Hi Pete, thank you for the videos, we're in the planning stages. Currently 'weighing' the options of a larger fresh water tank vs recirculating shower. As a follow-up video maybe you can show the maintenance routine required for your system. That's one of the items we need to consider.
After we have a lot more experience using the shower I was thinking of doing a video on 1) how to efficiently use the recirculating shower, 2) how long the filters last before cleaning/replacing, and 3) how to maintain the shower for short term and long term storage. My wife and I use less than a gallon of water to take our showers. We use even less if we save and reuse the gallon of water a second or third time. The weight and space savings for carrying only 5 to 10 gallons of water instead of 20 to 40 gallons is huge.
Hi Pete! This is the best-designed recirculating shower I've seen so far and I love your strategy of using a low-power electric in-line heater and cycling the water until it's up to temp. I'm planning on doing the same in my trailer conversion. It's really amusing to realize that I've basically created a tank-style water heater... with a walk-in tank! :) I've bought a 110V in-line heater that uses standard screw-in water tank heating elements and swapped out the 3.5kW one for a 1.5kW one that my inverter can handle. I like this solution better than the heater you use because I can repair and replace things in my unit more easily. (I could even put a DC heating element in it someday, as long as the thermal cutoff switch and relay could handle the higher current.) I have one (well, for now, LOL) main question about your system -- do you think it's a problem to have such an overpowered pump running continuously at such low flow rates? I would worry about it perhaps decreasing the lifespan or leading to overheating. Usually fresh water systems have an accumulator tank to allow the pump to run intermittently. I was looking at the Aquatec variable speed pumps but they're expensive. I am planning on incorporating two spin-down filters and making my filtration/UV/pump system into a modular unit that I can unplug and carry down to a lake or stream to filter and pump water back in through my garden hose fill port. This will be the same hardware used for the shower recirculation which should get me a lot of functionality for the amount of space/monetary investment. :) Thank you for sharing about the AquiSense LED UV filters. Makes WAY more sense than the mercury systems I was looking at. I'll try to get them to sell me one, too. :P Much gratitude!
... a walk-in hot water tank...very funny! But true😊 I like my in-line water heater because I only need to heat enough water to cover the shower drain and not suck air, about 1/2", or usually less than a gallon. Something else I haven't pointed out is that any heat loss from the UV filter and water heater is captured inside the under sink cowling and helps keep the water warm. While taking a shower the pump does not experience enough back pressure to turn off. The flow rate is large enough to not trip the pressure switch so the pump runs continuously. I don't think it should overheat but I will keep an eye on it. An accumulator tank would be useful to lengthen the on-off cycles if the pump was frequently cycling. With your setup and pump an accumulator may be necessary. I know many recirculating shower designs use a spin down filter. I have a screen that I added magnets to at the shower drain to make sure hair and large debris can't reach the pump. I also have a prefilter right at the pump intake to catch smaller debris. I don't know how much additional debris is removed by a spin down filter that makes it past the prefilters. Does anyone know how much debris is typically captured in the spin down filter and whether it is worth adding one? I only plan to fill my fresh water tanks with potable water through a small in-line water filter at campground water spigots. If you are pulling water from lakes and streams your system sound terrific.
Yes, I think your recirculation strategy (especially with the shower pan screen) probably doesn't need a spin-down filter! But I expect it to be important for filtering surface water, e.g. from muddy streams and lakes. :) Another fun aspect of my system -- I collect the rainwater from my roof and it empties into my shower pan, so I will use the same filter system to pump that into my fresh water tank. (I will probably let the first few minutes drain straight out the bottom though before plugging my drain and letting the pump fill my tank, because the first bit of rain usually carries all the contaminants off the roof!) Good point about the pump flow rate and pressure switch. I will need to make sure that I use a high enough flow rate, and/or a high enough pump cutoff pressure, to keep the pump running continuously. I think a high pressure but lower flow rate pump would be best for this. You've inspired me to ditch the expensive variable speed pump. :) (If I really need to, I think I could decrease the power output with a PWM controller.)
You may have noticed that I never pump recirculated shower water back into my fresh water tanks, I keep those tanks pristine. Shower water is either reused for more showers, pumped into the toilet flush tank, or sent down the sink into the grey water tank. Good luck on your plumbing solution.
Excellent work. Whilst considering how best to convert my truck I did idly consider whether it would be possible to do something like this and now, by complete accident, I find someone who has not only done it but has also taken the time and trouble to share it here. Many thanks. Well worth a subs+1. 👍
During pressure testing of the fittings in my driveway I found the silicone tubing works great for the low pressure lines but I used a 9-inch flex stainless steel braided supply line from the pump to the filter cartridge.
Very simple idea. , I have built a recerculating shower in my caravan , and it works well I would suggest you use not 1 filter. But at least 2 , because from expeariance. I can tell you that soap will clog your one filter very quick , we can get a few showers out of ours. No problem. We also only use1 tap for the shower pretty much set the temperature and that’s all. We also use gas To heat the water as it doesn’t use any power.
Congratulations on having a recirculating shower in your caravan. So far my shower is working well. We use glycerin based soaps to reduce the amount of filter clogging. I am using a single filter cartridge but with a layered filter that effectively acts like three separate filters. By using the sink faucet to mix the hot water and the somewhat cooler recirculating water each user can adjust the temperature to their liking. One of my goals was to build an all electric van (other than the engine) to eliminate any flames inside the van. Since I am heating only 3 quarts of water, it uses less than 10% of my 200Ah battery. Once the water is heated the power drops so low you could take a two hour shower without depleting the battery, most of the power is used by the pump.
If you want a filter to remove soaps in real time check out the Wavebrite Gray water module. Its not cheap but it works! I wish it came in a smaller size because its the ticket! Also check out the Nano Ceram filters an how they work. They also told me just use them as the sediment filter as well, plus now some have carbon added in for smell etc. Just my 2 cents for what its worth and just sharing my experience an research.
Just wanted to mention here to anyone putting this system together you can buy the Pearl Aqua filter with an automatic flow switch for less money at a place called The Water guy in Canada. Amazon sells this for $450 and you still have to wire and buy a flow switch. The one from Canada is $270 and it comes with a flow switch. Much better deal and less work. Win win. I can also say that many flow switches will restrict water flow as well, so beware.
Happy to contribute a little bit Pete! I wish the Pearl Aqua came in half inch instead of 3/8 size. It's no wonder the water flow is restricted. I finally have all my parts together so close to assembly. I'll see if I can shoot a video of the whole thing when I'm done.
So brilliant, thank you for sharing! 1. How often does the filter need changed? 2. Can the filter be cleaned and reused? 3. Are certain kinds of soaps and shampoo better for this system than others?
1. What we have done so far is to replace the filter after each one to two week adventure so we really don't know how many showers we can take with a single filter. We found if we don't disinfect the system between outing, maybe for a week or two, the unfiltered and undisinfected water in the filter cartridge smells like pond scum. 2. I chose to use a single layered filter that is inexpensive enough to just use a new filter for each outing. 3. We use a glycerin based soap such as Dr. Bonners. Without the oils in regular soap the filter seems to last longer.
Fantastic video, thanks Pete. I'm wondering how you landed on the Stiebel Eltron for your water heater? What specs were you looking for in particular and do you know whether any/most heaters would have a flow restrictor that could be removed? And is there an optimum flow through the water heater?... Assumedly too fast and it won't heat properly and obviously too slow is a rubbish shower.
I looked at several on-demand under sink water heaters and a boost water heater is what I chose. None of them I looked at had water flow rates good enough for a shower. They all restrict the flow rate to what they can heat on-demand to a hot temperature. In a recirculating shower you don't need to heat the water up to full temperature in a single pass. I wanted a 2400W heater but my battery inverter combination could not quite deliver the slightly higher power that the Stiebel Eltron heater needed. I settled for an 1800W unit but that is OK it just takes a little longer to heat the water. The 1800W heater raises the temperature approximately 6 degrees per pass. After the water circulates through the heater for about 4 minutes it is up to full temperature. Once up to temperature you can mix it with slightly cooler shower pan water to regulate the temperature. You want to maintain enough water flow through the heater to keep the heating element energized. I hope this clarifies how the recirculating shower heats the water.
