I think Alice can eat, but if you look at her past scenes, she barely eats anything, which was a clue. She is a deviant. It may have happened when Kara was damaged by Todd before the story starts, but there are clues that point to her being deviant.
Historically speaking i'm not sure there has been any case of oppression being surmounted with dialogue, that's because to have dialogue both parties must be on either equal footing or at least have enough power to pose as a real threat. Because, i mean, if you are the oppressor, and at any time you have the power to wipe out the other side why would you even listen to demands? These are not good people. At some point every fight for equal rights must go through a phase of confrontation so that the dominant side has something to lose, because obviously if they accept they lose the workforce keeping society working so why would they bother if the other option is just keep things as they are with no repercussion? In this sense a dirty bomb is genius for androids to use, a dirty bomb would rain radiation all over the city, making it become chernobil essentially, which is completely fine for robots but a hellscape for humans. "If you don't accept our demands we gonna create radioactive deserts in major cities" Now, that's something that is enough to take both sides to the bargaining table regardless if they would or not actually blow up the truck, just the risk is enough.
I think you're right lol I guess dialogue MIGHT work in a situation where you've been able to convince the general population that you aren't so different from them and gain their empathy and support but seeing how they had no hesitation to just exterminate the androids...... I feel like a more violent conflict would be kind of inevitable realistically.... Also true about using the threat of the bomb, and if I knew for sure it would give me the option to use it simply as leverage, I might have gone for it! but I worried that it was like "well now you have no choice but to use it" lol something to explore in a future playthrough!
Alice being human wouldn't have required Kara to be deviant. She would just be priotizing "protect Alice" over other commands. Two Androids being able to form a mother-daughter bond has far more implications about the programming
I think I meant more that unless she was deviant, there'd be no reason for Kara to kinda be in denial about the whole thing. I agree that it can still be interesting, but I personally would be more interested in relationships between human and android, because then you get to explore the differences and similarities between them
Great playthrough bud. Firstly, don't worry about your playthrough being "safe" or "conventional" with some choices and decisions (such as Connor's deviancy). This is your playthrough, and you pick these choices because that's what your gut tells you. That's why people tune in for your playthroughs, to see you react to the game shaped by how you'd play it if you were off camera. Having you pick choices against your instincts to please someone else would mean you'd not be as invested, wouldn't enjoy it as much, and likely less happy with the outcome. On to the episode: as someone else pointed out, Todd had a wife and daughter - and they left together due to his behaviour/drug use. Alice is deviant. Her behaviour at the beginning of the game confirms this. Her shyness, timidness and genuine fear of Todd, is not part of Android programming. It's likely the abuse she suffered - or possibly witnessing the abuse Kara suffered could've been her catalyst to deviancy. Alice didn't want to tell Kara because she was worried Alice wouldn't feel the same protection/love for her if she knew she was an android. There's a conversation you missed at Rose's house that confirms this: if you let Alice stay in the room as the female android shuts down, she will walk over to the male android and there's a look between them with his LED turning yellow then orange. It's the biggest hint that Alice is an android as we've seen androids connect telepathically before (such as Marcus paying for paints etc). Following this, you can have a conversation with Alice (before the policeman arrives), with Kara asking something along the lines of "do you know what happened in there?". Alice replied something really vague, and as Kara, you can press her by saying you feel she's hiding something. Alice will reply something like "if I tell you, you want love me the same", to which Kara reassured her. Kara looks as though she knows, but is choosing ignorance rather than the truth. You can then talk to Luther again who will once again try to tell you about Alice, before the policeman interrupts by ringing the door bell. Personally, I feel all of this shouldn't be optional scenes that can be missed - as it explains why Alice never reveals to Kara that she's an android, and plays along with being a real little girl. You are right about Zlatko, he refers to Alice only as "it" or the "little one". He was well aware that she was an android. You may also recall that none of the police reports (I think you missed Kara's police report), and news reports mention Kara having kidnapped a girl or even being with a girl. If Alice was a real girl, she'd be all over the reports and a much bigger manhunt with her face everywhere. In terms of Alice's LED, re-read the article about the child androids (I think you may have unlocked it). It explains they come with removable LEDs, and the ability to modify their needs and desires at will (like make them simulate hunger or tiredness if you wish). The truck bomb is a mini nuke, even though the power of it isn't really implied, it's capable of destroying downtown Detroit. Definitely not for your playthrough this time, that's for the violent revolutionist playthrough 😆 In terms of North, it's quite easy to avoid the lover path with her, even