Budget Build 351w vs 302 vs LS. Things just keep getting worse for our
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มี.ค. 2024
- I thought I had this thing ready to slap in a wicked swap, wrong... Now its back to the drawing board.
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/ @veteranrevivals - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Glad to see that LS Kicked to the side 🔧🚗🇺🇸🙌💪
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A budget is a budget whether it’s $5,000 or $50,000. All depends on how much you can afford or are willing to pay.
"speed costs money, kid, how fast ya wanna go?"
you are right, budget is relative. some of us get older and we're just happy to have a cruiser, not the fastest gas-gulper on cruise night.
Very true my budget is tight but my want list is a mile long 😭🔧🚗🇺🇸🙌💪 one peace at a time
@@fordtechlife Yep, just gotta plan the work and then work the plan. Too many change plans midstream to chase a fad. Get the car running, get it safe, worry about the quarter miles times later.
Glad to see no LS. You can some decent power with that 5.0L. Go with 1.7 ratio rockers if you use a B cam. You will get more out of it than stock 1.6. best of luck with the build!
Gonna stick with the 1.6 for now for two reasons; GT40 (unported) don't really flow enough to benefit for more than a B cam, and I don't want to go spend a bunch on new taller valve covers lol
I bought a 1998 Camaro Z28 with the LS1 in 1999, with 26,000 miles on the odometer. So, it was a used car with 10,000 miles left on the factory warranty. I test drove it. The Z28 seemed good. No smoke, no vibration, nothing. I drove it home and drove it around. It was good. A day later, I started it to go to work. It started tapping, not knocking. Tapping from the valvetrain. I tried to return the car. They talked me out of returning the car. It went into the dealership for warranty. The dealership told me the LS1 was new. According to the service advisor, they didn't have mechanics that were up to speed on the LS1. So, the advisor told me most likely the car would receive a new engine. A couple of days later, I called after the car. I asked about how much longer on the car, and the advisor said I could pick up the car. I asked about the new engine. The advisor said the shop steward looked at the car, and no warranty work was to be performed. I said I didn't understand? The advisor said the steward deemed the car as the previous owner neglected or abused the car. I said I bought the car, so I'm screwed? The advisor said he was sorry. I was given another vehicle to make up for the Camaro. I told the advisor that would be the last GM, I would buy. It has been the last.
In the spring of 2000, I bought a 1990 Ford Mustang 5.0 LX notch. It had 119,000 miles on the odometer. It had leaky MAC shorties, Hurst Competition shifter, and exhaust dumps. I still own the car. It still runs, and I'm considering a lower end check and refresh. Plus, I am planning an HCI upgrade. It has over 177,000 miles on the car. She deserves it. Keep that LS piece of junk away from that car. Don't go down that road.
Haha, sad story with a happy ending
@VeteranIdiot to be honest, the Mustang with the pushrod is way more impressive than an LS. I've worked on both. My Mustang never left me stranded. I've picked up buddies that are still LS fan bois. Even after their junk has left them on the side of the road. Build that Ford, better than this GM junk.
That 351w is not a roller block, so you would either take a chance breaking in a flat tappet cam or use link bar lifters or a reduced base circle camshaft and drill the block for the factory spider.
Correct, it is a thicker 74 block, plan was to later upgrade to roller.
Good choice man! Now youll save tons of money not having to change the 5.0 badges out!! 😂 But forreal that was the right choice
😂 I didn't even think about the badges!
Most "budget builds" you see online, or in the old car magazines, don't count the nickels and dimes that add up in gaskets, fasteners, etc. The good news about a basic "bearings, hone and gaskets" rebuild is you know what you're getting so it's worth it over a junkyard grab bag. Once you start really digging into a bottom end rebuild of something popular like Ford or Chevy, it's time to look at a stroker. Power adders tend to need higher octane fuel, and that adds to operating costs at the back end, esp. when we get greedy and add more boost or N2O. a stroker can be built to pump gas compression and let a good aftermarket head make the power and stay conservative on the camshaft....or then step up to a power adder.
