I use locked brumels with thimbles for all the standing rigging on my boat. Now I need a bunch of continuous loops, for anchoring purposes. I too, came across in other tutorials the first method you showed, I didn't like it! So thanks for explaining the continuous locked brummel. Well done! That one I trust!! May the Force B with U man, Balkan Shipyards
There's a way to make the locked brummel without the 180 turn and the consequent lump, but it's at least double the work, so I totally get why the commercial producers don't use it. The key is to pass one end through the other one, then unbraid it in the whole length of the bury, divide the strands in two halves, lead them around both sides of the other end and rebraid them there, thus capturing the other end in the middle of this one and forming the brummel. To make it easier, I dont't rebraid the original 12 strand pattern at once, I braid four 3-strand braids first (making sure that strands from both sides of the brummel are in all of them), which I then braid in a 4-strand pattern. Then I do the buries in line, without the 180. I'm sure some strength is lost by the change of the braid pattern, but it should still be more than enough for hammock end loops.
Very good that you put this information out there. People who followed the other instructional video's might be hanging by friction instead of on a locked brummel without even knowing it. One of the videos even called it a locked brummel while what he was making was just the straight splice, smh...
I’m just putting this info out there because I didn’t like how easily the buries came out of the non locked Brummel CL. But as long as you make the buries an adequate length you should be fine. Thanks for the feedback! Nick
The potential slip on the straight splice just happened to me. Fell on my ass getting in my hammock right before bed. Live and learn. Thanks for the info.
Sorry to hear that! Hope you didn’t fall too far! The potential for the bury pulling out is one of the reasons why I opt for the locked brummel method over the straight splice. Thanks for sharing your experience! Nick
I slide on a section of heat shrink tubing before building the loop, slide it back over the junction when done, heat it up to shrink the tubing, and it will prevent the bury from easily getting snagged or pulled out.
Thank you very much for the comparison and quick samples. Great points and straight to the topic. I'm still interested in any info (or experiments/updates :-) with both continuous loops and what would be rope strength after brummeling it or "straight" spicing. Thanks again for the great vid! Stay safe!
NeoShooter it’s my understanding that the “straight splice” is much stronger than the brummel because you’re basically doubling the line. I read that testing on the brummel method broke at the brummel at over 90% of its strength rating. The rating on 7/64” Amsteel is 1,600 pounds, so 90% of that is plenty strong for using it with a hammock. Follow the links in the description of the video... There’s some good information about splicing and testing! Thanks for the comment!
Great video. Some folks don’t know there is a difference and are making videos using loops without a locked brummel (or lock stitch) for life support! It’s a horrible idea and they need to watch your video ASAP.
I hope that anyone watching this vid, and others like it, understands that we’re using this technique for hanging in a hammock, not for life safety. Please do your research and make sure the gear you’re using meets all safety standards for the application for which it is being utilized for. Thanks for the comment.
I'm curious as what is the smallest continuous lock brummel that can be made with the 7/64 diameter dynema? I'm wanting to make a daisy chain. So the smaller the loop the better adjustments for my hang.
Barry Clifford I was also unaware of the locked brummel method when I first started making CL’s. the videos that have the most hits show the other method that most people probably use. Which does the job but should be lock stitched to avoid it backing out. It’s probably unlikely that it will back out if spiced correctly, but why take the chance? Once I saw that the three cottage vendors I spoke to make it using the locked brummel method, that sealed the deal. Thanks for the comment and keep splicing!!
Great video. You explained everything very well. I'm converting all of my hammocks to CL only. That way, no matter what suspension I use, I can keep it separate from my hammock in my pack. Keep the videos coming.
Ed McDonald thanks Ed. I use CL’s on all my setups for that exact reason. And I like having the ability to use different suspension options. Thanks again!
If I’m not mistaken, your retaining at most 30% x 2 of the rope strength with the second method, since the burry is not going inside the other side. Your basically doing two splices (one on each side) connected (in terms of strength). Maybe a little weaker, since you’re going through the middle. Am I missing something? You might not be using knots, but the 180 turn loses the same amount of strength as if you had a knot. So, if my math is not wrong, they strength of the first sling should be 200% (of rope strength), while the second should be 120% (assuming you lose 70% on a bend). The math for the second one is: down to 30% because of the 180 turn, but x2 because there are 2 strands holding it, so 60%; that’s the weak part, so 50% of the load applied to it makes the sling equivalent to 120% strength. I think it’s actually a little less than that because of of the passing through, though I’m not sure about that part.
