Geoff - in 1979, myself and two friends (all aged 11) once went to Grange Hill station and spent hours looking for Grange Hill school. We ended up getting a really friendly driver to take us to the depot and he showed us around some of it before getting us put back on a train home. Epic day. We wrote to the BBC and we got autographs from Tucker, Benny and Alan.
It goes up to the platform, it only goes up those 4 steps so wheelchair users can then go along the passage where they can get another lift up to the platform. Bit misleading commentary
In Hong Kong if a bus service is only operating every 30 minutes or more (like 45, 60 or more) it's considered only a basic service, or even a candidate for cancellation if passenger figures are low enough. Coming to England and seeing buses that come up to every 2 hours on a certain route really tells me how spoiled Hong Kongers like myself are in terms of transport.
In the middle of the first covid lockdown Manchester Metrolink was reduced to a 20 minute service (we normally get 6-12 minutes depending on time of day)
It's at it's most beautiful during rainy weather when it fills up, floods, and spreads the muck and grime into an even layer on the floor and splashes up the walls.
Geoff, got lots to say about this loop. When I was a teen in the early 1970's I went to what was then Loughton College (actually in Debden) and is now called New City College. I chose to use the tube train to get me from Barkingside station around the loop to Woodford and then up to Debden and then back again in the evening. I had two very powerful reasons for going the long (aka, SLOWER) way round the loop and going to Leytonstone and then taking the Epping line was a lot quicker. First, the journey itself was charming, easy and not at all crowded. I was going against the direction of the commuters, after all, and secondly, I had girl friends who lived close to both Woodford and Loughton stations. Ah!!! the memories of ones youth. Thanks for this video.
@@everlonging3207 Yes. "Loughton College of Further Education" is what it was called and then during a period of substantial rebuilding "Epping Forrest College" and now "New City College in Epping" (or something very close to that). I did my "A" level there.
That took me back. I lived in Chigwell for eighteen years, traveling on the central line to get to work at Tower Hill. It was nice to see the old sights again. Thanks
Proper job Geoff. I really find it interesting as a Yankee all these different lines that have callbacks to the old days but yet modern equipment still runs on them!
You have those in NYC too. Quite a few subway lines in NYC started out as railroads. And there's also SIR, which is technically still a railroad, but it's operated with subway cars and a subway-style service.
2:30 Also at Grange Hill, if you exit the station, go left a bit and look through, you can see a siding. Sometimes, trains are stabled there when terminating at Grange Hill and heading to the depot.
There are actually two sidings behind Grange Hill, 70 and 71 Roads known as the "North Neck". Both are reversing sidings, trains do not stable there. Trains terminating at Hainault go through the "wash road" into the North Neck, drivers change ends and go into the depot. From Grange Hill you have to go up the "wash road", change ends, into the North Neck, change ends again and then into the depot. A few years a newly qualified driver stabled their train up the North Neck, walked all the way down to the North Cabin where the shunters told them to go back and bring it into the depot
I am a regular user of this end of the central line, getting on at Newbury Park ( fabulous bus station roof ) then travelling to Hainault down the steps ( more than 18 inches) then back up to wait for the shuttle. Never busy a great antidote to a busy working day, brilliant video thank you
There is another impressive viaduct over Debden brook, just north of Debden Tube station. Grange Hill, Chigwell and Roding Valley are not just in Essex, they are in the Essex District of Epping Forest where they join the 5 Epping line stations Buckhurst Hill, Loughton, Debden, Theydon Bois and Epping to make up the district's 8 tube stations, down from the 11 it has until 1994 (it lost Blake Hall, North Weald and Ongar on 30/9/1994). The district has just one National Rail station at Roydon. It would be interesting to see a league table of non-Greater-London districts with the most tube stations, I imagine Epping Forest would be near the top (albeit below the City of London)
Please, if you’re gonna keep with this series, make the ruislip branch and the uxbridge branch. Would make me happier to see that you’re still making these
Ruislip is on the way to Uxbridge so that could be one long item. Ruislip is an interesting station though. It looks like it once had an avoiding line, or somthing like that. Must be a story there!
... and why they never offered trains from Uxbridge / Rayners Lane to central London taking a short cut via the Central Line. The lines cross in one or two places and there is at least one place where there is already a "curve" linking them that is used for empty stock moves. That diversion would save journey times from Uxbridge into central London.
I believe Newbury Park had an identical station building to Chigwell before it was demolished to enable the widening of the Eastern Avenue, and the building of the famous bus shelter that has become such an iconic landmark.
@@DeenLight744 I am talking about before the bus shelter was built. The old station building faced Eastern Avenue, and was identical to the one found at Chigwell.
That was a trip down memory lane, I was born at Grange Hill. The line and the far end of the Hainault sidings were over our back fence. In the late fifties there was a steam crane, which 'fell' over and my dad when over to help rescue the driver. I remember when the shuttle was a very dark maroon with small windows and the motorcar had big louvered vents.
Thanks for the Grange Hill banger. Got a genuine LOL from me. I used to visit my friend who lived in Chigwell in the 80s as a young teenager. It was always a lovely start to a day of travelcard roving for under a fiver!
