Guys, thanks for still covering aspects of EV ownership that us late-to-the-party folk are only now considering in any detail. Also appreciate your/Nicola's style of info-dense production without being condescending.
If you think WLTP is unrealistic, check CLTC ranges. They're pure fantasy. Currently the EPA ratings are the most accurate in the World and they are roughly 11% lower than WLTP.
We run a small fleet of 7 vans at work for mainly local car parts deliveries.. they rarely do more than 100 miles in a day per van.. we own the vans. Some are older and are costing us more and more each month in repairs . We’ve toiled with the idea of switching to a couple of electric vans but one main problem is that our company will not allow ANY (petrol,diesel, or EV) vehicle to left on charge overnight even outside the workshops! We’re told this is down to insurance company stipulation ! It’s Backwards and anti EV if you ask me! Meanwhile we spend hundreds a month on repairs of an aging fleet as well as aprox £1000 fuel costs on top!
Companies don't like being told by subordinates what to do. Might be worth dropping a name into a fleet company specialising in van sales with headline numbers ready prepared to call the person responsible for the vans.
Trouble is in winter when you work in the building trade you will have wet gear going into the back of the van which causes condensation. First thing we use do when a new van turned up with the partition wall factory fitted was drill a series of 6 inch holes in that partition wall and fit grills to them to keep warm flowing into the back of the van to keep it dry. That is not going to work when you're driving an EV van because as you said Nicola you don't have the heat produced by an ICE van. It will work fine for those that are doing deliveries etc where you leave a store fully loaded but your return journey is empty but a trades person will always have dead weight on board due to which ever trade they work in. There will always be for and against either mode of travel no matter what is providing the motion until we can get that damn star trek transporter system working 🤣🤣. Enjoyed your review as always though.
@madmcadder4536 Spent 40 years of my life as a plumber dealing with water glad I came away with some extra knowledge 😂. First time I did it to a work van boss came along and told me I was paying for a whole new cargo division panel to which I replied fine but give me these first two months Jan/Feb to prove my point. I won. Maybe today's vans come with rear heaters, I don't know as I retired in 2013.
Yes regen is only good if you definitely NEED to reduce your speed. Regaining lost speed is less efficient than maintaining your speed even with regen.
Wish every car manufacturer would let us decide between maximum regen or zero, and steps between. I love regen in active and city driving but would prefer zero on highways.
The initial part of the brake pedal travel is regenerative, so choosing a stronger regen mode upon liftoff of the accelerator pedal doesn't produce more energy being place back in the battery than using the brake pedal. You can freewheel and regen brake as required (producing the same benefit) without having your foot stuck to the accelerator for a high percentage of your drive time.
Ive found a non problem but its interesting. If you are charged to 100% the regen cant work so less braking on one peddle.Its all because the batteries cant accept any more until it has used some electricity.
WLTP simply means Would Like To Pretend!! My little Renault Zoe was a very good, comfortable supermini. The Would Like To pretend was 230 miles. The real world range was 125-175 miles depending on when you drive. Mine had 175 miles in summer and 125 miles in winter!!
..And let us see how and why a particular variant of regen works - my personal experience of regen is that it only makes about 5% difference in around-town driving with the accasional open road: I now plan my routes and journey times with that in mind and often find myself using minimal settings on regen as getting their at `full speed` is often beneficial... especially if I use fast A-road or Motorway, where regen (and by implication braking) makes much less difference..
It's hard to digest everything is electric tips. But if you have mastered the way of electric driving, you will gonna stretch you WLTP miles even further!!! PRO TIP: If I am driving on the highway and don't need to speed, I am playing a game to slipstream behind the fastest truck. You will save 25% energy! Great explanation, Nicola! ❤ 👍
Hi Nicola, whilst I love your videos and your delivery, there is one thing you missed out, now hear me out, I'm not from UK or US or any country that has flat roads, in fact where I live we have hilly mountain roads and lots of them, the weather is nice all year around and we get no winter, I live on an island in the Indian ocean, good news is we don't have seasons, we have monsoons and the weather is mostly warm here so electric vehicles should be happy, but these types of roads manufacturersnever talk about, don't get me wrong doesn't that affect range also? And some countries still have not even installed charging stations.
