Asking yourself "So What" helps you return to the conscious and focus on what is important. We also need to understand individual differences and stop being biased especially while hiring. Thanks for this great advice. Really insightful!
Love this. Needed to hear it. I feel less anxious about looking for a different job, without feeling unconsciously discriminated against. That's my biggest fear whenever I go to a job interview that I'll be judged for the complexion of my skin, and everything else the list goes on. But I have to remind myself that I'm going into the job for the position, not for the preferences of the interviewer. I will not be afraid anymore.
Wendy, thank you. We spend so much time on things that don't matter. "So what" helps us focus on what is important so we can live more meaningful lives. Wendy, your talk was amazing and it will help millions of people.
Recruitment "experts" are extremely narrow minded. People who can BS their way through interview usually get the job rather than someone who is really good at the job.
Exactly, how does a person with an HR degree become qualified to decide on economics, when they know nothing about economics. How do they say that they gave the job to a Phd, when they themselves dont have PhD's?
Fantastic talk Gail. Not only it is packed with useful content but it can really be helpful to remind yourself that just because you end up in a lot of NO piles, it does not necessarily mean you are a loser. Sometimes it is way easy to get beat down when you face rejection after rejection, for jobs you know for sure you would be very good at.
Glad you liked the talk. Feel free to share the message. yes, it brings an awareness to the candidate that they didn't have before. The candidate can use unconscious bias to their benefit. Since hiring manager/recruiters tend to gravitate towards candidate with similar interests, likes, background, etc., I tell candidates to do a social media investigation on the interview team and subtly work the "commonalities" into the interview.
@Gail Tolstoi-Miller I truly appreciate your theory and the simplistic solution of “So What?” Years ago, I became an advocate for diverse panel interviews when selecting for a supervisory/leadership positions. I saw diverse panels as a way to help reduce the impact of unconscious biases. From your talk, I realized I didn’t go far enough. In addition to the interview panels, I should have done candidate resume reviews the same way. For those that believe you can’t reveal your unconscious biases, spend some time in deep reflection or better yet, work with a coach that doesn’t offer answers but pulls them from within you! Guess what, you’ll discover many unconscious biases.
Thank you for your comments. Diverse panels is another great way to combat bias. There are many ways to combat at and when you combine methods, it helps a great deal. Also, when many people talk about diversity, they think it's about checking the boxes. It's way more than that. It's also diversity of thought. It's great that you have made a conscious decision to dive in self awareness. Kudos to you.
Great video Mrs. Miller! Every recruiter that I have met should watch it and more importantly, listen! Six(6) seconds to browse a resume and after that, they send an email or make a phone call to ask you for an information that is right in front of them in the resume. Astonishing, and depressing, to see the range of reasons as to why a resume is rejected. Your background and abilities have less weight than the way they have decided to perceive you. Apparently, and with no surprise, it is much easier to reject a candidate than to determine that he (or she) is (very) good at solving problems, doing a particular job.
Excellently stated, Gail. Keep it up. My personal favorite is when I kill it on the phone interview only to get to the in person interview, and then the 30 yr old interviewer gets a look at my middle aged face. Then, post-interview my resume goes on the NO pile.
thank you. Yes, there is a great deal of ageism. Ageism was in my original script but I decided to take it out because I wanted to point out little things like an email address or political tweet that can cost someone the job.
Oh dear... I have just come to the realisation that I have been discounting good applicants, without good reason, my entire career. Thank you very much for the video. It provided me with a consistent way to eliminate my unconscious bias using the "So What?" critique.
Satisfaction or self actualization is next to impossible working to enrich a large corporation. Cashing out your 401 K savings and rolling the dice on your dreams, you don't have any time for now because you're making someone else rich, is the riskiest and possibly most rewarding thing you could ever do.
I have learned that it's often not your fault you were fired or not hired, it's a conflict within the system, management or within herself/himself the hiring person has.
I dont think someone with a peanut allergy would even apply to a peanut factory, that makes no sense. Logic doesn't fit. Some reasons for not hiring a candidate are valid but the Tedx talk is to bring awareness to the reasons that are not valid.
Perhaps you see an unconscious bias results In hiring someone but in actuality it is completely conscious. I know I evaluate people much differently than others. E.g. some people care more about skills, others more about motivation and ability to learn, others potential to move up and lead. I think many things are important.
So you can be a brilliant candidate, but your taste of fashion or hair condition is not meeting the HR expectations... this is a real loss for many companies, who are actually looking for an effective employee and not a fashion model.
If you can say to yourself "so what", then its not unconscious bias. That's what makes unconscious bias so dangerous, you don't know you have it, so you can't recognize it and you can't ask yourself, "so what". It sounds nice to boil your fix down to 2 words, but the reality is, uncovering these biases takes an enormous amount of time and introspection. Taking implicit association tests for a wide variety of characteristics will help uncover these. My opinion, if you are already at the "so what" phase, you have already done 90% of the work by becoming conscious of your unconscious biases.
Gail Tolstoi-Miller I’m entering an advertising competition and this month we have to help people in the work force understand unconscious bias. Do you have any ideas/experiments to help people understand this? Awesome ted talk btw.
Exactly. That's not only stopped there, even if you managed to go through the round of interviews, they still might not hiring you. They can say whatever the reason they don't hire you and most of the time, they always said that it's confidential and can't say much to you as a feedback, which is weird. From my experiences, that "confidential" might have this kind of unconscious bias, whether you're not from a prestigious university or you're not the same "type" of people like the interviewer, but they will give the reason like the skill is not what we're expected. But if you're from a prestigious university, even though you performed the same, they might still hire you. Welcome to unfair world.
This can turn into some scary stuff down the road. Companies are trying to get into your heart and head and conclude what’s wrong with us. I don’t even know what makes me tick sometimes, you think I’m gonna hand that job over to a entity that sees me as a number? You crazy!
I experienced this now very very recently. I'd had my fair share of work and time as a trainee in a Non-gov organisation but still they didnt hire me. I heard that its because they find me too radical and they were threatened at my presence, clearly they "can't quite put their finger on me" I accepted it openly but felt really bad for the time and effort I gave them. It felt that they just use me as resources, but I'm so glad I got out before they can even corrupt me.
