Prometheus Script Reveals Who Is The Space Jockey
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.พ. 2018
- I recently talked about Prometheus draft script that contained various revelations about Engineers, the black goo and the decon and how it all relates to the events in the movie.
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However, in this video, I wanna discuss another crucial detail in the script that addresses a question which was boggling fan’s minds since the original alien movie of 1979: who is the space jockey and why did his ship crash. In the movie Prometheus when David activates the hologram, he only sees a brief moment of Engineers taking to one another and the audience doesn’t know what the engineers say. However, in the script, there is actually a translation of their dialog that addresses the space jockey mystery.
The script has a bunch scenes about the space jockey and the location of lv 426 so let’s go over every single scene in order.
I think it’s important to mention that this script is a draft and was written before the studio intervened and possibly cut many scenes. The content of the script can also contradict to some elements in Alien Covenant and the reason is that when Prometheus came out, it received lots of criticism due to the lack of aliens and the shift to Engineers. Because of that Ridley and the studio decided to abandon the original arc of upcoming movies and make corrections to add more screen time with xenomorpshs. However, as you will see in just a momemnt, they originally intended to connect the story to the first alien film.
With these facts in mind, let’s actually read the script.
First, I want to point out that the space jockey belongs to the same group of of enginners that we saw in Prometheus. I read many theories discussing that the space jockey or the pilot was way bigger than engineers in Prometheus and possibly belonged to a different race. However, in the script there is a detailed description of Engineers’s height, which is 13 feet without the exterior suit, and 15 feet the suit on, which corresponds to the space jockey's height in the original alien according to avp wikia. The real reason that the Engineer in Prometheus visially looked smaller is because Ridley used a really tall actor instead of cgi due to his love of practical effects.
When the ship prometheus approaches lv 226 , it is mentioned that the gas giant has 2 other moons which are lv 133 and lv 426 the same moon that nostromo visited in the original alien.
The next detail is the dialog between David and Weylend in which we learn that his team picked up a signal from another moon.
ENGINEER 1 Whilst checking cargo two he was attacked by the planet seeders and thought not to tell anyone. He shall give birth to a seeder within the next hour.
ENGINEER 2 Nothing we can do for him now. We shall continue our journey to Eden and provoke them with rapture thus turning it back to Eden once more.
In early versions of the script, the eggs were to be located in a separate pyramid structure which would be found later by the Nostromo crew and would contain statues and hieroglyphs depicting the alien reproductive cycle, contrasting the human, alien, and space jockey cultures.[32] The pyramid concept was realied in Prometheus which looked like a temple but you can find very similar design in early Giger works. bCobb, Foss, and Giger each created concept artwork for these sequences, but they were eventually discarded due to budgetary concerns and the need to make the film shorter.[28] Instead, the egg room was located inside the jugernaut and was filmed on the same set as the space-jockey scene;
I’m not sure if Ridley will follow this story-line for the space jockey considering his facsination of artificial inteliggence and his recent comments that AI is the furure of alien franchise.
There are many theories that in the next one of two alien films 20th century fox will connect the story to the original alien . Many poeple believe that David will become the space jockey after merging his body with xenomorphs that he created in Covenant. Thus making a truly perfect organism with bio mechanical features.
However there is a big problem with the scenario in which the space jockey ship crashes after events in alien covenant.
In the original alien, the pilot is fossilized, just like the head in Prometheus and that process takes several thousand years, so there the space jockey cannot be david or any other caracter from the prequels because they would simply not have enough time to turn into a fossil.
There exists a theory that pathogen urns eventually transform into eggs using the organic substance underneath them.
Another possibility could be that because the ship was filled with so called seeders.
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Everybody ask "who 's the space jockey ", but nobody ask "How is the space jockey" :'(
Seems dead to me
Alienated from the rest of society
His chest hurts
Why is the space jockey
@@carlospowell7672 And whence is the Space Jockey? Whiter to?
The original concept for Alien was so amazing. It's a damn shame it was never truly realized.
I wld love an engineer movie, or at least expand more on their lore. Their plan to make us extinct, etc
Space Jockey: mysterious terrifying elephant-shaped alien with creepy eyes and petrified exoskeleton.
Engineers: high eight-packed and silk-skinned dudes with baby faces and cute big eyes.
Body builder race with blueish gray skin
This will be addressed in about 15 movies time when Ridley Scott is raised from the dead.
its a helmet
@@ghost-my7ednot originally. The helmet idea was dumb to start with. Hopefully they retcon it.
Hell, the space jockey would be 15 feet tall at least. The Engineers are about 9-10 feet. Totally different. I can’t get over the height dispute.
I hate it that the space jockey was turned into a space suit. In Alien it was an organic body with eyes and an elephantlike trunk. It was much more mysterious and scarier.
This is where I differ. The Space Jokey in Alien is in a different ship. It was merely revealed that the purpose of the chair was to serve as a pilot seat. You are correct that the one in Alien 79 has an organic body with an elephant like trunk. Why is Prometheus not allowed to use an Engineer that is willing to be fused with the chair? It was meant to be different from the one in Alien 79 who appears to have been fused with the chair against its will.
@@MCCrleone354 The engineers are supposed to be the same as the space jockey and its species. It's supposed to be the same universe. Same kind of ship, same body which is now a suit. They changed it simply because Ridley Scott wanted to change it. For the worse imho.
In Alien the space jockey was a fossilized organic creature and, for 40 years people were made to believe that. Why change this great concept four decades later in a quasi prequel, which should lead into the original movie? Scott wanted to give the space jockey's species a more significant role, and sacrificed the mystery that has surrounded them, and that was imho a big mistake. He ruined his own mythos and one of the greatest sci-fi movie characters ever created.
@@lukeskywalker6809 he didn’t ruin it ,you idiots ruined it by crying like Bitches. The newer generation like myself don’t give a flying fuck about some stupid elephant creature. That sounds like an old ass 50 year old idea that nobody gives a shit about that’s why they fucking dropped it ! Now there is no more alien movies Smh
Deal with it.
