I was thinking the same thing. I think it’s just spamming MSU acolytes and jackal jail. Do absolutely no damage but try and score high for 5 turns with expendable chaff and move blocking. It’s a very boring way to play though.
@@DeathInTheSnowWe space marines should hope for the balance of the universe to fall into the hands of the eldar again, things were so good when they were at 70% win rate ruling the galaxy unhindered🧝🤳 oh oops
deathwatch being one of the worst managed factions by GW then being rolled into a new faction that became the new worst managed faction by GW is the most depressing thing
@@Raptor14v Yeah my 3k points of DW just sit in a case collecting dust. Of course with how GW has been treating them the last few years made me quit the game. Kinda hard to justify playing after spending over a thousand dollars on an army to just to have GW say, "naw they don't exist anymore" after constant nerfs while they ignored nerfing armies with winrates more than double of DW.
Deathwatch should have never been an army. They're such a cringy OC fanfic chapter who's powers are having everyone else's powers. Marines are already overrepresented and have too much variety, why do we need space marines with every single weapon profile in the entire game on one data sheet. Good riddance to bad trash I hope they outright delete the faction
I stopped collecting and playing because of this. I hope the rules this December get me back into it. If not then I will just sell my collections. GW make a game about an army they deleted.. well played
Salamanders player here - We have been punished so hard because of divergent chapters’ abusing our codex detachments. My original 10th edition army has gone up 240 points. :( Yes, I’m bitching. Lol. Flame storm aggressors should not be compared to bolt storm aggressors using fire discipline. We have no equivalent.
Well, we did have an equivalent. It was in our themed detachment, which was much less flexible than Gladius. Which got nerfed because of Black Templars. But specifically, it was our dev wounds strat. Which got nerfed because of GW’s wider change to Rites of Battle. Our dev wound strat was especially potent with Flamestorm Aggressors, due to their innate wound reroll. Which got nerfed because of the sins of Boltstorm Aggressors. It’s why I switched my homebrew chapter to using Space Wolves rules. I’m tired of GW consistently fucking over non-blue compliant chapters.
Honestly, this sounds like a completely self inflicted problem. You’re basically using 1/6th of the codex and relying on flamethrowers. If you want to play fully thematic Salamanders then you can. But don’t expect to be doing amazing with them. You can’t blame this on the supplements. The best of them is just barely above 50%, and half are down at the bottom as well. They were never dominating the meta at any point either. Even at the start of 10th Firestorm wasn’t anything to write home about. Blame GW for their horrible SM balance this edition.
That’s completely false. All of the divergent chapters have, at some point this edition, been one of the top winrate armies. Black Templars were the earliest, abusing the meltas they duct-taped to their tanks in Ironstorm and Gladius, and the Redeemer with a bunch of sword brethren and crusaders in Firestorm. That’s why the Redeemer got hit so hard. Space Wolves, specifically Wolf Jail, dominated for their fair share of time as well. Same with Dark Angels and Gladius, but they also had a stint earlier where they would abuse Ironstorm and their Ravenwing unit that gave stealth in an aura. Blood Angels have been doing well since their codex, but even before that after GW buffed their index detachment they were doing very well. We absolutely can blame this on the divergent chapters. All of them have been extremely strong at some point this edition, meanwhile I can count the amount of wins ALL of the non-Ultramarines chapters have on two hands. Maybe even one.
Gotta say, it's pretty cool to see that necrons WR has been holding consistent for so long after so many points changes, guess it just shows the variety in the codex.
I like resilience and options, I play stormcast (not 40k but AOS is pretty similar) and they’re basically the marines of AOS, lots of options and the favorite of GW, I have three different types of regular frontline infantry to choose from, so if one is bad I can just switch
GW has been good to Necrons for 10th except for a small bit before our codex we have been at least 48% for our winrate plus there was that 6 month period after our codex where we were #1. We have been consistently in the range of solid to Great. Plus there are a lot of newer ppl in the faction or people who got it as a secondary faction so the winrate among main necrons is higher.
idk if I agree. The faction on a whole might be mostly well balanced against others, but from what I surmise the internal balance of the army is baaaaaad. Units never seen, other units are autotakes (as in, take them or you'll lose), one detachment grossly over-represented... Crons still need a major shakeup of internal balance imo.
The 49% and 51% armies probably should've been bundled into mid tier. Pretty nice to see so many armies at the centre, hopefully the next dataslate helps out the stragglers.
Thing is if you use these numbers as reference you would be bufffing things like vanguard marines, grey knights, black templars. They do not need buffs, theyre strong enough!
They are a problem child like 9th ed Admech, both are very intricate armies with a massive skill ceiling. Casual or even low end competitive players find the army to be fine while the giganerds know every little trick and FaQ ruling to eek out wins. It doesn't help that because GSC is a very intricate army it's player pool is small making QA testing changer much harder.
Thousand Sons being at a cool 50% I think is deceptive, because they have basically *one* viable army list. Tabletop Tactics did a "game accurate" SM2-themed battle report with no Magnus and only three total character models, and the TSons got tabled on turn 3 without scoring a single victory point. The army can clearly still compete but it's extremely brittle. There's virtually no flexibility in list-building and most TSons competitive lists look pretty much identical.
World Eaters are in the same boat. Really wish GW would get off their lazy backsides and add some actual options to our rosters for once... we need more than 3-4 actual datasheets, instead of just shoving in more and more AoS crap and calling it a "model release"
I think that's true for a lot of armies. There's a distinct lack of _internal_ balance within each codex, meaning you frequently see the same detachments and units crop up throughout the edition. I think the rules are so simple and the profiles so limited in their design that you end up with very swingy results whenever something gets adjusted. There isn't enough granularity. It's like a ratchet with 4 teeth - you can only click between very large settings. For example, if wargear was still costed separately, you could adjust each point on that either in addition or instead of the model itself. Same goes for unit rules; you could have a cost scale for different loadouts. Right now though, things are simple to a flaw. There's little dexterity, or dare I say, fun, in this edition.
@@DeathInTheSnow Making wargear free was the worst decision they made in 10th, and the bar is pretty high on that for me since they also deleted my precious Psychic phase and turned Ahriman's Psychic attack power into a water gun. The only way to make that balanced is to make all possible wargear combinations equivalent in power, which is not only dumb, it often just doesn't work. Lots of squads which people had previously modeled to have a balanced mix of weapons would now be better off all having the same best weapon option because it's free, so why not? Even so, the armies with larger model ranges have a bit more wiggle room. TSons have the smallest unique range in the entire game, and it's made even smaller by the need to stack Cabal points.
