I remember travelling on the A60/62 stock in their Heyday when I was a kid in the 1960's and 1970's. Catching a "Fast Amersham" home on a Sunday evening from platform 4 at Baker Street. It was always a lively journey between Finchley Road and Harrow-on the Hill in the days before they were restricted to 50mph, 70 mph was the norm on this section and it was probably a combination of the suspension and track quality that made it such. I was fortunate enough to be on the very last A stock train in September 2012 when for the final time 74 mph was achieved between Finchley Road and Neasden!! Sadly they are now gone but my happy childhood memories will always remain of the "adventures" they took me on in the big city.
In my short career as a guard on the metropolitan line ,I was getting driver experience on the A Stock and was told that when they came into service they would hit 90mph with ease and had to have the motors speed restricted . It was a non stop from Harrow to Baker street onward to Aldgate .
A Metropolitan Railway anecdote from the 1930s, source my father, then a young engineer. He was called out late one night because the escalators in one sector after another were stopping. He enquired which train(s) were operating, and was told "Just the night service train", this being outside the normal service hours. He asked "What train is it?" and was told "The new Metadyne train". Now, the metadyne trains were the first to provide regenerative braking, whereby braking was performed by passing energy back to the supply rail rather than just grinding it away in brake blocks. As there were no other trains out, there was no other path for the regenerated energy than such fixed auxiliaries as the escalators, so the line voltage soared - causing the circuit protection to trip due to its over-voltage function. John Derek Nelson Crosbie (called Derek) was born in 1913.
I really like the S8 trains, smooth and with a great view out of the large windows. The mixture of transverse and sideways seating works well on them too, a shame the Overground 710s out of Liverpool Street don't have a similar layout.
Likewise a pity there is no transverse seating on the North London line. They could at least have some at either end of the train where they don't obstruct walking through.
Good point, particularly considering its often eight cars, so there probably would have been space to have some of it, perhaps like on Elizabeth line stock where it is usually one bay per car.
I think its a mixture of commuter and metro style system (S-bahn). Although Crossrail extends to Reading, you should get off a Paddington to allow a faster connection. Realistically, the Waterloo and City line can also be considered a commuter rail as it's open Monday to Friday/Saturday (on the TFL home page, it says 'planned closure' some Saturdays?) and closed Sunday
@@annabelhollandYou are right about Reading, When I went on one trip to London, I had to go into Reading due to engineering problems and was tempted to take the Elizabeth Line in but decided on taking a fast train instead. I think it’s more of a commuter train for the stations between Reading and Paddington. That being said, I have used the Elizabeth Line a few times in London at it has been quite useful, air conditioning and also Jubliee Line style doors along and rather comfortable to sit in.
@@UrterOrterOnly the 315's and 317's which used to work the Overground services out of Liverpool Street, which were replaced by the 710's , and the diesels on the Gospel Oak to Barking line, which were transferred to the West Midlands when the line was electrified, had transverse seating. No plans to reintroduce them on the Overground, I'm afraid!
The problem with the transverse seating on the Met line, is the tendency for certain passengers to put their feet in outdoor footwear, on the opposite seat. Not possible with the longitudinal seating. There was a time when only yobs did it. Now it's common among average users. TFL refuse to put signs up that were seen on the old stock, requesting people desist from doing this. One of their rather inarticulate call staff told me after the new stock appeared, that was a matter for the BTP not them, as they are only the train operator.
The train staff are correct, it is up to the BTP to fine people who do that. If however people think that it's not going to be well enforced, then they will keep putting their feet on seats. The Kings Cross Underground Station fire was the result of no-smoking regulations being widely ignored and not being enforced.
@@tin2001 Well, with that logic, I urge you to apply to be a speech writer for the Conservative Party; Britain desperately needs a change of government at the next election.
You solved the mystery and the curiosity I had when I took the first ride on the metropolitan line from Liverpool Street station to Wembley some twenty years ago. At that time, I had absolutely no idea why the carriage so different from the rest of all other lines. The only thing is still in my vivid memories are that day was a bitterly cold and wet day when the carriage was fully packed with commuters, then somebody took the jump seat off at the end near the door to be better off a long ride with a heater beside which warmed up the entire carriage and made everyone inside felt a lot better!😊
I used to be one of those, "snobby" commuters at Baker Street Jago, and on big football events they announced, this train will also stop at Wembley Park, my heart sank!! 😆🧐
Nice bit of footage from Harrow-on-the-Hill met & Northwick Park Hospital (overground) Born in NWP hospital (mid 70’s) and many a day out in central London started at Harrow “Met”
I'm from the heart of Metroland (Harrow). I always liked the A60/62 stock they seemed big and roomy. The best bit of the journey home being the section between Finchley Road and Harrow on the Hill on a fast train. I can also remember sitting on the benches at Northwick Park watching the track move and bend as a fast train passed over them on the fast lines.
In metro NY the commuter trains of the LIRR had a bar car, and folks who road the same train every day even sequestered boards behind seats they could use to play bridge or other card games every night. With the coming of the M1 cars that vanished. A shame really.
I've always thought transverse seating was more practical to read which tube station you're at whereas on a long trip across country in a high back seat travelling backwards was the safest and more relaxing.
my understanding is that most situations where the safety of seats facing forward vs seats facing backwards is relevant, the forces involved are so great that the difference between the two is lost as statistical noise relative to just about any other factor. Though forwards/backwards vs sideways is significant.
Can't be that rich, they didn't manage to stop HS2 going through their back yards. But if you notice the high voltage pylons that go through the Wendover gap, they were supposed to go through the gap to the west where Chequers is. It was either Eden or Macmillan put a stop to that. Otherwise I suppose HS2 could have take that route. Can you imagine the uproar.
Note that London trams adopted transverse seating starting with the E1 Class in 1908, and retained that layout from then on. Trams run much shorter trips than suburban trains.
Not to mention virtually every bus in the country, apart sometimes from a bench seat above the rear wheels. Of course they had the advantage that all seats could always be forward facing, and that could also be achieved on tramcars with reversible seats.
@@iankemp1131Sideways seating on a bus comes with more safety and comfort concerns than on a relatively smooth and quick tube service. You don't have speed bumps, potholes, and other motorists to worry about on the tube.
Travelling frequently on the old Metropolitan stock in the 80's the heating was very poor. Getting on at Baker St. it wasn't until Harrow-on-the-Hill before you noticed that the heaters were actually working, not that the carriages were approaching warm.
Magnificent stuff, Jago, as ever. The A-Stock trains were wonderfully eccentric - out in Betjemanland they would whizz along at over 60 mph with a very distinct mechanical rasp from the traction motors and harmonics developing between the bogie suspension and the deeply sprung moquette seats (all those upper class bottoms!), sending one rocketing towards the (thankfully, high) ceiling. Happy days, I tell you.
Lovely video, Jago. I won't pretend for a moment that I didn't wonder why the Metro S stock had 8 carriages compared to the others. I also wondered why they had retained the "sideways seating." Once again, you provide a video I didn't know I needed. Carry on the good work, Sir!
I remember visiting Neasden depot in the early 1980s, and there were still one or two compartment motor coaches there as service stock. I remember that the electrical switchgear looked very antiquated.
Didnt Watkin have some ideas to reach Paris. Can you imagine a Metropolitan Railway running a High speed service from Manchester Piccadilly to Gare du Nord. A Metro to Metro link. Would make you proud to be British. Almost.
