Guys it’s ok to have a crush on a celebrity, but if you think having a crush is reading a reader x (real person that literally doesn’t know you exist) fanfiction that was written without the consent of the person involved....then I would reevaluate what you would consider a crush, bc baby that’s not it. (Also you guys are absolutely right. I should’ve mentioned mcyt. It’s the next evolution of parasocial relationships and it’s taking a turn for the worse.)
9:14 - that's a good point. K-Idols are characters. They are actors in a narrative created by their management for their fans. They exist in a fantasy virtual world - the internet - and we only have access to their image not who they really are as actual people.
Honestly, the part that irks me most about male celebrities like idols or boyband members getting girlfriends is the abhorrent misogyny people show towards the girls just for being in a relationship with their fav
The Kpop industry markets the artists as attainable to the fans and the K-Idols play into it. Kpop is largely based on fantasy and one of the most prevalent fantasies among the fans is being swept off their feet by their fave K-Idol one day. They plant it into your head but you shouldn't buy into it.
It reminds me of the movie Perfect Blue. It also explores how industries like this can negatively impact the idols themselves. And how the concept of fiction starts to blur with reality.
@@the_spit_on_grandmas_flabb5379 That's so true. This hurts both the fans and artists. You should look up the Beyond Ghibli IDOL video. It describes the concept and role of an idol really well.
Makes me think of Elon Musk fans, not a man in the world I hate more than him and his stans treat him like a tech god. He literally just profits off other people's genius engineering and hard work
fuck elon musk tho,, like i see people being like "elon musk is such a cool funny guy!!!" no hes just another jeff bezos i dont care if hes a quirky meme
I grew up lonely so I formed a lot of parasocial relationships in my head and it was incredibly unhealthy for me and incredibly creepy for me to be imagining myself being in platonic or romantic relationships with adults I didn't know. This is honestly a very important and relevant topic
I was in a really dark place starting 2019. I was consciously looking for something to escape into and I looked into Kpop thinking the distraction would help but it actually made things worse. I ended up being addicted to my favourite Kpop group.
I did the exact same thing. I was alone for most of my childhood, so I would create these imaginary friendships with people I didn't know. The most notable one was probably Dan and Phil. And they never turned romantic, but it is honesty pretty sad knowing that I depended on random celebrities because I didn't have anyone in real life
Do you think that one of the lessons that school counselors like to do every now and then should be about how unhealthy parasocial relationships are and maybe teach middle schoolers better coping mechanisms? It's not even something I've thought about before watching this video
okay i didn't realize i did this a lot till a while ago and its mainly men i had these "Friendships" with in my head for like validation or someone to talk to openly and i have no idea how to stop it cause i've been doing it for so long, it's become a rooted part of my life to have these parasocial relationships. i even have amazing, supportive friends i tell basically everything but i think i do this more for the male validation aspect of it which is really disturbing..
Don't want to repeat what has already been said, but several have this issue already. I'm sure that it's probably difficult to speak out about it though without alienating their fans so I see where they're coming from but it's hard to know it exists and is actively going unchallenged as we speak. The only time I would ever think I knew someone is if I talked to them personally tbh. And not just once.
Parasocial relationships are really common now and I'm concerned for the people being the targets of it.. it's unhealthy for both of the parties. The people who are directing it at someone are deluding themselves and these people that are the targets can end up with toxic effects.
This is the way of the future. This was always going to happen eventually but COVID19 is speeding up the process. The Kpop Industry and TH-cam picked up on it a long time ago but everyone's catching up. Things are going to get worse.
@@paperlionkid1787 Yeah... it's been prominent even before COVID19 though. With people freaking out over one direction and other celebrities. It's just becoming more wide with its variety of people that are being used as a target for this.
This. All of this is why Real People Fanfiction, especially x reader Real People Fanfiction, is a problem in my opinion. As a young teen I read said fanfiction, which is a big part of why I say it's a problem. I did this as a child. I'm glad that I grew out of it, it's not healthy.
Yeah I've never touched that side of irl people's fanbases but I have seen things written about fictional characters that should never be applied to a real person. We can't have people who act like this towards real people, it's just unhealthy for both sides of the conversation. Characterizing irl people in that same way is not okay, I really don't care who you are or what your intentions were to begin with.
100% agree. I also find it so incredibly creepy how Wattpad could nominate and crown Real People x Real People graphic slash fiction as the best fanfiction of the year. Several times. It probably fuelled the fire immensely.
Just as I got the notification for this video, I was mentally preparing myself to call someone out for unironically admitting that they would kidnap Tom Felton so they could date him.
this is why i dont fuck around with fandoms for real people. that shit goes south. im just vibing with my medieval dragon societies and my cats in a forest cult books. the only drama here is whether the cat doctor priest made out with a cat from another cult or not
Depression tips: something that helps my mental health is going on a walk and picking up trash. I find walking alone to be boring so this helps the environment and my boredom. It also makes me feel more powerful to stop the environment from dying which helps me feel less hopeless.
I didn’t but I should’ve. Because....it’s almost worse with dream stans than Kpop stans. There’s at least a bit of separation with Kpop to a certain extent. Mcyt constantly talks to and enables their fans and it’s creating something worse than Kpop stans.
@@NicholasBlack yeah the ‘fandom’ is really wild about that,, they go batshit especially with the shipping and a lot of boundaries (especially of content creators that are minors) that get set, are ignored.
@@NicholasBlack I'm in the fandom and I agree completely. I think at a certain point they might need to disable their Twitch Chat because it's getting out of hand. It's so creepy.
I see this very archetype with Elon Musk where his stans would probably take a bullet for him, and he probably only knows them for feeding his own ego. On the other hand antifadoms like how Brie Larson has so many anti SJWs that hate her for some reason (i.e. The Quartering and his fans) when she probably doesn't know they exist. Also can I just say I do find the idol culture to have major problems especially when it comes to an idol that is young or has a young fan base in which the idol is sometimes seen as a kind of sexual fantasy, and is sometimes purposefully made to be sexualized. Where as in Fandoms where the fan base is young it's seen as very crimgy, but excusable because it's usually young kids, it can also become dangerous if there is a toxic fan that develops stalkerish tendencies. It's far less excusable with a young idol however, as there will be a subsets of the Fandom that seem absolutely predatory, the most noticeable western example of this would be with Billie Eillish, and the strange (usually adult males) that were counting down to the point where she was 18, so that she was "legal". 🤢
I’m very against children being debuted in the industry for this reason. Not only the sexualization, but also especially in the Kpop industry they end up overworking literal children and taking their childhoods. It’s insane.
Glad you pointed that out. It happens with all public figures although this one really confuses me because the monarchy are colonialists. I don't know. It's the same with American politicians - they are imperialists... but you could say the same thing about celebs - they are just corporate images.
Same, when my friends in middle school drooled over members of 1D or actors in movies i was like „...you know he is not your future boyfriend, right? Right???” To this day I have no idea why some people get so obsessed with strangers. Wanting to meet your idol in the future on meet and greet? Sure, i get it. But thinking like they will be your best friend or romantic partner? Get out 🤡💀
@@edgaranalhoe7678 honestly I’m kinda guilty of this and looking back it was incredibly weird. I guess I wanted to feed that fantasy of “maybe there’s a minuscule chance we’ll be together” so I didn’t stop thinking about them until I figured out I would probably never even meet them.
@@stromaeskneesocks7964 I thinks it’s not something wrong when it’s not unhealthy or full on delusion. We all were kids, some dreamed about relationships with celebrities, some about anime characters. In my opinion it may be dangerous if said kid/teenager has deep obsession over celebrity/character or never grew out of it. (Like some adult stalkers that believe they have a chance with a celebrity)
i actually remember when i first got into kpop in november my friend introduced me to stray kids and i was like oh wow so neat!!! and naturally i did fall down a bit of a rabbit hole of the parasocial aspect but after distancing myself from constant videos of these guys i began to realize how weird everything i did was and how i do believe that the commodification of these groups (photocards, posters, comebacks, scheduled vlives, controlling company staff, etc.) is linked to capitalism to produce money for the company rather than caring about the idols themselves (see: dating bans, sasaeng problem, shitty living spaces). i dont know, but thats the conclusion i came to
I had the same thing happen to me, but over a longer span of time. I got into Kpop quite young, and for the purpose of coping with mental illness most of the time. So it took a little bit for me to realize that the things I was doing were wrong. And then you add anti-capitalist/anarchist theory and it really sheds a whole new light on how....kinda sad and weird the behavior is.
@amira Hello :) Hope you’re having a good day! I honestly can just say that whenever you notice something negatively affecting you the best way to deal with it is to take a break away from it (or in severe cases, for example addiction to heavy drugs to go through a professional withdrawal at a hospital). I don’t know how and where exactly you consume content from them but you could log off of accounts from social media platforms or temporarily remove photos, etc. from your phone. I think the older you get the easier it is to notice when something is negatively affecting you and it becomes easier to take a step back and to take care of yourself. For example, when I notice that using Instagram has a bad impact on my mental health I delete the app and if I want to I download it again after a few months. In the meantime you will realise how you eventually stop having the urge to check out new content. When you’re taking a break it’s also a good opportunity to learn how to take care of your mental health and to learn ways on how to consume content in a healthy way and to a healthy amount. You might even find a new hobby or interest in the time you previously spent on Stray Kids. One more thing I would like to add: I advise you to just sit down with little distraction and to reflect on yourself why exactly you are spending/ have spent so much time and energy on one thing. I hope this could be a bit of help and don’t hesitate to ask if you don’t understand something - English is not my first language and I can’t proofread this right now.
@amira The first thing you need to understand, accept and register is that the version of Felix you're exposed to through Kpop is a persona and most importantly a character. This character is a marketed manufactured image that was created as per the requirements of the Kpop industry and Felix's character is being sold to you for profit.
@amira Something important to remember is that Kpop( like the general entertainment industry) is manipulative and exploitative. These labels tap into our desires and weakness and then create products to sell to us. BoyBands are created with females in mind. They are presented as objects of DESIRE and affection - thus you have a crush on him, are infatuated with him or could possibly be inlove with him.
Parasocial relationships are definitely at their worst when it comes to online content creators with young audiences. I have first hand experience in which I was the perpetrator of this behavior because 12-year-olds with unrestricted internet access during the mid 2010's were something else. The biggest problem that I've noticed that comes out of parasocial relationships, besides dehumanization of the subject, is the fetishization of gay men. The most prominent examples of this during that era of the internet would be the shipping of both Markiplier and Jacksepticeye, and Dan and Phil. Right now I see that type of shit repeating itself with Sykkuno and Corpse Husband, and probably in minecraft youtube as well idk I don't really pay attention to them. I'm gonna say this even though it should be obvious: *two guys being friends and making content together does not mean they have feelings for each other. They are real people and making NSFW fanfiction and art of them is wrong and really fucking weird, especially when they have asked people to stop doing that.* That's all I really have to add to the topic because it's something that has been bothering me for a long time.
even if they haven't asked for people to stop publicly (because money and the barely any boundaries in fanart = more fanart of u and your friend = more people finding out about you and friend, maybe even growing at the same rate), it's still fucking weird to draw/write fanart of two real people fucking or dating/whatever . like why ??????????????? just why
it's so bizarre real person x reader fanfiction... like, I never read because wasn't my thing, but when you use some fanfiction app they appear... and the sinopses and tags are just too much one day people who write x reader with kpoppers or actors will remember that time of their lives with disgust
also people write fanfiction of Hamilton THEY WERE REAL PEOPLE! people who fucked up a lot of things. I'm not even American but even I know that is bizarre, you reading fanfictions about a fling between your first president and his aide-in-camp
@@lorien_braga what's wrong with Hamilton fanfiction? I mean, they made a musical about them, so why can't other people create a story about them? It's not like they're alive or something. Real historical figures are being used in movies all the time, and videogames. Like doctor who, or assassins creed. I don't see a problem with it honestly. A WashingtonxHamilton fic would be weird tho considering they had like this father son kinda reltionship in the musical and in real life as well.