Yeah as a ksons player we have one list and that's all you're ever allowed to run under any context You run Magnus and Ahriman so you can doombolt every turn, you run as many MVB's as you physically can because they're bonkers, you bring the rest of your lists in rubrics and leaders for the rubric squads, That's it You don't run Chaos spawn, No daemon allies BC GW would rather butcher the concept of daemon allies wholesale than balance the literal 2 problem daemons that exist. (Also nurglings are battleline so this didn't even do anything to make daemon allies less cheesy there's still nurglings in every single chaos list), you don't run tzaangor BC they're useless, you don't run cultists. We have like 6 data sheets and we're throwing if we use half of them
Nids are at a decent place, now if they can bring all the rest of the "feels bad to use" units up to snuff without causing a bad power spike then we be golden
Doing my periodic check-ins on the state of 40k, particularly Tyranids. Looked through all the units on Wahapedia and, frankly, some of the internal balance is unconscionable, which is most of why I left in the first place. Even if money were no object (and when is that _ever_ true?), it seems as if any list I intend to write is self-written, and not just because GW nuked list variance. I guess that's _one_ way to get people to stop running Dakkatyrants... I swear that all this borked internal power scaling has _got_ to be profit-driven. You can look at what few meaningful choices a Tyranid list can make nowadays and see precisely which Tyranid units crapped in GW's oatmeal versus which ones they're trying to subsidize. It's the humiliation of Carnifexes I feel particularly bad for. Once chitinous gods of destruction that could flip a Land Raider onto its back, they now die in a straight-up fight with a _Sentinel._ Want a "real" Carnifex? Buy a Screamer-Killer, the Primaris Marine of Carnifexes. Come to think of it, want a Hive Tyrant that doesn't die in one shot? Buy a Norn Emissary, the Primaris Marine of Hive Tyrants. And don't get me started on shifting Termagants to 28mm bases or whatever they're on now. At least they have the courtesy to unambiguously suck, with Gargoyles being the new hotness. Figures. At least it's not as bad as the supposedly ailing, crumbling, and critically failing Imperium that, despite allegedly being in the darkest minute of their darkest hour, half the galaxy is supposedly unreachable, and their beloved Emperor is functionally _stone cold dead,_ can never seem to stop miraculously tripping over new STCs for players to buy. Nice to see that GW's writing is as thematically dissonant as ever. At this point, they might as well give up on the whole "game" charade and just officially call it a roleplaying sandbox with no pretentions that competition tests anything beyond reading comprehension and statistics most people can do in their heads. Even the few 40k players I occasionally bump into loathe GW with every fiber of their being and instead 3D print, pirate, house rule, and "don't be a jerk" away 40k's many problems. 40k's seeming newfound balance across most of their armies is a complete mirage. Everybody who gave a crap left for greener pastures years ago. Do you really think Tyranids would be the third most played tournament army if not for _Space Marine 2?_ That game where the lowly Xenos jobbers were just a smokescreen for the _real_ fight against Chaos? _Again?_ Congratulations, Tyranid players! You have achieved the coveted status of universal target practice. The Orks tip their hat to you.
As much as I want to play my Deathshrouds, 18 DS lists are the only reason why the Death Guard win rate is so high. If they get nerfed, maybe the rest of the army will finally get adjusted to the point where it's more competitive.
@robertcusick9931 I actually think our army was great before the latest. Mortarian points drop was warranted; I don't like how other primarchs are soooo powerful. Relying on knights for 12 S was what was lame.
Honestly I think the faction is fine the way it is right now, since Mortarion is basically a distraction carnifex we need a hard hitting unit that isn't plague marines. Also I love the blightlords but they neeed an ablilty buff not points drop
Doesn’t seem too bad. Regular Space Marines being low probably rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but it reminds me of the Shoto problem in Street Fighter where if Ken and Akuma have any advantages over Ryu, the try hard players that care about their win rate are going to dump Ryu. Or near the end of Street Fighter 5’s life where Luke came out and invalidated every other Shoto. It doesn’t matter if they’re not the worst character in the game if another character is just the same thing but better.
I say give Terminator’s storm bolters S5 AP-1 and the pistol keyword. Do I think that would fix Space Marines? No, but I also would like Terminators to not suck so much.
@rickkcir2151 That's an amazing idea, especially for shittiest codex marines terminators who have the same point price as Chaos or DA ones but are much weaker by weapons and also rules.
Pistol keyword isn't a good idea really. You would be able to shoot all the stormbolters and the special weapon due to how pistol rules work. Give terminators ability that say they can shoot in combat with stormbolters is a better idea
Hearing that the Tau are the 4th most popular faction to run out of 26 makes my belief that the Tau deserve more media from their perspective even more vindicated. I need Fire warrior to get a sequel glow-up the same way Space marine did.
@ them going to 110 feels strange. Could see them going to 115 and typhus up to 90 maybe. This being a balance dataslate where they fix rules I hope they change a bunch of our characters to make them functional/better
Yeahhh, I feel like DG is being propped up by deathshround slant lists. I love my deathshrounds as much as any stinker but 18 of em? id like to use the rest of my army lol. Hopefully in the upcoming dataslate typhus and shrouds get bumped up with blightlords and the lacking leaders getting point drops.
@Teh_Duck blightlords and the leaders can’t really get fixed by points. Blightlords are already the cheapest termies by PPM. They just do zero damage and have a lackluster ability. Same with the leaders
@@Teh_Duck the bad leaders need actual reworks to their datasheet, not point drops. unless the plague surgeon and noxious blightbringer go down to something obscenely low like 20 points, they'll never be able to compete with how good the blightspawn and the putrifier are in their current state.
Playing against my friend with Genestealers has been brutal for me in games when my dice aren't hot (Im also playing a UM army so that doesn't help either XD). It'll be a slog to kill a unit of aberants or like a 20-man of neophytes, just for them to pop back up in my face the next turn. Some games feel like I've fought a 2k point army with just my 1k points and get totally overrun by turn 4 or 5.
My experience with Genestealers is relatively low, just a single 500 point game. Pretty fun but like I demolished him and we were cool about it. I just think that I got lucky, good luck with your mate though.
Hahahahaha, you obviously haven't been paying attention. GW has been actively trying to kill off Deathwatch as a faction for YEARS now. Ever since 8th every time it looks like Deathwatch might climb above garbage tier they come in and nerf them back into the ground. Look at the launch of 10th edition if you don't believe me. For almost a whole week Deathwatch had a particular combination that could compete with top tier armies by being able to reliably wipe a single unit per turn and GW immediately nerfed it, not just killing the particular interaction but additionally nerfing other rules for them, all the while ignoring Eldar winrates that were well over 70% for several months.
@@logansmall5148and then they proceeded to literally just try to murder the faction by turning them into imperial agents allies… I don’t play deathwatch or any space marines at all for that matter but it baffles me that GW is disregarding such a cool faction and all the players who love that faction…
in my necrons in awakened dynasty one of my favorite go to non c'tan options is skorpekh lord with enaegic dermal bond for 4+ fnp on top with 4+ invul save makes him tanky and with him being an infantry charecter makes it so you can use a strat to stand him back up after he dies once
47:08 regarding the Adeptus Mechanicus, fight units are overlooked. I must say that Electropriest units are more tanky now and usable on par with Battleline units (when leaded by a dominus for the 4+FNP). Overall this army has 2 main issue 1/ The steep learning curve 2/ the price of the mini ( and a bonus issue, the difficult painting process 😅. Those who know, know 😅😅😅).
Agreed. Really I do not understand how they can do so good, so many units. I used them in my last tournament but I was always running out of time, and I’m quite a veteran with them…
I think one way to help Space Marines out would be each detachment having one non battleline unit become battleline. Infurnus for Firestorm, Eliminators for Vanguard, Outriders for Stormlance, etc
I don't hate the idea for flavour, might take more than just adding the Battleline tag tho. Perhaps something Additionally like BA adding strength to thematic units. Some detachments maybe harder than others to assign units, specifically Gladius... maybe it can glow up the characters units... It's more about adaptive leadership anyway.
'Perhaps overdid it with the Black Templar nerfs'. Wow, you think so? As soon as they have their winrate back up it will be right back to 'bolt on multi-melta' and 'sword brethren + insert character kill everything' videos complaining about how oppressive they are.
I like how the Templars keep eating points hike after points hike for playing to their strengths. Granted, old Ironstorm's its own can of worms, but the fact is that BT pay extra for the multi-melta as a chapter-specific deal. What's hilarious is punishing them for leaning on the crusader blobs and Sword Brethren GW gave them. It's fluffy and it works. Not great when the rationale is trying to force a prescribed general playstyle while also pushing to let factions have unique rules.
