From The Mouths Of Our Bishops
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2023
- Our bishops are elected to provide general oversight to the worldly and spiritual interest of the Church. With 46 active bishops in the US alone there are going to understandably be a wide range of different personalities and believes on different topics. In this video we are trying something different, we look at three of our bishops in the United States and evaluate some of the things they have said. To get the full context of what was said please take the time to watch the whole videos that were put out by the bishops, we only address a few short instances within these larger videos, they are listed below for your convenience.
Show Notes:
Conservative Tolerance Article:
juicyecumenism.com/2023/01/17...
Interview With Robert Barnes (On Oliveto):
• Interview with Rev. Ro...
Bishop Trible Video:
watch/?v=590...
Bishop Oliveto Video:
vimeo.com/799302437
Bishop Shelton Video:
vimeopro.com/user1637118/conn...
Connie Shelton is Eastern NC. 249 churches disaffiliated before she came in. She has come in and is not letting some go easily. She closed one church that was in the process of disaffiliation so the UMC could keep their valuable property in downtown Wilmington. This was done without the consent of the membership. They were heartbroken. Easter Sunday was their last Sunday. It was vicious.
I know little about that conference but I’ve seen bishops do the similar things with valuable church property before . Disappointed yes, but no one should be surprised at all by such behavior from any bishop
Connie is/was my bishop in NE NC. My church lost disaffiliation by 1 person, we will be meeting this week with an Elder from the Global Methodist for help and instructions on beginning a plant church in Currituck. So we are doing as she directed and walking away so no more chaos from us trouble makers.
Judy, You and your church family are in my prayers. Christ calls us to repentance. Sadly, many who call themselves Christians do not understand what this requires. Christ said to count the cost. True followers of Christ know the cost and are willing slaves of Jesus who saved us. Christ said, "Take heart because I have overcome the world." As believers of Jesus, we are being tested. Christ, who is doing his work in us, will follow it to completion. ❤
In the last year I have seen so much evil in the world. After leaving my faith for almost all of my adult life, I have returned and am so grateful to be able to rebuild my relationship with God. I am so surprised by the way the UMC has devolved since my youth. I'm in Washington now and there is a severe lack of morality here. I will pray for you and your congregation. The Bible is HIS word and it is our duty to follow it while on this earth.
We are not the trouble makers. They are gaslighting. Let's not fall for the evil lies of the woke activists. Fight the good fight. Go preach the gospel, and make disciples of Jesus!
@@JR-zw2vb Amen and hallelujah!
Excellent video keep up the good work. With Bishops like this is it any wonder people and churches are leaving the UMC
Does God change? Thankfully no and using the story of the people of Nineveh as an example to prove your point that He does, shows just how weak one's Theology is. That a Bishop does not understand the difference between a conditional and an unconditional determination of God is stunning. Thanks for all you do Jeffrey!
Bishop Oliveto is a practicing lesbian. The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.
We’re off for Good Friday. I would normally be working at this time :)
Thank you for the info. I believe we should not be using the label “conservative”. The political connotations muddies the water. We are little “o” orthodox.
Eric, there isn't really a perfect term. When I use 'conservative,' it deals only with the sensibility that those things rooted in history are not worse because they are old, and are often actually better, as they stood the test of time. There are many words used within the faith that are used in other sectors of life. And folks who are predisposed to be contentious are going to try to deconstruct whatever words we use. Don't let the haters trip you up. One of the biggest fans of this channel is a guy who is politically liberal and religiously conservative. He wears that on his sleeve. We adults can do these things when we decide not to be contentious.
Im in a very small town in the foothills of NC. I feel our church has mislead us about this entire thing. IT was never brought up until it was too late to try to leave or have a vote and that was intentional. A vote was never proposed or brought up. Complete silence. My husband and I have decided to leave and find a Global Methodist Church. It’s a terrible feeling to believe you’ve been misled by your pastor. I really really appreciate your videos. They are very easy for us top understand. I feel like things have been made confusing and information left out intentionally to keep us confused and so we wont ask questions for fear of being labeled a bigot or stupid. This has been so disappointing as we’ve established a church family for the past 5 years since we moved here and have invested time and money just to feel like we’ve been lied to……….
