc. But in the expanded universe they tend to be quite competent, with their biggest weakness been the training is based on traditional combat, but they do quickly learn from experience and change their training to deal with Xenomorphs and Yaujta. Their tactics also adapt rapidly, but early on and in situations were they misunderstand the threat, they can be sorely lacking.
As for the total force strength, yes its a bit on the low side, but its also understandable from an in-universe perspective, there is no real war to speak of, humanity has only encountered a handful of other Alien species, and none of them really aggressive at this point in the universe's timeline, that all changes later in the timeline, their force massively increases. You also have to take into account, numbers aren't everything, they are equipped to fight a technological enemy normally, using heavy weapons, artillery, orbital bombardment, even ship to ship combat. The marines aren't really equipped for "bug hunts", they are equipped for smashing entire hives from a distance. Imagine for a moment if the APC wasn't disabled then destroyed, they could have driven a few miles away, and its mounted weapons would have smashed anything that moved from km's away. As Hudson put it "you could fry half a city with this baby", and that's a gun on an APC, not an MBT.
No 1. Advantage: they know when to bug out and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Point taken.
@@GenerationFilms I think really messed up when counting their weapons. Please look at xenopedia when doing research that very, because it's mentioned that they do use syths as supplement platoons for combat operations.
That one flaw that they don't even have. Also in the movie, Gorman told the platoon not to bring ammo in the reactor for express reason you stated. Instead they were going with flamethrowers ( Ripley report pointed out this was effective weapons against the xenomorphs, and a platoon should have 8 units) with others acting as eyes and ears for flamethrower operators. So no splitting up your strength when you think that most your troops don't have ammo, you don't spread them out.
I can keep going. Please, correct some things in your later video.
Should have done the same in Avatar.
If you read the novelization or read the technical manual you would have to burn half this list. Also what you call a lack of a plan is them using standard tactics and its explained that recon team outside of Gorman were really salty.
Another thing. Since the clones got combine arms as advantage, the colonial Marines better have it as well.
"The only good bug, is a dead bug." -Wrong franchise
Yautja Prime I think you meant “help me obi wan kenobi, you’re my only hope.”
It works.
"BEHOLD, THE SINGULARITY ENGINE!!!"
"Hello there"
"May the force be with you and may the power protect you, so that you may live long and prosper."
So the powerloader isn't a weapon system. It was never designed to go into combat. Ripley used it as a last ditch effort to survive.
Exactly. I don't know why this idiot is hosting this video.
I think its just that they needed 10 flaws and they only had 1 canon movie, a couple games and a little bit of wonderful conjecture sources to go by. They had to find SOMETHING. Just my opinion.
@@barongorn There are a number of written sources both comics and novels. The Aliens table top RPG did a good job of fleshing out the universe.
@@MAOofDC Oh I know that. I suppose it might depend on what Gen Films considered....relevant perhaps?
The way they infiltrated was 100% correct. You don't split up a unit when you don't know the environment. You also don't talk or "bark" orders during a mission. Are you new to this whole tactical thing?
Don't forget they train for defending Colonies and their bases are generally cookie cutter in design.
Secondly they were hunting Aliens, usually alien/animals cant understand jack including English.
Oh and the guy that did all of that wasn't an actor, he was an actual Green Berta during Vietnam.
@@lancer737 I'm very familiar with the fact that he served. That has nothing to do with the critique of the film made here. In fact, that reinforces my original comment. You don't worry about sound because your enemy can understand English, making a sound gives away your position and ruins any chance of having the element of surprise. Which any tactician will tell you, is the most important thing in combat. That is not an opinion or up for debate. Glad you could learn something.
@@blaze556922 Which Agian means nothing when you are exterminating animals while having the detection capabilities they have. Motion trackers, infrared and Ultraviolet, not sure on ultraviolet. But the problem is, I think you are forgetting that they have lots more mobile surveillance equipment than we do in real life.
