Really appreciate you showing us proper tuning. When I first started, I had to dig through the forums for hours just to find a simple answer. Often the answers were mudded up with disagreements and egos. You have created a one stop shop for us noobs. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Dude this video alone fixed my system! I’d been dissatisfied with my performance of mid bass and my installers tune fit soooo long. Turns out the system just wasn’t level matched properly if at all. Thank you so much! 👍🏻
I was going to ask a question on FB about whether the overall curve and sub should be +6dB compared to the individual target curves. You answered that question in the first 3 minutes. Great now I need to retune my system.
There's one thing no one talks about. How does all this relate to the lack of linearity of amplifier gain, different amplifiers, different speakers with different sensitivity. Isn't it the case that this correction will make sense and be effective only for the specific gain at which the measurements were made? The gain curve for a 200W and 1000W sub amplifier will be completely different. The same applies to the linearity of decibel increase for the subwoofer and tweeter... 🤔
I guess it might depend on the quality of gear you are using. However I never had issues with that. I always use a mish mash of 3-4 amplifiers with my system, and didn't notice any non linearities.
I always figured everyone just measured all left channels playing, then adjusted each output, then remeasured to confirm. Obviously you will then have the issue of the mid-tweet summation around the x-over only being 3db in and LR4 crossover, but you just ignore that little dip (unless your mid and tweet are right beside each other). I like your method better because you don't run into that problem.
Great video Nerijus 🙏 I wonder why you did not try to measure the whole system playing to verify it's matching the house curve. For me it's tricky to assume midrange and treble will sum to +6db, I've always measured the pairs to sum only to +3db with correlated pink periodic noise. The only drivers pairs that measure +6db (when no phase issue) are the midbasses up to the schroeder frequency (around 300hz it starts the maximum sum peaks only at +3db again). What are your thoughts on this and did you experience the same measurements ? Your approach is interesting for me because I feel my system is louder in the midrange/treble and I have to pull down quite a lot on the top-end to have that spectral balance.. Maybe that +6db summation doesn't show on the top-end with a microphone but we definitely hear it 🤷♂️
Yes, different frequencies will not sum the same and at the very top end you will not have +6dB. These video series are aimed at beginners and I do. Not want to overcomplicate things. This is more to demonstrate the technique and mechanics of the process.
Thank you for these helpful video’s! Question, it seems like you pulled a lot of energy out of the midbass. I’m assuming there was a lot of headroom? I had done what I thought was a great tune only to find I had pulled out way too much energy and the tune sounded “thin”. Can you talk a little bit about that? Cheers!!
Whatever "thin" is, it's all in your house curve. If you are lacking something, try a different house curve. Maybe one with extra midbass? A lot of people prefer that, but to me too much midbass sounds muddy.
Correct me if I’m wrong but when you pull the subwoofer up like that, doesn’t it change the actual crossover point with the midbass therefore changing the phase relationship between the two? I think Andy at audio frog suggests setting the subwoofer a half octave lower than the mid bass and it will correct this problem when you pull the subwoofer back up to match the mid bass summed level.
@@RAW-CAt Thanks for the correction. I understand it better now. But now I have to try to get +6db more out of my sub because I’ve always left the sub level at the individual sub target level. And I’m just purely guessing here, that my sub and my summed midbasses are probably around 45 degrees out of phase in this scenario.
No. Electrically it's the same thing, the difference is the noise. Turning the gains down you will reduce the noise and with stronger signal from the DSP you will have higher SNR.
@RAW-CAt Couple of questions. Pls bare with me. 1. I have a 6 channel amp, planned to power 3 mid ranges and 3 tweets for a 2 seat tune but the amp has only 3 gain controls, is it ok? 2. At what level we need to set our gains before we start the tune. 3. what is volume we need to set before we start the tune.
@RAW-CAt Thank you very much, You mean my center channel tweeter and midrange can have same gain knob, i need to play with gain settings inside the dsp correct?
Sure you can. You are doing it with the DSP always. RTA is just a tool that visually helps you to achieve the results faster. You can do level matching by ear if you wish to.
Math is fun, but once levels are matched between a speaker pair, nevertheless tweeters, mids or mid-woofers I just take another combined measurement of the pair and then make levels matching with other pairs. I would not rely on +3 or +6 theoretical level increase when 2 speakers play, but make effective/actual graph of both
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Really appreciate you showing us proper tuning. When I first started, I had to dig through the forums for hours just to find a simple answer. Often the answers were mudded up with disagreements and egos. You have created a one stop shop for us noobs. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I'm in the process of tuning my system with REW and i appreciate these videos. Got it sounding pretty good right now thanks to you.
Best channel on TH-cam. Can I get an Amen?
Dude this video alone fixed my system! I’d been dissatisfied with my performance of mid bass and my installers tune fit soooo long. Turns out the system just wasn’t level matched properly if at all. Thank you so much! 👍🏻
I normally just use the lowest level driver and cut all the other driver to that level just to save time
I was going to ask a question on FB about whether the overall curve and sub should be +6dB compared to the individual target curves. You answered that question in the first 3 minutes. Great now I need to retune my system.
