I'm glad to hear someone else mention the whole "no prices on magic items" thing. Years ago, when I switched from Pathfinder 1e to the 5e books, that was the one thing that stuck out to me like a sore thumb. I also think that the "price ranges" that they suggest for magic item rarity is pretty ridiculous 🙄
@@misfitadventurers This is due to the 3.5 after-effects of wealth by level. During 5e creation, it was an after thought, and you can easily see the results of it being such….
I liked the DMG and DMG2 for 4th edition. The DMG for 5e feels indeed lacking in many things, but especially encounter design was lacking compared to 4e. I guess that is the main reason why I simply stopped running D&D.
So interesting to see a criticism of the 5E DMG from your perspective. Thank you. Personally I came from a much older generation of gamers, and my criticisms of the 5E books have a lot more to do with game and rules quality than the pragmatic and playability issues that have ALWAYS plagued DMGs. With the capabilities of modern publishing software, there is simply no excuse for many of the referencing issues you brought up. Subbed. Curious to see your take on other aspects of DMing, D&D and other games.
I agree with you about the page numbers!!!! Also, the PH and DMG indexes are lacking (you can find a good PH index online; don’t have the link). But the worse thing is that the 5E page numbers are tiny and faint. Makes it hard for older players to flip to the desired page.
Great video. The session 0 point is right on, but there's so much more wrong with the DMG. The "how to run a game" section is minimal and it should be the majority of the book. World building is nice, but a ton of DMs use pre-written adventures and don't need that. They need how to manage a game, how to prep encounters, how to run npcs, etc. I'd recommend Sly Flourish's "The Lazy DM". It's a great resource for DM's and a lot of what the DMG should be!
I think that a DM spends most of their time designing encounters; there are only 7 pages dealing with designing encounters, and there are 95 pages of treasure tables and magic items. Also, there are only 5 pages on traps, which I think could be really interesting. When they discuss the Planes & the world there's very little about how the creatures in that world relate to one another; you just get a small list of inhabitants and some mechanical effects of the area. And I agree that 'monsters by area' and 'monsters by CR' should be tables in the MM, if not its main organizing structure. To me it feels like the DMG was written without any inspiration or excitement about playing, and when I read the 4e DMG I think, "this is a better book!"
Alright, so I have actually read through all of the D&D books I own, some multiple times, either the sad exception of the DMG. I've only read about half of it. I definitely agree that magic items should have a suggested value, as I would totally have a magic item shop in a large city if I were DMing a campaign, and while I know a +3 Longsword is probably a lot more valuable than a standard Longsword, I have no idea by how much. Glad you're feeling better!💛
Who needs page numbers? The DMG is likely to get referenced mid game when a DM is trying to pretend we know what we're talking about... nothing better than furiously flicking though pages trying to find a vague chapter reference to make you seem like you know what you're doing! P.s. looking forward to hearing more about the pirate beach trip.
The mention of trying to frantically look through a book mid session gives me serious ptsd 😂 These days I just google it. It saves time and my games are all at my computer anyway
I feel the 5e DMG is not aimed at novices at all. It starts with creating your own world! Sure, that could be a fun thing to do, but that's probably not the first thing you would do.
All valid reasons, especially the reference page numbers. As for Pathfinder, I have now played four Pathfinder sessions, and I am really enjoying it. I also like playing within the Pathfinder Society.
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave 😂 But seriously, I have used the DMG as a bit of a jumping off point but ultimately either came up with my own methods for certain things (usually worldbuilding or NPC creation) or learned from other sources such as this channel, Ginny Di, and Seth Skorkowsky.
Be careful what you wish for. Every other edition (D&D2E and 4E) has DMGs like you suggest. And I expect the OneD&D (AKA 6E) will have the kind of changes you want too. The problem with these editions of the DMG is that they are only used once and then just sit in your self. While the 1E, 3/3.5E, and 5E DMGs are reference books that you will continue to return to. BTW, I would love to hear a review from you on the PF 1E and 2E GMGs.
I believe a lot of it comes down to penny pinching. So many companies save money by cutting back on the important things, then blow it all on nonsense.
I don’t think it COMPLETELY sucks, just mostly 😊 I’ve used it for some optional rules, magic items, and the adventure design tables (though at this point I use Tome of Adventure Design and Worlds Without Number for that) The lack of cross-references was so rough as I was starting. Particularly when they referenced the PHB… Session 0’s were not a categorized thing at the time of publishing. At all. This was 9years ago at this point. They added it to…Tasha’s cauldron of everything? I think? Magic items were explicitly called out as not generally available for sale in the DMG. The assumption at time of publishing was that they would be very rare, so they give some guidelines, but it explicitly says they aren’t likely to be able to buy and sell them. This turned out later to not be how most people played their games.
