Let me know if you guys want to see more videos like this. I could pump these out a lot faster. Mini Update: I’ll be at Dream Con next week, so videos on the channel will resume in August. See you guys soon! 💯❤️
could you make a video of an ideal zamasu arc (for you)? maybe taking elements from the manga and anime and making all the wasted ideas have a coherent spot on the story like Vegetto, the unbalanced zamasu fusion form where he has half of his body damaged... it would be amazing
I'm really glad that you showed the Broly image in the manga because I've been debating with my friend on whether or not his full power was in the manga and I know it wasn't it was only regular super Saiyan
If they never fuse it would be dumb of fource they won't forget about their last hope (fusion) And the reason vegeta fused showed his character development especially in the manga
Yeah, Vegito didn't exactly leave any lasting impact in the Goku Black Arc, I do think it was cool to see him and the fight he had with Zamasu was also pretty good, but one thing I've always wondered is why his clothes were the exact same as they were in the Buu Saga. 🤔
Main reason for the outfit being the same… merchandising and nostalgia bait, hell that’s actually the only reason Vegito appeared in the arc because in an interview with Toyotaro during the manga’s publication of this arc, he said Toriyama’s Drafts which were given to him and Toei originally had just Goku and Vegeta working together in SSB to fight Zamasu, and that Toriyama didn’t plan on Goku and Vegeta ever using potara fusion again but Toei decided to add Vegito and due to fan expectations, Toyotaro followed suit and included him in the manga’s version of the arc as well. The interview is at the end of Volume 4 of the manga if you wanna read the full explanation Toyotaro and Toriyama gave in the interview
@@ilytyypa Potara Fusions typically mix the clothing of the people that fuse together, Vegeta wasn't wearing armor in the Buu Saga, so we got what we got, Vegeta however WAS wearing armor in the Goku Black Arc, so Vegito should've had some sort of armor when he showed up in the Goku Black Arc.
Yeah, Merged Zamasu can heal from all damage he through at him and was immortal, in the anime they said they needed a major boost to break down his body, not to kill him, but Vegito did absolutely try to kill him. He went blue right away and beat the shit out of him, only for the blue to wear down the time by 40 minutes. Because in the manga they fused 20 minutes after black and zamasu did and defused when zamasu has 20 minutes left, and I’m just gonna guess it’s the same in the anime.
@@sebastianamarebrown8671 To be fair, I don’t think they said how long vegito was there for, and the 5 minutes is probably from the episode’s timing which isn’t really relevant considering that the tournament of power was 48 minutes and lasted for multiple episodes that equaled many hours. And I don’t remember anyone in the show saying how long vegito stuck around for.
Duh I mean yeah Yamaha doesn't get much screentime, but he's been a character since dragon ball,and he's one of the z fighters. Vegito is supposed to be a special character that doesn't show up much and is only used for special situations.
@charizardunites nah yamcha is just a flat-out better and more lovable charecter (he was just done dirty by akira). I feel the cocky "oh I'm so powerful I'll hold back because I'm so smug, arrogant, and annoying is SOOOOOOO over done.
There's this other TH-camr called Jordan the Dragonlee who makes videos comparing Dragon Ball to its source material, Journey to the West, and how Gogeta and Vegito are parallels to enlightenment, thereby becoming masters of martial arts. With this idea in mind, it would've been interesting for Vegito to the first one to figure out Perfected Super Saiyan Blue, as this shows the merger between Goku and Vegeta is more harmonious and is ever closer to the realms of godhood whilst Zamasu slowly falls from it. Could even take it one step further, have it similar to the anime where Vegito fires off the Final Kamehameha, and teleports in to finish the job with a _Hakai_ before defusing right before he can finish it. Goku can still use his Vegito experience to unlock Perfected SSB against a weakened Zamasu, while this sets the seeds for Vegeta learning how to use destruction energy in the Granolah arc.
@@tonyblgl Would have been thematically interesting as well in this scenario since the Potara, a item of the gods, effectively rejected a mortal from using the technique of the gods, which ties into the Mortals vs Gods theme the Goku Black arc had.
You are absolutely right. Even Toriyama's original draft for this arc was for Blue Goku and Vegeta to take on Merged Zamasu without fusion but the powers that be wanted fan service which lead to Vegito appearing 😓😪😒
@@wbrodie55 What are you talking about? I said the anime and the manga, I saw the full manga version of the Goku black saga and the battle between merged zamasu and vegito blue on TH-cam.
Here's a rewrite that I think makes sense. Firstly, I would make the potara's mortal time limit drain slower when using god forms like Blue (perfected or not). It was explained that permanent fusion only happens when two divine beings do it, so divine ki would likely sustain a mortal fusion for longer, at least IMO. Second, Vegeta should have been the one to attempt a Hakai on Zamasu. It would've served as great foreshadowing towards Ultra Ego. Plus, it makes more sense that Vegeta would have a better handle on Blue since he improved on Goku's god-switch technique earlier. Not to mention Trunks' motivating him to fight in honor of future Bulma. Thirdly, I'd switch things around so that Vegeta's desperation Hakai takes place before he fuses with Goku. Then, during their fight, Zamasu would split apart sooner since he fused before Vegito appeared. After Trunks slices Zamasu and Black, he'd pin the two of them on the ground by his sword, allowing Vegito to finish them off with a proper Final Kamehameha.
The worst problem with Vegito blue in my opinion is that his fit is just straight up wrong, he has the same clothes as his buu saga appearance, but the reason he has those clothes in the buu saga is because they are a mix of Vegeta and Goku’s buu saga clothes, and Vegeta has different clothes and now wears armor in the Goku Black arc so Vegito’s appearance makes 0 sense.
nah lowkey its fine cause the only part coming from vegetas fit in the buu arc are the gloves and boots, same things happening here, for gokus fit they just reversed the colors
In the anime it was equally worse. At first Vegeta & Trunks overpowered Fused Zamasu.. And Goku ALONE did that same thing but f'd him up even worse. Vegito didn't do jackzhit in the fight and even his power consumption draining Final Kamehameha didn't phase Fused Zamasu.. But yet again, Future Trunks stopped him by HIMSELF with his Spirit Bomb Sword :D
@@justinsdenyou also have to justify the full power of Broly transformation then because it's in the same boat as super Saiyan rage makes no sense and it's not in the manga
@@LeutrimFazliu-je6ohBut Vegito Blue didn’t even get knocked out though he was playing pretend than he stabbed fused zamasu through the chest catching him off guard before they then started to fight again after fused zamasu’s speech.
This is the same issue I have with SS4 gogeta in gt. Showed up, beat up omega, got rid of the negative energy surrounding the earth. Then he defuse before killing omega, both goku and vegeta lost SS4, omega spread more negative energy and the earth was about to be destroyed, only for goku to win with a spirit bomb
It woulve been better if syn didnt become omega again, after the big 100x big bang attack of gogeta, omega lost all the other dragons in him and became normal syn again, just for him to eat the dragon balls again and be too op again, if he wasnt able to do that anymore it wouldve made more sense for goku to beat him alone
The thing is even if gogeta wwnt full power he would still fail to kill omega due to gokus energy being too low and we see that when goku gets Hurt by glass shards GLASS SHARDS in ss4 and wonce they defuse and try again goku reverts to his base showing how little energy goku truelly had
@@skndsidjd7540This is not supported by “canon” for gt. Gogeta literally shows he’s omega’s superior in every shape and form and was toying with him the entire fight despite omega going all out. Gogeta even says one more big bang kamehameha and he’ll be done for and omega doesn’t dispute that, only cowers before the fusion was undone. Fusion isn’t just character A plus character B, it significantly multiplies everything about two beings into an ultimate one
Vegito: Final Kamehameha, Savage Strike *that's a wrap, you're done* Gogeta: Stardust Fall, Super Kamehameha, God Punisher, Stardust Breaker, Punisher Shield, Meteor Explosion, Ultra Kamehameha *yess king, you still got time*
So goku black getting random zenkais during is beatings didnt botherd you? He stabing is hand and pulling a weapon, is clones all that no logical stuff that was so random didnt botherd you? Plus trunks terribel new form that come from nowhere? The awfull ending? Trunks somehow knowing spirit bomb?
Honestly, I wished the fight between Vegito and Zamasu was much longer, and that it’d end with Vegito disintegrating him with a Final Kamehameha, but the writers were genuinely braindead. The only good arc in the entire show and they fucking ruined it.
