@@fivepoundpete Your system really inspired me to get creative and layer materials with reflection and absorption in mind. Thanks to your video, I really thought through what both sound and heat do as they pass through various materials. Thanks again!
I have finished the walls and ceiling with this system and they are working great. I hope you find other interesting ideas for your future van build in these videos . Good luck.
I am so impressed with your build. I've been watching all your videos! If you ever want to sale your van. Let me know!!! Your doing everything right! Size and weight are my priorities.
Thanks for this info - can’t believe I’m one of the first subscribers - I’ll check out your other videos right away - daughter is just starting a ford transit connect xlt build - it’s tiny -
I know this is a clickbait title, but if you want the best insulation system ever, you need to define your metric. by environmental impact, you would use cork. Its renewable, fire resistant, hydrophobic, carbon negative and has an R value of 4 per inch. if you want the best by pure R value, vacuum panels at R60 per inch or aerogel at R20 per inch. you can get 8mm aerogel thermawrap blanket effectively R5.5. Aerogel is 99.99% air. It is 4 times more insulating than thinsulate. You can buy 40x3ft roll for $1200. its hydrophilic, easy to work with and you can use it to cover windows while still allowing light in. With that said I applaud you on your thoughtful system. Some good ideas there!
Yes, clickbait. I appreciate your feedback. Weight is high on my list of criteria and materials that are readily available. I am not familiar with aerogel and will look into it. I am always looking for new materials.
Yes and no for cork; yes it is a renewable ressources but we use already too much for the crrent trees ability. also it can not be flexible enough to be easily slide in between ribs. Aerogel is not affordable. I would need like 200sqft so close to 2000$
Cabot Thermal Wrap is almost identical to Aspen's aerogel blanket materials (the patent expired). This is the same material as the stuff used in Toasty Feet insoles, POE aerogel sleeping pads, and Burton ski jackets.
Hi Pete, excellent videos! I especially love the fiberglass floor. It’s one of a kind and brilliant! I have a question for you: why didn’t you use lizard skin ceramic insulation? It’s lightweight and seems to produce good results. Thanks!
I'm glad you like my videos. To be honest I had never heard of lizard skin. I would need to learn more about its noise and thermal properties. I looks like it might be a good sound dampening layer compared to butyl mat for its weight. More research is needed on my part for maybe a future build. I seems like it is too dense of a material to be a good insulator compared to Thinsulate. It also looks like a real mess to install. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Hi Pete, I went to look at the Pro Select R-Matte Plus Foam Boards and they have a paper backing on one side (foil on the other). Did you peel the paper off or leave it? If left, did it have any effect on the lamination?
I went to look at the new material and my local Home Depot no longer carries it. My foam board had a plastic backing that I pealed off before gluing to my plywood. If the new material has a paper backing, that would be even better than the plastic for stiffness. Good luck on your van build.
What's the reason that you glue the black side of your Thinsulate to the van metal, as appose to the white side? Also, in your wall insulation steps, at what point do you do your rough wiring?
Two main reasons to glue the backing side of Thinsulate to the van wall, 1) the backing helps to deaden the vibration of the wall panels to reduce noise, and 2) the batting provides an airgap to allow heat to reflect off the foil layer of the rigid foam insulation back to the outside of the van. I ran the wiring after the Thinsulate was installed to keep the wiring away from the metal walls to protect it. I used the metal channels of the van for some of the wiring and protected the wires with loom.
@@fivepoundpete Thanks, this is all very helpful. 3 questions: It looks like van in the background of your video, you Thinsulate everywhere, except over the ribs of your van. Is that true? It also looks like you are attaching wood strips on the ribs of your van. What is the thickness of those wood strips? Are you attaching the 1/2" Polyiso - 1/4" plywood - fabric layer on top of the wood strips, over all areas of your walls? Thanks
I put Thinsulate over all of the metal of the van walls except where there is no air gap. In those places I just use the Polyiso alone. I am using 3/4 x 1-1/2 New Zealand Select Pine for the wood strips. I am attaching the 1/10" (not a typo) plywood to the wood strips and filling the gap between strips with Polyiso.