I probably don't give the 5e DMG enough respect. It's clearly written for first-time DMs, which is probably a good thing. It does have some nice random tables in it. The maps in the back are really good. I just find myself reaching for the 1e DMG a lot more. Why, because the 1e DMG has things like: mythic associations with gemstones (and, dammit, every DMG should have illustrations or pictures of the gemstones!), healing herbs, non-European noble titles (though the 1e Pathfinder DMG was much better for this), random demon-creation tables, and stuff like that. (Big caveat on my praise of the 1e DMG: the organization is craptacular.)
My son wanted to play DnD, so we came at it cold having just discovered RPGs, and I have to say I found not just the DM Guide but all the DnD materials were unbelievably disorganized, bloated with needless micromanagement rules, and weirdly "in the weeds" with a lot of things I cant see why DMs and players couldnt just make up for themselves unless they are devoid of imagination. I also really didn't like the way the Monster Manual cherry picked the names of creatures from myth and folklore but then the creature described is wildly disconnected from its folkloric roots. Why not just make up new names if you're making up the creature anyway? And the character sheet - why do we need 50 skill or talents listed with bonuses? Its a game, not a reality model simulation that needs to be subtle. I dont see why there need to be more than 3 stats or modifiers at all. Anyway I could go on a lot - DnD is a bloated mess was my impression.
I'm glad to hear someone else mention the whole "no prices on magic items" thing. Years ago, when I switched from Pathfinder 1e to the 5e books, that was the one thing that stuck out to me like a sore thumb.
I also think that the "price ranges" that they suggest for magic item rarity is pretty ridiculous 🙄
It's a pretty wide range. When I first started DMing I took one look at that and immediately got so confused
@@misfitadventurers
This is due to the 3.5 after-effects of wealth by level. During 5e creation, it was an after thought, and you can easily see the results of it being such….
I saw the video thumbnail, so I kind of expected it, but when you just flat out said the DMG sucks in such a matter-of-fact tone it made me chuckle.
Happy to entertain 😂
I liked the DMG and DMG2 for 4th edition. The DMG for 5e feels indeed lacking in many things, but especially encounter design was lacking compared to 4e. I guess that is the main reason why I simply stopped running D&D.
I don't blame you. Out of the 5e dungeon master's holy trinity of books, the DMG is probably the one I look at the least
So interesting to see a criticism of the 5E DMG from your perspective. Thank you. Personally I came from a much older generation of gamers, and my criticisms of the 5E books have a lot more to do with game and rules quality than the pragmatic and playability issues that have ALWAYS plagued DMGs. With the capabilities of modern publishing software, there is simply no excuse for many of the referencing issues you brought up.
Subbed. Curious to see your take on other aspects of DMing, D&D and other games.
Basic Fantasy RPG…everything in one book, sold at cost.
I agree with you about the page numbers!!!! Also, the PH and DMG indexes are lacking (you can find a good PH index online; don’t have the link). But the worse thing is that the 5E page numbers are tiny and faint. Makes it hard for older players to flip to the desired page.
Older players or just any players with bad eyesight 😂
I've only opened my DMG like maybe 10 times since I've had it since 2019. I've learned to be a DM through Google, TH-cam, etc.
Great video. The session 0 point is right on, but there's so much more wrong with the DMG. The "how to run a game" section is minimal and it should be the majority of the book. World building is nice, but a ton of DMs use pre-written adventures and don't need that. They need how to manage a game, how to prep encounters, how to run npcs, etc. I'd recommend Sly Flourish's "The Lazy DM". It's a great resource for DM's and a lot of what the DMG should be!
Totally agree with the page numbers, all of the Onyx path Trinity books do that - sometimes even listing other books AND page number. It's so useful!
I think that a DM spends most of their time designing encounters; there are only 7 pages dealing with designing encounters, and there are 95 pages of treasure tables and magic items. Also, there are only 5 pages on traps, which I think could be really interesting. When they discuss the Planes & the world there's very little about how the creatures in that world relate to one another; you just get a small list of inhabitants and some mechanical effects of the area. And I agree that 'monsters by area' and 'monsters by CR' should be tables in the MM, if not its main organizing structure. To me it feels like the DMG was written without any inspiration or excitement about playing, and when I read the 4e DMG I think, "this is a better book!"