The thing with the manga is that Vegito wasn’t planned, Toyotaro was the one that suggested it. As you said, Goku in his perfected blue was equivalent to Zamasu and almost outright beating him. Perfected blue is not a power up, it’s been constantly been said to be 100% blue without the drainage of power like we see in the champa tournament and beginning of the black arc. Fusions in general their power exceed the individual’s max powers, meaning Vegito and later on Gogeta in their base forms are already stronger than Goku and Vegeta’s blue forms, given Vegito was using blue recklessly and not perfected it caused the energy to literally deplete and be abused causing the the fusion to burn out, we see this contrast in their power to how base Vegito easily burned through half of zamasu, yet full power Goku blue only scratched him. So overall the problem is that Vegito was too powerful for his opponent cause as you can see in the manga, it’s basically overkill, he could’ve easily used super Vegito and be fine dominating. So yea I agree that he should’ve been handled better but it’s just the issue of him being an afterthought and not originally being planned to be in the arc
Another thing that I have an issue with is that if Goku had mastered SSB, why’d he wait so long to actually use it, Vegeta’s statement basically confirms that Goku mastered SSB before they even fused so it would’ve made more sense if Goku fought in his mastered/perfected Blue form and then once the strain started to take effect, then resort to Potara as the last ditch effort and have Vegito Blue fight up until both his and Zamasu’s fusions wore off (I guess the only logical explanation for Goku using Perfected Blue afterwards is because of Vegito eating the last senzu, that restored both Goku and Vegeta’s energy hence why Vegeta felt Goku’s full power while fused) but I just wish Vegito would’ve had more purpose since he’s my favorite fusion (I like both him and Gogeta, but Vegito’s arrogance is why he’s my favorite lol)
I will admit if goku could have done it, Vegito should have been able to do it, in whiz’s eyes he’s the perfect fighter and should have done that in the manga.
vegeta realizes that goku is stronger than him when he fuses, it doesn't mean he has the perfect blue, because the perfect blue is just the blue without energy consumption, so when they fused at the beginning, vegeta has understood the true power of goku, and that's why he believes that he is the only one capable of beating zamasu, that's why trunks heals goku and not vegeta
@@kikitori2413 I can just hear Vegeta screaming in anger that he’s taking the L so many times. Getting his ass whooped, Goku being stronger than him, and his own son healing his rival instead of him.
This arc is just the epitome of bad writing in general. Vegito making an appearance makes sense considering the “Gods Vs. Mortals” theme. They could have given us a dope Ki Sword vs Ki Sword battle with Vegito proving why Mortals can stand up to Gods in the end and destabilizing Zamasu’s fusion but they didn’t do that either. This arc is just as poorly executed as any GT arc
I agree with you Justin! They could have shown vegito overwhelming zamasu to the point where he completely bursts him into pieces and then we have army of fused zamasus, then they can diffuse only for zeno to intervene.
That's not a bad idea! It would have demonstrated Vegito's superiority in a more valid way. All in all though, I think it would have better for Vegito to have appeared in a different arc altogether unless the narrative was changed.
@@justinsden Yeah but I think Goku black arc was suitable for him to make a debut in DBS coz t.o.p is not suitable if they had plans to show mui and ssbe then again vegito would be useless, Moro arc introduced 'forced spirit fission', Granolah arc was about tui and ue so ig he was introduced in the right arc but poorly executed
I remember reading this a few months ago about this but yes, Vegito being in the Goku Black saga was purely fan service. In the original draft, Vegito was never meant to appear, as Toriyama knew that Goku and Vegeta super saiyan blue forms were enough to defeat Fused Zamasu, and figured that because they were so powerful to not even need to fuse. But Toriyama decided to add Vegito as it was suggested by Toei, whom taught that the fans would want to see Vegito battling against fused Zamasu
Vegito's defusion in Super offered a better reason why he defused in Z. It was not the fact that back in Z Goku & Vegeta were inside Buu's body, but because of the time limit. The Elder Kai said that the potara fusion was permanent but it is only permanent for Kais. Any mortals who use the potaras only stay fused for 1 hour. Elder Kai thought it was permanent because he onmy seen Kais perform that fusion
Could have easily been solved by not retconning with a time limit, but when Zeno learns Goku doesnt "exist" anymore, he could tell the Grand Priest to fix it, and just does some angel stuff and boom.
There’s no retcon in super, we’ve only got an explanation this time. Vegito never had an actual reason as to why he defused inside of buu, and goku immediately shot down the magic inside of buu as an explanation, as gotenks never defused until the time limit.
Good video. Im one of the biggest vegito fans out, but it's just so sad that he didn't get a better moment in dragon ball super, maybe in the TOP or something but its alright i just hope he gets his moment sometime else
Vegito was necessary for the anime. Vegito’s presence and taunts prompted Merged Zamasu to waste away his own immortal body for power to take on the fusion. This would weaken and eat away at Zamasu, enough that the fighters had a better chance once the fusion ended. Vegito may not have a direct Win/Finish in combat, but his utilization and intelligence to better deal with some of the franchises most hax opponents make him vastly more interesting than he is often credited. He is more than just a cool Spirit Sword Fusion.
This was what I was saying about the Goku Black Arc in the manga. I do like the manga better at least the anime let Vegito Blue use all of his move sets from the Spirit Sword, to Instant Transmisson, and having a Final Kamehameha that actually was used and not cut off due to the fusion time limit
Imagine if instead, Trunks ALMOST defeat Zamasu but runs out of juice before he could finish him, getting Goku and Vegeta to put on the potara ear rings for the sole purpose of saving Trunks instead. Vegito beating Zamasu but unable to fully take him down for good would be a good motivation for Trunks to step in to assist Vegito, having both of them conjure their huge ki swords simultaniously striking down Zamasu. Wouldn't it be awesome?
They could've easily fixed a lot of Vegito's issues in this arc by repeating what they did with Buu. Maybe have Vegito use the Hakai on Zamas instead of Goku (which would honestly make more sense and set up Vegeta dabbling in destruction later) and manage to erase almost all the Goku Black half before splitting, bringing him back to a level Goku or Vegeta could actually stand against. It'd allow Vegito to contribute to the plot without derailing it too much.
I'm sure there would've been a better way to implement Vegetto's appearance, but all things considered - as far as the manga is concerned since that's the medium your video covers - I think Toyotaro did fairly well To put ourselves in his position, he's essentially said that even though Vegetto was not in Toriyama's story outline, he essentially felt forced to include it anyway because fans who saw the anime would be disappointed if he didn't. He's also nothing if not totally reverent towards Toriyama and rarely ever diverged too much from his story outlines So in short, he feels like his hands are tied to follow the plot beats: use of the Mafuba fails on Zamasu > Zamasu and Goku Black fuse > (Goku and Vegeta fuse) > Zamasu's fusion expires, but he only becomes an even bigger threat > Zeno button When in Toriyama's mind, Fused Zamasu is roughly around the level of Goku and Vegeta together, individually. Toei wanted Vegetto, and so they had little choice but to scale up Zamasu. I honestly think Toyotaro did a decent job of keeping Zamasu closer to his intended strength by making Vegetto no diff if not for his immortality, and I think the explanation of the fusion ending prematurely *because* Vegetto was trying to put as much power as possible in order to overcome that immortality into his Final Kamehameha is satisfying enough But that does still leave the issue of Goku performing as well as he did, which gives the impression that if anything, Toyotaro scaled Zamasu *down* from Toriyama's intent, which creates more than a little inconsistency in how fusion generally works since Goku Black is supposed to be at least a bit above Goku/Vegeta, so logically, even if Zamasu isn't all that strong, a fusion together with him should make the fused Zamasu much more than either could handle alone
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Another problem with vegito in this arc is that we saw with gogeta that base gogeta was strongger than blue goku and vegeta. So if goku and vegeta could minimally hold their ground against zamasu, vegito wouldn't even need blue.
Sometimes being a vegito fan just feels like a struggle when not only having to defend the goat against the gogeta supremecist., but the series itself likes to give us the middle finger.
The outside universe reason is that They added vegito last minute for what I think was for fan service and to sell merchandise and toys, vegito was never gonna win trunks was planned to win (even though he really didn’t win which was bs) and it’s the Same thing with gogeta in gt it was for fan service the arc was already written to have Goku beat omega and disappear with the dragon, so they needed to come up with a way to stop the fusion from winning easily
I genuinely think that the purpose of potara not working was to deviate away from the reliance of fusion anyway. Think about it. The potency of god ki is so great that it caused the earrings to be null in void. That also speaks to Beerus’ incredible strength which is predicated on god ki. Even if Vegetto was stronger than Beerus temporarily it wouldn’t have mattered because of the fusion time. Which is why relying on your own power is the more efficient, purposeful way to go as we see Jiren in the next arc not only trump the idea of fusion, but even Goku himself. Heck even in the same arc we see that displayed with Goku not only putting up a better fight against FZ with his own power, but being able to master the form without any interference or time limit
Not to mention that in the anime, BEFORE the fusion, Goku also held back against Zamusu just with the Kaioken. It makes the fusion, just like the manga's, feel like it carries little wait and really isn't a power boost. A shame really.
