Diesel vs Hybrid Economy Test. Is the New Hybrid Worth it?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- How does the fuel economy of Toyota's "self charging" hybrid compare to an older Euro 5 diesel? Which one is more economical in town, on country roads and at 70 mph. Are petrol full hybrids really cleaner than diesel engines?
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00:00 The cars
00:52 Diesel in the City
07:20 Diesel at 70mph
11:37 Diesel on rural roads
14:01 Hybrid in the City
18:58 Hybrid at 70mph
24:50 Hybrid on rural roads
29:00 Combined results
30:57 Hybrid emissions - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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As a rule of thumb, the more a driving environment requires you to use the brakes, the greater the benefit of a hybrid. Nearly all the hybrid economy gain is from regen braking. It's why taxi drivers love them.
Precisely this ^^ Otherwise, the fuel economy is far worse!!
no it isnt. The reason is at low city speeds and lots of starting and stopping the electric motor is far far more efficient. the regen is just the icing on the cake.
So, this would be true for a mild hybrid where the battery is only charged from the wheels. A Toyota hybrid has several tricks it uses to help you save petrol
1. Atkinson cycle engine - gives better fuel economy but less responsive engine, so you need to add something to increase responsiveness e.g. Mazda used a supercharger when they made an Atkinson cycle car, Toyota use an electric motor for this purpose
2. The battery is charged using the engine at more efficient revs. We all know petrol cars are more efficient at higher than lower speeds. A Toyota hybrids stores energy at that higher efficiency for use at lower speeds or power output levels (below 30 hp)
3. Never idles - You'll never catch your hybrid idling if the engine is running it's for a reason - it's either a) warming itself up, b) warming you up, c) charging the battery or d) driving the wheels
4. Discourages rapid driving - they tend to feel better when you're driving moderately and not flooring it, this also helps save petrol. Some of them will even give you a score for how economically you have driven.
5. Fast warm up - electric motors control the coolant flow and there is an egr system to help the engine get up to temperature quickly
6. Regen braking - very noticeable down a long hill just how much energy you can get from regen braking. If you fill the battery going down a hill, the car will automatically switch over to engine braking and will use extra electric power after the hill to get the battery down to 80% quickly - it doesn't want to sit at 100% for long
Hope this helps
Gradient plays a big part. You’ll actually get best economy on a Toyota hybrid by not braking. You can’t capture all the energy you lose so you’re better off keeping it.
Unfortunately the vast majority of drivers do the vast majority of mileage on motorways. In this case the hybrid is lugging the extra weight of a battery. Even in town the regen is offset by lugging the extra weight. Then there is the extra manufacturing cost and complexity. The biggest economy benefit of hybrids is on paper.
Just passed my test this weekend! Thanks for the videos. Took me four tries so dont give up people!
That's fantastic news! Thank you for watching and congratulations on passing!
Your partner got a nice upgrade!
I think so too!
It's a 2023 car. Can't go wrong😊 but I'm glad you chose Toyota. Best upgrade for economy and engine
I have a 2022 71-plate Corolla Touring Sports (estate), which I bought to use as a taxi. It has the previous Gen 4 hybrid system, with the 1.8 litre 122bhp engine. Today, so far, I've done 53 miles, and the mpg meter is reading 69.1mpg. The best fuel economy I've ever seen across a full shift is 74.7mpg, which was a day of long straight roads, with the worst being 48.7mpg on a very cold winter's day in stop start traffic with the heater and heated seats on. Typically, I don't often see less than 53mpg in the winter months and not usually less than 62mpg during the summer months on a combined cycle. If you can get over the noisy CVT gearbox when you accelerate, these Toyota hybrids are brilliant.
and the 2litre is quite quick aswell :) quite fun to drive
These videos are great, very in-depth. Congrats to the GF on the Corolla, it's a nice car, hope it serves her well
Thank you!
hey man i just want to tell i was terrified of driving and because if you in 6 months yesterday i was able to just pick up the keys and drive for the first time and all goes back to you and your videos i love them never stop foing them please ❤️❤️
Nice video, thanks Richard. As an owner of a 2013 citroen of the same model and engine I can confirm that it's super economical on highway at sustained speeds
Is yours also an automatic? How do you like it? Is it smooth? Genuinely curious as I've heard some say they're an automated manual and not too smooth..
@RikAindow mine is the "robotic" one - a manual gearbox equipped with robotic parts (I think Richard's car in the video has got the same).
What you heard is true: for the most part, it it not very smooth (especially in the lower gears) and can be slow to change. In some cases, it could be in the wrong gear, too. I can live with it because i am a relatively new driver and it's my first car :) but I probably would not recommend it, especially for experienced drivers.
@oleksiikovalenko8544 thanks for replying. I still think they're a nice looking car.
@RikAindow I totally agree with you - the design was actually one of the reasons why I bought it :)
They are but the thing is the gap in efficency between petrol and diesel has narrowed big time. A modern petrol now has many of the driving charecteristics of a diesel too. I have a Toyota Auris with a 1.2T petrol engine and it gets mid to high 50s on MPG going down the motorway and it does it quietly too. I know a diesel will easily get anywhere between 60-70mpg but I can live with being a few mpg lower on a run just for the refinement and smoothness of the engine and not having things like DPFs, Adblue and EGR valves and sensors that can break. In a city it makes little to no difference on fuel economy whether I drive diesel or petrol either in fact on shorter runs in colder weather the petrol is more efficent because it heats up quicker.
