Togedemaru is still the designated "Pikaclone" in Gen 7 and Mimikyu is more like an "anti-clone" in a way...frankly they should've made more skins for Mimikyu based on different Pokemon so it shows it may also be jealous of other Pokemon like Pikachu.
@@thecatlord661 He's literally designed to be a shitty version of Ryu as Capcom's way of mocking SNK for Ryo from Art of Fighting, who looks and plays extremely similar to Ryu. He even has mimicries of some of Ryo's moves like both his Ultras in SF4.
my favorite clone character is fukua from skullgirls, she was initially shown off as a joke character but people actually liked her so they ended up putting her in the game seriously, she reuses a lot of filia's animations but has a handful of new ones and even uses some of filia's scrapped animations, and she also plays entirely differently with an entierly unique set of specials and supers and the ability to create clones of herself, she's basically a whole new character created by reusing and repurposing another character's sprites
Clones can also grow over time. DMC3 Vergi's moveset was somewhat derivative of Dante, but DMC4 revamped him so much that the two played incredibly distinctly, and by the time of DMC5, neither really resembles the other whatsoever, and their playstyles are incredibly different. Raiden in MGS2 plays literally exactly how Solid Snake does, and so does Big Boss in MGS3... but as of MGSV and MGR, Big Boss and Raiden are completely unique to Solid Snake.
I don't think calling Raiden and Big Boss clones make sense. MGS2 Raiden had the HF-Blade, which changed his playstyle a lot. Big Boss in 3 had CQC, which completely changed how combat worked in MGS. And of course MGS4 Snake would play differently from MGSV Big Boss and MGRR Raiden. They all have differing mechanics. Heck, Rising isn't even a stealth game. It's a hack and slash character action game.
...How is Vergil in DMC3 at all similar to Dante? Even their Beowulf move sets are entirely different with the exception of Starfall. Only really Force Edge has them get a somewhat comparable move list but Vergil's Force Edge moveset has a completely different flow to it than Dante's Rebellion given the only actual overlap it has with Rebellion is both having Stinger, High Time and Helm Breaker.
In Sonic The Hedgehog 2 and 3, Tails is slightly shorter than Sonic (and Knuckles in S3&K) and wouldn't get crushed to death by certain reappearing ceiling spike traps in narrow tunnels. That and he also can't turn Super from collecting the 7 Chaos Emeralds or play the Doomsday Zone (at least without the Level Select cheat).
What's easy to dismiss as laziness is usually some sort of constraint: time, money, memory, etc. It would be great to live in a universe where developers had all the time, money, and technical specs they needed to bring their imaginations to life, but reality is a different story, and clones are an effective way to optimize.
Something I think would have been interesting to address here would be rival characters such as Virgil because the whole thing with them is that your fighting something that's basically you
For those confused, the Smash fandom tends to call derivatives as "semi-clones"; both names essentially have the same meaning, something you can tell was cloned but that also still clearly went through plenty of changes on its own. As for me, I don't consider Mimikyu a Pikachu clone at all; it was intended as a twist on the Pikachu clone pattern to begin with. It's a spinoff, but that's kinda why I groan whenever people put it up as their "favorite Pikachu clone"... because when I see it, I hardly see a clone any more, it's its own thing. (The main reason I dislike it is simply because it's always put in the ballpark of those actual derivatives, giving them no chance to shine at all by overshadowing them)
I agree with you, but I may be biased because Mimikyu is my favorite Pokémon. I don't consider it a Pikachu clone since it's not electric type or even a rodent, it's some sort of ghostly monster that is so horrifying to look at that anyone who sees it dies of terror
Does mimikyu have other costumes in the anime or something, cuz i dislike how it makes it canon that pikachu is the pokemon worlds most favorite pokemon which is why it copies pika. Also wonder how it would work if the mystery dungeon game came out, like what all mimikyus would be fans of a world famous pikachu?? Anyways i wish it had more costumes cuz i hate it only copying pikachu
I like to think that biologically speaking, Mimikyu isn't really a Pikachu clone. See the clones seem to be based on divergent evolution which is when an animal evolves into multiple different animals, like how dogs and foxes both originate from wolves, or how different kinds of rodents are speculated to be related. Pikachu and it's clones all likely look the same because they share a common ancestor. Mimikyu meanwhile seems to be based on Mimicry which is when an animal intentionally looks like a different animal to be treated differently. For example the Viceroy butterfly looks like the poisons monarch butterfly so that predators avoid eating it, or the mimic octopus which act's like other dangerous animals like the lionfish in order to avoid being attacked. Mimikyu isn't a Pikachu clone because it's based on a completely different evolutionary phenomenon.
I think KOF99 - KOF2001 sums up "clones" perfectly well, where you have literal clones of the series protagonist Kyo Kusanagi (Kyo1 and Kyo2, who were excuses to keep his old fighting style on the roster), derivatives like K' (Not really a clone, but has some elements of Kyo in him) and I... guess ascended with K9999? (While story-wise another Kyo clone, furthest thing from it. In fact, he's a literal Tetsuo-from-Akira clone, right down to the voice actor and crazy arm thing.) Probably not the best example, but yeah. This awesome video had me thinking.
Tails has gameplay differences in Sonic 2. He has a shorter collision box meaning he won't get crushed in some places where Sonic will. Tails also does not have a Super in Sonic 2.
"it can definitely suck when a clone takes up a spot in the roster of your favorite game instead of someone cool and new" See, this right here is the problem with the way people treat clone characters. There's no set number of characters in a roster when the game is being developed. If there's more or less characters then the character select screen will be changed accordingly. There's no "taking up a spot" or being in the game "instead of" another character, the truth is, if that clone character wasn't in the game, there would just be one less character. Clones are easier to develop and that's their whole point. The development team might not have the time or resources to make more fully fledged characters, so adding clones is just a bonus. Copy paste an existing character, make a few changes, and now there's an extra character. If that's all the devs had time to do before the game released, how are they supposed to make an entirely unique character instead in that same time? It's either throw in a clone or ship the game with one less character, and personally I'll take that extra bonus character
Yea I agree. I have zero problems with the ryu derivatives or the mashimas in the tekken series. I think its genius of the developers to shorten the length of time creating a character by using the core ideas of another.