@@rumuelnathanael8043 Fcuk you. You deal with it.
They should have stuck with the story of the engineers and ditched the Xenomorphs. Instead they killed the engineers and the female character and there really is nowhere left to go.
Studio execs really don't make very good decisions.
Toughnut Exactly, RS was really trying to end the Alien franchise and really expand with the Engineers but stupid fucking retarded Xenomorph fans couldn't get the memo and had to bash Prometheus for the lack of Xenomorphs when it wasn't even a fucking Alien movie smh....
The engineer in Prometheus was the last engineer… the people David kills in Covenant were not engineers.
R they were tho
Explain?
it's shown in another video, with the original script in it. definitely not engineers and not their homeworld.
I enjoyed Prometheus more than Alien Covenant. I was expecting to see the Engineers and their culture in the latter, but instead because of fan backlash on Prometheus, the Engineers were all killed off in Covenant and all we got is a group of clueless people on a deserted planet being chased by the same alien-ish monster. We got a movie with not much story.
PS: most like it’s not the engineers who got killed off but they sure look a hell of a lot similar. Successful engineer colony maybe. Looking like their makers lol.
They say it wasn't the engineers that David released the fury upon. I don't know, man...
Lol yeah. No one knows. Ridley not having clarified much in Covenant. I think they were Engineers and that the ones we saw in Prometheus look different because, remember, these are aliens that like playing around with a black goo that genetically transforms everything it comes into contact with. So these space engineers could have looked different because they used the black goo to enhance themselves for space travel. Maybe to live longer, to be tougher, require less calories, lol.
Fanboys ruin everything and hate originality
Yeah in this case I feel that's what happened with Prometheus. I really like Alien, Aliens and Prometheus. When it came out it was exactly what I was hoping Ridley would focus on. But when I saw Covenant I was disappointed in that he did not show much of the Engineer culture. In any case, I'm intrigued about what he plans to do with the whole AI playing God plot. It's an interesting direction to take the franchise in.
Seb B yeah i love the AI idea i just feel bad that he has to shoehorn in a dumb xenomorph scenes thats arent scary anymore when he could be expanding on the engineers
the eggs on the crashed lv426 ship come from thus:
The engineers impregnated a host species with a queen and allowed it to mature and lay eggs on LV226. Those eggs were placed on the LV426 ship. While loading the eggs, a few hatched and attacked the pilot as well as the engineers on LV226, that's why the engineers were running. The engineer launched the ship bound for Earth but as he was leaving orbit his chest burst and the ship fell into the moon's gravity well and crashed on LV426
Damn bro,, this seems like a good covenant 2 movie
i've been a MASSIVE alien fan since I was a young boy in the late 80s. and I really wish Scott could have continued with his original plan after prometheus, because Covenant was a huge let-down compared to what you are discovering in the Prometheus script
It really was
ur old gross
Alien came out in 79, not 80. Ty.
@@plaguedoctormasque8089 He meant he became Alien fan at late 1980's. He never said Alien came out in 1980. You might have misread his comment.
su1ac0 Yesss. I like hearing this from die hard fans.
I remember Prometheus immediately resonated with me in a strong way as it laid the groundwork for an even more detailed and dark world to exist in the alien franchise without having to simply rely on the xenomorph. It’s a very mysterious storyline which a lot of people sadly overlooked.
Hopefully Ridley will be able to finish his original vision with Alien Awakening and answer certain questions.
I think if anything can be learned from this whole series is how an awesome, fascinating story can be come convaluded and messy due to the studios reaction and prediction of audience's reactions. This would have been so much better simply as a novel, netflix series, or independent film.
Netflix series? No pls
@@zyroniv9143 yes, would have had diversity as the primary focus, not an intelligent story line.
Convaluded
@@queensapphire7717 black trans engineers .
@@dermagnus8482 can’t wait for sis bi xenomorphs 😂
Amazing work Kroft! Even though the final script of Prometheus turned out to be quite different and a lot less detailed, a lot of elements concerning the original "Space Jockey" and Sir Peter Weyland's awareness of something on LV-426 actually survived in some way or form.
When Prometheus was released on Blu Ray, it came with "The Peter Weyland Files" which are logs written by the character of Peter Weyland, and are bundled with the virals that were part of the Prometheus promotional campaign.
Especially the logfile that comes with the "Quiet Eye" viral is interesting as it explains how and why Shaw and Holloway came into contact with the Weyland Corporation in the first place.
It also sets up that Peter Weyland was well aware that the 2 doctors were on to something big.
Just read this little passage which I will quote:
"As fate would have it, Shaw and Holloway's interest in Zeta 2 Reticuli has proven to be mutually beneficial. While the good doctors rely on ancient carvings and primitive cave paintings, my science division's own long range scans have recently detected a faint, almost imperceptible signal emanating from one of the lesser moons in that system. And contrary to the findings of Shaw and Holloway, which target LV-223 as our primary site of interest, our findings suggest the point of origin could actually be the moon LV-426."
Sir Peter Weyland
(P.WEYLAND/PVM/PRS/LOG-CRG/2090.01.14/TRS-MARS_gtt91)
This bit is very important, as this comes from OFFICIAL canon information that was released with the movie Prometheus.
This basically proves that David is NOT, and CANNOT be the creator of the xx121 Xenomorph species, since we do know what the origin of that faint almost imperceptible signal is, and what is stored within that mysterious ship under a special type of containment field.
The eggs were there, long before David 8 was ever build.
They were there for at least 2000 years if we take into account that the other engineers on LV-223 were fossilized/mummified in a similar way.
It makes Alien Covenant all the more frustrating as a movie, because it is just so bloody inconsistent and as a whole seems to have totally lost focus of the actual existing canon.
