Batman saying "No more sources for Robins" while talking about orphans dying was, according to me, a common joke used by the fandom but I never thought DC would actually make it real. These writers have guts.
@@jeice13 Wait that makes so much sense. All the panels that the crossroads told you to go to were the possibilities that the Riddler envisioned, while the panels that you're never told to go to are what _actually_ happened.
The nicest part is that there are hints that this is the correct choice if you try to play by the rules. The only way to beat the puzzle piece trap is to have Batman blow his own way through. And if you ignore the plans, it says you won't play the Riddler's game.
It's on brand for Riddler's character too. His weakness has always been his ego and he takes it very personally when you refuse to play by his rules even when he knows he's rigged the game so that you always fail if you do things his way. His ego can't handle the idea of someone using lateral thinking to bypass his traps because his thinking is extremely rigid, and he can't admit that someone else found a solution he hadn't considered. Even if the solution is something as simple as "Read the book like a book."
The Riddler has two superhero gimmicks 1. His namesake, ties riddles and puzzles into his schemes constantly 2. Literally the most skilled bomb planter in the entire world, capable of planting bombs anywhere, anytime
And he can plant them anywhere in green spandex and STILL get away with it! Curse you, Riddler, my evening plans have been foiled due to your riddle bomb right outside my door!
@@thewarpipe6368 thankfully the devs showed some mercy when the players did new game+ even though all of that was just for the main Batman suit but slightly darker and with a golden bat logo.
The endings are also all written like they are from the perspective of the Riddler. Batman stumbles and fumbles through his genius, coming out the other side dead and looking like a complete idiot. That is EXACTLY how the Riddler would view all this stuff happening. So if you want to make this even more meta, all the bad ends is the Riddler thinking about how he would outsmart batman by getting him to play his game. This links well with the Question Mark being used at the end of all of them. While the lateral thinking parts is what actually happened. Essentially, we are getting a look into how the Riddler's mind works through this comic.
Oh I like that so then it seems like none of it actually is real except for the moves Batman Does. It's all just Riddler gloating to himself. But he never gets to do any of it except for the lateral parts.
To add to this, the whole comic to me seems like it is explicitly from The Riddler's point of view. The Bad Ends all have him perfectly predicting what Batman does and how he falls into the various death traps Riddler left for him, but the real series of events just has Batman inexplicably *appear* behind him not just once, but twice, because Nygma doesn't know *how* Batman circumvented all of his tricks, he just has to try and deal with him now that he did. But he can't, because *Batman always wins.*
I guess that justifies the humor of this comic. Batman is always like “no, I’ve been obviously defeated and outsmarted, and now I’m lampshading my own flaws” like a hater of a franchise would be like. Seeing that The Riddler is like a hater of Batman, it makes sense that he would imagine Batman as one-dimensional.
The riddler is a very difficult character to write 1. You have to come up with an elaborate plot 2. You have to create riddles around that plot 3. You have to make the riddles hard enough so that batman is the only one who solve them And that's hard dude I can see why most writters would decide to make him a joke
He's the perfect villain for the "Social Media" age. He's basically just a troll that wants people to know how awesome and intelligent he is. He's dangerously close to being on the right side of things a lot and smart enough to weaponize that. There are a million dummies out there that will think being a fan makes them smart... The internet would make him a king, with the puns, wordplay, and "To understand the Riddler one must have genius intellect." fanboys that would be inevitable. Geez that's terrifying lol
@@Scarethelocals Nah that's the Pattinson movie take, it's not a good one imo, Riddler is just a guy who thinks that's better than anyone else and despites humanity, at least dumb people, and he hates Batman because he is known as the World Greatest Detective and it annoys him, to the point where he would do anything to prove that he's not I know this is the Arkham games take but it is honestly the best one and the one that makes the most sence in terms of Nigma obsessing about Batman so much
Especially that last one, nowadays--all existing riddles are easily solved with a quick google search, so you have to come up with NEW ones, ones that give enough context clues to be solvable but not enough that a google search for THOSE terms can reveal the answer.
“Batman bursts into the Unmaze, and stops Killer Croc from killing all the innocent orphans. He is presently Unkiller Croc, which will always leave him annoyed” Gotta be my new favorite line from a batman comic
It's funny, but it's a clue to solving the comic. If he's not a killer, the comic says he's an Unkiller. Batman entered the Unmaze, which means it's not a maze.
I love that the first two skip panels just involve Batman inexplicably appearing behind Nygma with no explanation of how he got there. That is the Most Batman thing ever.
it also shows that the entire comic is from edward's point of view - all of the bad ends are just him imagining the ways he'll outsmart batman, but instead batman outsmarts *him,* hence why we don't find out how batman just appears behind him
The problem with smart characters in stories is the fact they need to be written by smart people. Most writers are good with scenery, emotion, and drama but they struggle with creating a believable smart thinker. It’s not necessarily that the writers are stupid or lazy. It’s mostly time constraints. It takes time to create a complex mind. It’s not a process that is quick.
true and let's be honest real smart people arent allways the most eady to a get along with and b in touch with whats popular and works for the story. so when you can make it work great but other times it can be easily too confusing for readers and messy. writing comics is an art form like any other and demands balance and respect. you can't treat it like a product to be rushed out, its a labor of love and geniune pasion to be good and just a wee bit of luck. its hard man.
@@WonderWolfie99your comment is equal parts ironic and genuinely inspiring. You're talking about comics, one of the most serialized media formats... Crunch culture and selling out for brands/products has been in the DNA of comics forever... Yet you speak with such passion, and desire for integrity in the world of comics. I seriously hope you work in the world of comics some day. You will make it better for everyone who enjoys them, even if just a little bit.
thanks your too kind im not in the field but should i ever end up in that world ill keep this in mind. for now im just a fan and appreciator of the ritch history risks taken and deeper meaning theese characters and stories have on us and what goes into that magic, plus i hate to see a good art form die due to devisive politics and incompatce. @@salmon_wine
A smart character with an ego like Riddler, at least. It's really easy to write a smart character who is actually applying their intelligence practically, because usually they prioritize simplicity, efficiency, and logic.
One of, imo, the best Riddler stories comes from the Justice League Action cartoon where Riddler is a detective since he got tired of being sent to Arkham and thought 'if that lunkhead Batman can be a hero, surely I can be a better one'. Batman's been kidnapped by the Joker and Wonder Woman and Green Arrow aren't getting anywhere with the video Mr J left. Riddler swans in, says he's the best man for the job...and with the lasso of truth on him vents that he hates that Joker's stealing his gimmick, even if he's not a villain any more. After solving a few clues they wind up at the Art Museum and there's Joker with Batman in a death trap...the only way to turn it on is if Riddler answers a riddle 'What has four eyes, but cannot see?" Riddler is more confused than anything and says he obviously won't say it, with Joker going "Sure...you probably don't know it anyway." This gets Ed's ego in a tizzy and he compulsively yells the answer, because he refuses to have anyone think he can't solve a riddle Turns out this entire scheme was less about killing Batman and more about Joker messing with Riddler. Why?...he's mad Ed stole his pudding cup the last time they were both in Arkham together.
This comic read like House of Leaves. You can only read the book how YOU want to read it. There are so many red herrings, puzzles, traps, and terrifying little holes to fall into but you can persevere and brute force the book. Huggbees, get that book! You would love the Labyrinth Chapter.
I always wondered why Riddler wasn’t his arch nemesis. You would think a person who poses Riddles is the arch nemesis of the world’s greatest detective.
as Huggbees said in this very video, writing good Riddler stories requires a lot more work than good stories for most other Batman villains. Hell, Batman rarely gets to earn that "world's greatest detective" title for the same reason, instead he might just be called it because it's a title he's had for decades, but then he'll do something stupid, falling for obvious traps(because we need tension in the scene), or missing vital clues that were in plain sight(because we can't have the plot end yet), or worse yet, the writers just have him "solve" mysteries with a leap of (un)logic to try and make him look smart.
@RipOffProductionsLLC exactly. Batman and Riddler are characters that can only exist within the skills of the right writers. Everything outside of that isn't written to the very high bare minimum of the characters. Iron man, Spider-Man, Braniac, and other super geniuses in comics have other viable gimmicks for them to rely upon, but Batman and Riddler are beings of pure wit.
@@DZ-DizzyDumm Batman can work without his wit, or at least with only minimal amount of it, a writer can get away with him just being physically fit and equipped with all his fancy tools and gadgets, while only making him strictly average in terms of his intelligence, as long as his strong moral convictions and other such personality traits are still there... But the Riddler is make it or brake it purely on how smart and clever he is, which is the whole point of this conversation.
Yeah, these other replies have a point; characters like the Riddler can only be done justice with a sufficiently complex plot line, while stuff like the Joker is far easier to do decently. After all, you know what they say; _“Anyone can run a circus, but it takes a great mind to build a labyrinth.”_ (And by ‘they’ I mean ‘me, a few minutes ago’)
"There's an average Florida resident, and a man in a super suit ready to kick your ass in the same room, and you decide to go for a box on the floor?!" This line absolutely destroyed me.
You know how they say "the only way to win is not to play?" That comic is so brilliant because the only way to win really is not to play - to not even take the options presented to have Batman circumvent the puzzles, because those are still options being presented *by the game.* Choosing those options is still playing by the rules, and playing by the rules is how you lose. It's so perfectly meta and I love it.
Another cool detail about this comic I noticed, whenever you play through the game Riddler has in store, the comic refers to Batman as "The" Batman. Not just Batman, specifically "The Batman." As if the Batman you are taking the role of is some sort of entity, a single Batman out of many, something besides the genuine, real Batman. And once you stop playing and start reading through like a comic book, that phrase of "The Batman" disappears. It's the real way Batman would go through this situation. The genuine article at work. The one, the only, "Batman." In other words, the comic itself is saying that if Batman were to play Riddler's game, were to jump through all these hoops, and to lock himself in unavoidable death, it wouldn't really be him. Tl;dr: With one word, the game distinguishes between you pretending to be Batman and Batman's real methods.
this is really cool, genuinely would be a baller piece of meta. so that’s why i hate to say that “The Batman” is just the proper/full title for him. comics use “The Batman” a lot when they’re talking abt him in 3rd person, and just “Batman” in 2nd/1st person, usually in dialogue (also see: “The Joker”/“Joker”, “The Riddler”/“Riddler”, “The Penguin”/“Penguin”, etc.). “The Batman” is his title, “Batman” is his name.
it could also bee seen as the ridderl's narration or perspective, as villains would indeed sometimes call him the batman. or maybe I am reading too mcuh into it.
It's amazing in how Batman's rogue gallery tells us more about him: The Joker reflects how Batman is always down for a good joke Two-Face his sick sense of style The Penguin how he prefers cold climate Poison Ivy how big of an avid pot user/supporter he is Riddler reflects Batman's gamer mentality Bane his love for mexican food Harley his service top mindset And Catwoman is to showcase his furry side
At first I was like "yeah I love that about them!" Then I was "what?" And finally "ah yes how could I have ever thought of it any other way this is the perfect interpretation"
I loved the Riddler in the Arkham Games. (Even thought the trophies in Arkham Knight are hard) I feel like the writers really aced the narcissistic and egotistical nerd rather than just a guy in spandex who does riddles. It gives him some background, like how he was bullied and grew up with no friends. I think when written well, this character is very compelling.
It helps that he was acted perfectly by Wally Wingert. He played him in all 4 Arkham games and I can’t thing of anyone else to play as the Riddler other than Wingert.
I would completely agree with “The Riddler” being one of Batman’s greatest villains but, personally I have a love for Scarecrow which Mr. Bees didn’t bring up at all, it made me a little sad he didn’t get recognition, other than that another great vid
Well, Scarecrow goes along with what he says. He is Batman's fear, not only his own but the one he inflicts, while batman makes criminals fear him, Scarecrow does the same to his enemies, be them evil or good.
Riddler is a great Batman villain because Batman was originally coined as “the worlds greatest detective” in the comics. Instead of just fighting the riddler Batman actually had to solve a crime.
Something interesting of note In Riddler's game, when you're close to the plans, suddenly he has a power suit? Something fishy is definitely going on. And every bad end results in Batman's humiliation and dying horribly. Not just "oh Riddler got away" or "Riddler blew up a building but Batman is alive to fight another day". No, he gets _sliced to pieces multiple times with that same dumb look_ Also, Killer Croc isn't really a factor in the final ending and, in fact, he only shows up once you take one of the first paths, and if you take the path pretty much labeled "don't play Riddler's game", the joke-y ending is probably Batman's most humiliating, as if Riddler is teasing you for still being in his game despite _choosing_ not to play. Batman feels weird in every result that involves playing the game. The only time Batman feels like Batman is when you don't treat it like a game and treat it like a story. Kinda makes me wonder how an adaptation of this story would work, assuming it was even possible.
the only way I could imagine it is like uh, netflix's interactive thing. You'd get the options to choose, but waiting it out would just let you watch it like a normal film.
@@juicebox3495 I don't know about Netflix, but this would actually be pretty simple to do with a DVD or Blu Ray: Assemble all 40 chapters, and at the end of each one, loop the footage asking for a selection on where to go next... Except, if someone just pushes "Next Chapter" at specific points, it'll jump to the hidden "Bat-path"
You would need a point 'n' Click 'em up that would showcase the game. Add a little meta dialogue for Batman each time the player gets him killed. After all the scenarios you then let the player take the "non-game" option
@@ProcGenNPCs Or better: Icons that asks you to press them in order to "Play the Riddler's game", to be able to trample over it, you need to press things such as doors and stuff, to press the elements of the background... or just let Batman decide himself.
the problem is it's not a story, it's a game. It's a game in which the theme is not to play games when lives are at stake, and the theme is conveyed through deceiving the player about how the rules work. An example of an actual videogame pulling this off would be undertale, in a very different way obviously.
It's funny because the modern conception of The Joker was actually largely stolen from Frank Gorshin's Riddler: the constant laughter, the singular obsession with Batman, heck, he even had a cane once. Originally, Joker was just a gangster with a clown face.
