My brain isn't set up for all this tech talk but I really enjoy reading the comments where people show their appreciation of the work you do for us. I actually met Nerijus in Bristol at a pssound meeting and he is just as easy going as he is in his videos. Keep up the good work Sir.
Another outstanding basic presentation very eloquently delivered! The 2 way in my truck is using HD-2 Wideband and CL-69SUB/CF.2 from CDT Audio Refurbished (basically new) and covers almost exactly as you described.
I see a ton of builds where people make a pillars that are aimed across the dash instead of at the listening position. I always scratch my head and wonder why they didn't take a few minutes to just angle those pods.
Thank you very much for your time and effort to share you knowledge from Car Audio via youtube to us! I like your way to choose at first the cheap solution/material to solve problems and improve the sound quality. Do you know how big the influence of the original plastic grill from the door panel is on the TMT speakers?
One way to show the quality difference between midbass installs is to do an impedance measurement. It will show all the resonances and if it is actually IB or if it is loading the cone.
Location placement will often allow cheap drivers to out perform the most expensive drivers in factory location. If you are going to spend money, put it towards install. There are many affordable drivers that will crush expensive drivers when installed in a 3way with good location.
I love widebands and have used the CDT Unity 8 mounted in PVC end caps located at the mirrors. My only complaint with widebands is they can require a lot of EQ bands to tune properly. My current DSP/amp only has 10 bands per channel. My next DSP/amp will have 32 bands per channel.
Same with my Unity 8s. I ended up adding a tweeter in the sails (since my Unity 8s simply didn’t sound right by themselves) and they definitely sounded better after adding a Expert air8 dsp (and the tweeters)
That dip at 16k is an issue with a lot of tweeters. You see the same issue in home hifi as well. Something to do with domes in this range. Some designs just handle it better than others.
I’m learning a lot from these videos, so thank you! My factory midrange locations are in the corners of the dash, and I was slightly confused we the left driver was reading 2dB higher than the closer right driver (I’m in the UK). Your measurements show the same. Must be something to do with the acoustical boost you are discussing, though it still seems counterintuitive to me. I spent a lot of time learning and tuning my 3 way to Half-Whiteledge 6 months ago. Looking forward to using this new knowledge to aim for a flatter tune above 250Hz. Would love to get your views on different House Curves, and good places to start. I’ve read the beginners that aim for bass heavier curves initially find they want to go flatter as time passes. I can attest to that!
Another great video Nerijus. I know you don’t want to get too technical in this series of videos, but it may be worth mentioning the effects of beaming as it pertains to crossover frequency selection and driver placement/aiming, especially with wideband speakers. It’s been my experience that playing a speaker up into the beaming frequencies can really smear the center image, especially when not ideally on axis.
Would there be any improvement from going to 4 way? I want to get AMT's for tweeters, so mids need to play higher. Then smaller midbasses in factory door location and larger midbasses in kicks? Was thinking of 10" kicks, 5" doors, 2.5" mids and AMT's. Ju
Love you content. This is very good due to me working on my sq setup on a budget. I am using some non conventional sq equipment and seeing how it does.
Thank you! Could you please explain to a layperson how much audible range/definition we lose by not having the midrange/tweeters mounted up on the dash/pillars? I am new to this hobby and am trying to decide if mounting the speakers on the dash/A-pillar is worth the hassle (I am not competing).Thanks.
The only difference is the stage height. With door mids and tweets your stage will be lower compared to a pillars or dash. If tuned correctly you can have the same spectral balance from both locations.
@RAW-CAT Thank you! When I have installed all the gear, I would like to have a professional tuning done on it. How can I get in contact with you for tuning services?
Hello Nejerius i was wondering if unknowingly trying to boost dips or nulls make the music sound harsh. I know im going to eq again plus I got confused with LR2 and LR4 thanks for teaching
Yes because when there’s a dip the speaker is still outputting that frequency at full volume even though it doesn’t measure that way at the listening position. If you boost it even 3db then there’s double the amount of energy being dumped into the environment. And I think reflections and comb filters always sound harsh compared to direct sound. Plus driving the speaker harder means more distortion, or even worse, clipping or overpowering it. It’s a triple whammy of bad.
Great video raw cat, how after eq it seems like my music lost the sparkling sound or life in the vocals and everything sounds heavy I guess I can say. Is it the 200hz to 1k range that is messing with the sound quality.
Well, it depends on the final house curve that you aimed for. If your house curve rolls off at the top end, that won't sound nice. If you have a lot of energy below 200Hz, that will sound heavy.
