I searched long times for an explanaition like this. I bought all the equipment a long time ago an learned, when ever i could, on and on and adjusted my car alway a little bit better. It sounds really good after playing around with the Umik and REW but I was not finaly happy with the adjustment. And now I see this video and learned so much more which I can try the in next time. Really good discription! Thank you for that and I'm waiting patiently for the next videos. As we say in germany, Vielen Dank!
In my opinion, it is better that, you do the small circling on one ear, approximately half of the measuring time, then pull over the next ear. I think the way you do it, approximately 25-30% of the time you measure in front of your head, by moving the mic left and right multiple times during the measuring. You need averageing near your ears, not in front of your head. So my method is, do circling near my ear approximately 70-80 averages then move to the next ear and do the next 70-80 average. This way maybe you get rid of more needless reflections, cancellations, summations that are in front of your head, not hearing them, but they can drag your measurements averageing. Anyway, it's easy to test, do a couple measurement, this way and that way, those won't necessarily a big differences in measurement, but little problems could grow big :)
Looking forward to the measurement and eq of the door midbass. The majority of us don't have the luxury of IB kicks and need advice on dealing with the typical response of door mounted midbass.
I'm also patiently waiting for him to cover this. Literally nobody online makes kick panel enclosures for the vehicle that I drive, and I simply don't have the skills/energy/knowhow/patience/etc. to make them myself.
Look up a video on TH-cam called "using your subwoofer to improve midbass in a car audio system" by Erin's audio corner. I think that will get you on the right track.
Something to check on newer Windows based laptops: Go to Control Panel/ Sound/ Manage audio devices/ Recording/ Microphone (Umik-1)/ Properties and make sure "Enable audio enhancements" is not checked. If it's checked Windows will filter out sounds below 50Hz and above 15kHz (or somewhere around there).
I looked at old measurements I did, it looks like it cuts off below 100 and above 7k. I found this when I connected RCA's into my laptop and was checking my KeyLOC response with REW, the measurements were missing those frequencies. I tracked it down to windows thought that input was a new mic (instead of the UMIK) so it turned the enhancement on for it. I unchecked that and the measurements were flat again.
@@Mark_5150 Yes people, good advice here. Always put your laptop's audio settings in the most basic options it has. Disable any boost, noise canceling or any other enhancements there may be enabled.
Hello lovely teacher, class is in session, I love this series, a lot has been learned and a lot more to be learn, thanks once more for taking your time to teach us about this.
Those D4S Amps are crazy! Not quite the 20-150KHz of a Memphis, but the power output would likely make up for it. 13+KW on the 93 amp is just beyond my level of comprehension.
Thank you for this video! This is an excellent video for understanding how to measure with REW. I've watched many others and this the down and dirty simple explanations I needed along with your CAT-BUG guide. Thank you for all your content, you are a master in helping others with car audio.
Excellent video! I think you are the first person really explaining this for free, love it! Now something that no one can explain to me how to do, how about two seat tuning?! Do you do averages in the two seats or in the middle , or idk!? Love the work you're doing for the community!
The big drawback of Moving Microphone Method is the result is not quite reproducible each time you do a measurement. That makes the fine DSP adjustments pointless as the result might change slightly at the next measurement. You should ask MiniDSP for a video sponsorship to demonstrate their UMIK-X array since your channel is becoming a reference is car audio tuning tutorials, you are the perfect guy to test this product.
If your measurements are not consistent, you either perform them in very different ways or you simply don't make enough averages. ~100 averages are recommended.
Love these sorts of videos that you make. Very informative, I've learned a ton of stuff, thanks to you! Please keep this sort of content coming. Looking forward to the next video in the series. I would really like it if you would make a video like this about how to set up different types of rear fill and setting up a center channel
Would be nice to see a comparison of moving mic vs array. Also like you said, sitting in the seat will produce a different response than not sitting in the seat. Having a passenger is also going to change things.
