I just watched a bunch of videos on the VTC rattle and yours was the only one I saw that took apart the VTC and actually showed how it works. Now that I understand the VTC and what is happening, I am much less concerned. It is such a horrible sound...if only for a second or two. Thank you!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this video and explanation!!! I've been going crazy trying to determine the source of that rattle and have heard all of the speculation surrounding it. From: 1. It's the timing chain rattling against the guide, about to jump a tooth because it's stretched. 2. The oil level is low, or the type of oil is insufficient. (Although I do recognize that oil plays a part). 3. It's the chain tensioner failing. I have had Honda mechanics swear that it was the timing chain making this noise, but I was never convinced of it. Now I have what I was searching for, thanks again.
a few things: VTEC, the thing you feel and hear, has little to do with the VTC actuator you talk about. VTEC changes valve lift by switching the valve rockers to engage the high cam cam lobes increasing cam duration and lift. The VTC actuator changes cam timing tuning the cam optimally for different loads and rpms. The start-up rattle is caused by the spring you have shown getting weak. The pin then is not able to lock the pin anymore during startup before sufficient oil pressure is present to fill the chambers. The pin is only supposed to unlock when sufficient oil pressure is present. At cold temperatures this takes longer to achieve. If you crank the engine a few times before starting it, the rattle disappears or only occurs very mildly as by cranking you build sufficient oil pressure to let the VTC actuator work without the lobes moving in an uncontrolled manner.
@@mikesproject4704 VTC is variable valve timing. The chain driven cam gear internally rotates to phase the cam vs the “chain”. Even the latest K20C1 combines VTEC on the exhaust cam in this case and VTC on the cam shafts. VTEC combining VTC and cam profile switching was introduced with the K-series, so 2001. Honda is using it ever since, so even in 2023.
I've been working with a company who makes replacement springs for the actuator and in our communications they have told me that the timing chain tensioner going bad can be a factor that creates the rattle.
@@lapin46 bro! was going to say all that but you said everything. Only thing I was wondering about and you actually kind of answered my question was the part about cycling the ignition a few times before starting to build up pressure to better control the vtc slop. Was actually wondering if that works because I haven't tried myself yet. Was unsure if the cycling would be worse on the cam or better until fix.
Where did you get the spring? did you just remove the valve cover and the 4 bolts on the vtc to replace the spring and is there additional info. I'm planning on changing the spring on my crv 2012
@@mikesproject4704 hello I am in the process of changing spring on my 2018 civic lx. I notice that I have to vtc actuator on my k20c2. When I took both of them off the front actuator did not have oil in them when taking apart. The back one was filled with oil when taking apart. Is that normal?? Would like your answers as soon you can reply, thank you.
thanks for the video, i replaced the spring with new one with extra 3mm length, to my surprise the cold start rattling is completely gone. i did it when the cam still in the engine. i only opened 5 bolts on the side of cam actuator and replaced the spring which only cost me less than $1. fyi be extra careful the cam actuator cover is spring loaded, try not to drop the spring and washer into the chain cover and oil pan.
@@Edgar-ne2eb what mike meant I guess is that in the long run this VTC actuator itself will not be damaged so easy, because as mike showed in the video this actuator does not have a lot of wear. As to your concern of actual damage to the car, I think the chain or the tensioner will have some damage as a result of the VTC's inability to lock from engine cold start.
Same here, 2009 Accord, been driving myself crazy because I was afraid that I needed all of the timing components replaced. Now I'm going to try this spring fix and see what happens. Might have to change the tensioner as well, but even if I do, it would still be far less expensive than the alternative. By the way, how is your 08' Accord doing?
There's a video of a guy who simply changes the spring and fixed the problem. I'm going to try this next week and see if it fixes the issue. Thank you for posting this, I wasn't sure if there was more failure points but this gives me some confidence the 4 dollar spring may fix the issue. 🤞
Thank you man. So what I have gathered is that it is annoying, but it doesn't cause any significant damage to the engine. The problem is, however, that the check engine light comes on in newer cars, which necessitates the changing of this ~$150 part (got a quote for over $700 at the honda dealership)
when the timing chain starts to get loose the chattering could cause it to jump a tooth. it will accelerate the stretch in the timing chain. how long will that happen. i dont know but i have heard people drive like that for years.. there is a company in Canada selling a spring replacement
@@mikesproject4704 thank you for responding. I definitely wouldn't take that risk. I ordered a new vvt sprocket for $150. I'm just going to put it in and see if I can get another 60k miles out of it.