The thing that really nags me is that Vegito's original debut is supposed to symbolise the end of both Vegeta and Goku's rivalry and the beginning of their friendship. Which is why the scene of Vegeta putting on the earring felt so,powerful to me, it wws Vegeta swallowing his pride. But Super throws thismout the window, even before this arc due to how Goku and Vegeta were acting during the frieza arc so Vegito's appearance is quite literally empty, he fills no role in a narrative sense at all.
Toyotaro stated that Vegito Blue wasn't even in the drafts by Toriyama and because the anime did it, he felt like he had to as well in his version of DBS manga. So yeah it was just an afterthought.
One point that's even worse about this execution of Vegito's re-introduction in the anime is most certainly his power. It may not be as noticeable at first, but his fight with Zamasu was entirely equal. They both landed hits on eachother and traded blows, with Vegito even looking noticeably distressed during one scene (The one where Zamasu launches a ki-ai blast at Vegito, which makes the screen lose colour for a moment.) So not only were they pretty much on-par, but the moment Zamasu powered up, Vegito wasn't even capable of remotely damaging him. A Final Kamehameha aiming to defeat Zamasu didn't even cause any scratches or marks. He was completely unscathed. Not only that, but every other attack Vegito used didn't even damage Zamasu or worry him. Even the first part of the omega finishing blow left him cold. In the manga he's stronger atleast, but in both variations of the story, Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken / Perfect Blue Goku did MORE harm to Zamasu than Vegito Blue. Look how dirty they've done my potara king, man..
In the manga, it’s not even a close fight, perfected blue goku is only SLIGHTLY stronger than him, but vegito had no trouble at all, he literally destroyed zamasu’s body in base.
@@basimali619 Vegito from the start said he'll go all out against Zamasu and won't even leave him any time to regenerate, yet Zamasu still feels confident and doesn't take much damage throughout the battle aside from the ki blast (which he got caught off guard by, so his defenses are low) and the spirit sword which he immediately recovered from. Meanwhile Goku was able to push Zamasu into an even more desperate position to the point where he wasn't able to regenerate cleanly and didn't even take a chance to regenerate his clothing, unlike with Vegito where he literally recovered his outfit between hits. The argument is wonky, but there's multiple points to support SSBP Goku > Vegito Blue and vice versa. Such shouldn't be the case imo, it's just dumb super scaling.
Keep in mind that according to Toriyama Vegito is Goku's power x Vegeta's power, so somehow Goku alone was able to get close to the power of him not plus Vegeta but multiplied by Vegeta on his own just by mastering blue, how this makes any sense is beyond me.
If anything my only true problem with vegito in the black arc is that he still has his buu saga fit even though vegeta has his saiyan armor on in this arc
Vegito is so cool but its such a shame that they don't give him any W's. Why? I'd be much happier if the Goku Black arc ended with Vegito finishing the job than giving Trunks some random ass pull
The thing is, in the script for the black arc that toriyama wrote, vegito wasnt a part of it, vegito were toei and toyotarou's idea, it was basically to hype the arc up, and since vegito was never in the script he was never meant to beat zamasu, this really gave vegito a bad reputation
What’s crazy is that Vegito has an HOUR usually and Gogeta had 30 minutes. Vegito went straight to blue and didn’t last more then 5 minutes Gogeta got a whole ass movie masterclass probably cuz he was pacing himself from base to SSJ to blue and didn’t defuse till after Frieza left. And that’s still crazy. Bro Vegito even gets down dirty in heroes. Two vegitos can’t take down a single broly yet Gogeta is treated like the final damn boss 😭. Vegito can’t catch a break or a win.
Well two things, Vegito Blue was just a showcase of how powerful a fusion can be compared to goku and vegeta using an unstable and unmastered form against a god with perfect fighting technique. Another showing of Fusion just being capable of fixing everything, but it was more used in this scene as a retcon sort of situation or even just to show how INSANE blue drains the fusion, even if vegito was toying with zamas. Second, it also goes to show how INSANELY powerful multipliers and transformations are really in dragon ball, as they have had the same scaling since mid-late dragon ball with characters just getting far stronger, to the point where they can basically ONE TAP their previous self from the last arc. Goku in the RoF arc with blue and Goku in the U6 arc with blue would be hilariously one sided, and im talking abt the manga not anime, but even still its worse because goku learned kaioken + blue in the anime making it EVEN WORSE for anime RoF goku. Goku just mastering the concept of blue and honing its ki and not letting the aura out all the time gave him the power boost strong enough to rival merged zamas. Thats crazy because the same thing can be said for Ssj goku using grade 1 without control or adaption with the form and goku using grade 1 while mastered. Yes obviously goku trained but if goku had mastered ssj on namek he would one tap frieza, would be on par with the androids, and could put up a fight with post ginger town imp cell for a little. It shouldnt be a surprise to ANYBODY with how crazy DB's scaling of power has been. literally majority of T.O.P characters, and yes including fucking ribrianne, is high universal to low multi. And thats insane given characters of higher tier are outerversal (goku, vegeta, jiren, freiza, whis, beerus, granolah, gas, gohan, ect.)
For an hour fusion timer it really feels like they swapped gogeta and vegitos timers gogetas timer is 30 minutes but he had a longer drawn out fight vegito having a less drawn out fight with zamasu
I hated how they introduced him then thinking he'd be the one to finish off Fused Zamasu just for it to be a small fight where they went toe to toe "Even though Goku and Vegeta were superior" and have them defuse when the shit was getting intense and that bothered me because I'm a huge Vegito fan
THIS is why I said gogeta vs vegito isn’t a fight that can be scaled and based Because people don’t listen, the FUSIONS TIME LIMIT CAN DEPLETE FASTER. In the manga vegito didn’t even last ten minutes yet gogeta vs broly only lasted five. So no one really knows who stronger. Yes gogeta has the power cap at the dance being equal in power, but that can imply the fusion sustaining the entire time limit unless the access a new form unlike vegito barely sustaining their form. Ontop of, if you break the earrings(anime canon btw) the fusion ceases. And I’m pretty damn sure it’s easy to do that
Here’s why gogeta blue doesn’t work as well 1. They could’ve just used the Potora from elder Kai because it has a longer time limit 2. Goku could’ve just asked beerus to help them defeat Broly even if he was babysitting there’s no way he would let earth get destroyed because of the food 3. Goku could’ve just let Broly beat up him and eventually he would’ve unlocked ultra instinct 😂 4. Whis would just rewind time if the earth got destroyed by Broly 5. Goku has the Zeno button 💀
I'm gonna have to refute some of these points cuz... what are these points fam... 1. Why go to the lengths of Potara and waste time (potentially making the Earth go bye bye.) just for ultimately the same results as Gogeta Blue or failure due to defusing. But this isn't a bad point per se. 2. Beerus most likely would've killed/erased Broly knowing he most likely wouldn't be tamed and Goku was still on the bandwagon of redeeming Broly, which is why he wouldn't wanna go to those lengths. 3. ....Really? 4. This is a good point. I will not try and refute it. 5. Same as Beerus. Zeno wouldn't try and befriend Broly knowing he wouldn't understand the Omni-King and probably erase him, something even Whis wouldn't be able to fix with a Temporal Do-Over. Also why would Goku still have the Zeno Button?
First one makes no sense tho they had more than enough time to go for the potara if they got enough time to fail the dance twice i feel waiting like max 5 minutes of teleporting and asking for them compared to over an hour is better The other arguments yeah beerus woudnt spare broly zeno is a big NO and whis reversing time is just gonna delay it being destroyed again/ cause beerus to kill broly
Perfected Super Saiya-Jin Blue Son Goku (超サイヤ人ブルー孫悟空の完成形) just built different on the Manga. Damn, it's sucks that Vegetto (or Vegito) didn't leave a significant impact on this arc and have been overshadowed by Mastered Super Saiya-Jin Blue Son Goku.
0:35 okay i love Shin hes my faviorout character but i have to say Hes an unrelibel Source tbh Plus im sure Shin can.t sense Ki Se hes just observing what he saw Im sure Shin saw beerus at most fight in Bog Wear beeeus was Holding back
I think it kinda unfair how mortal fusion get to appear in big screen yet a divine fusion that matched the G.O.D power only appear in manga and the anime show
Hot take, I think that the way the Potara are handled in Super is the way the Metamoran Fusion Dance should be. Vegito has had a habit of either being matched against fighters that literally can't be beaten or having dumb writing handicap him. By all accounts it makes no sense that the Fusion Dance, a technique that anyone could learn, creates an ultimately more well rounded fusion than these incredibly rare earings only attainable by Kais. Imo the fact that Potata themselves are much harder to get should make Vegito just stronger, and instead the Fusion Dance should be the one that has a power cap before splitting the fusion like what happened in GT. I honestly don't care too much about DBS but am I crazy for thinking this?