GK exodus is probably down to copy and paste of the army rule into other armies detachments. First it was necrons, now blood angels both armies have much more play and are just better than GK on the units and speacial rules front. Also playing GK as a kitting, non interactive force is just boring and not fun for either person in a game, it will get boring and exhausting for most so inevitibly they will go elsewhere. As somone thats played since 7th its been there most un-interesting iteration and its why I'm on hiatus from 10th until the codex comes around.
Im a new player to 40K and have only played 5 matches so far, with Grey Knights. I really enjoy the Grey knights playstyle. With Kaldor I usually get to be the first person going aggro. With Termies+ Rapid Ingress I'm usually going relatively aggro aswell. I see it more as a guerilla style army. I try to outnumber my opponents where their "weaker" units are, usually the secondary scoring units. I know I can't hang vs their "big stuff" so I try to kill the other stuff. Have to say however...my games have so far allways been very close. It's hard imagining I would ever table an opponent. PS: I currently have only played 1000pts so that probably changes the perspective a lot.
@ThePaintedHope the fact that you are new to GK actually says a lot. Anybody who has played them pre 10th knows that they have lost their identity as a psychic army.
I’m sure this could age terribly by the end of 10th but it’s nice that Tau hasn’t been public enemy #1 at any point despite the occasional moments of people over-hyping them.
Not surprised GSC have such a good winrate, they're basically guard but better in every way. Look at the Goliath rockgrinder vs a russ for a nice single unit example, very slightly less durable, much better shooting than any russ, and for some inexplicable reason actually dangerous in close combat and punishes people for falling back out of combat. And 2/3 the price to boot. I wish brood brothers could take flyers, as it'd end up being the best way to do aircav guard then. Though maybe the codex will change that.
The number 1 taken army is 7% (necrons) and number 3 taken army is 6% (tyranids) Thats actually really nice to see that there is a alrge spread of armies
I played some genestealers over the weekend. He failed all but one cult ambush roll on a 10 man squad of aberrants that took me 2 turns to kill. I still lost by 30 points. Didn't help much that my space marines couldn't hit anything.
grey knight units were always decent. but there are many units that can and do do it better or have rules that are always on. instead of once per game, or onley for charges.
For Imperial Agents I feel like if you just gave them an actual army rule that is pretty decent you would see a good increase in win percentage points.
Imperial agents struggling isn't a massive surprise to me, kinda feels like 2/3/4 armies thrown together. If there was more deathwatch units, some spicier inquisitor stuff and one or two extra sisters/grey knights units just for variety sake it might be different
Grey knights went down after they nerfed libbies etc again. Just has been a steady decrease for us after libbies and dreads knigjts kept getting touched
When you spend $150 on a fourth of an army that’s unpainted and unassembled you do have a right to be a little pissy about sudden balance changes. Especially in regard to how long they can take to make
Mechanicus still has the same problem it has had since the beginning of the edition. You are almost forced to take the conqueror imperative to have real fp (even more so in a meta where everyone has armor of contempt) because otherwise your weapons do not do damage. But if you do that you shoot on 4+, if your opponent has stealth or whatever you are already on 5+. They need to go back to BS 3+ to be a solid army.
When we approached the Agents book and it came out you'd be able to make a list using Imperial Navy troops I was like 'hey this is cool and quirky, I do like the void armor dudes so maybe I'll finally actually get back into army collecting'. And then they manifestly sucked and weren't really a functional army after all. Very feelsbad.
It's wild that the Lion and Guilliman are only 25pts more than a walking hive tyrant with the standard enhancement choice of adaptive biology. What the hell *IS* this edition lol
I just started collecting Imperial Agents. I like their voidfarer models. Trying to make a 1k points rogue trader's army. Shame the models are so damn hard to get =( Managed to get a Boarding patrol box from ebay though
Inner balance not external balance wise - I don't get Chaos Knights having ws/bs 2+ small knights for super cheap if GW wants people to run normal knights at all.
Interesting that World Eaters have low win rates at tournaments because they typically absolutely dominate in casual games. Fluffy lists just can’t deal with them. Unless you’re taking something to block the scout move and have a lot of screening and strong shooting, you are going to get slapped.
WE WR solely depends on whether or not the current meta cares about the chainfists or not. Resistance to AP, some -1s in melee? You win. The current meta just really bennefits them.
I think less adept players aren't as tactical, so they don't know how to shut down the world Eaters gimmick. I love my angry boys, but they're a one trick pony.
Another kicker for why more casual WE players do well is how small the range is. With less datasheets, players who get a generic all around 2k army will not be too far off a viable list. The only room for fluff in WE is CSM painted red which sucks when they are expected to get a second wave this edition, so why buy the unthemed kits when something cooler might drop with the codex?
The Black Templar nerfs were unneeded. The 20 man primaris crusader squads were cheesy but didn't need that high of a point nerf. That was ridiculous. Ditto for the point increases on Hellbrecht and Grimaldus, unneeded. I got rid of all of my 40 collections except my Black Templars. My ride or die faction.
I wonder if DG will get a nerf in the next balance slate 🤔 I think typhus needs one because he’s kinda too cheap for what he can do but maybe making him 100 pts total. Also blight lords could use a point decrease while each shroud an increase I think I think that would bring DG maybe down by 1% but the army seems like it’s in a good spot so I’m a happy nurgling
Great analysis. I am not sure why GW is afraid to give my Tyranids a reliable anti-tank unit or two, but this is getting aggravating. I'm glad demons are doing so well. I need to invest in other gods. My army is 80% Slaanesh and I need to get it over the hump. Lol
Shocking to me (daemons player) that daemons are this high-might be my local meta (lots of very elite armies impossible to kill off objectives that high-mobility armies with leadership shenanigans don’t play well into), or maybe a skill issue on my end (more likely lol)
Just played Gene stealers today, snd god damn it was miserable. I brought 1850 poonts but he might as well have had like 2600-2750 i took out so much of his stuff first round snd by his turn it was all back and then i got charged and most of the stuff i managed to kill while pinned down kept coming back till like roudn 4 after i kill abour a 3 of his remaining bois with an insane deadly demise but hs still won on points by alot
Gsc are honestly an anomaly statistically. Gsc hasn’t gotten better as an army that much, the 3 people who make it work at the top tables are getting more efficient at it especially with the points drops
If I interpret the thumbnail correctly, this version of the game is extremely balanced compared to others. Only imperial agents (which are 66% space marines), 3 space Marine factions and Grey knights are too weak and only GS are (way) too strong. While I don't like balancing issues and am a marine player, I think just looking at this very small bit of data, that is pretty good balancing.
GSC is just in a really awkward spot right now too. It isn't just the win rate, but they way they play. I would hazard a guess that outside competitive they are actually not doing so hot. The way they win in counter to how the average person chooses to play a casual game.
23:00 I don't think GW have failed to make the big knights the focus because chaos knights are the armiger knights. Just as Imperial knights are the questoris knights. Want to play oops all armigers? CKs. Want to have a 3-5 list? Play imperial knights.
I find it funny that you call the Toxicrene underpowered. People are sleeping on it! It can typically hit 2-3 units each turn with its cloud for an average of 4-5 mortals. Have them walk in pair and they kill lone ops and charaters super easily.
You always Analyse army's by win´s and how the army list are. How about a deep look at SM army's or army's in general that loose GT´s and what there list did look like. In general i am interested to see what loosing army's look like and why did they do it? What have you taken and was it a bad choice or bad dice or simply the whole codex being trash. Or where you set up to loose by a team.
