No kidding - It’s unfortunate that vans built with marble counters and stone walls get more recognition than something with good engineering and solid craftsmanship.
Everything this man said is the gospel truth. My biggest "van life" peeve is watching guys use 3/4" plywood on everything like they're building a kitchen cabinet for a house.
I had my van builders in 2018 use 1/4" cedar tongue and groove on the ceiling and 1/4" finished birch panels on the walls. Lightweight. It's been 5 years... no regrets there. Regrets > I had the bed built to be a twin short 39"X69". I should have had a full size bed built, still short but wider.
Most folk are just copying and pasting what they see done else where. Personally, I don’t see why there would be a need for all that wood being used as walls
Really liked your comparison of wood vs 80-20 for weight and space savings. Another factor is the cost of the 80-20 rails, hardware and corner pcs./ braces. As a retired aerospace machinist I have an affinity to working with aluminum but I love the look and feel of wood and the ability to make it conform to your design. Another thought on the drawer slide issue is to add a layer or two of UHMW tape to the sliding surfaces. Extremely thin and light weight and replaceable if worn out. Thanks for your video.
Agreed, also parts count matters. I built things for a living and every corner or end point adds costs since it needs to be measured and cut requiring thought and labor. KISS.
I'm a cabinetmaker and I've done 4 van conversions. There are two major issues that seem to be ignored by van builders - the first one is the weight of the cabinets and your comments here are very good. The other issue is one of ergonomics - how often I've seen seating, particularly bench seats with a vertical backrest and a flat base - not in any way comfortable.
@@3jcb123 110° between seat & backrest not 90°. Angle the base to match the height - it should not lift your feet off the floor but should support both front & back. Experiment with clamps & bits of board to see if you can refine it to suit yourself better. (More upright & higher seat for working or eating, less upright for relaxing).
@@WizzRacing The results of your attention to ergonomics will benefit all who use the benches. Hopefully, they will appreciate all that you have invested in creating quality.
As a craftsman who also builds out Adventure Vehicles, I can honestly say…this person is so accurate and spot on with their information on good construction techniques for lightweight cabinets. Only thing I could add is to use nylon glides for those wood drawers.
@@nagualdesign You will always need some kind of latches or other drawer securing technique. You can't make a drawer så hard to slide that it is road safe and at the same time make it usable. I mean you can manage it by luck or only driving really carefully but if you are going on an adventure, there will be some tough movement.
This is basically how aircraft are designed to minimize weight. You have thin aluminum skin over thicker aluminum ribs that carry compressive load. You could go farther and make your cabinet panels out of fabric stretched over a wood frame, like old airplanes, but use like cuben fiber. At 12:58 you can see you have effectively created I-beams, C-beams for the side panels which are standard profiles for efficient rigidity. Nice Moonboard.
Years ago I built a teardrop trailer. I wanted to build light, but things kept adding up and it turned out to be a heavy beast. I wish I could have watched a video like this before starting out. The regret of building heavy lasts as long as you own it. 😐
Thank you. I am in the midst of doing a van build out for a person who wants do use it for Occasional camping/ living quarters. I just installed the framework for the Beds whose height can be adjusted by a Motor. As I finish writing this I realize I could have done that better, and set myself up for the next phase which is Area to secure Wall panels and cabinets. Funny thing is it was likely plan number five that are used to install the bedframe. It is strong and will work but now I see a better way. That is what I got from your video. The problem-solving creative process is beautiful, rewarding, frustrating, and time consuming. But if you keep doing it, you will find a way. And don't be swayed by those who minimize What you do and try to get you to do it for less. Likely you are only getting paid for 60 to 90 % of your time anyway. Communicate clearly. Learn to say no. Keep as accurate of a log as you can. Even though that does get in the way of FLOW. Then perhaps realize if you had a safe place to sleep last night, and a good meal today, You are a fortunate person.
I've just completed a pre-trade joinery course, and although I enjoy working with "real" wood, I'm convinced you can do heaps with thin ply for cabinets. When I see TH-camr van builders use 3/4" and 1/2" ply for all the cabinets...and them soft close, heavy duty drawer runners - the weight of it all😮 This guy is a master at creating beautiful, strong, lightweight cabinetry.
I've been refining my cabinet building over the years and my latest slide-on camper fitout is near identical. Mostly 3mm and 6mm oly with a little 9mm in places, no drawer slides, maximum space. I also reinforce some thin jounts with an epoxy fillet like a wooden boat/canoe builder which adds to the strength enormously if needed. I did document one of my builds once and got a huge amount of abuse from the haters believing it would never be as strong as alloy or sheetmetal stuff and couldn't possibly last. Not only does this video explain why wood done well can be very good but it's also great to read so many comments from people supporting his ideas. Now if only someone could recognise this in the stuff im trying to sell. No-one wants it 😢
This video is packed with an incredible wealth of valuable information on building strong, light-weight cabinets for a van. Everything was well reasoned and supported with solid data. I'm totally convinced. I wonder how many people, if any, build cabinets like this for vans. Very impressive.
I used to build seaworthy sailboat furniture out of mahogany and teak veneered plywoods and solids. Once the plywood furniture was fiberglassed to the hull it was almost indestructible. You overloaded it up with canning and all the stuff you need and it withheld everything through any storm. Wood is solid when used properly and much prettier!😊
You gotta love people who are so committed to improving their craft, and attaining such a high level of craft performance. Phenomenal presentation. Thanks for sharing with the van/truck conversion community.
It boils down to that: Plywood (whatever kind) has one weakness. Bending and warping along the flat surface. And you counter that by putting other plywood perpendicular to that surface. Fairly easy if you understand it. Also, aluminium (yes, I'm European) is lightweight but it's still a metal... Sure all the joinery is skilled labour which Joe Average wouldn't be able to pull off by themselves. But you either take your time in doing it or hire a professional, like this one, to do it for you (or exploit a friend with these skills 😅)
I've been around cabinet makers and carpenters most of my life and this man knows his stuff he looks young but has the knowledge and skills of a 100 yr + cabinet maker, and as for his designs and techniques spot friggin on ! And an old school trick to help wood on wood to slide was to take bar soap yes any kind of bar soap and rub every edge and flat piece of wood cause the soap will help it slide like as if it was on super greasy sliders, trust this man hell yes and as for strength of these cabinets I'm 240 pounds and they would support me times 2 so yes dam good job sir ! And actually given some ideas on how to make a few cool designs for my build, and btw thanks for speeding up editing on the snoring part math part 🤣 thanks again and love your work please keep it coming !!
My thoughts are that you are correct, light is right. However we built our conversion with thin wall welded steel square box, with 3mm ply screwed to the frame. Two reasons for this. 1. This is my skill set! 2. Crash protection. Wooden cabinets perform very badly in a crash situation and you will end up with that fridge in the back of your head in a head on. Steel frame bolted to the chassis is better for this in my mind. I know it’s worse case scenario but you spend 95% of the time parked when weight does not matter. So like you say do what suits you. Your cabinets are beautiful and thanks so much for taking the time to share your skills. 🏴🏴🏴
It's about time someone made a video like this. I framed my cabinets from 80/20, but had a friend who is an excellent woodworker help me with the wood aspects. He had never worked with 80/20 before and had some similar thoughts that you shared. At the end of the day he indicated that, as an experienced woodworker with a garage full of woodworking tools, he could beat an 80/20 design on weight and space efficiency. But he also said the average guy probably could not, and his wood designs would not match the 80/20 strength in the event of a vehicle accident. I would be interested in experimenting with an 80/20 carcass but some lightweight wood elements internally (where the high strength is not needed) for things like drawer slide mounts, drawer latch beams, etc to save material, weight and cost. Thanks for the video.
with 8020 you either need to do proper calculation before ordering extrusions or you'll need some tools (e.g. mitersaw and thread tapers), the cost of a mistake is high. The other thing is vibration that can make all screws unscrew (so you have to apply a threadlocker). I built a small bed frame for a highlander out of 8020 (10 series), and it is heavy as hell probably around 45-50 lb (but super solid I have to admit). Next time I will build out of plywood or plywood laminated foam, cost of all those bolts and nuts adds up and the build becomes quite expensive. For a case of an accident I would prefer something less heavy even if you anchor it properly.