I did not get good results moving the mic around the ears, I don't think averaging with the mic half the time near the outer wall ends up being accurate, of course speaker location will change this. But in general say your 6.5 in the opposite door is not being measured accurately with your mic measuring around your ear by the wall. So you can account for this biasing more time of the measurement in the closer ear but that creates another variable to have to remember each time. I got my best tune using the umik1 tripod fixed on the center console pointed upward and slightly forward, about 65 degrees? I was sitting in the driver seat also. I can't remember if I used my 45 degree file or 90 degree file from cross spectrum labs though. Speakers blended together much better with this method.
Not a bad instructional video but there are few problems. Your tip for measuring floor noise is a good one, most folks dont think about it. Anyone who has to tune from a running car can typically get away with it using this technique of keeping signal significantly higher than background noise. Some small criticisms. Rectangular windowing is not appropriate for measuring random noise, using hann or blackman (hann w/ 50% overlap is industry standard). This is explained in the REW documentation, but there is additional info online from sources like Siemens. Dwelling the microphone at each ear kinda defeats the purpose of spatial averaging, but I haven't tried evaluating if its beneficial to do so.
Not sure if you noticed, but I recommend to use periodic pink noise, not random. For periodic noise rectangular windowing is appropriate. While moving the microphone there is no dwelling, , there is just more emphasis over averages around your ears.
@@RAW-CAt Oh, you're right. As long as you use the REW generator from the same device as you're measuring. The example in the REW help documentation uses 87.5% overlap, but otherwise agrees with your recommendation. If anyone is not using the REW generator from the same device as you're recording from, such as playing back from an external player, then following my recommendation would be appropriate. This is due to differences in the system clock rates. Cheers!
RAW-CAt, thanks for the instructions! I was looking for your tutorial on MMM for Midbass and Sub. Is MMM necessary for MB & Sub or will stationary cover that? Thanks again :)
What can I do with an IMM-6? They say it's omnidirectional. Should I be able to get ok measurements holding it upwards even if it doesn't have a 90° cal. file? Again, thank you so much for the service you do for our community! 🤗
I notice with my laptop out my mic picks up a big peak around 7-8k compared to when i try to hide my laptop. Its very frustrating especially when im already dealing with a convertible hardtop and rollbar behind my seats. It becomes tough to tell what is causing what.
@@RAW-CAt thank you sir, I'll be playing more today. I spent many hours yesterday and made some good progress in most other areas. Tweeters just need more work
I have always used a sweep and the measure function to take my measurements. Can you analyze phase and dostortion using rta and pink noise? Also, I use 3.5 mm mic and I also use 3.5 mm to my head unit to play sweeps and pink noise. Do you see an issue with that method of transmission?
A sweep is accurate up to ~180Hz, above that the measurements vary even with a few mm difference of the mic. The high frequency measurements of the stationary mic are not reliable due to dense comb filtering. Special averaging addresses this issue. And yes, for phase measurements you need sweeps.
1:13. Exactly! You can only trust your ears if your ears have been trained.
I searched long times for an explanaition like this. I bought all the equipment a long time ago an learned, when ever i could, on and on and adjusted my car alway a little bit better. It sounds really good after playing around with the Umik and REW but I was not finaly happy with the adjustment. And now I see this video and learned so much more which I can try the in next time.
Really good discription! Thank you for that and I'm waiting patiently for the next videos.
As we say in germany, Vielen Dank!
Feel like I'm reading a comment by myself haha 😂 this situation applies to me as well.
In my opinion, it is better that, you do the small circling on one ear, approximately half of the measuring time, then pull over the next ear. I think the way you do it, approximately 25-30% of the time you measure in front of your head, by moving the mic left and right multiple times during the measuring. You need averageing near your ears, not in front of your head. So my method is, do circling near my ear approximately 70-80 averages then move to the next ear and do the next 70-80 average. This way maybe you get rid of more needless reflections, cancellations, summations that are in front of your head, not hearing them, but they can drag your measurements averageing. Anyway, it's easy to test, do a couple measurement, this way and that way, those won't necessarily a big differences in measurement, but little problems could grow big :)
Looking forward to the measurement and eq of the door midbass. The majority of us don't have the luxury of IB kicks and need advice on dealing with the typical response of door mounted midbass.
