Thanks to Geoff I appear to be becoming a train nerd. But as an electronic engineer I love the shunt/series/parallel labels as they make perfect sense and describe exactly what they do.
Very true George, I am somewhat annoyed that the explanation of these terms in the video was not better, for instance what happens to the electricity not used for traction - heat. I guess the S stock has thyristor control or something.
@@ianmurray250 I've watched it and can see where there's loads of extra bits to add, but I think the way it was described was an easy way for a wide audience to get the idea.
Actually it's bollocks. Shunt has resistors, series is a series circuit and parallel is a parallel circuit so parallel is four times more power than series and shunt chucks out a lot of the power as heat. If you ever saw a train with the grids glowing you'd know what I'm on about. Never drive a train in shunt/inch for more than a minute and usually round the yard, which is what it's there for.
@@ianmurray250 Shunt/inch chucks it out as heat. Series and parallel are series and parallel circuits so parallel is four times the power of series (Ohm's law)
10:00 after, I can sense the sorrow within Alex, I can tell that he would love to spend just a moment longer with the train the started his career as a train driver. I've recently experienced the same feelings as my primary school moved into a new campus. A perfect display of the love and compassion from a driver who loves his hip and train. Like Alex, a kiss goodbye to the c stock, although I never got a chance to ride on one, may your legacy lives on. P.S. in HK, where I live, we're facing the same situation and feelings soon as the old trains on our railway (the m-train and the MLR, both built by Metro Cammell) is going to be retired and presumably scrapped.
Fun fact : the MLR mentioned above is based on the mark-3 based 2nd gen EMUs on the British mainline, namely the 317. The m-train on the other hand is said to be based on the 67stock, although I saw more resemblance betweenthe m-train and the subsurface stocks, namely the C and D stock
@@volker8760 You say that the MLR is based on the Class 317 but that train was manufactured by BREL (British Rail Engineering Ltd), not Metro-Cammell. Was there cooperation between the two companies?
For anyone wondering, "series" is switched so several motors are lined up one after the other in the circuit - the current has to go through all of them, thus increasing resistance. When the controller is switched to "parallel," the current goes through each motor independently, thus there is less resistance. It's a very simple way of controlling acceleration, but it works.
And, on top of that, if I recall correctly, both series and parallel each have several stages of resistance that a relay or set of relays or contactors switch through automatically, based on the current being drawn by the motors. This ensures that (a) the motors don't overheat and, and (b) the train doesn't shake violently whenever starting to accelerate.
Outfrost I think you are referring to the RPA (rapid pneumatic accelerator), which could be heard in operation as the train accelerated from rest as a rhythmic clicking.
@@RJE48 Yes, although the 1960TS is a much rarer sight, only two 1960TS trains are left. There's quite a few 1938TS carriages scattered around the UK. Plus this is officially the oldest running train on the Underground, as the A Stock is gone.
So that's what it is! I think I saw one once, years ago, and couldn't work out what it was - it was obviously an engineering train of some sort but beyond that I couldn't find any details. My description of it as "like an old train but armoured-looking" didn't help either, lol.
@@Dogtor_Orsum It's been quite a while since one of them saw service (withdrawn in 1994), and it has been changed quite a lot since it left service. There is one in original condition with the heritage livery in preservation. It is essentially two 1960 Stock DM's with a modified 1973 Stock Trailer. When in service, the units had 1938 Stock trailers instead. It will probably be going in the next few years, with the 1973 Stock becoming available upon withdrawal, it will probably be heading to the scrapyard.
The C Stock which originally served the Circle, Hammersmith & City and the Wimbledon to Edgware Road branch of the District line, passed over those duties to the S Stock. RIP C69/C77 stock. Thank you for many years of faithful service.
Intriguing to see at 1:35 what looks like a Cravens 1960 stock unit in the car shed alongside the S stock. A graphic demonstration of the size difference between tube and cut-and-cover rolling stock! (Edit: comments below confirm that it is the Track Recording Train formed of 1960 stock)
I hope you're still around on TH-cam when they replace the old '72, '73 and '92 stock with the (still to be properly named) "new tube" in a few years time. Mainly because the other few videos on the transition from old to new stock have been fascinating. The only difference is we'll all be a lot older and greyer by then!