I was born just up the road from Grange Hill and my earliest memory was when the 1960 Stock ATO started their tests in April 1964, when we could only ride in the Standard Stock trailers and the windows of the motor cars were painted over. I also remember riding the “red train”, which I believe was the last 1935 Stock in service. The drivers of the STO trains were a miserable lot and never waved to us at they passed under the footbridge at the other end of Grange Hill tunnel, where I waited every evening to see the ‘62 Stock through train for Grange Hill at 1857… it almost always had to stop at the signal before the tunnel and the drivers always did a wave and a toot! Happy memories of much gentler times. I have a unique enamel sign from platform 1 at Hainault… “Subway to platform 2 for trains to Grange Hill, Chigwell, Roding Valley and Woodford”. 🤓😆
The old Great Eastern service lived on into BR days. After the Central Line service packed up for the night there was a service out of Liverpool Street which ran, so far as I can recall, to Epping.
Wow, that brought back memories, Geoff. I was born and brought up right next to Hainault station. Our garden backed on to the Embankment on which the station is built. Moreover, I used the loop everyday from age 11 to 18 to get to school. I remember the test trains well, and the occasional 1938 stock red train that ran in the evening and at weekends. As a kid, we used to play in the depot. Probably shouldn't admit it (I reckon the statute of limitations protects me), but we used to shunt trains back and forward on the sidings :-)
@@Lisbonized We didn't seem to need them. We certainly didn't have any. I can't answer for those who should have seen us doing it. We were only ever on the sidings by moor (i.e. where Limes Farm was built in the late 60's) At the time (late 50's early 60's) it was open fields and we rarely saw anybody. If we did, they chased us off.
@@GarethHowell it’s possible that the keys needed were left in situ. Highly possible that the shunters at least would have been asleep. 😂Depending on what sidings you were on, it may not have been indicated on the signalman’s diagram.
Superb and really enjoyable. I generally watch these videos twice over as there is so much detail and interest packed into a few minutes, that I don't absorb it all first time around. Well researched and presented, with a bit of fun thrown in for good measure. Thanks!
I liked when you were talking about 'Grange Hill' @2:27, you put the Fork with the sausage in the top right hand corner - just like in the original Grange Hill opening Titles!!! 😀🚂🚂🚂
The original automatic trains on the shuttle were four car units comprising a 1960 stock driving motor car at each end with two standard stock trailers between.
Thank you Geoff for this great Video. I really enjoy these videos about the tube, like in the oldern times of your channel. I always have a smile on my face when a new one comes out, hopefully this will continue. Also the video frequency was really high in the last weeks, which makes me happy. (pls dont overwork). Looking forward for more videos of this kind, so thank you and greetings from Berlin.
Geoff, I’m admittedly a very inept researcher, but I’m blown away by all of the detailed information in your videos. Both historical and current. What resources do you use to find all of this out?
I started working on London Underground in 1970 as an Railway Operating Apprentice (ROA) After initial training I spent some time at Woodford Signal Cabin as what was known as a Box Boy (the Signalman's dog's body) ... Many of the trains used for ATO (Automatic Train Operation) were Craven Stock motor cars with Standard stock trailer cars, Craven were also the maker's of the A 60s used on the Metropolitan line.
Back in't 70's I was at West Hatch Tech about 3/4mile down the High Road from Chigwell Station. I lived in Loughton and my primary way of getting to school should of been bus, the 254 to Buckhurst Hill Station and change onto the 235 (both London Transport) direct to school door to door, easy. But no, I would walk just under a mile to Loughton Station, change at Woodford, wait for the four coaches to snake out of the siding whilst I read (looked at the pictures in) The Sun, get off at Chigwell and walk the rest. My mate used to beat me home by some margin on his bike which he took down Luxborough Lane under that viaduct and across the fields. That's two options quicker than the train, no wonder I didn't do well at school.
1:36 "As the shuttle is every twenty minutes, if you've just missed the train you've got a bit of a wait." Me, a Northerner, with four hours between trains: *wut* Edit: Also, having checked the figures, the idea that even the last used station on the Underground could have 190,000 passengers per year, even during Covid, is astounding - the least used station on my line had just 400 passengers in 2020.
Have to agree with you there, went down to London a few months back and was amazed at how even a bad day for the Tube is far better than a good day using Northern.
7:01 "Farewell bin bag in the breeze" - except there's no breeze. Fascinating to see and learn about all these little known facts about different parts of the Underground.
Really interesting, as usual. Here's an idea for a theme - stations where you can see straight through a tunnel. Start with Grange Hill and I'll add Riddlesdown...
Living in Grange Hill this was a useful insight. One other thing, there are no car parks at the 3 stations and since moved to zone 4 and before COVID had attracted an increase in commuters,
Love the sausage, I always think of that cartoon strip intro when I drive past the station. As soon as you said Grange Hill I thought of it, it made my day to see it appear!