@@door_productions4896Not really. Clone characters take 1/4 - 1/2 of development time that a unique character does. Game developers only have a finite amount of time to develop and put out a game; adding clones to fighting games usually happens near the tail end of the game which is why it'd be much easier to add 1-4 clones than spend all that time on a completely new character, especially so close near the finish line.
@@door_productions4896Since they come at the very end of a game's development schedule, that basically means the game developers had enough time to pad out the roster, but not enough time to create a completely new character from scratch. That's why it's dumb to use the argument "that's time that could have been better spent elsewhere" when it really doesn't take away from their original roster plans; they're just extra content.
I think that, Clones are important to video games. They are mostly useful as the player 2 option, and even when not allows the players more freedom between characters to choose. If it is a Sonic Adventure 2 kind of situation, it allows more personalities to be explored and perhaps some slight gameplay changes, those being Sonic, Eggman and Knuckles being the most advanced gameplay styles due to having the most stages. But where clones fail the most is in Fighting Games when they take up a new slot. The 3 Link's for example, yeah I would not see either of the small Links as a clone of Adult Link, more of a spinoff. Tho, I would count Toon Link as a clone, aka Echo, of Young Link. In Fighting Games, clones should be held to a Minimum, and when added in still give enough changes. Like turning strong solohits into weaker multihits that, if done right do more damage but when wrong less. Make the gameplay Unique enough that you can have a preverence
I kind of like how Ganondorf has sort of went from a Falcon clone to a hard hitting brute. Like his neutral B is a powerful backhand punch and his side B is him pretty much picking an opponent by the neck and seemingly crushing their throat pipe. That sort of suits Ganondorf in my eyes. He's like a brooding dictator who will neutralise a threat personally if anyone dare oppose him. A sort of Darth Vader type. You don't cross him. Very intimidating. He'll only his weapon against certain opponents either to face off one-to-one or to finish them off. I might be overthinking this...
Mimikyu seems more like a subversion than a true clone. It references Pikachu with it's design, but the facade of looking like Pikachu is as skin deep as it gets, with what's underneath being entirely different. Both literally in the sense that the Pokemon is literally wearing a costume, and figuratively in the sense that it plays so completely differently to Pikachu that considering them even slightly the same thing is ridiculous. I also wouldn't call Zero in the MMX series a clone at all really. He has a unique design and playstyle entirely to both the original Rock/Mega Man, and X, and his personality is unique as well. If we're going to start calling him a clone, we might as well just start calling every character a clone.
1:06 The NES could only display 3 colors per pallet, 4 pallets per screen. Because of the pallets that the world is using at that point, the the brown Goomba wouldn’t work with the color pallets being used so he would switch with the pallet of the level. Underground uses blues, so blue Goomba. Overworld has brown so Goomba is brown. Castle has grays so Goomba is gray.
This was a great video, and I love the way you categorize everything and how comprehensive and concise it feels. However, correction on clones “taking up a spot of someone new”: that’s pretty much never true. Clone characters take way fewer resources to develop than brand new characters. This is because they’re using the design and programming work of an already completed character as a base and changing parameters on their attributes and moves, which is substantially easier, faster, and cheaper than making a brand new character. So the work that went into making Ken or Chrom, for example, was not work that could have instead gone into making a character like Waluigi unless Waluigi himself would ALSO be an echo. Aside from that one thing, great video as usual. EDIT: Guys, I’m not complaining about Echo Fighters, my secondary is Dark Pit! It’s like Sakurai said, “imagine clones are like a free dessert on top of your meal” (paraphrasing here). I don’t even care about Waluigi, I just know he’s a popular pick.
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 No, that's not how you play the game. Sakurai *Literally* said, clones are like a dessert. You dont have to have them, but they just add to the game experience. Clones are added because they can be put in the game *very* easily. You're acting like they're replacing new characters like Sora, or Banjo, but they're not even taking a slot, they're making a new slot for themselves.
Very nice overview! I like how you mentioned several characters that started as clones and then later became their own thing. There's also a case where kinda the opposite happened. In the Crash Bandicoot games, Coco Bandicoot had her playable debut in the third game, but she was only available for special vehicle segments. The first game where you could play as her properly however, I'd argue she was a semiclone/derivative of Crash, as her moveset was fairly different. She generally felt inferior to Crash, but she had her own levels which helped me appreciate their differences more. Then when the original three games were remade, as well as in the lrecent Crash 4, she is pretty much a reskin of Crash as she plays the exact same and can be played in pretty much every level. From what I remember though, this was generally reacted to positively, as it was probably a better fit for that kind of game to give us characters with identical gameplay. Crash 4 did add other playable characters that played very differently, but those again had levels specifically designed around them. Whilst Crash and Coco were the interchangable default protagonist for every standard level.
Katana ZERO has a chapter where you could play as a different character, who replaces the ability to throw items with an instant travel slash. It's a small change in gameplay, but really sells the sheer power of the character. he is also the hottest man in the game.
One of my favorite clones in video games is Bass Forte Wily to Rock 'Mega Man' Light. Unlike X and Zero in the X saga, Bass is more of a frenemy rival to Rock in the Classic saga; sometimes an enemy that wishes to destroy him to assert himself as the strongest, but often working alongside him for the same goal. He also respects humans like Rock does, as they are responsible for Robot Masters existing, and aren't revivable like they are. Though he has an almost-comical superiority complex, Bass unites with Rock over both their allegiance with humans and their conflict with the villains(mainly Dr. Wily, as well as secondary ones like King). He's less moral-driven than Rock is, but he isn't heartless either. I've heard similar things with Dark Pit in Kid Icarus Uprising, though I'm more familiar with Mega Man over Kid Icarus, so I'm going with familiarity.