Vegito was just so damn unecessary in this arc... it really is a shame. If you removed him from the story, things would barely change Zamasu wasn't even that powerful of an opponent to warrant Goku and Vegeta fusing to beat him, much less to warrant Vegito's use of SSB to fight him. We saw how in the anime, the Father-Son Galick Gun, Goku's full power and SSB Kaioken, and SS Rage Trunks with the Final Hope Slash could overpower and even injure Zamasu. Even Toriyama himself admitted that he thought two SSBs were more than enough to handle Zamasu. He only wrote in Vegito because Toyotaro told him it would please the fans Not only that, retconning Potara fusion's duration was a horrible mistake
Bruh they dropped the ball so hard with Vegito in Super it hurts to this very day. He returns after not being seen since Buuhan fight and kicks ass for a brief moment, but surprise surprise potara gets retconned and vegito defuses in the most critical moment... And all because Trunks just NEEDED to have this win. Funny, when Vegeta needed to have the kill in Resurrection of F they were like nah Goku lol but when It would make sense for Vegito to end Zamasu they suddenly started to care about storytelling. It would unironically be better if Vegito didn't appear at all. At least that way, he wouldn't get shafted and devalued as he did. At the VERY LEAST they could've updated Vegito's design since in this arc, Vegeta was wearing his upper body armor which logically speaking should've had an impact on the way Vegito should look but no, they literally just copy pasted his design from the Buu arc.
To be fair isn’t this a similar issue to Gojita SS4? Overpowered to the point Omega Shenron did not even phase him at all but given a time limit which made everything after kind of underwhelming.
I am not a Vegito I am a Gogeta fan but whenever I remember Vegito vs Merged Zamasu it angers me that how they trashed him just to make a shitty villain like Zamasu to look like a threat. Super Vegito should've overpowered Merged Zamasu like within 5 minutes without having much trouble.
Ngl I think Toriyama may be behind this one. I’m pretty sure Akira Toriyama gives only key story beats and a rough draft for every arc for everyone to loosely follow so I think Toriyama just wrote down stuff like Vegito shows up to fight Zamasu, after a while defuses, someone comes in and defeats Zamasu, Zamasu somehow comes back, Zeno destroys everything. The moments leading up to Zeno destroying the universe seems to be left up to Toyotaro and Toei to finish thats why they’re different. It just seems odd that both manga and anime would drop the ball so hard on the ending in the same way so I feel Akira’s notes had to have smt to do with it, but idk maybe its something else
I dont have a problem with Vegito defusing due to an unstable power level. My problem comes in with Kefla where she uses an absurd amount of power against goku yet she never defused and when she did defuse it was because goku hit her with such a powerful kamehameha it shattered the potoras
to writing reasons yeah toriyama and toyotaro had to give a product that resembled the anime. But perfect goku blue is far from close to blue Vegito. The man was stronger than Fusion Zamas in base, just wanted to do overkill cuz he didn't knew that a fusion breaks on high amount of energy consume
Grew up as a Gogeta fan, became a Vegito enjoyer. Vegito and Gogeta got that dawg in em, but Vegito's final kamehameha is just so coldddd, not to devalue Gogeta but the final kamehameha is better than the big bang kamehameha.
Man idk, i think even gogeta was there he would loose too. Fusions arent get win in cannon. Vegito unfused cus of too much power and gogeta wouldnt be strong enough to beat zamasu too cus yk hes immortal and goku need to lower his power to fuse into gogeta
Gogeta Beat Broly Thats a Win. Gogeta Power is unlimited and he can draw any amount for 30 min stated in the late news. + Power level dont change How strong the fusuon is Just How well both are in sync( Gotenks being able to Go ssj3 without Goten or Trunks knowing How to transform). To finish soul punisher would one shoot zamasu.
@@guilhermesouza1908Soul Punisher erasing souls was the uncanon Gogeta. That has been changed since he became officially canon. It’s now a miniature Spirit Bomb from the Saiyan Saga that heavily damages the opponebt
@@guilhermesouza1908 explain Broly. There was zero evil in his heart and don’t even try saying it changes depending on who it’s used on since that right there is the definition of desperation to defend something that’s been changed. Everyone already is saying Vegito’s timer is 5 minutes now so at this point Vegito won’t be considered. Gogeta on the other hand isn’t comparable to a Destroyer at the slightest since if he truly could defeat anyone even someone immortal that makes him above Beerus and the other destroyers. So we all know how this goes
Number 1. His clothes, why is he wearing this still. It was literally stated that his clothes are a combination of vegeta and goku, so why does he have the same one that goku and vegeta had in the buu saga, it simply doesn’t make any sense.
Im surprised this video is even 3 minutes long because there is NOTHING wrong with vegito blue (other than the fact that its appearance was never meant to be)
Tbf, ssj4 gogeta was also a joke. I think unless it is a filler/not a reall villain we will never see a fusion actually winning, because it is an easy solution (that is why super vegito worked so well, his object wasn't defeating buu)
Let me know if you guys want to see more videos like this. I could pump these out a lot faster.
Mini Update: I’ll be at Dream Con next week, so videos on the channel will resume in August. See you guys soon! 💯❤️
I sure do😤🙏🏾
Have fun at the con tho and be safe fr
could you make a video of an ideal zamasu arc (for you)? maybe taking elements from the manga and anime and making all the wasted ideas have a coherent spot on the story like Vegetto, the unbalanced zamasu fusion form where he has half of his body damaged... it would be amazing
Can you do a video based off of Trunks super sayain rage form in the Goku black arc
I'm really glad that you showed the Broly image in the manga because I've been debating with my friend on whether or not his full power was in the manga and I know it wasn't it was only regular super Saiyan
AY AINT NOTHING WRONG WITH VEGITO BLUE HE THE BEST FUSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It actually was just fan service toriyama stated in his original draft for the black arc vegito wasnt even in it
If they never fuse it would be dumb of fource they won't forget about their last hope (fusion)
And the reason vegeta fused showed his character development especially in the manga
Source?
@@wbrodie55I think it’s on the interview done in the volumes of the Goku Black arc
Hell, whole reason Vegito didn't have a different design in the Zamasu arc was apparently because of the toys that were sold before his appearance.
@@divineshrek3307to me that was very stupid why his appearance didn’t change
Yeah, Vegito didn't exactly leave any lasting impact in the Goku Black Arc, I do think it was cool to see him and the fight he had with Zamasu was also pretty good, but one thing I've always wondered is why his clothes were the exact same as they were in the Buu Saga. 🤔
What you mean?? Only difference is VEGETA is wearing his cell arc fit compared to his buu saga fit??
@@ilytyypa That's literally the problem. 💀
Main reason for the outfit being the same… merchandising and nostalgia bait, hell that’s actually the only reason Vegito appeared in the arc because in an interview with Toyotaro during the manga’s publication of this arc, he said Toriyama’s Drafts which were given to him and Toei originally had just Goku and Vegeta working together in SSB to fight Zamasu, and that Toriyama didn’t plan on Goku and Vegeta ever using potara fusion again but Toei decided to add Vegito and due to fan expectations, Toyotaro followed suit and included him in the manga’s version of the arc as well. The interview is at the end of Volume 4 of the manga if you wanna read the full explanation Toyotaro and Toriyama gave in the interview
@@BCCSquidward elaborate
@@ilytyypa Potara Fusions typically mix the clothing of the people that fuse together, Vegeta wasn't wearing armor in the Buu Saga, so we got what we got, Vegeta however WAS wearing armor in the Goku Black Arc, so Vegito should've had some sort of armor when he showed up in the Goku Black Arc.
Was it a waste of vegito yes , was it his fault no
Yeah, Merged Zamasu can heal from all damage he through at him and was immortal, in the anime they said they needed a major boost to break down his body, not to kill him, but Vegito did absolutely try to kill him. He went blue right away and beat the shit out of him, only for the blue to wear down the time by 40 minutes. Because in the manga they fused 20 minutes after black and zamasu did and defused when zamasu has 20 minutes left, and I’m just gonna guess it’s the same in the anime.
@@charizardunites nope in the anime is was wayyyy shorter. Vegito was fused for 5 mins before defusing
@@sebastianamarebrown8671 To be fair, I don’t think they said how long vegito was there for, and the 5 minutes is probably from the episode’s timing which isn’t really relevant considering that the tournament of power was 48 minutes and lasted for multiple episodes that equaled many hours. And I don’t remember anyone in the show saying how long vegito stuck around for.
