@@littlefoot4417 Between 3rd and 7th all codices were compatible with the running edition (dunno about 2nd and 1st, because the game was only available since third in my home country). 8th was the first major and wildly necessary overhaul. 9th was basically an update to 8th where they tried to adapt the game to what the design team learned through 8th. 10th was the second major overhaul. If 10th is an anomaly, 11th and every edition that comes after it, will be compatible. If that is however a pattern 11th will be compatible, but in 12th we'll get new indexes again. I'd say the first one is more likely. You'll probably want the recent codex anyways. The times I said "Okay, this is the last edition I buy dexes for" are numerous. This might change however, because 10th is also the first edition that introduces an app and I would bet on that we will see more of that. I'd like to see the entire content in the app tho. Legends and Crusade aren't a part of it yet.
I personally think the pts on the weapons was a good check and balance to how Killy things where but at the same time it wasn’t very new player friendly
As a new player. I would have loved the choice paralysis to be honest 😅. Isn’t that what the game is about. Crafting your own army the way you want to and knowing if you take a stronger weapon you’re going to have less units. I came into 40K about 4 months ago and I’m still getting used to the rules. But knowing my knorne berserkers will count toward “x” number of points and will have to have 1 plasma and 4 bolters per unit. Is a bummer. I would have liked the option to get a few units with 2 chain axes, the captain with maybe one plasma pistol in each hand with the icon. I dunno mix and match maybe get their cost up by 20% but make them hit like a truck. Maybe even make one 5 man squad with only eviscerators but they cost more than a 10 man squad. I don’t know but the options would make the army my own and not a standard one EVERYONE Is running.
@@mikeg8564 this is a common suggestion but a very bad one imo. The rules need to do more than just achieve balance, they need to express the lore to a reasonable degree as well. Some options are supposed to be more valuable than others. It also isn't really possible to balance weapons that are supposed to fulfill completely different roles (for example, anti infantry and hard target removal), because some of those roles are inherently more valuable than others. There is a more detailed explanation for that (I can explain if you want but didn't want to write an essay), but it isn't really possible to balance the profiles of, say, a lascannons and a heavy bolter if you make them cost the same points.
@samhunter1205 got to disagree, a lazcanon and a heavy bolter can easily balanced as can a plasma gun and a flamer. As for lore. This is a game, balance is everything, either in points or profiles.... heck even in victory points (like in battlefleet gothic)
The set symmetrical terrain layouts is the worst part for me. And it's hard to get a pick up game these days where someone wants to just set up a cool table.
Is games workshop standing over you when you're setting up your table, making sure its symmetrical? Is games workshop actively punishing you for not having symmetrical terrain? No? Then do whatever you want.
@@dominikfiser3768 Many of us play primarily at local game stores and you need to find something people agree on. The social contract at many stores demands you adhere to certain rules and symmetrical tables is a common one.
Narrative player here. I think the game has been ruined by prioritizing game balance and tournament play. I had way more fun in 8th edition. Warhammer is now just a boring overly expensive game.
I want 40k to steal more from OPR. OPR found the solution to L-shaped ruins. All units have a bubble around them that not only blocks LOS but also provides cover. With a bigger board and a cap on weapon ranges you don't need ruins when you can simply maneuver your opponent. Alternating activations is such a big thing I can't overemphasize how much better it is. GW is an all or nothing game system. We need less dice rolling for simple things like advancing and charging, and the ability to stack more buffs. OPR does psychic powers really well too. There is no phase for it, but your casters are free to use their powers before shooting. Each army has a small list of spells, 3 are just damage, but the other 3 are buffs. Need to get your big slow model across the board? How about an extra 4" to movement? Spells are a coin flip whether they work, but if you bring other casters you can spend extra mana to improve your roll. Your opponent can also wager their own mana to counter it. Spell casting becomes it's own game where the casters themselves are competing and cooperating to get spells off, and you're trying to decide how much do you want to wager to make it happen? Probably the biggest advantage OPR has over 40k is the price. It's free. Your army rule, free. The rule book, free. Any changes to the rules are not in a separate errata or faq document they go back and they update the original document. Not only that but they have actual patch notes explaining what it was, what it is now, and why it changed. The advanced rulebook is only $5, not $60 and just got updated with an extra 20 some pages of free optional rules to make your games more fun and unique.
Bring back unit size and weapon options - we honestly shouldn’t pander to new players, not unless you want them to actually stick around and respect the hobby The easier it is for entry, the lower the quality of our communities will become as well as the quality of the game
I'm a very infrequent casual player of 40k, maybe 1 or 2 games in a year, I wonder if anyone else feels the same as me here. Maybe not since most will be more invested players. The amount of time and effort that has to go in to learning the rules just to play the game as intended is just far too much. Playing a default game is just horrendously chewy, it takes ages to set up, checking the rule book and your faction rules every 10 minutes or so, there's just way too much cognitive load that takes away from what I consider, a very poor experience as a casual player anyway. Imo the ruleset now is designed for balance in competitive play, and that's good for invested players who want a gaming-first experience. It is however, very poor for people who want to immerse themselves in the world of 40k through the game. There is absolutely nothing narratively exciting about having your units stand on 3" diameter circles for 5 turns, it really only loosely conveys a sensation of there being something important about the battle. Very rarely do I feel as a Tyranid player that I won a game, even if my score is higher than my opponents. It fees like I've micro managed a ruleset better, I didn't unleash a terrible hoard of aliens to consume a planet, I just hid my models correctly so as to get the biggest number at the end of the game. So there is the option of playing Crusade, which actually only adds more rules on top of the base game, causing it to be more effort to track, update, with every unit in your army potentially gaining bespoke traits - its too much! I've seen numerous times people advocate One Page Rules to get around the cognitive load element, which is a fine suggestion, but should there not be a more simple version of the official rules for casual players to use? Finally I feel as though the overall lethality of the game is downright disparaging. The ruleset over relies imo on players setting up a board with specific terrain, which, when playing a game on a dinner table at a friends' house, you may not have. Not to mention, even I am bored with the samey terrain setup, as infrequently as I play the game. Everything seems to be able to just wipe units out so quickly, and, if there is defensive counterplay to this, it is within the informed use of stratagems which is again just more cognitive load. I used to love playing 40k when I was a teenager, I guess I had more time to commit to rules study etc, so I can't objectively say that this is a problem with 10e specifically, but I am really disappointed that I've fallen right out of love with the game, because quite frankly the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
the rules change weekly, it seems. we were playing a lot with 9th, each game getting better at using strategies, but with 10th, it seems each game there's been a rules change and we don't really understand it. We got going for a bit a few months back, but then ground to a halt again with another rules change, and now we are arguing about a Q&A rule that came out recently that may or not have been FAQ's within the week, but we can't find the FAQ on the GW website, which is a disorganisesd SS. so no games
Me and my gaming buddy are veterans of the long war since 2nd Ed. We only have the opportunity to play every couple of months. It's impossible to get the rule set remembered to properly play the game.
I am also a casual tyranid player. I do feel the crushing wave of defeat even when I have more points at the end because I lost 1700 points of models and only killed 500. (Note you don't want to play campaign because you get punished for units dying after each mission... even I you're winning, you end up with the most battle scarred units) That being said, I still think 10th edition is the best edition have played (started I third). I do think lowering the point value of games and writing a narrative wrap-up does help with the standing on circles for the game helps with the playing for fun feel to the game. All of that being said, I my decades of 40K I have never felt it was a great game, but mostly a good time to burn several hours with a friend.
Dont know if you guys agree, but a huge issue is that the game all in all feels like a videogame. Quick to consume and forgetable. Personally i liked the loadout and Individual stuff on my heros and chars a lot.
Really? You can still equip your space marine captain with a variety of weapons and they come in all sorts of armours. Is it due to equipment being incorpotated in the model and unit costs?
@mortenbrandtjensen6470 no, he means there were a wide range of options to customise your characters in previous editions, things like warlord traits and relics, that you could combine to create far more unique and interesting characters.
Pricing a digital codex for more than 10€ is just predatory. I dont need the physical one as it is out of date before even getting to use it for the first time.
I started my nid collection with an 9th ed Combat Patrol and a Boarding patrol. By the time I was done magnetizing all 9 warrior, plus and extra I bought to be a Prime and all their arm options 10th comes out and makes all that work moot.
You did time-proof them for the future. I started in the 10th, and I am also magnetising almost everyone, as gw are assholes and it can be their shame to bring back weapons cost in future.
I think your point for #5 misses the mark a bit. The issue about 40K losing it's Narrative touch isn't because people aren't looking at different ways to play, as Crusade exists of course. It's that, fundamentally, 10th edition is designed with tournament play in mind at a core level, not just matched play in mind. At least 9th edition still had power level so you can play using different metrics than that of matched play points. Now in 10th, with everything being tied to points and tournament play being such a big focus, players are forced to play by their rules. Force organization is gone, rules are homogenized, random effects are gone, re-rolls are everywhere, diversity and self-expression through your army is gone. For example, Astra Militarum is no longer about representing a certain regiment, but a hodge podge of different datasheets with regiments acting as representatives despite this having no basis in the lore, many of the abilities being the same exact thing an equivalent unit in another faction can do. Cadian Shock Troops do the same thing as Primaris Intercessors. Death Korps Infantry do the same thing as Necron Warriors, Guard Infantry do the same thing as Heavy Intercessors. You don't collect Imperial Fists 3rd Company led by Tor Garadon, you play space marines and use the Dark Angels rules. You don't play the veterans of the Cadian 8th survivors of the fall, and your army being made up of expensive veteran soldiers across the list, you play Astra Militarum and use Death Korps Artillery, Cadian Tanks, and Catachan infantry, and Gaunt's Ghosts are there for some reason as well. In addition, certain units are deliberately priced out of 2,000 point lists because GW doesn't want them used in tournaments. Flyers are intentionally overcosted, despite overall being worse at the same job as tanks. Fortifications are the same way because they don't want players altering the terrain layouts of torunament boards. In order to use these, you either have to accept you are handicapping yourself just to field this one unit, and not even in a narrative, thematic way, or go all the way to 3000 point games. Moreover, systems like Apocalypse are discontinued, further disincentivizing collecting large armies or even playing large games outside of matched play. Not even that, if we were to just stick to 2,000 point games, tournament culture is so pervasive that it drives casual play as well. Nobody wants to do the book keeping involved with Crusade. Everyone is obsessed with the latest meta data, net lists, and hyper competitive strategies that it becomes difficult to even play 10th in a manner akin to older editions. You have to stay up to date with the latest FAQs, and have to play in the proscribed way the faction plays according to tournament players do or you are simply going to get tabled quickly. Simply put, you *can't* play narratively. Even "casual" play is competitive. This isn't unique to 40K either, as we see this cultural shift in video games as well. Every game with online play available becomes a speed run race to the bottom of diluting the game to the most meta builds and strategies to optimize the fun out of it for maximum efficiency until the game becomes stale and they move on to another game to repeat the process. Look at Call of Duty 4 versus Black Ops 6. They only share one similarity in the brand name and that's it. I think the worst part about this is they know what this is doing to the game and purposefully allow this because Horus Heresy exists and they basically just want to sequester off narrative players and fans of the older mechanics like Force Org and Chapter based tactics to this game system.