We are living in Gants Hill from 30 years and Now Grange Hill but some of this intresting information did not knew. Excellent video , loved it. Looking forward for future videos
I'm so glad this video was published. I needed to know about the Hainualt to Woodford branch. Two lines on the Underground, no, three, no, four, four lines, four Underground lines with branches in their route maps.
When he asks what type of stock it is on the overhead view, the cream coloured building just closer to the camera contains the training simulator. A fully fledged multi screen simulator in a cut down tube train running on Windows XP :)
ive missed many trains having lived in Hainault almost all my life. nothing worse than missing your train by seconds to then have to wait 20 mins for the next one haha
I am constantly amazed how you - young Mr. Marshall - manage to make such a potentially boring subject as underground trains "quite interesting". It must be your presentation and enthusiasm that dies it.... Nurse, nurse....
Seeing as Grange Hill is always brought up: Alan Hawkshaw, who composed the Grange Hill theme, passed away fairly recently. Here he is with the Band performing the theme live (not my footage): th-cam.com/video/rsxRGwtSn74/w-d-xo.html Alan also composed the famous Countdown Theme and Clock Music for Channel 4.
I was recently at Hainault in the early afternoon. The Woodford shuttle was shown as the second train on the platform, with the first train being shown as for West Ruislip. I became intrigued when the driver walked along the platform and got in the cab at the "wrong" end of the train. There was no announcement on the platform but I heard the driver announce on the train that the service was going to be West Ruislip via Woodford. Several people on the train, obviously wanting stations between Hainault and Wanstead got off and I took the opportunity to get on. I couldn't figure out why it went this way round as another West Ruislip train followed it into the Woodford station within a minute or two.
There's a footpath opposite Grange Hill.. Follow through and there's a footbridge halfway between Grange Hill and Chigwell... You could almost see both stations at once... Well not quite, but you can see the acceleration and deceleration for them. I grew up close by (Can't afford to live there now!) And have fond memories of standing there with my dog and waving at drivers and they'd often wave back and whistle... (Born in 80's, so remembering 92 stock whistle). I also remember listening to the whistle of the trains 'going to bed for the night' on summer evenings at Hainault.
When my Dad was a boy he lived a stone's throw from Grange Hill - he was at home when the bomb struck the station. He'd walk home from Woodford along the tracks. Apparently getting caught in the tunnel when a train passed was the worst!
Great upload, Gosh a mention of Grange Hill TV series,I remember the first series being filmed at my school Kinngsbury High school,we never saw much of the filming but one day I saw a filming lorry and actors at the school cricket nets which backed onto stag lane,I wonder if that's on one of the episodes or if it didn't get included,best wishes to everyone.
I swear to god I'm not a Londoner, or even a Briton at that. But I love watching British rail videos because it's so complex and has a rich history to them
A few interesting things you could have mentioned...... like it used to be worked by 4 car units until the mid 1980s. That a 4 car 1967 stock was outbased at Hainault to work the branch alongside the 1960 stock. That the 1960 were the experimental Central Line Standard Stock replacement stock, and only consisted of Driving Motor cars as the plan was to re-use Standard stock trailer cars. And the 1960s stock that worked the shuttles did indeed have Standard stock trailers until they fell apart in the early 1980s. Their replacements were 1938 stock trailers and only one per unit as the 4 car sets became 3 car sets..... Of course the last of these to run was in unit 3906/07 on the Eppping-Ongar branch service. And that the branch was the same as the Victoria line, and was ATO worked although 8 car 1962 stock worked to & from Hainault Depot via Woodford. Plus Hailault train crew depot had a separate ATO roster for the shuttle service.... Such a short line but a massive amount of quirky & oddball things of interest surround it! Perhaps you caould make another film about such things?..... I recall you took notice of my comments on another video and made a film of the GWR Brentford branch......
Also, I think the Hainault loop was also going to be part of the planned Chelsea-Hackney line, which would have taken the southern part of the loop, and the Wimbledon branch of the district and built another tube line crossing London. That plan was delayed and delayed, until they finally built crossrail instead.
I’m looking at a tube map that shows the proposed Chelsea-Hackney line. On this map the Central line would retain the entirety of the Hainault Loop to Woodford, while Leytonstone to Epping would become part of the Chelsea-Hackney line.
I visited Ruislip Gardens for the first time this year, as a place out to the west of London where I could leave my car during the day, before heading out into England in the evening after a trip into central London to run a few errands. Yep - a very calm and quiet neighbourhood and station. I'd consider living out there, tbh.
"as a shuttle is every 20 mins, if you missed a train you've got a bit of a wait" Say's everything about the transport system in London and outside, we'd love just a 20minute wait between services!
Epping to Ongar is my favourite story on the London Underground. Didn't survive like this one but is a Heritage railway now. My Uncle is a Diesel driver operating out of North Weald.
Roding Valley is also one of very few tube stations not to have ticket barriers along with Mill Hill East, South Kenton and a few other 1/2 gated stations.
The first Ongar train of the afternoon left Grange Hill as a 4-car 59/62 stock, straight out of the depot and into service at Grange Hill. At Woodford, it arrived from the north into platform 2, then departed back to the north so it could carry on through Buckhurst Hill to Ongar.