Thanks for the video. I have to admit, I struggle massively with the concept of Unconcious Bias, its use in the world and a lot of the content in this talk. Beyond my general reservations about the validity of the testing (as raised by those that developed it) and the outcomes of implementing UB training are underwhelming to say the least. I find it increasingly frustrating that people consider 'Not hiring someone because of the colour dress they were wearing' as a symptom of UB - thats just an example of dire recruitment skills and personal responsibility- if you know the reason, then its not unconcious. Also, there is no easy way to prove outcomes whether bias is positive or negative in the real world. For example - how many times has UB helped hire the best candidate? Despite my reservations, I will keep an eye on how the field of UB as it unfolds as it is an interesting notion.
When hiring/accepting people, unconscious biases can destroy their confidence, their motivation and self esteem. Talented individuals may hesitate to apply for positions they are qualified for, fearing rejection based on factors unrelated to their skills or qualifications. Even if they are hired, the lingering doubt stemming from perceived bias can hinder their performance and sense of belonging within the organization. Moreover, unconscious biases impede efforts to build diverse and inclusive teams. This may not only occur in workplaces but in teambuilding processes anywhere. People tend to judge others positively or negatively based on their own values or interests without even getting to know these people. I feel like the biggest challenge of avoiding unconscious biases is that even if we realize them, we may not want to change them as it may fulfill our values. If a person rejects someone with a tattoo then realizes that it was just an unconscious bias may not change their decision. A person may realize that this bias came from past experiences which they not want to undergo again. Overall, the speech shows that we have to be careful before making a decision about a person as our subconsciousness may make wrong shortcuts, leading us to wrong decisions.
The test you took (IAT) May not actually measure what you suggest it does. It could also be measuring novelty bias or similarity bias and those were not controlled for in those tests. The test does not have a good repeatability either. Generally speaking within that field the test should be closer to 1 where tests validity above a .8 are seen as necessary to consider it a good measure. That test on the high range only scores .5. In fact one of the original co-authors has recently co-authored another meta-analysis which suggests there is very little correlation between what is measured on that test and behavioral bias. Some studies have even suggested that training for unconscious bias actually has a negative effect. As the implications for unconscious bias are that you aren’t consciously responsible for a behavior that came from you unconscious mind. My question is whether these seminars and speeches are a waste of time, effort and resources. If you haven’t controlled for the easier to identify and control for things associated with explicit bias. Ie the name on the resumes should not be seen by the recruitment officer. Then why go chasing ghosts? This is an extremely controversial subject and the quickness to accept a controversial scientific idea and create whole new positions and training whose impact appears to be little to none actually give those with reason a moment to pause. This all appears to be HR departments jumping on the trendy list and finding bias because not enough explicit bias was present to justify their budgets. Of course there is unconscious bias to what extend that manifests in behaviors hasn’t been fully proven to justify the expenditures of resources. Jury is still out on this new field and yet it is being pushed beyond where the science appears to be at this time. Disappointing that goals they want to achieve and I agree with are being pushed back because people would rather focus on this stuff than how to make resumes and interviews as free from explicit bias as possible. Just a thought only time and more science will tell. It does appear this wave of training is not called for yet but it is a way to appear progressive and trendy and maybe that was the point for this all along. I hope not.
Absolutely!! Keep up the good work, the IAT does not have any validity, but is being used across countries in workplaces as a political tool to fit a post modernist ideology.
There is tons of unconscious and overt bias in the hiring practice. My speech did not allow to go into the nitty gritty of what we can do in the hiring process to help alleviate. I can tell you that people/companies do not hire or hire based on their own bias and there are many different types. It's impossible to eradicate it completely but companies can do way better. Training, self awareness, and process helps but not 💯
@@seanburton5700 iat should not be a starting point but it's not even close to being enough. It touches only the surface. I have been for a very long time and the reasons why companies don't hire people are sometimes unconscionable. Sometimes it's unconscious sometimes conscious. Corporate America has a very long way to go
She's right about everything, essentially. The fact that she has to make the speech at all - to an industry full of people whom you'd think wouldn't need to be told this, given how 'expert' they're supposed to be in the realm of interpersonal dynamics - is...appalling. It'd be analogous to having to tell a skydiver about this little-known physical force called 'gravity.' But someone's gotta make sure we remember our parachutes up there, I guess. Great presentation. Sincere and frankly, pretty brave to take on the flaws of her own peers with the aim of benefiting everyone involved. 👏
I have been rejected by the same company I worked for many years after I interviewed them again following a parenting gap. They think that I am lazy and outdated and won't be able to do the same work I have done for many years.
While I swing this watch in front of your eyes, relax, concentrate on my voice, and repeat after me: "I only THINK I know what I'm thinking. I only THINK I know what I think I'm thinking. I only THINK I know what I think I know I'm thinking ...". OK, now we're ready to talk about what you were REALLY thinking.
As an african-american male, I can tell you my mom used to tell me not to get dreads because I wouldn't get hired. Things have changed in that regard because of talks like these. Thanks!
The only way to eliminate unconscious bias in the field of recruitment and selection is through AI. Take away the human aspect and let strictly predefined measures decide based on pure merit...
If you want to hire robots, that might work, but you cannot eliminate completely the human element if you're trying to hire a fitting human... it also depends on the job requirements and relationships...
If I have "Unconscious Bias" that I can't control, I won't worry about it. Besides, it doesn't really matter what you're thinking. What matter most to other people is how you behave. Your actions matter. What you think privately in your mind doesn't matter.
Some of the stupidity in hiring practices is amazing. I'll never forget one instance when I applied to a job I found on Indeed. The employer had my resume showing 40 years of six figure sales experience. When the employer called the interviewers opening question to me was, "now what makes you think you would be successful in sales." I said have you read my resume and then hung up.
Perhaps you can elaborate more, but I'm under the impression that "unconscious" bias would be something that cannot be measured (it's not accessible to the conscious mind). So how do we measure the baseline "unconscious" bias, determine its impact (if at all) on the unconscious process and then furthermore determine the effectiveness of the training afterwards? I don't believe any empirical measurement systems are in place. What you are describing seems to be more along the lines of systemic bias: TRUE "unconscious" bias is, for example, sight. Light enters the cornea and the information is processed based upon your brains abilities to form an image, you have no say in the matter.
