Wait, Disaffiliators are Terrorists?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- What is to be said when a major publication associated with The United Methodist Church publishes an article that compares, in all seriousness, people and churches who want to disaffiliate from the UMC with Hamas terrorists? Is this something that should be ignored? Can it be? If things like this are publicly said, if bishops allow their clergy to malign their peers this way, then what kind of conferences can the UMC expect in the future?
Links:
“We Are All Hostages Now” by Richard Bryant - um-insight.net...
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Don’t apologize for all the different topics. Just keep doing what you’re doing. That’s what the majority of us are here for.
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
-Acts 3:19
:)
I agree with what you say. I felt that we were hostages of the UMC and now that we have disaffiliated, I feel free. Thank you for speaking out on this subject. Praise God.
I totally agree. This man sounds as though he is about to have a mental breakdown. He's totally self unaware. He is projecting "hostages" upon himself and others like him instead of realizing forcing, coercing and keeping conservative traditional believers against their will in the UMC are the actual hostages. Thank you, Jeffrey, for praying for this man. He surely needs it. ❤
I've read a lot of his columns because of the links in the "UM Fallout - A Compendium" website, and in the 4-5 months that I've read them, I sincerely believe that he is having a mental/emotional breakdown. He has all but repudiated all basic Christian tenets but is still an ordained elder. Sadly, he was recently (?) appointed to a church that has voted to disaffiliate and that appears to have been the final straw for him. All that said, the Bishop needs to remove him if even temporarily. His articles are the worse type of hateful screed (all in the name of love!!) with little logic or coherence. He wants his side to 'win' and the traditionalists to 'lose' and feels that they are 'winning' by being 'allowed to get away'. In all grace and honesty, if the Bishop won't deal with him, he should at least take a sabbatical until he either feels better or decides to be honest with himself and leave the UMC to join the UUs.
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
-Acts 3:19
:)
.
I have commented multiple times on the UM Insight page directly connected with articles this person has written, in the most logical and loving terms I am capable of, and none have been posted; all have been ignored. I pray for him and for the ones who feel that this kind of rhetoric is okay or helpful to disseminate. The enemy is alive and active in our churches, UMC or otherwise, and unless we have the mind of Christ and take every thought captive, we are a part of the problem. Giving a platform to this kind of hate or disappointment or frustration or whatever emotion this person is experiencing is enlightening to those who do not understand the state that the modern church is in, but it's also borderline contributing to the chaos and the anger and the hate. What would Jesus do or say right now? I think He would say that this person does not need to be in the pulpit, and that at all times we should love our neighbor as ourselves. Love does no harm. No matter what their opinion is. This man needs help. Come Holy Spirit.
Sad. Thank you Jeffery.
Hope TJ made it back safe.
Made it back safe and sound!
I think his assigned Church disaffiliated with him at the helm. Clearly he is taking it personally and has lost sight of the big picture.
For real? I didn’t think of that being a possibility. Wow.
@@plainspokenpod- This church did disaffilliate and was approved by the NCCUMC on Oct. 7th. They are seeking to become a GMC congregation by Dec. 1st and are seeking a new pastor to takeover once they join the GMC.
I came from a United Methodist. Our church disaffiliated with the United Methodist Church 2 years ago and now we are a Non denominational independent church and love it!!!!. We were the first UMC in our county to leave and since then several others have followed.
This man pastors a church in Orange County NC, the most progressive county in the state. A neighbor to Durham and Duke Divinity. Most if not all the UM churches in Orange County are declining in membership.
I know what you mean by "progressive," but it has been a euphemism for decades to hide its more sinister association with cultural Marxism.
While I was listening to your broadcast I set up an appointment for concrete for a new sign at a disaffiliated church.
Was I wrongly informed that ¶2553 was proposed by a supporter of the Traditionalist plan who, out of compassion for the visible distress of those who opposed it, wanted to provide a way out for progressive churches, rather than forcing them to remain in a denomination whose official doctrines were abhorrent to them? In other words, because he didn't want such churches to be "held hostage"?
You are correct. 2553 was intended to graciously allow those who found traditional Methodist beliefs and following the BOD to be offensive to have a path to leave with their property and assets.
To understand the context of this column, readers should know that the church where the Rev. Richard Bryant is appointed, New Sharon UMC in Hillsborough, N.C., has voted to disaffiliate from The United Methodist Church. The North Carolina Annual Conference will hold a special session on Oct. 7 to vote on disaffiliations.