The front, the flashing lights, the closing door sound and the announcements make me feel like the C-stock is just a larger version of the 1972 stock used on the Bakerloo line.
I got an opportunity to ride a C stock train only once in my life, and I was too young a kid to remember anything. All I recall is it was a journey from King's Cross St. Pancras to Tower Hill, and it must've been on a C stock on the Circle. I only got to know them a bit through World of Subways later on.
As a passenger, I never liked the C stock, they felt neglected, and it was really annoying when the lights would go out. The S stock is an improvement for passengers, but not so much for drivers
Rip Curl 69 there will always be issues with lighting momentarily going off due to the sectionalisation of traction current which is necessary where you have points etc and also where traction current sections end - it is arranged this way so that if traction current is discharged due to an incident at one station, it doesn’t bring the whole line to a halt. I’m confused that you say it’s starting to get annoying... it has always happened.
Great video. I drove c stock from when they arrived. Rickmansworth crews hated them. They were happy when they were confined to met main only. For myself I loved them and drove them till I retired In July 2000.happy days.
I liked the C Stock for two reasons: The distinctive motor noise was very similar to Warp Drive on the original Star Trek. th-cam.com/video/_DN3KW3k0Ao/w-d-xo.html I always thought that the sound effects on the Bridge should have included a grasshopper-like compressor kicking in and out. Also, before the late 70's the suspension was all over the place giving the trains a really wide rocking motion and you could pretend to be surfing by not holding on (later rectified with dampers on the bogies).
7:36 this move still happens every week, only they join the Underground at West Ruislip now. You can usually see a train in the LUL sidings at West Ruislip.
The C Stock was genuinely the OG Tube Train they were amazing, they had nice LT117 DC Motors which sounded amazing and they had a really nice look and feel to them
Good video, and what have I missed? Only starting going to London 3 years ago. Managed to get a D-stock single and only chance ride! No c-Stock :( Great Video.... LOL my trips are off Pendy at Euston across the concourse... And then I'm a mole all day!
Like most new tube stock, C-stock were a great improvement on the previous rolling stock in 1970, but old age, lower maintenance prior to replacement and passenger expectations all take their toll on passenger experience. The main difference is that C-stock are 1969 design mechanical and can be understood by drivers when they go wrong, S-stock is 2008 design with computerisation making it much harder for a driver to repair on the fly if required. On the other hand S stock can report potential problems before they happen. In theory although there is more to go wrong, less should. It'll be interesting to see what passengers think about S stock in 2048 when they are replaced with .... well goodness knows what London will need by then.
I remember checking the installation of the Connect train radios and ancillary equipment on the C stock in Hammersmith Depot in about 2005/6. BTW doesn't Hammersmith Depot have the longest non thru carriage shed in the country? I seem to recollect that you could park up 3 C Stock trains in a row on the same road inside the shed.
Compared to a traditional 9 notch controller and air brake, these look rather simple to operate. I like that the motor and brake controls are cleverly integrated.
Done a few Edgware rd - Wimbledon’s on these... not to mention a few Sunday circle duties. What are they doing with the triangle now? Does anything get stabled there? Nice to see the guards panel was still there.
Are there any films of the old slam-door Metropolitan trains? I remember riding on those out of Baker St to Preston Rd in 1957 and again between Preston Rd and Wembley Pk en route to Stanmore.
The Bakerloo line must be the only line that has old stock in use still?? I hope they keep them running. I love going on that line and those old stock trains!!
That was fascinating! And now I know what's going on when drivers move that lever around. (See it a lot on tram videos, too - of older model trams). The train must be electrified by a third rail because there are no overheads. I wonder why different places electrify their trains differently?