Thanks for your comments. There is no way to completely eradicate unconscious bias because of all the information we process and our judgements, etc. However, there are things you can do in the recruiting process that will help such as removing names, college etc from the resume when sent to hiring managers. That's just one thing. It's very difficult to break our prejudice and viewpoints but when you are more self aware and do ask your self how this matters such as the white pumps, it helps.
@@GailTolstoiMiller I think its good to be bias in the business world. If your giving someone a loan to buy a house for example. If they have a low credit score saying "so what if they have bad credit" and give them a loan anyways that could be big problems.
I was just denied for a position in which I gave a stellar interview for, citing that they chose candidates whose qualifications more closely matched the role. Come to find, that the selected candidate had none of the licensing their training program would be offering a prelicensing course for, meanwhile I had 2 of the 3 and direct domain expertise😕 I’m almost certain it’s because I didn’t match the desired ethnic background, even the role is not client facing
@@tylerkinnie7762 Hi Tyler, thanks so much. Glad you are sharing. My course will be released in the middle of July. I will keep you updated on this post once it goes live.
It's not unconscious bias, it's conscious bias. They know what they're doing.
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Bias is never unconscious......I face lot of rejection in technical interviews whenever I have "Indian" team, not to say which is everywhere. They are absolutely biased at different level which you can't imagine if you don't know Indian mindset. I have interviewed in companies which don't make product which I am expert at but they get it from us to integrate it further, yet in interview's they dominate the discourse and expect you to be nice listener. Unfortunate that such formation has started happening in America.
My gut feelings are important god damn it. Just because some people make bad choices based on gut feelings doesn't mean that all people make bad choices based on gut feelings. I am god damn sick of people telling me to stop listening to my gut and then try to talk me into nonsense. “In sum, do not insult me with the beheadings, finger choppings or the lung-deflations you plan for my works. I need my head to shake or nod, my hand to wave or make into a fist, my lungs to shout or whisper with. I will not go gently onto a shelf, degutted, to become a non-book. All you umpires, back to the bleachers. Referees hit the showers. It's my game. I pitch. I hit. I catch. I run the bases. At sunset I've won or lost. At sunrise, I'm out again, giving it the old try. And no one can help me. Not even you.” ― Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
Soooo... Basically it's a lottery. Change your name to John Smith if you're a guy and Jane Doe if you're a woman, make your resume as bland as possible, and offer the most labor for the least amount of money to increase your odds.
I think a great solution would be to have everybody wear bag plastic bags over their entire body and face while having a voice transcriber distorting their voice to make everyone sound the same. Great idea Gail!
The IAT does not meet commonly accepted standards of reliability and validity for a psychometric test. The creators know this, but apparently have no compunction to disclose it to the general public. It's become so commonly accepted that to question it now results in unfounded accusations of racism to shut people up. It's reprehensible.
If you are trying to rationalize NOT using your gut instinct in your decision making process, you’re not only going against human nature, you’re asking for trouble.
True that recognising bias feels exhausting and accepting our unconscious bias ismuseful. Safety before innovation or change creates stagnation and mistakes. So what? Avoids false assumptions.
This was good. I get hundreds of resumes and i am wondering what type of unconscious bias I have. I tell my resume readers to spend less than 30s. I also tell them if it is longer than 2 pages, it goes to No. I would prefer 1 page since to be honest nearly everyone I end up hiring has a very well written one page resume. Is this wrong? majority of resumes are longer than 3. I feel this is a bias since I feel they did not care enough to make it into 1 page to not waste my time. What about coming to the interview in gym clothes? Now with the pandemic, one candidate had a very messy room... We work in an office but we don't see clients, should people show professionalism during the interview? Selecting the right candidate is about making judgement call so i sometimes have trouble making the distinction between am i being bias or am i making the right judgement call. It is subtle but as a manager i dont want to take the risk on a person who i only met for 2h and who i will be working with for years to come. We all have biases.
What about judging a candidate on the basis of accent for a technical role? What if the candidate is smart but introvert and don't like interacting too much with other employees except for work?
@@rohans7194 having an accent should not be a criteria for hiring. I have hired people with accents, I myself have a heavy one. Recently hired someone with a speech impediment, during the interview he made sure I understood him. He is performing great. This is why you need to make sure your questions test for skills you need. On how well people fit in the team, I don't ask questions about their work friendships but I look for whether they value teamwork, I ask about conflicts, and on feedback they have received. My team has more introverts than extroverts. Because I look for teamwork, it creates an environment for the introverts to ask questions but I always need to encourage them to speak up.
Thanks for sharing. The amount of pages shouldnt matter. Can they do the job? Imagine putting someone in the no pile for a 3 page resume and they end up going to your competitor taking your clients away from you? Some of the best candidates that I hired did not have a great resume. I realize not everyone is good at writing one. Ironically, I have recruited recruiters and many cant write a resume well. It's great that you are using this talk to reflect. We all have biases and its impossible to eradicate it completely. Anyone tells you that you can is lying. But taking a pause and evaluating our own decisions helps us focus on what truly matters
@@mck5549 being concise and precise is important, I apply the KISS principle in many aspects of work (I hire for software development). You need to be able to sort the information, break down the problem in simpler pieces and present the right amount of information. So if you researched how to write a resume (all guides tells you to keep it at max 2 pages and target to the posting), and decided to ignore the guidelines, it tells me exactly that: you cannot read resume guides, did not targeted your resume, don't know what I am looking for (cannot sort the info in my posting). Resume is not the most important part, according to surveys, 80% people embellish their resume (even lie), interview is the most important part.
Watching this video at least taught me what a micro-aggression is: it's Gail Tolstoi-Miller constantly pushing the hair out of her eye five times a minute, every minute. For God's sake lady, use a paper clip, rubber band, clamp, barrette, glue, scissors, whatever; but stop fiddling with your hair. Good grief.
It was told me that I should be working while I was looking for a job lol, because otherwise I would have a problem finding a new job, but at least for me it doesn't make any sense, if I am jobless how could I be working at the same time?
Look into what jordan Peterson says about unconscious bias.. Then see if you think its a good idea to roll this out to all the work force. Force everyone to have physiological training, so they fully 100% agree with whatever the company does and all its views. And change what makes people who they are, their political opinions, their life experiences. You must conform. Pure Orwell right here.