“… in the event of an accident …” No matter 8020 hold… as long as the kitchen sink don’t fly through my skull when I brake in an emergency, wood cabinet will be enough. When driving around with your house in the back, you can’t expect the crash test rating of a modern commuter car.
What about humidity? The wood expands and contracts with weather and humidity. Is it still durable and sturdy? I'm thinking of having a van one day and I'm looking at all options for storage materials, affordability and practical.
@@raquelkhadiri162 in my experience expansion is not an issue. If you were building the gaps so tight a layer of paint would stop it working maybe expansion would be a problem but the sort of gaps us mere mortals can manage there's plenty of room for expansion.
@@raquelkhadiri162 where humidity _is_ a problem is the glues they use to make plywood - interior grade plywood won't cope with a winter in a van, the glue dissolves & leaves all the layers to separate. Use "WBP", "exterior" or "marine" plywood & if you can get them to admit what glue they're using phenolic or melamine are the best.
I really like your approach, a good friend of mine owns a yacht wood supply company (Seafarer Marine of Ft. Lauderdale) that uses a vacuum table to veneer many panels. They produce lightweight stable panels for high-quality joinery work. I really admire your skills as a cabinet-making carpenter.
G'Day Mate, in the Australian Van/boating scene I use thin TEFLON stips top and bottom on all draws instead of wood on wood. it works just as good as bearing runners and no space taken up, no weight and cheap. I can pull my very heavy draws out with my little finger. Look for pure industrial use teflon works a treat. When I came up with this idea I rubbed slides with soap or wax put this didnt work for long as a Chef working with those slippery plastic cutting boards i cut one into stipes ...Hey BINGO. Goodluck from Rob in OZ
@@jasonhendrickson2289 Yea, exactly. The skill and tools (look at his shop) required are not really DIY. I am pretty handy generally, but even if I had his shop I doubt I could build those cabinets unfortunately. Beautiful stuff tho.
I meant total weight. You do a great job of your unit v. a unit with 80/20. I am seeing builds get heavier and heavier with highly decorative interiors and endless exterior add-ons.
I’ve been a traditional woodworker my whole life, but I have not seen a presentation regarding Poplar core plywood as thorough as yours. I am planning to build a gypsy Vardo and will be definitely sourcing some of this plywood for cabinetry. Thanks a ton.
Wow! I can’t believe how much I learned from you about math, wood, building cabinets, finishing….I want to build out a ProMaster City - I know my exact layout but since I am a senior woman with no building skills 🙁 I wish I could find someone like you who knows what they are doing! This video is one of the most enjoyable on the details of building that I’ve watched - thank you for shooting it!
It is a lot of work so it is hard to find a friend who is willing to do it but with the rise in popularity of vanlife, there are plenty of companies that do van builds. Check around in your area but make sure you check the reviews of the companies so you don't hire some low skilled ones.
Great video. I have used mdf for over 40 years and never had a problem. Ply is harder to work with. However, you need to use thicker mdf than 6 mm. I don't fingerprint because once the structure is established and glued, they are very strong. The strength comes from the draw bottom.
OMG! My friends think I'm crazy for obsessing over a few pounds of weight.... I have a new hero! 🙂 Awesome work my friend! Understanding stresses vs function is so lacking in most builds... Building several homebuilt airplanes, I became obsessed with weight; the easiest variable to trim.... I considered 80/20 for a new van, as I had seen some nice builds, but always noticed unusable space as an additional penalty to weight. I have built a minimalist Odyssey van, with all the comforts of a big RV, except for standing room, and still maintained the 23mpg highway mileage. My dream is to build a long wheelbase hi-roof Ford Transit, tasteful in presentation, but opulent only in function, and preserve the potential gas mileage and safety margin of a lighter vehicle, still capable of a reasonable trailer tow. A most duplicatable & saleable proposition.... I must come up and visit you! Hands down, the best I've seen. Keep up the good work and videos. Oh and take a break to enjoy your handiwork too!
OMG! My friends think I'm crazy for obsessing over a few pounds of weight #metoo - but I learned a harsh lesson 23 years ago - now on my build I'm watching every gram - even on my cutlery!
I've spent a lot of time living in vans, and camping along the Pan American highway visiting the rigs of other travelers. The one thing I heard over and over was to cut every ounce off your rig possible. I don't think I ever met anyone who said they wished they'd bought a bigger rig, but I met many who wished they'd bought smaller and lighter and not thrown so much junk on their rig. Simple and light is the trick for long term success.
Thank you so much for this very educational video. Lightweight is what I was looking for to re-organize my little fibreglass camper. There is so much wasted space and not enough storage for me and my dog/cat/tortoise/yarn/fabric.
I agree 100% I feel that no one takes weight into account when building out their Van. I love to work with wood and I was considering using 2020 for my van. You have given me a lot to think about now. I have been remodeling an RV and after taking things apart I have a new respect for weight savings. I can’t wait to start my build … again.
Haha. I think weight is talked about a lot but not is done much about it. First video: "You want to make sure your van isn't too heavy." Every video after: "watch me build a 4000 lb conversion."
@@projectofscience I subscribed I will watch all of your videos. But I will most likely build out of wood instead of Aluminum or I might combine i.e. Cabinets and such out of wood, Bed/bench out of Aluminum. Best of both.
I am no carpenter, nor cabinetmaker, but I am building an interior for my 5' X 10' cargo-to-camper-trailer conversion. A goal is to use exclusively baltic birch ply for everything in the trailer. Galley shelves, cabinets, drawers, bunk/storage... I started with 1/4" (6mm?) baltic birch that I have finished with clear shellac for all of the walls and interior door skins and have become enamored with it. I had planned to use 1/2" (12 or 13mm) baltic birch for the bunk structure (fixed, with storage underneath)... but what I may do is go to more 1/4" and beef the edges against bending (and for "beam") w/ strips of 1/2" as you utilize in your AMAZING cabinet work. I was so tickled to watch this video I nearly sheetmahpaynts. I love it. THANK you for sharing your craftsmanship with us. I have subscribed.
Had been so convinced on the usage of 8020 that until I watched your video. Absolutely sold on your take of why wood is the better option and all the points you raised were absolutely valid. You can't imagine how happy my girlfriend is now that I too wish to make it in wood. Would be great if you would share more on your construction techniques even though you've shared some great insights in this video. All the best in your TH-cam channel!!!
There are many woodworking channels that cover the basics, this guy made the important points on how to keep it light and beautiful, dont ask more of him...
I built with 1" insulation board because of weight, and safety in an accident. My space lost was more than yours, and it's definitely not as polished, but even in a rollover catastrophic accident, I'm not having a javelin in my head. Don't see enough people recognize this. Anything heavy is stored low. Each piece is held in place by direct attachment and by friction fit (like puzzle pieces). You are an amazing craftsperson, and your maths and sciences are much better than my reasoning, but I felt a kinship in seeing something most people ignore. Thanks!
As a long time wood worker I have to commend you on this video. You have made some really good points here that so many people who do van builds should learn. Keep up the great work you are doing!
The list of benefits he rattled off are not theoretical. As an engineer that used to race cars, and now drives a van, I can assure you these measures make for a safer, more enjoyable, and more off-road capable ride. Ever wonder why you always see RVs on the side of the road changing a tire? Weight. (Ok and aged tires). Ditch the giant bumper and other off-road ornaments as well. Stellar job on those finger jointed 1/4 ply drawer boxes - not easy.
