Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the VIP package with every current and FUTURE course included: hpcdmy.co/vipy4 50% OFF your first engine building course. Enrol now: hpcdmy.co/offery4 TIME STAMPS: 0:00 - Bucking The Trend 0:18 - RB26 Factory Cast Block Cracking 1:40 - Modified Engine Issue Only? 2:24 - RB26 Horsepower Reliability 3:01 - Horsepower Doesn't Kill Blocks 4:04 - What Is 'Wrong' Billet? 5:22 - Billet On A Street Car 6:12 - Billet Thermal Expansion 6:56 - Aftermarket Cast Block 8:15 - Serviceability 8:47 - Sleeves 9:03 - Deck & Headstud Upgrades 10:37 - Proof Of Concept And Development 12:02 - Finite Element Analysis (FEA)/Simulation 13:15 - Pricing Options 14:38 - Billet Is For A Different Use Case 15:06 - Thanks Herman! 15:55 - Exciting Times! 16:05 - BUILD | TUNE | DRIVE
I love the way Andre knows just how to elaborate and ask the right questions during the interviews. He's one of the best interviewers I've ever witnessed.
He knows the answers to the questions he asks. That's incredibly powerful. He can basically coach his interviewee into speaking their information eloquently, and helps them form responses by exactly picking his questions. He's definitely one of the best I've ever seen.
Cheers for the praise! Andre will be chuffed 😎 Andre has a broad base of knowledge, but he absolutely does have a chat with guests like Herman before an interview to get a lay of the land. No man is a lonely island when it comes to the knowledge side of things. From there it's just a matter of putting things out there at a level almost any car enthusiast will understand, and hopefully enjoy too 🤘 - Taz.
I really appreciate the fact that companies are starting to bring back the legends. Albeit at a price tag that is expensive to a lot of people. But gtr owners most of the time have gtr budgets which help. Just like the dart 2j block that's coming out, by the time it lands in Australia your almost on par with a bullet billet block for price. The thing I like about billet is if you happen to window the block you can have it repaired
You seemed to miss a lot of point about the cast block vs billet block which is a large reason why prp are coming out with a high hp capable cast block…
Actually if it wasn't for the 20 year limit on importing JDM cars combined with Gen X increase in income as they reach peak earnings, that is the reason new anything is being brought forward with 20+ year old vehicles with limited appeal. Just be happy but don't go all warm and fuzzy because that isn't why, it's economics and the general public needs a block will hold the power. But I'll wait for more R33-R34's in the insurance wrecks lot because the general public has never driven a car with 500 hp let alone 1000 hp.
I'm an R32 gtr owner. I have less budget than the average micra owner 😅 personally, I think that bringing an 8k block to market, is a massive achievement, and I am already saving for one . ❤
Cracked or windowed cast iron and alloy blocks can be repaired if no galleries have been damaged, the reason it is not done often is that with most cast blocks it is cheaper to just get another one. Look up metal stitching of blocks for cast iron, I have seen that done a number of times on diesel engines where another block was unobtainable or crazy expensive. It is great though that a lot of classic vehicles can be kept running through aftermarket companies, I learned a heap through listening to this video.
haha yes he is pretty enthusiastic about this which shines through eh! Did you check out his podcast episode? - Taz. www.hpacademy.com/blog/086-forget-billet-for-a-second-whats-with-aftermarket-cast-blocks-podcast/?
Great episode. As I’m a toolmaker who’s been in the casting industry for many years it amazing what’s actually involved in making a casting accurate and consistent is very time consuming. But you learn every day on what works and what doesn’t. Venting,risers to feed during cooling and volume of liquid are the criticals.
I am the guy who inspects castings. You are spot on. When we get early run castings to inspect, we have a lot of rejectable areas due to shrinkage, missed areas, gas pockets, and cracking. We report all of our findings and send them the film to review, and they tweak their molds and pour and usually have all of the areas corrected after 2 or 3 revisions.
Is it "easier" to cast limited production bits like this because adding thicker sections to be milled off and additional risers isn't a big deal as the cost structure of an aftermarket performance part is fine with adding those operations and some additional material usage?
The long head stud method has been done on cosworth yb's for ages. Really impressed with Herman's attention to detail on blocks with inherent flaws and improving them where it counts. I am an advocate of cast iron blocks, yes they may be heavier, but honestly who can afford to keep repairing or replacing billet blocks frequently?
I like it, the man makes perfect sense. 99% of people are not running 2000 hp plus and don’t want to deal with the extras of billet. The hellcat block can make 1800 whp safely thus far and it’s iron. Still pushing the limits of iron. Another interesting thing about iron is that it gets stronger as it seasons from age while being capable of being bored no sleeve needed gaining cubes. Much cheaper to. Sometimes old ideas work the best.
It's not an old idea it's the preferred idea if the car's weight isn't an issue. Factory aluminum blocks are plenty strong. Lots of idiot tuners and idiot owners a match mad in heavy for the aftermarket and auto insurance industry.
@@primeralwhy on earth do you need even 1,000 hp? NHRA's new rules only cover new cars with side airbags. If you are going to street race it, I got news for you, even if you actually went down to Mexico not just metaphorically like some of you like to say online which is lots of racist tropes in it, you would get stopped and jailed by the feds or military depends. That is the problem these days people say they want something but have no practical use for it.
@@dj4monie Bro what is up your ass 🤣. Aluminum isn’t plenty strong and damn sure not factory. Aluminum expands faster than steel or steel iron which the sleeves you need after 800whp basically f the bores up without it. This is why iron is preferred. And what are you even talking about Mexico for 🤣. It’s obviously been done and people never went to jail hence the vast amount of videos 🤣. And turbo cars can be turned down via tune for street hence the reason they call it street racing your racing the surface based on your tuning ability. People want this to drag and roll race and maybe some street who knows but it’s their purgative and they should have the right to purchase not just because your feelings think that less than 1000 hp is exceptable in 2023.
@@dj4monie and what are you talking about NHRA and side air bags for? Where do they have side airbags? They require roll cages to a certain spec and safety equipment. In any-case what’s this have to do with aluminum or iron RB blocks? Aluminum is used in NHRA in the most powerful cars in the world but it’s far from what you see in these blocks they are billet. And these motors make a pass and are torn down and refreshed every pass used for weight and because they can repair the blocks being billet. Irons cheaper gives better flexibility to the person on size through rebuild and are cheap to replace often more reliable than aluminum while holding more boost pressure typically than standard aluminum. Kind of a no brainer especially when people don’t care as much today about turning if they wanted that buy a Porsche. People care about roll racing, drag racing, formula drift, and dirt rally. Very few want to watch supercars go round and round only sold to the rich yuppie and still slow.
This reminds me of the volvo 5 cylinder engines. They have a problem with cracking the aluminium bores. But they have the same bolt pattern as the diesel 5 cylinder. So you can use the diesel iron block with a petrol head. And that way you can go way upp in power before they break.
Been hunting a diesel AWD trans for some time in the US and it's impossible 😂 but great to know I filled the deck and shimmed it with some nice headbolts. Has held up to 750hp well but the AWD I keep destroying the front dif meeting the haldex collar. Any tips? S70 so kinda heavy.
@@oliverscorsim glad to hear the engine holds upp. From what i understand the AWD on them is just fragile. There is however a dude on youtube who built an AWD 850. And if i remember correctly he designed a billet front diff.
Extremely logical approach, to deal with the limitations of a legacy engine. I’d expect products like this, will ultimately find application in other markets, driving increased demand for for greater production volume. Idealistically, that should bring down cost.
There are only 2 billet blocks I know of that are actually meant to be driven on the street. The SMX and SML. Seeing an improved cast block for any import is amazing. We've been doing it with American domestic v8s for decades with phenomenal results. Given the advancements in casting and metallurgical technology there's no reason you couldn't cast a stock spec block that's better. Even without the improvements on known issues. The thing I find interesting on these straight six and four cylinder blocks is really how much easier it would be to make something similar to the SMX/SML. Well maybe not easier to make but easier to manage. Only one section of block and one head to go through instead of 2. There's one thing I've always questioned though. For example let's take a look at a billet big block Chevy with 5 inch bore spacing. What parts of a big block Chevy are there? Is it really a big block Chevy? Are these massive billet 2JZ's really a 2JZ? It's like the George Washington's axe theory. If the handle wears out and is replaced and then the head wears out and gets replaced is it George's axe? If you replace every part of an engine can you still call it that engine?
@@4familyman but are they actually meant to be driven on the street and capable of doing any real miles? Or are they able to pull off a 30 minute cruise to fit the street class? Name a billet engine you'd drive a thousand real street and highway miles with and beat the hell out of on the track repeatedly and reliably. There's probably others and I'd genuinely like to know. 👍Sorry I had to edit a bit lol
@@adamtheninjasmith2985 bullet 2j. Geo from real st did drag week with a stock block and then a billet bullet block. And there are a few Evo’s putting street miles on billet blocks. And many many LS’s out there that are cast aluminum from the factory (and stock bottom end record is also a wet block aluminum 5.3) all of which debunks this interview which claims aluminum grows too much to be street driven. Tell that to almost every manufacturer out there nowadays.
