One of my videos uses the song "In The Hall of the Mountain King," a royalty free song available on youtube's own audio library. It was claimed for copyright infringement. (For those unaware, youtube has creation tools featuring music they ENCOURAGE you to use.) Why that song was claimed boggles my mind.
Are you serious!? That is some real crap. I mean its a free song from TH-cam. I have a few uploads with their music too!...This is beyond words at this point. The Death of TH-cam...hello Twitch.
It wouldn't surprise me if the algorithm was accidentally flagging stuff in the name of the GEMA. Here in Germany, they have this silly monopoly rule that can be basically summed up with "All your songs are belong to us, unless you can prove otherwise"
Exactly why I'm creating my own website. TH-cam is essentially a FREE TOOL for exposure and advertising your name. That's what companies putting their commercials up here saw it as back in the day. It was something so amazing because you can manage and talk to a fanbase regularly, get your name out there for free, THEN they made a way to make money off advertisements as a PRIVILEGE really. So at the end of the day, as a private website, TH-cam can change TOS and do whatever the fuck they want and screw over everyone, sadly. Yes, this is a job. A risky one. People don't realize that depending on this as their main source of income is outright dangerous. I monetize my videos and such but no matter how much money I make, I'd never sit back and get comfortable with this. At the end of the day, it's not my site and TH-cam will always have leverage over me. They are in control. Are you willing to accept that they have control? Don't put all your eggs into one basket. We can complain all we want but we KNOW they aren't going to change shit, as always. They laugh in our faces as long as they keep making money cause they know we'll keep posting videos and just suck up the abuse...Or will we? We can bitch and moan and stay under the man, or we can ACTUALLY be creative and make something for ourselves. Make your own site if anything. True fans will still go visit you. Make the investment like TH-cam did by creating this site. Tip to avoid copyright tags: Just mute your let's plays so that game music doesn't leak through.
I don't knock people for playing video games but if they really want it as a serious career they have to aspire to do MORE than youtube too. This shit really only goes so far. I personally only see this as incentive money for my videos and to fund some of my smaller productions like buying new mics and shit for my films. I did youtube for 5+ years without being paid lmao. People get too used to being paid for their videos and that's why everyone joins and sticks on youtube just for that(Not speaking about AngryJoe, just speaking about other people that want to join just for a quick buck). This shit isn't really something to rely on as your sole income source. I don't think ANY job is.
Yes I do realize how expensive it is. Only those that take the largest leap of faith are the ones that are successful. Gotta have that vision. I'd rather try and fall than to have a bunch of "what ifs" in my life.
you're contradicting yourself. going on and on about how youtube is unreliable as a job to then end saying that every job is, making it a moot point. "at any job, there's a chance of getting fired every day, so why bother eh?" is what you're really saying. but that's not how the world works. not everyone can be their own boss.
Funny thing is, Several of my videos got flagged too, while I play my own interpretations and arrangements of music from games on piano. Somehow the system even recognizes the melodies on a different instrument in original content. Even some of my own compositions got wrongly flagged to some person I couldn't even find anywhere on internet. And above all, I don't earn any money with my videos on TH-cam. I wouldn't mind if a company approached me and asked me not to do what I do, but this automated system is just dumb and flags anything without even checking if it's legal use and let's use worry about disputing all hundreds of videos.
It can recognize modified melodies on different instruments, but cannot recognize a video (such as a Family Guy clip) that has been ever so slightly distorted from the original resolution... it's almost like TH-cam is *trying* to get us (collectively, I don't post content so I'm fine [hopefully :/] )!
Remix Maker There's a reason why TH-cam bans and demonetizes videos instead of taking people to court. We signed away our rights in the Terms of Service. That means TH-cam can do whatever they want to our comments, videos, and profiles. But if they tried to take a TH-camr to court for stealing content, they would get their ass served. And having a ToS to hide behind doesn't mean they aren't immune to their community leaving or protesting their dumbass decisions. We need to scream, rage and vote with our wallets to fix this.
EricLeafericson There are limits to the Terms of Service. Although the videos, comments, etc. are essentially their property, they still have to follow a set of guidelines. They can't do ANYTHING they want with the stuff on TH-cam, just like kitchen knives are our property but we shouldn't use them for any malicious intent (such as murder). Also, if TH-cam was taken to court by some of us, they wouldn't indefinitely lose. Think about it, Google is a large, wealthy corporation with lots of good, high-paying lawyers and most likely lots of defendants. Many of us are just simple people, without the money nor the evidence to convict them of any wrongdoings. Also, to combine the thoughts of millions of people into a single case to present against them would be incredibly difficult and impractical (forgot the term for that mass court case)
Darticus the Great I see your point about some copyright company playing courtroom stall. But it's far cheaper for them to just delete your account. And a group of people can collectively sue one company. It's called a class action suit, and I hope TH-cam loses to one. That would be a neat little kick-starter, wouldn't it? Someone more knowledgeable about law than me notices a loophole in TH-cam's copyright claiming system, and crowd-sources the legal fees to take on TH-cam. The reward for donating to the Kickstarter is to receive representation during the case, and getting a cut of the damages TH-cam will pay. The more people donate, the more the lawyer can sue for, and the more money TH-cam has to pay.
EricLeafericson Right, thanks for reminding me of the name. Class action suit, I knew that :P Anyway, that would be quite interesting (though not sure if possible) to start a pledge to sue TH-cam on Kickstarter
So, they can get the money for their 10 seconds of clip and also for the 20 MINS OF YOUR HARD WORK? They are monetizing content that does not belong to Them, so they are doing exactly the same thing that we are getting penalized for. Hypocrates laws and Companies.
Ironically companies PAY money to show off trailers in TV in cinema. How can they not be ok with promoting it for free? They should love the viral impact of youtube and social media.
Because the TV ad does not review it. The TV ad is made by the company so it only shows the pros not the cons. Angry Joe stands on the consumers' side, so the industries don't like it, but we comsumers love it but we are little so there's not much we can do, unless we do a blood pledge like, "WE'RE NOT GONNA BUY ANY FUCKIN GAME UNLESS JOE REVIEWS IT".
It's kind of stupid if you think about it. I don't think some of these companies even know what free advertisment really is or the impact it has on them.
They usually are and the companies that receive this b-roll footage and have it get content flagged tend to take it up with the companies in question who all respond with "Well, that shouldn't happen.' TH-cam content ID matching doesn't discriminate between legitimate permission to show things and outright piracy, and the only company known to actually enforce this system in their videos is Nintendo, and that's because they're Japanese and don't understand new media enough.
***** I remember youtube a few years ago. How the music business tried to stop youtube from having music video clips on it. There was a huge fuzz all about it. Now we jump to 2013 and guess what. Music video clips get released first on youtube. Hell MTV and all those stations hardly air music video clips anymore, they all went to "reallity" tv crap. Movie video clips are now specially made for youtube and music is very normal on youtube. Pirating music is illigal but listening to it on youtube is perfectly legal as a lot of bands have official channels here. With the smart thing of having a iTunes buy button/link in it. Why? Because it works. The game industry is years behind on the music industry. Why not do the same as the music industry. Instead of having iTunes have links to online stores where people can buy it. Imagine how much more money that will earn them. TH-camrs are a great way to advertise your game without you having to do a darn thing for it. Have that link and bam, you sit on gold. But i think it can goes two ways now. Either youtube goes to fix things and publishers will see the future (hell most of them do, i mean Ubisoft, Blizzard, and plenty of others already said they are not flagging a thing, that they are happy with the youtubers making movies). Or youtube will soon be another "youtube? Oh wasn't that a big site one day before videosaresocooltowatch became a great hit?". Cause youtube is making some lethal mistakes lately and this can't last forever. People do get sick and tired of it eventually and move on.
What really makes no sense to me is the fact that they can claim the video and make 100 percent of the money off it, for only a few seconds of their content being in it. So where is the submit claim button for those companies making money off of 95 percent of your hard work content?
Imagine all the time and effort to comb through billions of videos to claim their content. They barely will break even. Its a loosing proposition all the way down their line.
I'm not even sure most of these companies are even legit; the names I keep seeing in the videos I've seen of people having this problem are absolutely ridiculous. This Content ID feature is clearly being exploited on a massive scale by scammers. I think people need to stop trying to compromise with these criminals and TH-cam is currently aiding and abetting them so we shouldn't settle for anything less than the removal of said feature and the return of anything that was stolen. Some how, I don't see that happening though. Google comes off to me as an arrogant organization and they have been for a long time.
It wont surprise me when you tube or company's claim almost all the video content on TH-cam, just for using the service. They see these channels as cash cows and are now pushing to take control of your hard work. This whole thing reminds me of the gun control attempts as of late. You tube is but a shadow of what its was meant to be.
Dymeleon No joke, just bullshit. I can't imagine spending the amount of time AJ has on these videos only to have them claim something that is really 98 percent all his hard work. That is such BS
I am flagging this video and taking it down because at 25:36 u may not hear it very well but at the slightest sound you can hear an icecream truck go by. The icecream truck was playing a theme... a very specific theme that i once heard when i was 4. Im flagging this video and sueing you for everything you got. You better watch your back joe.
Black Hornet You had no hint of sarcasm whatsoever. That wasn't any joke. And it's not a joke when you tell someone to go fuck themself. If that's a joke to you then you have a terrible sense of humor and you should get a life. Now a rest my case. *puts hands up and walks out the door*
***** they implemented this so that when these so called "companies" come bitching to youtube/google they can just go "we have nothing to do with this, here is our system, claim your music."
Thats true. We just have to think about the new comment system or the new design and now this ID-System. All this have the same in common: Its all full of bugs. Most publishers even did not send all those claims and they want our videos of their games! For now its full of pirates, illegal things like we had with the new comments system just some weeks ago.... so im curious what Google wants to apologize for that. A simple "Sorry" is not enough....
I'm a really small content producer here and my most viewed video has been claimed and won against 3 of my requests. The video is a comedy on how the english in marvel vs capcom can sound as portuguese. And I subtitled it. At one point, one character sounds like he is saying JESUS! - TH-cam claims that the word JESUS on the video is claimed by the largest religious channel in Brazil and I lost all the revenue for the my most viewed video (500k plus) and NEVER got any response from either party.
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins The name Jesus is copyright?! Doesn't "copyright" wear out after, what, 50 years? Or a given set number? 2000 years?! Besides, I don't think any of the writers of the New Testament placed a claim in with the Copyright office... The name is, legally, fair game and free usage to ALL. In any event, you CANNOT COPYRIGHT A NAME under ANY of our legal systems. (Sure, God could, but since he didn't copyright his son's name - there were a few in Israel's history that had it before Jesus - then even THAT point is moot) What on earth is going on with TH-cam?
You know, I'm beginning to think someone at Google is trolling pretty much EVERYONE by turning TH-cam into a testing ground for an ID program in its ALPHA stage.