@@lancer737 They didn't use infrared either. Motion trackers also is a reason not to split up. You're actually making my points for me and don't know it. All of the tech they use, we have in real life. You really don't seem to have a clue as to what you're talking about my friend. No offense...
10 FLAWS in Ben's love life
😮 We could do a whole series.
@@GenerationFilms Please make more Earth in Star Wars fanfics?
1: there is none
Generation Films please
Do it
2 : Doesn't know how act around girl
For the armor, their is a chance the marines could get in a firefight with human infantry. Other human nations had spaces forces and they were built for that not Aliens.
Jedi Master exactly right. Those who don’t know the extended universe think when they call it another bug hunt in the hangar, think they’ve encountered Xeno’s before. They mean other alien like bugs ( read Aliens: Bug Hunt )
This is the first time the colonial marines had encountered the xeno’s so were super unprepared
Actually, I think the armor was made for what the actors could handle.
insulting the smartgun is heresy of the highest order.
What I don't understand about some space marine armor is the fact that the arms are completely exposed with not so much as sleeves.
a few things ide like to point out.
1. Gorman. He was an idiot, of course. but it kinda makes sense. the Marine were going to see why a colony stopped talking. They didnt believe the Alien nonsense. i think we can easily explain gorman there because his superiors wanted to give him experience in the field doing something they figured would be simple.
2. the equipment is good. not only is it flexible, we also see that troopers are allowed a bit of freedom. hence the Shotgun one of them brings out. they can personalize their arsenal, which i think would make them more effective
3. dont pick on mah bby the powerloader. she smexy
Also, of course the power loader isn't suited for fighting aliens, its FORK LIFT. Its for picking up heavy stuff, moving it and putting it down somewhere else. Complaining its not suited for combat, is like complaining that a semi-truck is bad at F1 racing
I think they did confirm Gorman was sent because behind the scenes WY did want an inexperienced CO that would keep with WY interests to go.
Also I made a list of CM Power Armor, they said they would reference them but didn't :(
@@weldonwin Or complaining that a General purpose machine gun is ill suited for interior fighting.
Besides that the smart gun is damn god weapon that can automatically tracked targets and move it's barrel ( later version the bullets change direction, so it's literally get them in line of sight and let loose) to hit him. At high rate of fire, while allowing the user to walk while firing. It Should be advantage, not a weakness.
@@joshuawilliams9020 The issue the Smart gun had in this instance, was that it was designed to track targets by their heat signature and the xenomorphs are thermal chameleons that blend into the ambient temperature of their environment.
Oh and the reason the Colonial Marines don't use more androids is because A) Androids like Bishop are incredibly expensive and are far too cost intensive to be considered expendable and B) Combat Synthetics are *SUPER ILLEGAL* , like outlawed by the revised Geneva Convention, to the point that using androids in combat roles is considered a warcrime.
@@weldonwin It can also used the motion trackers to aim. But yeah, xenomorphs basically being invisible to IR is insane thing to try and counter.
If you give the Starship Troopers their power armor, you should include Spartans with the UNSC
LETS ROCK
*fires smartgun*
Or: HASTA LA VISTA BABIES! Fires 2 miniguns unleashing 7.62 NATO tungsten core penetrator rounds!
@@pyeitme508 I am not impressed as the M56 already has the same rate of fire. Their own pulsed Gattling guns in the USMC is better.
She's awesome, love this movie.
Also, I gotta say that the smart gun is pretty good. Its weight is held by the harness--not the arms--and its aiming is computerized. Have you played Aliens Colonial Space Marines? It's a special weapon that the platoon uses for general purposes, just like an army platoon has machine gunners.
They do actually use some small unit tactics; they have grenades & LMGs and a fairly good rifle. And an ok APC. So they beat Verhoeven's Starship Troopers. I rated them a 3, vs 2 for the VSTs, and 4 for the clone troopers.