Back in the late 60s there was a small coal merchants office next to Grange Hill Stn. I found that the station had coal sidings dating from its former Great Eastern etc use. I think B.R. freight still used the line as well up to the early 60s?
I lived near Hainault station all my youth and never went around the loop up past Grange Hill station. I lived equidistant from them and could walk to either station via Manford Way. My childhood school was Grange Hill School, prefabricated infants and newer secondary. They pulled it all down for real estate. 1960's - 70's
I remember travelling on the 1967ts trains on this branch. I was a schoolboy at the time and was more interested in the old trains, by which I mean the Standard stock trailers used as part of the 1960ts fleet. I think the long bench seats at Chigwell are a distinctive Great Eastern Railway (GER) feature. Similar seats (in two different lengths) are also to be found at Newbury Park - the station with the iconic but very draughty bus shelter (spoken as someone who has had to wait for buses there, on cold windy winter days). South of Newbury Park the railway formed a triangle with links to both Ilford and Seven Kings. Woodford is an Eastern Counties Railway station (ECR) and whilst it does not have GER lettering in the canopy brackets it has some seats with GER lettering in the support ironwork. Other stations built by the ECR with decorative canopy bracket ironwork include Leyton, South Woodford and Snaresbrook, with the design at the latter being delightfully ostentatious!
Geoff - in 1979, myself and two friends (all aged 11) once went to Grange Hill station and spent hours looking for Grange Hill school. We ended up getting a really friendly driver to take us to the depot and he showed us around some of it before getting us put back on a train home. Epic day. We wrote to the BBC and we got autographs from Tucker, Benny and Alan.
Flippin' 'eck!
That's jolly nice of all of them.
The three iconic characters of the early series
Dare I say it nowadays - did Jimmy fix it for them ?
bro how u guys bout to act like u over 50 when ur probably 12-14
I assume those 4 steps are still the equivalent of 15 floors though?
I guess
I was going to say that!
It goes up to the platform, it only goes up those 4 steps so wheelchair users can then go along the passage where they can get another lift up to the platform. Bit misleading commentary
TfL should put that sign up as a joke!
😅👍
Love how you consider 20 minutes a bit of a wait. I'd love to live somewhere where that's a long time.
Come to the Northern Line. Trains come every 1-4mins and I once considered 6 mins a long time
In Hong Kong if a bus service is only operating every 30 minutes or more (like 45, 60 or more) it's considered only a basic service, or even a candidate for cancellation if passenger figures are low enough. Coming to England and seeing buses that come up to every 2 hours on a certain route really tells me how spoiled Hong Kongers like myself are in terms of transport.
In San Francisco that felt like the usual wait time for anything if you were lucky!
In the middle of the first covid lockdown Manchester Metrolink was reduced to a 20 minute service (we normally get 6-12 minutes depending on time of day)
Victoria line in the Peak has a train every 90 seconds 🤯
Walked through that underpass hundreds of times… never once thought it was lovely 😂
It's at it's most beautiful during rainy weather when it fills up, floods, and spreads the muck and grime into an even layer on the floor and splashes up the walls.
@@TheoHiggins I prefer snow! Then you get this delightfully brown coloured sludge sticking to every surface.
Geoff, got lots to say about this loop. When I was a teen in the early 1970's I went to what was then Loughton College (actually in Debden) and is now called New City College. I chose to use the tube train to get me from Barkingside station around the loop to Woodford and then up to Debden and then back again in the evening.
I had two very powerful reasons for going the long (aka, SLOWER) way round the loop and going to Leytonstone and then taking the Epping line was a lot quicker. First, the journey itself was charming, easy and not at all crowded. I was going against the direction of the commuters, after all, and secondly, I had girl friends who lived close to both Woodford and Loughton stations. Ah!!! the memories of ones youth.
Thanks for this video.
Great story Brian, thank you! made me smile ;-) The memories of youth indeed ......
It was Epping College before the new name. Was it called Loughton College in the past?
@@everlonging3207 Yes. "Loughton College of Further Education" is what it was called and then during a period of substantial rebuilding "Epping Forrest College" and now "New City College in Epping" (or something very close to that). I did my "A" level there.
@@everlonging3207 I thought it was Redbridge College
@@geofftech2 ap
Loved the Grange Hill sausage on a fork flying into shot just like the original series, nice touch that Geoff.
That took me back. I lived in Chigwell for eighteen years, traveling on the central line to get to work at Tower Hill. It was nice to see the old sights again. Thanks
Proper job Geoff. I really find it interesting as a Yankee all these different lines that have callbacks to the old days but yet modern equipment still runs on them!
You have those in NYC too. Quite a few subway lines in NYC started out as railroads. And there's also SIR, which is technically still a railroad, but it's operated with subway cars and a subway-style service.
2:30 Also at Grange Hill, if you exit the station, go left a bit and look through, you can see a siding. Sometimes, trains are stabled there when terminating at Grange Hill and heading to the depot.
You don't park a train, you 'stable' it. Regards, Mr Pedantic.