I contacted AquiSense directly and made it clear I knew the limitations of installing the filter. The LEDs in the filter use water to keep them cool so they are not damaged. The filter must be mounted vertically so on air can be trapped in the filter. Second the filter must be paired with a flow switch to ensure that water is flowing to the filter before power is applied. With a few email exchanges they agreed to sell me filter.
Are there special soaps needed for the recirculating shower? I researched this topic a few years back. All of my research kept coming back with soaps clogging the filter media too quickly to make the system usable. Thanks.
According to my research, glycerin based soaps like Dr. Bonners and Neutrogena work well in recirculation showers to reduce the clogging of the filters.
Hey Pete! This is great, I have based my design off of yours. Can you tell me how you went about removing the flow restrictor? Do you have any pictures or videos?
To remove the flow restrictor (which voids the warranty) I took the two end caps off (lots of Torx screws). Then you can look down the water channels and see which one has the flow restrictor installed and push it out with a screw driver. Make a note of which channel had the flow restrictor in case you want to put it back. I do not have pictures or videos on removing the flow restrictor. It has been awhile but I recall there is a temperature sensor attached to one of the end caps. Be careful not to damage the connection to the sensor.
I too have been working on this! I have been using an I-Heat shower head that runs on 110 an you can control temperature. I have gone with the nano ceram filters that remove everything and have a high flow rate but also I dont need the UV light because these filters remove virus/cyst etc! The big issue Im having is using a Wavebrite Gray water module (24 inches) that removes all soaps/oils/shampoos etc in real time and figuring out the best way to hook it up because of its size. As far as I know its the only filter in the world that can remove soaps in real time, so I need to figure it out. I would like to run water through it for only the time needed to remove the soaps then bypass it as its good for like 5000 gallons an I would like to make it last., You can send filter module back in and have it refurbished! I love your sink shower set up! Nice!
Interesting selection of products. The I-Heat shower head brings 110V into the shower head and is a little unnerving. The one I saw tries to heat water in one pass and consumes 2.5Kw which is beyond my battery's current capacity. The filter cartridge seems expensive but I might try it someday to see if it works better and lasts much longer than my particle filter.
@@fivepoundpete Ya I don't have it in the shower I have it hooked up right after the filter and have a hose with shower wand coming into the shower stall. I can open the curtain to adjust temperature. It starts on high so you do need a good inverter, I wish it didnt start out on high because it has like 4 settings and I usually can get by on the 3rd setting which also lowers electrical consumption..My system right now is portable but not portable enough yet (lol). Like you found out circulating the water does not take as much energy once warmed up. Trying to go small but yet robust is a challenge when using off the shelf parts. Tghe 2.5Kw is to powerful next one down is better for what Im doing. I did look at the one you used but flow wasent good enough (which you fixed!) but then I was trying to figure out how to control temp range. Anyway since you were good enough to share I was just passing along what I have learned. Just my 2 cents and passing it along to you! Good Luck I love seeing what others are doing! Im still trying to find a better quieter pump!
I have a 3000W inverter which had no problem with a Stiebel Eltron 2.4Kw heater model but when I tried it the combination of the inverter loss and the pump power exceeded my 200A battery current capability. I am using the 1.8Kw model and can live with a few more minutes to bring the water up to temperature to avoid using a second battery (cost, volume and weight). let me know if you find a quieter 5 GPM pump.
@@fivepoundpete Check out the Loopz Shower which is very very simple not much filtration but sometimes simple is best. They are working on a heater but its not ready. Reminds me of an aquarium heater (which I tried but they dont get hot enough (so they dont kill the fish) Just FYI.....
I am familiar with the Loopz Shower and it is a pretty cool product for outdoor camping. I would recommend the LoopZ Plus with the UV filter that kills viruses and bacteria.
Hey Pete would love to see how you have installed all of these in your van. Also any further thoughts from this video after installation and if you would change anything.
Hello Pete: I'm running into a little bit of an issue and wanted to see if I could get some feedback from you. Since I'm using the exact same shower pan as you, and the same diameter hose from the shower pan drain (3/8") I'm thinking you must have run into the same issue I'm having. The problem is cavitation/ventilation, and of course, the simple answer is more water, so air doesn't get sucked into the pump. I'm up to 1.5 gallons, and I was actually hoping to get by on even less, but 1.5 seems to be just about a bare minimum with my current setup, and still having issues if I momentarily block the water, which I could certainly see doing during a shower. If the tiniest amount of air is sucked into the pump, then water flow is severely diminished until the prime is reestablished. One thing I found is that by breaking up the water flow via a screen that seems to help, so I think I might be on to something there. With just the bare drain with no screen I end up forming a whirlpool where air is sucked in (not good). Right now I have one of those screens used for catching hair, and that is helping, but it spins around due to all the turbulence. I don't have the sediment filter installed or UV filter, just a prefilter at this point. Slowing the flow rate down I'm sure would help, but that's actually not what I want to do as I don't even feel it's super powerful at this point. I'm using the smaller three gallon pump, not the 5 gallon you have. A more powerful pump is just going to make the situation worse. Anything you have found to help eliminate the cavitation issues? I even have my shower pan tilted about 1/2 inch over stock, so that more water is collecting around drain (The equivalent of probably two gallons of water in the pan). I'm thinking that an accumulator tank might help a little bit, but the bottom line is I think any air that is introduced into the system is going to break the prime. Not quite sure what direction to take. It seems like either more water or a slower flow rates are the answers and I really don't want to change either one. If anything I want to increase water pressure with even less water.
I have a few ideas why I have not seen your problem. I do have a screen in the shower pan drain to catch hair and this probably prevents the vortex you describe. I also added a pair of magnets to the screen to hold it down so hair couldn't sneak by. The magnets prevent it from spinning around. The geometry of the drain could also come into play. Mine is very shallow. I have a video on how I made it. The 3 GPM pump without any back pressure from the sediment filter, UV filter and heater is probably pushing more flow than what I see while taking a shower. I only need about 1/2" of water above the drain to prevent cavitation and this is typically 3 to 4 quarts depending how level the van is parked. Just a note: with the water only flowing though the heater the flow rate is OK but by bypassing some water through the "cold" water line I get a great flow rate with a 5 GPM pump. Let me know how any of your experiments come out.
My drain design is very similar to yours. About 1" tall. This set up would actually make the issue worse, not better though. I'm not sure where you're going with that. Imagine if you had a 6 inch tall cylinder where you were drawing water from the bottom and it was going in at the top. No way you're going to create cavitation with something this deep without a huge amount of pressure. It's the shallowness that is actually allowing pressure to break the surface tension of the water, which introduces air. Technically this is considered ventilation, whereas I think cavitation refers to turbulence introducing air. Some of this comes from the boating world and propellers, but similar things happen in a blender if you don't have enough liquid. I'm not sure which is the correct term here, but the effect is the same. Air is being sucked into the system. No question that back pressure is going to slow the flow. The filter housing may solve the problem all by itself. To my way of thinking what I need to do is slow the flow without affecting pressure. What are your thoughts here? The question is what's the best way to accomplish this? Let me just get the filter hooked up today and the shower head. Both of those is going to increase back pressure. And I'll try some magnets for the filter screen. I was already planning to use magnets to hold the shower curtain in place. I purposely added some ferrous metal behind the pan to allow for this. I already made a video about this but, not uploaded yet. Perhaps I will upload part one of my video series and you can see what I'm doing. I can't post a link here but just do a search on youtube for a fold- down recirculating shower for a van. I'll try to upload that later today.