@@4familyman The alloys used for cast alimunium factory blocks are not the same as used for billet race blocks. The race blocks use alloys that are chosen for strength because that's the main goal for those blocks - but they have much greater thermal expansion. Same reasons as why aftermarket forged pistons need wider clearances than cast pistons - they're both "aluminium" but the properties are very different because of the details of the alloy and how it's maufactured.
@@narnarnarnarnarn They use hypereutectic aluminum for casting because it has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion. The silicon content of these alloys is typically 16-19% unlike their forged or billet counterparts.
Is PRP using 3d printed sand casting moulds? If not, and they haven’t considered it, they should. Good, “inexpensive” way to test casting methods and part designs, and the sand should be reusable.
Sand casting, unfortunately, doesn't make for an accurate enough cast. You CAN powder cast, but you need a good high quality casting compound and a decent size vacuum machine to pull the air out. The newer thing is resin printing a block out in burn-out resin casting material, and you can get a perfect cast every time and test prototypes super easily.
I'm honestly surprised there's a business case for an aftermarket cast RB block. I suppose the market may be bigger than I realize in australasia though. I wonder if they're working on a cast aluminum block, that would be an awesome addition, I bet there's some corner carving or lower HP customers that would like a lightweight cast aluminum option. Great info about running the head studs so far down in the block, Steve Morris has said that he doesn't use a torque plate when he bores/hones his SMX engines because the studs are so far down below the deck surface that they don't distort the bore when the cylinder head is bolted down, fascinating stuff! Looking forward to seeing what people do with these blocks for sure.
Nah consider other aftermarket cast blocks. In casting volume prices can come down alot. In theory they could get cheaper then the Nissan heritage motors to replace blown motors by like 20k and offer alresdy upgraded motors with better reliability. After some time they may be able to get the pricing down low enough for that platform that it starts to make sense for more people further helping volume and bring cost down. Eventually getting it down to a reasonable albeit bit expensive option for swaps. It's more long term thinking cost effectiveness and the rest.
Why? He’s just told you pretty much exactly why it makes sense. Eventually, either with high mileage or increased power levels, you will probably crack the standard block. That means a huge number of these cars that get driven will need a new block at some point(bearing in mind this applies to R32s, R33s and R34s) Then, by the time you’ve found a decent block(and OEM RB blocks of course get rarer by the day) and tested it for quality, the cost is pretty much the same as his solution anyway. So, of course the market for these is huge.
@@bmxriderforlife1234 Nismo Heritage isn't even taking orders anymore for blocks or heads. They're on backorder with no clear timeline for when Nissan will actually fulfill the orders even though there's a huge list of people that want them. The prices PRP are quoting is because of the current shortage suddenly 8k USD doesn't seem quite so silly for a block.
@@DOAHunt3r yeah thats a valid point I wasn't even aware of. I'm.jusy hoping a 4 door r34 builder is still available for when I get to my plans. Otherwise 350z or 370z only. But essentially working on some business plans and instead of the usual rush dude buy a lambo or something. I'm gonna build a cool collection of built stuff. Have a 69 gto restomodded that's going mostly stock besides brakes suspension and a few other things. And finding a donor for the driveline swap in it currently. 9500rpm ls7 twincharged making 700 low boost 1400 high boost. Donor is gonna be vintage probably a gto donor if I can or a lemans or tempest gto conversion style. Or a Malibu chevelle. But widebody. Gonna go custom transmission housing to adapt a billet gtr r34 center diff. And then clone but adapted billet style oil pan dry sump front diff housing. Og body lines but enough aero for grip. And goal is 3000lbs or less. Current gto is 2700 and some change. R34 4 door gtr spec conversion restomod fully built. Like a modernized r34. Slightly larger displacement and twincharged but built for revs and wide powerband. Weight reduced and like a fully built gtr but for alot less. But still expensive. 350z/370z awd conversion gtr style. But a bit built. Keeping the engine the stock z platform but built a bit. Just just sequential and some other stuff fully built aftermarket transmission. Since not alot of power modding it for an r35 electromagnetic clutch set up for speed. A few cheap builds. And then my glory. Superlite slc built into a Pagani and Koenigsegg and bugatti slaying machine. K48 destroked to 4.2L twin supers twin turbos. Twinscrew or roots whatever is most efficient at the size I need and has a bypass valve that works best for if need be. So far transmission option is an electromechanical sequential from Koenigsegg pagani and ssc but a company called Cima. Cima t1107. All the flat foot shifting stuff built in and for fast shifting. And the electronically assisted diff from Koenigsegg. Under blower water to air intercooling. And turbo stage water to air. Powered by the ac like dodge but able to run all the time like a cheater Smokey yunick freon dump valve. Ac compressor swap to get as close to redline as possible along with a pulse modulation set up to hit right to redline. Tiny cabin in the slc means cabin cooling won't be effected and more cooling for intake. Plus less heat per charge stage anyways. Hotvee helps spool. Flatplane crank will as well. Packaging is improved with my set up which helps. And twincharged benefits. Plus sized per cylinder bank. Tractive or similar fully active suspension semi custom. Same as what they make for other cars. Just tuned to fit the slc as much as possible with provided data and self tuning and sending in for revalving if need be. Actual professional level aero tuning. And some other suspension work. Abs traction and stability control and high level boost control. And oversized efficient under driven supers being augmented by the most efficient turbos I can manage. Goal is 90 percent boost efficiency. And on the engine a streetable as high as possible assisted by the boost system for a combined like 40 percent efficiency range or better. 1200hp car. Widebodied. 1200kg wet. Max tune. 700rwhp normal tune. But tuned for high rpm peak in a weird wide very mid oriented build and super and vtec helping low rpm torque. Vtec tuned to like 5k rpm sections of the powerband. Geared for 0 to like 63mph ish in first gear so tall like an American car. 316mph 10k redline in 7th. But mostly as a gear to reduce rpms a bit on track and a 2000rpm cruise at highway speeds. Despite tall gearing and high top speed in first. It's over a wide rpm so not quite as tall as some and easier to control. At 1200kg and 1200hp it's equivalent to like an 1800hp ford gt 05/06. And tuning short track and long track performance. Plus lighter accelerates easier and not on a linear scale. Faster revving engine. 1 more gear shift needed but faster shifts and smoother shifts. Less tire stress makes some of the crazy top speeds achievable. And mapping boost to rpms traction available and gear selected will make the extra hp easier to use and usable. Traction control can literally be tuned to how much wheel slip and in which conditions. Meaning can have tune for track racing that still allows some drifting for keep up speed. Kills tires faster but trade offs. Will also have room to go up hp and revs. And ways to remove more weight. But also gonna have a full interior. And a full on windows powered car PC. And be as reliable as a corvette once sorted. Won't hit peak rpms much. Boost is conservative. Not much beyond what a well built k series already does and built sorts per cylinder head it becomes more reasonable in thought. It's like almost 300hp at peak per L but only 150 per cylinder which you can do in a Honda k series albeit usually at lower power levels and per cylinder peaks. But stroke and other stuff is same ish. And a mix of rpms and boost plus efficient boost. And an already efficient engine being tweaked for more efficiency in a less economic speaking context but using the economy side of things to help. It's not just a 4 banger for an economy car with race spec models. It's being turned into an efficient sport engine and race engine. Need the super bypass to still let me use a under blower manifold style water to air. 2 stages of cooling always. And electronically controllable. Tune switching on demand and plan a good number of different tunes. But max tune is gonna be full series twincharged compound boost parallel in the per cylinder sense. And waste gate blowing off alot. Lower boost levels suoer will bypass at a certain point but work like safe antilag. Normal tune probably still both to try and use the super overcoming turbo exhaust restriction a bit and help with scavenging full time via pressure differences and thermal dynamics. And potentially a similar inspired but more basic lotus. K20 swapped. Twincharged. Built transmission but like a 6 speed. Widebody aero package. Suspension upgrades. Tire and rim upgrades. But already a lighter car. And just keeping it like 2000lbs range. Probably like 9k 450 500hp.
This is fantastic 👏 now we have competition for Darts new 2JZ block and heads coming out hope it brings the prices down in a few years because buying 20 to 30 year old hard lived donor's "RB's and 2J's has gotten way to expensive and its still a risk
@devonv2455 how wouldn't a trickle down affect not occur? The reason they've exploded in cost would be the ones that exist are mosstly out of production for the most part and there kind of sport or performance based so have had a tougher life then economy engines from the period no one is chasing mr20dd engines often... supply and demand 🫴 having fresh cast options in decent to high production levels will inevitably help cost eventually as I said in a few years...... look up a used donor engine for RB or 2J....... and both prp and dart have said less the 10k is the sale cost projected and they will have better metal and brand new no stress.......
Thanks YT Algorithm! I have no interest in building a GTR, but this guy knows his customers and makes too much sense! The interviewer knows his stuff too! I enjoyed this as an engine nerd! I do love a straight 6, though. Wish the Barra was common in the US. Cheers from the USA!
I'm in the market for an R32 GT-R & this is somthing I would be interested in my future Engine Project :RB26 . Can't wait to see the finished product. If he can get this block as light or or lighter in weight than the nissan OEM. That would be icing on the cake! Great interview Andre as always!
PRP is the goat, they are doing the one thing nissan should of done from the get-go. Doing it right with everyrhing learned from a previous build and improving for the future. Their even topping the hertiage blocks which honestly is saddening cause they were supposed to be better with current age tech and metalurgy But the price tag is worth the Real passion and dedication these guys show for the RB. Cant beat PRP with what they develope.
