Im glad that goku was able to get super Saiyan in this scenario, its usually commonly mistaken, at least by me for a while, that super Saiyan is a "pure heart" in a good sense, when in actuality it doesnt matter what kind of pure heart you got.
tbh this is as consistent as I can be because I dont like to do parts, but making full stories takes a while. If u rly think abt it consistency is just uploading on a schedule and I have one, 3-4 full lengths per month and 8 shorts per month. But I really appreciate the kind words
@@SaiyanMotion yeah I appreciate that because having it in parts attracts less attention then the full series from what I see but keep up the good work 💪🏼
The Goku-Piccolo bromance is amazing. Really love how they became so much closer after the Cell games and reviving Tien. It's also great that Tien got the spot as Earth's true hero. It kind of hurt that Goku was so callous to grandpa Gohan, but hey, he is meant to be evil. Still cute to see his soft spot for Bulma, though. You were pretty fair to everyone, and faithful to canon. Can't wait for the next!
you forgot one very important narrative aspect with raditz: the use of the powerball was draining to Vegeta who was already familiar with using it. this would have instantly put Raditz at a deficit
the nimbus cloud doesnt require you to have a good heart does it? i thought it was just purity of heart. imagine evil goku riding around on a storm cloud
@@SaiyanMotion yeah but i would've liked for this to be a point were goku start considering what he did with out crying and going for a hug just a small step to become a better guy + bulma well be back and she could change goku even more so in away its like if goku had vigeta character development or something like that
@@EmperorLight64 well if u see the moment he kills him, right then and there I say “he realizes he just made a terrible Mistake” and that’s what leads to his character developing
That fact you went so indepth in the original arcs is what made me love this, I wish the deep detail presisted thru to the end too though, but it seemed a bit rushed from cell games onward, especially the buu arc -> Amazing movie nonetheless though, i understood the effort that must have gone into the beginning so it makes sense when it is hard to keep it up
@@Lokiip I appreciate the kind words! It’s js that once it gets to a certain point things move a bit more quickly than in the original series so I naturally speed up to the video as to now have too much unnecessary story. Thanks for watching
@@SaiyanMotion I can see how that is true. it does dramatically sped up after buu xD either way, I love the in depth detail you go through, especially the earlier arcs. most people skip over them sadly..
I do full stories! Just think it’s a better way to do it and my stories are better if I’m consistently working on the same story. Also the editing is always better if I work the way I do.
well fair, but spike wasnt exactly a strong opponent. Goku js didnt expect to get hit originally which is the thing. The only reason his beam hit goku was to show that goku has 100% pure heart
I'm happy that after the Z-Fighters dealt with Cell the Z-Fighters and Goku were able to come to understand, and are cool with each other now thanks to Piccolo's help. 🙂 Wait? So they didn't get somebody to becoming Earth's New Guardian while on Namek so they didn't have rely on the Namek Dragon Balls again? 🤨 At least Chi-Chi got her husband, although it been Tien is kind of weird I was thinking more Krillin if anything, but it's fine. 👍 Oh Piccolo and Tien with the Ultimate Form nice. 🙂 Paragus is just living his best life in these last two series: He's living on Earth instead of Vampa, Vegeta's dead, and somebody's helping Broly with controlling his power. 😆 Goku unlocking Prefected Ultra Instinct against Broly seems fitting. 👍 Anyways overall another really good full-story, and looking forward to the next one soon. What if suggestion: What if Gohan had Broly's Potential? (You done one for Goku and Goten now I like to see your take on Gohan next. 👍)
good video, but half of the video mostly focusing on Dragon Ball could've been shorter but oh well and im surprised and glad Vegeta was sent Oblivion in this one since most youtubers let him live for some reason 95% of time from what i seen,
Tbh him getting UI would've been better for him, UI is mainly about dodging attacks, while UE instead does the opposite and instead uses attacks as fuel to make it stronger, the main issue being that you'd drop back to Base when too much damage has been inflicted onto you Given the ass whooping Broly was giving Goku in this, UE wouldn't have been too useful considering how much damage was already inflicted Although I have a question, did this Goku go through training for UE or UI?
Aww I wish Goku revived Bulma and maybe got like the Evil Bulma GF. Imagine like a Mad sceintist Bulma constantly helping Goku study his own cells and species and constantly getting stronger and hax to get even stronger. She could do like Aizen level plans. Wouldn't Goku go Majin, Get his potential unlocked in the Babidi way, and then Babidi realizing he can't control him thus making him stupidly more powerful before he just dies. I guess in this timeline Babidi was spared of getting even more bodied.
the real reason is that there arent nearly enough renders of goku with a tail, 0 after he becomes a teen and onwards. So it wouldve been way too much work to put a tail for every render, just imagine its there, it doesnt affect the story really at all.
You might just have to watch the full story and then the bonus part back to back! I don’t think I’ll make a combined version cuz the video is pretty old and not as good as I would like it to be for the channel today
Very long-winded "review" (I guess?) below. =========== Gotta say first and foremost, I really appreciate the bit at the start where you say that Goku's not hitting his head, BUT ALSO his personality is being straight up altered. Too many people still think that the head injury is the sole contributing factor to Goku not being evil. But that would just alter his memories, not rewrite his personality, which in newer continuity is clearly capable of being pure. --- I like how Goku bonding with Bulma is similar in effect to Vegeta's early relationship with her, if more simplified due to him being a kid who just wants to fight. I also like that him giving into his urges too often actually has consequences beyond new enemies, given him being disallowed from reviving Bulma. --- Something I dislike in... practically every single story it happens in, including this one, is Goku having Ikari. That is Broly's unique power from his unique mutation. That, coupled with his immense growth, is what makes him a Berserker. Goku is unchanged outside of personality and should have zero access to these powers. --- I like that a single-mindedly training Goku, who has used Great Ape way more and is in tune with his instincts, was able to train to probably near the level his canon counterpart was at, at the beginning of Z. Given that he was training out of rage from losing Bulma and not just simple want to get stronger, it's reasonable. --- I also love Goku taking in Piccolo and practically raising him, them becoming good training buds. --- I would have expected Goku to be more open to Raditz, given his conflict of killing Gohan, "his only family" as he was called. I think partly because of how comparatively calm he was against King Piccolo, asking him multiple times what he wanted when attacked, I was expected Goku to not act quite so brashly. On top of that, the Special Beam Cannon only canonically increased Piccolo's power by three times or so, with minutes of charging. It could probably have cut off a surprised Raditz' tail, but it wouldn't have done ANYTHING to hurt him as a Great Ape. The Tri-Beam from Goku was the only thing hurting him, but I still feel that the fight was over way too quick. Same with Nappa and Vegeta. Feels like the Saiyan Saga was kept the same for little reason. --- I personally believe there's no way to train into the millions like that. Given that Goku trained with Kaioken, Zenkai Boosts, and 100x Earth's gravity, and only got a little over 11x stronger in six days, doing the same without Kaioken and with training partners could only AT A PUSH get him the same boost. Assuming he was somehow training every single day, which he wouldn't be due to Senzu Bean scarcity and thus wounds and stress piling up, he would still only get roughly 670x stronger, which would put him at about 7 million. More reasonably from him not training literally every day as hard as possible because his body just can't do that, he'd be at maybe 5 - 5.5 million. Also, on a story based point instead of logical timeframes, Goku having 10 million puts him nearly even with Freeza's full power using Ikari, which I guess he can just sort of control perfectly by now. Freeza can't hold his full power for long at all. Saying it now, but putting Goku that close to beating him without much effort is just a lot to do. --- *_Super Saiyan. Cannot be achieved. For no reason. In training._* All the things Goku is focussing on being angry about happened YEARS ago. The same reason Trunks couldn't transform for years in his timeline, Goku can't simply train up into SSJ out of nowhere. Extreme rage is a catalyst, not the entire driving force. You have to NEED it, not just WANT it. This is how Goku himself explains it on-screen, this isn't head canon, What-If writers PLEASE stop having every character train into SSJ during a timeskip. You can't just wave away that they were taught how. Goku took six months to teach Gohan how to do it. By that point, Goku himself had been a Super Saiyan for over three years. He's meditative and introspective, a master of martial arts and the calm nature of Ki, so by that point, he had figured the power out entirely. We still saw a lot of mental anguish and difficulty for Gohan unlocking the form, and it was in the Time Chamber, the most gruelling and effective area for training up until Whis' staff. And the entire time he was being trained, it was made clear to Gohan that if he DIDN'T get this power, the world was doomed. In Gohan's mind, if he wasn't strong enough to be an effective training partner, Goku would never beat Cell. He NEEDED to transform. You can't just skip over it and say it was training. You need to delve into the reasons behind it, and they cannot be as shallow as "I have been angry in the past". At least, AT LEAST, if Goku's reason was the idea that with a much greater power and control over himself that he could have potentially saved Bulma, MAYBE it would have been passable. On top of that, Trunks is a greenhorn. He's very explicitly the amateur, the one who just thinks more Ki means you're better. Trunks CANNOT teach someone else to go Super Saiyan yet. He has nothing beyond, "My master died and felt overwhelming anger", but that should never be enough to make a Saiyan so uncaring about others like this Goku transform. This is perhaps the one thing in the story that just really brings it down for me. It happens in a lot of What-Ifs. And I do not like it. [Continues in my first reply]