I added the filter housing today, and that helped. To get things where there's only about 1/2 inch of water there's still about a gallon and a half of water being used as now you need to use another quart or so to fill up the filter and lines. An additional "head" height of the shower wand is going to further increase backflow. I can definitely see the need for a stronger pump now, and water flow has been significantly reduced. Looks like a check valve will probably be needed as well. My first video was uploaded but won't be available for viewing until tomorrow. Again do a search for "Fold down Recirculating shower" Part 1 You tube won't allow links.
Hi Pete, I'm quite new to this so please excuse my ignorance, but I'm trying to work out how I can get the most out of this system. I really want to be able to have several showers without having to refill and drain the water all the time. Does this system work well for that? I was wondering as well if fitting a fresh and waste water tank to this system in parellel might help in that effort? So that one could refill and drain the recirculted water when it gets too dirty. I don't know if that would work. Hope all is well and looking forward to any updates :)
After each shower we empty the shower pan water by pointing the shower head into a 1 gallon clear water jug. This way we can look at how clear it is and either reuse it (we leave the water jug in the shower pan) or pour it down the drain into the grey water tank. I think our water jug solution works well and eliminates the complexity of adding parallel tanks. We use a bungee cord around the water filter to keep the jug from moving around.
Hey there, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this and it's been a few months and I've watched this video multiple times, I was wondering if this was in the van and has been used and tested and what is the summary? You definitely opened my eyes on a smaller, less complicated version of a recirculating shower and I'm at that stage of my build where I'll be buying and getting this in place. Thank you for these videos and for the future answer...Joe
We used the shower a few times on our maiden voyage and it worked well with great water pressure and steady adjustable temperature. I want to take dozens of showers before I report on how often the filter needs to be replaced. So far we are delighted with its performance.
@@fivepoundpete follow up question(s). I got the Aquisense filter and the water heater. Can you show the 12V power to the Aquisense since it has a power adapter block. Also, can you show where/how you changed the water heater for flow control? Even just a few pictures would be incredibly helpful. Please and thank you.
I bought the Aquisense filter directly from the manufacturer without a power adapter, it came with a two wire 12V lead. You might contact the manufacturer for advice on how to use yours in a 12V system. To remove the flow restrictor (and void the warranty) I took the two end caps off the water heater (lots of Torx screws). Then you can look down the water channels and see which one has the flow restrictor installed and push it out with a screw driver.
The water flow rate of RV pumps drop significantly with backpressure. The cartridge filter, UV filter and water heater generate a good deal of backpressure. I tested a 3GPM pump and it did not compete with my home shower. When I switched to a 5GPM pump I get close to 2GPM water flow which rivals my home shower. The 2GPM UV filter seems like a good fit for my application.
Would love to see a update video on your system! Like you mentioned in some of your replies. Just so I better understand your system... you basically pull a gallon worth of water from fresh tanks through recirculating system into the shower pan and then the you use the gallon of water from shower pan to recirculate? I know some people that have a tank to store their recirculating water. Any reasons why you avoided this tank?
Thanks for checking out this video. Since I have no plumbing outside the van where it could freeze the recirculating water tank would be inside and higher than the shower pan. This means I would have to pump the water into the tank and then have to come up with a way to get it back into the shower pan for reuse. It seems easier to just fill a one gallon jug at the end of the shower and store the jug in the shower. This way I can check to see if it is getting too cloudy and just pour it down the sink when no longer wanted. It does take up room in the shower which is not ideal but not too bad. There are so many ways to implement a recirculating shower and my solution matches my requirements.
One other question. Is there a way to adjust the temperature on demand? Seems like as your body acclimates to the Initial set temperature you like , then you want it even hotter, (or at least I do) and would be nice to be able to crank the heat up a little bit higher while you're in the shower. Looking at the control board it looks like there's a potentiometer for adjusting the temperature. I wonder if one could be mounted/extended to the shower? I'm sure I can find a waterproof potentiometer if I can figure out what the specs are. Would really be nice to have an on-demand temperature unit.
I agree that a hotter temperature at the end of the shower is a must. I set the heater temperature to 110 degrees, slightly hotter than I would like at the end of my shower. Initially when the temperature is comfortable at the beginning of the shower I mix in "cold" water coming from the shower pan using the adjustable faucet. When I want it hotter at the end of the shower I adjust the faucet toward "hot". I would definitely avoid getting anything accessible inside the shower that could become a shock hazard. And use a GFCI circuit for your heater.
Sounds great. I wasn't sure just how much adjustability you had. If I did hook up a remote potentiometer it would be a waterproof variety. Essentially I would just be extending the wires from the one on the circuit board. As far as I know that's just low voltage, but I get your point. You don't want to electrocute yourself in the shower!
Hello Pete: Are you saving the water from one shower to the next or do you just use say one and a half gallons and dump it for each shower? If you do save it, how often does the water get changed? And I'm curious what you're using for your domestic hot water? Would be nice to utilize just one hot water heater for both the shower and cooking. I'm considering a heat exchanger to prevent contamination, but this does require two separate pumps. I could see something like a tee and a solenoid valve (both wired and switch together) so that the water is diverted to a separate hot water heater instead of the shower, or possibly a point of use heater. Any thoughts? I'll have to check the electrical requirements of the point of use variety. Such a great design I really love it.
We are still learning how to use the shower efficiently. We first thought we would reuse the water several times before pouring it down the sink or into a utility sink at a campground. So far we have only used the water once and then dumped it. Because of the slope of the shower pan and the minimal plumbing in the shower loop we only use 3/4 to 1 gallon of water for a shower for the two of us. We may play around with clearing the water with Epsom Salts to see if we could use even less water but for now we have just dumped it. I looked into a heat exchanger and a second pump and the complexity of that solution and decided on the simpler solution I show in my videos. The heat exchanger solutions can work well but I opted for small and lightweight. BTW, the heater I am using is of the point of use variety. We actually cook with spring water from 1 gallon containers and heat it in the microwave.
How long do you have to recirculate the water for it to heat up to a suitable temperature for the shower? That big water pump probably uses 8 AMPS of power while it's running, not to mention the 1800 watts for the point of use heater. I'm wondering if there is a real advantage to the point of use variety versus say just a 2.5 gallon heater. With the latter, you're not using the pump. If you start getting into heat exchangers then of course you're actually using two pumps. Trade offs to everything. With the heat exchanger you have uncontaminated water for domestic hot water. I don't have a microwave myself. And I don't know if you saw the second part of my question. Is it possible to hook up a remote potentiometer to adjust the temperature within the shower? I did look at the model you suggested for the point of use water heater and it does have an adjustable temperature range, but it looks like you need to use a screwdriver to set it. Just wondering if a waterproof variety could be wired in and installed in the shower, so you could bump the temp up a bit in use? The last thing of course is cost. The model you suggested I think is nearly $300 vs About $100 for a 2.5 gallon electric heater. I'm not arguing for one or the other mostly just making some points about things I'm considering, or thinking out loud so to speak. I think I have the mind of an engineer myself! So far, I think I have enough room for everything but we will see. I'm still months away from an install.
We put the shower head into the shower pan, add enough water to cover the drain with 1/2" to 3/4" of water and turn on the pump. The heater and pump draw 185A for 4 minutes to bring the water up to temperature, or less than 7% of my 200Ah battery capacity. The reason I am using a "boost" water heater is because it senses the temperature and drops it's power way down. My battery can run the shower for 2 hours at that power level (we don't take that long to shower ;-) If you want to raise the temperature part way through your shower you need to be able to adjust the thermostat on the water heater and wait (or plan ahead and know how long it takes to heat to higher temperature). One problem I see with a large water heater is that you contaminate a larger amount of water that sits in the water heater until it is time to dump it. We dump a smaller amount of water as soon as it gets cloudy. I think I answered the remote potentiometer part of your question in a previous reply, it might have scrolled off the reply screen. I set my heater temperature to 110 degrees and then mix "cold" water to adjust the temperature below that. No need to adjust the heater temperature while showering.