Yes,he did,as he was Chairman of the Great Central,whose London extension used trackage rights over the Metropolitan to Marylebone! And Watkin was tied into the original Chunnel project in the 1880's,or thereabouts! So there was a mixed up history there! Thank you 😇 😊!
He did and Jago has done a video on it. I've posted the link above but because TH-cam hates them it might not show but searching for "Jago Hazzard Paris" gave me the video as the first result
I remember going to Scotland from S Yorkshire, Holiday arranged by the school and the train did not have a corridor so the big tizer bottles came in useful.
That Baker St. station is so cool looking, like walking back into simpler times. I will be in Tower Hill in a few weeks, I'll have to see about tubing around London and hit that station when I'm there. London is so cool.
Favourite line on the tube? All of them. Most favourite train, all of it. Why, unique and also before the Olympics ruined London, the A stock was delightfully mysterious
It's probably just as well that electrification stopped at Amersham as beyond that, the distances between stations starts to get quite long: 5 Miles to Great Missenden and a further 4 Miles to Wendover. Would feel like an age on a Tube Stock train, and the overall journey time would increase.
Although there is a school of thought that TfL should take the services to Aylesbury back over and electrify the line with it being almost on a branch of it's own beyond Amersham
@@bartsimho1192 Chiltern Railways do run a good service, although the Class 165 'Turbo' is now rather dated, has really uncomfortable seating and a top speed of 75MPH (definitely needs replacing with a newer model). I'd like to see the whole line electrified eventually - if only to improve comfort and journey times.
There were plans to electrify to Aylesbury in the 1930s. When Kings Cross St Pancras was rebuilt from the old location there was a centre terminating platform which was supposed to be for Aylesbury trains.
i can confirm that (as a genteel resident of S. Bucks) when we use the Met, we're going into London and want to talk with our companions on the longish journey.
The old slam-doorstock included some compartments which had been first-class. They could be identfied from outside the train and were much sought after by experienced travellers as they provided more leg-room.
Met Line represent! I loved the old purpler interior trains with the transverse seating and boothish feel. The new ones with ac are incredible though. On a hot day the AC is incredible before a hot date and not looking like a sweaty mess.
What a great idea - having one's breakfast in the morning, during one's commute in the luxury of a Pullman car, and then, on the way back home, having one's supper. For a single man of means, it can't get better than that.
🍾🥂200-THOUSAND SUBSCRIBERS, 689 VIDEOS!!🚇 Congratulations and THANK YOU, Jago!! Your fascinating, witty, well-researched videos have provided MANY HOURS of enjoyment and enlightenment. I have seen nearly all of them-beer, model railways, Underground, Regent’s Canal…the whole lot! Your efforts have been appreciated by many, and I wish you continued success! 👍
You should never put in extra time and effort to do something that offends as few people as possible. When for minimum time and effort you can offend everyone equally.
Being myself a carpenter and joiner by trade of MANY , many years 😭 I truly appreciate the craftsmanship of those (coach)? Builders . I sound like a right sad old git 👴 .😊😊😊
Interesting that some London Underground rolling stock have arm rests; NYC subway cars historically has never really had them (only at the doors), even on the transverse seating models. The R44 through R68A models do have bucket seating: instead of people sitting on any spot on the bench, these bucket seats (theoretically) serve as default dividers. I've heard they got rid of that for newer trains because Americans tend to be more, well, rather rotund, so they would take up two seats anyway.
Transverse seating should be a standard on most underground lines, especially ones which travel at subsurface. It’s a lot easier to look out of the window when facing forward or backwards. With longitudinal seating you can’t look in one direction for too long before someone thinks you’re staring at them! Also longitudinal seating has a limited fixed view.
I once had someone come up and angrily accuse me of staring at her _through the reflection_ on my first cross-country solo train journey 😅 I tried to explain I like the scenery and she didn’t seem to believe anyone would look out the window rather than read a book! Crazy.
It's interesting how these things are different in different countries. In Switzerland, longitudinal seating is almost completely unseen. There are a few seats in some trains, trams and buses in specific spots because it probably made sense that way, but otherwise they don't exist, except on that one proper metro line we have, the m2 in Lausanne. Zurich's trams switched from longitudinal to transverse seating in 1928 and never switched back. Many other metro systems I've travelled on have transversal seating too. This strong favour for longitudinal seating for metros is something I primarily know from London and Milan. I'm glad this way of doing things isn't more popular, I don't like it because you can't really look out of the window all that well.
I look for myself in your videos on an increasingly regular basis Jago - we seem to be passing the same stations a day or so apart from your videos that cover them!
"Tolerate sitting backwards"?? Seats where your back is towards the direction of travel are statistical the safest seats to be in during a train crash as the deceleration pushes you into the seat rather than fling you from it into the seats opposite....... I 'tolerate' sitting facing towards the direction of travel!
very facinating watch about a history of a train line that I personally ahve to use very frequently! thank you for making this video it is very cool :)
More on the 1938 stock please, Jago. Especially if you can add smell-o vision. They had a curiously comforting odour, as long as you didn’t get in a smoking carriage.
You have reminded me about the A stock - when working in Dorset square near Baker Street station in the mid 2000s, a colleague and I would use our lunch breaks to see how far you can travel on the tube in an hour - I remember the A stock, elderly as it was, going like absolute stink as it head north through metroland!
Ah the Met, twas my favourite line when I was in my early teens back in the dim dark mid-1960s What fun could be had with 5 bob and a twin Rover and one never knew what exciting stuff could be seen at Neasden depot,often I would spy a LT pannier tank lurking in a distant siding away from the running lines. We savoured and clamoured for it, steam was disappearing, but of course up until 1966 you could still see mainline steam from Marylebone on Met metals, often seeing Black 5s at Harrow on the Hill Sadly the electric loco hauled services to Moorgate had finished by then so I never ever did see them running. I always thought the A60 stock was rather smart looking.. I see on your video a photo of some 1938 stock in its original interior style and also updated, I did like the old style, it was like your front room on wheels, I could imagine sitting there, and my dad listening to thr glorious old radio listening to the goons . Now everything is so functional and modern and you can sit there with your smart phone plugged into a usb port with free WiFi watching jagos video. Blimey I missed by stop, im at Amersham and should have alighted at Rickmansworth. But seeing as I went to Aus in the 1970s I miss my old tube journeys and the locals would refer to Rickmansworth as Ricko.
hi jago. i rather preffered transverse seating in all trains although it gives you a false sense of privacy they offered you a window to look out from. now one might say what is there to see in a london underground tunnel? actually plenty one can see other carriages when going round bends or the approaching station lights in the distance or even cross over tracks and tunnels open up to one wider tunnel then split into two tunnels again.
They were nice and comfy seats on the 1960s Met Line trains ! Mind you the suspension was a bit bouncy by the time I was using them in the Mid 1980s through to the Mid 90s . Going through Neadsen, over one of the sets of points at full bore, it could be a bit like being on a trampoline !
I really liked travelling on them in the late 00s too, not sure if they’d been rebuilt underneath but I don’t remember them being too bouncy. Occasionally I’d take the long way round just to get to use those comfier trains and airy stations, especially in the summer, when the alternative was half the time on a jam packed Central (etc) line.
