Thanks Charlie. Have a friend who has a house in St Albans, listed for £1.05m last year but zero interest and they finally accepted an offer for £600k last week. Price crash is happening everywhere but media are hiding it!
Charlie. I overruled the agent at the outset.Said they were way over. We put it on at £290k. We were offered £235k after six months. Then £248k after eight months. We hung on and got a £256 offer in the autumn. Didn't want to look after it through another winter. Sale went through in December.
In order to find out the current exchange price of properties on a street I'm interested in, I recently went to an auction of a similar property in the next street just to hear what the buyer bid and exchanged on, as this is currently my only way of having immediate info!
Agreed about the pick 3 agents thing. When I sold in North London, I picked the one agency with a strong track record of achieving outlier sold prices, offices along the tube line, had the most professional, strong hardball agents & great area knowledge. They weren’t cheap even though I negotiated the fee but they achieved the aim (at least £100K more than the other agents on the high street). Also, I was not a big ticket priced house so made my smaller house looked cheap among the mansions. I interviewed other low fee agents but they were keen to get a quick churn sale & wanted me to lower the price. Picking the right agent is crucial.
Hi Charlie - as a retired developer I think one other major problem is that Nationwide, Halifax and others are peddling 'dodgy data' on prices which is misleading buyers. As an example I know of a large extended Georgian house near me in a good suburb of Derby which was on the market around 2 years ago for just shy of £1 million, didn't sell because it was overpriced and is now back on the market for 800k. Worth around 650/700 in my opinion. Still not selling at the reduced price
The place I'm renting is for sale. The landlord wanted £190k but the agent valued it at £165k in October 2022 but the landlord didn't listen and started at £185k. It's now at £155k and getting less than one view at month.
Ask him if he will do a rent to buy and sell it you the rent you pay won’t be much less than a mortgage would be… offer 165 and the landlord gifts you the deposit back for the mortgage within the offer 👀
My experience in 2022: After one week with an agent, and the house wasn't even advertised yet I received an email to lower the price because there had been no interest in the first week. That showed that they had this template email to send after the first week on autopilot. They hadn't even advertised the house yet!
Absolutely killing the market. A house in Derby went up for 750 in early 2023, came down firstly to 700 and to 650 before Christmas. I think it’s worth 575-600. Vendor won’t accept 600 because “they’ve already reduced by 100k”. 😂 That 100k reduction was simply correcting the absurd initial valuation. This sort of thing is rife atm.
Here around Kent, Gillingham, agents are limiting to putting up for sale signs meanwhile, zooplas and a like full of properties around here for sale and hardly any for sale signs. Another observation emails coming through with subject discounted properties where in reality its the same old price few weeks back.
A colleague of mine has just finished his first flip. I know the market really well in his area, but his agent has put it on for £30-£40k more than its worth (240k when the market is £200-210k). I asked him about it and he said he'd had little interest and would get them to drop the price to something more realistic! So both the seller and EA know its overpriced. Some nuggets in what you say, you need 2 competing buyers to understand true market value and that once you get competition they forget about the asking price. Very true.
A house near me has come on for £575K. No different from any other house in the same street. The highest any house achieved in that street at or around the peak of the market in summer 2022 was £485K. Offering 15% below asking price would still be above that. With that in mind, why would offering 20-25% below asking price in this downward market be unreasonable?
If I see anything like that I email the estate agent & ask if they've put the wrong number at the front on the listing 😂😂 They mumble their way out of it with the usual 🐂💩 but ultimately the house will be reduced a few weeks later!
Thank you Charlie for the ''competing bidders'' dialogue. Taken that on board for when I remarket my home (stuff to sort out before then). A bit of a back story; My home sold for £403k (1 bed flat right by the Thames, lovely views, ex local authority - Southwark) during September 2021. The place I was buying destroyed that chain. May 2023 it sold for £388,500 having listed at ''offers over'' £375k. September of last year my buyer (my neighbour) renegotiated me down to £375k before pulling out entirely in December citing that her stocks portfolio was diminishing. However, a few weeks ago I discovered the flat below me (exact same size and layout just like my place plus the home above me and the homes two and three floors below me) sold late last year for £425k. What gives? Granted my place does need a bit of TLC but it is not that bad. Before I found this out I was thinking of listing at £350k, then when I heard what the flat below me sold for I thought list it at £375k. Now with Charlie's ''competing bidders'' dialogue I am thinking somewhere between £350k to £375k. Would I like a bidding war? Yes please! When my home sold for £403k September 2021 it went on for £400k and had x2 bids each from three interested parties who all placed an offer then were invited back to make a final offer. The offer of £375k increased to £395,500, the offer of £390k increased to £395k, and the offer of £400k increased to £403k. Times have changed since then, eh. Hmmmmm, maybe list at £365k. I certainly would not sell to my neighbour again as she has proven herself to be unreliable. On another note: I viewed a property twice last summer situated the South part of BH4 (been on the market now for 7 months) and has been reduced from £275k to £260k (last reduction nearly 3.5 months ago). It is a 1 bed. Today another property in that same block of 11 flats came onto the market. Same floor, only difference is it with an extra bedroom albeit the overall size is very similar to the other one I viewed that is not shifting, listed at £360k, an extra £100k more, hahahaha. Good luck to the sellers. 9th of January 2024.