Also, by this point in the video (just on the image where Goku has transformed), I'm starting to feel that the whole "He's evil" bit is really coming across like an afterthought. The last evil thing he did was shooting blasts in a city, but that was glossed over pretty quickly. I'd have expected him to at least kill Chi-Chi, Krillin and the like for getting in the way of his fight. Hell, an amazing twist of the narrative for SSJ could have been that both Goku and Freeza got caught in the Spirit Bomb, and in a fit of pure rage at Tien trying to kill him, trying to steal away his greatest fight, and the pure need to survive to battle Freeza properly, Goku could have transformed here. It could have been the final rehash of the recurring idea earlier of him never trusting anyone too closely, and now that he did so again against his better judgement, it seemingly will cost him his life. Thus, an inversion of Goku going SSJ to save himself and Freeza, to kill the earthlings. --- Goku's heart medication is a cure, not a vaccine. Taking it ahead of time would waste it. He has to take it when symptoms show, he has to take it only when he definitely, clearly has the virus actively in his system. --- I guess the evil bit really is falling to the wayside if Piccolo, after a lifetime with Goku, really is still good enough for Kami to even risk fusing with him. Cell being perfect came out of nowhere. I get that he could have went to get the androids while they were sleeping, but he arrived hours after 17 and 18 were released and fought, at least. It would've only taken this Goku and Piccolo a couple seconds to kill 19 and 20, given how weak they are in comparison. On that note, Cell only started the Cell Games because of how he was challenged by Super Vegeta and Ultra Trunks. The latter's power was impressive, but his inexperience with it made him lose. Only from seeing powers like that did Cell decide to see just what Goku could do if he gave him time. Here, it's not even clear if Goku is stronger than the androids. You haven't made any direct comparisons to rough canon levels at this time, but we know that AT the time, no Super Saiyan below Grade 2 was even CLOSE to a match for 17 and 18. Cell logically would just kill them and be done with it. --- In an effort to not sound like I'm just being critical for no reason, I need to preface that a lot of these story beats might be able to work, but you have to take into account WHY they happened in the original series. They weren't predestined, the characters had a reason to make the choices they did. And even if they make similar choices or completely different ones, you have to delve further into each choice and WHY the character does it. Too much of this what-if has felt rushed over after the OG Dragon Ball section. As soon as we got into Z, it's been moving super fast to, I think, the detriment of the story. [Continues yet again. Dunno why I had to split them up - errors kept coming]
I disagree with Goku getting all that much stronger if he has a second year in the chamber, since in canon his reasoning was that he was pushed too far already and further training would be torture, not growth. This implied to me that he understood he had hit his limit, which was below Gohan. also, not to sound like a broken record, but this Goku is very different. How does he come to the same conclusion of mastering Super Saiyan via calmness, making it tame, controlling it? Because that's what FPSSJ / Grade 4 is. He's a wild and instinctive Saiyan here, not the same calm hearted master he was at this point in canon. The same way Vegeta couldn't see calmness being the way to progress SSJ, I doubt Goku would. Him trying to merge SSJ and Ikari would have made much more sense. I don't really understand why Cell is weaker. He isn't present Cell, so he shouldn't lack King Cold's cells, and he would still have all the others. He should still be much stronger than a Full Power Super Saiyan Goku, like in canon. Power levels don't grow indefinitely (I guess unless you're Broly), the characters all have limits that they reach at different times. Goku's limit in ordinary SSJ in the Cell Saga was way below Perfect Cell. Again, the only way for him to be beyond this is to have done something with Ikari, since you gave him it. --- Wait, so Cell has Kaioken?? *_How?_* He didn't get Kaioken from Goku even originally. Gero used Kaioken in his data to make the androids, and thus Cell. The final and most notable battle he says he catalogued was the fight against Vegeta, after all. Why would Cell have Kaioken? Better yet, giving that to him makes him completely unbeatable. If you do give it to him, unless you subscribe to the idea that Kaioken gets harder and harder the more power you have due to the difficulty in controlling it, thus making SSJ forms better all the time, Cell could just do Kaioken x20. Coupled with his regeneration, NO Super Saiyan form is surpassing that. --- SSJ2 Goku is neat, and I at least like the reasoning even as quick as it was given, but again - no Super Saiyan form could beat Cell with Kaioken. He would simply use Kaioken again, and in Super Perfect, he'd be stronger. You can't just have him not use it for no reason. That feels like a plot hole. --- It's kinda funny after everything else that SSJ3 is seen as unrealistic. I completely agree, of course, but it was funny to me. --- By this point I just am a broken record, but you explicitly changed nothing about Goku other than his personality. He hasn't used Ikari for years and years in-world. You even said just seconds ago that there would be less time to train. I fully believe he could beat Dabura fairly easily, but this Goku is NOT as strong as never mind stronger than his canon counterpart who had seven years of uninterrupted training in heaven with all the masters of old. If you haven't changed his potential at all, then giving him less over all time to train from Cell to Buu saga would make him weaker. This Goku would be maybe close to, but slightly below Vegeta's canon level. --- Because of just HOW MUCH of a reach it is, I'm gonna not really put MUCH thought into the stuff post Beerus, because yes the story just ends there. Sorbei wouldn't be able to sneakily get the Dragon Balls from Namek, given that they are in small villages and all. Also, Namekian warriors are on average all way, way beyond regular Freeza Force soldiers, so they wouldn't get Freeza back because the warriors would stop them and there would be no way for Sorbei to know Namekian either. Given that Goku, in your words, "isn't as sincere as his canon counterpart" - (which is no substitute for evil. He's supposed to be evil. He's hardly done a bad thing on screen other than collateral damage. He's not even as evil as Raditz.) - he wouldn't just let it lie that Frost poisoned him. Goku gave Frost the benefit of the doubt because he was naïve and wanted to see the good in him. Here, there's no such thing, and Goku would be the one who would call for tricks, and eventually it would be pointed out that Frost is cheating. It wouldn't be as smoothly done without Jaco, but still. I like Goku training with Broly and making Paragus happy Vegeta's dead, although I somewhat doubt him staying on Earth. More so, however, nothing - NOTHING - would make Whis "step in". He's purely neutral. Angels don't even step in when there is a universal threat present, like Buu. They do as their God commands and the only thing they step in to do is corral said God if THEY are the threat. But they do not interfere with mortal affairs at all. On that same note, there's no way this version of Goku, who hasn't been through basically ANY of his original "calm mind and open senses" training would get Ultra Instinct. He would absolutely get Ultra Ego, like Vegeta. I hate Moro, so I'm more than happy to see him just get killed on the spot. Ultra Ego Goku improving forever would be a way more thematic and fun fight against Broly. I don't agree with him having UI at all. --- A quick conclusion of my thoughts is that this was a remarkably safe What If played mostly straight with shockingly minor deviations from the original story, given how huge the change actually was. Goku being evil should change EVERYTHING. The story doesn't feel like it should be kept on Earth the entire time, and matching every single saga basically beat for beat without the characters being the same, yet having them make all the same decisions and progression anyway, felt very strange. Speaking of, Goku was supposed to be Evil, but the most evil thing he did was (re)kill Grandpa Gohan. After this, the worst he does is not care about collateral damage. Even that didn't make much sense. Vegeta was still one of his greatest enemies, and in canon Goku spared him purely because he wanted to fight him again, not any kind of "I think he can be good" thought. Surely he would've done the same here, but didn't. Ikari was just a strange thing to do, given that it wasn't even used to any proper effect. He pulled it out a few times before getting SSJ, sure, but if you're going to alter Goku into having Ikari in the first place, why drop it after he gets SSJ? Just have him mix them the way Broly does. It's a wild, wrathful power more in line with this version of Goku. Also, there's a really big thing - Goku didn't hit his head. He didn't lose his memories. He should have already known about the Saiyans and known his name, Kakarot. He clearly cared about his Saiyan heritage with the rage behind his tail being removed and losing Great Ape, but that went nowhere. I liked the Dragon Ball portion, but too much was left to be desired with the Z portion and onwards. Characters can't hit all the same story beats if you change them so much, and making that happen anyway was to the detriment of the premise. Goku wasn't really evil here, not to any real degree.
@@InfiniteEscuro I might respond to more of your comment more but it's actually pretty arguable Cell has Kaio-Ken in the canon timeline and that Cell is already a Super Saiyan if you subscribe to that idea he already learned/copied Instant transmission and for someone who would have Goku's Cells and possibly if this Cell is compromised from a different timeline cells of post Kaio-Ken users the Instant transmission was actually harder to learn than Kaio-Ken and Vegito uses it and while Vegito and Gogeta only show Kaio-Ken in games and Heroes it still should be an ability they have. The reason for Cell likely not using it would possibly be the stacking is dangerous and not worth the power that might not last as Goku struggled to use Kaio-Ken in later forms implying it could even kill him. But that's just one possibility. If the body was more prepared for it then it could make sense but most of all it's fun.
