For Raishan getting hit with Feeblemind would be such a slap in the face. She always regarded herself as better, smarter, more clever than the others. To be reduced to a brainless giant lizard instead of being the mastermind dragonic sorcerer she was by a little girl? No magic, no mind. The greatest of insults.
I’d say it was done better in LOVM because… Keyleth legit beat Raishan at her own game. She outwitted… or rather, she _deceived the Deceiver,_ got her to lower her guard, and ensured she couldn’t escape her fate. She let herself get “killed” on purpose, all so she could take those ashes, absorb the disease from them, and bring it right back to its intended carrier. Raishan mocked Keyleth for letting her guard down the ONE TIME she doubted her distrust of her… and that came back to haunt her.
This is why Keyleth is my favorite character in VM. She's insanely powerful, and when she believes in herself, she is unstoppable. I admit, I do miss the Feeblemind, and it would've looked awesome to see animated, but the show made a really compelling narrative...and it worked!
I think Marisha crawling back to the table might actually be what her earth elemental form looked like emerging from the ground for the first time. I'll have to go back and compare, would be a really subtle Easter egg if that's the case
I feel like they should have kept keyleth using feeblemind cause it was such a good comeback to raishan who is known for being an intelligent dragon and somewhat “all knowing”.
It is rather specific though, non dnd fans probably dont know what feeblemind is, and unless it would have had more foreshadowing or explanation, it would have seem to have come from nowhere.
Yeah i went back to rewatch them both. I was really bummed feeblemind wasnt included in the show. But the way the show did the fight was still pretty poetic and awesome. I am pretty sad about that moment not being in the show tho
I love how Matt completely froze for a moment before going, "Hmm." Like he's trying to play off how much he didn't expect this, and is *absolutely* hoping it works for the pure irony.
It's kinda funny, In Critical Role Raishan's Down fall is best summarized as, the person representing those she hates Strips her of what she is most proud of, her intellect and mystical power. In TLOVM Raishan's defeats comes from the one person who could see through her and by using the very thing she was trying to escape from, only stronger! One is I take EVERYTHING you are proud of from you, and the other is What you escaped I return. Hilarious in a mundane way isn't it.
Thanks for this comparison! I've only ever listened to c1, so I didn't realize Marisha fell out of her chair during that part! While I really, really liked the original tabletop version, I don't think it would've adapted well to animation and I'm glad they went for more of a Blight effect in LoVM. This was one of my favorite spell uses in all of c1, alongside Scanlan's "nine".
As much as I loved the way the TV show did it. I wanted a Kerrek cameo. He didn't need to get the kill, but it would have been funny to have him back in Whitestone after the battle like "killed a dragon and have a haunted gun, eh?"
As someone who's only seen LOVM and not the streams, it's hilarious seeing Sam's American flag shocker tankard just completely devoid of context and nobody even acknowledging it
I was expecting Keyleth to drag Raishan’s mind into the earth that almost took her, leaving her body effectively brainless. But transferring the disease was a good second.
In a 3.5 game, we were playing the revised Isle of Dread, with a major plot of a pirate attack with zombie gas pearls attacking the main town on the isle (its a thing). After sinking two of the three boats attacking with control water, the last boat with the big bad lands with demons and pirates and it becomes a nasty slog with almost everything dying. The big-bad pirate captain demon goes to use the zombie gas pearl, and the cleric gets off a feeblemind to break him so he can't use objects. It falls from his hand and he gets ganked without being able to use his last spells or items. Feeblemind is a clutch spell. I don't know how it is in 5E; if they've moved it to 8th level most people won't ever experience it.
I'm convinced keyleth is gonna feeblemind something in show. they introduced that lobotomy crown to the show when execution would've served the same purpose narratively, and it would make sense for keyleth to learn to feeblemind from that
Seems like a bit of a reach, if she had learned something so specific after that it would have been hinted at somehow. Think they just wrote it out wholly due to how relatively harder it is to represent in animation cinematically
@@crystallxix1493 I don't think she has learned it, I think she will. I can understand it'd be hard to represent against a dragon, but if it's against someone who is only a spellcaster and doesn't really have other ways to fight (like Delilah), it becomes a lot more clear
@cobaltbeau Seems like a weird addition, especially when already she has a clear power up path to follow through her Aramente. It's possible ofc but it really does sound like more trouble than it is worth. Keep in mind that they have a very limited amount of screen time and something like that would have to be foreshadowed and developed properly (especially if it gets used to defeat Delilah)
@@Axel_Kasai Zombies are re-animated undead, some stronger power brings them back. A lich is powerful enough to stall death itself. Liches are powerful spellcasters.
Tell me you've never watched CR without telling me... Matt is acutely aware of the potential for favouritism accusations and if anything, in C1 was stricter on Marisha than anyone else (e.g. the infamous wind walk moment). Feeblemind is an int save and dragons don't usually have int save bonuses, so on a dragon without legendary saves left is genuinely a good bet. She had a greater than 50% chance of success. What sad world would you have to live in to sooner believe favouritism than an average die roll chance?