@@JTProud considering pretty much every year their revenue keeps increasing, I'd say they're pretty smart. Does not matter how we complain if we keep buying models and codexs and stuff.
@lullabygully4621 I feel that. Got into MCP and drifted away from 40K around maybe early September. In that time, they had a balance dataslate with a second one around the corner and a ministorum something or other immediately following that. Keeping up with constant changes is a full time hobby in and of itself. It’s the main thing deterring me from getting back to it.
@@evilkungfu I got back into 10th because the game is being balanced, fun and the models look great, don't know why you wold call it a stupid wip and call them dumb for patching their game.. I don't know what some of us gamer lot are on about tbh..
@rosvall216 oh I enjoy it for sure, but they do have their times where decisions are questionable and price increases have not exactly been justified. Otherwise I'm satisfied beyond codexs, I feel it's the most balanced it has been in a very long time and definitely more friendly to learn.
combat patrol seem to have horrible balance. Ive been playing my world eaters cp vs my friends with tyranids and ultramarines, and i just charge in without thinking and always win :P
Space marines shows a huge issue. An entire faction being shafted because gw releawes subfactions with broken rules applied on top of then. They are so bad at this. Why dont they have a separate cost for subfactions?
Completely see where you are coming from with a lot of these complaints. I have also tried some different ways to play my Space Marines after GW has spent the last year nerfing them until my list was made completely unusable, even in a casual setting. Unfortunately, I have had to stop playing entirely, because they really are that bad if you are not playing ultramarines or a divergent chapter. I'm hoping the December update will make them playable again. I would recommend the Bunker 40k missions included in the white dwarf magazines, if anyone is looking to try something new. It's nice to have an interesting new mission to play every month. Great discussion. You made a lot of good points. Thanks for sharing!
The game has way too many moving parts at the moment. You've got: Your faction wide army rule (easy to remember) Your detachment army rule (usually easy to remember) Every unit has bespoke special abilities (not so easy to remember) Every unit has bespoke weapons stats (not so easy to remember) Generic stratagems everyone has access to (easy to remember) Six bespoke detachment stratagems that each triggers in a different phase, sometimes in your opponent's turn (giant pain in the ass to remember) Now, in order to actually win games, you need to know all of the above not only for your army, but also for the army you're playing, less you get 'gotcha'd' or just plain cheated on. All the bespoke stuff and stratagems should be dumpstered. We played the game for seven editions without that crap. It's just an excuse to sell unit datacards and stratagem decks to the customer to make their life easier after making their life harder in the first place. Oh, and make codexes thin and cheap again. Why am I paying for a hardback codex that maybe works for a year before it gets FAQ'd or edition changed into obsolescence?
Went up against space wolves and his army had so many relics, i wish we had points for weapons so we just dont bring the best just because free instead of picking a very good weapon and the downside is you pay for it with either less units or some units having worse weapons
I don't like 10th edition because they got rid of all of the unique features from 9th edition that actually made the armies feel unique I understand that there was a lot of Rules bloat but still 10th edition is just a strip down version of 9th edition
i was lying in bed yesterday, remembering catalyst, encircle the prey, choosing weapons, dropping warriors with a tunneling trygon, the beautiful mortal dealing sword, such fun times. 10th is fine, but it in comparison with 9th? its boring af
Plasma pistols were shit until the current edition. I’m going to pay a space marine worth of points for one shot that is only 12” of range, that might kill my guy I put it on? No thanks. Being able to shoot pistols in combat differentiates and makes pistols worthwhile as an option (if it’s there).
I am new to the Warhammer40k hobby. I came from Magic which has it's own problems. My biggest problem is that the rules are inaccessible (specifically, hidden behind paywalls, on a cellphone app I don't want to use). The few times I have played have all featured the opponent using some stratagem I had no idea about that messes up my day, meanwhile I don't have a firm understanding of what stratagems are available to me. The few times I have played have been feel-bad moments where it felt my opponents were just making up rules on the spot and I had no recourse. I think I am going to stick with the building & painting aspect of the 40k hobby, I am not really interested in the wargame side of the hobby. Maybe if they release all codexes for free and I can actually see my own rules as well as my opponents I would consider trying again. Also I wouldn't mind if they dumb things down a bit as well. But until then I have some pile-of-shame to keep my busy.
I love having the codexes/physical stuff myself and glad that GW out in a code which WotC took forever to do with DnD, but there's not enough game stuff in the books to justify that price. There should be a separate digital option to buy at a remarkably reduced price. Plus you don't even get everything on the app when you redeem the code. Like, where are all my crusade options/rules? Plus give us more army list slots. Base/free dndbeyond has 6 character slots. You should get at least 1 per account plus an extra slot for each codex code you redeem.
Playing since 2nd, not a huge fan of the changes in terms of increasing focus on competitive play, decreasing focus on narrative (which used to be core to the experience!) and what seems to be an intent to trade uniqueness and stability (say, consistent rules which evolve rather than swing back and forth) for maximizing profits.
They gutted the whole play style of tau. I'm not interested in playing an army who's weapons are meant to split fire while getting punished doing so by our rule.
Regarding Print vs Digital - I imagine GW sells a lot of print Codices. But the cost of printing must be quite high in terms of materials, shipping and retail expenses (Especially vs the margins of $20-$30 digital access). That said, even if GW wanted to shift to digital, they may be beholden to whatever contracts they have set up with printers which may extend through a specific amount of time or projects.
"Chess or checkers", sumarises the feel of the game righ now perfectly. My main army are Space Marines / Imperial Fists and while we were really weak in 9th edition, there was a lot of funny little tricks to play around and I had ton of fun even in lost games. There is only void now.
I started in the 10th, and im hating the ride. I love the hobby, but I hate how shitty is GW at making rules, im even after just 8m boycotting gw products.
Not pricing best and wprst weapon loadouts differently is terrible design. They can have a casuals quickbattle option where squads cost 1-5 skulls and you decide how many skulls you play this time. For competitive this is bad design.
atm i'm not really enjoying 40k. they have made a lot of stupid changes like the movement changes they implemented now with the Pivot thing, it makes the game slower and some models are punished by it and others gain movement. also a lot of quick rules changes because of bad rules writing when they first come out, either them being to strong, bad wording or not working. we are starting to feel the early codex syndrome on the earlier edition codex, despite GW trying to tone down their codex. codex that come out are either really strong or really weak, feels like they have not been playtested or written by people who don't know/care about the faction they write rules about.
I cannot afford buying the new rulebook, 5 codices and all new models because they shelved my old ones every year. And this actively keeps me out from playing competitive warhammer.
I do love 10th edition. There is still so much creativity and list building compared to killteam. People are overreacting big time “oh no I can’t take a 9 man squad” slows the game down. They do need to bring back army formations back. Taking 10 tanks and no battle line is a literally joke.
Played with the Tyranid’s combat patrol over the last weekend and had a lot of fun! The only thing I suggest is to make sure your opponent does not use the grey knight combat patrol. The guy never had a chance.
It's amazing that combat patrols are so vital to the survival of the brand and they abandoned it completely. The whole point was they can be balanced at the datasheet level, but combat patrol datasheets are no different from the real game. They maybe have an ability or two removed that's it. I get that they each army is getting their combat patrol replaced with their codex, but it's been almost 2 years some of these armies are waiting to get a reworked patrol. Sometimes the new one is worse than the old one.
I can understand why someone might enjoy 10th edition, but IMHO this edition is extremely boring and feels like GW is aggressively milking the fans as hard as they can. FOMO and requiring both a subscription AND a codex purchase in order to use their barebones army building app are two examples off the top of the dome.
You either play Tournament style or not. If you don't... the only thing that matters, are the things both... no... all players involved agree on. 3v1 ? Go for it. Using your friends Trainset as Terrain ? Awesome. Give the Pistols Keyword to every Weapon ? Have Fun ! If you play casual and are bored... I am sorry, but that is your fault for not being creative enough, not GWs
Nice video. That being said, Gw does not listen to opinions at all. There is not a lot of logic to it- but what it comes down to is selling as many models as possible in as short of a time period. Balance exists only so people are not as disappointed so they would stop playing. Imbalance exists to sell new models with new rules. I've played since 3rd ed.