@@zelz3011 It is not at all arguable in any way that Canon Cell has the Kaioken - he simply does not. If it had been even passingly implied that he had it, it would be the biggest and most hated plot hole in all of Dragon Ball that he just never used it. The Cell in this What-If is explicitly the unchanged Canon Cell, since SM didn't change Future Trunks' timeline at all. He can't pick and choose that Cell is different for no reason. That's inconsistency, that's a plot hole. As is the fact that he has Kaioken, as is the fact that he stops using it for no stated reason. Canonically, Kaioken is only dangerous once perfected because of transformation stacking. By a certain point, Goku could maintain a x10 easily and only tire himself out with x20, not injure himself with it. Kaioken certainly seems to get harder to use and has a likely hard limit of x20 since it has never once went beyond that canonically before falling utterly out of favour. But Cell isn't using transformations and has a very enduring body which can regenerate. On top of all that, he has perfect control over his power - it's in the name - so the Kaioken, if he had it, would be completely effortless likely all the way up to x20, and even if it wasn't, his body would heal any of the minor damage it did to him. Goku only ever was implied to struggle canonically (if you DON'T subscribe to the idea of more energy = harder Kaioken) because of the "emotional imbalance" of his transformations making him really aggressive. This didn't matter generally since Kaioken was outclassed by base SSJ anyway. Cell doesn't have an emotional imbalance from transformations. And he should be significantly stronger than FPSSJ Goku already, since Goku had hit a hard limit of being below Gohan before he unlocked SSJ2 in Otherworld. And SSJ2 is only double the strength of SSJ. Even if Cell could use literally just Kaioken x3 or so, he would be invincible to everyone present with the powers they are shown to have. You can't give Cell Kaioken because he simply becomes unstoppable. That he has it, and that he loses anyway, is a massive plot hole in a story I clearly dislike and think was handled very poorly in general. (Hell, personally? I think it should be blatantly impossible for Gero to bake Kaioken into Cell. It's not just some technique, it's a technique invented for and by a god. It shouldn't be possible to replicate it without being taught it by another Kaioken User, in my opinion.)
roshi training chichi? that's gives images so wrong that I don't have words for it. an evil goku would be better suited for Beerus to train instead of whis since the UI wouldn't suit him. it will be UE. evil goku tends to focus on fight and being ruthless and careless so the calmness of UI would be ill suited.
not rly. Black isnt goku at all, he's zamasu entirely different person just in gokus body. And turles too is his own person, although that one is more likely, they are very dissimilar.
not really. "Kakarot" doesnt mean evil goku. Canon story goku isnt programmed to go destroy Earth, he is sent to Earth by bardock and gine so frieza doesnt kill him. Goku wasnt inherently evil. So him hitting his head doesnt mean he'll be evil at all, thats why I said "He doesnt hit his head, amongst other slight changes. like mentality and such"
Wait a moment why did trunk travel to this timeline and not the timeline he originally do if your explanation about time travel is true it wont make since is it just to make your life easier than in that case it inaccurate
And Goku black too it explained goku black took the body of another time line Goku why did that change and and truck shinanigant dont is it too make your easier again
And all low mortal level will be erase it was stated that Zeno is originally planning to erase those universe but change his mind because of Goku and choose the tournament of power ARE SERIOUS
@@WolfgangSaiyan not that I have to prove myself but why tf not.. my part 1 of this series was my 7000 subscriber special which was posted on august 15th 2022, currently private. Salad Saiyan is the only other person to do this story and he did it months after me. His story is also nothing like mine... so even if I wasnt the first person not sure where ur getting "its the same" from.
@@SaiyanMotion chaoticiced tea over 2 years ago, yours us 3 months away from 2 years. If you did yours 2 years ago why did it take 2 years for you to bring out the full story when all others ( if they do a full story) only take max a couple of months? Face it your a sheep n follow in others foot steps. Most your vids are primo, I especially like " what if goku was born ssj4 that was sic, I personally have not seen anyone else do it, I was hoping for " what if goku was evil" would be a different run on the story line like was salad did atleast he writes his very own without copying others
@@WolfgangSaiyan you might not understand the way I do my full stories. I dont just combine the parts I do a full revamp and re edit because 2 years ago my editing was ass. Dont call me a sheep when u havent been around on this channel for 2 years. If u get on discord I can show u the screenshot of when I uploaded what if goku was evil. And i dont even know who the other guy is. Never heard of him. My story had 0 outside influence and I made it myself I can guarantee you that much. I've never copied someone ever, dont accuse me of plagiarism and copying, creators are allowed to make a video on the same topic.
Okay. I'm 27 minutes in. I'll admit, I was coming into this fully expecting to counter what ever was said, but honestly, I am loving this version of the story. Okay, 36 and a half minutes in, now I have a problem. What you fail to realize is that Future Trunks needs to exist first in order to come back in time. Trunks must be on a timeline that he, himself, forced the one we follow to branch off from his. He cannot go back in time to an alternate timeline that has nothing to do with him, especially since we're following a timeline that was not branched off of due to meddling with time, but rather one that has now been made into a normal timeline. Nothing is cleared up, from here on your story makes no sense. A BETTER line of reasoning would simply be to have Goku's Ikari form fully manifest into Super Saiyan, have him take down Freeza, and then have someone in the future of this timeline come back in time to get everyone ready for the androids, assuming that Goku didn't simply kill Dr. Gero with the rest of the Red Ribbon Army. Almost 39 minutes in. Goku has no need to take any heart medication because he never went to Yardrat, and thus never got the heart virus. This also means that it's possible that nobody had to go back in time to warn Goku and the others as Goku is still there to face the threat, but then again they do have fewer fighters, so there might have been a need for more focused training due to the lack of combatants, so perhaps it might have still been necessary. Potentially some future son of Chichi's, or an offspring of Piccolo? Either way, we can still have Cell show up this way. I would also suggest that Cell beats everyone to a pulp before announcing his plans for a tournament, giving them proper motivation to train. 42 and a half minutes in. Yeah, Cell should know Kaioken. I'm now honestly surprised that he doesn't know it in the actual show. Good call there. Almost 47 minutes in. Beerus would not have woken up or heard of a super saiyan god or had any interest in Earth. The entire story of Super probably just wouldn't have happened in any form. On the other hand, Beerus would wake up much later and maybe Goku, now having experience with space travel, would frequently travel through space and would feel beerus' power and want to fight him. He might have visited Yadrat at this point and learned the teleportation skill, so we can just say he gets to have that at this point. He goes to fight Beerus who easily stomps him, but before he kills Goku, that's when the oracle fish makes mention of a super saiyan god. They make the decision to allow Goku to travel to the afterlife where they gather 5 saiyans to help with this ritual, or they could gather the Namekian dragon balls to bring back planet Vegeta and all the saiyans who once lived there so that Goku can do the ritual there, the Namekian dragon now having that kind of power after being revised when the new elder took over after Guru died. Almost 48 minutes in. As I said, in my version, Goku could know Instant Transmission (teleportation) from his travels through space looking for a good fight, however we could also say that maybe he learns the superior form of the move from Shin at some point, allowing Goku to teleport anywhere he can think of in his mind, not just to power levels. 51 minutes in. Goku would not learn Ultra Instinct. He would likely learn Ultra Ego, if anything. Broly likely would learn this, too. After thoughts, I would also like to suggest that, with his Ikari form mixed into things, Goku would probably learn to combine it with Super Saiyan, and more importantly, Super Saiyan 3, thus making Super Saiyan 4 at some point in the story.
firstly thanks for enjoying the first 27 minutes. I appreciate it, lets address the points. 1. Future Trunks' timeline is an entirely different continuity. Thats how I treat it thats how other what ifers treat it. It stays the same. In the canon story, when trunks goes back in time and changes the main timeline it doesnt affect his future. We're just saying that the trunks that traveled back originally, is traveling to the new what if timeline. It also just keep the story a lot less complicated. And thats how I like to do it. 2. Goku didnt get the heart virus on yardrat so he would still need medication. I recommend watching a youtube video on it, carthus dojo has a good short on it as well, he explains it pretty good, this is a very large misconception among the fandom that goku got the heart virus from yardrat. 3. There is no reason beerus wouldnt have woken up, I just dont see ur point at all there. Beerus inherently wants a rival and as long as the what if facilities a ssg, the oracle would still prophecies it. I facilitated the god form by saying that whis would help him acheive it rather than a ritual cuz it made sense for the story. 4. SSJ4 Is not canon regardless of how much I love the form, and since its a what if I could totally go down that road regardless of canon, but the reason I dont is because broly has Ikari SSJ (his blank eyes ssj form), which evolves into his FSSJ form. He doesnt get SSJ4 doing that, so it doesnt happen here.