He literally killed her when she jumped off a cliff by letting her hit rocks instead of water and not capping the fall damage like it's RAW. Yeah, pure favoritism 😂 Can't believe that people are not finally stopping with this bullshit. So bitter and pathetic
@@inawinchester I have happily met all of CR, most multiple times. And as someone who plays D&D, trust me, those expressions of anger at crap rolls or JOY at a Nat 20. Try getting a Nat 20 Sneak Attack as a rogue. I was probably audible down the hall when I yelled out "NATURAL FUCKING 20!"
For Raishan getting hit with Feeblemind would be such a slap in the face. She always regarded herself as better, smarter, more clever than the others. To be reduced to a brainless giant lizard instead of being the mastermind dragonic sorcerer she was by a little girl? No magic, no mind. The greatest of insults.
Keyleth's feeble mind cast is absolutely a top 5 clutch spells in CR history
Up there with both of Scanlan's Counterspells against Vecna.
And dimensiondoor into a dragon. xD
Up there with Jester's Modify Memory
Dude, you are working overtime for these. I am so loving your "from table to screen" vids. So nice to see where they came from.
More to come!
right? and this one would be so hard to pace from all the differences. great work!
I remember the hype Merisha had was palpable. I think I stood clapping
I totally forgot the “I have all these spells that I can’t use now.”
“That’s karma for trying to kill Pike when she’s not here!” THATS RIGHT LAURA
ugh the scream Vax let out thinking Keyleth was dead, Liam O'brien strikes again.
@@itsjustmaddie9461 i feel like that scream ALONE makes the LOVM version better.
I’d say it was done better in LOVM because… Keyleth legit beat Raishan at her own game. She outwitted… or rather, she _deceived the Deceiver,_ got her to lower her guard, and ensured she couldn’t escape her fate.
She let herself get “killed” on purpose, all so she could take those ashes, absorb the disease from them, and bring it right back to its intended carrier.
Raishan mocked Keyleth for letting her guard down the ONE TIME she doubted her distrust of her… and that came back to haunt her.
This is why Keyleth is my favorite character in VM. She's insanely powerful, and when she believes in herself, she is unstoppable. I admit, I do miss the Feeblemind, and it would've looked awesome to see animated, but the show made a really compelling narrative...and it worked!
Yess I love this!
It was nicely constructed, but didn't land for me.
These may be 6 great voice actors But that was not acting. She literally fell out of her chair!! From just emotion
Taliesin hugging Marisha, Laura covering her mouth. There showing real emotions while playing this game.
I think Marisha crawling back to the table might actually be what her earth elemental form looked like emerging from the ground for the first time. I'll have to go back and compare, would be a really subtle Easter egg if that's the case
"Call me child one more GODDAMN TIME!"
She did warn her.
The moment the Ashari said they gave Raishan her disease, I had to pause for a minute cuz I realized that’s how they were gonna do the Feeblemind
if she was already feeblemind she wouldnt done half the shit she did in the show.
I feel like they should have kept keyleth using feeblemind cause it was such a good comeback to raishan who is known for being an intelligent dragon and somewhat “all knowing”.
It is rather specific though, non dnd fans probably dont know what feeblemind is, and unless it would have had more foreshadowing or explanation, it would have seem to have come from nowhere.
@adamushu yeah, I agree. I don't think there was a consise way to translate it into a visual medium without it feeling clunky and awkward
So essentially nothing like what happened on the screen
Yeah i went back to rewatch them both. I was really bummed feeblemind wasnt included in the show. But the way the show did the fight was still pretty poetic and awesome. I am pretty sad about that moment not being in the show tho
Oh the way Matt described the feeblemind spell is also the animations imaginary
That was a beautiful moment; one of many, in that campaign. Did that just work? Hell yeah.
I love how Matt completely froze for a moment before going, "Hmm." Like he's trying to play off how much he didn't expect this, and is *absolutely* hoping it works for the pure irony.
It's kinda funny, In Critical Role Raishan's Down fall is best summarized as, the person representing those she hates Strips her of what she is most proud of, her intellect and mystical power. In TLOVM Raishan's defeats comes from the one person who could see through her and by using the very thing she was trying to escape from, only stronger! One is I take EVERYTHING you are proud of from you, and the other is What you escaped I return. Hilarious in a mundane way isn't it.
Yet another awesome table-to-screen, mate! Much love to you, fellow Critter, for keeping this going! ❤
Thanks, will do!
Thanks for this comparison! I've only ever listened to c1, so I didn't realize Marisha fell out of her chair during that part! While I really, really liked the original tabletop version, I don't think it would've adapted well to animation and I'm glad they went for more of a Blight effect in LoVM.
This was one of my favorite spell uses in all of c1, alongside Scanlan's "nine".