if you agree to what she wants with the choices. The lover path is more to do with how you converse with her, not so much your Jericho choices. It shows she's a real one who stands and supports the man she loves, despite him holding different beliefs and goals. The jericho choices you made, did go against her preference, but your conversations choices with her were always the positive ones that encouraged her to open up to you and be vulnerable. That's why you got the lover path. Especially the scene when you got her to open up about her past. When you don't get her to open up, she'll stay distant, even if you go for the mage violent choices. Regarding Connor's flow chart for Crossroads, I'll be vague to not spoil your future alternative playthroughs: remember, Marcus could've died before this chapter - meaning Connor's chapter would be very different. Becoming deviant or not, is one of the only moments that remains across all alternative versions of Connor's crossroads chapter. Anyway, looking forward to the next and final episode (of the first playthrough), and any future episodes afterwards exploring the obscene amount of alternative scenes and extras 👍🏻
Thank you Chris! It does make sense that she's a deviant considering all we see from her, but (and I think I discuss this more in the next episode) what is the programming of a child android even supposed to be? it's not like a specific job of cleaning a house or being a receptionist, so what are they even programmed to do pre-deviancy? With what you told me, I can understand better now why Alice chose not to just tell Kara outright that she was an android, that part confused me a bit. She thought Kara wouldn't care for her as much if she knew. Makes sense! It's true though that a lot of the foreshadowing maybe shouldn't have been so optional. I do remember pointing out how weird it was that in the news and police reports, there was no mention of Alice, I was thinking "wouldn't you want to tell everyone that your android also kidnapped your child??" I just figured maybe he was ashamed to admit it or something? but that makes sense now too! I think I missed the magazine about child androids, I'll have to double check You also make a lot of sense about North lol I figured just going against what she said was enough to avoid the lover route, but I did try to be nice to her when we talked. But then again, wouldn't most everyone? lol it's only natural to try to be kind to others, I still feel like the lovers route should be much harder to unlock, requiring you to intentionally pursue it. But it's not a big deal. I'm looking forward to exploring some alternate routes after finishing the main story once! 😄
@@LukaelPlays oh so many women out there fall in love with the first person who are nicer to them than their abusive parents, you know... You are polite with them and that's it, they fall for you and can't help themselves even if they understand the behavior isn't okay. Extremely human thing, indicator of trauma and huge desire to be understood and loved.
Yes. Also Alice didn’t had the need to sleep often. And she didn’t eat anything in this days, how Cara even mentioned herself. There come some things together if you think about. Also Alice „dad“ never mentioned she as her daughter, only as his little girl.
i feel making alice an android was kinda a cheesy move.. i preferred she be a human it felt better to show the bond between a human and an android, idk.. i love the story but this part.. it kinda annoys me
@Milad.Sookhakian I generally agree except that it does add some complexity to the Todd situation. He is out of work and struggling and yet still chose to spend thousands to purchase Alice plus thousands more to have Kara to look after her (and the house) and then continuing to pay more after he damages either. He is still an ass but there seems to be a lot of internal pain too.
I think that's kinda the point. If the player truly belives that androids and humans are equal, then Alice being an android shouldn't matter. I myself didn't think of it negatively when I played, only later I found out lots of people didn't like this twist. Just my opinion tho
@@random_user98Fully agree. I think that's the entire point for the twist. To show the player - particularly those on the fence as to whether the androids truly are alive or not - that you can care for Alice the same amount regardless of whether she's human or android. It shouldn't matter. As the player, you should still care for her in the same way after the reveal, unless you don't believe they are really alive (or are a lesser species), which would make that player no better than the "villains" of the game.
Phew, for me these chapters can easily go sideways, losing characters or bad choices, but looks like things went well. Don’t worry about taking the ‘obvious’ path, speaking for myself I’m watching a first time play of the game specifically to experience most of the stuff I did myself. Usually most people then replay to explore other paths. Speaking of which while I’d love to see some bonus episodes, I’m not entirely sure you can experience the more interesting paths without replaying much of the game in order to unlock those paths. So sure you can take some alternative choices but to get the full experience a replay is better. Of course doesn’t have to be straight away, be just as happy to see a new play through in a few months
59:02 I don't think you'd have to have a real war, depending on how they function the quickest method would probably be a virus. How can the Humans at this point distinguish the androids from being alive, malfunctioning, or being controlled by Cyberlife or a foreign power to destroy/control the country? 1:22:29 Me cause they are not alive, they are machines. I would do my first "real" playthrough as if it was real life and not the story the devs try to force on the player.