The Underground uses fourth rail system as that's what was originally developed. Most of the old British Rail southern region use third rail as that was the standard in the late 19th/early 20th century, as well as many lines that run in narrow tunnels where there isn't room for overhead wires. Most services north of the Thames use overhead electrification due to it being more reliable and powerful (fastest third rail train can go 108mph versus 357.2mph for overhead) and they were mostly electrified in the last 50-60 years
He probably didn't have enough footage at that particular station so he used footage recorded at a different stop earlier that day on the other side but then flipped it.
Thanks to Geoff I appear to be becoming a train nerd. But as an electronic engineer I love the shunt/series/parallel labels as they make perfect sense and describe exactly what they do.
Very true George, I am somewhat annoyed that the explanation of these terms in the video was not better, for instance what happens to the electricity not used for traction - heat. I guess the S stock has thyristor control or something.
@@ianmurray250 I've watched it and can see where there's loads of extra bits to add, but I think the way it was described was an easy way for a wide audience to get the idea.
@@ianmurray250 S stock has transistor-based inverters powering AC traction motors.
Actually it's bollocks. Shunt has resistors, series is a series circuit and parallel is a parallel circuit so parallel is four times more power than series and shunt chucks out a lot of the power as heat. If you ever saw a train with the grids glowing you'd know what I'm on about. Never drive a train in shunt/inch for more than a minute and usually round the yard, which is what it's there for.
@@ianmurray250 Shunt/inch chucks it out as heat. Series and parallel are series and parallel circuits so parallel is four times the power of series (Ohm's law)
"Alex"
"What?"
"I think that's it"
Alex looks at the cab thinking 'what have I missed?'
10:00 after, I can sense the sorrow within Alex, I can tell that he would love to spend just a moment longer with the train the started his career as a train driver. I've recently experienced the same feelings as my primary school moved into a new campus. A perfect display of the love and compassion from a driver who loves his hip and train. Like Alex, a kiss goodbye to the c stock, although I never got a chance to ride on one, may your legacy lives on.
P.S. in HK, where I live, we're facing the same situation and feelings soon as the old trains on our railway (the m-train and the MLR, both built by Metro Cammell) is going to be retired and presumably scrapped.
Fun fact :
the MLR mentioned above is based on the mark-3 based 2nd gen EMUs on the British mainline, namely the 317.
The m-train on the other hand is said to be based on the 67stock, although I saw more resemblance betweenthe m-train and the subsurface stocks, namely the C and D stock
Same with 10:35
Volker I would say the MTR stock sound more like 67 and 73 stock while C is also highly similar.
Jason yu Execpt they're more boxy and taller
@@volker8760 You say that the MLR is based on the Class 317 but that train was manufactured by BREL (British Rail Engineering Ltd), not Metro-Cammell.
Was there cooperation between the two companies?
The ending sequence, and the long shot of him staring down in silence, was a great bit of filmmaking.
I think he was looking at the brake pressure gauges…
You can see grenfell at 6:45 before the unexpected happened 💔
Same I thought that Rip.
And again closer at 7:30
@@hadrionics2755 I live in Germany, I didn't know and found the comment very informative.
It's good to be able to see Grenfell Tower. It's an important part of London's history, that we should never forget, just like the C Stock trains are.
It was expected
For anyone wondering, "series" is switched so several motors are lined up one after the other in the circuit - the current has to go through all of them, thus increasing resistance. When the controller is switched to "parallel," the current goes through each motor independently, thus there is less resistance. It's a very simple way of controlling acceleration, but it works.
And a shunt is a resistance put in series to give the "low" speed
And, on top of that, if I recall correctly, both series and parallel each have several stages of resistance that a relay or set of relays or contactors switch through automatically, based on the current being drawn by the motors. This ensures that (a) the motors don't overheat and, and (b) the train doesn't shake violently whenever starting to accelerate.
Outfrost I think you are referring to the RPA (rapid pneumatic accelerator), which could be heard in operation as the train accelerated from rest as a rhythmic clicking.
1:34 There's an even more exciting train, the 1960 Track Recording Train!
Did you know that there are still 1930 something stock Northern line trains running in regular service on the Island Line on the Isle of Wight?