Your not alone in dealing with this TH-cam Copyright BS. A few Mash-Ups i've tried to upload have been flagged and blocked by random companies. Even a V-log I have uploaded now got flagged because or a song that you can BARELY hear playing in the background of Walmart, and it really pisses me off. I agree with you all the way, TH-cam, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!
***** "I have no sympathy for people who want to use other's intellectual property for their own purposes, and especially if they want to monetize." then how come games are ok and legal to play on youtube? the problem is not the content itself the problem is the music itself that are within a game or a video that you have created. I think you don't understand the actual issue because you dont know the internet nor youtube.
***** Thats because of "GEMA", a "copyright collective" that only operates in Germany, and adds even more restraints to TH-cam's copyright policies. They even had the "brilliant" idea to let kindergartens pay for copying sheet music for the children...
***** You said the videos got blocked by WMG? As far as I know, thats Warner Music Group. Angry Joe also received some copyright claims by them, and I think they didnt actually release the claims.
***** They are, but if even Angry Joe can't change their minds, then there's not much you can do. I know this sucks, especially if you've put a lot of work into recording and editing the video, but I don't think there's a way to change this. (except for switching to a whole new platform, but we all know how deserted vimeo and the like are ...)
***** I just head over to your channel and watched some parts of the claimed video. It's basically just AC gameplay footage. I have no idea why they could possibly argue it would belong to them. probably their main point is that the video isn't a let's play or a review, it's just a bare playthrough. One of the main laws Angry Joe referred to to protect his videos is that the content is yours if you remix / change it in your video. That obviously doesn't count for playthroughs ...
It's the only system that goes completely against standard law and copyright enforcement. Where the burden of proof isn't on the accuser, you're already guilty if you get content ID matches. So yeah, It's literally being told you're guilty until you can prove otherwise, How did that mentality even get HERE? What happened to "Don't be evil" google? The percentage share, I can agree with.
TheEvilAdventurer Heyo! :) This has hit me pretty hard too, I paused making videos obviously because of this disaster. So I'm sorry for the long wait for my next one.
This is the most logical and heart-felt debate over this system that I've seen thus far. EVERYTHING was covered, and covered perfectly - and it didn't even end on a 'TH-cam are dicks and this is the end of everything' note - but instead, a much more reasonable and compromised note that actually presents decent steps forward to fixing this whole thing - not just for critics - but for everyone. Fucking respect, Joe.
My videos are being claimed for using songs that I never used! I was flagged for using the "Assassin's Creed III" soundtrack, but I never used it! Ever!
Ubisofts policies are different from most. They're cool about it and I quote (Not really) "We don't give a shit about our content you're promoting it... Be our guests.
Here's the problem with all of this copyright claim crap! The work of TH-cam creators is valued at approximately "0", whereas anyone who creates content for a corporation, their creations are valued at 100%.
The main thing wrong with this video is "Or something like that." Joe, you don't seem to know exactly what is going on. Who is claiming what, why tings are being claimed, etc. SuperBunnyHopShow (or something like that) gave you big ups and explained it a little better than you did. I doubt this post will get much love but here's hoping. The new YT system is beyond fucked man. Much love to you in the future.
I just discovered you today bro and I just wanna say thank you for explaining all this. As a fellow content creator who needs to use copyrighted material to illustrate points, you have helped me to understand the position i am in. 4 years of hard work.....
MySpace sucked for a long time, but people stuck around because there was nothing better. Then facebook popped up and almost literally overnight, MySpace became a ghost town. TH-cam will be next. The moment an alternative pops up, you'll hear nothing but crickets. Only grandparents will be left because nobody told them where everyone else left to.
Exactly right. MySpace damn-near went to hell in a matter of weeks. The same will happen to TH-cam. Somebody is out there watching the site go to hell and will seize the opportunity to swoop in and create a profitable alternative. Fuck Google.
Lokim23 you mean just strip away all the modern "features" of youtube. and leave it so you can comment to anyone and upload anything thats not a complete film
Dude let's face it. Who are you really? You are a nobody. What makes you think I'm going to jump off a bridge because a nobody has told me to? Who still makes Justin Bieber references as insults too? Seriously dude you need a break from the internet. lol
Joe what is happening to your videos is illegal. I dont work in the patent industry, but most of my family does and these people are called "patent trolls", although i guess they would be "copyright trolls" in this case. Its not new tactics by them, but what they are doing is illegal. Dont settle for them taking "the percentage that their X seconds is out of a 30 minute video", then you would actually be feeding an illegal practice. Theoretically, you could counter-sue on probably most (if not all) of alleged infringements. But its very easy to relate to why you feel that it is unfair. But its not "just" unfair, its also downright illegal. You have the law on your side, make the most of it. Punish them! If you dont feel you have the money taking them to court, present the cases to a good copyright lawyer and ill bet you that he/she/they will gladly take the case on a "no cure no pay" basis, where they get a cut of the settlement. If all of the alleged infringements have been done automatically by youtube, then its a different case, but it would still be in violation of law (and probably a lot larger settlement), since they are taking away your money. The videocopilot thing really makes it sound a lot like patent (or "copyright") trolls though. Let their attacks make you rich! Puniiiish!
Joe is really becoming the mascot of the battle against TH-cam. Just as he was one of the biggest mascots against Microsoft in the days before the XBox One was released. He really is one of the most political and forceful Internet personalities out there. It's something I appreciate about him a lot. I especially appreciate that he never really takes an accusatory tone. He tries to understand things from the perspective of the 'villain,' even if their almost obviously wrong. I've admired you for a while, but this video is what earned a subscription. Keep up the great work.
Joe, you are an extremely hard worker and absolutely deserve to be compensated for your work! Consider contacting Electronic Frontier Foundation to look into lawsuits for illegal copyright claims of content that is legally covered by Fair Use doctrine. Not to profit, but to punish abusers and to force TH-cam to change their extremely one-sided policies.
Hey Joe. Why not start an online petition and pass it on to other high sub content creators? Probably won't change anything, but it's worth a shot. With all of your subs combined, there would probably be millions of signees.
Here's my suggestion on how we should fight the content ID system. Everybody, all reviewers like Angryjoe, TotalBiscuit, BlisteredThumbs, Razorfist, ProJared, SmoshGaming, TobyGaming, and let's players like PewDiePie, Markiplier, and more band together to form a class-action lawsuit against not the companies but TH-cam for violating the fair use act. Public attention that big could raise major support and gain this illegal act a lot more attention. Either that or Anonymous attacks.
Hey man, I just checked out your channel. Although I don't like League of Legends, I'd like to say you look very professional and to keep up the great work no matter what.
I didn't really pay much attention to the controversy but after watching this I can see how it's a potentially huge issue (probably not anticipated to be this significant). If it isn't fixed quickly in a way everyone can accept then it's going to mean a lot of revenue loss for everyone. This guy does an outstanding job of explaining the (hopefully unintended) impact an automated system can have - need to fix this quick google before it snowballs...
Not if I can help it Quick to the setting on my other channels! :D *Jump out window* Oh crap! I'm on the 5th story in the building \(O_O)/ *Bam!* *Car Alarm* I'm o.k.... (~_~)
I know I'm late here. But I'll always support you man, there are a lot of people out there doing similar kinds of things that you do, but I don't know anyone as committed, dedicated, true and honest about everything like you are. I have a lot of respect for you because of that, and is the reason why I've been following your videos for years now. Don't ever give up on it. - A loyal fan.
Dead bees and dead deer, dead crows and dead cows are more than can be counted but no one seems to care. The Earth quakes and it shakes, it moves and it slides. And all seems to be snoozing like a bear in a cave. Tornadoes and tsunamis, tropical storms and typhoons. And no one gets the point, as if nothing is happening. And so you may be saying " why should I care about these things? They happens all the time". So let me remind you in case you know not, their intensity has increased as a pregnant woman in pain that about to give birth. Our planet is dying, our planet is dimming and soon you will too if you know the Lord not. So you think it's a joke when one says "the end's near". And so you may be laughing and so you may be mocking. You may laugh all you want, you may mock all you can but there's just a little thing that I think you should know and it's that God is not mock so you better watch out. So if you are dozing then now it's time to wake up because the bridegroom is coming and you better be ready. And out of curiosity you may be asking" How can I get ready, I've sin all my life?" It's simple really as all you'll have to do is believe upon the One who can wash away your sins and make you as pure as gold refine in a fiery furnace. His name is Jesus. Yes Jesus the Christ. The lamb of God, and the savior of mankind. So what are you waiting for? Death to coming knocking on your door? By then it'll be too late so it's wise to serve Him now. Just you remember friend, life is so very short. So make the right choice before you lose all your voice.
Jude Dominique no offense dude your comment was ok and all but people like you need to accept not everyone is christian and so stop trying to convert everyone its god dam annoying.
Jude Dominique I bet you spent all night working on that or did you just copy and past that from some other bible thumping, Christian pushing site? Not everyone wants to hear about god or Jesus every second of everyday. And on that note how the flying fuck did this have anything to do with what Joe was talking about in this video? People like you need to just shut the hell up about your beliefs, you don't hear devil worshipers pushing their shit so don't press your shit where it don't belong.
Ozz Ozzy or companies can pull they're heads out of they're asses and stop being assholes and copyrighting shit that doesn't belong to them. I can't even enjoy Star Wars video game play through without seeing copyright from Sony Music Entertainment even though they don't own the rights to star wars music anymore
This isn't TH-cam anymore. It's Google+Tube. What a nightmare! You, & those of us who make reviews, critiques, parodies, etc... are being trampled on unjustly.
I was going to start getting into content creation. But one of my friends also going into content creation almost got a claim for containing clips from cartoons, songs, ect...
TheSquid I was, as well. But now my 'dream' is pretty much crushed until something happens, which unlikely will. It's a sad day to know that, once again, we all have been fucked by a big corporation...
Thanks for this. As a non-partnered channel, I was just under the impression that everyone had to deal with this and it's just impossible to monetize a Let's Play. Everything I put up get's flagged and disabled for monetization. The ones that don't get flagged WILL get flagged once they reach a certain number of views. Twitch.TV is the only place that will pay for video game related content in my experience.
Would Twitch really be Better? How would I make my stuff work there? Would I need to make an Account and Upload Videos just like TH-cam or does it work Differently?
You are by far my favorite you tube personality...your enthusiasm and passion are much appreciated. I absolutely loved your xbox one and ps4 unboxings. I was totally stoked for their release and your videos reminded me of how I felt unboxing my own consoles, I will watch them again and again especially when I need a good smile. Bless you my friend and thanks or bringing joy to me and the masses. Vince
TH-cam is broken right now, there is NO excuse for this. This is borderline illegal! Small clips can be used for parody. Does Saturday Night Live have to pay everyone that they parody???? This is out of hand and needs fixed asap!
All the claims we have disputed have been rejected for us. Most of the disputes are in the games we are playing, like GTAV. It's troublesome for us, because the only way to fight it now is to appeal it. If that falls through, then we get copyright strikes for no reason. We honestly haven't a clue as to what to do now. I agree with Joe, split the rev on situations like this. We have a video were there are claimed by, literally, 17 companies. All music related, due to the music played in Saints Row IV. The disputes were rejected. What do we do now? TH-cam, please fix this!
