Why I'm Sending Back My Line6 HX Effects
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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I really like the Line6 HX Effects but I encountered issues I could fix so I'm sending it back.
Line6 HX Effects
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There's this thing called 'Settings" inside each program. The strange feature allows you to adjust the input and output levels of each program so you don't have any buffer issues or reciprocally any artificial overdriven/distorted sound (all the factory levels are set a bit hot). If you had made these adjustments I am 100% confident you would have seen why Line 6 is the pinnacle in it's space.
Agree, but if he prefers to use something else, no problem there.
Hey everyone! It's been around 3 years since I posted this video I wanted to point out that the issues I experienced with this unit might have been caused by a faulty unit or might be specific to just some types of guitar amps. Or maybe the whole thing was fixed via software update. Just make sure that when you buy HX Effects you have some sort of return or exchange option in case this unit doesn't work with your amp.
I have used HX Stomp with my amps with no issues.
Yes thanks. I am having the issue described here , firmware 3.15, new unit. My amp sounds like a$$ with HX effects in the loop. I will send it back, will try gx 100 or the core. I think it works with the Stomp because of impedance. I am sorry to see that there are so many comments of patronizing people who think they invented the whole in the pasta. Keep it up.
I seem to be missing something. To my knowledge, buffering is a concern when working with true bypass pedals when they are off (not when they are on). Consequently, if the HX Effects unit is not bypassed, to my understanding, it should be buffering the signal. If I'm correct, then your tone change would be caused by your Helix HX setup (if you are not bypassing the unit). Could you give more information about your signal path ? From the video, you didn't seem to be bypassing the unit. If my understanding is wrong, please correct me.
Itd not about the buffering, the Helix even when bypassed adds this digital touch to the sound which I find a bit unpleasant. Almost like a bad compressor or a limitor.
I own this unit. Im satisfied with all the effect accept not totally convinced the distortions and overdrives in 4 cable method sound good enough. So I don’t use the distortions but all the other effects. All the other effects are really good. This unit is easy to use, moreso than many multi-effects ive used
I'm a little late to this party but a OneSpot Pro CS12 will power the HX Effects off a single outlet. You just need the bigger barrel adapter. I do hear a slight loss of high end in the demos. Cheers!
Thanks for the info! Been debating on switching to this from my hx stomp as I don’t use the amp modeling. I can definitely tell a difference when you use the 4 cable method.
I appreciate you taking the time to make this review!
Thanks! I actually have and use HX Stomp myself and it doesn't seem to have the issues the HX Effects unit had.
I'm inclined to agree with previous comments regarding buffering and the example comparison being unfair.
Putting a buffer before going back to the HX Effects from the FX Send on the amp would have solved the issue.
You're getting capacitance going from your guitar to the amp but that's the sound you know and are comfortable with, but you are also adding another 20-30 feet of cable going from the amp back the the HX and them back again. That's a lot of cable. I just feel that your information is misleading to potential buyers as you aren't taking a lot of the normal cable stuff into account.
The buffers may not be great on the HX, but it's not helped by the straight to amp comparison.
If it's not too late, put a Boss pedal or anything buffered between amp fx send and HX stomp fx return. I can assure you there be little to no noticeable tone loss at that point.
Otherwise, your tone was great and the Revv sounded ace. Just a shame that the comparison was unfair and people are just jumping on saying its bad when it's actually not
well if you need additional stuff to fix a problem that obviously everyone will have with this unit, I mean that's a poor design. You thing a regular guitarist who buys this unit will buy 1 meter long cables and will stand near the amp? This should have been though through and Line 6 should have adjusted the buffer. And also it brings unwanted compression. Also line 6 states that helix is buffered so in the end the products is flawed not the user.
I'm sure the FX loop on the Revv amp is buffered. HX Effects is an active unit so every output on it is buffered by design. If the unit sucks tone like this, it is simply a bad design regarding hardware or very bad AD conversion. If the signal is ruined at the output of HX Effects, no external buffer or device will restore it to what it was, what's lost is lost. Basic rule of any audio: you can always cut something out of the signal or degrade it, but not vice versa.
@@OsmiumStudios not saying that I have to buy 1 meter long cables, but tu spend a good bunch of money on good cables.
I'm playing live gigs since 6/7 years ago, and before I started using pedals I found how much is important the quality of the cables I'm using. This thing is increased when using more pedals and more cables!
On my actual setup, I've got 20meters of cables (2 5 meters cables for the direct line and 2 5 meters cables on my send and return loop), without measuring all the patch cables between my pedals, never had an issue of "losing" my tone even with all this cables. Why? Because I've spent more than 250€ on all my cables setup (just one of my 5 meters cable costs 60€, and I made myself all my patch cables using Reference both cables and connectors).
Many time I see people spending big ammounts of money on their rigs, guitars, amps, pedals but not on cables, or they just buy cables by their look... Then don't ask why you (not you, in general) sound like shit even if you have 2-3k€ guitar and 5k€ amp
please see my reply. cI would like your feedback.
KC I have heard people saying that they’ve had success with using a buffer, on forums, etc. Whether it’s a case of some kind of placebo effect, I don’t know, but people have had success with a buffer.
I can totally understand this video. If you get a piece of gear and it doesn't do what you need it to do then send it back and find the right item for you. Cheers Vlad!!
Yeah I was really looking forward to have this thing as the centrepiece of my rig. Unfortunately you sometimes need to try it yourself to know that it doesn't work for you.