The USCMC has a plethora of weapons at its disposal. Not only do they have the heavily featured M56 and M41A, but they have firearms for _any_ combat scenario such as:
1. M41A Pulse Rifle MK2
2. M41A/2 Pulse Rifle
3. NSG 23 Assault Rifle
4. M4RA Battle Rifle
5. M39 SMG
6. M37A2 Pump Shotgun
7. MK221 Tactical Shotgun
8. M5 RPG
9. U4 Firebomb
10. M20 Claymore Mine
11. M4A3 Service Pistol
12. 88 Mod 4 Combat Pistol
13. UA 51-C Automated Sentry Gun (how did you miss this one???)
14. XM99A Phased Plasma Pulse Rifle (Mentioned by Hudson)
15. P9 SHARP Rifle (Hudson calls it the “Sharp Sticks”)
16. G2 Electroshock Grenade (Hudson calls it “Sonic-Electronic-Ball-Breaker)
17. M240 Incenerator Unit (Again-How did you miss this one?)
There are many more. I only listed a few that I know. (Read the Colonial Marines Technical Manual-it lists many awesome never-before seen marvels of USCMC technology)
The lack of back home oversite is due to a 4 week round trip message time between LV426 and Earth. There is no FTC communication. This is stated in a scene in the extended edition of Aliens at the LV426 colony.
In AvP games (AvP2 and that RTS for PS2) Colonial Marines do use exo-suits. And those are quite lethal.
RIpley told them EXACTLY what to expect.
The irony that the true space marines arent in this series, but they still use footage of there heroic actions.
You almost touched on the biggest weakness, but you ran on past like a freight train.
The biggest weakness was how powerful the M41A's were. The AP rounds were what cost them victory. If they had a less potent round (Vasquez was seen to take out a Xeno with what looked like a 1911 or similar) for the auto's, they would have done much more damage in the nest. There were 158 colonists. Since Newt wasn't bread, that means 157 Xenos. We know one died as it hatched, 156 Xenos. We can assume one died to burn the hole through the roof of the colony building near the start. That leaves 155. Queen: 154.
So there are 154 active xenos.With 100 standard rounds each, 8 Marines (not counting Smart Gunners) means 20 Xenos each. that's 5 bullets per Xeno.
If they had standard ballistic weaponry, they would have done fine. . . . . . . . .
She shot in the side of the head point blank.
Dude, the AP rounds were the reason they could kill them at range at all. When Vasquez shot that alien with her pistol, she had to get it point blank with multiple shots to penetrate its carapace.
EDIT
Also just remembered that Gorman shoots his pistol at the xeno that blocks their escape when he's dragging Vasquez, and the bullets literally bounce off its head.
Gorman was shooting an officers handgun. Looked like an El Alamein PPK, an 8mm. A strong look would stop one of those.
Vazquez pumped a few rounds into a Xeno before she pinned its head against the wall. Then she put another few rounds in. Problem is we don’t know the Xeno physiology: she might have shot it in something analogous to a humans sinus. Also, the Xenos are basically eusocial insects: they can likely take a lot of punishment without it showing.
@@junior1138 Gorman was using an H&K VP70 while Vasquez had a S&W Model 39. Both are 9mm pistols.
Jason Smith I bow to your knowledge.
Obviously you haven't seen Aliens or played any games. The abilities of the Smart Gun are much, *MUCH* better than you said. It has a harness that makes the gun light and very maneuverable. It has a lock on feature that works with a heat sensor or, even better, a motion sensor. A high capacity for ammo and that ammo tears armor apart.
So long story short, you don't know jack about this beauty.
The Noisy Cricket is a great idea! It blows up aliens, and flies the soldier away from the acid blast.
Game over man!
Game over!
If you read the books, later on the Marines outfitted with power armor, smart guns, and plasma weapons are able to solo groups of aliens and depending on skill are on par with yautja.
I was 10 Drake my parents thought I was sick
The movie Scared the bejeebies out of me I loved it lol
1. Automatic is not an option with current weapons because it's ineffective except for suppressing fire.
2. Officers don't eat with enlisted
3. (Good) Marines aren't openly insubordinate like Hudson was.
