Congrats on the baby. Get a stroller that can hold baby and bag then give mom some breaks. Then you'll have someone to bounce form change ideas off of...
Engineer here: Does moving the mass of the disc away from the center change the disc behavior? Absolutely. Moving mass further away from the center increases the angular moment of inertia. Here's the thing about that, though: The larger the moment of inertia, the slower a disc will accelerate about its axis of rotation. So for a given amount of power, a disc may hold its spin longer, but it will ALSO have less spin to begin with for the exact same reason. Doth Savek has a great video about this. So does Gyro tech have an effect? Yes. Does it have a tangible, provable BENEFIT? No. MVP likes to claim that Gyro makes discs "better", but their claims also tend to be a bit contradictory and if Gyro is "better", then Streamline is a subpar product, by MVP's own claims. See Overthrow's interview with an MVP rep to count how many times he says that Gyro is "better" (lots), then count how many definite, provable claims he makes that are backed up with data (zero). Does MVP make great discs? Absolutely. My bag is 70% MVP/Axiom/Streamline because their stuff is good, not because it's Gyro.
True! Didn't think about how it wouldn't accelerate as fast! And yeah, I think some people are too focused on the Gyro tech and overlook the fact that they are just great discs! regardless of the "tech" in them!
Glad you liked the crave. The real beauty of the crave is that you can find them in variety of stabilities for us mortal throwers and the stable ones can be crushed super far. Like I only have craves (and one resistor for the wind and annie flexes) all the way up till 9 speeds in my fairway selection. I could make a deep dive into the plastics but the general rule I've experienced is simply that the domier (and obviously the more heavy weight) the crave, the more stable it's gonna be so you can have one that's straight to stable, just laser beam, straight to understable and cycle the understability all the way to a easy roller. Now it's easier to find domy ones in certain plastics and the most consistent is the cosmic neutron, the biggest yet rarest domes I find are on the protons. Sarah Hokom signature neutrons are usually the straightest for me and generally I think the plasma ones are usually the most understable. But in the end the dominess I believe it's the most decisive factor. The Fission plastic is really a odd one out to me (love the fission insanity tho). They usually just fly a little different. They tend to hang in the air a little longer which gives them distance potential but I just really feel other plastics are more reliable. Also they do make the fission ones in max weights and I know that might be confusing to some but the thing is the weight is (probably) in the overmold not the microbubble core as the whole point of fission is to get more out of the overmold technology. And finally talking about the overmold tech itself there is a term "gyro push" meaning the fact that they have more forward push in comparison to non overmold discs thus they usually go straighter for longer period of time. But the counter factor here that I believe holds the gyro from going noticeable further than non gyro is the fact that because of the heavier rim. once the speed and rotation starts slowing down the discs drop faster to the ground when the fade kicks in. This also the reason I would never go full gyro because a glidier softer finish has it's uses and it's all about using the right tools for the right job on the course.
That's good to hear that there are some plastics that are more stable with the Crave! I will have to check them out! I love this Crave I got... But a slightly more stable one would pair so well with it!
The cosmic neutron ones are the safest bet for additional stability(they are not overstable by any mean). Usually applies to the other molds as well. There's also been previous glow crave runs. I wish they'd make more. Haven't got any but what I've seen they are probably the most stable run although being flat. Might even be close to a resistors, which I mentioned before and would also be worth a try they are basically just flat craves with higher parting line. Mini fireballs if you will, slower and way more controllable tho. Also if the craves just wont do then the mvp servo is the next in line basically and some prefer them over craves. I never even tested them I just freaking love the craves lol.
Congrats on your son. My own boy is four and a half, and we have been going out to play together for a year now. 62 rounds together in Udisc. I hope your kid loves disc golf as much as mine does. Makes for a great time together.
Recently started checking local shops to support local shops... Blew my mind how often I'd find sharp edges on multiple brands. MVP/Axiom/Streamline consistently had the nicest feeling edges store to store. Rim depth is often comfy for me. More gyro content plz. Congrats on kid.
Congrats on your kid, Apollo! I'm expecting mine later this summer. I love how you gave your assessment about gyro at the 8 minute mark but later said you'd replace your echo star Teebird and profess your love for the Uplink later in the video. I know the feeling all too well. The more you throw gyro the more you'll love it. I think the gyro does make a difference on slower speed discs. I typically throw -1,2 and 0,2 stability discs on slower speed discs and they go straighter longer. My Octanes go about as far as my Destroyers on max distance lines, but I have to throw them differently. If I released both flat, which I prefer, the Destroyers will hook up quicker and lose distance in comparison. Because they go straighter, you can take a more direct line toward the basket. As for form, dude your form was pretty clean when i watched you in the Creator's cup. I think the only thing I would change is to slow your backswing so it peaks when your front foot touches. I wouldn't mess with it too much other than that. Best of luck, man!
Dave Dunipace has a video talking about some of the early experimental discs they made to test the idea of a heavy rim and light flight plate. He said nothing actually turned out to increase distance.
I’ve been working 2 discs this winter and finding what you and some others have found in that 1, they don’t magically go much farther 2, they do fly different and tend to go straighter longer before the fade which is almost as much of their marketing as plain father 3, these can be just plain great discs for people in their own way. A few years ago I got one and it did nothing special for me. Now that I’m a better and understand my throws and discs much better now I am able to use these for certain situations just like my other discs. Congratulations on the baby. I’m gonna miss seeing you so much the next 16 years 😉.