I’m confused! Not exactly sure how infrared light in created, but online it said that infrared light doesn’t travel through metal, so I’m not sure how it would bounce off the reflective layer on the rigid foam and out of the van through the metal exterior?
How the insulation reflective surface helps keep the interior of the van cooler is confusing. The hot metal van wall will generate heat in the form of infrared light off both the interior and external surfaces of the wall. Once the light bounces off the reflective layer it is reabsorbed into the interior surface of the van wall. This heats up the van wall where some of the energy is radiated back to the reflective layer but some of it is radiated outside of the van. This process heats up the van wall but keeps most of the heat outside of the van interior. I hope this helps. If not I will try again.
Don’t have to try again, I will take your word for it, but could you address why you didn’t consider closed cell spray foam insulation? From the videos I have watched I know that spray foam can be tricky to apply because of the potential to bow/warp the exterior metal if not applied in several light coats, and that it can be costly. It is lightweight, has a good R value, and can prevent heat/cold transfer (conduction I think) from the metal van ribs to 8020 extruded aluminum cabinets. I was seriously considering attaching the 8020 directly to the metal ribs with a small plastic spacer to prevent conduction and then spray walls/ceiling with spray foam, then install the wiring by making channels in the spray foam, and use your flooring system, but now I’m having 2nd thought and thinking of using your system because you are the smartest one on TH-cam!
I really didn't consider using spray foam because it just seems like a mess and I am a neatness freak. I don't know about being the smartest one on TH-cam but I really am very happy with the solution I used on our van. We are impressed by how quiet it is when we have to camp near a highway.
I didn't get how you fix the EPS/XPS panel to Thinsulate .. only with spray glue? Or do you cut the panels exactly to stay pressed in the wooden frame? Or something else? Also considering that Thinsulate doesn't have to be compressed, not to lose its properties. Thanks 😊
The composite panels are not attached to the Thinsulate. I bolted furring strips made of .75" x 1.5" New Zealand Select Pine to the van walls using Rivnuts. These wooden furring strips gave me a material I could use to screw the panels to the walls. I used lighter weight PVC moulding glued to the ceiling to secure panels to the ceiling. I only applied EPS material to the 10th inch plywood between the furring strips to minimize the thickness of the walls and ceiling. The furring strips provide a little bit of insulation compared to screwing directly to the van sheet metal.
I think this comment is for my solar panel install video (th-cam.com/video/Gns9KaAAecg/w-d-xo.html). I looked it up and the Velcro I am using is recommended for temperatures between 0°F to 150°F. While moving the temperature will never get that high and that is when there is the highest tensile stress. The panels may get above 150°F while parked (I'll check it the next time I'm in Moab) but that is when there is little if any tensile stress. I think I will be OK with this product but I'll let you know if it ever fails.
Its kind of crazy to think about but any warm object emits infrared light. With an infrared camera you can actually see people glow. So the infrared doesn't get through the walls of the van but the walls actually generate their on infrared light.
Lots of great ultralite ideas, Just the kind of ideas I have been looking for to keep the build weight down. I have been looking at Promaster 1500's because they tend to be available at a lower price but building them out with all that extra wood adds to much weight.
I am glad that some of the ideas for making your van build lighter may be of use. I chose a low roof ProMaster 1500 because it has the most headroom of the available options that still fit into my garage. Good luck on your van build.
Thank you for the video and thoughtfulness in your system. Do look into the Aerogel as the other commenter mentioned its pretty fantastic stuff but is quite expensive. I have been trying o find info on the scrim vs “fuzzy” side toward the outside and reflective surface and 3M never got back to me on it. I came to the same conclusion as you that the scrim should go toward the outside but haven’t seen anyone else doing it. As well, if you are worried about the ply getting wet, look into other composites for those areas like Coosa board (brand name) or Azdel (another brand name, though Azdel also has some adhesion issues)
I know of a van builder (Humble Road) who did get a reply from 3M that the scrim goes toward the van wall and the fuzzy stuff provides an air gap so the reflective layer can be effective.