Overvaluing essentially makes the sale a dutch auction with the price being driven down until someone will accept. Unless they have knowledge of other bidder intentions this is likely to give a low price. A house is advertised for 300k. Buyer A wants to pay 250-290, buyer B will pay 256-280. No one bids. Price is dropped to 275, but both think it could be lower, no one bids. Drops again to 256, buyer B bids as it wont go lower. OR the seller values low first and you have an English auction which maximises the price with competing public bidding. Listed for 250, buyer A bids, 260 B bids, 270 A bids, 280 B bids, 290 A bids and wins.
Hi Charlie - I live in the US. I was wondering that even if you got the crazy price that you were asking, would the bank be happy to give the buyer the mortgage? We had seen cases in my area that deals fell through due to the bank refusing to make the loan.
This is the first time I have ever heard of technology being used as a counter to authoritarianism. Frankly I'm surprised there aren't assassins emerging trying to silence you. Keep up the good work.
A TH-camr called Michael Bordenero, (the American version of you Charlie), played a guitar solo at the end of one of his videos. No pressure though Charlie!
So many people i know are 100 % confidenced the houses will not crash and will be back to normal 2024😂😂😂 and yet there are stories like this think next 2 years will be ruff for some
could this also be an issue that causes distortion within the market, when a buyer pays less than asking price because the property was overvalued from the outset, and then thinking they got a bargain and in the back of their mind think its worth a lot more that they actually paid for it, when it wasn't
Rightmove has made record profits last year - what does that tell you? Property is not selling and people are listing for longer. Why would these sites want prices to drop lol. Don’t be fooled, prices are going down down down !
The other trouble is property is most peoples single biggest assets and if you have 10- 15 years of your work life invested in it you sure don’t want to under sell.
Charlie - do agents already have this (and more) data via Twenty Ci? Seen these on the Property Stats show, data seems v good. Agents have these stats, is your push to get the stats to us as buyers / sellers? Clearly agents already keep this data out of the public domain so your push might at least get it in the open.
We had our house in the market years ago and the agent said put it on for offers over 165k…… a few weeks passed and that same agent tried to argue to us that we should accept a £156k offer so we took it off the market
The market dictates the value of your house, not an estat agent. Seems a strange thing to do to take it off the market for a 5% lower offer. Were you not bothered about selling?
Why cannot all vendors issue a rics valuation with the sales material stops all this up selling overnight? I offer this on all my properties so there is no misrepresentation or agent BS involved
Everyone wants a quick sale. Sellers need to be taught that in a slow or falling market, a fair or keen market valuation is required. They need to impress upon shiny-suited estate agents that they prefer their property to be valued at a realistic price where it will quickly sell rather than be set at the highest valuation which will result in their property languishing on the market having had only a handful of viewers.
@MovingHomewithCharlie I'm trying to convince colleagues that this is the brutal truth, that one week of marketing equalling no viewings let alone offers has passed its peak online exposure and is therefore a call to action of a conversation with a seller straight away. As you pointed out, the fear of losing the instruction instils a feeling of failure... a catch 22 but the inconvenient truth.
It's always nice to work with people that you can meet in person but it's by no means necessary. What you need is a whole of market broker you feel you can really trust. If you can't meet in person, I would always suggest asking for a video call. Body language is a big trust indicator.
Never say never. If te best performing agents are given a way to share their performance metrics voluntarily on an impartial platform, then they will all need to start doing it or lose out.
Perhaps call it the "Open Property Index"? Not sure the phrase "open source" applies as that's more for code. Either that or the Open Data Property Index? I really hope it catches on. 👍 If you can reach a critical mass, then agents will want to contribute to get at the data for their own needs.