There is a significant termite population in my area. For my RV revamp, I chose 80/20 for that reason. I used synthetics for hydronic flooring and panels.
Thank you for your consideration of weight! I am using a hybrid combination of aluminum angle, wood and plastic, though your approach is having me reevaluate some of my choices. My biggest limit is tools and workshop space - I've built jigs, etc., to make my hand tools more accurate, yet some of your craftsmanship is beyond my capabilities. Another consideration that occupies my worries is prompted by watching the (few) RV crash test videos. Lighter is much better in a crash, almost always. Your explanation of forces is very helpful when imagining a crash. Thank you!
I really needed and loved this video. I'm an aviation enthusiast, model airplane builder, and also I build my own furniture at home (used a lot of MDF for cabinets, and build a sofa and some nests with 10mm and 15mm plywood). I'm planning to build a campervan in the future, so I'm watching lots of videos. I've been seeing camper van builders using 15mm MDF and lots of heavy accessories, or even using 15mm plywood on anythng. That really annoys me, because MDF is very dense and when you have something moving you want it to be as light as possible due to performance, driving dynamics, safety, fuel economy, better range, less pollution, saving tires, saving shocks, staying in max gross weight and so on. I've been thinking in ways to save weight and this video confirmed all my ideas and gave me dozens more to work on.
Wooden drawer slides are fantastic, look at any old school cabinetry! Like you said the weight savings just eliminating drawer slides is considerable, plus there's space savings and huge cost savings as well! You can also design them to eliminate drawer locks as well; this was done on a lot of vintage campers and boats. Anyway, great video, and great points!
The elimination of drawer locks, is going to depend entirely on the expected use case of the vehicle. If you only expect to drive on pavement, or well graded gravel roads? It's probably fine. But the moment you think or believe that you will go out exploring on logging roads, or remote access roads, or anywhere that the road isn't graded, yearly? You are still going to want latched drawers and cabinets. The vibration and impacts will dislodge pretty much any lip or friction based retention. As always, it is important to understand the limits of the mechanisms you use in making whatever it is you make. For a lot of people? The lip, or friction based retention will work flawlessly.
@@scottgoldmarble7509 I'll contradict that assertion. I sold high level catering equipment for over 20 years - all van based. I ragged my vans to within an inch of their lives around the lanes of the Cotswold hills. - $300 knives sat on shelves and never moved! (they were on non slip mats but no other retaining.) Another point in case: 50 years ago a dear friend of mine left his brew on the A frame of his trailer - 47 miles later he got home - tea was cold but still sat where he'd put it - and If as TTT says it'll work for boats.......
@@CosmicSeeker69 I did say it is probably fine on pavement and well graded gravel roads. I'm not sure what the roads of Cotswold are like, but they are clearly better maintained than many of the logging roads I know of, here in B.C. Canada. Often times you will be dodging potholes that are 2-6 inches deep, or running into washboard so bad, you have to slow down or you will lose control of your vehicle. When you hit roads like that? It doesn't matter how good of a non-slip mat you have, things are going to move, because they are going to not be in contact with the mat. Things will start bouncing around.
I'm not a good enough woodworker to build like you do, but I do agree that it is the correct way to do it. One thing you might want to look into is making "sliderails" under your drawers from PTFE sheets, you can find them thin as paper and hoe thick you need. I had a scrap pice I put under a wooden box that sometimes would bind, and now it feels like it is on lubricated rails
I used 10-series 80/20. I liked working with it. Like advanced legos.I liked it for framing up my heavier items, like 29 gallon interior water tank, water heater, and batteries. It has been rock solid for 6 years now. That said I only used it for base cabinets. All upper cabinets are soft fabric. Great video though. I agree that 15-series is totally overkill.
....and I gotta look into this vacuum-veneering thing.....I'm also rebuilding my home into a MCM design and plan to build my own slab-door kitchen cabinetry (or, at least, just the doors on pre-made box carcasses), of walnut --- obviously, b/c of $, just walnut veneer!😮
This is great. I built a Ford Econoline into a camper when I was 16. I've been a carpenter virtually my whole life. Now I am (waiting for the snow to go away and weather to warm a bit) renovating a 14 foot travel trailer that I NEVER should have bought just so I can get rid of it and move on to what I really want to do, which is to build my own trailer on top of a flat bed. At the same time I'm putting together a workshop, since we just now got into a house with a two-car garage. So I have a lot to do and will probably never reach your level. But if the trailer build goes well I may go into van conversions/trailer builds as a way to bring in some cash, and something to do during retirement. This is all good information I can use to reach that goal. PLUS I can see you're a climber and biker... two of my passions as well. Cheers dude, and thanks!
Damn man! I thought I had a lot going on. I'm a pretty miserable aluminum welder but that has been a curiosity of mine: build a super lightweight travel trailer. Thanks you!
Excellent video. Your reasoning is not too different from what I have seen at companies that make cabinets for business jets. You won’t find any 3/4 plywood or 80/20 there either!
Super video!! I'm actually building an RV in a mercedes MB100 from the 90's.. the engine has only +-100 lbft of torque(hope the conversion is right) . Here also everything gets built in poplar 4, 6, 10 mm multiplex. Total mass of the furniture expected to be under 90 kg. And it is a must to keep the ride pleasant.
Thank you for this video. I purchased and returned Ikea Kitchen units. Ikea units were too heavy and had metal/steel drawer runners, Forming the draw side. I bought and returned EVO-Designed kitchen units (A Wareham UK company). They were cut out of 12mm Lightweight Plywood. Again they had metal/Aluminium drawer runners/sides. ( Forming the draw side). The finish on the cut edges was poor. Now I require a kitchen unit for my van conversion and I will have to manufacture it from your design. I have taken screenshots.
At random came across this video, and I have to say finally someone that build like my dad and later me use to do for cabinets and furniture when we converted vans for our own use. I never understood why we always made it work in wood so much thinner than what I see everyone on TH-cam build in. Thank you for making a nice and very clear explanation I can point people to when they refuse to believe things can be build strong using less thickness!
Very impressive and informative. Didn’t know what to think of the 8020 frames for cabinets. Now I do! Still they could be useful for floor frames on expansive deck… Only competitive lightweight cabinets would be foamies. They are very lightweight & easy to cut. However precision cuts can be difficult & is time consuming due to having to let the resin coating on fabrics, veneers, screens & thin plywoods which strengthen the foam cabinets takes time to cure.
From the get go. “I hope this creates a discussion more than battling words.” Instant subscription my man. Awesome video, always wanted to build my own, thank you so much! Awesome work!
I'm a metal worker by trade and my first option would be the ali extrusions, however, after watching this my mind has been changed, plus you got a subscriber.
I have no plans of building a camper van, but this video really makes me want to start one - and get you to build the cabinets for it! I absolutely love your way of thinking, using every little scrap of space and making things a light, while very strong, as possible.
I'm very impressed with your analysis. Cabinet structure, drawer and slides all add weight and decrease space utilization. When I looked at 80/20, reached similar conclusions to you. Heavy weight and lower utilization. Many builds with 80/20 look very space wasteful. You cabinetry skills and forethought are admirable. This is my first video of your channel. It will have be browsing around to find more here. Nicely done!
Fantastic Knowledge & Experience. i love building like this & this wisdom is astronomically underrated !! i use this ultralight & strong const. with an all-season micro trail camper that converts from 2wheel cart to sled (i'm 1st time viewer, now subscribed)
Thanks for your important video about light wight cabinets and the comparison of extruded aluminum profiles. Very helpful! You helped to economize my time!
Very important information as a lot vans are actually overloaded. Another alternative would be using AL honey comb panels, though expensive and not as easy to join as wood..and its known that woodworkers often do not like working with metal!