Great video! I've always been a sucker for clones/derivatives for some reason, from Shadow to Princess Daisy to Falco in Melee I always seem to choose them over the original.
I don't know if the goomba is a great example of clones since I'm like 99% sure that blue goomba isn't supposed to be a new enemy, just the regular gooma in darker lighting
Here are some more clones: 1. That red Sonic as well as the yellow Sonic from the unused SEGA Sonic Bros. Game 2. Mighty in knuckles chaotic being a slightly redesigned version of Sonic from the prototypes 3. Golden Freddy 4. All of the phantom animatronics 5. Dark pit 6. All different colors of the original Toad 7. Metal Sonic isn't a copy as in a pallet swap, but he's a robot clone made by Eggman 8. Bowser Jr. Is identical to Baby Bowser 9. Kamek looks exactly like every other Majikoopa 10. Repeaters are slightly altered peashooters 12. Copy robot is identical to Mega Man in the original Mega man 13. "Evil Sonic" also known as Surge is a slightly altered Sonic 14. Minecraft Zombies are Steve with some changes 15. Mooshrooms are pallet swaps of cows but with slight changes
Misnomer: Clone characters do not take up a 'slot' on the roster because their development time is drastically decreased due to having base materials and a finished model to work of off. Smart devs will create them in parallel to cull even more busywork out of the process. Please stop saying clones take up slots, friends. They don't.
They work that went into making a clone could've had a LITTLE bit more put in to make that 1 for 1 a semiclone at best. So yes, they do take up a slot in a sense. Maybe not in the way you're thinking, but the likes of the Smash clones could've been removed to make way for maybe half that space to be filled with characters of more substance.
@@espurrseyes42 The real problem is how bloated the cast is. Like several content creators have stated, the next Smash game would benefit greatly from the cast being cut down and having each character own their own playstyle instead of so many moves being shared between nearly the entire cast. Somehow it's diverse, but not.
@@ArclinusCastoral Quality over Quantity is what you mean. The Smash Ult roster is huge and full of tons of heavily gimmicky characters with lots of effort put into them, but there's also a hefty amount of clones one can point to to say the roster is being padded by asset flips. As opposed to the Brawl roster of 40ish unique characters save for the like 3 or 4 semiclones.
Mario Bros was that tight on space that it not only didn't have space for a change of space for the sprite, they don't have space for another pallete of collor so they reciucle the Koopa(turles) pallete, they continued doint it at least on Super Mario Bros and Lost levels(original release in Japan).
The musou series live and die by its original characters, a game like hyrule warriors is always fresh with different characters while fire emblem warriors had you pay for DLC that were clones of the same characters in the base game.
Imagine making a video about clones in video games and not bringing up Yo-Kai Watch and all its Jibanyan variants that play uniquely including the one you can customize yourself with Originyan.
A video talking about clones in video games and no mention of Big Boss? No Solid or Liquid, Solidus Snake? Literally the best example of a clone and it gets over looked. Metal Gear franchise one of the most underrated game ever.
Injustice 2 is great for this. Cheetah has a vixen clone. Different voicelines, different intro interactions, different super move cutscene, exact same moveset
Sometimes I rather have a clone character that adds a twist and may even end up being funner than the base character than a new one that may not click with me, as long as there aren't too many clones.
A good example of this is Li'l Judd from Splatoon, that little kitten is a literal clone, knows it, and absolutely *_Hates_* it. It's to the point where the series has been kinda dropping hints that Li'l is gonna do something plot significant. I mean the series has literally said that Li'l is waiting to stab the original Judd in the back.
Honestly I don't have problems with the clones/derivatives themselves, I only dislike them when or they don't make sense (Ganondorf-Capitan Falcon) or when they are too many of the same (4 Marths or the 3 Links). Other than everything is fine as long as you cans we why they are similar and they don't go beyond 2 clones.
I think Metal Sonic, fit on the idea o a "spin off", it go a step futher to be the evil clone of Sonic, he match his skill but is far from a 1 to 1 copy, he hover instead of run, and have a few unique tricks like the shield and energy blast, inclusive have his own Super forms that exploit his Robotic nature rather than be a replica of Super Sonic
Imma be real, I think Smash is the worst example of clones, as I think the majority of them are lazy or even just entirely aesthetic. The best clone imo is Fukua from Skullgirls. A clone of Fillia, even reusing the same sprites and collisions on her moves, but almost all of them have different properties from Fillia, and she utilises clones herself. Her kit essentially resembles Fillia on a visual level and that's pretty much it, she's entirely her own thing. There's practically no overlap, a Fillia player can't play Fukua and vice versa. Still very much a pallete swapped clone, but a ton of effort was made to have her stand out, she feels intelligently made and a worthwhile addition to the cast the game would be lesser without. Efficient AND meaningful clone!
I'm surprised you didn't mention clone characters in Mario Kart. That's right there would be the argument against clone characters. There doesn't need to be a metal Mario when there's already a Mario and there doesn't need to be pink gold peach when there's already a peach, not to mention I don't think pink gold peach ever existed before Mario Kart 8 came out. I mean at least metal Mario have been around thanks to the metal cap in Super Mario 64 as well as fighting metal Mario in Super smash Bros single player mode and fighting metal Mario and metal Luigi in melee's adventure mode, but where the hell did pink gold peach come from? They could have put so many other different choices of characters there because the Mario cast is just so broad with so many different characters. Not to mention five different light characters taking up by baby versions of already existing medium size and heavy characters? Pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
I'd argue that Metal Mario exists to let you play Mario while in a heavier weight class, but it that REALLY something so important that they need a clone of an existing character? And the you've got Gold Mario and Pink Gold Peach... At least the Babies were established characters (minus Rosalina's and Daisy's), so they don't feel as bad even though they serve a similar purpose of "Lightweight" versions of existing characters.
I guess Isabelle isn’t a clone of Villager. They only share down-smash and dash-attack and and up-air animations. Up-special looks different but functions the same. I’m finally letting go.