Thanks guys. Learnt a bit about billet blocks. Would be awesome to have a dedicated video just on billet blocks. What needs to be done differently in the build process etc. Does the block have to be heated prior to doin bearing and ring clearances etc.
What do you need to know? Anybody that builds race engines can tell you in a ten minute phone call. You don't need a dedicated video for that. Everything Herman said is true. If you don't want to fiddle with stuff before you head over to Starbucks, then a billet block is out of the question. People have been posting driving their cars though an insert fast food joint drive through for years doesn't prove sh*t. The bottom line is, most people haven't driven anything with 500hp, let alone 1000hp and almost nobody with 1,500hp You aren't actively doing anything. You aren't a member of SCCA, British Motor Club, NHRA, IHRA, etc etc etc. I've seen this mindless waste of money before. Building a 1200 hp Evo VIII just because, rarely drove it. Mostly a showcase for the shop that built it. Then people complain about paying taxes, hmmm.
I once had a stock ford 5.0 block crack a few days after torquing the cylinder heads on. It was the right front (facing engine). The stud pulled out and the block cracked down to the oil filter.
2.0 cdti engine that was in the opel insignia have problems in third (midle) main bearing. Due to fact that cast blocks did't rest for long enough before went to machining... whole block warps and the midle main cap bearing sized the crank...
Well, these have the same problem as my 2J. But, I'm not worried, because I'm not running anywhere close to 2J failure. I know the Baltic Supra ran 1300whp out of a stock block for the longest time, until he pushed it past that on his Nitrous setup. These Japanese inline engines are super strong in stock form. I'm just glad folks are still building parts for them. 🤙💪
Inline-6s in general are extremely solid engines. For example, GM's old Vortec 4200 has been getting a bit more attention recently as an American substitute for the Barra, with its big displacement and incredible responsiveness to boost.
You will (still waiting on this one too) have a similar option for your 2jz if you need it, noting Hermans's comment here on cylinder pressure being more meaningful when it comes to what a block will handle than peak HP. Andre also got into that a bit with Julian Godfrey a while back too - Taz. www.hpacademy.com/blog/darts-2500hp-aftermarket-2jz-cast-iron-block/? www.hpacademy.com/blog/700lb-ft-and-43psi-at-4000rpm-4g63-head-cylinder-sealing-julian-godfrey-tech-talk/?
@@griffinfaulkner3514 Blah, GM nuk nuks didn't want to get left out of the inline 6 discussion. Boy Chevy fan boy already got the world to himself but can't be left out of a discussion tisk tisk.
@@dj4monie Until Dodge released the Hurricane, it was literally the only American DOHC i6. There's other US inline-6 engines with legendary reputations (Cummins 12v, Ford's 300), but those are both literal truck engines. And no, I'm not just some GM fanboy, considering my favorite engine is BMW's S65 (glorious 8.5k RPM cross-plane noises), rod bearings and all.
I love the idea of an aftermarket cast iron rb block. I actually thought of running head studs through to the mains before i am glad someome is actually experimenting to pust boundaries like this. Ive seen what bullet does in Adelaide and they build Amazing quality billet alloy blocks. I am actually trying to work on something similar and new but without infringement on anyone elses idea.
Herman also sells Bullet blocks too I believe. They do some great work in that area for sure! What engine platform are you working on? It is hard to have an original idea but so long as you're not just copying someone, inevitably some amount crossover within the same market is going to happen and that is OK. More creates more when it come to good competition. This is a great listen if you haven't found it already with Darren from Bullet: www.hpacademy.com/blog/041-hunting-for-huge-reliable-power-is-billet-the-answer-podcast/ - Taz.
I actually met Darren a long time ago as i am originally from Adelaide. I am a mechanic but have always been trying to create new technology since i was a teenager. I am 39 now, and Darren has actually looked at one of my development projects and tried to help me before. Its hard when you dont want to share design/production information with everybody along with the cost of prototyping and renting industrial real estate also having engineering guys come in and work with me under confidentiality clauses. It was getting way too hard. I am working as a workshop foreman for a big company at the top of Queensland at the moment and trying to buy my own premises. I actually have 2x different projects that look viable. Also i have designed everything so i can manufacture myself in house under the right set up with no partnership's. One of the projects is a complete new way to structure an engine block. Ill try and show you as soon as i can achive proof of concept and have a provisional patent.
@@edwardbayley1842 not sure if you're aware, the DJR RS500 Sierra group A engines built by Bryant Engineering in Brisbane for DJR back in the late 80's early 90s had studs going from the mains to the head. Not sure if that was a common thing for other YB Cosworth builders to do.
I'm a diehard billet person myself and for me the most important thing is stud diameter. You can have the fanciest rocker arms on the market and alloy HSS pushrods but if your studs can't handle the whiplash without flopping all around you might as well toss the keys to grandma.
Yes ultimately the stronger you make everything you just move the 'fuse' around as to what is the weakest link in the chain. This will never be a direct replacement for billet, just an alternative for builds that are more on the street side of things than lightweight race - Taz.
Thanks again everything you guys do! I can’t wait till I’m able to afford some of programs you offer as it is abundantly clear that this kind of information is what can make the difference between a project working and staying in budget versus turning into a money pit that never leaves the garage. Looking forward to the payment plan options as well. Stand up guys offering incredible value and doing business in a way that other people should take note of. Cheers from the US. Looking forward to the next tuned in! If possible, can you guys reach out to Brett Lasala in the US. He’s been having consistent results with his coyote platform and I’d love to hear Andre pick his brain for a few hours.
Cheers for the guest request mate! I've passed that onto Brad here who handles the podcast =) We often have some coupons floating around when it comes to course discounts, you can always email and ask and we will share any active one we have. Other than that, it is almost Black Friday, we will do a Chritmas promotion too but Black Friday week is usually a bit bigger 😉 Again you can always email and have a chat about your project goals too and we can help you figure out what will help you the most for where you're at with things. Thanks again for the kind words and hopefully we can wrangle Brett Lasala at some stage for you guys 😀 - Taz.
Sounds like a 2JZ copy for the RB.. Should do well, wondering how it will compare to Dart Block new 2JZ cast block as it has all the bells for $4500USD
You mean in terms of cost? Don’t forget he’s talking in Australian dollars(I assume). The PRP block with all the bells and whistles will be around $10000 AUD, at today’s exchange rate that’s $6375 USD
Back in the 60s and 70s, Chrysler used a superior high nickel cast iron alloy in their blocks. They were hard, had no cracking problems, and lasted a long time with minimal bore wear.
This is an awesome piece of news for street driven Skyline GTR owners, looking forward to obtaining one in the UK. Hats off to the guys making this happen. 👏 and
Spun cast ? I remember a story told about BMW cast race engines, the block would be cast and then taken behind the workshop and left there for a few weeks, employee's were encouraged to take a piss on them, then when machined there was less warping or twist due to the stress relieving before machining.
Would you ever consider making prototypes using a 3d printer with the extruder swiped out with a wire wielder. the idea of making a 36in by 36in 3d printer using stainless steel wire to make a custom stainless engine block intriguing.
It's interesting to me that billet blocks are so commonplace in Ozzie and Kiwi circles where you RARELY find them in the US for anything that's even remotely streetable (unless it's a Drag Week car). I believe it's the wide range of temperatures and humidities that you see in the US as compared to Australia. I'm also curious as to why cast iron was used vs cast aluminum - I'm assuming that the weight savings isn't nearly as considerable in an RB block. In a tall-deck LS or BBC, you're easily losing 100-150 pounds off the front end if you're building something that has a lot of power but can also handle.
If you take something like the 2jz block and can improve on its design, make it better stronger or the rb then go for it. Billet blocks ain't cheap and wasn't there a company in the US doing something similar last year for the 2j block, improving on the cast design but doing it without aluminium. Sure for just a block they were saying it was either 2500 or 3500 used at that time.
Dart do an aftermarket cast iron 2jz: www.hpacademy.com/blog/darts-2500hp-aftermarket-2jz-cast-iron-block/ Note Herman is talking AUD here when it comes to prices, and until they are for sale who really knows what it will come out at but it will be less than a billet block either way 🤘 - Taz.
@@hpa101 yes thats the one i remember, these old engines designs with some improvements looks to be the future of aftermarket blocks. The rb and 2j blocks now are either getting rare or crazy prices, so these improved designs from cast I expect will be a big hit given what they offer.
For sure! You don't need to buy things like this to enjoy the knowledge side of it all. If you want some insight into what goes into designing a billet block this is a great watch too. We've also had both Herman and Oksar as well as Darren from Bullet Race Engineering and Mark from Mazworx on the podcast too who dive into similar topics as Herman has here - Taz. www.hpacademy.com/blog/tech-talk-3000hp-10500rpm-4-cylinder-elmer-racings-106kg-billet-block/ www.hpa-tunedin.com/
Not hating or picking nits, here... But don't all the stated negatives for "billet blocks" also apply to cast aluminum blocks? It seemed all the gripes were on account of thermal characteristics - tight bearing clearances when cold, etc. I've set up a handful of aluminum Ford 4.6 engines - and there's always a pucker factor when measuring the main clearance at 0.001" cold. But that's what it takes... And there's TONS of OEM aluminum blocks out there doing just fine. Am I missing something? I'm not claiming to be an expert - I'm genuinely curious.