As a lifelong cabinet maker. I got to say Well done." It seems nowadays even with CNC control cutting people don't understand the benefits of accuracy and gluing components to create strength. Happy to see your video. I'll be watching more.
This is amazing and super helpful for anyone trying to decide what material to use for the van. I never really understood the 80/20 fad for cabinetry, plus it’s so expensive. Great video
And, time consuming- bc once you've cut the frame and screwed it together- making sure that you have threaded all the brackets on first, you still have the job of panelling it all.
EXCELLENT Finally someone who understands load and structure, and the weight/fuel issue. I am a retired Cabinet Maker and doing similar in my VW Crafter.
This is GREAT stuff. The weight savings of poplar plywood is significant, and the material I will be using for some upcoming work van racking systems. Your comment below on the Incra box joint jig is VERY helpful, as I didn't know it existed. I will likely use 1/2" ply for various drawers (much heavier contents than in a conversion van) but the box joints greatly increase the strength. I would love to see a video of you making some of these drawers.
Thank you! I'll keep it in mind for a future video about the drawers. For a work van I'd definitely not recommend a lot of the content of this video....or at least when I think of my days of using a work van or truck.
Thanks for this! You’ve validated a lot of my concerns/observations regarding extruded aluminum. And I love your simple cabinets/drawers. My old kitchen has simple drawers without metal slides and they work great even after 50 years. Definitely going to try this for my next build. 👍
Don’t give up on 8020 just because 99.99% of the builders using it have absolutely no structural engineering background but want you to think they’re a master of 8020 so they can make money off your clicks. It’s a lot easier to fake being a master of 8020 then it is to fake being a master cabinet maker. Most of these people don’t even know what a grade 8 bolt is.
More expensive, but stronger and lighter for a given dimension, is Coosa board. I haven’t built with it myself but it is used extensively in the boat building industry. Another option, if one has the tools, is 1/16” (approx) aluminum with the same dimensional properties as the plywood and no susceptibility to moisture like wood. All that said, this man’s cabinets are fantastic!
This is freakin' awesome. So, the northwest for Poplar plywood. I can see me ending up with plastic rubber maid tubs bunggeed to the wall, though. But if I go for wood build, it will be as light as possible.
Definitely a smart - bordering on brilliant approach. One thing you could consider using for drawer slides are thin strips of Teflon as bearing surfaces. This way, if there is any expansion or contraction due to humidity, the Teflon might allow for those variances in the dimensions where the drawers meet the carcass. Great job!
That was so informative and well presented. This is a MUST view for anyone contemplating building the most lightweight cabinets for their conversion. Those with the tools and skills will find this invaluable. Thank you for putting this together and sharing your knowledge.
So many van converters use ply that is too thick and too heavy and replicate their cabinets at home. That’s fine if you don’t have to move your home around! It’s about time van converters realised that caravan manufacturers (especially in the uk), use a framework and then clad in 3mm ply in most cases because our caravans need to be towed about. I’m using framework in mine.
I often see pretty custom builds and the first problem i see is they're overweight on the axles /suspension. So valuable to mention space considerations too on 8020 vs wood formed to sides pillars, taking up too much space and aesthetically clunky lego looking in the end. Thanks for the great stress / sheer tips on thinner wood.two thumbs for your methods. Liking your great wood shop too.
it is good that you highlight the benefits of saving weight and space, something I have worked with but with different materials, that we find can be an alternative to ply.
Great info! I always thought that 80/20 was massive overkill, structurally. Only a couple of things in a van deserve that much support - the bed, and possibly one side of a couch. I always thought that a hybrid approach might be better. Take an example from Gl*ck - they're 90% plastic, with just a few reinforcing pieces of metal that give the frames and body extreme rigidity while not weighing very much. I'll be making my second conversion later this year, and I'm exploring using angle brackets and flat pieces in strategic locations to get the bending and torsion aspects under control. The bed will still probably be 80/20 ( #1 son is 6'6" and needs the support ). For overhead cabinets, two angle brackets should be quite sufficient - possibly only one. After all- the van's roof is pretty rigid, already. I like your drawers not needing glides - virtually ALL the old furniture we have in our house does not have fancy drawer glides. Saving the space and weight is a great idea. Finally - one can paint those "boring" poplar in various ways to add interest.
I've grown to love a similar style of building. I'm not nearly at your level (love your work) but plan to get there. Light is so important, heavy breeds heavy. I do use epoxy for imperfect joints and build in curves to panels where possible for strength from the curve itself. Please do a video on laminating, that is a great idea that I had discarded due to assuming it'd be too hard to do.
After watching a bunch of builds over the years - lots have promoted 80/20. As much as I wanted to use 80/20 but I ended up not using any at all on my 2 van builds (well except for about 3 feet in 2 separate locations where it was kind of nice to have the slots to install some special devices) I did use Baltic Birch - I will have to consider Poplar next time. I did not use any hardware on my drawers either. Don't need it. Thanks for the video
This is just how I was imagining making cabinets for my van, but with much more thought and expertise!! I’ve been working with wood most of my life, but this is over the top!! Now that I’m in my 70’s, it would be great to have someone do this type of work for my van! Thanks for sharing this with the general public!!!
Great info, thanks! For such an engineering geek 😂 you sure can explain things so they're easy to understand. As the owner of an old (year 2000, and 200k+ mileage but still in great shape!) hightop Econoline (set up as a bare-bones mobile office that I want to start converting into a camper van), this is super-useful food for thought. I too want to cut weight every place I can --- for one thing, my E-150 is the lightest weight capacity of the three Econoline versions --- to indulge in more desirable weight luxuries elsewhere....say, larger water tanks for more convenience. If you're familiar with the DIY Paulk portable workbench (find on TH-cam), one of which I've already made for myself & use a lot, he also espouses the strength & lighter weight of thin plywood, if you just know how to assemble it cleverly. Plus I really like the way you can contour these wood units so well to the nooks & crannies of van walls.
This dude needs more recognition....
Thank you!
No kidding - It’s unfortunate that vans built with marble counters and stone walls get more recognition than something with good engineering and solid craftsmanship.
Very informative, thank you for the post.
He is new on yt. He will rise to the surface, don’t worry.
He's just too stealthy!😂
Everything this man said is the gospel truth. My biggest "van life" peeve is watching guys use 3/4" plywood on everything like they're building a kitchen cabinet for a house.
I had my van builders in 2018 use 1/4" cedar tongue and groove on the ceiling and 1/4" finished birch panels on the walls. Lightweight. It's been 5 years... no regrets there. Regrets > I had the bed built to be a twin short 39"X69". I should have had a full size bed built, still short but wider.
Most folk are just copying and pasting what they see done else where. Personally, I don’t see why there would be a need for all that wood being used as walls
Really liked your comparison of wood vs 80-20 for weight and space savings. Another factor is the cost of the 80-20 rails, hardware and corner pcs./ braces. As a retired aerospace machinist I have an affinity to working with aluminum but I love the look and feel of wood and the ability to make it conform to your design. Another thought on the drawer slide issue is to add a layer or two of UHMW tape to the sliding surfaces. Extremely thin and light weight and replaceable if worn out. Thanks for your video.
Agreed, also parts count matters. I built things for a living and every corner or end point adds costs since it needs to be measured and cut requiring thought and labor. KISS.
This guy is brilliant, entertaining, accurate, knowledgeable, mathematical and left handed 😂.
I'm a cabinetmaker and I've done 4 van conversions. There are two major issues that seem to be ignored by van builders - the first one is the weight of the cabinets and your comments here are very good. The other issue is one of ergonomics - how often I've seen seating, particularly bench seats with a vertical backrest and a flat base - not in any way comfortable.
Any tips? :)
@@3jcb123 110° between seat & backrest not 90°. Angle the base to match the height - it should not lift your feet off the floor but should support both front & back.