Due to using all of those cables, the capacitance of your signal chain has changed. I believe if you used a buffer or two in the chain that problem would be solved. You have to think about how long your signal chain is now, especially with the four cable method. All those cables are going to change the sound no matter what you plug into. I definitely think that will solve the problem completely. You can use more than one buffer. This problem also has to do with the true bypass nature of the unit. True bypass will always do that especially in longer cable lengths and when you start adding a lot of true bypass pedals.
I am well aware what problems using long cables bring with them. The issues I had with the HX Effects are not just because of the cables, but because of the bad input and output buffering on the unit. There's a comparison video on my channel between HX Effects and Boss MS-3 and the Boss retains the original tone perfectly. Now that unit has it's own imperfections, but at least it keeps your original signal intact. I don't want to invest in one or two buffers just to fix the issues HX Effects introduces, I'll just get something else instead.
I know this video is from a while back but I agree. I have the hx effects with an EVH Stealth 50. I've been having trouble getting a good tone and yesterday I was learning a new song and thought man the amp sounds good today. I forgot to turn the effects loop on so it was just the amp. I'm going to keep it but not with my tube rig. I have a pod go I'll pair it with to free up space.
Have you added a buffer to it?
I think that the loss of tone may be dependant on the amp used, I tried the 4 cable method with my Egnater and it was very noticeable, just got a H&K Tubemeister 36 and there is virtually no tone loss. One way of getting back a bit of lost 'sparkle' is to put the Helix Kinky Boost first in line, before any fx loops, and set it to Drive 0, Boost off and Bright on, leave it switched on permanently. Works great for me. Only snag is that you need to do that on every preset which reduces the number of effects to 8 per preset.
Yeah I have friends who don't notice any signal loss with the HX Effects. I was able to achieve similar setup with a different device, so I didn't want to go through all the hassle. HX Effects is super fun to use, just wish Line6 would up their hardware game a bit.
Thank you for this very instructive video !!
Thanks for the useful information. Nice sounding gear without the HX !
They made it true bypass. You need a buffer to maintain tonal integrity. I would assume they made it true bypass because a lot of people think it’s “vintage” but in actuality without a buffer in your loop, the longer your chain is the less tone you have.
You can actually select whether the unit is true bypass or not and that didn't make any difference whatsoever. I suspect the buffering is just done poorly.
Thanks! I was very near getting one in place of my verbs and delays mainly. The tone concern is a huge turn off.
When you use the 4 cable method you need to set your pre-amp, it means your front input, as an FX loop 1 on the HX effects. Without doing this everything sounds wierd. It is one of the basic things you have to do before the first use. Only then you can choose which effects you put before input a which ones in your amp´s loop. Did you do that?
There is a difference in sound with any amp even straight in using a 3' vs a10' cable vs a 20' or vs 40 feet of cable (an in and out of a pedal)
Old Marshalls were bright amps and people would often use the longest cables to help reduce the highs, they also noticed the amp sounded different with 1 pedal vs 2. It's all relative.
Every thing has some effect even if slight.
Sounding "different" does not necessarily mean sounding bad.
Vladimir I can't thank you enough... You've saved me encountering the dissapointment! Was about to order but now I think I will pass. Seems to some nasty compression going on there...
YES YES. I am looking around because I am second guessing myself. I'm getting the same result. Send it back bro!
I did indeed send it back. :)
Very helpful. I think this means I won't buy used. If I get this I'll buy it new from a store I have a relationship with so I can return it with no hassles. I'd put my favorite drives before a unit like this (If I get one) not in a loop... and use the internal drive pedals for those times that I cannot tap-dance. I really hope I can do the four cable method with something always buffered (and on) like the Vertex Boost with volume pedal... and that will take care of the tone suck. But I will be ready. I will set up in a loud room (not at my apartment) and really test it for noise and for tone loss. If it turns out I must return it... I will return here and thank you for giving me the heads-up.
my hx effect sounds fantastic!
Happy to hear that!
One issue that I've noticed that I rarely hear anyone bringing up is if you use the midi to change channels on your amp, there is a horrible lag.
Hmm I don't remember having that but it's been a while.
Thanks for the review Vladi! I had same problem with other Line6 products haha.
The bigger Helix units seem to work just find, I guess it's the issue with just this one. :/
Wow! I could hear the tonal difference on my Macbook speakers! I'm sure feel is lost too. This is precisely why I'm not going this route. My amps are too good and I'm too much of a tone snob to compromise. But it certainly would be a great solution for sending stereo reverbs and delays into two amp as well as convenient switching all in one unit. That's all I really want it for, but if it compromises my fundamental amp tone, it's no go. Shame really.
I just bought this unit two days ago and has not yet arrived and here I am seeing this video for the first time and trying my best to not shit my pants, I hope mine is a new and improved version lol!
Haha sorry for causing you anxiety! My friends have have great experiences with their Helix units, so maybe mine was a faulty one or it really didn’t like my amp.
@@CatPickStudios fingers are crossed!
@@phantomofoaktown how is it?
Thanks for this video. It sure made me change my mind.
Josey Stranded please don’t consider this video. Its his experience. Dudes tone sucked dry
Ok great.
CatPick Studios - dude, whether your 'tone sucked dry' or not isn't the point.
If the unit changes what is going through it when the effects are bypassed the box sucks ass.
Anyway, maybe you're partial to a tone that 'sucks dry' 🤣
Regardless, thanks for putting the work in as you've saved me money and hassle I don't have time for.
🙏
It could have something to do with digital to analogue conversion. I noticed the same issues with the flagship Helix. In fact it was more noticeable on Bass. Every audio jack that is used means going through DAC. So, if you use the loop, that’s 4 times your signal goes through the conversion process.