Don't retune, just put your sub up a bit😉
@@RAW-CAt 👍
Yes sir, let's go, class is in session, love your work man! 🙌🏾
There's one thing no one talks about.
How does all this relate to the lack of linearity of amplifier gain, different amplifiers, different speakers with different sensitivity.
Isn't it the case that this correction will make sense and be effective only for the specific gain at which the measurements were made?
The gain curve for a 200W and 1000W sub amplifier will be completely different.
The same applies to the linearity of decibel increase for the subwoofer and tweeter... 🤔
I guess it might depend on the quality of gear you are using. However I never had issues with that. I always use a mish mash of 3-4 amplifiers with my system, and didn't notice any non linearities.
I always figured everyone just measured all left channels playing, then adjusted each output, then remeasured to confirm. Obviously you will then have the issue of the mid-tweet summation around the x-over only being 3db in and LR4 crossover, but you just ignore that little dip (unless your mid and tweet are right beside each other). I like your method better because you don't run into that problem.
Díky!
Great video Nerijus 🙏
I wonder why you did not try to measure the whole system playing to verify it's matching the house curve.
For me it's tricky to assume midrange and treble will sum to +6db, I've always measured the pairs to sum only to +3db with correlated pink periodic noise.
The only drivers pairs that measure +6db (when no phase issue) are the midbasses up to the schroeder frequency (around 300hz it starts the maximum sum peaks only at +3db again).
What are your thoughts on this and did you experience the same measurements ?
Your approach is interesting for me because I feel my system is louder in the midrange/treble and I have to pull down quite a lot on the top-end to have that spectral balance.. Maybe that +6db summation doesn't show on the top-end with a microphone but we definitely hear it 🤷♂️
Yes, different frequencies will not sum the same and at the very top end you will not have +6dB. These video series are aimed at beginners and I do. Not want to overcomplicate things. This is more to demonstrate the technique and mechanics of the process.
@@RAW-CAt ok I understand, no problems
Thank you for these helpful video’s! Question, it seems like you pulled a lot of energy out of the midbass. I’m assuming there was a lot of headroom? I had done what I thought was a great tune only to find I had pulled out way too much energy and the tune sounded “thin”. Can you talk a little bit about that? Cheers!!
Whatever "thin" is, it's all in your house curve. If you are lacking something, try a different house curve. Maybe one with extra midbass? A lot of people prefer that, but to me too much midbass sounds muddy.
Correct me if I’m wrong but when you pull the subwoofer up like that, doesn’t it change the actual crossover point with the midbass therefore changing the phase relationship between the two? I think Andy at audio frog suggests setting the subwoofer a half octave lower than the mid bass and it will correct this problem when you pull the subwoofer back up to match the mid bass summed level.
When both midbass play together and sum +6dB, the crossover point does not change.
@@RAW-CAt Thanks for the correction. I understand it better now. But now I have to try to get +6db more out of my sub because I’ve always left the sub level at the individual sub target level. And I’m just purely guessing here, that my sub and my summed midbasses are probably around 45 degrees out of phase in this scenario.
5:48 don't pulling the gains all the down on the amp kill the dynamic range ? Is it better to pull down the output gain in the DSP ?
No. Electrically it's the same thing, the difference is the noise. Turning the gains down you will reduce the noise and with stronger signal from the DSP you will have higher SNR.
@@RAW-CAt oh I see, thanks for the detailed answer 😊
@RAW-CAt
Couple of questions. Pls bare with me.
1. I have a 6 channel amp, planned to power 3 mid ranges and 3 tweets for a 2 seat tune but the amp has only 3 gain controls, is it ok?
2. At what level we need to set our gains before we start the tune.
3. what is volume we need to set before we start the tune.
1. Yes, that is ok
2. Gains all the way down.
3. Watch the moving mic method video. Measurement should be ~30dB above noise.
@RAW-CAt
Thank you very much,
You mean my center channel tweeter and midrange can have same gain knob, i need to play with gain settings inside the dsp correct?
Can level matching be performed just with Helix?
Sure you can. You are doing it with the DSP always. RTA is just a tool that visually helps you to achieve the results faster. You can do level matching by ear if you wish to.
Thank you, it seems my right side is a little too high.
@@hot99pas yes, that can happen. RTA is not perfect, final adjustments have do be done by ear.
I bought a Mosconi 8/10 dsp/amplifier, I hope it sounds as good as the Helix.
Next time measuring phase and perfecting phase interaction at crossover points
Good guess! Yes, phase is next👍
@RAW-CAt that's the one peice I need to learn. Need to buy an XLR mic and audio interface first though
Hi, maybe I`m wrong... but two drivers together give +3dB, not +6dB ;) Nevertheless, as always great tutorial, Cheers!
Two drivers on same power will give you +3dB. Using active channels we are doubling the power as well, hence another +3dB and +6dB in total
On MB i get +6dB, on Mids + Tweets +3dB is more realistic.
@@soren5884 yes,that is true 👍
Math is fun, but once levels are matched between a speaker pair, nevertheless tweeters, mids or mid-woofers I just take another combined measurement of the pair and then make levels matching with other pairs. I would not rely on +3 or +6 theoretical level increase when 2 speakers play, but make effective/actual graph of both