The old Long Island had many branches with Parlor Cars,which were used by Commuter Clubs,who paid extra for additional services! The cars were also named! My old branch named cars,were the,"Locust Valley",and the," Oyster Bay",and they were hauled on the 2 morning and evening express trains! Oh,yes,during the Summer,the railroad ran a Parlor Car express,to Montauk,called the Cannonball,and it was one of the fastest trains on the railroad! They still run it today,however,with Double Decks! Some small history! Thank you! Thank you 😇 😊!!
@@lawrencelewis2592 Yes,there were bar cars on the branches too! The nice part,if you missed having coffee at home,you could get it,on the bar car,inbound,as it was a breakfast car in the morning! The conductors and trainmen,knew everbody,and they were,then PRR veterans,and gracious to the core!! The good old days,miss that terribly! Thank you! Thank you 😇 😊!
There were a lot of complaints about the A60 stock when it was introduced. LT had to produce a special poster with an explanation about why the design was necessary. Something like the contemporary Southern Region EMU would have been better received and done the job just as well.
It’s a wonder that the Southern Region never considered having similar stock at the time! I can see a A stock train covering Charing Cross to Gillingham via Woolwich Arsenal
Here in Copenhagen we got extra-wide S-trains to make more space for seating (thus the unusual shape) because a survey found that people were much more likely to take the train if they could get a proper seat, and that the majority hate longtitutional seats almost as much as standing. Because of this, and thanks to the wide trains, we have some seats that can fit 3 people if they squeeze together a bit. During the covid restrictions, these wide seats proved extra handy as people could still sit and keep an arms length between each other. On our trains it's fairly normal to travel for 20-30 minutes or more, and people generally don't like to stand in the train for that long, thus the need for seats to get people to take the train. We also have "leaning seats", something you can also find in the Paris Metro, which are standing spots with a padded bit along the wall so you can lean against it. Unfortunately most people don't like sitting that close to a stranger, especially after the covid, so our next generation S-trains, due to arrive in 2030-2040, will likely be a more normal train shape and have less seating, but they have not yet reached the point where they've started designing them
To be fair, people were never particularly happy about squeezing in the third person on those seats. At least not on the lines to Holte/Hillerød and Klampenborg. Not designing for it might make sense.
The metropolitan line is the black sheep amount the underground lines. It feels more like the overground or themeslink or other longer distance commuter trains.
Id say the Waterloo & City line is the black sheep. It’s just an express route with one stop. The met line does feel like a tube line from Aldgate to baker street, then after that it becomes more like thameslink or the Elizabeth line
Waaaaayyyyyy back, in the mists of time, there was a train design on the District Line, and I believe, the Metropolitan and Circle Lines, which had a flare on the lower part of the sides. I often wondered if there was a reason other than appearance for this. This would have been in the seventies/eighties.
That's an excellent idea! Here in Munich, they phased out my childhood iconic split screen Class 420 S-Bahn units in 2004, only to reintroduce two or three sets into normal service ten years later. By chance, I got to ride in one this evening and thought of my youthful self in the same train more years ago than I care to remember. The A-Stock is similarly iconic and should definitely be commemorated by a working train. If the DB can do it, TfL certainly can.
The refurbished 1938 stock has immediately had me going to wikipedia for an explanation. I presume from the Isle of Wight's use of them up until 2021? (!)
Yes, they used them on he Isle of Wight because normal trains would be too tall. I believe there is a tunnel on the island which had its trackbed raised to reduce flooding, reducing the height of the tunnel.
I love transverse seating. I loathe being on the Overground in a gigantic corridor on wheels being forced to listen to a hundred loud phone conversations.
I think that for this seated Tale from the Tube the opening should have been “Are you sitting comfortably?” I personally remember hearing those words on the “Wireless” from “The BBC Light Programme” and consider myself as “distinctly antiquated *” (* thanks Jago for that quote 😆). When it comes to any kind of travel now, a seat of any type is gratefully accepted.
0:52 I think that it is weird that they kept the transverse seating on the Bakerloo line, because I would have though it would have ripped out in a mid life refurbishment on the 1972 at some point, like what they did on the 1973 stock on the Piccadilly line in the late 1990s.
I think it wasn't possible to rip out the transverse seating on the Bakerloo Line stock because there is train running equipment under the seating. It would have been too difficult or expensive to re-site it.
@timhubbard8895 I don't really get that, because while the longitudinal seats would be hard to rip out (if someone in high ranks at tfl went insane) due to equipment running under there, I can't see why they couldn't basically trim the transverse seats, and fill in the gaps where the leg room is to create longitudinal seats. I suppose the 72 stock is different to 73 stock though with what is stores under the seats
The New York Subway has tow standards. One for the lines designated by a number, the other for lines designated by a letter. The letter trains are a bout afoot wider than the number trains. There are other parameters such as tunnel clearance, train height and width for station/platform compliance, etc. However, all NY subways use standard North American Gauge (1,435 mm ).
Been there. I was trying to explain to my son that there used to be a station there but I don't think he believed me. They have build large apartment block there on the basis of the Met line extension having a station at Ascot Road. Are the people who bought apartments there peed off when the extension was cancelled.
Of course the East London line used to use the A Stock too - I used to wonder what an S4 would be like - perhaps an S8 split in half with transverse seating? Or more akin to the S7+1? Doesn't matter of course as the Class 378s are all longitudinal and it's not the East London line anymore anyways! At least not officially...
Re, the arrangement of seating on Met line trains: I can only speak about my childhood years but in the 70s and 80s ALL Met line services (outside the morning and evening peaks) terminated at Baker St. I doubt the A60 stock was ever intended to operate as a metro service. Also, one little remembered fact: there used to be 1 train in the morning rush hour that ran fast from Rayners Lane to Finchley Road - my father used to catch it.
I occasionally caught that train too, as well as the evening service running fast from Finchley Road to Rayners Lane. There was also a single peak-hour 'fast' Chesham service between Finchley Road and Moor Park.
Yes, the all-day extensions to Aldgate commenced in the late 80's, shortly after Thameslink trains started servibg Farringdon. The Amersham and Uxbridge trains mostly went to Aldgate, whist the Watford ones outside the peaks continued to terminste at Baker Street. Through trains to Chesham were still seldom then.
You should make a video on why the train starts and slows down on the central line train sometimes. Apparently it’s because people lean on the doors while it starts.
Correct. It is due to leaning on the doors. Often unintentionally as they stumble... Then stumble the other way when the acceleration becomes deceleration again. This is why it's often a short pause in acceleration rather than a full on stopping. Why it happens on some lines and not others is mostly down to the door mechanisms being different, so some can withstand the pushing better than others.
Oddly, there are some Met Line trains which are entirely longitudinal - it always throws me when I get on one of those trains as I generally gravitate towards the transversal seating.
Those are the S7 trains which run on District, Hammersmith & City and Circle lines; the top half of the latter shares track with the Met line between Aldgate and Baker St.
Great photography as usual Jago, and interesting angled shots from unusual positions. I love "The Met" and travelled in the compartment stock many times in the late 50's, early 60's when I lived in Harrow. The change to steam at Ricky was very slick, taking a few minutes.
its similar to coaches and buses on the roads, Coaches which are built for long distance journeys ALWAYS have seats facing forward(or backward on a few cool swanky ones), but buses, which are built for shorter journeys have a mixture of sideways and forward or backward facing seats
Maybe an idea for a future video, if it hasn't been covered before: the history of *smoking* on the Underground. Unless my memory deceives me, some Tube trains had smoking carriages up to at least the 1970s. Smoking on the Underground (trains and stations) was completely banned after the Kings Cross fire of 1987, which was blamed on discarded cigarettes, but I suspect that smoking on trains was phased out before then.