The good: -10th still feels like 40k. It's not exactly the same game as it was when I got into it in 2019, but it's still my favorite tabletop game. -I, controversially, sort of like rolling psychic powers into either passive buffs or a weapons profile. Necrons, Custodes, Admech, Tau, Drukhari, and others I'm sure, never interacted with the psychic phase. -My favorite character, Abaddon, is no longer functionally indestructible for a good chunk of the game. I believe in 9th he had boxnaught toughness, a ludicrous defensive profile (damage reduction from mark of Tzeentch/Nurgle, 4++ invul, his in-game plot armor that kept him from taking more rhan 3 wounds per phase )and weapons that would melt anything they touched. He was a fun piece in 9th, but toning him down was probably a wise choice. -Bringing back USRs make the game more accessible. I'm glad not every weapon in 10th has its own block of rules text. -The lack of a force org chart means you can theoretically depict more different types of military forces. A true, unending tyranid swarm? You got it, boss. Mechanized guard infantry? Super playable rn. The bad: -Shooting heavy editions are less fun than melee heavy editions. I wanna roll a giant bucket of dice at someone. -Some armies have spammable anti-tank weapons, other armies have no anti-tank weapons. I can run a reasonable Aeldari list with six brightlances, wraithguard armed with wraithcannons, a fire prism. Unless you wanna soup in a Knight, sisters have next to nothing that can consistently get wounds on armored vehicles. -The melta rule for the past three editions has been boring. Have it keep the damage the same but have a better chance to wound, like how it worked in 3rd-7th. -The more esoteric weapons in 3rd-7th had USRs to represent their weird effects (deflagrate for volkite, the graviton keyword, sunder, rending). That 10th lacks these makes the game decidedly less flavorful. -I miss bolter discipline and combat doctrines -I also miss burning command points to make unique characters. It really encouraged me to get creative with my Black Legion army. I gave my model that's meant to be Iskandar Khayon lord of the ezekarion and two relics. I just really liked doing that. -It might have been a bad idea to make weapon upgrades free, it was pretty neat when the weapons in 9th all had point costs ending in 5 or 0. -Combi-weapons. -Subfaction/detachment based restrictions on list composition generally seem to work better than "go buck wild and vaguely run this type of unit". If you wanted to play a certain army, you really had to commit. -Codices are still too long and expensive. The ugly: -Less points dense armies means more time spent painting and assembling and it makes armies cost more. -Someone's gonna go an entire edition without actual stratagems and army rules only for the next edition to not be backwards compatible with this one. -I heard the sound of millions of plastic arms being snapped off of torsos the moment the indexes started to drop. -Sisters players in particular got shafted. They have fewer detachments than any other army right now, and one of them is an archetype that no one asked for. -Thousands of Chaos Cultists are gonna sit on a shelf for a while, possibly forever. -I'd probably hate the changes to the psychic phase more if I played Thousand Sons or Grey Knights.
I am a white scar player. I can't imagine a realistic situation where GW makes fun for me. They would have to release a ton of models and rules, which they won't do and revert the whole "if you don't play ultramarines, codex sm will suck for your sm" . And l REALLY didn't like how 3500pts of my army turned in to 0pts of matched play legal models.
Fuck off ultramarines, why this hate?! Blame gw dude, for ultramarines its also not very nice, were at the bottom with you all! Space wolves were using white scars detachment, not ultramarines
Ive played since rogue trader. 5th was great as was 6th 7 and 8 were dumpster fires and 9th was was too "straty". 10th has been a breath of fresh air and im enjoyjng it more than any other edition. People alas just want to complain, 10th floats my boat without oodles of mental load. Also if i hear one more person say "mah first born sphasss mahrines..primaris are dumb" ill scream too. The wargear argument is immaterial. Personally i hated naked units to save points, it made units look stupid. At least in its current iterations you still have an optimal load out just like you always did, but without the annoyance of having to snap your weapons off after a balance update, making your models look shite
5th ed CSM player here, losing the customization that units have had for more than a decade was like letting shot in the back of the head. Loadouts being limited to whatever GW decided to throw in the box was an incredibly stupid move and I mostly stick to Horus Heresy for the fine tuning army building to express what I like to throw down against my buddies. Every edition/systems has its ups and downs but trying to get into 10th just sucks the creative inspiration out of move
While the balance and ease of access has been great for my community, I think they lost TOO much of the fluff in 10th ed. Obviously it was super imbalanced at first, but after the fixes this games has been INSANELY balanced( which is a good thing) but man i just miss relics + warlord traits, just bring back all those cool options we had in 9th and I think it would fix a lot of the lack of fluff
Set unit costing makes a lot of sense though, in previous editions you could have unit's that weren't equipped to deal with anything outside of what their standard weapons could handle, forcing a player to have to take good weapons does make sense, in a real battle something like a missile launcher, flamer and specialised close combat weapons in each unit is a necessity. Players beings able to completely avoid that to make an objective minding unit really isn't in the spirit of war and nor is it realistic, that said, making the jumbo cannon and the head smasher (I know they aren't called that!) as always being the only choices due to points efficiency also seems wrong, so yes FORCE players to have to take upgrades but cost them appropriately so that we can also see those other options.
For me trying to learn , the game feels like there is just so much overwhelming things. The over abundant amount of "extra" rules" or "bonus" things to add more rules into characters etc.. most of the time I cannot remember half the things my guys do and the game feels less fun because Im like "Oh I could have done that, or I could have done this" but I forgot to. Just setting up the game is a massive learning experience not to mention trying to understand and use all these apps. Im not going to say it's all on GW end , it's def partly my fault I guess but being new it's like where do I look to know how to even setup proper ? Where do I go to learn how to setup an army list that is decent but fun? When people create TH-cam videos talking lists, most speak about it like everyone is understanding EVERYTHING and it's not much help it's just a front load of information that makes no sense. I love playing when I can but it's so overwhelming I just wish I understood more.
Play at 1500 pts points instead of 2000 pts helps a lot As 4th edition when I started , The "crying" from professional players & them getting the Amazon "cave in" is getting old Tournament has in 10th dominates everything . It has become "Call of Duty" on table top . L shape ruins have hurt Tournament play , because it the main terrain "Nerfing" units with no stat checks within a week , instead of letting the meta figure it out Letting 1 faction "rule" for 1st 8 months with weak "Nerfs"
Make the rules free and make the codexes art, lore and maybe sample rules. The rules are gonna change anyway. They can still release the models at the same time as the codexes to get a huge wave of sales but if the rules are available to everyone it would make playing easier.
The current problem with points isn't that they're the same cost it's, ones clearly better. They should be balanced, so it's a choice.. do i pick an inaccurate kill weapon or a reliable low damage weapon, or this weapon is anti infantry vs. that one that is anti tank.
Otherwise I agree, there is a ton of options to play and boarding actions is amazing! Look into white dwarf 49x issues for some fun missions. I recommend the ones with past and present
My winged hive tyrant rolled very well during all yhe practice matches and then i got to the tournament. One game I rolled 1 three times taking way too many mortal wounds.
Played like this for the first time this weekend gone with my votann v WE. I did ok but felt like that rule favours fast moving mellee armies that can bounce up the board through terrain. You can't shoot them and to go in the ruin is suicide. Ruins should not be a magic box of total protection. I feel like. 50/50 split is better
Loadouts aren't fixed enough for my taste. 10 Models Death Company with Jumppacks and 5 different combinations of Weapons. Stuff like that only slows down the game
40k is easier than ever to get into because all the fat has been cut from it. Unfortunately, like with food, that fat has all the flavor. It is more flexible in other ways, specifically the detachments not locking you to a color scheme. It is easy to throw a game together without having the rules fresh. 40k is middle of the road for me right now, not awful but not memorable either. What I don't like about 40k, Heresy provides with abundance. So I find it tough to complain too much since my desires are still being met across the two systems.
I’m here because of SM2. Bought an introduction model set for my son and I to see how he would like it. Had a lot of fun. I was thinking about getting the Ultimate Starter set for him and I to play with. But after reading a lot of the comments I am feeling a bit discouraged as I really like this universe and had high hopes for entering in it. But I don’t want to cough up a good amount of money if the game is boring/not fun. Anyone have any suggestions?
Ignore what Tournament GamesWorkshop is doing. Buy the set. Play them at with home rules in your house. Using codex as baseline for units. Have fun with the world. Don't narrow yourself with what the company wants
Ya I guess from a complete novice perspective I get worried reading a lot of the veteran players comments and feel like I wouldn’t even know where to start as to what would be a good investment to have fun with. I wouldn’t mind buying the set not a big deal, it’s just if it is boring to play. I would rather hear from people here than at the GW store. Not sure what to believe. It’s frustrating because this universe is right up my alley and was having some high hopes. My son and I really enjoyed putting the models together and getting them painted. And I was about to go on that ultimate starter set but now I am not so sure?
The best thing you can do is just ignore all the whiney bs and play combat patrol with your son and ignore all the old timey back in my day kind of talk
I'd feel things out with a coffee table, a single character, battleline and monster/walker unit for both you and your son, with household items as terrain, and avoid reddit like it's been shown to cause rapid-onset metastatic brain cancer.
Ya I think I will go with the ultimate starter set then. At the very least we will enjoy putting the models together and painting them which will be worth the money just for the memory alone.
Arks of omen was the peak balance between tournament play and fun narrative, 10th is pure boring tournament games, customization has gone down the drain and characters are so boring. Free wargear means there is zero point in not taking same loadoats everywhere. 10th is just so boring and soulless.
The game , if you happen to play in a place that prefares matched play , is hard to pick up and the rotation of armies/builds going from good&fun to trash puts you on a quarterly schedul. It is not an all army thing (sob&necron have been fun for more then 3 months), but it is true for a lot of armies. Especialy marine ones. At the same time army choices in some cases punish you brutaly. Want play big chaos knight, castellan robots focused admecha , WS/IF/RG ? I don't know what your opponent have to do to make your games fun. Not do anything for a turn? And GW ain't fixing that. And the community will tell you to play the game in a proper way, with proper list/build. And the worse of it is that codex won't save you. They are often side grades , or worse nerfs , to a point where people would rather play the index.