Correct me if I'm wrong Charlie but 2022 was a good year for housing market and 2nd half was peak prices! I viewed housing in Devon at end of 2022 and walked away from the market because everything was selling and for more than asking price! Devon was booming at that point from relocation and 2nd home buyers! This cottage must have been so badly overpriced! Devon prices have collapsed since August 2023, bet it not worth 200k now!
Do you really believe a significant nu mber of buyers will send your website their purchase prices? Once they have bought their property they have skin in the game and may even suddenly feel motivated to see property prices perceived to be going up, with nothing to gain by aiding your business model. If you are you offering them nothing but altruistic brownie points, I wonder how many will play the game.
It becomes public information anyway. If buyers don't, sellers might, agents might, conveyancers might, lenders might. We only need 1 of the 6 people involved in most transactions to report it.
Thanks Charlie. Have a friend who has a house in St Albans, listed for £1.05m last year but zero interest and they finally accepted an offer for £600k last week. Price crash is happening everywhere but media are hiding it!
Ooooffff...... 😬
I don't understand why the media is hiding it why is it in their interest too?
There is no price crash and neither will there be. Fiat currency is being decimated, house prices will double within next 10 years.
Whoa!
Charlie. I overruled the agent at the outset.Said they were way over. We put it on at £290k.
We were offered £235k after six months. Then £248k after eight months. We hung on and got a £256 offer in the autumn. Didn't want to look after it through another winter. Sale went through in December.
In order to find out the current exchange price of properties on a street I'm interested in, I recently went to an auction of a similar property in the next street just to hear what the buyer bid and exchanged on, as this is currently my only way of having immediate info!
Agreed about the pick 3 agents thing. When I sold in North London, I picked the one agency with a strong track record of achieving outlier sold prices, offices along the tube line, had the most professional, strong hardball agents & great area knowledge. They weren’t cheap even though I negotiated the fee but they achieved the aim (at least £100K more than the other agents on the high street). Also, I was not a big ticket priced house so made my smaller house looked cheap among the mansions. I interviewed other low fee agents but they were keen to get a quick churn sale & wanted me to lower the price. Picking the right agent is crucial.
Hi Charlie - as a retired developer I think one other major problem is that Nationwide, Halifax and others are peddling 'dodgy data' on prices which is misleading buyers. As an example I know of a large extended Georgian house near me in a good suburb of Derby which was on the market around 2 years ago for just shy of £1 million, didn't sell because it was overpriced and is now back on the market for 800k. Worth around 650/700 in my opinion. Still not selling at the reduced price
Nationwide and Halifax only have data for mortgaged properties.
Only 40% of properties are mortgaged and only 60% of sales involve a mortgage.
I guess that’s the price you want to buy it at.
Nationwide don’t set asking prices though, so I don’t see the link
@@rb5174because their data can lead people’s expectations I am guessing
The place I'm renting is for sale. The landlord wanted £190k but the agent valued it at £165k in October 2022 but the landlord didn't listen and started at £185k. It's now at £155k and getting less than one view at month.
Ask him if he will do a rent to buy and sell it you the rent you pay won’t be much less than a mortgage would be… offer 165 and the landlord gifts you the deposit back for the mortgage within the offer 👀
@@leemarsden1846 that's a good idea but there are a few things about the place that mean I'm not touching it with a barge pole!
Your right,bills for empty propertys add up aswell
My experience in 2022: After one week with an agent, and the house wasn't even advertised yet I received an email to lower the price because there had been no interest in the first week. That showed that they had this template email to send after the first week on autopilot. They hadn't even advertised the house yet!
Absolutely killing the market. A house in Derby went up for 750 in early 2023, came down firstly to 700 and to 650 before Christmas. I think it’s worth 575-600. Vendor won’t accept 600 because “they’ve already reduced by 100k”. 😂 That 100k reduction was simply correcting the absurd initial valuation. This sort of thing is rife atm.
Here around Kent, Gillingham, agents are limiting to putting up for sale signs meanwhile, zooplas and a like full of properties around here for sale and hardly any for sale signs.
Another observation emails coming through with subject discounted properties where in reality its the same old price few weeks back.
A colleague of mine has just finished his first flip. I know the market really well in his area, but his agent has put it on for £30-£40k more than its worth (240k when the market is £200-210k). I asked him about it and he said he'd had little interest and would get them to drop the price to something more realistic!
So both the seller and EA know its overpriced.
Some nuggets in what you say, you need 2 competing buyers to understand true market value and that once you get competition they forget about the asking price.
Very true.