Something I wish I knew before is that realistically you never go 0-100% but maybe the battery never goes below 15% or above 90% that means that the real range you could get on a daily basis is reduced. So my car can manage 320km on a full charge but I'm never driving that much on a row and rarely charge up to max. So I have to charge every 250km or so(about twice a week)
Great video but I think you actually need to point out that much of what applies to EVs also applies to ICE (however obvious that is to most), so while everyone attacks the supposed range of an EV, they then cherry pick the best possible mpg of a petrol or diesel car and don't consider that weather affects them too. People doing short trips in town will be better in an EV than an ICE car that will be very inefficient until warmed up, as well as putting more wear on the engine.
Oi, Electrifying, what's this interesting little van thingy, eh? I can't tell any of the seven zillion SUVs apart (nor do I ever want one), but I'd like to know a lot more about a van like this. More of this, please. And anything else non-SUV and practical. Or just interesting somehow.
There was another website _(I dare not say who, mainly because I've forgotten.🤔🤷♂),_ who did a long range run. I believe it was Lands End to John O'Groats(?). From a start of 100%, one car topped up to 80% every time it needed to stop while the other topped up to just 50%. They wanted to see which one would get to the destination in the fastest time. If I remember correctly, the 50% top up car won.
On the 21st October '24, *Fleet News* published an article based on a report by Pro-BEV organisation "The Neighbourhood Community Business" that revealed that each electric van costs business £17,000 in "downtime" (charging), which is 8 times the cost of the electricity used.
@@AlanTov Commercial vehicles tend to have short ranges and slow charging. All time spent at a charger is time the employer is paying a staff member to sit around, doing nothing and not bringing any money into the business.
Use an A road and you can't go faster than 60 and save electric. What's wrong with using the motorway, avoiding roundabouts and traffic lights etc (which use energy with start/stop driving) and deciding not to drive any faster than 60?
In most parts of America you will get pulled for impeding the flow of traffic for driving 60 mph on the Interstate. At the least it's inconsiderate. Why should everyone else on the road be inconvenienced because you bought a car that isn't fit for purpose?
@@Noah_E Heavy truck traffic is limited to 60-65 MPH on the interstate in the US. Vehicles pulling trailers are limited (in most states) to this speed as well. Not too much of an annoyance if one stays in the right hand lane with the trucks.
@@Noah_E I know that it's much different for our American cousin's. My sister lives there and thinks nothing of driving 3 or 4 hours just for a meal. Unthinkable here. It's only the wrong vehicle for the purpose if you use it for the wrong purpose. The time will come when they will have autoroute ranges. 10 years ago my first EV had an 70 miles range. My latest a genuine 225 at 60 mph.
Welcome to the world of Sales Reps. 250m per day, on average. Did 700k in a day last week. I definitely need a 450m battery, as charging in my country is slow, and expensive.
I think that comparing different vehicles’ ranges is much too complex for a specified system with the range tested on a machine rather than a guy driving the vehicle along the road.
W-e L-ie T-o P-eople? While we're on the subject of battery size, when two battery sizes are offered for the same vehicle, will the larger option hold its value better than the smaller one? And if so, is it the same sort of difference as the full purchase price? Obviously earlier batteries were sometimes different chemistry between the same models like the Leaf so prices varied more.
Another big issue with electric vans is that the weight of their batteries has a big impact on payload and therefore business efficiency. I speak as someone who had responsibility for a fleet of over 50 3.5 tonne (and over) Transits which we had to put over weigh bridges before they could leave, A 1.8 tonne payload might be more like 1.0 tonne with an even moderate range battery pack. You would also need a substantial power connection to be able to charge overnight. I am an EVangelist but EVs will not work for every scenario.
i was told by the dealer Fiat that i should not use eco mode, but use normal b mode if i am driving out of town, plus if i drive at normal speeds between 60mph and 70mph on duel carrage way i loose 30% plus of the cars battery for 46 miles distance when it should only use 25% i have a Fiat 600e which says it has a range of 248 miles which of course it has never achieved.
Everywhere its recommended to charge no more then 80%. And keep the minimum above 20%. So from the wltp you get max 60% anyhow....but nobody is talking about real world range driving.....