As an MVP fan from before James Conrad hit the Holy Shot or Simon Lizotte signed on, what really seemed to draw people in was a) consistency from run to run; a Tesla is a Tesla is a Tesla, b) good plastics made clean with no flashings etc., and c) they have historically done a great job of engaging with their fan base; back in the time before covid they used to have an annual event at their HQ for the fans and everything. And, they have some really sweet molds too. Reactor's the best mid ever made, Envy's amazing, and the Crave is supremely good.
They might not have a ton of flashing, but they do have those injection points on the rim that may bother some people! And I will have to test out the consistency to see for myself 👀
mvp plastic variety is amazing! they are making new runs of prism with more molds, that plastic uses the clear proton plastic to mold the edge instead of the softer usual blend. they look awesome and can be full of sparkles
Heritage Park is my home course and I can let everyone know that you might not have played well for the video but it is a 'You have to hit your line course.' Which is a great demonstration of Gyro. I hope you retry this video in a month when everything is nice and Green there and you really have to be dialed in.
The thing with the science of Gyro is that, while, yes, it could theoretically hold spin longer-it doesn't in an appreciable way because the rim mass is barely more than in single-mold discs-it also limits the absolute level of spin a disc can achieve by requiring higher torque to get the mass spinning. If the extra mass were enough to have a huge effect, Gyro stuff would be borderline-unthrowable for anybody but the elite-level spin monsters. All that said, the MVP plastic is nice and I don't begrudge anybody liking their discs if they work for them. The overmold is anecdotally more durable than most single-mold stuff, too. I haven't found the Gyro disc that works better than something else for my game at this point, though.
Yeah, I agree. I don't think the Gyro makes that much of a difference if anything... If you throw these discs, you should be throwing them because they are great molds... not because they are Gyro!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Exactly. I get that they kinda can't step away from the supposed reason for the overmold, but I wish they would emphasize some other benefits, like increased rim durability and the shared cores allowing more efficient production.
I Conan attest to that, I have three kids and it’s not easy to play quality golf while pushing a stroller and entertaining a toddler. The secrete is to enjoy anytime you are out there, don’t get down on your play and when you bring the kids out you are done as soon as they are. One day you will get a full round in with one of your kids and it will be incredible.
Congratulations on being a new Dad. There are things more important than disc golf. You're probably not getting a lot of unbroken sleep. That's hard on a guy. You'll be fine. The kid is the most important thing. Be there. :)
My very first 2 Gyro discs were the R2 ION and the Neutron Hex and they are still to this day my favorite 2 discs in my bag. I originally bought MVP for the gyro but have stayed for the molds. I have 5 craves at this point and as my distance has increased I’ve realized they are more understable than the numbers suggest. I have a uplink as well and it’s great. The only disc I haven’t liked is the Streamline Stabilizer (very Zone-like in numbers) but I can’t get a clean release with it. I throw my craves and Teebirds together and they both go about the same distance, I just use them for different throws.
It is tough. Spring rolls around and we have lots of things that we want to work on but we are so rusty as well. It looked like you had a nice day to throw discs. I can't wait for the snow to leave and for the ground to dry up a bit. I don't suppose your free shipping over $50 is for us Canadians eh? I think the thing about gyro is that you need lots of spin to make the gyro effect make any difference. I don't throw gyro for the "tech".
I'm sorry, right now the free shipping is just for the states. But yeah, people should throw these discs for the great discs! Not for the Gyro on it...
I've been bagging mostly gyro for the last couple of years now. I think of the Crave as a longer Buzzz. If you want a great Teebird kind of disc, check out the TSA Votum. It's perfect.
Yeah, I have tried the votum! I really like it! It's like a straighter Teebird with a more comfortable rim! But I have heard that their plastic beats up pretty quick? But I haven't thrown them long enough to experience that!
@@ApolloDiscGolf TSA plastic is made by mvp, so it should wear slowly. I've had my Votum like a year and it hasn't changed much. But I also don't throw super far.
@@denniswebster1048 I don't have a Crave in cosmic neutron, but I have an Insanity in it and it's definitely and easily noticeably more stable than my neutron or fission ones. The most overstable one by a huge margin is the eclipse one however. I don't know if they make an eclipse Crave, but I could see that being a great disc.
Congratulations on your new son. Mine got me addicted to disc golf and we play often. A glow Envy, neutron Servo, cosmic neutron Volt, fission Wave, and plasma Tenacity have found their way into my bag from the Gyropalooza box I got for Christmas.
You've got to ease up on yourself, you began the match in the wrong headspace and reinforced that negative self talk with every "mistake" just ease up, go with the flow and have fun. That's what the game is all about😊
To be honest I don't even know what the glide number on the Jay is 😂 I just know that the Jay pushes forward and flies very far with a forward pushing fade! One of the farther flying mid-ranges I have thrown!
Too cool. I just picked up an ion. so underrated as a thrower and a putter. Envy is worth the hype, but so versatile in its different plastics. Crave is great, but I recommend the proton plastic for their fairways. I've had a volt and an insanity in the bag since before the boom... always consistent. Just picked up a trace in neutron, and it's more stable than a wraith, which is good because I hope to beat it in like a wraith
Oh yeah... the Envy is worth every bit of the hype it gets... I understand if people think its too shallow... But you can't deny what a great throwing putter it is!
@@ApolloDiscGolf I’ve only thrown the Conrad Envy, but my friend has a proton Envy that feels deeper! PS you should totally get a Fireball. Been my go-to in the slot for 3 years. It has a lot of glide
Honestly I think the real appeal for MVP is that they have some of the best putters and mids in the game. Also they have the glitch and who doesn't want to throw a glitch.