Great video. Love the breakdown of the internals. I just changed my VCT in my 2008 K24. The one thing that many videos don't reveal is sometimes the VCT can be stuck in between locked and unlocked like mine was. I inherited this vehicle from a family member and I believe the VCT has been rattling for the last 150K miles or more. I had to use some innovation to get the new VCT to line up correctly after torquing it down and locking it. It's as quiet as any new Honda on startup now. I do believe that over time, the resonance of the frequency from a failed VCT will cause premature chain stretching. Just my opinion though.
One temporary technique I did in cold weather was to bump the starter a few times before really attempting to start the engine. Doesn't seem to rattle on starting. I think by bumping the engine over builds enough oil pressure to reset the vtc and take up the chain tension. I have a new vtc actuator sitting on the workbench and am waiting for a valve cover gasket to come in so I can change it. Going to try the quick change technique by removing both sprockets as seen on some TH-cam videos.
Hi. Your explanations make a lot of good sense. But why Honda does not sell a spring or a rebuilt kit? There is barely nothing in that actuator to go really bad. But more than 85% of Honda owners are having this noise on cold starts. And here in Canada, that part alone is close to 300$!
WVE brand appears to be Honda OEM since the markings are identical and it is also made in Mexico. Did one today based on Chrisfix video and it wasn't too difficult.
religiously changing the oil every 3000 mi / 5000 km with top shelf full synth oil seems to help, guessing detergents keep the spring and other vtc internals clean :)
Thanks for nice disable and explain but vtc is for adjust cam angle and vtec is engage different cam lobby. For now they are 2 reason, dirt oil or vtc valve or weak spring.
Push the gas pedal down to the floor. This will shut off the fuel injectors and prevent your engine from starting. This will allow you to crank over your engine long enough to build up the oil pressure without your engine starting. Release your gas pedal after around 5-10 seconds or so (dependant on outside temp and engine condition) and your engine will start without the rattle or significantly less rattle because the oil pressure was given enough time has reached your VTC actuator.
My 2012 Honda Fit makes a grinding noise (like the starter motor remained engaged for a second or so). It occurs only in cold weather startups and goes away after warmup. Would this be caused by a defective VTC? Will it damage the engine? Thanks for your video.
i looked it up and yes your Fit has a timing chain and a VTC.. a few people have told me they replaced the spring and fixed it . cheap and easy option...
What is the part number on your VTC? PAA. I know that CRV PND one’s got replaced part number to RBC. And I did see people fixing it by flexing and stretch the spring once they put it back it’s fixed.
Thanks for the great video, I have a similar sounding rattle however not during cold start, but rather when the engine is under load ( 1.5k to 2k rpm, high gear, pushing the accelerator but not enuff to downshift) Would there be a possibility the vtc spring is the culprit here ?
Thanks for the design explanation. I have wondered if it was worth fixing in my Fit and from what im seeing you are right the wear is minimal.....little to no point in doing it
Mike, The Honda service document shows torquing the cam and actuator out of the vehicle on the work bench. Given that, I don't see how the key pin on the end of the cam is out of the picture re: torque. I have not been able to get anyone to explain why it needs to be unlocked when torqued (especially if it is torqued out of the vehicle.
if you torque it with the pin in you are putting torque on the pin and will/ could miss shape the edge of the hole, or bend the pine.. unlocked the internal star evenly puts torque on it's respected stop.
Thank you for such an interesting video... I have a 2014 Honda crv with this problem, I want to know what number of 5-point tork key I need to remove the screws, thanks
Thanks for posting. So I did mine last weekend, and after I got done I noticed that the old VTC was unlocked. Is this another indication of its failure, or could this have happened removing it?
The VTC controls the Intake Cam actuator angle.. whiles the Vtec Solenoid controls the engagement of the 3rd Cam lobes.. wanted to point that out its 2 different functions.
Thanks ,what are those pieces of metal on the board, does that comes from the part also ? I was hopping you could show us The spring youre talking about
i used Ow20 . it was my wife's car she did a lot of short trips 3miles to work. so i think it is more of how many times the spring is worked. it was very clean inside
@@EliaBertuzzi 5w20 is more viscous than 0w20 and would due damage in valve body due to lack of lubrication in cold temperature. Never have 5w20 in weather below freezing that would do serious damage. Also take apart the filter to see alumunium particles and check for steel too using magnet on filter membrane to confirm if it performed fine.
i am going to say no on damaging the chain. but over time you will wear the inside of the actuator. and will effect oil flow and metal floating in the oil.