Yes, there were definitely smoking carriages on the tube. In the 60s and 70s I think it was at least 2 per train, typically the second one in from each end IIRC. At the time, British Rail trains had more smoking carriages/sections than non-smoking. The pendulum gradually swung.
As I remember, they were not called smoking carriages explicitly, at least in later years. Rather, the non-smoking carriages had "No Smoking" signs and the "smoking" carriages had no signs on the matter. Historically, some trains did have "Smoking" labels on some compartments, certainly on some main line trains but I don't know if the Underground ever did.
@@dukenukem5768 Yes, good reminder. Hence the old "Nosmo King" joke. On British Rail the No Smoking carriages originally had a red triangle on the windows and later on a red circle. Some very old preserved carriages have "Smoking" etched into the glass, I think from 100+ years ago. After that it became assumed that allowing smoking was the norm unless indicated otherwise. Likewise if you went into a pub or restaurant you came out stinking of smoke which clung to your clothes for days (especially wool). Gone without regret.
Ah, the daily grind - neither up or down, nor forwards or backwards - but forever going sideways. On an underground system built by a surface train banker & an elevated railway one! Not sure about golf courses, but maybe a doorless dining car with toilets could be tagged onto the end of a tube train - like a brake van, but Greggs..? 🤔
Actually, as there are cabs you can't walk through at both ends, a walk-thru dining & toilet van might have to go in the middle - with a bit more selective door opening too. But, like locos of old, maybe the cabs could be separate - likewise letting passenger cars be identical...
Thanks Jago - this is such an interesting video. I've always found the Metropolitan Line the most interesting of all the Underground lines, mainly because of its history (as the oldest of the Underground lines), its stations (which are sited all the way into Buckinghamshire, like Stoke Mandeville and Verney Junction), and its trains. It always fascinated me how, even when the Metropolitan Line included the Barking - Hammersmith section (which is now the Hammersmith and City Line), it still felt it was two different lines. The longer trains, which you'd see from Aldgate and Baker Street, never ran from Hammersmith to Barking/Whitechapel, and the shorter trains, which almost exclusively had interiors of transverse seating, never ran from Aldgate to Amersham / Chesham / Watford (although they might have run from Aldgate to Uxbridge). It may only have been on one or two occasions that I observed the longer Metropolitan Line trains at East Ham, running from Barking out to Amersham, before the creation of the Hammersmith and City Line. It would have been something to have travelled from Barking out to Amersham/Chesham on a transverse-seated Metropolitan Line train. 🚇 ❤ 👏🏾 Thanks Jago 👍🏾
While in the U.S. NY and Boston have mostly longitudinal seats as they operate more conventional metro services while most other are more commuter like and have transverse seats primarily.
The Metropolitan Line is still the busiest tube line and yes it went as far as Buckinghamshire before it ends at Amersham and the S8 Stocks have made such good improvements since it came into service in 2013.
When you look at Brunel's Great Way Round to Oxford, you can see why Watkin was eager to promote an alternative in the 1870s. I still find it hard to believe that a city gent could board a Pullman at Verney Jc: a terminus so remote that it is not being reopened when Bletchley-Bicester is restored. Comparable runs out of London such as Victoria-Uckfield had no on-board catering at all, though you could buy picnic baskets at some LBSCR stations.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
I loved this as a snob living on the Herts/Bucks border. My elderly mum said that if tube lines were supermarkets the Met would be Waitrose.
😂😂😂😂
@@leighmenzie5904 Not Waitrose more like fortnum and mason.
I remember travelling on the A60/62 stock in their Heyday when I was a kid in the 1960's and 1970's. Catching a "Fast Amersham" home on a Sunday evening from platform 4 at Baker Street. It was always a lively journey between Finchley Road and Harrow-on the Hill in the days before they were restricted to 50mph, 70 mph was the norm on this section and it was probably a combination of the suspension and track quality that made it such. I was fortunate enough to be on the very last A stock train in September 2012 when for the final time 74 mph was achieved between Finchley Road and Neasden!! Sadly they are now gone but my happy childhood memories will always remain of the "adventures" they took me on in the big city.
I have it on good authority that A-Stock could hit 80mph on that section when running Empty 😉
@@SportyMabamba It always felt like 80 even when it wasn't!
In my short career as a guard on the metropolitan line ,I was getting driver experience on the A Stock and was told that when they came into service they would hit 90mph with ease and had to have the motors speed restricted . It was a non stop from Harrow to Baker street onward to Aldgate .
I used to love the A stock before it was slowed down. The bounciness was great fun!
Yes I remember it being a very bouncy ride.
A Metropolitan Railway anecdote from the 1930s, source my father, then a young engineer.
He was called out late one night because the escalators in one sector after another were stopping. He enquired which train(s) were operating, and was told "Just the night service train", this being outside the normal service hours. He asked "What train is it?" and was told "The new Metadyne train". Now, the metadyne trains were the first to provide regenerative braking, whereby braking was performed by passing energy back to the supply rail rather than just grinding it away in brake blocks. As there were no other trains out, there was no other path for the regenerated energy than such fixed auxiliaries as the escalators, so the line voltage soared - causing the circuit protection to trip due to its over-voltage function.
John Derek Nelson Crosbie (called Derek) was born in 1913.
I really like the S8 trains, smooth and with a great view out of the large windows. The mixture of transverse and sideways seating works well on them too, a shame the Overground 710s out of Liverpool Street don't have a similar layout.
Well I mean those services get quite busy.
Likewise a pity there is no transverse seating on the North London line. They could at least have some at either end of the train where they don't obstruct walking through.
Good point, particularly considering its often eight cars, so there probably would have been space to have some of it, perhaps like on Elizabeth line stock where it is usually one bay per car.
Umbrella racks in trains might be the most British things ever.
They should certainly have them on the Manchester trams!
Because it never rains in American cities, does it.
@@rosiefay7283 Why would you think I am American?
@rosiefay7283 Our rain isn't so depressing
@@rosiefay7283 Pacific Northwest cities like Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver gets more rain than London
The simple fact is that we Metrolanders are special and deserve better trains. No mystery here. 😄
What's great with the Elizabeth line is that it has a train stock as big as the one of sub-surface lines, but runs very deep.
so you're saying that deep down it's like an overground train ;)
I think its a mixture of commuter and metro style system (S-bahn). Although Crossrail extends to Reading, you should get off a Paddington to allow a faster connection. Realistically, the Waterloo and City line can also be considered a commuter rail as it's open Monday to Friday/Saturday (on the TFL home page, it says 'planned closure' some Saturdays?) and closed Sunday
@@annabelhollandYou are right about Reading, When I went on one trip to London, I had to go into Reading due to engineering problems and was tempted to take the Elizabeth Line in but decided on taking a fast train instead. I think it’s more of a commuter train for the stations between Reading and Paddington.
That being said, I have used the Elizabeth Line a few times in London at it has been quite useful, air conditioning and also Jubliee Line style doors along and rather comfortable to sit in.