I loved Prometheus I think the engineers and their story are more interesting than the xenomorphs
carlos magana EXACTLY!
Same thoughts here
Same
same
Same to bad we're not gonna get to know more
I find Kroft's videos to be more interesting than the actual movies.
totally
I want another movie to come out just so I can watch his breakdowns and theories
He has a science fictionny voice.
Hahahaahahah killer comment
The David and engineers story is way more interesting than this same old alien shit.
You are correct
I think the Engineers story is superior to David. I disagree that AI is the future of the franchise myself.
@@3Rayfire Though I agree, David is not really an AI from a character perspective. He is a placeholder for a created intelligence and its relationship with its creators, regardless of how the plot of the story justifies Davids genesis.
@wanka wanka So much potential for a truly intellectual film wasted by the micromanaging of upper executives. Not only is David, despite his HUGE potential in its own right as a character, in the film Prometheus David is one of the LEAST interesting themetic characters, which is saying a LOT. The thoughts that Prometheus could have provoked include but not limit the idea of advanced ancient pliestocene era human civilizations, extra-terrestrial intelligence, the creation of life, morality's entanglement with the mind, the concept of the "ubermensch" and pursuit of overcoming ones own humanity, the hubris of individual men craving power, and so much more. All potential, all was attempted in the scripting, and the executives to keep it appealing to NORMIES threw it all away. Normies said "raa we want screaming monster raa" rather than thought provoking cinematography.
@@smh9902 He was as played & directed in Prometheus & he would've continued to be if Ridley had been allowed to make the true sequel to Prometheus titled Paradise . Unfortunately David Lindelof only had completed half the script before he got tired of being everyone's whipping boy & quit. When they were essentially forced to jettison the engineer plotline & come up with the slapped together dog shit that would become Covenant ( a team of 6 writers , yes 6, I might add including a guy known as the best script doctor in Hollywood,John Logan. ) they had to find a ' new creator '. That was , after all, the impetus for the films . David is all they had to work with so when they changed the narrative to the garbage they changed it to they had to change David , big time . I'm telling you , I got the distinct feeling I had seen much of Covenant before .Couldn't place it right away then it came to me. Star trek TNG. Data & his emotionally unstable brother , Lore. Lore is trying to subjugate a small band of left behind borg to his own will and Data beans down to the planet & because of some atmospheric disturbance gets stuck down there & he & Lore get into this big philosophical debate . Covenant writers ripped that off big time.
Don't listen to people hating on your voice. A lot of us are tired of hearing the same tone/inflection/accent in every damn channel. Keep it up, man.
"deeeeeetaaaaaails" I love it
Cuberth I agree I find nothing wrong with his voice. The ones who take the time to complain are pathetic and even with just that bit of writing u can tell they are shitty people at there core
i always play his videos 1.5 speed.
I even thought you speak that way on purpose, because IMO it fits the context of these videos.
Hey that voice he could surely get a part in an Alien movie or something sci fi
i love his voice! people are not used to unusual voices i guess the same goes with singers too, i find it very personable and warm
Seeing those script pages of the conversation between David and Weyland were HUGE in my opinion: if David and Weyland knew of the alien transmission (which would have been transmitting for 2000 years by that time) and that the Juggernaut found on LV426 came from the planet featured in Prometheus, then facehuggers or 'seeder's already existed at that time; David did not create them. The seeders were already on that ship. Depending on their physiological makeup, 2000 years (from the events of the outbreak up to the events of Alien) would have been plenty of time for the Space Jockey carcass to fossilize in a non-oxygenated environment (as LV426 had not been terraformed yet) which gave it the appearance it had when Dallas and his crew found the Space Jockey. Also, it makes sense about the eggs and no queen: queens existed at that time, too. I have a hard time imagining a queen dying off (as one was kept underground and comatose by the Predators in AVP) so I would imagine there was one on the ship that crashed on LV426 as there was no evidence of one during the Prometheus film.
Hopefully the future film(s) address these plot holes and give us a better picture from a cinematic standpoint.
David created his own version of the Xenomorph called the Praetomorph. The Xenomorphs already existed before David even knew about them. David's Praetomorph has a lot of similarities to the Xenomorph, but a few differences such as they are not biomechanical, and they are of lesser intelligence and more aggressive than the original Xenomorphs. People don't really know the true origins of the Xenomorph, but it probably is another creation from the black goo that the engineers use.
That would say that David did not invent the Xenomorphs but reversed engineered them and making the Protomorph. This would bring the story in line with the Alien Covenant novel
This is the most likely and most logical theory. The Xenomorphs already existed in nature, and the Engineers and later David were simply trying to create their own.
Yeah, it makes far more sense that xenomorphs already existed, the engineers discovered them, then tried to do the same thing that Weyland-Yutani wanted to do: weaponize them in any way possible. One way the Engineers did this was create a biological airburst weapon, used to pacify large areas (seen in Covenant). The Engineers used the genetic material of the xenos to create the black goo, which they possibly used for other technologies, since the black goo seems to try and re-write the genetic material of whatever it comes into contact with, like a form of viral reverse-stem cell (see Prometheus). It's almost as if the goo "remembers" it's supposed to be a xenomorph, and thus tries to transform new genetic hosts back into them, restarting the life-cycle. Perhaps the Engineers seed planets with Xenos as a sort of lifestock, from which they harvest further genetic material.
Ridley must make a book where judgement of fans are ignored, companies are ignored and all his full vision for the story is present. I love the alien and engineers concept equally not saying leaving aliens but adding new mythos to the story is just amazing
I couldnt agree more..the fact that there actually making these mindless millinials think ous the problem it's over thier heads..i love where Ridley is taking the story it's not just aliens killing everyone..end...yes the crews are stupid but that's what makes horror movies is that the people are stupid otherwise they would win. I think it's fascinating to learn from Kroft these missing links.
@@badmonkey2222 Covenant is literally just aliens killing people... lol.