Biggest issues? Codices soon illegal due to another version being released. How about eldar codex just before 11th? Purposeful shelving of minis. Many forgotten 7nchanged minis that have been bad for years. Purposeful broken relases balanced to sell. Fomo gw releases. Not allowed to play without only official stuff in most tournaments. And the codex itself is already out of date a week after releease yet they push me to buy then. Diagusting. Gw is an abusive organisation that treats its users like gacha and gambling companies treats their users. Use resin printers, downloaded rules and always shame all TOs that enforce only gw stuff. Distinct alternative models and printer/digital rules MUST be allowed or you are only ruining the hobby and gatekeeping it against those who cannot spend 1k per month to play tournaments. Never allow any new releaes until the FUXKING COMMUNITY HAS DECIDED HOW ITS TO BE BALANCED. Not the gw sales department. Shameful display by gw.
For the fixed load outs I think what they did with Tau is the way to go. Having certain load outs listed as a separate unit in the data sheet is perfect. Then the unit can be priced accordingly based off what loadout you want to take but still keeping list building fast and simple.
Points for weapon profiles is bad. every gun has a use into some type of meta. from a balancing stand point that would be a nightmare. It would be nice to have a larger mission rule set and more layouts.
I agree to an extent. Most weapons should be the same cost. But some units can carry weapons with significantly different firepower. It those more edge cases, I think things should be addressed.
Im in the minority. I only want physical versions. maybe in 8 years i wanna play an old edition with physical versions you can at least play rules as written. If nobody knew all the updates.
40k codices used to be a few pages of art and fluff text to get an overall feel for the vibe of a faction and the rest was rules. It'd make sense even to have "play" codices that are thin, soft cover and cheap, and "premium" codices that have all the glossy, full color artworks bound in a hard cover. 40k used to include basic unit rules in the back of the instructions booklets, maybe we should just go back to that.
Thanks you 👍 3 - more easy to balance the game, the 10th is a better version, update every month... 6 - to day it is possible to play and build lsi without codex, 100% digita, (list pdf) & free 😉. I play with a digital's tablet . My Codex is useless now 🤔 Plz averybody, stop to oppose compétitive & narrative game 😢 Play has you want, all is possible. Juste imagine your games 👍 PS : combat patrols is borring and not balance 😮💨 I Hope we had spearhead rules for 40k, this mode is very good.
The game needs to be more lethal the closer to the unit. The highest damage weapons should have very short threat ranges (like 6" movement no advance and charge melee units, or 12" melta with 6" movement). The longest threat range guns should be substantially less effective per turn. If you got a 14" move, that is added to the gun's range to find the threat range. It is the threat range that should determine how deadly the gun should be.
@@samhunter1205 You could do it that way. But I would at least increase substantially the cost of weapons that both do damage and are long range. It should be more multiplicative, so long range + high damage is a lot more than either long range+low damage or low damage+long range.
@obsidi2 why do you think this is a specific problem? Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of issues with 40k rules, but I am not sure the blanket approach you are arguing for is necessarily the right way forward. Even if you have concerns about the balance between melee and ranged there are other ways to fix it.
@@samhunter1205 Because, currently, a lot of the time when you can be seen, you die the next turn. That means heavy use of obscuring terrain is necessary to ensure balance. If too little terrain is used, it substantially throws off the balance in the game. But if you lower substantially the range of "deadly" threats, and instead have more long range low damage and high damage short range, it both solves the problem of effectively mandating sufficient terrain (to have good balance), and increasing strategic play (because if your range is lower, then where you are on the board becomes more strategically important). While melee armies do have a lot of positional strategy, currently, their options are currently rather limited by the few locations where they can hide behind obscuring. Range options, however, positionally are only looking for long shooting lanes--the longer the better.
@obsidi2 using adequate terrain isn't necessarily a problem imo, it only really becomes so if the board is so obstructed that larger units can't navigate it. You can also address the situations you describe by having weapons be less deadly in general, or by tinkering with other rules, like the entirely stupid and immersion breaking rule that says if the pinky finger of one model is visible then the entire squad can be picked up by direct fire weapons that can't otherwise see them. That latter one is key imo - it is a big move away from older versions of 40k but it really skews things and makes much more dense terrain especially necessary.
Games way to power gamey for me, all lists are half the points in characters and as much cheese you can fit in with the rest of the points and to be frank it was boring, so I stopped playing.
I have been playing since 1987 or so when 40k was released. Not flexing but it is what it is. Here's the problem. It's a video game now. If I want to play a video game I'll go play Dawn of War. Then there's this "balance" bullshit. There is no such thing as a balanced game. Period. Even Chess, checkers and go aren't balanced. It's never going to happen. I'm playing a tabletop game. Not going to buy the new DLC. Sorry not sorry. The terrain thing is absolutely dumb. At this point all you're doing is seeing who can roll the better dice. I can do that here at my desk. There is never going to be a way to out math it either. In essence, all the fun is gone in favor of lame ass esports. Which isn't a tabletop game anymore. It's why players are leaving and older players aren't going to come back. I didn't spend 20+ years collecting an army just to see it wiped out because of "balance" which doesn't exist. There ya go.
Yeah but it's not fun to play dogshit army just because gw got 2 rules designing teams, one is retarded and other one gives amazing codex. I don't want to pay the same price as you and being stomped upon for years. In chess, there is like 5% winrate difference, in 40k currently like 25% between strong factions and codex marines or imperial agents.
40k struggles to strike the right balance between its fluff, where most forces generally aren't evenly matched, and its crunch, where it has to be a game and you have to make every army at least somewhat appealing to play. Excess fluff leads to things like Rogue Trader's turn radius ratio rules, which often involved protractors and, notably, didn't even accurately depict how tanks move and turn. Too much crunch and we get 10th edition. 9th felt like it hit a sweet spot, even if the codices were ridiculous. There were enough fun, fluffy things in listbuilding that could influence rad kitbashes, and I remember people being generally positive about 9th.
@@emzetkin1100 I have to completely agree. I hated vehicles until like 4th ed. Still miss scatter dice though. I really dug 8th/9th. I don't mind the points stuff being static it's just 10th is flat out boring. It's also seeming to breed more douchebag players because they just don't know anything else. Whenevr I go against a "broken" army I like it because then I can use tactics and strategy. It makes a challenge and motivation to find a way to beat it. Now it's just a dice game. Meh. I have choices nowadays which is cool.
As someone completely new, who recently observed a tournament for the first time: 1. Moving a whole army in a single turn, while the opponent waits is merciless. Wouldn't it make more sense to activate a unit in alteration? 2. The amount of rules is a bit insane... 3. ...and they get rebalanced all the time. I'm having League of Legends vibes where when I was playing I needed to ALWAYS be up to date with rules. 4. Forcing people to buy paper rules is INSANE, bad way to go GW. Yeah, I know about Wahapedia now but it's just the company policy/approach that should change. The greed is insane. I'd love to get into this hobby more, but the wall seems too tall at the moment.
No alternating activations is indeed crazy, a very bad system that unfortunately GW seem to have decided they will never, ever change. My play group have our version of the rules where we implemented alternating activations, but it does take a bit of work to make it function right.
Please do not bring back psi phase or weapon costs... The first would even more slow down the game and the second is a nightmare from balancing perspective.
Physical rules... GW knows that it is no longer 1987 right ? The Rules are allready free off charge available online, so are the codexes. Paying to much for the Models themself... fine... But paying for a Book wih Rules, in 2024... what are they smocking ?
As a necron paper fuck your psychic phase. Its just a magic shooting phase and needed its own subset of rules and confusion. Ya'll just shooting mind bullets :P
That’s not what it was though. Aeldari used it to cast spells that gave us extra movement, shrouded units from enemy sight lines, and gave things bonuses to the stats. Space Marines might have just had “I cast gun”, but Aeldari lost a lot of our identity when the psychic phase was removed. They weren’t sure how to fix it, so just made the army really killy, which is why early 10th was so unbalanced.
The main thing that annoy me: is the constant mayor rules changes and balance. Im ok with minor fixes but at this point I will wait until the end of 10th to have the final rules.
Make the rules free and make the codexes art, lore and maybe sample rules. The rules are gonna change anyway. They can still release the models at the same time as the codexes to get a huge wave of sales but if the rules are available to everyone it would make playing easier.
The codexes are a waste of money if they keep changing things as they do currently.
M’y Hope is the next edition of 40K is essentially 10.5. Where you can still use the codex’s released with points and core rules updates
@@littlefoot4417 that's generally how they've always done things, so here's to hoping they stick to that pattern.
@ yes! They stopped after 8th u believe?
I wasn’t playing then, only painting
@@littlefoot4417 Between 3rd and 7th all codices were compatible with the running edition (dunno about 2nd and 1st, because the game was only available since third in my home country). 8th was the first major and wildly necessary overhaul. 9th was basically an update to 8th where they tried to adapt the game to what the design team learned through 8th. 10th was the second major overhaul. If 10th is an anomaly, 11th and every edition that comes after it, will be compatible. If that is however a pattern 11th will be compatible, but in 12th we'll get new indexes again.
I'd say the first one is more likely. You'll probably want the recent codex anyways. The times I said "Okay, this is the last edition I buy dexes for" are numerous. This might change however, because 10th is also the first edition that introduces an app and I would bet on that we will see more of that. I'd like to see the entire content in the app tho. Legends and Crusade aren't a part of it yet.
new recruit is the best rn as far as ive seen.
I personally think the pts on the weapons was a good check and balance to how Killy things where but at the same time it wasn’t very new player friendly
As a new player. I would have loved the choice paralysis to be honest 😅. Isn’t that what the game is about. Crafting your own army the way you want to and knowing if you take a stronger weapon you’re going to have less units. I came into 40K about 4 months ago and I’m still getting used to the rules. But knowing my knorne berserkers will count toward “x” number of points and will have to have 1 plasma and 4 bolters per unit. Is a bummer. I would have liked the option to get a few units with 2 chain axes, the captain with maybe one plasma pistol in each hand with the icon. I dunno mix and match maybe get their cost up by 20% but make them hit like a truck. Maybe even make one 5 man squad with only eviscerators but they cost more than a 10 man squad. I don’t know but the options would make the army my own and not a standard one EVERYONE Is running.