They're using ductile iron for these blocks. For your question, the manufacturing process is not the same, but importantly nor is material: th-cam.com/video/mOtSM_F14TA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=jme9jsFnb6gmUvoQ&t=4002 You can fact check that elsewhere to be sure and you can look up all the different materials listed by those doing casting and billet blocks to compare yourself. I think Oskar from Elmer Racing touches on this too when it comes to some material options within billet: www.hpacademy.com/blog/tech-talk-3000hp-10500rpm-4-cylinder-elmer-racings-106kg-billet-block/ Other podcasts that might touch on that, I can't remember sorry, will be Mark from Mazworx, Darren from Bullet and Oskar of Elmer Racing - Taz www.hpacademy.com/podcasts/
3~mm, damn that's thin. I suppose with all the issues mentioned in the video, which I have never heard of. I am grateful that my engines are a min of about 6.5- 7mm bore thickness and more around the 8-9mm at the deck. As far as failures, only splitting the block down the center when pushing high rpm and boost have been seen a handful of times, but all have been after the valley has unnecessarily been drilled all the way along in the center of the valley for "oil drainage". I'd love to see cast iron Buick motor sport blocks go into production again with modern improvements, but more so the heads since they are historic items now and highly sort after. The alloy blocks aren't that great and needs lots of machining and mods to be even assembly ready and suffer some of the issues mentioned in the video. Interestingly, when cast grey and ductile iron are concerned, they are a lot stiffer and dimensionally stable than steel and aluminum and also have extremely good dampening properties, meaning that shock and vibration are absorbed within the material all the while remaining stiff. All great properties for any engine. Also, although there is little info out there, higher nickel content iron alloys were used in some US engine including Pontiac 455, Buick V8s and then the V6. These alloys have exceptional wear properties well above anything I have encountered before.
if you are running tight tolerances (tight at room temp) you need to be very careful with warm up. Many people are anyway just for mechanical sympathy, but it's not a choice with billet. Any supplier will give you a rundown on what they recommend in regards to warm up procedure. Some do use pre-heaters etc, we've covered them before for a time attack application also noting people are located in all sorts of different climates around the world. If you are running looser clearances, which you will be for a high power application, you will need an external oil pump or a dry sump to deal with the low oil pressure. This could be a deal breaker for some people, and not something others really consider an issue at all for how they use their vehicle - Taz.
Forged aluminum blocks with pressed in steel sleeves are best for reliability and durability. If building a race engine use custom made forged aluminum pistons made by BME with your specs.
Nice work on the new cast block. If it was said what this new xast block material is? I couldn't tell from my phone if it was cast aluminum or cast iron?
I think it's weird that the comparison is for an expensive block instead of creating a market all to themselves and making others join them. I think it's a missed opportunity to solve a problem for the masses rather than going after the higher end folks with $10k spend for an empty block. Why wouldn't this be offered at $4-$5k which is still expensive, but it seems nothing has reasonable pricing anymore. But if the regular person actually had a replacement option available, they would be able to move more units in general and then leave to $10k for the blocks with all the options that are clearly looking to push the power potential.
If it was that easy to produce at such a 'reasonable' price, there would be people doing it already for sure. If you disagree, to be fair, no one is stopping you from putting it all on the line and diving into a business idea like that. I don't mean that in a negative snarky way either, it would be great if you are right about this and could do it 😎 - Taz.
This is awesome news! Just finished my Nitto 2.8 in 05U block. I will likely use one of these as a spare when I max out my 6870 or hurt my block. Is there an ETA or ordering list? Can we buy them completely built from PRP with pistons and rods, fully assembled?
@@BigPhatGreek interesting. I see the preorder option on their website. I will likely wait and see how these work out since my stroker motor just got finished. Maybe buy one for next year or so.
@@BigPhatGreekyeah bro! You gotta do the PRP block brace if you’re going over 500hp and launching it. My block spent over 1 year at the machine shop. Nitto 2.8 with a Headgames head shooting for ~800whp with a PPG sequential! Should be running in my R33 in the next couple months!
@BigPhatGreek they look like AUD prices which would convert to be around 6,500 USD to 9,500 USD. That said, it's hard to bank on a price until they are officially good to go 😁 - Taz.
The future is bright because as technology advances cnc manufactured or 3d printed engine blocks will start to become cheaper and cheaper and way more available.
Not the end at all for sure, billet blocks are still lighter and repairable (comparatively). For a high powered street application though aftermarket cast is certainly ticking a lot of the right boxes and a good 'better than middle' ground - Taz.
Nearly a decade ago, John Mihovetz prepped a cast oem Teksid 4.6 4V FoMoCo block, oe cast B-port heads, oe timing components and Kellogg crank ultimately running a 5.88 @ 256mph @ 2,500 lbs race weight. Dyno'd 3,000+ @ 10,000 rpm @ 55 psi In 2019, John also prepped the oe cast 5.4L Ford in a 2006 GT and that engine holds the standing mile world record of 300.4 mph in 21 seconds from zero. That one made around 2900 hp @ 9,500 @ 50 psi. Brett Lasala has gone 6.33 @ 225 mph with a sleeved cast Predator block, ported GT350 heads and Coyote crank. 2506 rwhp @ 47 psi. Ford's Cast parts work just fine.
10k is actually very reasonable for a block thats able to handle that kind of power and more accurately the torque reliably. This sounds like it could be a game changer. Proof will be in the pudding though I don’t doubt the kiwi’s will get this right
I want a billet block, the exception is they cost too much when in reality it’s why? There are so many people with rb’s that would love one that the amount of purchases would jump making up for the massive cost. Just hope this iron block isn’t the same boat.
They are not 'cheap', but are a cheap investment for those that need them compared to constantly having to buy, machine and then build OEM blocks. They use high quality metal alloys and mass production doesn't scale like casting. Not everyone needs a billet block 😎 - Taz.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Bucking The Trend
0:18 - RB26 Factory Cast Block Cracking
1:40 - Modified Engine Issue Only?
2:24 - RB26 Horsepower Reliability
3:01 - Horsepower Doesn't Kill Blocks
4:04 - What Is 'Wrong' Billet?
5:22 - Billet On A Street Car
6:12 - Billet Thermal Expansion
6:56 - Aftermarket Cast Block
8:15 - Serviceability
8:47 - Sleeves
9:03 - Deck & Headstud Upgrades
10:37 - Proof Of Concept And Development
12:02 - Finite Element Analysis (FEA)/Simulation
13:15 - Pricing Options
14:38 - Billet Is For A Different Use Case
15:06 - Thanks Herman!
15:55 - Exciting Times!
16:05 - BUILD | TUNE | DRIVE
I love the way Andre knows just how to elaborate and ask the right questions during the interviews. He's one of the best interviewers I've ever witnessed.
yes in this field he is one of the best
He knows the answers to the questions he asks. That's incredibly powerful. He can basically coach his interviewee into speaking their information eloquently, and helps them form responses by exactly picking his questions.
He's definitely one of the best I've ever seen.
Exactly my thoughts! He always knows how to ask a question to a guest to elevate the level of interview. This is simply fantastic.
It's because he already knows the answers.
Cheers for the praise! Andre will be chuffed 😎
Andre has a broad base of knowledge, but he absolutely does have a chat with guests like Herman before an interview to get a lay of the land. No man is a lonely island when it comes to the knowledge side of things.
From there it's just a matter of putting things out there at a level almost any car enthusiast will understand, and hopefully enjoy too 🤘 - Taz.
11:57 "we'll let it sing and try and break the thing" 😂 sheer poetry
I really appreciate the fact that companies are starting to bring back the legends. Albeit at a price tag that is expensive to a lot of people. But gtr owners most of the time have gtr budgets which help. Just like the dart 2j block that's coming out, by the time it lands in Australia your almost on par with a bullet billet block for price. The thing I like about billet is if you happen to window the block you can have it repaired
Spot on🤘🏻👌🏻
You seemed to miss a lot of point about the cast block vs billet block which is a large reason why prp are coming out with a high hp capable cast block…
Actually if it wasn't for the 20 year limit on importing JDM cars combined with Gen X increase in income as they reach peak earnings, that is the reason new anything is being brought forward with 20+ year old vehicles with limited appeal.
Just be happy but don't go all warm and fuzzy because that isn't why, it's economics and the general public needs a block will hold the power.
But I'll wait for more R33-R34's in the insurance wrecks lot because the general public has never driven a car with 500 hp let alone 1000 hp.
I'm an R32 gtr owner. I have less budget than the average micra owner 😅 personally, I think that bringing an 8k block to market, is a massive achievement, and I am already saving for one . ❤
Cracked or windowed cast iron and alloy blocks can be repaired if no galleries have been damaged, the reason it is not done often is that with most cast blocks it is cheaper to just get another one.
Look up metal stitching of blocks for cast iron, I have seen that done a number of times on diesel engines where another block was unobtainable or crazy expensive.
It is great though that a lot of classic vehicles can be kept running through aftermarket companies, I learned a heap through listening to this video.
Herman's passion shows ... these are the guys you want to support ! great work.
Couldn't agree more!