The Riddler, of all the Batman villains and possibly of all DC villains, he's probably most versatile in terms of design. Every incarnation of The Riddler, be it comics, movies, cartoons, shows, video games, whatever, his look is drastically different but people can still go "oh yeah, that's The Riddler" as long as up to three major traits remain. Green, a question mark, and sometimes a bit of purple. Sometimes he looks dapper and acts more like your traditional Bond villain, sometimes he's a lunatic in a spandex suit covered in question marks, some versions has the cane or sometimes it's a staff that looks like a question mark, sometimes not, he could look like he crawled out of a meth-lab in Florida, he could look like he shops exclusively at Hot Topic, sometimes one version takes inspiration from a few of the previous versions, the newest one (the Battinson one) is wearing a bondage mask and looks like he would stab me for my change under an overpass. While it is true all the Batman villains, a lot of comic book villains and characters, go through major design changes to suit the times, settings, and overall story. I'm just saying Riddler has the widest variety, and that's part of the mystery of him. The riddle of him, so to speak. What will he look like next, well that's the riddle.
I nearly agree with everything you just said. All Riddler costumes/outfits have a sense of theatricality for the most part. In the 60's he dressed as zany as the rest of the rogues, just mirroring the comicbook Riddler for preference. (BUT, without Frank Gorshin, we wouldn't be having a Riddler in a suit since he conceptualized it!) In BtAS, he dressed up more as a gamesman who wanted recognition of his brilliance, only to be fired by his Boss AND denied the royalties of his game, making him bitter and wanting for revenge. In Forever, he was similar to BtAS but also still attributing to the comics/60's version since this was a pretty cartoon-esque world of Gotham. In the underrated TV show from 2005, The Batman, the Riddler was brilliantly complex who knew he had to have a costume to stand out from the rest of mundane criminals for his heist to work. The latest Riddler from what I've seen from the trailers, (I haven't seen the movie since the local theaters are still closed) he's very modern but still very much a showman while trying to conceal his identity, from a more realistic perspective since not everyone can afford a custom green suit and mask. Kind of like Batman, making a point to the symbol rather than the man behind the mask, but with a budget. BTW, it's a Cold War winter mask. I'm guessing Riddler bought or found it.
@@AmberGemnia not gonna spoil the movie but with your take on the new riddler I'd say you're onto something... as long as you didn't watch that joker deleted scene. if you did than I feel like you are the riddler and I just solved your puzzle by not playing your game
@@notapplicable6985 I know. That show was totally underrated! Had high hopes for Hugo Strange until that alien story arc. But overall, it was a very different take on everyone, in one of the best ways possible.
The new movie does an interesting and pretty unique thing with the Riddler: he's still campy and cheesy, but in a very modern, believable way that tilts him a little more towards the 'torture room' grim dark version of him you described at the end. The thing is, it's clear he's *trying* to be this grimdark 'I am the puppeteer of your fate let's play a game' sort of character, when in actuality he is a massive dork who's lonely and searching for a sense of community and an inflation of his own ego. He's incredibly smart, genuinely dangerous, and makes a good foil to batman, but he's also putting on an act. In reality, the Riddler is kind of a loser, desperate to show off how smart he is to the city of Gotham and have them acknowledge his genius because he's lonely and pathetic. I think it worked extremely well for the tone of the movie, and this movie is by FAR the best iteration of Batman I think we've ever gotten in film: he's actually a *detective* in this one, and most of his success comes from solving the puzzle, not punching dudes. That said, I dunno if this version of the Riddler is going to line up with the sort of thing you specifically love about him based on this video.
@@deplorabledegenerate2630 The Riddler's activity and plan in the new movie revolve somewhat heavily around social media, which didn't exist when the Riddler was first created, but it makes sense given that his character is so driven by ego and a desire for external validation. If someone with the personality of the Riddler existed today, I don't think it would be difficult to imagine them using livestreams and the internet to fuel their narcissistic dogma. I understand that 'modern and believable' sounds like a shitty watchmojo buzzword line, but I didn't use them for no reason. If you don't like the direction they took his character that's perfectly fine; not everyone will, and the Batman mythos has so much room for reiteraton and reinterpretation (from campy and silly to grimdark edgelord stuff and everything inbetween) that there's no way every fan is going to like a more modernized 'what if batman but in current day and 100% serious' version of the mythos. I do think, however, if that's the type of Batman a creator is going for, then the Riddler's interpretation in this movie fits that about as well as it possibly can.
@@bakuhakudraws5603 you are partially right, the concern for buzzwords were there, but not my main one. The social media thing makes sense, but it being believable... eeeeeh does the Riddler use Nord, Express, or Surfshark as his VPN of choice? It is fine. He can be a super hacker. This is a super hero movie and a little science fantasy should be expected. I just recall about ten years ago watching an old Batman TAS video wherein the caped crusader fought Poison Ivy and being Poison Ivy she had a giant plant monster. The most upvoted comment was someone complaining about how unrealistic that was and how the Christopher Nolan Batman completely changed things and how comic books need to grow up and stop being so juvenile. "Believable" is a much better term than "realistic", because we are talking about a rich orphan who dresses up as a bat and beats people up with ninjistsu and James Bond gadgets. It is okay if Batman punches a killer robot but some people disagree.
@@deplorabledegenerate2630 oh absolutely; that's what I meant with my comment about Batman being able to be iterate/reinterpreted in so many ways. He's never going to be 100% 'realistic', but some interpretations lean towards keeping things more grounded, while others go for more campy/goofy and really lean into the inherent silliness of the premise. The Nolan movies, for better or worse, very FIRMLY established 'gritty realism' as the ideal that the film interpretation of the character are shooting for, at least for a long while. Honestly I'd say The Riddler is one of the hardest Batman villains to make work if you're going for that style due to him being so inherently goofy. I think this is a great version of The Riddler for this grittier more down-to-earth style of batman, but it's definitely not going to be to everyone's tastes, especially if they prefer a more campy/silly style for Batman.
I actually really liked The Batman. The way The Riddler sets up this narrative for Batman to unravel and follow really shows using his intelligence to try to influence people. He isn't just trying to enact his own schemes with rhyming couplets, he's actually trying to mold Batman into an ally. That was a strong play and I hope we get more of these movies because I want to see what happens next.
true yeah but I hated how his plan was basically be batman's q anon mr online anti govermen cyber conspiricy theorist vioelently brirng down gotham by uniting the crazy's and pretending your doing something righteous that felt way to political and modern, to be batman stories work better when they stay in the timeless fantasy realm.
I loved the batman because Im starved for good DC films. It was a cut above a lot of the other DC movies like black atom and justice league. I really enjoyed it because for all its flaws you could tell it had passion and artistic vision.
If I am not mistaken, the writers for Batman: TAS rarely used the Riddler as a main baddie in the story because he was hard to write. Like you said, it just comes off as child riddles and camp, but the episodes that had him as a frontline antagonist actually had some unique brain teasers, of which it did stump Batman in a few scenarios. One of which was when the Riddler wrote a number on a chalkboard and Batman recognized the address but failed to account for when Riddler turned the chalkboard on its other side, flipping the number to an entirely different address when read upside-down.
Very rare. Riddler's only used in 3 episodes in a series that had over 50 episodes. Ra's al Ghul was used more often than Riddler. Though Riddler did get some of the best episodes like "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?" because Riddler ended up winning in the end. Batman was able to stop him from killing his old boss Mockridge like he planned, but Riddler got away and the experience destroyed Mockridge's peace of mind; leaving him a traumatized nervous wreck.
I did really like the third Riddler episode where he’s pretending to be done with crimes. The scene where Riddler self reflects on how he’ll inevitably be caught and sent to prison again after speaking with Batman is probably my favorite scene of him in the show
Tbh, honestly? I realy do think that many writers are simply intimidated by riddler and his potential. Many times, when they try to write smart characters, just downplaying everyone elses inteligense in the story to make big brains appear smarter. I kind of notised it being used in death note.
I like the riddler in the new movie, but he doesn’t really conform to your ideal. He’s definitely a bit closer to the “mr puzzles” type you described. With regard to the puzzles being solvable they’re a mixed bag, after a second watching I noticed some we’re definitely solvable and fun but others weren’t possible to solve. I liked it overall.
I disagree, spoilers here but in the scene where Batman has Riddler in custody and is interrogating him, Riddler talks about how he was playing a game with Batman and he actually thought Batman was helping him. Batman realized he messed up, because he was treating it like puzzles he was waiting each one for another clue but in reality he was just helping the Riddler by not trying to jump ahead and stop him and just playing his game.
@@Directordk97 That's also how I saw it. I don't even watch batman much and i saw this movie. When The Riddler said "You haven't figured it out yet?" it makes you pause and think "Wait, we didn't win yet? But what did we miss?" Then it loops back to the murder weapon from the very beginning. Even at the end of the movie Batman didn't win, which shows Batman's flaws as a character and how The Riddler is still a big threat in the city because you still don't know how many more steps ahead he is.
But also Batman plays riddlers game and he even says we did this together. Riddler made the game so that he could finish it with the Batman’s person abilities and have him realize his hypocrisy. It was smart
When you were reading the first bits of the book where you were playing the Riddler's game, I knew something was off due to how stupid it was being. The orphan ending made me realize that the story was being told in the way the Riddler would tell it. He was making fun of batman the whole time. When you went to the part where Batman was getting the upper hand, the writing and the dialogue got noticeably more intelligent and made more sense. Stellar writing from a comic book.
"He is currently UnKiller Croc, which will always leave him annoyed" almost reads like something out of a slightly darker twist on the 60s Batman. Like a clue he would find that would lead him to the solution that the "unmaze" isn't truly a maze at all
Another good sign is the puzzle piece endings. The first time around, it makes sense either way. But after you know the puzzle piece is an explosive, both sounds very much like Batman being stupid for no reason, like him randomly experimenting with a thing he suspects is suspicious. This is what he hopes Batman would do, because he wants to be smarter than Batman.
@@connormcilraith8190 yeah, this video came out on the 24th, and the movie released on the 4th with much hype(he uses footage from the film) so I wouldn’t doubt that he’d heard about the Riddler in the film
He didn’t predict it, you wheelchair. He said that’s how the riddler was in the telltale game… Ya know, the game that The Batman movie blatantly ripped off in it’s Riddler design….
I like how Riddler’s kills in the movie were thematic. For example, he kills a guy by using the rat-head-cage-thing from the book: 1984, because… 1. He wants Batman to reveal the rat that caused a certain drug bust 2. He’s hunting down Gotham’s elite officials who had essential ties in the drug bust, and by using the trap from 1984 it shows how something larger is at play and that he’s trying to reveal the corrupt oppressive society that envelopes Gotham City.
I think the meta part of Riddler is done well in the Arkham games. Something I really like about the Riddler Trophies in those games which don't get talked about, is that, like in this comic, in-universe, you aren't meant to actually survive them. After a certain point you're no longer able to get trophies due to them being seemingly impossible with the previous game's gadgets. This is intentional since The Riddler will design the Riddler Trophies around the equipment that he *knows* you have. And when you get new gadgets to do the impossible ones, he gets very noticeably upset and accuses you of "cheating" due to getting new tools to beat those obstacles instead of sticking to his ruleset. There's also certain parts where if you stand still for too long at certain puzzles, The Riddler will say something along the lines of, "What's the matter, Detective? Are you stuck? Don't tell me you're gonna go look up the answer on the internet!" Which I thought was funny. I always liked it when Riddler was treated as a meta character that plays with the norms of how a story in their medium is told.
Funnilly enough, I found that the funny video about batman googling the answer to the riddler's riddles right in front of the guy was the best way to deal with that baddie. Playing by the riddler's rules is a good way for him to get what he wants, be it blowing up something, killing the batman, or even feeding orphans to a hungry killer croc. Nothing says you have to play by the rules that he sets because as that video states, he is a madman and a terrorist. You don't have to lower yourself to his level and play his games fairly, you just need to focus on taking him down.
I've actually been irked by stuff like that. The idea is that Riddler makes up his own riddles. And maybe occasionally throws out a relatively well known one as a joke. Are the plot relevant ones we hear well known ones the writers looked up? Sure. But writing good stories is hard work, and a good Riddler story even harder. So we just suspend our disbelief on that area.
What's even more genius is that the "make your own path/story" idea is hinted during the explosive puzzle. When you followed the rules of the puzzle, batman died. When you tried to break the rules, batman died. But when you "make your own way through" batman can continue. The only way for you to beat the puzzle is to NOT PLAY THE GAME.
The new Batman movie is good and I did like the riddler’s plot. It definitely tried to have a deep hidden plot underneath the initial plot, but it wasn’t on the same level as this comic. Still tho, I liked the direction it went in.
Same. I think it was "dark" and all like they all are...but what else could he have done? He set up a elaborate ruse to show that the top brass if Gotham were evil. He knew ******** was the rat and where the money was going but he took everyone involved on a ride to see if someone "good" would step up . He was also convinced Batman was on a similar path to his. For a modern take I give it a legit B+ and the movie overall I enjoyed very much. Not as good as TDK but better than Rises or anything with Batfleck. Think it's either the second or third best Batman movie.
I love the Riddler. His introduction in the old animated series was so good. Especially that end line from Batman with: "How much worth is a good nights rest? Now there's a riddle for you." It shows how great Edward Nigma actually is, and how much he impressed Batman with his first ever appearance. And I love when they write him as more of an Anti-Hero. Someone willing to go overboard, but also helping Batman on some occasions, because of mutual respect for each other's intellect.
I like this more genuine kind of video where it’s clearly something you have a passion about. But you still have the iconic hugbees moments and humor. Great vid man
While the anti-villain aspects of Mr.Freeze always had him as my favorite villain Riddler is the best. Death traps, clues, a costume with style, and a inherent need to taunt Batman all make him a fun villain to read. He’s also potentially the least crazy considering he did a stint as a hero.
Actually really enjoyed the Edward nygma portrayed in the live action “Gotham” tv show, I thought it followed his psychology and character development perfectly, punctually, and often enough to hold the attention and spark the attention for nygma fans, I was saddened by the internet’s annoyance for nygma and thought the negative comments felt more practical being used on brainiac or somebody similarly hollow/shallow character wise
I love the idea of this comic. Of course people who know the Riddler would know the only way to really win is to not play, but we as the audience get suckered in by this new idea of a "choose your own adventure" Batman story. It takes advantage of the audience as a means to have fun and it makes the reveal of the solution actually more fun. The failure leads to greater satisfaction as well as giving us the answers we need. The only way to fully enjoy this comic is to experience everything. The failures, subtle clues, jumping around, and finding out the solution is doing what you normally do. Reading a comic book the way it's intended is how Batman wins. Because it's always how Batman wins.
I also like that when riddler wins, it says Edward Nigma wins, not The riddler wins. Subtly showing that riddler just has to have everyone know how smart he is
I will say The Batman(2022)'s Riddler is inherently and egotistical villain, and in the end his masterplan seems counterintuitive to his motives, but that's because his motives were never anything more than an excuse to emphasize his ego. I think that's the most important part of the Riddler, that he's a giant egotist.