Poor GK... I wish they'd bring back stinkin' psychic phase. 10th edition came with many good changes but I think it was a big mistake to get rid of the psychic phase. Once something goes away I think its harder to bring it back. GK could answer many threats with psychic powers back in 9th edition. Their mortal wounds could crack even the hardest armor.
auspex GW tends to fudge win rates they do this all the time, this is actually the true win rate, for grey knights, they are not a good army design, people were relying on hiding and scoring to win with them instead of taking the fight to the enemy and many armies have the same rules but are not psycic, and thier better versions. so overall the army needed 4 detachments or a codex much sooner then the end of the edition. early on gw ignored many losses, and onley counted the majority of the wins, to make them look good. this is why they have had a consistent 3percent play rate even when they had a higher win rate the players knew the army was bad even if people around them were convinced they were good the play rate for tourneys never got higher. so they chose other better more fun playable armies.
What if we adjust renegade raiders rules down and adjust vanilla datasheet power and points for csm UP. I don't want to run the generic boring good slop detachment please.
Yeah they absolutely nerfed us black templars into the ground for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Games workshop was like "oh they are enjoying themselves.... Let's put a end to that"
And yet for all the bad performance of the Space Marine lists, Calgar and his boys are at the top of tournaments all the time: It's just that there are a million ways to build a list, and most units just aren't very good. As for death guard's results, they are more about the meta than about pure army strength. The things that they are bad against got nerfed to next week, and there's many melee armies that are good in general, but are weak against every single one of the death guard infantry's strengths. The toughness loss, the bonus they get to choose, Mortarion's aura, -1 damage, figths first.... and the counterplay is to just run a different army: Tsons beat them pretty easily.
The idea for all these marines units opening up many ways to build a list is great but clashes with how the game is centered around competitive play. Ultramarines are the most standout in the codex, sure, but I guess tough luck for the rest of us who don't wanna play Ultramarines or Gladius.
I actually think space Marines interiors are in a fantastic place it's just a lot of people who are new getting into the tournament scenes use those two because those are the latest armies in the beginning sense for Warhammer 40K. If we didn't have any newbies playing I think the win rates would be much higher amongst the two
Event wins as a stat tends to reflect more on the players and doesn’t make for a great representation of army power. X-1 or better placements tends to show a better view of how capable an army is of taking down a big event.
@ win percentage isn’t great either. It’s far too influenced by popularity which is why Space Marines always place low but are also regularly oppressive. What’s winning is more useful to look at overall, but if you stop at gold medals you throw away far too many successful players, particularly if you’re excluding undefeated that lost to tiebreakers.
@@niallskinner7800they’re very popular with new players who are also more likely to play them over some of the more competitive variants. That said, my greater issue is going with tournament wins as a stat instead of X-1. Pretty much anyone with a single loss was fully capable of winning the thing. Focusing on the faction of the single player that did is putting too much focus on the faction and taking way too much away from the player who made it happen.
@@ryanwhaley5041 People keep saying this, but it simply isn't true. I go to RTTs with 36+ people very regularly, and I am consistantly the only player with Codex Marines. I do relatively well, but I'm playing Ultramarines Vanguard with Uriel Ventris and Devastator Centurions, which is currently the only way to make SM even remotely viable, and will 100% be getting nerfed in December. The idea that SM are doing badly because newbies are taking them to tournaments is a complete myth.
points cuts help but are not a buff, most of the buffs they did get were base rules that didnt even count part of the edition as tourney organizers ruled against thier own rules, like the grandmaster ability. all it was was leveling of basic stuff they already had, i guess you could call a slight ap increase a buff for the dreadnight but i dont count it as its what it already should have been from last ed. so no they havent recieved true buffs. they need new rules for real buffs. Grey knights
At GW headquarters: “ok gang, deathwatch is the least played, let’s combo into the imperial agents and really jazz things up, make this a popular faction!” Proceeds to become less played then the old DW…
GSC players at the top of the pack- “I still don’t know how we got here”
A plan generations of dataslate sin the making!
Totally agree. I wish my GSC won this much!
I was thinking the same thing. I think it’s just spamming MSU acolytes and jackal jail. Do absolutely no damage but try and score high for 5 turns with expendable chaff and move blocking. It’s a very boring way to play though.
🤣🤣
Just three months or so ago, they were considered unplayable. Competitive Warhammer 40K is a wild ride.
High and low win rates are crazy when almost all the armys are near 50%. That’s insanely good balancing for a game of this scale
And it's duller than dishwater as a result.
@@DeathInTheSnowI’ve had some pretty fun and crazy games. Plus, I personally would happily take the improved balance over almost everything from 9th.
@@DeathInTheSnowWe space marines should hope for the balance of the universe to fall into the hands of the eldar again, things were so good when they were at 70% win rate ruling the galaxy unhindered🧝🤳 oh oops
@@DeathInTheSnow guarantee elsewhere you've complained that the game isn't balanced 😂
@@DeathInTheSnow Care to explain how it makes the game dull?
Incredible that the dedication to the PowerPoint format extends to even the ad spots.
It's the consistency that makes us love ol' Auspex. Reliable.
As an Imperial Guard player, I never thought we’d get here either
I play GSC. I'm just as confused as you are.
Guard have been topping events for like 8 months solid, what you on about?
deathwatch being one of the worst managed factions by GW then being rolled into a new faction that became the new worst managed faction by GW is the most depressing thing
@@Raptor14v Yeah my 3k points of DW just sit in a case collecting dust. Of course with how GW has been treating them the last few years made me quit the game. Kinda hard to justify playing after spending over a thousand dollars on an army to just to have GW say, "naw they don't exist anymore" after constant nerfs while they ignored nerfing armies with winrates more than double of DW.
Deathwatch should have never been an army.
They're such a cringy OC fanfic chapter who's powers are having everyone else's powers.
Marines are already overrepresented and have too much variety, why do we need space marines with every single weapon profile in the entire game on one data sheet. Good riddance to bad trash I hope they outright delete the faction
@@teejay1646Hush little boy! Stop crying and tell me where these bad, bad Deathwatch touched you.
I stopped collecting and playing because of this. I hope the rules this December get me back into it. If not then I will just sell my collections. GW make a game about an army they deleted.. well played
@@teejay1646 Found the xeno
Salamanders player here - We have been punished so hard because of divergent chapters’ abusing our codex detachments. My original 10th edition army has gone up 240 points. :(
Yes, I’m bitching. Lol. Flame storm aggressors should not be compared to bolt storm aggressors using fire discipline. We have no equivalent.
Well, we did have an equivalent.
It was in our themed detachment, which was much less flexible than Gladius.
Which got nerfed because of Black Templars.
But specifically, it was our dev wounds strat.
Which got nerfed because of GW’s wider change to Rites of Battle.
Our dev wound strat was especially potent with Flamestorm Aggressors, due to their innate wound reroll.
Which got nerfed because of the sins of Boltstorm Aggressors.
It’s why I switched my homebrew chapter to using Space Wolves rules. I’m tired of GW consistently fucking over non-blue compliant chapters.
@ Yeah. It’s exhausting. 😞
Honestly, this sounds like a completely self inflicted problem. You’re basically using 1/6th of the codex and relying on flamethrowers. If you want to play fully thematic Salamanders then you can. But don’t expect to be doing amazing with them.
You can’t blame this on the supplements. The best of them is just barely above 50%, and half are down at the bottom as well. They were never dominating the meta at any point either. Even at the start of 10th Firestorm wasn’t anything to write home about.
Blame GW for their horrible SM balance this edition.
I just play Blood Ravens with my friends and basically all my decent units cost so much more than their similarly decent units.
That’s completely false. All of the divergent chapters have, at some point this edition, been one of the top winrate armies.