So this begs the most important political and existential question of all. A question that may change the fate of the USA as a nation: Is Dee Jay a clone of Guile?
I guess if you're really lenient with your definition of "clone". They're both charge characters with "wind slash" projectiles and a kick-based reversal/damage-ender. But they're visually distinct from each other on top of all the unique stuff Dee Jay has over Guile's barebones kit. I'd sooner say Charlie/Nash is a clone before Dee Jay since the former straight up uses Sonic Boom and Flash Kick or variants of them on top of having actual lore connecting him to Guile.
Fun fact: in Japanese Pong, the Left paddle is a clone of the original Right paddle
ok this was funny
@@neonthunder3261tell me you havent watched the video without telling me you havent watched the video
@@thechugg4372 Bro it’s a joke about how Japan reads right to left out here pressed over a TH-cam comment
@@thechugg4372 tell me you don't get the joke without telling me you don't get the joke
Best comment
I love how in pokemon, there always seems to be some sort of pika-clone. Then in sun/moon the decided "let's scare some kids"
Wym?
Togedemaru is still the designated "Pikaclone" in Gen 7 and Mimikyu is more like an "anti-clone" in a way...frankly they should've made more skins for Mimikyu based on different Pokemon so it shows it may also be jealous of other Pokemon like Pikachu.
@@zjzr08 maybe one day
@@zjzr08 Perfect idea for a regional variant.
It's really refreshing when a TH-camr talks about a variety of games and genres and ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT WITH EACH of THEM👏👏
Thanks for the kind words!
@@kirotalksyt Why did you call Dan Hibiki a loser? Just because he’s not a good fighter doesn’t make him “loser”.
@@thecatlord661 i’m pretty sure dan was designed to be a ‘loser’ character
@@thecatlord661
He's literally designed to be a shitty version of Ryu as Capcom's way of mocking SNK for Ryo from Art of Fighting, who looks and plays extremely similar to Ryu. He even has mimicries of some of Ryo's moves like both his Ultras in SF4.
YES once I saw a review for Sonic Generations which said the entire game was bad even though it really wasn't
Actually, Tails in Sonic 2 had a smaller hit box than Sonic + he can’t have a super form
Okay
Actually 😂😂
🤓
I didn’t think people actually spoke like this wtf 😭
🤓
my favorite clone character is fukua from skullgirls, she was initially shown off as a joke character but people actually liked her so they ended up putting her in the game seriously, she reuses a lot of filia's animations but has a handful of new ones and even uses some of filia's scrapped animations, and she also plays entirely differently with an entierly unique set of specials and supers and the ability to create clones of herself, she's basically a whole new character created by reusing and repurposing another character's sprites
Clones can also grow over time. DMC3 Vergi's moveset was somewhat derivative of Dante, but DMC4 revamped him so much that the two played incredibly distinctly, and by the time of DMC5, neither really resembles the other whatsoever, and their playstyles are incredibly different.
Raiden in MGS2 plays literally exactly how Solid Snake does, and so does Big Boss in MGS3... but as of MGSV and MGR, Big Boss and Raiden are completely unique to Solid Snake.
That's cause Capcom took what they thought were good ideas from Vergil's Downfall and then expanded on those
Ken is mostly unique to Ryu. He plays totally different
I don't think calling Raiden and Big Boss clones make sense. MGS2 Raiden had the HF-Blade, which changed his playstyle a lot. Big Boss in 3 had CQC, which completely changed how combat worked in MGS.
And of course MGS4 Snake would play differently from MGSV Big Boss and MGRR Raiden. They all have differing mechanics. Heck, Rising isn't even a stealth game. It's a hack and slash character action game.
...How is Vergil in DMC3 at all similar to Dante? Even their Beowulf move sets are entirely different with the exception of Starfall. Only really Force Edge has them get a somewhat comparable move list but Vergil's Force Edge moveset has a completely different flow to it than Dante's Rebellion given the only actual overlap it has with Rebellion is both having Stinger, High Time and Helm Breaker.
Shadow is a literal clone but also not because sonic was born after him and shadow was copied from a mural prophecy of sonic ? Nuts lore
Its funny because during this older age of gaming with "clones"....even the evil "clones" had such an aura of mystery behind them for the most part.
Sometimes those pallete swaps are really gorgeous too!!
Luigi is the best exemple
In Sonic The Hedgehog 2 and 3, Tails is slightly shorter than Sonic (and Knuckles in S3&K) and wouldn't get crushed to death by certain reappearing ceiling spike traps in narrow tunnels. That and he also can't turn Super from collecting the 7 Chaos Emeralds or play the Doomsday Zone (at least without the Level Select cheat).
I see Kiro, I click
what a guy
truly one of the people of all time
i see sonic, i click
I see comment, I reply
I Sekiro, I shadows die twice
What's easy to dismiss as laziness is usually some sort of constraint: time, money, memory, etc. It would be great to live in a universe where developers had all the time, money, and technical specs they needed to bring their imaginations to life, but reality is a different story, and clones are an effective way to optimize.
Something I think would have been interesting to address here would be rival characters such as Virgil because the whole thing with them is that your fighting something that's basically you
1:53 right as you said skins, I got a ad for a skin care product.😂
Man, so many notable clones, and I'm probably only scratching the surface with this list of ones I know about:
- Mario: Wario, Shadow Mario, Bowser Memory M, Dreamy Mario
- Luigi: Waluigi, Mr. L, Bowser Memory L
- Peach: Daisy, Princess Shroob
- Bowser: Dry Bowser, Midbus, Dark Bowser
- Toads: Shroobs
- Yoshi: Boshi, Yoob
- Wario: Shake King
- Link: Dark Link, Ravio
- Zelda: Hilda
- Samus: Dark Samus, SA-X, Raven Beak
- Captain Falcon: Blood Falcon
- Popo (Ice Climber): Nana
- Chrom: Lucina
- Robin: Grima, Morgan
- Corrin: Kana
- Alear: Past Alear
- Pit: Dark Pit, Pit's Body
- Palutena: Pseudo-Palutena
- Snake: Liquid Snake, Big Boss, Venom Snake
- Raiden: Raikov, Sam
- Sonic: Mecha Sonic, Metal Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Classic Sonic
- Olimar: Louie, President, Alph, Brittany, Charlie
- Mega Man: Proto Man, Quint, Bass, Mega Man?