4. The Lieutenant should have pulled the platoon out to rearm and redeploy.
1. I agree that the M56 smart gun is a clumsy weapon to use in close quarters. Plus it inhibits their ability to dodge physical attacks or take cover.
2. It was stupid for Gorman to order the Marines to eject their pulse rifle magazines leaving them almost defenseless.
3. Was it necessary for the entire squad of marines to land on LV4. I mean they could've kept other personnel on standby aboard the Sulaco to mount an emergency evac.
The sergeant should have suggested a 2-man recon instead of letting his inexperienced officer send the whole unit down a dead-end.
They looked and acted like they ended up in the CSMs as an alternative to going to jail. That whole group was probably some commanding officer's headache and he assigned them to the first long range, low profile, backwater operation he could just to get rid of them.
Correction. in the lore not shown in the movie the smart gun is called just that because it tracks and its ammunition locks on to enemies and chases them until the target is hit or the round is blocked. Since xenomorphs are fast having a tracking weapon with tracking ammunition is great despite being bulky.
One thing you didn't touch on about the lack of androids is that the androids also cant be used as hosts by the xenomorphs.
i think there is a counter for vazquez lmg´s weight point you made, in the film they used converted steady cam structures to carry that heavy weapon, so it helps carry the weapon for vasquez, making it more light in her hands as the weight of the gun is distributed to her lower body, And in mobility and she doesnt have the carry the thing she can rotate it much faster, what Is a downside is the fact that aiming down sights is nearly impossible and the gun has too high a rate of fire given that the xenomorphs are really fast but not tanky, it´d be better suited power than rate of fire, as it would burn ammo much quicker
I love these Marines, and considering they thought they were investigating a downed transmitter and that's why only a single platoon was sent kinda destroys a lot of the arguments here. Also at the start of the movie when they get down to the moons surface all the bull crap they showed up in orbit is gone and they are 100% professional until it hits the wall and they are ambushed by nightmare monsters they were never trained to handle .. that NO ONE was trained for. The Colonial Marines main enemy were other humans as is stated in that manual you kept referencing which is perhaps why their armour isn't as great as other Marines in this series. Their tech, armour and weaponry was as cutting edge, or more so, than their usual enemy in the field.
They weren’t even a platoon they were basically a section
FLAWS of your LAWS video.
In AvP2 game there was an armored Exosuit available for Marine use. It had a flamethrower, twin rotary gun, a laser gun and rocket launcher. Single suit could slaughter hundreds of xenomorphs, before running dry and even then laser gun had rechargable ammunition.
In AvP2 and AvP (2010) games combat androids were utilized. And were much more effective than Colonial Marines. They are illegal though, for some reason.
Smartgun has autoaim function. Also, Colonial have other weapons that are much more effective against Xenos and other Marines alike.
Those games are noncanon.
@@frankg2790 So are Star Wars Legends, but nobody seems to care.
@@frankg2790 read aliens: colonial marine technical manual than. That APC Should have a plasma, laser, or particle cannon as a turret mount. I mean their weapons are well thought out.
And the directors cut had sentry guns, automatic machine guns tied to motion detectors and IFF systems. A couple of them survived the APC explosion and were set up in the tunnels which they wielded shut, and really thinned out the heard. The only problem is they didn't have that much ammo, only 1000 rounds each left after the wreck.
@@frankg2790 Nobody cares what some pissant paper pusher says is or isn't canon. Nobody who enjoys something like the Alien setting and stories cares what the current IP owner claims is or isn't canon.
I always assumed that Burke was acting on his own authority going to LV426, and a single platoon (with a green commander) was all the force he could get from the CMC. It wouldn't surprise me if the corps sent him a platoon that was one if it's "less exceptional" ones too.
The loader is a space forklift, not power armor. And the Marines were not the only ones using them.
I liked this segment because it brings up things I had never considered before. First and foremost is that, if the Colonial Marines are based on the U.S. Marine Corps, then its ships should be run by the Navy. At the very least, that would allow for rescue and battlefield management.