My partner has a 2019 corolla which she upgraded to from a 2008 diesel avensis. I have a 2012 prius. Absolutely everything you say in this video is true! Or at least I can say my experience matches yours exactly. I can also add that in the case of the Prius it’s very nice (and weird) to own an 11 year old car that still has 4 year’s warranty on the hybrid system. I always look forward to your videos, and this was an especially good one, thanks!
Absolutely brilliant real world comparison, thank you for the effort and clarity Richard.
One of our 1.4 tdci cars gets around 64 MPG doing 30 miles a day on a range of speed limit roads. It is manual, no DPF or stop start either.
That is so nutty. I have to drive the 2nd gen prius like a nerd to keep it over 50mpg
Bet the emissions would trigger the ulez cameras
What car?
@@yowhaatsupProbably Ford Fiesta.
@@PhoenixsWorldVideos the hybrids have come along way though since..
I own an 2012 Auris Hybrid and it is the best car I ever owned. It's very reliable, reasonably comfortable, easy to drive and extremely economical. Low maintenance combined with low running costs hits at least my spot... we have driven this car across Europe and it has 240.000 km on the clock and I use it as a daily driver to work and back. Little to no problems at all. It's on its second set of brakes, first hybrid battery, had to change the AC cooler last year and a stabi rod on the suspension and that's it. Rust is no issue so far and the car is holding up pretty good for its age and mileage. Fuel consumption is around 4 to 4.7 liters per 100km depending on the road conditions. In the city one can achieve figures below 3.5l/100km, on country roads around 4.2l/100km and.on a motorway app 5.5l 30:22 /100km. I will drive this car until it dies on me, no need for something else and my next car is either a corolla 1.8 or a RAV4 hybrid.
My 1997 Peugeot 306 1.9 TDLX has a smidge over half a tank of diesel remaining, after I brimmed it literally to the very top of the neck last time and has done 384 miles on almost 6.6 gallons. That's 58 MPG, all local, for shopping etc. The only minus aspect is road tax of £325 a year, which is an increase of £30 over last year. The car weighs about 1135 kg. The only evap worry is from my sweating forehead, as it's a non air con car.
Then you should know the 306's fuel tank.. first half lasts for ages... the latter half... not so much! I averaged 56mpg in my 306 2.0 HDi over 100k miles (yep, you read that right) as fuel receipts were tracked due to business use.
@@khalidacosta7133 When standard, I only averaged 46 MPG but had a chap fettle the turbo wastegate, then fitted a freeflow air filter and exhaust, also turning up the main fuelling screw and winding back the low speed vacuum bladder compensator a bit at the same time. It's quite amazing how a turbo that kicks in at 1,500 instead of the OE setting of 2,200 RPM improved the economy. Not at constant full pelt, obviously. I dare say your HDi would've been even better if you'd had it remapped etc. I actually did have that done for my motorbike, couldn't do a home tune with that, but got an MPG boost from 42 to 48 MPG there. It does run about 4 degrees Centigrade hotter though, but there's no sign of lean burning on the plugs, so it shouldn't compromise longevity. Famous last words !
@@michaelarchangel1163 Most likely the turbo was set to kick in at 2200 rpm due to needing to meet emissions. Mechanical fueling means it can't adjust the fuelling as accurately and excess air produces more NOx. During the latter half of it's life, it was remapped to 120-130bhp :) Now got a 407 Coupe with the 2.0 HDi, I get 56mpg out of that stock... somehow for a 1.7 tonne barge!
@@khalidacosta7133 That's a very luxurious car you have there. Sadly, my garage is too small for more than a small car alongside the bike. I do have a Bosch fuel pump and ancillaries as spares and replacements for the Lucas, just in case diesel prices go through the roof and if I may wish to be able to get a veg oil conversion. All's good at the mo though and at 83,000 miles I'll leave it well alone. All the best to you.
Just open the window, free old school air con !
The Citroen is old but still looks modern next to the Toyota. I loved that Citroen.
Citroën looks more modern? Are you serious
@@msg9434 I didn't say MORE modern. I just said it still looks modern. As in it doesn't look like it's 12 years old.
This model of C4 did age quite well and was made for a good number of years. I had a brand new one as a rental car for my trip to Italy in 2015. It was a 1.6 diesel, but manual. Handled the trip very well, was comfortable on the longer trip and kept up with motorway traffic nicely, all whilst doing over 60mpg on the longer run between Rome and Venice. Great car.
It’s French, I’d rather walk!
The intro reminded me of the old top gear 🤣
Thanks for helping me pass in February!!
Been enjoying these types of videos, excited to watch!
I really loved this one! I was unaware that you're an enthusiast because I've only seen your driver safety videos (And I love them too).
Definitely going to follow your channel more closely for the quality content just like this!
That is phenomenal. This was more informative than many others on this medium. A thoughtful and informative spiel. Great huge thumbs Up 👍👍👍
I just wanna say thanks, I recently passed my test with 0 faults, and a lot of it has to do with watching and learning from your videos. Even though I'm from Australia these videos were still incredibly useful and relevant for passing the test. You're a legend keep doing what you're doing.
That's fantastic news! Thank you for watching and congratulations on passing!