The locked brummel allows a shorter bury , dream hammock and dutch make them that way to keep costs as low as possible , just look at a set from them and notice the short buries. Twin 5 inch straight buries are proven stronger tensile
Jeff Myers Jeff Myers one of the main reasons for lock stitching is to avoid “creep”, which would be the possibility of the Amsteel backing out of itself. You’re right that with adequate bury lengths it’s probably not an issue, but it can happen. That’s why I like the locking brummel method. It avoids this possibility and still retains 80-90% of its strength rating, which when used in a hammock application is still plenty strong, but avoids the possibility of “creep”. I just measured my CL’s from Dream Hammock and they’re 10-11 inches long with a six inch bury on each side. So I’m not sure how they’re trying to save money... I found this article helpful. Although they are talking about fixed eye loops, the info is still relevant to Continuous Loops. www.google.com/amp/s/ropeandline.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/splicing-an-eye-into-spectra-amsteel-dyneema-12-plait-line/amp/
FYI- the type of knots discussed in the video are very cool and appropriate for this level of stress. However if the splice is to be as strong as the line itself there are things you cant do.
Great infos here! I don't fine any other tutorial or information about the loop built with the brummel lock, that i like a lot. Do you have some link to share? Thank you!
Putting aside the fact that several manufacturers use the "lock Brummel" method, I was curious if you had ever done any load testing between the two methods? I just got done reading a lengthy thread on Hammock Forum regarding continuous loops and it seemed to me that the consensus was that the bury method is actually stronger. With the locked brummel method, all of the load is placed in the "lock" with the buries not actually providing any additional strength since they return into the original side of the cord (hope that makes sense). I don't think either is right or wrong. Inspect your gear before use. Just curious if you had done or seen testing comparing the two.
Ryan Hales I haven’t done any load testing on either method, but I would agree that the straight bury method is probably stronger than the locked brummel method. Through the research that I did, it looks like the locked brummel method retains 80-90% of its rating (7/64” Amsteel is rated to 1600 lbs.). The straight bury method could, theoretically, nearly double its rating since the lines are doubled. Since the locked brummel method is still plenty strong for its use in hammock camping, that is one reason why that method is utilized. The other benefit to the locked brummel method is the fact that it has less chance for the buries to back out or “creep” when not under a load. If you were to lock stitch the straight splice method, that would probably be the best way to go (it would be the most secure and hold the greatest load). Both methods are widely used so either one will work. I just feel more comfortable knowing that the buries have a less likely chance to back out using the locked brummel technique. Great question! 👍👍
OutLan yeah, I thought it was pretty interesting, especially since there’s not really any TH-cam vids on the Locked brummel technique. Thanks for the comment!
Same as you, I didn’t find any hits when I searched for the locked brummel method. That’s one reason that I wanted to make this vid. There’s been a lot of discussion in hammockforums.net about using the locked brummel technique; that’s how I got introduced to it. And then when I saw that some cottage vendors also utilize this method, I thought it should be highlighted more than it is.
That’s called a fixed loop. You can make it using part one of this attachment. Make sure to measure out 6” if you want the loop to be 3” when finished. Enjoy!
Since I am knot crazy about the bump in the brummel loop and the fact that it does a sharp 90 degree turn I've been thinking that maybe the other technique can be improved. What if you not only increase the bury but also add a couple more weaves thru itself on each side before the bury? It just seems like it would add strength and resistance to being pulled out when not under load. My 2 cents. Cheers!