@@RJE48 Yes, although the 1960TS is a much rarer sight, only two 1960TS trains are left. There's quite a few 1938TS carriages scattered around the UK. Plus this is officially the oldest running train on the Underground, as the A Stock is gone.
So that's what it is! I think I saw one once, years ago, and couldn't work out what it was - it was obviously an engineering train of some sort but beyond that I couldn't find any details. My description of it as "like an old train but armoured-looking" didn't help either, lol.
@@Dogtor_Orsum It's been quite a while since one of them saw service (withdrawn in 1994), and it has been changed quite a lot since it left service. There is one in original condition with the heritage livery in preservation. It is essentially two 1960 Stock DM's with a modified 1973 Stock Trailer. When in service, the units had 1938 Stock trailers instead.
It will probably be going in the next few years, with the 1973 Stock becoming available upon withdrawal, it will probably be heading to the scrapyard.
Jack Shiels the IOW ones are from 1938, 1960’s have only ever been on the underground
I used to drive these until 2003. But my favourite ones to work were the 59/62 stock. Had great times on those.
C stock were easily my favourites. Sorely missed, the wonderful sound of those motors brings back some fantastic memories...
The C Stock which originally served the Circle, Hammersmith & City and the Wimbledon to Edgware Road branch of the District line, passed over those duties to the S Stock. RIP C69/C77 stock. Thank you for many years of faithful service.
9:48 Alex said 5596 could be the last C stock and he was correct 5596 was the last C69 stock to run on the London Underground
speak of the devil
Intriguing to see at 1:35 what looks like a Cravens 1960 stock unit in the car shed alongside the S stock. A graphic demonstration of the size difference between tube and cut-and-cover rolling stock! (Edit: comments below confirm that it is the Track Recording Train formed of 1960 stock)
C69/C77 stock will always be my favorite underground train!! Miss not being able to travel in these wonderful trains.
I hope you're still around on TH-cam when they replace the old '72, '73 and '92 stock with the (still to be properly named) "new tube" in a few years time. Mainly because the other few videos on the transition from old to new stock have been fascinating. The only difference is we'll all be a lot older and greyer by then!
I miss these trains. I remember when they were unrefurbished. They may have been old when they were retired, but they had class.
Cheers Geoff, looks like a day out with someone who was happy to explain their work, thanks for posting up : )
Thank you for this (edited version) and that you've uploaded it here, Geoff! Love it! Jo
I just heard you on my Thameslink train to Brighton, it was so refreshing to hear your voice. It made me happy ☺️
A Fantastic and very informative documentary with great commentary. Thanks for uploading this! Cheers Peter
10:01 the look on Alex's face when he realized it was his last time 😥😥😥😥
haven’t began watching and i know this will be brilliant! thanks, geoff!
Finally the C stock documentary I have been waiting for. I love the C stock! 👍
The front, the flashing lights, the closing door sound and the announcements make me feel like the C-stock is just a larger version of the 1972 stock used on the Bakerloo line.
Essentially it was, they both date from the same period and are both built by the same manufacturer
I just sit and watch Geoffs videos all day everyday, unique thus is man
8:26 RIP Bubblecar :(
What's that doing there? 😂
@@Drawyah Used to run on the Aylesbury - Princes Risborough line until a few years ago
Thank you for uploading these :)
I really like your video as your explanation of the changes between the old and the new trains
I got an opportunity to ride a C stock train only once in my life, and I was too young a kid to remember anything. All I recall is it was a journey from King's Cross St. Pancras to Tower Hill, and it must've been on a C stock on the Circle. I only got to know them a bit through World of Subways later on.
It's a shame you missed their era, the 80s especially was a magical time on the lines and the C69 were integral.
Great video, thank you!
As a passenger, I never liked the C stock, they felt neglected, and it was really annoying when the lights would go out. The S stock is an improvement for passengers, but not so much for drivers
Lights flickering are fun
@@ElshadKarbasi no it's not, especially on the deep level tube it's really starting to get annoying lol
@MusicalElitist1
One of them malfunctioning caused chaos on the East Coast Line a few months back.