I want a diesel hybrid! It will have a combined 3.5l/100km!!! @@ConquerDriving
@irvinewayne4086 they don't make them because they will be too economical. If that corolla hybrid had a 1.6hdi engine in it, it would be extremely economical, over 100mpg would be possible because diesel engine can handle heavy loads no problem. Hybrid petrol is a sad story, I already owned one in my channel.
@@fix-and-drive-diy-repairs Haha. No. Diesel hates short ways and cold starts - precisely what a petrol engine has to survive when paired with an electric engine. It would wear heavily during city runs and would likely fail under this duress soon after 100 000 km (especially the High-pressure Direct Injection - "HDI").
There is a reason behind the pidly 1.8 L petrol engine with just 98 hp - indirect petrol injection and very simple construction, no DPF, no turbo. Also, there is no need for the excessive torque of diesels, which would just need better and larger gearbox...
Of course, the HDI + el. eng. might sound interesting for highways.... but... why the "+ el. eng.", then? TL;DR: There is a good reason behind pairing petrol and hybrid engines.
@Sunshrine2 I owned both toyota prius plug-in hybrid and citroen c4 1.6hdi. I am a taxi driver. Fuel cost is the number one expense I have to reduce to survive. Citroen is the best car I've ever used as a taxi not the hybrid.
Check videos I made about my prius 5 years ago! The hybrid was a disaster for me. I even built a bigger battery with a tesla module to try to cut costs but it was useless. I am speaking from experience.
Good to see the tests done with both types, and in particular the latest Corolla hybrid. I now run the current Yaris hybrid, which to a large degree is very similar, albeit smaller - better than the previous Yaris. The Corolla is made in Derby, with the engines in North Wales, whereas the Yaris is assembled in Valenciennes, northern France.
Years ago, the last diesel I ran was a Honda Civic with the 1.6l engine, which was the most efficient one I had, at least for long runs. It did well at higher speeds, because it had lots of tweaks to drag down the aerodynamic resistance - even low ground clearance (not nice on rough surfaces, though), sealed doors, other minor items etc, and it had the Michelin “energy saver” tyres on. On account of all that, it just came under the zero road tax figure on test (when there was zero tax below 100 g/km, to encourage the use of modern diesel engines, in 2013).
In round numbers, at higher speeds about two thirds of the resistance is down to air resistance, with the other third being down to wheel resistance, with that bit being variable with the tyre products. Thus the latter bit is more important at lower speeds. I often do day trips that are affected by the wind direction - east/west typically, which is quite noticeable on the trip meter display. So a 30 mph headwind at 70 mph is like 100 mph on a calm day. The best figure I had was with a named storm behind me one day!
The confounding factor when comparing diesel with petrol thermal efficiency is, of course, the notably different thermal content of the two. It’s roughly 9.7 kWh/litre for E10 petrol, and 10.7 kWh/litre for diesel. Of course, the excise duty is per unit volume, not energy content, so the less we get, the more we pay (with VAT on top), although petrol is often a bit cheaper per litre than diesel, depending on the season.
I have yaris 2015, hybrid. Tbh feels like worst car I had.
I have a Toyota Corolla 1.8 hybrid . I bought it in September 2021 and I have found it to be very economical and also a great drive .I enjoyed watching this video . Thanks
Just passed my test today with 3 minors. Thank you so much for your videos, it has been like having a second instructor! Much love 🙏🏻❤️
That's fantastic news! Thank you for watching and congratulations on passing!
Congratulations for your video. As an owner of a Corolla 140H I completely agree with your comments. I love driving it in any condition as it always provides the best driving experience (for me) in terms of efficiency, response, etc.
Very informative and deep video! Congratulations!
Having just bought a brand new Hybrid Corolla I thought I would have a look at this video. I have now come across this reviewer quite a few times and find his information and presentation excellent.
Good job on using all common units of fuel consumption measurement 👍
Excellent video. You have one new subscriber.
So as most electric cars don't have gears, does that mean if I pass my test in an electric car I can only drive automatics?
yes
Yes, if you pass without a clutch pedal you can only drive cars without a clutch pedal.
Great video as usual Richard. I have a late 2012 Toyota Auris Hybrid, and even in this cold weather, I'm getting between 64 to 74 mpg. My commute to work is fairly short. But even on the open roads doing about 60 mph, I get well over 70 mpg, sometimes even over 80 mpg! I do have a very light foot though.
I have a 2013 Lexus GS450h with an older version on Toyotas hybrid system, it amazes me how good on fuel it is. Even though it is still a 3.5 V6 i can easily manage high 40s on a run, ive even seen over 50mpg on a steady run.
Thank you for doing this very scientific and rigorous experiment.
Great bit of research, I did anticipate the results - One thing you didn't mention is the fact diesel is more expensive too so if you compare the running cost of those mpg the hybrid/diesel differential widens even further. Its then an open and shut case hybrid win.
Hi Ritchard Id love to see you do some diy car reapir and maintinace content on your other channel I can tell you are really enthusiatcic and knowledgable about cars and me and many others would love to see it!
Amazing attention to details.
Toyota Hybrids are very efficient and reliable. That's why virtually every Uber etc car is a Toyota Hybrid. Other car manufacturers are not nearly so good. As you pointed out there are various forms of 'Hybrid' technology and I think that Dispatches Documentary may have been looking at some of the less efficient cars on the market that don't perform as claimed.