I am in a similar situation in my church in Central VA. After recently relocating to this area , I'm puzzled that my church is not really addressing the ELEPHANT in the room. Everyone just seems to act like nothing is changing. I don't want to be a TROUBLE MAKER. I love my Sunday school class . I have not heard a word from anyone about what's going on. Now, all I do is cry( alone) and pray ( alone) my heart says to leave FAST. I must leave. Although there are no churches close to check out. Wishing and praying for you as you begin to enjoy your new home church.
Great show I hope as your channel and podcast grows (and it will) I hope you branch out to the greatest culture war bringing a traditional Wesleyan view to the internet. The Calvinists are carryingcarrying to much water right now. God bless you brother.
So glad more people are watching. My husband and I like your information. You give a bit of both sides. More from the biblical, and that’s ok. We are more traditional. A lot of us older folks are, but so many don’t want to go through change. Many have said they don’t agree with the UMC movement towards going with the world, as crazy as it is, but too old to make the change. My husband and I go the way we think the Bible says. And we are old!
Hopefully, you can have a John Lomperis interview. Also, Andy Miller (SalvationArmy) interviews a lot of people. His last interview was with the pastor of a “mega” Methodist church going with the foundry. For some reason they only want churches of 700 or more😲. But the pastor does give advise on how to grow a church, which is almost opposite of what I thought!
I know the stereotype is that older folks don't like change, but I have four kids under the age of 7, and I can tell you they don't like change much, either. I don't think it is an age thing. I think folks of your generation are just a little more free from the spirit of the age, which has overtaken many.
I'm glad you like my stuff. I'm trying to be fair, clear, and faithful. I'm not perfect, but the prayers of folks like you are surely going to help me to be better.
Don't sell yourself short. You aren't reluctant to continue down the path the UMC is on simply because you're old. It's because you know it is wrong, and that following Jesus is about being right.
👍🏻❤️
I do think you will have a great and informative Bible teaching platform beyond disaffiliation. I think the people that are trying to figure out and get past this really want a voice beyond this. I do think you can do that. Figuring out and helping to grow traditional, conservative churches is so important right now.
It's amazing that after 1800 years the Marcionites have made a resurgence and a complete about-face
I feel compelled to point out a situation that continues to appear, but seldom gets mentioned - It’s how often the relaxation of world-wide rules and doctrines passed by the church’s governing authority are thwarted by female pastors and the progressives who support them.
I believe the scripture is clear about the female role in church. Another point UMC has ignored
“big tent church”= equals no orthodox and fewer people in general. It meant this for the Episcopal church and the ELCA.
More precisely it means “ The institution is more important than truth. So as long as you go along with us we will ‘get along’ but if and when we ever don’t and you choose truth over institutionalism we will be coming for your church building .”
“ If you are in NC you are in a hostile place “- Jeff.
You don’t know a fraction of it dude …smh.
And it has little to do with conservative vs liberal and has everything to do with mindless goose-stepping institutionalism vs freedom of conscience. There are plenty of liberal like me who find the cultish institutionalism stifling and suffocating.
And…ugh…that new Bishop Shelton unfortunately reminds me of the disaster the WNCC had with Bishop Kammerer who, imho, spent eight years clandestinely trying to weed out conservatives and evangelicals . No open war was declared but when you see evangelical casualties piling up for eight years you have to wonder why. First time I’ve seen Shelton and she gives me the heebie-jeebies - and it’s not because she’s a woman. There are scads of male bishops who do the same for me. The poor NC conference smh….UMC bishops as a whole tend not be high-quality human beings but Leonard Fairley, whom I’ve known for over 40 years, does have SOMETHING on the ball, as shown by his handling of the disaffiliation process in the Fall before he left the NC conference. Looks like totally dropped the ball in Ky though smh. . Looks like it’s going to be downhill for the NCC now smh.
Exactly. There are many, many firebrand conservative female pastors who are getting the same treatment.
The problem is the bishops and their priority is the institution, not Christ
@@cuatro336 Yep. When one REALLY has the courage to dissect it, institutionalism is IDOLATRY, plain and simple.
And people, liberals, conservatives and moderates need to start calling institutionalism for what it is.
I once had a DS who at a district meeting compared being a UMC clergy person to working for Bank of America where his son worked .