Right now companies and corporate America is based on safety, conformity and consensus. That's why certain bad behavior is perpetuatued: only hiring ivy, age discrimination, political views, etc. That's why I am not a big proponent of companies going on social media to check out the candidate because so much bias kicks in, weight, looks, politics, religion, etc.
James, there are many different types of of unconscious bias but one of the most common one is hiring people like ourselves. That perpetuates an environment that lacks diversity in thought, etc. No one is saying an employee should change who they are but someone's politics, religion, gender, race, etc should have no influence in the hiring process
@@GailTolstoiMiller -I lost count of all the industrial sites i visited to apply for work where not only the workforce was completely non WASP, they were ALL from ONE foreign nation or foreign culture while not ONE of them were born here in Canada. funny how THEY don't get this "diversity" lecture.
Thanks for video. This is actual topic. I also have a problem with looking for the best candidates. I'm waste a loooong time. Colleagues, how you decide this problem? Which do you use a site or platforms? Tell me yours lifehack)
Most of the time there will be "gender bias" when the employer decides whether or not they should hire you. There is no such thing as equal opportunity employment. Sad.
I have has to graduate the best schools and made portfolios in order to overcome prejudices. Not for making them profitable. What a waste of time and efforts! It is why I trust in the GOd Jesus and not in the ways of men.
Over a million resumes.. let's consider she took atleast 2 minutes to scan the resumes and worked daily for 8 hours without break or leave .. it would've taken 11 years to finish just that one million.. we aside the "more over".. if she took less than 2 minutes to scan... Then she should listen to what she is saying herself... She may be a victim of unconscious bias... I also wonder if 2 minutes is sufficient enough to "properly review a resume"..
It's bad when the internet has to become church, I've been learning how to treat people without bias all my life ,,,, in church and in my own Bible study
There is ALWAYS a deciding factor. If two candidates have the same resume, the deciding factor may be the white pumps. If someone shares the same belief as you, that is the factor that gives them the advantage. We should stop trying disrupt human nature. Apparently there was another candidate just as qualified who didn’t wear white pumps after Labor Day. They got the job, what’s the problem?
White pumps should not be a factor in the hiring process. It's a big so what. The person they ended up hiring was not as strong. The best candidate doesnt always win due to our own biases.
@@GailTolstoiMiller all things being equal, it might just come down to “white pumps.” There is always something that decides and if everything else is equal you might decide off of someone who seems to share the same value system as you.
@@thenny10 that's affinity bias. To prevent groupthink and lack of diversity of thought sometimes it's good to hire someone that isn't the same as ourselves
It is if you are recruiter looking on social media and unconsciously not hire someone because they go against your political beliefs. Its in that context
Do you have any evidence of the unconscious bias in the workplace? Please cite studies or factual based information otherwise this is just another opinion.
This is perfect example of why so many bad managers and horrible corporate jobs are out there.
I agree
Asking yourself "So What" helps you return to the conscious and focus on what is important. We also need to understand individual differences and stop being biased especially while hiring. Thanks for this great advice.
Really insightful!
Love this. Needed to hear it. I feel less anxious about looking for a different job, without feeling unconsciously discriminated against. That's my biggest fear whenever I go to a job interview that I'll be judged for the complexion of my skin, and everything else the list goes on. But I have to remind myself that I'm going into the job for the position, not for the preferences of the interviewer. I will not be afraid anymore.
I've been using "so what" in all kinds of ways in my life since i had the privilege of watching you speak! Thank you Gail!
Wendy, thank you. We spend so much time on things that don't matter. "So what" helps us focus on what is important so we can live more meaningful lives. Wendy, your talk was amazing and it will help millions of people.
This is one of the comprehensive and great speech on unconscious bias . This is destroying the lives of millions of people everywhere and every day.
Thank you
No, people who do wrong create their biases. Biases are defenses from harm. Blame the creators and not others
Recruitment "experts" are extremely narrow minded. People who can BS their way through interview usually get the job rather than someone who is really good at the job.
thanks for your perspective
I think this is so true!
Yes just because you are quick on your feet doesnt mean your good for the job. The hiring process is badly broken.
Isn't that a reflection of inadequate interviewing too?
Exactly, how does a person with an HR degree become qualified to decide on economics, when they know nothing about economics. How do they say that they gave the job to a Phd, when they themselves dont have PhD's?
Fantastic talk Gail. Not only it is packed with useful content but it can really be helpful to remind yourself that just because you end up in a lot of NO piles, it does not necessarily mean you are a loser. Sometimes it is way easy to get beat down when you face rejection after rejection, for jobs you know for sure you would be very good at.
Glad you liked the talk. Feel free to share the message. yes, it brings an awareness to the candidate that they didn't have before. The candidate can use unconscious bias to their benefit. Since hiring manager/recruiters tend to gravitate towards candidate with similar interests, likes, background, etc., I tell candidates to do a social media investigation on the interview team and subtly work the "commonalities" into the interview.
@Gail Tolstoi-Miller I truly appreciate your theory and the simplistic solution of “So What?” Years ago, I became an advocate for diverse panel interviews when selecting for a supervisory/leadership positions. I saw diverse panels as a way to help reduce the impact of unconscious biases. From your talk, I realized I didn’t go far enough. In addition to the interview panels, I should have done candidate resume reviews the same way.
For those that believe you can’t reveal your unconscious biases, spend some time in deep reflection or better yet, work with a coach that doesn’t offer answers but pulls them from within you! Guess what, you’ll discover many unconscious biases.
Thank you for your comments. Diverse panels is another great way to combat bias. There are many ways to combat at and when you combine methods, it helps a great deal. Also, when many people talk about diversity, they think it's about checking the boxes. It's way more than that. It's also diversity of thought. It's great that you have made a conscious decision to dive in self awareness. Kudos to you.
Great video Mrs. Miller! Every recruiter that I have met should watch it and more importantly, listen! Six(6) seconds to browse a resume and after that, they send an email or make a phone call to ask you for an information that is right in front of them in the resume. Astonishing, and depressing, to see the range of reasons as to why a resume is rejected. Your background and abilities have less weight than the way they have decided to perceive you. Apparently, and with no surprise, it is much easier to reject a candidate than to determine that he (or she) is (very) good at solving problems, doing a particular job.