Seeing how Bishop was among the people in cryo-sleep chambers, who monitors the medical conditions of the crew while they are frozen? Who responds to internal malfunctions or emergencies (such as seen in the beginning of Alien 3)? Who responds to external ones like asteroids and solar flares?
For the record, this always bugged me (no pun intended) about the Nostromo, too. Can they really not afford for a few people to be awake, while the bulk of the crew sleeps? Why not have Bishop or another android around to monitor things?
That said, how on Earth such a large ship as the Suvako only has about 20 people on board amazes me.
Even worse, according to Ripley and Newt, there could have been 100 or more Xenomorphs running around, based on the size of the colony. That means that if all of the colonists had actually been alive but needed to be evacuated, they would have been shipped off in waves. Not even with both drop ships used could the Marines have evacuated even half that number. That goes to poor planning on the Marines.
Also, leadership. Gorman aside, Apone should have recommended that the Marines fall back to the APC when he found out they could not shoot inside the processing center. He doesn't and that leaves his troops poorly armed, with a backup shotgun, a couple of pistols and two flame units. Had they fallen back and recalculated, they likely could have armed everyone with flame units.
And you can't help but notice that the Marines were, in no way, equipped to rescue any of the colonists. They had no medical supplies or equipment to treat and/or evacuate injured people. How did they not have even a single corpsman or hospitalman in the group?
The small squad and the inexperienced Gorman was ordered through Burke by Weyland Yutani on purpose. They wanted the marines to be wiped out along with living samples of Xenomorphs (Burkes facehugger plan on Ripley and Newt).
Bishop would have escorted Burke out
This would have left no witnesses to the knowledge of the Xeno’s save for Bishop ( a company synthetic anyway ) and of course Burke ( who would have profited as would Weyland Yutani
Why does having a slow forklift exosuit count as a negative mark when the various combat exosuits are generally faster and more mobile?
Do the 1998 "Soldier" movie with Kurt Russel next. I want to know the lore better than explained in the movie.
SPACE FORCE + Marine = Victory
It's my understanding that in the outer colonies maintaining order was an issue so Weyland-Yutani basically created a PMC group that contracts to the government for peacekeeping missions
No. The colonial Marines we're US government ran... Well until the 27th century at least, than WY bought them.
Ok, I have to say something about the smart gun, it is good against xenos. It has been shown in multiple games to be able to effectively track them and make quick use of them. And they come with harnesses to make them easier to carry so weight isn’t as much of an issue.
The smart gun took out a good chunk of the hive during their initial encounter. both drake and vasquez killed a bunch, at least half. the remaining aliens were mostly cut apart by the sentry guns. only a handful left made it into the med station.
There's no way they missed how good the smart gun is. I bet they'll talk about it in the advantages video.
+Generation Films The powerloader is not a combat vehicle, so you're reaching when you count it as a flaw against the Colonial Marines. You're probably right about a forklift being more efficient at loading munitions and moving supplies.
Can you make a video on the best weapons in fiction. Another on the best armor, another covering the best exoskeletons, one for the best training... and so on and so forth.
Awesome Video!!!!
The p-5000 isn’t fair because it’s used to prepare ships for Incase there is a fight going to happen not to quickly load ships
For Warhammer, you have to do the Death Korps of Krieg
Or the Cadian Shock troops, or the Catachan Jungle Fighters
... Am I the only fan of the steel legions? They of combine arms by lawyering around with a loophole. For that I just find them a far interesting unit
Vostroya Firstborn
They have feats and are not overpowered like other known Regiments
Taninth would butcher the Colonial Marines and Clone Troopers!
They are most likely just doing the entirety of the Imperial Guard
@@joshuawilliams9020 you are not alone. Definitely my favorite Guard.
I think this video points out something that has disappointed me for decades and that is the lack of vision of James Cameron. This is the man who gave us "The Terminator," a movie about a future where humans battle cyborgs, robots and attack drones in the near future.