Very good explanations, Nicola. And EV neophytes need them, for the fossil fools have instilled in them a fear of running out of charge somewhere on the highway. Duh! Haven't people ever run out of gas? Same thing. Just pay attention to your fuel gauge, folks. An EV will even warn you when that gauge is dropping low. In reality, range applies to all types of vehicles, but with different sources and measurements of energy. Miles-per-kWh is just the EV equivalent of MPG -but a gallon of gas contains about the same energy as 33.7 kWh. What irks me is that, unlike all other EVs, Teslas measure that efficiency as Watts-per-Mile. Duh. Imagine if your gas car displayed Ounces-per-Mile. Derp!
Not something that has bothered me so far. Only had an EV for 6 weeks, and not done a thousand miles yet. Car drops to around 20%, I put it on 4 hour 40 min charge overnight, it says 75% in the morning. Costs about £2.70 for a weekly charge.
In Australia, like the US, it's all about SPEED...... charging, talking and everything in-between. Try having a Sunday drive..... and you will be grateful that you don't have that famous 'second amendment' FREEDOM. Best of luck driving efficiently !!!.
I wonder why they didn't say as much? I believe they are starting a van series, so it just might be that she just used this vehicle out of convenience.
Plug my car in twice a week on my drive. 10 times cheaper than petrol. Plenty enough range. Rather than 30 mins roundtrip for Asda petrol. That's less hassle
What would be useful is to see a scale of `regen` according to the mode, not just talk about it in the hypothetical? For example `Your 200 mile range will extend to 215 with Regen on full.` Seeing how `regen` affects the individual car and the effect of the various settings would be more useful than the `illusory` WLTP range.... Please bear in mind in future reviews.
Great video. Thank you for convincing me not to buy a EV. Appreciate the effort you guys at Electrifying are putting into these videos to stop those who are considering going EV. 👍
I looked into an eTransit. There was no way to make it make sense. The higher depreciation and insurance would negate any fuel savings, and the low range and extra downtime for charging would make it impractical for anything other than intown jobs.
@@Noah_EAbsolutely, even with the added extra maintenance cost of ICE vehicles, it's still hard to justify purchasing any EV vehicles. Tyres on most EV's and Hybrids are much more expensive than ICE vehicles because of the extra weight of the battery. EV tech is evolving very fast and there is no need to buy an expensive EV vehicle that will be old tech as soon as you drive it out of the showroom.
£2k for a bigger battety over 4 year lease. 11 hours extra charging a year mean thisr 11 hours earn £45 an hour. That's how i see money. Who earns over £45 an hour after tax?
Guys, thanks for still covering aspects of EV ownership that us late-to-the-party folk are only now considering in any detail. Also appreciate your/Nicola's style of info-dense production without being condescending.
WLTP = Way Less Than Predicted (lol)
Ho ho, never heard that before
😄😄😄😄😄
😂😂😂😂😂😂
NEDC - Not Even Damn Close
If you think WLTP is unrealistic, check CLTC ranges. They're pure fantasy. Currently the EPA ratings are the most accurate in the World and they are roughly 11% lower than WLTP.
We run a small fleet of 7 vans at work for mainly local car parts deliveries.. they rarely do more than 100 miles in a day per van.. we own the vans. Some are older and are costing us more and more each month in repairs . We’ve toiled with the idea of switching to a couple of electric vans but one main problem is that our company will not allow ANY (petrol,diesel, or EV) vehicle to left on charge overnight even outside the workshops! We’re told this is down to insurance company stipulation !
It’s Backwards and anti EV if you ask me! Meanwhile we spend hundreds a month on repairs of an aging fleet as well as aprox £1000 fuel costs on top!
Companies don't like being told by subordinates what to do. Might be worth dropping a name into a fleet company specialising in van sales with headline numbers ready prepared to call the person responsible for the vans.
After four years of EV ownership, I completely agree with your advice. Well done a useful informative video.