There are actually two sidings behind Grange Hill, 70 and 71 Roads known as the "North Neck".
Both are reversing sidings, trains do not stable there. Trains terminating at Hainault go through the "wash road" into the North Neck, drivers change ends and go into the depot. From Grange Hill you have to go up the "wash road", change ends, into the North Neck, change ends again and then into the depot.
A few years a newly qualified driver stabled their train up the North Neck, walked all the way down to the North Cabin where the shunters told them to go back and bring it into the depot
@@ASLEFshrugged Where is No 1 road?
@@rayfisher3921 White City sidings
@@ASLEFshrugged Thanks
I am a regular user of this end of the central line, getting on at Newbury Park ( fabulous bus station roof ) then travelling to Hainault down the steps ( more than 18 inches) then back up to wait for the shuttle. Never busy a great antidote to a busy working day, brilliant video thank you
There is another impressive viaduct over Debden brook, just north of Debden Tube station.
Grange Hill, Chigwell and Roding Valley are not just in Essex, they are in the Essex District of Epping Forest where they join the 5 Epping line stations Buckhurst Hill, Loughton, Debden, Theydon Bois and Epping to make up the district's 8 tube stations, down from the 11 it has until 1994 (it lost Blake Hall, North Weald and Ongar on 30/9/1994). The district has just one National Rail station at Roydon. It would be interesting to see a league table of non-Greater-London districts with the most tube stations, I imagine Epping Forest would be near the top (albeit below the City of London)
Please, if you’re gonna keep with this series, make the ruislip branch and the uxbridge branch. Would make me happier to see that you’re still making these
Ruislip is on the way to Uxbridge so that could be one long item.
Ruislip is an interesting station though. It looks like it once had an avoiding line, or somthing like that. Must be a story there!
@@michaelorton6947 i meant the west ruislip brancj
... and why they never offered trains from Uxbridge / Rayners Lane to central London taking a short cut via the Central Line. The lines cross in one or two places and there is at least one place where there is already a "curve" linking them that is used for empty stock moves.
That diversion would save journey times from Uxbridge into central London.
Excellent use of the Grange Hill sausage and fork....
Watching this brought smiles! Went through Woodford station many times.
Every time I think of Grange Hill, The station actually appears in my head along with the 1978 BBC TV series
Hainault... a great inspiration to Crowded House - "Hainault, Hainault, don't dream it's over..." :-)
With the Belgian pronounciation?
Loved the sausage nod to Grange Hill. I was even expecting the intro theme when the train doors opened 😆.
Geoff Marshall - The only person who could describe an underpass as "lovely".
Fun Fact: The original theme for Grange Hill is called Chicken Man, and was also used for the first series of Give Us A Clue on ITV.
I’m very happy to see this series again!
Secrets of London Underground is my fav.
I love watching these videos. I can see why most of these places are least used or haven’t been seen too much by other folks passing through.
The Hainault Shuttle sounds like a dance craze from the very late 1970s which lasted only six months
Hainault Shuffle performed by Epic Forest.
@@stephensaines7100 Featuring Theydon Bois on guitar
Theydon Bois, Theydon Bois,
Laced up boots and corduroys...
(Sham 69, of course)
It’s like I’m watching Londonist again
I believe Newbury Park had an identical station building to Chigwell before it was demolished to enable the widening of the Eastern Avenue, and the building of the famous bus shelter that has become such an iconic landmark.
Indeed so, and other more recent changes have seen Newbury Park become fully accessible between the street & platform, with one lift to each platform.
instead that Newbury Park has a bus shelter and Chigwell doesn't
@@DeenLight744 I am talking about before the bus shelter was built. The old station building faced Eastern Avenue, and was identical to the one found at Chigwell.
@@sgthree o
Grange Hill was identical too, until it got blown up in the War.
That was a trip down memory lane, I was born at Grange Hill. The line and the far end of the Hainault sidings were over our back fence. In the late fifties there was a steam crane, which 'fell' over and my dad when over to help rescue the driver. I remember when the shuttle was a very dark maroon with small windows and the motorcar had big louvered vents.
Excellent video. Good to see you wearing a red shirt to match the line's colour.
Geoff! I am gutted tohave missed you, I live very close to the station and am there most days!
Thanks for the Grange Hill banger. Got a genuine LOL from me. I used to visit my friend who lived in Chigwell in the 80s as a young teenager. It was always a lovely start to a day of travelcard roving for under a fiver!
I was born just up the road from Grange Hill and my earliest memory was when the 1960 Stock ATO started their tests in April 1964, when we could only ride in the Standard Stock trailers and the windows of the motor cars were painted over. I also remember riding the “red train”, which I believe was the last 1935 Stock in service. The drivers of the STO trains were a miserable lot and never waved to us at they passed under the footbridge at the other end of Grange Hill tunnel, where I waited every evening to see the ‘62 Stock through train for Grange Hill at 1857… it almost always had to stop at the signal before the tunnel and the drivers always did a wave and a toot! Happy memories of much gentler times. I have a unique enamel sign from platform 1 at Hainault… “Subway to platform 2 for trains to Grange Hill, Chigwell, Roding Valley and Woodford”. 🤓😆
My Dad used to take me to the footbridge. Sometimes the drivers tooted us when we waved.