- X: Copy X
- Zero: Omega
- PAC-MAN: Toc-Man
- Shulk: Zanza, Malos
- Melia: "Queen of Keves"
- Nia: "Queen of Agnus"
- Noah: N
- Mio: M
- Ryu: Ken/Violent Ken, Akuma/Oni, Sean, Sakura, Dan, Gouken, Evil Ryu/Kage
- Guile: Nash
- Cammy: Juri, Juli, Decapre (all of the Dolls, really)
- Scorpion: Sub-Zero, Reptile, Noob Saibot, Smoke, Ermac, Tremor, Rain
- Kitana: Mileena, Jade, Tanya
- Sektor: Cyrax, Cyber Sub-Zero, Cyber Smoke
- Johnny Cage & Sonya Blade: Cassie Cage
- Goro: Kintaro, Sheeva
- Sol Badguy: Holy Order Sol
- Ky Kiske: Robo-Ky
- Nu-13: Lamba-11
- Kazuya: Devil, Angel, Jin (well, in Tekken 3)
- Nina: Anna
- King: Armor King
- Kuma: Panda
- Filia: Fukua
- Ms. Fortune: Robo-Fortune
- Cloud: Zack
- Yuna: Isaaru, Belgemine
- Tidus: Shuyin
- Dante: Vergil
- Viewtiful Joe: Silvia, Alastor, Captain Blue
- Bayonetta: Joy, Jeanne, Rosa
- Wonder-Red: Vorkken
- Legionis: Akira Howard, Raven Corps
- Inklings: Octolings
- Joker: Akane's Joker
- Spring Man: Springtron
- Steve: Zombie
- Sora: Anti-Sora, Roxas, Xion, Vanitas, Data-Sora, Sora's Heartless
- Riku: Riku-Ansem, Riku Replica, Data-Riku
- Roxas: Data-Roxas
- Aqua: Phantom Aqua, Anti-Aqua
- Terra: Terra-Xehanort, Lingering Will
- Ventus: Armored Ventus Nightmare, Ventus-Vanitas
- Shovel Knight: Black Knight, Polar Knight
- Plague Knight: Plague of Shadows
- Dummy: Mad Dummy
- Toriel: Asgore
- Papyrus: Sans
- Jimmy (Double Dragon): Billy
...Drat, running out of room.
For those confused, the Smash fandom tends to call derivatives as "semi-clones"; both names essentially have the same meaning, something you can tell was cloned but that also still clearly went through plenty of changes on its own.
As for me, I don't consider Mimikyu a Pikachu clone at all; it was intended as a twist on the Pikachu clone pattern to begin with. It's a spinoff, but that's kinda why I groan whenever people put it up as their "favorite Pikachu clone"... because when I see it, I hardly see a clone any more, it's its own thing. (The main reason I dislike it is simply because it's always put in the ballpark of those actual derivatives, giving them no chance to shine at all by overshadowing them)
I agree with you, but I may be biased because Mimikyu is my favorite Pokémon. I don't consider it a Pikachu clone since it's not electric type or even a rodent, it's some sort of ghostly monster that is so horrifying to look at that anyone who sees it dies of terror
Does mimikyu have other costumes in the anime or something, cuz i dislike how it makes it canon that pikachu is the pokemon worlds most favorite pokemon which is why it copies pika. Also wonder how it would work if the mystery dungeon game came out, like what all mimikyus would be fans of a world famous pikachu?? Anyways i wish it had more costumes cuz i hate it only copying pikachu
I like to think that biologically speaking, Mimikyu isn't really a Pikachu clone. See the clones seem to be based on divergent evolution which is when an animal evolves into multiple different animals, like how dogs and foxes both originate from wolves, or how different kinds of rodents are speculated to be related. Pikachu and it's clones all likely look the same because they share a common ancestor. Mimikyu meanwhile seems to be based on Mimicry which is when an animal intentionally looks like a different animal to be treated differently. For example the Viceroy butterfly looks like the poisons monarch butterfly so that predators avoid eating it, or the mimic octopus which act's like other dangerous animals like the lionfish in order to avoid being attacked. Mimikyu isn't a Pikachu clone because it's based on a completely different evolutionary phenomenon.
@@zygoat2369 oh. So just like dyspo and beerus. Both look the same but are different creatures
Not to mention togedemaru has already claimed the Pikachu clone slot for that generation.
I think KOF99 - KOF2001 sums up "clones" perfectly well, where you have literal clones of the series protagonist Kyo Kusanagi (Kyo1 and Kyo2, who were excuses to keep his old fighting style on the roster), derivatives like K' (Not really a clone, but has some elements of Kyo in him) and I... guess ascended with K9999? (While story-wise another Kyo clone, furthest thing from it. In fact, he's a literal Tetsuo-from-Akira clone, right down to the voice actor and crazy arm thing.)
Probably not the best example, but yeah. This awesome video had me thinking.
"Clones in video games"
Me instantly thinking about Pizza Tower:
I’m pretty we can all agree that Luigi is the most famous palette swap in all of video game history.
Tails has gameplay differences in Sonic 2.
He has a shorter collision box meaning he won't get crushed in some places where Sonic will.
Tails also does not have a Super in Sonic 2.
Tails did turn super in sonic heroes
@@mohabalserafe3795 He said he doesn't turn super in Sonic 2, not Heroes. Keep up.
@@mohabalserafe3795 Can you even call that a Super form, though? It's just a glowing yellow shield
@@RandomTomatoMusic will technically yeah it is
Pichu being a Pikachu clone is a common misconception. (Idk how tbh) Pikachu’s real clone in gen 2 is Marill
Tatsumaki (竜巻) is Japanese for "Tornado".