I love transversal seating, it feels more like a train rather than a tube
Wish they did it with the overground
@@UrterOrterOnly the 315's and 317's which used to work the Overground services out of Liverpool Street, which were replaced by the 710's , and the diesels on the Gospel Oak to Barking line, which were transferred to the West Midlands when the line was electrified, had transverse seating. No plans to reintroduce them on the Overground, I'm afraid!
What do you class as a 'train' then? I've always counted tube trains as, well, trains.
@@hadrionics2755 I guess it would be classed as a metro train
@@hadrionics2755like gives it a ‘suburban railway’/‘commuter train’ feel rather than a ‘metro’/‘rapid transit’ feel
The problem with the transverse seating on the Met line, is the tendency for certain passengers to put their feet in outdoor footwear, on the opposite seat. Not possible with the longitudinal seating. There was a time when only yobs did it. Now it's common among average users. TFL refuse to put signs up that were seen on the old stock, requesting people desist from doing this. One of their rather inarticulate call staff told me after the new stock appeared, that was a matter for the BTP not them, as they are only the train operator.
The train staff are correct, it is up to the BTP to fine people who do that. If however people think that it's not going to be well enforced, then they will keep putting their feet on seats. The Kings Cross Underground Station fire was the result of no-smoking regulations being widely ignored and not being enforced.
That grates me so much. Unbelievable igonerance.
@@ktipuss
One would hope no fires or other catastrophes would come from feet on seats... But you never know until it happens, I guess.
It’s possible with narrow tube trains but not as socially acceptable.
@@tin2001 Well, with that logic, I urge you to apply to be a speech writer for the Conservative Party; Britain desperately needs a change of government at the next election.
You solved the mystery and the curiosity I had when I took the first ride on the metropolitan line from
Liverpool Street station to Wembley some twenty years ago. At that time, I had absolutely no idea why the carriage so different from the rest of all other lines. The only thing is still in my vivid memories are that day was a bitterly cold and wet day when the carriage was fully packed with commuters, then somebody took the jump seat off at the end near the door to be better off a long ride with a heater beside which warmed up the entire carriage and made everyone inside felt a lot better!😊
I used to be one of those, "snobby" commuters at Baker Street Jago, and on big football events they announced, this train will also stop at Wembley Park, my heart sank!! 😆🧐
Hi Jago from Spain. Yes, I remember the slam-door stock on the Met and how crowded they used to be when there was a match on at Wembley.
And survived longer than the 50s into the early 60s.
Nice bit of footage from Harrow-on-the-Hill met & Northwick Park Hospital (overground)
Born in NWP hospital (mid 70’s) and many a day out in central London started at Harrow “Met”
I'm from the heart of Metroland (Harrow). I always liked the A60/62 stock they seemed big and roomy. The best bit of the journey home being the section between Finchley Road and Harrow on the Hill on a fast train. I can also remember sitting on the benches at Northwick Park watching the track move and bend as a fast train passed over them on the fast lines.
"The old cars had compartments, 40 years old and distinctly antiquated."
*1972 and 1973 stock* : We're saying nothing!
Supper and Cocktails would make a lovely end to ones day.
In metro NY the commuter trains of the LIRR had a bar car, and folks who road the same train every day even sequestered boards behind seats they could use to play bridge or other card games every night. With the coming of the M1 cars that vanished. A shame really.
I miss the A Stock on the Met. Those huge comfy high back sprung seats you sank into for long journeys.
I've always thought transverse seating was more practical to read which tube station you're at whereas on a long trip across country in a high back seat travelling backwards was the safest and more relaxing.
my understanding is that most situations where the safety of seats facing forward vs seats facing backwards is relevant, the forces involved are so great that the difference between the two is lost as statistical noise relative to just about any other factor. Though forwards/backwards vs sideways is significant.
Ive always thiught you can use your ears for that
"There are two reasons. One is scientific, apparently, and the other relates to rich people in Buckinghamshire"
Can't be that rich, they didn't manage to stop HS2 going through their back yards. But if you notice the high voltage pylons that go through the Wendover gap, they were supposed to go through the gap to the west where Chequers is. It was either Eden or Macmillan put a stop to that. Otherwise I suppose HS2 could have take that route. Can you imagine the uproar.
Note that London trams adopted transverse seating starting with the E1 Class in 1908, and retained that layout from then on. Trams run much shorter trips than suburban trains.
Not to mention virtually every bus in the country, apart sometimes from a bench seat above the rear wheels. Of course they had the advantage that all seats could always be forward facing, and that could also be achieved on tramcars with reversible seats.
@@iankemp1131Sideways seating on a bus comes with more safety and comfort concerns than on a relatively smooth and quick tube service. You don't have speed bumps, potholes, and other motorists to worry about on the tube.
Property prices in Metroland have gone up a bit since that poster was made.
Travelling frequently on the old Metropolitan stock in the 80's the heating was very poor. Getting on at Baker St. it wasn't until Harrow-on-the-Hill before you noticed that the heaters were actually working, not that the carriages were approaching warm.
Magnificent stuff, Jago, as ever. The A-Stock trains were wonderfully eccentric - out in Betjemanland they would whizz along at over 60 mph with a very distinct mechanical rasp from the traction motors and harmonics developing between the bogie suspension and the deeply sprung moquette seats (all those upper class bottoms!), sending one rocketing towards the (thankfully, high) ceiling. Happy days, I tell you.
I just found your channel and you answered questions I didn't even know I had
thank you :)
Lovely video, Jago. I won't pretend for a moment that I didn't wonder why the Metro S stock had 8 carriages compared to the others. I also wondered why they had retained the "sideways seating." Once again, you provide a video I didn't know I needed. Carry on the good work, Sir!
I must say, I do miss the A stock, the seats were so comfortable and they felt absolutely huge compared to the S Stock
Those trains were unimaginably bumpy.
@N330AA that was half the fun of them though. 😅😂😅
I remember visiting Neasden depot in the early 1980s, and there were still one or two compartment motor coaches there as service stock. I remember that the electrical switchgear looked very antiquated.
Didnt Watkin have some ideas to reach Paris. Can you imagine a Metropolitan Railway running a High speed service from Manchester Piccadilly to Gare du Nord. A Metro to Metro link. Would make you proud to be British. Almost.
th-cam.com/video/Zi_TgJs_Daw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=wzFUkSP4LN1HQ7ER
Yes,he did,as he was Chairman of the Great Central,whose London extension used trackage rights over the Metropolitan to Marylebone! And Watkin was tied into the original Chunnel project in the 1880's,or thereabouts! So there was a mixed up history there! Thank you 😇 😊!
He did and Jago has done a video on it. I've posted the link above but because TH-cam hates them it might not show but searching for "Jago Hazzard Paris" gave me the video as the first result
I remember going to Scotland from S Yorkshire, Holiday arranged by the school and the train did not have a corridor so the big tizer bottles came in useful.
That Baker St. station is so cool looking, like walking back into simpler times. I will be in Tower Hill in a few weeks, I'll have to see about tubing around London and hit that station when I'm there. London is so cool.
Favourite line on the tube? All of them. Most favourite train, all of it. Why, unique and also before the Olympics ruined London, the A stock was delightfully mysterious
Of course, if you are over 6ft tall and all your height is in your legs, using the logitudinal seats doesn't offer much space for others to stand. 😀
I used to commute via the Metropolitan every day on the A60 and A62 stock so this video was news to me about the 'new' trains!