Thank you. Glad you liked it.
Apocalypse It’s ok to be White.
Excellently stated, Gail. Keep it up. My personal favorite is when I kill it on the phone interview only to get to the in person interview, and then the 30 yr old interviewer gets a look at my middle aged face. Then, post-interview my resume goes on the NO pile.
thank you. Yes, there is a great deal of ageism. Ageism was in my original script but I decided to take it out because I wanted to point out little things like an email address or political tweet that can cost someone the job.
'So.What'--exactly. Thanks for actionable advice to break down unconscious bias in hiring Gail
Thank you! Means a great deal coming from you, a fellow Unconscious Bias Tedx Speaker.
Oh dear... I have just come to the realisation that I have been discounting good applicants, without good reason, my entire career.
Thank you very much for the video. It provided me with a consistent way to eliminate my unconscious bias using the "So What?" critique.
As I continue to search for opportunities and continue to take a lot of "no's," it's comforting to know that it isn't necessarily me or my fault.
its not always what you think
Satisfaction or self actualization is next to impossible working to enrich a large corporation. Cashing out your 401 K savings and rolling the dice on your dreams, you don't have any time for now because you're making someone else rich, is the riskiest and possibly most rewarding thing you could ever do.
Any luck yet? Hopefully so. I'm living this now.
Yep, welcome to socialist mind set. No personal responsibility, it's always someone else's fault.
I have learned that it's often not your fault you were fired or not hired, it's a conflict within the system, management or within herself/himself the hiring person has.
I do have inconsious bias...and this help me to realize it. I will need to work on getting rid of this behaivor. SO WHAT???? great mantra!!!
- "I rejected an applicant because they have a peanut allergy."
- "So what?"
- "This is a peanut factory."
I dont think someone with a peanut allergy would even apply to a peanut factory, that makes no sense. Logic doesn't fit. Some reasons for not hiring a candidate are valid but the Tedx talk is to bring awareness to the reasons that are not valid.
Gail Tolstoi-Miller the person could have been allying to a part of the factory were peanuts were not close in proximity such as IT.
Jesus, I almost choked. :')
😂
that's an exception
Perhaps you see an unconscious bias results In hiring someone but in actuality it is completely conscious.
I know I evaluate people much differently than others. E.g. some people care more about skills, others more about motivation and ability to learn, others potential to move up and lead. I think many things are important.
I agree. We must focus on what is important in hiring. But also be careful with biases that can creep into hiring decisions
So you can be a brilliant candidate, but your taste of fashion or hair condition is not meeting the HR expectations... this is a real loss for many companies, who are actually looking for an effective employee and not a fashion model.
Happens all the time especially in certain industries such as cosmetic pharma sales reps.
I love the "so what"! Does the reason for putting the candidate aside really matter? Makes you think twice. - Thank you for this post.
Glad you enjoyed it
If you can say to yourself "so what", then its not unconscious bias. That's what makes unconscious bias so dangerous, you don't know you have it, so you can't recognize it and you can't ask yourself, "so what". It sounds nice to boil your fix down to 2 words, but the reality is, uncovering these biases takes an enormous amount of time and introspection. Taking implicit association tests for a wide variety of characteristics will help uncover these. My opinion, if you are already at the "so what" phase, you have already done 90% of the work by becoming conscious of your unconscious biases.
wow its my one year anniversary since this has been posted. I am so glad more companies are doing unconscious bias training.
Gail Tolstoi-Miller I’m entering an advertising competition and this month we have to help people in the work force understand unconscious bias. Do you have any ideas/experiments to help people understand this? Awesome ted talk btw.
I'm sorry, but you're a delusional woman. There's no such thing as "unconscious bias." Absolutely ridiculous.
@@DrMelvin69 thank you
@@oldsoulbiz3526 right to your own opinion. Then focus on conscious bias if you think unconscious bias doesn't exist
Unconscious bias is a hypothetical idea. There is no scientific evidence of unconscious bias.
It's been my experience, that any company that disqualifies you for petty reasons is a company you don't want to be apart of.
Exactly. That's not only stopped there, even if you managed to go through the round of interviews, they still might not hiring you. They can say whatever the reason they don't hire you and most of the time, they always said that it's confidential and can't say much to you as a feedback, which is weird. From my experiences, that "confidential" might have this kind of unconscious bias, whether you're not from a prestigious university or you're not the same "type" of people like the interviewer, but they will give the reason like the skill is not what we're expected. But if you're from a prestigious university, even though you performed the same, they might still hire you. Welcome to unfair world.
This can turn into some scary stuff down the road. Companies are trying to get into your heart and head and conclude what’s wrong with us. I don’t even know what makes me tick sometimes, you think I’m gonna hand that job over to a entity that sees me as a number? You crazy!
I experienced this now very very recently. I'd had my fair share of work and time as a trainee in a Non-gov organisation but still they didnt hire me. I heard that its because they find me too radical and they were threatened at my presence, clearly they "can't quite put their finger on me" I accepted it openly but felt really bad for the time and effort I gave them. It felt that they just use me as resources, but I'm so glad I got out before they can even corrupt me.
You can comment anything here.. But unless we hear their side of story, we can't say you are right..
Have you considered what they said?
Thanks for the video. I have to admit, I struggle massively with the concept of Unconcious Bias, its use in the world and a lot of the content in this talk. Beyond my general reservations about the validity of the testing (as raised by those that developed it) and the outcomes of implementing UB training are underwhelming to say the least. I find it increasingly frustrating that people consider 'Not hiring someone because of the colour dress they were wearing' as a symptom of UB - thats just an example of dire recruitment skills and personal responsibility- if you know the reason, then its not unconcious. Also, there is no easy way to prove outcomes whether bias is positive or negative in the real world. For example - how many times has UB helped hire the best candidate?
Despite my reservations, I will keep an eye on how the field of UB as it unfolds as it is an interesting notion.
Thanks for sharing.
Well done Gail. Keep up the good work!
Thank you. I appreciate it.