Just wants a good reliable product
this dude is making me want to buy a cast block when i have nothing to put it in
haha yes he is pretty enthusiastic about this which shines through eh! Did you check out his podcast episode? - Taz.
www.hpacademy.com/blog/086-forget-billet-for-a-second-whats-with-aftermarket-cast-blocks-podcast/?
Awesome interview! Love when the interviewee can spit the facts & numbers without hesitation. Smart guy right there
Much appreciated!
Great episode. As I’m a toolmaker who’s been in the casting industry for many years it amazing what’s actually involved in making a casting accurate and consistent is very time consuming. But you learn every day on what works and what doesn’t. Venting,risers to feed during cooling and volume of liquid are the criticals.
I am the guy who inspects castings. You are spot on. When we get early run castings to inspect, we have a lot of rejectable areas due to shrinkage, missed areas, gas pockets, and cracking. We report all of our findings and send them the film to review, and they tweak their molds and pour and usually have all of the areas corrected after 2 or 3 revisions.
Is it "easier" to cast limited production bits like this because adding thicker sections to be milled off and additional risers isn't a big deal as the cost structure of an aftermarket performance part is fine with adding those operations and some additional material usage?
The long head stud method has been done on cosworth yb's for ages.
Really impressed with Herman's attention to detail on blocks with inherent flaws and improving them where it counts.
I am an advocate of cast iron blocks, yes they may be heavier, but honestly who can afford to keep repairing or replacing billet blocks frequently?
I like it, the man makes perfect sense. 99% of people are not running 2000 hp plus and don’t want to deal with the extras of billet. The hellcat block can make 1800 whp safely thus far and it’s iron. Still pushing the limits of iron. Another interesting thing about iron is that it gets stronger as it seasons from age while being capable of being bored no sleeve needed gaining cubes. Much cheaper to. Sometimes old ideas work the best.
I am in that 99% who would be perfectly happy with 1999 hp
It's not an old idea it's the preferred idea if the car's weight isn't an issue.
Factory aluminum blocks are plenty strong.
Lots of idiot tuners and idiot owners a match mad in heavy for the aftermarket and auto insurance industry.
@@primeralwhy on earth do you need even 1,000 hp?
NHRA's new rules only cover new cars with side airbags.
If you are going to street race it, I got news for you, even if you actually went down to Mexico not just metaphorically like some of you like to say online which is lots of racist tropes in it, you would get stopped and jailed by the feds or military depends.
That is the problem these days people say they want something but have no practical use for it.
@@dj4monie Bro what is up your ass 🤣. Aluminum isn’t plenty strong and damn sure not factory. Aluminum expands faster than steel or steel iron which the sleeves you need after 800whp basically f the bores up without it. This is why iron is preferred. And what are you even talking about Mexico for 🤣. It’s obviously been done and people never went to jail hence the vast amount of videos 🤣. And turbo cars can be turned down via tune for street hence the reason they call it street racing your racing the surface based on your tuning ability. People want this to drag and roll race and maybe some street who knows but it’s their purgative and they should have the right to purchase not just because your feelings think that less than 1000 hp is exceptable in 2023.
@@dj4monie and what are you talking about NHRA and side air bags for? Where do they have side airbags? They require roll cages to a certain spec and safety equipment. In any-case what’s this have to do with aluminum or iron RB blocks? Aluminum is used in NHRA in the most powerful cars in the world but it’s far from what you see in these blocks they are billet. And these motors make a pass and are torn down and refreshed every pass used for weight and because they can repair the blocks being billet. Irons cheaper gives better flexibility to the person on size through rebuild and are cheap to replace often more reliable than aluminum while holding more boost pressure typically than standard aluminum. Kind of a no brainer especially when people don’t care as much today about turning if they wanted that buy a Porsche. People care about roll racing, drag racing, formula drift, and dirt rally. Very few want to watch supercars go round and round only sold to the rich yuppie and still slow.
I like this guy with PRP.
Real clear on his information and understandable.
Great interview.
This reminds me of the volvo 5 cylinder engines. They have a problem with cracking the aluminium bores.
But they have the same bolt pattern as the diesel 5 cylinder. So you can use the diesel iron block with a petrol head. And that way you can go way upp in power before they break.
Been hunting a diesel AWD trans for some time in the US and it's impossible 😂 but great to know I filled the deck and shimmed it with some nice headbolts. Has held up to 750hp well but the AWD I keep destroying the front dif meeting the haldex collar. Any tips? S70 so kinda heavy.
@@oliverscorsim glad to hear the engine holds upp. From what i understand the AWD on them is just fragile. There is however a dude on youtube who built an AWD 850. And if i remember correctly he designed a billet front diff.
@@oliverscorsim the channel is "simplyvolvo" i believe.
Extremely logical approach, to deal with the limitations of a legacy engine. I’d expect products like this, will ultimately find application in other markets, driving increased demand for for greater production volume. Idealistically, that should bring down cost.
There are only 2 billet blocks I know of that are actually meant to be driven on the street. The SMX and SML. Seeing an improved cast block for any import is amazing. We've been doing it with American domestic v8s for decades with phenomenal results. Given the advancements in casting and metallurgical technology there's no reason you couldn't cast a stock spec block that's better. Even without the improvements on known issues. The thing I find interesting on these straight six and four cylinder blocks is really how much easier it would be to make something similar to the SMX/SML. Well maybe not easier to make but easier to manage. Only one section of block and one head to go through instead of 2. There's one thing I've always questioned though. For example let's take a look at a billet big block Chevy with 5 inch bore spacing. What parts of a big block Chevy are there? Is it really a big block Chevy? Are these massive billet 2JZ's really a 2JZ? It's like the George Washington's axe theory. If the handle wears out and is replaced and then the head wears out and gets replaced is it George's axe? If you replace every part of an engine can you still call it that engine?
There are plenty of wet billet blocks out there. Not at all correct to say that smx/sml are the only ones.
@@4familyman but are they actually meant to be driven on the street and capable of doing any real miles? Or are they able to pull off a 30 minute cruise to fit the street class? Name a billet engine you'd drive a thousand real street and highway miles with and beat the hell out of on the track repeatedly and reliably. There's probably others and I'd genuinely like to know. 👍Sorry I had to edit a bit lol
@@adamtheninjasmith2985 bullet 2j. Geo from real st did drag week with a stock block and then a billet bullet block. And there are a few Evo’s putting street miles on billet blocks. And many many LS’s out there that are cast aluminum from the factory (and stock bottom end record is also a wet block aluminum 5.3) all of which debunks this interview which claims aluminum grows too much to be street driven. Tell that to almost every manufacturer out there nowadays.
@@4familyman The alloys used for cast alimunium factory blocks are not the same as used for billet race blocks. The race blocks use alloys that are chosen for strength because that's the main goal for those blocks - but they have much greater thermal expansion. Same reasons as why aftermarket forged pistons need wider clearances than cast pistons - they're both "aluminium" but the properties are very different because of the details of the alloy and how it's maufactured.
@@narnarnarnarnarn They use hypereutectic aluminum for casting because it has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion. The silicon content of these alloys is typically 16-19% unlike their forged or billet counterparts.
Love that blokes no BS and naming a price 👍 Legend!
Is PRP using 3d printed sand casting moulds? If not, and they haven’t considered it, they should. Good, “inexpensive” way to test casting methods and part designs, and the sand should be reusable.
That is way too expensive, unless you are only doing protypes, or a super small number of castings.
Sand casting, unfortunately, doesn't make for an accurate enough cast. You CAN powder cast, but you need a good high quality casting compound and a decent size vacuum machine to pull the air out. The newer thing is resin printing a block out in burn-out resin casting material, and you can get a perfect cast every time and test prototypes super easily.
GOTTA THANK YOU AWESOME AUSSIES FOR KEEPING MOTORSPORTS ALIVE OVER THERE !! FROM YOUR CRAZY COUSINS IN FLORIDA !
It Sounds so good,Hope they will have success with this Project. Great Interview!!!
I'm honestly surprised there's a business case for an aftermarket cast RB block. I suppose the market may be bigger than I realize in australasia though.
I wonder if they're working on a cast aluminum block, that would be an awesome addition, I bet there's some corner carving or lower HP customers that would like a lightweight cast aluminum option.
Great info about running the head studs so far down in the block, Steve Morris has said that he doesn't use a torque plate when he bores/hones his SMX engines because the studs are so far down below the deck surface that they don't distort the bore when the cylinder head is bolted down, fascinating stuff!
Looking forward to seeing what people do with these blocks for sure.
Nah consider other aftermarket cast blocks.
In casting volume prices can come down alot. In theory they could get cheaper then the Nissan heritage motors to replace blown motors by like 20k and offer alresdy upgraded motors with better reliability.
After some time they may be able to get the pricing down low enough for that platform that it starts to make sense for more people further helping volume and bring cost down. Eventually getting it down to a reasonable albeit bit expensive option for swaps.
It's more long term thinking cost effectiveness and the rest.
if its reliable & holds power.
thears good potential for swops into outher platforms😮
Why? He’s just told you pretty much exactly why it makes sense. Eventually, either with high mileage or increased power levels, you will probably crack the standard block. That means a huge number of these cars that get driven will need a new block at some point(bearing in mind this applies to R32s, R33s and R34s) Then, by the time you’ve found a decent block(and OEM RB blocks of course get rarer by the day) and tested it for quality, the cost is pretty much the same as his solution anyway. So, of course the market for these is huge.