It's probably just as well that electrification stopped at Amersham as beyond that, the distances between stations starts to get quite long: 5 Miles to Great Missenden and a further 4 Miles to Wendover.
Would feel like an age on a Tube Stock train, and the overall journey time would increase.
Although there is a school of thought that TfL should take the services to Aylesbury back over and electrify the line with it being almost on a branch of it's own beyond Amersham
@@bartsimho1192 Chiltern Railways do run a good service, although the Class 165 'Turbo' is now rather dated, has really uncomfortable seating and a top speed of 75MPH (definitely needs replacing with a newer model). I'd like to see the whole line electrified eventually - if only to improve comfort and journey times.
There were plans to electrify to Aylesbury in the 1930s. When Kings Cross St Pancras was rebuilt from the old location there was a centre terminating platform which was supposed to be for Aylesbury trains.
Nice to see Sir Edward Watkin putting in another appearance! One misses him when he’s not there, just like Charles Tyson Yerkes.
I remember travelling on the Tube in the 60s and the floor was wooden slats with gaps.
1938 stock was like that
Captivating, Mr H, and entirely to your usual excellent standard. Thank you. Simon T
i can confirm that (as a genteel resident of S. Bucks) when we use the Met, we're going into London and want to talk with our companions on the longish journey.
The old slam-doorstock included some compartments which had been first-class. They could be identfied from outside the train and were much sought after by experienced travellers as they provided more leg-room.
And woman only compartments.
Met Line represent! I loved the old purpler interior trains with the transverse seating and boothish feel. The new ones with ac are incredible though. On a hot day the AC is incredible before a hot date and not looking like a sweaty mess.
What a great idea - having one's breakfast in the morning, during one's commute in the luxury of a Pullman car, and then, on the way back home, having one's supper.
For a single man of means, it can't get better than that.
Last week I went on a frankenstein train that was mostly made up of circle line carriages between Baker Street and Uxbridge
Congrats on 200,000 subscribers 🎉
🍾🥂200-THOUSAND SUBSCRIBERS, 689 VIDEOS!!🚇
Congratulations and THANK YOU, Jago!! Your fascinating, witty, well-researched videos have provided MANY HOURS of enjoyment and enlightenment. I have seen nearly all of them-beer, model railways, Underground, Regent’s Canal…the whole lot! Your efforts have been appreciated by many, and I wish you continued success! 👍
You should never put in extra time and effort to do something that offends as few people as possible. When for minimum time and effort you can offend everyone equally.
What are you talking about?
Fairness. @@ajs41
@@ajs41Watch the video
Waffling pointlessly doesn’t make you any less stupid than you are, pal.
A gentleman never offends anyone unintentionally.
Being myself a carpenter and joiner by trade of MANY , many years 😭 I truly appreciate the craftsmanship of those (coach)? Builders . I sound like a right sad old git 👴 .😊😊😊
I loved the ransverse seating on A60 , 1938, 56 , 62 and 72 stock
I have recently found your channel and as someone who used to live in London and frequently used The Tube I am really enjoying these videos.
Always enjoy travelling on the Metropolitan trains. A word should be put in to watch the classic John Betjeman film 'Metroland'.
Love the old met trains it was like being on a roller coaster
Trains are wonderful. People from different countries whom may not really care for people from another country but will still love the Trains
Interesting that some London Underground rolling stock have arm rests; NYC subway cars historically has never really had them (only at the doors), even on the transverse seating models. The R44 through R68A models do have bucket seating: instead of people sitting on any spot on the bench, these bucket seats (theoretically) serve as default dividers. I've heard they got rid of that for newer trains because Americans tend to be more, well, rather rotund, so they would take up two seats anyway.
Transverse seating should be a standard on most underground lines, especially ones which travel at subsurface. It’s a lot easier to look out of the window when facing forward or backwards. With longitudinal seating you can’t look in one direction for too long before someone thinks you’re staring at them!
Also longitudinal seating has a limited fixed view.
I once had someone come up and angrily accuse me of staring at her _through the reflection_ on my first cross-country solo train journey 😅 I tried to explain I like the scenery and she didn’t seem to believe anyone would look out the window rather than read a book! Crazy.
Good video Jago… gosh I miss the old A Stock..
It's interesting how these things are different in different countries. In Switzerland, longitudinal seating is almost completely unseen. There are a few seats in some trains, trams and buses in specific spots because it probably made sense that way, but otherwise they don't exist, except on that one proper metro line we have, the m2 in Lausanne. Zurich's trams switched from longitudinal to transverse seating in 1928 and never switched back.
Many other metro systems I've travelled on have transversal seating too. This strong favour for longitudinal seating for metros is something I primarily know from London and Milan. I'm glad this way of doing things isn't more popular, I don't like it because you can't really look out of the window all that well.
i think Swiss cities aren't as densely populated and overcrowded as London or New York so don't need longitudinal seating
I look for myself in your videos on an increasingly regular basis Jago - we seem to be passing the same stations a day or so apart from your videos that cover them!
I really miss the old A60 and A62 stock, definitely the best post war underground trains.
"Tolerate sitting backwards"?? Seats where your back is towards the direction of travel are statistical the safest seats to be in during a train crash as the deceleration pushes you into the seat rather than fling you from it into the seats opposite.......
I 'tolerate' sitting facing towards the direction of travel!
The 1973 Stock is a year older than me.
And looks better for its age than I do 😅
very facinating watch about a history of a train line that I personally ahve to use very frequently! thank you for making this video it is very cool :)
Heard at Moor Park said by a teen in group. “My Mum says we should not travel to Watford as it’s not a safe place” 😂😂
More on the 1938 stock please, Jago. Especially if you can add smell-o vision. They had a curiously comforting odour, as long as you didn’t get in a smoking carriage.
You have reminded me about the A stock - when working in Dorset square near Baker Street station in the mid 2000s, a colleague and I would use our lunch breaks to see how far you can travel on the tube in an hour - I remember the A stock, elderly as it was, going like absolute stink as it head north through metroland!
Congrats on 200k subscribers Jago!
Ah the Met, twas my favourite line when I was in my early teens back in the dim dark mid-1960s
What fun could be had with 5 bob and a twin Rover and one never knew what exciting stuff could be seen at Neasden depot,often I would spy a LT pannier tank lurking in a distant siding away from the running lines.
We savoured and clamoured for it, steam was disappearing, but of course up until 1966 you could still see mainline steam from Marylebone on Met metals, often seeing Black 5s at Harrow on the Hill
Sadly the electric loco hauled services to Moorgate had finished by then so I never ever did see them running.
I always thought the A60 stock was rather smart looking..
I see on your video a photo of some 1938 stock in its original interior style and also updated, I did like the old style, it was like your front room on wheels, I could imagine sitting there, and my dad listening to thr glorious old radio listening to the goons .
Now everything is so functional and modern and you can sit there with your smart phone plugged into a usb port with free WiFi watching jagos video.
Blimey I missed by stop, im at Amersham and should have alighted at Rickmansworth.