Experiment with clamps & bits of board to see if you can refine it to suit yourself better. (More upright & higher seat for working or eating, less upright for relaxing).
Dealing with that issue right now.. I ripped it all out...
@@WizzRacing
The results of your attention to ergonomics will benefit all who use the benches.
Hopefully, they will appreciate all that you have invested in creating quality.
I’m always wondering about upright seating at 90 degrees angle. Looks uncomfortable.
Finally! Someone said it! 80/20 is totally not worth it! Expensive! Heavy! And very very hard to build! I know cz I’ve done it! Believe him! 👍👍👍
I’ve no interest in building cabinets but watched this the whole way through totally fascinated . Great job 👏
As a craftsman who also builds out Adventure Vehicles, I can honestly say…this person is so accurate and spot on with their information on good construction techniques for lightweight cabinets. Only thing I could add is to use nylon glides for those wood drawers.
That might make them slide a bit too easily, so you'll also need to add latches to stop them sliding open while you're driving.
Soap on the slide area would work too (no weight)
A good wax of the sliding surfaces works great! I do that for my circular saw rip fence track guide.
Could you explain show an example of your nylon guide?
@@nagualdesign You will always need some kind of latches or other drawer securing technique. You can't make a drawer så hard to slide that it is road safe and at the same time make it usable. I mean you can manage it by luck or only driving really carefully but if you are going on an adventure, there will be some tough movement.
For those that don't understand engineering structures and shapes that give different kinds of strength you've done an EXCELLENT job of explaining it.
This is basically how aircraft are designed to minimize weight. You have thin aluminum skin over thicker aluminum ribs that carry compressive load. You could go farther and make your cabinet panels out of fabric stretched over a wood frame, like old airplanes, but use like cuben fiber.
At 12:58 you can see you have effectively created I-beams, C-beams for the side panels which are standard profiles for efficient rigidity.
Nice Moonboard.
Years ago I built a teardrop trailer. I wanted to build light, but things kept adding up and it turned out to be a heavy beast. I wish I could have watched a video like this before starting out. The regret of building heavy lasts as long as you own it. 😐
Thank you. I am in the midst of doing a van build out for a person who wants do use it for Occasional camping/ living quarters. I just installed the framework for the Beds whose height can be adjusted by a Motor.
As I finish writing this I realize I could have done that better, and set myself up for the next phase which is Area to secure Wall panels and cabinets. Funny thing is it was likely plan number five that are used to install the bedframe. It is strong and will work but now I see a better way.
That is what I got from your video. The problem-solving creative process is beautiful, rewarding, frustrating, and time consuming. But if you keep doing it, you will find a way. And don't be swayed by those who minimize What you do and try to get you to do it for less. Likely you are only getting paid for 60 to 90 % of your time anyway. Communicate clearly. Learn to say no. Keep as accurate of a log as you can. Even though that does get in the way of FLOW.
Then perhaps realize if you had a safe place to sleep last night, and a good meal today, You are a fortunate person.
What a great video! I've been completely sold on the idea of using 80/20, but he info here really changes my mind.
I've just completed a pre-trade joinery course, and although I enjoy working with "real" wood, I'm convinced you can do heaps with thin ply for cabinets. When I see TH-camr van builders use 3/4" and 1/2" ply for all the cabinets...and them soft close, heavy duty drawer runners - the weight of it all😮 This guy is a master at creating beautiful, strong, lightweight cabinetry.
Thinks, are you single Angela? 🙄
Why are you asking? 🙄@@jupiteradventure5284
Love the common sense and engineering that combined with top quality woodworking!
I've been refining my cabinet building over the years and my latest slide-on camper fitout is near identical. Mostly 3mm and 6mm oly with a little 9mm in places, no drawer slides, maximum space. I also reinforce some thin jounts with an epoxy fillet like a wooden boat/canoe builder which adds to the strength enormously if needed.
I did document one of my builds once and got a huge amount of abuse from the haters believing it would never be as strong as alloy or sheetmetal stuff and couldn't possibly last.
Not only does this video explain why wood done well can be very good but it's also great to read so many comments from people supporting his ideas.
Now if only someone could recognise this in the stuff im trying to sell. No-one wants it 😢
Yes I found this vid very interesting, I am a retired carpenter but even at my age I can still learn of talented people
This video is packed with an incredible wealth of valuable information on building strong, light-weight cabinets for a van. Everything was well reasoned and supported with solid data. I'm totally convinced. I wonder how many people, if any, build cabinets like this for vans. Very impressive.
I used to build seaworthy sailboat furniture out of mahogany and teak veneered plywoods and solids. Once the plywood furniture was fiberglassed to the hull it was almost indestructible. You overloaded it up with canning and all the stuff you need and it withheld everything through any storm. Wood is solid when used properly and much prettier!😊
You gotta love people who are so committed to improving their craft, and attaining such a high level of craft performance. Phenomenal presentation. Thanks for sharing with the van/truck conversion community.
It boils down to that: Plywood (whatever kind) has one weakness. Bending and warping along the flat surface. And you counter that by putting other plywood perpendicular to that surface. Fairly easy if you understand it. Also, aluminium (yes, I'm European) is lightweight but it's still a metal...
Sure all the joinery is skilled labour which Joe Average wouldn't be able to pull off by themselves. But you either take your time in doing it or hire a professional, like this one, to do it for you (or exploit a friend with these skills 😅)
I've been around cabinet makers and carpenters most of my life and this man knows his stuff he looks young but has the knowledge and skills of a 100 yr + cabinet maker, and as for his designs and techniques spot friggin on ! And an old school trick to help wood on wood to slide was to take bar soap yes any kind of bar soap and rub every edge and flat piece of wood cause the soap will help it slide like as if it was on super greasy sliders, trust this man hell yes and as for strength of these cabinets I'm 240 pounds and they would support me times 2 so yes dam good job sir ! And actually given some ideas on how to make a few cool designs for my build, and btw thanks for speeding up editing on the snoring part math part 🤣 thanks again and love your work please keep it coming !!
My thoughts are that you are correct, light is right. However we built our conversion with thin wall welded steel square box, with 3mm ply screwed to the frame. Two reasons for this. 1. This is my skill set! 2. Crash protection. Wooden cabinets perform very badly in a crash situation and you will end up with that fridge in the back of your head in a head on. Steel frame bolted to the chassis is better for this in my mind. I know it’s worse case scenario but you spend 95% of the time parked when weight does not matter. So like you say do what suits you. Your cabinets are beautiful and thanks so much for taking the time to share your skills. 🏴🏴🏴
It's about time someone made a video like this. I framed my cabinets from 80/20, but had a friend who is an excellent woodworker help me with the wood aspects. He had never worked with 80/20 before and had some similar thoughts that you shared. At the end of the day he indicated that, as an experienced woodworker with a garage full of woodworking tools, he could beat an 80/20 design on weight and space efficiency. But he also said the average guy probably could not, and his wood designs would not match the 80/20 strength in the event of a vehicle accident. I would be interested in experimenting with an 80/20 carcass but some lightweight wood elements internally (where the high strength is not needed) for things like drawer slide mounts, drawer latch beams, etc to save material, weight and cost. Thanks for the video.
with 8020 you either need to do proper calculation before ordering extrusions or you'll need some tools (e.g. mitersaw and thread tapers), the cost of a mistake is high. The other thing is vibration that can make all screws unscrew (so you have to apply a threadlocker). I built a small bed frame for a highlander out of 8020 (10 series), and it is heavy as hell probably around 45-50 lb (but super solid I have to admit). Next time I will build out of plywood or plywood laminated foam, cost of all those bolts and nuts adds up and the build becomes quite expensive. For a case of an accident I would prefer something less heavy even if you anchor it properly.
“… in the event of an accident …”
No matter 8020 hold… as long as the kitchen sink don’t fly through my skull when I brake in an emergency, wood cabinet will be enough.