When hiring/accepting people, unconscious biases can destroy their confidence, their motivation and self esteem. Talented individuals may hesitate to apply for positions they are qualified for, fearing rejection based on factors unrelated to their skills or qualifications. Even if they are hired, the lingering doubt stemming from perceived bias can hinder their performance and sense of belonging within the organization. Moreover, unconscious biases impede efforts to build diverse and inclusive teams. This may not only occur in workplaces but in teambuilding processes anywhere. People tend to judge others positively or negatively based on their own values or interests without even getting to know these people. I feel like the biggest challenge of avoiding unconscious biases is that even if we realize them, we may not want to change them as it may fulfill our values. If a person rejects someone with a tattoo then realizes that it was just an unconscious bias may not change their decision. A person may realize that this bias came from past experiences which they not want to undergo again. Overall, the speech shows that we have to be careful before making a decision about a person as our subconsciousness may make wrong shortcuts, leading us to wrong decisions.
The test you took (IAT) May not actually measure what you suggest it does. It could also be measuring novelty bias or similarity bias and those were not controlled for in those tests. The test does not have a good repeatability either. Generally speaking within that field the test should be closer to 1 where tests validity above a .8 are seen as necessary to consider it a good measure. That test on the high range only scores .5. In fact one of the original co-authors has recently co-authored another meta-analysis which suggests there is very little correlation between what is measured on that test and behavioral bias. Some studies have even suggested that training for unconscious bias actually has a negative effect. As the implications for unconscious bias are that you aren’t consciously responsible for a behavior that came from you unconscious mind.
My question is whether these seminars and speeches are a waste of time, effort and resources. If you haven’t controlled for the easier to identify and control for things associated with explicit bias. Ie the name on the resumes should not be seen by the recruitment officer. Then why go chasing ghosts?
This is an extremely controversial subject and the quickness to accept a controversial scientific idea and create whole new positions and training whose impact appears to be little to none actually give those with reason a moment to pause. This all appears to be HR departments jumping on the trendy list and finding bias because not enough explicit bias was present to justify their budgets.
Of course there is unconscious bias to what extend that manifests in behaviors hasn’t been fully proven to justify the expenditures of resources.
Jury is still out on this new field and yet it is being pushed beyond where the science appears to be at this time. Disappointing that goals they want to achieve and I agree with are being pushed back because people would rather focus on this stuff than how to make resumes and interviews as free from explicit bias as possible.
Just a thought only time and more science will tell. It does appear this wave of training is not called for yet but it is a way to appear progressive and trendy and maybe that was the point for this all along. I hope not.
Absolutely!! Keep up the good work, the IAT does not have any validity, but is being used across countries in workplaces as a political tool to fit a post modernist ideology.
There is tons of unconscious and overt bias in the hiring practice. My speech did not allow to go into the nitty gritty of what we can do in the hiring process to help alleviate. I can tell you that people/companies do not hire or hire based on their own bias and there are many different types. It's impossible to eradicate it completely but companies can do way better. Training, self awareness, and process helps but not 💯
@@seanburton5700 iat should not be a starting point but it's not even close to being enough. It touches only the surface. I have been for a very long time and the reasons why companies don't hire people are sometimes unconscionable. Sometimes it's unconscious sometimes conscious. Corporate America has a very long way to go
She's right about everything, essentially. The fact that she has to make the speech at all - to an industry full of people whom you'd think wouldn't need to be told this, given how 'expert' they're supposed to be in the realm of interpersonal dynamics - is...appalling. It'd be analogous to having to tell a skydiver about this little-known physical force called 'gravity.' But someone's gotta make sure we remember our parachutes up there, I guess. Great presentation. Sincere and frankly, pretty brave to take on the flaws of her own peers with the aim of benefiting everyone involved. 👏
Gail presents a good idea really, REALLY well.
thank you so much. I appreciate your feedback
I have been rejected by the same company I worked for many years after I interviewed them again following a parenting gap. They think that I am lazy and outdated and won't be able to do the same work I have done for many years.
Did they actually tell you this?
While I swing this watch in front of your eyes, relax, concentrate on my voice, and repeat after me: "I only THINK I know what I'm thinking. I only THINK I know what I think I'm thinking. I only THINK I know what I think I know I'm thinking ...". OK, now we're ready to talk about what you were REALLY thinking.
Companies need to take more time to review applicants and ensure they are hiring for the right reasons. This TED talk really dives into that!
I agree. Thanks for sharing
As an african-american male, I can tell you my mom used to tell me not to get dreads because I wouldn't get hired. Things have changed in that regard because of talks like these. Thanks!
The only way to eliminate unconscious bias in the field of recruitment and selection is through AI. Take away the human aspect and let strictly predefined measures decide based on pure merit...
If you want to hire robots, that might work, but you cannot eliminate completely the human element if you're trying to hire a fitting human... it also depends on the job requirements and relationships...
Brilliant .... "So... What" what a step way and way to think .. Awesome thinking,....
If I have "Unconscious Bias" that I can't control, I won't worry about it.
Besides, it doesn't really matter what you're thinking. What matter most to other people is how you behave.
Your actions matter. What you think privately in your mind doesn't matter.
I wish she had mentioned the unconscious bias as it relates to age. Or maybe it more conscious bias!
It can be both. Based on my own recruiting experience, I feel age discrimination is one of the most accepted type of bias. Somehow its justified.
Some of the stupidity in hiring practices is amazing. I'll never forget one instance when I applied to a job I found on Indeed. The employer had my resume showing 40 years of six figure sales experience. When the employer called the interviewers opening question to me was, "now what makes you think you would be successful in sales." I said have you read my resume and then hung up.
thanks for sharing. Not all recruiters now how to recruit unfortantely.
goes completely against the meritocracy makes me to research this after i become a psychologist.
She is such a great speaker,
Thank you. I was so nervous doing it but I said "so what" to my fear and pushed through.
Perhaps you can elaborate more, but I'm under the impression that "unconscious" bias would be something that cannot be measured (it's not accessible to the conscious mind). So how do we measure the baseline "unconscious" bias, determine its impact (if at all) on the unconscious process and then furthermore determine the effectiveness of the training afterwards? I don't believe any empirical measurement systems are in place. What you are describing seems to be more along the lines of systemic bias: TRUE "unconscious" bias is, for example, sight. Light enters the cornea and the information is processed based upon your brains abilities to form an image, you have no say in the matter.
Adam Larnach exactly lol...I was gonna say the same thing.