TH-cam shouldn't assume that a 5 second clip of a musical hook would make or break the deal for most people considering to buy a song. This reeks of diminishing returns. By spending more and more money in order to reduce piracy, at some point the effort doesn't make sense from a profitability standpoint.
I don't think they should receive any percent of revenue. Nobody buys 15% of a song, nobody buys 1% of a movie. You shouldn't have to just to have them shown in your video for what is essentially free advertisement. You're providing a free independent service for these people, they have no right to demand money from you.
This was a much better video than the other. It can be argued that you were upset, and rightfully so. Also, you're AngryJoe so it's to be expected. Regardless, both videos showcased your passion and enthusiasm for games, and how these copyright shenanigans as of late are impacting it. I really like your idea about the revenue percentage if companies end up claiming your video for however long the use in question is. It's much more fair than just outright 100% for them, and none for the content creator. I realize that companies like Nintendo and Sega would just claim 100% of the video in question with this system as well, and if that's the case we just have to simply not do videos on their stuff. It sucks that that's the road we have to take, but in the end it's the developers loss in potential sales. The Content ID system is terribly flawed, as a good many developers had no idea that this was happening up until now. Hopefully with their backing we'll be able to come up with a better compromise to all of this. Your revenue idea is a great start, hopefully more positive things are on the way. Thanks for being real Joe, as a gamer and smaller content creator it's very much appreciated!
There are a lot of complicated fixes that need to be done, including the "percentage" awareness Joe talks about. However, the first thing that must happen to stop punishing users and allowing shady corporate theft is to put ad revenue from contested videos in escrow rather than automatically rewarding them to the company making the claim. Currently anyone making a claim, even a false one, gets paid while actual content creaters can have revenue stolen from them with no recourse or defense. That is clearly not a working system. With the revenue held in escrow, whoever wins the dispute gets the future monetisation rights AND the ad revenue from during the dispute. It would still be a broken system and an unreliable mechanic for finding copyright violation, but it would make TH-cam usable again for the people whose livelihoods depend on it.
Your trouble with Video Copilot and their response illustrates one of the biggest problems with copyright enforcement right now. There are virtually no repercussions for people who abuse the system.
Can't you just sue them for stealing your hard earned money?? This is kinda like those companies that collect money for charity like for disasters, hurricane victims, If anyone donates money to a cause like that, these companies TAKE about 95% of the money that YOU donated for those poor people, so they are basicaly making profit of other people's misery and pain, just like these youtube companies are taking your money and they take 100%
The proper way they should be doing this is that when it gets flagged, both parties are alerted, and it is up to the "infringed" party to decide whether to pursue the monetization or not. and if they do pursue it, and get disputed and lose, i think there should be a fine. That would discourage false/frivolous claims.
FFS. What type of world is this? we're part of, what is now a 'corrupt community'. It's absolutley shocking to see Joe has been crying, let alone how shocking it is to see the fact he's scared to play specific parts of his videos due to being scared they will get flagged, it's disgusting! of all the money this huge companies make and they're after bare minimum income from ad revenue? just inhumain it really is.
***** Oh definitely not judging! I mean, i completely understand the situation he's in, and I would see why, I was just pointing out that he still seems sick also, so that could be part of it.
Just had a terrible flu induced dream. TH-cam shattered,and all the shards flew into my stomach and ripped my intestines to shreds. I woke up with a really bad stomach ache just now.
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Oh boy, here we go. I really admire all your work. You are a very brave man, opening up for us all. You truly inspire us and I sure hope this can make a difference! Oh, and btw, Carl Orff, composer of Carmina Burana (O fortuna), died in 1982. So the music is classic indeed, but it's not public domain.
12:36 Yes. They should get a percentage based on what percentage of the video is copyrighted. For this channel, they should get 0% since fair use law in the USA states "Fair use that permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders" This includes commentary, search engines, criticism, news reporting, research, product review, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. You fall under the product review category. TH-cam is breaking the law by forcing false copyright claims like this.
Thanks for this video Joe. I dont make content but I do use YT all the time and understand the value of your work. So thanks for explaining what has happened.
Great Video Joe. I saw you first time a few days ago when you were raging about this contend id-system (with good cause, btw). But I didn't like this video so much cause it did not contain so much useful information. Now this one does. Great video. You really put a whole bunch of useful informations in your new one!
As someone who's produced their own versions of public domain Christmas tracks, I can safely say that you should never use Public Domain music ever. So I made my own rendition of "Oh Holy Night", and I put it up on youtube for my subscribers to hear. As soon as the video gets done processing, WMG locked me out of doing any edits on the meta tags and information and TH-cam sent me an email stating WMG claimed my music. I contested and WMG released my video in early January, well after the christmas season ended. I brought up my protests to WMG and asked that they whitelist my track so my subscribers could use this track in their videos and WMG flat out ignored me. Soooooo from here on out, I will try to make my own original Christmas-spirit style tracks but never anything that's traditional. So many people have had nightmares with public domain tracks because the music industry has already claimed them under certain performances.
That is fantastic.. But everyone knows this ID system is nonsensical BS the supersedes common sense. All while Google invests there time in shit like this> news.msn.com/rumors/rumor-google-planning-microchip-brain-implant
Subbed. Very information-packed and pedagogical. Thanks for taking the time to share your top-quality facts and ideas. Always a nice feeling when you realise that you are not alone and that there are others out there, who are more elaborate and well-spoken and can defend our hobby and/or enterprice.
In regards to Joe's Inception review he highlights MC for Warner Bros. Warners will never give you ownership. I have done mini documentaries on the Superman and Batman films and you can never get past Warners claims. Warners policy is that you can use their footage and they won't block it but you CAN NOT make money from it even though your review clearly falls under fair use for criticism and for educational purposes. It sucks!.
Jack the Stripper Nobody's stealing anything. Copyright laws are fucking fossils from the past. We're in a different time now. Also, everything Joe has made has fallen under fair use.
Jack the Stripper Fair use allows for short clips of the material being reviewed. Otherwise you could never fairly represent a product to the fullest extent. Maybe you should learn something about intellectual property.
***** No, we're in a time where copyright laws don't understand digital content well enough, especially not interactive media like games. We're in a time where people are making content which falls under fair use, but because of the monetary power of publishers and huge corporations, there's nothing that we can do to stop them from abusing everybody.
***** Stop right there. There is NO stealing in showing someones art and praising it for seconds. It would be stealing if you upload a full movie for free and for everybody to watch and then it would be another crime for people earning money with a 1to1 copied version of your product. A review is neither part of both. Hell you even have television reviews of games and movies and nobody gives a serious fuck about it. Hell here in germany we have a crappy game-review show called "gameone" which does basically the same as Joe but most of the time only make bad reviews of good games resulting negative advertisement. They NEVER had a problem with copyrighting and they use soundtracks of games, ingame cutscenes etc. If you review a game you are allowed to use parts of the product you are reviewing to illustrate your point.
Not for them. Less work for TH-cam and more for everyone else. Even if TH-cam works and trys to help Angry Joe and other high view people; they will not be helping those who barely have any views.... which sucks for them.
Thanks Joe, you've helped me a bunch with understanding what the problems are with TH-cam's coyright system. This really needs to be fixed, me and were my friends plan on making a LP series and this will be useful knowledge.
Well... If they claim the video because 17 seconds of their content, you could claim it again because of the 20 minutes that you made yourself. If they have right have of all the video for seconds,why can´t you do the same? THIS IS JUST UNFAIR
***** That´s the unfair part... Your work is not different than theirs... But 17 seconds of their property are heavier than 20 minutes of Joe´s. I don´t know if it´s more sad, unfair or enfuryating... But it´s all of the above.
***** the big problem is though people who have no legal rights to claim these things(sound clips/video clips) and yet because of youtube they are allowed to. Many game companys and sound compays have sent out apologies and are working fast and hard to get this sorted out. youtube needs to get there shit together.
***** It is unfair.Why do people always say"This is bad,so just stop using it"?Why don´t we ask for improvement and fairness? It´s like saying "If gas costs too much for you,stop using your car and just walk from country to country" I prefer to ask for good things than just running away of anything I don´t like... Specially if it´s good at first and then turn bad
If they can take one of Joe's reviews and give all revenue to another company for a 15 second song, shouldn't Joe be able to flag them for making money off of a video using 20+ minutes of his material?
You can freely use up to 30 second of a copyrighted item, the 17 seconds in that video isn't breaking copyright laws, if you had more than 30 seconds then you can be done for copyright.
Go to a copyright lawyer and you will find that is true. or no site or advert or company would have preview clips other wise you'd need to pay for a lic just to do see a preview clip. So itunes can have preview clips without needing copyright permission, but they need a license to sell or stream full length music. That is the main reason why copyright laws allow for a 30 second clip to be free from copyright claims. Also if a game company put out an advert for a game no one would be legally able to view that advert because you'd need to buy a lic to view such advert. Fair use is something different, in that if your going to use something you make sure it's less than 30 second in length or has something cut like sound but image is kept but always kept to less than 30 seconds in length. and your not using it to promote piracy etc The music clip is 17 second long, so they couldn't say it's a copyright claim as you can use up to 30 seconds without needing copyright permission. Plus he's not trying to promote the artist as such but uses the song to show a point in the game, not about the song.
False. Using a shorter version of a song or video clip is still subject to the same laws as using a longer one. No where in US law is any time limit stated. However, the way he does use their content definitely does fall under fair use, so his use is totally legal. Using a shorter amount of footage just allows you to avoid the retarded content ID system better. There are other tricks that can help skirt around it, such as pitching, cropping, resizing, and mirroring footage.
Actually, you are confusing copyright laws for earning money off something with using it for a school setting. Many school systems state you can use up to 30 seconds for a school project. However, for purpose of earning money it follows a different system. Vantom91 put that correctly
zagan1 I have an entertainment Lawyer. I am a producer on several upcoming short documentaries and we are currently going through clearance. I assure you, the length of time does not matter in any way when dealing with Copyrighted content. You will pay for it regardless if it is 1 second or the entire piece. Unless you can argue fair use (Which sadly I cannot) but angryjoe can.
Joe, just FYI, the Ministry of Sound is UK's big recording label, very much like EMI or Sony. They are notoriously litigious, they are actually suing Spotify (a commercial music streaming system) because *some user's playlists too closely match their own compilation albums*. The music is completely and legally being streamed by Spotify, but because Ministry of Sound UK thinks the playlist order is *owned* by them due to the fact that they made an album that presents the songs in that order they are suing to have the playlists forcibly removed from user accounts! I mean how fucked up is that?! They think they *OWN* the rights to how songs are organized and listened too!
So in order to punish that 0.01% of content that is illegal, they're also punishing the remaining 99.99%. Because that's just how it is, the great majority of the content on YT, even if copyrighted, is still being used under fair use. This system is absurd. It's creating way more problems than solutions, and it's harming the industry as well, even if indirectly.