When driving around with your house in the back, you can’t expect the crash test rating of a modern commuter car.
What about humidity? The wood expands and contracts with weather and humidity. Is it still durable and sturdy?
I'm thinking of having a van one day and I'm looking at all options for storage materials, affordability and practical.
@@raquelkhadiri162 in my experience expansion is not an issue.
If you were building the gaps so tight a layer of paint would stop it working maybe expansion would be a problem but the sort of gaps us mere mortals can manage there's plenty of room for expansion.
@@raquelkhadiri162 where humidity _is_ a problem is the glues they use to make plywood - interior grade plywood won't cope with a winter in a van, the glue dissolves & leaves all the layers to separate. Use "WBP", "exterior" or "marine" plywood & if you can get them to admit what glue they're using phenolic or melamine are the best.
Such a cogent and gentlemanly presentation! Thank you very much for sharing!
I really like your approach, a good friend of mine owns a yacht wood supply company (Seafarer Marine of Ft. Lauderdale) that uses a vacuum table to veneer many panels. They produce lightweight stable panels for high-quality joinery work. I really admire your skills as a cabinet-making carpenter.
Aircraft interiors need this type of super light cabinets.
Every once matters.
G'Day Mate, in the Australian Van/boating scene I use thin TEFLON stips top and bottom on all draws instead of wood on wood. it works just as good as bearing runners and no space taken up, no weight and cheap. I can pull my very heavy draws out with my little finger. Look for pure industrial use teflon works a treat. When I came up with this idea I rubbed slides with soap or wax put this didnt work for long as a Chef working with those slippery plastic cutting boards i cut one into stipes ...Hey BINGO. Goodluck from Rob in OZ
I’ve never understood the 80/20 fascination mainly because of the ineffeciency in space use, thanks for actually calculating just how bad it is!
Probably because people who use 8020 are less concerned with optimising use of space than they are with optimising ease of construction.
@@jasonhendrickson2289 Yea, exactly. The skill and tools (look at his shop) required are not really DIY. I am pretty handy generally, but even if I had his shop I doubt I could build those cabinets unfortunately. Beautiful stuff tho.
This is one video that is well worth watching, very good advice being given.
I meant total weight. You do a great job of your unit v. a unit with 80/20. I am seeing builds get heavier and heavier with highly decorative interiors and endless exterior add-ons.
I’ve been a traditional woodworker my whole life, but I have not seen a presentation regarding Poplar core plywood as thorough as yours. I am planning to build a gypsy Vardo and will be definitely sourcing some of this plywood for cabinetry. Thanks a ton.
Thank you! Good luck with your build!
We are currently building a Vardo style van, ( our third build). My neighbor built a van of 80/20 and it was almost undrivable it was so heavy.
Wow! I can’t believe how much I learned from you about math, wood, building cabinets, finishing….I want to build out a ProMaster City - I know my exact layout but since I am a senior woman with no building skills 🙁 I wish I could find someone like you who knows what they are doing! This video is one of the most enjoyable on the details of building that I’ve watched - thank you for shooting it!
It is a lot of work so it is hard to find a friend who is willing to do it but with the rise in popularity of vanlife, there are plenty of companies that do van builds. Check around in your area but make sure you check the reviews of the companies so you don't hire some low skilled ones.
Great video. I have used mdf for over 40 years and never had a problem. Ply is harder to work with. However, you need to use thicker mdf than 6 mm. I don't fingerprint because once the structure is established and glued, they are very strong. The strength comes from the draw bottom.
OMG! My friends think I'm crazy for obsessing over a few pounds of weight.... I have a new hero! 🙂 Awesome work my friend! Understanding stresses vs function is so lacking in most builds... Building several homebuilt airplanes, I became obsessed with weight; the easiest variable to trim.... I considered 80/20 for a new van, as I had seen some nice builds, but always noticed unusable space as an additional penalty to weight. I have built a minimalist Odyssey van, with all the comforts of a big RV, except for standing room, and still maintained the 23mpg highway mileage. My dream is to build a long wheelbase hi-roof Ford Transit, tasteful in presentation, but opulent only in function, and preserve the potential gas mileage and safety margin of a lighter vehicle, still capable of a reasonable trailer tow. A most duplicatable & saleable proposition.... I must come up and visit you! Hands down, the best I've seen. Keep up the good work and videos. Oh and take a break to enjoy your handiwork too!
OMG! My friends think I'm crazy for obsessing over a few pounds of weight #metoo - but I learned a harsh lesson 23 years ago - now on my build I'm watching every gram - even on my cutlery!
I would so love to have a small cabinet from you!
You are so interesting and the only one bringing these factors into view for us. Thank you
Excellent video with very valuable information. Best one on important aspect of cabinet build.
Wow you are one really smart guy. Holy cow!
I've spent a lot of time living in vans, and camping along the Pan American highway visiting the rigs of other travelers. The one thing I heard over and over was to cut every ounce off your rig possible. I don't think I ever met anyone who said they wished they'd bought a bigger rig, but I met many who wished they'd bought smaller and lighter and not thrown so much junk on their rig. Simple and light is the trick for long term success.
Thank you so much for this very educational video. Lightweight is what I was looking for to re-organize my little fibreglass camper. There is so much wasted space and not enough storage for me and my dog/cat/tortoise/yarn/fabric.
Thank You for explaining it so throughly.
I agree 100% I feel that no one takes weight into account when building out their Van. I love to work with wood and I was considering using 2020 for my van. You have given me a lot to think about now. I have been remodeling an RV and after taking things apart I have a new respect for weight savings. I can’t wait to start my build … again.
Haha. I think weight is talked about a lot but not is done much about it. First video: "You want to make sure your van isn't too heavy." Every video after: "watch me build a 4000 lb conversion."
@@projectofscience I subscribed I will watch all of your videos. But I will most likely build out of wood instead of Aluminum or I might combine i.e. Cabinets and such out of wood, Bed/bench out of Aluminum. Best of both.
I am no carpenter, nor cabinetmaker, but I am building an interior for my 5' X 10' cargo-to-camper-trailer conversion. A goal is to use exclusively baltic birch ply for everything in the trailer. Galley shelves, cabinets, drawers, bunk/storage... I started with 1/4" (6mm?) baltic birch that I have finished with clear shellac for all of the walls and interior door skins and have become enamored with it.
I had planned to use 1/2" (12 or 13mm) baltic birch for the bunk structure (fixed, with storage underneath)... but what I may do is go to more 1/4" and beef the edges against bending (and for "beam") w/ strips of 1/2" as you utilize in your AMAZING cabinet work. I was so tickled to watch this video I nearly sheetmahpaynts. I love it. THANK you for sharing your craftsmanship with us. I have subscribed.
Had been so convinced on the usage of 8020 that until I watched your video. Absolutely sold on your take of why wood is the better option and all the points you raised were absolutely valid. You can't imagine how happy my girlfriend is now that I too wish to make it in wood. Would be great if you would share more on your construction techniques even though you've shared some great insights in this video. All the best in your TH-cam channel!!!
I agree, I would love to see a basic cabinet construction, including one drawer layout.
@@blandry021 i think we all do :)
There are many woodworking channels that cover the basics, this guy made the important points on how to keep it light and beautiful, dont ask more of him...
I built with 1" insulation board because of weight, and safety in an accident. My space lost was more than yours, and it's definitely not as polished, but even in a rollover catastrophic accident, I'm not having a javelin in my head.
Don't see enough people recognize this.
Anything heavy is stored low. Each piece is held in place by direct attachment and by friction fit (like puzzle pieces).
You are an amazing craftsperson, and your maths and sciences are much better than my reasoning, but I felt a kinship in seeing something most people ignore.
Thanks!
This! My concerns exactly.