Shouldn't the metal van wall stop infrared light making reflective surfaces unnecessary? I can see where on a window covering they make sense. If a van is exposed to full sun in a hot place while boondocking a person could hang weighted sheets off the roof rails and hold down with magnets which would reflect heat and put an air gap between the van and the heated material reducing conductive heat transfer. To avoid AC I plan on having those sheets and also staying in touch with weather forecasts so I can drive to somewhere 15 degrees cooler before the heat wave arrives. And the sound deadening material is pretty heavy and adds extra labor and expense and is not necessary for boondocking or camping. Exterior panels near supports are not going to vibrate thus don't generate much road noise. Some people just cover their wheel wells and then use a little bit of material to add mass to the center of big metal panels without supports thus slightly reducing road noise where it makes the most economical sense. Maybe the walls, floor and roof in the drivers cabin make sense but most people in cars can live without it.
Infrared light being absorbed into the van roof and walls is a major source of energy heating your van. A light colored van wall will reflect much of the sun's energy from being absorbed into the metal wall. I want my van to be as hassle free as possible and hanging sheets (especially Reflectix) on the outside of the van would really help to keep the van cooler but seems like too big of a hassle. We generally don't sit in camp much during the day, we are out exploring. Yellowstone is our favorite park. I put about 25% coverage of Butyl material on the large metal panels while many sources recommend 50% coverage. I saved some weight there by using a star pattern for the material. I drove my van home from the dealer without sound deadening material on the wheel wells and the noise from rocks hitting the wheel wells was deafening so sound deadening material on the wheel wells is definitely worth it. I also added sound deadening material to the floor to try to cut down on road noise. Maybe that is overkill but I will never know. The material on the ceiling really seemed like it helped during a violent downpour. We carry passengers in the van and I would like it to be as quiet as possible.
Very nice, love the demo of the logic behind the layers :)
The system is working well. The van is very quiet to sleep in. Insulating the back doors has helped a bunch.
@@fivepoundpete Your system really inspired me to get creative and layer materials with reflection and absorption in mind. Thanks to your video, I really thought through what both sound and heat do as they pass through various materials. Thanks again!
Your welcome. Good luck on your build.
I appreciated your video. You gave me some great ideas.
I hope you are able to make your van build light and warm!
Excellent ideas! I will use your ideas with my future van!
I have finished the walls and ceiling with this system and they are working great. I hope you find other interesting ideas for your future van build in these videos . Good luck.
I am so impressed with your build. I've been watching all your videos! If you ever want to sale your van. Let me know!!! Your doing everything right! Size and weight are my priorities.
I'm glad you like my videos and I hope they are helpful for your van build. I don't plan to sell my van anytime soon but thanks for your interest.
@@fivepoundpete Let me know if you get the bug to build others!
Sorry. No plans to build others.
Thanks for this info - can’t believe I’m one of the first subscribers - I’ll check out your other videos right away - daughter is just starting a ford transit connect xlt build - it’s tiny -
I hope these ideas are useful. Good luck on her van build.
I know this is a clickbait title, but if you want the best insulation system ever, you need to define your metric. by environmental impact, you would use cork. Its renewable, fire resistant, hydrophobic, carbon negative and has an R value of 4 per inch. if you want the best by pure R value, vacuum panels at R60 per inch or aerogel at R20 per inch. you can get 8mm aerogel thermawrap blanket effectively R5.5. Aerogel is 99.99% air. It is 4 times more insulating than thinsulate. You can buy 40x3ft roll for $1200. its hydrophilic, easy to work with and you can use it to cover windows while still allowing light in. With that said I applaud you on your thoughtful system. Some good ideas there!
Yes, clickbait. I appreciate your feedback. Weight is high on my list of criteria and materials that are readily available. I am not familiar with aerogel and will look into it. I am always looking for new materials.
I used cork! Love it in the summer and winter🎉
Big money comfortable for the rich I'm sure.
Yes and no for cork; yes it is a renewable ressources but we use already too much for the crrent trees ability. also it can not be flexible enough to be easily slide in between ribs. Aerogel is not affordable. I would need like 200sqft so close to 2000$
Cabot Thermal Wrap is almost identical to Aspen's aerogel blanket materials (the patent expired). This is the same material as the stuff used in Toasty Feet insoles, POE aerogel sleeping pads, and Burton ski jackets.