Thanks again Pete. I decided to go with a 2.5 gallon hot water heater and a heat exchanger. I think this is gonna be the best solution for my situation. The heat exchanger prevents any contamination between the shower and the domestic hot water. I like the fact too that the entire hot water unit can simply be taken off the wall and brought inside for winterization. The 4 gallon size gets pretty heavy, not to mention it takes up more space, and I think 2.5 gallons is plenty for washing dishes. One problem I can potentially see is if your water temperature is set too high, then you're going to be drawing cold water from your onboard tank and wasting water unnecessarily.
Great Video, I appreciate the time and efforts you put into reserching and Testing you system. I also like that you built a system that takes up very little space. I'm close to starting on my van plumbing, although I will be using the hydronic system already in the van, I will definitely be copying your build. I do have a question. What are your thoughts on winterizing your set up? Thank you again.
In general we will be storing the van in our garage which is always above freezing. All of the pluming is inside the van and while on the road we will keep the interior of the van above freezing. In the event we cannot keep the van warm I plan to flush the system with RV antifreeze.
I initially found it in a recirculating shower comment thread. I since noticed in the Loopz. Make sure to mount it vertically so air does not get trapped allowing the LEDs to overheat.
It is working out great in real life. We are not using the shower as often as we thought but it is still well worth the space for the times we need it. I plan to do a video on how we use and maintain the shower after we get more experience with the shower.
Hey Pete there is another Stiebel water heater that doesn't have the Thermostatic control like yours, It's a little cheaper. Mini 2-1 231045. Did you consider this one ? As essentially it seems as though by removing the flow restrictor you have basically taken the smarts out of your unit and turned it into a mechanical heater, that just heats as much as it can if it's under temperature no matter what the flow rate is. Am i on the right track or is there some other reason you picked the one you are using?
I removed the flow restrictor to get a good flow rate to the shower head. The water is not brought up to temperature in the first pass through the heater, the recirculating water takes several passes through the heater and about 4 minutes to come up to final temperature. When first starting to heat the water the power is 1800W but after the water comes up to temperature the power is cut back by the thermostatic control to around 500W, just enough to keep the water at a constant temperature.
Would you mind sharing how you removed the flow restrictor from the water heater? Also can you post a link to the Plastic Magnetic Water Flow Control Sensor? I see some on Amazon but they're 220Vac.
I completely removed the restrictor but I had to tweak the flow switch that turns on the heating element to get it to activate at an even lower water flow for mixing with the "cold" water from the shower pan. The shower works without the tweak but it would be nice to get more adjustability. To remove the flow restrictor you need to use a Torx driver to remove both end caps. Be careful to not damage what I assume is the temperature sensor. Once the end caps are removed you can look down the water channels and you will see one with a restriction. You can push the restrictor out of the channel with a screwdriver. The end caps can then be replaced. Maybe you can do me a favor. I did not make note in which water channel the restrictor was located and which direction the restrictor was oriented. Before you remove the restrictor can you please take a picture and let me know which channel has the restrictor and its orientation. Send the picture to fivepoundpete@gmail.com. The flow switch needs a certain amount of internal backpressure to be activated. Since I still have the original flow restrictor I would like to experiment to see if there is a larger hole that could be put in the restrictor to get good nominal water flow and an even lower flow rate that still activates the flow switch. A lower flow rate while still operating the heater would allow mixing an even smaller amount of hot water with the "cool" water from the shower pan to extend the range of temperature adjustability.
@@fivepoundpete Hey. I'm working on this at the moment and I removed the flow restrictor, I took some photos I can send them to you. I'm having a different problem now and I wonder if you had the same issue. Now that I've removed the flow restrictor the heater is pulling 16.5A and it's tripping the power strip I was using a backup switch. I'm wondering if you noticed that behavior? I'm testing this setup with a bucket of water and I don't have any shower head on the output. I'm wondering if there's just too much flow now without a shower head that the heating element never gets hot enough and therefore resistive enough to draw less than 15A. Also, can you describe how you modified the flow switch? I don't have a shower head attached to my test rig but when I restrict the flow with my thumb the flow switch turns off earlier than I'd expect. Thanks!
@ZillaYT : The flow switch I got from Amazon at this URL: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FDV8R18/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 The switch is rated for any voltage below 220V. I am running mine at 12V.
@RossGuarino: Originally I purchased the 2400W version of the heater and found it pulled more than 2400W which my battery could not deliver. I ended up using the 1800W version. At 16.5A times 110V the heater is pulling 1815W which is very close to the rated power. I think the heater is functioning properly. I went back to look, and it turns out that I did not modify the heater flow switch. It is still working even with some back pressure from my shower head. But now I think I will not put the flow restrictor back (to maintain the highest possible water flow rate) but instead try to reduce the strength of the spring that is keeping the flow switch open. This would require disassembling the switch mechanism but might be worth it to get the heater to operate at a lower flow rate. Please let me know if you attempt to reduce the spring strength and how it works out. Thanks.
The total wet bath cost was $3000 including $300 tax and shipping. Just the recirculating shower part was $900 with lots of plumbing fittings left over. You know how it goes, you need 2 fittings but they come in a package of 10. The wet bath big ticket items are: Price w/ Tax and shipping Thetford C402CL Cassette Toilet, Self Contained $ 625.00 $ 733.96 Nautilus 59.5"x36" RD RV Shower Door Opaque Plain - White $ 260.80 $ 295.80 STIEBEL ELTRON Mini-E 2-1 120VAC, Electric Tankless Water Heater $ 239.00 $ 250.71 Three sheets of 1/2" 4'x8' Pre Finished Birch Plywood $ 199.65 $ 216.41 PearlAqua Micro UV Filter $ 175.00 $ 195.00 S594 Boat Caravan RV Camper White Triangular Sink and faucet $ 149.99 $ 157.34 SEAFLO 55-Series Water Pressure 5GPM Diaphragm Pump $ 129.99 $ 136.36 ICON RV shower pan, 27”x 24", white $ 124.49 $ 134.94 Plus 44 line items under $100 that add up to another $900! In general I picked well engineered and high quality items. I am sure with effort you could find lower cost options.
Nice video! Did you really compare 3x filters VS your three in one? Iʼm wondering if it clog up quite faster and how it is compared to cleaning it. Iʼm thinking to live one year in my van so all thoses details are quite important... Also Iʼm trying to find thoses types of 3in1 filters in Europe with no luck currently...
I did not prototype a three cartridge setup to compare to the 3-in-1solution. I expect I will need to replace the 3-in-1 cartridge twice as often but it costs roughly half as much as three separate cartridges. The 3-in-1 solution is a much lighter solution, fits under the sink, and is more convenient to change. I found several manufacturers of the 3-in-1 style cartridges on Amazon, good luck finding equivalents in Europe.
@@fivepoundpete Thanks for the detailed answer! So you only compared different 3in1 filters? You also say you tried a few UV filters, could you say which ones you compared it with to make your choice?
I only tried the PurePlus 5 micron filter and haven't done an extended field test. I will see how long they last and may try another brand once I run out of filters. I didn't find an alternative to the PearlAqua Micro UV filter and I didn't try very hard since it seems perfect for my application.
Good to know. Since we only use 1 gallon for the two of us per shower we are currently just discarding the used water into the wash basin at a campground or into our grey water tank.
Hi Pete, thank you for the videos, we're in the planning stages. Currently 'weighing' the options of a larger fresh water tank vs recirculating shower. As a follow-up video maybe you can show the maintenance routine required for your system. That's one of the items we need to consider.
After we have a lot more experience using the shower I was thinking of doing a video on 1) how to efficiently use the recirculating shower, 2) how long the filters last before cleaning/replacing, and 3) how to maintain the shower for short term and long term storage. My wife and I use less than a gallon of water to take our showers. We use even less if we save and reuse the gallon of water a second or third time. The weight and space savings for carrying only 5 to 10 gallons of water instead of 20 to 40 gallons is huge.
Any update on this mate?