As a long time wood worker I have to commend you on this video. You have made some really good points here that so many people who do van builds should learn. Keep up the great work you are doing!
The list of benefits he rattled off are not theoretical. As an engineer that used to race cars, and now drives a van, I can assure you these measures make for a safer, more enjoyable, and more off-road capable ride. Ever wonder why you always see RVs on the side of the road changing a tire? Weight. (Ok and aged tires). Ditch the giant bumper and other off-road ornaments as well. Stellar job on those finger jointed 1/4 ply drawer boxes - not easy.
We should be friends!
There is a significant termite population in my area.
For my RV revamp, I chose 80/20 for that reason.
I used synthetics for hydronic flooring and panels.
Thank you for your consideration of weight! I am using a hybrid combination of aluminum angle, wood and plastic, though your approach is having me reevaluate some of my choices. My biggest limit is tools and workshop space - I've built jigs, etc., to make my hand tools more accurate, yet some of your craftsmanship is beyond my capabilities.
Another consideration that occupies my worries is prompted by watching the (few) RV crash test videos. Lighter is much better in a crash, almost always. Your explanation of forces is very helpful when imagining a crash.
Thank you!
Nice share. Migh call you The Cabinet Truther. Appreciate an honest man with a walk behind the talk. Bless you.
Awesome and very detailed explanation
Great job!!!
I really needed and loved this video.
I'm an aviation enthusiast, model airplane builder, and also I build my own furniture at home (used a lot of MDF for cabinets, and build a sofa and some nests with 10mm and 15mm plywood).
I'm planning to build a campervan in the future, so I'm watching lots of videos.
I've been seeing camper van builders using 15mm MDF and lots of heavy accessories, or even using 15mm plywood on anythng.
That really annoys me, because MDF is very dense and when you have something moving you want it to be as light as possible due to performance, driving dynamics, safety, fuel economy, better range, less pollution, saving tires, saving shocks, staying in max gross weight and so on.
I've been thinking in ways to save weight and this video confirmed all my ideas and gave me dozens more to work on.
Awesome vid! Thanks so much for posting this :)
I'm about to build my van, and this is just the information I need.
Subscibed.
Wooden drawer slides are fantastic, look at any old school cabinetry! Like you said the weight savings just eliminating drawer slides is considerable, plus there's space savings and huge cost savings as well! You can also design them to eliminate drawer locks as well; this was done on a lot of vintage campers and boats. Anyway, great video, and great points!
The elimination of drawer locks, is going to depend entirely on the expected use case of the vehicle. If you only expect to drive on pavement, or well graded gravel roads? It's probably fine. But the moment you think or believe that you will go out exploring on logging roads, or remote access roads, or anywhere that the road isn't graded, yearly? You are still going to want latched drawers and cabinets. The vibration and impacts will dislodge pretty much any lip or friction based retention.
As always, it is important to understand the limits of the mechanisms you use in making whatever it is you make. For a lot of people? The lip, or friction based retention will work flawlessly.
@@scottgoldmarble7509 I'll contradict that assertion. I sold high level catering equipment for over 20 years - all van based. I ragged my vans to within an inch of their lives around the lanes of the Cotswold hills. - $300 knives sat on shelves and never moved! (they were on non slip mats but no other retaining.) Another point in case: 50 years ago a dear friend of mine left his brew on the A frame of his trailer - 47 miles later he got home - tea was cold but still sat where he'd put it - and If as TTT says it'll work for boats.......
@@CosmicSeeker69 I did say it is probably fine on pavement and well graded gravel roads.
I'm not sure what the roads of Cotswold are like, but they are clearly better maintained than many of the logging roads I know of, here in B.C. Canada. Often times you will be dodging potholes that are 2-6 inches deep, or running into washboard so bad, you have to slow down or you will lose control of your vehicle. When you hit roads like that? It doesn't matter how good of a non-slip mat you have, things are going to move, because they are going to not be in contact with the mat. Things will start bouncing around.
I'm not a good enough woodworker to build like you do, but I do agree that it is the correct way to do it.
One thing you might want to look into is making "sliderails" under your drawers from PTFE sheets, you can find them thin as paper and hoe thick you need.
I had a scrap pice I put under a wooden box that sometimes would bind, and now it feels like it is on lubricated rails
lol i read that as hoe thick cause it made sense haha
I used 10-series 80/20. I liked working with it. Like advanced legos.I liked it for framing up my heavier items, like 29 gallon interior water tank, water heater, and batteries. It has been rock solid for 6 years now. That said I only used it for base cabinets. All upper cabinets are soft fabric. Great video though. I agree that 15-series is totally overkill.
....and I gotta look into this vacuum-veneering thing.....I'm also rebuilding my home into a MCM design and plan to build my own slab-door kitchen cabinetry (or, at least, just the doors on pre-made box carcasses), of walnut --- obviously, b/c of $, just walnut veneer!😮
This is great. I built a Ford Econoline into a camper when I was 16. I've been a carpenter virtually my whole life. Now I am (waiting for the snow to go away and weather to warm a bit) renovating a 14 foot travel trailer that I NEVER should have bought just so I can get rid of it and move on to what I really want to do, which is to build my own trailer on top of a flat bed. At the same time I'm putting together a workshop, since we just now got into a house with a two-car garage. So I have a lot to do and will probably never reach your level. But if the trailer build goes well I may go into van conversions/trailer builds as a way to bring in some cash, and something to do during retirement. This is all good information I can use to reach that goal. PLUS I can see you're a climber and biker... two of my passions as well. Cheers dude, and thanks!
Damn man! I thought I had a lot going on. I'm a pretty miserable aluminum welder but that has been a curiosity of mine: build a super lightweight travel trailer. Thanks you!
Wow. Good research. You are gifted. Thank you for your work.
Excellent video. Your reasoning is not too different from what I have seen at companies that make cabinets for business jets. You won’t find any 3/4 plywood or 80/20 there either!
Super video!! I'm actually building an RV in a mercedes MB100 from the 90's.. the engine has only +-100 lbft of torque(hope the conversion is right) . Here also everything gets built in poplar 4, 6, 10 mm multiplex. Total mass of the furniture expected to be under 90 kg. And it is a must to keep the ride pleasant.
Thank you for this video. I purchased and returned Ikea Kitchen units. Ikea units were too heavy and had metal/steel drawer runners, Forming the draw side. I bought and returned EVO-Designed kitchen units (A Wareham UK company). They were cut out of 12mm Lightweight Plywood. Again they had metal/Aluminium drawer runners/sides. ( Forming the draw side). The finish on the cut edges was poor. Now I require a kitchen unit for my van conversion and I will have to manufacture it from your design. I have taken screenshots.
Great presentation. Thank you. Cheers from OZ
At random came across this video, and I have to say finally someone that build like my dad and later me use to do for cabinets and furniture when we converted vans for our own use.
I never understood why we always made it work in wood so much thinner than what I see everyone on TH-cam build in.
Thank you for making a nice and very clear explanation I can point people to when they refuse to believe things can be build strong using less thickness!
Very impressive and informative.
Didn’t know what to think of the 8020 frames for cabinets. Now I do! Still they could be useful for floor frames on expansive deck…
Only competitive lightweight cabinets would be foamies. They are very lightweight & easy to cut. However precision cuts can be difficult & is time consuming due to having to let the resin coating on fabrics, veneers, screens & thin plywoods which strengthen the foam cabinets takes time to cure.
From the get go. “I hope this creates a discussion more than battling words.” Instant subscription my man. Awesome video, always wanted to build my own, thank you so much! Awesome work!
I'm a metal worker by trade and my first option would be the ali extrusions, however, after watching this my mind has been changed, plus you got a subscriber.
I'm amazed at the quality of your woodworking skills with such thin material, very impressive.