@@btryx9378you gotta a point but feels weird... some AUs and fanfictions or even headcanons are so, but so different from reality, ppl change their character to fit... but maybe it's just me
I'm a bi ace, so I'm a bit 'closer to the action', but I don't get it, either. My sister used to be really into BTS, and she was a fucking _monster._ She literally drove me out of the house. I couldn't stand living with her, so I moved out even though I didn't really have the money to do so. I made it work for two years before I had to move back in with the family, but by then, she thankfully grew out of it. Mostly. At least she stopped screaming and throwing tantrums and beating up my brother for daring to switch off her wall-vibrating speakers in the middle of the night while she isn't even home. (Yes, that happened. She turned on BTS, blasting the whole house down to the point where even the neighbors heard it, then left for a party and didn't come back until... at least midnight, at which point she dragged my brother out of bed and beat him for touching her speakers. The fact that some of us were in literal _pain_ from the noise and had to go to school/university in the morning did not matter to her at all.) She's taken a level in adulting by now and has a child with her very not imaginary boyfriend, but she still expressed jealousy over me being friends with a dude with a Korean parent and wants to meet him in case her current boyfriend and _father of her child_ displeases her. No, they have not met. I don't trust allos after everything I've seen in fandom.
I do want to add a note- whenever you see someone say "[x] loves me" whether it be a real person or a character, consider the possibility of them being psychotic and experiencing some sort of delusion. While MOST people who experience delusions aren't open about it (like myself) some people ARE open about it and feel like they have to let other people know, like when someone says "[x] loves me please take this post down" they REALLY do think that! Just please try to consider the possibility instead of immediately demonizing them. Of course not everyone who does these things is psychotic or experiences delusions, but just try to think of what they could be experiencing, it's better to be safe then sorry y'know ? Also sorry if this rant seems a bit, strange or not very well put together I quickly typed this all out off the top of my head, but uh yeah!!! also not everyone who has psychosis or delusions can get help, the best you can do is ignore + block if it really bothers you !
Yeah totally. I'm a part of the ficto community and it's sometimes hard for me to see other people experience it differently then me. For me it's very much to do with my grey- aromanticism and grey-sexuality. Where the only "people" I'll sometimes have an attraction to are those that are not real. And I'll occasionally self indulgence with some drawings or stories about them. But I never claim to actually be dating them or that they actually love me back. But there are definitely people who get delusional about it. And think they are actually in a relationship with these characters. (I'm way less accepting of this type of thing with actual people but I digress) and I'm always super worried about them but don't think it's my place to say they are wrong or anything because most of them aren't hurting anyone
personally i don't think that falling in love with the celebrity is a problem. celebrity crushes are a natural thing and its totally fine to have them unless ur being weird/creepy abt it, like writing rpf or defending Every action they make or worse,,
yeah. having crushes on celebrities is normal and sometimes it makes you understand what you like in people, and maybe get a better understanding of your sexuality as a whole, but fanfiction about real people or shipping real people is kinda weird since there's no consent involved/they're a real person so they might feel weird about it. i honestly prefer having crushes on fictional characters and such since i have trust issues lmao
I understand this so hard. Yes i like certain things and certain celebrities but it has never gotten to the point of me going “ I’m going to marry this”. I met a voice actor once during a con and tried my best to calm down but still remained civil. I was just excited to meet him because he was in my favorite show and voiced one of the characters. I’ve never obsessed over things like other girls and have literally told a girl “ he’s never going to meet you and he’s a real person. If anything you’re just another crazy fan that they are going to want to stay away from.” She never talked to me again and honestly I’m glad. I could never understand the illusion that a person could ever start that fantasy. People honestly just scare me at this point.
@@NicholasBlack yea it honestly scared me that she actually thought she was going to go to Korea and actually meet her idol and have him fall in love with her. Worst part is she has a boyfriend and they really love each other. But she honestly thought she would have a celebrity fall in love with her.
this rant about parasocial relationships reminded me of your other rant on shifting...which reminded me that there's a whole other group of ppl out there "shifting" to date their favorite celebrities...as if objectifying them wasn't bad enough already
YES, THANK YOUUU!! I can't stand what certain celebrity stans have become, especially during this pandemic, like it's legit God worship/fantasizing impossible and sometimes very toxic scenarios/playing their advocate for everything etc
I'm sure most of the celebrities don't care about the insults thrown at them by anyone who's not rich or famous, so it's not like they care about the person defending them or the one attacking them.
I have never been part of a stan group that obsesses over real people, so this whole concept is very interesting. I will admit that I have developed many unhealthy attachments to fiction characters, but that's my problem.
Same. I really looked up to Rihanna when I was younger (like between the ages of 7-12) but I never staned (?) her. Never understand how people could be so obsessed with another person much less someone they don't even know.
Really same! I play a lot of interactive fiction games, watch animes and read mangas so I do acknowledge some of my obsession with fictional characters but even though they are not real, these characters have been put so much love to by their authors and have amazing Storylines! I wonder to what extent is that different from people obsessed with real life people. I’m not hurting anyone! Right?
What’s hilarious about this comment is that I’ve gotten both “holy shit you’re only 20??? I thought you were older.” AND “wait I thought you were like 17” and there’s no in between.
I hate it when there's some kind of scandal about a celebrity being rude or bullying others (like irene) and stans go "ohh but they're so nice they would never do that!". Like hello you don't even know them
i first understood the concept of parasocial relationships when i watched ludwig's video "i am not your friend," and as a young kpop stan, i try to work to remain within healthy boundaries and not get to the point of behaving like i know my favorite idols. they bring me comfort and i do know a lot about them, but i only know what they present to the public. i don't know them to the extent that i do my friends, and they don't know me at all. like, they may say we mean a lot to them, but we mean a lot to them as a group of fans, not as individual people. at first i felt a bit attacked by the message of the video, but i realize that's because i was probably beginning to slip into that unhealthy area after spending so much time consuming that content. good now tho 👍
People need to stop acting like they know anything about celebrities and online personalities based on what they CHOOSE to show us. This was prevalent in the Twenty One Pilots fandom for quite some time and it likely still is, but I don't know since I chose not to be active in that trash fire anymore. As far as fandoms go, it's actually quite decent and friendly, but the bad parts are... bad. I agree with what you said about stans having headcanons about real people - they will analyze someone's every move and twist their words to fit their own perception of them. Then they act so disappointed when it turns out that the person isn't a cartoon character and is secretly more than their online persona?? Shocking /s
I got back into the Minecraft community recently, and there's something disturbing within it that I wanted to comment on because I don't think anyone else has? So I was looking for fanfiction centred around the characters that these youtubers play in an SMP (kinda DnD style) and accidentally stumbled upon some really disturbing fanfiction of these 16 year old minecraft youtubers going through like.. real trauma? I don't mean the characters they play, I mean people were writing RPF about these MCYTbers in their real life situations being victims of child abuse, or rape, and it was really fucking disturbing, especially since the main target of these fics were the kids involved in the SMP and not the adults. I think too many people are starting to treat real people as fictional characters. You should NOT be writing a vent angst fic about a real life boy, for gods sake.
Had to rewind the video like 20 times because I zoned out and then zoned back in(?) to Nick talking about his friend...after like the 3 millionth time I realized he didn’t mention them by name and the information I was searching for did not, in fact, exist.
This is so trueee!! Let's not forget that these deluded fans have placed thier precious idols in hospital🙃 the fact that they're okay with physically harming their faves is next level, and it seems like companies don't take it seriously for example you rarely see the stans getting charged (going to prison/sued) 😟
Me a 21 year old recovering from my knee surgery, I salute you. I think parasocial relationships are a coping mechanism, a dangerous one. Its becomes a habit that you get accustomed to, I know because I been there, but it's even worse when you are teenager.
I think it’s pretty normal for someone to develop a crush on a TH-camr or celebrity, especially if the person is young, as long it stays like that and doesn’t cross any boundaries. The TH-cam crushes I’ve had haven’t stuck around for long and I quickly got over them.
One of the most frustrating things for me about the kpop industry, is how companies essentially refuse to change how they market their idols, because they make money from fulfilling fantasies. One recent instance I can think of is on a kpop competition show between boy groups, there was a sports week. They did a whole "I promise to not cheat" etc thing. But one of the things said was "I will not injure myself because my body belongs to [the groups fans]". WHAT ON EARTH Not only that, but I also want to bring up the consumerism that the kpop industry breeds(obviously, it's a capitalistic industry). Albums are one of the most obvious cases. People mass buy albums to get their favs photo cards, or more chances to meet their favs. That's another frustration. I've found that usually when people are delusional like that, it's cause they're filling something in their life. For me, I was lonely. While I was never to that delusional point, I was certainly way more into it previously. There's also a hill to get over when you get into these groups especially for young ppl where you have to realize that kpop is not gonna solve your problems and kinda distance yourself. It's really kind of sad.
I just want to say that using the word "Stan" always sounded wrong to me knowing it comes from a song about a terribly obsessive fan that murders his whole family for the celebrity (here it's Eminem in the song)
it boggles my mind how people will defend their idol to the extent of excusing bigotry, even though they probably don't even know their idols middle name.
that comment about how imagining fake relationships actually impacts your physical brain really got me 💀kinda reminds me of how when zayn left 1d, ppl were literally considering committing s*icide over it. it’s strange how much being a stan actually takes up your mental space, it almost consumes you, and thereby affects your reality too.
This is a tough pill to swallow but I'm honestly so lonely all the time that i find myself fantasising about these "characters" being my friends or my romantic partner like I'll just be getting through the day buying groceries or whatever and I'll imagine im doing it with a friend and I'll assign them a random celeb's face..it's creepy and i feel ashamed admitting it
Woah, I was just looking up parasocial relationships because I came across the term for the first time as someone who's first language isn't English and now it turns out this TH-camr that I have watched more than a couple videos from made a video about it literally a few hours ago?? Coincidence? I THink NoT. Thank you for the informative sass, as always. This video kind of started to make me think about what influence the internet has on us people in general. I definitely think the fact that escapism is so readily and easily accessible has both up and downsides. Positive is that people have a place to escape whatever worries they have in their life, duh. And man, do we have more and more worries these days... I feel like listing them would just be idiotic at this point, so whoever is reading this, feel free to just mentally jot your own worries down when you read this sentence. The negative side to this escapism is that the human brain is indeed very fickle and I have seen and personally experienced how it can make you lose sense of reality. Consuming media is wonderful but it's an industry, part of our capitalist society first and foremost. It has a purpose of making capital. We'd like to forget that as we go on our (little) escapism adventures but realizing what is actually happening behind the scenes and what is happening in your brain while you consume is important, to stay grounded. Please don't get lost, for your own sake... There's a life to be lived and it's not just online that you'll find it. In other news, I am failing at this last mentioned task myself. It is 2 am and I am literally just staying up to procastinate on the time skip to tomorrow that is called sleep. Thanks for reading this trainwreck of a post, remember that you're not alone in the world even if it feels like it and please take care of yourself, okay? I will try to do that too. Love from a philosopical dumbass
I think I was almost lucky that even as a child and young teenager, I didn't have the tendency to stan people. Like, I liked people but I wouldn't go out of my way to defend them, I didn't think they could be my partner, I didn't even think they would be remotely interested in hanging out with me (mostly because I was 12 and they were 21 lmao). I understand that young people are just more prone to delude themselves with that, and I honestly think I was lucky with my general personality that didn't allow that.
the parasocial relationships in the bts fandom are some of the craziest but also some of the most effective. i've been part of the fanbase, so i know how it works. all kpop groups are all marketed in a way that promotes parasocial relationships. it is part of the success of kpop (boybands in general), but with bts it seems to go even deeper. bts didn't start out with a lot of fame and resources in the kpop industry, they were from a small company. they recorded their first album in a garage for example. most of their success can be directly attributed to a dedicated fanbase. bts often thank their fans, they even have whole albums filled with songs about loving the bts army. it is like 90% of their discography the last years. another thing with bts is how they made music about the importance of mental health. a lot of stans claim "bts saved their life". stans feel a personal responsibility to defend and help them. bts is what makes them feel important, like they matter. being a "shooter for bts" was an accepted, even encouraged, concept. this means stans go out of their way to defend bts against stans from other groups, media outlets, everything. army make their own marketing campaigns for bts. when they bring out a new song, you have to stream it for 24 hours. i remember tweeting once from my bts fan twitter that bts don't need you to defend them from random antis on the internet, they're really rich and probably won't even see it. people got so upset with me i had to delete the post. the thing is, i don't even think they created this on purpose. the fan climate just happened and now bts and their marketing team are playing into it by realising fan songs, making thank you army tweets, and creating an app where they respond to fan questions. i don't even think they're lying, when they say they love their fans. bts seem like genuinely kind people. they love their fans but not in the way fans want to believe. you as an individual don't matter to them. if you stop streaming bts and responding to their posts and fighting haters, they won't even notice. it's a hard pill to swallow for a bts stan, even if you realistically know it's true.