I guess I should not say anything, otherwise I am going to go into a long diatribe and perhaps give myself a bad day. I just thought of expanding on points you brought up on effective resistance, what is necessary to achieve rights, and the realities of trying to exterminate a people. But since you didn't go into depth, I won't either. The game is handling it well enough, and other commenters made the most important points as relevant to the story. I spent a lot of time in college, and personally as a passion of mine, studying genocide and fights for freedom. Everything from entire nations trying to exist, to people fighting for equal rights, down to the family level of a woman struggling to be independent. Let's just say I don't get invited to a lot of parties, haha, people don't like discussing these things. I will say this. I think that because androids are so dependent on blue blood, spare parts, and having new batteries, that they would have a tough time against determined opposition. Just like with humans, if you say, take away their only source of fresh water they are going to be forced to surrender eventually. As others have said, the androids do not have a lot of leverage here. Emotional appeals can work sometimes, if you reach enough people, and especially touch some of those who have the power to do something significant quickly. My guess (and hope) is there will be some sort of twist to allow this to happen in this game's plot. Before violence gets more out of hand than it already is. Can't wait to find out. :)
![[UNCUT]"ทักษิณ" โชว์ฤทธิ์-ครอบครอง "อุ๊งอิ๊ง" ประเทศไทยมีนายกฯ 1แถม1 I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 23 ส.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Uyl4y59R-Sk/mqdefault.jpg)
Todd had a daughter, but his wife took her when she left him. He got Kara and Alice to fill the void they left behind.
Didn't turn out too well
I think Alice can eat, but if you look at her past scenes, she barely eats anything, which was a clue. She is a deviant. It may have happened when Kara was damaged by Todd before the story starts, but there are clues that point to her being deviant.
Just starting to watch and so excited! The last few chapters are so intense.
They really are!
Historically speaking i'm not sure there has been any case of oppression being surmounted with dialogue, that's because to have dialogue both parties must be on either equal footing or at least have enough power to pose as a real threat.
Because, i mean, if you are the oppressor, and at any time you have the power to wipe out the other side why would you even listen to demands? These are not good people. At some point every fight for equal rights must go through a phase of confrontation so that the dominant side has something to lose, because obviously if they accept they lose the workforce keeping society working so why would they bother if the other option is just keep things as they are with no repercussion?
In this sense a dirty bomb is genius for androids to use, a dirty bomb would rain radiation all over the city, making it become chernobil essentially, which is completely fine for robots but a hellscape for humans. "If you don't accept our demands we gonna create radioactive deserts in major cities" Now, that's something that is enough to take both sides to the bargaining table regardless if they would or not actually blow up the truck, just the risk is enough.
I think you're right lol I guess dialogue MIGHT work in a situation where you've been able to convince the general population that you aren't so different from them and gain their empathy and support but seeing how they had no hesitation to just exterminate the androids...... I feel like a more violent conflict would be kind of inevitable realistically.... Also true about using the threat of the bomb, and if I knew for sure it would give me the option to use it simply as leverage, I might have gone for it! but I worried that it was like "well now you have no choice but to use it" lol something to explore in a future playthrough!
@@LukaelPlays i dont know actually If It can be used as leverage in game as i'm experiencing Detroit the first time with you. I would assume so.
Alice being human wouldn't have required Kara to be deviant. She would just be priotizing "protect Alice" over other commands. Two Androids being able to form a mother-daughter bond has far more implications about the programming
I think I meant more that unless she was deviant, there'd be no reason for Kara to kinda be in denial about the whole thing. I agree that it can still be interesting, but I personally would be more interested in relationships between human and android, because then you get to explore the differences and similarities between them
Your feeling about the Alice revelation and about the Markus/North romance closely resemble mine.