As much as I loved the way the TV show did it. I wanted a Kerrek cameo. He didn't need to get the kill, but it would have been funny to have him back in Whitestone after the battle like "killed a dragon and have a haunted gun, eh?"
As someone who's only seen LOVM and not the streams, it's hilarious seeing Sam's American flag shocker tankard just completely devoid of context and nobody even acknowledging it
@5:55 Joe Swanson rolls onto the scene, "She died suddenly from cardiac arrest!"
I was expecting Keyleth to drag Raishan’s mind into the earth that almost took her, leaving her body effectively brainless. But transferring the disease was a good second.
I am so excited to see the table to the actual stream side by side
In a 3.5 game, we were playing the revised Isle of Dread, with a major plot of a pirate attack with zombie gas pearls attacking the main town on the isle (its a thing). After sinking two of the three boats attacking with control water, the last boat with the big bad lands with demons and pirates and it becomes a nasty slog with almost everything dying. The big-bad pirate captain demon goes to use the zombie gas pearl, and the cleric gets off a feeblemind to break him so he can't use objects. It falls from his hand and he gets ganked without being able to use his last spells or items.
Feeblemind is a clutch spell. I don't know how it is in 5E; if they've moved it to 8th level most people won't ever experience it.
I'm convinced keyleth is gonna feeblemind something in show. they introduced that lobotomy crown to the show when execution would've served the same purpose narratively, and it would make sense for keyleth to learn to feeblemind from that
Seems like a bit of a reach, if she had learned something so specific after that it would have been hinted at somehow. Think they just wrote it out wholly due to how relatively harder it is to represent in animation cinematically
@@crystallxix1493 I don't think she has learned it, I think she will. I can understand it'd be hard to represent against a dragon, but if it's against someone who is only a spellcaster and doesn't really have other ways to fight (like Delilah), it becomes a lot more clear
@cobaltbeau Seems like a weird addition, especially when already she has a clear power up path to follow through her Aramente. It's possible ofc but it really does sound like more trouble than it is worth. Keep in mind that they have a very limited amount of screen time and something like that would have to be foreshadowed and developed properly (especially if it gets used to defeat Delilah)
Is that Patrick Rothfuss?
Yup. He was a guest character on this episode.
He seems like a really nice guy to hang with and play DnD. He is totally in the moment
Rothfuss was Kerrek, a paladin.
Always good to have some help when fighting evil dragons. 🐉
Patrick will do literally anything except finish writing his book or be honest with his fans.
@@Seraphiel123Kingkiller fans will do literally anything but respect Pats creative process
Keyleth bringing new meaning to “Dumb it down”.
When Matt says Raishan gets another save in 30 days and Marisha reacts like she just won the showcase showdown
Do wonder what kind of disease was infected her in the serie
DRUID DOWN‼️‼️
was this time when patrick ended the 3th book for the 20000 time?
So it was completely different in the show gotcha
Nice of them to let Kerrek get the kill in the show.....
Yeah I was a little disappointed by the fight. They changed literally everything. Even thr cool stuff 😅
Wasn't Reshan a zombie dragon? Not a Draco lich... far beyond things with this dragon...
What's the difference?
@@Axel_Kasai Zombies are re-animated undead, some stronger power brings them back.
A lich is powerful enough to stall death itself. Liches are powerful spellcasters.
The way it happened in the show she probably would count as undead, but in the game I don't believe she ever possessed Thordak's body.
@@BuddhaMonkey7 That is correct. In the stream, they stopped her before she had the chance to revive/possess Thordak.
I did not like this change
Im lost with the beard guy, his roleplay was not on the show or is it me?
No, he was a guest.
Unfortunately, that Patrick Rothfuss bullshit doesn't work on Mercer like it does on Perkins. Fortunately, he didn't need it this time.
Is there a Chandelier in the room?
Only reason it worked is cause she's married to the DM. Marisha should never be allowed to play. Waaaay too much favoritism. Smh
Favoritism caused 4+4 to equal 8?
Tell me you've never watched CR without telling me...
Matt is acutely aware of the potential for favouritism accusations and if anything, in C1 was stricter on Marisha than anyone else (e.g. the infamous wind walk moment).
Feeblemind is an int save and dragons don't usually have int save bonuses, so on a dragon without legendary saves left is genuinely a good bet. She had a greater than 50% chance of success. What sad world would you have to live in to sooner believe favouritism than an average die roll chance?
He literally killed her when she jumped off a cliff by letting her hit rocks instead of water and not capping the fall damage like it's RAW. Yeah, pure favoritism 😂
Can't believe that people are not finally stopping with this bullshit. So bitter and pathetic
@@inawinchester I have happily met all of CR, most multiple times. And as someone who plays D&D, trust me, those expressions of anger at crap rolls or JOY at a Nat 20. Try getting a Nat 20 Sneak Attack as a rogue. I was probably audible down the hall when I yelled out "NATURAL FUCKING 20!"