Yep! Only the DC/DC convertor tends to break during the warranty period. Mine broke too on my ~5 year old Corolla Hybrid with ~90k km, but got fixed for free at the dealer. It's a 2k Euro component excluding labor though haha.
In Spain Uber is about 70% hyundai ioniq, 29% corolla and 1% Fiat Tipo and Ford Mondeo
Nice scenic drives around Essex
Tuesday 27th June - 6 weeks and 6 days ago! The early days of summer, I miss those days. 😀
Taxi drivers get around 50mpg because of heavy loads, rushing, and get even less mpg if they do a lot of airport runs!
Hybrids don't like steep hills and heavy loads!
The corolla will be my next car. How it can just sip fuel is incredible.
That peugeot-citroen 1.5L diesel engine was a marvel of efficiency. I owned the previous C4 model (the coupe one): coupled with the insane aero and light weight it had excellent fuel economy especially on the motorway. Pity that the 90hp version didn't have a sixth gear.
Diesal engines are usually more efficient in lower gears ,for example, in 30 mph zone, you would be in 4th gear in a diesal but be 6th gear for petrol.
1.6 liter turbo for my case. I drove peugeot 208 in my town, having a lot of elevations and heavy traffic. Stop and go including the huge capacity to start the engine again without hitting the battery, I was so impressed on its insane level of efficiency. I miss it but I moved on to Clio mk 4 because it's the only option I can have in this crazy Hyundai's kindom.
Well done, thank you!
Thanks for putting the "L/100Km" info. That's what we use here in Portugal.
12 year old Diesel ( with 136k miles on the clock) vs brand new Hybrid. OMG. And yet not a lot of difference...apart from their current purchase prices approx. 2k vs 32k! The old banger still running good, but not very clean for sure. Next time please compare the 23 cars for more relevant result. Cheers
Had the same thought. While fuel costs may be similar, there's a few tank fulls in 25k purchase price!
Love the fact you already knew you were going to record the 2 car shot later yet mentioned it before haha
I had a Citroen C3 1.4 diesel for over 17 years & traded it in for a new Suzuki 1.2 soft hybrid Ignis last March. They both did about 70 mpg. So what I want is a hybrid diesel so may get 100 mpg then 😁
Now, this is just the amount of fuel. In our country diesel is cheaper than petrol, so it almost evens out if calculated in money instead of liters. On top of that, the older diesel is much less capital lying on the road, so financially, the diesel is far better off. A stronger version of this diesel engine would have had a better torque and thus an even better mileage.
The trip computer on my car is always 100% accurate. Because it doesn't have a trip computer. I just work out the economy myself from the pump and miles. (well actually Fuelly does that for me but...)
2023hybrid euro6 vs 2011 diesel euro5? Fair comparison? Next time, compare same age!
1.6hdi, absolutely amazing economy. I have 2 now.
As a taxi driver, I owned both prius plug in and 1.6hdi. My verdict, as a taxi driver, Citroen is better.
Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, good economy(800 miles from a tank). All this is in my channel.
I just paid less than 5k for a 2016 Citroen c4 grand Picasso 1.6hdi. A 2016 toyota prius/auris/corola hybrid would cost ~£15k~£20k. It doesn't make any sense for me!
I am staying with Citroen until 2035 or later.
I wanna congratulate you for the great choice of your new car, Toyota hybrids are unmatched
Great video . From experience of new cars, after 3000, 5000 miles the economy should improve as the car beds in.
I do think this was an excellent test Richard. Toyota really do prove they do an excellent job with their petrol hybrids, and its no wonder the Toyota Corolla, not just the estate but all the different body styles, are best selling cars worldwide. About the end of the video where you mentioned about channel 4 with the hybrids emitting more harmful gases than diesel is interesting to me too, and also I find some emissions regulations a bit strange. For example, my Ford, with a 2.0 diesel, is Euro 6, but unlike most Euro 6 diesels it doesn't use adblue. I was told by the dealer Ford was late to bringing adblue, but its strange to me how it's Euro 6 compliant. I dont know much about emissions and how they work much. I do care a lot about fuel economy, and there was one thing about the Corolla and Citroen. I don't know their drag coefficients, but sometimes longer, lower ground cars are usually better efficient than small hatchbacks, because they are more like a tear drop, than a box shape. I don't know if thats the case, but I just learned it from videos online by car channels and social media. Whats your thoughts? Loved your video by the way, its great
I don't know the drag co efficency of the Citroen but the Corolla estate and hatchback have the same.
To my understanding, the Fords use DPF (diesel particulate filters) to keep the emissions standards in line with euro 6.
@@luckas1234321 it does make sense with a DPF, because my Ford has one, but I've found other cars with both DPF and adblue, including new Ford's. For example, I found VW used both to meet Euro 6. That's why I get a bit confused with Euro 6, and unlike petrols, Euro 6 is very strict for diesel, especially in ULEZ, because you only need a Euro 4 petrol car, or Euro 3 motorcycle, to be compliant. On the other hand, diesel has to be Euro 6.
@@josephmarsh8235I know the older Hyundai Ioniq is one of the most efficient EVs. It's a similar shape to a Toyota Prius. But it can do 150 miles with a 28kwh battery pack. The Nissan leaf does 104 miles with a 30kwh battery pack. The Ioniq 6 is supposed to be even more efficient. The Ioniq 5 is a hatchback and is less efficient then the original Ioniq.