@@bmxriderforlife1234 Nismo Heritage isn't even taking orders anymore for blocks or heads. They're on backorder with no clear timeline for when Nissan will actually fulfill the orders even though there's a huge list of people that want them. The prices PRP are quoting is because of the current shortage suddenly 8k USD doesn't seem quite so silly for a block.
@@DOAHunt3r yeah thats a valid point I wasn't even aware of. I'm.jusy hoping a 4 door r34 builder is still available for when I get to my plans.
Otherwise 350z or 370z only.
But essentially working on some business plans and instead of the usual rush dude buy a lambo or something. I'm gonna build a cool collection of built stuff.
Have a 69 gto restomodded that's going mostly stock besides brakes suspension and a few other things. And finding a donor for the driveline swap in it currently. 9500rpm ls7 twincharged making 700 low boost 1400 high boost. Donor is gonna be vintage probably a gto donor if I can or a lemans or tempest gto conversion style. Or a Malibu chevelle. But widebody. Gonna go custom transmission housing to adapt a billet gtr r34 center diff. And then clone but adapted billet style oil pan dry sump front diff housing. Og body lines but enough aero for grip. And goal is 3000lbs or less. Current gto is 2700 and some change.
R34 4 door gtr spec conversion restomod fully built. Like a modernized r34. Slightly larger displacement and twincharged but built for revs and wide powerband. Weight reduced and like a fully built gtr but for alot less. But still expensive.
350z/370z awd conversion gtr style. But a bit built. Keeping the engine the stock z platform but built a bit. Just just sequential and some other stuff fully built aftermarket transmission. Since not alot of power modding it for an r35 electromagnetic clutch set up for speed.
A few cheap builds. And then my glory. Superlite slc built into a Pagani and Koenigsegg and bugatti slaying machine.
K48 destroked to 4.2L twin supers twin turbos. Twinscrew or roots whatever is most efficient at the size I need and has a bypass valve that works best for if need be. So far transmission option is an electromechanical sequential from Koenigsegg pagani and ssc but a company called Cima. Cima t1107. All the flat foot shifting stuff built in and for fast shifting. And the electronically assisted diff from Koenigsegg.
Under blower water to air intercooling. And turbo stage water to air. Powered by the ac like dodge but able to run all the time like a cheater Smokey yunick freon dump valve. Ac compressor swap to get as close to redline as possible along with a pulse modulation set up to hit right to redline. Tiny cabin in the slc means cabin cooling won't be effected and more cooling for intake. Plus less heat per charge stage anyways.
Hotvee helps spool. Flatplane crank will as well. Packaging is improved with my set up which helps. And twincharged benefits. Plus sized per cylinder bank.
Tractive or similar fully active suspension semi custom. Same as what they make for other cars. Just tuned to fit the slc as much as possible with provided data and self tuning and sending in for revalving if need be.
Actual professional level aero tuning. And some other suspension work. Abs traction and stability control and high level boost control. And oversized efficient under driven supers being augmented by the most efficient turbos I can manage. Goal is 90 percent boost efficiency. And on the engine a streetable as high as possible assisted by the boost system for a combined like 40 percent efficiency range or better.
1200hp car. Widebodied. 1200kg wet. Max tune. 700rwhp normal tune. But tuned for high rpm peak in a weird wide very mid oriented build and super and vtec helping low rpm torque. Vtec tuned to like 5k rpm sections of the powerband.
Geared for 0 to like 63mph ish in first gear so tall like an American car. 316mph 10k redline in 7th. But mostly as a gear to reduce rpms a bit on track and a 2000rpm cruise at highway speeds. Despite tall gearing and high top speed in first. It's over a wide rpm so not quite as tall as some and easier to control.
At 1200kg and 1200hp it's equivalent to like an 1800hp ford gt 05/06. And tuning short track and long track performance. Plus lighter accelerates easier and not on a linear scale. Faster revving engine. 1 more gear shift needed but faster shifts and smoother shifts.
Less tire stress makes some of the crazy top speeds achievable. And mapping boost to rpms traction available and gear selected will make the extra hp easier to use and usable.
Traction control can literally be tuned to how much wheel slip and in which conditions. Meaning can have tune for track racing that still allows some drifting for keep up speed. Kills tires faster but trade offs.
Will also have room to go up hp and revs. And ways to remove more weight.
But also gonna have a full interior. And a full on windows powered car PC. And be as reliable as a corvette once sorted. Won't hit peak rpms much. Boost is conservative. Not much beyond what a well built k series already does and built sorts per cylinder head it becomes more reasonable in thought. It's like almost 300hp at peak per L but only 150 per cylinder which you can do in a Honda k series albeit usually at lower power levels and per cylinder peaks. But stroke and other stuff is same ish. And a mix of rpms and boost plus efficient boost. And an already efficient engine being tweaked for more efficiency in a less economic speaking context but using the economy side of things to help. It's not just a 4 banger for an economy car with race spec models. It's being turned into an efficient sport engine and race engine.
Need the super bypass to still let me use a under blower manifold style water to air. 2 stages of cooling always. And electronically controllable. Tune switching on demand and plan a good number of different tunes. But max tune is gonna be full series twincharged compound boost parallel in the per cylinder sense. And waste gate blowing off alot. Lower boost levels suoer will bypass at a certain point but work like safe antilag. Normal tune probably still both to try and use the super overcoming turbo exhaust restriction a bit and help with scavenging full time via pressure differences and thermal dynamics.
And potentially a similar inspired but more basic lotus. K20 swapped. Twincharged. Built transmission but like a 6 speed. Widebody aero package. Suspension upgrades. Tire and rim upgrades. But already a lighter car. And just keeping it like 2000lbs range. Probably like 9k 450 500hp.
This is fantastic 👏 now we have competition for Darts new 2JZ block and heads coming out hope it brings the prices down in a few years because buying 20 to 30 year old hard lived donor's "RB's and 2J's has gotten way to expensive and its still a risk
Having aftermarket blocks available isn’t meant to bring prices down, it’s to have an “option” for those who need it…
@devonv2455 how wouldn't a trickle down affect not occur? The reason they've exploded in cost would be the ones that exist are mosstly out of production for the most part and there kind of sport or performance based so have had a tougher life then economy engines from the period no one is chasing mr20dd engines often... supply and demand 🫴 having fresh cast options in decent to high production levels will inevitably help cost eventually as I said in a few years...... look up a used donor engine for RB or 2J....... and both prp and dart have said less the 10k is the sale cost projected and they will have better metal and brand new no stress.......
Thanks YT Algorithm! I have no interest in building a GTR, but this guy knows his customers and makes too much sense! The interviewer knows his stuff too! I enjoyed this as an engine nerd!
I do love a straight 6, though. Wish the Barra was common in the US. Cheers from the USA!
I'm in the market for an R32 GT-R & this is somthing I would be interested in my future Engine Project :RB26 . Can't wait to see the finished product.
If he can get this block as light or or lighter in weight than the nissan OEM. That would be icing on the cake!
Great interview Andre as always!
I cant wait for these blocks to come out. I want to buy one and keep it new on the shelf for when my 5U block gives out.
PRP is the goat, they are doing the one thing nissan should of done from the get-go. Doing it right with everyrhing learned from a previous build and improving for the future. Their even topping the hertiage blocks which honestly is saddening cause they were supposed to be better with current age tech and metalurgy But the price tag is worth the Real passion and dedication these guys show for the RB. Cant beat PRP with what they develope.
Thanks guys. Learnt a bit about billet blocks. Would be awesome to have a dedicated video just on billet blocks. What needs to be done differently in the build process etc. Does the block have to be heated prior to doin bearing and ring clearances etc.
What do you need to know? Anybody that builds race engines can tell you in a ten minute phone call.
You don't need a dedicated video for that. Everything Herman said is true. If you don't want to fiddle with stuff before you head over to Starbucks, then a billet block is out of the question.
People have been posting driving their cars though an insert fast food joint drive through for years doesn't prove sh*t.
The bottom line is, most people haven't driven anything with 500hp, let alone 1000hp and almost nobody with 1,500hp
You aren't actively doing anything. You aren't a member of SCCA, British Motor Club, NHRA, IHRA, etc etc etc.
I've seen this mindless waste of money before. Building a 1200 hp Evo VIII just because, rarely drove it. Mostly a showcase for the shop that built it.
Then people complain about paying taxes, hmmm.
The Herminator, great work, hugely needed!
Now get onto the other blocks needing help!
Good stuff gentlemen..
I hope you can work on a Barra block as well ..
Herman has got an amazing ability to explain things in layman terms so that everyone can understand exactly what he's on about.
I once had a stock ford 5.0 block crack a few days after torquing the cylinder heads on. It was the right front (facing engine). The stud pulled out and the block cracked down to the oil filter.
Ugh, that hit me right in the feels. How frustrating! - Taz.
This is amazing. No more having to get gouged by resellers if you want an rb26 block
Library knowledge!!! Amazing stuff this guys know!
Really looking forward to these coming out, and the heads. These will be in my next build
2.0 cdti engine that was in the opel insignia have problems in third (midle) main bearing. Due to fact that cast blocks did't rest for long enough before went to machining... whole block warps and the midle main cap bearing sized the crank...