Appreciate your video and I agree with your synopsis. Unfortunately and regrettably I fear little will change given the increased copyright nature of our society today. But something does need to be done regarding warentless claims.
This is getting ridiculous, the copyright system is so dumb. Revenue Sharing system would make a lot more sense if companies are going to pursue this, them getting 100% of the revenue for a few seconds of footage is hardly fair.
please vlog every step of your fight. I love these vlogs and i love to get regular updates on the subject. Also, they are a good way to generate some extra revenue whilst your other videos are still down.
I got flagged on best Fee MMOs 2013 by playNC for showing 20secs on their AION trailer in a 11minute video that has already 25k views and get 5k views a month!
Zarosu It's most likely not the developer fucking up here. It's most likely either false automated positives or someone else claiming they own the rights to the content. It's something to do with the way they changed the flagging system. Thousands of valid videos are being hit hard. This includes Valve gameplay footage videos, which are fully supported by Valve in every aspect to include monetization. It's obviously something that Google once again fucked up.
I think youtube feels like they can get away with anything but actually they are facing a collapse, If I was a rich opportunist I would make a website that handled content claims much better to make it easier for people. That way youtube would become a myspace
***** 4Skyrim 4cmd you all are forgetting.- youtube was a risk to make. There are already other places you can stream. However, how many of them are noticed at the level of youtube? Do you know that there are other places to show videos from? Twitch is a good alternative - but there are even other websites out there. However, so few people know about them - they are not used as often as youtube. Shoot - TMZ and Entertainment Tonight even has a "youtube" video they show from time to time.
BoydofZINJ what you are missing is that when there is a super company like apple, microsoft, sony, they cant be overcome when they are in their prime. Again I go go back to myspace as an example. Thats why the sites you mentioned are not as big as youtube now, its only when they are weak that they can be topped. So with so much angry businesses and people all against youtube its the perfect timing.
4Skyrim I disagree. Super companies can be toppled - normally when they are at their prime they are also making terrible mistakes. Mistakes that isolate and irate their customer base, because the super companies think they can not lose. Sadly, it is mostly true - but it can happen. When ford was trying to manufacture his first car, there was an organization that tried to stop him - indicating he was selling his vehicles to cheap. He had to fight the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers to get the right to manufacture his car as cheap. There are other examples as well..
angryjoe, as a hint that another big channel did. any videos that are claimed, make them private immeditely until you can remove the claim. if you cant get money no one can.
Galnospoke Ummm, no. Gamers are not only first. Removing most payments from TH-cam would prevent many people from doing what they love, making content on TH-cam. The fact that they can do that is a good thing, and its why we have people like Joe and TB. So, removing the money, and thus removing them, and many others, would be a net negative.
I dont think that you should compare them to each other. The previous one just shows what is going through his mind and doesnt filter any of his emotions. Its not the "Calm Joe Show".
Best story I heard so far: NerdCubed got one of his videos flagged by Valve, claiming his revenue and all but their website says that you can use any of their games if you want to make videos about them and monotize them. So he did what anyone would do - wrote a mail and asked what the hell. Shortly after they answered and guess what, they didn't know what was going on either. SOMEBODY simply created an account, claiming to be Valve and started flagging Valve related content and earning other peoples add revenue. Awesome system you got going there Google. G to the G man.
The thing that scares me the most about this, is that you wont just lose revenue from using just a few seconds of some trailer og soundtrack. But there is a youtuber called MiracleOfSound who makes music about games and movies primarily, and even though he might have (most likely) gotten flagged because he makes such content, he has gotten claimed for stealing, from himself.
I really hope things turn out okay for you, man. I always wanted to be able to make money off of stuff I make, and I was hoping to look into that around this coming year, yet its situations like this which make me look the other way. I'm not like you. I'm not someone whos had experience of revenue and all. I would be someone just starting out. I'm not experienced or knowledgeable on how the whole thing works, and to be honest it actually kinda scares me on how the penalties might work when you make a mistake and you get a claim alert. I wish you the best of luck with your situation and I hope you can still do your show. If not, then I guess that's the end of the internet. Because if you can't do your show, a lot of others will also probably do the same. I do agree with your ideas and feel they would really make everyone happy. I never made money from content I made, but sharing the revenue makes a lot more sense then one person getting it all, and I wouldn't mind having to deal with that.
I am now 100% sure that TH-cam brings out these new systems half done and completely broken, so that they have something to do with themselves other than count money. Because there is no way a competent company would do this to their user-base. No way. xD
okay so youtube says "due to their intellectual property being used you need to pay them" and it's a legit argument. but ffor the whole amount to be given...that's messed up for the small time it's in for
I was wondering about that Skyrim-flag. I'm glad you clarified that. I would have been really disappointed with Bethesda, if it was them. I hadn't realized how bad it had gotten. I noticed a couple of weeks ago a music video parody (where they don't use any content of the original music video) was blocked in germany for the music they themselves had produced (and therefore GEMA clearly doesn't have any rights to). I thought it was just a glitch, but I bet it's part of this bigger issue. That system needs to be fixed asap. If they don't fix it, big TH-camrs (together) should take legal action against TH-cam. The old system was bad enough. This is imho borderline criminal. I am kinda starting to hate TH-cam with all the stupid shit they do lately.
If Google/TH-cam were forced to pay compensation to all the content creators, publishers, music software tool maker people and everyone affected and inconvenienced by this, I bet they'd stop making stupid changes pretty fucking fast. Mostly because they'd be put of business for the amount they'd have to pay, but that's beside the point.
Yeah see that flagging was illegal in and off itself: using material in a comedic or parody fashion, whether it's a video or making fun of an important person is complete fine, where legal stuff is concerned. Flagging something that is legal especially when it's used as a parody is ILLEGAL. TH-cam really needs to get that into their head (sorry if I was too redundant...)
If youtube wants to be ACTUALLY fair, they should only award ad revenue as a percentage of the video that it's used in. So in the case of the Skyrim review, if a song plays for 16 seconds, out of a *20 minute* review you did, then they only deserve 0.013 % of the ad revenue. They do NOT deserve to collect ad revenue on the entire video, which you put together and edited yourself. What TH-cam is doing, is allowing copyright trolls to take others ad revenue, "legally". About 4 of the smaller gaming channels I was subscribed to are now permanently gone. *slow clap* bravo TH-cam, you're totally not hurting yourself with this. And now one of my favourite channels: CGR (classic game room) has moved off site completely and is using dailymotion for uploads. I have adblock up for everything, only using certain exceptions, for channels I enjoy and like to support. By killing these channels, you don't get anything from me youtube. Adblock for the rest. G'day
![มองหน้ากันไม่ติด (Awkward) - โอ๊ต ปราโมทย์ FEAT. MAIYARAP [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4b02SY_r6Gw/mqdefault.jpg)
One of my videos uses the song "In The Hall of the Mountain King," a royalty free song available on youtube's own audio library. It was claimed for copyright infringement. (For those unaware, youtube has creation tools featuring music they ENCOURAGE you to use.) Why that song was claimed boggles my mind.
same stuff happened to me!! I am with Fullscreen and this issue was happening. I messaged Fullscreen and they solved it for me
Are you serious!? That is some real crap. I mean its a free song from TH-cam. I have a few uploads with their music too!...This is beyond words at this point. The Death of TH-cam...hello Twitch.
It wouldn't surprise me if the algorithm was accidentally flagging stuff in the name of the GEMA. Here in Germany, they have this silly monopoly rule that can be basically summed up with "All your songs are belong to us, unless you can prove otherwise"
Would you possibly want to help me out?
TH-cam is dead to me after hearing this.
NOT A WHOLE 17 SECONDS OF THEIR SONG!
THEY ARE ECONOMICALLY RUINED, HOW COULD YOU JOOOOOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly why I'm creating my own website.
TH-cam is essentially a FREE TOOL for exposure and advertising your name. That's what companies putting their commercials up here saw it as back in the day. It was something so amazing because you can manage and talk to a fanbase regularly, get your name out there for free, THEN they made a way to make money off advertisements as a PRIVILEGE really. So at the end of the day, as a private website, TH-cam can change TOS and do whatever the fuck they want and screw over everyone, sadly. Yes, this is a job. A risky one. People don't realize that depending on this as their main source of income is outright dangerous. I monetize my videos and such but no matter how much money I make, I'd never sit back and get comfortable with this. At the end of the day, it's not my site and TH-cam will always have leverage over me. They are in control. Are you willing to accept that they have control? Don't put all your eggs into one basket. We can complain all we want but we KNOW they aren't going to change shit, as always. They laugh in our faces as long as they keep making money cause they know we'll keep posting videos and just suck up the abuse...Or will we? We can bitch and moan and stay under the man, or we can ACTUALLY be creative and make something for ourselves. Make your own site if anything. True fans will still go visit you. Make the investment like TH-cam did by creating this site.
Tip to avoid copyright tags: Just mute your let's plays so that game music doesn't leak through.
I don't knock people for playing video games but if they really want it as a serious career they have to aspire to do MORE than youtube too. This shit really only goes so far.
I personally only see this as incentive money for my videos and to fund some of my smaller productions like buying new mics and shit for my films. I did youtube for 5+ years without being paid lmao. People get too used to being paid for their videos and that's why everyone joins and sticks on youtube just for that(Not speaking about AngryJoe, just speaking about other people that want to join just for a quick buck). This shit isn't really something to rely on as your sole income source. I don't think ANY job is.
Do you realize how expensive and hard that would be to make? And also that would mean going through a lot of legal things.
Yes I do realize how expensive it is. Only those that take the largest leap of faith are the ones that are successful. Gotta have that vision. I'd rather try and fall than to have a bunch of "what ifs" in my life.
I'm great friends with this lawyer that I'm consulting with.
you're contradicting yourself. going on and on about how youtube is unreliable as a job to then end saying that every job is, making it a moot point. "at any job, there's a chance of getting fired every day, so why bother eh?" is what you're really saying. but that's not how the world works. not everyone can be their own boss.
Funny thing is, Several of my videos got flagged too, while I play my own interpretations and arrangements of music from games on piano. Somehow the system even recognizes the melodies on a different instrument in original content. Even some of my own compositions got wrongly flagged to some person I couldn't even find anywhere on internet. And above all, I don't earn any money with my videos on TH-cam. I wouldn't mind if a company approached me and asked me not to do what I do, but this automated system is just dumb and flags anything without even checking if it's legal use and let's use worry about disputing all hundreds of videos.
It can recognize modified melodies on different instruments, but cannot recognize a video (such as a Family Guy clip) that has been ever so slightly distorted from the original resolution... it's almost like TH-cam is *trying* to get us (collectively, I don't post content so I'm fine [hopefully :/] )!
Remix Maker There's a reason why TH-cam bans and demonetizes videos instead of taking people to court.
We signed away our rights in the Terms of Service. That means TH-cam can do whatever they want to our comments, videos, and profiles. But if they tried to take a TH-camr to court for stealing content, they would get their ass served.