Nah, Ridley Scott’s talent is with visuals. Landscapes, special effects, cgi, costume design, set design, lighting, etc. He cannot pursue his vision without a budget of several hundred million dollars. The story is a means to an end for him. Btw, Prometheus was made as a contender for best 3D movie of all time
Prometheus could've been it's own thing. It's not as bad as people say it is. To me it's about creation and our relationship with god. I myself non-religious. It could've been a movie about existentialism but nooo It's an Alien prequel! The best thing about the movie were the Engineers. The worst part however were probably the human characters. They were really dumb.
Fledder Maus actually I find it pretty amazing the universe that were created in Prometheus, really could be such a cool movie sequence out of it, but to think they have changed a lot of it because people didn't like it cos "hey, it doesn't have enough classic aliens" it's just brutally disappointing
I always found the whole thing about Covenant becoming what it was because "Oh, fans complained that Prometheus didn't have aliens! So let's give them ALIENS!~" as a bit of a scapegoat... An excuse for Ridley to throw around to cover for his blunders in Alien Covenant. The reason why I've come to believe this is because Alien Covenant essentially many of the same mistakes that were made in Prometheus, from story elements to the stupidity of the human characters. Seriously, never before in any of the Alien movies have I hated the characters to such a degree as those in Prometheus and Alien Covenant. I'd say you could probably make a drinking game out of those movies... Like down a shot or take a big swig of beer for each stupid thing that the characters do... But that'd probably get a lot of people sent to the ER for alcohol poisoning. >.<
My point is, there were a lot more complaints regarding Prometheus other than there being no xenomorphs, and yet by Alien Covenant all those same mistakes were repeated.
Fledder Maus Couldn't agree more.
Exactly, there was a fucking reason it was called *Prometheus* and not *Alien* : *Prometheus* ...... I just want a true sequel to Prometheus and a full backstory and plotline about the Engineers. No more Xenomorphs running around a damn ship anymore, we already have a WHOLE Trilogy of that shit..
"To me it's about creation and our relationship with god"
It has been done before. And better: Mass Effect.
I couldn't care less about the Xenomorph and wanted to know more about the Engineers...but they turn Covenant into a stupid monster movie I turned off after 30 minutes (when this tiny aliens was able against all law of physic to crash through the security class of the lab).
And I guess I wasn't alone for the box office nearly halved. Taken inflation into account, it did halve.
Alien vs Prometheus is inspired as concept from the Alien vs Predator , Engineers seems a more adequate challenging match for Xenomorphs franchise rather than yautja alien class of Predators or to just give the Alien vs Predator franchise a worthy and intelligent rival such as the Engineer.
Also the movie Prototype X29A (1992) main villain looks alike the Engineer
Plot :
Set in a post-apocalyptic Los Angeles of 2057, Hawkins Coselow, a crippled soldier, along with his ex-lover, Chandra Kerkorian, share vivid psychosexual dreams. Dr. Alexis Zalazny is working on a cybernetic program that will help Coselow walk again. The program sort of works, but everything goes deadly wrong when Coselow becomes a killing machine that can interface with any computer. He ends up killing several people belonging to a resistance movement.
Dude I found your channel recently and I have to say thanks so much for your efforts here. This series is one of my favorite stories ever, and I'm really appreciative of the clarity you help provide. Great work, man.
Scott turned this into such a clusterfk, there's no way to untangle it. The story ISN'T about David, so get it back on track
Damon Lindelof did, not Ridley Scott, Lindeloff never explains anything in his film scripts. Ridley's gotten older and probably doesn't fight as hard as he once probably did. Thus Prometheus as a movie suffered as a end result!
@@MGSBigBoss77 It's not RS's fault its the fans that bashed Promethous cause it didn't have enough Deadly Aliens in it. I guess answering long held questions wasn't entertaining enough for people.
the real reasons Prometheus got bashed was because of non sensical script and incredible stupid humans...that were apparently scientists.
@@alyberop1 It was pretty bad when I was rooting for the Aliens. A newspaper critic in my town, Seattle, said he was saying "Allright, would you guys DIE already!" Ohh, it looks just like a cobra, let's play with it. Sad.
It`s all to blame to those fucking retarded fans who whined like little bitches about his last movie.
This makes more sense than what we got in the movies.
Depressing isnt it..
The Space Jockey isn't even an Engineer, you can clearly see major differences between the two.
TheKaijuGamer_2003⚠ but the script just told us it was an engineer...
@@jimog6595
The script was changed and is different, not only that, but the director has a habit of changing things.
@@TheKaijuGamer_ I trust the wiki made by fans more than the director, the wiki says that it's a species related to the engineers but diferent, it's believed they are the ancestors of engineers, like if we had neanderthals living among us today.
7:41 This is actually Baron Harkonnen's keep, designed by Giger for Jodorowsky's "Dune"
True dat... }:€)·
Where fox went wrong with sequels and prequels was the organic aspects. The 15 foot jockey was grown out of the chair. And the entire space craft was organic too. It was totally alien. New writers reinterpreted and ignored the facts. Ridley has been given too much credit and guys like Dan O'Bannon have who understand what fear is, haven't.
Totally agree. The jockey in Alien and Prometheus are not the same. There is a clear break in the narrative between the films also. The Alien jockey is one and the same as the chair/ship, also a Geiger design. The prometheus jockey was a way for Scott to introduce the Engineer characters, for better or worse.
Completely agree. Here we have one of the most fascinating creatures ever depicted on film. Thirty some odd years of wonder and mystery. Then along comes Prometheus. "Oh, it's just a suit. Nothing to see here!"