Thank you, both for informing us of this article and for the gracious way you responded to it. Your closing prayer was perfectly appropriate.
This is just one more thing that makes me glad I chose not to go to Duke divinity school.
It makes me feel very sad. As a leader in my own local UMC I have held to faith that there is a way for God to heal the church in His direction. I'm tied to no church, nor is anyone else. There is no hostage to God, only to sin. I'll leave should my staying cause me to sin, as advised by Wesley himself.
I thought I had heard it all. Uneducated, backward, hater, unloving, unjust, fundamentalist, but never a terrorist. Crazy! You handled it well.
Unreal! I'm so worried about my brothers and sisters who we left behind at Houma First. over half voted to disaffiliated, but half of them decided to stay. I'm tired and frustrated. I pray God gives me the patience.
I wanted to add, I believe his comments about itineracy are about him being moved to a conservative church which recently disaffiliated. He's had some other doozy articles writing about how bad he feels about being appointed to a church in which he is philosophically diametrically opposed. If you get a chance, I recommend that you peruse his earlier articles. He openly admits that he is emotionally and spiritually exhausted. Which makes sense, since carrying that much hate in him takes a big toll.
His service record speaks for itself. With one exception, he has stayed one to three years in every appointment.
So, if he's a hostage, won't he be "set free" by the hostage-takers leaving his church?????
It's definitely an illogical and incoherent 'argument' - he's claiming to be held hostage by people who have left. In reality, his issue is with his hatred of traditionalists/conservatives and since his own church has voted to disaffiliate, he feels 'held hostage' at a church with people he now hates.
I am conservative and I hold no one hostage. If anyone does not like my stand on topics then that is just too bad for you.
I’ve never heard such ridiculous nonsense! As you perused his curriculum vitae I was looking for what drama school he graduated from. As the progressives in the UMC witness the exodus of the conservatives it is dawning on them that their bogeyman will soon be gone and they will be left to deal with each other. This article is a cry of anguish at that realization. Pastor Jeff, rather than being upset , you should be thankful that God allowed you an exit from that for a better work
I think the underlying issue isn't just that the 'boogeymen' are leaving, it's understanding that their ideology DEMANDS an opponent and if there are no traditionalists left, they will turn on themselves. Case in point - the ill-fated Liberation Methodist Connexion. On their website is a startlingly honest post about what went wrong. Here it is in their own words: "Common ground was easier to find when we were focused on critiquing old institutions. It has been much harder to find as we all bring ideas about what can be." In particular, "some working group meetings struggled with attendance as common ground in conversations on foundational documents was not reached. No new collaborators were introduced, seemingly due to a lack of agreement about how to best integrate new people. Other sticky points for us have been concerns about whether our BIPOC collaborators are being treated well, whether we are prioritizing dismantling white culture in the LMX over creating space for queer people, whether the LMX should be a traditional Christian denomination or other, whether the historic roles of clergy/laity are liberative, and whether we should continue to define what our communities should be, and ultimately, what the LMX should be before opening our doors to more people." Woke ideology, sadly, needs "oppressors" that have to be defeated and if they succeed with one then they need another one. Link: www.thelmx.org/the-lmx-a-year-in/
New Sharon Methodist Church voted to disaffiliated and will be leaving the NCCUMC by end of 2023
Preach it brother!
Where can one find a copy of what Rev. Bryant wrote. Would very much like to be able to read exactly what was in the essay. Hope very much to be able to also find and read the response of Rev. Renfroe. Very much appreciate your response in this TH-cam post. May God bless your ministry in the work of Christ our Lord.
peopleneedjesus.files.wordpress.com/2023/10/bryant-um-insight-hostages.pdf
Also, I wonder if this person is sitting around giggling about the stir he has created? This isn't the first article he's written that makes me question his devotion to God and His Word, His actual Word written down for us and embodied in Christ. Is he enjoying himself over this kind of toxicity? We should definitely be in prayer for his church that he serves, and we should definitely hold him and those in authority over him accountable for this kind of rhetoric. But how would Jesus treat this person?
Well done, Jeffrey, thou good and faithful servant.
I’m glad the enemies of the cross identify me as their enemies.
So, does he consider Hamas as terrorists, then????
The UMC is what would happen if the Overly Attached Girlfriend meme were an entire denomination.
😂
Just pray for this man and that ideology. That is the same for the USA. Woke ideology
Those who want to leave are the hostages.