No it does not. Mine has been rattling for almost 200K miles. What will happen is it will affect the chain tensioner if anything at all. Since the inner mechanism that is bolted to the end of the intake cam is designed to move independently of the chain and outer gear I am not one who subscribes to the idea that the chain becomes stretched or damaged because of the rattle. That happens for other reasons, usually lack of maintenance and mileage, and many of those miles with low oil level. The chain can and does stretch, and the tensioner could be a part of the rattle. I think people with stretched chains and tensioners going bad are the people who have replaced the actuators entirely and had the rattle return in short order. To explain - since the recess that holds the pin in place is connected to the outer gear in a roundabout way, if the base timing is off due to chain slack or stretch, the recess will not be clocked in such a way that the pin can locate itself as it should in it. So I believe this is why it's not locked on start-up as it's not necessarily locked in the recess on shutdown. The pin could be partially covering the recess, even just millimeters from being seated, but it's not so the inner mechanism is free to rattle.
@@faithwu4484 Thanks. I have been working with the company that makes replacement springs for the actuators. They will tell anyone out there that the tensioner needs replacement, and really, they do. The other huge part of it is, the locking pin needs to be worked over with some abrasives - by hand or by rotary tool. There can be high spots and crud on it that can stop it from moving freely into and out of the detent.
So this actuator advances timing regarding RMP? What if you have thicker oil? What if you have very thin oil? Will timing be advanced in differed RMP regarding the oil :D?! Does oil effect oil pressure in different temperatures? I changed 0w30 oils (had 5w30 before) for my civic 2008 1.8 and rattleling started. Good to know anyway its pretty harmless!
It has really nothing to do with the oil weight. No oil pressure is no oil pressure, whether its 0w-20 or 20w-50. I've run 0w-20, 5w-30, and now 5w-20 after replacing the spring inside the actuator and I still have the rattle.
So this engine changes cam timing as the engine speed changes ? I always thought that the ECM was controlling this VCT actuator with oil pressure and the VCT solenoid.
@@mikesproject4704 ok cool that’s good to know I always thought the ECM controlled how far adv or retard the cam was by controlling the oil flow with the VCT solenoid. So for you to have it go all the way in 1 direction that means you have to redline that engine . Sounds like a parity simple manual setup
@@albono780 the older model engines there is a solenoid, this series as soon as there is enough engine oil pressure it pushed the pin and the cam veries. . very simple design.
it cost me about $100 for the part and about 2.5 hours.. i had a hard time undoing the cam bolt... and guy posted he replaced the spring and it worked.
hi mate... i have the 2.4 k engine in my 05 odyssey and have a code P2646,,,,, i dont have a rattle at all but sometimes it wont rev above 3000rpm is that the same prob or the solinoid
no something different.. go to this link. www.carparts.com/blog/p2646-code-a-rocker-arm-actuator-system-performancestuck-off-bank-1/#:~:text=Diagnostic%20Trouble%20Code%20(DTC)%20P2646,improve%20your%20vehicle's%20fuel%20efficiency.
this is just my guess. the pin will wallow out the hole and the timing will Verri. at high and low Revs, this will cause loss of power may be 20% may be 3 year mark. this will cause cardon build up and over time clod start problems. 5 to 7 year mark . biggest concern would be the stress on the timing chain this would make it loose tension and have slack. causing binding may be 4 year mark. so checking tension on timing chain would be the thing if you want to live with it.
the edge was starting to show a little wear after 6 months. i assume if it wears too much the timing could get stuck in a weird position you might lose fuel economy or a little power
There are many different access bits required to open these gears. Spring-Start has new vtc actuator locking pin springs with the correct access bit included in each kit.
Hello great video. How do you differentiate the VTC issues versus timing change replacement. Getting lights on dashboard with rattling noise for honda crv 2015. Thanks
Your timing chain is stretched and you need to replace that and the chain tensioner. You will have a DTC for the VCT actuator - however the noise and problem you have is the chain.
the rattle is the actuator moving back and forth. you are putting strain and no strain on your timing chain. the rattle has come back on my Honda . i have bought a spring from a Canadian company and will try that soon will do a video. i think the VTC i bought on ebuy wasnt Honda part but a knock off made to look like one
was good for 3 winters. i bought VTC on ebuy and think might not be Genuine Honda. i still think you will shorten chain life how fast i dont know@@maverickperson5443
I was having same prb.. But couldn't notice in the beginning... Atlast the engine started jerking n the timing chain cover also got broken.. I found it when the mechanic opened the cover.. N it will cost u more as well.. So, better get the vtc replaced before it damages the whole system
Brilliant Mike. REALLY good stuff. This tear-down and deep-dive is very necessary to understanding how the VTC actuator system works and why it fails.
thanks for watching.
I just watched a bunch of videos on the VTC rattle and yours was the only one I saw that took apart the VTC and actually showed how it works. Now that I understand the VTC and what is happening, I am much less concerned. It is such a horrible sound...if only for a second or two. Thank you!!