I love this. That thread through the maze. How people cheat in choose your own adventures. If you can't find your way back, if you can't cheat the game, you'll just get lost and get the bad ending, over, and over, and over again.
When I read Choose Your Own Adventure books, I would put bookmarks at every choice and only take them out once I've gone down each choice. That way, I always know when there is a choice I haven't tried yet.
Also a bit of a hint for all of you, [18:14] The first panel page indicates that _"To Chase Riddler, go to Panel 3"_ and _"To Avoid his Death Trap, go to Panel 5"._ The correct answer is to actually add the numbers together and go to that page. That's why Batman found the backdoor entrance in Panel 8. Once he found the secret to Riddler's Games. He just needs to keep pushing forward and outsmart this menace even further.
Unfortunately doing that again at panel 8, would bring you to a death at 30. I really wished their was some consistent logic to what panels we jumped to when not mazing. Just skipping till you find it doesn't really feel like outsmarting, but just entering godmode.
@@covereye5731 wouldn’t the consistent logic be not to follow the rules of jumping around, but instead just go forward like a normal comic? The numbers seems to be like a little hint that you might be on to something, before dying and failing, kinda like the Riddlers hint to Batman on the importance of the map, only for it to be a death trap
@@covereye5731 it might be a stretch, but couldn’t you say that part of Riddler’s surprise in panel 8 was because Batman circumvented all the death panels of which we saw?
I fell in love with the riddler as a character with “The Batman” considering I’ve been a huge Paul Dano fan for a while. I love how they made it so that he could do the same things any of the other villains can (cliché blowing stuff up killing hostages) but without having to do much of the dirty work, he used batman as a tool to achieve what he wanted. It also made his character more realistic giving him the motive of him “being justice” while batman was “vengeance” seeing Batman transform from a warning to criminals to a beacon of hope to the citizens was incredible. It brought the two of them into a new light even if it wasn’t quite the same as the rest of the franchise. The best part was Riddler thinking Batman was on his side through most of it because he was cleaning up the city and it was justice, just not the same ideal of justice Batman has envisioned. Since that movie I’ve really gotten into the Riddler and it’s so cool to see him not portrayed as comic relief to make other villains look better. :)
This was eye opening. Growing up, I can confirm that I’ve always seen The Riddler as “Joker 2: Electric Buttplug” with very surface level thought put into his plot, and no cleverness at all, and I realized it’s problem was far too “chaos, but with hints” and not enough “skullfuck your mind with a question while you’re actively being misled and deceived”, just as real riddles are supposed to be. I truly now fully respect Riddler. Thank you funny man, Andies mints.
I liked your comment but have to disagree. The animated series did great with the character because they highlighted a core aspect of the Riddler. His ego. Even his vengeance against Mockridge is to some degree motivated by wounded pride that he a genius had been duped and cheated by a garden variety corporate shark. His inability to resist the thrill of "the game" and longing to prove himself by beating Batman in Riddler's own words, "the only one worthy of the game". It's a very different dynamic from the Joker who just wants to sow chaos and fight Batman. Riddler actively wants to best him and waste him and nearly blows him up.
I bought the comic to attempt the riddle. I got stuck after trying all routes, but once you mentioned that the second panel had the credits and to give the authors their dues, it clicked. It's well designed because you have to commit to not playing by the riddlers rules to win. The second you start playing by the rules, you lose. Honestly this is the beat designed "choose your own adventure" I've read, though I guess I've only read 2 CYOA books and they were Goosebumps CYOA.
I really enjoyed The Batman, I liked that a major theme is him realizing "Fear isn't a way to inspire people to be better, it only adds to the greater struggle". I think it's good when Batman has time to reflect, and (GOD FORBID) change his methods while growing and finding some measure of healing. My favorite example of this is in Batman: Mask of The Phantasm, where we see Bruce at his parent's graves saying "I could help in other ways! It just doesn't hurt so bad anymore! It's different now!" and begins pleading as he falls to his knees. "I NEED it to be different now. I didn't count on being happy. Tell me it's okay." That scene does so much in a little over a minute. ANYWAY, I thought it was a good'n. Great video, great comic, great villain.
This comic was excellent, but I was honestly pulled along for the ride you laid out for us. I didn't think I'd be so engaged in a video about the riddler for 28 minutes, but I was! And that's a part of the charm of his stories, isn't it.
The first problem is, you need to write a character that is smarter than Batman. Most comic writers struggle to even write *Batman* as particularly intelligent and cunning, resorting to "I knew you'd do that!" twists instead.
@@TheRedCap30 Not exactly. He's certainly very intelligent and cunning, but Knightfall was a brutally simple plan: Overwhelm Batman with sheer numbers by freeing and arming Arkham's inmates, and then attack Batman where - and when - he would be weakest: At his home, after running himself ragged cleaning up the city. How he found Batman's identity wasn't a feat of logic, but observation and intuition: He recognized Batman with just a few seconds of observing Bruce Wayne. In all likelyhood, he saw through the Bruce Wayne disguise, partly due to Batman's exhaustion going into the Knightfall arc, but because he had no idea who Bruce Wayne even *was,* and so had no preconceptions for the act to play into.
The Riddler is just like Scarecrow where they spent so much time on his gimmick so many authors forget to make them a character beyond that. Scarecrow isn't just "I want to scare people" and sometimes "Batman sees his fears in me", he's a fully functioning character with wants and needs and in the way Joker is a reflection of Batman's insanity Scarecrow could be a reflection of the fear that Batman instills in criminals on top of reflecting Batman's fears back at him. In that same way Riddler could be a reflection of "The World's Greatest Detective" aspect of Batman.
I remember reading a short batman adventure on my kindle, something my mom had gotten a lot of for free to keep me entertained. Most of them were pretty cheesy, and looking back I think they were just episodes from a Batman series in written form, although I'm not entirely sure. But there were a couple hidden gems in there. There was one about Catwoman going up to Batman and giving him insider information about what a certain criminal group was going to do, and Batman has to keep getting information from Catwoman about this group while also preventing her from getting away and doing her own crime. It was surprisingly very well done, and it explored Catwoman's and Batman's relationship a lot! There was this one scene where Batman is led to Catwoman's apartment to try and find her, but inside finds a file on the criminal group he was going after, along with a note that said something like "Bat, I'm currently away, so sorry to have missed you. Could you please water my plants? -Cat" to which Batman smiles and waters her plants before continuing his mad dash to catch her. But that's just one example. There was also a Riddler adventure. This had the added bonus of being a story told by Robin! Batman was missing and Riddler was wreaking havoc, turning off the city's power and letting criminals run around taking advantage of the city's security systems being down. The Bat Signal is still shining in the sky, and people are panicking and getting hurt, and some are doubting Batman, thinking he abandoned them. Robin has to go on this wild goose chase trying to find Batman because, surprise, Riddler kidnapped him. Every time the Riddler had a clue for Robin, he would shine the Bat Signal into the sky and a major crime would happen, catching the attention of Robin who would find the clue after he made his way over there and stopped the crime. It's actually quite suspenseful because Robin is trying to help as many people as possible from the added chaos, he's getting harassed on the street because people think Batman abandoned them, there are criminals everywhere, and he can't contact anyone because of the power, the only thing he has to go off of is Riddler's riddles and crimes, the longer he took to solve the mystery, the more horrific the crimes got, and he's was in a generally bad spot because his dad is missing. I remember loving this story and reading it over and over because the Riddler had Robin at the end of his rope, and Robin was trying to solve the mystery of where Batman was, making this a detective story!! The Riddler had basically won, and was just stringing Robin along for the sake of that he CAN! He even accidentally reveals to Robin where Batman was because he wanted to flaunt his victory. Batman turned out to be tied up to the Bat Signal, the very thing that was distracting Robin because every time it shone, a crime took place. So it turned out Batman was being cooked alive against the burning light every time Robin was preoccupied trying to help people. It's a SUPER good story with a genuinely good twist and possed Riddler as a real threat if it wasn't for his stupid need to flaunt his victory by literally shining it into the night sky. It really sold Riddler to me as a kid and I still enjoy him because of it.
This gives him a good characterization as a "brains over brawn",also in my opinion ,levering on his pride is the key. Joker makes a shield of his not caring,is nice to see an enemy that fails because he gets too engrossed in his own vanity. It makes them an effective villain,to show that it could only be led to defeat itself,which is exactly the trick to use against such a person as Nigma in real life. The Tower tarot card represented this ,the pride that lead to ones downfall,even i though i would use the term Vanity,which is connected to the desire for validation,something completely different from the Joker 's approach,which listens only to himself.
The Riddler is definitely a tough character to write well because his very concept is something that takes a clever writer to pull off. To actually build a decent character around that concept is a whole other challenge.
For as bad as the design of the Riddler was in the "The Batman" animated series, I liked the episode where they went over his backstory. He was an up and coming scientist, had a gizmo or gadget or invention or whatever, the tech was stolen away by a corporate big wig or something, he snapped, (admitted to Batman that was his last chance to have never been the Riddler,) and made one of these long riddle mazes out of that big wigs house. It was actually a good time for me as a child.
I thought his design always looked a bit too much like the crow. I will admit I don't really remember what I thought of the E man himself prior to watching it but he always looked just a bit too edgy.
I remember that episode, it was his ex-partner who sabotaged it, and once Edward was fired, she sold it to the bigwig, something that he didn't want to do at first.
a cool thing about the choose your own adventure comic thing i realized when you go along with the riddle batman looses because its playing by riddlers rules, youre basically choosing his way of doing things when you read it like a comic, batman wins because batman is a comic book hero, its his domain in a way, his way of doing things where hes guarenteed to win.
I will never watch a Batman movie the same way again. I knew that Batman had good villains but this breakdown has changed my perspectives on them entirely I edit to go further and say that I now believe the Riddler is my favorite Batman villain, closely followed by Mr Freeze (who was supplanted by watching this video)
If we’re talking Batman villains my favorites are the ones that either fuck with Batman mentally or are just bizarre from a gimmick point of view. My top go Scarecrow, Madhatter, Scarface, Killer Moth (because his mission in the Lego game was dope) and Clayface
Honestly, one of my favourite renditions of Riddler is the one from 2004 The Batman. Unfortunately, he was done dirty by only getting three episodes. But in his short time on-screen, he was just so dang original. He had genuine, clever plots, an interesting, empathy-provoking backstory, and frankly, his interactions with Batman were so entertaining. The man even has MOTIVE. Ikr! And guess what? His motive WASN'T riddles! It's wild! Now, readdressing his and Batman's relationship... In Riddler's Revenge, he and Batman get stuck in a cargo container at the bottom of Gotham bay together; the two have to work as a team to escape, all while Riddler explains his fairly tragic origin story (spoiler alert: daddy issues). I would have loved to see more of this team up like in the comics. My favourite versions of our boy Ed is the ones where he and Batman are working as detectives together. Their interactions aren't strained (not counting Bruce's mild irritancy toward Ed), Ed's motivations are true - often aligning with Bruce's own - and they just make an excellent duo. (To paraphrase a personal favourite quote of mine, Riddler to Batman, "Cool car. It's nice to be conscious in it for a change.) In a different life, I imagine Bruce and Edward could've been friends. Anyway, that's my rant done XD Amazing video, by the way!! I'm so glad I'm not alone in the Riddler fan club XD
"In a different life, I imagine Bruce and Edward could've been friends". That, in and of itself, encapsulates how the world of the Rogues Gallery functions. They all are close to Batman, and given a different path, or more appropriately, a *choice* ("There's always a choice"), they become villains, and are seperated from who Batman is and chooses to be. If they allied themselves with Batman, or did the right thing, they would be better than who they are, and even potentially outright friends with Batman. Freeze is usually the definitive pick people go to for villains that eventually are able to not only cooperate with Batman, but outright will often team up with him, however I think Ethan Bennet Clayface from the greatest Batman show of all time, is a better selection. Ethan was friends with Bruce right from the start, but chose the wrong path, even outside of the extenuating circumstances that left him shattered and left askew. When he turned to ultimately doing the right thing, it wasn't his relationship with Bruce that made him turn, it was realizing what he was doing, and being able to take the knowledge of The Batman and use it to better himself.
@@Jonathan-A.C. That's brilliant! I actually adored Ethan's tragic arc. I think 2004 Batman really was so underrated. 100% agree and love the fine line villains had walked to become *villains*. Thank you so much for the insight!
Riddler's first episode in BTAS, titled If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?, follows this idea of how to make a good Riddler story. He was a game designer who got fired and had the rights to his game stolen from him, so he comes back years later to take revenge on his old boss by creating a real-life replica of the game he created, which just so happens to be about a Theseus's Labyrinth-esque maze full of riddles and puzzles and enemies to defeat. It looks like the way to beat Riddler is to play the game, but that only stalls Batman and Robin further, so they take themselves out of the game and beat Riddler's maze their own way. A reason for the riddles and puzzles is given, and they lead into a larger plot. The best part is that Riddler still technically wins even after escaping. His old boss now lives in constant fear that his greatest mistake will keep coming back to haunt him, leaving Batman with one last riddle: how much does a good night's sleep cost?
Lol! The “what has 4 legs in the morning .....” part was genuinely the funniest thing I’ve heard in a while. Glad to see you doing vids on things you have a genuine interest in, makes it so much better
I immediately saw “To first get the plans” and would have chosen that option first. I was even surprised when he didn’t and then more so when he went back without going into the floor. But why did I think that? The angle of the shot. It was in the foreground, as big as Batman. Riddler and Croc were way off to the sides and smaller as if in the background. My eye was first drawn to Batman, and then the chest.
I agree but I think the idea is that by intentionally making it obvious it triggers your brain to be suspicious. Like wouldn’t the riddler want you to go for the obvious thing?
@@campbell9825 There's also the fact that whichever villain you go for first, Batman is always outnumbered. This means that he'll be even more outnumbered if he just goes for the chest. You won't even register the plans as a viable option because you already know how the game plays at this point.
Frank Gorshin as Riddler was AMAZING though. He was chewing scenery and he was a very worthy adversary to Batman. I think he was the REAL nemesis of Batman '66 and the Joker was just a second banana.