The current problem isn't that they're the same points it's, ones clearly better.
They should be balanced so it's a choice
It was really bad for old players too as most of the models were not ready for free wargear... Rocking those suboptimal options baby!
@@mikeg8564 this is a common suggestion but a very bad one imo. The rules need to do more than just achieve balance, they need to express the lore to a reasonable degree as well. Some options are supposed to be more valuable than others. It also isn't really possible to balance weapons that are supposed to fulfill completely different roles (for example, anti infantry and hard target removal), because some of those roles are inherently more valuable than others. There is a more detailed explanation for that (I can explain if you want but didn't want to write an essay), but it isn't really possible to balance the profiles of, say, a lascannons and a heavy bolter if you make them cost the same points.
@samhunter1205 got to disagree, a lazcanon and a heavy bolter can easily balanced as can a plasma gun and a flamer.
As for lore. This is a game, balance is everything, either in points or profiles.... heck even in victory points (like in battlefleet gothic)
The set symmetrical terrain layouts is the worst part for me. And it's hard to get a pick up game these days where someone wants to just set up a cool table.
it's the competitive focus GW seems to be dead set on with 10th that ruins this
Is games workshop standing over you when you're setting up your table, making sure its symmetrical? Is games workshop actively punishing you for not having symmetrical terrain? No? Then do whatever you want.
@@dominikfiser3768 Many of us play primarily at local game stores and you need to find something people agree on. The social contract at many stores demands you adhere to certain rules and symmetrical tables is a common one.
Narrative player here. I think the game has been ruined by prioritizing game balance and tournament play. I had way more fun in 8th edition. Warhammer is now just a boring overly expensive game.
I want 40k to steal more from OPR. OPR found the solution to L-shaped ruins. All units have a bubble around them that not only blocks LOS but also provides cover. With a bigger board and a cap on weapon ranges you don't need ruins when you can simply maneuver your opponent. Alternating activations is such a big thing I can't overemphasize how much better it is. GW is an all or nothing game system. We need less dice rolling for simple things like advancing and charging, and the ability to stack more buffs.
OPR does psychic powers really well too. There is no phase for it, but your casters are free to use their powers before shooting. Each army has a small list of spells, 3 are just damage, but the other 3 are buffs. Need to get your big slow model across the board? How about an extra 4" to movement? Spells are a coin flip whether they work, but if you bring other casters you can spend extra mana to improve your roll. Your opponent can also wager their own mana to counter it. Spell casting becomes it's own game where the casters themselves are competing and cooperating to get spells off, and you're trying to decide how much do you want to wager to make it happen?
Probably the biggest advantage OPR has over 40k is the price. It's free. Your army rule, free. The rule book, free. Any changes to the rules are not in a separate errata or faq document they go back and they update the original document. Not only that but they have actual patch notes explaining what it was, what it is now, and why it changed. The advanced rulebook is only $5, not $60 and just got updated with an extra 20 some pages of free optional rules to make your games more fun and unique.
Bring back unit size and weapon options - we honestly shouldn’t pander to new players, not unless you want them to actually stick around and respect the hobby
The easier it is for entry, the lower the quality of our communities will become as well as the quality of the game
I'm a very infrequent casual player of 40k, maybe 1 or 2 games in a year, I wonder if anyone else feels the same as me here. Maybe not since most will be more invested players.
The amount of time and effort that has to go in to learning the rules just to play the game as intended is just far too much. Playing a default game is just horrendously chewy, it takes ages to set up, checking the rule book and your faction rules every 10 minutes or so, there's just way too much cognitive load that takes away from what I consider, a very poor experience as a casual player anyway.
Imo the ruleset now is designed for balance in competitive play, and that's good for invested players who want a gaming-first experience. It is however, very poor for people who want to immerse themselves in the world of 40k through the game. There is absolutely nothing narratively exciting about having your units stand on 3" diameter circles for 5 turns, it really only loosely conveys a sensation of there being something important about the battle. Very rarely do I feel as a Tyranid player that I won a game, even if my score is higher than my opponents. It fees like I've micro managed a ruleset better, I didn't unleash a terrible hoard of aliens to consume a planet, I just hid my models correctly so as to get the biggest number at the end of the game.
So there is the option of playing Crusade, which actually only adds more rules on top of the base game, causing it to be more effort to track, update, with every unit in your army potentially gaining bespoke traits - its too much!
I've seen numerous times people advocate One Page Rules to get around the cognitive load element, which is a fine suggestion, but should there not be a more simple version of the official rules for casual players to use?
Finally I feel as though the overall lethality of the game is downright disparaging. The ruleset over relies imo on players setting up a board with specific terrain, which, when playing a game on a dinner table at a friends' house, you may not have. Not to mention, even I am bored with the samey terrain setup, as infrequently as I play the game. Everything seems to be able to just wipe units out so quickly, and, if there is defensive counterplay to this, it is within the informed use of stratagems which is again just more cognitive load.
I used to love playing 40k when I was a teenager, I guess I had more time to commit to rules study etc, so I can't objectively say that this is a problem with 10e specifically, but I am really disappointed that I've fallen right out of love with the game, because quite frankly the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
the rules change weekly, it seems. we were playing a lot with 9th, each game getting better at using strategies, but with 10th, it seems each game there's been a rules change and we don't really understand it. We got going for a bit a few months back, but then ground to a halt again with another rules change, and now we are arguing about a Q&A rule that came out recently that may or not have been FAQ's within the week, but we can't find the FAQ on the GW website, which is a disorganisesd SS.
so no games
Me and my gaming buddy are veterans of the long war since 2nd Ed. We only have the opportunity to play every couple of months. It's impossible to get the rule set remembered to properly play the game.
I am also a casual tyranid player.
I do feel the crushing wave of defeat even when I have more points at the end because I lost 1700 points of models and only killed 500. (Note you don't want to play campaign because you get punished for units dying after each mission... even I you're winning, you end up with the most battle scarred units)
That being said, I still think 10th edition is the best edition have played (started I third).
I do think lowering the point value of games and writing a narrative wrap-up does help with the standing on circles for the game helps with the playing for fun feel to the game.
All of that being said, I my decades of 40K I have never felt it was a great game, but mostly a good time to burn several hours with a friend.
Dont know if you guys agree, but a huge issue is that the game all in all feels like a videogame. Quick to consume and forgetable. Personally i liked the loadout and Individual stuff on my heros and chars a lot.
100% agree, my entire playgroup have ditched 10th largely as a result.
Really? You can still equip your space marine captain with a variety of weapons and they come in all sorts of armours.
Is it due to equipment being incorpotated in the model and unit costs?
@mortenbrandtjensen6470 no, he means there were a wide range of options to customise your characters in previous editions, things like warlord traits and relics, that you could combine to create far more unique and interesting characters.
Pricing a digital codex for more than 10€ is just predatory. I dont need the physical one as it is out of date before even getting to use it for the first time.
I started my nid collection with an 9th ed Combat Patrol and a Boarding patrol. By the time I was done magnetizing all 9 warrior, plus and extra I bought to be a Prime and all their arm options 10th comes out and makes all that work moot.
You did time-proof them for the future. I started in the 10th, and I am also magnetising almost everyone, as gw are assholes and it can be their shame to bring back weapons cost in future.
I think your point for #5 misses the mark a bit.
The issue about 40K losing it's Narrative touch isn't because people aren't looking at different ways to play, as Crusade exists of course. It's that, fundamentally, 10th edition is designed with tournament play in mind at a core level, not just matched play in mind. At least 9th edition still had power level so you can play using different metrics than that of matched play points. Now in 10th, with everything being tied to points and tournament play being such a big focus, players are forced to play by their rules. Force organization is gone, rules are homogenized, random effects are gone, re-rolls are everywhere, diversity and self-expression through your army is gone.
For example, Astra Militarum is no longer about representing a certain regiment, but a hodge podge of different datasheets with regiments acting as representatives despite this having no basis in the lore, many of the abilities being the same exact thing an equivalent unit in another faction can do. Cadian Shock Troops do the same thing as Primaris Intercessors. Death Korps Infantry do the same thing as Necron Warriors, Guard Infantry do the same thing as Heavy Intercessors. You don't collect Imperial Fists 3rd Company led by Tor Garadon, you play space marines and use the Dark Angels rules. You don't play the veterans of the Cadian 8th survivors of the fall, and your army being made up of expensive veteran soldiers across the list, you play Astra Militarum and use Death Korps Artillery, Cadian Tanks, and Catachan infantry, and Gaunt's Ghosts are there for some reason as well. In addition, certain units are deliberately priced out of 2,000 point lists because GW doesn't want them used in tournaments. Flyers are intentionally overcosted, despite overall being worse at the same job as tanks. Fortifications are the same way because they don't want players altering the terrain layouts of torunament boards. In order to use these, you either have to accept you are handicapping yourself just to field this one unit, and not even in a narrative, thematic way, or go all the way to 3000 point games. Moreover, systems like Apocalypse are discontinued, further disincentivizing collecting large armies or even playing large games outside of matched play.
Not even that, if we were to just stick to 2,000 point games, tournament culture is so pervasive that it drives casual play as well. Nobody wants to do the book keeping involved with Crusade. Everyone is obsessed with the latest meta data, net lists, and hyper competitive strategies that it becomes difficult to even play 10th in a manner akin to older editions. You have to stay up to date with the latest FAQs, and have to play in the proscribed way the faction plays according to tournament players do or you are simply going to get tabled quickly. Simply put, you *can't* play narratively. Even "casual" play is competitive.
This isn't unique to 40K either, as we see this cultural shift in video games as well. Every game with online play available becomes a speed run race to the bottom of diluting the game to the most meta builds and strategies to optimize the fun out of it for maximum efficiency until the game becomes stale and they move on to another game to repeat the process. Look at Call of Duty 4 versus Black Ops 6. They only share one similarity in the brand name and that's it.