Yet, two years later (1986), helms a movie based in the far future (2179) but models the Colonial Marines on the US Marine Corps of the 20th century. Aside from those automatic machine guns that got cut out of the original theatrical release, we don't really see much innovation or creative vision from him. I will give him some credit for Bishop remote-piloting the second dropship, but we did see the drones in "The Terminator."
Martin Caidin broached the idea of cyborgs in "Cyborg," back in the early 70's. It became the basis for "The Six Million Dollar Man." Writers talked of robots, androids, AI and personal drones for decades. Cheesy television shows like "Battlestar Galactica" had robot dogs.
In other words, it does not appear that Cameron or the writers really thought about what a Marine force of the future might look like., which is a shame considering the innovations Cameron created for "The Terminator." Imagine the Marines sending in an RPV or drone first to check the main complex or even the processing center.
You could still have an exciting movie. You could have had a small group of colonists hiding in the processing center and the drones find them, but miss the xenomorphs due to them not having heat signatures. The Marines go charging in like the cavalry to the rescue and get ambushed.
Oh, well. Hindsight is always 20/20.
The Powerloader is not a flaw. The British Army fields JCB telescopic handlers, backhoe excavators and other vehicles. They are not combat vehicles, they are there for specific jobs.
Where can I read the full documentation of the Humanity First Code?
Coming soon...if there's enough demand.
I want to add poor communication no one said why no armor piercing ammo was to be used, as in could cause a nuclear explosion so use flamers and shotguns and pistols. The CO should have told them that and had an escape plan in place as well to go with it if communications might be down. Even saying to the NCO's if something happens I trust you to scout and get the people out if combat demands using the armor piercing ammunition do so moving out of the area as quickly as you can laying covering fire with non-armor piercing weapons.
The last point is something I wanna ask something about:
IRL the USMC functions more like an expeditionary force: Fast to deploy, make first contact and buy time for actual Army Units to do the "heavy lifting" (if needed).
Given the fact that the Space Marines seem to be a extention or evolution of that, wouldnt that imply that their numbers are that small because they follow the same doctrin and the Navy or Army actually field the manpower to fight all-out-wars?
Compare this to Halo where it is clearly stated that the UNSC Marines are the bulk of the fighting force in books (the kilo-five-trilogy) and the army is mostly "space-immobile" deployed on planets this would make sense.
Actually, yes The colonial Marines are exactly that, the rapid response force with the US army being the main Frontline.
Their main flaw is that they're intended as a Vietnam war analogy. That explains at least two of their other flaws.
Game over,man
I still think you guys should do space marines for warhammer 40k. Sure every soldier is super powerful, but they also have flaws like low numbers and every chapter being independent
9:41 Fission, not fusion reactor.
You can shutdown fusion reactor in seconds. (It will likely "flame out" if you look at it the wrong way ;-)
While it takes weeks to YEARS for an extremely-unimaginably-large-"regular" fission reactor to cut power to (near) zero.
Stay frosty!
hey a good end to all this could be putting the different factions against their competition's main enemy, like say put clone troopers up against xenomorphs.
If you acknowledge that the power loader it's not a weapon then why count it against the colonial Marines considering they would not rationally use it in battle
UNSC is getting a 5. Held off a force superior in numbers, technology, and positioning for 25 years. The UNSC army and marines even managed to win ground battles, and were only forced to withdraw when the Navy's losses in orbit put them at risk of orbital bombardment.
cant wait for the next one
Ok so we are only rating them from the Film's. in the books there UNCM are much more organized and efficient.Quickly utilizing advanced plasma weapons and Sinth' Solder's as well as the acid resistant armour as after the 2st two attempts to capture a zenomorph narly results in the bugs invading earth.
Will you guys do a video on the Sulaco? I'd love to know more about the ship's capabilities, firepower, propulsion, max speed and the like.
Flaws are easy to find with this bunch. Finding ten advantages ought to be a lot more of a challenge for you.