I like some of their putters and mids, but their faster discs are too flat for me and the rims are so shallow that I get a lot of early releases. They feel pretty good for sidearm though.
In my experience, the extra spin is noticeable. My gyro discs always seemed to hold more energy as they hit the ground and have bigger/more skips. I'm excited for MVP as a company moving forward now that they have Simon. He already teased a throwing robot to compare different discs and I think a scientific approach to improving discs is great for the sport. I'd love to see them combine gyro with textures like Latitude 64's discontinued Missilen and Raketen as well!
Yeah, seeing a Robot throw them would be interesting! But at the same time... would that matter when a robot is not throwing the discs for you during your round? Inconsistent humans are throwing them... So how much would that really matter? Just some food for thought!
@@ApolloDiscGolf I think the main driver behind it is to get some more objectivity on flight numbers. Everyone will throw the disc a bit differently, but it would be nice to make things more accurate across brands.
Congratulations on the son! I have two boys, 3 and 5, and this is my home course! I pushed my youngest around in a stroller at Heritage for many rounds. Some of the best times of my life! If you're looking for some help with your channel/store hit me up and we can chat!
Ah, man! I retract my statements and unsubscribe... Kidding 😁 I can't wait until the windy season here in KC subsides. Windy golf can be fun, but we get long stretches of it!
Real world: Gyro for sure has slow speed discs hold off their fade for longer. Example: I throw a Ion hard and the fade is soooo much late than expected. It just keeps pushing forward.
Congrats on the Kid! I had a drop off in my game too when my Duaghter was little. Not as much time to play, tired as hell....ect. Probably a really bad time to mess with form TBH. Wait until they're old enough where you can at least sleep normally. 🤣
@Apollo Disc Golf I did the same thing when my daughter was born. Quickly found out it's quite possibly the worst time to make form tweaks as I'm so tired I can't even really concentrate anyway....🤣 Luckily, that phase passes soon enough.
There are a lot of good things to be said about MVP's Gyro-discs. I went for a complete MVP/Axiom bag last year, BUT there are two BIG concerns: for the first, the availibilty here in Scandinavia is a catastrophy and for the second, their Gyro rims, especially with discs faster than speed 5 does NOT survive any long. Here in Norway we have to deal with tons of rocks. It took me five month to totally ruin my beloved Craves and Insanitys. Big pieces just break out of the rims. I have never seen that by any other company before.
Congratulations! Have you thrown the proxy? Really hoped you would have tried it out. I think it might challenge my Pure. Good content again. Keep it coming 👍
Conjecture about gyro rims making the discs far farther or straighter be damned. I buy MVP/Axiom/Streamline because they have fantastic molds and plenty of them.
Lol, I did not... Didn't love the feel in the hand, and I wasn't throwing well, and with the wind this day... I didn't feel confident enough throwing that disc... I probably would have just turned it over every time 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf Not trying to be mean or anything. Just saying that in a sport and business where things go "far" and you are comparing distances, knowing the difference between "further" and "farther" might be important. And yes, there is a difference. One is for physical distances "that disc went farther than this other one". One is for figurative "lets further the discussion on Gyro tech". You can't farther a conversation, nor throw further than anyone. Anyway, keep up the good work.
I occasionally play Waterworks! But it's about 30 minutes from me... so when I film I normally go to somewhere closer... and just the way the course plays it makes it hard to show disc flights and test new discs because you really have to know your discs and hit your angles right to play that course well 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf it is definitely a tuff course. It usually eats a few discs because of my inaccuracy. If you ever find your self further north Atchison Kansas has two amazing courses . Jackson park is one of my favorites. Lots of elevation and trees
@@ApolloDiscGolf it's worth the trip . It's a cute town with good history and disc golf courses. And when your little one gets older they have a good splash pad play ground
Congrats on the kiddo. Welcome to the dark side. Disc golf down under channel has all the info you need to learn about MVP. Crave is better for flat to slight anny flex shots. Rhythm is good good for hyzer flip. Uplink is money. If you want something faster, the Ascend is so good.
Yeah, but that wasn't consistent for Drew if I remember correctly... And you can argue that you would need consistent throws to truly test them... But at the same time, humans are throwing these discs in tourneys... Not robots... So inconsistent throws are going to happen all the time! So how often will you really have that advantage where you can say it was the gyro and not just the disc selection, release angle, spin, power, etc on the throw?
Yeah... 😂 But thought I would include it in the lineup because it's made by the same company and people have been telling me to try it for some time now! Luckily I didn't throw it much 😂
In my experience the gyro seems to make a slight difference in lower speed discs. The gyro mids and fairways I have really seem to go farther than the others that I bag. I don’t have the arm to try the high speed discs so it doesn’t matter what I throw when it comes to that lol.
I suspect it is all hype. Not necessarily in theory, but in practice. It's a question of how much does this particular choice of materials and overshot construction actually increase the moment of inertia. It's a simple question. You can measure it experimentally. Now here's where it gets interesting. I asked MVP's VP of marketing for a breakdown of the moment of inertias of their discs. He said "That's a trade secret". Utterly ridiculous. Imagine if I tried to sell you a sports car and said it has the best power weight ratio on the market, and then you said "Cool, how much power does it produce and how much does it weigh?" and I said "That's a secret." Utterly ridiculous. So then I asked him if they even knew the moments of inertia for their various discs. Of course he insisted they did. Make of this what you will, but my guess is that 1. Yes they do know the moments of inertia of their own discs. 2. Their overshot molding barely increases the moment of inertia because there isn't enough volume and density differential to work with. (I could be wrong, but like I said, I asked them and couldn't get a straight answer.) 3. If you knew how little the "gyro technology" actually mattered you might not buy their stuff. 4. None of this matters because everyone knows a good disc when they throw it and there are plenty of good gyro discs out there that people should enjoy throwing regardless of the marketing mumbo-jumbo.