I hit like the moment I saw Pete
Thanks.
@@fivepoundpete you’re welcome :)
😊
Hi Pete, excellent videos! I especially love the fiberglass floor. It’s one of a kind and brilliant! I have a question for you: why didn’t you use lizard skin ceramic insulation? It’s lightweight and seems to produce good results. Thanks!
I'm glad you like my videos. To be honest I had never heard of lizard skin. I would need to learn more about its noise and thermal properties. I looks like it might be a good sound dampening layer compared to butyl mat for its weight. More research is needed on my part for maybe a future build. I seems like it is too dense of a material to be a good insulator compared to Thinsulate. It also looks like a real mess to install. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Hi Pete, I went to look at the Pro Select R-Matte Plus Foam Boards and they have a paper backing on one side (foil on the other). Did you peel the paper off or leave it? If left, did it have any effect on the lamination?
I went to look at the new material and my local Home Depot no longer carries it. My foam board had a plastic backing that I pealed off before gluing to my plywood. If the new material has a paper backing, that would be even better than the plastic for stiffness. Good luck on your van build.
What's the reason that you glue the black side of your Thinsulate to the van metal, as appose to the white side?
Also, in your wall insulation steps, at what point do you do your rough wiring?
Two main reasons to glue the backing side of Thinsulate to the van wall, 1) the backing helps to deaden the vibration of the wall panels to reduce noise, and 2) the batting provides an airgap to allow heat to reflect off the foil layer of the rigid foam insulation back to the outside of the van.
I ran the wiring after the Thinsulate was installed to keep the wiring away from the metal walls to protect it. I used the metal channels of the van for some of the wiring and protected the wires with loom.
@@fivepoundpete Thanks, this is all very helpful. 3 questions:
It looks like van in the background of your video, you Thinsulate everywhere, except over the ribs of your van. Is that true?
It also looks like you are attaching wood strips on the ribs of your van. What is the thickness of those wood strips?
Are you attaching the 1/2" Polyiso - 1/4" plywood - fabric layer on top of the wood strips, over all areas of your walls?
Thanks
I put Thinsulate over all of the metal of the van walls except where there is no air gap. In those places I just use the Polyiso alone. I am using 3/4 x 1-1/2 New Zealand Select Pine for the wood strips. I am attaching the 1/10" (not a typo) plywood to the wood strips and filling the gap between strips with Polyiso.
I’m confused! Not exactly sure how infrared light in created, but online it said that infrared light doesn’t travel through metal, so I’m not sure how it would bounce off the reflective layer on the rigid foam and out of the van through the metal exterior?
How the insulation reflective surface helps keep the interior of the van cooler is confusing. The hot metal van wall will generate heat in the form of infrared light off both the interior and external surfaces of the wall. Once the light bounces off the reflective layer it is reabsorbed into the interior surface of the van wall. This heats up the van wall where some of the energy is radiated back to the reflective layer but some of it is radiated outside of the van. This process heats up the van wall but keeps most of the heat outside of the van interior. I hope this helps. If not I will try again.
Don’t have to try again, I will take your word for it, but could you address why you didn’t consider closed cell spray foam insulation? From the videos I have watched I know that spray foam can be tricky to apply because of the potential to bow/warp the exterior metal if not applied in several light coats, and that it can be costly. It is lightweight, has a good R value, and can prevent heat/cold transfer (conduction I think) from the metal van ribs to 8020 extruded aluminum cabinets. I was seriously considering attaching the 8020 directly to the metal ribs with a small plastic spacer to prevent conduction and then spray walls/ceiling with spray foam, then install the wiring by making channels in the spray foam, and use your flooring system, but now I’m having 2nd thought and thinking of using your system because you are the smartest one on TH-cam!
I really didn't consider using spray foam because it just seems like a mess and I am a neatness freak. I don't know about being the smartest one on TH-cam but I really am very happy with the solution I used on our van. We are impressed by how quiet it is when we have to camp near a highway.