stian222 thanks for the idea. I still think that it doesn’t address the safety issue of not lock stitching that straight splice. The only two methods I would recommend, from a safety perspective, are the locked brummel method or the straight splice with a lock stitch through the buries. If you’re making your own CL and you use the straight splice method with 5 inch buries, I’m pretty confident that the loop will not fail. I wouldn’t recommend it, and it’s not what I would hang with, but you should be ok. For me, because the strength of the loop is a non issue (both methods provide more than enough strength), the major issue is creep (the cordage backing out when not under load). That’s why I prefer the locked brummel method. It protects against creep, and if the buries did come out, you would see it. What about the locked brummel method is concerning to you? The 180° turn may not look as streamline as the straight splice, but it still provides more than enough strength. Thanks for the comment. Nick
@@TripleNickelOutdoors All good points. I mentioned the 90 degree thing as just a weakening point but those of us who are just using these for hammocks don't have anything to worry about. I think I am going to do some experiments and I'll get back here with my findings. Maybe I'll make a video if I come up with anything interesting. And yeah, this splicing is addicting cause Dyneema makes it easy. I don't think I'd be doing it if I had to deal with inner and outer layers. Thanks for keeping the conversation going. Cheers!
Ok, I did it earlier today. I made a quick video w some annoying music which I then couldn’t get rid of. I’ll try to fix it later but in the mean time just turn your volume down. Here’s the link. I am liking this endless loop the more I think about it. It can not pull out even before the bury. I hope you try it once and let me know what you think. Remember to notice the angle used for the ‘weave’ pass throughs. Cheers! Stian th-cam.com/video/eJpdMUQttwY/w-d-xo.html
Huh... nope. Tried one out, and for each side of the rope, half is wrapped around half the other side but in total that still adds up to a whole rope. Albeit a whole rope with a 180 bend in it which is gonna affect ultimate strength, but given that a fixed loop will always have two pieces of cord running side by side while the whoopee sling has a section of single rope, that’s not an issue. The strength of this loop will be less than 200% but way above 100%. I’m have to check which version I put on my hammock a couple years ago...
You’re correct that the loop without the Brummell will be stronger, but the strength of the locked Brummell version is more than adequate while using a hammock. For me, the main reason I like the locked brummel is that the buried strands don’t have a chance to back out. If you’re going to lock stitch the buries than it’s a moot point, but I don’t believe that many people add that level of security.
C Price I’m not a rock climber so I wouldn’t recommend using them for anything that I’m not familiar with. Also, I can assume in rock climbing there is a greater safety factor in the gear that you will be using. If something fails while hammock hanging you only fall a few feet. Whereas, if it fails in rock climbing it could mean serious injury or worse. So always use gear that is recommended and has been tested for its reliability and safety. Good luck!
Both of those techniques are BAD nether is creating a proper Brummell lock pull the loop not the ends and you will see the lock comes apart. The proper way to create a loop with a Brummell lock you need to unbraid the second end and then rebrand it around the opposite side NOT the ends. Whe you pull the loop it is locked. Then bury the ends (and taper)
![[How to] Make a Dyneema Deadeye | Sailing Wisdom](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9-4AYV7jKRA/mqdefault.jpg)
I use locked brumels with thimbles for all the standing rigging on my boat. Now I need a bunch of continuous loops, for anchoring purposes. I too, came across in other tutorials the first method you showed, I didn't like it! So thanks for explaining the continuous locked brummel. Well done! That one I trust!! May the Force B with U man, Balkan Shipyards
There's a way to make the locked brummel without the 180 turn and the consequent lump, but it's at least double the work, so I totally get why the commercial producers don't use it. The key is to pass one end through the other one, then unbraid it in the whole length of the bury, divide the strands in two halves, lead them around both sides of the other end and rebraid them there, thus capturing the other end in the middle of this one and forming the brummel. To make it easier, I dont't rebraid the original 12 strand pattern at once, I braid four 3-strand braids first (making sure that strands from both sides of the brummel are in all of them), which I then braid in a 4-strand pattern. Then I do the buries in line, without the 180. I'm sure some strength is lost by the change of the braid pattern, but it should still be more than enough for hammock end loops.
Very good that you put this information out there. People who followed the other instructional video's might be hanging by friction instead of on a locked brummel without even knowing it. One of the videos even called it a locked brummel while what he was making was just the straight splice, smh...
I’m just putting this info out there because I didn’t like how easily the buries came out of the non locked Brummel CL. But as long as you make the buries an adequate length you should be fine.
Thanks for the feedback!
Nick
Thank you for the informative video. I have one question. Do you ever taper the tail that is fed back into the burry?