Can't be Grange Hill without a flying sausage
I don't get it
This is documentary standard, excellent, making such interest from that short piece of tube line most Londoners know nothing about!
The old Great Eastern service lived on into BR days. After the Central Line service packed up for the night there was a service out of Liverpool Street which ran, so far as I can recall, to Epping.
Wow, that brought back memories, Geoff. I was born and brought up right next to Hainault station. Our garden backed on to the Embankment on which the station is built. Moreover, I used the loop everyday from age 11 to 18 to get to school. I remember the test trains well, and the occasional 1938 stock red train that ran in the evening and at weekends.
As a kid, we used to play in the depot. Probably shouldn't admit it (I reckon the statute of limitations protects me), but we used to shunt trains back and forward on the sidings :-)
That's a pretty adventurous childhood!
Where did you get the 2 train keys needed to do this? Why didn’t the shunters or signalman not notice what you did? 🤔
@@Lisbonized We didn't seem to need them. We certainly didn't have any.
I can't answer for those who should have seen us doing it. We were only ever on the sidings by moor (i.e. where Limes Farm was built in the late 60's) At the time (late 50's early 60's) it was open fields and we rarely saw anybody. If we did, they chased us off.
Thnking more about it. Maybe the older boys had some (I was 7-8)
@@GarethHowell it’s possible that the keys needed were left in situ. Highly possible that the shunters at least would have been asleep. 😂Depending on what sidings you were on, it may not have been indicated on the signalman’s diagram.
Superb and really enjoyable. I generally watch these videos twice over as there is so much detail and interest packed into a few minutes, that I don't absorb it all first time around. Well researched and presented, with a bit of fun thrown in for good measure. Thanks!
Can't wait. Love his videos. Keep up the good work.
I liked when you were talking about 'Grange Hill' @2:27, you put the Fork with the sausage in the top right hand corner - just like in the original Grange Hill opening Titles!!! 😀🚂🚂🚂
Thanks for giving the info of where the series was filmed, I guessed it would not have been in the real Grange Hill district on the Central Line
I'm a subway train driver from Brazil and I just found out about your channel! Great videos! Greetings!
There is no way that this short lift in Hainault was the best option. Would a simple ramp not have counted as "fully accessible"?
It would need a ramp about 15 feet long. We need to mount an expedition to see if there is room!
@@clangerbasher There is a similar lift at Victoria - main line - on the Elizabeth Bridge entrance near Sainsburys
Four steps. Isn't that equivalent to a 15 storey building?
It would have, but the incline cannot be too steep, so it would take up much more space. I guess that’s why they opted for a lift.
1 in 12 slope is the regulation limit; 4 steps in tight space probably busts that.
All this on my doorstep. Almost take it for granted.
The original automatic trains on the shuttle were four car units comprising a 1960 stock driving motor car at each end with two standard stock trailers between.
So enjoyable, informative, and the camera shots were a good substitute for my being there. Aarre Peltomaa of Mississauga, Ontario
Thank you Geoff for this great Video. I really enjoy these videos about the tube, like in the oldern times of your channel. I always have a smile on my face when a new one comes out, hopefully this will continue. Also the video frequency was really high in the last weeks, which makes me happy. (pls dont overwork). Looking forward for more videos of this kind, so thank you and greetings from Berlin.
This is a very good and a very enthusiastic video. Thanks to this I can learn more about the shuttle in Hainault.
Geoff, I’m admittedly a very inept researcher, but I’m blown away by all of the detailed information in your videos. Both historical and current. What resources do you use to find all of this out?
i guess him's a train writer. no resources @ all.
I started working on London Underground in 1970 as an Railway Operating Apprentice (ROA) After initial training I spent some time at Woodford Signal Cabin as what was known as a Box Boy (the Signalman's dog's body) ... Many of the trains used for ATO (Automatic Train Operation) were Craven Stock motor cars with Standard stock trailer cars, Craven were also the maker's of the A 60s used on the Metropolitan line.
Cheers, Geoff - from a vintage Grange Hill fan👌
Back in't 70's I was at West Hatch Tech about 3/4mile down the High Road from Chigwell Station. I lived in Loughton and my primary way of getting to school should of been bus, the 254 to Buckhurst Hill Station and change onto the 235 (both London Transport) direct to school door to door, easy. But no, I would walk just under a mile to Loughton Station, change at Woodford, wait for the four coaches to snake out of the siding whilst I read (looked at the pictures in) The Sun, get off at Chigwell and walk the rest. My mate used to beat me home by some margin on his bike which he took down Luxborough Lane under that viaduct and across the fields. That's two options quicker than the train, no wonder I didn't do well at school.
1:36 "As the shuttle is every twenty minutes, if you've just missed the train you've got a bit of a wait."