With all this kind of behavior, surely the future of the UMC has started decaying and sinking... 10 years will be enough for this Denomination.
Certain men have crept in unawares,...
This post from Rev. Bryant is par for the course with other articles that he’s written that have been featured on Insight. I’m not sure that his issue is mental as much as it appears to me to be more spiritual. I believe that by his rejection of orthodox interpretation of scripture, that he’s left himself open to demonization. He’s obviously been deceived into believing that what he has written about biblically conservative believers bears any resemblance to the truth. We need to be praying for this man’s soul. In my opinion, he’s a candidate for demonic deliverance .
as soon as you shared your screen, the guy looked just as i imagined him.
Had plenty of arguments with Mark Holland at the Great plains annual conferences. Don't care for that man.
As sick and bizarre and clueless this individual is, the real issue is that United Methodist Insight chose to publish it. Anything goes if it can be an attack on those holding to the true Wesleyan and biblical teaching.
You solicit constructive criticism so I will add my two cents-I think describing his work as tying us to Hamas is a bit over the top by you, but he clearly ties us to terrorism in general, which is horrible enough. I would also leave out the claims that the author is seriously crazy. Beyond that, all your points seem completely valid. The extreme irony, which you highlight, is that the “terrorists” holding hostages reside in the hierarchy of the UMC.
How dare you?! JK. Thanks for the insights. So you didn’t think the language he used at all taps into this cultural moment of concern about Hamas? I’ll reconsider that. And the assessments of the author are definitely under examination. The guy definitely seems to be struggling. My concern is that folks seem to be losing their discernment generally in our society. I don’t know how many people know that this was a legit crazy thing to write. I guess I’m more concerned about the publisher. Just seems crazy to put this sort of thing forward as a valid way to engage the world. But anyway, yeah, I hear your critique. And thanks.
Wow. Just wow. I seem to remember something in the Bible about not bearing false witness? Shame on this author.
Creation. Was it from God or man? Did God write the comments or did man think them up? Why is there a debate? Affiliation is mans creation. I say this because God gave man the everlasting truth of choice in the garden. In case you missed it God also gave the first mention of forgiveness by allowing man to continue to live. He also says not to judge. Death cult? Who and what are you ready to die for when you stand before God? What exactly is his agenda? No threats just questions.
I’m a left leaning United Methodist and I disagree with the perspective the author of this article takes. I do think this person wrote from an emotional place and it will reflect poorly on the denomination, even though I’m certain most United Methodists, at least those around me in OK would also likely think this is terrible.
That said, you do dramatize and mischaracterize the article to a pretty extreme level. The image of someone holding a gun to someone’s head? Come on. The words “terrorist” and “hamas” literally don’t appear in the article. This person may not have made that connection at all when writing this, but you put that issue at the front and center.
I mean can you tell me you honestly made this video to minister to people and not to rile them up? Really?
Thank you for watching the video despite the different worldview I have from you. It is good to spend time with people who see things differently. I hope folks like you make the decisions at General Conference next year.
It could be that I read the article in a worse light than most folks. Yet I will say I discovered the article because it got passed around by conservatives who made the same conclusion. When the words “death cult,” “hostages,” and “fundamentalists” are all used in the same short article, I’m wondering how unreasonable I really am to draw these parallels.
It seems a lot more likely to me that it was written and published in this way, with inference but not using explicit words, for this exact purpose of gaslighting anyone who reacts the way I did. It just feels disigenuous to say that I’m being dramatic and these connections didn’t have to be made. I think they volunteer themselves and I would be a fool for not seeing it.
But listen, I do appreciate your writing and critiquing. Consider watching more of my stuff to understand why it is that conservatives aren’t happy with the UMC. My aim isn’t to make people more angry, but to help them work through their anger righteously.
I do not understand what it means to be a "left leaning" UMC. Nor would I understand the phrase "right-leaning" UMC. "Christ-leaning" would remove the political/social pollution injected by human ego.
@@user-xp7ju2sd6o Left and right, while they do correspond with political frameworks, are much larger than that. They have to do with the assumptions one brings to any particular topic, including theology. If you speak to people who lean left in the church, and then to people who lean right, you'll eventually get the impression that we are speaking about very different Jesuses, different understandings of holiness, different aims of life. I'm of the mind that it really is two different faiths, altogether.
@@plainspokenpodAgreed
This type of rhetoric causes people want to leave the UMC! I am not even sure such rhetoric even deserves a response! #movingon #iamdone
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
-Acts 3:19
:)
.