And having a ToS to hide behind doesn't mean they aren't immune to their community leaving or protesting their dumbass decisions. We need to scream, rage and vote with our wallets to fix this.
EricLeafericson There are limits to the Terms of Service. Although the videos, comments, etc. are essentially their property, they still have to follow a set of guidelines. They can't do ANYTHING they want with the stuff on TH-cam, just like kitchen knives are our property but we shouldn't use them for any malicious intent (such as murder). Also, if TH-cam was taken to court by some of us, they wouldn't indefinitely lose. Think about it, Google is a large, wealthy corporation with lots of good, high-paying lawyers and most likely lots of defendants. Many of us are just simple people, without the money nor the evidence to convict them of any wrongdoings. Also, to combine the thoughts of millions of people into a single case to present against them would be incredibly difficult and impractical (forgot the term for that mass court case)
Darticus the Great I see your point about some copyright company playing courtroom stall. But it's far cheaper for them to just delete your account.
And a group of people can collectively sue one company. It's called a class action suit, and I hope TH-cam loses to one.
That would be a neat little kick-starter, wouldn't it? Someone more knowledgeable about law than me notices a loophole in TH-cam's copyright claiming system, and crowd-sources the legal fees to take on TH-cam. The reward for donating to the Kickstarter is to receive representation during the case, and getting a cut of the damages TH-cam will pay. The more people donate, the more the lawyer can sue for, and the more money TH-cam has to pay.
EricLeafericson
Right, thanks for reminding me of the name. Class action suit, I knew that :P Anyway, that would be quite interesting (though not sure if possible) to start a pledge to sue TH-cam on Kickstarter
So, they can get the money for their 10 seconds of clip and also for the 20 MINS OF YOUR HARD WORK? They are monetizing content that does not belong to Them, so they are doing exactly the same thing that we are getting penalized for. Hypocrates laws and Companies.
***** It IS the same thing if you think well about it.
***** They actually can't. Someone doesn't know copyright law...
***** Man, you are saying what we already know, I'm analyzing the situation a bit deeper
*****
Fair use. It's a review and a satirical parody. Nuff said.
***** Wich company is paying you? lol
Ironically companies PAY money to show off trailers in TV in cinema. How can they not be ok with promoting it for free? They should love the viral impact of youtube and social media.
Because the TV ad does not review it. The TV ad is made by the company so it only shows the pros not the cons. Angry Joe stands on the consumers' side, so the industries don't like it, but we comsumers love it but we are little so there's not much we can do, unless we do a blood pledge like, "WE'RE NOT GONNA BUY ANY FUCKIN GAME UNLESS JOE REVIEWS IT".
It's kind of stupid if you think about it. I don't think some of these companies even know what free advertisment really is or the impact it has on them.
They usually are and the companies that receive this b-roll footage and have it get content flagged tend to take it up with the companies in question who all respond with "Well, that shouldn't happen.' TH-cam content ID matching doesn't discriminate between legitimate permission to show things and outright piracy, and the only company known to actually enforce this system in their videos is Nintendo, and that's because they're Japanese and don't understand new media enough.
shunkwugga Apparently, they think this new system is bullshit like everyone else:
wiiudaily.com/2013/12/nintendo-youtube-content/
*****
I remember youtube a few years ago. How the music business tried to stop youtube from having music video clips on it. There was a huge fuzz all about it. Now we jump to 2013 and guess what. Music video clips get released first on youtube. Hell MTV and all those stations hardly air music video clips anymore, they all went to "reallity" tv crap. Movie video clips are now specially made for youtube and music is very normal on youtube. Pirating music is illigal but listening to it on youtube is perfectly legal as a lot of bands have official channels here. With the smart thing of having a iTunes buy button/link in it. Why? Because it works.
The game industry is years behind on the music industry. Why not do the same as the music industry. Instead of having iTunes have links to online stores where people can buy it. Imagine how much more money that will earn them. TH-camrs are a great way to advertise your game without you having to do a darn thing for it. Have that link and bam, you sit on gold.
But i think it can goes two ways now. Either youtube goes to fix things and publishers will see the future (hell most of them do, i mean Ubisoft, Blizzard, and plenty of others already said they are not flagging a thing, that they are happy with the youtubers making movies). Or youtube will soon be another "youtube? Oh wasn't that a big site one day before videosaresocooltowatch became a great hit?". Cause youtube is making some lethal mistakes lately and this can't last forever. People do get sick and tired of it eventually and move on.
What really makes no sense to me is the fact that they can claim the video and make 100 percent of the money off it, for only a few seconds of their content being in it. So where is the submit claim button for those companies making money off of 95 percent of your hard work content?
Imagine all the time and effort to comb through billions of videos to claim their content. They barely will break even. Its a loosing proposition all the way down their line.
I'm not even sure most of these companies are even legit; the names I keep seeing in the videos I've seen of people having this problem are absolutely ridiculous. This Content ID feature is clearly being exploited on a massive scale by scammers. I think people need to stop trying to compromise with these criminals and TH-cam is currently aiding and abetting them so we shouldn't settle for anything less than the removal of said feature and the return of anything that was stolen. Some how, I don't see that happening though. Google comes off to me as an arrogant organization and they have been for a long time.
It wont surprise me when you tube or company's claim almost all the video content on TH-cam, just for using the service. They see these channels as cash cows and are now pushing to take control of your hard work. This whole thing reminds me of the gun control attempts as of late. You tube is but a shadow of what its was meant to be.
Dymeleon No joke, just bullshit. I can't imagine spending the amount of time AJ has on these videos only to have them claim something that is really 98 percent all his hard work. That is such BS
***** I wouldn't exactly call this hard work, but yeah it sucks that this is going on.
I am flagging this video and taking it down because at 25:36 u may not hear it very well but at the slightest sound you can hear an icecream truck go by. The icecream truck was playing a theme... a very specific theme that i once heard when i was 4. Im flagging this video and sueing you for everything you got. You better watch your back joe.
You tried.
and you failed.
Tiny Joltik I did... But this is just the beginning!!!
Im sure of it.
:l
*^Takes jokes way too seriously*
This is anything but a troll
Black Hornet You had no hint of sarcasm whatsoever. That wasn't any joke. And it's not a joke when you tell someone to go fuck themself. If that's a joke to you then you have a terrible sense of humor and you should get a life. Now a rest my case. *puts hands up and walks out the door*
Too many people at Google who know absolutely nothing about youtube are making big calls..
Yeah, I thought the internship was a movie. Didn't realize it was based on a true story.
***** they implemented this so that when these so called "companies" come bitching to youtube/google they can just go "we have nothing to do with this, here is our system, claim your music."
Thats true. We just have to think about the new comment system or the new design and now this ID-System. All this have the same in common: Its all full of bugs. Most publishers even did not send all those claims and they want our videos of their games! For now its full of pirates, illegal things like we had with the new comments system just some weeks ago.... so im curious what Google wants to apologize for that. A simple "Sorry" is not enough....
I'm a really small content producer here and my most viewed video has been claimed and won against 3 of my requests. The video is a comedy on how the english in marvel vs capcom can sound as portuguese. And I subtitled it. At one point, one character sounds like he is saying JESUS! - TH-cam claims that the word JESUS on the video is claimed by the largest religious channel in Brazil and I lost all the revenue for the my most viewed video (500k plus) and NEVER got any response from either party.
Jesus being claimed for copyright is pretty much sacrilege. This sh** needs to stop.
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins The name Jesus is copyright?! Doesn't "copyright" wear out after, what, 50 years? Or a given set number? 2000 years?! Besides, I don't think any of the writers of the New Testament placed a claim in with the Copyright office... The name is, legally, fair game and free usage to ALL. In any event, you CANNOT COPYRIGHT A NAME under ANY of our legal systems. (Sure, God could, but since he didn't copyright his son's name - there were a few in Israel's history that had it before Jesus - then even THAT point is moot)
What on earth is going on with TH-cam?
You know, I'm beginning to think someone at Google is trolling pretty much EVERYONE by turning TH-cam into a testing ground for an ID program in its ALPHA stage.
Wow never before have I heard someone trying to claim exclusive rights to Jesus & to make money from it makes it even worse
sardaomalandraj For half year "God" will have matched content on videos.
Your not alone in dealing with this TH-cam Copyright BS. A few Mash-Ups i've tried to upload have been flagged and blocked by random companies. Even a V-log I have uploaded now got flagged because or a song that you can BARELY hear playing in the background of Walmart, and it really pisses me off. I agree with you all the way, TH-cam, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!
Censorship through copyright.
***** "I have no sympathy for people who want to use other's intellectual property for their own purposes, and especially if they want to monetize."
then how come games are ok and legal to play on youtube? the problem is not the content itself the problem is the music itself that are within a game or a video that you have created. I think you don't understand the actual issue because you dont know the internet nor youtube.
TheEgyptianOne Not any more for games current top comment is me saying that gameplay footage will be getting flagged as well.
FUCK COPYRIGHT!!!
In Germany, you would even get flagged if you would sing the song yourself. I am not kidding.
***** Thats because of "GEMA", a "copyright collective" that only operates in Germany, and adds even more restraints to TH-cam's copyright policies. They even had the "brilliant" idea to let kindergartens pay for copying sheet music for the children...
***** It just doesn't make sense. There's no other way to say it.
***** You said the videos got blocked by WMG? As far as I know, thats Warner Music Group. Angry Joe also received some copyright claims by them, and I think they didnt actually release the claims.
***** They are, but if even Angry Joe can't change their minds, then there's not much you can do. I know this sucks, especially if you've put a lot of work into recording and editing the video, but I don't think there's a way to change this. (except for switching to a whole new platform, but we all know how deserted vimeo and the like are ...)
***** I just head over to your channel and watched some parts of the claimed video. It's basically just AC gameplay footage. I have no idea why they could possibly argue it would belong to them.
probably their main point is that the video isn't a let's play or a review, it's just a bare playthrough. One of the main laws Angry Joe referred to to protect his videos is that the content is yours if you remix / change it in your video. That obviously doesn't count for playthroughs ...
It's the only system that goes completely against standard law and copyright enforcement.
Where the burden of proof isn't on the accuser, you're already guilty if you get content ID matches.
So yeah, It's literally being told you're guilty until you can prove otherwise, How did that mentality even get HERE? What happened to "Don't be evil" google?
The percentage share, I can agree with.
Hi mickey love ur videos
TheEvilAdventurer Heyo! :)
This has hit me pretty hard too, I paused making videos obviously because of this disaster. So I'm sorry for the long wait for my next one.
This is the most logical and heart-felt debate over this system that I've seen thus far. EVERYTHING was covered, and covered perfectly - and it didn't even end on a 'TH-cam are dicks and this is the end of everything' note - but instead, a much more reasonable and compromised note that actually presents decent steps forward to fixing this whole thing - not just for critics - but for everyone. Fucking respect, Joe.
Oh wow I never expected one of the people I was subscribed to would like angry Joe well actually everyone likes Angry Joe
Yeah Joe's got it right. He isn't just screaming into a camera like some people. Also, your videos are pretty damn funny.