Thanks for your comments. There is no way to completely eradicate unconscious bias because of all the information we process and our judgements, etc. However, there are things you can do in the recruiting process that will help such as removing names, college etc from the resume when sent to hiring managers. That's just one thing. It's very difficult to break our prejudice and viewpoints but when you are more self aware and do ask your self how this matters such as the white pumps, it helps.
Also, once the hiring process is changed and improved, you can look at your hiring data to see the changes
@@GailTolstoiMiller I think its good to be bias in the business world. If your giving someone a loan to buy a house for example. If they have a low credit score saying "so what if they have bad credit" and give them a loan anyways that could be big problems.
but I think your just saying in general to ask the question "so what" correct ?
I was just denied for a position in which I gave a stellar interview for, citing that they chose candidates whose qualifications more closely matched the role. Come to find, that the selected candidate had none of the licensing their training program would be offering a prelicensing course for, meanwhile I had 2 of the 3 and direct domain expertise😕 I’m almost certain it’s because I didn’t match the desired ethnic background, even the role is not client facing
So excited. I just created an online unconscious bias course which is going live in about 5 weeks. Keep you updated.
@@tylerkinnie7762 Hi Tyler, thanks so much. Glad you are sharing. My course will be released in the middle of July. I will keep you updated on this post once it goes live.
how do i find out more about the course? thanks
It's not unconscious bias, it's conscious bias. They know what they're doing.
Bias is never unconscious......I face lot of rejection in technical interviews whenever I have "Indian" team, not to say which is everywhere. They are absolutely biased at different level which you can't imagine if you don't know Indian mindset.
I have interviewed in companies which don't make product which I am expert at but they get it from us to integrate it further, yet in interview's they dominate the discourse and expect you to be nice listener. Unfortunate that such formation has started happening in America.
I am sorry you are experiencing bias. There is bias that is not unconscious bias but conscious. However, unconscious bias does exist. There is both.
Truly, there is unconscious bias
My gut feelings are important god damn it. Just because some people make bad choices based on gut feelings doesn't mean that all people make bad choices based on gut feelings. I am god damn sick of people telling me to stop listening to my gut and then try to talk me into nonsense.
“In sum, do not insult me with the beheadings, finger choppings or the lung-deflations you plan for my works. I need my head to shake or nod, my hand to wave or make into a fist, my lungs to shout or whisper with. I will not go gently onto a shelf, degutted, to become a non-book. All you umpires, back to the bleachers. Referees hit the showers. It's my game. I pitch. I hit. I catch. I run the bases. At sunset I've won or lost. At sunrise, I'm out again, giving it the old try. And no one can help me. Not even you.”
― Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
Love this. Thank you for sharing!
Soooo... Basically it's a lottery. Change your name to John Smith if you're a guy and Jane Doe if you're a woman, make your resume as bland as possible, and offer the most labor for the least amount of money to increase your odds.
No. I don't suggest that at all
I think a great solution would be to have everybody wear bag plastic bags over their entire body and face while having a voice transcriber distorting their voice to make everyone sound the same. Great idea Gail!
Max, don't think I haven't thought about that. Great minds think alike.
Awesome speech.
thank you
I have an interview for Capriotti's on Saturday. Have any tips? I'm almost 18 and need to save up money for college.
Great talk. Funny they are only spending 6 seconds on a resume but countless amount of time and though on nonsense like white shoes, accent, etc.
Yep. Disheartening. Not focusing non what happens
You left out gender and race. When it comes to hiring practices there apparently is no such thing as equal opportunity employment. Sad.
This is brilliant.
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Age, race, or gender have never been factors in hiring at our company.
Attitude, proven work ethic, goals and fit are the only things that matter.
Great presentation, Gail. Huge congratulations on this TEDx. I'm thrilled for you. Adèle xx
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
This was a most informative and home-hitting video.
All managers must pass a psychological test before they start their jobs.
There are plenty of tests on the market that companies can utilize
...and who gets to write the test and how do you know it wont be biased
unconscionable !!!!
Great commentary on bias. Thanks for the input. Signed, recently retired (not)!
Thank you.
The IAT does not meet commonly accepted standards of reliability and validity for a psychometric test. The creators know this, but apparently have no compunction to disclose it to the general public. It's become so commonly accepted that to question it now results in unfounded accusations of racism to shut people up. It's reprehensible.
This is really great!
If you are trying to rationalize NOT using your gut instinct in your decision making process, you’re not only going against human nature, you’re asking for trouble.
Truth. The human element needs to be removed from the hiring process.
True that recognising bias feels exhausting and accepting our unconscious bias ismuseful. Safety before innovation or change creates stagnation and mistakes. So what? Avoids false assumptions.
This was good. I get hundreds of resumes and i am wondering what type of unconscious bias I have. I tell my resume readers to spend less than 30s. I also tell them if it is longer than 2 pages, it goes to No. I would prefer 1 page since to be honest nearly everyone I end up hiring has a very well written one page resume. Is this wrong? majority of resumes are longer than 3. I feel this is a bias since I feel they did not care enough to make it into 1 page to not waste my time. What about coming to the interview in gym clothes? Now with the pandemic, one candidate had a very messy room... We work in an office but we don't see clients, should people show professionalism during the interview? Selecting the right candidate is about making judgement call so i sometimes have trouble making the distinction between am i being bias or am i making the right judgement call. It is subtle but as a manager i dont want to take the risk on a person who i only met for 2h and who i will be working with for years to come. We all have biases.
What about judging a candidate on the basis of accent for a technical role? What if the candidate is smart but introvert and don't like interacting too much with other employees except for work?
@@rohans7194 having an accent should not be a criteria for hiring. I have hired people with accents, I myself have a heavy one. Recently hired someone with a speech impediment, during the interview he made sure I understood him. He is performing great. This is why you need to make sure your questions test for skills you need. On how well people fit in the team, I don't ask questions about their work friendships but I look for whether they value teamwork, I ask about conflicts, and on feedback they have received. My team has more introverts than extroverts. Because I look for teamwork, it creates an environment for the introverts to ask questions but I always need to encourage them to speak up.