I'm not even 26 seconds in, and I already agree... going to keep watching to see if I agree for the same reasons
Alright, so I have actually read through all of the D&D books I own, some multiple times, either the sad exception of the DMG. I've only read about half of it. I definitely agree that magic items should have a suggested value, as I would totally have a magic item shop in a large city if I were DMing a campaign, and while I know a +3 Longsword is probably a lot more valuable than a standard Longsword, I have no idea by how much. Glad you're feeling better!💛
It's definitely not an easy book to read. I know that there are more than a few sections that I haven't felt the need to look at 😅
The Cypher System core rulebook has margin notes for links and comments. I just finished it, and that is now my gold standard for referencing.
I've been meaning to get a copy of the Cypher System rulebook. It's definitely been on my radar for a while
@@misfitadventurers it’s an interesting system. All the crunch is done pre-roll.
Accurate and to the point, as always. Keep up the good work. 👌
Appreciate it!
Who needs page numbers? The DMG is likely to get referenced mid game when a DM is trying to pretend we know what we're talking about... nothing better than furiously flicking though pages trying to find a vague chapter reference to make you seem like you know what you're doing!
P.s. looking forward to hearing more about the pirate beach trip.
The mention of trying to frantically look through a book mid session gives me serious ptsd 😂 These days I just google it. It saves time and my games are all at my computer anyway
I feel the 5e DMG is not aimed at novices at all. It starts with creating your own world! Sure, that could be a fun thing to do, but that's probably not the first thing you would do.
I completely agree. The DMG almost seems like it's designed to scare away new people
All valid reasons, especially the reference page numbers. As for Pathfinder, I have now played four Pathfinder sessions, and I am really enjoying it. I also like playing within the Pathfinder Society.
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave 😂
But seriously, I have used the DMG as a bit of a jumping off point but ultimately either came up with my own methods for certain things (usually worldbuilding or NPC creation) or learned from other sources such as this channel, Ginny Di, and Seth Skorkowsky.
I see a piano in the background so I must ask, what do you typically play on it? Can we get a video of that? Love your videos
I'm definitely more of a singer than a pianist, but I promise that some musical projects are in the works!
Be careful what you wish for. Every other edition (D&D2E and 4E) has DMGs like you suggest. And I expect the OneD&D (AKA 6E) will have the kind of changes you want too.
The problem with these editions of the DMG is that they are only used once and then just sit in your self. While the 1E, 3/3.5E, and 5E DMGs are reference books that you will continue to return to.
BTW, I would love to hear a review from you on the PF 1E and 2E GMGs.
I believe a lot of it comes down to penny pinching.
So many companies save money by cutting back on the important things, then blow it all on nonsense.
Definitely. It's pretty frustrating to see that it's a trend that's probably here to stay
I don’t think it COMPLETELY sucks, just mostly 😊 I’ve used it for some optional rules, magic items, and the adventure design tables (though at this point I use Tome of Adventure Design and Worlds Without Number for that)
The lack of cross-references was so rough as I was starting. Particularly when they referenced the PHB…
Session 0’s were not a categorized thing at the time of publishing. At all. This was 9years ago at this point. They added it to…Tasha’s cauldron of everything? I think?
Magic items were explicitly called out as not generally available for sale in the DMG. The assumption at time of publishing was that they would be very rare, so they give some guidelines, but it explicitly says they aren’t likely to be able to buy and sell them. This turned out later to not be how most people played their games.
I probably don't give the 5e DMG enough respect. It's clearly written for first-time DMs, which is probably a good thing. It does have some nice random tables in it. The maps in the back are really good. I just find myself reaching for the 1e DMG a lot more.
Why, because the 1e DMG has things like: mythic associations with gemstones (and, dammit, every DMG should have illustrations or pictures of the gemstones!), healing herbs, non-European noble titles (though the 1e Pathfinder DMG was much better for this), random demon-creation tables, and stuff like that. (Big caveat on my praise of the 1e DMG: the organization is craptacular.)
My son wanted to play DnD, so we came at it cold having just discovered RPGs, and I have to say I found not just the DM Guide but all the DnD materials were unbelievably disorganized, bloated with needless micromanagement rules, and weirdly "in the weeds" with a lot of things I cant see why DMs and players couldnt just make up for themselves unless they are devoid of imagination.
I also really didn't like the way the Monster Manual cherry picked the names of creatures from myth and folklore but then the creature described is wildly disconnected from its folkloric roots. Why not just make up new names if you're making up the creature anyway?
And the character sheet - why do we need 50 skill or talents listed with bonuses? Its a game, not a reality model simulation that needs to be subtle. I dont see why there need to be more than 3 stats or modifiers at all.
Anyway I could go on a lot - DnD is a bloated mess was my impression.
YaaaY Teachers!!!