Trouble is in winter when you work in the building trade you will have wet gear going into the back of the van which causes condensation. First thing we use do when a new van turned up with the partition wall factory fitted was drill a series of 6 inch holes in that partition wall and fit grills to them to keep warm flowing into the back of the van to keep it dry. That is not going to work when you're driving an EV van because as you said Nicola you don't have the heat produced by an ICE van. It will work fine for those that are doing deliveries etc where you leave a store fully loaded but your return journey is empty but a trades person will always have dead weight on board due to which ever trade they work in. There will always be for and against either mode of travel no matter what is providing the motion until we can get that damn star trek transporter system working 🤣🤣. Enjoyed your review as always though.
Very good point. This is a case of manufacturers not researching the people that use the vehicles and getting feed back.
@madmcadder4536 Spent 40 years of my life as a plumber dealing with water glad I came away with some extra knowledge 😂. First time I did it to a work van boss came along and told me I was paying for a whole new cargo division panel to which I replied fine but give me these first two months Jan/Feb to prove my point. I won. Maybe today's vans come with rear heaters, I don't know as I retired in 2013.
Maybe more on regen please, as regen is not the panacea it seems. Can be less than 50% passed back. Better to freewheel more or adaptive.
Yes regen is only good if you definitely NEED to reduce your speed. Regaining lost speed is less efficient than maintaining your speed even with regen.
Wish every car manufacturer would let us decide between maximum regen or zero, and steps between. I love regen in active and city driving but would prefer zero on highways.
@@HarrythehunHyundai give you six options ... Regen levels 0, 1, 2, 3, Auto and i-pedel
Yes, better to anticipate more. Lower regen will charge back more over time
The initial part of the brake pedal travel is regenerative, so choosing a stronger regen mode upon liftoff of the accelerator pedal doesn't produce more energy being place back in the battery than using the brake pedal.
You can freewheel and regen brake as required (producing the same benefit) without having your foot stuck to the accelerator for a high percentage of your drive time.
Apart from regen and battery temperature it’s the same as fuel consumption on ICE - drive like a numpty and you run out earlier. Thanks for the video.
Great tips for new EV drivers. Explained simply and amazing how much information you could fit in to 8 minutes and 10 seconds!
Ive found a non problem but its interesting. If you are charged to 100% the regen cant work so less braking on one peddle.Its all because the batteries cant accept any more until it has used some electricity.
WLTP simply means Would Like To Pretend!! My little Renault Zoe was a very good, comfortable supermini. The Would Like To pretend was 230 miles. The real world range was 125-175 miles depending on when you drive. Mine had 175 miles in summer and 125 miles in winter!!
..And let us see how and why a particular variant of regen works - my personal experience of regen is that it only makes about 5% difference in around-town driving with the accasional open road: I now plan my routes and journey times with that in mind and often find myself using minimal settings on regen as getting their at `full speed` is often beneficial... especially if I use fast A-road or Motorway, where regen (and by implication braking) makes much less difference..
An excellent video - well done. I enjoyed the information vs humour mix - again, nice work.
Great explainer, thanks.
Everthing I already knew but Nicola is the best teacher, where do I leave the apple ?
It's hard to digest everything is electric tips. But if you have mastered the way of electric driving, you will gonna stretch you WLTP miles even further!!!
PRO TIP: If I am driving on the highway and don't need to speed, I am playing a game to slipstream behind the fastest truck. You will save 25% energy!
Great explanation, Nicola! ❤ 👍
Good explainer video. Thank you, Nicola.
Fantastic presenter 👍👏👏👏👏
Hi Nicola, whilst I love your videos and your delivery, there is one thing you missed out, now hear me out, I'm not from UK or US or any country that has flat roads, in fact where I live we have hilly mountain roads and lots of them, the weather is nice all year around and we get no winter, I live on an island in the Indian ocean, good news is we don't have seasons, we have monsoons and the weather is mostly warm here so electric vehicles should be happy, but these types of roads manufacturersnever talk about, don't get me wrong doesn't that affect range also? And some countries still have not even installed charging stations.
And wear warm clothing in the winter to save energy used by the heater.