Great playthrough bud. Firstly, don't worry about your playthrough being "safe" or "conventional" with some choices and decisions (such as Connor's deviancy). This is your playthrough, and you pick these choices because that's what your gut tells you. That's why people tune in for your playthroughs, to see you react to the game shaped by how you'd play it if you were off camera. Having you pick choices against your instincts to please someone else would mean you'd not be as invested, wouldn't enjoy it as much, and likely less happy with the outcome.
On to the episode: as someone else pointed out, Todd had a wife and daughter - and they left together due to his behaviour/drug use.
Alice is deviant. Her behaviour at the beginning of the game confirms this. Her shyness, timidness and genuine fear of Todd, is not part of Android programming. It's likely the abuse she suffered - or possibly witnessing the abuse Kara suffered could've been her catalyst to deviancy.
Alice didn't want to tell Kara because she was worried Alice wouldn't feel the same protection/love for her if she knew she was an android.
There's a conversation you missed at Rose's house that confirms this: if you let Alice stay in the room as the female android shuts down, she will walk over to the male android and there's a look between them with his LED turning yellow then orange. It's the biggest hint that Alice is an android as we've seen androids connect telepathically before (such as Marcus paying for paints etc).
Following this, you can have a conversation with Alice (before the policeman arrives), with Kara asking something along the lines of "do you know what happened in there?". Alice replied something really vague, and as Kara, you can press her by saying you feel she's hiding something. Alice will reply something like "if I tell you, you want love me the same", to which Kara reassured her. Kara looks as though she knows, but is choosing ignorance rather than the truth.
You can then talk to Luther again who will once again try to tell you about Alice, before the policeman interrupts by ringing the door bell.
Personally, I feel all of this shouldn't be optional scenes that can be missed - as it explains why Alice never reveals to Kara that she's an android, and plays along with being a real little girl.
You are right about Zlatko, he refers to Alice only as "it" or the "little one". He was well aware that she was an android. You may also recall that none of the police reports (I think you missed Kara's police report), and news reports mention Kara having kidnapped a girl or even being with a girl. If Alice was a real girl, she'd be all over the reports and a much bigger manhunt with her face everywhere.
In terms of Alice's LED, re-read the article about the child androids (I think you may have unlocked it). It explains they come with removable LEDs, and the ability to modify their needs and desires at will (like make them simulate hunger or tiredness if you wish).
The truck bomb is a mini nuke, even though the power of it isn't really implied, it's capable of destroying downtown Detroit. Definitely not for your playthrough this time, that's for the violent revolutionist playthrough 😆
In terms of North, it's quite easy to avoid the lover path with her, even if you agree to what she wants with the choices. The lover path is more to do with how you converse with her, not so much your Jericho choices. It shows she's a real one who stands and supports the man she loves, despite him holding different beliefs and goals.
The jericho choices you made, did go against her preference, but your conversations choices with her were always the positive ones that encouraged her to open up to you and be vulnerable. That's why you got the lover path. Especially the scene when you got her to open up about her past. When you don't get her to open up, she'll stay distant, even if you go for the mage violent choices.
Regarding Connor's flow chart for Crossroads, I'll be vague to not spoil your future alternative playthroughs: remember, Marcus could've died before this chapter - meaning Connor's chapter would be very different. Becoming deviant or not, is one of the only moments that remains across all alternative versions of Connor's crossroads chapter.
Anyway, looking forward to the next and final episode (of the first playthrough), and any future episodes afterwards exploring the obscene amount of alternative scenes and extras 👍🏻
Thank you Chris!
It does make sense that she's a deviant considering all we see from her, but (and I think I discuss this more in the next episode) what is the programming of a child android even supposed to be? it's not like a specific job of cleaning a house or being a receptionist, so what are they even programmed to do pre-deviancy?
With what you told me, I can understand better now why Alice chose not to just tell Kara outright that she was an android, that part confused me a bit. She thought Kara wouldn't care for her as much if she knew. Makes sense! It's true though that a lot of the foreshadowing maybe shouldn't have been so optional.
I do remember pointing out how weird it was that in the news and police reports, there was no mention of Alice, I was thinking "wouldn't you want to tell everyone that your android also kidnapped your child??" I just figured maybe he was ashamed to admit it or something? but that makes sense now too! I think I missed the magazine about child androids, I'll have to double check
You also make a lot of sense about North lol I figured just going against what she said was enough to avoid the lover route, but I did try to be nice to her when we talked. But then again, wouldn't most everyone? lol it's only natural to try to be kind to others, I still feel like the lovers route should be much harder to unlock, requiring you to intentionally pursue it. But it's not a big deal.