@charizardunites nah nah it's true actually. I don't remember who said it but they said they were only fused for like 5 mins
@@sebastianamarebrown8671 Alright, nice.
Vegito Blue got less screentime than Yamcha.
Damn
Ok, that's true but unnecessary, Jesus.
Duh
I mean yeah Yamaha doesn't get much screentime, but he's been a character since dragon ball,and he's one of the z fighters.
Vegito is supposed to be a special character that doesn't show up much and is only used for special situations.
Fuck that meme, Vegito blue’s definitely better. Besides Vegito’s a fusion of two saiyans where one of them doesn’t even like fusing
@charizardunites nah yamcha is just a flat-out better and more lovable charecter (he was just done dirty by akira). I feel the cocky "oh I'm so powerful I'll hold back because I'm so smug, arrogant, and annoying is SOOOOOOO over done.
Gogeta "The angel born in hell."
Vegito " The mortal that toys with the gods."
Actually it’s Vegito “The mix who surpassed gods or other wise known as the god killer.”
@@charizardunitesThat’s a fan made name btw
@@RandomGuylol1928 I know but it’s known by lots of people.
@@RandomGuylol1928fan made just like “the angel born in hell” 💀
@@camel521 Just me... But Vegito's fanmade name sounds like a modern day Manga title no hate💀
There's this other TH-camr called Jordan the Dragonlee who makes videos comparing Dragon Ball to its source material, Journey to the West, and how Gogeta and Vegito are parallels to enlightenment, thereby becoming masters of martial arts.
With this idea in mind, it would've been interesting for Vegito to the first one to figure out Perfected Super Saiyan Blue, as this shows the merger between Goku and Vegeta is more harmonious and is ever closer to the realms of godhood whilst Zamasu slowly falls from it.
Could even take it one step further, have it similar to the anime where Vegito fires off the Final Kamehameha, and teleports in to finish the job with a _Hakai_ before defusing right before he can finish it.
Goku can still use his Vegito experience to unlock Perfected SSB against a weakened Zamasu, while this sets the seeds for Vegeta learning how to use destruction energy in the Granolah arc.
nah this is written too well so they cant do it
@@tonyblgl Would have been thematically interesting as well in this scenario since the Potara, a item of the gods, effectively rejected a mortal from using the technique of the gods, which ties into the Mortals vs Gods theme the Goku Black arc had.
You are absolutely right. Even Toriyama's original draft for this arc was for Blue Goku and Vegeta to take on Merged Zamasu without fusion but the powers that be wanted fan service which lead to Vegito appearing 😓😪😒
Let’s admit it though, Vegito did have a badass fight in the anime and an awesome fight in the manga.
Source?
@@wbrodie55 What are you talking about? I said the anime and the manga, I saw the full manga version of the Goku black saga and the battle between merged zamasu and vegito blue on TH-cam.
@@wbrodie55 DBS Manga Volume 4: Full Toriyama-Toyotarō Interview ✌🏿
Here's a rewrite that I think makes sense.
Firstly, I would make the potara's mortal time limit drain slower when using god forms like Blue (perfected or not). It was explained that permanent fusion only happens when two divine beings do it, so divine ki would likely sustain a mortal fusion for longer, at least IMO.
Second, Vegeta should have been the one to attempt a Hakai on Zamasu. It would've served as great foreshadowing towards Ultra Ego. Plus, it makes more sense that Vegeta would have a better handle on Blue since he improved on Goku's god-switch technique earlier. Not to mention Trunks' motivating him to fight in honor of future Bulma.
Thirdly, I'd switch things around so that Vegeta's desperation Hakai takes place before he fuses with Goku. Then, during their fight, Zamasu would split apart sooner since he fused before Vegito appeared. After Trunks slices Zamasu and Black, he'd pin the two of them on the ground by his sword, allowing Vegito to finish them off with a proper Final Kamehameha.
That's the coolest stuff I can never imagine
Yes, that would be awesome.
yeah but yk toriyama never cares abt vegeta, dude is only a stepping stone for goku
@@old_blacky Fair enough, hell in db legends the only good Vegeta units are crosses with goku and also the Lf Nappa and Vegeta unit
@@charizardunitesonbro
The worst problem with Vegito blue in my opinion is that his fit is just straight up wrong, he has the same clothes as his buu saga appearance, but the reason he has those clothes in the buu saga is because they are a mix of Vegeta and Goku’s buu saga clothes, and Vegeta has different clothes and now wears armor in the Goku Black arc so Vegito’s appearance makes 0 sense.
Crazy cause I never noticed this.
nah lowkey its fine cause the only part coming from vegetas fit in the buu arc are the gloves and boots, same things happening here, for gokus fit they just reversed the colors
@@zeyrox729 the blue on top of the orange I’m pretty sure comes from Vegeta and his weird overalls/tank top/ one piece, could be wrong tho
@@Mical21that's just a recolored version of goku's gi
@@SadielHrz nuh uh
In the anime it was equally worse. At first Vegeta & Trunks overpowered Fused Zamasu.. And Goku ALONE did that same thing but f'd him up even worse. Vegito didn't do jackzhit in the fight and even his power consumption draining Final Kamehameha didn't phase Fused Zamasu.. But yet again, Future Trunks stopped him by HIMSELF with his Spirit Bomb Sword :D
The power of friendship!!! :D
Yet fused zamasu knocked tf out of vegito with a uppercut
That reminds me, I'm definitely gonna do a video on everything wrong with Super Saiyan Rage lol
@@justinsdenyou also have to justify the full power of Broly transformation then because it's in the same boat as super Saiyan rage makes no sense and it's not in the manga
@@LeutrimFazliu-je6ohBut Vegito Blue didn’t even get knocked out though he was playing pretend than he stabbed fused zamasu through the chest catching him off guard before they then started to fight again after fused zamasu’s speech.
This is the same issue I have with SS4 gogeta in gt. Showed up, beat up omega, got rid of the negative energy surrounding the earth.
Then he defuse before killing omega, both goku and vegeta lost SS4, omega spread more negative energy and the earth was about to be destroyed, only for goku to win with a spirit bomb
Tbh I’ll probably make the same video about Gogeta in GT.
Fusions just aren’t allowed to win in the main series, if it’s a movie it’s fine, but Goku always HAS to be the one to finish an enemy
It woulve been better if syn didnt become omega again, after the big 100x big bang attack of gogeta, omega lost all the other dragons in him and became normal syn again, just for him to eat the dragon balls again and be too op again, if he wasnt able to do that anymore it wouldve made more sense for goku to beat him alone
The thing is even if gogeta wwnt full power he would still fail to kill omega due to gokus energy being too low and we see that when goku gets Hurt by glass shards GLASS SHARDS in ss4 and wonce they defuse and try again goku reverts to his base showing how little energy goku truelly had
@@skndsidjd7540This is not supported by “canon” for gt. Gogeta literally shows he’s omega’s superior in every shape and form and was toying with him the entire fight despite omega going all out. Gogeta even says one more big bang kamehameha and he’ll be done for and omega doesn’t dispute that, only cowers before the fusion was undone. Fusion isn’t just character A plus character B, it significantly multiplies everything about two beings into an ultimate one
The fusion that never loses but never wins 😔
Vegito: Final Kamehameha, Savage Strike
*that's a wrap, you're done*
Gogeta: Stardust Fall, Super Kamehameha, God Punisher, Stardust Breaker, Punisher Shield, Meteor Explosion, Ultra Kamehameha
*yess king, you still got time*
fusion dance doesn’t take much time when going full power but potara in super got ruined
Bro covered my only problem with this arc
@@Anix09461 So... the whole Trunks living with another Trunks... that ending didn't bother you? Okay
So goku black getting random zenkais during is beatings didnt botherd you? He stabing is hand and pulling a weapon, is clones all that no logical stuff that was so random didnt botherd you?
Plus trunks terribel new form that come from nowhere?
The awfull ending?
Trunks somehow knowing spirit bomb?
18 making fun of Trunks ptsd wasnt a issue?
@@TheReZisTLust fr so many wrong thinks plot wise, action wasnt awfull but the plot lines...
@@tomasguilherme263most of those problems are just in the anime none of those problems happened in the manga beside vegito blue lmao
Gogeta Goated So Does Vegito.
is*
@@WankTrustwhat
He meant Gogeta is goated so is vegito @IkariBroly
@@doovid4322but the does makes more sense
@@MiraiSonGohanNo not really. Gogeta is goated and so is vegito, makes more sense.
Honestly, I wished the fight between Vegito and Zamasu was much longer, and that it’d end with Vegito disintegrating him with a Final Kamehameha, but the writers were genuinely braindead.
The only good arc in the entire show and they fucking ruined it.