Black Templars were the earliest, abusing the meltas they duct-taped to their tanks in Ironstorm and Gladius, and the Redeemer with a bunch of sword brethren and crusaders in Firestorm. That’s why the Redeemer got hit so hard. Space Wolves, specifically Wolf Jail, dominated for their fair share of time as well. Same with Dark Angels and Gladius, but they also had a stint earlier where they would abuse Ironstorm and their Ravenwing unit that gave stealth in an aura. Blood Angels have been doing well since their codex, but even before that after GW buffed their index detachment they were doing very well.
We absolutely can blame this on the divergent chapters. All of them have been extremely strong at some point this edition, meanwhile I can count the amount of wins ALL of the non-Ultramarines chapters have on two hands. Maybe even one.
Gotta say, it's pretty cool to see that necrons WR has been holding consistent for so long after so many points changes, guess it just shows the variety in the codex.
I like resilience and options, I play stormcast (not 40k but AOS is pretty similar) and they’re basically the marines of AOS, lots of options and the favorite of GW, I have three different types of regular frontline infantry to choose from, so if one is bad I can just switch
GW has been good to Necrons for 10th except for a small bit before our codex we have been at least 48% for our winrate plus there was that 6 month period after our codex where we were #1. We have been consistently in the range of solid to Great.
Plus there are a lot of newer ppl in the faction or people who got it as a secondary faction so the winrate among main necrons is higher.
idk if I agree.
The faction on a whole might be mostly well balanced against others, but from what I surmise the internal balance of the army is baaaaaad.
Units never seen, other units are autotakes (as in, take them or you'll lose), one detachment grossly over-represented...
Crons still need a major shakeup of internal balance imo.
The 49% and 51% armies probably should've been bundled into mid tier. Pretty nice to see so many armies at the centre, hopefully the next dataslate helps out the stragglers.
Thing is if you use these numbers as reference you would be bufffing things like vanguard marines, grey knights, black templars. They do not need buffs, theyre strong enough!
@@EverydayEldrad🤣🤣 no there not, don’t make me laugh
It did not. It obliterated Sisters for the crime of being strong two patches ago.
I swear, the GW is just bad when it comes to GSC balance. They either nerf them into the dirt or make them way overpowered.
A fair number of players aren't super happy with them right now, even if they are dominating at the moment. All eyes on that Cult Ambush rework ;_;
They are a problem child like 9th ed Admech, both are very intricate armies with a massive skill ceiling. Casual or even low end competitive players find the army to be fine while the giganerds know every little trick and FaQ ruling to eek out wins. It doesn't help that because GSC is a very intricate army it's player pool is small making QA testing changer much harder.
Thousand Sons being at a cool 50% I think is deceptive, because they have basically *one* viable army list. Tabletop Tactics did a "game accurate" SM2-themed battle report with no Magnus and only three total character models, and the TSons got tabled on turn 3 without scoring a single victory point.
The army can clearly still compete but it's extremely brittle. There's virtually no flexibility in list-building and most TSons competitive lists look pretty much identical.
World Eaters are in the same boat.
Really wish GW would get off their lazy backsides and add some actual options to our rosters for once... we need more than 3-4 actual datasheets, instead of just shoving in more and more AoS crap and calling it a "model release"
I think that's true for a lot of armies. There's a distinct lack of _internal_ balance within each codex, meaning you frequently see the same detachments and units crop up throughout the edition.
I think the rules are so simple and the profiles so limited in their design that you end up with very swingy results whenever something gets adjusted. There isn't enough granularity. It's like a ratchet with 4 teeth - you can only click between very large settings.
For example, if wargear was still costed separately, you could adjust each point on that either in addition or instead of the model itself. Same goes for unit rules; you could have a cost scale for different loadouts. Right now though, things are simple to a flaw. There's little dexterity, or dare I say, fun, in this edition.
@@DeathInTheSnow Making wargear free was the worst decision they made in 10th, and the bar is pretty high on that for me since they also deleted my precious Psychic phase and turned Ahriman's Psychic attack power into a water gun.
The only way to make that balanced is to make all possible wargear combinations equivalent in power, which is not only dumb, it often just doesn't work. Lots of squads which people had previously modeled to have a balanced mix of weapons would now be better off all having the same best weapon option because it's free, so why not?
Even so, the armies with larger model ranges have a bit more wiggle room. TSons have the smallest unique range in the entire game, and it's made even smaller by the need to stack Cabal points.
Yeah as a ksons player we have one list and that's all you're ever allowed to run under any context
You run Magnus and Ahriman so you can doombolt every turn, you run as many MVB's as you physically can because they're bonkers, you bring the rest of your lists in rubrics and leaders for the rubric squads,
That's it
You don't run Chaos spawn, No daemon allies BC GW would rather butcher the concept of daemon allies wholesale than balance the literal 2 problem daemons that exist. (Also nurglings are battleline so this didn't even do anything to make daemon allies less cheesy there's still nurglings in every single chaos list), you don't run tzaangor BC they're useless, you don't run cultists. We have like 6 data sheets and we're throwing if we use half of them
Oh yeah scarab occults are legit unplayable rn too
If you have the patience to paint that many genestealers you deserve to win
Nids are at a decent place, now if they can bring all the rest of the "feels bad to use" units up to snuff without causing a bad power spike then we be golden
Looking up to you Hive Guard!
Help my boy PoM out!!
Doing my periodic check-ins on the state of 40k, particularly Tyranids. Looked through all the units on Wahapedia and, frankly, some of the internal balance is unconscionable, which is most of why I left in the first place. Even if money were no object (and when is that _ever_ true?), it seems as if any list I intend to write is self-written, and not just because GW nuked list variance. I guess that's _one_ way to get people to stop running Dakkatyrants...
I swear that all this borked internal power scaling has _got_ to be profit-driven. You can look at what few meaningful choices a Tyranid list can make nowadays and see precisely which Tyranid units crapped in GW's oatmeal versus which ones they're trying to subsidize. It's the humiliation of Carnifexes I feel particularly bad for. Once chitinous gods of destruction that could flip a Land Raider onto its back, they now die in a straight-up fight with a _Sentinel._ Want a "real" Carnifex? Buy a Screamer-Killer, the Primaris Marine of Carnifexes. Come to think of it, want a Hive Tyrant that doesn't die in one shot? Buy a Norn Emissary, the Primaris Marine of Hive Tyrants. And don't get me started on shifting Termagants to 28mm bases or whatever they're on now. At least they have the courtesy to unambiguously suck, with Gargoyles being the new hotness. Figures.
At least it's not as bad as the supposedly ailing, crumbling, and critically failing Imperium that, despite allegedly being in the darkest minute of their darkest hour, half the galaxy is supposedly unreachable, and their beloved Emperor is functionally _stone cold dead,_ can never seem to stop miraculously tripping over new STCs for players to buy. Nice to see that GW's writing is as thematically dissonant as ever. At this point, they might as well give up on the whole "game" charade and just officially call it a roleplaying sandbox with no pretentions that competition tests anything beyond reading comprehension and statistics most people can do in their heads. Even the few 40k players I occasionally bump into loathe GW with every fiber of their being and instead 3D print, pirate, house rule, and "don't be a jerk" away 40k's many problems.
40k's seeming newfound balance across most of their armies is a complete mirage. Everybody who gave a crap left for greener pastures years ago. Do you really think Tyranids would be the third most played tournament army if not for _Space Marine 2?_ That game where the lowly Xenos jobbers were just a smokescreen for the _real_ fight against Chaos? _Again?_ Congratulations, Tyranid players! You have achieved the coveted status of universal target practice. The Orks tip their hat to you.
As much as I want to play my Deathshrouds, 18 DS lists are the only reason why the Death Guard win rate is so high. If they get nerfed, maybe the rest of the army will finally get adjusted to the point where it's more competitive.