Hi Pete! This is the best-designed recirculating shower I've seen so far and I love your strategy of using a low-power electric in-line heater and cycling the water until it's up to temp. I'm planning on doing the same in my trailer conversion. It's really amusing to realize that I've basically created a tank-style water heater... with a walk-in tank! :) I've bought a 110V in-line heater that uses standard screw-in water tank heating elements and swapped out the 3.5kW one for a 1.5kW one that my inverter can handle. I like this solution better than the heater you use because I can repair and replace things in my unit more easily. (I could even put a DC heating element in it someday, as long as the thermal cutoff switch and relay could handle the higher current.)
I have one (well, for now, LOL) main question about your system -- do you think it's a problem to have such an overpowered pump running continuously at such low flow rates? I would worry about it perhaps decreasing the lifespan or leading to overheating. Usually fresh water systems have an accumulator tank to allow the pump to run intermittently. I was looking at the Aquatec variable speed pumps but they're expensive.
I am planning on incorporating two spin-down filters and making my filtration/UV/pump system into a modular unit that I can unplug and carry down to a lake or stream to filter and pump water back in through my garden hose fill port. This will be the same hardware used for the shower recirculation which should get me a lot of functionality for the amount of space/monetary investment. :) Thank you for sharing about the AquiSense LED UV filters. Makes WAY more sense than the mercury systems I was looking at. I'll try to get them to sell me one, too. :P
Much gratitude!
... a walk-in hot water tank...very funny! But true😊 I like my in-line water heater because I only need to heat enough water to cover the shower drain and not suck air, about 1/2", or usually less than a gallon.
Something else I haven't pointed out is that any heat loss from the UV filter and water heater is captured inside the under sink cowling and helps keep the water warm.
While taking a shower the pump does not experience enough back pressure to turn off. The flow rate is large enough to not trip the pressure switch so the pump runs continuously. I don't think it should overheat but I will keep an eye on it. An accumulator tank would be useful to lengthen the on-off cycles if the pump was frequently cycling. With your setup and pump an accumulator may be necessary.
I know many recirculating shower designs use a spin down filter. I have a screen that I added magnets to at the shower drain to make sure hair and large debris can't reach the pump. I also have a prefilter right at the pump intake to catch smaller debris. I don't know how much additional debris is removed by a spin down filter that makes it past the prefilters. Does anyone know how much debris is typically captured in the spin down filter and whether it is worth adding one?
I only plan to fill my fresh water tanks with potable water through a small in-line water filter at campground water spigots. If you are pulling water from lakes and streams your system sound terrific.
Yes, I think your recirculation strategy (especially with the shower pan screen) probably doesn't need a spin-down filter! But I expect it to be important for filtering surface water, e.g. from muddy streams and lakes. :) Another fun aspect of my system -- I collect the rainwater from my roof and it empties into my shower pan, so I will use the same filter system to pump that into my fresh water tank. (I will probably let the first few minutes drain straight out the bottom though before plugging my drain and letting the pump fill my tank, because the first bit of rain usually carries all the contaminants off the roof!)
Good point about the pump flow rate and pressure switch. I will need to make sure that I use a high enough flow rate, and/or a high enough pump cutoff pressure, to keep the pump running continuously. I think a high pressure but lower flow rate pump would be best for this. You've inspired me to ditch the expensive variable speed pump. :) (If I really need to, I think I could decrease the power output with a PWM controller.)
You may have noticed that I never pump recirculated shower water back into my fresh water tanks, I keep those tanks pristine. Shower water is either reused for more showers, pumped into the toilet flush tank, or sent down the sink into the grey water tank. Good luck on your plumbing solution.
Excellent work. Whilst considering how best to convert my truck I did idly consider whether it would be possible to do something like this and now, by complete accident, I find someone who has not only done it but has also taken the time and trouble to share it here. Many thanks. Well worth a subs+1. 👍
I am glad you find the all-electric recirculating shower of interest. Good luck on your truck conversion.
Nicely presented. Like how you conveyed the trial & error build process to get it right! Many thanks 🙏🏼
During pressure testing of the fittings in my driveway I found the silicone tubing works great for the low pressure lines but I used a 9-inch flex stainless steel braided supply line from the pump to the filter cartridge.
@@fivepoundpete thanks 😊
Just found your channel & subscribed. Thanks for all the info. Currently planning van #2
Welcome aboard!
Hi Pete, thank you so much for this video and build
Very welcome.
Pete, a clear, detailed video. Thanx!
Very welcome
Excellent ! I think this is the best model !
It is working well so far.
Very simple idea. , I have built a recerculating shower in my caravan , and it works well
I would suggest you use not 1 filter. But at least 2 , because from expeariance. I can tell you that soap will clog your one filter very quick , we can get a few showers out of ours. No problem.
We also only use1 tap for the shower pretty much set the temperature and that’s all. We also use gas
To heat the water as it doesn’t use any power.
Congratulations on having a recirculating shower in your caravan. So far my shower is working well. We use glycerin based soaps to reduce the amount of filter clogging. I am using a single filter cartridge but with a layered filter that effectively acts like three separate filters. By using the sink faucet to mix the hot water and the somewhat cooler recirculating water each user can adjust the temperature to their liking. One of my goals was to build an all electric van (other than the engine) to eliminate any flames inside the van. Since I am heating only 3 quarts of water, it uses less than 10% of my 200Ah battery. Once the water is heated the power drops so low you could take a two hour shower without depleting the battery, most of the power is used by the pump.
If you want a filter to remove soaps in real time check out the Wavebrite Gray water module. Its not cheap but it works! I wish it came in a smaller size because its the ticket! Also check out the Nano Ceram filters an how they work. They also told me just use them as the sediment filter as well, plus now some have carbon added in for smell etc. Just my 2 cents for what its worth and just sharing my experience an research.
Best one I've seen. Great! I subscribed.
Welcome aboard!
Just wanted to mention here to anyone putting this system together you can buy the Pearl Aqua filter with an automatic flow switch for less money at a place called The Water guy in Canada. Amazon sells this for $450 and you still have to wire and buy a flow switch. The one from Canada is $270 and it comes with a flow switch. Much better deal and less work. Win win. I can also say that many flow switches will restrict water flow as well, so beware.
Good info. Thanks.
Happy to contribute a little bit Pete! I wish the Pearl Aqua came in half inch instead of 3/8 size. It's no wonder the water flow is restricted. I finally have all my parts together so close to assembly. I'll see if I can shoot a video of the whole thing when I'm done.
Let us know how it works for you.
Will do Pete. I'll try to document my progress on video.
So brilliant, thank you for sharing! 1. How often does the filter need changed?
2. Can the filter be cleaned and reused?
3. Are certain kinds of soaps and shampoo better for this system than others?
1. What we have done so far is to replace the filter after each one to two week adventure so we really don't know how many showers we can take with a single filter. We found if we don't disinfect the system between outing, maybe for a week or two, the unfiltered and undisinfected water in the filter cartridge smells like pond scum.
2. I chose to use a single layered filter that is inexpensive enough to just use a new filter for each outing.
3. We use a glycerin based soap such as Dr. Bonners. Without the oils in regular soap the filter seems to last longer.
Fantastic video, thanks Pete. I'm wondering how you landed on the Stiebel Eltron for your water heater? What specs were you looking for in particular and do you know whether any/most heaters would have a flow restrictor that could be removed? And is there an optimum flow through the water heater?... Assumedly too fast and it won't heat properly and obviously too slow is a rubbish shower.
I looked at several on-demand under sink water heaters and a boost water heater is what I chose. None of them I looked at had water flow rates good enough for a shower. They all restrict the flow rate to what they can heat on-demand to a hot temperature. In a recirculating shower you don't need to heat the water up to full temperature in a single pass. I wanted a 2400W heater but my battery inverter combination could not quite deliver the slightly higher power that the Stiebel Eltron heater needed. I settled for an 1800W unit but that is OK it just takes a little longer to heat the water. The 1800W heater raises the temperature approximately 6 degrees per pass. After the water circulates through the heater for about 4 minutes it is up to full temperature. Once up to temperature you can mix it with slightly cooler shower pan water to regulate the temperature. You want to maintain enough water flow through the heater to keep the heating element energized. I hope this clarifies how the recirculating shower heats the water.