Rip Curl 69 there will always be issues with lighting momentarily going off due to the sectionalisation of traction current which is necessary where you have points etc and also where traction current sections end - it is arranged this way so that if traction current is discharged due to an incident at one station, it doesn’t bring the whole line to a halt. I’m confused that you say it’s starting to get annoying... it has always happened.
@@sabersz Nah its something we are going to miss!
Great video. I drove c stock from when they arrived. Rickmansworth crews hated them. They were happy when they were confined to met main only. For myself I loved them and drove them till I retired In July 2000.happy days.
I liked the C Stock for two reasons: The distinctive motor noise was very similar to Warp Drive on the original Star Trek. th-cam.com/video/_DN3KW3k0Ao/w-d-xo.html I always thought that the sound effects on the Bridge should have included a grasshopper-like compressor kicking in and out. Also, before the late 70's the suspension was all over the place giving the trains a really wide rocking motion and you could pretend to be surfing by not holding on (later rectified with dampers on the bogies).
World of subways vol. 3 anyone?
i was just playing
You read my mind.
god damn it how did you know haha
Oh sure mate, i'll just get my USB DVD Drive
YES! SOMETHING IVE BEEN WAITING FOR!
Loved the C Stock, interesting video. Liked the 1980s training video music at the beginning.
I shared a cab with Alex recently. Really cool dude!
I also miss the d stock train
oh i still remember driving on a stock, c stock and d stock 10 years ago.
7:36 this move still happens every week, only they join the Underground at West Ruislip now. You can usually see a train in the LUL sidings at West Ruislip.
The C stock was always my favourite
The C stock were cutting edge in the 1960s but the ride was rough. The S stock so smooth on the Circle Line.
The C Stock was genuinely the OG Tube Train they were amazing, they had nice LT117 DC Motors which sounded amazing and they had a really nice look and feel to them
I agree. I remember travelling on them quite a lot when I was up in the Wimbledon and central London areas.
Love these! And also you can still see these in World Of Subways 3 London underground circle line!
Jopu 700 I play that so much
It is sad. I spent my childhood going around the Underground on this stock.
Five years ago! The S Stock finished five years ago! I'm so old!
Good video, and what have I missed? Only starting going to London 3 years ago. Managed to get a D-stock single and only chance ride! No c-Stock :(
Great Video.... LOL my trips are off Pendy at Euston across the concourse... And then I'm a mole all day!
A fine historical piece Geoff Marshall
These are actually well good, do more of them! Because if you don't, I will find you, and I will.... Do something
Used to drive C stock 91-93,mostly pre refurb back then
Love the sound of the C stock moters
I miss the C and D Stock Train
Why is the 30 minute version unavailable?
I'm in no way complaining, purely curious. This documentary was great, and very well edited and narrated.
I can see why it might not be available on a physical DVD but perhaps Geoff might consider putting in on a pay-per-view streaming service if possible?
TH-cam allows that now @@erik_griswold
Erik Griswold it was on dvd but sold out and is very hard to get copies of now
Of you have WOs3 you can relive the entire moment..... I love it
quite possibly the video with the saddest ending - I got that same feeling with the last scene of the final episode of "Cheers"
Oh my god, I was so excited to see the tube station at Banbury haha
Shame we don't get to see Alex driving the S stock to see his reaction and hear his thoughts
Like most new tube stock, C-stock were a great improvement on the previous rolling stock in 1970, but old age, lower maintenance prior to replacement and passenger expectations all take their toll on passenger experience. The main difference is that C-stock are 1969 design mechanical and can be understood by drivers when they go wrong, S-stock is 2008 design with computerisation making it much harder for a driver to repair on the fly if required. On the other hand S stock can report potential problems before they happen. In theory although there is more to go wrong, less should. It'll be interesting to see what passengers think about S stock in 2048 when they are replaced with .... well goodness knows what London will need by then.
Awesome video
Awesome! Love the C Stock!
Hooray! Now off to the Tube to Barbican.