@@SaiyanMotion "Future Trunks' timeline is an entirely different continuity. Thats how I treat it thats how other what ifers treat it. It stays the same." That's great, but that's not how it should be treated. Future Trunks' timeline is the main timeline and only becomes an offshoot after Trunks himself goes back in time to change it, creating a new branch that is still connected to his own. In your "what if" timeline, Future Trunks' timeline has no connection at all, and thus he would simply not show up. There is no logic or reason for it that makes any sort of sense. "In the canon story, when trunks goes back in time and changes the main timeline it doesnt affect his future." No, because he creates an alternate timeline, and he honestly should not be able to go back and forth between the two timelines unless his time machine has recorded the temporal coordinates for both timelines after having visited them. That's the only way that makes sense. What you suggest here is that he would simply know of this alternate timeline and somehow be able to travel to it with his time machine, having never been to it before. You need an alternate explanation for his ability to do that if that's going to make sense. "It also just keep the story a lot less complicated." Except that it actually complicates it even more, because instead of having someone from your what if's future travel back in time, you have someone who would have no access to your what if timeline unless they could somehow get the coordinates traveling back there, thus needing more explanation to explain why he's there, which you do not provide because you think he should just be able to travel there with no explanation as to how it works. He cannot simply travel back in time to a point that does not exist in his timeline, it's a side-step that his time machine did not have the coordinates to. Let me explain it like this. The canon timeline is timeline B, having been created by Trunks on timeline A. Your what if timeline is timeline C, and then Trunks somehow appears in it to create timeline D. The problem is, C split off from A long before B did, and Trunks only travels back in time along A to when he would have created B, somehow appearing in your C timeline without any reasoning. It's far more complicated than simply making up a new character in his place. "this is a very large misconception among the fandom that goku got the heart virus from yardrat." I'll have to look into that one. Thanks for the info there. "There is no reason beerus wouldnt have woken up, I just dont see ur point at all there." My point is that it is stated that Beerus woke up early due to wanting to meet the Super Saiyan God that the oracle fish predicted. The oracle fish would not have predicted that if it wasn't a thing that could happen, which is why I suggest that Beerus would have woken up later on, or at least they would have had to go to more extreme measures to bring about the Super Saiyan God. "I facilitated the god form by saying that whis would help him acheive it rather than a ritual cuz it made sense for the story. " Something to understand here is that it makes sense to the story because that's how you decided to tell the story. I gave alternate scenarios for it that would also make sense. They needed the eternal dragon to tell them how to make a Super Saiyan God, so I'm not sure Whis knew, and without knowing how to do it I doubt they could train themselves into it. To me, having Whis train them into it doesn't make a lot of sense. With the oracle fish predicting it, it would have had to have been something that would have eventually happened on it's own without Beerus or Whis getting involved, but their interference made it happen a little sooner. "SSJ4 Is not canon regardless of how much I love the form" I realize this, but it still does make sense if it's Oozaru combined with Super Saiyan 3, which it kind of is. Since we see that Ikari can be used with Super Saiyan, then it follows that Ikari can be used with Super Saiyan 3. You just have that look like Super Saiyan 4, is all. I think that would be sort of cool, personally. "the reason I dont is because broly has Ikari SSJ (his blank eyes ssj form), which evolves into his FSSJ form. He doesnt get SSJ4 doing that, so it doesnt happen here." Broly doesn't have Super Saiyan 3, so I don't know what your reasoning is here. His Ikari Super Saiyan form looks different from a normal Super Saiyan, and so that gives more evidence that Ikari Super Saiyan 3 could look different from a normal Super Saiyan 3, so why not just have that look like Super Saiyan 4? You don't even have to call it that, either.
For the SSJ4 thing, in GT it never says in any guides (that i know of) or shown that goku was using SSJ3 great ape or something to get ssj4. It was just SSJ on great ape, thats the most consistent opinion. And the reason i mention broly is because he did stack ssj on great ape (a human version of it) so if ssj4 was gonna be what it was it would be with broly.
@@SaiyanMotion He stacked Super Saiyan onto Oozaru, not Super Saiyan 3. That's the difference there. In regard to what Super Saiyan 4 is, It seems likely to me that it's Oozaru combined with Super Saiyan 3, because it was only able to be achieved after Goku got his tail back and went wild and transformed, and when Vegeta had Bulma shoot a light thing at him to trigger it in him. It's only my opinion there, but I think it makes sense and it's cool to see it that way.
@@genostellar ik what the difference is. Thats my point. I dont think it was SSJ3 stacked oozaru personally. Him getting his tail back had nothing to do with ssj3, that onyl contributes to the great ape aspect. And golden oozaru is SSJ + Great ape, thats what most people believe and I agree with that claim personally
goku black would js ruin everyone lol. I mean he shows up in trunks' timeline later any way lol but if he shows up earlier it would js be a disaster. Thanks for watching this vid!
![What If GOKU was BORN a SUPER SAIYAN 4? [Full Story]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TuhqHqCtY40/mqdefault.jpg)
![What If GOKU was BORN a SUPER SAIYAN 4? [Full Story]](/img/tr.png)
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ok i may buy it lol good vid btw
thank you!
Your next what if video should be what if goku married bulma, seems like a good concept and with your potential it could be a great what if
Love your vids btw
@@cooldude6806 appreciate it
Glad you came back for another video. Yeah i understand making full-length videos and not parts take a lot longer. Keep grinding💪
Appreciate it!
Can’t believe Goku thought of bulma and released all over cell 😔
LMAOOO
Bro nah😂
Diabolical
devious ahh
Im glad that goku was able to get super Saiyan in this scenario, its usually commonly mistaken, at least by me for a while, that super Saiyan is a "pure heart" in a good sense, when in actuality it doesnt matter what kind of pure heart you got.
yea cuz android saga vegeta didnt have rly a pure heart either but he got SSJ
@@SaiyanMotion "and besides, my heart is pure. Pure, unadulterated, BADASS"
-Tfs Vegeta
True
Vegeta doesn't have a pure heart yet he has Super Saiyan
If bro became consistent in these, he would take over the DBZ what if space if he really wanted to
tbh this is as consistent as I can be because I dont like to do parts, but making full stories takes a while. If u rly think abt it consistency is just uploading on a schedule and I have one, 3-4 full lengths per month and 8 shorts per month. But I really appreciate the kind words
@@SaiyanMotionjust try to make more shorts tbh so the channel reaches a wider audience
@@tomandjerrysolo8633 twice a week is quite a bit but im gonna try a different way of doing shorts very soon!
@@SaiyanMotion yeah I appreciate that because having it in parts attracts less attention then the full series from what I see but keep up the good work 💪🏼
@@Aqtalni yep thanks man!
The Goku-Piccolo bromance is amazing. Really love how they became so much closer after the Cell games and reviving Tien. It's also great that Tien got the spot as Earth's true hero. It kind of hurt that Goku was so callous to grandpa Gohan, but hey, he is meant to be evil. Still cute to see his soft spot for Bulma, though. You were pretty fair to everyone, and faithful to canon. Can't wait for the next!
R.I.P. TORIYAMA you'll be missed terribly
Already 7 months and it still hurts.
you forgot one very important narrative aspect with raditz: the use of the powerball was draining to Vegeta who was already familiar with using it. this would have instantly put Raditz at a deficit
hency why goku and piccolo are able to beat him in great ape!
You should do the super hero arc but have black frieza appear on earth after the granolah arc. Thus, making cell max an issue
hmm could be interesting
i wouldn't be opposed to this version, id actually love to see this as an alternate time line or something.
Thank God been looking for this video a lot
Thanks for watching!
I always thought if Goku never hit his head, he'd wipe out everyone on earth and join up with Saiyans.
As if he's strong enough to do that and remember he wasn't sent to conquer the planet but instead be safe from frieza
i feel bad for grandpa gohan
Hi i love your vid motion
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
Bro this new thumbnail is real gas🔥🔥🔥🔥
Do Bulma and Chichi if they weren’t annoying next 😂
the nimbus cloud doesnt require you to have a good heart does it? i thought it was just purity of heart. imagine evil goku riding around on a storm cloud
to ride the nimbus cloud you have to be completely pure of heart. Roshi couldnt even ride it. So goku cant in this story but normally he can
@@SaiyanMotion His point is probably that goku is "pure evil"? I dont know
If only the Dark Nimbus Cloud was Canon.
Not really how time trouble works in DBZ, but as Zeno would put it. It’s really cool so I’ll let slide.