Yeah, I think if it does have a big difference on the disc, it's so small you can't notice... It's really the good molds that you should be focused on... not the gyro tech! They make some great molds!
Yeah! It's such a strange course like that! Like this course is not too hard to shoot -6... even on longs.. But also very easy for the same person to go +10 if you are just barely off 😂
@@chuckwalla123 Yeah I have played Centennial Park quite a bit! I really enjoy that course! I almost won the Centennial Clash back in like 2015-2016... Or something like that.... I don't remember the exact name... Lost it in a playoff 😫 I have also heard good things about Longview? is that the other course out there? Or are you thinking of two completely different courses? 😂
TRUE! So I guess they just claim to have "more" of it... That could also be why companies are making the discs larger in diameter? to give it a touch more gyroscopic force? idk, just a guess!
I've gotta think that the science behind gyro would be a little divisive among the community. From a physics perspective, someone throwing with less spin would possible have different results from someone who puts a lot of spin on their throws. Personally, I think the tech is cool and beneficial (even slightly) overall, but none of the molds have managed to stay in my bag 😬
Yeah, the Gyro tech is meh to me! I'm indifferent about it.. But I do like their molds! Like the Envy is a great throwing putter and the Crave is solid!
![The BEST Disc Drop OF THE YEAR [So Far]??? | 18 Holes](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WvgrPQeWroE/mqdefault.jpg)
Those feet to meter conversions are so amazing. I love it that you do it for us non freedom unit users.
Congrats on the baby. Get a stroller that can hold baby and bag then give mom some breaks. Then you'll have someone to bounce form change ideas off of...
😂
More than the distance, it’s the consistent flight paths (anhyzer lines and pronounced low-speed fade lines, especially) that make Gyro desirable.
Engineer here: Does moving the mass of the disc away from the center change the disc behavior? Absolutely. Moving mass further away from the center increases the angular moment of inertia. Here's the thing about that, though: The larger the moment of inertia, the slower a disc will accelerate about its axis of rotation. So for a given amount of power, a disc may hold its spin longer, but it will ALSO have less spin to begin with for the exact same reason. Doth Savek has a great video about this.
So does Gyro tech have an effect? Yes.
Does it have a tangible, provable BENEFIT? No. MVP likes to claim that Gyro makes discs "better", but their claims also tend to be a bit contradictory and if Gyro is "better", then Streamline is a subpar product, by MVP's own claims. See Overthrow's interview with an MVP rep to count how many times he says that Gyro is "better" (lots), then count how many definite, provable claims he makes that are backed up with data (zero).
Does MVP make great discs? Absolutely. My bag is 70% MVP/Axiom/Streamline because their stuff is good, not because it's Gyro.
True! Didn't think about how it wouldn't accelerate as fast! And yeah, I think some people are too focused on the Gyro tech and overlook the fact that they are just great discs! regardless of the "tech" in them!
Most discs have gyro .. it’s not exclusive to mvp. They just marketed it.
Love the Trace! The Insanity is also a fantastic understable fairway. it starts as a more stable disc and turns into a bomber
insanity is like a mvp valk that just glides for days :)
Glad you liked the crave. The real beauty of the crave is that you can find them in variety of stabilities for us mortal throwers and the stable ones can be crushed super far. Like I only have craves (and one resistor for the wind and annie flexes) all the way up till 9 speeds in my fairway selection. I could make a deep dive into the plastics but the general rule I've experienced is simply that the domier (and obviously the more heavy weight) the crave, the more stable it's gonna be so you can have one that's straight to stable, just laser beam, straight to understable and cycle the understability all the way to a easy roller.
Now it's easier to find domy ones in certain plastics and the most consistent is the cosmic neutron, the biggest yet rarest domes I find are on the protons. Sarah Hokom signature neutrons are usually the straightest for me and generally I think the plasma ones are usually the most understable. But in the end the dominess I believe it's the most decisive factor.
The Fission plastic is really a odd one out to me (love the fission insanity tho). They usually just fly a little different. They tend to hang in the air a little longer which gives them distance potential but I just really feel other plastics are more reliable. Also they do make the fission ones in max weights and I know that might be confusing to some but the thing is the weight is (probably) in the overmold not the microbubble core as the whole point of fission is to get more out of the overmold technology.
And finally talking about the overmold tech itself there is a term "gyro push" meaning the fact that they have more forward push in comparison to non overmold discs thus they usually go straighter for longer period of time. But the counter factor here that I believe holds the gyro from going noticeable further than non gyro is the fact that because of the heavier rim. once the speed and rotation starts slowing down the discs drop faster to the ground when the fade kicks in. This also the reason I would never go full gyro because a glidier softer finish has it's uses and it's all about using the right tools for the right job on the course.
That's good to hear that there are some plastics that are more stable with the Crave! I will have to check them out! I love this Crave I got... But a slightly more stable one would pair so well with it!
The cosmic neutron ones are the safest bet for additional stability(they are not overstable by any mean). Usually applies to the other molds as well. There's also been previous glow crave runs. I wish they'd make more. Haven't got any but what I've seen they are probably the most stable run although being flat. Might even be close to a resistors, which I mentioned before and would also be worth a try they are basically just flat craves with higher parting line. Mini fireballs if you will, slower and way more controllable tho. Also if the craves just wont do then the mvp servo is the next in line basically and some prefer them over craves. I never even tested them I just freaking love the craves lol.