With 4 cable method your probly running the wrong impedance into the front of your amp from the loop send on the hx, they should have a switch to change from line to instrument.
I did check all the impedance stuff several times. Several of my guitarist friends play just Helix nowadays and they helped me troubleshoot the unit several times with no luck. It's just bad buffering and/or AD/DA conversion in the unit.
This. A separate send block set at instrument level, and a separate return block set at line level. Leaving you 7 blocks for effects.
I Love the HX effects! I'm using it as a beatboxer with my RC505 looper and I think it's a super fun box. I'm not using the routing options sorry to hear this is causing problems. The quality of the effects is stellar and a lot of them! Also the price is amazing compared to other boutique stompboxes who only do one effect. Nevertheless great video, I respect that you are not bashing Line6 and totally see why this box isn't working for you. Damn that routing thing should definitely be fixed!
Dude, how could we make every TH-cam comment as this one?! Seriously, I really appreciate you understanding the issues I had and not taking it as an attack on all Helix users or anything like that. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
This is the reason I got rid of my helix. I never had this problem with m13 or the pod hd.
Yep. I wish Line6 would up their hardware game a bit.
Good, honest review. Which makes a change. But I have to say, I love my HX. But, I will also say, that it is a very fickle unit. It seems to either get on with your amp, or it doesn’t. Its amp channel switching seems to only work with certain amps, also. I had the exact same issue as you when I first got it, but after lots of fiddling around with settings etc, that compressed, sterile sound went away. I still don’t know how I solved it.
Thanks for sharing!
Maybe you changed the line/inst settings and levels for the I/O?
@@CatPickStudios I don't think you can ever get the same sound as plugging directly into the amp because the impedance curve will be different from the amp. It would probably sound more like if you put a plain buffer in front of your amp, which makes it seem like tone suckage.
With digital gear, sometimes I lole to use my real pedals in front of whatever unit, because my guitar pickups then interact with the pedals directly. This is with passive pickups.
With active pickups, you might not notice any tone suckage at all, bdcause the signal is already buffered in the guitar itself.
I have a feeling that you probably don't like EMG's too much..
*August 2020*
Have they fixed this with any of their updates yet????
Fixed what? The unit in 4cm needs to run the adc/dac/adc 2 different times. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if you have decent converters but you have to set your gain stage appropriately. This is more user error than a production issue. He should have tested the amps effects loop with a 10ft cable jumped from out to in against the Hx FX in the effects loop. Then we could see what he is talking about. Otherwise I just hear that his effects loop has issues with impedance. I have used the same unit in our studio with several amps, there is no drastic tone or touch sensitivity loss. That or he got the last unit built on a Friday. IDK
@@lashram32 Ok so what you're saying is the difference is going to be in length of cable and the corresponding tone suck associated with long runs?
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I'm just saying if your going to AB test with and without the unit in the effects loop, you should include the effects loop in the control group. It could be the culprit. I have personally used the unit in 4cm several times in a professional studio. The first few times was because the band was going to record using helix native post and transfer the settings to HxFX for tour. But when setting up just went with the HXFX for a live improv recording. We liked the result. Our studio purchased one for all of the overdrives and Mods on tap. We continued to use it when bands wanted to record live, even though we had the Helix Native plugin. If there was a difference it was not an obvious one.
I run mine in into my Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 40, using the 4 cable method with 20 ft cables, and this thing rocks. I initially got it to replace my G Major as it didn't have the ability to go 4-cable and I wanted to have a noise gate, compressor and overdrive pushing the front of the amp. There is a minor delay when switching presets but it's far from a deal breaker. The effects themselves are awesome as well. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you...
Yeah it sucks that the setup didn’t work. It was a clear choice since I’m not getting rid of my amp, but just the sheer practicality of HX FX would have been awesome.
Yes understand that, and sound change was there in the video!,. Answer for you lies in a GigRig2 :) and your pedals and your favorite amp = no tone loss 👍🏼 & no tap dancing !!!!
I agree that the plug, power supply, is just stupid! I will also agree that art first, the terrible tone, is disheartening 😞, i tried for several weeks and almost sent my back more than once. However, i will say that i finally discovered the"sweet spot" where it seemed to open up and really shine with my amp. It took quite a bit of patience on my part, though, but for me, it's worth it in the end.
I'm thinking it was more due to your amp's effects loop. Or maybe your global settings on the hxfx.. but if you tested other devices in your amp's loop with no issues, and you also adjusted the level settings in the hxfx ins and outs, then maybe you're on to something here.
I agree with you, even in (true?) bypass it sucks both dynamic range and bandwidth.
Maybe a buffer would help with the cable runs?
I actually tried that with no luck.
So I watched this video prior to purchasing my unit, but I only planned to use it in my amps loop anyway so I went ahead and went for it. After having it a few days I was curious about the 4cm and the issue so I gave it a try. I honestly don't notice anything. It's no different than when I ran my usual pedalboard. I'm also not using my OD pedals in the loop I'm running them guitar>fuzz>OD>Boost>Amp. No noticeable tone suck, so I get to use the whole setup when I only expected to use it for delays verbs and mods. I'm running it into my tubemeister 40w deluxe.
Happy to hear that! As I mentioned in the video, I was a bit bummed that it didn't work out. Maybe my unit was faulty or maybe the amp had some issues. Since putting other pedals and multi-fx through amp's loop worked great I narrowed it down to HX FX.
Sound wise I think it's great, hope you're having a lot of fun with it!