Me, a Northerner, with four hours between trains: *wut*
Edit: Also, having checked the figures, the idea that even the last used station on the Underground could have 190,000 passengers per year, even during Covid, is astounding - the least used station on my line had just 400 passengers in 2020.
Have to agree with you there, went down to London a few months back and was amazed at how even a bad day for the Tube is far better than a good day using Northern.
@@PCDelorian UP to London; in railway parlance, London is always 'up' whatever direction you're coming from.
7:01 "Farewell bin bag in the breeze" - except there's no breeze. Fascinating to see and learn about all these little known facts about different parts of the Underground.
Really interesting, as usual. Here's an idea for a theme - stations where you can see straight through a tunnel. Start with Grange Hill and I'll add Riddlesdown...
Hadley Wood?
I think it is possible to see all the way through Hampstead Heath tunnel from Finchley Road & Frognal station
From Canada Water (SB) you can see the platform at Rotherhithe through the tunnel - does that count ?
Thank you Geoff for all your lovely work for us tube lovers! Chris in Sweden!
Very interesting to see you visit chigwell station. One I use every day!
Living in Grange Hill this was a useful insight. One other thing, there are no car parks at the 3 stations and since moved to zone 4 and before COVID had attracted an increase in commuters,
Love the sausage, I always think of that cartoon strip intro when I drive past the station. As soon as you said Grange Hill I thought of it, it made my day to see it appear!
Nice countryside near there. The London LOOP walk passes near Chigwell station, which is the only reason I've ever needed to use the Hainault Loop!
Loved that Geoff... Thanks for the subtle Grange Hill title sequence reference 😁
As much as I enjoyed this, this vlog felt like a Londonist one, still loved it
He's even wearing a red shirt. Brilliant.
🎶 Hainault, Hainault, don't dream it's over🎵
I never use the Hainault loop, and the Central Line just takes me to work. Still absolutely fascinating. Thanks.
We are living in Gants Hill from 30 years and Now Grange Hill but some of this intresting information did not knew. Excellent video , loved it. Looking forward for future videos
I'm so glad this video was published. I needed to know about the Hainualt to Woodford branch. Two lines on the Underground, no, three, no, four, four lines, four Underground lines with branches in their route maps.
When he asks what type of stock it is on the overhead view, the cream coloured building just closer to the camera contains the training simulator. A fully fledged multi screen simulator in a cut down tube train running on Windows XP :)
ive missed many trains having lived in Hainault almost all my life. nothing worse than missing your train by seconds to then have to wait 20 mins for the next one haha
Always a joy when one of these videos pops up!
I am constantly amazed how you - young Mr. Marshall - manage to make such a potentially boring subject as underground trains "quite interesting". It must be your presentation and enthusiasm that dies it....
Nurse,
nurse....
The flying banger was a nice touch, I started humming the theme as so as the doors opened. 😆
finally! someone spotted it!! thank you ... hee he hee
@@geofftech2 The pause before the banger appeared was timed perfectly - I cheered! Well done!
Seeing as Grange Hill is always brought up:
Alan Hawkshaw, who composed the Grange Hill theme, passed away fairly recently. Here he is with the Band performing the theme live (not my footage): th-cam.com/video/rsxRGwtSn74/w-d-xo.html
Alan also composed the famous Countdown Theme and Clock Music for Channel 4.
I was recently at Hainault in the early afternoon. The Woodford shuttle was shown as the second train on the platform, with the first train being shown as for West Ruislip. I became intrigued when the driver walked along the platform and got in the cab at the "wrong" end of the train. There was no announcement on the platform but I heard the driver announce on the train that the service was going to be West Ruislip via Woodford. Several people on the train, obviously wanting stations between Hainault and Wanstead got off and I took the opportunity to get on. I couldn't figure out why it went this way round as another West Ruislip train followed it into the Woodford station within a minute or two.
Inspiring! I might follow in your footsteps one day.
There's a footpath opposite Grange Hill.. Follow through and there's a footbridge halfway between Grange Hill and Chigwell... You could almost see both stations at once... Well not quite, but you can see the acceleration and deceleration for them. I grew up close by (Can't afford to live there now!) And have fond memories of standing there with my dog and waving at drivers and they'd often wave back and whistle... (Born in 80's, so remembering 92 stock whistle). I also remember listening to the whistle of the trains 'going to bed for the night' on summer evenings at Hainault.
When my Dad was a boy he lived a stone's throw from Grange Hill - he was at home when the bomb struck the station. He'd walk home from Woodford along the tracks. Apparently getting caught in the tunnel when a train passed was the worst!
“I only want to help you, Roland” Great video - all the way from New North Road to Snakes Lane!
Gutted the first second of the Grange Hill theme tune didn't play when the tube train doors opened to reveal Grange Hill station...
We did get the sausage though!
Great upload, Gosh a mention of Grange Hill TV series,I remember the first series being filmed at my school Kinngsbury High school,we never saw much of the filming but one day I saw a filming lorry and actors at the school cricket nets which backed onto stag lane,I wonder if that's on one of the episodes or if it didn't get included,best wishes to everyone.