Congrats on your son. My own boy is four and a half, and we have been going out to play together for a year now. 62 rounds together in Udisc. I hope your kid loves disc golf as much as mine does. Makes for a great time together.
That sounds like a blast! I hope he picks up disc golf when he grows up!
Recently started checking local shops to support local shops... Blew my mind how often I'd find sharp edges on multiple brands. MVP/Axiom/Streamline consistently had the nicest feeling edges store to store. Rim depth is often comfy for me. More gyro content plz. Congrats on kid.
Yeah I definitely want to try out more!
Congrats on your kid, Apollo! I'm expecting mine later this summer. I love how you gave your assessment about gyro at the 8 minute mark but later said you'd replace your echo star Teebird and profess your love for the Uplink later in the video. I know the feeling all too well. The more you throw gyro the more you'll love it.
I think the gyro does make a difference on slower speed discs. I typically throw -1,2 and 0,2 stability discs on slower speed discs and they go straighter longer. My Octanes go about as far as my Destroyers on max distance lines, but I have to throw them differently. If I released both flat, which I prefer, the Destroyers will hook up quicker and lose distance in comparison. Because they go straighter, you can take a more direct line toward the basket.
As for form, dude your form was pretty clean when i watched you in the Creator's cup. I think the only thing I would change is to slow your backswing so it peaks when your front foot touches. I wouldn't mess with it too much other than that. Best of luck, man!
Yeah, I am skeptical about the Gyro tech.. But the molds are fantastic! Legit thinking about working the Crave into my bag.. We will see!
Dave Dunipace has a video talking about some of the early experimental discs they made to test the idea of a heavy rim and light flight plate. He said nothing actually turned out to increase distance.
Both the Crave and the Insanity are excellent forehand discs. My experience has been that gyro discs seem to be more resistant to off-axis torque.
I can see that with a lot of the MVP discs! especially since most of them are fairly shallow compared to other companies!
That’s been my experience too.
As long as you can snap it to reach it’s desired speed it’s reaches it’s “gyro”scopic stability faster.
I’ve been working 2 discs this winter and finding what you and some others have found in that 1, they don’t magically go much farther 2, they do fly different and tend to go straighter longer before the fade which is almost as much of their marketing as plain father 3, these can be just plain great discs for people in their own way. A few years ago I got one and it did nothing special for me. Now that I’m a better and understand my throws and discs much better now I am able to use these for certain situations just like my other discs. Congratulations on the baby. I’m gonna miss seeing you so much the next 16 years 😉.
As an MVP fan from before James Conrad hit the Holy Shot or Simon Lizotte signed on, what really seemed to draw people in was a) consistency from run to run; a Tesla is a Tesla is a Tesla, b) good plastics made clean with no flashings etc., and c) they have historically done a great job of engaging with their fan base; back in the time before covid they used to have an annual event at their HQ for the fans and everything.
And, they have some really sweet molds too. Reactor's the best mid ever made, Envy's amazing, and the Crave is supremely good.
They might not have a ton of flashing, but they do have those injection points on the rim that may bother some people! And I will have to test out the consistency to see for myself 👀
But yeah... their molds are GREAT!
mvp plastic variety is amazing! they are making new runs of prism with more molds, that plastic uses the clear proton plastic to mold the edge instead of the softer usual blend. they look awesome and can be full of sparkles
Love the video! I’m sure that it was pretty frustrating, but seeing the “human” side of content creators is really nice
Heritage Park is my home course and I can let everyone know that you might not have played well for the video but it is a 'You have to hit your line course.' Which is a great demonstration of Gyro. I hope you retry this video in a month when everything is nice and Green there and you really have to be dialed in.
Yeah Heritage is super fun! I just decided to make it not fun 😂
Congratulations on your new baby!
Thank you! 🙌
Lol!
Glad I’m not the only person that goes off the rails in a round 😅
It was a rough day for sure… and reliving it in the edit… woof! 😂
Fission is the light weight plastic
Yeah, that's what Anthony said these Craves were... But this was 173g... Do they make heavier weights at all in their Fission plastic?
The thing with the science of Gyro is that, while, yes, it could theoretically hold spin longer-it doesn't in an appreciable way because the rim mass is barely more than in single-mold discs-it also limits the absolute level of spin a disc can achieve by requiring higher torque to get the mass spinning. If the extra mass were enough to have a huge effect, Gyro stuff would be borderline-unthrowable for anybody but the elite-level spin monsters.
All that said, the MVP plastic is nice and I don't begrudge anybody liking their discs if they work for them. The overmold is anecdotally more durable than most single-mold stuff, too. I haven't found the Gyro disc that works better than something else for my game at this point, though.
Yeah, I agree. I don't think the Gyro makes that much of a difference if anything... If you throw these discs, you should be throwing them because they are great molds... not because they are Gyro!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Exactly. I get that they kinda can't step away from the supposed reason for the overmold, but I wish they would emphasize some other benefits, like increased rim durability and the shared cores allowing more efficient production.
I Conan attest to that, I have three kids and it’s not easy to play quality golf while pushing a stroller and entertaining a toddler. The secrete is to enjoy anytime you are out there, don’t get down on your play and when you bring the kids out you are done as soon as they are. One day you will get a full round in with one of your kids and it will be incredible.
Yeah, I hope he enjoys disc golf! That would be a blast!
I just had a son on March 2nd, so I definitely understand the lack of being able to play and play getting inconsistent! Congrats and enjoy it!