@@CatPickStudios loving it! It's weird cause I have always loathed line 6 lol. These units are different. So weird how they just don't get a long with some amps. I'm one of the lucky ones I suppose! It can never replace my drive pedals but everything else is sounding pretty superb!
I had a similar issue with my M5 until I turned it to true bypass and significantly decreased the internal noise gate function. IDK if those options are available on the HX but it worked for me with the M5.
Yeah it does have true bypass option but it didn't seem to make any difference. So the issue is in something else with HX Effects.
Yes, turn of the noisegate and limiter
There's an internal noise gate?
My G-System does the same!
I think the best (and only) option is a good quality pedal switcher and pedals. Quality comes with a price :/
Yep, I tried a BOSS MS-3 and while I think it's not as good with it's built in effects, BOSS knows how to do great hardware and I had no tone loss issues with it.
Thanks for sharing this sir!
You're welcome!
Haven’t had any issues with mine!
That's great! I wonder if it's something they fixed or just something with the amp.
I have also owned a HX Stomp and that worked great with my Revv D20.
If it was only cable capacitance, there would be a loss of highs, right? The Helix samples were brittle with a loss of lows. I think you just saved me a lot of hassle!
Yeah, long cables will do exactly what you described. That's why I suspect it's both A/D and D/A conversion an buffering issue as well. It's been a year and I'm still disappointed this didn't work out, the pedal itself was great.
Hi. Did you change the line/instrument level in global settings?
Hey! Saw Henning tag me in the group. :) Yeah I tried that, also tried changing the buffer settings and everything. Asked couple of friends who are Helix experts and they said their Helix LT and HX Stomp have some impedance settings that could have helped. Unfortunately HX Effects didn't have those.
CatPick Studios ahhh bummer, I have to say mine works great with my EVH amp, bad luck.
Yeah maybe it was just with this amp, not sure. Some people seem to have issues with the unit, some don't.
I don't have a Helix, but for £389 (in the UK) it's a lot of value. G2 (from Gigrig) plus power (from Gigrig) for 10 pedals will set you back around £1,500! Plus the cost of 10 pedals, cables (which are not cheap if you want to cut them to size) and a board to put them on!! So if you've got that kind of budget great, if not there has to be a compromise somewhere.
Yeah I think you're right. The HX Effects is a great collection of good sounding effects, I just didn't like the quality of the hardware and how it affected the original signal. Many people don't have those issues with the unit and for them it's an amazing deal.
I could hear the difference but it was so subtle. To me it sounded like a slight bump in the low miss and a slight decrease in the highs.
I could be wrong, but doesn't the HX have a Global EQ that could possibly remedy this?
Yea it does have a global EQ unless I remember it wrong. But it was not only the change in sound but also in feel. The amp just felt much worse to play when HX FX was plugged it. The dynamics were almost completely gone.
@@CatPickStudios Have you ever heard of ADDA?
Have you ever compared an analog vs digi. There is a difference. Case is closed.
The thing is, I’ve had other multi-FX units that didn’t have that retained original sound perfectly. For example the Boss MS-3 kept my amp sounding identical to when I used it without any pedals.
AD/DA conversion can be done poorly or really well. Good converters cost money and that’s where Line6 apparently decided to save some.
I've got the full Helix Floor and can't tell the difference in 4CM with my Bogner tube amp. I did notice that the quality of cables has an effect, I lost a fair bit of top end when I had a Helix send connected to the amp input with a cable that has a fair amount of capacitance. With a good, short cable, no such issues. I also have a Keeley D&M Drive in one of the loops and again seems to work just as it does straight into the input. I have read similar complaints to yours about the HX Stomp so maybe they've changed something on these newer, more affordable units?
I'm using really good cables from Hosa, so that shouldn't be the issue. To me it just seems they wanted to save money on this unit and the loops are part of the savings.
It sounds like they cheaped out on the loops to get the price down. I totally heard the tone get sucked out too!!
I know you wish to connect it differently, but what if you add ex a drive pedal in line, guitar - pedal - helix - amp, would that not create a clear signal patch from pedal to amp, given the FX is true bypass?
Well the thing is the HX Effects isn't true bypass, or at least it certainly didn't feel like one. Does it say in the specs that it's try bypass? :o
CatPick Studios thanks. Was planning to buy one, hoping I finally would like Line 6 effects. Have seen reviews where the clearly state its true bypass, even a demonstration guy from Line 6 mention it. If its not, I will not waste my money - cause need to use some pedals with the unit
Hey Vladimir, I got rid of my Helix after being told it would do any routing I could possibly want. I found an issue where if you inserted the IR block, it collapses the signal to mono no matter where you place it. I simply wanted to run my cabs on stage without the speaker IR, and send a split to Front Of House with speaker IR's so I didn't have to mic my cabs. I had all the experts at Line 6 tell me they'd work it out, only to get back to me to say they couldn't work it out and i did indeed find a bug. Not sure if they've addressed it yet but I sold my unit shortly after.
Thank Rick for commenting. Yeah there's some weird stuff here and there. One thing I didn't even mention was the noise this thing introduced as well. My friends have a Helix LT and Helix Stomp and those seem to work so much better than this unit. Not sure why.
There is tone loss using 4 cable method... It's a good unity, but does not give what it should... Good review.
I'm really disappointed with mine as well. The unit has all these pedal possibilities yet a closer look shows a lot of them are repeated in the subdivisions (mono, stereo, legacy). Its cool that you can use any type of pedal into input 1 & control all the wah effects & the send & return is cool too. However, the distortion options suck & virtually all of your synth choices are completely UNUSABLE!! The reverb choices are VERY few, fuzz pedal choices sound the same. I honestly prefer using my antiquated GNX4.