Something I wish I knew before is that realistically you never go 0-100% but maybe the battery never goes below 15% or above 90% that means that the real range you could get on a daily basis is reduced. So my car can manage 320km on a full charge but I'm never driving that much on a row and rarely charge up to max. So I have to charge every 250km or so(about twice a week)
Great video but I think you actually need to point out that much of what applies to EVs also applies to ICE (however obvious that is to most), so while everyone attacks the supposed range of an EV, they then cherry pick the best possible mpg of a petrol or diesel car and don't consider that weather affects them too.
People doing short trips in town will be better in an EV than an ICE car that will be very inefficient until warmed up, as well as putting more wear on the engine.
Oi, Electrifying, what's this interesting little van thingy, eh? I can't tell any of the seven zillion SUVs apart (nor do I ever want one), but I'd like to know a lot more about a van like this. More of this, please. And anything else non-SUV and practical. Or just interesting somehow.
There was another website _(I dare not say who, mainly because I've forgotten.🤔🤷♂),_ who did a long range run. I believe it was Lands End to John O'Groats(?).
From a start of 100%, one car topped up to 80% every time it needed to stop while the other topped up to just 50%. They wanted to see which one would get to the destination in the fastest time.
If I remember correctly, the 50% top up car won.
On the 21st October '24, *Fleet News* published an article based on a report by Pro-BEV organisation "The Neighbourhood Community Business" that revealed that each electric van costs business £17,000 in "downtime" (charging), which is 8 times the cost of the electricity used.
Was the report inferring that the vans were being used 24 hours a day?
@madmcadder4536 Fleet News didn't specify.
If you charge overnight that makes no sense at all. And of course off peak electricity is massively cheaper than petrol.
@@AlanTov Commercial vehicles tend to have short ranges and slow charging. All time spent at a charger is time the employer is paying a staff member to sit around, doing nothing and not bringing any money into the business.
Use an A road and you can't go faster than 60 and save electric. What's wrong with using the motorway, avoiding roundabouts and traffic lights etc (which use energy with start/stop driving) and deciding not to drive any faster than 60?
In most parts of America you will get pulled for impeding the flow of traffic for driving 60 mph on the Interstate. At the least it's inconsiderate. Why should everyone else on the road be inconvenienced because you bought a car that isn't fit for purpose?
@@Noah_E Heavy truck traffic is limited to 60-65 MPH on the interstate in the US. Vehicles pulling trailers are limited (in most states) to this speed as well. Not too much of an annoyance if one stays in the right hand lane with the trucks.
@@Noah_E I know that it's much different for our American cousin's. My sister lives there and thinks nothing of driving 3 or 4 hours just for a meal. Unthinkable here. It's only the wrong vehicle for the purpose if you use it for the wrong purpose. The time will come when they will have autoroute ranges. 10 years ago my first EV had an 70 miles range. My latest a genuine 225 at 60 mph.
Could put a mattress in the back, that could also warm the van up
Finding load not affecting my van range much as it's 75kwh
I find no regen of motorways helps and regen in towns and small road only
How often are you driving more than 150 m per day? Is the range the real issue?
Welcome to the world of Sales Reps. 250m per day, on average. Did 700k in a day last week. I definitely need a 450m battery, as charging in my country is slow, and expensive.
I have always said that, I will test drive an EV when it´s -30 celsius outside, like at january. Then I see how it really performs.
I think that comparing different vehicles’ ranges is much too complex for a specified system with the range tested on a machine rather than a guy driving the vehicle along the road.
You have to drink every time Nicola says “eBerlingo”
In my diesel car I won’t let it go below 170 miles left I usually fill up at 200 /230 miles left
W-e L-ie T-o P-eople? While we're on the subject of battery size, when two battery sizes are offered for the same vehicle, will the larger option hold its value better than the smaller one? And if so, is it the same sort of difference as the full purchase price? Obviously earlier batteries were sometimes different chemistry between the same models like the Leaf so prices varied more.
Another big issue with electric vans is that the weight of their batteries has a big impact on payload and therefore business efficiency. I speak as someone who had responsibility for a fleet of over 50 3.5 tonne (and over) Transits which we had to put over weigh bridges before they could leave, A 1.8 tonne payload might be more like 1.0 tonne with an even moderate range battery pack. You would also need a substantial power connection to be able to charge overnight. I am an EVangelist but EVs will not work for every scenario.