Yeah you heard that right .
He lauded his son for “ being a good employee “ and essentially doing whatever BOA wanted and never questioning them .
And yes he said that with a straight face and meant every word of it .
Of course one of the implications of his “ informative discourse “ was that “ if you’re not climbing up the ladder to better churches don’t blame if you’re not being a good little institutionalist “
Another thing too few people mention is that the types like this DS have some real palpable disdain for clergy who don’t sell their souks to the institution. In fact we are often a walking talking narcissistic wound to them -and they make us pay for it
Religion is a social agenda. Knowing God is not a social agenda for the Kingdom of God is within.
Read your bible. There is no religion except social religion. You're preaching gnosticism. Get behind me, satan!
Gospel of Thomas! Love it.
@@plainspokenpod Absolutely true ""There is no religion except a social religion"". Unfortunately God is not society for society is a creation of men's worldly minds. Jesus was a mystic and all mystics look for the truth within. Going into the closet is the way and where one should pray as Jesus said.
"I'm a local licensed pastor" - Aha! now I know why you're reasonable and I can agree with you!
Get thee behind me, Satan.
Generalizations, no facts and again, name calling from the left, really?
As a left winger, politically, and religiously conservative, that is hard for me to point out.
Having a really hard time with that, used to be the other side who did that, in my pitiful mind at least.
Keep up the good work, hope your Churches are full and souls saved this Easter, regardless of where you stand on any of this..
Okay I thought I was glad not to be in the Mountain Sky Conference now I am also glad I am not in North Carolina
Olivetto was very cagey in her answer on whether Jesus is divine. She just restated the creed without answering the question. Also, as a former UMC member, your comment that you don't like Easter resonated with me. Neither Christmas nor Easter are mentioned in the bible and both have pagan origins. Christmas is a replacement of the winter solstice/suturnalia. The origin of Easter as I understand it is from the Babylonian god Ishtar (or the German god Eostre) who was a goddess of fertility; however, God calls us to follow his appointed feasts "for all times". All 7 feasts point to Yeshua (Jesus): Passover (Jesus is the Passover Lamb), Feast of the Unleavened Bread (Jesus's sinless life), First Fruits (Resurrection), Shavuot/Pentecost (The Day The Church Was Born), Rosh Hashanah (Jesus's Return), Yom Kippur (Yeshua is our atoning sacrifice) and Sukkot (God is with us as he was the Israelites in the wilderness).
The rules haven't changed yet
I believe that the DISCIPLINE says that Bishops have 'unlimited appointive power'. Billy Abraham was at my home church and stated that Technically his Bishop could appoint him from SMU, where he taught at Perkins, to some church in Odessa, Texas('Friday Night Lights'). Hmmm...so Bishops are somehow being held 'accountable' - that they are not infallible.
If a denomination is going to have bishops, then it doesn't bother me if they have great authority to arrange the different pieces of the puzzle in the way that best works for fulfilling the mission of the conference. And of course they will sometimes make mistakes. I just have a problem when big decisions are made behind closed doors and there isn't transparency in the system. I think authority only makes sense when there is accountability. If they don't have to be held accountable, then I think they give up the authority they have, even if they maintain the office technically.
Are these bishop's even saved
I embraced Jesus some 20 years ago. I was baptized in a church that was Baptist in character. The Iraq war was on at that time, and, the pastor of that church, did not know, that, killing people is not a Christian activity. I left that church and subsequently three more, for the very same reason. Money and politics have become the gospel that is preached in these corrupt times. This has nothing to do with following Jesus and everything to do with gaining political control of this nation. Politics are evil. Lies, slander, flattery, bribery, coercion, extortion, hypocrisy, and, murder. These are the very foundation of All politics and ALL political platforms, and, ALL politicians must use these tools to get and keep power and influence. So, clearly, there can be no mixture of politics and Christianity. Matthew, 5-7. This scripture contains the commandments Jesus gave us, and, in the judgment, we will be measured against them. Preach that and forget politics. Let God see to the affairs of the world.
God has used/chosen people to carry out his purpose(s).
@carolynjohnson639 Jesus told us what to do. If we obey Jesus we will be OK. If we start making up our own rules we will be doing our will and not His.