I'll also add (because this video raises a good subject) that "budget" should probably include what it costs to install the engine. An LS can make cheap power in a dyno, but installing it in a car it wasn't designed for? that can raise the eventual cost.
Absolutely, on all points
Excited to see this finished, currently building a 1990 has gt40 heads and cam and headers soon and many more little things, hope to see yours cruising around town when it’s done
Hell yeah, excited to see what it'll do. I know it won't be crazy, but it should be fun!
Great video, tough choices but you're on the right track. There is a Richard Holdener video where he compared & dyno'd those 3 engines.
That video played a big part in the initial decision to go with 351. The 351 will make a comeback, just not right now lol
Screw the budget just do what you gotta do buddy. Build the 302 up and make it run good a reliable. You can always upgrade for more power down the road at least you will have a good base to start with.
That's the plan! 🤙
Don't overthink it. Build the 302 with as much as possible from the 351 stash. Return the rest.
That's the plan 🤙
Man I could see the smoke coming out of your ears from thinking so hard about this 😂😂😂we're on your side we feel your pain , I can surely see the route your taking with this and your way of thinking , best of luck on this future build
Thank you! 🤙🤙
Looking forward to the rebuild!!!
Great video, too many people go into budget builds and completely blow the budget out of the water.
Also I’ve done ALOT of LS swaps on all types of platforms if anyone actually wants to do a budget LS swap. Buy a smacked up Chevy truck / suv. By the time I’m done parting out the vehicles I’ve done in the past my swap usually ends up making me money.
That's a very good point!
I'm pretty pumped for the 5.0 rebuild!
🤙🤙🇺🇸🇺🇸
Yes! You’re headed in the right direction!
😂 thanks for the support
There are some really good performance parts available for the 302. I loved my 89 so much. I just couldnt afford to love her as much as she needed. underdrive pullies, msd all day, high flow exhaust, K&N, the list goes on. Man I loved that car. Wish you best of luck, enjoy.
Sounds like it was a ripper!
@@VeteranRevivals I tried not to launch it so much because it had a leak at the rear half moon oil pan seal.
Cool cant wait to see this build ive noticed the price of ford parts are through the roof specially for the foxbody mustang.Great video!!
Thank you! 🤙🤙
At some point I feel like another big block motorhome engine is gonna show up 😂
😂😂😂
Sounds like a plan I just did the same thing with a 302. With hopes of someday, putting all the good parts on a 351. It’s easy if you already have the parts like you’re talking intake, throttlebody, injectors, and swap parts for the 351
That's the hope haha
On my 351w swap into my 85 fox I used the whole truck / bronco front dress water pump also junk yard time
That would be nice
The 302 will be decent and gives you time to slowly build the 351 as budget permits. My 351 is collecting dust currently lol. My basic 302 is still plenty fun.
Exactly
It sounds like the right choice given your limited budget. I'm doing a budget build on '57 Ford and I was doing some rough math in my head and I'm into it for about 12K so far. These projects can be a money pit. But like I told my wife: If I wasn't doing this I'd be spending money on loose women so she's OK with my spending on cars!
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Your reasoning is sound. LS swap /= budget. You can cheaply make that 302 more powerful than the tires will hold on the street.
I’m 24 currently have a 393 in my 83 capri. Planing to turbo it soon. But I’m on my 6th block. Was running 351s for a minute but i usually find cylinder problems and low oil pressure problems. Haven’t found a good used 351 yet
Interesting. Where are you losing oil pressure?