Tonesuck, yes; but i use a TC Electronics buffer with it, problem solved.
Which actually tells me how little Line6 cared about the buffering of the loops.
@@CatPickStudios true, but in the end i'm verry satisfied with the device.
And indeed, that power plug is awful
Glad you like it! I think I just might be the allergic to multi-effects units in general, my brain doesn't seem to be wired in a way where I would enjoy using them...
Just a quick point. Old cables were killing my tone. Test old cables against a brand new cable. You may be shocked. You can’t run 4 or 7 cables back and forth to the amp with old cables. Maybe the pedal does have an issue, but it can easily be the cables.
unless your cables are high quality OXYGEN FREE COPPER your losing tone by the year. But here is how you fix that (at least in the US - not sure about other countries). I used to work in several big music stores. Most cable manufacturers give you a lifetime warranty.
1- get a brand new high quality cable
2- a b test it comparing it to each of your old cables.
3- Go to the store and read the package to see which of your old cables have lifetime warranties or check in line.
4- Simply go to the music store with one or two of your oldest cables at a time (don’t try to exchange 30 cables at once) and tell them they no longer work. They will see that they have no signs of abuse. Have them do a warranty replacement for you. If they plug them to test them then tell them that it has an intermittent problem where the sound cuts out. Most of the time they will do an exchange on the spot. Sometimes they will have to order the exact cable. Maybe some companies will require you to send it back to them for a replacement. Doesn’t matter - the lifetime warranty is a promise from the company that the cable will last a lifetime. If it sounds dead after 10 years then that’s not good enough in my opinion. Keep in mind cables only cost a few dollars to make and the stores get most instrument cables for about 20% of what they charge you. This is his stores make their money. Cables, accessories, books, picks. The mark up on this stuff is Insane. Besides, the store gets a credit from the manufacturer. No one is harmed.
Last recommendation. Buy cables like mogami with oxygen free copper. They also have the lifetime warranty. It’s an investment and insurance in one. Buy one and compare it to you oldest cable. If you can’t hear the difference, especially in the treble, clarity and even gain/volume level then you old cable is fine, but most people will be able to actually hear it. Wires corrode and rot over time - the resistance increases and electrons don’t pass as well. You can probably see it on a meter or a scope.
I notice they same after my 3 days with the hx effects. To me it like global noice gate.cutting your tone short. I wonder if there is a setting in the global
Some people have said it's a specific issue with HX Effects and not with other Helix units. I might get a Stomp at some point and see if it works better. The effects themselves sound great, I just want the unit to retain my amp's sound.
@@CatPickStudios can you tell me, if I would have a problem retaining my sound with the HX effects, if I just run the unit between my guitar and the instrument input in my amp (I have an old fender HRD amp, and it has got no fx loop or send/return)?
Hey Vladimir, thanks for this really helpful video. I was stumped on whether to move on to digital tech or stick to analog gear but this was the decisive piece of advice. I guess you don't have the HXFX anymore but back when you did have it did running it on 4CM "digitize" the overall sound even without any/few presets engaged?
I'm a high gain player and only need the HXFX for basic modulation, reverb and those weird effects every now and then (All of the distortion is coming from analog gear). As convenient and cool the HXFX is I don't wanna sacrifice good sound for ease of use. But what if I suddenly want a whammy but don't wanna carry that red brick around? Really wish digital tech catches up with analog gear.
Well the HX FX did affect the tone of my amp when the effects loop was engaged. Whet it was off, I didn't really notice a difference. I think I mentioned this in the video, but it could be a specific issue with the amp I had. But because it was my dream amp the HX FX was the one to go.
I still love the idea of HX effects and could see myself getting one again. I'm actually using a POD GO for live stuff right now and while the sounds aren't 100%, it's still a lot of fun.
@@CatPickStudios I'm thinking it was more due to your amp's effects loop. Or maybe your global settings on the hxfx.. but if you tested other devices in your amp's loop with no issues, and you also adjusted the level settings in the hxfx ins and outs, then maybe you're on to something here.
Oh, man. I just ordered one to use as a backup and on smaller stages. I have a Gigrig G2 and nice collection of pedals. It's a fairly big board though. I use a Mesa Boogie TC-50.
Was hoping it would work nicely with the 4 cable method and midi.
I was going to use this the same way as you and I am very critical of tone.
I'm so disappointed.
Thank you for the video. You saved me some aggravation.
Yeah it's weird with the HX Effects. I'm really interested to try my friend's HX Stomp, because it seems to have impedance settings and stuff like that, so maybe it doesn't have the same issues.
why not go for the fractal audio fx8?
Because it has a way bigger footprint and 2,5 times the price.
i found the same issues, but i changed my cables and it got a little better, for me is not a big problem, my sound is digital hahaha , hope they fix this in the next update.
Do still use it? I am doubting to sell my effects and go for a helix
@@martinus19 i still use it, best effects/switching solution in the market. I think it's a little picky with the amp you are pluggin it. I use to have a orange cr120 h, and sounded OK, but i replaced it with a 70's Bassman and holy crap how the sound changed, it was like passing from 480p to 4K. Search the "Line 6 HX Effects Users" group on FB.
@@JP-is9sc thanks man!
Yeah i want to sell my effects buy this one and a good amp. Thinking about two rock or fender princeton reverb
I’ve never had a single issue with my HX.