Oh yeah, it’s a blast! Starting to feel normal again 😂
Congratulations on being a new Dad. There are things more important than disc golf. You're probably not getting a lot of unbroken sleep. That's hard on a guy. You'll be fine. The kid is the most important thing. Be there. :)
Congratulations Daddy David !!!
Welcome to the"Show" mine is about to start University.
Thank you! Glad to be here! 😎
My very first 2 Gyro discs were the R2 ION and the Neutron Hex and they are still to this day my favorite 2 discs in my bag. I originally bought MVP for the gyro but have stayed for the molds. I have 5 craves at this point and as my distance has increased I’ve realized they are more understable than the numbers suggest. I have a uplink as well and it’s great. The only disc I haven’t liked is the Streamline Stabilizer (very Zone-like in numbers) but I can’t get a clean release with it. I throw my craves and Teebirds together and they both go about the same distance, I just use them for different throws.
Yeah, I am honestly thinking of going Craves and Teebirds for my fairways! That seems like a solid combo!
It is tough. Spring rolls around and we have lots of things that we want to work on but we are so rusty as well. It looked like you had a nice day to throw discs. I can't wait for the snow to leave and for the ground to dry up a bit.
I don't suppose your free shipping over $50 is for us Canadians eh?
I think the thing about gyro is that you need lots of spin to make the gyro effect make any difference. I don't throw gyro for the "tech".
I'm sorry, right now the free shipping is just for the states. But yeah, people should throw these discs for the great discs! Not for the Gyro on it...
@@ApolloDiscGolf gyro also donated 90 discs to a new Canadian disc golf committee. Not that I am bias or anything but.
Congratulations on the new addition to your family 🎊
Thank you! 🙌
Congrats on the son. The dad power that Simon got is no doubt coming your way.
I sure hope I get the Dad power Simon got! 🙌
A baby in the house and you're messing around with your form!! (that's a bold move, cotton)
Yeah... 😂
Sweet shot at 5:02 let's go !! 👍
Threaded the needle! 💪💪
I've been bagging mostly gyro for the last couple of years now. I think of the Crave as a longer Buzzz. If you want a great Teebird kind of disc, check out the TSA Votum. It's perfect.
Yeah, I have tried the votum! I really like it! It's like a straighter Teebird with a more comfortable rim!
But I have heard that their plastic beats up pretty quick? But I haven't thrown them long enough to experience that!
@@ApolloDiscGolf TSA plastic is made by mvp, so it should wear slowly. I've had my Votum like a year and it hasn't changed much. But I also don't throw super far.
I would say that cosmic neutron crave is significantly more stable than other craves, which could be another option
@@denniswebster1048 I don't have a Crave in cosmic neutron, but I have an Insanity in it and it's definitely and easily noticeably more stable than my neutron or fission ones. The most overstable one by a huge margin is the eclipse one however. I don't know if they make an eclipse Crave, but I could see that being a great disc.
Congratulations on your new son. Mine got me addicted to disc golf and we play often. A glow Envy, neutron Servo, cosmic neutron Volt, fission Wave, and plasma Tenacity have found their way into my bag from the Gyropalooza box I got for Christmas.
Yeah I hope mine enjoys disc golf so we can play together! That would be the dream!
Congrats on the new born my guy!
Thank you! 🙌
Congratulations! and good luck getting sleep!
Thank you! 🙌
That baby’s first steps are gonna be an x-step 😂
Lol! I hope not! He would probably face plant 😂
Get this man some positive self talk!
Lol... It was definitely a rough day 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf we've all been there, man! New dad tired is a different kind of tired, my guy.
You've got to ease up on yourself, you began the match in the wrong headspace and reinforced that negative self talk with every "mistake" just ease up, go with the flow and have fun. That's what the game is all about😊
I was very tired this day 😂
Would you say the glide number on the Jay is wrong?
To be honest I don't even know what the glide number on the Jay is 😂
I just know that the Jay pushes forward and flies very far with a forward pushing fade! One of the farther flying mid-ranges I have thrown!
Try the cosmic neutron crave for a straighter shot. Heritage is a really fun course.
Yeah, I really want to try other plastics, because if there is one that is a touch more stable than this one then these would be money to cycle!
Congrats on the kid!!
Thank you! 🙌
Awesome video!
Thank you!
Too cool. I just picked up an ion. so underrated as a thrower and a putter.
Envy is worth the hype, but so versatile in its different plastics. Crave is great, but I recommend the proton plastic for their fairways.
I've had a volt and an insanity in the bag since before the boom... always consistent. Just picked up a trace in neutron, and it's more stable than a wraith, which is good because I hope to beat it in like a wraith
Oh yeah... the Envy is worth every bit of the hype it gets... I understand if people think its too shallow... But you can't deny what a great throwing putter it is!
@@ApolloDiscGolf I’ve only thrown the Conrad Envy, but my friend has a proton Envy that feels deeper!
PS you should totally get a Fireball. Been my go-to in the slot for 3 years. It has a lot of glide
Honestly I think the real appeal for MVP is that they have some of the best putters and mids in the game. Also they have the glitch and who doesn't want to throw a glitch.
The Glitch is definitely a solid disc! So fun to throw!
I like some of their putters and mids, but their faster discs are too flat for me and the rims are so shallow that I get a lot of early releases. They feel pretty good for sidearm though.
Congrats on the son, I have a daughter who is about to be a year & another on the way! Just found your channel keep grinding! ✊🏽
Thank you! 🙌
Congratulations on being a Dad 🍻 🎉🎊🎈 whoot whoot 👍💪!!
Thank you! 🙌
I shall also be blaming my bad rounds on my child 😅 CONGRATS, DAD!