Shoryuken (昇龍拳) means "Rising Dragon Fist".
Oh! Is that why a lot of anime characters are named Tatsumaki?
@@ali773n what are you talking about ?
@@ali773n Bro just shit words out of his mouth and called it facts
@@Watermelon_Man there’s a bunch of characters named Tatsumaki🤨 whats the problem? and I never called anything facts.
Hell, my favorite ramen shop is tatsumaki ramen
Kiro! So glad I found your channel! The descriptions of your topic are always well thought out and interesting.
"it can definitely suck when a clone takes up a spot in the roster of your favorite game instead of someone cool and new" See, this right here is the problem with the way people treat clone characters. There's no set number of characters in a roster when the game is being developed. If there's more or less characters then the character select screen will be changed accordingly. There's no "taking up a spot" or being in the game "instead of" another character, the truth is, if that clone character wasn't in the game, there would just be one less character. Clones are easier to develop and that's their whole point. The development team might not have the time or resources to make more fully fledged characters, so adding clones is just a bonus. Copy paste an existing character, make a few changes, and now there's an extra character. If that's all the devs had time to do before the game released, how are they supposed to make an entirely unique character instead in that same time? It's either throw in a clone or ship the game with one less character, and personally I'll take that extra bonus character
Yea I agree. I have zero problems with the ryu derivatives or the mashimas in the tekken series. I think its genius of the developers to shorten the length of time creating a character by using the core ideas of another.
It's time and resources that could have gone towards a unique character
@@door_productions4896Not really. Clone characters take 1/4 - 1/2 of development time that a unique character does.
Game developers only have a finite amount of time to develop and put out a game; adding clones to fighting games usually happens near the tail end of the game which is why it'd be much easier to add 1-4 clones than spend all that time on a completely new character, especially so close near the finish line.
@@door_productions4896Since they come at the very end of a game's development schedule, that basically means the game developers had enough time to pad out the roster, but not enough time to create a completely new character from scratch.
That's why it's dumb to use the argument "that's time that could have been better spent elsewhere" when it really doesn't take away from their original roster plans; they're just extra content.
@@door_productions4896 And doesn't that also translate to real life? Alot of fighters in boxing and mma have similar styles.
I think that, Clones are important to video games. They are mostly useful as the player 2 option, and even when not allows the players more freedom between characters to choose. If it is a Sonic Adventure 2 kind of situation, it allows more personalities to be explored and perhaps some slight gameplay changes, those being Sonic, Eggman and Knuckles being the most advanced gameplay styles due to having the most stages. But where clones fail the most is in Fighting Games when they take up a new slot. The 3 Link's for example, yeah I would not see either of the small Links as a clone of Adult Link, more of a spinoff. Tho, I would count Toon Link as a clone, aka Echo, of Young Link. In Fighting Games, clones should be held to a Minimum, and when added in still give enough changes. Like turning strong solohits into weaker multihits that, if done right do more damage but when wrong less. Make the gameplay Unique enough that you can have a preverence
I kind of like how Ganondorf has sort of went from a Falcon clone to a hard hitting brute. Like his neutral B is a powerful backhand punch and his side B is him pretty much picking an opponent by the neck and seemingly crushing their throat pipe. That sort of suits Ganondorf in my eyes. He's like a brooding dictator who will neutralise a threat personally if anyone dare oppose him. A sort of Darth Vader type. You don't cross him. Very intimidating. He'll only his weapon against certain opponents either to face off one-to-one or to finish them off.
I might be overthinking this...
Mimikyu seems more like a subversion than a true clone. It references Pikachu with it's design, but the facade of looking like Pikachu is as skin deep as it gets, with what's underneath being entirely different. Both literally in the sense that the Pokemon is literally wearing a costume, and figuratively in the sense that it plays so completely differently to Pikachu that considering them even slightly the same thing is ridiculous.
I also wouldn't call Zero in the MMX series a clone at all really. He has a unique design and playstyle entirely to both the original Rock/Mega Man, and X, and his personality is unique as well. If we're going to start calling him a clone, we might as well just start calling every character a clone.
I always thought it was really weird how Ganondorf was a clone of Captain Falcon in Smash Bros since as characters really aren’t similar at all
1:06
The NES could only display 3 colors per pallet, 4 pallets per screen. Because of the pallets that the world is using at that point, the the brown Goomba wouldn’t work with the color pallets being used so he would switch with the pallet of the level.
Underground uses blues, so blue Goomba. Overworld has brown so Goomba is brown. Castle has grays so Goomba is gray.
Billy and Jimmy from Double Dragon. Bill and Lance from Contra. So many palette swaps that became distinct characters.
This was a great video, and I love the way you categorize everything and how comprehensive and concise it feels.
However, correction on clones “taking up a spot of someone new”: that’s pretty much never true. Clone characters take way fewer resources to develop than brand new characters. This is because they’re using the design and programming work of an already completed character as a base and changing parameters on their attributes and moves, which is substantially easier, faster, and cheaper than making a brand new character. So the work that went into making Ken or Chrom, for example, was not work that could have instead gone into making a character like Waluigi unless Waluigi himself would ALSO be an echo.
Aside from that one thing, great video as usual.
EDIT: Guys, I’m not complaining about Echo Fighters, my secondary is Dark Pit! It’s like Sakurai said, “imagine clones are like a free dessert on top of your meal” (paraphrasing here). I don’t even care about Waluigi, I just know he’s a popular pick.
Smash fans are a special bunch.
Clones are cool.
They're lame exactly because of that, being proof usually that a game ran out of time and put the rest of the content by recycling the previous one
Smash fan moment
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 No, that's not how you play the game. Sakurai *Literally* said, clones are like a dessert. You dont have to have them, but they just add to the game experience. Clones are added because they can be put in the game *very* easily. You're acting like they're replacing new characters like Sora, or Banjo, but they're not even taking a slot, they're making a new slot for themselves.
@@E_Fig05 THANK YOU! This is exactly what I was saying.