Indeed!
*****
Did you see his previous video? xD, He was just screaming into a camera, but I feel he had all the right to do so.
Well done, Angry Joe. You speak for all of us. Good job, mate.
My videos are being claimed for using songs that I never used! I was flagged for using the "Assassin's Creed III" soundtrack, but I never used it! Ever!
Ministry of sound, or Ubisoft?
Ubisofts policies are different from most. They're cool about it and I quote (Not really)
"We don't give a shit about our content you're promoting it... Be our guests.
same, one of my videos i had to take down because they claimed it had some spanish song ive never heard before LOL...
People have started posting videos on Dailymotion. And I mean gaming videos. If TH-cam doesn't clear their shit up, it's time to say goodbye.
dailmotion has almost the same copyright policies that youtube has, so, if you want to replace youtube with dailymotion, it's not worth it.
An extremely nice guy
no, i've been on dailymotion since 2010, it seems that they don't have things too clear, but trust me, they do.
An extremely nice guy
uh, what? i know that, that's why i said that trying to replace youtube with dailymotion is not worth it.
An extremely nice guy
oh i see lol
An extremely nice guy
yup c:
Here's the problem with all of this copyright claim crap! The work of TH-cam creators is valued at approximately "0", whereas anyone who creates content for a corporation, their creations are valued at 100%.
as soon as the content id system was activated, it became self-aware, and began its mission to destroy youtube
The main thing wrong with this video is "Or something like that." Joe, you don't seem to know exactly what is going on. Who is claiming what, why tings are being claimed, etc. SuperBunnyHopShow (or something like that) gave you big ups and explained it a little better than you did. I doubt this post will get much love but here's hoping. The new YT system is beyond fucked man. Much love to you in the future.
I just discovered you today bro and I just wanna say thank you for explaining all this. As a fellow content creator who needs to use copyrighted material to illustrate points, you have helped me to understand the position i am in. 4 years of hard work.....
MySpace sucked for a long time, but people stuck around because there was nothing better. Then facebook popped up and almost literally overnight, MySpace became a ghost town.
TH-cam will be next. The moment an alternative pops up, you'll hear nothing but crickets. Only grandparents will be left because nobody told them where everyone else left to.
Would Blip.tv be a good alternative to TH-cam? Can you make a profit off the videos like you can on TH-cam?
Pornotube?
Exactly right. MySpace damn-near went to hell in a matter of weeks. The same will happen to TH-cam. Somebody is out there watching the site go to hell and will seize the opportunity to swoop in and create a profitable alternative. Fuck Google.
***** "If Google doesn't think TH-cam can't die off, it's kidding itself." That's exactly what they're thinking.
Vimeo
RIP TH-cam 2013
Every day they make youtube worst and worst . .
CAME BACK OLD TH-cam !
Someone needs to make a new youtube.. and make it superior.. for the people.. made by the people.
Lokim23
you mean just strip away all the modern "features" of youtube. and leave it so you can comment to anyone and upload anything thats not a complete film
wow much grammer many spellings very commentar
Enlightned Perry you're* wow such spellz very comment much hatezer sweg
Dude let's face it. Who are you really? You are a nobody. What makes you think I'm going to jump off a bridge because a nobody has told me to? Who still makes Justin Bieber references as insults too? Seriously dude you need a break from the internet. lol
Joe what is happening to your videos is illegal. I dont work in the patent industry, but most of my family does and these people are called "patent trolls", although i guess they would be "copyright trolls" in this case. Its not new tactics by them, but what they are doing is illegal.
Dont settle for them taking "the percentage that their X seconds is out of a 30 minute video", then you would actually be feeding an illegal practice. Theoretically, you could counter-sue on probably most (if not all) of alleged infringements.
But its very easy to relate to why you feel that it is unfair. But its not "just" unfair, its also downright illegal. You have the law on your side, make the most of it. Punish them! If you dont feel you have the money taking them to court, present the cases to a good copyright lawyer and ill bet you that he/she/they will gladly take the case on a "no cure no pay" basis, where they get a cut of the settlement.
If all of the alleged infringements have been done automatically by youtube, then its a different case, but it would still be in violation of law (and probably a lot larger settlement), since they are taking away your money. The videocopilot thing really makes it sound a lot like patent (or "copyright") trolls though. Let their attacks make you rich! Puniiiish!
Joe is really becoming the mascot of the battle against TH-cam. Just as he was one of the biggest mascots against Microsoft in the days before the XBox One was released.
He really is one of the most political and forceful Internet personalities out there. It's something I appreciate about him a lot. I especially appreciate that he never really takes an accusatory tone. He tries to understand things from the perspective of the 'villain,' even if their almost obviously wrong.
I've admired you for a while, but this video is what earned a subscription. Keep up the great work.
Be our voice to speak out against all the TH-cam copyright BS, Joe! We're all gonna have your back 100%
Joe, you are an extremely hard worker and absolutely deserve to be compensated for your work!
Consider contacting Electronic Frontier Foundation to look into lawsuits for illegal copyright claims of content that is legally covered by Fair Use doctrine. Not to profit, but to punish abusers and to force TH-cam to change their extremely one-sided policies.
Hey Joe. Why not start an online petition and pass it on to other high sub content creators? Probably won't change anything, but it's worth a shot. With all of your subs combined, there would probably be millions of signees.
Here's my suggestion on how we should fight the content ID system.
Everybody, all reviewers like Angryjoe, TotalBiscuit, BlisteredThumbs, Razorfist, ProJared, SmoshGaming, TobyGaming, and let's players like PewDiePie, Markiplier, and more band together to form a class-action lawsuit against not the companies but TH-cam for violating the fair use act. Public attention that big could raise major support and gain this illegal act a lot more attention.
Either that or Anonymous attacks.
I'm sitting editing a video now, and thinking, "Will this money just go to some random company for the 50 hours of my work ?".
Hey man, I just checked out your channel. Although I don't like League of Legends, I'd like to say you look very professional and to keep up the great work no matter what.
I didn't really pay much attention to the controversy but after watching this I can see how it's a potentially huge issue (probably not anticipated to be this significant). If it isn't fixed quickly in a way everyone can accept then it's going to mean a lot of revenue loss for everyone. This guy does an outstanding job of explaining the (hopefully unintended) impact an automated system can have - need to fix this quick google before it snowballs...
Christopher Thoburn Does the money still flow even if you don't have the video monetized?
***** I'm pretty sure if you don't monetize it but a company claims it, they will run ads on the content and monetize it anyway.
Not if I can help it
Quick to the setting on my other channels! :D
*Jump out window*
Oh crap!
I'm on the 5th story in the building \(O_O)/
*Bam!* *Car Alarm*
I'm o.k.... (~_~)
Thanks for putting your ideas out there. I agree with what you're saying and I hope that everything clears up for you soon. Hang in there, bro!
I know I'm late here. But I'll always support you man, there are a lot of people out there doing similar kinds of things that you do, but I don't know anyone as committed, dedicated, true and honest about everything like you are. I have a lot of respect for you because of that, and is the reason why I've been following your videos for years now. Don't ever give up on it.
- A loyal fan.
Dead bees and dead deer, dead crows and dead cows are more than can be counted but no one seems to care. The Earth quakes and it shakes, it moves and it slides. And all seems to be snoozing like a bear in a cave.
Tornadoes and tsunamis, tropical storms and typhoons. And no one gets the point, as if nothing is happening.
And so you may be saying " why should I care about these things? They happens all the time". So let me remind you in case you know not, their intensity has increased as a pregnant woman in pain that about to give birth.
Our planet is dying, our planet is dimming and soon you will too if you know the Lord not.
So you think it's a joke when one says "the end's near". And so you may be laughing and so you may be mocking. You may laugh all you want, you may mock all you can but there's just a little thing that I think you should know and it's that God is not mock so you better watch out.
So if you are dozing then now it's time to wake up because the bridegroom is coming and you better be ready.
And out of curiosity you may be asking" How can I get ready, I've sin all my life?" It's simple really as all you'll have to do is believe upon the One who can wash away your sins and make you as pure as gold refine in a fiery furnace.
His name is Jesus. Yes Jesus the Christ. The lamb of God, and the savior of mankind.
So what are you waiting for? Death to coming knocking on your door? By then it'll be too late so it's wise to serve Him now. Just you remember friend, life is so very short. So make the right choice before you lose all your voice.
Jude Dominique no offense dude your comment was ok and all but people like you need to accept not everyone is christian and so stop trying to convert everyone its god dam annoying.
Jude Dominique Don't push your religion on me and I won't push mine on you. What are you even doing here?
Jude Dominique OMG someone trying to convert me on the internet, and on Angry Joe's page...
Would that make you a Joe Hovis Witnesses?
Jude Dominique I bet you spent all night working on that or did you just copy and past that from some other bible thumping, Christian pushing site? Not everyone wants to hear about god or Jesus every second of everyday. And on that note how the flying fuck did this have anything to do with what Joe was talking about in this video? People like you need to just shut the hell up about your beliefs, you don't hear devil worshipers pushing their shit so don't press your shit where it don't belong.
It's time to have an alternative to youtube.
There's Twitch if you'd prefer that.
Pornhub, xvideos
VarietyGamerGuy Twitch is completely different from TH-cam..
Blip, Vimeo
Ozz Ozzy or companies can pull they're heads out of they're asses and stop being assholes and copyrighting shit that doesn't belong to them. I can't even enjoy Star Wars video game play through without seeing copyright from Sony Music Entertainment even though they don't own the rights to star wars music anymore
This isn't TH-cam anymore. It's Google+Tube. What a nightmare! You, & those of us who make reviews, critiques, parodies, etc... are being trampled on unjustly.
I was going to start getting into content creation. But one of my friends also going into content creation almost got a claim for containing clips from cartoons, songs, ect...
Its really Corp-Tube
TheSquid I was, as well. But now my 'dream' is pretty much crushed until something happens, which unlikely will. It's a sad day to know that, once again, we all have been fucked by a big corporation...
And thats bad? If uncool guys see cool stuff, they become cooler.
Pretty much
Thanks for this. As a non-partnered channel, I was just under the impression that everyone had to deal with this and it's just impossible to monetize a Let's Play. Everything I put up get's flagged and disabled for monetization. The ones that don't get flagged WILL get flagged once they reach a certain number of views. Twitch.TV is the only place that will pay for video game related content in my experience.
Yeah, I do hope that I do try to start somewhere else one day.
Would Twitch really be Better?
How would I make my stuff work there?
Would I need to make an Account and Upload Videos just like TH-cam or does it work Differently?
This is a great video, and everyone should see it. TH-cam needs to fix it's copyright laws, because it's really really hard to do game walkthroughs.
You are by far my favorite you tube personality...your enthusiasm and passion are much appreciated. I absolutely loved your xbox one and ps4 unboxings. I was totally stoked for their release and your videos reminded me of how I felt unboxing my own consoles, I will watch them again and again especially when I need a good smile. Bless you my friend and thanks or bringing joy to me and the masses. Vince
TH-cam is broken right now, there is NO excuse for this. This is borderline illegal! Small clips can be used for parody. Does Saturday Night Live have to pay everyone that they parody???? This is out of hand and needs fixed asap!