I am a bts fan too and I agree with you. BTS and Bighit aren't evil masterminds who made their fans like this, but I think the fans made each other this way. There are many factors that made armys into what they are today. One of them is their Underdog Story. They weren't from a big company and when they started getting big and were able to compete with the Big 3 groups, they became underdogs in the West. But some ARMYs took that as a way to justify harassing other people when they spoke (not even that) badly about BTS. Racist and xenophobic comments are never okay and neither is vile hate, but some fans do wayyyyyyyyyy too much about stuff that will never even affect BTS. Some nobody on the internet could say "bts cant sing" and they'll have a horde of fans on their neck. I never understood why some fans felt the need to do that. It's this whole "BTS x ARMY versus the world" through which they justify throwing away their morals, which is a really weird and unhealthy mindset to have. Best would be if fans just enjoyed BTS music and content and didn't feel any obligation towards them.
You've both correctly pointed out that the Kpop industry fosters extreme/intense parasocial bonds and this is an important factor in BTS' unprecedented success within the Kpop realm. You also made note of the smart marketing - the fact that they're presented as K-Idols and thus appear innocent, pure, sweet, cute, overly polite and approachable. This is coupled with a seemingly higher work ethic, passion and talent.
So we know and it's always been clear that the Kpop industry is involved in the toxicity within Kpop fandoms because of their business model BUT the people never ever place any responsibility on the K-Idols. These K-Idols benefit from and perpetuate this system. These K-Idols are completely aware of what's going on and how unhealthy it is. It's both unhealthy for both fans and K-Idols but the idols profit from it.
BTS is completely aware of what they're doing and how it affects the fans but they continue to do it. You could argue that it's because they love performing but it doesn't change the fact that this affects the fans negatively and this is manipulative and exploitative.
BTS are completely aware of what's happening. Remember Pied Piper from LY:Her? The fans have a cute and light hearted interpretation of the song and the believe BTS is just jokingly roasting them about their affection towards them but as a person who's been negatively affected by BTS, my interpretation of Pied Piper is darker.
wait i have a story about this. i had this friend in junior year (we'll call her jay) who was a stan of this one kpop group. so at lunch one time we were talking about them because i didnt know anything about them and wanted to know what the hype was about and one of my other friends brought up how they were in some controversy bc one of their members said some racist things in his past. so me being a person of color joked around about it because what he said was ignorant and seeing how his stans were treating it was just upsetting, so i was saying things like "omg no he can say that hes baby guys leave my precious kpop smol bean alone" and some other friends joined in. we were all having a good time, but then jay was being so defensive and saying that "stuff like that" (racism) is normalized in their culture, and that he was young when he said it etc (yes she is white how could you tell). and it was so weird bc she was actually getting heated, fighting tooth and nail, for this kpop boy she doesn't even know while the rest of us (her actual friends) were just having fun and joking around. its one thing too see this on twitter but in real time and from someone you know is insane.
I'm in many fandoms, and yes, I have wondered what it would be like to know the people and that, but not once can I remember thinking I was in an actual romantic relationship with any of them or be unhealthily obsessed with someone. Especially someone who doesn't even know I exist, and when you think about it it's really creepy. Like, imagine someone you have *never met* being like "I'm your girlfriend/boyfriend!" It's not healthy.
Me and my friends do the "headcanon" thing with each other lmao.... but it's always things like "I feel like Nate is REALLY bad a chess" or "Molly carried around a Raggedy Anne doll as a kid... change my mind". But its different because we KNOW each other. We know how we all act and behave, so we can make these lighthearted assumptions. But when its celebrities that you dont know it feels kind of... invasive? Especially when people assume things like sexuality and relationships with other celebrities
the thing with Loona is that they really made the idols anime characters.. Like they're all characters living in the loonaverse and there's a big story going on with parallel universes and shit, and the fans are encouraged to try to piece together the mvs and speculate about what is going on in the loonaverse... So someone saying one of them has beef with the others is really like talking about anime characters, the members of the group are literally not supposed to be who they play in the mvs. And I think that might actually be better, because then there's a clear cut between the idols which are characters of a story, and the people playing them
unfortunately i feel like orbits really don't know how to make the difference between the loonaverse and real life, the biggest example of this being the big "ships" in the fandom, especially predebut/debut era, which were basically the girls paired up in debut order bc they tended to feature in each other's mvs. the biggest one was chuuves bc of the romantic coded mv, and i feel like it got really bad, to the point where any interaction between jiwoo and sooyoung was seen as "omg chuuves canon!!!" even outside of just the loonaverse. i feel like maybe shipping the loonaverse characters could be okay, but since they're so tied to the real idols i think it's a bit of a slippery slope into shipping the idols themselves which can get even worse because of the characters they play, if that makes sense. this also happens with actors of characters who are more detached from them (like jared and jensen from supernatural or chris evans and sebastian stan from captain america), so i feel like the more tied they are to their characters, the more likely they are to be shipped or viewed as characters themselves as people. i hope that made sense lol
I disagree. Fans blurr the lines in these cases as well. It's like Inception because K-Idols are already characters/actors. People don't realise it but they are actors playing out a narrative created by their labels/management and the fans/consumers buy into the created fantasy. So there are 2 levels of acting here that are blurred here: there's the fictional world created by the industry and the fictional world created by their team for the MVs.
I'm actually an MCYT stan on Twitter and have first-hand experience with the culture there, and lemme tell you, our fandom is so fucking screwed. More specifically the Dream SMP part of mcyt. Most subtwts are just chilling just chilling. But the Dream SMP fandom going to burn down in a few months. The amount of people who think that they can control content creators over here is so scary. I'm a fan of someone who got in trouble earlier this year for jokes that were from like 5 years ago that were brought up by some random white person, and I've gotten death threats and some of my mutuals have been called racist slurs because of it. The amount of entitlement from them is scary. For the most part, its the content creators like the Dream Team and the Bench Trio who have the worst fans. They're some of the nicest creators, but they don't always enforce their rules so they get their boundaries broken by stans all the time. Its frustrating because if you try to criticize their behavior they'll just go "you just called me a [insert slur here]" or something like in a means to ignore valid criticism. I hate stantwt, but I've been here since before the Dream SMP was even a thing, I'm too attached to leave
I think social media contributes to this, cause we're not only seeing the art people do, we're seeing pieces of everyday life. I caught myself like last week seeing an Instagram story of a singer I love and being like "Oh, he's back home, he posted a pic of his cats". This kind of thing can contribute to lonely or very young people feeling they're intimate with famous people.
Holy shit, the shit that goes down in the mcyt fandom, ESPECIALLY with TommyInnit, people were genuinely threatening this girl that he publicly had a crush on because they were jealous, it’s fucking terrifying
I'm glad it showed up on my youtube feed because parasocial relationships are something I've done quite a lot of research on and got to work with people who 'went through that'. And in my opinion, parasocial relationship itself isn't that bad - people build community with other fans and that is something really cool to see. But those fans who mistake admiration and romantic love are the most dangerous. As you said, the brain can fool them into believing they are really in that relationship and from that, it's basically a point of no return because those fans will get mad at the celebrity just living their life and being in relationships. (trigger warning ahead) I interviewed a girl who was admitted to a psychiatric ward after several attempts on her life because her fave celeb got married and has children. She is going through something like rehab. Another girl I met started developing delusional disorder because she truly believed she is married to a celebrity. There are thousands of people like that and twitter is only the catalyst to their actions. If they find a group of like-minded people they start feeding each other with more and more delusions. That's why (imo) kpop industry is really terrible, they exploit fans delusions to the fullest (one company used to sell necklaces with idols' blood and hair in it). No dating policies and selling the illusion of 'always available perfect boyfriend/girlfriend' is really harming both idols and the fans. And mind you, idols are victims as well, they dream about fame and success and basically start working their asses off for their companies. edit: about kpop companies exploiting their idols, there are two more examples I'd like to highlight because there are more recent, one is an official game from SM entertainment where you can 'talk' to your favorite idols and they are planning on developing it even further using AI so you could facetime and the experience was even more real, and the second one is like a girl group with avatars so they basically highlight the perfect personas of the members. From the research I've done I can tell that from all kpop labels, SM is definitely the worst when it comes to exploiting parasocial relationships.
i used to be like this. never as severe as what you explained (thinking were actually in a relationship, getting angry about idols with girls etc), but i did fantasize about relationships with kpop idols. Part of me thinks it had something to do with the severe comphet i was experiencing. It was much easier to fantasize about unattainable men and use it as an excuse to believe i was attracted to men than to confront the fact that i could never fantasize that way about a man actually in my life.
in a way it helped me affirm to myself that i wasnt a lesbian (which i am) bc i was still in denial. i do look back on it and think its weird that i used real ppl to do that but i was never super vocal about it so i guess thats something?
@@countravioli69 this is such a mood!!! the only men i could imagine myself with were celebrities (esp kpop idols) and fictional characters, so i clung onto that just to be able to say "look im bi im not a lesbian i will conform to society's expectations of a woman to settle down with a man!!!", so i tried to express that attraction as much as i could to avoid the fact that i was really a lesbian and never attracted to men. i find this aspect of comphet really interesting tbh, as sad/frustrating (?) as it is
@@BigGayIncorporated compulsory heterosexuality! the societal ideal that women need to be with men and men need to be with women. this is often internalised to the point that a gay man or a lesbian will think of themselves as bi or even straight because "that's what i'm supposed to do", most often unconsciously. i hope i explained that okay! if you need more info i suggest googling the lesbian masterdoc, i think it has good explanations and examples of comphet even if it doesn't apply to you.
Thanks for posting this video because I've never thought of it like that before mostly because I've never gone out of my way to even see those kinds of things seeing as how I've only been on social media to hang out with friends and to watch random videos
I used to be super into RPF (never reader x stuff tho), first for some TH-camrs and then for K-Pop, and I can honestly say I hate that I ever contributed to this commodification of real people. It took me a really long time to learn how and why it was wrong, and I sometimes still wanna reread the fanfics I read back then because there are some that were actually really beautiful and they've stuck with me, but I could never go back to them because of this now. I guess I still do say "wife me" and stuff when I see certain idols but I never meant it, now I'm wondering if that kinda vocabulary is also contributing to this. But yeah, great video, and this definitely needed to be talked about! Also, idk much about MCYT but I saw that some people were treating Dream (?) like their therapist and talking to him about their problems and I feel like that's a really bad thing to do for both sides: you can't be guaranteed trust and that the person won't use that against you and they can also give you really bad advice since they're not in any way qualified, and they're having all this trauma dumped on them from people they may feel obligated to help so they don't lose the parasocial relationship (if they didn't listen to their problems they might be labelled as "insensitive" or something by the community and lose people's support). So please don't trauma dump on people who aren't qualified and didn't ask for any of this
this was such and eye-opener, i've been thru some shit and that became my coping mechanism, i serached love in these ppl bcz my parents never showed me some and also my maladaptive-daydreaming affects this so much too. I'm trying to get out of this cuz i'm just now realizing how fucked up this is, thank you so much.