I think The Riddler could work amazingly well like someone who's well aware of all the tropes and expectations any regular person would usually pick up from general media, and twisting them to be an elaborate deathtrap with no solution until you stop to think for yourself A good villain brings out the best of a hero
The Riddler is the sole reason I became a comic book fan. Seeing him finally get this much praise and recognition just brings a smile to my face. And thanks for the recommendation! I played it blind and it took me a LONG time to figure it out! Such a brilliantly written comic. I got the same feeling I did when I played the Arkham games where you have to deal with the Riddler's deathtraps. And even there, if you play by Riddler's rules, you lose! That's the point of the Riddler. You need to figure out what his rules are and find a way to avert them. Riddler only figures out outcomes to his own plans. He's literally that egotistical.
I breathe with half the charm Yet I gather the most yarn I see all and know all But I can't do a darn I only have a single twink Yet I have all the kinks What am I?
@@exotic1405 You know I do feel bad that all those orphans are going to have such a bad day, as I have no clue. See I have a whole different way of not playing the Riddler's game.
I like how every modern version of the Riddler has to have all his riddles be edgy. Imagine if in The Batman the Riddler was just like "What has a face and two hands but no arms or legs?"
You hit the problem of writing the Riddler well on the head: It's hard to write a genius character who has a skill set you don't have. If you try to fake it, it tends to go down poorly. My favorite depiction of him was in Gotham Girls, where he's trying to play it straight by using his intelligence for detective work. But even they couldn't really do much except write run on sentences to show how fast he thinks (the conclusion he draws at lightning speed was less than impressive. It was basically the most obvious conclusion.) By the way, that comic sounds awesome. I love choose your own adventures, and as I was listening to all the ways Batman dies in the death trap, I was thinking how that was such a standard trope for choose your own adventures that it really wouldn't have been obvious to anyone treating it as such that something was wrong until they exhausted all options, like you did. Some of the ones I've read don't even bother to use logic, either- you die just because that wasn't the right option. There's no indication why it wasn't the right option, but next time, choose the right option. Try again! I want to buy this now, even if I did spoil the ending for myself.
I don't usually read a ton of comics, but when you said "choose your own adventure," I had to check it out. Interactive "choose your path" style books were always my favorite as a kid. I loved trying to figure out the correct path. This was such a fantastic twist on the rules of those games, and it fits the Riddler so perfectly!
My personal favorite Riddler comic technically doesn't count, as it's just the Riddler talking about how good the Silver Age was and how depressing the Bronze Age was. ("When Is A Door" from Secret Origins Special #1) "You look around here these days, it's all different. It's all changed. The Joker's killing people, for God's sake! Did I miss something? Was I away when they changed the rules?"
@@Fuck_handles Originally, the Joker *was* a killer, and a reference to The Man Who Laughs, when he first appeared back in the 30s. That changed in the Silver Age, as the Comics Code had very strict controls on the level of violence inflicted on human beings. This had lasted, in one form or another, for quite a while. Batman: The Animated Series had it so Joker couldn't kill *anyone*, initially - his *one* kill in Mask of the Phantasm was his first on-screen victim since Batman (1989). The comics had already moved back towards giving him a body count, but it was usually individuals, specific targets. Not mass-murder.
@@watchm4ker interesting, and imo the silver age version is very stupid since his whole(more like most important)thing is being absolutely f-ing insane...anyway thanks for explaining!
To me, Riddler stories, should be written like a mystery that needs to be solved. Because what is a riddle wrapped if not wrapped in a mystery inside... E. Nygma. I see there being two, perhaps three, good Riddler stories. 1. Classic campy scenario where one riddle leads to the next, Carmen Sandiego style. 2. Genuine mystery where there may be a riddle as a calling card, but the clues to what actually happened are scattered about. Perhaps with flashbacks to certain Chekhov's guns. 3. Greater scope villain where the Riddler is ALWAYS one step ahead of Batman, 'You may have saved the orphanage, but the cybervirus I modified will already be wracking your super computer systems Batman' or 'You might have caught me, but within moments your secret identity will be revealed to all of Gotham'. And it's only due to Batman 'skipping' a riddle, to think of his own path rather than follow the bread trail of clues left for him to follow.
The new Batman has barely any “I don’t wanna see this part” in it, however the riddler is somewhat between what you said he may of been, sure he has “jokes” but he also does some serious mental insane patient stuff, some of the puzzles are solvable, but only by Batman, while others you just need to think on the tools shown and what can be used with what
Another amazing dc villain has to be kite man because despite the fact EVERYONE says he’s bad and doesn’t deserve to be considered a villain, he keeps going. All because he knows he has to. “Kite man. Hell yeah!”
I absolutely agree that smart and clever characters need to be written by smart and clever people, I had the same thought while watching the bbc’s Sherlock, the writers are at an advantage controlling both sides of a chess board but they need their hero to logically come to the conclusion of the method of solving the villains master plan. And it’s that word ‘logically’ that is most important, the audience must always be able to understand how a hero came to a conclusion and if they think hard enough they may solve the riddle themselves. If you havnt seen the first season of Sherlock I highly recommend it, all the villains are smart and well written and Sherlock is done brilliantly. After the first season the quality goes a bit back and forth between great and confusing but the first season, definitely worth a watch if your a fan of mysteries, puzzles and fantastic plot twists
Reminded me of my favourite riddler story, where he becomes sane and helps Batman solve a crime. Showing the other side of the parallel that the rogue gallery represents. That if they made different choices or had a different life they could be more like Batman.
You should definitely see the new Batman film it's actually really good and the Riddler is quite effective at playing with the audience. I definitely appreciate the Riddler a lot more now compared to before I watched it. It's not perfect for what you're talking about here, but he doesn't have a cane and ultimately plays a game that even Batman missed in everything that happened
@@TieflingInAJar one of my friends wanted to watch Gotham strictly because of the riddler and how he seems to be really well developed in the show. And as someone who watched the whole show start to finish I told him absolutely watch it if that’s what you’re into.
@@TieflingInAJar i loved the development of both the riddler and the penguin in that show but at a certain point their storylines kinda felt meandering and boring, like once you've reached the end point of their arc there's not really much to do. It's why i lost interest in the show.
I absolutely agree. The Riddler should absolutely be written as an intellectual equal to Batman, or even smarter than the bat. I think the new movie's Riddler is good, but maybe not what you're looking for? I enjoyed the movie and, while it does have its problems, I think the Riddler enjoyable to watch on the screen
"There's a man in a high-tech super suit and an average florida resident". That caught me so off guard. I almost choked to death while I was eating. I think it was the delivery of it that made it so funny. I haven't laughed that hard in a while.
Have you listened to the Batman Audio Dramas? Specifically Batman: the Audio Adventures or Batman: Unburied? They both feature the Riddler pretty prominently, Audio Adventures goes a little more campy, and Unburied had him use his mind to help Barbara Gordon solve a mystery, both great iterations of the character imo
Lord Death Man actually did get a pretty interesting run later on, where he was written as an impulsive spree-killer who treats real life like GTA because he doesn't have to worry about dying. He goes to Japan to go on a wanton murder rampage specifically because he reads that the Japanese are culturally unused to violent crime and wants to cause as much panic and fear and possible.
I’m really glad you talked to about how the villains are meant to represent an opposing antagonistic view on Batman’s character. It’s something I’ve noticed for a while too, but will admit, some are harder to explain than others. I feel it’s more noticeable in Batman and Spider-Man. Such as doc oc (8 arms), scorpion (arachnid), lizard (predator) So I actually hope you can go further into explaining more villains it in another video.
Arkham Knight Riddler is definitely my favorite. He's eccentric, fun to listen to, and still managed to feel smart and not like a total idiot. He's so enthusiastic in his self loving-ness that you start to love him as well just because of his charisma. Loved every moment he was on screen. My second favorite character in the Arkham series, (after Joker of course. Mark Hamill is a legend).
Well god damn, I really didn't expect this. I've always thought the riddler was mediocre, certainly not he worst, but not nearly the best. This just flipped my riddler opinion on its head, thank you huggbees! Now he's up there with the greats: Joker, Freeze, Bane, Hatter, Penguin, and Riddler.
@@masterboa6321 Hatter showed up in BTAS and the Arkham games. He was always a personal favorite of mine. The guy is just absolutely insane, and I love it.
I like how there's a hint for how to read the book in the 'Ariadne's String in the labyrinth' line. Labyrinths and mazes aren't the same thing; mazes have offshoots and dead-ends while labyrinths are just the one path that winds around itself in a way that looks confusing. They're unicursal. Theseus in the myth was given a string and a sword but didn't really need either. There was only one way that led to the Minotaur and he killed it with his bare hands. There was only ever going to be one 'thread'.
My favorite aspect about ‘22 riddler is that he was essentially a copycat vigilante. Corny, campy, costumed, same goal as Batman and a similar method, he just aimed for higher criminals. Also that boy can 🎵SIIIIIIING🎶
finally, vindication for all my years flagrantly cheating at choose-your-own-adventure books -R
Lol
accurate xd
osp?
Red how could you?!
Hi Red!
Batman saying "No more sources for Robins" while talking about orphans dying was, according to me, a common joke used by the fandom but I never thought DC would actually make it real. These writers have guts.
I thought it was just the writers having strokes
Its kind of riddler making that joke considering thats one of "his" panels
made the whole comic 10x better (it was already good)
@@jeice13 Wait that makes so much sense. All the panels that the crossroads told you to go to were the possibilities that the Riddler envisioned, while the panels that you're never told to go to are what _actually_ happened.
We’re hitting spider man levels of torture here
I love how the solution to a choose your own adventure book is to read it like a fucking book because that goes against the Riddler's whole scheme.
I'd say it's more like a "choose YOUR OWN adventure" but yea
The nicest part is that there are hints that this is the correct choice if you try to play by the rules.
The only way to beat the puzzle piece trap is to have Batman blow his own way through. And if you ignore the plans, it says you won't play the Riddler's game.
It's on brand for Riddler's character too. His weakness has always been his ego and he takes it very personally when you refuse to play by his rules even when he knows he's rigged the game so that you always fail if you do things his way. His ego can't handle the idea of someone using lateral thinking to bypass his traps because his thinking is extremely rigid, and he can't admit that someone else found a solution he hadn't considered. Even if the solution is something as simple as "Read the book like a book."
@@dalemountain5041what?
@@DR.Ivo-Robotnik oops, dog smashed the keyboard
The Riddler has two superhero gimmicks
1. His namesake, ties riddles and puzzles into his schemes constantly
2. Literally the most skilled bomb planter in the entire world, capable of planting bombs anywhere, anytime
The environment is _riddled_ with bombs!
He could be bomb voyage if he didn't do 1. XD
And he can plant them anywhere in green spandex and STILL get away with it!
Curse you, Riddler, my evening plans have been foiled due to your riddle bomb right outside my door!
Gotham police might be quick but riddler is quicker
bombs only matched by joker in royal flush gang
My favourite part of The Batman was when Batman stopped to collect 243 Riddler trophies
Does everybody agree that collecting those damn things was fucking vile or is it just me?
@@just_that_crazy5179 im still collecting them. i have the game open right now. i hate this, *but i must get the true ending*
@@prest01 I love lego batman games and you know other dc lego games but I hate collecting things in them it kinda similar to realistic batman games
@@thewarpipe6368 thankfully the devs showed some mercy when the players did new game+ even though all of that was just for the main Batman suit but slightly darker and with a golden bat logo.
@@prest01 don't worry, your pain ends when you do new game+.
The endings are also all written like they are from the perspective of the Riddler. Batman stumbles and fumbles through his genius, coming out the other side dead and looking like a complete idiot. That is EXACTLY how the Riddler would view all this stuff happening.
So if you want to make this even more meta, all the bad ends is the Riddler thinking about how he would outsmart batman by getting him to play his game. This links well with the Question Mark being used at the end of all of them. While the lateral thinking parts is what actually happened. Essentially, we are getting a look into how the Riddler's mind works through this comic.
Oh I like that so then it seems like none of it actually is real except for the moves Batman Does. It's all just Riddler gloating to himself. But he never gets to do any of it except for the lateral parts.
@@darrienjones8917 Exactly. It makes the comic even more brilliant.
To add to this, the whole comic to me seems like it is explicitly from The Riddler's point of view. The Bad Ends all have him perfectly predicting what Batman does and how he falls into the various death traps Riddler left for him, but the real series of events just has Batman inexplicably *appear* behind him not just once, but twice, because Nygma doesn't know *how* Batman circumvented all of his tricks, he just has to try and deal with him now that he did.
But he can't, because *Batman always wins.*
@@rotciv557also the narrator is the riddlers mind, talking to a fictional batman in his brain
I guess that justifies the humor of this comic. Batman is always like “no, I’ve been obviously defeated and outsmarted, and now I’m lampshading my own flaws” like a hater of a franchise would be like. Seeing that The Riddler is like a hater of Batman, it makes sense that he would imagine Batman as one-dimensional.
The riddler is a very difficult character to write
1. You have to come up with an elaborate plot
2. You have to create riddles around that plot
3. You have to make the riddles hard enough so that batman is the only one who solve them
And that's hard dude I can see why most writters would decide to make him a joke
He's the perfect villain for the "Social Media" age. He's basically just a troll that wants people to know how awesome and intelligent he is. He's dangerously close to being on the right side of things a lot and smart enough to weaponize that. There are a million dummies out there that will think being a fan makes them smart... The internet would make him a king, with the puns, wordplay, and "To understand the Riddler one must have genius intellect." fanboys that would be inevitable. Geez that's terrifying lol
@@Scarethelocals very well put.
@@Scarethelocals yeah very clever adaption by The Batman. Cool how they share Huggbees idea of batman and riddler complementing eachothers intellect
@@Scarethelocals Nah that's the Pattinson movie take, it's not a good one imo, Riddler is just a guy who thinks that's better than anyone else and despites humanity, at least dumb people, and he hates Batman because he is known as the World Greatest Detective and it annoys him, to the point where he would do anything to prove that he's not
I know this is the Arkham games take but it is honestly the best one and the one that makes the most sence in terms of Nigma obsessing about Batman so much
Especially that last one, nowadays--all existing riddles are easily solved with a quick google search, so you have to come up with NEW ones, ones that give enough context clues to be solvable but not enough that a google search for THOSE terms can reveal the answer.
“Batman bursts into the Unmaze, and stops Killer Croc from killing all the innocent orphans. He is presently Unkiller Croc, which will always leave him annoyed”
Gotta be my new favorite line from a batman comic
Sounds like that AI generated Batman comic script with the Joker and TwoFace breaking into the bat cave.