I will forever hold this card in my back pocket for these trash rounds 😂
In my experience, the extra spin is noticeable. My gyro discs always seemed to hold more energy as they hit the ground and have bigger/more skips. I'm excited for MVP as a company moving forward now that they have Simon. He already teased a throwing robot to compare different discs and I think a scientific approach to improving discs is great for the sport. I'd love to see them combine gyro with textures like Latitude 64's discontinued Missilen and Raketen as well!
Yeah, seeing a Robot throw them would be interesting! But at the same time... would that matter when a robot is not throwing the discs for you during your round? Inconsistent humans are throwing them... So how much would that really matter? Just some food for thought!
@@ApolloDiscGolf I think the main driver behind it is to get some more objectivity on flight numbers. Everyone will throw the disc a bit differently, but it would be nice to make things more accurate across brands.
yeah for flight numbers that would be amazing! To have some consistency across brands..
Personally I use the r2 ion as putting putter and my envys as throwing putters.i also like the orbital, vanish, and the virus
I didn't quite click with the Ion! It was a little too deep and the r2 plastic was a bit too gummy for my taste as a putting putter!
Congratulations on the son! I have two boys, 3 and 5, and this is my home course! I pushed my youngest around in a stroller at Heritage for many rounds. Some of the best times of my life!
If you're looking for some help with your channel/store hit me up and we can chat!
Thank you! And I will keep that in mind! It might take me a while to look past your sports loyalties though... Go Cats! 👌
Ah, man! I retract my statements and unsubscribe... Kidding 😁
I can't wait until the windy season here in KC subsides. Windy golf can be fun, but we get long stretches of it!
Real world: Gyro for sure has slow speed discs hold off their fade for longer. Example: I throw a Ion hard and the fade is soooo much late than expected. It just keeps pushing forward.
Yeah, it is interesting with the Gyro tech for sure!
Congratulations on the kid!
Thank you! 🙌
Just had my first baby 4 weeks ago too!! February 13. I feel your pain lol
It's amazing! But exhausting! 😂
Congrats on the Kid! I had a drop off in my game too when my Duaghter was little. Not as much time to play, tired as hell....ect.
Probably a really bad time to mess with form TBH. Wait until they're old enough where you can at least sleep normally. 🤣
Yeah... I have recently given up on it and trying to revert back to where I was before... 😂
@Apollo Disc Golf I did the same thing when my daughter was born. Quickly found out it's quite possibly the worst time to make form tweaks as I'm so tired I can't even really concentrate anyway....🤣
Luckily, that phase passes soon enough.
There are a lot of good things to be said about MVP's Gyro-discs. I went for a complete MVP/Axiom bag last year, BUT there are two BIG concerns: for the first, the availibilty here in Scandinavia is a catastrophy and for the second, their Gyro rims, especially with discs faster than speed 5 does NOT survive any long. Here in Norway we have to deal with tons of rocks. It took me five month to totally ruin my beloved Craves and Insanitys. Big pieces just break out of the rims. I have never seen that by any other company before.
Yeah? So do they beat in pretty quick? that could be a good thing for some who like cycling! (me 😂)
@@ApolloDiscGolf This is a very positive way to look at it… 🙈👍😊
Congratulations! Have you thrown the proxy? Really hoped you would have tried it out. I think it might challenge my Pure. Good content again. Keep it coming 👍
Thank you! and I haven't thrown a proxy yet! But Pures are great putters!
Congrats on the son’ I have a toddler and definitely has limited my time on the course. But it’s worth it
Yeah my son is pretty great! But definitely taking it out of me! Some days I feel like a zombie 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf Beginning months are one of the hardest. You got this though!!
Is streamline gyro?
Technically no... But they are made by the same company and people have been telling me to try a Trace, so I threw it in!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Makes sense. Thank you for the content and congratulations 👶
Conjecture about gyro rims making the discs far farther or straighter be damned. I buy MVP/Axiom/Streamline because they have fantastic molds and plenty of them.
Absolutely! This is why people should by hyped and throw their stuff... They just have great molds! The Gyro.. meh.. but the discs.. great!
Congrats on the kid
Thank you! 🙌
Did you even throw the Ion, lol?
Lol, I did not... Didn't love the feel in the hand, and I wasn't throwing well, and with the wind this day... I didn't feel confident enough throwing that disc... I probably would have just turned it over every time 😂
Those are some gnarly honey locust. Ever pierce a disc on one?
I don't think I have! But I have definitely seen it happen before! And I have stepped on far too many of them...
farther, it's farther.... the discs aren't having a conversation or a debate. This is a PSA for everyone out there.
🤷♂️
@@ApolloDiscGolf Not trying to be mean or anything. Just saying that in a sport and business where things go "far" and you are comparing distances, knowing the difference between "further" and "farther" might be important. And yes, there is a difference. One is for physical distances "that disc went farther than this other one". One is for figurative "lets further the discussion on Gyro tech". You can't farther a conversation, nor throw further than anyone. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Do you ever play waterworks park
I occasionally play Waterworks! But it's about 30 minutes from me... so when I film I normally go to somewhere closer... and just the way the course plays it makes it hard to show disc flights and test new discs because you really have to know your discs and hit your angles right to play that course well 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf it is definitely a tuff course. It usually eats a few discs because of my inaccuracy. If you ever find your self further north Atchison Kansas has two amazing courses . Jackson park is one of my favorites. Lots of elevation and trees
@@monkeyearcheese420 Yeah I haven't been to Atchison before!