@@micheals1992 makes sense. There could be a number of reasons, especially with weight, driving, tyre pressures, batteries, engines and more. I just learnt a lot online through car channels like Donut Media, Carwow, Top Gear and my favourite online mechanic Scotty Kilmer.
great video!!
It's my turn to say thank you for all the help from your videos! Passed today first time with 4 minors, thought for sure I'd failed haha, will continue to watch and learn!
That's great to hear! Thank you for watching and congratulations on passing!
That's a really good in-depth review of Toyota's Hybrid system VS diesel *
One thing worth mentioning is that diesel cars is not ideal for people who looking for do short journeys or drive it in cities as the DPF system will get clogged* it's best for long journeys and motorways
I dont think its entirely fair that the dual carriageway/motorway is emptier in the hybrids test even if the speed is the same as when you're around traffic on a fast road like a dual carriageway or motorway it creates allot of turbulance and air movement in the direction of travel. Larger vehicles can also shield you from the full brunt of the wind.
I know in my car gets about 65mpg at 60mph on an empty motorway, on a fairy busy but flowing motorway it can get 77mpg at 60mph.
Good work. Thank you
My previous car was a Vauxhall Insignia sports tourer ( Estate) 2.0 Diesel ( Manual Transmission ) and I regularly make a journey from Staffordshire to Norwich a distance of 175 miles and as long as I stayed within the speed limit I was able to get 66 mpg .
I now have a Vauxhall Mokka 1.4 t petrol ( Automatic Transmission ) and doing the same journey I can only get 45 mpg .
My brother's Seat Leon from 2001 1.9tdi after chiptuning goes 3.6l/100km on a highway and I know it's a highway so revs are low but still that's really good
I’ve had a 70 reg Corolla Design spec from new. It has now covered 62k the total average is 59.4 mpg however, my boot is always full of work tools etc. this figure will lower during the winter months and increase as we approach the summer. It also has the adaptive cruise as shown that works really well in traffic.
I do find the fuel consumption for the Toyota on the motorway quite disappointing. I drive about 38k miles a year and currently drive a Volvo XC60 T6 recharge (small battery). On motorways at 120-130 km/h it uses about 6.5l. In the UK for the long drive it was just above 6l/100km. That’s a difference of only about 1.2l/100km for a car that is considerably heavier, less aerodynamic and way more powerful. In the city and on secondary roads my consumption is lower, but there I use the PHEV advantage.
And I am sure my V60 T6 will be better than the XC60. But all and all: the smaller Toyota isn’t that much more economical than a bigger, more comfortable car that is way more fun (and comfortable) to drive. Bigger engines can be efficient in the correct circumstances.
I got one myself. Going ~120-130km/h mine sits around 4.4L/100km. That's 47% more efficient than your Volvo. Most of my driving is during the daytime however, then the Dutch speed limit is 100km/h. At that speed, my average is ~3.6 liters/100km. The key point with Toyota's hybrid system is to not constantly drive it agressively. If you do so, economy takes a nose dive, especially at 120-130km/h.
I own a C-HR hybrid. Drove 2k on holiday. Mostly 120/130kph on the German autobahn. Real (not bc) consumption 4.8L/100km. Most important thing… no worries about ADAC…
Thanks . This popped into my reccomended as i have been looking for a while into getting a new hydrid. i still run a 98 1.9 TDI Seat and is still in good health 25 years and 400 k KM on and it uses less the 4 L 100kl but the lack of airbag, Abs and now a broken AC with no refinement it really is time to go . Cars life average a lot longer in warmer climates, i am in Spain and my Seat has not any rust anywhere and was on the coast most of its life
On similar narrow country roads here in Sweden the speed limit would be 70 kmh. Quite a difference compared to the UK. Much more fun in the UK.
I agree. The speed limits appear quite different to where I live (Poland). The normal limit for "country roads" would be 90 kmh here, but that's mostly for somewhat wider roads with hard-shoulders and not in a proximity of human settlements. 60 mph feels really fast on a twisty, hilly road without a hard-shoulder. On the other hand, 110 kmh (70 mph) seems _very_ slow as the top speed you can drive with on a motorway! Although, one has to admit, that the British motorways _are_ different -- on ours, the slip roads are much more sparse.
@@barsorrroYes , that would be the same here in Sweden where the country roads are wider with hard shoulder. Whenever I do drive in England it usually takes a while to get used to the higher speeds on those narrow roads.
A few years ago, I was given a Ford Mondeo Vignale 2.0 Hybrid (Atkinson engine, non-plug in on 235 width tyres) which weighed 1650kg . I drove that to Manchester and back regularly. Best I achieved was hypermiling (56mph, gentle accel not to kick in engine, regen braking only) it and got 42.5 mpg. In my 2.0 diesel Peugeot 407 which also weighed 1650kg on 235 width tyres, I can do the same journey, at the same speed and get 65mpg. The Mondeo was about 10 years newer and with 100k less miles on the clock. Quite disappointed in the results!
That's because ford's hybrid was rubbish. There's a reason most private hire in London is Toyota hybrids. Easy 55 to 60 mpg average. More if you try.