Hi Pete and thank you for this video, where did you buy your UV AquiSense Technologies PearlAqua Micro I cant find it ? thank you
I contacted AquiSense directly and made it clear I knew the limitations of installing the filter. The LEDs in the filter use water to keep them cool so they are not damaged. The filter must be mounted vertically so on air can be trapped in the filter. Second the filter must be paired with a flow switch to ensure that water is flowing to the filter before power is applied. With a few email exchanges they agreed to sell me filter.
Are there special soaps needed for the recirculating shower? I researched this topic a few years back. All of my research kept coming back with soaps clogging the filter media too quickly to make the system usable. Thanks.
According to my research, glycerin based soaps like Dr. Bonners and Neutrogena work well in recirculation showers to reduce the clogging of the filters.
I had the same question.
Hey Pete! This is great, I have based my design off of yours. Can you tell me how you went about removing the flow restrictor? Do you have any pictures or videos?
To remove the flow restrictor (which voids the warranty) I took the two end caps off (lots of Torx screws). Then you can look down the water channels and see which one has the flow restrictor installed and push it out with a screw driver. Make a note of which channel had the flow restrictor in case you want to put it back. I do not have pictures or videos on removing the flow restrictor. It has been awhile but I recall there is a temperature sensor attached to one of the end caps. Be careful not to damage the connection to the sensor.
I too have been working on this! I have been using an I-Heat shower head that runs on 110 an you can control temperature. I have gone with the nano ceram filters that remove everything and have a high flow rate but also I dont need the UV light because these filters remove virus/cyst etc! The big issue Im having is using a Wavebrite Gray water module (24 inches) that removes all soaps/oils/shampoos etc in real time and figuring out the best way to hook it up because of its size. As far as I know its the only filter in the world that can remove soaps in real time, so I need to figure it out. I would like to run water through it for only the time needed to remove the soaps then bypass it as its good for like 5000 gallons an I would like to make it last., You can send filter module back in and have it refurbished! I love your sink shower set up! Nice!
Interesting selection of products. The I-Heat shower head brings 110V into the shower head and is a little unnerving. The one I saw tries to heat water in one pass and consumes 2.5Kw which is beyond my battery's current capacity. The filter cartridge seems expensive but I might try it someday to see if it works better and lasts much longer than my particle filter.
@@fivepoundpete Ya I don't have it in the shower I have it hooked up right after the filter and have a hose with shower wand coming into the shower stall. I can open the curtain to adjust temperature. It starts on high so you do need a good inverter, I wish it didnt start out on high because it has like 4 settings and I usually can get by on the 3rd setting which also lowers electrical consumption..My system right now is portable but not portable enough yet (lol). Like you found out circulating the water does not take as much energy once warmed up. Trying to go small but yet robust is a challenge when using off the shelf parts. Tghe 2.5Kw is to powerful next one down is better for what Im doing. I did look at the one you used but flow wasent good enough (which you fixed!) but then I was trying to figure out how to control temp range. Anyway since you were good enough to share I was just passing along what I have learned. Just my 2 cents and passing it along to you! Good Luck I love seeing what others are doing! Im still trying to find a better quieter pump!
I have a 3000W inverter which had no problem with a Stiebel Eltron 2.4Kw heater model but when I tried it the combination of the inverter loss and the pump power exceeded my 200A battery current capability. I am using the 1.8Kw model and can live with a few more minutes to bring the water up to temperature to avoid using a second battery (cost, volume and weight). let me know if you find a quieter 5 GPM pump.
@@fivepoundpete Check out the Loopz Shower which is very very simple not much filtration but sometimes simple is best. They are working on a heater but its not ready. Reminds me of an aquarium heater (which I tried but they dont get hot enough (so they dont kill the fish) Just FYI.....
I am familiar with the Loopz Shower and it is a pretty cool product for outdoor camping. I would recommend the LoopZ Plus with the UV filter that kills viruses and bacteria.
Hey Pete would love to see how you have installed all of these in your van. Also any further thoughts from this video after installation and if you would change anything.
I think the next video will be on how I installed the shower. I'll keep in mind to comment on any changes I would make.
Hello Pete: I'm running into a little bit of an issue and wanted to see if I could get some feedback from you. Since I'm using the exact same shower pan as you, and the same diameter hose from the shower pan drain (3/8") I'm thinking you must have run into the same issue I'm having. The problem is cavitation/ventilation, and of course, the simple answer is more water, so air doesn't get sucked into the pump.
I'm up to 1.5 gallons, and I was actually hoping to get by on even less, but 1.5 seems to be just about a bare minimum with my current setup, and still having issues if I momentarily block the water, which I could certainly see doing during a shower. If the tiniest amount of air is sucked into the pump, then water flow is severely diminished until the prime is reestablished.
One thing I found is that by breaking up the water flow via a screen that seems to help, so I think I might be on to something there. With just the bare drain with no screen I end up forming a whirlpool where air is sucked in (not good). Right now I have one of those screens used for catching hair, and that is helping, but it spins around due to all the turbulence. I don't have the sediment filter installed or UV filter, just a prefilter at this point. Slowing the flow rate down I'm sure would help, but that's actually not what I want to do as I don't even feel it's super powerful at this point. I'm using the smaller three gallon pump, not the 5 gallon you have. A more powerful pump is just going to make the situation worse.
Anything you have found to help eliminate the cavitation issues? I even have my shower pan tilted about 1/2 inch over stock, so that more water is collecting around drain (The equivalent of probably two gallons of water in the pan). I'm thinking that an accumulator tank might help a little bit, but the bottom line is I think any air that is introduced into the system is going to break the prime.
Not quite sure what direction to take. It seems like either more water or a slower flow rates are the answers and I really don't want to change either one. If anything I want to increase water pressure with even less water.
I have a few ideas why I have not seen your problem. I do have a screen in the shower pan drain to catch hair and this probably prevents the vortex you describe. I also added a pair of magnets to the screen to hold it down so hair couldn't sneak by. The magnets prevent it from spinning around.
The geometry of the drain could also come into play. Mine is very shallow. I have a video on how I made it.
The 3 GPM pump without any back pressure from the sediment filter, UV filter and heater is probably pushing more flow than what I see while taking a shower. I only need about 1/2" of water above the drain to prevent cavitation and this is typically 3 to 4 quarts depending how level the van is parked.
Just a note: with the water only flowing though the heater the flow rate is OK but by bypassing some water through the "cold" water line I get a great flow rate with a 5 GPM pump.
Let me know how any of your experiments come out.
My drain design is very similar to yours. About 1" tall. This set up would actually make the issue worse, not better though. I'm not sure where you're going with that. Imagine if you had a 6 inch tall cylinder where you were drawing water from the bottom and it was going in at the top. No way you're going to create cavitation with something this deep without a huge amount of pressure. It's the shallowness that is actually allowing pressure to break the surface tension of the water, which introduces air. Technically this is considered ventilation, whereas I think cavitation refers to turbulence introducing air. Some of this comes from the boating world and propellers, but similar things happen in a blender if you don't have enough liquid. I'm not sure which is the correct term here, but the effect is the same. Air is being sucked into the system.
No question that back pressure is going to slow the flow. The filter housing may solve the problem all by itself. To my way of thinking what I need to do is slow the flow without affecting pressure. What are your thoughts here? The question is what's the best way to accomplish this?
Let me just get the filter hooked up today and the shower head. Both of those is going to increase back pressure. And I'll try some magnets for the filter screen. I was already planning to use magnets to hold the shower curtain in place. I purposely added some ferrous metal behind the pan to allow for this.
I already made a video about this but, not uploaded yet. Perhaps I will upload part one of my video series and you can see what I'm doing. I can't post a link here but just do a search on youtube for a fold- down recirculating shower for a van. I'll try to upload that later today.