@@ApolloDiscGolf it's worth the trip . It's a cute town with good history and disc golf courses. And when your little one gets older they have a good splash pad play ground
So did you name your newborn Hyzer or Flip? It would be interesting to meet a girl who's named Ann only to find out it's short for Anhyzer
Lol... My wife definitely would not have approved of that one 😂
Congrats on the kiddo. Welcome to the dark side. Disc golf down under channel has all the info you need to learn about MVP. Crave is better for flat to slight anny flex shots. Rhythm is good good for hyzer flip. Uplink is money. If you want something faster, the Ascend is so good.
Yeah, a slightly more overstable Crave paired with this Crave I have would be money!
@@ApolloDiscGolf that is called Servo or Resistor if you want more beef
I wouldn't say it's negligible. If you can throw far 10-20 feet could be the difference between being parked and being outside of circle.
Yeah, but that wasn't consistent for Drew if I remember correctly... And you can argue that you would need consistent throws to truly test them... But at the same time, humans are throwing these discs in tourneys... Not robots... So inconsistent throws are going to happen all the time! So how often will you really have that advantage where you can say it was the gyro and not just the disc selection, release angle, spin, power, etc on the throw?
I heard gyro just hits more trees 🙃
Lol... Depends on who is throwing them 😂
I really don’t wanna be the guy………… buuuuuuuuuttttttt streamline isn’t gyro…..
Had to say it for my sanity
Love the content ❤
Yeah... 😂
But thought I would include it in the lineup because it's made by the same company and people have been telling me to try it for some time now! Luckily I didn't throw it much 😂
No paradox? 😂
Pretty much just gathered what I had! So not this time! What does the Paradox do?
In my experience the gyro seems to make a slight difference in lower speed discs. The gyro mids and fairways I have really seem to go farther than the others that I bag. I don’t have the arm to try the high speed discs so it doesn’t matter what I throw when it comes to that lol.
Yeah the Hex and the Crave absolutely bomb for slower discs!
Congrats on your son!! Having boys is the best
Thank you! We are pretty pumped! He's pretty great! 🙌
@@ApolloDiscGolf it only gets better my man! And yes, MVP is pretty killer
Yoo. Let me be your gyro guide.
Signed: a local KC gyronaut.
Heritage is such a great course. Do this challenge next month at Black Hoof ;)
Oooo! Yeah, I will definitely have to do something like this again once Blackhoof opens up! That course is going to be sick!
I suspect it is all hype. Not necessarily in theory, but in practice. It's a question of how much does this particular choice of materials and overshot construction actually increase the moment of inertia. It's a simple question. You can measure it experimentally. Now here's where it gets interesting. I asked MVP's VP of marketing for a breakdown of the moment of inertias of their discs. He said "That's a trade secret". Utterly ridiculous. Imagine if I tried to sell you a sports car and said it has the best power weight ratio on the market, and then you said "Cool, how much power does it produce and how much does it weigh?" and I said "That's a secret." Utterly ridiculous. So then I asked him if they even knew the moments of inertia for their various discs. Of course he insisted they did.
Make of this what you will, but my guess is that
1. Yes they do know the moments of inertia of their own discs.
2. Their overshot molding barely increases the moment of inertia because there isn't enough volume and density differential to work with. (I could be wrong, but like I said, I asked them and couldn't get a straight answer.)
3. If you knew how little the "gyro technology" actually mattered you might not buy their stuff.
4. None of this matters because everyone knows a good disc when they throw it and there are plenty of good gyro discs out there that people should enjoy throwing regardless of the marketing mumbo-jumbo.
Yeah, I think if it does have a big difference on the disc, it's so small you can't notice... It's really the good molds that you should be focused on... not the gyro tech! They make some great molds!
Foot fault
Hope this guy will show up in my comments one day 😂
Cut me some slack man! I just had a kid! 😂
The Envy is not for putting it's for throwing. jfyi
Oh I am aware! But it was between that and the premium plastic ion… and the ion was too soft and deep for me… so I stuck with the envy!
If you are just a little off heritage will eat your lunch.
Yeah! It's such a strange course like that! Like this course is not too hard to shoot -6... even on longs.. But also very easy for the same person to go +10 if you are just barely off 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf if you are ever in Lawrence I’d love to show you a couple of our courses. We have two really great courses.
@@chuckwalla123 Yeah I have played Centennial Park quite a bit! I really enjoy that course! I almost won the Centennial Clash back in like 2015-2016... Or something like that.... I don't remember the exact name... Lost it in a playoff 😫
I have also heard good things about Longview? is that the other course out there? Or are you thinking of two completely different courses? 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf centennial and bob’s mowery was what I was thinking about. Although Longview is really fun too.
@@chuckwalla123 yeah I really enjoy centennial park! It’s a fun one! I haven’t heard of bob’s mowery though… I will have to check that out!
Every disc has gyro .. just sayin
TRUE! So I guess they just claim to have "more" of it... That could also be why companies are making the discs larger in diameter? to give it a touch more gyroscopic force? idk, just a guess!
MVP throwers are 🦃’s
What makes you say that? They have some incredible molds in their lineup!
Ohhhhh congrats brother!
Thank you!
So not a mvp fan... all hype to me
I feel gyro is overreated i havent liked one of them yet i like two steamline discs
I've gotta think that the science behind gyro would be a little divisive among the community. From a physics perspective, someone throwing with less spin would possible have different results from someone who puts a lot of spin on their throws. Personally, I think the tech is cool and beneficial (even slightly) overall, but none of the molds have managed to stay in my bag 😬
Yeah, the Gyro tech is meh to me! I'm indifferent about it.. But I do like their molds! Like the Envy is a great throwing putter and the Crave is solid!