I agree 👍 💯
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this video and explanation!!! I've been going crazy trying to determine the source of that rattle and have heard all of the speculation surrounding it. From:
1. It's the timing chain rattling against the guide, about to jump a tooth because it's stretched.
2. The oil level is low, or the type of oil is insufficient. (Although I do recognize that oil plays a part).
3. It's the chain tensioner failing.
I have had Honda mechanics swear that it was the timing chain making this noise, but I was never convinced of it.
Now I have what I was searching for, thanks again.
happy it helped
a few things: VTEC, the thing you feel and hear, has little to do with the VTC actuator you talk about. VTEC changes valve lift by switching the valve rockers to engage the high cam cam lobes increasing cam duration and lift. The VTC actuator changes cam timing tuning the cam optimally for different loads and rpms. The start-up rattle is caused by the spring you have shown getting weak. The pin then is not able to lock the pin anymore during startup before sufficient oil pressure is present to fill the chambers. The pin is only supposed to unlock when sufficient oil pressure is present. At cold temperatures this takes longer to achieve. If you crank the engine a few times before starting it, the rattle disappears or only occurs very mildly as by cranking you build sufficient oil pressure to let the VTC actuator work without the lobes moving in an uncontrolled manner.
correct for older VTEC. the 2012 year allows the cam shaft to shift time on the chain
@@mikesproject4704 VTC is variable valve timing. The chain driven cam gear internally rotates to phase the cam vs the “chain”. Even the latest K20C1 combines VTEC on the exhaust cam in this case and VTC on the cam shafts. VTEC combining VTC and cam profile switching was introduced with the K-series, so 2001. Honda is using it ever since, so even in 2023.
I've been working with a company who makes replacement springs for the actuator and in our communications they have told me that the timing chain tensioner going bad can be a factor that creates the rattle.
@@caseyalexander2244 is there a web site ,
@@lapin46 bro! was going to say all that but you said everything. Only thing I was wondering about and you actually kind of answered my question was the part about cycling the ignition a few times before starting to build up pressure to better control the vtc slop. Was actually wondering if that works because I haven't tried myself yet. Was unsure if the cycling would be worse on the cam or better until fix.
Bravo! Well done! Short and full of answers to questions we all had. Thank you.
thanks for watching
Just replaced the spring on my 2014 Crv. Your explanation is awesome, I knew it's the weak spring but didnt know what it is doing.
thanks for watching
Where did you get the spring? did you just remove the valve cover and the 4 bolts on the vtc to replace the spring and is there additional info. I'm planning on changing the spring on my crv 2012
@@mikesproject4704 hello I am in the process of changing spring on my 2018 civic lx. I notice that I have to vtc actuator on my k20c2. When I took both of them off the front actuator did not have oil in them when taking apart. The back one was filled with oil when taking apart. Is that normal?? Would like your answers as soon you can reply, thank you.
@@josuemorales5061 mine had a small amount of oil. wasn't full
@@mikesproject4704 mine was full. Does it mean it’s clogged I should get another or I can clean it up? I stretched the spring as well.
This is one of the best videos I have ever watched.
AWESOME VIDEO!!
This knowledge will save me hundreds of dollars.
Thank you!!💪
thanks for the video, i replaced the spring with new one with extra 3mm length, to my surprise the cold start rattling is completely gone. i did it when the cam still in the engine. i only opened 5 bolts on the side of cam actuator and replaced the spring which only cost me less than $1. fyi be extra careful the cam actuator cover is spring loaded, try not to drop the spring and washer into the chain cover and oil pan.
nice. thank you for the update. i figured that was the problem the spring gets weak..
Where did you get the spring from? Can you provide link?
Please provide info on where to buy the spring.
Thanks ! The spring , can you tell us more about the spring please, as asked before
Thanks again!
Hi again , and how much pounds of torque on the bolts to put it back,
Thanks!
I am so happy you showed me the internals of that cam gear, my Accord has rattled on start up since 2008. Every morning.
glade you enjoyed it
@@mikesproject4704 Where did you heard that this will not cause any damage and just the noise is not nice?
@@Edgar-ne2eb Honda stated that. but long term i feel will do damage
@@Edgar-ne2eb what mike meant I guess is that in the long run this VTC actuator itself will not be damaged so easy, because as mike showed in the video this actuator does not have a lot of wear. As to your concern of actual damage to the car, I think the chain or the tensioner will have some damage as a result of the VTC's inability to lock from engine cold start.
Same here, 2009 Accord, been driving myself crazy because I was afraid that I needed all of the timing components replaced. Now I'm going to try this spring fix and see what happens. Might have to change the tensioner as well, but even if I do, it would still be far less expensive than the alternative.