I added the filter housing today, and that helped. To get things where there's only about 1/2 inch of water there's still about a gallon and a half of water being used as now you need to use another quart or so to fill up the filter and lines. An additional "head" height of the shower wand is going to further increase backflow. I can definitely see the need for a stronger pump now, and water flow has been significantly reduced. Looks like a check valve will probably be needed as well. My first video was uploaded but won't be available for viewing until tomorrow. Again do a search for "Fold down Recirculating shower" Part 1 You tube won't allow links.
Hi Pete, I'm quite new to this so please excuse my ignorance, but I'm trying to work out how I can get the most out of this system. I really want to be able to have several showers without having to refill and drain the water all the time. Does this system work well for that?
I was wondering as well if fitting a fresh and waste water tank to this system in parellel might help in that effort? So that one could refill and drain the recirculted water when it gets too dirty. I don't know if that would work.
Hope all is well and looking forward to any updates :)
After each shower we empty the shower pan water by pointing the shower head into a 1 gallon clear water jug. This way we can look at how clear it is and either reuse it (we leave the water jug in the shower pan) or pour it down the drain into the grey water tank.
I think our water jug solution works well and eliminates the complexity of adding parallel tanks. We use a bungee cord around the water filter to keep the jug from moving around.
Hey there, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this and it's been a few months and I've watched this video multiple times, I was wondering if this was in the van and has been used and tested and what is the summary? You definitely opened my eyes on a smaller, less complicated version of a recirculating shower and I'm at that stage of my build where I'll be buying and getting this in place. Thank you for these videos and for the future answer...Joe
We used the shower a few times on our maiden voyage and it worked well with great water pressure and steady adjustable temperature. I want to take dozens of showers before I report on how often the filter needs to be replaced. So far we are delighted with its performance.
@@fivepoundpete follow up question(s). I got the Aquisense filter and the water heater. Can you show the 12V power to the Aquisense since it has a power adapter block. Also, can you show where/how you changed the water heater for flow control? Even just a few pictures would be incredibly helpful. Please and thank you.
I bought the Aquisense filter directly from the manufacturer without a power adapter, it came with a two wire 12V lead. You might contact the manufacturer for advice on how to use yours in a 12V system.
To remove the flow restrictor (and void the warranty) I took the two end caps off the water heater (lots of Torx screws). Then you can look down the water channels and see which one has the flow restrictor installed and push it out with a screw driver.
Great vid. Did leave me wondering though, how efficient is a 2gpm uv filter in a 5gpm system?
The water flow rate of RV pumps drop significantly with backpressure. The cartridge filter, UV filter and water heater generate a good deal of backpressure. I tested a 3GPM pump and it did not compete with my home shower. When I switched to a 5GPM pump I get close to 2GPM water flow which rivals my home shower. The 2GPM UV filter seems like a good fit for my application.
Brilliant!
Thanks for watching.
Would love to see a update video on your system! Like you mentioned in some of your replies.
Just so I better understand your system... you basically pull a gallon worth of water from fresh tanks through recirculating system into the shower pan and then the you use the gallon of water from shower pan to recirculate? I know some people that have a tank to store their recirculating water. Any reasons why you avoided this tank?
Thanks for checking out this video.
Since I have no plumbing outside the van where it could freeze the recirculating water tank would be inside and higher than the shower pan. This means I would have to pump the water into the tank and then have to come up with a way to get it back into the shower pan for reuse. It seems easier to just fill a one gallon jug at the end of the shower and store the jug in the shower. This way I can check to see if it is getting too cloudy and just pour it down the sink when no longer wanted. It does take up room in the shower which is not ideal but not too bad. There are so many ways to implement a recirculating shower and my solution matches my requirements.
One other question. Is there a way to adjust the temperature on demand? Seems like as your body acclimates to the Initial set temperature you like , then you want it even hotter, (or at least I do) and would be nice to be able to crank the heat up a little bit higher while you're in the shower. Looking at the control board it looks like there's a potentiometer for adjusting the temperature. I wonder if one could be mounted/extended to the shower? I'm sure I can find a waterproof potentiometer if I can figure out what the specs are. Would really be nice to have an on-demand temperature unit.
I agree that a hotter temperature at the end of the shower is a must. I set the heater temperature to 110 degrees, slightly hotter than I would like at the end of my shower. Initially when the temperature is comfortable at the beginning of the shower I mix in "cold" water coming from the shower pan using the adjustable faucet. When I want it hotter at the end of the shower I adjust the faucet toward "hot".
I would definitely avoid getting anything accessible inside the shower that could become a shock hazard. And use a GFCI circuit for your heater.
Sounds great. I wasn't sure just how much adjustability you had. If I did hook up a remote potentiometer it would be a waterproof variety. Essentially I would just be extending the wires from the one on the circuit board. As far as I know that's just low voltage, but I get your point. You don't want to electrocute yourself in the shower!
Hello Pete: Are you saving the water from one shower to the next or do you just use say one and a half gallons and dump it for each shower? If you do save it, how often does the water get changed? And I'm curious what you're using for your domestic hot water? Would be nice to utilize just one hot water heater for both the shower and cooking. I'm considering a heat exchanger to prevent contamination, but this does require two separate pumps. I could see something like a tee and a solenoid valve (both wired and switch together) so that the water is diverted to a separate hot water heater instead of the shower, or possibly a point of use heater. Any thoughts? I'll have to check the electrical requirements of the point of use variety. Such a great design I really love it.
We are still learning how to use the shower efficiently. We first thought we would reuse the water several times before pouring it down the sink or into a utility sink at a campground. So far we have only used the water once and then dumped it. Because of the slope of the shower pan and the minimal plumbing in the shower loop we only use 3/4 to 1 gallon of water for a shower for the two of us. We may play around with clearing the water with Epsom Salts to see if we could use even less water but for now we have just dumped it.
I looked into a heat exchanger and a second pump and the complexity of that solution and decided on the simpler solution I show in my videos. The heat exchanger solutions can work well but I opted for small and lightweight. BTW, the heater I am using is of the point of use variety.
We actually cook with spring water from 1 gallon containers and heat it in the microwave.
How long do you have to recirculate the water for it to heat up to a suitable temperature for the shower? That big water pump probably uses 8 AMPS of power while it's running, not to mention the 1800 watts for the point of use heater. I'm wondering if there is a real advantage to the point of use variety versus say just a 2.5 gallon heater. With the latter, you're not using the pump. If you start getting into heat exchangers then of course you're actually using two pumps. Trade offs to everything. With the heat exchanger you have uncontaminated water for domestic hot water. I don't have a microwave myself. And I don't know if you saw the second part of my question. Is it possible to hook up a remote potentiometer to adjust the temperature within the shower? I did look at the model you suggested for the point of use water heater and it does have an adjustable temperature range, but it looks like you need to use a screwdriver to set it. Just wondering if a waterproof variety could be wired in and installed in the shower, so you could bump the temp up a bit in use? The last thing of course is cost. The model you suggested I think is nearly $300 vs About $100 for a 2.5 gallon electric heater. I'm not arguing for one or the other mostly just making some points about things I'm considering, or thinking out loud so to speak. I think I have the mind of an engineer myself! So far, I think I have enough room for everything but we will see. I'm still months away from an install.
We put the shower head into the shower pan, add enough water to cover the drain with 1/2" to 3/4" of water and turn on the pump. The heater and pump draw 185A for 4 minutes to bring the water up to temperature, or less than 7% of my 200Ah battery capacity. The reason I am using a "boost" water heater is because it senses the temperature and drops it's power way down. My battery can run the shower for 2 hours at that power level (we don't take that long to shower ;-) If you want to raise the temperature part way through your shower you need to be able to adjust the thermostat on the water heater and wait (or plan ahead and know how long it takes to heat to higher temperature). One problem I see with a large water heater is that you contaminate a larger amount of water that sits in the water heater until it is time to dump it. We dump a smaller amount of water as soon as it gets cloudy.
