As a maker who specializes in chef / kitchen cutlery, I can attest to the differences in grinding difficulties. Every time I randomly make an EDC or Hunter I'm amazed at how fast it goes. I love the challenge of a good compound ground chef. And it's great knowing that what you make is going to get used every day. Great info for sure. I def see loads of guys making hatchet geometry chefs when starting out. Like you said, testing is key.
Great video, very informative for the new guy. I'm a small knife maker from Norcal and been following you for some time now your an asset to the community. Cheers
I think I remember @OUTDOORS55 mentioning something about this not too long ago. IIRC the edge will still slice through the softest of foodstuffs, even if it's as blunt as buggery, as long as the grind is right.
thats correct. I've got kitchen knives that are so thin BTE than I can literally dull the edge on a sheet of glass until there literally is no edge, it won't break skin, and it still cuts better than 99% of knives out there, and yes it will cleanly slice a sheet of copy paper, better than most of these edc bros showing off how sharp they got their knife... by slicing paper, which to be clear is idiotic. if your knife can't even cut paper then you have an issue. The key is you want steel that has good toughness at high hardness. 52100, AEBL are two of the best choices for low alloy and stainless steels that are easy to work with. The newest steel I've tried is CPM-D2, which is night and day a different steel from ingot D2, and I like a lot.
Great video and great subject man. Took me a solid two years to realize that not just my kitchen knives could be thinner for performance, but edc/hunting knives too. Geometry cuts.
using dial calipers to check the thickness behind the edge has really helped me dial in edge geometry and stay consistent on all kinds of knives. i just choose a desired edge thickness for a certain steel for a certain blade type. 1095 chefs' knives i do 5-10 thousandths, for example. Would recommend watching all the Outdoors55 content. his testing process for blade performance is very very good.
Bought some starter tools today, and this video is perfectly timed for me to find. Now my starting point is going to be to break out the new calipers, measure up my really nice gyuto, and try to file down a 10 dollar beater I got, before even starting on making blanks from bar stock. Gotta know what I want to make before I start making it.
That knife is friggin' beautiful to look at. It looks like it's Japanese inspired, but it has a very unique, Italian race car vibe too. Fantastic work.
I'm not grinding my own blades yet but have gotten into making kitchen knives lately using pre-made blades. This definitely gives me something to think about when selecting blade blanks and how i approach sharpening.
Using the knives you make is absolutely key to understanding their performance, slicing ability, edge retention, resharpening etc. thank you for the video...
I've made kitchen knives for about 8, nearly 9 years now and recently made 4 bushcraft knives as requested, they really are laughably easy to make to the extent it was genuinely fun. Even with a convex grind, even the pain in the arse CPM3V and fitting up some dovetailed bolsters- miles easier than the kitchen knives I make every day in, day out. This may be a somewhat unpopular opinion, but hollow grinds are complete trash for large kitchen knives as they wedge in hard veg material and its really a very weak structure that can be extremely problematic a few years down the track when after enough sharpening it turns into a bit of an axe geometry. Just go very high, very flat and if you must you can throw in an S-grind or the like for food release. But that's not necessary because the bottom centimeter or half inch- you want that at a very subtle convex and it'll shed wet food easily enough. Weight is subjective But they are working knives, EDC stuff is mostly for people who don't want to be the desperately uncool situation of opening boxes with a set of car keys Kitchen knife, every day at least once, most often twice a day and it'll take a beating so make sure the handle is solid and comfortable to use in a variety of ways, same with a Petty- they generally get used more by chefs than even their primary kitchen knife for the final trim and dressing so they are a hugely important knife in food prep. Lot of different types- French, German, Chinese and the whole Japanese cutlery is its own madness- however most chefs typically get trained on French or German in western countries and that's what they stick to. I will talk about steel because its very important as much as the geometry and what you're generally looking for is that terminal sharpness, how sharp can you get a piece of steel? Because that really does have a major bearing on the types of steel you should use and why very simple carbon, mid-carbon high alloy and stainless like AEBL get used and its because of that ultra fine, felt like grain structure with small carbides. Like if you wanted and I know people who tried to use something like REX121 for a kitchen knife and its truly terrible because its just a big lump of carbides that tear out and leave the super thin edge looking like it got gnawed on, its fine to have a lot of carbides but you need to make sure they're small.
I held off on the kitchen knife for a long time. Finally made a prototype which I struggled with. The grinding was painful to say the least as I do hunting knives and edc's mostly. Gave it to a friend for evaluation and now it's her absolute favorite. Now everyone wants one. Great topic Jeremy, thanks.
I like your little knife you made, I am building one something like your knife. Your right about the blade being thin to cut like you want it too unless you are using a chopper.