As sad as it is for me to admit I read fanfics (even ones that ship real people) and appreciate a fair few celebrities, I can at least say I never bothered with self-insert stories or desired to be close with celeb-crushes. I’m conflicted on the act of writing stories of real people without their consent, but I’d say the most crucial part is to understand the stories are fiction (all are technically alternate universes as far as we-the public- know) and should not be pushed onto the actual people...just keep that shit away from them ffs. It gets even weirder when I interact with some fans who assume someone’s sexuality because they want to believe the person will be *only* interested in their particular gender/type 😐 I’m not even talking about the people who freak out on other people who have the possibility of sharing some relationship with their crush (that shit gets real ugly), wouldn’t surprise me if there’s some overlap with that though.
THIS. i was a kpop "stan" for a couple years where my mental health was really bad and i just slipped down a rabbit hole. thankfully i never got as bad as some of the people you mentioned but the fantasizing of even just being in a platonic relationship with these people was not good for my mental health. i pulled myself out of it around a year ago and limited my time on twitter which helped me a lot. rn i'm in the mcyt fandom (where it's sadly parasocial as fuck on twitter ) but i've learned my lesson and only interact with the memes and fanart from the sane people and i'm out. i refuse to call myself a stan because the dedication and emotional attachment that comes with the word (from what i've experienced with kpop and continue to see) is very uncomfortable. it's so easy to get caught up in the "sh00ter for a celebrity" mindset (don't even get me started on some of these dream stans) and it's just overall fucking awful.
Kpop stans honestly scare me even though im into kpop. I love watching behind the scenes content, seeing people interacting and doing chaotic stuff makes me happy after a long day but I'm perfectly aware that it's very likely just a front/ ''acting''. Like yes I enjoy stray kid's music and content and I find it extremely endearing, but even if I had the oppurtunity to meet them (asides from like, a concert) I wouldnt act up on it. They're not my friends! I dont know them and I dont really wanna be their friends either, its weird
Man I lived a short term parasocial moment with some kpop group (mind you I was 19) and I suppose it wasn’t THAT bad, but bad enough to mess up with my emotions (usually felt super sad), but thank god I realized how weird and unhealthy it was getting and I could get over it. I’d say it’s ridiculous but it’s so easy to fall into that trap, kinda like a cult, specially if you’re young and impressionable. Plus, they way these kpop companies deliberately push all these fantasies is just sickening to me.
with the fanfiction part I’m very “write whatever you want as long as you tag it right”, but the real person x reader fics have always given me a feeling of dread haha. It’s so sad people feel they have to seek fulfillment in celebrities they don’t know like that. And the parasocial thing goes both ways: with love and hate. Anyone who has any *extremely* strong opinion on a celebrity where they spend a lot of time and energy on talking about them, on the internet or irl? They’re just a person, it’s not your job to defend or police them, y’know?
My golden rule of fandoms: If they can have an employer look up their names and, as a result, get FIRED by whatever you post then things like irl shipping and fandom shipping is not appropriate.
I also think its worth mentioning that a lot of the people doing this are really young, like preteens and teens, and since no one thinks its much of an issue with them, they'll grow up thinking its ok, and it really really isn't. That also leads into young people, minors, thinking they have a chance with celebrities, and it can put celebrities in an awkward position, because they have to stop their fans from doing that but if they're not careful it can genuinely ruin their careers, and if they don't stop them then its some really weird underage shit going around online and its not safe.
I feel like this should be taught in schools. Like, you learn a bit about internet safety in school nowadays, but people are unprepared for celebrity internet culture.
I know I sound crazy but I understand the people that do this, because I do it to an extent. I have always used movies and music to cope and have clung to the idea of celebrities. The character they put to the world while they hoard the wealth. I cling to the idea that they are perfect people and i obsess about being like them even though I don't know what they are like! I don't know why I do this and I know it is unhealthy. I just want to be perfect.
I just simp for fictional characters in my own little world. Like i’m in deep but I don't push it on anyone or anything. I just quietly consume content and imagine. I wish more people would do that
What you said about the idols in kpop and that they are "characters" this made me remember star system in the golden era of cinema. Like was a big never stop acting for the actors and actresses. Their life needed to be accepted by the company and stuff like that. (I dont know if I am 100% right but was something like that)
Around the 7-8 minute mark where he talks about how it's hard to tell what you imagined and what's real, this is totally true. I'm in my own head a lot, and have been fir most of my life, and there have been times when all I did was daydream (whether I was sick, in a bad mental place, or just had nothing to do) and it got hard to tell what I imagined or dreamt and what was actually real. To the point where I have to check sometimes because I occasionally confuse my more realistic dreams with reality. Anyway, idk, maybe I'm crazy but I've definitely experienced this. Tldr: Nick ain't kidding when he says it's hard to tell if something is real or imagined, it's happened to me before multiple times.
Like most people I also grew up around fandoms, but it was always fictional ones (which can also become very problematic sometimes ngl) so whenever I stumble into a real life fandom it startles me a little and I'm like "wtf is going on here??"
God I remember when the story time animation community started growing and I’d fantasize about like,, emailing Jaiden Animations and us becoming best friends and shit :/// This hurt to type omfg
i feel like a lot of this is a big thing in mcyt due to the fact that c! characters and the ccs are two different people technically. however, a lot of the ccs personality goes into the characters, and the line is blurred a lot. plus for people who do facecam streams/have a face reveal (or even some that dont) there’s always rly gross edits n people being like “oh this ones for the *insert person* simps” or whatever. i even saw a clip where quackity was doing some event where fans could join a call or smth and talk to him and this kid joined and the first thing they said was something about how he’s their favorite cc and that they lowkey have a crush on him even tho they’re 16, which must be SO WEIRD especially since he’s an adult. don’t get me wrong i love dsmp and mcyt, the lore and plot lines for dsmp are super cool and all the ccs are amazing writers and actors, but i feel like lots of fans take it too far. most of the fans i interact w are very respectful of the ccs boundaries and everything and they’re perfectly nice and normal, but a lot of what i see reposted from twitter is insane and donos on twitch tend to get out of hand. idk how much of this made sense but yeah lol
at first i thought that i never really did this, but i remembered a couple years ago whenever i was at my lowest point, i developed a special interest of twenty one pilots. when it got really bad, i used to come up with these scenarios in my head that i was talking to them about my problems and they were basically my personal therapists. i viewed tyler and josh as parental figures, all because i was scared to talk to my mom. i still am, but now i just rant to friends and not the image of celebrities that i have in my head.
I didn't know you were 20- I thought you'd still be 19 lmao- Anyways, I agree with the whole video, near the end where you brought up people giving REAL people headcanon, wooboyy I will never understand how you can view REAL people as characters?? Then proceed to make headcanons for them? They're not like some character you made, these are, keep in mind, r e a l people This will always stump me
it‘s especially bad when you‘re young and in these circles of people encouraging this type of behaviour. i was an exo stan at 14 y/o and the amount of ADULTS that would make headcanons about real people (even sexual) is baffling.
when i was younger like 11-14 i used to write x reader friendship fics between me and mostly characters and some irl people, it helped a little in the moment but it only ended up hurting more in the end when I convinced myself these friendships I made up were almost real when they weren’t. this doesn’t add anything to the video or anything just wanted to get it off my chest i guess
Guys it’s ok to have a crush on a celebrity, but if you think having a crush is reading a reader x (real person that literally doesn’t know you exist) fanfiction that was written without the consent of the person involved....then I would reevaluate what you would consider a crush, bc baby that’s not it.
(Also you guys are absolutely right. I should’ve mentioned mcyt. It’s the next evolution of parasocial relationships and it’s taking a turn for the worse.)
Do I want to know who or what "MCYT" is?
@@sinclairethomas8197 god I envy you. I wish I didn’t know.
mcyt:
my
christian
yeti
pants
your welcome :)
9:14 - that's a good point. K-Idols are characters. They are actors in a narrative created by their management for their fans. They exist in a fantasy virtual world - the internet - and we only have access to their image not who they really are as actual people.
@@sinclairethomas8197 I also have no idea and I don't know if I want to. Help
Honestly, the part that irks me most about male celebrities like idols or boyband members getting girlfriends is the abhorrent misogyny people show towards the girls just for being in a relationship with their fav
GOD IT’S SO ANNOYING. Women always end up the victims in these situations either way and I hate it so much
The Kpop industry markets the artists as attainable to the fans and the K-Idols play into it. Kpop is largely based on fantasy and one of the most prevalent fantasies among the fans is being swept off their feet by their fave K-Idol one day. They plant it into your head but you shouldn't buy into it.
I do believe that there's an element of misogyny in all of this and it's unfortunate.
It reminds me of the movie Perfect Blue. It also explores how industries like this can negatively impact the idols themselves. And how the concept of fiction starts to blur with reality.
@@the_spit_on_grandmas_flabb5379 That's so true. This hurts both the fans and artists. You should look up the Beyond Ghibli IDOL video. It describes the concept and role of an idol really well.
Makes me think of Elon Musk fans, not a man in the world I hate more than him and his stans treat him like a tech god. He literally just profits off other people's genius engineering and hard work
He is just a weeb hi fellow kids jeff bezos and dudes still be like „haha Elon cool rich guy, funny meme haha he said catgirl lol”
You know a guy is up in his head when he names his child after a keyboard smash.
@@gamehero6816 Tbf (i might be wrong) but I saw on an interview (when asked how to pronounce it) that it wasn't his idea. But ye
I hate the guy
fuck elon musk tho,, like i see people being like "elon musk is such a cool funny guy!!!" no hes just another jeff bezos i dont care if hes a quirky meme
Fucking YES.
I grew up lonely so I formed a lot of parasocial relationships in my head and it was incredibly unhealthy for me and incredibly creepy for me to be imagining myself being in platonic or romantic relationships with adults I didn't know. This is honestly a very important and relevant topic
I was in a really dark place starting 2019. I was consciously looking for something to escape into and I looked into Kpop thinking the distraction would help but it actually made things worse. I ended up being addicted to my favourite Kpop group.
I did the exact same thing. I was alone for most of my childhood, so I would create these imaginary friendships with people I didn't know. The most notable one was probably Dan and Phil. And they never turned romantic, but it is honesty pretty sad knowing that I depended on random celebrities because I didn't have anyone in real life
Do you think that one of the lessons that school counselors like to do every now and then should be about how unhealthy parasocial relationships are and maybe teach middle schoolers better coping mechanisms? It's not even something I've thought about before watching this video
@@shierpa6566 Yes. They should do that because the situation is getting out of hand.
okay i didn't realize i did this a lot till a while ago and its mainly men i had these "Friendships" with in my head for like validation or someone to talk to openly and i have no idea how to stop it cause i've been doing it for so long, it's become a rooted part of my life to have these parasocial relationships. i even have amazing, supportive friends i tell basically everything but i think i do this more for the male validation aspect of it which is really disturbing..