Bro thank you so much it’s about time someone said it
The thing with the manga is that Vegito wasn’t planned, Toyotaro was the one that suggested it. As you said, Goku in his perfected blue was equivalent to Zamasu and almost outright beating him. Perfected blue is not a power up, it’s been constantly been said to be 100% blue without the drainage of power like we see in the champa tournament and beginning of the black arc. Fusions in general their power exceed the individual’s max powers, meaning Vegito and later on Gogeta in their base forms are already stronger than Goku and Vegeta’s blue forms, given Vegito was using blue recklessly and not perfected it caused the energy to literally deplete and be abused causing the the fusion to burn out, we see this contrast in their power to how base Vegito easily burned through half of zamasu, yet full power Goku blue only scratched him.
So overall the problem is that Vegito was too powerful for his opponent cause as you can see in the manga, it’s basically overkill, he could’ve easily used super Vegito and be fine dominating. So yea I agree that he should’ve been handled better but it’s just the issue of him being an afterthought and not originally being planned to be in the arc
Another thing that I have an issue with is that if Goku had mastered SSB, why’d he wait so long to actually use it, Vegeta’s statement basically confirms that Goku mastered SSB before they even fused so it would’ve made more sense if Goku fought in his mastered/perfected Blue form and then once the strain started to take effect, then resort to Potara as the last ditch effort and have Vegito Blue fight up until both his and Zamasu’s fusions wore off (I guess the only logical explanation for Goku using Perfected Blue afterwards is because of Vegito eating the last senzu, that restored both Goku and Vegeta’s energy hence why Vegeta felt Goku’s full power while fused) but I just wish Vegito would’ve had more purpose since he’s my favorite fusion (I like both him and Gogeta, but Vegito’s arrogance is why he’s my favorite lol)
I will admit if goku could have done it, Vegito should have been able to do it, in whiz’s eyes he’s the perfect fighter and should have done that in the manga.
vegeta realizes that goku is stronger than him when he fuses, it doesn't mean he has the perfect blue, because the perfect blue is just the blue without energy consumption, so when they fused at the beginning, vegeta has understood the true power of goku, and that's why he believes that he is the only one capable of beating zamasu, that's why trunks heals goku and not vegeta
@@kikitori2413 I can just hear Vegeta screaming in anger that he’s taking the L so many times. Getting his ass whooped, Goku being stronger than him, and his own son healing his rival instead of him.
This arc is just the epitome of bad writing in general. Vegito making an appearance makes sense considering the “Gods Vs. Mortals” theme. They could have given us a dope Ki Sword vs Ki Sword battle with Vegito proving why Mortals can stand up to Gods in the end and destabilizing Zamasu’s fusion but they didn’t do that either. This arc is just as poorly executed as any GT arc
In the post author comments in the manga Toyotaro mentions he decided to add Vegito to the story, and that it wasn’t in Toriyama’s original script.
my precious goat can never be wrong
I agree with you Justin!
They could have shown vegito overwhelming zamasu to the point where he completely bursts him into pieces and then we have army of fused zamasus, then they can diffuse only for zeno to intervene.
That's not a bad idea! It would have demonstrated Vegito's superiority in a more valid way. All in all though, I think it would have better for Vegito to have appeared in a different arc altogether unless the narrative was changed.
@@justinsden Yeah but I think Goku black arc was suitable for him to make a debut in DBS coz t.o.p is not suitable if they had plans to show mui and ssbe then again vegito would be useless, Moro arc introduced 'forced spirit fission', Granolah arc was about tui and ue so ig he was introduced in the right arc but poorly executed
0:03 - 0:10 I'm a nobody fan but I just needed to hear that because I've been trying to tell people for years (not really actually)
I remember reading this a few months ago about this but yes, Vegito being in the Goku Black saga was purely fan service. In the original draft, Vegito was never meant to appear, as Toriyama knew that Goku and Vegeta super saiyan blue forms were enough to defeat Fused Zamasu, and figured that because they were so powerful to not even need to fuse. But Toriyama decided to add Vegito as it was suggested by Toei, whom taught that the fans would want to see Vegito battling against fused Zamasu
Awesome video as always!
But are we going to skip the part where Shin called Vegito, Vegerot! XDDDDD
That name is so bad XD
0:33
Thank you bro! Lol I just stick to Vegito no matter what 😂
Vegito's defusion in Super offered a better reason why he defused in Z. It was not the fact that back in Z Goku & Vegeta were inside Buu's body, but because of the time limit. The Elder Kai said that the potara fusion was permanent but it is only permanent for Kais. Any mortals who use the potaras only stay fused for 1 hour. Elder Kai thought it was permanent because he onmy seen Kais perform that fusion
when they got the fit wrong when they fused, i knew that they were only for he merchandise lmao
Could have easily been solved by not retconning with a time limit, but when Zeno learns Goku doesnt "exist" anymore, he could tell the Grand Priest to fix it, and just does some angel stuff and boom.
There’s no retcon in super, we’ve only got an explanation this time. Vegito never had an actual reason as to why he defused inside of buu, and goku immediately shot down the magic inside of buu as an explanation, as gotenks never defused until the time limit.
I feel like if vegito just went into god form he would have lasted longer in the fight but Vegito Blue looks amazing tho
Vegito wasn’t even supposed to exist in the black arc, zamasu was always supposed to be weak enough to be physically dominated by 2 perfected ssjb.
Good video. Im one of the biggest vegito fans out, but it's just so sad that he didn't get a better moment in dragon ball super, maybe in the TOP or something but its alright i just hope he gets his moment sometime else
Vegito was necessary for the anime.
Vegito’s presence and taunts prompted Merged Zamasu to waste away his own immortal body for power to take on the fusion.
This would weaken and eat away at Zamasu, enough that the fighters had a better chance once the fusion ended.
Vegito may not have a direct Win/Finish in combat, but his utilization and intelligence to better deal with some of the franchises most hax opponents make him vastly more interesting than he is often credited.
He is more than just a cool Spirit Sword Fusion.
This was what I was saying about the Goku Black Arc in the manga. I do like the manga better at least the anime let Vegito Blue use all of his move sets from the Spirit Sword, to Instant Transmisson, and having a Final Kamehameha that actually was used and not cut off due to the fusion time limit
Imagine if instead, Trunks ALMOST defeat Zamasu but runs out of juice before he could finish him, getting Goku and Vegeta to put on the potara ear rings for the sole purpose of saving Trunks instead. Vegito beating Zamasu but unable to fully take him down for good would be a good motivation for Trunks to step in to assist Vegito, having both of them conjure their huge ki swords simultaniously striking down Zamasu. Wouldn't it be awesome?
They could've easily fixed a lot of Vegito's issues in this arc by repeating what they did with Buu. Maybe have Vegito use the Hakai on Zamas instead of Goku (which would honestly make more sense and set up Vegeta dabbling in destruction later) and manage to erase almost all the Goku Black half before splitting, bringing him back to a level Goku or Vegeta could actually stand against. It'd allow Vegito to contribute to the plot without derailing it too much.
I'm sure there would've been a better way to implement Vegetto's appearance, but all things considered - as far as the manga is concerned since that's the medium your video covers - I think Toyotaro did fairly well
To put ourselves in his position, he's essentially said that even though Vegetto was not in Toriyama's story outline, he essentially felt forced to include it anyway because fans who saw the anime would be disappointed if he didn't. He's also nothing if not totally reverent towards Toriyama and rarely ever diverged too much from his story outlines
So in short, he feels like his hands are tied to follow the plot beats: use of the Mafuba fails on Zamasu > Zamasu and Goku Black fuse > (Goku and Vegeta fuse) > Zamasu's fusion expires, but he only becomes an even bigger threat > Zeno button
When in Toriyama's mind, Fused Zamasu is roughly around the level of Goku and Vegeta together, individually. Toei wanted Vegetto, and so they had little choice but to scale up Zamasu. I honestly think Toyotaro did a decent job of keeping Zamasu closer to his intended strength by making Vegetto no diff if not for his immortality, and I think the explanation of the fusion ending prematurely *because* Vegetto was trying to put as much power as possible in order to overcome that immortality into his Final Kamehameha is satisfying enough
But that does still leave the issue of Goku performing as well as he did, which gives the impression that if anything, Toyotaro scaled Zamasu *down* from Toriyama's intent, which creates more than a little inconsistency in how fusion generally works since Goku Black is supposed to be at least a bit above Goku/Vegeta, so logically, even if Zamasu isn't all that strong, a fusion together with him should make the fused Zamasu much more than either could handle alone
Another problem with vegito in this arc is that we saw with gogeta that base gogeta was strongger than blue goku and vegeta. So if goku and vegeta could minimally hold their ground against zamasu, vegito wouldn't even need blue.