Loved the sausage at Grange Hill Station, took me back instantly
I swear to god I'm not a Londoner, or even a Briton at that. But I love watching British rail videos because it's so complex and has a rich history to them
A few interesting things you could have mentioned...... like it used to be worked by 4 car units until the mid 1980s. That a 4 car 1967 stock was outbased at Hainault to work the branch alongside the 1960 stock. That the 1960 were the experimental Central Line Standard Stock replacement stock, and only consisted of Driving Motor cars as the plan was to re-use Standard stock trailer cars. And the 1960s stock that worked the shuttles did indeed have Standard stock trailers until they fell apart in the early 1980s. Their replacements were 1938 stock trailers and only one per unit as the 4 car sets became 3 car sets..... Of course the last of these to run was in unit 3906/07 on the Eppping-Ongar branch service. And that the branch was the same as the Victoria line, and was ATO worked although 8 car 1962 stock worked to & from Hainault Depot via Woodford. Plus Hailault train crew depot had a separate ATO roster for the shuttle service.... Such a short line but a massive amount of quirky & oddball things of interest surround it! Perhaps you caould make another film about such things?..... I recall you took notice of my comments on another video and made a film of the GWR Brentford branch......
Also, I think the Hainault loop was also going to be part of the planned Chelsea-Hackney line, which would have taken the southern part of the loop, and the Wimbledon branch of the district and built another tube line crossing London. That plan was delayed and delayed, until they finally built crossrail instead.
I’m looking at a tube map that shows the proposed Chelsea-Hackney line. On this map the Central line would retain the entirety of the Hainault Loop to Woodford, while Leytonstone to Epping would become part of the Chelsea-Hackney line.
finaly! an update virsion to the secrets of the central line (but only the hainault suttle)
YES!! THE SECRET SERIES IS BACK!!
Shhh! It's a secret...
I visited Ruislip Gardens for the first time this year, as a place out to the west of London where I could leave my car during the day, before heading out into England in the evening after a trip into central London to run a few errands.
Yep - a very calm and quiet neighbourhood and station. I'd consider living out there, tbh.
"as a shuttle is every 20 mins, if you missed a train you've got a bit of a wait"
Say's everything about the transport system in London and outside, we'd love just a 20minute wait between services!
Yes, 2 hours here
Epping to Ongar is my favourite story on the London Underground. Didn't survive like this one but is a Heritage railway now. My Uncle is a Diesel driver operating out of North Weald.
Roding Valley is also one of very few tube stations not to have ticket barriers along with Mill Hill East, South Kenton and a few other 1/2 gated stations.
The first Ongar train of the afternoon left Grange Hill as a 4-car 59/62 stock, straight out of the depot and into service at Grange Hill. At Woodford, it arrived from the north into platform 2, then departed back to the north so it could carry on through Buckhurst Hill to Ongar.
I remember this from being a signalman at both Epping and Hainault. It used to stable in Loughton between peaks too.
Back in the late 60s there was a small coal merchants office next to Grange Hill Stn. I found that the station had coal sidings dating from its former Great Eastern etc use. I think B.R. freight still used the line as well up to the early 60s?
Love the nod to the original Grange Hill series at 2:27 👍
Flippin eck Geoff, loved the sausage on a fork at Grange Hill. You were lucky you were not caught by Mr Baxter.
Great to see Geoff finally made a new secrets of video!
Great memories.
Thanks Geoff 👍
I lived near Hainault station all my youth and never went around the loop up past Grange Hill station. I lived equidistant from them and could walk to either station via Manford Way. My childhood school was Grange Hill School, prefabricated infants and newer secondary. They pulled it all down for real estate. 1960's - 70's
I remember travelling on the 1967ts trains on this branch. I was a schoolboy at the time and was more interested in the old trains, by which I mean the Standard stock trailers used as part of the 1960ts fleet.
I think the long bench seats at Chigwell are a distinctive Great Eastern Railway (GER) feature. Similar seats (in two different lengths) are also to be found at Newbury Park - the station with the iconic but very draughty bus shelter (spoken as someone who has had to wait for buses there, on cold windy winter days). South of Newbury Park the railway formed a triangle with links to both Ilford and Seven Kings.
Woodford is an Eastern Counties Railway station (ECR) and whilst it does not have GER lettering in the canopy brackets it has some seats with GER lettering in the support ironwork.
Other stations built by the ECR with decorative canopy bracket ironwork include Leyton, South Woodford and Snaresbrook, with the design at the latter being delightfully ostentatious!
As soon as you said Grange Hill I was expecting a sausage, was not disappointed!
Really interesting. I didn't know that the shuttle existed. What did strike me though was the dilapidated state of the stations and their surrounds.
Thank you for the video. I was at South Woodford when I was at Queen Mary, University of London.
I see my mate George Lane still has his name on some of the signs at South Woodford.😅😊😂
Always enjoyable, and with such great quality content
Very enjoyable - remarkably quiet - I can see why they only need a shuttle, especially at the moment!
Just became very excited about the tiny lift and I realized how much of a hopeless nerd I really am.
Same
When you see it everyday you become blasé.