I feel like parasocial relationship will become a big problems with streamers
It’s getting much worse with streamers :/
Don't want to repeat what has already been said, but several have this issue already. I'm sure that it's probably difficult to speak out about it though without alienating their fans so I see where they're coming from but it's hard to know it exists and is actively going unchallenged as we speak. The only time I would ever think I knew someone is if I talked to them personally tbh. And not just once.
Parasocial relationships are really common now and I'm concerned for the people being the targets of it.. it's unhealthy for both of the parties. The people who are directing it at someone are deluding themselves and these people that are the targets can end up with toxic effects.
Well said!!! Also. Cool Basil pfp 😳😳😳
@@Salthat thank you for noticing 🤩
This is the way of the future. This was always going to happen eventually but COVID19 is speeding up the process. The Kpop Industry and TH-cam picked up on it a long time ago but everyone's catching up. Things are going to get worse.
@@paperlionkid1787 Yeah... it's been prominent even before COVID19 though. With people freaking out over one direction and other celebrities. It's just becoming more wide with its variety of people that are being used as a target for this.
@@bananasare_revolting It's too lucrative for these industries to pass up.
This. All of this is why Real People Fanfiction, especially x reader Real People Fanfiction, is a problem in my opinion. As a young teen I read said fanfiction, which is a big part of why I say it's a problem. I did this as a child. I'm glad that I grew out of it, it's not healthy.
me too. I dealt with this big time as a result of these,
Yeah I've never touched that side of irl people's fanbases but I have seen things written about fictional characters that should never be applied to a real person. We can't have people who act like this towards real people, it's just unhealthy for both sides of the conversation. Characterizing irl people in that same way is not okay, I really don't care who you are or what your intentions were to begin with.
100% agree. I also find it so incredibly creepy how Wattpad could nominate and crown Real People x Real People graphic slash fiction as the best fanfiction of the year. Several times. It probably fuelled the fire immensely.
@@Lewisiaisoutofcontext the fact that an entire movie was made based off of a fucking harry styles x reader fanfiction
@@countravioli69 Wait what, which movie?
I want an entire video about how he's being overworked. It's healthy to vent, and it sounds like he has some TEA ☕💕
TRUUEEEEE
Same, same, same.~
Anti-capitalism rant let’s gooooo (please Nick I’m begging you, I’m sick of seeing bootlickers everywhere)
Adventures in retail: but it’s just me calling my boss a human shit stain
@@NicholasBlack YES THAT WOULD BE AMAZING
Just as I got the notification for this video, I was mentally preparing myself to call someone out for unironically admitting that they would kidnap Tom Felton so they could date him.
.....the fact that I’ve seen worse is mildly concerning (read: extremely concerning)
@@NicholasBlack Indeed. My only hope in life is that one day we figure out as a society that celebrities are real people/srs
the key word is unironically, like WTF
There’s almost no Internet Stan group that genuinely gives me more anxiety then the Minecraft TH-cam parasocials
Yep it’s scary
fair tbh. i come from the tumblr side of the mcyt community and twitter is... not a good look.
omg ikr like they talk about these youtubers like they know them its wild
@@miirorange yeah coming from the Tumblr and then TikTok side of the fanbase, I don’t get Twitter. it’s just a hell scape at this point
Exactly.
Honestly the way people fantasise about parasocial relationships reminds me of your video on “shifting”, I bet they’re linked
Absolutely, it’s escapism to cope but it’s so unhealthy
this is why i dont fuck around with fandoms for real people. that shit goes south. im just vibing with my medieval dragon societies and my cats in a forest cult books. the only drama here is whether the cat doctor priest made out with a cat from another cult or not
not calling warrior cats a bunch of forest cults cats lmao
@@sephirothswife5004 ok but theyre deadass a cult though like
hold on someone made a really good video on it lmfaooooo
@@emilymonahan5232 oh 100% they are lol. oooo I gotta see
@@sephirothswife5004 th-cam.com/video/aRZEZxGluNU/w-d-xo.html
here it is, its really well made
I never thought of warrior cats being a cult but now that you’ve said it, it all makes perfect sense 😭
Depression tips: something that helps my mental health is going on a walk and picking up trash. I find walking alone to be boring so this helps the environment and my boredom. It also makes me feel more powerful to stop the environment from dying which helps me feel less hopeless.
you are a very nice person thank you
as a dream fan, i can feel it coming that he’s going mention the stans
same
Yep
I didn’t but I should’ve. Because....it’s almost worse with dream stans than Kpop stans. There’s at least a bit of separation with Kpop to a certain extent. Mcyt constantly talks to and enables their fans and it’s creating something worse than Kpop stans.
@@NicholasBlack yeah the ‘fandom’ is really wild about that,, they go batshit especially with the shipping and a lot of boundaries (especially of content creators that are minors) that get set, are ignored.
@@NicholasBlack I'm in the fandom and I agree completely. I think at a certain point they might need to disable their Twitch Chat because it's getting out of hand. It's so creepy.
I see this very archetype with Elon Musk where his stans would probably take a bullet for him, and he probably only knows them for feeding his own ego. On the other hand antifadoms like how Brie Larson has so many anti SJWs that hate her for some reason (i.e. The Quartering and his fans) when she probably doesn't know they exist. Also can I just say I do find the idol culture to have major problems especially when it comes to an idol that is young or has a young fan base in which the idol is sometimes seen as a kind of sexual fantasy, and is sometimes purposefully made to be sexualized. Where as in Fandoms where the fan base is young it's seen as very crimgy, but excusable because it's usually young kids, it can also become dangerous if there is a toxic fan that develops stalkerish tendencies. It's far less excusable with a young idol however, as there will be a subsets of the Fandom that seem absolutely predatory, the most noticeable western example of this would be with Billie Eillish, and the strange (usually adult males) that were counting down to the point where she was 18, so that she was "legal". 🤢
I’m very against children being debuted in the industry for this reason. Not only the sexualization, but also especially in the Kpop industry they end up overworking literal children and taking their childhoods. It’s insane.
It’s like when English people will defend the monarchy like the queen comes to their house daily to have tea and crumpets with them...
Glad you pointed that out. It happens with all public figures although this one really confuses me because the monarchy are colonialists. I don't know. It's the same with American politicians - they are imperialists... but you could say the same thing about celebs - they are just corporate images.
plsss im so happy my english teacher hated monarchies and educated us on colonialism tbh
I've never personally understood parasocial relationships, but this should be interesting
Same, when my friends in middle school drooled over members of 1D or actors in movies i was like „...you know he is not your future boyfriend, right? Right???”
To this day I have no idea why some people get so obsessed with strangers. Wanting to meet your idol in the future on meet and greet? Sure, i get it. But thinking like they will be your best friend or romantic partner? Get out 🤡💀
I suggest checking out StrucciMovies Fake Friends. She explains it incredibly well.
@@edgaranalhoe7678 honestly I’m kinda guilty of this and looking back it was incredibly weird. I guess I wanted to feed that fantasy of “maybe there’s a minuscule chance we’ll be together” so I didn’t stop thinking about them until I figured out I would probably never even meet them.
@@stromaeskneesocks7964 I thinks it’s not something wrong when it’s not unhealthy or full on delusion. We all were kids, some dreamed about relationships with celebrities, some about anime characters. In my opinion it may be dangerous if said kid/teenager has deep obsession over celebrity/character or never grew out of it. (Like some adult stalkers that believe they have a chance with a celebrity)
As a demisexual, I would have no idea man, hormones are weird like that
i actually remember when i first got into kpop in november my friend introduced me to stray kids and i was like oh wow so neat!!! and naturally i did fall down a bit of a rabbit hole of the parasocial aspect but after distancing myself from constant videos of these guys i began to realize how weird everything i did was and how i do believe that the commodification of these groups (photocards, posters, comebacks, scheduled vlives, controlling company staff, etc.) is linked to capitalism to produce money for the company rather than caring about the idols themselves (see: dating bans, sasaeng problem, shitty living spaces). i dont know, but thats the conclusion i came to
I had the same thing happen to me, but over a longer span of time. I got into Kpop quite young, and for the purpose of coping with mental illness most of the time. So it took a little bit for me to realize that the things I was doing were wrong. And then you add anti-capitalist/anarchist theory and it really sheds a whole new light on how....kinda sad and weird the behavior is.
@amira Hello :) Hope you’re having a good day! I honestly can just say that whenever you notice something negatively affecting you the best way to deal with it is to take a break away from it (or in severe cases, for example addiction to heavy drugs to go through a professional withdrawal at a hospital). I don’t know how and where exactly you consume content from them but you could log off of accounts from social media platforms or temporarily remove photos, etc. from your phone.
I think the older you get the easier it is to notice when something is negatively affecting you and it becomes easier to take a step back and to take care of yourself. For example, when I notice that using Instagram has a bad impact on my mental health I delete the app and if I want to I download it again after a few months. In the meantime you will realise how you eventually stop having the urge to check out new content. When you’re taking a break it’s also a good opportunity to learn how to take care of your mental health and to learn ways on how to consume content in a healthy way and to a healthy amount. You might even find a new hobby or interest in the time you previously spent on Stray Kids.
One more thing I would like to add: I advise you to just sit down with little distraction and to reflect on yourself why exactly you are spending/ have spent so much time and energy on one thing.
I hope this could be a bit of help and don’t hesitate to ask if you don’t understand something - English is not my first language and I can’t proofread this right now.
@amira Hello. I'm 2 months late and you may not see this but here's my advice.
@amira The first thing you need to understand, accept and register is that the version of Felix you're exposed to through Kpop is a persona and most importantly a character. This character is a marketed manufactured image that was created as per the requirements of the Kpop industry and Felix's character is being sold to you for profit.
@amira Something important to remember is that Kpop( like the general entertainment industry) is manipulative and exploitative. These labels tap into our desires and weakness and then create products to sell to us. BoyBands are created with females in mind. They are presented as objects of DESIRE and affection - thus you have a crush on him, are infatuated with him or could possibly be inlove with him.
I accidentally read that as "parasitic relationship"
i would argue that parasocial & parasitic relationships are the same thing /joking
@@l.u.n.e this but /genuine
Parasocial relationships are definitely at their worst when it comes to online content creators with young audiences. I have first hand experience in which I was the perpetrator of this behavior because 12-year-olds with unrestricted internet access during the mid 2010's were something else. The biggest problem that I've noticed that comes out of parasocial relationships, besides dehumanization of the subject, is the fetishization of gay men.
The most prominent examples of this during that era of the internet would be the shipping of both Markiplier and Jacksepticeye, and Dan and Phil. Right now I see that type of shit repeating itself with Sykkuno and Corpse Husband, and probably in minecraft youtube as well idk I don't really pay attention to them. I'm gonna say this even though it should be obvious: *two guys being friends and making content together does not mean they have feelings for each other. They are real people and making NSFW fanfiction and art of them is wrong and really fucking weird, especially when they have asked people to stop doing that.*
That's all I really have to add to the topic because it's something that has been bothering me for a long time.
You're completely right and it happens so often and it's WEIRD
As a mcyt fan, I’m extremely scared for when one of the people who are constantly getting shipped together starts dating someone else
even if they haven't asked for people to stop publicly (because money and the barely any boundaries in fanart = more fanart of u and your friend = more people finding out about you and friend, maybe even growing at the same rate), it's still fucking weird to draw/write fanart of two real people fucking or dating/whatever . like why ??????????????? just why
Rant? 15 minutes? Y E S
it's so bizarre real person x reader fanfiction... like, I never read because wasn't my thing, but when you use some fanfiction app they appear... and the sinopses and tags are just too much
one day people who write x reader with kpoppers or actors will remember that time of their lives with disgust
also people write fanfiction of Hamilton
THEY WERE REAL PEOPLE! people who fucked up a lot of things. I'm not even American but even I know that is bizarre, you reading fanfictions about a fling between your first president and his aide-in-camp
I really like your profile picture.