I think I answered the remote potentiometer part of your question in a previous reply, it might have scrolled off the reply screen. I set my heater temperature to 110 degrees and then mix "cold" water to adjust the temperature below that. No need to adjust the heater temperature while showering.
Thanks again Pete. I decided to go with a 2.5 gallon hot water heater and a heat exchanger. I think this is gonna be the best solution for my situation. The heat exchanger prevents any contamination between the shower and the domestic hot water. I like the fact too that the entire hot water unit can simply be taken off the wall and brought inside for winterization. The 4 gallon size gets pretty heavy, not to mention it takes up more space, and I think 2.5 gallons is plenty for washing dishes. One problem I can potentially see is if your water temperature is set too high, then you're going to be drawing cold water from your onboard tank and wasting water unnecessarily.
Good luck on your van build! Don't forget to winterize your heat exchanger.
Great Video, I appreciate the time and efforts you put into reserching and Testing you system. I also like that you built a system that takes up very little space. I'm close to starting on my van plumbing, although I will be using the hydronic system already in the van, I will definitely be copying your build. I do have a question. What are your thoughts on winterizing your set up? Thank you again.
In general we will be storing the van in our garage which is always above freezing. All of the pluming is inside the van and while on the road we will keep the interior of the van above freezing. In the event we cannot keep the van warm I plan to flush the system with RV antifreeze.
Interestingly there’s a product called Loopz that uses that same inline small UV filter.
I initially found it in a recirculating shower comment thread. I since noticed in the Loopz. Make sure to mount it vertically so air does not get trapped allowing the LEDs to overheat.
How did this work out in real life? I’m installing a recirculating shower in my van.
It is working out great in real life. We are not using the shower as often as we thought but it is still well worth the space for the times we need it. I plan to do a video on how we use and maintain the shower after we get more experience with the shower.
Hey Pete there is another Stiebel water heater that doesn't have the Thermostatic control like yours, It's a little cheaper. Mini 2-1 231045. Did you consider this one ? As essentially it seems as though by removing the flow restrictor you have basically taken the smarts out of your unit and turned it into a mechanical heater, that just heats as much as it can if it's under temperature no matter what the flow rate is. Am i on the right track or is there some other reason you picked the one you are using?
I removed the flow restrictor to get a good flow rate to the shower head. The water is not brought up to temperature in the first pass through the heater, the recirculating water takes several passes through the heater and about 4 minutes to come up to final temperature. When first starting to heat the water the power is 1800W but after the water comes up to temperature the power is cut back by the thermostatic control to around 500W, just enough to keep the water at a constant temperature.
Would you mind sharing how you removed the flow restrictor from the water heater? Also can you post a link to the Plastic Magnetic Water Flow Control Sensor? I see some on Amazon but they're 220Vac.
I completely removed the restrictor but I had to tweak the flow switch that turns on the heating element to get it to activate at an even lower water flow for mixing with the "cold" water from the shower pan. The shower works without the tweak but it would be nice to get more adjustability.
To remove the flow restrictor you need to use a Torx driver to remove both end caps. Be careful to not damage what I assume is the temperature sensor. Once the end caps are removed you can look down the water channels and you will see one with a restriction. You can push the restrictor out of the channel with a screwdriver. The end caps can then be replaced.
Maybe you can do me a favor. I did not make note in which water channel the restrictor was located and which direction the restrictor was oriented. Before you remove the restrictor can you please take a picture and let me know which channel has the restrictor and its orientation. Send the picture to fivepoundpete@gmail.com. The flow switch needs a certain amount of internal backpressure to be activated. Since I still have the original flow restrictor I would like to experiment to see if there is a larger hole that could be put in the restrictor to get good nominal water flow and an even lower flow rate that still activates the flow switch. A lower flow rate while still operating the heater would allow mixing an even smaller amount of hot water with the "cool" water from the shower pan to extend the range of temperature adjustability.
@@fivepoundpete Hey. I'm working on this at the moment and I removed the flow restrictor, I took some photos I can send them to you.
I'm having a different problem now and I wonder if you had the same issue. Now that I've removed the flow restrictor the heater is pulling 16.5A and it's tripping the power strip I was using a backup switch. I'm wondering if you noticed that behavior?
I'm testing this setup with a bucket of water and I don't have any shower head on the output. I'm wondering if there's just too much flow now without a shower head that the heating element never gets hot enough and therefore resistive enough to draw less than 15A.
Also, can you describe how you modified the flow switch? I don't have a shower head attached to my test rig but when I restrict the flow with my thumb the flow switch turns off earlier than I'd expect.
Thanks!
@ZillaYT : The flow switch I got from Amazon at this URL: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FDV8R18/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The switch is rated for any voltage below 220V. I am running mine at 12V.
@RossGuarino: Originally I purchased the 2400W version of the heater and found it pulled more than 2400W which my battery could not deliver. I ended up using the 1800W version. At 16.5A times 110V the heater is pulling 1815W which is very close to the rated power. I think the heater is functioning properly.
I went back to look, and it turns out that I did not modify the heater flow switch. It is still working even with some back pressure from my shower head. But now I think I will not put the flow restrictor back (to maintain the highest possible water flow rate) but instead try to reduce the strength of the spring that is keeping the flow switch open. This would require disassembling the switch mechanism but might be worth it to get the heater to operate at a lower flow rate.
Please let me know if you attempt to reduce the spring strength and how it works out.
Thanks.
Do you know how much it cot to make your recirculating shower?
The total wet bath cost was $3000 including $300 tax and shipping. Just the recirculating shower part was $900 with lots of plumbing fittings left over. You know how it goes, you need 2 fittings but they come in a package of 10.
The wet bath big ticket items are: Price w/ Tax and shipping
Thetford C402CL Cassette Toilet, Self Contained $ 625.00 $ 733.96
Nautilus 59.5"x36" RD RV Shower Door Opaque Plain - White $ 260.80 $ 295.80
STIEBEL ELTRON Mini-E 2-1 120VAC, Electric Tankless Water Heater $ 239.00 $ 250.71
Three sheets of 1/2" 4'x8' Pre Finished Birch Plywood $ 199.65 $ 216.41
PearlAqua Micro UV Filter $ 175.00 $ 195.00
S594 Boat Caravan RV Camper White Triangular Sink and faucet $ 149.99 $ 157.34
SEAFLO 55-Series Water Pressure 5GPM Diaphragm Pump $ 129.99 $ 136.36
ICON RV shower pan, 27”x 24", white $ 124.49 $ 134.94
Plus 44 line items under $100 that add up to another $900!
In general I picked well engineered and high quality items. I am sure with effort you could find lower cost options.
Nice video! Did you really compare 3x filters VS your three in one? Iʼm wondering if it clog up quite faster and how it is compared to cleaning it. Iʼm thinking to live one year in my van so all thoses details are quite important... Also Iʼm trying to find thoses types of 3in1 filters in Europe with no luck currently...
I did not prototype a three cartridge setup to compare to the 3-in-1solution. I expect I will need to replace the 3-in-1 cartridge twice as often but it costs roughly half as much as three separate cartridges. The 3-in-1 solution is a much lighter solution, fits under the sink, and is more convenient to change.
I found several manufacturers of the 3-in-1 style cartridges on Amazon, good luck finding equivalents in Europe.
@@fivepoundpete Thanks for the detailed answer! So you only compared different 3in1 filters? You also say you tried a few UV filters, could you say which ones you compared it with to make your choice?
I only tried the PurePlus 5 micron filter and haven't done an extended field test. I will see how long they last and may try another brand once I run out of filters. I didn't find an alternative to the PearlAqua Micro UV filter and I didn't try very hard since it seems perfect for my application.
Thanks for sharing! How’s the build coming?
I'm making good progress.
Use aluminum sulfate to coagulate the soap and remove it from the water.
Good to know. Since we only use 1 gallon for the two of us per shower we are currently just discarding the used water into the wash basin at a campground or into our grey water tank.
Hey pete,
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