That's good, it's a fantastic unit if it only had worked with that particular amp at the time.
Why wouldn't you go Guitar to pedal to front of amp and use the HX FX on the send n return of the amp??? That way works best for no loss of tone.
Because then I wouldn't be able to program the pedal to be part of a preset. Also, the biggest tone loss happened when I used HX FX in the loop, not because of the pedal.
Yeah that sounds like a buffer thing.
I really liked the unit, but I liked my amp's sound and feel more.
Oh believe I get that though. I ran an es8 for a little while and just couldn’t get to sound like my amp without it.
Well that’s disappointing. Sounds like the natural transients are flattened out. I also have the Boss MS3 without issues. The MS3 is brilliant because it lets you integrate 3 your favorite analog drives with its built in digital multi-effects. I just thought the HX Effects would be nice for the tidy form factor without patch cables and power cords and supplies all over the place.
I don't understand why do you have tried to compare the sound of your overdrive straight to amp VS through the HX, by adding a short delay or reverb in the HX take. By doing that, there's no way to compare both takes... And of course, they will always sound different.
Cheers
The HX FX has two loops where you can plug in your favourite pedals and place them anywhere in the signal chain using the HX FX. This way I can switch really complex signal chains with just a single press of a button. I did explain that in the video :)
Oh and there's no delay on HX FX takes, it's exactly the same built in reverb on my Revv Dynamis.
@@CatPickStudios Oh! Ok... So it seems like the overdrive it's after the reverb in the chain. I mean, it sounds like the reverb is in front of the overrdrive in the effects loop... Could it be like this?
Revv Dynamis has a very unique reverb that sounds like there's some modulation and delay in as well. I suspect that is what you're hearing. I knew I was making a controversial video so I tried to make sure I get the technical side right :)
Odd - I've been using Line 6 Helix series stuff with Mesa, BlackStar, Vox and Marshall Amps (And with FRFR for modelling from Helix Floor) - and while I had to learn a few things (espeically with the Mesa, where the Gain controls the effects loop on some of those amps) -- I didn't have tone suck. Being careful with unity gain and adjustments with Global EQ smoothed out most of my problems. I was not using a buffer pedal - just decent quality cables. I think their stuff is solid. I've ditched my pedal board... well not ditched it, but it hasn't come out of storage in a while... The one thing I will say - is my patches sounded very different on different amps and I had to adjust and copy patches for each amp I was using. That's just the nature of this stuff though - amps behave differently --- FX loops are wired differently, some are tube controlled, some are transistor based. All in all, I have a few rigs that were worth the effort - and I'm not a huge effect guy... little delay on my leads, some chorus on my cleans, noise gate, and a boost in front of the amp, and sparingly some wah or auto wah.
I’m using the Helix HX with a Mesa Boogie JP2C in 4CM and it’s not changing the tone of the amp at all
Yeah mine might have been a faulty unit or maybe it just doesn’t work with all amps.
I just saw this. Your demo of the Dynamis is one big reason I got one for myself. I'd been using the MS-3 with it and two prior amps (in front of my old red knobs Fender Twin and in 4CM with a Katana head) and I of course used it in the Dynamis in 4 CM as well.
I was really getting tired of some of the limitations of the MS-3. Also, that unit is stagnating with no real updates in forever (or ever actually, it really never evolved). The reverbs are really bad and I never liked the drives although, with the Dynamis I don't care as it's red channel is the best gain channel I ever played in any amp I've owned. All this to say I'm very familiar with the unit... and the Dynamis.
So, I got the HX Effects this week and redid my board. I kept my Polytune 3 Mini tuner (first in the chain) which has a great buffer then I go through a small MIDI 4 loops switcher (G-Lab ML4, completely analog signal) then the input of the HX Effects. The G-Lab switcher is controlled by the HX Effects as it was by the MS-3 before and it holds my Ego compressor, Tumnus Deluxe and Boss SY-1. The rest of the connections is standard 4 CM connections.
I myself do not notice any more tone suck with the HX Effects than I did with the MS-3. If anything the signal is maybe a little better. I have the Dynamis loop send maxed and the HX inputs and loops all set to instrument level. Works well for me but I now have a pretty big learning curve ;)
Thanks for sharing! I wonder if the issues I had with my HX Effects were early unit problems that were fixed later. I've had the HX Stomp and now Pod Go and those seems to keep the signal intact really well.
I unfortunately don't have the Dynamis amp anymore I can't compare but your post made me miss that amp A LOT, so thanks. ;D
@@CatPickStudios It's quite possible! I really just got mine last week so cannot speak to what t it was like 2 or 3 years ago. Why did you let go of the Dynamis?
@@StephaneBergeronPixelyzed My family had a car breakage and with two kids you can't go anywhere without one here in Finland. Had to sell the amp to fund a new car. :/
@@CatPickStudios Understandable but sorry to hear that man! Hopefully, you have a good backup.
My backup as I mentioned in a previous comment is a Katana head which I really do not love. It had replaced my old trusty red knobs Fender Twin which I also mentioned and which I'd had forever. I did love that amp! Before the Dynamis, best clean tone I ever had! That amp died at our last pre pandemic gig in 2020. I paid peanuts for it in the 90s but had just invested quite a bit in a recap and retube and when it broke again, I decided that was it and I got the Katana as that was cheap and put aside money for the Dynamis.
add a dedicated buffer like a fender set level boost as the first pedal in your signal chain, you will won't lose tone using a four cable method that way.