Great video 🤓
From 10:00 the real driver that loves his train sais goodbye
I think he was just watching the air pressure drop to know when to shut it down, but you could be right
Thank you, even though I vaguely remember them, I miss them a lot... S stock and S7 stock are too new and sterile.
2:38 - if you ever needed to know how to drive a train then this is THE video!
4:10 nice review of general physics intro to circuitry
I remember checking the installation of the Connect train radios and ancillary equipment on the C stock in Hammersmith Depot in about 2005/6. BTW doesn't Hammersmith Depot have the longest non thru carriage shed in the country? I seem to recollect that you could park up 3 C Stock trains in a row on the same road inside the shed.
I really miss the c stock
i live in banbury and i remember coming home on the train and seeing this and being so confused as to why a tube train was here 😂
I miss the c stock train
Compared to a traditional 9 notch controller and air brake, these look rather simple to operate. I like that the motor and brake controls are cleverly integrated.
Nah it’s complicated
Great video. Shuch a same a C Stock train wasn't preserved for working tours on the London Underground.
I do believe however that there is still a car in Acton depot
@@ec8451 There is but only as a static exhibit.
I can hear a lot of wheelslip... Sounds good.
Done a few Edgware rd - Wimbledon’s on these... not to mention a few Sunday circle duties. What are they doing with the triangle now? Does anything get stabled there? Nice to see the guards panel was still there.
Love the look of 'em
You should do a series on the 'track recording' trains of the tube - and other such maintenance trains on the tube. (Assuming TFL would let you).
Can't you put it up for resale? Really want to watch the rest
The 12 people that disliked this video do not belong here....
C stocks were my favourite tube trains
They live on in Eastenders' inside carriage shots. Last seen last Thursday on Eastenders.
Hi. Just noticed at 7:30 you can see Grenfell Tower on the right of the screen. Rest in Peace to those who died. 17/7/17
Are there any films of the old slam-door Metropolitan trains? I remember riding on those out of Baker St to Preston Rd in 1957 and again between Preston Rd and Wembley Pk en route to Stanmore.
in hammersmith there are H&C Circle district and piccadily
Now you C me, now you don’t!
The Bakerloo line must be the only line that has old stock in use still?? I hope they keep them running. I love going on that line and those old stock trains!!
The Piccadilly lie still has old stock in use (1973 stock,to be precise)
Hi Geoff, I see you are the director. I expect that means you get to say, 'Action!' and 'Cut!'
Perfect train wishlist: c stock model, c stock controller, AIR CON
Great pun
Bring back the P-Stock please!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
See those deliveries same time every week lol
Oh my God that title
Very interesting, by the way i do not think you could have had a more knowledgeable driver on the whole of the Underground then Alex.
That was fascinating! And now I know what's going on when drivers move that lever around. (See it a lot on tram videos, too - of older model trams). The train must be electrified by a third rail because there are no overheads. I wonder why different places electrify their trains differently?
The Underground uses fourth rail system as that's what was originally developed. Most of the old British Rail southern region use third rail as that was the standard in the late 19th/early 20th century, as well as many lines that run in narrow tunnels where there isn't room for overhead wires. Most services north of the Thames use overhead electrification due to it being more reliable and powerful (fastest third rail train can go 108mph versus 357.2mph for overhead) and they were mostly electrified in the last 50-60 years
@@agent_605 Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate it!
All hail the C69 stock! Hall of Fame Kings of LT!!
That was cool
Geoff have you ever thought of working on the Tube if so what would be
your ideal job ?
I miss the c stock really
Very nice. Why is the shot flipped at 8:58?
otherwise it wouldn't cut with the preceding shot.
or he just inserted a stock shot. See what I did there?
+-+-very clever
He probably didn't have enough footage at that particular station so he used footage recorded at a different stop earlier that day on the other side but then flipped it.
C stock is my favorite tube train. I find it really sad.
The C Stock was not a Tube train, it was a Sub-Surface Stock train
8.24 Was that tanker wagon behind the diesel locos in Amersham just coming down for the ride or was there a deeper purpose?
Did you that the s stock has the same announcements as the c stock except the mind the gap