I didn't get how you fix the EPS/XPS panel to Thinsulate .. only with spray glue? Or do you cut the panels exactly to stay pressed in the wooden frame? Or something else? Also considering that Thinsulate doesn't have to be compressed, not to lose its properties. Thanks 😊
The composite panels are not attached to the Thinsulate. I bolted furring strips made of .75" x 1.5" New Zealand Select Pine to the van walls using Rivnuts. These wooden furring strips gave me a material I could use to screw the panels to the walls. I used lighter weight PVC moulding glued to the ceiling to secure panels to the ceiling. I only applied EPS material to the 10th inch plywood between the furring strips to minimize the thickness of the walls and ceiling. The furring strips provide a little bit of insulation compared to screwing directly to the van sheet metal.
I’m worried that the adhesive on your velcro isn’t rated for the heat it will be exposed to.
I think this comment is for my solar panel install video (th-cam.com/video/Gns9KaAAecg/w-d-xo.html). I looked it up and the Velcro I am using is recommended for temperatures between 0°F to 150°F. While moving the temperature will never get that high and that is when there is the highest tensile stress. The panels may get above 150°F while parked (I'll check it the next time I'm in Moab) but that is when there is little if any tensile stress. I think I will be OK with this product but I'll let you know if it ever fails.
how is the ifrared getting through the metal walls of the van?
Its kind of crazy to think about but any warm object emits infrared light. With an infrared camera you can actually see people glow. So the infrared doesn't get through the walls of the van but the walls actually generate their on infrared light.
Lots of great ultralite ideas, Just the kind of ideas I have been looking for to keep the build weight down. I have been looking at Promaster 1500's because they tend to be available at a lower price but building them out with all that extra wood adds to much weight.
I am glad that some of the ideas for making your van build lighter may be of use. I chose a low roof ProMaster 1500 because it has the most headroom of the available options that still fit into my garage. Good luck on your van build.
Thank you for the video and thoughtfulness in your system. Do look into the Aerogel as the other commenter mentioned its pretty fantastic stuff but is quite expensive. I have been trying o find info on the scrim vs “fuzzy” side toward the outside and reflective surface and 3M never got back to me on it. I came to the same conclusion as you that the scrim should go toward the outside but haven’t seen anyone else doing it. As well, if you are worried about the ply getting wet, look into other composites for those areas like Coosa board (brand name) or Azdel (another brand name, though Azdel also has some adhesion issues)
I know of a van builder (Humble Road) who did get a reply from 3M that the scrim goes toward the van wall and the fuzzy stuff provides an air gap so the reflective layer can be effective.
Shouldn't the metal van wall stop infrared light making reflective surfaces unnecessary? I can see where on a window covering they make sense. If a van is exposed to full sun in a hot place while boondocking a person could hang weighted sheets off the roof rails and hold down with magnets which would reflect heat and put an air gap between the van and the heated material reducing conductive heat transfer. To avoid AC I plan on having those sheets and also staying in touch with weather forecasts so I can drive to somewhere 15 degrees cooler before the heat wave arrives.
And the sound deadening material is pretty heavy and adds extra labor and expense and is not necessary for boondocking or camping. Exterior panels near supports are not going to vibrate thus don't generate much road noise. Some people just cover their wheel wells and then use a little bit of material to add mass to the center of big metal panels without supports thus slightly reducing road noise where it makes the most economical sense. Maybe the walls, floor and roof in the drivers cabin make sense but most people in cars can live without it.
Infrared light being absorbed into the van roof and walls is a major source of energy heating your van. A light colored van wall will reflect much of the sun's energy from being absorbed into the metal wall. I want my van to be as hassle free as possible and hanging sheets (especially Reflectix) on the outside of the van would really help to keep the van cooler but seems like too big of a hassle. We generally don't sit in camp much during the day, we are out exploring. Yellowstone is our favorite park.
I put about 25% coverage of Butyl material on the large metal panels while many sources recommend 50% coverage. I saved some weight there by using a star pattern for the material. I drove my van home from the dealer without sound deadening material on the wheel wells and the noise from rocks hitting the wheel wells was deafening so sound deadening material on the wheel wells is definitely worth it.
I also added sound deadening material to the floor to try to cut down on road noise. Maybe that is overkill but I will never know. The material on the ceiling really seemed like it helped during a violent downpour. We carry passengers in the van and I would like it to be as quiet as possible.