Thanks for sharing. The amount of pages shouldnt matter. Can they do the job? Imagine putting someone in the no pile for a 3 page resume and they end up going to your competitor taking your clients away from you? Some of the best candidates that I hired did not have a great resume. I realize not everyone is good at writing one. Ironically, I have recruited recruiters and many cant write a resume well. It's great that you are using this talk to reflect. We all have biases and its impossible to eradicate it completely. Anyone tells you that you can is lying. But taking a pause and evaluating our own decisions helps us focus on what truly matters
So which scientific framework did you use that guided you that anything longer than 2 pages is a no? And the 30s as well?
@@mck5549 being concise and precise is important, I apply the KISS principle in many aspects of work (I hire for software development). You need to be able to sort the information, break down the problem in simpler pieces and present the right amount of information. So if you researched how to write a resume (all guides tells you to keep it at max 2 pages and target to the posting), and decided to ignore the guidelines, it tells me exactly that: you cannot read resume guides, did not targeted your resume, don't know what I am looking for (cannot sort the info in my posting). Resume is not the most important part, according to surveys, 80% people embellish their resume (even lie), interview is the most important part.
Do you mind if I use this in my training presentation?
Sure
“This wasn’t a conscious decision but a conscious one” what?
Second part I stated unconscious but I agree it should have been clearer. It was a tongue twister. Thanks for watching
Amazing!!!
Very informative video luv it
This is BS hiring has more to do with social connections and commincation skills.
2:34
I think she's unconsciously, conscious.
Watching this video at least taught me what a micro-aggression is: it's Gail Tolstoi-Miller constantly pushing the hair out of her eye five times a minute, every minute. For God's sake lady, use a paper clip, rubber band, clamp, barrette, glue, scissors, whatever; but stop fiddling with your hair. Good grief.
Unconscious bias is natural, unavoidable and ultimately irrelevant
thanks for sharing your perspective
It was told me that I should be working while I was looking for a job lol, because otherwise I would have a problem finding a new job, but at least for me it doesn't make any sense, if I am jobless how could I be working at the same time?
Wow...
So lets have automated robots do all the hiring. Seems like that's the best solution.
Have a look into how Amazon’s recruiting through machine learning went in 2018, huge fail! Machine learning will replicate unconscious bias
@@emalouc were the machines given info on the applicants’ race/gender/etc in those studies?
The did this. The system was only fed the candidate’s essentials like education and work experience. The algorithm heavily favored men
Look into what jordan Peterson says about unconscious bias.. Then see if you think its a good idea to roll this out to all the work force. Force everyone to have physiological training, so they fully 100% agree with whatever the company does and all its views. And change what makes people who they are, their political opinions, their life experiences. You must conform. Pure Orwell right here.
Right now companies and corporate America is based on safety, conformity and consensus. That's why certain bad behavior is perpetuatued: only hiring ivy, age discrimination, political views, etc. That's why I am not a big proponent of companies going on social media to check out the candidate because so much bias kicks in, weight, looks, politics, religion, etc.
James, there are many different types of of unconscious bias but one of the most common one is hiring people like ourselves. That perpetuates an environment that lacks diversity in thought, etc. No one is saying an employee should change who they are but someone's politics, religion, gender, race, etc should have no influence in the hiring process
@@GailTolstoiMiller -I lost count of all the industrial sites i visited to apply for work where not only the workforce was completely non WASP, they were ALL from ONE foreign nation or foreign culture while not ONE of them were born here in Canada.
funny how THEY don't get this "diversity" lecture.
Thanks for video. This is actual topic. I also have a problem with looking for the best candidates. I'm waste a loooong time. Colleagues, how you decide this problem? Which do you use a site or platforms?
Tell me yours lifehack)
Most of the time there will be "gender bias" when the employer decides whether or not they should hire you. There is no such thing as equal opportunity employment. Sad.
Alot of recruiters are lazy af to do any type of investigation.
I Knew a Girl Who Got a Job Offer No Resume and No Interview Literally only in 2 Days wtf
So prejudice?
Yes
I have has to graduate the best schools and made portfolios in order to overcome prejudices. Not for making them profitable. What a waste of time and efforts! It is why I trust in the GOd Jesus and not in the ways of men.
Chang is Costa Rican, btw.
Over a million resumes.. let's consider she took atleast 2 minutes to scan the resumes and worked daily for 8 hours without break or leave .. it would've taken 11 years to finish just that one million.. we aside the "more over".. if she took less than 2 minutes to scan... Then she should listen to what she is saying herself... She may be a victim of unconscious bias... I also wonder if 2 minutes is sufficient enough to "properly review a resume"..
She said at the start they take on average 6 seconds for each resume
and then they say we do not discriminate based on you background
So says the speaker.
She burns her popcorn
lol
I am the top dog.
Not one piece of evidence given in this talk. Quote reputable studies before saying unconscious bias is in schools, judiciary etc.
There are many studies. Google it.
It's bad when the internet has to become church, I've been learning how to treat people without bias all my life ,,,, in church and in my own Bible study
There is ALWAYS a deciding factor. If two candidates have the same resume, the deciding factor may be the white pumps. If someone shares the same belief as you, that is the factor that gives them the advantage. We should stop trying disrupt human nature. Apparently there was another candidate just as qualified who didn’t wear white pumps after Labor Day. They got the job, what’s the problem?
White pumps should not be a factor in the hiring process. It's a big so what. The person they ended up hiring was not as strong. The best candidate doesnt always win due to our own biases.
@@GailTolstoiMiller all things being equal, it might just come down to “white pumps.” There is always something that decides and if everything else is equal you might decide off of someone who seems to share the same value system as you.
@@thenny10 that's affinity bias. To prevent groupthink and lack of diversity of thought sometimes it's good to hire someone that isn't the same as ourselves
are we sure these are stereotypes?
I don’t agree with your political beliefs isn’t unconscious yikes this is painful
It is if you are recruiter looking on social media and unconsciously not hire someone because they go against your political beliefs. Its in that context
Don’t care I have my own company and god..
Do you have any evidence of the unconscious bias in the workplace? Please cite studies or factual based information otherwise this is just another opinion.
Do you have any evidence against it? If so, please share studies thanks.
White Pumps! Many times the interviewee is too good for the interviewer. People don't allow strangers to measure your value.
With all my political, religious and racial justice posts I had written; my career is way gone.
I am not surprised.
so recruiters are unprofessional and incompetent, got it.