It's one person and only one person to blame for the direction the franchise took in that regard , the biomechanical nature of all things alien featured in the original . His name is James Cameron . His decision to utterly ignore those aspects was predicated by 2 things . The script he had written while waiting for a year before he could start filming original Terminator. The producers called him in because they had liked the Tetminator Script Cameron had written & told him that the tone & feel of it matches what they had in mind for a sequel and asked him if he'd write a script up for Alien 2 as it was then known , during the time he had to fill . They said they knew he was directing Terminator & that if it was a hit & they liked his script he could direct Alien 2 so already you have the producers very heavily influencing the overall direction of the franchise. What they didn't tell Cameron is that nobody in town wanted the Alien job because it was seen as career suicide . That's why it took 7 years between films which is insane considering Alien grossed over 250 million in 1979 dollars which , for an R rated movie was outstanding . The second thing was H.R. Giger . The first movie was all about the art . O'bannon's script was reworked over & over again And again. They were actually a military ship in the first one but it was Ridley who changed that up . When people say Ridley gets too much credit, I have to laugh . Ridley is an incredible artist . He graduated from London's Royal Academy of Art which is one of the most prestigious art schools in the world . He was the son of a career military man who was a strict disciplinarian who expected his son's to follow in that regard but Ridley kept failing math. Over & over. His dad thought Ridley was just dumb and took him to several specialists until some diagnostician realized that Ridley had a kind of reverse autism .It was impossible for his brain to retain any numerical information but for a short period of time . He could learn it but when it came time for tests it was just gone . The doctor told him that he's not a dumb ass & thst this kind of autism usually came with a trade off . Asked if he had any special skills or things he could do . Ridley told him he did and asked for paper & a pencil said he'd be back , walked out and walked back 5 minutes later with a rendering if the interior of the doctors office that was mind boggling in it's detail & memory . Ridley has a true photographic or eidetic memory which is where he gets that famous ' eye " of his as they say in the business. Him & his brother were already famous in London & Europe for making commercials. He had 15 years of on the job training as it were becoming familiar with every type of camera , thickness of lenses to achieve affect , experimenting with lighting techniques & basically evolving into something that was really s force of nature on the set of Alien. When he made his first movie , The Duellists , it was without Hollywood & he financed it himself . He submitted it to the Cannes film festival where he won Best new Director for it which is a major award and got him the Alien job where he found a kindred spirit in O' Bannon who convinced them they needed Giger back because the studio thought his work to be an obscenity & had fired him . Ridley got him back on board & together those 3 men , men being the key word there as all 3 were in their 30s not fresh faced film school students who just graduated to be used & abused by the studio , formed a strong unified front . Ridley shot 85% of Alien himself , not his cinematographer. Without Ridley, Giger wouldn't have even been there . The budget for Alien was only 4 or 5 million but that budget was doubled solely based on the strength of some astounding storyboards Ridley had drawn to show the execs what the movie would like . Without Ridley there wouldn't be a space jockey m They didn't want to let Giger build the set at all . They wanted to use miniature models & forced perspective bullshit because they were only gonna be on that set for maybe 3 minutes of film time & never return to it & it cost a million and a half dollars to build but he insisted .If your really interested in the first movie you should find a copy of Gigers Alien which is Gigers account of the making of the movie & it's a good one . Ridley did everything on & for that movie .
@@michaelscott7916 Wow. I thought I was a fan. lol
"It's been dead a long time-fossilized...like it's growing out of the chair." -Dallas. This is a mis-statement of the process of fossilization. Fossilization occurs when minerals replace replace organic structures in sedimentary layers leaving behind a replica of the geometry. The space jockey appeared to be a mummified and calcified. The contaminated atmosphere desiccated the space jockey's corpse (it's suit being compromised by the breach), oxidation and possibly dehydration and crystalization caused the dermis of the suit to deteriorate, revealing the support ribs and eye sockets of the helmet, merged with the deceased engineer,
According to Ash LV-426's atmosphere was inert nitrogen, high concentration of Carbon Dioxide, methane and trace elements. This relatively inactive cocktail would have preserved the engineers corpse, not fossilized it.
Dallas' technically incorrect language is no problem. He was describing how the space jockey appeared to him, not drawing conclusions.
pretty sure Dallas wasn't an archaeologist. or anything of the kind. it always made sense to me that he would use the wrong term, but still generally describe the appearance of it reasonably accurately given his lack of doctorate.
How bout Petrified?
@@slavesforging5361 /facepalm..One who studies fossils is a palientologist. One who studies ancient cultures is an archaeologist..Not sure why so many get these two professions mixed up..-_-
Great analysis, but at the same time, what if it really was fossilized through rapid globalization, since neither the engineer nor its suit were human and were on another planet with a different atmosphere?
@@RukudoSage69 yeah, i know that, that's why i said "or anything of the kind." taken a few archaeology classes and been on a few digs myself.
I have my own theory about the Engineers and why they seem to want us dead. To me there seemed to be 2 distinct sets of Engineers shown. The ones shown at the beginning of Prometheus seemed to be depicted as very spiritual, almost Monk like. Contrast those with the one woken from stasis who seemed extremely violent, military, and REALLY pissed off. I think the ones seeding the planet with their DNA at the beginning were attempting to create something better than themselves, and the military versions didn't like it and a civil war started. One set hellbent on destroying us and the other on preventing that.
I dont really buy into the avenging Jesus theory. I cant imagine a race that advanced getting so bent out of shape over the death of ONE member that it would instigate a genocidal response. I CAN imagine a race, even that advanced, containing a large faction not on board with the whole creation program from the get-go, and willing to destroy whatever was produced by it. Maybe we were simply viewed as a threat best eliminated.
I wouldnt consider either of the latest movies on a par with Alien or Aliens, but I would like to see the story taken to some conclusion. Hopefully one that makes some kind of sesne.
Agreed!
Great theory
Just like the fallen Angles and Satan and demons what gets me is why the thought that the creepy crawlers are "perfect" well then that means Evil is perfect, over and over the Perfect word is used in these utub clips since when is evil perfect, and if so, then next movies should have Goodness perfected Light Vs Dark has been around since what people could think ;)
Agree. But the Minbari in B5 otherwise did the same.