That sounds like the entirety of Riddlers' "Game"
@@megakillerx sometimes bruce wayne, sometimes batman, ALLTIMES orphan
It's funny, but it's a clue to solving the comic. If he's not a killer, the comic says he's an Unkiller. Batman entered the Unmaze, which means it's not a maze.
I'm kind of surprised how the comic manages to have the campy jokes like that while still being "dark" enough to earn the rank of DC Comic.
I love that the first two skip panels just involve Batman inexplicably appearing behind Nygma with no explanation of how he got there. That is the Most Batman thing ever.
He's just moving very fast
it also shows that the entire comic is from edward's point of view - all of the bad ends are just him imagining the ways he'll outsmart batman, but instead batman outsmarts *him,* hence why we don't find out how batman just appears behind him
@@foxisconfused thats actually really clever. damn. that. that makes a lot of sense.
The panel that just says "oh" after the setup of "where is croc?" might just be the funniest thing I've ever seen in a comic book
He got his answer after all
Same energy as Norman Osborn saying “oh” while his glider careens towards him
@@TheMamaluigi300 glad I’m not the only one who immediately thought of that.
@@TheMamaluigi300 godspeed, Nigma
humor black as obsidian
"Better to press on than to play Riddler's game"
Was that the writers telling you how Batman could win? If so, that's genius.
Eddie just can't help but leave clues, after all...
"riddle me this what's dead YOU!" is my favourite Riddler line of all time
Bro, punctuation. Honestly. It's "Riddle me this, what's dead? You!"
@@hernehaugen6878🤓
@@hhhh82user Why do I wanna punch you?
@@hernehaugen6878 bro punctuation honestly its bro punctuation honestly its riddle me this whats dead you
@@pqbdwmnu I hope you're proud of yourself.
We don’t give the old riddler enough credit. Imagine how hard it is to hide multiple bombs around the city in green spandex.
Ok I get it, counterpoint!
He’s a terorist
Maybe just don’t
@@Z09-z1s *this one understands*
You know he doesn't have a lot of friends and it's the only one social interaction of the month for him, and batman is ruining it for the riddler
@@teamcrossover2483 Ok I hear you
Counterpoint
You're a terrorist
The problem with smart characters in stories is the fact they need to be written by smart people. Most writers are good with scenery, emotion, and drama but they struggle with creating a believable smart thinker.
It’s not necessarily that the writers are stupid or lazy. It’s mostly time constraints. It takes time to create a complex mind. It’s not a process that is quick.
Poignant comment
true and let's be honest real smart people arent allways the most eady to a get along with and b in touch with whats popular and works for the story. so when you can make it work great but other times it can be easily too confusing for readers and messy. writing comics is an art form like any other and demands balance and respect. you can't treat it like a product to be rushed out, its a labor of love and geniune pasion to be good and just a wee bit of luck. its hard man.
@@WonderWolfie99your comment is equal parts ironic and genuinely inspiring. You're talking about comics, one of the most serialized media formats... Crunch culture and selling out for brands/products has been in the DNA of comics forever... Yet you speak with such passion, and desire for integrity in the world of comics. I seriously hope you work in the world of comics some day. You will make it better for everyone who enjoys them, even if just a little bit.
thanks your too kind im not in the field but should i ever end up in that world ill keep this in mind. for now im just a fan and appreciator of the ritch history risks taken and deeper meaning theese characters and stories have on us and what goes into that magic, plus i hate to see a good art form die due to devisive politics and incompatce. @@salmon_wine
A smart character with an ego like Riddler, at least. It's really easy to write a smart character who is actually applying their intelligence practically, because usually they prioritize simplicity, efficiency, and logic.
One of, imo, the best Riddler stories comes from the Justice League Action cartoon where Riddler is a detective since he got tired of being sent to Arkham and thought 'if that lunkhead Batman can be a hero, surely I can be a better one'.
Batman's been kidnapped by the Joker and Wonder Woman and Green Arrow aren't getting anywhere with the video Mr J left. Riddler swans in, says he's the best man for the job...and with the lasso of truth on him vents that he hates that Joker's stealing his gimmick, even if he's not a villain any more.
After solving a few clues they wind up at the Art Museum and there's Joker with Batman in a death trap...the only way to turn it on is if Riddler answers a riddle 'What has four eyes, but cannot see?"
Riddler is more confused than anything and says he obviously won't say it, with Joker going "Sure...you probably don't know it anyway."
This gets Ed's ego in a tizzy and he compulsively yells the answer, because he refuses to have anyone think he can't solve a riddle
Turns out this entire scheme was less about killing Batman and more about Joker messing with Riddler. Why?...he's mad Ed stole his pudding cup the last time they were both in Arkham together.
thats beautiful, and a perfect synopsis of eddies character
I like that episode. Honestly, if Riddler is involved, I'll most likely be into it.
pretty sure it was a donut but still, good comment
@@Forlorn_Dusks isn’t it Mississippi
It was actually a doughnut that Ed ate
"The Riddler is smart, the writers need to be smart"
and that's the problem.
and if anything, the writers should be smarter. it would take a while for that to happen, huh
it's true, riddles are difficult to write. And tie in perfectly with the plot.
This comment reminds me of the show bones, that portrait everyone with a masters degree as a mega autist, while acting like idiots
yeah. In fact when Tom King tried to write Riddler it was a disaster.
@@suleymanbabak1973please put a warning next time you write that name, some of us have PTSD
This comic read like House of Leaves. You can only read the book how YOU want to read it. There are so many red herrings, puzzles, traps, and terrifying little holes to fall into but you can persevere and brute force the book. Huggbees, get that book! You would love the Labyrinth Chapter.
do not mention that accursed artifact.
it's very confusing
babies first house of leaves
sorcery books would be good
That's what I thought lol
8:48
Hugbees: “Who likes orphans?”
Also Hugbees: *Reading a choose your own adventure comic where you are an orphan*
Also also Hugbees: *his favorite superhero is an orphan*
“That’s my secret, I hate myself”
An orphan who collects other orphans
@@spookhyskeleton ~orphanman
@@spookhyskeleton this reads like a cards against humanity answer
I always wondered why Riddler wasn’t his arch nemesis. You would think a person who poses Riddles is the arch nemesis of the world’s greatest detective.
as Huggbees said in this very video, writing good Riddler stories requires a lot more work than good stories for most other Batman villains.
Hell, Batman rarely gets to earn that "world's greatest detective" title for the same reason, instead he might just be called it because it's a title he's had for decades, but then he'll do something stupid, falling for obvious traps(because we need tension in the scene), or missing vital clues that were in plain sight(because we can't have the plot end yet), or worse yet, the writers just have him "solve" mysteries with a leap of (un)logic to try and make him look smart.
@RipOffProductionsLLC exactly. Batman and Riddler are characters that can only exist within the skills of the right writers. Everything outside of that isn't written to the very high bare minimum of the characters.
Iron man, Spider-Man, Braniac, and other super geniuses in comics have other viable gimmicks for them to rely upon, but Batman and Riddler are beings of pure wit.
@@DZ-DizzyDumm Batman can work without his wit, or at least with only minimal amount of it, a writer can get away with him just being physically fit and equipped with all his fancy tools and gadgets, while only making him strictly average in terms of his intelligence, as long as his strong moral convictions and other such personality traits are still there...
But the Riddler is make it or brake it purely on how smart and clever he is, which is the whole point of this conversation.
Yeah, these other replies have a point; characters like the Riddler can only be done justice with a sufficiently complex plot line, while stuff like the Joker is far easier to do decently.
After all, you know what they say;
_“Anyone can run a circus, but it takes a great mind to build a labyrinth.”_
(And by ‘they’ I mean ‘me, a few minutes ago’)
Riddler is too similar to batman, too logical. The Joker represents Batmans antithesis.
"There's an average Florida resident, and a man in a super suit ready to kick your ass in the same room, and you decide to go for a box on the floor?!"
This line absolutely destroyed me.
Especially as someone who picked the box first round
Its accurate though-Floridian
If you become an alpha similar to how silverbacks grow larger and silver, we grow scaly
in my defense i thought he would take the contents of the box and leave not read it in front of them
I mean… why not go for the box? ;)
I don't care how many times I would die, I would always go for the box
Unless it's deciding between a boat and a box
You know how they say "the only way to win is not to play?" That comic is so brilliant because the only way to win really is not to play - to not even take the options presented to have Batman circumvent the puzzles, because those are still options being presented *by the game.* Choosing those options is still playing by the rules, and playing by the rules is how you lose. It's so perfectly meta and I love it.
Another cool detail about this comic I noticed, whenever you play through the game Riddler has in store, the comic refers to Batman as "The" Batman. Not just Batman, specifically "The Batman." As if the Batman you are taking the role of is some sort of entity, a single Batman out of many, something besides the genuine, real Batman.
And once you stop playing and start reading through like a comic book, that phrase of "The Batman" disappears. It's the real way Batman would go through this situation. The genuine article at work. The one, the only, "Batman."
In other words, the comic itself is saying that if Batman were to play Riddler's game, were to jump through all these hoops, and to lock himself in unavoidable death, it wouldn't really be him.
Tl;dr: With one word, the game distinguishes between you pretending to be Batman and Batman's real methods.
you are.... so clever. respect fr
Wow
this is really cool, genuinely would be a baller piece of meta. so that’s why i hate to say that “The Batman” is just the proper/full title for him. comics use “The Batman” a lot when they’re talking abt him in 3rd person, and just “Batman” in 2nd/1st person, usually in dialogue (also see: “The Joker”/“Joker”, “The Riddler”/“Riddler”, “The Penguin”/“Penguin”, etc.). “The Batman” is his title, “Batman” is his name.
14:44 Panel 36 disproves all of this. It'd be a nice detail were it true, but no. Not all the panels follow this.
it could also bee seen as the ridderl's narration or perspective, as villains would indeed sometimes call him the batman. or maybe I am reading too mcuh into it.
It's amazing in how Batman's rogue gallery tells us more about him:
The Joker reflects how Batman is always down for a good joke
Two-Face his sick sense of style
The Penguin how he prefers cold climate
Poison Ivy how big of an avid pot user/supporter he is
Riddler reflects Batman's gamer mentality
Bane his love for mexican food
Harley his service top mindset
And Catwoman is to showcase his furry side
This
At first I was like "yeah I love that about them!" Then I was "what?" And finally "ah yes how could I have ever thought of it any other way this is the perfect interpretation"
@@doctortomato9520 i mean they're all true
Batman being a service top sure is a sentence I was trying not to read but had to acknowledge
That’s not true at all
I loved the Riddler in the Arkham Games. (Even thought the trophies in Arkham Knight are hard) I feel like the writers really aced the narcissistic and egotistical nerd rather than just a guy in spandex who does riddles. It gives him some background, like how he was bullied and grew up with no friends. I think when written well, this character is very compelling.
I would say the Arkham City ones are harder but only because of those physical challenges that I didn't do well in.
It helps that he was acted perfectly by Wally Wingert. He played him in all 4 Arkham games and I can’t thing of anyone else to play as the Riddler other than Wingert.
I would completely agree with “The Riddler” being one of Batman’s greatest villains but, personally I have a love for Scarecrow which Mr. Bees didn’t bring up at all, it made me a little sad he didn’t get recognition, other than that another great vid
Well, Scarecrow goes along with what he says. He is Batman's fear, not only his own but the one he inflicts, while batman makes criminals fear him, Scarecrow does the same to his enemies, be them evil or good.
He is definitely up there, all batman villains are good
I think that scarecrow is the best villan in batman arkam asylum game series and is intimidating as all hell.
I hope I don’t die at the end of this comment
Uh
☠️
Riddler is a great Batman villain because Batman was originally coined as “the worlds greatest detective” in the comics. Instead of just fighting the riddler Batman actually had to solve a crime.
Something interesting of note
In Riddler's game, when you're close to the plans, suddenly he has a power suit? Something fishy is definitely going on.
And every bad end results in Batman's humiliation and dying horribly. Not just "oh Riddler got away" or "Riddler blew up a building but Batman is alive to fight another day". No, he gets _sliced to pieces multiple times with that same dumb look_
Also, Killer Croc isn't really a factor in the final ending and, in fact, he only shows up once you take one of the first paths, and if you take the path pretty much labeled "don't play Riddler's game", the joke-y ending is probably Batman's most humiliating, as if Riddler is teasing you for still being in his game despite _choosing_ not to play.
Batman feels weird in every result that involves playing the game. The only time Batman feels like Batman is when you don't treat it like a game and treat it like a story.
Kinda makes me wonder how an adaptation of this story would work, assuming it was even possible.
the only way I could imagine it is like uh, netflix's interactive thing. You'd get the options to choose, but waiting it out would just let you watch it like a normal film.
@@juicebox3495 I don't know about Netflix, but this would actually be pretty simple to do with a DVD or Blu Ray: Assemble all 40 chapters, and at the end of each one, loop the footage asking for a selection on where to go next... Except, if someone just pushes "Next Chapter" at specific points, it'll jump to the hidden "Bat-path"
You would need a point 'n' Click 'em up that would showcase the game. Add a little meta dialogue for Batman each time the player gets him killed. After all the scenarios you then let the player take the "non-game" option
@@ProcGenNPCs Or better: Icons that asks you to press them in order to "Play the Riddler's game", to be able to trample over it, you need to press things such as doors and stuff, to press the elements of the background... or just let Batman decide himself.
the problem is it's not a story, it's a game. It's a game in which the theme is not to play games when lives are at stake, and the theme is conveyed through deceiving the player about how the rules work. An example of an actual videogame pulling this off would be undertale, in a very different way obviously.
It's funny because the modern conception of The Joker was actually largely stolen from Frank Gorshin's Riddler: the constant laughter, the singular obsession with Batman, heck, he even had a cane once. Originally, Joker was just a gangster with a clown face.
Frank gorshin was the best live action riddler and it's not even close
The Riddler, of all the Batman villains and possibly of all DC villains, he's probably most versatile in terms of design. Every incarnation of The Riddler, be it comics, movies, cartoons, shows, video games, whatever, his look is drastically different but people can still go "oh yeah, that's The Riddler" as long as up to three major traits remain. Green, a question mark, and sometimes a bit of purple. Sometimes he looks dapper and acts more like your traditional Bond villain, sometimes he's a lunatic in a spandex suit covered in question marks, some versions has the cane or sometimes it's a staff that looks like a question mark, sometimes not, he could look like he crawled out of a meth-lab in Florida, he could look like he shops exclusively at Hot Topic, sometimes one version takes inspiration from a few of the previous versions, the newest one (the Battinson one) is wearing a bondage mask and looks like he would stab me for my change under an overpass. While it is true all the Batman villains, a lot of comic book villains and characters, go through major design changes to suit the times, settings, and overall story. I'm just saying Riddler has the widest variety, and that's part of the mystery of him. The riddle of him, so to speak. What will he look like next, well that's the riddle.