Can you do a version were goku doesn't kill gohan while gohan is dead
It’s a very small plot line lol, I mean gohan literally doesn’t do anything in the story after. Makes sense to use him to make goku more evil
@@SaiyanMotion yeah but i would've liked for this to be a point were goku start considering what he did with out crying and going for a hug just a small step to become a better guy + bulma well be back and she could change goku even more so in away its like if goku had vigeta character development or something like that
@@EmperorLight64 well if u see the moment he kills him, right then and there I say “he realizes he just made a terrible
Mistake” and that’s what leads to his character developing
Good stuff
That fact you went so indepth in the original arcs is what made me love this, I wish the deep detail presisted thru to the end too though, but it seemed a bit rushed from cell games onward, especially the buu arc ->
Amazing movie nonetheless though, i understood the effort that must have gone into the beginning so it makes sense when it is hard to keep it up
@@Lokiip I appreciate the kind words! It’s js that once it gets to a certain point things move a bit more quickly than in the original series so I naturally speed up to the video as to now have too much unnecessary story. Thanks for watching
@@SaiyanMotion I can see how that is true. it does dramatically sped up after buu xD
either way, I love the in depth detail you go through, especially the earlier arcs. most people skip over them sadly..
0:41 0:45 2:23 3:02 3:16 3:44 4:03 4:07 4:25 6:38 7:17 9:11 10:23 11:14 13:01 13:11
This is amazing
Wait so do you instantly make full stories or just parts that are combined into full stories
I do full stories! Just think it’s a better way to do it and my stories are better if I’m consistently working on the same story. Also the editing is always better if I work the way I do.
Oh yeah I reckon it's better like that anyway
you should have revived bulma it was the only story where goku and she had some chemistry man
To be honest I actually though gohan reached goku but I forgot this evil goku I wasn't expecting that. 17:32
Bulma really had to watch as she got shafted on Namek!🤣
16:19 this goku would be AT THE BEAR MINIMUM be 3-6x strongerthan the goku who got hit by that bean,so it isnt unreleastic for him to dodge it
well fair, but spike wasnt exactly a strong opponent. Goku js didnt expect to get hit originally which is the thing. The only reason his beam hit goku was to show that goku has 100% pure heart
16:05 and that's why Spike would go through every villain
Real
All bro wanted was just a friend to trust 😭
Then Vegeta and Goku will be still alive beating up each-other while the rest is dead.
I'm happy that after the Z-Fighters dealt with Cell the Z-Fighters and Goku were able to come to understand, and are cool with each other now thanks to Piccolo's help. 🙂 Wait? So they didn't get somebody to becoming Earth's New Guardian while on Namek so they didn't have rely on the Namek Dragon Balls again? 🤨 At least Chi-Chi got her husband, although it been Tien is kind of weird I was thinking more Krillin if anything, but it's fine. 👍 Oh Piccolo and Tien with the Ultimate Form nice. 🙂 Paragus is just living his best life in these last two series: He's living on Earth instead of Vampa, Vegeta's dead, and somebody's helping Broly with controlling his power. 😆 Goku unlocking Prefected Ultra Instinct against Broly seems fitting. 👍 Anyways overall another really good full-story, and looking forward to the next one soon.
What if suggestion:
What if Gohan had Broly's Potential?
(You done one for Goku and Goten now I like to see your take on Gohan next. 👍)
that gohan what if suggestion is closer than you think!
Brilliant
Thank you!
good video, but half of the video mostly focusing on Dragon Ball could've been shorter but oh well and im surprised and glad Vegeta was sent Oblivion in this one since most youtubers let him live for some reason 95% of time from what i seen,
So disappointed of goku hasn’t revive bulma !!
well its character growth. He basically let her go like I explained. At that point shed been dead for over 10 years.
feel like goku wouldn’t even be able to get Ultra Instinct , probably Ultra Ego instead
Yea tbh I realize now that mighta been the way to go
Tbh him getting UI would've been better for him, UI is mainly about dodging attacks, while UE instead does the opposite and instead uses attacks as fuel to make it stronger, the main issue being that you'd drop back to Base when too much damage has been inflicted onto you
Given the ass whooping Broly was giving Goku in this, UE wouldn't have been too useful considering how much damage was already inflicted
Although I have a question, did this Goku go through training for UE or UI?
Good vid
thanks!
can u do a video like this but with broly
man this is quality
huge thanks! Really appreciate it
Man keep on make these cool vids my nigga
real i gotchu
Pls revive Bulma
48:20 - 48:25 thank you because people (I think) mistaken it for ultimate (I think)
pt 2 please with bog rof and top and black frieza/granolah saga
Wait how did goku use the kamehamaha in the battle aGainst raditz
He would probably still know of the technique.
Aww I wish Goku revived Bulma and maybe got like the Evil Bulma GF.
Imagine like a Mad sceintist Bulma constantly helping Goku study his own cells and species and constantly getting stronger and hax to get even stronger.
She could do like Aizen level plans.
Wouldn't Goku go Majin, Get his potential unlocked in the Babidi way, and then Babidi realizing he can't control him thus making him stupidly more powerful before he just dies. I guess in this timeline Babidi was spared of getting even more bodied.
Where’s goku’s tail he should still have it after gohan ripped it off
His tail is irrelevant. The wish Bulma made prevents Goku from transforming.
the real reason is that there arent nearly enough renders of goku with a tail, 0 after he becomes a teen and onwards. So it wouldve been way too much work to put a tail for every render, just imagine its there, it doesnt affect the story really at all.
Please continue this
some day I'll make a bonus!
52:31 This should have happened instead of blue in the movie
yea woulda been really cool to see
@@SaiyanMotion his hair went grey even
Bro you're vids are so good there compared with salad sayians videos ❤
I try! Thank you.
I joined ur membership so now you have to make my wish come true. Pleaseeeee
Can you go through the movies and gt
Why is it that godo always get his head cut off in every what if😂😂😂😂😂
Man I love your narrating style, it's even more pronounced than salad's.😊
Preciate it bro 🙏
good story
Thank you!
if goku remained as kakarot and didnt bump his head then bro would destroy the whole universe
I would think goku would learn ultra ego here
But you need make a full story of goten as lssj with the bonus part
You might just have to watch the full story and then the bonus part back to back! I don’t think I’ll make a combined version cuz the video is pretty old and not as good as I would like it to be for the channel today
@@SaiyanMotion okay and i want see a what if is what if vegata regrow his tail on namek and maybe unlock wrathful
@@bananaboyplayz2668 it wouldn’t change much
@@HonestlyMixi ik but just ask
What if goku was super smart
Very long-winded "review" (I guess?) below.
===========
Gotta say first and foremost, I really appreciate the bit at the start where you say that Goku's not hitting his head, BUT ALSO his personality is being straight up altered. Too many people still think that the head injury is the sole contributing factor to Goku not being evil. But that would just alter his memories, not rewrite his personality, which in newer continuity is clearly capable of being pure.
---
I like how Goku bonding with Bulma is similar in effect to Vegeta's early relationship with her, if more simplified due to him being a kid who just wants to fight. I also like that him giving into his urges too often actually has consequences beyond new enemies, given him being disallowed from reviving Bulma.
---
Something I dislike in... practically every single story it happens in, including this one, is Goku having Ikari. That is Broly's unique power from his unique mutation. That, coupled with his immense growth, is what makes him a Berserker. Goku is unchanged outside of personality and should have zero access to these powers.
---
I like that a single-mindedly training Goku, who has used Great Ape way more and is in tune with his instincts, was able to train to probably near the level his canon counterpart was at, at the beginning of Z. Given that he was training out of rage from losing Bulma and not just simple want to get stronger, it's reasonable.
---
I also love Goku taking in Piccolo and practically raising him, them becoming good training buds.
---
I would have expected Goku to be more open to Raditz, given his conflict of killing Gohan, "his only family" as he was called. I think partly because of how comparatively calm he was against King Piccolo, asking him multiple times what he wanted when attacked, I was expected Goku to not act quite so brashly. On top of that, the Special Beam Cannon only canonically increased Piccolo's power by three times or so, with minutes of charging. It could probably have cut off a surprised Raditz' tail, but it wouldn't have done ANYTHING to hurt him as a Great Ape. The Tri-Beam from Goku was the only thing hurting him, but I still feel that the fight was over way too quick.
Same with Nappa and Vegeta. Feels like the Saiyan Saga was kept the same for little reason.
---
I personally believe there's no way to train into the millions like that. Given that Goku trained with Kaioken, Zenkai Boosts, and 100x Earth's gravity, and only got a little over 11x stronger in six days, doing the same without Kaioken and with training partners could only AT A PUSH get him the same boost. Assuming he was somehow training every single day, which he wouldn't be due to Senzu Bean scarcity and thus wounds and stress piling up, he would still only get roughly 670x stronger, which would put him at about 7 million. More reasonably from him not training literally every day as hard as possible because his body just can't do that, he'd be at maybe 5 - 5.5 million.
Also, on a story based point instead of logical timeframes, Goku having 10 million puts him nearly even with Freeza's full power using Ikari, which I guess he can just sort of control perfectly by now. Freeza can't hold his full power for long at all. Saying it now, but putting Goku that close to beating him without much effort is just a lot to do.