But seeing as I went to Aus in the 1970s I miss my old tube journeys and the locals would refer to Rickmansworth as Ricko.
hi jago. i rather preffered transverse seating in all trains although it gives you a false sense of privacy they offered you a window to look out from. now one might say what is there to see in a london underground tunnel? actually plenty one can see other carriages when going round bends or the approaching station lights in the distance or even cross over tracks and tunnels open up to one wider tunnel then split into two tunnels again.
They were nice and comfy seats on the 1960s Met Line trains ! Mind you the suspension was a bit bouncy by the time I was using them in the Mid 1980s through to the Mid 90s . Going through Neadsen, over one of the sets of points at full bore, it could be a bit like being on a trampoline !
The Piccadilly Line between Acton and Hammersmith is like that too.
I really liked travelling on them in the late 00s too, not sure if they’d been rebuilt underneath but I don’t remember them being too bouncy. Occasionally I’d take the long way round just to get to use those comfier trains and airy stations, especially in the summer, when the alternative was half the time on a jam packed Central (etc) line.
The old Long Island had many branches with Parlor Cars,which were used by Commuter Clubs,who paid extra for additional services! The cars were also named! My old branch named cars,were the,"Locust Valley",and the," Oyster Bay",and they were hauled on the 2 morning and evening express trains! Oh,yes,during the Summer,the railroad ran a Parlor Car express,to Montauk,called the Cannonball,and it was one of the fastest trains on the railroad! They still run it today,however,with Double Decks! Some small history! Thank you! Thank you 😇 😊!!
I seem to recall that there were bar cars on the LIRR. I never saw one but did see them on the Metro-North trains going to Connecticut.
@@lawrencelewis2592 Yes,there were bar cars on the branches too! The nice part,if you missed having coffee at home,you could get it,on the bar car,inbound,as it was a breakfast car in the morning! The conductors and trainmen,knew everbody,and they were,then PRR veterans,and gracious to the core!! The good old days,miss that terribly! Thank you! Thank you 😇 😊!
There were a lot of complaints about the A60 stock when it was introduced. LT had to produce a special poster with an explanation about why the design was necessary. Something like the contemporary Southern Region EMU would have been better received and done the job just as well.
It’s a wonder that the Southern Region never considered having similar stock at the time! I can see a A stock train covering Charing Cross to Gillingham via Woolwich Arsenal
Here in Copenhagen we got extra-wide S-trains to make more space for seating (thus the unusual shape) because a survey found that people were much more likely to take the train if they could get a proper seat, and that the majority hate longtitutional seats almost as much as standing. Because of this, and thanks to the wide trains, we have some seats that can fit 3 people if they squeeze together a bit. During the covid restrictions, these wide seats proved extra handy as people could still sit and keep an arms length between each other. On our trains it's fairly normal to travel for 20-30 minutes or more, and people generally don't like to stand in the train for that long, thus the need for seats to get people to take the train. We also have "leaning seats", something you can also find in the Paris Metro, which are standing spots with a padded bit along the wall so you can lean against it.
Unfortunately most people don't like sitting that close to a stranger, especially after the covid, so our next generation S-trains, due to arrive in 2030-2040, will likely be a more normal train shape and have less seating, but they have not yet reached the point where they've started designing them
To be fair, people were never particularly happy about squeezing in the third person on those seats. At least not on the lines to Holte/Hillerød and Klampenborg. Not designing for it might make sense.
The metropolitan line is the black sheep amount the underground lines. It feels more like the overground or themeslink or other longer distance commuter trains.
More like the only white sheep. The Met was and will always be a Railway, the... others... are just tube lines.
It is the original underground line. All the others are youthful degenerates.
Id say the Waterloo & City line is the black sheep. It’s just an express route with one stop. The met line does feel like a tube line from Aldgate to baker street, then after that it becomes more like thameslink or the Elizabeth line
Need to bring back the Pullman services to the underground
Waaaaayyyyyy back, in the mists of time, there was a train design on the District Line, and I believe, the Metropolitan and Circle Lines, which had a flare on the lower part of the sides. I often wondered if there was a reason other than appearance for this. This would have been in the seventies/eighties.
That was the R stock of 1938 and 1949. I think it's covered somewhere.
@@iankemp1131 Cheers mate.
I thought it looked ugly, made me think of an old lady running with the hem of her skirt held up.
@@dukenukem5768 I agree, they were ugly. They also rattled a lot, too.
a nice tube trip to Manchester, Edward was involved in many a line
I really miss the A stock. I wish they kept a whole trainset in working order like the 38 stock.
I miss the A Stock too, but the air conditioning on their replacements certainly cools them down a bit on a hot day!
I believe at least one A Stock unit is retained as a railhead treatment train.
They were planning to however they found asbestos in it
Had way better seats.
That's an excellent idea! Here in Munich, they phased out my childhood iconic split screen Class 420 S-Bahn units in 2004, only to reintroduce two or three sets into normal service ten years later. By chance, I got to ride in one this evening and thought of my youthful self in the same train more years ago than I care to remember. The A-Stock is similarly iconic and should definitely be commemorated by a working train. If the DB can do it, TfL certainly can.
The refurbished 1938 stock has immediately had me going to wikipedia for an explanation. I presume from the Isle of Wight's use of them up until 2021? (!)
Yes, they used them on he Isle of Wight because normal trains would be too tall. I believe there is a tunnel on the island which had its trackbed raised to reduce flooding, reducing the height of the tunnel.
Footage of said stock in this video is from the London Transport Museum’s Acton depot.
I love transverse seating. I loathe being on the Overground in a gigantic corridor on wheels being forced to listen to a hundred loud phone conversations.
"Corridor on wheels" - brilliant and so true. Thank you for the laugh
There are a few metros around the World that have no seating in some carriages. Bangkok of one. Bring back coal trucks.
Unfortunately the overground is too busy to have transverse seating, the east London line gets just as packed as the tube during peak hours
I think that for this seated Tale from the Tube the opening should have been “Are you sitting comfortably?” I personally remember hearing those words on the “Wireless” from “The BBC Light Programme” and consider myself as “distinctly antiquated *” (* thanks Jago for that quote 😆).
When it comes to any kind of travel now, a seat of any type is gratefully accepted.
0:52 I think that it is weird that they kept the transverse seating on the Bakerloo line, because I would have though it would have ripped out in a mid life refurbishment on the 1972 at some point, like what they did on the 1973 stock on the Piccadilly line in the late 1990s.
I think it wasn't possible to rip out the transverse seating on the Bakerloo Line stock because there is train running equipment under the seating.
It would have been too difficult or expensive to re-site it.
That was always my favourite thing about the Bakerloo line in less busy times of weekdays!
@timhubbard8895 I don't really get that, because while the longitudinal seats would be hard to rip out (if someone in high ranks at tfl went insane) due to equipment running under there, I can't see why they couldn't basically trim the transverse seats, and fill in the gaps where the leg room is to create longitudinal seats. I suppose the 72 stock is different to 73 stock though with what is stores under the seats
The New York Subway has tow standards. One for the lines designated by a number, the other for lines designated by a letter. The letter trains are a bout afoot wider than the number trains. There are other parameters such as tunnel clearance, train height and width for station/platform compliance, etc. However, all NY subways use standard North American Gauge (1,435 mm ).
Can you make a video on the abandoned railway station in Croxley. I’d love to know a bit more about it.
Been there. I was trying to explain to my son that there used to be a station there but I don't think he believed me. They have build large apartment block there on the basis of the Met line extension having a station at Ascot Road. Are the people who bought apartments there peed off when the extension was cancelled.