I have no plans of building a camper van, but this video really makes me want to start one - and get you to build the cabinets for it! I absolutely love your way of thinking, using every little scrap of space and making things a light, while very strong, as possible.
Thinking outside the box ……. We need more of that! Brilliant . Thanks for sharing.
Not much thinking seems to go on inside the box lol. People need to bust themselves out of those boxes.
I'm very impressed with your analysis. Cabinet structure, drawer and slides all add weight and decrease space utilization. When I looked at 80/20, reached similar conclusions to you. Heavy weight and lower utilization. Many builds with 80/20 look very space wasteful.
You cabinetry skills and forethought are admirable. This is my first video of your channel. It will have be browsing around to find more here. Nicely done!
I notice you have an fx 115 MS calculator. The best non-programmable engineering calculator ever!
Fantastic Knowledge & Experience.
i love building like this & this wisdom is astronomically underrated !!
i use this ultralight & strong const. with an all-season micro trail camper that converts from 2wheel cart to sled
(i'm 1st time viewer, now subscribed)
That van will be lauched to the moon when finished. Gosh dude!!!
Thanks for your important video about light wight cabinets and the comparison of extruded aluminum profiles. Very helpful! You helped to economize my time!
Very important information as a lot vans are actually overloaded. Another alternative would be using AL honey comb panels, though expensive and not as easy to join as wood..and its known that woodworkers often do not like working with metal!
As a lifelong cabinet maker.
I got to say Well done."
It seems nowadays even with CNC control cutting people don't understand the benefits of accuracy and gluing components to create strength.
Happy to see your video. I'll be watching more.
This is amazing and super helpful for anyone trying to decide what material to use for the van. I never really understood the 80/20 fad for cabinetry, plus it’s so expensive. Great video
And, time consuming- bc once you've cut the frame and screwed it together- making sure that you have threaded all the brackets on first, you still have the job of panelling it all.
As a cabinet maker myself a applaud you for your skills in the trade and in front of the camera.
EXCELLENT Finally someone who understands load and structure, and the weight/fuel issue. I am a retired Cabinet Maker and doing similar in my VW Crafter.
This is GREAT stuff. The weight savings of poplar plywood is significant, and the material I will be using for some upcoming work van racking systems. Your comment below on the Incra box joint jig is VERY helpful, as I didn't know it existed. I will likely use 1/2" ply for various drawers (much heavier contents than in a conversion van) but the box joints greatly increase the strength.
I would love to see a video of you making some of these drawers.
Thank you! I'll keep it in mind for a future video about the drawers. For a work van I'd definitely not recommend a lot of the content of this video....or at least when I think of my days of using a work van or truck.
Thanks for this! You’ve validated a lot of my concerns/observations regarding extruded aluminum. And I love your simple cabinets/drawers. My old kitchen has simple drawers without metal slides and they work great even after 50 years. Definitely going to try this for my next build. 👍
Don’t give up on 8020 just because 99.99% of the builders using it have absolutely no structural engineering background but want you to think they’re a master of 8020 so they can make money off your clicks. It’s a lot easier to fake being a master of 8020 then it is to fake being a master cabinet maker. Most of these people don’t even know what a grade 8 bolt is.
More expensive, but stronger and lighter for a given dimension, is Coosa board. I haven’t built with it myself but it is used extensively in the boat building industry.
Another option, if one has the tools, is 1/16” (approx) aluminum with the same dimensional properties as the plywood and no susceptibility to moisture like wood.
All that said, this man’s cabinets are fantastic!
This is freakin' awesome. So, the northwest for Poplar plywood. I can see me ending up with plastic rubber maid tubs bunggeed to the wall, though. But if I go for wood build, it will be as light as possible.
Definitely a smart - bordering on brilliant approach. One thing you could consider using for drawer slides are thin strips of Teflon as bearing surfaces. This way, if there is any expansion or contraction due to humidity, the Teflon might allow for those variances in the dimensions where the drawers meet the carcass. Great job!
My mind is blown. You sir are an impressive craftsman. Tip of my hat to you! My mind is changed.
This video is amazing. With all the details and exact explanation. Best video for diy van shelve construction out there.
That was so informative and well presented. This is a MUST view for anyone contemplating building the most lightweight cabinets for their conversion. Those with the tools and skills will find this invaluable. Thank you for putting this together and sharing your knowledge.
Thank you!
So many van converters use ply that is too thick and too heavy and replicate their cabinets at home. That’s fine if you don’t have to move your home around! It’s about time van converters realised that caravan manufacturers (especially in the uk), use a framework and then clad in 3mm ply in most cases because our caravans need to be towed about. I’m using framework in mine.
I often see pretty custom builds and the first problem i see is they're overweight on the axles /suspension. So valuable to mention space considerations too on 8020 vs wood formed to sides pillars, taking up too much space and aesthetically clunky lego looking in the end. Thanks for the great stress / sheer tips on thinner wood.two thumbs for your methods. Liking your great wood shop too.
Brings engineering to woodwork and well explained.
Very cool. Very precise, well thought out, and tested advice.
it is good that you highlight the benefits of saving weight and space, something I have worked with but with different materials, that we find can be an alternative to ply.
There’s a bunch I’d like to say right now, but I’ll keep it short. This is a great video. I’m gonna save it.
Great info! I always thought that 80/20 was massive overkill, structurally. Only a couple of things in a van deserve that much support - the bed, and possibly one side of a couch. I always thought that a hybrid approach might be better.
Take an example from Gl*ck - they're 90% plastic, with just a few reinforcing pieces of metal that give the frames and body extreme rigidity while not weighing very much.
I'll be making my second conversion later this year, and I'm exploring using angle brackets and flat pieces in strategic locations to get the bending and torsion aspects under control. The bed will still probably be 80/20 ( #1 son is 6'6" and needs the support ).
For overhead cabinets, two angle brackets should be quite sufficient - possibly only one. After all- the van's roof is pretty rigid, already.
I like your drawers not needing glides - virtually ALL the old furniture we have in our house does not have fancy drawer glides. Saving the space and weight is a great idea.
Finally - one can paint those "boring" poplar in various ways to add interest.
I've grown to love a similar style of building. I'm not nearly at your level (love your work) but plan to get there. Light is so important, heavy breeds heavy. I do use epoxy for imperfect joints and build in curves to panels where possible for strength from the curve itself. Please do a video on laminating, that is a great idea that I had discarded due to assuming it'd be too hard to do.
I was never sold on the 80/20 so am glad you posted this for those who think 80/20 is the only way to go.
After watching a bunch of builds over the years - lots have promoted 80/20. As much as I wanted to use 80/20 but I ended up not using any at all on my 2 van builds (well except for about 3 feet in 2 separate locations where it was kind of nice to have the slots to install some special devices)
I did use Baltic Birch - I will have to consider Poplar next time.
I did not use any hardware on my drawers either. Don't need it.
Thanks for the video
This is just how I was imagining making cabinets for my van, but with much more thought and expertise!!
I’ve been working with wood most of my life, but this is over the top!! Now that I’m in my 70’s, it would be great to have someone do this type of work for my van! Thanks for sharing this with the general public!!!
Great info, thanks! For such an engineering geek 😂 you sure can explain things so they're easy to understand. As the owner of an old (year 2000, and 200k+ mileage but still in great shape!) hightop Econoline (set up as a bare-bones mobile office that I want to start converting into a camper van), this is super-useful food for thought. I too want to cut weight every place I can --- for one thing, my E-150 is the lightest weight capacity of the three Econoline versions --- to indulge in more desirable weight luxuries elsewhere....say, larger water tanks for more convenience. If you're familiar with the DIY Paulk portable workbench (find on TH-cam), one of which I've already made for myself & use a lot, he also espouses the strength & lighter weight of thin plywood, if you just know how to assemble it cleverly. Plus I really like the way you can contour these wood units so well to the nooks & crannies of van walls.