Cool video I recently found your channel and l really like these video game talks keep up the good work
Very nice overview! I like how you mentioned several characters that started as clones and then later became their own thing. There's also a case where kinda the opposite happened. In the Crash Bandicoot games, Coco Bandicoot had her playable debut in the third game, but she was only available for special vehicle segments. The first game where you could play as her properly however, I'd argue she was a semiclone/derivative of Crash, as her moveset was fairly different. She generally felt inferior to Crash, but she had her own levels which helped me appreciate their differences more.
Then when the original three games were remade, as well as in the lrecent Crash 4, she is pretty much a reskin of Crash as she plays the exact same and can be played in pretty much every level. From what I remember though, this was generally reacted to positively, as it was probably a better fit for that kind of game to give us characters with identical gameplay.
Crash 4 did add other playable characters that played very differently, but those again had levels specifically designed around them. Whilst Crash and Coco were the interchangable default protagonist for every standard level.
Fun fact: sonic sprite in sonic 3 was the base of knuckles’ sprite
Playing Master Duel and alt-tabbing to seeing you talk about Master Duel was surreal. Fantastic video as well!
I'd argue Miss Pac-Man was probably the first clone character. I don't think you can call the pong paddle a character
I wanna make a game where it's about one man fighting different versions of himself from the multiverse, and they're all gameplay clones of eachother.
I was surprised how such a small video could easily define clones in gaming, but you did it.
Katana ZERO has a chapter where you could play as a different character, who replaces the ability to throw items with an instant travel slash. It's a small change in gameplay, but really sells the sheer power of the character.
he is also the hottest man in the game.
One of my favorite clones in video games is Bass Forte Wily to Rock 'Mega Man' Light. Unlike X and Zero in the X saga, Bass is more of a frenemy rival to Rock in the Classic saga; sometimes an enemy that wishes to destroy him to assert himself as the strongest, but often working alongside him for the same goal. He also respects humans like Rock does, as they are responsible for Robot Masters existing, and aren't revivable like they are.
Though he has an almost-comical superiority complex, Bass unites with Rock over both their allegiance with humans and their conflict with the villains(mainly Dr. Wily, as well as secondary ones like King). He's less moral-driven than Rock is, but he isn't heartless either.
I've heard similar things with Dark Pit in Kid Icarus Uprising, though I'm more familiar with Mega Man over Kid Icarus, so I'm going with familiarity.
Great video! I've always been a sucker for clones/derivatives for some reason, from Shadow to Princess Daisy to Falco in Melee I always seem to choose them over the original.
3:56 damn man didn't have to go THAT hard on my boy Dan
Technically Pichu isn't a Pikachu clone because it's a pre-evolution of Pikachu
Everything starting with Gen 3 was a definite Pikachu clone
People should see this quality videos if they’re haven’t found out yet this channel
I don't know if the goomba is a great example of clones since I'm like 99% sure that blue goomba isn't supposed to be a new enemy, just the regular gooma in darker lighting
I wonder what the Kiro Talks clone looks like
Here are some more clones:
1. That red Sonic as well as the yellow Sonic from the unused SEGA Sonic Bros. Game
2. Mighty in knuckles chaotic being a slightly redesigned version of Sonic from the prototypes
3. Golden Freddy
4. All of the phantom animatronics
5. Dark pit
6. All different colors of the original Toad
7. Metal Sonic isn't a copy as in a pallet swap, but he's a robot clone made by Eggman
8. Bowser Jr. Is identical to Baby Bowser
9. Kamek looks exactly like every other Majikoopa
10. Repeaters are slightly altered peashooters
12. Copy robot is identical to Mega Man in the original Mega man
13. "Evil Sonic" also known as Surge is a slightly altered Sonic
14. Minecraft Zombies are Steve with some changes
15. Mooshrooms are pallet swaps of cows but with slight changes
And Blood Falcon is the literal evil clone of Captain Falcon in the F-Zero series
I do not trust clones. It is a personal rule of mine.
Misnomer: Clone characters do not take up a 'slot' on the roster because their development time is drastically decreased due to having base materials and a finished model to work of off. Smart devs will create them in parallel to cull even more busywork out of the process.
Please stop saying clones take up slots, friends. They don't.
They work that went into making a clone could've had a LITTLE bit more put in to make that 1 for 1 a semiclone at best. So yes, they do take up a slot in a sense. Maybe not in the way you're thinking, but the likes of the Smash clones could've been removed to make way for maybe half that space to be filled with characters of more substance.
@@espurrseyes42 The real problem is how bloated the cast is. Like several content creators have stated, the next Smash game would benefit greatly from the cast being cut down and having each character own their own playstyle instead of so many moves being shared between nearly the entire cast. Somehow it's diverse, but not.
@@ArclinusCastoral
Quality over Quantity is what you mean. The Smash Ult roster is huge and full of tons of heavily gimmicky characters with lots of effort put into them, but there's also a hefty amount of clones one can point to to say the roster is being padded by asset flips. As opposed to the Brawl roster of 40ish unique characters save for the like 3 or 4 semiclones.
Luigi's "L" looking funky in that thumbnail
Mario Bros was that tight on space that it not only didn't have space for a change of space for the sprite, they don't have space for another pallete of collor so they reciucle the Koopa(turles) pallete, they continued doint it at least on Super Mario Bros and Lost levels(original release in Japan).
My favourite video game clones are Mileena and Dark Pit!
Never have I thought it'd watch a fighting game video that becomes about Yu-Gi-Oh halfway through
The musou series live and die by its original characters, a game like hyrule warriors is always fresh with different characters while fire emblem warriors had you pay for DLC that were clones of the same characters in the base game.
Dude just hit all my interests with these explanations
Imagine making a video about clones in video games and not bringing up Yo-Kai Watch and all its Jibanyan variants that play uniquely including the one you can customize yourself with Originyan.