99 10mm APHE aren't good enough. But seriously look at equipment from the aliens: colonial Marine technical manual and say it's not good. The failure in the movie was
A) underestimating the aliens.
B) mission interference by a greedy corporation.
Taking a platoon that was sent on a cakewalk mission where they believe was most likely just a down transmitter, than saying that entire army must be horrible is not good.
I mean space have lost entire companies to genestealers ( which where inspire by xenomorphs) and no says that space Marines suck. The problem is most don't read the books and comics that expand the lore just say colonial marines suck.
I mean if I told a unit of colonial Marines went to the aliens home world and stole royal jelly. Name one other of these units that can sneak into the very center and steal some presents for back home.
That's a rather detailed reply for a simple (and meant to be innocuous) statement.
And people tell me *I'm* a total geek! (rolls eyes)
Anyway, no disrespect meant (well, not really anyway) but all I can do is go by what we see in the movie. Any other sources such as the Tech Manual, books and comics you mentioned I consider to be totally irrelevant. My comment referred to just this one unit in this one situation. Until another movie is made about the colonial marines, that's*all* I care about; the rest of the 'lore' is just made-up stuff written by completely different people to sell books to folks even geekier/nerdier than even *I* am.
You guys should make a debate series.
Concerning #5, the future of the USCM was made up of a human commander and whole platoons of android marines. These units aren't even aware of they're biological status made with fake memory engrams. This isn't canon but it was in a comic series called the earth war, a sequel from aliens.
Can't wait for when you guys do unsc marines or odst. Would say Spartans but I don't think odst and marine corp get enough credit at times.
Check out our latest vid.
I heard rumors that there maybe a comic crossover with Aliens & Star Trek. I haven't heard anything new, so its most likely cancelled. Lets just say it isn't cancelled, my best guess is that the Next Generation will be used. Who would you rather have protection from, Star Trek Security or Colonial Marines?
Regarding the weapons and armor "You want logistics, join the army. Marines make do."
The power loader shouldn't be a flaw because that was pure improvising by Ripley. Colonial Marines don't have power battle armor.
They do have power armor. I made a list of them in the last video.
@@lancer737 Oh ok. I wasn't aware of that.
@@rumsmuggler30 it makes me sad because they said they would use all my stuff as a reference in their last film and not a single thing I posted ended up in the movie...
That's a flaw on it's self.
@@rumsmuggler30 They do later in the history of the universe, along with high powered laser, plasma, and nanotechnology based weapons which allow individual marines to obliterate huge numbers of Xenomorphs and stand toe-to-toe with Predators and their advanced technology.
I wouldn't count the power lifter against them. Using it was completely ad hoc. It was never supposed to be a weapon. The exo suit "Alice" from the game AvP 2 is the better thing to analyze.
For once, I'd like a Colonial Marine vs. Xenomorph Game done right.....💔
WHY? Why was there no one left on board the U.S.S. SULACO during the mission? Much needed equipment and weapons were left behind with practically no access to retrieve them. Not to mention emergency evacuation or emergency communication with "homebase" (Earth).
In the Aliens universe there is no FLT communication. A system of Drones are used for common comms traffic and packet ships are in place that delivers important messages.
the mission was purposefully undermanned by intent. Burke wanted as few people along as witnesses as he could get away with. After all if the situation was a result of his instructions to send people out to Ripley's reported derelict he didn't want any more non W-Y witnesses than he could deal with by a little treachery.
A single platoon could deal with one xenomorph... such as the one Ripely encountered. ( Too bad she didn't know about the queens)
And the sulaco was an automated ships they could operate by remote if they had too...so they could conceivably call down orbital strikes, or another drop ship is they needed it...Unless their first dropship, APC and the colonies uplink tower were out of commision at the same time...what were the odds of that happening.
3:07 What is this "Humanity First Code" you speak of? I'm interested, can you make a full video on it?
American Ben telling it is!
one issue is their equipment is whatever they had when they shipped from base several years or decades...heck even centuries ago as no FTL travel seems to be available. I think was the last Alien film where it was commented to Ripley that these dropships are centuries old in design.