A house near me has come on for £575K. No different from any other house in the same street. The highest any house achieved in that street at or around the peak of the market in summer 2022 was £485K. Offering 15% below asking price would still be above that. With that in mind, why would offering 20-25% below asking price in this downward market be unreasonable?
Perfectly reasonable if there are no other offers.
If I see anything like that I email the estate agent & ask if they've put the wrong number at the front on the listing 😂😂 They mumble their way out of it with the usual 🐂💩 but ultimately the house will be reduced a few weeks later!
I wish I had come across your channel before I put my house on. Probably would have sold it by now!
Thank you Charlie for the ''competing bidders'' dialogue. Taken that on board for when I remarket my home (stuff to sort out before then). A bit of a back story;
My home sold for £403k (1 bed flat right by the Thames, lovely views, ex local authority - Southwark) during September 2021. The place I was buying destroyed that chain. May 2023 it sold for £388,500 having listed at ''offers over'' £375k. September of last year my buyer (my neighbour) renegotiated me down to £375k before pulling out entirely in December citing that her stocks portfolio was diminishing. However, a few weeks ago I discovered the flat below me (exact same size and layout just like my place plus the home above me and the homes two and three floors below me) sold late last year for £425k. What gives? Granted my place does need a bit of TLC but it is not that bad. Before I found this out I was thinking of listing at £350k, then when I heard what the flat below me sold for I thought list it at £375k. Now with Charlie's ''competing bidders'' dialogue I am thinking somewhere between £350k to £375k. Would I like a bidding war? Yes please! When my home sold for £403k September 2021 it went on for £400k and had x2 bids each from three interested parties who all placed an offer then were invited back to make a final offer. The offer of £375k increased to £395,500, the offer of £390k increased to £395k, and the offer of £400k increased to £403k. Times have changed since then, eh. Hmmmmm, maybe list at £365k. I certainly would not sell to my neighbour again as she has proven herself to be unreliable.
On another note:
I viewed a property twice last summer situated the South part of BH4 (been on the market now for 7 months) and has been reduced from £275k to £260k (last reduction nearly 3.5 months ago). It is a 1 bed. Today another property in that same block of 11 flats came onto the market. Same floor, only difference is it with an extra bedroom albeit the overall size is very similar to the other one I viewed that is not shifting, listed at £360k, an extra £100k more, hahahaha. Good luck to the sellers.
9th of January 2024.
Overvaluing essentially makes the sale a dutch auction with the price being driven down until someone will accept. Unless they have knowledge of other bidder intentions this is likely to give a low price. A house is advertised for 300k. Buyer A wants to pay 250-290, buyer B will pay 256-280. No one bids. Price is dropped to 275, but both think it could be lower, no one bids. Drops again to 256, buyer B bids as it wont go lower. OR the seller values low first and you have an English auction which maximises the price with competing public bidding. Listed for 250, buyer A bids, 260 B bids, 270 A bids, 280 B bids, 290 A bids and wins.
Hi Charlie - I live in the US. I was wondering that even if you got the crazy price that you were asking, would the bank be happy to give the buyer the mortgage? We had seen cases in my area that deals fell through due to the bank refusing to make the loan.
That's happening a lot here. Mortgage lender down valuations.
This is the first time I have ever heard of technology being used as a counter to authoritarianism.
Frankly I'm surprised there aren't assassins emerging trying to silence you.
Keep up the good work.
A TH-camr called Michael Bordenero, (the American version of you Charlie), played a guitar solo at the end of one of his videos. No pressure though Charlie!
Perhaps add some verification for the purchase price e.g. uploading a redacted copy of the TR1
So many people i know are 100 % confidenced the houses will not crash and will be back to normal 2024😂😂😂 and yet there are stories like this think next 2 years will be ruff for some
could this also be an issue that causes distortion within the market, when a buyer pays less than asking price because the property was overvalued from the outset, and then thinking they got a bargain and in the back of their mind think its worth a lot more that they actually paid for it, when it wasn't
I understand that the average purchase price is about 93% of the asking price.
Rightmove has made record profits last year - what does that tell you? Property is not selling and people are listing for longer. Why would these sites want prices to drop lol. Don’t be fooled, prices are going down down down !
Rightmove profit from subscriptions and adverts.
Thank you Charlie.
Great video, thank you.
The other trouble is property is most peoples single biggest assets and if you have 10- 15 years of your work life invested in it you sure don’t want to under sell.
Why do agents overvalue? why is this a good strategy for them? they get pipeline, but do they get business if properties don't sell?
They do it to win business from each other. After that it only makes their job harder.