@@paperlionkid1787 thank you! I made on picrew picrew.me/image_maker/332600
@@lorien_braga what's wrong with Hamilton fanfiction? I mean, they made a musical about them, so why can't other people create a story about them? It's not like they're alive or something. Real historical figures are being used in movies all the time, and videogames. Like doctor who, or assassins creed. I don't see a problem with it honestly. A WashingtonxHamilton fic would be weird tho considering they had like this father son kinda reltionship in the musical and in real life as well.
@@btryx9378you gotta a point
but feels weird... some AUs and fanfictions or even headcanons are so, but so different from reality, ppl change their character to fit... but maybe it's just me
Me, 23 yo also with f*cked up knees: hi bestie ✨😔
As an AroAce who is pretty apathetic towards celebrities this concept totally perplexes me, interesting rant, made me question humanity 10/10
100% relatable
So confusing as aroace to see people commenting on celebs' relationships or thinking they're part of it.
I'm a bi ace, so I'm a bit 'closer to the action', but I don't get it, either. My sister used to be really into BTS, and she was a fucking _monster._ She literally drove me out of the house. I couldn't stand living with her, so I moved out even though I didn't really have the money to do so. I made it work for two years before I had to move back in with the family, but by then, she thankfully grew out of it. Mostly. At least she stopped screaming and throwing tantrums and beating up my brother for daring to switch off her wall-vibrating speakers in the middle of the night while she isn't even home. (Yes, that happened. She turned on BTS, blasting the whole house down to the point where even the neighbors heard it, then left for a party and didn't come back until... at least midnight, at which point she dragged my brother out of bed and beat him for touching her speakers. The fact that some of us were in literal _pain_ from the noise and had to go to school/university in the morning did not matter to her at all.) She's taken a level in adulting by now and has a child with her very not imaginary boyfriend, but she still expressed jealousy over me being friends with a dude with a Korean parent and wants to meet him in case her current boyfriend and _father of her child_ displeases her.
No, they have not met. I don't trust allos after everything I've seen in fandom.
we love an unprepared rant video, especially about something that so many people have no idea is a problem
*E X A C T L Y*
God I'm not even ten seconds in and I already know he's gonna mention dream stans
Nick gives me hope that there are still people with common sense out there
I do want to add a note- whenever you see someone say "[x] loves me" whether it be a real person or a character, consider the possibility of them being psychotic and experiencing some sort of delusion. While MOST people who experience delusions aren't open about it (like myself) some people ARE open about it and feel like they have to let other people know, like when someone says "[x] loves me please take this post down" they REALLY do think that! Just please try to consider the possibility instead of immediately demonizing them. Of course not everyone who does these things is psychotic or experiences delusions, but just try to think of what they could be experiencing, it's better to be safe then sorry y'know ?
Also sorry if this rant seems a bit, strange or not very well put together I quickly typed this all out off the top of my head, but uh yeah!!! also not everyone who has psychosis or delusions can get help, the best you can do is ignore + block if it really bothers you !
Yeah totally. I'm a part of the ficto community and it's sometimes hard for me to see other people experience it differently then me. For me it's very much to do with my grey- aromanticism and grey-sexuality. Where the only "people" I'll sometimes have an attraction to are those that are not real. And I'll occasionally self indulgence with some drawings or stories about them. But I never claim to actually be dating them or that they actually love me back.
But there are definitely people who get delusional about it. And think they are actually in a relationship with these characters. (I'm way less accepting of this type of thing with actual people but I digress) and I'm always super worried about them but don't think it's my place to say they are wrong or anything because most of them aren't hurting anyone
personally i don't think that falling in love with the celebrity is a problem. celebrity crushes are a natural thing and its totally fine to have them unless ur being weird/creepy abt it, like writing rpf or defending Every action they make or worse,,
yeah. having crushes on celebrities is normal and sometimes it makes you understand what you like in people, and maybe get a better understanding of your sexuality as a whole, but fanfiction about real people or shipping real people is kinda weird since there's no consent involved/they're a real person so they might feel weird about it. i honestly prefer having crushes on fictional characters and such since i have trust issues lmao
@@sedef7696 offtopic bc while ur totally right, all i could think while reading ur comment was abt how u also have a kurapika pfp fhjdfjd
@@angelfevr haha, thank you
I understand this so hard. Yes i like certain things and certain celebrities but it has never gotten to the point of me going “ I’m going to marry this”. I met a voice actor once during a con and tried my best to calm down but still remained civil. I was just excited to meet him because he was in my favorite show and voiced one of the characters. I’ve never obsessed over things like other girls and have literally told a girl “ he’s never going to meet you and he’s a real person. If anything you’re just another crazy fan that they are going to want to stay away from.” She never talked to me again and honestly I’m glad. I could never understand the illusion that a person could ever start that fantasy. People honestly just scare me at this point.
The fact that she never talked to you again for that....they really do think their delusions are reality and it’s so concerning.
@@NicholasBlack yea it honestly scared me that she actually thought she was going to go to Korea and actually meet her idol and have him fall in love with her. Worst part is she has a boyfriend and they really love each other. But she honestly thought she would have a celebrity fall in love with her.
Nicholas is a whole mood and I’m here for it
Gonna quit my job at Subway for a job at a local pizza place that I can walk to! Wish my luck.
Good luck!! 🤞🏼
Good luck!!! :)
good luck!
good luck ^-^
Update: I got a job at Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory. thank you for wishing me luck everyone :,,,)
this rant about parasocial relationships reminded me of your other rant on shifting...which reminded me that there's a whole other group of ppl out there "shifting" to date their favorite celebrities...as if objectifying them wasn't bad enough already
If I was a celebrity to find out someone shifted to date me I would be so weirded out like?? I don't fw that
YES, THANK YOUUU!! I can't stand what certain celebrity stans have become, especially during this pandemic, like it's legit God worship/fantasizing impossible and sometimes very toxic scenarios/playing their advocate for everything etc
I'm sure most of the celebrities don't care about the insults thrown at them by anyone who's not rich or famous, so it's not like they care about the person defending them or the one attacking them.
The "Real Person/Celebrity" tag on AO3 activates my fight or flight response.
"I dont know what day it is, what time it is, i dont know where i am" lmao same
I have never been part of a stan group that obsesses over real people, so this whole concept is very interesting.
I will admit that I have developed many unhealthy attachments to fiction characters, but that's my problem.
Same. I really looked up to Rihanna when I was younger (like between the ages of 7-12) but I never staned (?) her. Never understand how people could be so obsessed with another person much less someone they don't even know.
At least an unhealthy attachment to a fictional character only affects you. I’ve seen so much shit in these fandoms and :/ it gets weird
Really same! I play a lot of interactive fiction games, watch animes and read mangas so I do acknowledge some of my obsession with fictional characters but even though they are not real, these characters have been put so much love to by their authors and have amazing Storylines! I wonder to what extent is that different from people obsessed with real life people. I’m not hurting anyone! Right?
I don't know why I thought Nick was younger than me. Give me a second to process, I'm reeling.
What’s hilarious about this comment is that I’ve gotten both “holy shit you’re only 20??? I thought you were older.” AND “wait I thought you were like 17” and there’s no in between.
I hate it when there's some kind of scandal about a celebrity being rude or bullying others (like irene) and stans go "ohh but they're so nice they would never do that!". Like hello you don't even know them
i first understood the concept of parasocial relationships when i watched ludwig's video "i am not your friend," and as a young kpop stan, i try to work to remain within healthy boundaries and not get to the point of behaving like i know my favorite idols. they bring me comfort and i do know a lot about them, but i only know what they present to the public. i don't know them to the extent that i do my friends, and they don't know me at all. like, they may say we mean a lot to them, but we mean a lot to them as a group of fans, not as individual people. at first i felt a bit attacked by the message of the video, but i realize that's because i was probably beginning to slip into that unhealthy area after spending so much time consuming that content. good now tho 👍
I just want everyone to realize that celebrities are people
They aren’t in love with you
They have flaws
They don’t know you exist
People need to stop acting like they know anything about celebrities and online personalities based on what they CHOOSE to show us.
This was prevalent in the Twenty One Pilots fandom for quite some time and it likely still is, but I don't know since I chose not to be active in that trash fire anymore. As far as fandoms go, it's actually quite decent and friendly, but the bad parts are... bad. I agree with what you said about stans having headcanons about real people - they will analyze someone's every move and twist their words to fit their own perception of them. Then they act so disappointed when it turns out that the person isn't a cartoon character and is secretly more than their online persona?? Shocking /s
I got back into the Minecraft community recently, and there's something disturbing within it that I wanted to comment on because I don't think anyone else has? So I was looking for fanfiction centred around the characters that these youtubers play in an SMP (kinda DnD style) and accidentally stumbled upon some really disturbing fanfiction of these 16 year old minecraft youtubers going through like.. real trauma? I don't mean the characters they play, I mean people were writing RPF about these MCYTbers in their real life situations being victims of child abuse, or rape, and it was really fucking disturbing, especially since the main target of these fics were the kids involved in the SMP and not the adults.
I think too many people are starting to treat real people as fictional characters. You should NOT be writing a vent angst fic about a real life boy, for gods sake.
here for this rant, this is like constantly on my mind and it's only gotten worse since the pandemic.
Had to rewind the video like 20 times because I zoned out and then zoned back in(?) to Nick talking about his friend...after like the 3 millionth time I realized he didn’t mention them by name and the information I was searching for did not, in fact, exist.
This is so trueee!! Let's not forget that these deluded fans have placed thier precious idols in hospital🙃 the fact that they're okay with physically harming their faves is next level, and it seems like companies don't take it seriously for example you rarely see the stans getting charged (going to prison/sued) 😟
Me a 21 year old recovering from my knee surgery, I salute you.
I think parasocial relationships are a coping mechanism, a dangerous one.
Its becomes a habit that you get accustomed to, I know because I been there, but it's even worse when you are teenager.
I think it’s pretty normal for someone to develop a crush on a TH-camr or celebrity, especially if the person is young, as long it stays like that and doesn’t cross any boundaries. The TH-cam crushes I’ve had haven’t stuck around for long and I quickly got over them.
I LOVE UR PFP AND UR NAME PLS
Yeah I think having a crush on a TH-camr isn’t as weird as having a crush on like, some random pop singer
everytime he posts i feel a little bit more pity for him and whatever hes talking about that day
One of the most frustrating things for me about the kpop industry, is how companies essentially refuse to change how they market their idols, because they make money from fulfilling fantasies. One recent instance I can think of is on a kpop competition show between boy groups, there was a sports week. They did a whole "I promise to not cheat" etc thing. But one of the things said was "I will not injure myself because my body belongs to [the groups fans]". WHAT ON EARTH
Not only that, but I also want to bring up the consumerism that the kpop industry breeds(obviously, it's a capitalistic industry). Albums are one of the most obvious cases. People mass buy albums to get their favs photo cards, or more chances to meet their favs. That's another frustration.
I've found that usually when people are delusional like that, it's cause they're filling something in their life. For me, I was lonely. While I was never to that delusional point, I was certainly way more into it previously. There's also a hill to get over when you get into these groups especially for young ppl where you have to realize that kpop is not gonna solve your problems and kinda distance yourself. It's really kind of sad.
nick posted? my english essay can wait AHA
I just want to say that using the word "Stan" always sounded wrong to me knowing it comes from a song about a terribly obsessive fan that murders his whole family for the celebrity (here it's Eminem in the song)
it boggles my mind how people will defend their idol to the extent of excusing bigotry, even though they probably don't even know their idols middle name.
that comment about how imagining fake relationships actually impacts your physical brain really got me 💀kinda reminds me of how when zayn left 1d, ppl were literally considering committing s*icide over it. it’s strange how much being a stan actually takes up your mental space, it almost consumes you, and thereby affects your reality too.