By the way, how is your 08' Accord doing?
There's a video of a guy who simply changes the spring and fixed the problem. I'm going to try this next week and see if it fixes the issue. Thank you for posting this, I wasn't sure if there was more failure points but this gives me some confidence the 4 dollar spring may fix the issue. 🤞
sound good. let me know if it works
Yes me too plz bro 💪
I'll let u guys know
Did it work?
@@valentinodean4955 guess it didn’t work
Thanks for explaining why it fails and why I hear that noise in the morning start ups. 👍
happy it helps
Honda still uses VTEC in conjunction with VTC. It's the best of both worlds. 3 lobe camshaft means VTEC. Cool video.
Thank you man.
So what I have gathered is that it is annoying, but it doesn't cause any significant damage to the engine. The problem is, however, that the check engine light comes on in newer cars, which necessitates the changing of this ~$150 part (got a quote for over $700 at the honda dealership)
when the timing chain starts to get loose the chattering could cause it to jump a tooth. it will accelerate the stretch in the timing chain. how long will that happen. i dont know but i have heard people drive like that for years.. there is a company in Canada selling a spring replacement
@@mikesproject4704 thank you for responding. I definitely wouldn't take that risk. I ordered a new vvt sprocket for $150. I'm just going to put it in and see if I can get another 60k miles out of it.
Great video. Love the breakdown of the internals. I just changed my VCT in my 2008 K24. The one thing that many videos don't reveal is sometimes the VCT can be stuck in between locked and unlocked like mine was. I inherited this vehicle from a family member and I believe the VCT has been rattling for the last 150K miles or more. I had to use some innovation to get the new VCT to line up correctly after torquing it down and locking it. It's as quiet as any new Honda on startup now. I do believe that over time, the resonance of the frequency from a failed VCT will cause premature chain stretching. Just my opinion though.
i agree on the chain stretch
One temporary technique I did in cold weather was to bump the starter a few times before really attempting to start the engine. Doesn't seem to rattle on starting. I think by bumping the engine over builds enough oil pressure to reset the vtc and take up the chain tension. I have a new vtc actuator sitting on the workbench and am waiting for a valve cover gasket to come in so I can change it. Going to try the quick change technique by removing both sprockets as seen on some TH-cam videos.
my main bolt was tight i would try to loosen it while it is still in the engine
Hi. How did the new VTC change go? Thanks
very good and informative video , thank you very much. Now the question is Why Honda is allowing this to happen in almost every model
lasts long enough to be out of warranty
Hi. Your explanations make a lot of good sense. But why Honda does not sell a spring or a rebuilt kit? There is barely nothing in that actuator to go really bad. But more than 85% of Honda owners are having this noise on cold starts. And here in Canada, that part alone is close to 300$!
i think you just answered your own question. a spring would cost 1$ and the actuator is $300
@@mikesproject4704 Yes indeed it did! lolll ... But leaving it with the grinding noise, is not bad for the engine is it? Thanks
@@Daniel-xq7ny i wouldn't go more than two years
WVE brand appears to be Honda OEM since the markings are identical and it is also made in Mexico. Did one today based on Chrisfix video and it wasn't too difficult.
@@mikesproject4704 I have now many that stated they have replaced the VTC actuator and the rattling came back within the year!
Hi. I have opened the front plate and stretched the spring. Since then, not more noise on cold starts.
nice . thank you for the update
My thoughts exactly. Start simple using existing parts. If it's not busted, don't replace it!
Hi mate. Do you have the part number by the way? I wanted to see if its the same old part sold again, or a new part re designed number. Thanks
2008-12 Accord L4: P/N 14310-R44-A01
religiously changing the oil every 3000 mi / 5000 km with top shelf full synth oil seems to help, guessing detergents keep the spring and other vtc internals clean :)
i think that is it
Fantabulous sir
Thanks for nice disable and explain but vtc is for adjust cam angle and vtec is engage different cam lobby. For now they are 2 reason, dirt oil or vtc valve or weak spring.
Im thinking weak spring.... let me know
Great explanation! Thanks!
Push the gas pedal down to the floor. This will shut off the fuel injectors and prevent your engine from starting. This will allow you to crank over your engine long enough to build up the oil pressure without your engine starting. Release your gas pedal after around 5-10 seconds or so (dependant on outside temp and engine condition) and your engine will start without the rattle or significantly less rattle because the oil pressure was given enough time has reached your VTC actuator.