Yeah, that buff we got isn't lasting long. I feel like it was a cheap way to get our win rate up.
Just please lord don't buff their indirect fire.
Yea, up the points back on deathshroud and buff (not a point drop) our other terminators. We need better internal balance.
@robertcusick9931 I actually think our army was great before the latest. Mortarian points drop was warranted; I don't like how other primarchs are soooo powerful. Relying on knights for 12 S was what was lame.
Honestly I think the faction is fine the way it is right now, since Mortarion is basically a distraction carnifex we need a hard hitting unit that isn't plague marines. Also I love the blightlords but they neeed an ablilty buff not points drop
THE IMPERIAL GUARD TIME HAS COME!! WE ARE THE HAMMER OF THE IMPERIUM
I was at the Onslaught WTC event in Florida a few weeks ago. We had 1 Imperial Agents player out of some 90 players.
Doesn’t seem too bad. Regular Space Marines being low probably rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but it reminds me of the Shoto problem in Street Fighter where if Ken and Akuma have any advantages over Ryu, the try hard players that care about their win rate are going to dump Ryu. Or near the end of Street Fighter 5’s life where Luke came out and invalidated every other Shoto. It doesn’t matter if they’re not the worst character in the game if another character is just the same thing but better.
To really annoy Ork players allow the cult of speed detachment to take the buggies in units of 3 again
As a Death Guard player being close to the top before getting a codex is a dangerous spot.
I'm so happy Astra Militarum is finally getting some love.
You mean aside from being pretty dominant for most of 10th? They've been topping events the entire edition
@@jacket2848 Exactly, I'm happy Astra Militarum is finally getting some love.
I remember playing in 9th and it was hard
as more armies get their codex and their choice of multiple different detachments, I'd really be interested to see the breakdown by detachment
I say give Terminator’s storm bolters S5 AP-1 and the pistol keyword. Do I think that would fix Space Marines? No, but I also would like Terminators to not suck so much.
@rickkcir2151 That's an amazing idea, especially for shittiest codex marines terminators who have the same point price as Chaos or DA ones but are much weaker by weapons and also rules.
As a Grey Knights player I would love this so incredibly fucking much
Definitely like the pistol idea. Maybe a boost on shooting when arriving via deep strike.
Give all bolter weapons +1 AP.
Pistol keyword isn't a good idea really. You would be able to shoot all the stormbolters and the special weapon due to how pistol rules work. Give terminators ability that say they can shoot in combat with stormbolters is a better idea
Hearing that the Tau are the 4th most popular faction to run out of 26 makes my belief that the Tau deserve more media from their perspective even more vindicated. I need Fire warrior to get a sequel glow-up the same way Space marine did.
Watch the Exodite and be happy, we Votann players are next in line!
(finger on the monkey's paw curls)
The Secret Level episode will involve Titus making sushi in the Chalnath Expanse.
@@AWPtical800 huh, what would he be making sushi out of? considering the Tau aren't fish it wouldn't be them.
@@drugskreening what dose this have to do with eldar?
@@skorathereckless6449 Exodite is a really good warhammer 40k animation heavily featuring the Tau despite the name.
DG being towards the top feels strange. I am here for it though.
It worries me. I don't want any serious nerfs.
I think deathshroud and Typhus could safely get hit a little and be fine though
@ them going to 110 feels strange. Could see them going to 115 and typhus up to 90 maybe. This being a balance dataslate where they fix rules I hope they change a bunch of our characters to make them functional/better
Yeahhh, I feel like DG is being propped up by deathshround slant lists. I love my deathshrounds as much as any stinker but 18 of em? id like to use the rest of my army lol. Hopefully in the upcoming dataslate typhus and shrouds get bumped up with blightlords and the lacking leaders getting point drops.
@Teh_Duck blightlords and the leaders can’t really get fixed by points. Blightlords are already the cheapest termies by PPM. They just do zero damage and have a lackluster ability. Same with the leaders
@@Teh_Duck the bad leaders need actual reworks to their datasheet, not point drops. unless the plague surgeon and noxious blightbringer go down to something obscenely low like 20 points, they'll never be able to compete with how good the blightspawn and the putrifier are in their current state.
Playing against my friend with Genestealers has been brutal for me in games when my dice aren't hot (Im also playing a UM army so that doesn't help either XD). It'll be a slog to kill a unit of aberants or like a 20-man of neophytes, just for them to pop back up in my face the next turn. Some games feel like I've fought a 2k point army with just my 1k points and get totally overrun by turn 4 or 5.
My experience with Genestealers is relatively low, just a single 500 point game. Pretty fun but like I demolished him and we were cool about it. I just think that I got lucky, good luck with your mate though.
@@Slate92500 point games don't indicate anything, it's entirely designed to be played at 2k
@@jacket2848Ok, well that's why I'm trying to get 2k points to have a rematch with him.
We’ve really been eating well over in daemon land this edition. Honestly feels like we play like what Chaos knights kinda should be imho.
Feel like the Deathwatch will get a huge surge once the new promised index is loaded by GW.
I bet it's gonna follow the trend of being very mediocre at best with maybe like a funny interaction at best.
Hahahahaha, you obviously haven't been paying attention. GW has been actively trying to kill off Deathwatch as a faction for YEARS now. Ever since 8th every time it looks like Deathwatch might climb above garbage tier they come in and nerf them back into the ground. Look at the launch of 10th edition if you don't believe me. For almost a whole week Deathwatch had a particular combination that could compete with top tier armies by being able to reliably wipe a single unit per turn and GW immediately nerfed it, not just killing the particular interaction but additionally nerfing other rules for them, all the while ignoring Eldar winrates that were well over 70% for several months.
@@logansmall5148and then they proceeded to literally just try to murder the faction by turning them into imperial agents allies… I don’t play deathwatch or any space marines at all for that matter but it baffles me that GW is disregarding such a cool faction and all the players who love that faction…
It'll be an addition to its detachment.
All the 5 deathwatch players will be thrilled
in my necrons in awakened dynasty one of my favorite go to non c'tan options is skorpekh lord with enaegic dermal bond for 4+ fnp on top with 4+ invul save makes him tanky and with him being an infantry charecter makes it so you can use a strat to stand him back up after he dies once
Agents could really benefit from a vanus temple operative, both in style and anti-vehicle capability.
This is amazing
Such a good grouping
Not even playing them but seeing Admech in the upper half makes me happy.
In the meantime Salamanders are in the corner shielding civilians
47:08 regarding the Adeptus Mechanicus, fight units are overlooked. I must say that Electropriest units are more tanky now and usable on par with Battleline units (when leaded by a dominus for the 4+FNP).
Overall this army has 2 main issue 1/ The steep learning curve 2/ the price of the mini ( and a bonus issue, the difficult painting process 😅. Those who know, know 😅😅😅).
Agreed. Really I do not understand how they can do so good, so many units. I used them in my last tournament but I was always running out of time, and I’m quite a veteran with them…
Cadia broke before the guard!
I think one way to help Space Marines out would be each detachment having one non battleline unit become battleline.
Infurnus for Firestorm, Eliminators for Vanguard, Outriders for Stormlance, etc
Now we can take more of these units who are sub optimal at best
I don't hate the idea for flavour, might take more than just adding the Battleline tag tho. Perhaps something Additionally like BA adding strength to thematic units.
Some detachments maybe harder than others to assign units, specifically Gladius... maybe it can glow up the characters units... It's more about adaptive leadership anyway.
@@tuurderom2017 they do also get OC 2 and can do actions in the latest mission deck
@tyhar7493 I was thinking maybe one of the veteran squads for Gladius
@@SuitsTheRedcoat I was thinking they made the most sense for first company.