Just wanted to say thanks for the info .It helps us to choose the stronger loops.thanks again.
Glad you found it informative!
Nick
The potential slip on the straight splice just happened to me. Fell on my ass getting in my hammock right before bed. Live and learn. Thanks for the info.
Sorry to hear that! Hope you didn’t fall too far! The potential for the bury pulling out is one of the reasons why I opt for the locked brummel method over the straight splice. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Nick
@@TripleNickelOutdoors I don't hang high. Basically it was like trying to sit in a chair that wasn't there LOL.
Good information and well explained. I am a professional Stunt Rigger and I have Brummeled everything for years, eyesplices, et al.
I appreciate the comment! 👍
That’s my job as well although to get certified on a locked Brummell the correct taper is integral to its maintaining the required rating!
Thank you! Really struggled straight splice the emmakites dyneema, it doesn't squeeze it enough. The brummel really worked well!
Awesome. Glad it helped! 👍
Okay A. The other day you taught me more about hammock suspension than I thought I could know. B. Today I subscribe for the intro music.
Good vid...just learning the continues loop.
rich hufnagle awesome. Stay with the splicing! It’s addictive!
I slide on a section of heat shrink tubing before building the loop, slide it back over the junction when done, heat it up to shrink the tubing, and it will prevent the bury from easily getting snagged or pulled out.
Good idea. I think Warbonnet uses a similar technique. Thanks for the info!
Wow, thank you for this informative video.
Glad you found it informative. Thanks for watching!
Thank you very much for the comparison and quick samples. Great points and straight to the topic. I'm still interested in any info (or experiments/updates :-) with both continuous loops and what would be rope strength after brummeling it or "straight" spicing. Thanks again for the great vid! Stay safe!
NeoShooter it’s my understanding that the “straight splice” is much stronger than the brummel because you’re basically doubling the line. I read that testing on the brummel method broke at the brummel at over 90% of its strength rating. The rating on 7/64” Amsteel is 1,600 pounds, so 90% of that is plenty strong for using it with a hammock.
Follow the links in the description of the video... There’s some good information about splicing and testing!
Thanks for the comment!
Great video. Some folks don’t know there is a difference and are making videos using loops without a locked brummel (or lock stitch) for life support! It’s a horrible idea and they need to watch your video ASAP.
I hope that anyone watching this vid, and others like it, understands that we’re using this technique for hanging in a hammock, not for life safety. Please do your research and make sure the gear you’re using meets all safety standards for the application for which it is being utilized for.
Thanks for the comment.
I'm curious as what is the smallest continuous lock brummel that can be made with the 7/64 diameter dynema? I'm wanting to make a daisy chain. So the smaller the loop the better adjustments for my hang.
Good info buddy, thank you.
4:10 Easy answer there. Whip your buried ends but only in line so you don't create a pressure point.
great video Nick. Very informative. I've always made my CLs without the locked brummell and didn't realize there was a more secure method.
Barry Clifford I was also unaware of the locked brummel method when I first started making CL’s. the videos that have the most hits show the other method that most people probably use. Which does the job but should be lock stitched to avoid it backing out. It’s probably unlikely that it will back out if spiced correctly, but why take the chance? Once I saw that the three cottage vendors I spoke to make it using the locked brummel method, that sealed the deal.
Thanks for the comment and keep splicing!!
Great video. You explained everything very well. I'm converting all of my hammocks to CL only. That way, no matter what suspension I use, I can keep it separate from my hammock in my pack. Keep the videos coming.
Ed McDonald thanks Ed. I use CL’s on all my setups for that exact reason. And I like having the ability to use different suspension options. Thanks again!
Thank you so much for sharing this informative video!
Steven Tsai no problem. If you like doing DIY stuff I found the info very interesting and informative!
If I’m not mistaken, your retaining at most 30% x 2 of the rope strength with the second method, since the burry is not going inside the other side. Your basically doing two splices (one on each side) connected (in terms of strength). Maybe a little weaker, since you’re going through the middle. Am I missing something?
You might not be using knots, but the 180 turn loses the same amount of strength as if you had a knot.
So, if my math is not wrong, they strength of the first sling should be 200% (of rope strength), while the second should be 120% (assuming you lose 70% on a bend).