Sometimes being a vegito fan just feels like a struggle when not only having to defend the goat against the gogeta supremecist., but the series itself likes to give us the middle finger.
The outside universe reason is that They added vegito last minute for what I think was for fan service and to sell merchandise and toys, vegito was never gonna win trunks was planned to win (even though he really didn’t win which was bs) and it’s the Same thing with gogeta in gt it was for fan service the arc was already written to have Goku beat omega and disappear with the dragon, so they needed to come up with a way to stop the fusion from winning easily
Vegito js got done dirty in super
I genuinely think that the purpose of potara not working was to deviate away from the reliance of fusion anyway. Think about it. The potency of god ki is so great that it caused the earrings to be null in void. That also speaks to Beerus’ incredible strength which is predicated on god ki. Even if Vegetto was stronger than Beerus temporarily it wouldn’t have mattered because of the fusion time. Which is why relying on your own power is the more efficient, purposeful way to go as we see Jiren in the next arc not only trump the idea of fusion, but even Goku himself.
Heck even in the same arc we see that displayed with Goku not only putting up a better fight against FZ with his own power, but being able to master the form without any interference or time limit
Not to mention that in the anime, BEFORE the fusion, Goku also held back against Zamusu just with the Kaioken. It makes the fusion, just like the manga's, feel like it carries little wait and really isn't a power boost. A shame really.
Goatgeta just get favored everywhere but power.
What upsets me is that the fact that fusions don’t have unlimited energy with the time span that they have
The thing that really nags me is that Vegito's original debut is supposed to symbolise the end of both Vegeta and Goku's rivalry and the beginning of their friendship. Which is why the scene of Vegeta putting on the earring felt so,powerful to me, it wws Vegeta swallowing his pride. But Super throws thismout the window, even before this arc due to how Goku and Vegeta were acting during the frieza arc so Vegito's appearance is quite literally empty, he fills no role in a narrative sense at all.
Toyotaro stated that Vegito Blue wasn't even in the drafts by Toriyama and because the anime did it, he felt like he had to as well in his version of DBS manga. So yeah it was just an afterthought.
One point that's even worse about this execution of Vegito's re-introduction in the anime is most certainly his power.
It may not be as noticeable at first, but his fight with Zamasu was entirely equal. They both landed hits on eachother and traded blows, with Vegito even looking noticeably distressed during one scene (The one where Zamasu launches a ki-ai blast at Vegito, which makes the screen lose colour for a moment.)
So not only were they pretty much on-par, but the moment Zamasu powered up, Vegito wasn't even capable of remotely damaging him. A Final Kamehameha aiming to defeat Zamasu didn't even cause any scratches or marks. He was completely unscathed. Not only that, but every other attack Vegito used didn't even damage Zamasu or worry him. Even the first part of the omega finishing blow left him cold.
In the manga he's stronger atleast, but in both variations of the story, Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken / Perfect Blue Goku did MORE harm to Zamasu than Vegito Blue.
Look how dirty they've done my potara king, man..
In the manga, it’s not even a close fight, perfected blue goku is only SLIGHTLY stronger than him, but vegito had no trouble at all, he literally destroyed zamasu’s body in base.
@@basimali619 Vegito from the start said he'll go all out against Zamasu and won't even leave him any time to regenerate, yet Zamasu still feels confident and doesn't take much damage throughout the battle aside from the ki blast (which he got caught off guard by, so his defenses are low) and the spirit sword which he immediately recovered from.
Meanwhile Goku was able to push Zamasu into an even more desperate position to the point where he wasn't able to regenerate cleanly and didn't even take a chance to regenerate his clothing, unlike with Vegito where he literally recovered his outfit between hits. The argument is wonky, but there's multiple points to support SSBP Goku > Vegito Blue and vice versa. Such shouldn't be the case imo, it's just dumb super scaling.
Keep in mind that according to Toriyama Vegito is Goku's power x Vegeta's power, so somehow Goku alone was able to get close to the power of him not plus Vegeta but multiplied by Vegeta on his own just by mastering blue, how this makes any sense is beyond me.
As far as i know Toriyama's draft didn't feature Vegito at all but rather had Goku and Vegeta taking turns against Zamasu
If anything my only true problem with vegito in the black arc is that he still has his buu saga fit even though vegeta has his saiyan armor on in this arc
LOL I never thought about that
Bruh leave me alone😭😭
LOL
I bet reddit is full of people who will say the Powerscaling in Super is perfect, and this arc is just that good.
Vegito is so cool but its such a shame that they don't give him any W's. Why? I'd be much happier if the Goku Black arc ended with Vegito finishing the job than giving Trunks some random ass pull
Finally, someone who agrees that it didn't matter in the anime or the manga.
The thing is, in the script for the black arc that toriyama wrote, vegito wasnt a part of it, vegito were toei and toyotarou's idea, it was basically to hype the arc up, and since vegito was never in the script he was never meant to beat zamasu, this really gave vegito a bad reputation
I never knew that. That would explain Vegito's lackluster appearance.
What’s crazy is that Vegito has an HOUR usually and Gogeta had 30 minutes. Vegito went straight to blue and didn’t last more then 5 minutes Gogeta got a whole ass movie masterclass probably cuz he was pacing himself from base to SSJ to blue and didn’t defuse till after Frieza left. And that’s still crazy. Bro Vegito even gets down dirty in heroes. Two vegitos can’t take down a single broly yet Gogeta is treated like the final damn boss 😭. Vegito can’t catch a break or a win.
Well two things, Vegito Blue was just a showcase of how powerful a fusion can be compared to goku and vegeta using an unstable and unmastered form against a god with perfect fighting technique. Another showing of Fusion just being capable of fixing everything, but it was more used in this scene as a retcon sort of situation or even just to show how INSANE blue drains the fusion, even if vegito was toying with zamas.
Second, it also goes to show how INSANELY powerful multipliers and transformations are really in dragon ball, as they have had the same scaling since mid-late dragon ball with characters just getting far stronger, to the point where they can basically ONE TAP their previous self from the last arc. Goku in the RoF arc with blue and Goku in the U6 arc with blue would be hilariously one sided, and im talking abt the manga not anime, but even still its worse because goku learned kaioken + blue in the anime making it EVEN WORSE for anime RoF goku. Goku just mastering the concept of blue and honing its ki and not letting the aura out all the time gave him the power boost strong enough to rival merged zamas.
Thats crazy because the same thing can be said for Ssj goku using grade 1 without control or adaption with the form and goku using grade 1 while mastered. Yes obviously goku trained but if goku had mastered ssj on namek he would one tap frieza, would be on par with the androids, and could put up a fight with post ginger town imp cell for a little. It shouldnt be a surprise to ANYBODY with how crazy DB's scaling of power has been. literally majority of T.O.P characters, and yes including fucking ribrianne, is high universal to low multi. And thats insane given characters of higher tier are outerversal (goku, vegeta, jiren, freiza, whis, beerus, granolah, gas, gohan, ect.)
For an hour fusion timer it really feels like they swapped gogeta and vegitos timers gogetas timer is 30 minutes but he had a longer drawn out fight vegito having a less drawn out fight with zamasu
I hated how they introduced him then thinking he'd be the one to finish off Fused Zamasu just for it to be a small fight where they went toe to toe "Even though Goku and Vegeta were superior" and have them defuse when the shit was getting intense and that bothered me because I'm a huge Vegito fan
Vegito is just the foreshadowing of a Spirit attack 🤷🏽♂️he seems to strictly be a literary device
Apparently Vegito Blue originally was never planned, so it makes sense
I can't pay attention the music is too good!
Budokai Tenkiachi 2 has some great music
THIS is why I said gogeta vs vegito isn’t a fight that can be scaled and based
Because people don’t listen, the FUSIONS TIME LIMIT CAN DEPLETE FASTER. In the manga vegito didn’t even last ten minutes yet gogeta vs broly only lasted five. So no one really knows who stronger.
Yes gogeta has the power cap at the dance being equal in power, but that can imply the fusion sustaining the entire time limit unless the access a new form unlike vegito barely sustaining their form.
Ontop of, if you break the earrings(anime canon btw) the fusion ceases. And I’m pretty damn sure it’s easy to do that
Here’s why gogeta blue doesn’t work as well
1. They could’ve just used the Potora from elder Kai because it has a longer time limit
2. Goku could’ve just asked beerus to help them defeat Broly even if he was babysitting there’s no way he would let earth get destroyed because of the food
3. Goku could’ve just let Broly beat up him and eventually he would’ve unlocked ultra instinct 😂
4. Whis would just rewind time if the earth got destroyed by Broly
5. Goku has the Zeno button 💀
I'm gonna have to refute some of these points cuz... what are these points fam...