Jesus 1600 for a stroker kit? Bro. 400 dollar 3.85 crank stock rods arp bolts and $380 dss pistons and 400 dollar block work. I’m less than 5 k into my car
@@VeteranRevivals I find them like that. I usually find 351w in New Mexico for 500-800 but have only gotten lucky twice. And one got lucky with a $200 no title field truck with a reman 351. But I always tear them apart and look at bottom end. Oil pumps opened and they are usually worn bad like the 5 psi one I had when I was 17
Definitely do new rings if you’re digging into it. So cheap
Already ordered up! 🤙🤙
Dude a 351w swap is really not that expensive, we did my 89 coupe for 1100 bucks just 3 months ago. Oil pan and pickup tube was 80 bucks, the alternator bracket was also off the 351w I ordered the oil pan for(85 ltd cop car) and bam, dropped right in. I went carb because mine was a factory 4 cylinder car
Correct, it can be cheap to swap. However, we went with some parts that we knew we would upgrade to at some point to midigate sunk cost (long tube headers, HEI, brackets to fit all our currently upgraded accessories). The train derailed when the swap would also include the cost of a complete rebuild and machine work.
@@VeteranRevivals I hear that. I habe a half ls7 swapped 2002 camaro because of the snowball parts acquisition lmao
😂
I think with these cars being as old as they are their really is no budget build. Your always going to need to buy parts that you didn't plan for then replace other parts due to age and then parts that hid their age till you got it back on the road.
Poor guy, old stang still fighting you at every turn
Black eyes and fat lips all the way around haha
Should have drinking game for the word budget lol
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Rebuild the 302
Then move on to the LS more down the line
You can do Art ,❤LoveJim J&R mobile service and God Bless Y'all and your critters
Do your self a favor buy a rotating assembly for the 302 and a performance cam you will know what you have and can sell it later for $ .
It may come to that 😂
A complete running Explorer GT40P is 500 bucks spring up grade and a Bcam your golden
Didn't want to do the the GT40p because of the offset spark plugs, but I think the 3 bar heads will be good enough to get us by for now haha
@VeteranIdiot I put a used P short block in my 66 got some used Edelbrock performer 5.0 heads half price and a used B303 half price. I originally bought the complete P for 300 with 118k on it but it looked new inside factory x hatching ect. I had just finished doing TRI Y's and didn't want to redo it so I got the Edelbrock heads. Since then I've found an easy mod for the TRI Y's to fit P heads .I'm building a 61 Falcon and this is the plan
Nice!
@VeteranIdiot my channel has some autox videos if your interested
$250 for that 351? Did you intentionally not look at it before paying?😉
If you aren't racing the Fox, it doesn't need to be high HP. You could always add NOS.
😂😂 there was a ton of "hope" riding on that one.
260 cid 289 cid insanelly strong . It goes downhill as size go up because the bigger the heavier . I donnot think they did graphite compressed iron block back then . 302 are thin walled . Not strong block .
Agreed, but it is what we can afford right now 😂
What is your goal ? If it's a refresh . Keep the 302 and put back the plastic tube . V8 are notorious for electrical false signal problem . Wich tell the computer to run conservativelly . Pay attention to big wire . Startor . Alternator battery wire ground . Big positive alone big negative alone . You'll likely need two copper washer to prevent the electrical wire from turning . Once installed ? A liberal coating of dielectric grease on electrical connector . How to hold wire ? It can not be metal collar . 18 wheeler use oversized zip tie and their respective plastic holder . If you use an oxygen sensor ground has to be alone and sent to the ecm ground wire . Remove the ignition coil . Usually you do not want a support ground but your coil model seem to be open . I would isolate coil . Peace of wood . And ground it directly to ? I think your car ground via ignition switch ? If not send a wire directly to battery . Basically you do not want chassis ground . Chassis ground and exaust ground make car rust in na . Most car issue are electrical false signal . One fixed . Ask ford to reinstall program software firmware . Your engine 302 seemed to run fine in second video mustang serie . It looked like it needed freshening up and huge electrical wire proper no touching job . Wire were isolated but touching is touching . With isolant less but it's still touching . Do not use rubber coater metal clamp to hold any electrical wire . Airgapping wire is time consuming once in the car so pre plan to do it while engine is out . Hope this help . I do not think you'll need gt40 head on a 302 . Most stock 302 were never run without electrical false signal . If you are not budy with a multimeter ? Ignore the electrical coil
Sounds like switching to carb is easier 😂
carb or elctronic both have the isolated wire touching issue . The rule of thumb ? If your thumb does not pass around the wire ? The owner will have gremlin with the vehicule .take rubber coated metal loop . They also cause issue . It's a faraday cage thing if 2 wire are in the same loop or touching .plastic tie are ideal . Special zip tie holder can keep say old cylindrical ignition coil away from metal . The owner would likely not need the distributor condensator . An old mechanic petrol head on youtube mention point system require 8 volt not 12 volt . To be versified per brand i suspect
Thats why you dont buy marine engine cores.