Not a knifemaker, but professionnal chef here. I own two S-ground knives from James Oatley in australia, before those i used a Shun Kiritsuke knife (still do to this day depending on what i do). They have replaced my whustoffs chef knives, i never touch them anymore. The difference in cutting edge is incredible.
I also make kitchen and edc knives, and the first thing I discovered when getting started was exactly this. The thickness behind the edge is massively important. The thickness about an inch from the edge is also important when cutting thicker things like potatoes and especially carrots. Carrots will split even if you have .005" B.E.T, but have it too thick an inch up. For culinary knives I never use material more than .125" thick. After that I'd say the distal-taper and ergonomics are most important. I haven't dived into S-grinds yet but will one I invest in some jigs and wheels.
Thank for this vid mate. I’m about to start down the culinary knife rabbit hole and this has made me rethink a few things. Love the channel, love your content, keep up the great vids. 🤘🏻
Good Video. I make mostly custom hunters and have been doing more kitchen/prep knives. I use mostly nitro V for the blades have found out about the wobble in the blade you mention. Needless to say it was an expensive lesson. Wish I had seen your video before I started. Thanks. NB
An idea for a kitchen knife. Are you familiar with the Kershaw composite blade? What if you did this with a blue steel SUS410 and titanium as your spine? I am not sure this is possible but if you could your leading/cutting edge would be more dense and heavier. I think this would give the user a sense of pull as the knife processed food. And the cutting edge of SUS410 can be very fine.
kitchen knife you have to grind to cut in my exuberance i struggled with fallowing a set slandered geometry witch relies on edge sharpness for cutting performance for years but that's a mistake i could have had way more customers erlyer if i had a fallowed the idea of grinding to cut and a ex-stream focus on constancy of heat treating to support it . keep plugging a way at it
What kind of finish do you use for kitchen knives.. I've been using a conditioning belt but after a few uses the drain pattern is scratched. I'm a chef making knife's as a hobby and pick up what you are putting down on thin and geometry just the finish looks good for like two days then nada
@@Simplelittlelife The masakage yuki was also one of the first Japanese knives I purchased. I have since regrinded the hollow bevels into more serviceable and better performing flat ones with a tiny bit of convexity behind the edge aiding in food release and also replaced those very light but terrible handles. Regardless of that they are still limited by the basic carbon steel they're made from. I do not believe that steel is very important at all in a kitchen knife but basic carbon steel makes zero sense next to even low alloy steels like say 52100 which is vastly superior to any of the traditional Japanese steel. As I continued to learn I consulted the Hitachi data sheets and learned that this "white steel" was never actually designed nor intended to be used in kitchen knives. That's what the blue steel is for. Blue steel is a low alloy steel rather than carbon steel. The smiths love white steel because it's very easy to forge and grind saving time and money and consumers don't know any better. Also learned that "super blue" is not the best of the blue steels, and was only called "super" in order to market it to towards Western audiences, while saving the actual top shelf stuff which is the Blue #1 for the best knives. Blue extra is more accurate translation than "blue super" which is a marketing term. The issue with the "super blue" is that it's as brittle as any steel could get. This all starts to make sense when you realize that "super blue" is much more commonly available than Blue #1 and is available on much cheaper knives. You can find it on knives that sell for $100 in North America whereas Blue #1 is much rarer and more exclusive, generally only used on more expensive knives. But like I said, 52100 is objectively better than any of these steels. Still, I'd take something like AEBL over all of the above though the aesthetics of a non stainless steel in a san mai format are certainly compelling.
I thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with me. I’ve screened shot your comment so I can go back and study all of this information. Very fascinating and I want to get a good grasp on the Japanese paper steels. Thank you so much!🙏👍
![ออกพรรษาน้ำตาหล่น - แอน อรดี [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PFZtOcY9ONA/mqdefault.jpg)
After years of simple kitchen knives i bought a very good japanese chef knife. Holy shit, what a difference!
These are your first steps 🙂
As a maker who specializes in chef / kitchen cutlery, I can attest to the differences in grinding difficulties. Every time I randomly make an EDC or Hunter I'm amazed at how fast it goes. I love the challenge of a good compound ground chef. And it's great knowing that what you make is going to get used every day. Great info for sure. I def see loads of guys making hatchet geometry chefs when starting out. Like you said, testing is key.
Great video, very informative for the new guy. I'm a small knife maker from Norcal and been following you for some time now your an asset to the community. Cheers
Right on! Thank you so much for the wonderful words, I really appreciate that. Welcome to the community of knifemakers! Cheers 👍
I think I remember @OUTDOORS55 mentioning something about this not too long ago. IIRC the edge will still slice through the softest of foodstuffs, even if it's as blunt as buggery, as long as the grind is right.
thats correct. I've got kitchen knives that are so thin BTE than I can literally dull the edge on a sheet of glass until there literally is no edge, it won't break skin, and it still cuts better than 99% of knives out there, and yes it will cleanly slice a sheet of copy paper, better than most of these edc bros showing off how sharp they got their knife... by slicing paper, which to be clear is idiotic. if your knife can't even cut paper then you have an issue.