---
*_Super Saiyan. Cannot be achieved. For no reason. In training._*
All the things Goku is focussing on being angry about happened YEARS ago. The same reason Trunks couldn't transform for years in his timeline, Goku can't simply train up into SSJ out of nowhere. Extreme rage is a catalyst, not the entire driving force. You have to NEED it, not just WANT it. This is how Goku himself explains it on-screen, this isn't head canon, What-If writers PLEASE stop having every character train into SSJ during a timeskip. You can't just wave away that they were taught how.
Goku took six months to teach Gohan how to do it. By that point, Goku himself had been a Super Saiyan for over three years. He's meditative and introspective, a master of martial arts and the calm nature of Ki, so by that point, he had figured the power out entirely. We still saw a lot of mental anguish and difficulty for Gohan unlocking the form, and it was in the Time Chamber, the most gruelling and effective area for training up until Whis' staff. And the entire time he was being trained, it was made clear to Gohan that if he DIDN'T get this power, the world was doomed. In Gohan's mind, if he wasn't strong enough to be an effective training partner, Goku would never beat Cell.
He NEEDED to transform.
You can't just skip over it and say it was training. You need to delve into the reasons behind it, and they cannot be as shallow as "I have been angry in the past". At least, AT LEAST, if Goku's reason was the idea that with a much greater power and control over himself that he could have potentially saved Bulma, MAYBE it would have been passable.
On top of that, Trunks is a greenhorn. He's very explicitly the amateur, the one who just thinks more Ki means you're better. Trunks CANNOT teach someone else to go Super Saiyan yet. He has nothing beyond, "My master died and felt overwhelming anger", but that should never be enough to make a Saiyan so uncaring about others like this Goku transform.
This is perhaps the one thing in the story that just really brings it down for me. It happens in a lot of What-Ifs. And I do not like it.
[Continues in my first reply]
Also, by this point in the video (just on the image where Goku has transformed), I'm starting to feel that the whole "He's evil" bit is really coming across like an afterthought. The last evil thing he did was shooting blasts in a city, but that was glossed over pretty quickly. I'd have expected him to at least kill Chi-Chi, Krillin and the like for getting in the way of his fight. Hell, an amazing twist of the narrative for SSJ could have been that both Goku and Freeza got caught in the Spirit Bomb, and in a fit of pure rage at Tien trying to kill him, trying to steal away his greatest fight, and the pure need to survive to battle Freeza properly, Goku could have transformed here. It could have been the final rehash of the recurring idea earlier of him never trusting anyone too closely, and now that he did so again against his better judgement, it seemingly will cost him his life.
Thus, an inversion of Goku going SSJ to save himself and Freeza, to kill the earthlings.
---
Goku's heart medication is a cure, not a vaccine. Taking it ahead of time would waste it. He has to take it when symptoms show, he has to take it only when he definitely, clearly has the virus actively in his system.
---
I guess the evil bit really is falling to the wayside if Piccolo, after a lifetime with Goku, really is still good enough for Kami to even risk fusing with him.
Cell being perfect came out of nowhere. I get that he could have went to get the androids while they were sleeping, but he arrived hours after 17 and 18 were released and fought, at least. It would've only taken this Goku and Piccolo a couple seconds to kill 19 and 20, given how weak they are in comparison. On that note, Cell only started the Cell Games because of how he was challenged by Super Vegeta and Ultra Trunks. The latter's power was impressive, but his inexperience with it made him lose. Only from seeing powers like that did Cell decide to see just what Goku could do if he gave him time.
Here, it's not even clear if Goku is stronger than the androids. You haven't made any direct comparisons to rough canon levels at this time, but we know that AT the time, no Super Saiyan below Grade 2 was even CLOSE to a match for 17 and 18.
Cell logically would just kill them and be done with it.
---
In an effort to not sound like I'm just being critical for no reason, I need to preface that a lot of these story beats might be able to work, but you have to take into account WHY they happened in the original series. They weren't predestined, the characters had a reason to make the choices they did. And even if they make similar choices or completely different ones, you have to delve further into each choice and WHY the character does it. Too much of this what-if has felt rushed over after the OG Dragon Ball section. As soon as we got into Z, it's been moving super fast to, I think, the detriment of the story.
[Continues yet again. Dunno why I had to split them up - errors kept coming]
I disagree with Goku getting all that much stronger if he has a second year in the chamber, since in canon his reasoning was that he was pushed too far already and further training would be torture, not growth. This implied to me that he understood he had hit his limit, which was below Gohan.
also, not to sound like a broken record, but this Goku is very different. How does he come to the same conclusion of mastering Super Saiyan via calmness, making it tame, controlling it? Because that's what FPSSJ / Grade 4 is. He's a wild and instinctive Saiyan here, not the same calm hearted master he was at this point in canon. The same way Vegeta couldn't see calmness being the way to progress SSJ, I doubt Goku would. Him trying to merge SSJ and Ikari would have made much more sense.
I don't really understand why Cell is weaker. He isn't present Cell, so he shouldn't lack King Cold's cells, and he would still have all the others. He should still be much stronger than a Full Power Super Saiyan Goku, like in canon. Power levels don't grow indefinitely (I guess unless you're Broly), the characters all have limits that they reach at different times. Goku's limit in ordinary SSJ in the Cell Saga was way below Perfect Cell.
Again, the only way for him to be beyond this is to have done something with Ikari, since you gave him it.
---
Wait, so Cell has Kaioken??
*_How?_*
He didn't get Kaioken from Goku even originally. Gero used Kaioken in his data to make the androids, and thus Cell. The final and most notable battle he says he catalogued was the fight against Vegeta, after all.
Why would Cell have Kaioken? Better yet, giving that to him makes him completely unbeatable. If you do give it to him, unless you subscribe to the idea that Kaioken gets harder and harder the more power you have due to the difficulty in controlling it, thus making SSJ forms better all the time, Cell could just do Kaioken x20. Coupled with his regeneration, NO Super Saiyan form is surpassing that.
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SSJ2 Goku is neat, and I at least like the reasoning even as quick as it was given, but again - no Super Saiyan form could beat Cell with Kaioken. He would simply use Kaioken again, and in Super Perfect, he'd be stronger.
You can't just have him not use it for no reason. That feels like a plot hole.
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It's kinda funny after everything else that SSJ3 is seen as unrealistic. I completely agree, of course, but it was funny to me.
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By this point I just am a broken record, but you explicitly changed nothing about Goku other than his personality. He hasn't used Ikari for years and years in-world. You even said just seconds ago that there would be less time to train. I fully believe he could beat Dabura fairly easily, but this Goku is NOT as strong as never mind stronger than his canon counterpart who had seven years of uninterrupted training in heaven with all the masters of old.
If you haven't changed his potential at all, then giving him less over all time to train from Cell to Buu saga would make him weaker. This Goku would be maybe close to, but slightly below Vegeta's canon level.
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Because of just HOW MUCH of a reach it is, I'm gonna not really put MUCH thought into the stuff post Beerus, because yes the story just ends there.
Sorbei wouldn't be able to sneakily get the Dragon Balls from Namek, given that they are in small villages and all. Also, Namekian warriors are on average all way, way beyond regular Freeza Force soldiers, so they wouldn't get Freeza back because the warriors would stop them and there would be no way for Sorbei to know Namekian either.
Given that Goku, in your words, "isn't as sincere as his canon counterpart" - (which is no substitute for evil. He's supposed to be evil. He's hardly done a bad thing on screen other than collateral damage. He's not even as evil as Raditz.) - he wouldn't just let it lie that Frost poisoned him. Goku gave Frost the benefit of the doubt because he was naïve and wanted to see the good in him. Here, there's no such thing, and Goku would be the one who would call for tricks, and eventually it would be pointed out that Frost is cheating. It wouldn't be as smoothly done without Jaco, but still.
I like Goku training with Broly and making Paragus happy Vegeta's dead, although I somewhat doubt him staying on Earth. More so, however, nothing - NOTHING - would make Whis "step in". He's purely neutral. Angels don't even step in when there is a universal threat present, like Buu. They do as their God commands and the only thing they step in to do is corral said God if THEY are the threat. But they do not interfere with mortal affairs at all.
On that same note, there's no way this version of Goku, who hasn't been through basically ANY of his original "calm mind and open senses" training would get Ultra Instinct. He would absolutely get Ultra Ego, like Vegeta.
I hate Moro, so I'm more than happy to see him just get killed on the spot.
Ultra Ego Goku improving forever would be a way more thematic and fun fight against Broly. I don't agree with him having UI at all.
---
A quick conclusion of my thoughts is that this was a remarkably safe What If played mostly straight with shockingly minor deviations from the original story, given how huge the change actually was. Goku being evil should change EVERYTHING. The story doesn't feel like it should be kept on Earth the entire time, and matching every single saga basically beat for beat without the characters being the same, yet having them make all the same decisions and progression anyway, felt very strange. Speaking of, Goku was supposed to be Evil, but the most evil thing he did was (re)kill Grandpa Gohan. After this, the worst he does is not care about collateral damage.