Killing “Jesus” was simply the last straw after watching human kind wage wars and kill each other “time and time again” as it states in the draft script
Great work finding the draft and using it to plug some holes. Love your channel.
I think Ridley f*cked up and the Space Jockey is just what he looks like,a 13' Elephant Man and Ridley never planned on revisiting the scene or doing any revisionist explainations.He just wanted to make a cool impression with something other-worldly.
It's easy to explain later. It could have been covered in the sequel to Prometheus. The black goo experiments can explain most things.
It wasn't really Ridleys character. It was H R Giegers. Amazingly difficult to make anything reasonable out of. Ridley just got lucky his space monster movie got carried by the demented, yet brilliant, artwork and visions of Gieger.
@@Quimper111 It is very sad how much credit Ridley gets for the Alien franchise these days. He directed, one, I repeat ONE Alien movie. He did not come up with the script, the story nor the creature. He was merely the director. And yet, everyone acts like he invented the franchise. I respect Ridley for his work as a director a lot, he directed some really great movies and he knows how to do visual story telling. But he is not story writer! Give him a shitty script and he fails. And this is what happend in Prometheus.
Most people ignore the fact the Spacejockey is not only bigger but also is grown from the chair and has no lower limbs. I would imagine he is the ships navigation system. Grown for a single purpose. You can't tell me its a helmet, you can see its Ribcage grows out of its shoulders and around its long trunk. That creature was designed never to look away from its Scope. Even as a Xeno ate its way out it remained at its post.
@@Novasky2007 Are you saying that space jockey ribs and hose are alien himself? there is nothing under neath it? He looks huge but i do agree he is grown from the chair, it looks so odd. What's really inside of it? Makes me wonder.
Thank you, for your well narrated analysis, i am adicted to it, there is nothing wrong about your speach tempo, as some suggest, everything is perfect, i especially like the background music in all the Alien vids.
Kroft I enjoy your videos. As an arm chair fan of Alien, I always learn something new from you. Thank you for your hard work👍🏻
Subscribed
I honestly love your videos. Hope you start uploading more. I love the voice actually and the background music.
I just remember renting Aliens on VHS as a kid one Friday after school, watched it when I got home, and love it! That is all...thanks.
Your background music is so soothing... What is it?!?!?!
it's atlantis by audionautix
Kroft talks about Movies It is a fitting song for these videos. When I hear that music I associate it with the prequels.
I also was under the impression this is Alien music.
Darude Sandstorm.
Alien Barbie Girl!
I would change his voice to 1.25 but I found myself going to regular speed the more I watched his videos. I like the details with the extra time I get processing it
keep up the good work Kroft. I am an Alien Fnatic and I love the Movie Prometheus. It has been awhile since the movie came out, I am very happy to see analysis and theory about this movie come out from time to time, SALUTE TO YOU!
Thank you sir for all the missing links , u really are the most coherent film explorer ive ever seen and listened ! thank you again , i hope to see more of your videos in the future . Greetings and salutations from the fans in Romania ! keep it up , and stay frosty!
How the fuck this scripts were.scrapped for the shitty movie that we got instead ? THIS was it ... and they blew it
He shoulda continued with Engineers plot than with aliens. Idiots never get beautifully intricate story plots.
they can still be involved. the civilization in covenant wasn't the main colony because their technology wasn't evolved enough to be the space jockeys.
It wasn’t his fault, the pissed off “fans”were the ones that didn’t want anything new to the story. It’s their fault
Other than the robotic narration, you really nailed this. Even getting all the Jodorowsky Dune tie ins and plot elements from the original Alien script. I LOVED Prometheus and was bitterly disappointed with Covenant. This fills in the gaps nicely and demonstrates where the story could have gone and should have gone.
Love your videos. How could i missed these videos
The Alien/Seeder/Zenomorph that burst from the Juggernaut pilot transformed into a queen after finding no hosts on LV246 to impregnate.
Then it began laying eggs in the ship for future visitors to the site to be sure it's kind would continue.
Like certain reptiles or amphibians that spontaneously change sex when no mates can be found.
Probably fed on the juices of the pilot/jockey and whomever may have been in cryo-stasis onboard
That helped the now transformed Queen put on enough weight to produce the eggs it laid.
Then, similar to the female octopus, it's body now used up from producing the eggs, died.
The eggs act as their own suspended animation chambers and have the ability to wake up when disturbed by anyone happening into the immediate area.
Some sort of energy field that they produce when en mass as they were found.
Demonstrated when Kane discovered them in the first movie.
Funny you mention that, the xenomorph turning into a queen due to the lack of hosts. In the E.U., this is actually a real thing. Though it hasn't been shown often, the xenomorphs have been shown to be capable of "molting" into a queen if none are present or if the previous queen is killed.
Wretched Excess Xenomorph
Yeah, just wait, the older you get the more brain farts you'll have too.
I wouldn't worry your poor head about any of it. While you're mumbling about some kind of thing to do with an egg, Scott has successfully ret-conned his legacy into a pile of shit.
No worries here but, I have thought about it some since I saw the original in the theater when it came out...
...in 79'.
Shame it's just an early draft and that it really doesn't mean anything if the material onscreen negates it. How did this franchise manage to churn out such a convoluted mythology?
My sentiments exactly.
It could be that producers were afraid of crossing paths with established Christianity, with the Alien mythology of Engineers kidnapping Jesus as a child, in addition to implying that the Engineers are "god" and the creators of humans. It could be that they wanted to get this across in a roundabout way, that wasn't offensive to Christians. Instead, they created confusion and a mess.
The points of confusion, seem to center around them trying to avoid the "kidnapped Jesus" part of the story and the quasi religious talk from the Engineers. Trying to be too mysterious has done them no good. It would have been better to be more direct. The draft script was actually excellent, and I think the audience could handle the "kidnapped Jesus" because this is a Sci-Fi/horror flick. Fear of backlash was likely unnecessary, and it hurt the telling of the story.
multitudeofidols life listening to criticism of Prometheus is how. People complained about the engineer story line leaving to much unexplained . AC is not doing as well due to the dumb down horror angle of zeno’s. I personally liked the engineer angle. Far more interesting !