All the claims we have disputed have been rejected for us. Most of the disputes are in the games we are playing, like GTAV. It's troublesome for us, because the only way to fight it now is to appeal it. If that falls through, then we get copyright strikes for no reason. We honestly haven't a clue as to what to do now.
I agree with Joe, split the rev on situations like this. We have a video were there are claimed by, literally, 17 companies. All music related, due to the music played in Saints Row IV. The disputes were rejected. What do we do now? TH-cam, please fix this!
***** If they won't take the claim down, yes.
Tell 'em, Joe!
TH-cam shouldn't assume that a 5 second clip of a musical hook would make or break the deal for most people considering to buy a song.
This reeks of diminishing returns. By spending more and more money in order to reduce piracy, at some point the effort doesn't make sense from a profitability standpoint.
I don't think they should receive any percent of revenue. Nobody buys 15% of a song, nobody buys 1% of a movie. You shouldn't have to just to have them shown in your video for what is essentially free advertisement. You're providing a free independent service for these people, they have no right to demand money from you.
Exactly my thoughts.
This was a much better video than the other. It can be argued that you were upset, and rightfully so. Also, you're AngryJoe so it's to be expected. Regardless, both videos showcased your passion and enthusiasm for games, and how these copyright shenanigans as of late are impacting it.
I really like your idea about the revenue percentage if companies end up claiming your video for however long the use in question is. It's much more fair than just outright 100% for them, and none for the content creator. I realize that companies like Nintendo and Sega would just claim 100% of the video in question with this system as well, and if that's the case we just have to simply not do videos on their stuff. It sucks that that's the road we have to take, but in the end it's the developers loss in potential sales.
The Content ID system is terribly flawed, as a good many developers had no idea that this was happening up until now. Hopefully with their backing we'll be able to come up with a better compromise to all of this. Your revenue idea is a great start, hopefully more positive things are on the way. Thanks for being real Joe, as a gamer and smaller content creator it's very much appreciated!
There are a lot of complicated fixes that need to be done, including the "percentage" awareness Joe talks about.
However, the first thing that must happen to stop punishing users and allowing shady corporate theft is to put ad revenue from contested videos in escrow rather than automatically rewarding them to the company making the claim. Currently anyone making a claim, even a false one, gets paid while actual content creaters can have revenue stolen from them with no recourse or defense. That is clearly not a working system.
With the revenue held in escrow, whoever wins the dispute gets the future monetisation rights AND the ad revenue from during the dispute.
It would still be a broken system and an unreliable mechanic for finding copyright violation, but it would make TH-cam usable again for the people whose livelihoods depend on it.
There's never an easy answer to this ID problem, but a stepping stone to it is better than nothing.
Thanks for taking a calm approach this time, you last video was all over the place.
Your trouble with Video Copilot and their response illustrates one of the biggest problems with copyright enforcement right now. There are virtually no repercussions for people who abuse the system.
Can't you just sue them for stealing your hard earned money?? This is kinda like those companies that collect money for charity like for disasters, hurricane victims, If anyone donates money to a cause like that, these companies TAKE about 95% of the money that YOU donated for those poor people, so they are basicaly making profit of other people's misery and pain, just like these youtube companies are taking your money and they take 100%
The proper way they should be doing this is that when it gets flagged, both parties are alerted, and it is up to the "infringed" party to decide whether to pursue the monetization or not. and if they do pursue it, and get disputed and lose, i think there should be a fine. That would discourage false/frivolous claims.
Joe may be the smartest person on the internet. Why is he the only person who has a solution to this crap?
FFS. What type of world is this? we're part of, what is now a 'corrupt community'. It's absolutley shocking to see Joe has been crying, let alone how shocking it is to see the fact he's scared to play specific parts of his videos due to being scared they will get flagged, it's disgusting! of all the money this huge companies make and they're after bare minimum income from ad revenue? just inhumain it really is.
Uh no Angry Joe doesn't cry. His rage evaporates any excessive moisture in his eyes.
I think he's actually sick, so he's angry and he is sniffling =P
BTV I think Paul's point was a little more accurate XD.
i wouldnt judge him if he cried, it IS his income, it DOES put the food on the table.
***** Oh definitely not judging! I mean, i completely understand the situation he's in, and I would see why, I was just pointing out that he still seems sick also, so that could be part of it.
Just had a terrible flu induced dream. TH-cam shattered,and all the shards flew into my stomach and ripped my intestines to shreds. I woke up with a really bad stomach ache just now.
Oh boy, here we go. I really admire all your work. You are a very brave man, opening up for us all. You truly inspire us and I sure hope this can make a difference!
Oh, and btw, Carl Orff, composer of Carmina Burana (O fortuna), died in 1982. So the music is classic indeed, but it's not public domain.
The lyrics for Carmina Burana are in the public domain so hard they pre-date the entire concept.
I dare Angry Joe to put a single frame of a movie trailer and see if they flag it...
12:36 Yes. They should get a percentage based on what percentage of the video is copyrighted. For this channel, they should get 0% since fair use law in the USA states "Fair use that permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders" This includes commentary, search engines, criticism, news reporting, research, product review, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. You fall under the product review category. TH-cam is breaking the law by forcing false copyright claims like this.
In another of Joe's videos I suggested that their could be a class action suit against Google for this.
It is silly that the MCNs did not warn anyone about the new way that the copyright claim system would work.
Probably because it means they aren't doing their job properly. Bunch of leeches, I mean representatives.
Way to throw their partners under the bus.
Thanks for this video Joe.
I dont make content but I do use YT all the time and understand the value of your work. So thanks for explaining what has happened.
Joe, I can't begin to thumbs up this enough. Keep in there. You do good and hard work. You deserve the monetary gains, and not just the props.
I really wish the content dispute system had a "This claim is pure BS" option, since that's like 90% of the claims people are getting now
Dude. You need sleep :( By the way 100% with you. This can easily be fixed using "intelligence". Something with which TH-cam is losing touch lately.
Copyright law isn't intelligent !
I feel so sorry for him. I can see tears in his eyes throughout most of the video.
Great Video Joe. I saw you first time a few days ago when you were raging about this contend id-system (with good cause, btw). But I didn't like this video so much cause it did not contain so much useful information. Now this one does. Great video. You really put a whole bunch of useful informations in your new one!
I like how you're actually pointing out how they could fix it instead of shouting at them.
As someone who's produced their own versions of public domain Christmas tracks, I can safely say that you should never use Public Domain music ever. So I made my own rendition of "Oh Holy Night", and I put it up on youtube for my subscribers to hear.
As soon as the video gets done processing, WMG locked me out of doing any edits on the meta tags and information and TH-cam sent me an email stating WMG claimed my music.
I contested and WMG released my video in early January, well after the christmas season ended. I brought up my protests to WMG and asked that they whitelist my track so my subscribers could use this track in their videos and WMG flat out ignored me.
Soooooo from here on out, I will try to make my own original Christmas-spirit style tracks but never anything that's traditional. So many people have had nightmares with public domain tracks because the music industry has already claimed them under certain performances.
Can I pay you to use your Christmas music?
No, wait...
That is fantastic.. But everyone knows this ID system is nonsensical BS the supersedes common sense. All while Google invests there time in shit like this> news.msn.com/rumors/rumor-google-planning-microchip-brain-implant
I'm surpised every Happy Birthday song sung on TH-cam wasnt claimed by Sony. They own the rights and it seems Sony Music Group is a part of this.
Subbed. Very information-packed and pedagogical. Thanks for taking the time to share your top-quality facts and ideas. Always a nice feeling when you realise that you are not alone and that there are others out there, who are more elaborate and well-spoken and can defend our hobby and/or enterprice.
Joe, you used a word "shit", It's claimed by "shit" at 31:13 and all revenue goes to "shit" :D
In regards to Joe's Inception review he highlights MC for Warner Bros. Warners will never give you ownership. I have done mini documentaries on the Superman and Batman films and you can never get past Warners claims. Warners policy is that you can use their footage and they won't block it but you CAN NOT make money from it even though your review clearly falls under fair use for criticism and for educational purposes. It sucks!.
Jack the Stripper Nobody's stealing anything. Copyright laws are fucking fossils from the past. We're in a different time now. Also, everything Joe has made has fallen under fair use.
Jack the Stripper
Stealing? lol.
Jack the Stripper Fair use allows for short clips of the material being reviewed. Otherwise you could never fairly represent a product to the fullest extent. Maybe you should learn something about intellectual property.
***** No, we're in a time where copyright laws don't understand digital content well enough, especially not interactive media like games. We're in a time where people are making content which falls under fair use, but because of the monetary power of publishers and huge corporations, there's nothing that we can do to stop them from abusing everybody.
***** Stop right there. There is NO stealing in showing someones art and praising it for seconds. It would be stealing if you upload a full movie for free and for everybody to watch and then it would be another crime for people earning money with a 1to1 copied version of your product. A review is neither part of both. Hell you even have television reviews of games and movies and nobody gives a serious fuck about it. Hell here in germany we have a crappy game-review show called "gameone" which does basically the same as Joe but most of the time only make bad reviews of good games resulting negative advertisement. They NEVER had a problem with copyrighting and they use soundtracks of games, ingame cutscenes etc. If you review a game you are allowed to use parts of the product you are reviewing to illustrate your point.
An automated system that creates even more manual work? Congratulations, TH-cam...
Not for them. Less work for TH-cam and more for everyone else. Even if TH-cam works and trys to help Angry Joe and other high view people; they will not be helping those who barely have any views.... which sucks for them.
Thanks for all you do Joe. Merry Christmas.
Thanks Joe, you've helped me a bunch with understanding what the problems are with TH-cam's coyright system. This really needs to be fixed, me and were my friends plan on making a LP series and this will be useful knowledge.
Well... If they claim the video because 17 seconds of their content, you could claim it again because of the 20 minutes that you made yourself.
If they have right have of all the video for seconds,why can´t you do the same?
THIS IS JUST UNFAIR
***** That´s the unfair part... Your work is not different than theirs... But 17 seconds of their property are heavier than 20 minutes of Joe´s. I don´t know if it´s more sad, unfair or enfuryating... But it´s all of the above.
RanguGamer They have money and legal teams, thats the difference
***** the big problem is though people who have no legal rights to claim these things(sound clips/video clips) and yet because of youtube they are allowed to. Many game companys and sound compays have sent out apologies and are working fast and hard to get this sorted out. youtube needs to get there shit together.
***** It is unfair.Why do people always say"This is bad,so just stop using it"?Why don´t we ask for improvement and fairness?
It´s like saying "If gas costs too much for you,stop using your car and just walk from country to country"
I prefer to ask for good things than just running away of anything I don´t like... Specially if it´s good at first and then turn bad
***** So, if I still have to use their service,that makes it fair even when it´s unfair?
If they can take one of Joe's reviews and give all revenue to another company for a 15 second song, shouldn't Joe be able to flag them for making money off of a video using 20+ minutes of his material?