Even that didn't make much sense. Vegeta was still one of his greatest enemies, and in canon Goku spared him purely because he wanted to fight him again, not any kind of "I think he can be good" thought. Surely he would've done the same here, but didn't.
Ikari was just a strange thing to do, given that it wasn't even used to any proper effect. He pulled it out a few times before getting SSJ, sure, but if you're going to alter Goku into having Ikari in the first place, why drop it after he gets SSJ? Just have him mix them the way Broly does. It's a wild, wrathful power more in line with this version of Goku.
Also, there's a really big thing - Goku didn't hit his head. He didn't lose his memories.
He should have already known about the Saiyans and known his name, Kakarot. He clearly cared about his Saiyan heritage with the rage behind his tail being removed and losing Great Ape, but that went nowhere.
I liked the Dragon Ball portion, but too much was left to be desired with the Z portion and onwards. Characters can't hit all the same story beats if you change them so much, and making that happen anyway was to the detriment of the premise. Goku wasn't really evil here, not to any real degree.
@@InfiniteEscuro I might respond to more of your comment more but it's actually pretty arguable Cell has Kaio-Ken in the canon timeline and that Cell is already a Super Saiyan if you subscribe to that idea he already learned/copied Instant transmission and for someone who would have Goku's Cells and possibly if this Cell is compromised from a different timeline cells of post Kaio-Ken users the Instant transmission was actually harder to learn than Kaio-Ken and Vegito uses it and while Vegito and Gogeta only show Kaio-Ken in games and Heroes it still should be an ability they have.
The reason for Cell likely not using it would possibly be the stacking is dangerous and not worth the power that might not last as Goku struggled to use Kaio-Ken in later forms implying it could even kill him.
But that's just one possibility. If the body was more prepared for it then it could make sense but most of all it's fun.
@@zelz3011 It is not at all arguable in any way that Canon Cell has the Kaioken - he simply does not. If it had been even passingly implied that he had it, it would be the biggest and most hated plot hole in all of Dragon Ball that he just never used it.
The Cell in this What-If is explicitly the unchanged Canon Cell, since SM didn't change Future Trunks' timeline at all. He can't pick and choose that Cell is different for no reason. That's inconsistency, that's a plot hole. As is the fact that he has Kaioken, as is the fact that he stops using it for no stated reason.
Canonically, Kaioken is only dangerous once perfected because of transformation stacking. By a certain point, Goku could maintain a x10 easily and only tire himself out with x20, not injure himself with it. Kaioken certainly seems to get harder to use and has a likely hard limit of x20 since it has never once went beyond that canonically before falling utterly out of favour.
But Cell isn't using transformations and has a very enduring body which can regenerate. On top of all that, he has perfect control over his power - it's in the name - so the Kaioken, if he had it, would be completely effortless likely all the way up to x20, and even if it wasn't, his body would heal any of the minor damage it did to him. Goku only ever was implied to struggle canonically (if you DON'T subscribe to the idea of more energy = harder Kaioken) because of the "emotional imbalance" of his transformations making him really aggressive. This didn't matter generally since Kaioken was outclassed by base SSJ anyway.
Cell doesn't have an emotional imbalance from transformations. And he should be significantly stronger than FPSSJ Goku already, since Goku had hit a hard limit of being below Gohan before he unlocked SSJ2 in Otherworld. And SSJ2 is only double the strength of SSJ. Even if Cell could use literally just Kaioken x3 or so, he would be invincible to everyone present with the powers they are shown to have.
You can't give Cell Kaioken because he simply becomes unstoppable.
That he has it, and that he loses anyway, is a massive plot hole in a story I clearly dislike and think was handled very poorly in general.
(Hell, personally? I think it should be blatantly impossible for Gero to bake Kaioken into Cell. It's not just some technique, it's a technique invented for and by a god. It shouldn't be possible to replicate it without being taught it by another Kaioken User, in my opinion.)
honestly wouldve been great if goku died to frieza ngl
roshi training chichi? that's gives images so wrong that I don't have words for it.
an evil goku would be better suited for Beerus to train instead of whis since the UI wouldn't suit him. it will be UE. evil goku tends to focus on fight and being ruthless and careless so the calmness of UI would be ill suited.
Tbh i agree with the UE thing, overlooked that a bit
Why didnt he bring bulma bk
character growth. He basically let her go like I explained. At that point shed been dead for over 10 years.
@@SaiyanMotion makes sense btw that was a amazing video
@@SaiyanMotion btw doyou plan on continuing it?
@@SaiyanMotionidc bring her back
I thought he was gonna like EVIL evil
I mean bro was a menace 💀
Me to bro he just lied to us wtf not cool😮😮
The short answer to that question is he'd be Turles or Black. Those are Gokus but Evil.
not rly. Black isnt goku at all, he's zamasu entirely different person just in gokus body. And turles too is his own person, although that one is more likely, they are very dissimilar.
Goku was evil is the best thing ever
What lf Goten Became Evil Pls?❤ Pls?❤
sup wtw with the shout out ?
?
could i please get a shout out @@SaiyanMotion
@@dragonlordmatt9662 i dont do shoutouts sry
oof
43:34 so instead of Vegeta who "cares" (?) about trunks it's Goku
Yes.
What if goku was a half demon and half Saiyan
What lf Goten Turns Evil Pls?❤ Pls?❤
This Goku should have got Ultra Ego instead of Ultra Instinct...
i agree, oversight on my part, mb
This better bc goku didn't die like 8 times yet
So It don't really seem like Goku was all that evil. 😅
W Member!!!
🎉🎉🎉
I think orange is strong as blue from the morro arc
Alt title: what if goku became kakarot again
not really. "Kakarot" doesnt mean evil goku. Canon story goku isnt programmed to go destroy Earth, he is sent to Earth by bardock and gine so frieza doesnt kill him. Goku wasnt inherently evil. So him hitting his head doesnt mean he'll be evil at all, thats why I said "He doesnt hit his head, amongst other slight changes. like mentality and such"
@@SaiyanMotion ok i get it is just a joke
@@freddyfartbear1987 not tryna be mean sorry, was just explaining LOL
@@freddyfartbear1987 mb went into a bit of a Dragon ball lesson 😭
Ultra ego will suits him
Yea looking back I see it.
That doesn't sense to me 36:26
bro pls atlest someone for goku he will be single .even crilin gets 18 in og man
Kakarot you are number 1👍
He's not even that evil
bro killed yamcha and puar in the first 5 minutes
BUT saiyans kill all life of the planet there on
If raditz comes to earth to get kakarot he would see kakarot killed everyone on earth
If raditz gets kakarot then maybe he would join him
So kakarot would destroy earth after
Good Goku vs Goku evil
Wait a moment why did trunk travel to this timeline and not the timeline he originally do if your explanation about time travel is true it wont make since is it just to make your life easier than in that case it inaccurate
And how the earth survive
And Goku black too it explained goku black took the body of another time line Goku why did that change and and truck shinanigant dont is it too make your easier again
And all low mortal level will be erase it was stated that Zeno is originally planning to erase those universe but change his mind because of Goku and choose the tournament of power ARE SERIOUS
Goku unlock mui not pui in your what if mui is with white hair pui is Goku doing it at will
Taco bell
Word!
This is exact the same as other ppls " what if goku was evil " can't you come up with something new
i was literally the first person to do it... this is just the full story version lol
@@SaiyanMotion you were not,
@@WolfgangSaiyan not that I have to prove myself but why tf not.. my part 1 of this series was my 7000 subscriber special which was posted on august 15th 2022, currently private. Salad Saiyan is the only other person to do this story and he did it months after me.
His story is also nothing like mine... so even if I wasnt the first person not sure where ur getting "its the same" from.
@@SaiyanMotion chaoticiced tea over 2 years ago, yours us 3 months away from 2 years.
If you did yours 2 years ago why did it take 2 years for you to bring out the full story when all others ( if they do a full story) only take max a couple of months?
Face it your a sheep n follow in others foot steps.
Most your vids are primo, I especially like " what if goku was born ssj4 that was sic, I personally have not seen anyone else do it, I was hoping for " what if goku was evil" would be a different run on the story line like was salad did atleast he writes his very own without copying others
@@WolfgangSaiyan you might not understand the way I do my full stories. I dont just combine the parts I do a full revamp and re edit because 2 years ago my editing was ass. Dont call me a sheep when u havent been around on this channel for 2 years. If u get on discord I can show u the screenshot of when I uploaded what if goku was evil.
And i dont even know who the other guy is. Never heard of him. My story had 0 outside influence and I made it myself I can guarantee you that much. I've never copied someone ever, dont accuse me of plagiarism and copying, creators are allowed to make a video on the same topic.
Okay. I'm 27 minutes in. I'll admit, I was coming into this fully expecting to counter what ever was said, but honestly, I am loving this version of the story.