I'm afraid it won't fix the loop on the HX Effects, because if I put a buffer before the Helix, there will be A/D/A conversion happening before the device sends signal to the loop of the amp. As I mentioned in the video, some people have gotten good results by putting a buffer right after the loop send of Helix.
Yeah I definitely think that you're capacitance is the problem. If you've added a lot more cables to your setup, that sound is going to change no matter what.
thanks; a great learning curve for me here... I use a red face spider with a bunch of boss pedals and am trying to work-out a 4 cable set-up for an amp or modeller in the near future... I have learnt a lot about buffer pedals now and here's a link for some others like myself who had no idea... imo line6 effects should have this sort of thing worked-out for users but there are as many who go for the long cable sounds so design for them and save a little?? I could hear clearly though no body would go for your situation; which was harsh due to a physical loss - or gain?? - of the signal by design of the unit; ie badly designed buffer system; I'm just imagining the line6 meeting for funnsies... I would though like to hear how the stomp worked out for you and how to set-up the helix to overcome said problems... th-cam.com/video/JSWqLuXUfnY/w-d-xo.html
so it's fine if I just go Guitar -> Hx Effects -> Amp? Also what benefits does it have to go through an effects loop? (Sorry, I'm a bit clueless to pedals and gear. Effect loops means you have 4 cable method right?)
Yeah going from HX to amp worked pretty well, there was minimal loss in tone. And I'd say most people use effects loop for delays and reverbs. The idea is that you're not sending delay or reverb into the front end of the amp if you're using amp gain. That way the delay and reverb get distorted by the preamp. When using those effects in the loop you're adding delay and reverb on the distorted sound on lot of people prefer that sound.
I've used delay and reverb both ways and you can get awesome sounding results with both. Really depends on what kind of sound you're going for. Hope this helps!
I run mine straight to the amp….never had any issues.
Just wondering if you changed the hx send and return settings from instrument to line level? Had the same issue and it sorted it out.
Thanks, I did try pretty much everything I could. Two years after this incident I'm a happy owner of HX Stomp so it all turned out well in the end.
6:08 thats a big of difference! Holy sh1t, I wont buy this pedal. Thanks for your review.
Happy to help! Many people haven't had any issues with the HX Effects me and my friend have. Might be amp related or we just had two faulty units. Not sure.
Has anybody figured out how to save more than six effects at once? It's not in the manual.
So... which digital pedalboard (of any brand) is the best option in replacement of this model in terms of quality? (considering a similar price)
I recenlty got an HX Stomp and that seems to work great with my amps. That's one good option.
@@CatPickStudios Thanks for your answer!
I think the hx dislikes your amp
Maybe. Every other pedal I've tried with it works great, so I lean on blaming the HX, not the amp.
Mine did not have the issue but line 6 did find a solution to the issue
What was the solution?
I listened to what you had going on. Based on what you wanted to achieve you should have used Guitar -> Your Drive Pedals -> Front of Amp then Amp effects out into HXE -> HXE out to Amp effects return. I have to agree with the power wart. That thing is beyond help.
What if it's hooked up only through the effects loop with 2 cables?
It will probably work just fine.
@@CatPickStudios I know it would work, I meant would it cut in on the amp tone since the guitar would be straight in the amp instead of how you had it into the processor in both setups.
@@MikeGTR I'm afraid I don't know. I had issues with my unit and my amp, but other people have had great experiences with the HX Effects. Get it from a place with a good return policy so you can test it with your own setup and see if it works.
Same for me, HX effects kill the tone.
Are you sure that the HX Stomp work well??
I had HX Stomp for a while and it worked great with my REVV D20. Maybe there's something different hardware wise with the HX Effects.
I have the Line 6 M9 on one of my boards and that has the same problem, That's why I put it in a Lehle loopswitcher. So I can bypass the M9 when not in use...
You would think they would have fixed that issue by now, but apparently not. Or at least not on the HX Effects.
I have M9 and I use vit with a high quality buffer in front, true bypass mode. No issue with toneloss
So all it takes is one buffered pedal before it and you can ditch the TB loop
If you're listening this through your speakerphone (which is never an HD quality sounding speaker). Your comment is invalid. There was a very tiny difference in sound quality that I've heard but ots not even that big of an issue.
So are you saying that because you're not hearing much difference listening on your phone it means the difference is insignificant? Or did I understand something wrong?
@@CatPickStudios I read a comment that someone was using there speakerphone to listen on the sound difference of the pedal. I find that very inaccurate. You should be using a decent set of speakers so you can actually hear the difference. And write a more accruate review. Thats what I mean.
@@BrentW19 Ah yes, now I got it. I have friends who do bass guitar videos and they get comments from people saying the bass guitar doesn't sound good through their phone... People are weird.
@@CatPickStudios yes they are lol
@@CatPickStudios Hearing a great piece of music on a phone and thinking that you actually heard it is about the same as viewing a great work of visual art on your phone and thinking you've actually seen it. Thanks for the review too...
Traded mine for a 5150 II head.
Your intro sounds a little like Blind Melon's "Galaxie"
Haha interesting, need to check out that song.
I tried with Mesa Mark V and was getting a lot of extra noise with the HX, a lot of hiss.
Yeah a friend of mine had the same issues and ended up returning his unit.
I hate the hum in the hx stomp
Maybe a faulty unit?
The problem of Line6 ... Never again this brand will be on my pedalboard since I had and sold the M5.
what's wrong with the M5?
Did you put it in analogue bypass mode? - it comes out the box in dsp buffered mode
Yeah I tried that too. Apparently the other Helix units have some sort of impedance adjustments available, we'll be trying those out at some point. Maybe that will make a difference.