Using the B mode as way to get best range is simply not technically true!
i was told by the dealer Fiat that i should not use eco mode, but use normal b mode if i am driving out of town, plus if i drive at normal speeds between 60mph and 70mph on duel carrage way i loose 30% plus of the cars battery for 46 miles distance when it should only use 25% i have a Fiat 600e which says it has a range of 248 miles which of course it has never achieved.
Rule 1 never ever listen to a garages advice.
Eco is most efficient in any scenario.
Everywhere its recommended to charge no more then 80%. And keep the minimum above 20%. So from the wltp you get max 60% anyhow....but nobody is talking about real world range driving.....
Very good explanations, Nicola. And EV neophytes need them, for the fossil fools have instilled in them a fear of running out of charge somewhere on the highway. Duh! Haven't people ever run out of gas? Same thing. Just pay attention to your fuel gauge, folks. An EV will even warn you when that gauge is dropping low. In reality, range applies to all types of vehicles, but with different sources and measurements of energy. Miles-per-kWh is just the EV equivalent of MPG -but a gallon of gas contains about the same energy as 33.7 kWh. What irks me is that, unlike all other EVs, Teslas measure that efficiency as Watts-per-Mile. Duh. Imagine if your gas car displayed Ounces-per-Mile. Derp!
How is that any different from L/100 km, which is what a lot of the world uses instead of mpg?
We use kWh/100km, duh. Are you stuck on an island, duh?
Not something that has bothered me so far. Only had an EV for 6 weeks, and not done a thousand miles yet. Car drops to around 20%, I put it on 4 hour 40 min charge overnight, it says 75% in the morning. Costs about £2.70 for a weekly charge.
It's called HYPERMILING
In Australia, like the US, it's all about SPEED...... charging, talking and everything in-between. Try having a Sunday drive..... and you will be grateful that you don't have that famous 'second amendment' FREEDOM. Best of luck driving efficiently !!!.
Sponsored by Citroen...
I wonder why they didn't say as much? I believe they are starting a van series, so it just might be that she just used this vehicle out of convenience.
Such a hassle, sticking with petrol for the time being
Plug my car in twice a week on my drive. 10 times cheaper than petrol. Plenty enough range.
Rather than 30 mins roundtrip for Asda petrol.
That's less hassle
@AlanTov yep, that works for you. But driving a van as in the video we're commenting about, different story.
What would be useful is to see a scale of `regen` according to the mode, not just talk about it in the hypothetical? For example `Your 200 mile range will extend to 215 with Regen on full.` Seeing how `regen` affects the individual car and the effect of the various settings would be more useful than the `illusory` WLTP range.... Please bear in mind in future reviews.
What’s for certain, if you use the performance of an EV like all you journo’s bleat on about, 0-60 etc the range plummets if you do.
Isn't your husband an actor? Doesn't he take a video-thumbnail that reads "What is range? And how can you improve it?" rather personally?
Buy petrol. Problem solved.
Great video. Thank you for convincing me not to buy a EV. Appreciate the effort you guys at Electrifying are putting into these videos to stop those who are considering going EV. 👍
I looked into an eTransit. There was no way to make it make sense. The higher depreciation and insurance would negate any fuel savings, and the low range and extra downtime for charging would make it impractical for anything other than intown jobs.
@@Noah_EAbsolutely, even with the added extra maintenance cost of ICE vehicles, it's still hard to justify purchasing any EV vehicles. Tyres on most EV's and Hybrids are much more expensive than ICE vehicles because of the extra weight of the battery. EV tech is evolving very fast and there is no need to buy an expensive EV vehicle that will be old tech as soon as you drive it out of the showroom.
You must be of low intelligence if one video has put you off.
I don’t have anywhere to park a horse, what should I do?
@@Chris-mh3vf 😂
£2k for a bigger battety over 4 year lease. 11 hours extra charging a year mean thisr 11 hours earn £45 an hour. That's how i see money. Who earns over £45 an hour after tax?
What a load of old waffle to fit the electric agenda!
New waffle
The agenda that is aiming to reduce climate change. That one?
Said the little boy waffling and saying nothing to prove their point lol
@@darrens3 lol whatever