Supreme joinery on those early carriages
Of course the East London line used to use the A Stock too - I used to wonder what an S4 would be like - perhaps an S8 split in half with transverse seating? Or more akin to the S7+1?
Doesn't matter of course as the Class 378s are all longitudinal and it's not the East London line anymore anyways! At least not officially...
I kind of like the idea of having old-style cabins. Feels more luxurious.
Re, the arrangement of seating on Met line trains: I can only speak about my childhood years but in the 70s and 80s ALL Met line services (outside the morning and evening peaks) terminated at Baker St. I doubt the A60 stock was ever intended to operate as a metro service. Also, one little remembered fact: there used to be 1 train in the morning rush hour that ran fast from Rayners Lane to Finchley Road - my father used to catch it.
I occasionally caught that train too, as well as the evening service running fast from Finchley Road to Rayners Lane. There was also a single peak-hour 'fast' Chesham service between Finchley Road and Moor Park.
Yes, the all-day extensions to Aldgate commenced in the late 80's, shortly after Thameslink trains started servibg Farringdon. The Amersham and Uxbridge trains mostly went to Aldgate, whist the Watford ones outside the peaks continued to terminste at Baker Street. Through trains to Chesham were still seldom then.
You should make a video on why the train starts and slows down on the central line train sometimes. Apparently it’s because people lean on the doors while it starts.
Correct. It is due to leaning on the doors. Often unintentionally as they stumble... Then stumble the other way when the acceleration becomes deceleration again. This is why it's often a short pause in acceleration rather than a full on stopping.
Why it happens on some lines and not others is mostly down to the door mechanisms being different, so some can withstand the pushing better than others.
I did not get on the Cravens stock ( Aka A60 & A62) very often but i preferred them to travel on than the D Stock .
Oddly, there are some Met Line trains which are entirely longitudinal - it always throws me when I get on one of those trains as I generally gravitate towards the transversal seating.
Those are the S7 trains which run on District, Hammersmith & City and Circle lines; the top half of the latter shares track with the Met line between Aldgate and Baker St.
@@SportyMabambaI've caught these trains from Watford!
@@johna5635 I believe you may be mistaken about the lack of transverse seating as the S7 doesn’t go to Watford
@@SportyMabamba And yet I have categorically caught these from Watford on a few occasions. Hopefully somebody else can verify this phenomenon.
@@johna5635There is a single such train which was formed of an S7 train with an extra carriage, known as "S7+1"
Great photography as usual Jago, and interesting angled shots from unusual positions. I love "The Met" and travelled in the compartment stock many times in the late 50's, early 60's when I lived in Harrow. The change to steam at Ricky was very slick, taking a few minutes.
its similar to coaches and buses on the roads, Coaches which are built for long distance journeys ALWAYS have seats facing forward(or backward on a few cool swanky ones), but buses, which are built for shorter journeys have a mixture of sideways and forward or backward facing seats
I love the Metropolitan line! I took it to school today.
Was it difficult getting it in through the doors...? (Sorry!)
Thanks for some insight into one aspect of England’s race to the bottom.
Maybe an idea for a future video, if it hasn't been covered before: the history of *smoking* on the Underground. Unless my memory deceives me, some Tube trains had smoking carriages up to at least the 1970s. Smoking on the Underground (trains and stations) was completely banned after the Kings Cross fire of 1987, which was blamed on discarded cigarettes, but I suspect that smoking on trains was phased out before then.
Yes, there were definitely smoking carriages on the tube. In the 60s and 70s I think it was at least 2 per train, typically the second one in from each end IIRC. At the time, British Rail trains had more smoking carriages/sections than non-smoking. The pendulum gradually swung.
As I remember, they were not called smoking carriages explicitly, at least in later years. Rather, the non-smoking carriages had "No Smoking" signs and the "smoking" carriages had no signs on the matter. Historically, some trains did have "Smoking" labels on some compartments, certainly on some main line trains but I don't know if the Underground ever did.
@@dukenukem5768 Yes, good reminder. Hence the old "Nosmo King" joke. On British Rail the No Smoking carriages originally had a red triangle on the windows and later on a red circle. Some very old preserved carriages have "Smoking" etched into the glass, I think from 100+ years ago. After that it became assumed that allowing smoking was the norm unless indicated otherwise. Likewise if you went into a pub or restaurant you came out stinking of smoke which clung to your clothes for days (especially wool). Gone without regret.
I saw an A stock metropolitan train go past North Harrow 2 days ago. I wonder what it was doing
Are you sure it wasn't the Rail Adhesion unit? I saw it too but it is an old "D" stock so far as i am aware.
Always preferred the A60 stock, but was a regular traveller on the steam hauled trains. The changeover at Ricky was good to watch.
Ah, the daily grind - neither up or down, nor forwards or backwards - but forever going sideways. On an underground system built by a surface train banker & an elevated railway one!
Not sure about golf courses, but maybe a doorless dining car with toilets could be tagged onto the end of a tube train - like a brake van, but Greggs..? 🤔
Actually, as there are cabs you can't walk through at both ends, a walk-thru dining & toilet van might have to go in the middle - with a bit more selective door opening too. But, like locos of old, maybe the cabs could be separate - likewise letting passenger cars be identical...
Thanks Jago - this is such an interesting video. I've always found the Metropolitan Line the most interesting of all the Underground lines, mainly because of its history (as the oldest of the Underground lines), its stations (which are sited all the way into Buckinghamshire, like Stoke Mandeville and Verney Junction), and its trains.
It always fascinated me how, even when the Metropolitan Line included the Barking - Hammersmith section (which is now the Hammersmith and City Line), it still felt it was two different lines. The longer trains, which you'd see from Aldgate and Baker Street, never ran from Hammersmith to Barking/Whitechapel, and the shorter trains, which almost exclusively had interiors of transverse seating, never ran from Aldgate to Amersham / Chesham / Watford (although they might have run from Aldgate to Uxbridge). It may only have been on one or two occasions that I observed the longer Metropolitan Line trains at East Ham, running from Barking out to Amersham, before the creation of the Hammersmith and City Line.
It would have been something to have travelled from Barking out to Amersham/Chesham on a transverse-seated Metropolitan Line train. 🚇 ❤ 👏🏾 Thanks Jago 👍🏾
In India, Metros have longitudinal seating and Local Trains (Long distance Commuter Trains) have Transverse Seating.
While in the U.S. NY and Boston have mostly longitudinal seats as they operate more conventional metro services while most other are more commuter like and have transverse seats primarily.
Of course, that's sensible. Unfortunately, some transport administrations (like Transport 4 NSW) don't do "sensible".
The Metropolitan Line is still the busiest tube line and yes it went as far as Buckinghamshire before it ends at Amersham and the S8 Stocks have made such good improvements since it came into service in 2013.
When you look at Brunel's Great Way Round to Oxford, you can see why Watkin was eager to promote an alternative in the 1870s.
I still find it hard to believe that a city gent could board a Pullman at Verney Jc: a terminus so remote that it is not being reopened when Bletchley-Bicester is restored. Comparable runs out of London such as Victoria-Uckfield had no on-board catering at all, though you could buy picnic baskets at some LBSCR stations.
I don't think that there were many city gents getting on at Verney Junction. A few cow herders on a day out out may be.