@@CatPickStudios Thanks for making this video, I was considering this unit and you have made me think twice about buying it in terms of tone - I have heard that the fractal fx8 is proper true bypass - shame there are no UK fractal dealers!
@@JamesBrown-ef4nc Yeah Fractal stuff is a no go here in Finland as well, no proper way to even test anything. :/
Good and useful, as per usual, and it makes all the sense. I hear the difference clearly. For once, you're reviewing something that's not on my list of things I consider buying, but it had to happen eventually, right? ;)
I'm pretty sure it will only happen this one time and then our fates are aligned again! ;)
My thought exactly, but you probably knew that already. xD
Wait! Did you say the problem of your HX effects is using other pedal to loop and send back it distroy the sound?? And then you have to send back because of that? Lol
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean? The loop is there so you can integrate your pedals into the HX FX.
Hi,
don’t know if this can help you, but it seems like some units were faulty.
There’s a thread on the Line6 official forum about this issue: line6.com/support/topic/32964-hx-effects-audio-artifacts/
I don’t have the HX Effects so I can’t really tell if that’s the case, but maybe this can help you or other users who are watching your video gathering pre-purchase info (like me lol).
Cheers
Thanks! I've heard many people have had hardware issues with the Helix range, my friends included. Not sure if mine was faulty or not. I decided just to return it because the store I got it from is pretty bad at this stuff and I didn't want to spend time dealing with it.
That’s corksniffing at its finest. And also you’re bitching about using a Flashback delay? You don’t need it at all with the Line 6!
Ok cool.
I've found line 6 products underwhelming, and poorly made for, since they came out. Necessary evil, i think for most users. No quality control, but there are always people lining up to making praiseworthy videos in an effort to get something for free i guess(free gear, namm gig or ???)
Honest videos, with knowlege gained from time spent with a unit, are rare.
Nice rant that has very little to do with this video. I bought the unit with my own money and posted my own honest (slightly negative) opinion.
@@CatPickStudios I think you didn't understand, he's saying you did a rare, honest video when other people are making fake "good reviews" to get free gear, i guess since english is not your first language, it's ok, he was just saying you're honest and it's rare ^^
Here is the solution for your "super high power adapter" issue beneath your pedalboard: open Amazon and type in "good connections euro verlängerung". That's it. I've placed all that you mentioned beneath a super tiny and flat board myself. Yes, tone suck is ALWAYS an issue. I've tested every looper on the planet and every FX unit from analog to digital with every cable length. People who say that the gigrig or other units do not change tone just don't listen like others do. Even a mere stomp box (Yes, even those that say true bypass) change tone. I CAN hear it. There are ways to minimize this but it will be ALWAYS not the same as if you plug straight into the amp input with a short high quality cable. We have to live with this.
Thanks for the power supply suggestion. And I agree, everything affects everything and with pedalboards it’s really about minimizing how much the pedals and cables affect the end result. With this particular unit there was too much obvious loss that I just wasn’t happy with and that’s why I ended up letting it go.
Damn, Helix turned it to mud.
Shitty buffer build in the effect unit. It's a shame, because the quality of the effects Is impressive. They should change the buffer or make It true bypass.
Yep. Wish they paid more attention to the hardware side, the sounds and effects were great.
@@CatPickStudios line6 Is not new to this kind of issues. The DL6 delay unit, for example, has very massive tone suck and they never fixed It and there Is an hardware mode to fix It out there...
You can run this in a 2 cable mode to the effects loop of the amp for your delays and reverbs and a few others ..... and plug the guitar into the amp like normal.....like this video th-cam.com/video/6zqYhRvZgxo/w-d-xo.html
Yeah but the problem was that even when doing just that it was causing tone loss. Could also be the amp's fault, but at the time of shooting this video I decided to prioritise the amp over the HX FX.
How dare you
Oh I dare.
The helix sounds fine in general, but in reality all it's doing is modelling pedals/amps and it's not as good as the real thing, so i think it's better to stay with pedals. Also, people can talk about how practical it is..fair enough, but if a pedal or cable breaks, you can just swap it over for something else. If your Helix decides to break on you, you have lost your entire rig basically. Imagine being halfway through a tour and your Helix goes kaput? - At least i know if my Delay pedal or drive pedal or a patch cable died on me, i could get one in the next city for fairly cheap that will do the job and take me a minute to swap it over. So a Helix might be practical in theory, but when you weigh it all up, it's really not. I do think they are a good bit of gear, but i'd rather make a tiny bit more effort to take my real pedalboard for peace of mind.
I don't know that i really get the logic here. If you are talking about the Helix and not the HX effects and it were to fail...that would be more akin to your Amp going. if you are talking about the HX effects...it would be a single pedal. Where when you have a traditional board and something goes, there can be a fair amount of trouble shooting to find the problem. depending on the board and how you have it wired up, you are going to have to figure out if it's a bad cable somewhere or an actual pedal that went. if you have more than a few pedals that can be a nightmare. people are using these units because they are actually more reliable and consistent than a tube amp and pedal rig and far more portable. if you have the preference to use a traditional board and amp that is fantastic and full power to it. But line 6 stuff is generally as accessible around the world as anything. if it were to go out mid tour in comparison to certain amp rigs, it's probably easier to replace. added bonus is you can back up pre-dialed in rigs and tones and have them saved on a thumb drive. really depends on your needs. i toured and gig with a traditional rig for years and this year i've been using a helix and the helix has been far more dependable and consistent. They aren't for everybody though and that's fine.