Well, these have the same problem as my 2J. But, I'm not worried, because I'm not running anywhere close to 2J failure. I know the Baltic Supra ran 1300whp out of a stock block for the longest time, until he pushed it past that on his Nitrous setup. These Japanese inline engines are super strong in stock form. I'm just glad folks are still building parts for them. 🤙💪
Inline-6s in general are extremely solid engines. For example, GM's old Vortec 4200 has been getting a bit more attention recently as an American substitute for the Barra, with its big displacement and incredible responsiveness to boost.
You will (still waiting on this one too) have a similar option for your 2jz if you need it, noting Hermans's comment here on cylinder pressure being more meaningful when it comes to what a block will handle than peak HP.
Andre also got into that a bit with Julian Godfrey a while back too - Taz.
www.hpacademy.com/blog/darts-2500hp-aftermarket-2jz-cast-iron-block/?
www.hpacademy.com/blog/700lb-ft-and-43psi-at-4000rpm-4g63-head-cylinder-sealing-julian-godfrey-tech-talk/?
@@griffinfaulkner3514 Blah, GM nuk nuks didn't want to get left out of the inline 6 discussion. Boy Chevy fan boy already got the world to himself but can't be left out of a discussion tisk tisk.
@@dj4monie Until Dodge released the Hurricane, it was literally the only American DOHC i6. There's other US inline-6 engines with legendary reputations (Cummins 12v, Ford's 300), but those are both literal truck engines. And no, I'm not just some GM fanboy, considering my favorite engine is BMW's S65 (glorious 8.5k RPM cross-plane noises), rod bearings and all.
@@toughtimes721 thats horrible take lol shows your colors
Looks like someone snuck in an addition to the mural behind - Front and centre haha 😂
Glad it's not just me seeing that! 😂
Haha thought I was trippin at first 😂
I want the 2cyl rb! lol it’d make a mean power head for an outboard motor or go cart! Even a boosted bike!
Platinum Racing Products made RBs great again with their products and new inventions for these engines 👏👏
I love the idea of an aftermarket cast iron rb block. I actually thought of running head studs through to the mains before i am glad someome is actually experimenting to pust boundaries like this. Ive seen what bullet does in Adelaide and they build Amazing quality billet alloy blocks. I am actually trying to work on something similar and new but without infringement on anyone elses idea.
Herman also sells Bullet blocks too I believe. They do some great work in that area for sure!
What engine platform are you working on? It is hard to have an original idea but so long as you're not just copying someone, inevitably some amount crossover within the same market is going to happen and that is OK. More creates more when it come to good competition.
This is a great listen if you haven't found it already with Darren from Bullet: www.hpacademy.com/blog/041-hunting-for-huge-reliable-power-is-billet-the-answer-podcast/ - Taz.
I actually met Darren a long time ago as i am originally from Adelaide. I am a mechanic but have always been trying to create new technology since i was a teenager. I am 39 now, and Darren has actually looked at one of my development projects and tried to help me before.
Its hard when you dont want to share design/production information with everybody along with the cost of prototyping and renting industrial real estate also having engineering guys come in and work with me under confidentiality clauses. It was getting way too hard.
I am working as a workshop foreman for a big company at the top of Queensland at the moment and trying to buy my own premises.
I actually have 2x different projects that look viable. Also i have designed everything so i can manufacture myself in house under the right set up with no partnership's.
One of the projects is a complete new way to structure an engine block.
Ill try and show you as soon as i can achive proof of concept and have a provisional patent.
@@edwardbayley1842 not sure if you're aware, the DJR RS500 Sierra group A engines built by Bryant Engineering in Brisbane for DJR back in the late 80's early 90s had studs going from the mains to the head. Not sure if that was a common thing for other YB Cosworth builders to do.
I'm a diehard billet person myself and for me the most important thing is stud diameter. You can have the fanciest rocker arms on the market and alloy HSS pushrods but if your studs can't handle the whiplash without flopping all around you might as well toss the keys to grandma.
Yes ultimately the stronger you make everything you just move the 'fuse' around as to what is the weakest link in the chain. This will never be a direct replacement for billet, just an alternative for builds that are more on the street side of things than lightweight race - Taz.
Thanks again everything you guys do! I can’t wait till I’m able to afford some of programs you offer as it is abundantly clear that this kind of information is what can make the difference between a project working and staying in budget versus turning into a money pit that never leaves the garage. Looking forward to the payment plan options as well. Stand up guys offering incredible value and doing business in a way that other people should take note of. Cheers from the US. Looking forward to the next tuned in! If possible, can you guys reach out to Brett Lasala in the US. He’s been having consistent results with his coyote platform and I’d love to hear Andre pick his brain for a few hours.
Cheers for the guest request mate! I've passed that onto Brad here who handles the podcast =)
We often have some coupons floating around when it comes to course discounts, you can always email and ask and we will share any active one we have.
Other than that, it is almost Black Friday, we will do a Chritmas promotion too but Black Friday week is usually a bit bigger 😉
Again you can always email and have a chat about your project goals too and we can help you figure out what will help you the most for where you're at with things.
Thanks again for the kind words and hopefully we can wrangle Brett Lasala at some stage for you guys 😀 - Taz.
Super great that this platform will live on
Sounds like a 2JZ copy for the RB.. Should do well, wondering how it will compare to Dart Block new 2JZ cast block as it has all the bells for $4500USD
You mean in terms of cost? Don’t forget he’s talking in Australian dollars(I assume). The PRP block with all the bells and whistles will be around $10000 AUD, at today’s exchange rate that’s $6375 USD
great interview hope it goes well,it all makes sense to me.
Great interview- more RB’s 😮always a good thing..😁
Back in the 60s and 70s, Chrysler used a superior high nickel cast iron alloy in their blocks. They were hard, had no cracking problems, and lasted a long time with minimal bore wear.
This is an awesome piece of news for street driven Skyline GTR owners, looking forward to obtaining one in the UK. Hats off to the guys making this happen. 👏 and
Same here mate!
Is no one going to mention the bit of art in the middle, under the ignition coil? Either way, love this casting revival happening in the industry.
Was looking for this comment lol
Spun cast ? I remember a story told about BMW cast race engines, the block would be cast and then taken behind the workshop and left there for a few weeks, employee's were encouraged to take a piss on them, then when machined there was less warping or twist due to the stress relieving before machining.
This video made me say "That actually makes a lot of sense"
Best at what they do
Would've been brilliant see the testing that 2 cylinder, have to make a 2 pot crank and head and see it running??
now that would be worth watching..
I'm curious if any of the aftermarket cast blocks for anything are using compacted graphite iron like the OEMs are using for new blocks?
He mentioned new casting methods - those 3D sand printers are incredible for making the molds
😂Who put that PP in the back ground art🤣
😅😅😅
Beat me to it!!! I was gonna ask what was up with the ding dong on the banner.
Soooooo are we going to say something or make a discord with this new found info… PP IYKYK
Bit of a 'dick move' eh - Taz.
They put a shaft on the crank shaft girdle
People are daily driving smx big blocks?
Would you ever consider making prototypes using a 3d printer with the extruder swiped out with a wire wielder. the idea of making a 36in by 36in 3d printer using stainless steel wire to make a custom stainless engine block intriguing.
Can we get a big bore EJ version?
crazy! good thing prp takes the matter in their own hands!
Did anyone else notice the little pen15 in the graphics on the backdrop.
Will we be able to slap a 25/25 neo head on the cast block ?
Who doesn't warm an engine before the set off?
Definitely not me staring at the peener🤣🤣such a happy little guy
Im curious would a stainless steel bullet block be of any advantage in the racing world in regards to boost
8:50 missing 2 cylinder's?
Great interview. Still wondering why cast in steel when there has been a great amount advancements in aluminum.
Can’t wait to get a prp cast block for my r33
Im a cast iron titanium sleeved smacked out general
I don't understand -- why would boosting at higher RPMs save an engine, given the same PSI?
It's interesting to me that billet blocks are so commonplace in Ozzie and Kiwi circles where you RARELY find them in the US for anything that's even remotely streetable (unless it's a Drag Week car). I believe it's the wide range of temperatures and humidities that you see in the US as compared to Australia. I'm also curious as to why cast iron was used vs cast aluminum - I'm assuming that the weight savings isn't nearly as considerable in an RB block. In a tall-deck LS or BBC, you're easily losing 100-150 pounds off the front end if you're building something that has a lot of power but can also handle.
If you take something like the 2jz block and can improve on its design, make it better stronger or the rb then go for it. Billet blocks ain't cheap and wasn't there a company in the US doing something similar last year for the 2j block, improving on the cast design but doing it without aluminium. Sure for just a block they were saying it was either 2500 or 3500 used at that time.
Dart do an aftermarket cast iron 2jz: www.hpacademy.com/blog/darts-2500hp-aftermarket-2jz-cast-iron-block/
Note Herman is talking AUD here when it comes to prices, and until they are for sale who really knows what it will come out at but it will be less than a billet block either way 🤘 - Taz.
@@hpa101 yes thats the one i remember, these old engines designs with some improvements looks to be the future of aftermarket blocks. The rb and 2j blocks now are either getting rare or crazy prices, so these improved designs from cast I expect will be a big hit given what they offer.