The math for the second one is: down to 30% because of the 180 turn, but x2 because there are 2 strands holding it, so 60%; that’s the weak part, so 50% of the load applied to it makes the sling equivalent to 120% strength. I think it’s actually a little less than that because of of the passing through, though I’m not sure about that part.
The locked brummel allows a shorter bury , dream hammock and dutch make them that way to keep costs as low as possible , just look at a set from them and notice the short buries. Twin 5 inch straight buries are proven stronger tensile
Jeff Myers Jeff Myers one of the main reasons for lock stitching is to avoid “creep”, which would be the possibility of the Amsteel backing out of itself. You’re right that with adequate bury lengths it’s probably not an issue, but it can happen. That’s why I like the locking brummel method. It avoids this possibility and still retains 80-90% of its strength rating, which when used in a hammock application is still plenty strong, but avoids the possibility of “creep”.
I just measured my CL’s from Dream Hammock and they’re 10-11 inches long with a six inch bury on each side. So I’m not sure how they’re trying to save money...
I found this article helpful. Although they are talking about fixed eye loops, the info is still relevant to Continuous Loops.
www.google.com/amp/s/ropeandline.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/splicing-an-eye-into-spectra-amsteel-dyneema-12-plait-line/amp/
@@TripleNickelOutdoors th-cam.com/video/X_X92P2NQxc/w-d-xo.html
Thankyou somuch for great info...we here enjoy verymuch your channel
Thanks so much for the kind words!
Very valuable information, thanks mate!
Solid video. Thanks
John David Anderson thanks for the comment!
FYI- the type of knots discussed in the video are very cool and appropriate for this level of stress. However if the splice is to be as strong as the line itself there are things you cant do.
Awesome ...
Great infos here! I don't fine any other tutorial or information about the loop built with the brummel lock, that i like a lot. Do you have some link to share? Thank you!
Hey thanks for the compliment. If you look in the description to this vid I included some links to some websites.
Good luck and enjoy!
Nick
Putting aside the fact that several manufacturers use the "lock Brummel" method, I was curious if you had ever done any load testing between the two methods? I just got done reading a lengthy thread on Hammock Forum regarding continuous loops and it seemed to me that the consensus was that the bury method is actually stronger. With the locked brummel method, all of the load is placed in the "lock" with the buries not actually providing any additional strength since they return into the original side of the cord (hope that makes sense). I don't think either is right or wrong. Inspect your gear before use. Just curious if you had done or seen testing comparing the two.
Ryan Hales I haven’t done any load testing on either method, but I would agree that the straight bury method is probably stronger than the locked brummel method. Through the research that I did, it looks like the locked brummel method retains 80-90% of its rating (7/64” Amsteel is rated to 1600 lbs.). The straight bury method could, theoretically, nearly double its rating since the lines are doubled. Since the locked brummel method is still plenty strong for its use in hammock camping, that is one reason why that method is utilized. The other benefit to the locked brummel method is the fact that it has less chance for the buries to back out or “creep” when not under a load.
If you were to lock stitch the straight splice method, that would probably be the best way to go (it would be the most secure and hold the greatest load).
Both methods are widely used so either one will work. I just feel more comfortable knowing that the buries have a less likely chance to back out using the locked brummel technique.
Great question! 👍👍
This is really great information. Thanks for sharing!
OutLan yeah, I thought it was pretty interesting, especially since there’s not really any TH-cam vids on the Locked brummel technique.
Thanks for the comment!
Nick where are you finding videos of the locked brummel ,. I find the other but not the locked,
Same as you, I didn’t find any hits when I searched for the locked brummel method. That’s one reason that I wanted to make this vid. There’s been a lot of discussion in hammockforums.net about using the locked brummel technique; that’s how I got introduced to it. And then when I saw that some cottage vendors also utilize this method, I thought it should be highlighted more than it is.