Why do you need a book of mans discipline did not the sacred text tell us how to live and act
The folks who abide by the Book of Discipline do not see it as a statement that they don’t need the bible. Rather, the bible is needed for salvation, but the discipline is needed for following the Bible together. If you don’t have a shared understanding of how everyone is going to cooperate together, they won’t cooperate very long. Things fall apart.
@@plainspokenpod ok I have asked Methodist that before and got no answer
@@kimsutton2268 Yeah, unfortunately lots of people just do what they do without thinking about it or questioning it. Everyone needs to WAKE UP and start examining things better. Life isn't meant to just go through the motions. Keep asking those questions, Kim. I hope I'm helpful to you on your journey.
Why do we have to say "conservative"? Why can't we simply say Christian? We embrace the Gospel in full, including all of the words of Christ Jesus. Those that have driven Christians out of the UMC are essentially Unitarians, not Christian.
I claim ‘conservative’ because I’m trying to conserve the historic Christian faith against forces seeking to undo it. It’s claiming where I stand in the midst of the world’s various battles and factions. My disposition is to conserve.
@@plainspokenpod Thank you. I appreciate your reply!
Don't like the word Easter???
...not really.
@@plainspokenpod I guess what I'm trying to ask is what's so wrong with it. I've only heard debunked etymologies from the "See, it's actually pagan" crowd.
It seems that she is in the fully human part more. Then the fully divine part. It is hard to understand that the principle of Jesus and his due nature. His full divine and his full humanity.
Connie Shelton : " ... it's time for those with mean spirited arrogance to move along." MEAN SPIRITED ARROGANCE??? Really??? I'll bet she hates my little dog, too.
I wonder . . . In 15-20 years, about 10% of your children will reveal they are gay or trans, or otherwise not heterosexual. So one of your loved ones in this situation also feels a strong call to ministry. So then, will your “orthodoxy” help you as you tell your gay loved one that they can’t follow God’s calling?
Yeah, right doctrine helps people navigate all things in life. Otherwise we are just slaves to feelings, and that is most miserable. We are aware that our children will challenge our convictions and values. We plan on sticking to values and principles rather than our children's feelings. You're welcome to watch and see how it goes. I'm not really impressed with the alternative approach, so I'm pretty confident it'll go better for us than you imagine. Not that our kids will perfectly fit into the boxes we create for them, but at least they will have a structure to cling to beyond their own feelings...
Yes is the answer. ...the Bible told me so....
I have a hard time listening to Bishop Karen anymore after seeing her put her pronouns by her name…….
The Bible is explicit on this matter. Exactly "Who" was calling her in?
This is what happens when you deviate from clear Biblical teaching. You started ordaining women against clear teaching of scripture; once you violate God's word in one area, why are you surprised when everything else goes sideways?
why most of the GMC people cannot accept the fact that they are from the womb of the UMC, then GMC is born.. Conceiving and Birthing is hard and painful..
but at the end, GMC hurt, UMC hurt.. the issue is repeatedly within the circle of church property propagating issues on doctrine and lgbtqia+..
UMC is not a good parent, and GMC is also ungrateful daughter.
How to honor one's father and mother is indeed a worthy question to examine thoroughly. I am of the mind that sometimes the best way to honor one's parents is to do as they should have done. The GMC is trying to reclaim the heritage that the UMC seems to have traded in for some pottage, while also not dragging their names through the mud. While there are individuals within the GMC who have spoken ill of the UMC, I have noted that all the leadership is reluctant to engage in much mudslinging. I think that is partly out of concern for honoring those out of whom they are coming, even as the UMC often slanders them.
Thank you so much. But I have follow up question.. Why is it a hate for the GMC to help the UMC?
Few months ago I am too observant about the issue within your church. I think it is covetous act to still remain on your church building and wait your General Conference even to that obvious mindset of all.
I am worried that some of the GMC people will decline to move forward and go back to UMC because they don't willingly want to go empty handed..
Praying for your church and its higher bodiy to give space for holy conversation of both sides for reconciliation for your world be in one. Both of GMC and UMC are bias, and I hope both of them settled in the matter of faith and love.
The church changed rules the Bible didnt! She's a hypocrite.
Wearing a hat in church. Sad Bishop