I'll never have an RB engine but I'm learning so much anyway.
For sure! You don't need to buy things like this to enjoy the knowledge side of it all. If you want some insight into what goes into designing a billet block this is a great watch too.
We've also had both Herman and Oksar as well as Darren from Bullet Race Engineering and Mark from Mazworx on the podcast too who dive into similar topics as Herman has here - Taz.
www.hpacademy.com/blog/tech-talk-3000hp-10500rpm-4-cylinder-elmer-racings-106kg-billet-block/
www.hpa-tunedin.com/
Anyone else notice the CB in the center of the back ground?
Would be sick if they built that 2 cylinder “RB block” with all the high performance parts and dyno’d it to see how much power it could make lol
Not hating or picking nits, here... But don't all the stated negatives for "billet blocks" also apply to cast aluminum blocks? It seemed all the gripes were on account of thermal characteristics - tight bearing clearances when cold, etc. I've set up a handful of aluminum Ford 4.6 engines - and there's always a pucker factor when measuring the main clearance at 0.001" cold. But that's what it takes... And there's TONS of OEM aluminum blocks out there doing just fine. Am I missing something? I'm not claiming to be an expert - I'm genuinely curious.
They're using ductile iron for these blocks.
For your question, the manufacturing process is not the same, but importantly nor is material: th-cam.com/video/mOtSM_F14TA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=jme9jsFnb6gmUvoQ&t=4002
You can fact check that elsewhere to be sure and you can look up all the different materials listed by those doing casting and billet blocks to compare yourself.
I think Oskar from Elmer Racing touches on this too when it comes to some material options within billet: www.hpacademy.com/blog/tech-talk-3000hp-10500rpm-4-cylinder-elmer-racings-106kg-billet-block/
Other podcasts that might touch on that, I can't remember sorry, will be Mark from Mazworx, Darren from Bullet and Oskar of Elmer Racing - Taz
www.hpacademy.com/podcasts/
3~mm, damn that's thin. I suppose with all the issues mentioned in the video, which I have never heard of. I am grateful that my engines are a min of about 6.5- 7mm bore thickness and more around the 8-9mm at the deck.
As far as failures, only splitting the block down the center when pushing high rpm and boost have been seen a handful of times, but all have been after the valley has unnecessarily been drilled all the way along in the center of the valley for "oil drainage". I'd love to see cast iron Buick motor sport blocks go into production again with modern improvements, but more so the heads since they are historic items now and highly sort after.
The alloy blocks aren't that great and needs lots of machining and mods to be even assembly ready and suffer some of the issues mentioned in the video.
Interestingly, when cast grey and ductile iron are concerned, they are a lot stiffer and dimensionally stable than steel and aluminum and also have extremely good dampening properties, meaning that shock and vibration are absorbed within the material all the while remaining stiff. All great properties for any engine.
Also, although there is little info out there, higher nickel content iron alloys were used in some US engine including Pontiac 455, Buick V8s and then the V6. These alloys have exceptional wear properties well above anything I have encountered before.
Now you need to finish that two cylinder RB make it a motorcycle engine
Doing amazing work Herman. Next do SR20 please
If products like this go well I'm sure we'll see an SR version somewhere at some stage, probably even a 4G63 too - Taz.
@hpa101 can you elaborate on what Herman meant about cold start ups with billet engines? Is there a procedure for street cars?
if you are running tight tolerances (tight at room temp) you need to be very careful with warm up. Many people are anyway just for mechanical sympathy, but it's not a choice with billet. Any supplier will give you a rundown on what they recommend in regards to warm up procedure. Some do use pre-heaters etc, we've covered them before for a time attack application also noting people are located in all sorts of different climates around the world.
If you are running looser clearances, which you will be for a high power application, you will need an external oil pump or a dry sump to deal with the low oil pressure.
This could be a deal breaker for some people, and not something others really consider an issue at all for how they use their vehicle - Taz.
Cast iron was behind billet but most can’t do what billets can. Maybe Big Block Chevy or Hemis other than that good luck
Neither is behind or in front, they are simply different and lend themselves better to different use cases - Taz.
Cast aluminum block next with ductile iron sleeves! For those wanting less weight and only 1500hp, lol
Forged aluminum blocks with pressed in steel sleeves are best for reliability and durability. If building a race engine use custom made forged aluminum pistons made by BME with your specs.
How long does it take a billet block to warm up properly??
Nice work on the new cast block. If it was said what this new xast block material is? I couldn't tell from my phone if it was cast aluminum or cast iron?
Cast iron - Taz
What's the deal with those OS Giken RB30 cast iron blocks? Also, how about billet rotary engines, are they also not practical for street use?
Random question so does this mean essentially a billet made block and everything else could last forever if kept at lower power levels?
Nothing that involves moving parts will last forever - Taz.
@@hpa101 understood my brotha
Can they do it with the 2JZ block also now?
HI; just wondering if this cased block has gone thru multipy heat cycles to normalise the block before machining so to keep the tolerance true...
I think it's weird that the comparison is for an expensive block instead of creating a market all to themselves and making others join them. I think it's a missed opportunity to solve a problem for the masses rather than going after the higher end folks with $10k spend for an empty block. Why wouldn't this be offered at $4-$5k which is still expensive, but it seems nothing has reasonable pricing anymore. But if the regular person actually had a replacement option available, they would be able to move more units in general and then leave to $10k for the blocks with all the options that are clearly looking to push the power potential.
If it was that easy to produce at such a 'reasonable' price, there would be people doing it already for sure. If you disagree, to be fair, no one is stopping you from putting it all on the line and diving into a business idea like that.
I don't mean that in a negative snarky way either, it would be great if you are right about this and could do it 😎 - Taz.
This is awesome news! Just finished my Nitto 2.8 in 05U block. I will likely use one of these as a spare when I max out my 6870 or hurt my block. Is there an ETA or ordering list? Can we buy them completely built from PRP with pistons and rods, fully assembled?
They are sold out of pre orders probably at least a year + backorder 10-15 k USD
@@BigPhatGreek interesting. I see the preorder option on their website. I will likely wait and see how these work out since my stroker motor just got finished. Maybe buy one for next year or so.
@@BrianCrofoot I gotta get in as soon as I can since my 33 should land state side this month. Dam Aussies got me scared about the cracks haha
@@BigPhatGreekyeah bro! You gotta do the PRP block brace if you’re going over 500hp and launching it. My block spent over 1 year at the machine shop. Nitto 2.8 with a Headgames head shooting for ~800whp with a PPG sequential! Should be running in my R33 in the next couple months!
@BigPhatGreek they look like AUD prices which would convert to be around 6,500 USD to 9,500 USD. That said, it's hard to bank on a price until they are officially good to go 😁 - Taz.
The future is bright because as technology advances cnc manufactured or 3d printed engine blocks will start to become cheaper and cheaper and way more available.
Not the end of billet aluminum blocks, will still be used for ultra small production projects 😊
Not the end at all for sure, billet blocks are still lighter and repairable (comparatively). For a high powered street application though aftermarket cast is certainly ticking a lot of the right boxes and a good 'better than middle' ground - Taz.
Hopefully they make it affordable for the 99% of us that cant afford a billet block.
It will cost less comparatively, but it's still not going to be 'cheap' if you're chasing 1200hp builds etc by any means to be straight up - Taz.
Для драга мы применяем блок rd28
Nearly a decade ago, John Mihovetz prepped a cast oem Teksid 4.6 4V FoMoCo block, oe cast B-port heads, oe timing components and Kellogg crank ultimately running a 5.88 @ 256mph @ 2,500 lbs race weight. Dyno'd 3,000+ @ 10,000 rpm @ 55 psi
In 2019, John also prepped the oe cast 5.4L Ford in a 2006 GT and that engine holds the standing mile world record of 300.4 mph in 21 seconds from zero. That one made around 2900 hp @ 9,500 @ 50 psi.
Brett Lasala has gone 6.33 @ 225 mph with a sleeved cast Predator block, ported GT350 heads and Coyote crank. 2506 rwhp @ 47 psi. Ford's Cast parts work just fine.
Which one of those is a 2.6L straight six? - Taz.
Great video thank you HP ACADEMY!!!
Cheers for the support!
Well. 3/4 way there in the savings. Now just need a chassis.
I had no idea rb’s were cast iron blocks. I didn’t think people still used iron over aluminum for expansion purposes. “Aluminum head in iron block”
This channel gets folks to give away ALL the secrets!
Not really he’s basically doing a promo for the PRP cast RB block.
Genius ...hats off....long live rb....
10k is actually very reasonable for a block thats able to handle that kind of power and more accurately the torque reliably. This sounds like it could be a game changer. Proof will be in the pudding though I don’t doubt the kiwi’s will get this right
I think its very reasonable, you're getting a block that should last practically forever on a reasonable power street car.
I want a billet block, the exception is they cost too much when in reality it’s why? There are so many people with rb’s that would love one that the amount of purchases would jump making up for the massive cost. Just hope this iron block isn’t the same boat.
They are not 'cheap', but are a cheap investment for those that need them compared to constantly having to buy, machine and then build OEM blocks.
They use high quality metal alloys and mass production doesn't scale like casting.
Not everyone needs a billet block 😎 - Taz.