1. Why go to the lengths of Potara and waste time (potentially making the Earth go bye bye.) just for ultimately the same results as Gogeta Blue or failure due to defusing. But this isn't a bad point per se.
2. Beerus most likely would've killed/erased Broly knowing he most likely wouldn't be tamed and Goku was still on the bandwagon of redeeming Broly, which is why he wouldn't wanna go to those lengths.
3. ....Really?
4. This is a good point. I will not try and refute it.
5. Same as Beerus. Zeno wouldn't try and befriend Broly knowing he wouldn't understand the Omni-King and probably erase him, something even Whis wouldn't be able to fix with a Temporal Do-Over. Also why would Goku still have the Zeno Button?
@@glitchyboi50 Alright I agree 👍
Lol I was gonna refute some of these points but I see someone beat me to it.
First one makes no sense tho they had more than enough time to go for the potara if they got enough time to fail the dance twice i feel waiting like max 5 minutes of teleporting and asking for them compared to over an hour is better
The other arguments yeah beerus woudnt spare broly zeno is a big NO and whis reversing time is just gonna delay it being destroyed again/ cause beerus to kill broly
Perfected Super Saiya-Jin Blue Son Goku (超サイヤ人ブルー孫悟空の完成形) just built different on the Manga.
Damn, it's sucks that Vegetto (or Vegito) didn't leave a significant impact on this arc and have been overshadowed by Mastered Super Saiya-Jin Blue Son Goku.
Exactly. Thats basically my point.
0:35 okay i love Shin hes my faviorout character but i have to say Hes an unrelibel Source tbh Plus im sure Shin can.t sense Ki Se hes just observing what he saw Im sure Shin saw beerus at most fight in Bog Wear beeeus was Holding back
I mean they retconned the hell out of Potara and Vegito
Vegito need his movies. Thats the only way they can make him great again
I feel like it should’ve been like filler buu when goku went ssj3.
I think it kinda unfair how mortal fusion get to appear in big screen yet a divine fusion that matched the G.O.D power only appear in manga and the anime show
Hot take, I think that the way the Potara are handled in Super is the way the Metamoran Fusion Dance should be. Vegito has had a habit of either being matched against fighters that literally can't be beaten or having dumb writing handicap him. By all accounts it makes no sense that the Fusion Dance, a technique that anyone could learn, creates an ultimately more well rounded fusion than these incredibly rare earings only attainable by Kais. Imo the fact that Potata themselves are much harder to get should make Vegito just stronger, and instead the Fusion Dance should be the one that has a power cap before splitting the fusion like what happened in GT. I honestly don't care too much about DBS but am I crazy for thinking this?
Vegito was just so damn unecessary in this arc... it really is a shame. If you removed him from the story, things would barely change
Zamasu wasn't even that powerful of an opponent to warrant Goku and Vegeta fusing to beat him, much less to warrant Vegito's use of SSB to fight him. We saw how in the anime, the Father-Son Galick Gun, Goku's full power and SSB Kaioken, and SS Rage Trunks with the Final Hope Slash could overpower and even injure Zamasu. Even Toriyama himself admitted that he thought two SSBs were more than enough to handle Zamasu. He only wrote in Vegito because Toyotaro told him it would please the fans
Not only that, retconning Potara fusion's duration was a horrible mistake
The point of it was that it was keewwl
Bruh they dropped the ball so hard with Vegito in Super it hurts to this very day.
He returns after not being seen since Buuhan fight and kicks ass for a brief moment, but surprise surprise potara gets retconned and vegito defuses in the most critical moment... And all because Trunks just NEEDED to have this win. Funny, when Vegeta needed to have the kill in Resurrection of F they were like nah Goku lol but when It would make sense for Vegito to end Zamasu they suddenly started to care about storytelling. It would unironically be better if Vegito didn't appear at all. At least that way, he wouldn't get shafted and devalued as he did. At the VERY LEAST they could've updated Vegito's design since in this arc, Vegeta was wearing his upper body armor which logically speaking should've had an impact on the way Vegito should look but no, they literally just copy pasted his design from the Buu arc.
and heres something new Vegito Bl- *defuses*
Wish they showed the perfected ssb form with vegito and him doing the hakai. Would've been so sick
To be fair isn’t this a similar issue to Gojita SS4? Overpowered to the point Omega Shenron did not even phase him at all but given a time limit which made everything after kind of underwhelming.
He was an afterthought . Toyo said it
They don’t want vegito to be great
I am not a Vegito I am a Gogeta fan but whenever I remember Vegito vs Merged Zamasu it angers me that how they trashed him just to make a shitty villain like Zamasu to look like a threat. Super Vegito should've overpowered Merged Zamasu like within 5 minutes without having much trouble.
Ngl I think Toriyama may be behind this one. I’m pretty sure Akira Toriyama gives only key story beats and a rough draft for every arc for everyone to loosely follow so I think Toriyama just wrote down stuff like Vegito shows up to fight Zamasu, after a while defuses, someone comes in and defeats Zamasu, Zamasu somehow comes back, Zeno destroys everything. The moments leading up to Zeno destroying the universe seems to be left up to Toyotaro and Toei to finish thats why they’re different.
It just seems odd that both manga and anime would drop the ball so hard on the ending in the same way so I feel Akira’s notes had to have smt to do with it, but idk maybe its something else
Incorrect. Vegito was confirmed Toyotaro's idea
@@brandoncsb ah ok did toyotaro also give the idea for the anime as well?
It's hard to say this as a vegito fan but him appearing in the goku black arc is just a fan service and nothing more
Imagine if trunks and vegeta fused
You can never change my mind on Vegito blue
yup, its the same with gogeta gt, db is just extremely inconsistent sumtimes
I dont have a problem with Vegito defusing due to an unstable power level. My problem comes in with Kefla where she uses an absurd amount of power against goku yet she never defused and when she did defuse it was because goku hit her with such a powerful kamehameha it shattered the potoras
Kefla power output was kids play compared to Goatgito
to writing reasons yeah toriyama and toyotaro had to give a product that resembled the anime. But perfect goku blue is far from close to blue Vegito. The man was stronger than Fusion Zamas in base, just wanted to do overkill cuz he didn't knew that a fusion breaks on high amount of energy consume
You say it
It's a fan service
Which fusion do you like better
Vegito imo
Gogeta is better no lie 😂
Gogeta’s appearance won me over
Grew up as a Gogeta fan, became a Vegito enjoyer.
Vegito and Gogeta got that dawg in em, but Vegito's final kamehameha is just so coldddd, not to devalue Gogeta but the final kamehameha is better than the big bang kamehameha.
@@justinsden same bro
Damn bro what did I do
Man idk, i think even gogeta was there he would loose too. Fusions arent get win in cannon. Vegito unfused cus of too much power and gogeta wouldnt be strong enough to beat zamasu too cus yk hes immortal and goku need to lower his power to fuse into gogeta
Gogeta Beat Broly Thats a Win. Gogeta Power is unlimited and he can draw any amount for 30 min stated in the late news. + Power level dont change How strong the fusuon is Just How well both are in sync( Gotenks being able to Go ssj3 without Goten or Trunks knowing How to transform). To finish soul punisher would one shoot zamasu.
@@guilhermesouza1908Soul Punisher erasing souls was the uncanon Gogeta. That has been changed since he became officially canon. It’s now a miniature Spirit Bomb from the Saiyan Saga that heavily damages the opponebt
@@zen2740 lmao what theres no place saying that 😂.
@@guilhermesouza1908 explain Broly. There was zero evil in his heart and don’t even try saying it changes depending on who it’s used on since that right there is the definition of desperation to defend something that’s been changed. Everyone already is saying Vegito’s timer is 5 minutes now so at this point Vegito won’t be considered. Gogeta on the other hand isn’t comparable to a Destroyer at the slightest since if he truly could defeat anyone even someone immortal that makes him above Beerus and the other destroyers. So we all know how this goes
Number 1. His clothes, why is he wearing this still. It was literally stated that his clothes are a combination of vegeta and goku, so why does he have the same one that goku and vegeta had in the buu saga, it simply doesn’t make any sense.
W Justin 🫡🐐
Im surprised this video is even 3 minutes long because there is NOTHING wrong with vegito blue (other than the fact that its appearance was never meant to be)
💀💀💀
Tbf, ssj4 gogeta was also a joke. I think unless it is a filler/not a reall villain we will never see a fusion actually winning, because it is an easy solution (that is why super vegito worked so well, his object wasn't defeating buu)
That's rough
And it was also said that goku and vegeta was not posted to fuse in the original story so it was definitely was fan fiction
Also, his outfit is WRONG!! He should have Vegeta’s armour too