I think the worst part about this is they know what this is doing to the game and purposefully allow this because Horus Heresy exists and they basically just want to sequester off narrative players and fans of the older mechanics like Force Org and Chapter based tactics to this game system.
I think there should be a "premium" version of the app that just allows you to see rules.
They have to get rid of rerolls. Keep those at a minimum. Play the ball where it lays and the same as the rolls.
The only problem I have is the constant "balancing" 10 editions and they still refuse to stabilize the rules for the sake of selling specfic models.
Seriously, it's embarrassing. 40 years, 10 editions, and it's STILL a work in progress? Are they stupid?
@@JTProud considering pretty much every year their revenue keeps increasing, I'd say they're pretty smart. Does not matter how we complain if we keep buying models and codexs and stuff.
@lullabygully4621 I feel that. Got into MCP and drifted away from 40K around maybe early September. In that time, they had a balance dataslate with a second one around the corner and a ministorum something or other immediately following that. Keeping up with constant changes is a full time hobby in and of itself. It’s the main thing deterring me from getting back to it.
@@evilkungfu I got back into 10th because the game is being balanced, fun and the models look great, don't know why you wold call it a stupid wip and call them dumb for patching their game.. I don't know what some of us gamer lot are on about tbh..
@rosvall216 oh I enjoy it for sure, but they do have their times where decisions are questionable and price increases have not exactly been justified. Otherwise I'm satisfied beyond codexs, I feel it's the most balanced it has been in a very long time and definitely more friendly to learn.
combat patrol seem to have horrible balance. Ive been playing my world eaters cp vs my friends with tyranids and ultramarines, and i just charge in without thinking and always win :P
I confirme and quickly borring 😅
Spearhead is the way for 40k combat patrols mode.
Tournament Play is fantastic.......for Tournament Players, the rest of us have to live with it.
I’d rather buy a physical product than have my license removed randomly and lose access to something I payed for.
That is a friend point. In my theory you'd get a digital download too, which should never go away.
Space marines shows a huge issue. An entire faction being shafted because gw releawes subfactions with broken rules applied on top of then. They are so bad at this. Why dont they have a separate cost for subfactions?
Yup
Completely see where you are coming from with a lot of these complaints. I have also tried some different ways to play my Space Marines after GW has spent the last year nerfing them until my list was made completely unusable, even in a casual setting. Unfortunately, I have had to stop playing entirely, because they really are that bad if you are not playing ultramarines or a divergent chapter. I'm hoping the December update will make them playable again.
I would recommend the Bunker 40k missions included in the white dwarf magazines, if anyone is looking to try something new. It's nice to have an interesting new mission to play every month.
Great discussion. You made a lot of good points. Thanks for sharing!
The game has way too many moving parts at the moment. You've got:
Your faction wide army rule (easy to remember)
Your detachment army rule (usually easy to remember)
Every unit has bespoke special abilities (not so easy to remember)
Every unit has bespoke weapons stats (not so easy to remember)
Generic stratagems everyone has access to (easy to remember)
Six bespoke detachment stratagems that each triggers in a different phase, sometimes in your opponent's turn (giant pain in the ass to remember)
Now, in order to actually win games, you need to know all of the above not only for your army, but also for the army you're playing, less you get 'gotcha'd' or just plain cheated on.
All the bespoke stuff and stratagems should be dumpstered. We played the game for seven editions without that crap. It's just an excuse to sell unit datacards and stratagem decks to the customer to make their life easier after making their life harder in the first place.
Oh, and make codexes thin and cheap again. Why am I paying for a hardback codex that maybe works for a year before it gets FAQ'd or edition changed into obsolescence?
Went up against space wolves and his army had so many relics, i wish we had points for weapons so we just dont bring the best just because free instead of picking a very good weapon and the downside is you pay for it with either less units or some units having worse weapons
GW has problems writing rules for a game that is 40 uears old.
I don't like 10th edition because they got rid of all of the unique features from 9th edition that actually made the armies feel unique I understand that there was a lot of Rules bloat but still 10th edition is just a strip down version of 9th edition
i was lying in bed yesterday, remembering catalyst, encircle the prey, choosing weapons, dropping warriors with a tunneling trygon, the beautiful mortal dealing sword, such fun times.
10th is fine, but it in comparison with 9th? its boring af
Plasma pistols were shit until the current edition. I’m going to pay a space marine worth of points for one shot that is only 12” of range, that might kill my guy I put it on?
No thanks.
Being able to shoot pistols in combat differentiates and makes pistols worthwhile as an option (if it’s there).
I am new to the Warhammer40k hobby. I came from Magic which has it's own problems. My biggest problem is that the rules are inaccessible (specifically, hidden behind paywalls, on a cellphone app I don't want to use). The few times I have played have all featured the opponent using some stratagem I had no idea about that messes up my day, meanwhile I don't have a firm understanding of what stratagems are available to me. The few times I have played have been feel-bad moments where it felt my opponents were just making up rules on the spot and I had no recourse. I think I am going to stick with the building & painting aspect of the 40k hobby, I am not really interested in the wargame side of the hobby. Maybe if they release all codexes for free and I can actually see my own rules as well as my opponents I would consider trying again. Also I wouldn't mind if they dumb things down a bit as well. But until then I have some pile-of-shame to keep my busy.
Try use wahapedia, it have all the rules
Wahapedia is your friend
I love having the codexes/physical stuff myself and glad that GW out in a code which WotC took forever to do with DnD, but there's not enough game stuff in the books to justify that price. There should be a separate digital option to buy at a remarkably reduced price. Plus you don't even get everything on the app when you redeem the code. Like, where are all my crusade options/rules? Plus give us more army list slots. Base/free dndbeyond has 6 character slots. You should get at least 1 per account plus an extra slot for each codex code you redeem.
Playing since 2nd, not a huge fan of the changes in terms of increasing focus on competitive play, decreasing focus on narrative (which used to be core to the experience!) and what seems to be an intent to trade uniqueness and stability (say, consistent rules which evolve rather than swing back and forth) for maximizing profits.
They gutted the whole play style of tau. I'm not interested in playing an army who's weapons are meant to split fire while getting punished doing so by our rule.
Regarding Print vs Digital - I imagine GW sells a lot of print Codices. But the cost of printing must be quite high in terms of materials, shipping and retail expenses (Especially vs the margins of $20-$30 digital access). That said, even if GW wanted to shift to digital, they may be beholden to whatever contracts they have set up with printers which may extend through a specific amount of time or projects.
You make a really good point about the printing contracts!
I use digital tablet with pdf list. It is perfect 👌
I really need the psychic phase back
"Chess or checkers", sumarises the feel of the game righ now perfectly. My main army are Space Marines / Imperial Fists and while we were really weak in 9th edition, there was a lot of funny little tricks to play around and I had ton of fun even in lost games. There is only void now.
I started in the 10th, and im hating the ride. I love the hobby, but I hate how shitty is GW at making rules, im even after just 8m boycotting gw products.
Not pricing best and wprst weapon loadouts differently is terrible design.
They can have a casuals quickbattle option where squads cost 1-5 skulls and you decide how many skulls you play this time. For competitive this is bad design.
Why pay for the army rules? Infinity, heavy gear, bolt action, batman and more offer the rules via an app for free.
atm i'm not really enjoying 40k.
they have made a lot of stupid changes like the movement changes they implemented now with the Pivot thing, it makes the game slower and some models are punished by it and others gain movement.
also a lot of quick rules changes because of bad rules writing when they first come out, either them being to strong, bad wording or not working.
we are starting to feel the early codex syndrome on the earlier edition codex, despite GW trying to tone down their codex.
codex that come out are either really strong or really weak, feels like they have not been playtested or written by people who don't know/care about the faction they write rules about.
I cannot afford buying the new rulebook, 5 codices and all new models because they shelved my old ones every year. And this actively keeps me out from playing competitive warhammer.
I do love 10th edition. There is still so much creativity and list building compared to killteam. People are overreacting big time “oh no I can’t take a 9 man squad” slows the game down.
They do need to bring back army formations back. Taking 10 tanks and no battle line is a literally joke.
Played with the Tyranid’s combat patrol over the last weekend and had a lot of fun!
The only thing I suggest is to make sure your opponent does not use the grey knight combat patrol. The guy never had a chance.
yes Combat Patrol is really unbalanced, some are much stronger then others.
Sur, unbalanced and borring. 😅
It's amazing that combat patrols are so vital to the survival of the brand and they abandoned it completely. The whole point was they can be balanced at the datasheet level, but combat patrol datasheets are no different from the real game. They maybe have an ability or two removed that's it. I get that they each army is getting their combat patrol replaced with their codex, but it's been almost 2 years some of these armies are waiting to get a reworked patrol. Sometimes the new one is worse than the old one.
Fuck paying for rules lol. When i buy a d&d rulebook it's one and done and i get all the content in it. Codex are a pricier outdated scam
I can understand why someone might enjoy 10th edition, but IMHO this edition is extremely boring and feels like GW is aggressively milking the fans as hard as they can. FOMO and requiring both a subscription AND a codex purchase in order to use their barebones army building app are two examples off the top of the dome.
You either play Tournament style or not. If you don't... the only thing that matters, are the things both... no... all players involved agree on.
3v1 ? Go for it.
Using your friends Trainset as Terrain ? Awesome.
Give the Pistols Keyword to every Weapon ? Have Fun !
If you play casual and are bored... I am sorry, but that is your fault for not being creative enough, not GWs
Nice video.
That being said, Gw does not listen to opinions at all.
There is not a lot of logic to it- but what it comes down to is selling as many models as possible in as short of a time period.
Balance exists only so people are not as disappointed so they would stop playing.
Imbalance exists to sell new models with new rules.
I've played since 3rd ed.
great video, I have been saying the same thing for weeks now. Will share this in my local community, hopefully we switch to crusade soon 😬
The good:
-10th still feels like 40k. It's not exactly the same game as it was when I got into it in 2019, but it's still my favorite tabletop game.