Haha yes lesson learned
If interested i have canton oil pan and pick up for 302, i dont need, i also got fms x cam also, if serious let me no,
I've got extra 50 Oz flywheel & 28 Oz, new clutches, fluidamper can't remember all of it all for grabs, u pay for shipping all I ask
Hell yeah, I'll keep that in mind. I've already flattened out this pan and ordered a cam but if I need any of that I'll definitely shoot you a message!
@@VeteranRevivals sure thing, it is free by the way, glad u stayed ford.
Boy you really did a job selling a slower less powerful engine to yourself. 😂 we all know what TDF wanted, tell him to inject some more budget and make it fun
I was hoping 351. Sell the ls it’s causing you mental grief. Take that money and get back on track with the 351 What is the hurry build your budget then build your 351.
The hurry is, running projects are more beneficial haha. I can build the 351 in the background while beating the snot out of this 302.
I agree, sell the LS. I live in NC and aluminum 5.3s and 6.0s sell for 1500 on the low end all day long
That 351w will hold more power reliable vs that 5.0 won’t! I’d rethink that for a min and watch Richard holder on TH-cam! By the time you sink all that money into the 5.0 you won’t make no where near what the 5.8 351w would’ve made! Research this a little bit more
Unfortunately, all the machine work, pistons, etc just isnt in the budget at this time.
Yes 302 that right fuck that LS
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Suck it up and do it right. Budget and rebuilding do not go hand in hand. Especially when you buy parts before you open your motor. Keep it Ford Racing
Unfortunately, timelines push circumstances and force you to hope the engine is good before even seeing it. Given a carefree, timeline free build, absolutely I would count my chickens after they hatched.
You keep saying budget, but nothing is budget about anything you are doing. Sniper.......a complete and utter waste of money compared to a basic Edelbrock carb, unless you NEED the fuel injedtion for tuning around a big cam or sipping fuel on the freeway. I have a sniper on my 1972 c10 BBC. Neat, but no better than the 3310 I took off since the Holley ran fine. The 351 Windsors are born turds even with gt40 heads it will make more bottom end and less top end than the 302 no matter what, given the same heads and intake flow. The 302 with a carb is the only budget way to get it done and run good. A9L computers are poo poo. i have dyno tuned them many many times back in the day. Never made good power, usually ended up pulling the spout and locking it. You would save a ton of money if you bought a COMPLETE 4.8 Lr4 ....they go for around 300-500 here in Houston and Canyon Lake. If you are close I would give you a complete accessory setup intake and rails and alll I have it left over from builds. Ebay imitation Holley 302 oil pan works great. If you use the truck balancer, you can use the truck ac compressor in it's stock location. If you end up deciding on LS, hit me up and I can save you a TON of money. You would be very happy with a cammed or even stock 5.3.
Thank you! I will keep it in mind! I agree, the A9L is a massive limiting factor.
Yawning
Sometimes you just gotta make a boring video 🤷🏻♂️
Definitely not a boring video. Help other people like me decide on what to do with my coupe as well.
Ls swap 🤗😘
Trade me for the Fairmont, you won't