I'm also patiently waiting for him to cover this. Literally nobody online makes kick panel enclosures for the vehicle that I drive, and I simply don't have the skills/energy/knowhow/patience/etc. to make them myself.
Look up a video on TH-cam called "using your subwoofer to improve midbass in a car audio system" by Erin's audio corner. I think that will get you on the right track.
@claytonmckeon9872 I believe I have seen Erin's video. Thanks for the reminder though as it's been awhile and I will re-watch.
Something to check on newer Windows based laptops:
Go to Control Panel/ Sound/ Manage audio devices/ Recording/ Microphone (Umik-1)/ Properties and make sure "Enable audio enhancements" is not checked.
If it's checked Windows will filter out sounds below 50Hz and above 15kHz (or somewhere around there).
@@Mark_5150 this needs to be pinned 😃
I looked at old measurements I did, it looks like it cuts off below 100 and above 7k.
I found this when I connected RCA's into my laptop and was checking my KeyLOC response with REW, the measurements were missing those frequencies. I tracked it down to windows thought that input was a new mic (instead of the UMIK) so it turned the enhancement on for it. I unchecked that and the measurements were flat again.
@@Mark_5150 Yes people, good advice here. Always put your laptop's audio settings in the most basic options it has. Disable any boost, noise canceling or any other enhancements there may be enabled.
Díky!
Hello lovely teacher, class is in session, I love this series, a lot has been learned and a lot more to be learn, thanks once more for taking your time to teach us about this.
Your videos are so helpful man. Thank you
Those D4S Amps are crazy! Not quite the 20-150KHz of a Memphis, but the power output would likely make up for it. 13+KW on the 93 amp is just beyond my level of comprehension.
Thank you for this video! This is an excellent video for understanding how to measure with REW. I've watched many others and this the down and dirty simple explanations I needed along with your CAT-BUG guide. Thank you for all your content, you are a master in helping others with car audio.
Excellent video! I think you are the first person really explaining this for free, love it!
Now something that no one can explain to me how to do, how about two seat tuning?!
Do you do averages in the two seats or in the middle , or idk!?
Love the work you're doing for the community!
For a two seat tune you NEED a center channel and an upmixer. EQ is less important and TA is not needed.
So, THAT's the secret method! Thanks
The big drawback of Moving Microphone Method is the result is not quite reproducible each time you do a measurement. That makes the fine DSP adjustments pointless as the result might change slightly at the next measurement. You should ask MiniDSP for a video sponsorship to demonstrate their UMIK-X array since your channel is becoming a reference is car audio tuning tutorials, you are the perfect guy to test this product.
If your measurements are not consistent, you either perform them in very different ways or you simply don't make enough averages. ~100 averages are recommended.
I have a lot of questions but i will hold my horses till you drop your next videos :) Thankyou so much for making these videos.
Love these sorts of videos that you make. Very informative, I've learned a ton of stuff, thanks to you! Please keep this sort of content coming. Looking forward to the next video in the series. I would really like it if you would make a video like this about how to set up different types of rear fill and setting up a center channel
I learn english by you )) Thanks a lot
Quick and simple, I already measure that way but i'm taking the tip for the floor noise 😊👍
Good work Nerijus 😃
Would be nice to see a comparison of moving mic vs array. Also like you said, sitting in the seat will produce a different response than not sitting in the seat. Having a passenger is also going to change things.
Dude ! I have to go to work and we got a new video 😂
Watch it after work, the video is not going anywhere😉
As always, very useful! Huge thanks!
Thank you
Thanks so much doing for this! I really appreciate it
So do you do this before any time alignment and EQ correct?
This is just how to measure the frequency response. You need to measure it before and after to compare.
Thanks 😊 next video 😁
I did not get good results moving the mic around the ears, I don't think averaging with the mic half the time near the outer wall ends up being accurate, of course speaker location will change this. But in general say your 6.5 in the opposite door is not being measured accurately with your mic measuring around your ear by the wall. So you can account for this biasing more time of the measurement in the closer ear but that creates another variable to have to remember each time.