I nearly agree with everything you just said. All Riddler costumes/outfits have a sense of theatricality for the most part.
In the 60's he dressed as zany as the rest of the rogues, just mirroring the comicbook Riddler for preference. (BUT, without Frank Gorshin, we wouldn't be having a Riddler in a suit since he conceptualized it!)
In BtAS, he dressed up more as a gamesman who wanted recognition of his brilliance, only to be fired by his Boss AND denied the royalties of his game, making him bitter and wanting for revenge.
In Forever, he was similar to BtAS but also still attributing to the comics/60's version since this was a pretty cartoon-esque world of Gotham.
In the underrated TV show from 2005, The Batman, the Riddler was brilliantly complex who knew he had to have a costume to stand out from the rest of mundane criminals for his heist to work.
The latest Riddler from what I've seen from the trailers, (I haven't seen the movie since the local theaters are still closed) he's very modern but still very much a showman while trying to conceal his identity, from a more realistic perspective since not everyone can afford a custom green suit and mask. Kind of like Batman, making a point to the symbol rather than the man behind the mask, but with a budget. BTW, it's a Cold War winter mask. I'm guessing Riddler bought or found it.
@@AmberGemnia not gonna spoil the movie but with your take on the new riddler I'd say you're onto something... as long as you didn't watch that joker deleted scene. if you did than I feel like you are the riddler and I just solved your puzzle by not playing your game
@@AmberGemnia I really like that you mentioned the 2005 The Batman show.
Clayface was great. And so was dave.
@@notapplicable6985 I know. That show was totally underrated! Had high hopes for Hugo Strange until that alien story arc. But overall, it was a very different take on everyone, in one of the best ways possible.
@@notapplicable6985 to both of you, it was 2004, and I agree that it was a good show.
The new movie does an interesting and pretty unique thing with the Riddler: he's still campy and cheesy, but in a very modern, believable way that tilts him a little more towards the 'torture room' grim dark version of him you described at the end. The thing is, it's clear he's *trying* to be this grimdark 'I am the puppeteer of your fate let's play a game' sort of character, when in actuality he is a massive dork who's lonely and searching for a sense of community and an inflation of his own ego. He's incredibly smart, genuinely dangerous, and makes a good foil to batman, but he's also putting on an act. In reality, the Riddler is kind of a loser, desperate to show off how smart he is to the city of Gotham and have them acknowledge his genius because he's lonely and pathetic. I think it worked extremely well for the tone of the movie, and this movie is by FAR the best iteration of Batman I think we've ever gotten in film: he's actually a *detective* in this one, and most of his success comes from solving the puzzle, not punching dudes. That said, I dunno if this version of the Riddler is going to line up with the sort of thing you specifically love about him based on this video.
*That said, I DANO if this version of the Riddler is going to line up with the sort of thing you specifically love about him based on this video.
"but in a very modern, believable way" sets off more alarms in my head than you could ever fathom
@@deplorabledegenerate2630 The Riddler's activity and plan in the new movie revolve somewhat heavily around social media, which didn't exist when the Riddler was first created, but it makes sense given that his character is so driven by ego and a desire for external validation. If someone with the personality of the Riddler existed today, I don't think it would be difficult to imagine them using livestreams and the internet to fuel their narcissistic dogma.
I understand that 'modern and believable' sounds like a shitty watchmojo buzzword line, but I didn't use them for no reason.
If you don't like the direction they took his character that's perfectly fine; not everyone will, and the Batman mythos has so much room for reiteraton and reinterpretation (from campy and silly to grimdark edgelord stuff and everything inbetween) that there's no way every fan is going to like a more modernized 'what if batman but in current day and 100% serious' version of the mythos.
I do think, however, if that's the type of Batman a creator is going for, then the Riddler's interpretation in this movie fits that about as well as it possibly can.
@@bakuhakudraws5603 you are partially right, the concern for buzzwords were there, but not my main one.
The social media thing makes sense, but it being believable... eeeeeh does the Riddler use Nord, Express, or Surfshark as his VPN of choice?
It is fine. He can be a super hacker. This is a super hero movie and a little science fantasy should be expected.
I just recall about ten years ago watching an old Batman TAS video wherein the caped crusader fought Poison Ivy and being Poison Ivy she had a giant plant monster.
The most upvoted comment was someone complaining about how unrealistic that was and how the Christopher Nolan Batman completely changed things and how comic books need to grow up and stop being so juvenile.
"Believable" is a much better term than "realistic", because we are talking about a rich orphan who dresses up as a bat and beats people up with ninjistsu and James Bond gadgets.
It is okay if Batman punches a killer robot but some people disagree.
@@deplorabledegenerate2630 oh absolutely; that's what I meant with my comment about Batman being able to be iterate/reinterpreted in so many ways. He's never going to be 100% 'realistic', but some interpretations lean towards keeping things more grounded, while others go for more campy/goofy and really lean into the inherent silliness of the premise.
The Nolan movies, for better or worse, very FIRMLY established 'gritty realism' as the ideal that the film interpretation of the character are shooting for, at least for a long while. Honestly I'd say The Riddler is one of the hardest Batman villains to make work if you're going for that style due to him being so inherently goofy. I think this is a great version of The Riddler for this grittier more down-to-earth style of batman, but it's definitely not going to be to everyone's tastes, especially if they prefer a more campy/silly style for Batman.
I actually really liked The Batman. The way The Riddler sets up this narrative for Batman to unravel and follow really shows using his intelligence to try to influence people. He isn't just trying to enact his own schemes with rhyming couplets, he's actually trying to mold Batman into an ally. That was a strong play and I hope we get more of these movies because I want to see what happens next.
true yeah but I hated how his plan was basically be batman's q anon mr online anti govermen cyber conspiricy theorist vioelently brirng down gotham by uniting the crazy's and pretending your doing something righteous that felt way to political and modern, to be batman stories work better when they stay in the timeless fantasy realm.
Too bad Batman fails the whole movie
@@Burritobib It's waaaaay more compelling than someone who just does everything perfectly and wins every time though
@@Burritobibit's pretty deliberately meant to be a batman year one story, he's no where near as experienced as he's normally depicted.
I loved the batman because Im starved for good DC films. It was a cut above a lot of the other DC movies like black atom and justice league. I really enjoyed it because for all its flaws you could tell it had passion and artistic vision.
If I am not mistaken, the writers for Batman: TAS rarely used the Riddler as a main baddie in the story because he was hard to write. Like you said, it just comes off as child riddles and camp, but the episodes that had him as a frontline antagonist actually had some unique brain teasers, of which it did stump Batman in a few scenarios. One of which was when the Riddler wrote a number on a chalkboard and Batman recognized the address but failed to account for when Riddler turned the chalkboard on its other side, flipping the number to an entirely different address when read upside-down.
Very rare. Riddler's only used in 3 episodes in a series that had over 50 episodes. Ra's al Ghul was used more often than Riddler. Though Riddler did get some of the best episodes like "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?" because Riddler ended up winning in the end. Batman was able to stop him from killing his old boss Mockridge like he planned, but Riddler got away and the experience destroyed Mockridge's peace of mind; leaving him a traumatized nervous wreck.
I did really like the third Riddler episode where he’s pretending to be done with crimes. The scene where Riddler self reflects on how he’ll inevitably be caught and sent to prison again after speaking with Batman is probably my favorite scene of him in the show
Tbh, honestly? I realy do think that many writers are simply intimidated by riddler and his potential. Many times, when they try to write smart characters, just downplaying everyone elses inteligense in the story to make big brains appear smarter. I kind of notised it being used in death note.
I like the riddler in the new movie, but he doesn’t really conform to your ideal. He’s definitely a bit closer to the “mr puzzles” type you described. With regard to the puzzles being solvable they’re a mixed bag, after a second watching I noticed some we’re definitely solvable and fun but others weren’t possible to solve. I liked it overall.
Riddler in the new movie looks like Michael Reeves tbh.
Me and my friends kept laughing about how he looks like Call me Carson and Michael Reeves had a weird clone
I disagree, spoilers here but in the scene where Batman has Riddler in custody and is interrogating him, Riddler talks about how he was playing a game with Batman and he actually thought Batman was helping him. Batman realized he messed up, because he was treating it like puzzles he was waiting each one for another clue but in reality he was just helping the Riddler by not trying to jump ahead and stop him and just playing his game.
@@Directordk97 That's also how I saw it. I don't even watch batman much and i saw this movie. When The Riddler said "You haven't figured it out yet?" it makes you pause and think "Wait, we didn't win yet? But what did we miss?" Then it loops back to the murder weapon from the very beginning. Even at the end of the movie Batman didn't win, which shows Batman's flaws as a character and how The Riddler is still a big threat in the city because you still don't know how many more steps ahead he is.
But also Batman plays riddlers game and he even says we did this together. Riddler made the game so that he could finish it with the Batman’s person abilities and have him realize his hypocrisy. It was smart
When you were reading the first bits of the book where you were playing the Riddler's game, I knew something was off due to how stupid it was being. The orphan ending made me realize that the story was being told in the way the Riddler would tell it. He was making fun of batman the whole time. When you went to the part where Batman was getting the upper hand, the writing and the dialogue got noticeably more intelligent and made more sense. Stellar writing from a comic book.
"He is currently UnKiller Croc, which will always leave him annoyed" almost reads like something out of a slightly darker twist on the 60s Batman. Like a clue he would find that would lead him to the solution that the "unmaze" isn't truly a maze at all
Another good sign is the puzzle piece endings. The first time around, it makes sense either way. But after you know the puzzle piece is an explosive, both sounds very much like Batman being stupid for no reason, like him randomly experimenting with a thing he suspects is suspicious. This is what he hopes Batman would do, because he wants to be smarter than Batman.
Lmao he predicted the Riddler being a crossover between Jigsaw and Zodiac
Exactly! He'll be so excited.
He released this video after the movie came out and acknowledged that fact. It’s likely he heard it somewhere and not predicted that
@@connormcilraith8190 yeah, this video came out on the 24th, and the movie released on the 4th with much hype(he uses footage from the film) so
I wouldn’t doubt that he’d heard about the Riddler in the film
@@connormcilraith8190 r/woosh
He didn’t predict it, you wheelchair. He said that’s how the riddler was in the telltale game… Ya know, the game that The Batman movie blatantly ripped off in it’s Riddler design….
I like how Riddler’s kills in the movie were thematic. For example, he kills a guy by using the rat-head-cage-thing from the book: 1984, because…
1. He wants Batman to reveal the rat that caused a certain drug bust
2. He’s hunting down Gotham’s elite officials who had essential ties in the drug bust, and by using the trap from 1984 it shows how something larger is at play and that he’s trying to reveal the corrupt oppressive society that envelopes Gotham City.
This is like George Orwells book, 1984
That pro pic goes so hard bro
I think the meta part of Riddler is done well in the Arkham games. Something I really like about the Riddler Trophies in those games which don't get talked about, is that, like in this comic, in-universe, you aren't meant to actually survive them. After a certain point you're no longer able to get trophies due to them being seemingly impossible with the previous game's gadgets. This is intentional since The Riddler will design the Riddler Trophies around the equipment that he *knows* you have. And when you get new gadgets to do the impossible ones, he gets very noticeably upset and accuses you of "cheating" due to getting new tools to beat those obstacles instead of sticking to his ruleset.
There's also certain parts where if you stand still for too long at certain puzzles, The Riddler will say something along the lines of, "What's the matter, Detective? Are you stuck? Don't tell me you're gonna go look up the answer on the internet!" Which I thought was funny.
I always liked it when Riddler was treated as a meta character that plays with the norms of how a story in their medium is told.
Funnilly enough, I found that the funny video about batman googling the answer to the riddler's riddles right in front of the guy was the best way to deal with that baddie. Playing by the riddler's rules is a good way for him to get what he wants, be it blowing up something, killing the batman, or even feeding orphans to a hungry killer croc. Nothing says you have to play by the rules that he sets because as that video states, he is a madman and a terrorist. You don't have to lower yourself to his level and play his games fairly, you just need to focus on taking him down.
"So that means you're allowed to cheat?"
"...in every conceivable way."
"Pencil Lead!"
“Counterpoint- you’re a terrorist.”
I've actually been irked by stuff like that.
The idea is that Riddler makes up his own riddles. And maybe occasionally throws out a relatively well known one as a joke. Are the plot relevant ones we hear well known ones the writers looked up? Sure. But writing good stories is hard work, and a good Riddler story even harder. So we just suspend our disbelief on that area.
Solid jj?
The idea of hiding the good ending inside the pages is actually amazingly clever and fits the Riddler as a character so well
What's even more genius is that the "make your own path/story" idea is hinted during the explosive puzzle. When you followed the rules of the puzzle, batman died. When you tried to break the rules, batman died. But when you "make your own way through" batman can continue. The only way for you to beat the puzzle is to NOT PLAY THE GAME.
We all know Crazy Quilt is the ultimate fiend.
Nah it’s egg head hands down
And surprisingly strong
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who knows who that is. Lmfao
Calendar man
Polka Dot Man
The new Batman movie is good and I did like the riddler’s plot. It definitely tried to have a deep hidden plot underneath the initial plot, but it wasn’t on the same level as this comic.
Still tho, I liked the direction it went in.
Same. I think it was "dark" and all like they all are...but what else could he have done? He set up a elaborate ruse to show that the top brass if Gotham were evil. He knew ******** was the rat and where the money was going but he took everyone involved on a ride to see if someone "good" would step up . He was also convinced Batman was on a similar path to his. For a modern take I give it a legit B+ and the movie overall I enjoyed very much. Not as good as TDK but better than Rises or anything with Batfleck. Think it's either the second or third best Batman movie.
@@LudaChez The best batman movie was obviously the Lego Batman Movie.
I love the Riddler. His introduction in the old animated series was so good.
Especially that end line from Batman with: "How much worth is a good nights rest? Now there's a riddle for you."
It shows how great Edward Nigma actually is, and how much he impressed Batman with his first ever appearance.
And I love when they write him as more of an Anti-Hero. Someone willing to go overboard, but also helping Batman on some occasions, because of mutual respect for each other's intellect.