This is a tough pill to swallow but I'm honestly so lonely all the time that i find myself fantasising about these "characters" being my friends or my romantic partner like I'll just be getting through the day buying groceries or whatever and I'll imagine im doing it with a friend and I'll assign them a random celeb's face..it's creepy and i feel ashamed admitting it
you admitted it, which is the first step towards no longer being ashamed of it, which is the first step towards moving towards a better mental future
Woah, I was just looking up parasocial relationships because I came across the term for the first time as someone who's first language isn't English and now it turns out this TH-camr that I have watched more than a couple videos from made a video about it literally a few hours ago?? Coincidence? I THink NoT.
Thank you for the informative sass, as always.
This video kind of started to make me think about what influence the internet has on us people in general. I definitely think the fact that escapism is so readily and easily accessible has both up and downsides. Positive is that people have a place to escape whatever worries they have in their life, duh. And man, do we have more and more worries these days... I feel like listing them would just be idiotic at this point, so whoever is reading this, feel free to just mentally jot your own worries down when you read this sentence.
The negative side to this escapism is that the human brain is indeed very fickle and I have seen and personally experienced how it can make you lose sense of reality. Consuming media is wonderful but it's an industry, part of our capitalist society first and foremost. It has a purpose of making capital. We'd like to forget that as we go on our (little) escapism adventures but realizing what is actually happening behind the scenes and what is happening in your brain while you consume is important, to stay grounded. Please don't get lost, for your own sake... There's a life to be lived and it's not just online that you'll find it.
In other news, I am failing at this last mentioned task myself. It is 2 am and I am literally just staying up to procastinate on the time skip to tomorrow that is called sleep. Thanks for reading this trainwreck of a post, remember that you're not alone in the world even if it feels like it and please take care of yourself, okay? I will try to do that too.
Love from a philosopical dumbass
I think I was almost lucky that even as a child and young teenager, I didn't have the tendency to stan people. Like, I liked people but I wouldn't go out of my way to defend them, I didn't think they could be my partner, I didn't even think they would be remotely interested in hanging out with me (mostly because I was 12 and they were 21 lmao).
I understand that young people are just more prone to delude themselves with that, and I honestly think I was lucky with my general personality that didn't allow that.
the parasocial relationships in the bts fandom are some of the craziest but also some of the most effective. i've been part of the fanbase, so i know how it works. all kpop groups are all marketed in a way that promotes parasocial relationships. it is part of the success of kpop (boybands in general), but with bts it seems to go even deeper. bts didn't start out with a lot of fame and resources in the kpop industry, they were from a small company. they recorded their first album in a garage for example. most of their success can be directly attributed to a dedicated fanbase. bts often thank their fans, they even have whole albums filled with songs about loving the bts army. it is like 90% of their discography the last years. another thing with bts is how they made music about the importance of mental health. a lot of stans claim "bts saved their life". stans feel a personal responsibility to defend and help them. bts is what makes them feel important, like they matter. being a "shooter for bts" was an accepted, even encouraged, concept. this means stans go out of their way to defend bts against stans from other groups, media outlets, everything. army make their own marketing campaigns for bts. when they bring out a new song, you have to stream it for 24 hours. i remember tweeting once from my bts fan twitter that bts don't need you to defend them from random antis on the internet, they're really rich and probably won't even see it. people got so upset with me i had to delete the post.
the thing is, i don't even think they created this on purpose. the fan climate just happened and now bts and their marketing team are playing into it by realising fan songs, making thank you army tweets, and creating an app where they respond to fan questions. i don't even think they're lying, when they say they love their fans. bts seem like genuinely kind people. they love their fans but not in the way fans want to believe. you as an individual don't matter to them. if you stop streaming bts and responding to their posts and fighting haters, they won't even notice. it's a hard pill to swallow for a bts stan, even if you realistically know it's true.
I am a bts fan too and I agree with you. BTS and Bighit aren't evil masterminds who made their fans like this, but I think the fans made each other this way. There are many factors that made armys into what they are today. One of them is their Underdog Story. They weren't from a big company and when they started getting big and were able to compete with the Big 3 groups, they became underdogs in the West. But some ARMYs took that as a way to justify harassing other people when they spoke (not even that) badly about BTS. Racist and xenophobic comments are never okay and neither is vile hate, but some fans do wayyyyyyyyyy too much about stuff that will never even affect BTS. Some nobody on the internet could say "bts cant sing" and they'll have a horde of fans on their neck. I never understood why some fans felt the need to do that. It's this whole "BTS x ARMY versus the world" through which they justify throwing away their morals, which is a really weird and unhealthy mindset to have.
Best would be if fans just enjoyed BTS music and content and didn't feel any obligation towards them.
You've both correctly pointed out that the Kpop industry fosters extreme/intense parasocial bonds and this is an important factor in BTS' unprecedented success within the Kpop realm. You also made note of the smart marketing - the fact that they're presented as K-Idols and thus appear innocent, pure, sweet, cute, overly polite and approachable. This is coupled with a seemingly higher work ethic, passion and talent.
So we know and it's always been clear that the Kpop industry is involved in the toxicity within Kpop fandoms because of their business model BUT the people never ever place any responsibility on the K-Idols. These K-Idols benefit from and perpetuate this system. These K-Idols are completely aware of what's going on and how unhealthy it is. It's both unhealthy for both fans and K-Idols but the idols profit from it.
BTS is completely aware of what they're doing and how it affects the fans but they continue to do it. You could argue that it's because they love performing but it doesn't change the fact that this affects the fans negatively and this is manipulative and exploitative.
BTS are completely aware of what's happening. Remember Pied Piper from LY:Her? The fans have a cute and light hearted interpretation of the song and the believe BTS is just jokingly roasting them about their affection towards them but as a person who's been negatively affected by BTS, my interpretation of Pied Piper is darker.
wait i have a story about this. i had this friend in junior year (we'll call her jay) who was a stan of this one kpop group. so at lunch one time we were talking about them because i didnt know anything about them and wanted to know what the hype was about and one of my other friends brought up how they were in some controversy bc one of their members said some racist things in his past. so me being a person of color joked around about it because what he said was ignorant and seeing how his stans were treating it was just upsetting, so i was saying things like "omg no he can say that hes baby guys leave my precious kpop smol bean alone" and some other friends joined in. we were all having a good time, but then jay was being so defensive and saying that "stuff like that" (racism) is normalized in their culture, and that he was young when he said it etc (yes she is white how could you tell). and it was so weird bc she was actually getting heated, fighting tooth and nail, for this kpop boy she doesn't even know while the rest of us (her actual friends) were just having fun and joking around. its one thing too see this on twitter but in real time and from someone you know is insane.
FINALLY. FINALLY. FINALLY. I AM SOOOOO GLADDDDD SOMEONE SAID IT ALL. THANK YOU.
Yeah......work is killing me too
Say it loud for the people in the back. I've never understood this stuff either, it's high-key creepy
I'm in many fandoms, and yes, I have wondered what it would be like to know the people and that, but not once can I remember thinking I was in an actual romantic relationship with any of them or be unhealthily obsessed with someone. Especially someone who doesn't even know I exist, and when you think about it it's really creepy. Like, imagine someone you have *never met* being like "I'm your girlfriend/boyfriend!" It's not healthy.
Me and my friends do the "headcanon" thing with each other lmao.... but it's always things like "I feel like Nate is REALLY bad a chess" or "Molly carried around a Raggedy Anne doll as a kid... change my mind". But its different because we KNOW each other. We know how we all act and behave, so we can make these lighthearted assumptions. But when its celebrities that you dont know it feels kind of... invasive? Especially when people assume things like sexuality and relationships with other celebrities
the thing with Loona is that they really made the idols anime characters.. Like they're all characters living in the loonaverse and there's a big story going on with parallel universes and shit, and the fans are encouraged to try to piece together the mvs and speculate about what is going on in the loonaverse... So someone saying one of them has beef with the others is really like talking about anime characters, the members of the group are literally not supposed to be who they play in the mvs. And I think that might actually be better, because then there's a clear cut between the idols which are characters of a story, and the people playing them
unfortunately i feel like orbits really don't know how to make the difference between the loonaverse and real life, the biggest example of this being the big "ships" in the fandom, especially predebut/debut era, which were basically the girls paired up in debut order bc they tended to feature in each other's mvs. the biggest one was chuuves bc of the romantic coded mv, and i feel like it got really bad, to the point where any interaction between jiwoo and sooyoung was seen as "omg chuuves canon!!!" even outside of just the loonaverse. i feel like maybe shipping the loonaverse characters could be okay, but since they're so tied to the real idols i think it's a bit of a slippery slope into shipping the idols themselves which can get even worse because of the characters they play, if that makes sense. this also happens with actors of characters who are more detached from them (like jared and jensen from supernatural or chris evans and sebastian stan from captain america), so i feel like the more tied they are to their characters, the more likely they are to be shipped or viewed as characters themselves as people. i hope that made sense lol
I disagree. Fans blurr the lines in these cases as well. It's like Inception because K-Idols are already characters/actors. People don't realise it but they are actors playing out a narrative created by their labels/management and the fans/consumers buy into the created fantasy. So there are 2 levels of acting here that are blurred here: there's the fictional world created by the industry and the fictional world created by their team for the MVs.
@@daaishifeeling it makes sense.
I'm actually an MCYT stan on Twitter and have first-hand experience with the culture there, and lemme tell you, our fandom is so fucking screwed. More specifically the Dream SMP part of mcyt. Most subtwts are just chilling just chilling. But the Dream SMP fandom going to burn down in a few months. The amount of people who think that they can control content creators over here is so scary. I'm a fan of someone who got in trouble earlier this year for jokes that were from like 5 years ago that were brought up by some random white person, and I've gotten death threats and some of my mutuals have been called racist slurs because of it. The amount of entitlement from them is scary. For the most part, its the content creators like the Dream Team and the Bench Trio who have the worst fans. They're some of the nicest creators, but they don't always enforce their rules so they get their boundaries broken by stans all the time. Its frustrating because if you try to criticize their behavior they'll just go "you just called me a [insert slur here]" or something like in a means to ignore valid criticism. I hate stantwt, but I've been here since before the Dream SMP was even a thing, I'm too attached to leave
Watching this after the Astroworld tragedy. So true that celebrities culture and parasocial relationships are super dangerous and harmful to everyone.
I think social media contributes to this, cause we're not only seeing the art people do, we're seeing pieces of everyday life. I caught myself like last week seeing an Instagram story of a singer I love and being like "Oh, he's back home, he posted a pic of his cats". This kind of thing can contribute to lonely or very young people feeling they're intimate with famous people.