So the cold start rattle from the VTC actuator does not cause any long term damage to the engine, it just annoying! Thank you for a great video!
will stretch timing chain over time
@@mikesproject4704 oh no… not so harmless after all😵💫
My 2012 Honda Fit makes a grinding noise (like the starter motor remained engaged for a second or so). It occurs only in cold weather startups and goes away after warmup. Would this be caused by a defective VTC? Will it damage the engine? Thanks for your video.
i looked it up and yes your Fit has a timing chain and a VTC.. a few people have told me they replaced the spring and fixed it . cheap and easy option...
@@mikesproject4704 Do you know where I can find a spring replacement in my 13 Honda Accord EXL 2.4?
@@amber_504 did you replace the spring? Did it fix the problem? If so, where did u get the sping?
What is the part number on your VTC? PAA. I know that CRV PND one’s got replaced part number to RBC. And I did see people fixing it by flexing and stretch the spring once they put it back it’s fixed.
14310 r44 A01 is the part number . stretching the string will only be a short fix replace would be better
Thanks for the great video, I have a similar sounding rattle however not during cold start, but rather when the engine is under load ( 1.5k to 2k rpm, high gear, pushing the accelerator but not enuff to downshift)
Would there be a possibility the vtc spring is the culprit here ?
that seems to be the idea.. one guy on here replaced the spring and fixed the issue
It shouldn’t rattle at that speed & under load. I would suspect engine ‘pinging’ (detonation) is the culprit. Change to high octane fuel to confirm
Were you able to get it fixed? If so, what was the issue? Thanks!
Thanks for the video.
thanks for watching
THANK YOU JESUS !
Thanks for the design explanation. I have wondered if it was worth fixing in my Fit and from what im seeing you are right the wear is minimal.....little to no point in doing it
glade it helped
Stretches your timing chain over time you wil blow your engine
The R40 RZA spring kit eliminates the rattle in the Honda Fit.
Mike, The Honda service document shows torquing the cam and actuator out of the vehicle on the work bench. Given that, I don't see how the key pin on the end of the cam is out of the picture re: torque. I have not been able to get anyone to explain why it needs to be unlocked when torqued (especially if it is torqued out of the vehicle.
if you torque it with the pin in you are putting torque on the pin and will/ could miss shape the edge of the hole, or bend the pine.. unlocked the internal star evenly puts torque on it's respected stop.
@@mikesproject4704 Yes and new ones come unlocked out of the box
Thank you for such an interesting video... I have a 2014 Honda crv with this problem, I want to know what number of 5-point tork key I need to remove the screws, thanks
TS30h 5 star bit
spring-start VTC has a spring and seal VTC gear rebuild kit with the access bit for the 2012- 2014 crv and 2008-2012 Accords.
Thanks for posting.
So I did mine last weekend, and after I got done I noticed that the old VTC was unlocked. Is this another indication of its failure, or could this have happened removing it?
unless the spring is very weak it wont unlock by itself. so yes it failed
@@spring-start that is not the question I was asking, and this was 2 years ago...🙄
The VTC controls the Intake Cam actuator angle.. whiles the Vtec Solenoid controls the engagement of the 3rd Cam lobes.. wanted to point that out its 2 different functions.
Wow that was great thank you.
Thank you for the video. Great information.
Could the rattle be from the VTC Valve being clogged???
Thank you.
Sometimes the solenoid is the issue, but majority of the issue is weak pin spring tension.
If that were the case you'd be getting a CEL for the VTC. Same as you'd get with a stretched timing chain.
Thanks ,what are those pieces of metal on the board, does that comes from the part also ?
I was hopping you could show us The spring youre talking about
the spring is at 1:16 on the video
@@mikesproject4704 thanks, !
Since the spring is the issue it would have been great to show it a little more
Hi Mike, its been almost 3 years since your replaced your VTC, did the rattle came back? Thanks
touching wood. still good.. . no rattle.
@@mikesproject4704 lucky. many that replaced it came back
@@Daniel-xq7ny thinking they could have a dirty oil issue , i change my oil 3,000 miles even though they say you can go 7,000 to 15,000
Hi, did you use 0w20 or more viscous motor oil? I'm thinking about oil pressure difference between two
i used Ow20 . it was my wife's car she did a lot of short trips 3miles to work. so i think it is more of how many times the spring is worked. it was very clean inside
Hi, mine HR-V does it too....I've run over 70.000 Km with 0W20 oil, but now I want to try 5W30 oil.....I hope can I resolve this f**king problem 😅👌🏻
@@EliaBertuzzi Did you change the oil to the 5W30? problem solved?
@@josemiguelnavarro6205 just a little....but not completely 🤷🏻♂️
@@EliaBertuzzi 5w20 is more viscous than 0w20 and would due damage in valve body due to lack of lubrication in cold temperature. Never have 5w20 in weather below freezing that would do serious damage. Also take apart the filter to see alumunium particles and check for steel too using magnet on filter membrane to confirm if it performed fine.