@@dd9ag Please elaborate and provide proof... the private hire's in London are mostly Prius, which is a class down from the Mondeo (hence weighs less, closest competitor would be between the Focus and Fiesta). The Ford is a very attractive package, Atkinson engine, CVT gearbox and an excellent charging / use system allowing one pedal driving. Toyota will be more reliable...but that's not a metric I touched on.
@@khalidacosta7133 well the Toyota isn’t just more reliable it’s more economical as you proved. A lot seem to be Prius plus 7 seaters which are just as spacious as mondeos.
@@dd9ag I don't think you understand how car manufacturers operate platforms. The Mondeo is a platform above the Prius platform, which requires better NVH. This increases weight, decreasing fuel economy, amongst other things. It is irrelevant to speculate one has better fuel economy or not, based on what you "feel" and what taxi drivers in London use. The closest competitor, the Toyota Camry Hybrid has an official fuel economy of 53mpg. I'll stick with my diesel where I get 56mpg without a problem.
@@khalidacosta7133 oh sure i do, i get that the mondeo is a d segment car. The prius is arguably a c segment car so as you say the mondeo will be heavier and less fuel efficient. But i have a RAV 4 hybrid which is more efficient. It’s possible the mondeo is longer but it has similar space and refinement to a d segment car yet i get 50-60 mpg. The official mpg of the camry you quite is wltp, i bet the wltp of a mondeo is less. But anyway you were talking about a hybrid mondeo weren’t you?
We have a Honda Jazz Cross Hybrid. Excellent car, very relaxing drive with full aids and assists. We decided on it over the Corolla due to the larger interior space (especially the rear seats) although the boot isn’t the largest. Currently averaging around 65mpg on short runs, but has been upto 70 on longer country runs and down to 60 on motorway jaunts.
Very useful video . I will keep my diesel since i drive 90% of the time on highway
For me the best average use have from Toledo 1,6tdi 65-75mpg.
It's 9 years old wv engine.. very satisfying. Cheap to maintain, service ,drive.
Great experiment! I've a 160 mile commute to work and home, drive a 1.6TDI and always wondered would a hybrid be more economical. I was also considering an EV but feel driving a consistent 70 MPH for the majority of the journey would nearly cost me more than diesel. I feel diesel still has a place in modern transport for long distance.
Years ago I did something similar. My grandad brought is first hybrid it was a Toyota Prius 56 plate.
My dad had a VW Bora tdi 130 sport.
We found the Prius to be more economical around town but the bora was much more economical on a run.
So it looks like it’s still the same as before you need to look at the type of driving you do and pick the type of car that suits your needs.
Me and my wife have gone down to one car we did have a seat Altea 2.0tdi dsg and a Toyota Yaris 1.33 MMT
We kept the Toyota because cheaper road tax around town the economy where most the driving is done the Toyota was more economical. A roads very similar it was only on long motorway journeys that the diesel would be a lot more economical and you were looking at nearly 20 mpg difference.
But it’s rare to do such long trips.
I prefer litres per hundred as a 20mpg difference at 50-70mpg is smaller than a 20mpg difference at 20-40mpg.
@@RennieAsh 20 mpg is 14.1 litres per 100
but then, if diesel is more expensive, wouldn't that negate the better mileage?
Still not enough to warrant buying one if you were doing lots of motorway miles.
If you do lots of town driving the hybrid wins hands down
Świetny test! 😀👍
Also if you own a car with a turbo. You should let the car idol for 30 seconds before turning the engine off. This allows the turbo spool to fully settle and allow oil to remain there
Especially after motorway cruising I usually dawdle at the services slip road and take plenty of time, leaving the engine to tick over for a minute once stopped
As you say, you don’t want a hot turbo immediately having the oil flow stopping
somewhat different now with start /stop tech... if you park your car and then engine turns off for the start/stop function, you can just turn the engine off.... if it doesn't, let it idle as you say..
Great video -- as always, impressive dilligence and methodic approach. Also, your narrative is clear, informative and straightforward, and yet it's very pleasant and engaging to listen to.
Congratulations for the car -- it does look like a great, modern, advanced and very sensible market offer.
I have nothing particularly wise to say about that, apparently rather sensationalist, documentary you mention towards the end of the video, but one may wonder why the petrol engines employed in hybrid-powered cars should produce more dangerous polution than other combustion engines. On the face of it, it doesn't make any sense, since in such setting the engine gets to work in its optimum rev range the most often, and engines, I believe, tend to produce less toxic exhaust (and one most efficiently dealt with by the catalytic converter) when they are at their optimum revs and load. So, unless the "trickery" involved in the Atkinson cycle may lead to different emission characteristics than those of a regular petrol engine (which, admittedly, it may), it would indeed appear quite incredible.
I was thinking that the Atkinson cycle may change things but I don't know.
I feel like most concerns for hybrid emissions are based on times where you put your foot down and wake up a cold engine and have it deliver near full throttle without it warming up. Older cars used to run rich on startup but direct injection and heated O2 sensors probably minimise this a lot.
+ I think some hybrid cars preheat the engine.. Hopefully reduces any engine wear from cold thrashing.
It would be also interesting to compare things such as service costs and reliability. For example Toyotas are known to be bullet proof, unlike Citroen that doesn't have as good reputation on reliability long term. Hybrids do not have any big maintenance works other than various fluid changes and health-checkup for the hybrid system (including battery).