After I watched the movie I needed answers so now I’m watching all your videos! Good work bro
Excellent videos. Your work is amazing 👏
The jockey had very different bodily proportions from the engineer, and its suit looks quite different in several ways
This to me says "retcon" more so than "different species"
The original space jockey was clearly not meant to be a large human underneath the suit, it was clearly meant to be truly alien through and through. The change is indicative of the development of Ridley Scott's God complex, which he is projecting onto the new movies.
"God" complex?! He has a Satanic complex, rather. Only David survived, and he intends to create xenomorphs, and even hybridize them whilst experimenting on humans.
Can't wait for the next movie ! Alien is my favorite franchise and I absolutely love how different the new movies are!
Really nice job. Great research and well explained.
Your voice and accept is part of you channels charm. I like it.
Thank you kroft. I subbed and I already told all my alien freak friends about your channel. I hope they sub as well. Thank you for explaining in a very calm understanding English which I'm able to share with my mother because she can understand your English even thou her English isn't as developed. It really helped me spend more time with my mother watching something we both enjoy watching and listening to. Thank you kroft.
You’re welcome bro!
Always enjoy your vids Kroft keep up the good work...love these movies!!
I really enjoy your videos! Please keep making them!
I love both new movies, the story about the engineers is very interesting! I would love more movies about them, I want to find out more about them
The space jockey crashed over 2000 years before the Nostromo found it. That is enough time in the primordial atmosphere to fossilize the space jockey.
bigevilworldwide1 Exactly, finally someone is using their brain....
No no no ir take millones of years not 2000 years
thank you.Ive been asking this question for years.Thank you for helping me I hope you have a great time and I love your videos
Man you do a great job explaining these movies
set video speed to 1.25
@@RavenL1337 it's a joke. Not a di**
Don't take it so hard :)
You've inspired me to watch Alien 1979 right now.
So how did you like it?
Movie Nerd as a 39yr old American. Was a little ashamed that it was the only one I hadn't seen. It was just so so good.
John Paul Simpson You must watch it... now!
Movie Nerd re read my comments sir. I wrote that I was ashamed that I hadn't seen it. But, did after I originally watched this video. Then o wrote to you that it was " Just so so good. I loved it man. Especially Yaphet Kotto. What a perfect flick. I was ashamed that I hadn't seen it before that night is what I was trying to convey. It was amazing.
These videos bring such insight and depth to the hidden details of Prometheus and Covenant; I look forward to more and the new Awakening film coming down the pipeline!
I've got to give it to you Kroft , you really do make a great video , respect is due my brother !!
Thank you for to talk slowly, I am studying english !!! I love your videos !!
would love to see Scott finish his trilogy prequel. I love prometheus and the AI story line more than the xenomorphs.
Facts
I love your backround music, it sounds so cool and scifi
Love your Channel Kroft! Your voice/videos is like ASMR for me lol.
What we need is a mega battle movie with Engineers, Xenos and Human Space Soldiers 😁
@green fox I don't expect much from him anymore
you forgot the Predator !!
12 years old?
So 40k but alien
4:37 the text says - "with the *poof* that these Engineers *where* here". Yup, definitely reads like a script a native English speaker would write, and definitely not by someone who is not a native speaker. 100% authentic script here folks!
It's been known that this is a fan script since 2012. We even know who the author is. Unfortunately when Kroft stumbled across it in 2016, he thought it was real. Now millions of people think the same.
Great video ! im learning alot... thanks again !
thank you for your work - much time it took and i certainly appreciate it - even 5 years later
Whilst it is true fossilisation takes many thousands of years, that doesn't rule out the possibility of the Space Jockey being a newly introduced character. There's a mechanism involving, I think, water with high limestone content that will give the appearance of fossilisation within months. The crashed Juggernaut _was_ on a rocky planet and there was a lot of moisture on the dead Jockey. It would be a bit of a clumsy retcon, but not outside the realms of possibility.
I hope Scott goes back to his original plan though, I was really getting into it
Bobfish Almighty exactly
We always attempt to put earthly restraints on non-earthly elements ... that will be humanity’s downfall. Our short and very small sightedness ...
If you're referring to things like how our search for habitable planets is constrained to conditions similar to Earth, that has nothing to do with a lack of imagination or some such thing. We look there not because we think life is impossible outside of these conditions, but rather because we know it has _happened_ under them
Bobfish Almighty NASA also checks or plans to check other locations different from the Goldilocks zone of other stars where conditions are similar to Earth. Like icey moons around gas giants or places with liquid methane on the surface like Titan in our own solar system.
NASA plans to check everywhere. Space is just really, really big. So we're starting with places similar to our own first
This whole alien thing is a mess.
@Merlin A lot of the problems stem from shoddy business practices. Prometheus was meant to be a stand alone movie but they wanted to capitalise on the Alien brand so they shoehorned it in with disastrous results now, as you alluded to, everyone is doing these ridiculous mental gymnastics trying to retcon it all together.
I think that they should scrap everything after either Aliens or Alien 3 and start again from there. I prefer the idea of Aliens being so ancient that they are a mystery and I think that the Engineers and David's actions in covenant really detracts from that. The story of the Engineers is interesting but perhaps that should have just remained a separate franchise. The whole thing is ridiculously muddled now and it will only get worse no matter how much they try to explain. :-)
kinda reminds you of the bullshit going down in the FBI and congress.. bullshyt scenarios covered up by more shit that makes zero sense!
Indeed! Lots of different versions for everything. I would prefer Prometheus to be a stand alone movie without any connections to Alien and a pretty much elaborated history than the actual one they filmed.
thanks....i tried to put pieces together and gave up
I love these Alien channels. I listen to these clips over and over again
Same here
Awesome! I actually feel like buying Prometheus now and rewatch it with this detailed background in mind.