Okay, 36 and a half minutes in, now I have a problem. What you fail to realize is that Future Trunks needs to exist first in order to come back in time. Trunks must be on a timeline that he, himself, forced the one we follow to branch off from his. He cannot go back in time to an alternate timeline that has nothing to do with him, especially since we're following a timeline that was not branched off of due to meddling with time, but rather one that has now been made into a normal timeline. Nothing is cleared up, from here on your story makes no sense. A BETTER line of reasoning would simply be to have Goku's Ikari form fully manifest into Super Saiyan, have him take down Freeza, and then have someone in the future of this timeline come back in time to get everyone ready for the androids, assuming that Goku didn't simply kill Dr. Gero with the rest of the Red Ribbon Army.
Almost 39 minutes in. Goku has no need to take any heart medication because he never went to Yardrat, and thus never got the heart virus. This also means that it's possible that nobody had to go back in time to warn Goku and the others as Goku is still there to face the threat, but then again they do have fewer fighters, so there might have been a need for more focused training due to the lack of combatants, so perhaps it might have still been necessary. Potentially some future son of Chichi's, or an offspring of Piccolo? Either way, we can still have Cell show up this way. I would also suggest that Cell beats everyone to a pulp before announcing his plans for a tournament, giving them proper motivation to train.
42 and a half minutes in. Yeah, Cell should know Kaioken. I'm now honestly surprised that he doesn't know it in the actual show. Good call there.
Almost 47 minutes in. Beerus would not have woken up or heard of a super saiyan god or had any interest in Earth. The entire story of Super probably just wouldn't have happened in any form. On the other hand, Beerus would wake up much later and maybe Goku, now having experience with space travel, would frequently travel through space and would feel beerus' power and want to fight him. He might have visited Yadrat at this point and learned the teleportation skill, so we can just say he gets to have that at this point. He goes to fight Beerus who easily stomps him, but before he kills Goku, that's when the oracle fish makes mention of a super saiyan god. They make the decision to allow Goku to travel to the afterlife where they gather 5 saiyans to help with this ritual, or they could gather the Namekian dragon balls to bring back planet Vegeta and all the saiyans who once lived there so that Goku can do the ritual there, the Namekian dragon now having that kind of power after being revised when the new elder took over after Guru died.
Almost 48 minutes in. As I said, in my version, Goku could know Instant Transmission (teleportation) from his travels through space looking for a good fight, however we could also say that maybe he learns the superior form of the move from Shin at some point, allowing Goku to teleport anywhere he can think of in his mind, not just to power levels.
51 minutes in. Goku would not learn Ultra Instinct. He would likely learn Ultra Ego, if anything. Broly likely would learn this, too.
After thoughts, I would also like to suggest that, with his Ikari form mixed into things, Goku would probably learn to combine it with Super Saiyan, and more importantly, Super Saiyan 3, thus making Super Saiyan 4 at some point in the story.
firstly thanks for enjoying the first 27 minutes. I appreciate it, lets address the points.
1. Future Trunks' timeline is an entirely different continuity. Thats how I treat it thats how other what ifers treat it. It stays the same. In the canon story, when trunks goes back in time and changes the main timeline it doesnt affect his future. We're just saying that the trunks that traveled back originally, is traveling to the new what if timeline. It also just keep the story a lot less complicated. And thats how I like to do it.
2. Goku didnt get the heart virus on yardrat so he would still need medication. I recommend watching a youtube video on it, carthus dojo has a good short on it as well, he explains it pretty good, this is a very large misconception among the fandom that goku got the heart virus from yardrat.
3. There is no reason beerus wouldnt have woken up, I just dont see ur point at all there. Beerus inherently wants a rival and as long as the what if facilities a ssg, the oracle would still prophecies it. I facilitated the god form by saying that whis would help him acheive it rather than a ritual cuz it made sense for the story.
4. SSJ4 Is not canon regardless of how much I love the form, and since its a what if I could totally go down that road regardless of canon, but the reason I dont is because broly has Ikari SSJ (his blank eyes ssj form), which evolves into his FSSJ form. He doesnt get SSJ4 doing that, so it doesnt happen here.
@@SaiyanMotion "Future Trunks' timeline is an entirely different continuity. Thats how I treat it thats how other what ifers treat it. It stays the same."
That's great, but that's not how it should be treated. Future Trunks' timeline is the main timeline and only becomes an offshoot after Trunks himself goes back in time to change it, creating a new branch that is still connected to his own. In your "what if" timeline, Future Trunks' timeline has no connection at all, and thus he would simply not show up. There is no logic or reason for it that makes any sort of sense.
"In the canon story, when trunks goes back in time and changes the main timeline it doesnt affect his future."
No, because he creates an alternate timeline, and he honestly should not be able to go back and forth between the two timelines unless his time machine has recorded the temporal coordinates for both timelines after having visited them. That's the only way that makes sense. What you suggest here is that he would simply know of this alternate timeline and somehow be able to travel to it with his time machine, having never been to it before. You need an alternate explanation for his ability to do that if that's going to make sense.
"It also just keep the story a lot less complicated."
Except that it actually complicates it even more, because instead of having someone from your what if's future travel back in time, you have someone who would have no access to your what if timeline unless they could somehow get the coordinates traveling back there, thus needing more explanation to explain why he's there, which you do not provide because you think he should just be able to travel there with no explanation as to how it works. He cannot simply travel back in time to a point that does not exist in his timeline, it's a side-step that his time machine did not have the coordinates to.
Let me explain it like this. The canon timeline is timeline B, having been created by Trunks on timeline A. Your what if timeline is timeline C, and then Trunks somehow appears in it to create timeline D. The problem is, C split off from A long before B did, and Trunks only travels back in time along A to when he would have created B, somehow appearing in your C timeline without any reasoning. It's far more complicated than simply making up a new character in his place.
"this is a very large misconception among the fandom that goku got the heart virus from yardrat."
I'll have to look into that one. Thanks for the info there.
"There is no reason beerus wouldnt have woken up, I just dont see ur point at all there."
My point is that it is stated that Beerus woke up early due to wanting to meet the Super Saiyan God that the oracle fish predicted. The oracle fish would not have predicted that if it wasn't a thing that could happen, which is why I suggest that Beerus would have woken up later on, or at least they would have had to go to more extreme measures to bring about the Super Saiyan God.
"I facilitated the god form by saying that whis would help him acheive it rather than a ritual cuz it made sense for the story. "
Something to understand here is that it makes sense to the story because that's how you decided to tell the story. I gave alternate scenarios for it that would also make sense. They needed the eternal dragon to tell them how to make a Super Saiyan God, so I'm not sure Whis knew, and without knowing how to do it I doubt they could train themselves into it. To me, having Whis train them into it doesn't make a lot of sense. With the oracle fish predicting it, it would have had to have been something that would have eventually happened on it's own without Beerus or Whis getting involved, but their interference made it happen a little sooner.
"SSJ4 Is not canon regardless of how much I love the form"
I realize this, but it still does make sense if it's Oozaru combined with Super Saiyan 3, which it kind of is. Since we see that Ikari can be used with Super Saiyan, then it follows that Ikari can be used with Super Saiyan 3. You just have that look like Super Saiyan 4, is all. I think that would be sort of cool, personally.
"the reason I dont is because broly has Ikari SSJ (his blank eyes ssj form), which evolves into his FSSJ form. He doesnt get SSJ4 doing that, so it doesnt happen here."
Broly doesn't have Super Saiyan 3, so I don't know what your reasoning is here. His Ikari Super Saiyan form looks different from a normal Super Saiyan, and so that gives more evidence that Ikari Super Saiyan 3 could look different from a normal Super Saiyan 3, so why not just have that look like Super Saiyan 4? You don't even have to call it that, either.
For the SSJ4 thing, in GT it never says in any guides (that i know of) or shown that goku was using SSJ3 great ape or something to get ssj4. It was just SSJ on great ape, thats the most consistent opinion. And the reason i mention broly is because he did stack ssj on great ape (a human version of it) so if ssj4 was gonna be what it was it would be with broly.
@@SaiyanMotion He stacked Super Saiyan onto Oozaru, not Super Saiyan 3. That's the difference there. In regard to what Super Saiyan 4 is, It seems likely to me that it's Oozaru combined with Super Saiyan 3, because it was only able to be achieved after Goku got his tail back and went wild and transformed, and when Vegeta had Bulma shoot a light thing at him to trigger it in him. It's only my opinion there, but I think it makes sense and it's cool to see it that way.
@@genostellar ik what the difference is. Thats my point. I dont think it was SSJ3 stacked oozaru personally. Him getting his tail back had nothing to do with ssj3, that onyl contributes to the great ape aspect. And golden oozaru is SSJ + Great ape, thats what most people believe and I agree with that claim personally
Womp womp toriyama
But goku IS evil
No he isn't 🙄🙄
This was a great talk, evil Goku would be a threat, I hope you do what if Goku Black was in the history trunks movie
goku black would js ruin everyone lol. I mean he shows up in trunks' timeline later any way lol but if he shows up earlier it would js be a disaster. Thanks for watching this vid!