A video talking about clones in video games and no mention of Big Boss? No Solid or Liquid, Solidus Snake? Literally the best example of a clone and it gets over looked. Metal Gear franchise one of the most underrated game ever.
when you know that someone's favorite character is a clone character
I would argue that pichu wasn't the first pika clone, but marill was
Injustice 2 is great for this. Cheetah has a vixen clone. Different voicelines, different intro interactions, different super move cutscene, exact same moveset
The 4 Evil Ryus are crazy 😂
bro, for real include tails as sonic clone meanwhile metal, would be like: I knew it i was the real sonic !
Kingdom hearts, where there is only two characters and the rest is either Sora or Xehanorth
Charizard and Typhlosion have the exact same stat spreads
there was always 2 types of kids. the ones who liked the original and the ones who liked the clone
Yugioh also had the Evil Heroes fusions for E-Hero fusions
Sometimes I rather have a clone character that adds a twist and may even end up being funner than the base character than a new one that may not click with me, as long as there aren't too many clones.
I call this "pulling a Dark Link" most times if it's a dark or shadowy version of a character
Me looking at the "echo drivers" in mk8 deluxe
Ya know, luigi should have eletric power
How you this consistent keep it real
Everyone needs a player 2
Luigi fits all of these categories
A good example of this is Li'l Judd from Splatoon, that little kitten is a literal clone, knows it, and absolutely *_Hates_* it. It's to the point where the series has been kinda dropping hints that Li'l is gonna do something plot significant.
I mean the series has literally said that Li'l is waiting to stab the original Judd in the back.
Honestly I don't have problems with the clones/derivatives themselves, I only dislike them when or they don't make sense (Ganondorf-Capitan Falcon) or when they are too many of the same (4 Marths or the 3 Links).
Other than everything is fine as long as you cans we why they are similar and they don't go beyond 2 clones.
Subscribed.
random fact: Pac-Man has a clone named “Taxman” and it’s on the Apple II
all 8 fire emblem characters in smash basically
Just 4 of them are clones. Ike, Robin, Corn, and Byleth are unique.
Gombas palet swap is not as diferent enemy, but more like a gomba in the darkness
Another use of clones is with game difficulty. Like how in Resident Evil 1 Chris is basically hard mode and Jill is normal.
Wouldn't call Pichu a clone, it literally becomes Pikachu.
Or Mimikyu, if Mimukyu is then Marill is.
Subbing before this dude blows up
Ken and Ryu are actually pretty different, in my opinion. At least today.
I tend to like clones more anyway it’s like the creators thought how can we make the original COOLER
Hey I love Dan Hibiki! He’s MY Loser Ryu, he may be one man’s trash but he’s my treasure and spirit animal!
Well, as unknown of them being everywhere by me was until now, I do believe they they have a. Chance to become something bigger
Im always slightly sad when creators miss the chance to use the protoman theme song
Mario is a Luigi clone.
*Change my mind.*
I think Metal Sonic, fit on the idea o a "spin off", it go a step futher to be the evil clone of Sonic, he match his skill but is far from a 1 to 1 copy, he hover instead of run, and have a few unique tricks like the shield and energy blast, inclusive have his own Super forms that exploit his Robotic nature rather than be a replica of Super Sonic
Mimiku is not a pikachu clone. Togedemaru is, but mimiku is more of a lore connected character. Its a clefairy clone is anything.
While being based on pikachu all the pikaclones still have unique designs
Imma be real, I think Smash is the worst example of clones, as I think the majority of them are lazy or even just entirely aesthetic. The best clone imo is Fukua from Skullgirls. A clone of Fillia, even reusing the same sprites and collisions on her moves, but almost all of them have different properties from Fillia, and she utilises clones herself. Her kit essentially resembles Fillia on a visual level and that's pretty much it, she's entirely her own thing. There's practically no overlap, a Fillia player can't play Fukua and vice versa. Still very much a pallete swapped clone, but a ton of effort was made to have her stand out, she feels intelligently made and a worthwhile addition to the cast the game would be lesser without. Efficient AND meaningful clone!
Gouken = Old Ryu
SF6 Ryu = Other Old Ryu
I’m kinda disappointed that you didn’t talk about Mortal Kombat in this video
I'm surprised you didn't mention clone characters in Mario Kart. That's right there would be the argument against clone characters. There doesn't need to be a metal Mario when there's already a Mario and there doesn't need to be pink gold peach when there's already a peach, not to mention I don't think pink gold peach ever existed before Mario Kart 8 came out. I mean at least metal Mario have been around thanks to the metal cap in Super Mario 64 as well as fighting metal Mario in Super smash Bros single player mode and fighting metal Mario and metal Luigi in melee's adventure mode, but where the hell did pink gold peach come from? They could have put so many other different choices of characters there because the Mario cast is just so broad with so many different characters.
Not to mention five different light characters taking up by baby versions of already existing medium size and heavy characters? Pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
I'd argue that Metal Mario exists to let you play Mario while in a heavier weight class, but it that REALLY something so important that they need a clone of an existing character? And the you've got Gold Mario and Pink Gold Peach...
At least the Babies were established characters (minus Rosalina's and Daisy's), so they don't feel as bad even though they serve a similar purpose of "Lightweight" versions of existing characters.
Mimikyu isn’t a pikachu clone
It's like people see its dressed as Pikachu and goes "Oh its a clone!"
What about Dark Pit!?
Luigi jumps higher then Mario
I guess Isabelle isn’t a clone of Villager. They only share down-smash and dash-attack and and up-air animations. Up-special looks different but functions the same. I’m finally letting go.
So this begs the most important political and existential question of all. A question that may change the fate of the USA as a nation: Is Dee Jay a clone of Guile?
I guess if you're really lenient with your definition of "clone". They're both charge characters with "wind slash" projectiles and a kick-based reversal/damage-ender. But they're visually distinct from each other on top of all the unique stuff Dee Jay has over Guile's barebones kit. I'd sooner say Charlie/Nash is a clone before Dee Jay since the former straight up uses Sonic Boom and Flash Kick or variants of them on top of having actual lore connecting him to Guile.