The key is you want steel that has good toughness at high hardness. 52100, AEBL are two of the best choices for low alloy and stainless steels that are easy to work with. The newest steel I've tried is CPM-D2, which is night and day a different steel from ingot D2, and I like a lot.
Great video and great subject man. Took me a solid two years to realize that not just my kitchen knives could be thinner for performance, but edc/hunting knives too. Geometry cuts.
using dial calipers to check the thickness behind the edge has really helped me dial in edge geometry and stay consistent on all kinds of knives. i just choose a desired edge thickness for a certain steel for a certain blade type. 1095 chefs' knives i do 5-10 thousandths, for example.
Would recommend watching all the Outdoors55 content. his testing process for blade performance is very very good.
That thick knife would find an owner in a fisherman. Breaking down crab is no easy task.
For those reasons, I have been using either filet knives, or boning knives for everything in the kitchen.
Funny, I found out the hard way every thing you just posted about a year ago. Going from fixed blades to kitchen knives, what a learning curve!
Bought some starter tools today, and this video is perfectly timed for me to find. Now my starting point is going to be to break out the new calipers, measure up my really nice gyuto, and try to file down a 10 dollar beater I got, before even starting on making blanks from bar stock. Gotta know what I want to make before I start making it.
That knife is friggin' beautiful to look at. It looks like it's Japanese inspired, but it has a very unique, Italian race car vibe too. Fantastic work.
i was taught over 30 years ago to forge thick and grind thin
The japanese knife makers mantra for the last 200 years has been "forge thinner".
Another very informative video my friend and thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love princess auto !!!
I'm not grinding my own blades yet but have gotten into making kitchen knives lately using pre-made blades. This definitely gives me something to think about when selecting blade blanks and how i approach sharpening.
Using the knives you make is absolutely key to understanding their performance, slicing ability, edge retention, resharpening etc. thank you for the video...
Stiction… Kudos to Mareko. 👍🏻
Ouah ! This video is just ON POINT ! Very interesting for me to understand why my knife cuts paper but slices badly..
I've made kitchen knives for about 8, nearly 9 years now and recently made 4 bushcraft knives as requested, they really are laughably easy to make to the extent it was genuinely fun. Even with a convex grind, even the pain in the arse CPM3V and fitting up some dovetailed bolsters- miles easier than the kitchen knives I make every day in, day out.
This may be a somewhat unpopular opinion, but hollow grinds are complete trash for large kitchen knives as they wedge in hard veg material and its really a very weak structure that can be extremely problematic a few years down the track when after enough sharpening it turns into a bit of an axe geometry. Just go very high, very flat and if you must you can throw in an S-grind or the like for food release. But that's not necessary because the bottom centimeter or half inch- you want that at a very subtle convex and it'll shed wet food easily enough.
Weight is subjective
But they are working knives, EDC stuff is mostly for people who don't want to be the desperately uncool situation of opening boxes with a set of car keys
Kitchen knife, every day at least once, most often twice a day and it'll take a beating so make sure the handle is solid and comfortable to use in a variety of ways, same with a Petty- they generally get used more by chefs than even their primary kitchen knife for the final trim and dressing so they are a hugely important knife in food prep.
Lot of different types- French, German, Chinese and the whole Japanese cutlery is its own madness- however most chefs typically get trained on French or German in western countries and that's what they stick to.
I will talk about steel because its very important as much as the geometry and what you're generally looking for is that terminal sharpness, how sharp can you get a piece of steel? Because that really does have a major bearing on the types of steel you should use and why very simple carbon, mid-carbon high alloy and stainless like AEBL get used and its because of that ultra fine, felt like grain structure with small carbides. Like if you wanted and I know people who tried to use something like REX121 for a kitchen knife and its truly terrible because its just a big lump of carbides that tear out and leave the super thin edge looking like it got gnawed on, its fine to have a lot of carbides but you need to make sure they're small.
I held off on the kitchen knife for a long time. Finally made a prototype which I struggled with. The grinding was painful to say the least as I do hunting knives and edc's mostly. Gave it to a friend for evaluation and now it's her absolute favorite. Now everyone wants one. Great topic Jeremy, thanks.
I like your little knife you made, I am building one something like your knife. Your right about the blade being thin to cut like you want it too unless you are using a chopper.
Not a knifemaker, but professionnal chef here.
I own two S-ground knives from James Oatley in australia, before those i used a Shun Kiritsuke knife (still do to this day depending on what i do).