Thanks for the info. What method is used to put a 3" loop on the end of Zing It? I now have knots tied but something like this looks cleaner
That’s called a fixed loop. You can make it using part one of this attachment. Make sure to measure out 6” if you want the loop to be 3” when finished. Enjoy!
www.samsonrope.com/docs/default-source/splice-instructions/12strand_c2_whoopie_sling_amsteel_amsteel-blue_web.pdf?sfvrsn=ae4d2872_2
Since I am knot crazy about the bump in the brummel loop and the fact that it does a sharp 90 degree turn I've been thinking that maybe the other technique can be improved. What if you not only increase the bury but also add a couple more weaves thru itself on each side before the bury? It just seems like it would add strength and resistance to being pulled out when not under load. My 2 cents. Cheers!
stian222 thanks for the idea. I still think that it doesn’t address the safety issue of not lock stitching that straight splice.
The only two methods I would recommend, from a safety perspective, are the locked brummel method or the straight splice with a lock stitch through the buries.
If you’re making your own CL and you use the straight splice method with 5 inch buries, I’m pretty confident that the loop will not fail. I wouldn’t recommend it, and it’s not what I would hang with, but you should be ok.
For me, because the strength of the loop is a non issue (both methods provide more than enough strength), the major issue is creep (the cordage backing out when not under load).
That’s why I prefer the locked brummel method. It protects against creep, and if the buries did come out, you would see it.
What about the locked brummel method is concerning to you?
The 180° turn may not look as streamline as the straight splice, but it still provides more than enough strength.
Thanks for the comment.
Nick
@@TripleNickelOutdoors All good points. I mentioned the 90 degree thing as just a weakening point but those of us who are just using these for hammocks don't have anything to worry about. I think I am going to do some experiments and I'll get back here with my findings. Maybe I'll make a video if I come up with anything interesting. And yeah, this splicing is addicting cause Dyneema makes it easy. I don't think I'd be doing it if I had to deal with inner and outer layers. Thanks for keeping the conversation going. Cheers!
stian222 I enjoy doing it also! Let me know what you come up with!
Be good
Nick
Ok, I did it earlier today. I made a quick video w some annoying music which I then couldn’t get rid of. I’ll try to fix it later but in the mean time just turn your volume down. Here’s the link. I am liking this endless loop the more I think about it. It can not pull out even before the bury. I hope you try it once and let me know what you think. Remember to notice the angle used for the ‘weave’ pass throughs.
Cheers! Stian
th-cam.com/video/eJpdMUQttwY/w-d-xo.html
stian222 ill give it a try! I hope you get some use out of it! At least you know who made it and can trust it....hopefully... 😂👍
Be good
Nick
Lock stitch is not needed with straight 5 inch buries, being larks headed in the hammock and having human weight locking it in , never have an issue
In the middle of the brummel version, isn’t each half of the loop only around half of the strands of the other half?
Huh... nope. Tried one out, and for each side of the rope, half is wrapped around half the other side but in total that still adds up to a whole rope.
Albeit a whole rope with a 180 bend in it which is gonna affect ultimate strength, but given that a fixed loop will always have two pieces of cord running side by side while the whoopee sling has a section of single rope, that’s not an issue. The strength of this loop will be less than 200% but way above 100%.
I’m have to check which version I put on my hammock a couple years ago...
You’re correct that the loop without the Brummell will be stronger, but the strength of the locked Brummell version is more than adequate while using a hammock.
For me, the main reason I like the locked brummel is that the buried strands don’t have a chance to back out.
If you’re going to lock stitch the buries than it’s a moot point, but I don’t believe that many people add that level of security.
Could I use the brummel as my prusic on my rock climbing?
C Price I’m not a rock climber so I wouldn’t recommend using them for anything that I’m not familiar with.
Also, I can assume in rock climbing there is a greater safety factor in the gear that you will be using. If something fails while hammock hanging you only fall a few feet. Whereas, if it fails in rock climbing it could mean serious injury or worse.
So always use gear that is recommended and has been tested for its reliability and safety.
Good luck!
Triple Nickel Outdoors ok. Thanks
C Price you’re welcome! Be good!
Triple Nickel Outdoors try my best!
Both of those techniques are BAD nether is creating a proper Brummell lock pull the loop not the ends and you will see the lock comes apart. The proper way to create a loop with a Brummell lock you need to unbraid the second end and then rebrand it around the opposite side NOT the ends. Whe you pull the loop it is locked. Then bury the ends (and taper)