I like this more genuine kind of video where it’s clearly something you have a passion about. But you still have the iconic hugbees moments and humor. Great vid man
While the anti-villain aspects of Mr.Freeze always had him as my favorite villain Riddler is the best. Death traps, clues, a costume with style, and a inherent need to taunt Batman all make him a fun villain to read. He’s also potentially the least crazy considering he did a stint as a hero.
@@paemonyes8299 If Riddler's a gamer, would he be able to stop Mr. Freeze?
@@jindo5 Did you think a gamer would stop Mr. Freeze? surely, even Batman wouldn't think so :^)
Actually really enjoyed the Edward nygma portrayed in the live action “Gotham” tv show, I thought it followed his psychology and character development perfectly, punctually, and often enough to hold the attention and spark the attention for nygma fans, I was saddened by the internet’s annoyance for nygma and thought the negative comments felt more practical being used on brainiac or somebody similarly hollow/shallow character wise
Finally someone mentions gotham
I LOVED GOTHAM'S RIDDLER!!!
Cory michael smith is such a good riddler i love him so much
I love the idea of this comic. Of course people who know the Riddler would know the only way to really win is to not play, but we as the audience get suckered in by this new idea of a "choose your own adventure" Batman story. It takes advantage of the audience as a means to have fun and it makes the reveal of the solution actually more fun. The failure leads to greater satisfaction as well as giving us the answers we need. The only way to fully enjoy this comic is to experience everything. The failures, subtle clues, jumping around, and finding out the solution is doing what you normally do. Reading a comic book the way it's intended is how Batman wins. Because it's always how Batman wins.
I also like that when riddler wins, it says Edward Nigma wins, not The riddler wins. Subtly showing that riddler just has to have everyone know how smart he is
nigma balls
I will say The Batman(2022)'s Riddler is inherently and egotistical villain, and in the end his masterplan seems counterintuitive to his motives, but that's because his motives were never anything more than an excuse to emphasize his ego. I think that's the most important part of the Riddler, that he's a giant egotist.
So they got him somewhat right then?
I love this.
That thread through the maze.
How people cheat in choose your own adventures. If you can't find your way back, if you can't cheat the game, you'll just get lost and get the bad ending, over, and over, and over again.
When I read Choose Your Own Adventure books, I would put bookmarks at every choice and only take them out once I've gone down each choice. That way, I always know when there is a choice I haven't tried yet.
Also a bit of a hint for all of you, [18:14]
The first panel page indicates that _"To Chase Riddler, go to Panel 3"_ and _"To Avoid his Death Trap, go to Panel 5"._ The correct answer is to actually add the numbers together and go to that page. That's why Batman found the backdoor entrance in Panel 8. Once he found the secret to Riddler's Games. He just needs to keep pushing forward and outsmart this menace even further.
Big brain moment
Unfortunately doing that again at panel 8, would bring you to a death at 30. I really wished their was some consistent logic to what panels we jumped to when not mazing. Just skipping till you find it doesn't really feel like outsmarting, but just entering godmode.
@@covereye5731 wouldn’t the consistent logic be not to follow the rules of jumping around, but instead just go forward like a normal comic? The numbers seems to be like a little hint that you might be on to something, before dying and failing, kinda like the Riddlers hint to Batman on the importance of the map, only for it to be a death trap
@@magimariJY If you read it like a normal comic, you encounter many death panels before the one were Batman progresses.
@@covereye5731 it might be a stretch, but couldn’t you say that part of Riddler’s surprise in panel 8 was because Batman circumvented all the death panels of which we saw?
Riddle me this, Buttman; if Quizzes are Quizzical, what are tests?
I died laughing thanks I needed it xD
Tentacles?
They're testing my patience, much like *you* riddler!
Testicle
heheh, thanks, i needed a laugh buddy
I fell in love with the riddler as a character with “The Batman” considering I’ve been a huge Paul Dano fan for a while. I love how they made it so that he could do the same things any of the other villains can (cliché blowing stuff up killing hostages) but without having to do much of the dirty work, he used batman as a tool to achieve what he wanted. It also made his character more realistic giving him the motive of him “being justice” while batman was “vengeance” seeing Batman transform from a warning to criminals to a beacon of hope to the citizens was incredible. It brought the two of them into a new light even if it wasn’t quite the same as the rest of the franchise. The best part was Riddler thinking Batman was on his side through most of it because he was cleaning up the city and it was justice, just not the same ideal of justice Batman has envisioned. Since that movie I’ve really gotten into the Riddler and it’s so cool to see him not portrayed as comic relief to make other villains look better. :)
This was eye opening. Growing up, I can confirm that I’ve always seen The Riddler as “Joker 2: Electric Buttplug” with very surface level thought put into his plot, and no cleverness at all, and I realized it’s problem was far too “chaos, but with hints” and not enough “skullfuck your mind with a question while you’re actively being misled and deceived”, just as real riddles are supposed to be. I truly now fully respect Riddler. Thank you funny man, Andies mints.
I liked your comment but have to disagree. The animated series did great with the character because they highlighted a core aspect of the Riddler. His ego. Even his vengeance against Mockridge is to some degree motivated by wounded pride that he a genius had been duped and cheated by a garden variety corporate shark. His inability to resist the thrill of "the game" and longing to prove himself by beating Batman in Riddler's own words, "the only one worthy of the game". It's a very different dynamic from the Joker who just wants to sow chaos and fight Batman. Riddler actively wants to best him and waste him and nearly blows him up.
I bought the comic to attempt the riddle. I got stuck after trying all routes, but once you mentioned that the second panel had the credits and to give the authors their dues, it clicked. It's well designed because you have to commit to not playing by the riddlers rules to win. The second you start playing by the rules, you lose. Honestly this is the beat designed "choose your own adventure" I've read, though I guess I've only read 2 CYOA books and they were Goosebumps CYOA.
I really enjoyed The Batman, I liked that a major theme is him realizing "Fear isn't a way to inspire people to be better, it only adds to the greater struggle". I think it's good when Batman has time to reflect, and (GOD FORBID) change his methods while growing and finding some measure of healing. My favorite example of this is in Batman: Mask of The Phantasm, where we see Bruce at his parent's graves saying "I could help in other ways! It just doesn't hurt so bad anymore! It's different now!" and begins pleading as he falls to his knees. "I NEED it to be different now. I didn't count on being happy. Tell me it's okay." That scene does so much in a little over a minute. ANYWAY, I thought it was a good'n. Great video, great comic, great villain.
This comic was excellent, but I was honestly pulled along for the ride you laid out for us. I didn't think I'd be so engaged in a video about the riddler for 28 minutes, but I was! And that's a part of the charm of his stories, isn't it.
It’s legit kinda weird how there aren’t more Batman villains that focus on rivaling his IQ than his power
Cause thats less brainless and for some people less fun than just "Hahah strong guy punches hard but batman punch harder"
Yeah, only 2 comes to mind.
Riddler and Usually The Joker.
Isn't the original version of Bane kind of like this? Though he has strength and smarts
The first problem is, you need to write a character that is smarter than Batman. Most comic writers struggle to even write *Batman* as particularly intelligent and cunning, resorting to "I knew you'd do that!" twists instead.
@@TheRedCap30 Not exactly. He's certainly very intelligent and cunning, but Knightfall was a brutally simple plan: Overwhelm Batman with sheer numbers by freeing and arming Arkham's inmates, and then attack Batman where - and when - he would be weakest: At his home, after running himself ragged cleaning up the city. How he found Batman's identity wasn't a feat of logic, but observation and intuition: He recognized Batman with just a few seconds of observing Bruce Wayne. In all likelyhood, he saw through the Bruce Wayne disguise, partly due to Batman's exhaustion going into the Knightfall arc, but because he had no idea who Bruce Wayne even *was,* and so had no preconceptions for the act to play into.
The Riddler is just like Scarecrow where they spent so much time on his gimmick so many authors forget to make them a character beyond that. Scarecrow isn't just "I want to scare people" and sometimes "Batman sees his fears in me", he's a fully functioning character with wants and needs and in the way Joker is a reflection of Batman's insanity Scarecrow could be a reflection of the fear that Batman instills in criminals on top of reflecting Batman's fears back at him. In that same way Riddler could be a reflection of "The World's Greatest Detective" aspect of Batman.
I remember reading a short batman adventure on my kindle, something my mom had gotten a lot of for free to keep me entertained. Most of them were pretty cheesy, and looking back I think they were just episodes from a Batman series in written form, although I'm not entirely sure.
But there were a couple hidden gems in there. There was one about Catwoman going up to Batman and giving him insider information about what a certain criminal group was going to do, and Batman has to keep getting information from Catwoman about this group while also preventing her from getting away and doing her own crime. It was surprisingly very well done, and it explored Catwoman's and Batman's relationship a lot! There was this one scene where Batman is led to Catwoman's apartment to try and find her, but inside finds a file on the criminal group he was going after, along with a note that said something like "Bat, I'm currently away, so sorry to have missed you. Could you please water my plants? -Cat" to which Batman smiles and waters her plants before continuing his mad dash to catch her.
But that's just one example. There was also a Riddler adventure. This had the added bonus of being a story told by Robin! Batman was missing and Riddler was wreaking havoc, turning off the city's power and letting criminals run around taking advantage of the city's security systems being down. The Bat Signal is still shining in the sky, and people are panicking and getting hurt, and some are doubting Batman, thinking he abandoned them.
Robin has to go on this wild goose chase trying to find Batman because, surprise, Riddler kidnapped him. Every time the Riddler had a clue for Robin, he would shine the Bat Signal into the sky and a major crime would happen, catching the attention of Robin who would find the clue after he made his way over there and stopped the crime. It's actually quite suspenseful because Robin is trying to help as many people as possible from the added chaos, he's getting harassed on the street because people think Batman abandoned them, there are criminals everywhere, and he can't contact anyone because of the power, the only thing he has to go off of is Riddler's riddles and crimes, the longer he took to solve the mystery, the more horrific the crimes got, and he's was in a generally bad spot because his dad is missing.
I remember loving this story and reading it over and over because the Riddler had Robin at the end of his rope, and Robin was trying to solve the mystery of where Batman was, making this a detective story!! The Riddler had basically won, and was just stringing Robin along for the sake of that he CAN! He even accidentally reveals to Robin where Batman was because he wanted to flaunt his victory. Batman turned out to be tied up to the Bat Signal, the very thing that was distracting Robin because every time it shone, a crime took place. So it turned out Batman was being cooked alive against the burning light every time Robin was preoccupied trying to help people.
It's a SUPER good story with a genuinely good twist and possed Riddler as a real threat if it wasn't for his stupid need to flaunt his victory by literally shining it into the night sky. It really sold Riddler to me as a kid and I still enjoy him because of it.
This gives him a good characterization as a "brains over brawn",also in my opinion ,levering on his pride is the key. Joker makes a shield of his not caring,is nice to see an enemy that fails because he gets too engrossed in his own vanity. It makes them an effective villain,to show that it could only be led to defeat itself,which is exactly the trick to use against such a person as Nigma in real life.
The Tower tarot card represented this ,the pride that lead to ones downfall,even i though i would use the term Vanity,which is connected to the desire for validation,something completely different from the Joker 's approach,which listens only to himself.
wow man, i really dont regret diving into this, do you remember what it was from though? would love to read it!
@@backstabber5489 I did a bit of research and it's called "Batman Adventures: Riddle Me This" and it's part of the Batman: Gotham Adventures series!!
Gordon- smells like barbecued bat
The Riddler is definitely a tough character to write well because his very concept is something that takes a clever writer to pull off. To actually build a decent character around that concept is a whole other challenge.
I love how The Riddler's name is litteraly E.Nygma.
Makes my silly brain unreasonably happy for whatever reason
This doesn't just make Riddler a serious threat. It somehow elevates him to making him funnier than the Joker at times
For as bad as the design of the Riddler was in the "The Batman" animated series, I liked the episode where they went over his backstory. He was an up and coming scientist, had a gizmo or gadget or invention or whatever, the tech was stolen away by a corporate big wig or something, he snapped, (admitted to Batman that was his last chance to have never been the Riddler,) and made one of these long riddle mazes out of that big wigs house. It was actually a good time for me as a child.
Yeahh that show was never all bad. even at its worst, it did some logical things. but that look.. he was more the Diddler.
I thought his design always looked a bit too much like the crow. I will admit I don't really remember what I thought of the E man himself prior to watching it but he always looked just a bit too edgy.
I remember that episode, it was his ex-partner who sabotaged it, and once Edward was fired, she sold it to the bigwig, something that he didn't want to do at first.
@@EllaAngeli He's voiced by Robert Englund. I mean he's voiced by Freddy Krueger come on that's awesome!
I refer to him as the Marilyn Manson Riddler.
a cool thing about the choose your own adventure comic thing i realized
when you go along with the riddle batman looses because its playing by riddlers rules, youre basically choosing his way of doing things
when you read it like a comic, batman wins because batman is a comic book hero, its his domain in a way, his way of doing things where hes guarenteed to win.
I will never watch a Batman movie the same way again. I knew that Batman had good villains but this breakdown has changed my perspectives on them entirely
I edit to go further and say that I now believe the Riddler is my favorite Batman villain, closely followed by Mr Freeze (who was supplanted by watching this video)
If we’re talking Batman villains my favorites are the ones that either fuck with Batman mentally or are just bizarre from a gimmick point of view. My top go Scarecrow, Madhatter, Scarface, Killer Moth (because his mission in the Lego game was dope) and Clayface
hehehe sup... *PLANTED*
Honestly, one of my favourite renditions of Riddler is the one from 2004 The Batman. Unfortunately, he was done dirty by only getting three episodes. But in his short time on-screen, he was just so dang original. He had genuine, clever plots, an interesting, empathy-provoking backstory, and frankly, his interactions with Batman were so entertaining. The man even has MOTIVE. Ikr! And guess what? His motive WASN'T riddles! It's wild!
Now, readdressing his and Batman's relationship...
In Riddler's Revenge, he and Batman get stuck in a cargo container at the bottom of Gotham bay together; the two have to work as a team to escape, all while Riddler explains his fairly tragic origin story (spoiler alert: daddy issues).
I would have loved to see more of this team up like in the comics. My favourite versions of our boy Ed is the ones where he and Batman are working as detectives together. Their interactions aren't strained (not counting Bruce's mild irritancy toward Ed), Ed's motivations are true - often aligning with Bruce's own - and they just make an excellent duo. (To paraphrase a personal favourite quote of mine, Riddler to Batman, "Cool car. It's nice to be conscious in it for a change.)