And the dealers do not sell you the spring but the entire gear at exuberant price!
Hi, what diameter is the inside diameter of the pin? I am wondering what size maximum diameter spring I can use, thanks
max size of spring 5.5 mm or 7/32
@@mikesproject4704 thank you
It (the rattling on cold start when the lock pin is not locked as it should be) DOES do damage. It will destroy a timing chain in very little time.
i am going to say no on damaging the chain. but over time you will wear the inside of the actuator. and will effect oil flow and metal floating in the oil.
No it does not. Mine has been rattling for almost 200K miles. What will happen is it will affect the chain tensioner if anything at all. Since the inner mechanism that is bolted to the end of the intake cam is designed to move independently of the chain and outer gear I am not one who subscribes to the idea that the chain becomes stretched or damaged because of the rattle. That happens for other reasons, usually lack of maintenance and mileage, and many of those miles with low oil level. The chain can and does stretch, and the tensioner could be a part of the rattle. I think people with stretched chains and tensioners going bad are the people who have replaced the actuators entirely and had the rattle return in short order. To explain - since the recess that holds the pin in place is connected to the outer gear in a roundabout way, if the base timing is off due to chain slack or stretch, the recess will not be clocked in such a way that the pin can locate itself as it should in it. So I believe this is why it's not locked on start-up as it's not necessarily locked in the recess on shutdown. The pin could be partially covering the recess, even just millimeters from being seated, but it's not so the inner mechanism is free to rattle.
@@caseyalexander2244 best explaination
@@faithwu4484 Thanks. I have been working with the company that makes replacement springs for the actuators. They will tell anyone out there that the tensioner needs replacement, and really, they do. The other huge part of it is, the locking pin needs to be worked over with some abrasives - by hand or by rotary tool. There can be high spots and crud on it that can stop it from moving freely into and out of the detent.
Did you torque the bolts when you put it back together?
no i replaced with a new one.. but the my guess they were torqued to around 35lb
Hey I just did drag cartel 3.2 cams and the rbc cam gears but I didn’t have the pins to lock it at 35* will it be fine to run it at 45*
remember it is an interference engine
Very useful, thanks!
So this actuator advances timing regarding RMP? What if you have thicker oil? What if you have very thin oil? Will timing be advanced in differed RMP regarding the oil :D?! Does oil effect oil pressure in different temperatures? I changed 0w30 oils (had 5w30 before) for my civic 2008 1.8 and rattleling started. Good to know anyway its pretty harmless!
It has really nothing to do with the oil weight. No oil pressure is no oil pressure, whether its 0w-20 or 20w-50. I've run 0w-20, 5w-30, and now 5w-20 after replacing the spring inside the actuator and I still have the rattle.
So this engine changes cam timing as the engine speed changes ? I always thought that the ECM was controlling this VCT actuator with oil pressure and the VCT solenoid.
yes just engine revs. which changes oil pressure
@@mikesproject4704 ok cool that’s good to know I always thought the ECM controlled how far adv or retard the cam was by controlling the oil flow with the VCT solenoid. So for you to have it go all the way in 1 direction that means you have to redline that engine . Sounds like a parity simple manual setup
@@albono780 the older model engines there is a solenoid, this series as soon as there is enough engine oil pressure it pushed the pin and the cam veries. . very simple design.
HOW MUCH WILL
V-TEC FIXING JOB
WILL COST AND
HOW LONG WILL
IT TAKE TO FIX?
it cost me about $100 for the part and about 2.5 hours.. i had a hard time undoing the cam bolt... and guy posted he replaced the spring and it worked.
Hi. Did you have a grinding sound, or more like a clattering sound? And since the new VTC actuator, any more noises? Thanks
i had very fast chatter for about 2 seconds. no more issue, runs great.. thanks for watching.
@@mikesproject4704 Would it do it almost every time on cold starts? Cold weather or both cold and warm? Thanks again
@@Daniel-xq7nyFrom the first time doing off and on to doing all the time was very short les that 3 weeks may be a little longer
@@mikesproject4704 thanks.