@RAW-CAt thanks sir if it wasn't for you I would not have a heading to get started or knowledge of why. I hope you continue to get the recognition from the car audio fans
A 100mm mid range firring on to widescreen. Like your dash mid-range. VS same mid range fiited in pods next to tweeters and firring on axis. How much does the response differs? Details, imaging difference
yeah im curious about the same thing, because I got tweeters in the dash firing at the windshield atm, but its totally doable to just 3dprint a pod and fit both a 87mm midrange and a tweeter into it
I got a midrange 30degree off axis in the pillars right now. The response looks rough from 300-1500 after that it is linear. It has a lot of natural boost in this area which is not a problem but needs some eq work. Otherwise it sounds pretty honky and muffled. The midrange is 3 inch from Brax and plays down from 150 till 5k then it slightly rolls off like a 12db slope
@@dsk-xx I know I’ve just played pink noise on them to see where they come alive. It is really nice for a crossover at 300hz because it blends in so well.
This is a great video to give an insight on where to place speakers! Learned a lot from this! One question, how do door tweeters compare? I know theyll be off axis so some of the issues in the high end will be present, but how does it compare to in the sills/sails or pillars?
@@RAW-CAt I have a Corsa D, and the stock tweeter location is just under the window in the doors by the handle. I think I will keep that location for tweeters. I would like to do mid bass in kicks but don't want to rip up the car. What would you suggest.
Hi Mr Nerijus hope you are doing good, just in time, just a day or two ago I commented on your last video about a coaxial speaker as 3 way, Copying the comment back here just incase you missed it. Hi Mr Nerijus, hope you are doing good, I have been planning to install a TS A879 pioneer, a 3.5 inch two way coaxial with 1 inch tweeter in the A pillar and I am currently running a infinity primus two way component with the tweeter just located on top of the dash aimed towards the roof liner infront of the rear view mirror, in your opinion do you think replacing the tweeters with this coaxial 3.5inch will do wonders? Also will the tuning of 3.5 inch coaxials in A pillar with midbass in the door via DSP be comparable to a proper 3 way components? My current set up, Sennuopu Db X10, Infinity 6.5inch primus components two way and infinity sealed 12inch subwoofer at trunk with pioneer amplifier, all running active. The idea behind this coaxial is to get a 4 channel amplifier and run active both the infinity midbass and pioneer 3.5inch coaxial.
The biggest problem with coax drivers is that most of them have a very bad tweeter. Location in A pillar might be better, but in your case it will come down. To which tweeter is better.
Good stuff. Everyone in the car audio always talking about installing it on the kick but not everyone have the tool, skills and willingness to take the hit on car depreciation to install it on the kick so it's 🤷♀🤷♂🤷. And not every car have enough space for a midbass there either.
I drive a 2015 Ford E-150 cargo van. The most spacious type of vehicle you could imagine. Simply cannot fit a midbass in the kick panel on drivers side unless you remove the parking brake assembly. I had to put the midbasses under the front seats for lack of any other reasonable options. Midbasses in the door sounded horrible and were completely impossible despite my efforts to sound deaden, brace and seal the doors. Wasted a ton of money trying to get the doors to work as a midbass location. Sigh
@@logancoykendall7985 No way i'm doing the same thing. Building box right now to put under seats. It doesn't play above 200hz though and my midrange can only come down to 250-300hz. either i'll just live with missing these 200-300 ranges or add a 4 or 5 inches to my stock door and play 150-500hz and have my midrange takes after 500. Do you have 4" for midrange? What is your crossover point from midbass to midrange?
@asdfasdfasdfae if those are your only options i would say that you definitely need to add another driver to compensate for the missing frequencies. I have a 3 inch midrange but it's fine down to 300 hz. My crossover points are 65/350/4000.
My brain isn't set up for all this tech talk but I really enjoy reading the comments where people show their appreciation of the work you do for us. I actually met Nerijus in Bristol at a pssound meeting and he is just as easy going as he is in his videos. Keep up the good work Sir.
Another outstanding basic presentation very eloquently delivered!
The 2 way in my truck is using HD-2 Wideband and CL-69SUB/CF.2 from CDT Audio Refurbished (basically new) and covers almost exactly as you described.
I see a ton of builds where people make a pillars that are aimed across the dash instead of at the listening position. I always scratch my head and wonder why they didn't take a few minutes to just angle those pods.
Thank you very much for your time and effort to share you knowledge from Car Audio via youtube to us! I like your way to choose at first the cheap solution/material to solve problems and improve the sound quality. Do you know how big the influence of the original plastic grill from the door panel is on the TMT speakers?