Played the most of Aeldari so far, really like generic Autarc, Stormguardians, Wave Serrpents, War Walkers, and Fire Prisims.
'Perhaps overdid it with the Black Templar nerfs'.
Wow, you think so?
As soon as they have their winrate back up it will be right back to 'bolt on multi-melta' and 'sword brethren + insert character kill everything' videos complaining about how oppressive they are.
Yeah the Warhammer world throws an Emperor sized bitch fit whenever SM are good. It's really fucking annoying.
I like how the Templars keep eating points hike after points hike for playing to their strengths. Granted, old Ironstorm's its own can of worms, but the fact is that BT pay extra for the multi-melta as a chapter-specific deal. What's hilarious is punishing them for leaning on the crusader blobs and Sword Brethren GW gave them. It's fluffy and it works.
Not great when the rationale is trying to force a prescribed general playstyle while also pushing to let factions have unique rules.
Man. My Dark Angels, outside of wonky lists, have been in the low or mid 40s the entirety of 10th 😭
These are my favorite videos you do!
GK exodus is probably down to copy and paste of the army rule into other armies detachments. First it was necrons, now blood angels both armies have much more play and are just better than GK on the units and speacial rules front.
Also playing GK as a kitting, non interactive force is just boring and not fun for either person in a game, it will get boring and exhausting for most so inevitibly they will go elsewhere. As somone thats played since 7th its been there most un-interesting iteration and its why I'm on hiatus from 10th until the codex comes around.
Almost nobody play Angelic Host, it's a shotty detachment rule that doesn't match a CC army
Im a new player to 40K and have only played 5 matches so far, with Grey Knights.
I really enjoy the Grey knights playstyle. With Kaldor I usually get to be the first person going aggro. With Termies+ Rapid Ingress I'm usually going relatively aggro aswell.
I see it more as a guerilla style army. I try to outnumber my opponents where their "weaker" units are, usually the secondary scoring units.
I know I can't hang vs their "big stuff" so I try to kill the other stuff.
Have to say however...my games have so far allways been very close. It's hard imagining I would ever table an opponent.
PS: I currently have only played 1000pts so that probably changes the perspective a lot.
@ThePaintedHope the fact that you are new to GK actually says a lot. Anybody who has played them pre 10th knows that they have lost their identity as a psychic army.
I’m sure this could age terribly by the end of 10th but it’s nice that Tau hasn’t been public enemy #1 at any point despite the occasional moments of people over-hyping them.
They are still public enemy in our hearts 😉
Not surprised GSC have such a good winrate, they're basically guard but better in every way. Look at the Goliath rockgrinder vs a russ for a nice single unit example, very slightly less durable, much better shooting than any russ, and for some inexplicable reason actually dangerous in close combat and punishes people for falling back out of combat. And 2/3 the price to boot.
I wish brood brothers could take flyers, as it'd end up being the best way to do aircav guard then. Though maybe the codex will change that.
i'm a gsc player, we were doing fine before the buffs and now i have to fear the blue shell coming in our direction
The number 1 taken army is 7% (necrons) and number 3 taken army is 6% (tyranids)
Thats actually really nice to see that there is a alrge spread of armies
My Chaos themed GSC enjoying there day in the sun
Well time to nerf space marines again
I played some genestealers over the weekend. He failed all but one cult ambush roll on a 10 man squad of aberrants that took me 2 turns to kill. I still lost by 30 points. Didn't help much that my space marines couldn't hit anything.
Cool to see duch good balancing. Good job GW
grey knight units were always decent. but there are many units that can and do do it better or have rules that are always on. instead of once per game, or onley for charges.
For Imperial Agents I feel like if you just gave them an actual army rule that is pretty decent you would see a good increase in win percentage points.
I watch every single one of these videos genuinely hoping to see my army in the bottom half. I play guard.
I started wh like a couple months ago and went with black Templar because I thought ooo cool chapter, and I'm a big loyalist
AND THEY FUCKED ME
Dude I started with Deathwatch, you got lucky😂
My ass just bought a full 2000 points of Grey Knights and just peeked at the data slates
Imperial agents struggling isn't a massive surprise to me, kinda feels like 2/3/4 armies thrown together. If there was more deathwatch units, some spicier inquisitor stuff and one or two extra sisters/grey knights units just for variety sake it might be different
Grey knights went down after they nerfed libbies etc again. Just has been a steady decrease for us after libbies and dreads knigjts kept getting touched
The key to not hating balance changes is just playing multiple armies.
When you spend $150 on a fourth of an army that’s unpainted and unassembled you do have a right to be a little pissy about sudden balance changes. Especially in regard to how long they can take to make
Mechanicus still has the same problem it has had since the beginning of the edition. You are almost forced to take the conqueror imperative to have real fp (even more so in a meta where everyone has armor of contempt) because otherwise your weapons do not do damage. But if you do that you shoot on 4+, if your opponent has stealth or whatever you are already on 5+. They need to go back to BS 3+ to be a solid army.
Maybe one day something other than Skitarii spam will be viable. Robots and Cult Mechanicus need love too.
When we approached the Agents book and it came out you'd be able to make a list using Imperial Navy troops I was like 'hey this is cool and quirky, I do like the void armor dudes so maybe I'll finally actually get back into army collecting'. And then they manifestly sucked and weren't really a functional army after all. Very feelsbad.
It has never veen this ballanced tho. 18% from the absolute worst to the absolute best is really good. It used to be that gap between mid and top
It's wild that the Lion and Guilliman are only 25pts more than a walking hive tyrant with the standard enhancement choice of adaptive biology. What the hell *IS* this edition lol
Damn, DA just using Gladius will completely destroy our strongest detachment. It was nice playing with Hellblasters…well that option is out I guess
I just started collecting Imperial Agents. I like their voidfarer models.
Trying to make a 1k points rogue trader's army.
Shame the models are so damn hard to get =(
Managed to get a Boarding patrol box from ebay though
Hey Auspex! I’m sure you’ve heard/seen, but they gave the Nemesis Claw Unit rules for 40k! Would love a review of them!
Great balanced. Love to see it.
Inner balance not external balance wise - I don't get Chaos Knights having ws/bs 2+ small knights for super cheap if GW wants people to run normal knights at all.
Gray Knights fell HARD, good thing I have Knights as a proper fallback
Interesting that World Eaters have low win rates at tournaments because they typically absolutely dominate in casual games. Fluffy lists just can’t deal with them. Unless you’re taking something to block the scout move and have a lot of screening and strong shooting, you are going to get slapped.
WE WR solely depends on whether or not the current meta cares about the chainfists or not. Resistance to AP, some -1s in melee? You win. The current meta just really bennefits them.
I think less adept players aren't as tactical, so they don't know how to shut down the world Eaters gimmick. I love my angry boys, but they're a one trick pony.
Another kicker for why more casual WE players do well is how small the range is. With less datasheets, players who get a generic all around 2k army will not be too far off a viable list. The only room for fluff in WE is CSM painted red which sucks when they are expected to get a second wave this edition, so why buy the unthemed kits when something cooler might drop with the codex?
The Black Templar nerfs were unneeded. The 20 man primaris crusader squads were cheesy but didn't need that high of a point nerf. That was ridiculous. Ditto for the point increases on Hellbrecht and Grimaldus, unneeded. I got rid of all of my 40 collections except my Black Templars. My ride or die faction.
I wonder if DG will get a nerf in the next balance slate 🤔 I think typhus needs one because he’s kinda too cheap for what he can do but maybe making him 100 pts total. Also blight lords could use a point decrease while each shroud an increase I think I think that would bring DG maybe down by 1% but the army seems like it’s in a good spot so I’m a happy nurgling
Great analysis.