Very good video. I have a 62 C4 1.6 manual diesel which has a combined mpg (corrected) of 58.8 over eleven years. 4% over estimation full tank method. I’ve been very happy with it as it was a lucky buy with £4000 off after the financial crash overstock and has been very thrifty indeed
Anyway I was thinking of a Corolla next but research didn’t convince me of the mpg in reality
I am persuaded by your video!
I am considering a C3 electric for twenty odd grand, but if not the Corolla is my top choice… LOL or the new Civic 😂
Thank you 🙏
Thank you for such an interesting video.
I know that you would have checked the tire pressures on both cars before your tests, would be nice if you mentioned it.
Also the level of the traction battery in the hybrid at the start and end of each test would indicate possible economy variance. The aircon for both cars would add more discrepancies as their operations are totally different. Maybe best to test with them off on a cool day when heating and cooling are not needed.
Would love to see another economy test of the Corolla in the winter.
I drive a rav 4 hybrid awd 2020, get about 600-650 miles out of 49l e10 unleaded in summer. I coldest winter months can drop to about 520 miles out of the same amount of fuel. This will happen between about December and February.
@@andersriksson100 yes not nautical miles.
@@dd9ag 😄😄 good one! I had gallons in my head when I asked... 600-650 nautical miles would be awsome, however not to be expected. 600-650 miles is still impressive for a SUV!
@@andersriksson100 i was thinking are there some other kind of miles I’m not aware of lol!
Hi from Australia. I have owned three generations of Toyota Prius( currently a gen 4). All have been utterly reliable, no major problems or repairs, regular maintenance only. Current one is six years old. None have required more than a set of tyres and the current one a 12 volt battery and wiper blades. Economy has continued to improve, now at 64 mpg (imperial). The emissions that diesel’s have that petrol hybrids don’t suffer from are Nitrogen Oxides(NOX). All Toyota hybrids according to tests conducted locally generate the absolute minimum of NOX which is 0.006 grams/ kilometre. NOX is a known carcinogen, in addition diesel emissions also contain high amounts of particulates which are the known cause of smog. Also every litre of diesel used in a vehicle produces more CO2. So the usage of hybrids is a positive contribution to air quality with stop-start also helping. Diesel usage produces ten times the NOX of petrol necessitating Adblue treatment which will still produce more NOX by a factor of two to ten times depending on the vehicle(trucks and SUV’s being the worst. By choice I will not buy a large vehicle of any kind if I have no use for it on a daily basis. I have run hybrids for twenty years and they have been the best choice for economy and as an ownership experience Also had a Honda CRZ hybrid and a Civic Type R so not totally devoid of enjoyment plus have a Mazda 3 skyactiv x mild hybrid. Another excellent car. Your videos are also clear well presented and thoughtful. Long may you continue. Cheers.
Would like a review of the new car after you owned it for a bit! Nice video
Diesel can't be beat for long motorway trips up n down country at constant speeds that's the main selling point, be interested see price the Toyota vs equal diesel
Very interesting video - I’ve got a 2019 Kia Ceed diesel. Drive about 15,000 miles a year and it averages 60-65mpg on a run, possibly a bit more if driven very carefully. Modern hybrids can be good but are twice the price of a used diesel which you have to factor in
Fully agree with you opinion
Great video. Real world scenarios like you’ve done here give the real world driver a more realistic picture. Of course, keeping the Citroen rather than buying the Toyota would save a lot of money. I wonder if a manual diesel Citroen would be even more economical. That’s probably another video!
In 2015 I had a brand new C4 1.6 HDi, the same shape as this one, but it was a 6 speed manual. On a run between Rome and Venice, it hit just over 62mpg which isn't bad considering the motorway was relatively twisty, with long gradients. The only time I really had to stop was to pay tolls and the start stop system kicked in without fail every time.
Buying a new car is not cheaper than a similar 10 year old car. The manual will probably be worse as it doesn't have the micro hybrid system and this auto is still a manual gearbox, just with a robot changing gear. It will come down to how it is driven.
If You have a little interest in saving fuel the most efficient way of moving the Toyota hybrid is to coast, its very simple because all You have to do is to feather the accelerator so the car is close to freewheeling. You don't have to do anything else, your brake and stearing servo:s are electric and functions normally and the engine is shut of so there is no idling. You dont have to take this to any extreme, If You just keep it as a mind set and apply it over time to any degree when it's appropriat Your gas mileage will improve. It's not for everyone but I personally find it natural and satisfying.
Interesting video. A very marginal difference in fuel economy that will take a very, very long time to offset the cost of getting the new car.
That's a lovely car Richard! Your other half sounds a bit like me, I admit to being a nervous driver and used to let my other half do most of the driving especially the motorways. Just me now so I have to do it all, I don't want to be a nuisance to my Children they're all busy getting on with their lives, I'm not as bad as I was though.
Elephant race! (8:50). That's the first time I've heard a truck on truck dual carriageway race called that.
Interesting video Richard, thanks.
I would expect the Corolla to handle better than the C4 based on the fact that the Corolla is 12 years younger than the C4. Also, even when new, the C4 was reportedly let down by its poor handling, according to the reviews of the time.