One way to show the quality difference between midbass installs is to do an impedance measurement. It will show all the resonances and if it is actually IB or if it is loading the cone.
Yes, It will, however it will not show anything from the acoustical point of view. Or what we might be able to hear.
Another great video, with great content, I'll really appreciate this series, keep up the great work sir.
Every time I look at a rew graph i think to myself i wonder what raw cat would say about this rough looking response lol
😂😂😂 me too. I can hear his accent in my head when evaluating.
same lmao
Location placement will often allow cheap drivers to out perform the most expensive drivers in factory location.
If you are going to spend money, put it towards install. There are many affordable drivers that will crush expensive drivers when installed in a 3way with good location.
Thanks for all you do us asspiring audio specialist
I love widebands and have used the CDT Unity 8 mounted in PVC end caps located at the mirrors. My only complaint with widebands is they can require a lot of EQ bands to tune properly. My current DSP/amp only has 10 bands per channel. My next DSP/amp will have 32 bands per channel.
Same with my Unity 8s. I ended up adding a tweeter in the sails (since my Unity 8s simply didn’t sound right by themselves) and they definitely sounded better after adding a Expert air8 dsp (and the tweeters)
That dip at 16k is an issue with a lot of tweeters. You see the same issue in home hifi as well. Something to do with domes in this range. Some designs just handle it better than others.
I need sometime to digest the information
I’m learning a lot from these videos, so thank you! My factory midrange locations are in the corners of the dash, and I was slightly confused we the left driver was reading 2dB higher than the closer right driver (I’m in the UK). Your measurements show the same. Must be something to do with the acoustical boost you are discussing, though it still seems counterintuitive to me.
I spent a lot of time learning and tuning my 3 way to Half-Whiteledge 6 months ago. Looking forward to using this new knowledge to aim for a flatter tune above 250Hz. Would love to get your views on different House Curves, and good places to start. I’ve read the beginners that aim for bass heavier curves initially find they want to go flatter as time passes. I can attest to that!
Another great video Nerijus. I know you don’t want to get too technical in this series of videos, but it may be worth mentioning the effects of beaming as it pertains to crossover frequency selection and driver placement/aiming, especially with wideband speakers. It’s been my experience that playing a speaker up into the beaming frequencies can really smear the center image, especially when not ideally on axis.
Would there be any improvement from going to 4 way? I want to get AMT's for tweeters, so mids need to play higher. Then smaller midbasses in factory door location and larger midbasses in kicks?
Was thinking of 10" kicks, 5" doors, 2.5" mids and AMT's. Ju
Sure, that would work great👍
Love you content. This is very good due to me working on my sq setup on a budget. I am using some non conventional sq equipment and seeing how it does.
Thank you! Could you please explain to a layperson how much audible range/definition we lose by not having the midrange/tweeters mounted up on the dash/pillars? I am new to this hobby and am trying to decide if mounting the speakers on the dash/A-pillar is worth the hassle (I am not competing).Thanks.
The only difference is the stage height. With door mids and tweets your stage will be lower compared to a pillars or dash. If tuned correctly you can have the same spectral balance from both locations.
@RAW-CAT Thank you! When I have installed all the gear, I would like to have a professional tuning done on it. How can I get in contact with you for tuning services?
@@stejeranis rawcaraudiotuning@gmail.com
Hello Nejerius i was wondering if unknowingly trying to boost dips or nulls make the music sound harsh. I know im going to eq again plus I got confused with LR2 and LR4 thanks for teaching
Yes, boosts may make sound unpleasant. Not always, but can happen.
Yes because when there’s a dip the speaker is still outputting that frequency at full volume even though it doesn’t measure that way at the listening position. If you boost it even 3db then there’s double the amount of energy being dumped into the environment. And I think reflections and comb filters always sound harsh compared to direct sound. Plus driving the speaker harder means more distortion, or even worse, clipping or overpowering it. It’s a triple whammy of bad.
hey, I have an important question.. how about having a midrange in the dash on axis? like, raised in a 3d printed pod
Go for it. As long as it wont obstruct the view.
Great video raw cat, how after eq it seems like my music lost the sparkling sound or life in the vocals and everything sounds heavy I guess I can say. Is it the 200hz to 1k range that is messing with the sound quality.
Well, it depends on the final house curve that you aimed for. If your house curve rolls off at the top end, that won't sound nice. If you have a lot of energy below 200Hz, that will sound heavy.
@RAW-CAt thanks sir if it wasn't for you I would not have a heading to get started or knowledge of why. I hope you continue to get the recognition from the car audio fans
I have been thinking doing ib midbass underseat, as I dont have much space in kicks for midbass.