They do have FTL in aliens. It took the rescue force 4 months to arrive though, so not super fast ftl. I think it's like 1.4 lights year in one day.
Aliens resurrection took place I believe a 1000 years after aliens 3.
Hollywood always makes regular forces (read: the _bulk of combatant strength_ ) appear hopelessly stupid and incompetent, so that it lies on the hero(es) to drop in and save the day.
Why was my comment about you referring to her Lesbian super powers removed? You even responded to it...
It's game over man, game over
Personally I’d include the terrans from Starcraft and the Xcom in the series, but otherwise great job! Can’t wait to hear the pros side of the colonial marines, while admittedly they’re probably the weakest of these “space marine” (with the possible exception of the marines from avatar) I still like them for their grit and relative realistic approach.
Once read the expanded lore on them, they also above the UNSC Marines in the raw firepower department. But UNSC has more advanced electronics and command and control tools. Saying that both are based off the US Marine...
One platoon level it's probably who spots who first, on a larger scale comes down to who has the better
Officers.
I disagree about he smartgun. The advanced auto aim function is an absolute boon to hitting a fast moving target, also the gun is able to track a target that the marine themselves might not be able to see clearly. Only in the tightest of quarters would the size of the weapon be a problem.
you do make a few leaps in your reasoning, they only sent 1 lot of troops because they assumed it was a downed transmitter, they were sent 'in case' there was truth to ripleys story, nobody actually belived her, exce[t Burke who is no expert on the military, this also applies to their tactics, sticking together where two smart guns can obliterate any sizeable force, small teams DO NOT split up when searching a building, they clear rooms one by one
Oh how I loved aliens colonial marines!
Hey American Ben, good to see ya again.
What's good?
@@GenerationFilms love your vids, keep them coming)
DId you really knock them because of a power loader? How is that a knock against the Colonial Marines in anyway seeing as they would not be using it for combat.
A cool series would be about the best droid army
Guns don't kill people Xenomorphs do.
Please keep way. I am an alien negotiator who does not kill the alien. My mind set has been proven to be infectious but only after prolonged exposure. My mind has not been wiped because this mindset has proven to be useful in acquiring alien weaknesses.
Offer one hand arm the other.
"We're back on the mission of determining the best space marines of all time" *shows footage of 40k space marines
That exo suit doesn't count in the comics they did have exo suits to combat the Xenos but considering they can still spit their acidic blood they still didn't stand a very good chance
I have no other choice now but to endorse Generation tech with my seal of approval and backed by the Republican guard. Merry Christmas to you guys.
I rate the marines 3 out 5 and yes they have advanced weapons but they never got to use them and we never saw them used In any of the movies. They were sent in to lose and acted unprofessional. We need a series on the colonial marines bug hunt.
"Vasquez's sexuality? Well, I suppose she'd say something like 'That's none of your fucking business'."
What's next?? Terran Marines? Commander Shepard's squad?
What about the Space Marines in Doom? How do they compare with the other space forces?
They send a single damn squad in! I would have sent in a damn brigade! Proximity alarms and guards on the transports so an alien doesn't cut off your escape off the planet! In general, it was a Mickey rodent operation that had no chance of success! Considering Ripley gave them the capabilities of what just one could do, sending a dozen when there was the possibility of facing 50, was a military blunder even a boot camp recruit wouldn't have come up with. I am a 10 year veteran and I have, over the course of a few years, come up with 8 ways they could have wiped out the Xenomorphs with few casualties if they had used sufficient forces. What they did was amateur hour.
Semper-Fi, Guys.
Best space marines of all time?? that's a good question. But, now that I thought of it, it's an easy answer because he is technically a space marine. Or he was one at least. THE DOOMSLAYER. He wins quite easily. He can't die, and he is extraordinarily powerful and fast. To the point where if he and Thanos fought, Thanos would be turned into a pile of blood and pulp within seconds.
So not currently plural, but the DOOMSLAYER is the best space marine.