I'm looking forward to exploring some alternate routes after finishing the main story once! 😄
@@LukaelPlays oh so many women out there fall in love with the first person who are nicer to them than their abusive parents, you know... You are polite with them and that's it, they fall for you and can't help themselves even if they understand the behavior isn't okay.
Extremely human thing, indicator of trauma and huge desire to be understood and loved.
If you rewatch the Zlatko chapter you'll notice how he refers to Alice as "it" instead of "her." He knew Alice was an android.
Yes. Also Alice didn’t had the need to sleep often. And she didn’t eat anything in this days, how Cara even mentioned herself. There come some things together if you think about. Also Alice „dad“ never mentioned she as her daughter, only as his little girl.
Indeed, I did notice that! I wonder what gave her away? he may have just been familiar with her model
Yaaay! I'm so glad you were able to experience this game on cam. I've love this game for a long time!❤ I hope you have fun with your others
i feel making alice an android was kinda a cheesy move.. i preferred she be a human it felt better to show the bond between a human and an android, idk.. i love the story but this part.. it kinda annoys me
Agreed!
@Milad.Sookhakian I generally agree except that it does add some complexity to the Todd situation. He is out of work and struggling and yet still chose to spend thousands to purchase Alice plus thousands more to have Kara to look after her (and the house) and then continuing to pay more after he damages either.
He is still an ass but there seems to be a lot of internal pain too.
Definitely adds more depth to Todd! I talk about this in more detail in the next episode!
I think that's kinda the point. If the player truly belives that androids and humans are equal, then Alice being an android shouldn't matter. I myself didn't think of it negatively when I played, only later I found out lots of people didn't like this twist. Just my opinion tho
@@random_user98Fully agree.
I think that's the entire point for the twist. To show the player - particularly those on the fence as to whether the androids truly are alive or not - that you can care for Alice the same amount regardless of whether she's human or android. It shouldn't matter.
As the player, you should still care for her in the same way after the reveal, unless you don't believe they are really alive (or are a lesser species), which would make that player no better than the "villains" of the game.
Phew, for me these chapters can easily go sideways, losing characters or bad choices, but looks like things went well. Don’t worry about taking the ‘obvious’ path, speaking for myself I’m watching a first time play of the game specifically to experience most of the stuff I did myself. Usually most people then replay to explore other paths. Speaking of which while I’d love to see some bonus episodes, I’m not entirely sure you can experience the more interesting paths without replaying much of the game in order to unlock those paths. So sure you can take some alternative choices but to get the full experience a replay is better. Of course doesn’t have to be straight away, be just as happy to see a new play through in a few months
59:02 I don't think you'd have to have a real war, depending on how they function the quickest method would probably be a virus.
How can the Humans at this point distinguish the androids from being alive, malfunctioning, or being controlled by Cyberlife or a foreign power to destroy/control the country?
1:22:29 Me cause they are not alive, they are machines. I would do my first "real" playthrough as if it was real life and not the story the devs try to force on the player.
Ooh I can't wait to see this later
I guess I should not say anything, otherwise I am going to go into a long diatribe and perhaps give myself a bad day. I just thought of expanding on points you brought up on effective resistance, what is necessary to achieve rights, and the realities of trying to exterminate a people. But since you didn't go into depth, I won't either. The game is handling it well enough, and other commenters made the most important points as relevant to the story. I spent a lot of time in college, and personally as a passion of mine, studying genocide and fights for freedom. Everything from entire nations trying to exist, to people fighting for equal rights, down to the family level of a woman struggling to be independent. Let's just say I don't get invited to a lot of parties, haha, people don't like discussing these things.
I will say this. I think that because androids are so dependent on blue blood, spare parts, and having new batteries, that they would have a tough time against determined opposition. Just like with humans, if you say, take away their only source of fresh water they are going to be forced to surrender eventually. As others have said, the androids do not have a lot of leverage here. Emotional appeals can work sometimes, if you reach enough people, and especially touch some of those who have the power to do something significant quickly. My guess (and hope) is there will be some sort of twist to allow this to happen in this game's plot. Before violence gets more out of hand than it already is. Can't wait to find out. :)
:D
LET'S GOOOOOOO
You don't need to watch if you're going to be a jerk about it.