Then you will need a big midrange to play low.
A 100mm mid range firring on to widescreen. Like your dash mid-range. VS same mid range fiited in pods next to tweeters and firring on axis.
How much does the response differs? Details, imaging difference
yeah im curious about the same thing, because I got tweeters in the dash firing at the windshield atm, but its totally doable to just 3dprint a pod and fit both a 87mm midrange and a tweeter into it
I got a midrange 30degree off axis in the pillars right now. The response looks rough from 300-1500 after that it is linear. It has a lot of natural boost in this area which is not a problem but needs some eq work. Otherwise it sounds pretty honky and muffled. The midrange is 3 inch from Brax and plays down from 150 till 5k then it slightly rolls off like a 12db slope
@@Niclas0299 3 inches down to 150hz !! Thats too low .
Atlast should be 250hz / 24 db
@@dsk-xx I know I’ve just played pink noise on them to see where they come alive. It is really nice for a crossover at 300hz because it blends in so well.
This is a great video to give an insight on where to place speakers! Learned a lot from this! One question, how do door tweeters compare? I know theyll be off axis so some of the issues in the high end will be present, but how does it compare to in the sills/sails or pillars?
Tweeters in the doors can sound really good. Just not too low.
@@RAW-CAt I have a Corsa D, and the stock tweeter location is just under the window in the doors by the handle. I think I will keep that location for tweeters. I would like to do mid bass in kicks but don't want to rip up the car. What would you suggest.
@@Gershy13 see how much space you have under the seats.
@@RAW-CAt I don't think there is much space under the seats. It's a small car.
@@Gershy13 Then the only other option would be door enclosures.
Hi Mr Nerijus hope you are doing good, just in time, just a day or two ago I commented on your last video about a coaxial speaker as 3 way,
Copying the comment back here just incase you missed it.
Hi Mr Nerijus, hope you are doing good, I have been planning to install a TS A879 pioneer, a 3.5 inch two way coaxial with 1 inch tweeter in the A pillar and I am currently running a infinity primus two way component with the tweeter just located on top of the dash aimed towards the roof liner infront of the rear view mirror, in your opinion do you think replacing the tweeters with this coaxial 3.5inch will do wonders? Also will the tuning of 3.5 inch coaxials in A pillar with midbass in the door via DSP be comparable to a proper 3 way components?
My current set up, Sennuopu Db X10, Infinity 6.5inch primus components two way and infinity sealed 12inch subwoofer at trunk with pioneer amplifier, all running active.
The idea behind this coaxial is to get a 4 channel amplifier and run active both the infinity midbass and pioneer 3.5inch coaxial.
The biggest problem with coax drivers is that most of them have a very bad tweeter. Location in A pillar might be better, but in your case it will come down. To which tweeter is better.
@@RAW-CAt Thank you very much Mr Nerijus, appreciate the advice, have a great day and keep on teaching us, my best wishes.
Thanks
Good stuff. Everyone in the car audio always talking about installing it on the kick but not everyone have the tool, skills and willingness to take the hit on car depreciation to install it on the kick so it's 🤷♀🤷♂🤷. And not every car have enough space for a midbass there either.
That is very true. Only the ones that are willing to go the extra mile and want only the best of the best will do that.
I drive a 2015 Ford E-150 cargo van. The most spacious type of vehicle you could imagine. Simply cannot fit a midbass in the kick panel on drivers side unless you remove the parking brake assembly. I had to put the midbasses under the front seats for lack of any other reasonable options. Midbasses in the door sounded horrible and were completely impossible despite my efforts to sound deaden, brace and seal the doors. Wasted a ton of money trying to get the doors to work as a midbass location. Sigh
@@logancoykendall7985is it possible to cut the firewall?
@@logancoykendall7985 No way i'm doing the same thing. Building box right now to put under seats. It doesn't play above 200hz though and my midrange can only come down to 250-300hz. either i'll just live with missing these 200-300 ranges or add a 4 or 5 inches to my stock door and play 150-500hz and have my midrange takes after 500.
Do you have 4" for midrange? What is your crossover point from midbass to midrange?
@asdfasdfasdfae if those are your only options i would say that you definitely need to add another driver to compensate for the missing frequencies.
I have a 3 inch midrange but it's fine down to 300 hz.
My crossover points are 65/350/4000.
Don't feel bad I don't even understand half of what said in my house. I'm American and my wife is Morrocan and speaks 4 languages. 😂😂😂😂
Sills or sails🤷
Even sails is “incorrect”. Sail panels is also used to reference the c-pillars, according to auto body enthusiasts.