Hi, would just replacing spring fix the problem?
that might do it but i also think it is a combination of the wipers not holding the old
@@eternalspring1034 stretching would work for a week.. really need a new spring .. i dont know the size
Does anyone know what lbs./kg. spring it is ?
hi mate... i have the 2.4 k engine in my 05 odyssey and have a code P2646,,,,, i dont have a rattle at all but sometimes it wont rev above 3000rpm is that the same prob or the solinoid
no something different.. go to this link. www.carparts.com/blog/p2646-code-a-rocker-arm-actuator-system-performancestuck-off-bank-1/#:~:text=Diagnostic%20Trouble%20Code%20(DTC)%20P2646,improve%20your%20vehicle's%20fuel%20efficiency.
what happens if i dont change this and live with the noise, would that damage the engine?
this is just my guess. the pin will wallow out the hole and the timing will Verri. at high and low Revs, this will cause loss of power may be 20% may be 3 year mark. this will cause cardon build up and over time clod start problems. 5 to 7 year mark . biggest concern would be the stress on the timing chain this would make it loose tension and have slack. causing binding may be 4 year mark. so checking tension on timing chain would be the thing if you want to live with it.
Hi, what happen if keep using this defective vtc for long time?
the edge was starting to show a little wear after 6 months. i assume if it wears too much the timing could get stuck in a weird position you might lose fuel economy or a little power
If I place the vtc locked, Will It still make the rattle noise ?
i wouldn't do that. would stop start up noise but create other issues , oil flow, and advance when accelerating
Please what size are those 5 point torx?
TS 30
There are many different access bits required to open these gears. Spring-Start has new vtc actuator locking pin springs with the correct access bit included in each kit.
Hi. What's the size of the 5 screws on the front vtc plate?
TS30h 5 star bit
I’m having the same issue finding the right Torx bit. Is this for a 2013 Honda. T 27 doesn’t work
I didn't do my CR)V yet, so I cant be sure of the size, but its a 5 point style Torx, (not a 6 point). See link below, (amazon)
@@Daniel-xq7ny you have a link. Not luck finding it
@@stevevee8033 napa has them
Hello great video. How do you differentiate the VTC issues versus timing change replacement. Getting lights on dashboard with rattling noise for honda crv 2015.
Thanks
if you have lights you have something else going on.
Your timing chain is stretched and you need to replace that and the chain tensioner. You will have a DTC for the VCT actuator - however the noise and problem you have is the chain.
We have a used 2012 Accord SE, exhibits a quick rattle(
the rattle is the actuator moving back and forth. you are putting strain and no strain on your timing chain. the rattle has come back on my Honda . i have bought a spring from a Canadian company and will try that soon will do a video. i think the VTC i bought on ebuy wasnt Honda part but a knock off made to look like one
@@mikesproject4704 if rattle has come back then the gear is not fixing the problem? Part of me tells me to leave it alone and see what happens.
was good for 3 winters. i bought VTC on ebuy and think might not be Genuine Honda. i still think you will shorten chain life how fast i dont know@@maverickperson5443
@@mikesproject4704How did the new spring work? Did it fix the rattling?
What is the size of the bit for the bolts on the actuator
TS30h 5 star bit
@@mikesproject4704 is this different then the Torx socket? my 2015 accord doesn't vtc actuator bolt doesn't grip when I put the t27 socket in
@@boostindc2 normal torx has 6 splines. this bit has 5. TS30h
How can I got the tools
NAPA has them
Means that if i dont have money for fix it, it wont damage any part?
I ran it for 9 months and there was little wear, so 2 or 3 years would be my guess before you run into problems from it.
I was having same prb.. But couldn't notice in the beginning... Atlast the engine started jerking n the timing chain cover also got broken.. I found it when the mechanic opened the cover.. N it will cost u more as well.. So, better get the vtc replaced before it damages the whole system
@@anonymous-z974 man that sucks. sorry to hear about it.
Savage Fa5 TH-cam video
Whoever is reading this comment of my friends, there should never be any sorrow in their life, this is my prayer to God.
ok..it..spins..counterclockwise..looking..from..sprocket..side..the..intake..on..the..right
My..theory..is..different.
When..u..tighten..the..sprocket..u..should..hold..the..shaft..with..spanner..so..no...loads..exerted..on..that..pin
Another..one..is..the..fact..that//when..pin..engaged..it..is..advancing..camshaft
I..think..the..pin...and..spring..are..there..to..hold..everything..together..untill..pressure..is..sufficient..to..avoid..this..knocking...when..cold..starting
After..that
rip space bar
@@fettaheker rip...you.brain
@@mcqcjc8409 why..you..mad
@@fettaheker
i..am..not..mad
u..r..stupid
did..u...get..that
Just replace the spring with a new one. Easiest thing in the world..
Spring steel
0.5mm wire diameter
9mm spring width
25mm length
Problem solved.
great.. thank you for the sizes
For waht car tho? coz on 2014crv it is 30mm by default..
@@miticav3709 accord 2.4l
@MrMattFinch Did you try any other sizes/rates, and what was the rate of the spring you used?