They have replaced my whustoffs chef knives, i never touch them anymore.
The difference in cutting edge is incredible.
Sounds like my first kitchen knife for my wife.
This is some great information, and very timely. I'm planning a kitchen knife for my wife right now. Thank you for posting!
I personally hate grinding so I forge thin distal taper and planish so I grinder very little. Nice video thanks for sharing.
I also make kitchen and edc knives, and the first thing I discovered when getting started was exactly this. The thickness behind the edge is massively important. The thickness about an inch from the edge is also important when cutting thicker things like potatoes and especially carrots. Carrots will split even if you have .005" B.E.T, but have it too thick an inch up. For culinary knives I never use material more than .125" thick. After that I'd say the distal-taper and ergonomics are most important. I haven't dived into S-grinds yet but will one I invest in some jigs and wheels.
Thank for this vid mate. I’m about to start down the culinary knife rabbit hole and this has made me rethink a few things. Love the channel, love your content, keep up the great vids. 🤘🏻
Good Video. I make mostly custom hunters and have been doing more kitchen/prep knives.
I use mostly nitro V for the blades have found out about the wobble in the blade you mention. Needless to say it was an expensive lesson. Wish I had seen your video before I started. Thanks. NB
Now that you know... REGRIND YOU'RE WIFE'S FIRST KNIFE!
An idea for a kitchen knife. Are you familiar with the Kershaw composite blade? What if you did this with a blue steel SUS410 and titanium as your spine? I am not sure this is possible but if you could your leading/cutting edge would be more dense and heavier. I think this would give the user a sense of pull as the knife processed food. And the cutting edge of SUS410 can be very fine.
Nice. The importance of feedback.
kitchen knife you have to grind to cut in my exuberance i struggled with fallowing a set slandered geometry witch relies on edge sharpness for cutting performance for years but that's a mistake i could have had way more customers erlyer if i had a fallowed the idea of grinding to cut and a ex-stream focus on constancy of heat treating to support it . keep plugging a way at it
I was so nervous about you hurting your fingers the whole video 😂😂
,a cool video keep up the great content.. Thank you……
Great video and extremely helpful
What kind of finish do you use for kitchen knives.. I've been using a conditioning belt but after a few uses the drain pattern is scratched. I'm a chef making knife's as a hobby and pick up what you are putting down on thin and geometry just the finish looks good for like two days then nada
Convex blade, not slicy, I don’t like hollow grinds they stop slicing as the blade gets deeper, flat grinds, long shallow flat grinds !
8 months to hold sharpness what do you use as a cutting surface
End grain cutting boards. They do seam to be easy on the edge👍
I'm curious what your method is for hand sanding the hollow of the S grind?
Japanese kitchen knife build along?
knife bros are known for their legendary stupidity above all else. congrats on actually learning as you go though, that's something.
Thank you!
@@Simplelittlelife The masakage yuki was also one of the first Japanese knives I purchased. I have since regrinded the hollow bevels into more serviceable and better performing flat ones with a tiny bit of convexity behind the edge aiding in food release and also replaced those very light but terrible handles. Regardless of that they are still limited by the basic carbon steel they're made from. I do not believe that steel is very important at all in a kitchen knife but basic carbon steel makes zero sense next to even low alloy steels like say 52100 which is vastly superior to any of the traditional Japanese steel. As I continued to learn I consulted the Hitachi data sheets and learned that this "white steel" was never actually designed nor intended to be used in kitchen knives. That's what the blue steel is for. Blue steel is a low alloy steel rather than carbon steel. The smiths love white steel because it's very easy to forge and grind saving time and money and consumers don't know any better. Also learned that "super blue" is not the best of the blue steels, and was only called "super" in order to market it to towards Western audiences, while saving the actual top shelf stuff which is the Blue #1 for the best knives. Blue extra is more accurate translation than "blue super" which is a marketing term. The issue with the "super blue" is that it's as brittle as any steel could get. This all starts to make sense when you realize that "super blue" is much more commonly available than Blue #1 and is available on much cheaper knives. You can find it on knives that sell for $100 in North America whereas Blue #1 is much rarer and more exclusive, generally only used on more expensive knives. But like I said, 52100 is objectively better than any of these steels. Still, I'd take something like AEBL over all of the above though the aesthetics of a non stainless steel in a san mai format are certainly compelling.
I thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with me. I’ve screened shot your comment so I can go back and study all of this information. Very fascinating and I want to get a good grasp on the Japanese paper steels. Thank you so much!🙏👍
NORMALIZE KITCHEN KNIFE GEOMETRY IN EDC KNIVES!!
Thats what we specialize in here my friend 😎
I have dozen of knives, but the most used one is the simplest one. Small Ikea knive - SMÅBIT.
"Well"