-I, controversially, sort of like rolling psychic powers into either passive buffs or a weapons profile. Necrons, Custodes, Admech, Tau, Drukhari, and others I'm sure, never interacted with the psychic phase.
-My favorite character, Abaddon, is no longer functionally indestructible for a good chunk of the game. I believe in 9th he had boxnaught toughness, a ludicrous defensive profile (damage reduction from mark of Tzeentch/Nurgle, 4++ invul, his in-game plot armor that kept him from taking more rhan 3 wounds per phase )and weapons that would melt anything they touched. He was a fun piece in 9th, but toning him down was probably a wise choice.
-Bringing back USRs make the game more accessible. I'm glad not every weapon in 10th has its own block of rules text.
-The lack of a force org chart means you can theoretically depict more different types of military forces. A true, unending tyranid swarm? You got it, boss. Mechanized guard infantry? Super playable rn.
The bad:
-Shooting heavy editions are less fun than melee heavy editions. I wanna roll a giant bucket of dice at someone.
-Some armies have spammable anti-tank weapons, other armies have no anti-tank weapons. I can run a reasonable Aeldari list with six brightlances, wraithguard armed with wraithcannons, a fire prism. Unless you wanna soup in a Knight, sisters have next to nothing that can consistently get wounds on armored vehicles.
-The melta rule for the past three editions has been boring. Have it keep the damage the same but have a better chance to wound, like how it worked in 3rd-7th.
-The more esoteric weapons in 3rd-7th had USRs to represent their weird effects (deflagrate for volkite, the graviton keyword, sunder, rending). That 10th lacks these makes the game decidedly less flavorful.
-I miss bolter discipline and combat doctrines
-I also miss burning command points to make unique characters. It really encouraged me to get creative with my Black Legion army. I gave my model that's meant to be Iskandar Khayon lord of the ezekarion and two relics. I just really liked doing that.
-It might have been a bad idea to make weapon upgrades free, it was pretty neat when the weapons in 9th all had point costs ending in 5 or 0.
-Combi-weapons.
-Subfaction/detachment based restrictions on list composition generally seem to work better than "go buck wild and vaguely run this type of unit". If you wanted to play a certain army, you really had to commit.
-Codices are still too long and expensive.
The ugly:
-Less points dense armies means more time spent painting and assembling and it makes armies cost more.
-Someone's gonna go an entire edition without actual stratagems and army rules only for the next edition to not be backwards compatible with this one.
-I heard the sound of millions of plastic arms being snapped off of torsos the moment the indexes started to drop.
-Sisters players in particular got shafted. They have fewer detachments than any other army right now, and one of them is an archetype that no one asked for.
-Thousands of Chaos Cultists are gonna sit on a shelf for a while, possibly forever.
-I'd probably hate the changes to the psychic phase more if I played Thousand Sons or Grey Knights.
I am a white scar player. I can't imagine a realistic situation where GW makes fun for me. They would have to release a ton of models and rules, which they won't do and revert the whole "if you don't play ultramarines, codex sm will suck for your sm" . And l REALLY didn't like how 3500pts of my army turned in to 0pts of matched play legal models.
Fuck off ultramarines, why this hate?! Blame gw dude, for ultramarines its also not very nice, were at the bottom with you all! Space wolves were using white scars detachment, not ultramarines
Ive played since rogue trader. 5th was great as was 6th 7 and 8 were dumpster fires and 9th was was too "straty". 10th has been a breath of fresh air and im enjoyjng it more than any other edition. People alas just want to complain, 10th floats my boat without oodles of mental load. Also if i hear one more person say "mah first born sphasss mahrines..primaris are dumb" ill scream too.
The wargear argument is immaterial. Personally i hated naked units to save points, it made units look stupid. At least in its current iterations you still have an optimal load out just like you always did, but without the annoyance of having to snap your weapons off after a balance update, making your models look shite
I miss paying per model. 4th edition was great
5th ed CSM player here, losing the customization that units have had for more than a decade was like letting shot in the back of the head.
Loadouts being limited to whatever GW decided to throw in the box was an incredibly stupid move and I mostly stick to Horus Heresy for the fine tuning army building to express what I like to throw down against my buddies.
Every edition/systems has its ups and downs but trying to get into 10th just sucks the creative inspiration out of move
Honestly i wish we could all go back to 3rd edition.
While the balance and ease of access has been great for my community, I think they lost TOO much of the fluff in 10th ed. Obviously it was super imbalanced at first, but after the fixes this games has been INSANELY balanced( which is a good thing) but man i just miss relics + warlord traits, just bring back all those cool options we had in 9th and I think it would fix a lot of the lack of fluff
Amazing video! Right on point for everything you said. Let share this video with GW.
Set unit costing makes a lot of sense though, in previous editions you could have unit's that weren't equipped to deal with anything outside of what their standard weapons could handle, forcing a player to have to take good weapons does make sense, in a real battle something like a missile launcher, flamer and specialised close combat weapons in each unit is a necessity. Players beings able to completely avoid that to make an objective minding unit really isn't in the spirit of war and nor is it realistic, that said, making the jumbo cannon and the head smasher (I know they aren't called that!) as always being the only choices due to points efficiency also seems wrong, so yes FORCE players to have to take upgrades but cost them appropriately so that we can also see those other options.
It would be great if they could balance the weapon options more fairly so there is a decision to make.
For me trying to learn , the game feels like there is just so much overwhelming things. The over abundant amount of "extra" rules" or "bonus" things to add more rules into characters etc.. most of the time I cannot remember half the things my guys do and the game feels less fun because Im like "Oh I could have done that, or I could have done this" but I forgot to. Just setting up the game is a massive learning experience not to mention trying to understand and use all these apps. Im not going to say it's all on GW end , it's def partly my fault I guess but being new it's like where do I look to know how to even setup proper ? Where do I go to learn how to setup an army list that is decent but fun? When people create TH-cam videos talking lists, most speak about it like everyone is understanding EVERYTHING and it's not much help it's just a front load of information that makes no sense. I love playing when I can but it's so overwhelming I just wish I understood more.
Play at 1500 pts points instead of 2000 pts helps a lot
As 4th edition when I started ,
The "crying" from professional players & them getting the Amazon "cave in" is getting old
Tournament has in 10th dominates everything . It has become "Call of Duty" on table top .
L shape ruins have hurt Tournament play , because it the main terrain
"Nerfing" units with no stat checks within a week , instead of letting the meta figure it out
Letting 1 faction "rule" for 1st 8 months with weak "Nerfs"
Make the rules free and make the codexes art, lore and maybe sample rules. The rules are gonna change anyway. They can still release the models at the same time as the codexes to get a huge wave of sales but if the rules are available to everyone it would make playing easier.
Important Vid!
GW rolls for PERILS OF THE WHHHAAAARRP!
The current problem with points isn't that they're the same cost it's, ones clearly better.
They should be balanced, so it's a choice.. do i pick an inaccurate kill weapon or a reliable low damage weapon, or this weapon is anti infantry vs. that one that is anti tank.
Otherwise I agree, there is a ton of options to play and boarding actions is amazing! Look into white dwarf 49x issues for some fun missions. I recommend the ones with past and present
This is why i mainly only collect and not play because i feel conned when i buy the books only for them to be outdated within a week.
My winged hive tyrant rolled very well during all yhe practice matches and then i got to the tournament. One game I rolled 1 three times taking way too many mortal wounds.
if they go back to loadouts changing the points there is going to be lots of feels bad
We always play all first floor ruins are line of sight blocking even if it has windows
Played like this for the first time this weekend gone with my votann v WE. I did ok but felt like that rule favours fast moving mellee armies that can bounce up the board through terrain. You can't shoot them and to go in the ruin is suicide. Ruins should not be a magic box of total protection. I feel like. 50/50 split is better
Loadouts aren't fixed enough for my taste.
10 Models Death Company with Jumppacks and 5 different combinations of Weapons.
Stuff like that only slows down the game
Good video! New recruit is 100000 times better than battlescribe, very recommended!
Make books for the narrative, the artwork, hobbystuff and all rules free online
40k is easier than ever to get into because all the fat has been cut from it. Unfortunately, like with food, that fat has all the flavor. It is more flexible in other ways, specifically the detachments not locking you to a color scheme. It is easy to throw a game together without having the rules fresh. 40k is middle of the road for me right now, not awful but not memorable either. What I don't like about 40k, Heresy provides with abundance. So I find it tough to complain too much since my desires are still being met across the two systems.
I’m here because of SM2. Bought an introduction model set for my son and I to see how he would like it. Had a lot of fun. I was thinking about getting the Ultimate Starter set for him and I to play with.
But after reading a lot of the comments I am feeling a bit discouraged as I really like this universe and had high hopes for entering in it.
But I don’t want to cough up a good amount of money if the game is boring/not fun.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Ignore what Tournament GamesWorkshop is doing. Buy the set. Play them at with home rules in your house. Using codex as baseline for units. Have fun with the world. Don't narrow yourself with what the company wants
Ya I guess from a complete novice perspective I get worried reading a lot of the veteran players comments and feel like I wouldn’t even know where to start as to what would be a good investment to have fun with.
I wouldn’t mind buying the set not a big deal, it’s just if it is boring to play.
I would rather hear from people here than at the GW store. Not sure what to believe.
It’s frustrating because this universe is right up my alley and was having some high hopes.
My son and I really enjoyed putting the models together and getting them painted. And I was about to go on that ultimate starter set but now I am not so sure?
The best thing you can do is just ignore all the whiney bs and play combat patrol with your son and ignore all the old timey back in my day kind of talk
I'd feel things out with a coffee table, a single character, battleline and monster/walker unit for both you and your son, with household items as terrain, and avoid reddit like it's been shown to cause rapid-onset metastatic brain cancer.
Ya I think I will go with the ultimate starter set then. At the very least we will enjoy putting the models together and painting them which will be worth the money just for the memory alone.
Arks of omen was the peak balance between tournament play and fun narrative, 10th is pure boring tournament games, customization has gone down the drain and characters are so boring. Free wargear means there is zero point in not taking same loadoats everywhere. 10th is just so boring and soulless.