Charlie - do agents already have this (and more) data via Twenty Ci? Seen these on the Property Stats show, data seems v good. Agents have these stats, is your push to get the stats to us as buyers / sellers? Clearly agents already keep this data out of the public domain so your push might at least get it in the open.
No that’s just mostly asking price data and because Twenty CI has large agents as clients they won’t want to publish consumer friendly data
We had our house in the market years ago and the agent said put it on for offers over 165k…… a few weeks passed and that same agent tried to argue to us that we should accept a £156k offer so we took it off the market
You should have taken the offer
The market dictates the value of your house, not an estat agent. Seems a strange thing to do to take it off the market for a 5% lower offer. Were you not bothered about selling?
Can you not buy the unchecked land registry data ? Takes them ages to process data.. there will be corrections but better than waiting.
No it's not available until they publish the completion data.
Have I missed something, isn't the answer just a sample as looking at comparatives on Right move? Over the last year since market has been weak?
Just to conform sold house prices
No because rightmove doesn’t show up to date sold prices, only asking prices which are always more
question Charlie - what about purple bricks - are their valuations more realistic? or too low?
Usually too high. Avoid like the plague. Check out their recent reviews on trustpilot
I've had valuations of 450k 475k 500k 530k 535k 570k !!!! Bananas
570 it is then👍
@richardlongmuir8348 we dropped the highest and lowest , averaged the rest and went with that figure
@@paulshinh4334Works out to the same number (the average).
@@richardlongmuir8348😂😂😂😂
Why cannot all vendors issue a rics valuation with the sales material
stops all this up selling overnight?
I offer this on all my properties so there is no misrepresentation or agent BS involved
Everyone wants a quick sale.
Sellers need to be taught that in a slow or falling market, a fair or keen market valuation is required.
They need to impress upon shiny-suited estate agents that they prefer their property to be valued at a realistic price where it will quickly sell rather than be set at the highest valuation which will result in their property languishing on the market having had only a handful of viewers.
You have no idea, working at the coal face in agency....how bang on the money you are and agree it is the glue sticking the market to a standstill....
Thank you it’s always nice to hear this from an agent 👍🏻
@MovingHomewithCharlie I'm trying to convince colleagues that this is the brutal truth, that one week of marketing equalling no viewings let alone offers has passed its peak online exposure and is therefore a call to action of a conversation with a seller straight away. As you pointed out, the fear of losing the instruction instils a feeling of failure... a catch 22 but the inconvenient truth.
Ty Charlie! This funny TH-camr! 👊
Hi Charlie. Do you think a local mortgage broker (who I could meet in person) is essential/ preferable, or is this not necessary?
It's always nice to work with people that you can meet in person but it's by no means necessary. What you need is a whole of market broker you feel you can really trust. If you can't meet in person, I would always suggest asking for a video call. Body language is a big trust indicator.
Publicly available Estate Agent sales performance metrics needed but it’ll never happen.
Never say never. If te best performing agents are given a way to share their performance metrics voluntarily on an impartial platform, then they will all need to start doing it or lose out.
Perhaps call it the "Open Property Index"? Not sure the phrase "open source" applies as that's more for code. Either that or the Open Data Property Index?
I really hope it catches on. 👍 If you can reach a critical mass, then agents will want to contribute to get at the data for their own needs.
Correct me if I'm wrong Charlie but 2022 was a good year for housing market and 2nd half was peak prices! I viewed housing in Devon at end of 2022 and walked away from the market because everything was selling and for more than asking price! Devon was booming at that point from relocation and 2nd home buyers! This cottage must have been so badly overpriced! Devon prices have collapsed since August 2023, bet it not worth 200k now!
YEP!
Do you really believe a significant nu
mber of buyers will send your website their purchase prices? Once they have bought their property they have skin in the game and may even suddenly feel motivated to see property prices perceived to be going up, with nothing to gain by aiding your business model. If you are you offering them nothing but altruistic brownie points, I wonder how many will play the game.
It becomes public information anyway. If buyers don't, sellers might, agents might, conveyancers might, lenders might. We only need 1 of the 6 people involved in most transactions to report it.
Why not price 'offers over'?
Because that's a meaningless wish unless the asking price is definitely under market value.
It puts buyers off seeing that phrase.
As a buyer, this really annoys me. I tend not to even arrange a viewing as it makes the seller sound arrogant and not prepared to negotiate.
@@tealady55 Same here, I won't even look at a property that says offers over.
@@TheSanddancer unfortunately they are almost always ‘offers over’ here in Scotland!
East Kent massively over priced and the properties are in a cycle of on and off the market