*Good video dude! There was another theory that the Space Jocky's suit is orgainic, and since the wearer died, the suit in term died, and decayed. Appearing to look fossilized. Therefore being falsely identified as 'fossilized'. So there's still a chance that it can be David.*
U need to upload more bro
he is not a machine tho
Loving your videos!! I just subscribed.
This is very well explained. Thank you my friend 👍🏻😀
7:37 The artist is pronounced "Gee-ger" and not "Guy-ger". Just a friendly FYI, thank you Kroft!
Ridley Scott said the space jockey=engineer
arachnus Then he ruined them
Scott will tell anything that leads to more work and recognition for him. This is what all directors do.
Hey man gotta say just started watchn and ur vids are pretty good hope to see more about deep lore in this universe.
I like the concept of the black goo urns turning into the Facehugger eggs using the material beneath the urns to construct them by the black goo. This explains the cargo hold of the derelict craft in the first Alien film. For the derelict had been crash landed there for a long time, giving ample opportunity for the urns to morph. Brilliant
Interference from Fox gave us a different Prometheus and Alien Covenant. If Fox would have stayed out of the movie we would have gotten two superior movies that had explanation to who the Engineers are, sub text to what the Engineer said to Mr Weyland and Shaw as well as a peek to the signal of the Juggernaut ship in Alien that Weyland and David were talking about. This is dissapointing. This should have been in the movie.
Ryan Johnson Someone who speaks absolute sense. I no longer have anything to do with these movies except with this interesting video.
THANK you! It's just the blind people that wanted to Xenomorph chomping peoples head on a ship. They ruined Covenant. Me on the other hand, I wanna know what are these Engineers? What's their damn purpose? What is their culture like? What do their cities look like? What happened 2000 years ago? Why did they create humanity? Why do they hate humanity? (Actually that one is pretty answerable)...... I want an actual story, plot and backstory that will keep me engaged and answer my questions....
@@flaminak7894 it made me sad when they did that
And the engineer speaks should have been kept in.
Prometheus is the first Alien series film i saw. Thus it has a bit of nostalgic value.
Thorsteinn Gislason I'm sorry to read this. 😣😣
Ignore the haters it's a great movie
Alan Peters Damn great movie, also Prometheus isnt really a Alien movie... It's way better than that.
I wish they stayed with the engineer story line. Thank you so much for your research and video, so interesting to hear the back story
Well done...your talent is out and serving others thank you
The space jockey wasnt actually fossilised it just appeared so to the explorers not knowing what they were looking at.
i love your voice bro
I have watch all the alien movie.yes there has been unanswered questions.your videos have helped me understand and connect all the movies together keep up the great work.
Dude your videos about Alien(s) are the best
But, but, who came first?
An egg or a Xenomorph? 🐣
Dat merch tho 👌
LOVE BOTH PREMETHUS AND COVENANT. STOP HATING HATER'S" !!!! WANT TO SEE MORE, MORE, MORE SCOTT." !!!!!
Wow man , you are so into this .
I think that's great .
I sometimes wonder what story we would have had if the movie makers had had more money.
I kinda think the Alien movies are a bit of a missed opportunity by kowtowing to studio expectations .
I really respect the depth that you go to in your exploration of the Alien universe.
I'll keep an eye out for future posts .
Great Vids Kroft
Does anyone ever say "Deacon" in Prometheus or "Space Jockey" in any of the movies?
NOt sure if it is in any of the movies, but the "pilot" of the spaceship in the first Alien was referred to as The Navigator in the deluxe laserdisc edition which included lots of the production design art.
Either the space jocky isn't actually ancient or they fucked up.
At this point in the franchise, it's definitely the latter.
Could the planetary atmosphere there make thongs fossilize faster?
Yeah it makes THONGS fossilize faster bahahah
You do an outstanding job, Kroft
Thanks so much for your videos, KROFT TALKS ABOUT MOVIES, I have enjoyed them quite a bit. Even had you only collected and shown the content without any opinions of your own, or discourse I'm sure people enjoy the comments, etc. I have not yet watched "Alien Covenant" and was due to watch Prometheus again, having only seen it about "1.5" times when it was released. My interests, and thus TH-cam subscriptions, feed, Etc., have been so distant from anything "pop culture" for many years now, and I didn't even know the Covenant film had been made. I enjoyed Prometheus a great deal, and being one who enjoys unanswered questions of all sorts, and very much so in all art forms including film, I was pleased with Prometheus, though understood the "wtf?" reactions from many viewers, and am not insulting that..."stance" , if you will. That said, I have enjoyed learning how much was in scripts, alternate takes, behind the scenes content, etc., etc., a great deal. When I do dip my toe in sci-fi it's hard for me not to (not that I stop myself) take a very deep plunge, and often allow it to take up a bit too much of my time, reading, and so forth. I'm just trying to have balance in what I take in and needed to cover so many holes in my classical education, I've had much "hole filling" to do, and love doing it. This is a long comment, sorry about that, I type quickly and am longwinded and rambling. Thanks so much for the channel, your work, and please continue to share even the smallest "scraps" you become aware of, regarding this franchise and any that you are interested in. Best regards, Kroft.
The Space Jockey should have remained a mystery. A fossilized alien life form, thousands of years old.
You could have explored this, but Ridley did so in about the worst way possible.
Laziness, no world-building, inability to formulate a space-faring culture, miscegination. Sounds correct for Hollywood.
Before Prometheus we were all please don't screw up the last bit of mystery with the space jockey, riddley Scott 'hold my beer'
I really like what was just mentioned about the mysterious (SPACE JOCKY) & the theory of who it might of been, and to add the set of theories of what might be in the works that was mentioned as well.
Love this channel👍
Kroft Rules.