As for the fuel effiency, back in 2015 I had a similar specced, but brand new C4, albeit with a manual gearbox. 1.6 e-HDi of some description. It averaged 64mpg when travelling between Rome and Venince. To be fair i thohtht it was a great car for the trip, the 1.6 diesel performed better then expected in terms of higher speed power delivery, and economy.
My daily driver is a manual 2007 2.0 Mondeo Mk4 TDCi (euro 4) and on a long run it can hit about 61mpg, although this quickly drops to the low-mid 40s in other driving conditions.
The Corolla hybrid system clearly did a great job, thanks in part to its CVT gearbox and the years of Toyota development. It seemed to handle the speed run down the country roads very well. 😊
How did you like the automatic C4? Again, I've heard its an automated manual and some claimed it wasn't that smooth.
I have used C4, 8 years old, 1.6 diesel, automatic. Nice ride. Really no big problems. Just regulary tires and oil (+filters) change. It has smooth transmission (not as cvt) and it's really enough fast and comfort ride most times. Handling is good but it is slightly prone to leaning in corners. Consumed about 4-5 lit even at higher speeds. It is not an expensive car and for that money it is a very good hatchback mid-ranger. Toyotas are much more expensive.
Great video. You didn't mention what mode you were driving in. Eco, normal or sport.
A Toyota Yaris Hybrid 2016 model. No car aficionado we have use it from new, seamless transition from electric to petrol power mode. About 60 mpg in a Cornish location. Our last car, last motorcycle a couple of years back. Diesel Kia before that, particulates guilt ended that relationship. A personal transition.
The main reason why I chose to buy Toyota Prius (it was a single car on sale in a whole Montenegro country) instead of regular diesel europe cars (Citroens, VW, etc) is that I know it's VERY VERY reliable car. Toyota Prius has absolutely reliable transmission. There is nothing that can break or wear there. It has quite reliable engine that can easily last up to 500 000 km and more. And it's pretty efficient. If the road is straight, without mountains, then it can do up to 3.5L/100km on a highway.
I quite fancy the Corolla estate in about 5-6 years time (have just bought a Euro6 2014 diesel auto to replace a 2002 diesel manual that I've had for 10+ years) - as you've shown, the win is in stop start and intermittent power delivery conditions where the regen ability wins over a traditional auto where all the energy is wasted when easing off or braking - 1kWh seems puny but it clearly makes a difference and I expect the hybrid system will top up the electric capacity to give those short bursts rather than allows the engine to end up in a non-efficient zone...on longer runs at high power delivery on motorways it may be marginally less but it will still out-do a standard petrol or even a PHEV running on petrol alone (the Outlander seems to be one poor example of this where 30mpg isn't unheard of on an empty battery!)
and the 2 litre corrolla is quite nippy aswell...
Interesting results. I expected the diesel to do better.
Surely these self charging hybrids are the future over full charging EV's
petrol is a finite resource, so at some point its going to be too expensive to buy petrol
there are diesels that do beter, much better.
Bought a Corolla estate early this year to replace a Honda Civic Diesel. I live in rural ireland and am comfortably averaging 4l/100km(~70mpg), you do have to learn how to get the best from the hybrid system - there is an energy flow screen which shows when the engine/battery or both are driving the wheels but much more importantly also shows when you are recovering charge back into the battery, teaches you to let the recovery system do the breaking on approach to junctions etc. Service costs and frequency are a big factor counting against diesels now - to meet the latest standards oil changes need to be more frequent and pushes the costs in favour of the hybrids. In terms of hybrid emissions in urban areas - where I live most of the driving in the small towns and villages is in electric mode - zero.
No really a fair test using an 12yo diesel and a brand new hybrid, The newest diesels are MUCH more economical I regulary get over 85mpg in my 21 plate Skoda 2.0tdi on a motorway at 65-70 mph and 66 around town.
id love to see this between the toyota and a diesel hybrid
With regards to emissions there's a massive difference between Cat 5 and Cat 6 diesel. Also, it's a pity you didn't compare the new hybrid with a diesel that wasn't 12 years old. My only experience of driving a mild hybrid was an XC40 that returned around 25mpg! So I bought a diesel that returns 65mpg.
My 2.0l Lexus UX 250h is getting 57 mpg which is good enough for me.
I love your cold sarcasm :)
A much better comparison would have been to compare a 2023 diesel to the Corolla while including the starting price of both cars to get a better idea of the economy.
Hi Richard - Good evening, What's your view on C4 diesel, are they reliable and cheap to maintain ? Would appreciate your response. Thanks
Brilliant 👍
So it a huge differance, worth to check
How about driving this C4 with robotized automatic gearbox? Once I wanted to buy 3008 with this system but in the end I decided into 2.0HDI with 6speed hydrokinetic. Am I right they combined 1,6HDi just with robotized manual, when it comes to automat.
Very interesting! You seems to know, what you're talking about, which is quite rare these days in my opinion.
One question: My experience is, that the accuracy of the trip computer is different, depending on how I drive. In my car (BMW 523i E39). It is very precise, when driving without cold starts. But when cold starts occurs, the accuracy becomes bad, about 0,5 ltrs/100 km.
Is this also your experience, and how you included it?
True for the UK, but not for Autobahn driving in Germany. If you ever blasted a modern Diesel over a hilly Autobahn, you are never, ever going for anything else. Such a treat; provided it's 5 am in summertime. Still Toyota's technology is very appealing e.g. for toxi driving in cities.