I got my best tune using the umik1 tripod fixed on the center console pointed upward and slightly forward, about 65 degrees? I was sitting in the driver seat also. I can't remember if I used my 45 degree file or 90 degree file from cross spectrum labs though. Speakers blended together much better with this method.
Not a bad instructional video but there are few problems. Your tip for measuring floor noise is a good one, most folks dont think about it. Anyone who has to tune from a running car can typically get away with it using this technique of keeping signal significantly higher than background noise. Some small criticisms. Rectangular windowing is not appropriate for measuring random noise, using hann or blackman (hann w/ 50% overlap is industry standard). This is explained in the REW documentation, but there is additional info online from sources like Siemens. Dwelling the microphone at each ear kinda defeats the purpose of spatial averaging, but I haven't tried evaluating if its beneficial to do so.
Not sure if you noticed, but I recommend to use periodic pink noise, not random. For periodic noise rectangular windowing is appropriate.
While moving the microphone there is no dwelling, , there is just more emphasis over averages around your ears.
@@RAW-CAt Oh, you're right. As long as you use the REW generator from the same device as you're measuring. The example in the REW help documentation uses 87.5% overlap, but otherwise agrees with your recommendation.
If anyone is not using the REW generator from the same device as you're recording from, such as playing back from an external player, then following my recommendation would be appropriate. This is due to differences in the system clock rates.
Cheers!
RAW-CAt, thanks for the instructions! I was looking for your tutorial on MMM for Midbass and Sub. Is MMM necessary for MB & Sub or will stationary cover that? Thanks again :)
MMM is good for high frequencies. Below 200Hz, you can use a stationary mic if you want.
@@RAW-CAt perfecto! I appreciate your generosity of knowledge and experience here... staying tuned :)
What can I do with an IMM-6? They say it's omnidirectional. Should I be able to get ok measurements holding it upwards even if it doesn't have a 90° cal. file?
Again, thank you so much for the service you do for our community! 🤗
It will be fine, the only thing is that you will need to adjust the very top end by ear.
@RAW-cat Do i need 90 calibration file for helix mtk 1 mic?
@@RAW-CAt thank you! Indeed in the end, I always fine tune the top end by ear. I like a bit more sparkle.
Thanks for more n more insights. How do we enter the data from rew to dsp.
Using a keyboard😉 On a serious note, some DSPs allow direct copy/paste of EQ from REW, but for most, that is a tedious manual work.
thanks but still plenty to learn from you. You are doing a great job.
I notice with my laptop out my mic picks up a big peak around 7-8k compared to when i try to hide my laptop. Its very frustrating especially when im already dealing with a convertible hardtop and rollbar behind my seats. It becomes tough to tell what is causing what.
Play a 7-8kHz sine tone andlisten to, what is happening. Could be a reflection or a resonance.
@@RAW-CAt thank you sir, I'll be playing more today. I spent many hours yesterday and made some good progress in most other areas. Tweeters just need more work
Are you getting soft reflection from your dash mids?
Yes, there is a reflection from the windshield.
I have always used a sweep and the measure function to take my measurements. Can you analyze phase and dostortion using rta and pink noise? Also, I use 3.5 mm mic and I also use 3.5 mm to my head unit to play sweeps and pink noise. Do you see an issue with that method of transmission?
A sweep is accurate up to ~180Hz, above that the measurements vary even with a few mm difference of the mic. The high frequency measurements of the stationary mic are not reliable due to dense comb filtering. Special averaging addresses this issue. And yes, for phase measurements you need sweeps.
@@RAW-CAt
@travisbarrow3408
*"SPATIAL Averaging addresses this issue". ^Auto-Correct strikes again. 😛
more accurate microphone umik only, or microphone + sound card like focusrite? or the difference is very small?
In car audio accuracy is not needed. USB mics are very beginner friendly and simple to use. Plug and play.