I can't wait to hear about counter-lawsuits with this in the news. Good point!
You can freely use up to 30 second of a copyrighted item, the 17 seconds in that video isn't breaking copyright laws, if you had more than 30 seconds then you can be done for copyright.
No you cannot. Joe is using this content as a means of consumer protection, Parody and review. All three of those are completely covered by "fair use"
Go to a copyright lawyer and you will find that is true. or no site or advert or company would have preview clips other wise you'd need to pay for a lic just to do see a preview clip.
So itunes can have preview clips without needing copyright permission, but they need a license to sell or stream full length music.
That is the main reason why copyright laws allow for a 30 second clip to be free from copyright claims.
Also if a game company put out an advert for a game no one would be legally able to view that advert because you'd need to buy a lic to view such advert.
Fair use is something different, in that if your going to use something you make sure it's less than 30 second in length or has something cut like sound but image is kept but always kept to less than 30 seconds in length. and your not using it to promote piracy etc
The music clip is 17 second long, so they couldn't say it's a copyright claim as you can use up to 30 seconds without needing copyright permission.
Plus he's not trying to promote the artist as such but uses the song to show a point in the game, not about the song.
False. Using a shorter version of a song or video clip is still subject to the same laws as using a longer one. No where in US law is any time limit stated.
However, the way he does use their content definitely does fall under fair use, so his use is totally legal. Using a shorter amount of footage just allows you to avoid the retarded content ID system better. There are other tricks that can help skirt around it, such as pitching, cropping, resizing, and mirroring footage.
Actually, you are confusing copyright laws for earning money off something with using it for a school setting. Many school systems state you can use up to 30 seconds for a school project. However, for purpose of earning money it follows a different system. Vantom91 put that correctly
zagan1 I have an entertainment Lawyer. I am a producer on several upcoming short documentaries and we are currently going through clearance. I assure you, the length of time does not matter in any way when dealing with Copyrighted content. You will pay for it regardless if it is 1 second or the entire piece.
Unless you can argue fair use (Which sadly I cannot) but angryjoe can.
At 5.18 I really thought you was going to say '' 16 times the detail''. But then I realised this was way in the past.
Joe, just FYI, the Ministry of Sound is UK's big recording label, very much like EMI or Sony. They are notoriously litigious, they are actually suing Spotify (a commercial music streaming system) because *some user's playlists too closely match their own compilation albums*. The music is completely and legally being streamed by Spotify, but because Ministry of Sound UK thinks the playlist order is *owned* by them due to the fact that they made an album that presents the songs in that order they are suing to have the playlists forcibly removed from user accounts! I mean how fucked up is that?! They think they *OWN* the rights to how songs are organized and listened too!
WOW
So in order to punish that 0.01% of content that is illegal, they're also punishing the remaining 99.99%. Because that's just how it is, the great majority of the content on YT, even if copyrighted, is still being used under fair use.
This system is absurd. It's creating way more problems than solutions, and it's harming the industry as well, even if indirectly.
Fernando?
the beginning of TH-cam Apocalypse, lets accept it and move on. It's time to look for other sites such as vimeo, twitch, and etc.
Dailymotion.
This is directed straight to the boss of TH-cam: What would you be without us?
Still rich.
Appreciate your video and I agree with your synopsis. Unfortunately and regrettably I fear little will change given the increased copyright nature of our society today. But something does need to be done regarding warentless claims.
This is getting ridiculous, the copyright system is so dumb. Revenue Sharing system would make a lot more sense if companies are going to pursue this, them getting 100% of the revenue for a few seconds of footage is hardly fair.
please vlog every step of your fight. I love these vlogs and i love to get regular updates on the subject. Also, they are a good way to generate some extra revenue whilst your other videos are still down.
I got flagged on best Fee MMOs 2013 by playNC for showing 20secs on their AION trailer in a 11minute video that has already 25k views and get 5k views a month!
Delete, reupload without Aion. I think they will be much happier not having their game being advertised for free.
Zarosu
It's most likely not the developer fucking up here. It's most likely either false automated positives or someone else claiming they own the rights to the content. It's something to do with the way they changed the flagging system. Thousands of valid videos are being hit hard. This includes Valve gameplay footage videos, which are fully supported by Valve in every aspect to include monetization. It's obviously something that Google once again fucked up.
Well said Joe. Good to see you more calm and collected and showing us behind the scenes of whats going on and really how broken this whole system is.
I think youtube feels like they can get away with anything but actually they are facing a collapse, If I was a rich opportunist I would make a website that handled content claims much better to make it easier for people. That way youtube would become a myspace
thing is. you are no rich opportunist
4cmd The point is, that if an average guy thought of this - I'm sure the average rich opportunist would too. SOMEONE will.
***** 4Skyrim 4cmd
you all are forgetting.- youtube was a risk to make. There are already other places you can stream. However, how many of them are noticed at the level of youtube? Do you know that there are other places to show videos from? Twitch is a good alternative - but there are even other websites out there. However, so few people know about them - they are not used as often as youtube. Shoot - TMZ and Entertainment Tonight even has a "youtube" video they show from time to time.
BoydofZINJ what you are missing is that when there is a super company like apple, microsoft, sony, they cant be overcome when they are in their prime. Again I go go back to myspace as an example. Thats why the sites you mentioned are not as big as youtube now, its only when they are weak that they can be topped. So with so much angry businesses and people all against youtube its the perfect timing.
4Skyrim I disagree. Super companies can be toppled - normally when they are at their prime they are also making terrible mistakes. Mistakes that isolate and irate their customer base, because the super companies think they can not lose. Sadly, it is mostly true - but it can happen. When ford was trying to manufacture his first car, there was an organization that tried to stop him - indicating he was selling his vehicles to cheap. He had to fight the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers to get the right to manufacture his car as cheap. There are other examples as well..
angryjoe, as a hint that another big channel did. any videos that are claimed, make them private immeditely until you can remove the claim. if you cant get money no one can.
Thank you for dropping the knowledge about your struggle with using third party content,showing the abuses,and proposing sensible solutions.
***** common sense says % percentage.
This is a much much better video than the previous one and it makes great suggestions.
It is hard not to be pissed off because of bullshit we have to deal with.
Galnospoke Ummm, no. Gamers are not only first. Removing most payments from TH-cam would prevent many people from doing what they love, making content on TH-cam. The fact that they can do that is a good thing, and its why we have people like Joe and TB. So, removing the money, and thus removing them, and many others, would be a net negative.
I dont think that you should compare them to each other. The previous one just shows what is going through his mind and doesnt filter any of his emotions. Its not the "Calm Joe Show".
All Utube users need to watch this video to understand what exactly is happening
Best story I heard so far:
NerdCubed got one of his videos flagged by Valve, claiming his revenue and all but their website says that you can use any of their games if you want to make videos about them and monotize them. So he did what anyone would do - wrote a mail and asked what the hell.
Shortly after they answered and guess what, they didn't know what was going on either.
SOMEBODY simply created an account, claiming to be Valve and started flagging Valve related content and earning other peoples add revenue. Awesome system you got going there Google. G to the G man.
The thing that scares me the most about this, is that you wont just lose revenue from using just a few seconds of some trailer og soundtrack. But there is a youtuber called MiracleOfSound who makes music about games and movies primarily, and even though he might have (most likely) gotten flagged because he makes such content, he has gotten claimed for stealing, from himself.
I really hope things turn out okay for you, man.
I always wanted to be able to make money off of stuff I make, and I was hoping to look into that around this coming year, yet its situations like this which make me look the other way. I'm not like you. I'm not someone whos had experience of revenue and all. I would be someone just starting out. I'm not experienced or knowledgeable on how the whole thing works, and to be honest it actually kinda scares me on how the penalties might work when you make a mistake and you get a claim alert.
I wish you the best of luck with your situation and I hope you can still do your show.
If not, then I guess that's the end of the internet. Because if you can't do your show, a lot of others will also probably do the same.
I do agree with your ideas and feel they would really make everyone happy.
I never made money from content I made, but sharing the revenue makes a lot more sense then one person getting it all, and I wouldn't mind having to deal with that.
I am now 100% sure that TH-cam brings out these new systems half done and completely broken, so that they have something to do with themselves other than count money. Because there is no way a competent company would do this to their user-base. No way. xD
Bro, keep it up! I am rooting for youtubers on this! Fight to the last, is your right!
You look tired joe hope you had a good xmas and new year and keep up the good work bro.
14587 likes, 6289 views!!.......never experienced TH-cam refreshing their video count so slow. TH-cam is on you AJ!!!
I agree, improvements need to be made, if only they gave you a job handling this stuff
okay so youtube says "due to their intellectual property being used you need to pay them" and it's a legit argument. but ffor the whole amount to be given...that's messed up for the small time it's in for
I was wondering about that Skyrim-flag. I'm glad you clarified that. I would have been really disappointed with Bethesda, if it was them.
I hadn't realized how bad it had gotten. I noticed a couple of weeks ago a music video parody (where they don't use any content of the original music video) was blocked in germany for the music they themselves had produced (and therefore GEMA clearly doesn't have any rights to). I thought it was just a glitch, but I bet it's part of this bigger issue.
That system needs to be fixed asap. If they don't fix it, big TH-camrs (together) should take legal action against TH-cam. The old system was bad enough. This is imho borderline criminal. I am kinda starting to hate TH-cam with all the stupid shit they do lately.
adam buckley calls it the youtube skynet. he is waiting for the terminators.
If Google/TH-cam were forced to pay compensation to all the content creators, publishers, music software tool maker people and everyone affected and inconvenienced by this, I bet they'd stop making stupid changes pretty fucking fast. Mostly because they'd be put of business for the amount they'd have to pay, but that's beside the point.
Apparently even game developers are fighting against this system, so a lot of people have your back Joe!
Yeah see that flagging was illegal in and off itself: using material in a comedic or parody fashion, whether it's a video or making fun of an important person is complete fine, where legal stuff is concerned. Flagging something that is legal especially when it's used as a parody is ILLEGAL. TH-cam really needs to get that into their head (sorry if I was too redundant...)
If youtube wants to be ACTUALLY fair, they should only award ad revenue as a percentage of the video that it's used in. So in the case of the Skyrim review, if a song plays for 16 seconds, out of a *20 minute* review you did, then they only deserve 0.013 % of the ad revenue. They do NOT deserve to collect ad revenue on the entire video, which you put together and edited yourself. What TH-cam is doing, is allowing copyright trolls to take others ad revenue, "legally". About 4 of the smaller gaming channels I was subscribed to are now permanently gone. *slow clap* bravo TH-cam, you're totally not hurting yourself with this.
And now one of my favourite channels: CGR (classic game room) has moved off site completely and is using dailymotion for uploads. I have adblock up for everything, only using certain exceptions, for channels I enjoy and like to support. By killing these channels, you don't get anything from me youtube. Adblock for the rest.
G'day