I am not sure why GW is afraid to give my Tyranids a reliable anti-tank unit or two, but this is getting aggravating.
I'm glad demons are doing so well. I need to invest in other gods. My army is 80% Slaanesh and I need to get it over the hump. Lol
Shocking to me (daemons player) that daemons are this high-might be my local meta (lots of very elite armies impossible to kill off objectives that high-mobility armies with leadership shenanigans don’t play well into), or maybe a skill issue on my end (more likely lol)
im so happy to know that by the time I'm finished painting my 37419 GSC models they will be re-nerfed into oblivion
Just played Gene stealers today, snd god damn it was miserable. I brought 1850 poonts but he might as well have had like 2600-2750 i took out so much of his stuff first round snd by his turn it was all back and then i got charged and most of the stuff i managed to kill while pinned down kept coming back till like roudn 4 after i kill abour a 3 of his remaining bois with an insane deadly demise but hs still won on points by alot
The fact that Core SM is not even in the top 10 of most played armies is a bit eye opening.
I just started making a imperial agent army I love the unique character I can use
Gsc are honestly an anomaly statistically. Gsc hasn’t gotten better as an army that much, the 3 people who make it work at the top tables are getting more efficient at it especially with the points drops
If I interpret the thumbnail correctly, this version of the game is extremely balanced compared to others.
Only imperial agents (which are 66% space marines), 3 space Marine factions and Grey knights are too weak and only GS are (way) too strong.
While I don't like balancing issues and am a marine player, I think just looking at this very small bit of data, that is pretty good balancing.
GSC is just in a really awkward spot right now too. It isn't just the win rate, but they way they play. I would hazard a guess that outside competitive they are actually not doing so hot. The way they win in counter to how the average person chooses to play a casual game.
23:00 I don't think GW have failed to make the big knights the focus because chaos knights are the armiger knights. Just as Imperial knights are the questoris knights. Want to play oops all armigers? CKs. Want to have a 3-5 list? Play imperial knights.
The thing about GSC is you have to be an expert to play them. So it bumps them up.
I want fluffy lore accurate as possible units. Thats the best way of balancing things IMO.
I find it funny that you call the Toxicrene underpowered. People are sleeping on it! It can typically hit 2-3 units each turn with its cloud for an average of 4-5 mortals. Have them walk in pair and they kill lone ops and charaters super easily.
You always Analyse army's by win´s and how the army list are. How about a deep look at SM army's or army's in general that loose GT´s and what there list did look like. In general i am interested to see what loosing army's look like and why did they do it? What have you taken and was it a bad choice or bad dice or simply the whole codex being trash. Or where you set up to loose by a team.
Poor GK... I wish they'd bring back stinkin' psychic phase. 10th edition came with many good changes but I think it was a big mistake to get rid of the psychic phase. Once something goes away I think its harder to bring it back. GK could answer many threats with psychic powers back in 9th edition. Their mortal wounds could crack even the hardest armor.
auspex GW tends to fudge win rates they do this all the time, this is actually the true win rate, for grey knights, they are not a good army design, people were relying on hiding and scoring to win with them instead of taking the fight to the enemy and many armies have the same rules but are not psycic, and thier better versions. so overall the army needed 4 detachments or a codex much sooner then the end of the edition. early on gw ignored many losses, and onley counted the majority of the wins, to make them look good. this is why they have had a consistent 3percent play rate even when they had a higher win rate the players knew the army was bad even if people around them were convinced they were good the play rate for tourneys never got higher. so they chose other better more fun playable armies.
DG need a look at, playing against that -1 tough -1 BS and -1 WS is just so unfun
What if we adjust renegade raiders rules down and adjust vanilla datasheet power and points for csm UP. I don't want to run the generic boring good slop detachment please.
buff other detachments, nerf rr. rr doesn't even need that much of a nerf. Fellhammer literally needs a change to only one line.
Please make the big chaos knights cheaper! All I want to do is run 5-7 giant boys!!! 😊
I wonder what good players of grey knights are playing now? That drop was with no nerfs really.
Dont hate on DG, we have been total ass for most of the edition. Remember how we were doing with launch?
Yeah they absolutely nerfed us black templars into the ground for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Games workshop was like "oh they are enjoying themselves.... Let's put a end to that"
And yet for all the bad performance of the Space Marine lists, Calgar and his boys are at the top of tournaments all the time: It's just that there are a million ways to build a list, and most units just aren't very good.
As for death guard's results, they are more about the meta than about pure army strength. The things that they are bad against got nerfed to next week, and there's many melee armies that are good in general, but are weak against every single one of the death guard infantry's strengths. The toughness loss, the bonus they get to choose, Mortarion's aura, -1 damage, figths first.... and the counterplay is to just run a different army: Tsons beat them pretty easily.
The idea for all these marines units opening up many ways to build a list is great but clashes with how the game is centered around competitive play.
Ultramarines are the most standout in the codex, sure, but I guess tough luck for the rest of us who don't wanna play Ultramarines or Gladius.
Tyranids only at 49%. Think it needs a 51% increase at least
@@NornQueenKya as a tyranids initiate, I agree
I hope he sees this sis.
I actually think space Marines interiors are in a fantastic place it's just a lot of people who are new getting into the tournament scenes use those two because those are the latest armies in the beginning sense for Warhammer 40K. If we didn't have any newbies playing I think the win rates would be much higher amongst the two
Yo
Bugger 😂
WAAAGH are so back right now
Hail Nurgle. Wish the Carcharodons will return
Event wins as a stat tends to reflect more on the players and doesn’t make for a great representation of army power. X-1 or better placements tends to show a better view of how capable an army is of taking down a big event.
Well, yeah... that's why the win percentage is there, as stated in the video, it's a collection of tournament games that sum up the percentage.
@ win percentage isn’t great either. It’s far too influenced by popularity which is why Space Marines always place low but are also regularly oppressive. What’s winning is more useful to look at overall, but if you stop at gold medals you throw away far too many successful players, particularly if you’re excluding undefeated that lost to tiebreakers.
@@ryanwhaley5041Codex Marines are, according to this video, 11th most popular faction
@@niallskinner7800they’re very popular with new players who are also more likely to play them over some of the more competitive variants.
That said, my greater issue is going with tournament wins as a stat instead of X-1. Pretty much anyone with a single loss was fully capable of winning the thing. Focusing on the faction of the single player that did is putting too much focus on the faction and taking way too much away from the player who made it happen.
@@ryanwhaley5041 People keep saying this, but it simply isn't true. I go to RTTs with 36+ people very regularly, and I am consistantly the only player with Codex Marines. I do relatively well, but I'm playing Ultramarines Vanguard with Uriel Ventris and Devastator Centurions, which is currently the only way to make SM even remotely viable, and will 100% be getting nerfed in December. The idea that SM are doing badly because newbies are taking them to tournaments is a complete myth.
they make like two changes to black templars and puts them into oblivion. sad day
points cuts help but are not a buff, most of the buffs they did get were base rules that didnt even count part of the edition as tourney organizers ruled against thier own rules, like the grandmaster ability. all it was was leveling of basic stuff they already had, i guess you could call a slight ap increase a buff for the dreadnight but i dont count it as its what it already should have been from last ed. so no they havent recieved true buffs. they need new rules for real buffs. Grey knights
Good thing i just got blood angels combat patrol so i now have the best space marine faction
At GW headquarters: “ok gang, deathwatch is the least played, let’s combo into the imperial agents and really jazz things up, make this a popular faction!”
Proceeds to become less played then the old DW…
Where did you find the numbers for play rate at big tournaments? I’d like to keep an eye on that metric.
the star ascends!
Why did they do this to my boys the black templars?