The game , if you happen to play in a place that prefares matched play , is hard to pick up and the rotation of armies/builds going from good&fun to trash puts you on a quarterly schedul. It is not an all army thing (sob&necron have been fun for more then 3 months), but it is true for a lot of armies. Especialy marine ones. At the same time army choices in some cases punish you brutaly. Want play big chaos knight, castellan robots focused admecha , WS/IF/RG ? I don't know what your opponent have to do to make your games fun. Not do anything for a turn? And GW ain't fixing that. And the community will tell you to play the game in a proper way, with proper list/build. And the worse of it is that codex won't save you. They are often side grades , or worse nerfs , to a point where people would rather play the index.
I despise a different BS for every weapon ! ...... what a drag ..... I want to battle not do a math problem for every model 😂
Biggest issues? Codices soon illegal due to another version being released. How about eldar codex just before 11th? Purposeful shelving of minis. Many forgotten 7nchanged minis that have been bad for years. Purposeful broken relases balanced to sell. Fomo gw releases. Not allowed to play without only official stuff in most tournaments. And the codex itself is already out of date a week after releease yet they push me to buy then. Diagusting.
Gw is an abusive organisation that treats its users like gacha and gambling companies treats their users.
Use resin printers, downloaded rules and always shame all TOs that enforce only gw stuff. Distinct alternative models and printer/digital rules MUST be allowed or you are only ruining the hobby and gatekeeping it against those who cannot spend 1k per month to play tournaments. Never allow any new releaes until the FUXKING COMMUNITY HAS DECIDED HOW ITS TO BE BALANCED. Not the gw sales department. Shameful display by gw.
For the fixed load outs I think what they did with Tau is the way to go. Having certain load outs listed as a separate unit in the data sheet is perfect. Then the unit can be priced accordingly based off what loadout you want to take but still keeping list building fast and simple.
Points for weapon profiles is bad. every gun has a use into some type of meta. from a balancing stand point that would be a nightmare. It would be nice to have a larger mission rule set and more layouts.
I agree to an extent. Most weapons should be the same cost. But some units can carry weapons with significantly different firepower. It those more edge cases, I think things should be addressed.
Im in the minority. I only want physical versions. maybe in 8 years i wanna play an old edition with physical versions you can at least play rules as written. If nobody knew all the updates.
Rules should be free, lore should cost money
40k codices used to be a few pages of art and fluff text to get an overall feel for the vibe of a faction and the rest was rules. It'd make sense even to have "play" codices that are thin, soft cover and cheap, and "premium" codices that have all the glossy, full color artworks bound in a hard cover. 40k used to include basic unit rules in the back of the instructions booklets, maybe we should just go back to that.
Thanks you 👍
3 - more easy to balance the game, the 10th is a better version, update every month...
6 - to day it is possible to play and build lsi without codex, 100% digita, (list pdf) & free 😉. I play with a digital's tablet . My Codex is useless now 🤔
Plz averybody, stop to oppose compétitive & narrative game 😢
Play has you want, all is possible. Juste imagine your games 👍
PS : combat patrols is borring and not balance 😮💨
I Hope we had spearhead rules for 40k, this mode is very good.
The game needs to be more lethal the closer to the unit. The highest damage weapons should have very short threat ranges (like 6" movement no advance and charge melee units, or 12" melta with 6" movement). The longest threat range guns should be substantially less effective per turn. If you got a 14" move, that is added to the gun's range to find the threat range. It is the threat range that should determine how deadly the gun should be.
Or . . . no, this sounds terrible. Just cost things appropriately, so a long range and powerful weapon costs more.
@@samhunter1205 You could do it that way. But I would at least increase substantially the cost of weapons that both do damage and are long range. It should be more multiplicative, so long range + high damage is a lot more than either long range+low damage or low damage+long range.
@obsidi2 why do you think this is a specific problem? Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of issues with 40k rules, but I am not sure the blanket approach you are arguing for is necessarily the right way forward. Even if you have concerns about the balance between melee and ranged there are other ways to fix it.
@@samhunter1205 Because, currently, a lot of the time when you can be seen, you die the next turn. That means heavy use of obscuring terrain is necessary to ensure balance. If too little terrain is used, it substantially throws off the balance in the game. But if you lower substantially the range of "deadly" threats, and instead have more long range low damage and high damage short range, it both solves the problem of effectively mandating sufficient terrain (to have good balance), and increasing strategic play (because if your range is lower, then where you are on the board becomes more strategically important). While melee armies do have a lot of positional strategy, currently, their options are currently rather limited by the few locations where they can hide behind obscuring. Range options, however, positionally are only looking for long shooting lanes--the longer the better.
@obsidi2 using adequate terrain isn't necessarily a problem imo, it only really becomes so if the board is so obstructed that larger units can't navigate it. You can also address the situations you describe by having weapons be less deadly in general, or by tinkering with other rules, like the entirely stupid and immersion breaking rule that says if the pinky finger of one model is visible then the entire squad can be picked up by direct fire weapons that can't otherwise see them. That latter one is key imo - it is a big move away from older versions of 40k but it really skews things and makes much more dense terrain especially necessary.
Simplified points screwed the game up a LOT. Not sure it'll survive to 11th.
Games way to power gamey for me, all lists are half the points in characters and as much cheese you can fit in with the rest of the points and to be frank it was boring, so I stopped playing.
The simplicity ruined this edition. Old world it is.
Who can stop u from playing fun missions? Em...
I have been playing since 1987 or so when 40k was released. Not flexing but it is what it is. Here's the problem. It's a video game now. If I want to play a video game I'll go play Dawn of War. Then there's this "balance" bullshit. There is no such thing as a balanced game. Period. Even Chess, checkers and go aren't balanced. It's never going to happen. I'm playing a tabletop game. Not going to buy the new DLC. Sorry not sorry. The terrain thing is absolutely dumb. At this point all you're doing is seeing who can roll the better dice. I can do that here at my desk. There is never going to be a way to out math it either. In essence, all the fun is gone in favor of lame ass esports. Which isn't a tabletop game anymore. It's why players are leaving and older players aren't going to come back. I didn't spend 20+ years collecting an army just to see it wiped out because of "balance" which doesn't exist. There ya go.
Yeah but it's not fun to play dogshit army just because gw got 2 rules designing teams, one is retarded and other one gives amazing codex. I don't want to pay the same price as you and being stomped upon for years. In chess, there is like 5% winrate difference, in 40k currently like 25% between strong factions and codex marines or imperial agents.
40k struggles to strike the right balance between its fluff, where most forces generally aren't evenly matched, and its crunch, where it has to be a game and you have to make every army at least somewhat appealing to play.
Excess fluff leads to things like Rogue Trader's turn radius ratio rules, which often involved protractors and, notably, didn't even accurately depict how tanks move and turn. Too much crunch and we get 10th edition. 9th felt like it hit a sweet spot, even if the codices were ridiculous. There were enough fun, fluffy things in listbuilding that could influence rad kitbashes, and I remember people being generally positive about 9th.
@@emzetkin1100 I have to completely agree. I hated vehicles until like 4th ed. Still miss scatter dice though. I really dug 8th/9th. I don't mind the points stuff being static it's just 10th is flat out boring. It's also seeming to breed more douchebag players because they just don't know anything else. Whenevr I go against a "broken" army I like it because then I can use tactics and strategy. It makes a challenge and motivation to find a way to beat it. Now it's just a dice game. Meh. I have choices nowadays which is cool.
Or, OR!! play Grimdark Future from OnePageRules!
As someone completely new, who recently observed a tournament for the first time:
1. Moving a whole army in a single turn, while the opponent waits is merciless. Wouldn't it make more sense to activate a unit in alteration?
2. The amount of rules is a bit insane...
3. ...and they get rebalanced all the time. I'm having League of Legends vibes where when I was playing I needed to ALWAYS be up to date with rules.
4. Forcing people to buy paper rules is INSANE, bad way to go GW. Yeah, I know about Wahapedia now but it's just the company policy/approach that should change. The greed is insane.
I'd love to get into this hobby more, but the wall seems too tall at the moment.
No alternating activations is indeed crazy, a very bad system that unfortunately GW seem to have decided they will never, ever change. My play group have our version of the rules where we implemented alternating activations, but it does take a bit of work to make it function right.
Yes
My only complaint with 10th is the leader and point systems are too restrictive. Hitting 2k exactly and taking units you want is way too difficult.
40k is really bad but it could be so much worse, just look at how trash flashpoint and trench crusade are.
Nahh flashpoints rules are solid af
@@jacobgale4792 Not really tho, they are trash.
10 th worst edition ever!
Please do not bring back psi phase or weapon costs... The first would even more slow down the game and the second is a nightmare from balancing perspective.
Physical rules... GW knows that it is no longer 1987 right ?
The Rules are allready free off charge available online, so are the codexes.
Paying to much for the Models themself... fine...
But paying for a Book wih Rules, in 2024... what are they smocking ?
This channel seems a bit stale =P
As a necron paper fuck your psychic phase. Its just a magic shooting phase and needed its own subset of rules and confusion. Ya'll just shooting mind bullets :P
That’s not what it was though. Aeldari used it to cast spells that gave us extra movement, shrouded units from enemy sight lines, and gave things bonuses to the stats.
Space Marines might have just had “I cast gun”, but Aeldari lost a lot of our identity when the psychic phase was removed. They weren’t sure how to fix it, so just made the army really killy, which is why early 10th was so unbalanced.
@@ElGordoBandito i'm def not a jealous necron player who has no psyhic phase things... >.>
The main thing that annoy me: is the constant mayor rules changes and balance. Im ok with minor fixes but at this point I will wait until the end of 10th to have the final rules.
Make the rules free and make the codexes art, lore and maybe sample rules. The rules are gonna change anyway. They can still release the models at the same time as the codexes to get a huge wave of sales but if the rules are available to everyone it would make playing easier.