In a different life, I imagine Bruce and Edward could've been friends.
Anyway, that's my rant done XD
Amazing video, by the way!! I'm so glad I'm not alone in the Riddler fan club XD
@@paemonyes8299 Same!
The Batman 2004 was (and still is) my *life blood.* I loved him and I agree, they did him a dirty.
"In a different life, I imagine Bruce and Edward could've been friends".
That, in and of itself, encapsulates how the world of the Rogues Gallery functions. They all are close to Batman, and given a different path, or more appropriately, a *choice* ("There's always a choice"), they become villains, and are seperated from who Batman is and chooses to be. If they allied themselves with Batman, or did the right thing, they would be better than who they are, and even potentially outright friends with Batman.
Freeze is usually the definitive pick people go to for villains that eventually are able to not only cooperate with Batman, but outright will often team up with him, however I think Ethan Bennet Clayface from the greatest Batman show of all time, is a better selection. Ethan was friends with Bruce right from the start, but chose the wrong path, even outside of the extenuating circumstances that left him shattered and left askew. When he turned to ultimately doing the right thing, it wasn't his relationship with Bruce that made him turn, it was realizing what he was doing, and being able to take the knowledge of The Batman and use it to better himself.
@@paemonyes8299
Preach
@@Jonathan-A.C. That's brilliant! I actually adored Ethan's tragic arc. I think 2004 Batman really was so underrated. 100% agree and love the fine line villains had walked to become *villains*.
Thank you so much for the insight!
Riddler's first episode in BTAS, titled If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?, follows this idea of how to make a good Riddler story. He was a game designer who got fired and had the rights to his game stolen from him, so he comes back years later to take revenge on his old boss by creating a real-life replica of the game he created, which just so happens to be about a Theseus's Labyrinth-esque maze full of riddles and puzzles and enemies to defeat. It looks like the way to beat Riddler is to play the game, but that only stalls Batman and Robin further, so they take themselves out of the game and beat Riddler's maze their own way. A reason for the riddles and puzzles is given, and they lead into a larger plot.
The best part is that Riddler still technically wins even after escaping. His old boss now lives in constant fear that his greatest mistake will keep coming back to haunt him, leaving Batman with one last riddle: how much does a good night's sleep cost?
Lol! The “what has 4 legs in the morning .....” part was genuinely the funniest thing I’ve heard in a while.
Glad to see you doing vids on things you have a genuine interest in, makes it so much better
I immediately saw “To first get the plans” and would have chosen that option first. I was even surprised when he didn’t and then more so when he went back without going into the floor. But why did I think that? The angle of the shot. It was in the foreground, as big as Batman. Riddler and Croc were way off to the sides and smaller as if in the background. My eye was first drawn to Batman, and then the chest.
I agree but I think the idea is that by intentionally making it obvious it triggers your brain to be suspicious. Like wouldn’t the riddler want you to go for the obvious thing?
@@campbell9825 There's also the fact that whichever villain you go for first, Batman is always outnumbered. This means that he'll be even more outnumbered if he just goes for the chest. You won't even register the plans as a viable option because you already know how the game plays at this point.
Frank Gorshin as Riddler was AMAZING though. He was chewing scenery and he was a very worthy adversary to Batman. I think he was the REAL nemesis of Batman '66 and the Joker was just a second banana.
I think The Riddler could work amazingly well like someone who's well aware of all the tropes and expectations any regular person would usually pick up from general media, and twisting them to be an elaborate deathtrap with no solution
until you stop to think for yourself
A good villain brings out the best of a hero
I’ve always felt that Zack Snyder is the ultimate Batman villain.
I mean…
You don’t really call Amazo, The Legion of Doom, Starro, Darkseid, etc Batman villains, moreso villains of the Justice Leagus
I bet Zach Galifianakis would be a pretty good one
@@Galarticuno I think hes saying that Zack Snyder writes batman terribly and should not be allowed to write superhero movies. Which he shouldn't.
The Riddler is the sole reason I became a comic book fan. Seeing him finally get this much praise and recognition just brings a smile to my face. And thanks for the recommendation! I played it blind and it took me a LONG time to figure it out! Such a brilliantly written comic. I got the same feeling I did when I played the Arkham games where you have to deal with the Riddler's deathtraps. And even there, if you play by Riddler's rules, you lose! That's the point of the Riddler. You need to figure out what his rules are and find a way to avert them. Riddler only figures out outcomes to his own plans. He's literally that egotistical.
It sounds to me like that "99 amazing riddles" book needs to be a real thing in your merch store.
I breathe with half the charm
Yet I gather the most yarn
I see all and know all
But I can't do a darn
I only have a single twink
Yet I have all the kinks
What am I?
@@exotic1405
Me.
@@exotic1405 You know I do feel bad that all those orphans are going to have such a bad day, as I have no clue. See I have a whole different way of not playing the Riddler's game.
I like how every modern version of the Riddler has to have all his riddles be edgy. Imagine if in The Batman the Riddler was just like "What has a face and two hands but no arms or legs?"
Is it a clock
i know! its every video game final boss!
Geodude!
A Nintendo boss!
@@rawfermews4186 Only if you're past a certain age. clocks now have no hands :(
You hit the problem of writing the Riddler well on the head: It's hard to write a genius character who has a skill set you don't have. If you try to fake it, it tends to go down poorly.
My favorite depiction of him was in Gotham Girls, where he's trying to play it straight by using his intelligence for detective work. But even they couldn't really do much except write run on sentences to show how fast he thinks (the conclusion he draws at lightning speed was less than impressive. It was basically the most obvious conclusion.)
By the way, that comic sounds awesome. I love choose your own adventures, and as I was listening to all the ways Batman dies in the death trap, I was thinking how that was such a standard trope for choose your own adventures that it really wouldn't have been obvious to anyone treating it as such that something was wrong until they exhausted all options, like you did. Some of the ones I've read don't even bother to use logic, either- you die just because that wasn't the right option. There's no indication why it wasn't the right option, but next time, choose the right option. Try again!
I want to buy this now, even if I did spoil the ending for myself.
"I have a giant ego" - Huggbees is Riddler, confirmed.
He's got the voice spot on
You had a picture of Ted Cruz for "The Zodiac Killer." I find that hilarious, and you have earned a modicum of respect.
I don't usually read a ton of comics, but when you said "choose your own adventure," I had to check it out. Interactive "choose your path" style books were always my favorite as a kid. I loved trying to figure out the correct path. This was such a fantastic twist on the rules of those games, and it fits the Riddler so perfectly!
The long awaited sequel. Thanks, mr. Bees
Where are first part?
My personal favorite Riddler comic technically doesn't count, as it's just the Riddler talking about how good the Silver Age was and how depressing the Bronze Age was. ("When Is A Door" from Secret Origins Special #1)
"You look around here these days, it's all different. It's all changed. The Joker's killing people, for God's sake! Did I miss something? Was I away when they changed the rules?"
Joker didn't kill people originally? He just talked about batman's boners?
@@Fuck_handles Originally, the Joker *was* a killer, and a reference to The Man Who Laughs, when he first appeared back in the 30s. That changed in the Silver Age, as the Comics Code had very strict controls on the level of violence inflicted on human beings. This had lasted, in one form or another, for quite a while. Batman: The Animated Series had it so Joker couldn't kill *anyone*, initially - his *one* kill in Mask of the Phantasm was his first on-screen victim since Batman (1989). The comics had already moved back towards giving him a body count, but it was usually individuals, specific targets. Not mass-murder.
@@watchm4ker interesting, and imo the silver age version is very stupid since his whole(more like most important)thing is being absolutely f-ing insane...anyway thanks for explaining!
0:07 Why's Mr. Freeze looking so fresh here?
He’s not fresh,
He’s frozen
To me, Riddler stories, should be written like a mystery that needs to be solved. Because what is a riddle wrapped if not wrapped in a mystery inside... E. Nygma.
I see there being two, perhaps three, good Riddler stories.
1. Classic campy scenario where one riddle leads to the next, Carmen Sandiego style.
2. Genuine mystery where there may be a riddle as a calling card, but the clues to what actually happened are scattered about. Perhaps with flashbacks to certain Chekhov's guns.
3. Greater scope villain where the Riddler is ALWAYS one step ahead of Batman, 'You may have saved the orphanage, but the cybervirus I modified will already be wracking your super computer systems Batman' or 'You might have caught me, but within moments your secret identity will be revealed to all of Gotham'. And it's only due to Batman 'skipping' a riddle, to think of his own path rather than follow the bread trail of clues left for him to follow.
As a bonus, you can even mix and match these as you see fit.
The new Batman has barely any “I don’t wanna see this part” in it, however the riddler is somewhat between what you said he may of been, sure he has “jokes” but he also does some serious mental insane patient stuff, some of the puzzles are solvable, but only by Batman, while others you just need to think on the tools shown and what can be used with what
Another amazing dc villain has to be kite man because despite the fact EVERYONE says he’s bad and doesn’t deserve to be considered a villain, he keeps going. All because he knows he has to.
“Kite man. Hell yeah!”
I absolutely agree that smart and clever characters need to be written by smart and clever people, I had the same thought while watching the bbc’s Sherlock, the writers are at an advantage controlling both sides of a chess board but they need their hero to logically come to the conclusion of the method of solving the villains master plan. And it’s that word ‘logically’ that is most important, the audience must always be able to understand how a hero came to a conclusion and if they think hard enough they may solve the riddle themselves. If you havnt seen the first season of Sherlock I highly recommend it, all the villains are smart and well written and Sherlock is done brilliantly. After the first season the quality goes a bit back and forth between great and confusing but the first season, definitely worth a watch if your a fan of mysteries, puzzles and fantastic plot twists
i remember learning about the tumblr blogs that thought the show was so bad it had to be fake
Except the show is not clever, Sherlock always pulls something out of his ass that is NOT presented to the audience beforehand
Reminded me of my favourite riddler story, where he becomes sane and helps Batman solve a crime. Showing the other side of the parallel that the rogue gallery represents. That if they made different choices or had a different life they could be more like Batman.
“Unfortunately I suffer from being a ducking moron” lmao had me dead fr
THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING!
You should definitely see the new Batman film it's actually really good and the Riddler is quite effective at playing with the audience. I definitely appreciate the Riddler a lot more now compared to before I watched it. It's not perfect for what you're talking about here, but he doesn't have a cane and ultimately plays a game that even Batman missed in everything that happened
Riddler from the Arkham canon and from the Gotham TV show were both really well done imo
@@TieflingInAJar one of my friends wanted to watch Gotham strictly because of the riddler and how he seems to be really well developed in the show. And as someone who watched the whole show start to finish I told him absolutely watch it if that’s what you’re into.
@@TieflingInAJar i loved the development of both the riddler and the penguin in that show but at a certain point their storylines kinda felt meandering and boring, like once you've reached the end point of their arc there's not really much to do. It's why i lost interest in the show.
i always thought Riddler was the smartest super villain or the most original with style
Joker is smarter
@@SinsiMonkey yeah but Riddlers threads are fresher
I absolutely agree. The Riddler should absolutely be written as an intellectual equal to Batman, or even smarter than the bat. I think the new movie's Riddler is good, but maybe not what you're looking for? I enjoyed the movie and, while it does have its problems, I think the Riddler enjoyable to watch on the screen
"There's a man in a high-tech super suit and an average florida resident".
That caught me so off guard. I almost choked to death while I was eating.
I think it was the delivery of it that made it so funny. I haven't laughed that hard in a while.
Have you listened to the Batman Audio Dramas? Specifically Batman: the Audio Adventures or Batman: Unburied?
They both feature the Riddler pretty prominently, Audio Adventures goes a little more campy, and Unburied had him use his mind to help Barbara Gordon solve a mystery, both great iterations of the character imo
Where can I find them?
@@gerarquiaFM TH-cam, HBO Max, and Spotify
i'm not sure condiment king and lord death man are rather intimidating
Lord Death Man actually did get a pretty interesting run later on, where he was written as an impulsive spree-killer who treats real life like GTA because he doesn't have to worry about dying. He goes to Japan to go on a wanton murder rampage specifically because he reads that the Japanese are culturally unused to violent crime and wants to cause as much panic and fear and possible.
@@gonzoGnostalgic i did not read that version of lord death man how neat
@@gonzoGnostalgic can u tell me which comic this is pleaze
@@scaressell6880 Pretty sure it was Grant Morrison's "Batman Incorporated" run
@@gonzoGnostalgic thank you
I’m really glad you talked to about how the villains are meant to represent an opposing antagonistic view on Batman’s character. It’s something I’ve noticed for a while too, but will admit, some are harder to explain than others.
I feel it’s more noticeable in Batman and Spider-Man. Such as doc oc (8 arms), scorpion (arachnid), lizard (predator)
So I actually hope you can go further into explaining more villains it in another video.
so what's the green goblin
@@manjackson2772 peter's tech/genius probably
You’ve convinced me that the Riddler has the highest ceiling
Arkham Knight Riddler is definitely my favorite. He's eccentric, fun to listen to, and still managed to feel smart and not like a total idiot. He's so enthusiastic in his self loving-ness that you start to love him as well just because of his charisma. Loved every moment he was on screen. My second favorite character in the Arkham series, (after Joker of course. Mark Hamill is a legend).
Well god damn, I really didn't expect this. I've always thought the riddler was mediocre, certainly not he worst, but not nearly the best. This just flipped my riddler opinion on its head, thank you huggbees! Now he's up there with the greats: Joker, Freeze, Bane, Hatter, Penguin, and Riddler.
I've only ever seen the Hatter in one Batman story, and it was the first LEGO Batman game.
@@masterboa6321 Hatter showed up in BTAS and the Arkham games. He was always a personal favorite of mine. The guy is just absolutely insane, and I love it.
I like how there's a hint for how to read the book in the 'Ariadne's String in the labyrinth' line. Labyrinths and mazes aren't the same thing; mazes have offshoots and dead-ends while labyrinths are just the one path that winds around itself in a way that looks confusing. They're unicursal. Theseus in the myth was given a string and a sword but didn't really need either. There was only one way that led to the Minotaur and he killed it with his bare hands. There was only ever going to be one 'thread'.
My favorite aspect about ‘22 riddler is that he was essentially a copycat vigilante. Corny, campy, costumed, same goal as Batman and a similar method, he just aimed for higher criminals.
Also that boy can 🎵SIIIIIIING🎶