Holy shit, the shit that goes down in the mcyt fandom, ESPECIALLY with TommyInnit, people were genuinely threatening this girl that he publicly had a crush on because they were jealous, it’s fucking terrifying
I'm glad it showed up on my youtube feed because parasocial relationships are something I've done quite a lot of research on and got to work with people who 'went through that'. And in my opinion, parasocial relationship itself isn't that bad - people build community with other fans and that is something really cool to see. But those fans who mistake admiration and romantic love are the most dangerous. As you said, the brain can fool them into believing they are really in that relationship and from that, it's basically a point of no return because those fans will get mad at the celebrity just living their life and being in relationships. (trigger warning ahead) I interviewed a girl who was admitted to a psychiatric ward after several attempts on her life because her fave celeb got married and has children. She is going through something like rehab. Another girl I met started developing delusional disorder because she truly believed she is married to a celebrity. There are thousands of people like that and twitter is only the catalyst to their actions. If they find a group of like-minded people they start feeding each other with more and more delusions. That's why (imo) kpop industry is really terrible, they exploit fans delusions to the fullest (one company used to sell necklaces with idols' blood and hair in it). No dating policies and selling the illusion of 'always available perfect boyfriend/girlfriend' is really harming both idols and the fans. And mind you, idols are victims as well, they dream about fame and success and basically start working their asses off for their companies.
edit: about kpop companies exploiting their idols, there are two more examples I'd like to highlight because there are more recent, one is an official game from SM entertainment where you can 'talk' to your favorite idols and they are planning on developing it even further using AI so you could facetime and the experience was even more real, and the second one is like a girl group with avatars so they basically highlight the perfect personas of the members. From the research I've done I can tell that from all kpop labels, SM is definitely the worst when it comes to exploiting parasocial relationships.
once you let a celebrity into your head, the only thing of them that exists to you is your ideal version of them, not a real person
ouhh nick back at it again with the legendary rant
I already know that this is going to be the most entertaining video I've watched all week.
i used to be like this. never as severe as what you explained (thinking were actually in a relationship, getting angry about idols with girls etc), but i did fantasize about relationships with kpop idols. Part of me thinks it had something to do with the severe comphet i was experiencing. It was much easier to fantasize about unattainable men and use it as an excuse to believe i was attracted to men than to confront the fact that i could never fantasize that way about a man actually in my life.
in a way it helped me affirm to myself that i wasnt a lesbian (which i am) bc i was still in denial. i do look back on it and think its weird that i used real ppl to do that but i was never super vocal about it so i guess thats something?
@@countravioli69 me too. im still figuring out my sexuality and tastes in people (masc girls tho >_
@@countravioli69 this is such a mood!!! the only men i could imagine myself with were celebrities (esp kpop idols) and fictional characters, so i clung onto that just to be able to say "look im bi im not a lesbian i will conform to society's expectations of a woman to settle down with a man!!!", so i tried to express that attraction as much as i could to avoid the fact that i was really a lesbian and never attracted to men. i find this aspect of comphet really interesting tbh, as sad/frustrating (?) as it is
Sorry to seem ignorant but what is "comphet"
@@BigGayIncorporated compulsory heterosexuality! the societal ideal that women need to be with men and men need to be with women. this is often internalised to the point that a gay man or a lesbian will think of themselves as bi or even straight because "that's what i'm supposed to do", most often unconsciously. i hope i explained that okay! if you need more info i suggest googling the lesbian masterdoc, i think it has good explanations and examples of comphet even if it doesn't apply to you.
"Dream dosnt care about you"
Yes
Thanks for posting this video because I've never thought of it like that before mostly because I've never gone out of my way to even see those kinds of things seeing as how I've only been on social media to hang out with friends and to watch random videos
I used to be super into RPF (never reader x stuff tho), first for some TH-camrs and then for K-Pop, and I can honestly say I hate that I ever contributed to this commodification of real people. It took me a really long time to learn how and why it was wrong, and I sometimes still wanna reread the fanfics I read back then because there are some that were actually really beautiful and they've stuck with me, but I could never go back to them because of this now. I guess I still do say "wife me" and stuff when I see certain idols but I never meant it, now I'm wondering if that kinda vocabulary is also contributing to this. But yeah, great video, and this definitely needed to be talked about!
Also, idk much about MCYT but I saw that some people were treating Dream (?) like their therapist and talking to him about their problems and I feel like that's a really bad thing to do for both sides: you can't be guaranteed trust and that the person won't use that against you and they can also give you really bad advice since they're not in any way qualified, and they're having all this trauma dumped on them from people they may feel obligated to help so they don't lose the parasocial relationship (if they didn't listen to their problems they might be labelled as "insensitive" or something by the community and lose people's support). So please don't trauma dump on people who aren't qualified and didn't ask for any of this
Me working 7 days a week just so I can one day *maybe* buy a home for myself and my dogs 👁👄👁
I felt this so hard. Stay strong, friend, we can do this.
this was such and eye-opener, i've been thru some shit and that became my coping mechanism, i serached love in these ppl bcz my parents never showed me some and also my maladaptive-daydreaming affects this so much too. I'm trying to get out of this cuz i'm just now realizing how fucked up this is, thank you so much.
As sad as it is for me to admit I read fanfics (even ones that ship real people) and appreciate a fair few celebrities, I can at least say I never bothered with self-insert stories or desired to be close with celeb-crushes. I’m conflicted on the act of writing stories of real people without their consent, but I’d say the most crucial part is to understand the stories are fiction (all are technically alternate universes as far as we-the public- know) and should not be pushed onto the actual people...just keep that shit away from them ffs.
It gets even weirder when I interact with some fans who assume someone’s sexuality because they want to believe the person will be *only* interested in their particular gender/type 😐
I’m not even talking about the people who freak out on other people who have the possibility of sharing some relationship with their crush (that shit gets real ugly), wouldn’t surprise me if there’s some overlap with that though.
THIS. i was a kpop "stan" for a couple years where my mental health was really bad and i just slipped down a rabbit hole. thankfully i never got as bad as some of the people you mentioned but the fantasizing of even just being in a platonic relationship with these people was not good for my mental health. i pulled myself out of it around a year ago and limited my time on twitter which helped me a lot. rn i'm in the mcyt fandom (where it's sadly parasocial as fuck on twitter ) but i've learned my lesson and only interact with the memes and fanart from the sane people and i'm out. i refuse to call myself a stan because the dedication and emotional attachment that comes with the word (from what i've experienced with kpop and continue to see) is very uncomfortable. it's so easy to get caught up in the "sh00ter for a celebrity" mindset (don't even get me started on some of these dream stans) and it's just overall fucking awful.
Kpop stans honestly scare me even though im into kpop. I love watching behind the scenes content, seeing people interacting and doing chaotic stuff makes me happy after a long day but I'm perfectly aware that it's very likely just a front/ ''acting''. Like yes I enjoy stray kid's music and content and I find it extremely endearing, but even if I had the oppurtunity to meet them (asides from like, a concert) I wouldnt act up on it. They're not my friends! I dont know them and I dont really wanna be their friends either, its weird
tb to when a girl in hs genuinly tried to punch me in the face bc i told her she would Not in fact be marrying harry styles
Man I lived a short term parasocial moment with some kpop group (mind you I was 19) and I suppose it wasn’t THAT bad, but bad enough to mess up with my emotions (usually felt super sad), but thank god I realized how weird and unhealthy it was getting and I could get over it. I’d say it’s ridiculous but it’s so easy to fall into that trap, kinda like a cult, specially if you’re young and impressionable. Plus, they way these kpop companies deliberately push all these fantasies is just sickening to me.
with the fanfiction part I’m very “write whatever you want as long as you tag it right”, but the real person x reader fics have always given me a feeling of dread haha. It’s so sad people feel they have to seek fulfillment in celebrities they don’t know like that. And the parasocial thing goes both ways: with love and hate. Anyone who has any *extremely* strong opinion on a celebrity where they spend a lot of time and energy on talking about them, on the internet or irl? They’re just a person, it’s not your job to defend or police them, y’know?
My golden rule of fandoms: If they can have an employer look up their names and, as a result, get FIRED by whatever you post then things like irl shipping and fandom shipping is not appropriate.
I also think its worth mentioning that a lot of the people doing this are really young, like preteens and teens, and since no one thinks its much of an issue with them, they'll grow up thinking its ok, and it really really isn't. That also leads into young people, minors, thinking they have a chance with celebrities, and it can put celebrities in an awkward position, because they have to stop their fans from doing that but if they're not careful it can genuinely ruin their careers, and if they don't stop them then its some really weird underage shit going around online and its not safe.
I feel like this should be taught in schools. Like, you learn a bit about internet safety in school nowadays, but people are unprepared for celebrity internet culture.
as a member of the minecraft youtube community I can agree. The stans are terrifying and some content creators lack of boundaries is absolutely insane
I know I sound crazy but I understand the people that do this, because I do it to an extent. I have always used movies and music to cope and have clung to the idea of celebrities. The character they put to the world while they hoard the wealth. I cling to the idea that they are perfect people and i obsess about being like them even though I don't know what they are like! I don't know why I do this and I know it is unhealthy. I just want to be perfect.
this was a rlly interesting way to put it
Dude, I totally understand.
I just simp for fictional characters in my own little world. Like i’m in deep but I don't push it on anyone or anything. I just quietly consume content and imagine. I wish more people would do that
Oml I do the same
What you said about the idols in kpop and that they are "characters" this made me remember star system in the golden era of cinema. Like was a big never stop acting for the actors and actresses. Their life needed to be accepted by the company and stuff like that. (I dont know if I am 100% right but was something like that)
Around the 7-8 minute mark where he talks about how it's hard to tell what you imagined and what's real, this is totally true. I'm in my own head a lot, and have been fir most of my life, and there have been times when all I did was daydream (whether I was sick, in a bad mental place, or just had nothing to do) and it got hard to tell what I imagined or dreamt and what was actually real. To the point where I have to check sometimes because I occasionally confuse my more realistic dreams with reality. Anyway, idk, maybe I'm crazy but I've definitely experienced this.
Tldr: Nick ain't kidding when he says it's hard to tell if something is real or imagined, it's happened to me before multiple times.
Like most people I also grew up around fandoms, but it was always fictional ones (which can also become very problematic sometimes ngl) so whenever I stumble into a real life fandom it startles me a little and I'm like "wtf is going on here??"
Anyone else feel like KPOP stannies often have some kind of fetishy “I love gay men so cute” way of seeing Korean men?
God I remember when the story time animation community started growing and I’d fantasize about like,, emailing Jaiden Animations and us becoming best friends and shit :/// This hurt to type omfg
i feel like a lot of this is a big thing in mcyt due to the fact that c! characters and the ccs are two different people technically. however, a lot of the ccs personality goes into the characters, and the line is blurred a lot. plus for people who do facecam streams/have a face reveal (or even some that dont) there’s always rly gross edits n people being like “oh this ones for the *insert person* simps” or whatever. i even saw a clip where quackity was doing some event where fans could join a call or smth and talk to him and this kid joined and the first thing they said was something about how he’s their favorite cc and that they lowkey have a crush on him even tho they’re 16, which must be SO WEIRD especially since he’s an adult. don’t get me wrong i love dsmp and mcyt, the lore and plot lines for dsmp are super cool and all the ccs are amazing writers and actors, but i feel like lots of fans take it too far. most of the fans i interact w are very respectful of the ccs boundaries and everything and they’re perfectly nice and normal, but a lot of what i see reposted from twitter is insane and donos on twitch tend to get out of hand. idk how much of this made sense but yeah lol
at first i thought that i never really did this, but i remembered a couple years ago whenever i was at my lowest point, i developed a special interest of twenty one pilots. when it got really bad, i used to come up with these scenarios in my head that i was talking to them about my problems and they were basically my personal therapists. i viewed tyler and josh as parental figures, all because i was scared to talk to my mom. i still am, but now i just rant to friends and not the image of celebrities that i have in my head.
I didn't know you were 20-
I thought you'd still be 19 lmao-
Anyways, I agree with the whole video, near the end where you brought up people giving REAL people headcanon, wooboyy
I will never understand how you can view REAL people as characters?? Then proceed to make headcanons for them?
They're not like some character you made, these are, keep in mind, r e a l people
This will always stump me
it‘s especially bad when you‘re young and in these circles of people encouraging this type of behaviour. i was an exo stan at 14 y/o and the amount of ADULTS that would make headcanons about real people (even sexual) is baffling.
OMG NICK I LOVE YOU! YOU'RE MY HUSBANDO! YOU'RE PERFECT IN EVERYWAY (/sarcasm)
when i was younger like 11-14 i used to write x reader friendship fics between me and mostly characters and some irl people, it helped a little in the moment but it only ended up hurting more in the end when I convinced myself these friendships I made up were almost real when they weren’t. this doesn’t add anything to the video or anything just wanted to get it off my chest i guess