What a serious escalation means for Andretti F1 dispute
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
- "Cartel-like behaviour", making "excuses", and a model that may be 'entirely broken'. F1 has received a stinging attack over its continued opposition to Andretti Cadillac's would-be new team.
The dispute over F1's rejection of the planned General Motors-backed Andretti Global project has escalated amid mounting political pressure in the United States.
The proposed new F1 team has been in limbo for months, ever since the commercial rights holder dismissed its application despite the FIA giving Andretti the green light in October last year.
Since being blocked, Andretti has continued with its preparations, pursued a dialogue with Formula One Management to try to get it to reconsider, and been considering its options should that fail. Getting political support in the US appears to be crucial to that final point.
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#f1 #f12024 #andretti #cadillac #gm #generalmotors #formulaone #formula1 #fia #grandprix #f1news #formulaoneracing #f1team - กีฬา
Someone please start a rumour about Adrian Newey talking to Andretti🤣
Already done!
Ahahahaaah!!!!!! GENIUS IDEA!!!!
This would be grand.
This happened almost immediately after Newey’s resignation.
@@sportkiteflyerhonestly it would not surprise me. Especially if they gave him enough "free range" of car development. I mean I highly highly doubt he would leave Red Bull on a maybe they will get on the grid. It would be really cool to see it happen though!
My god, please give them the green light. We need new teams so we can have more talent in the sport.
They're already poaching existing talent
@@gonzo1354 but a 20% increase in seats plus tons of engineering and team support spots increases spots for every aspect of the sport
They barely manage to drive with 20 cars, they will just crash even more with 22 because 90% of the drivers are pathetic spoiled ego crybabies whose parents are rich.
But teams aren't there just for the sport. It's about money and how much they will get at the end of the season. One thing it's sharing the money for 11 teams, another its by 12. That's why teams are blocking Andretti
And will introduce another engine manufacturer in F1
The double standards that have been deployed to reject Andretti's bid is insane
even more crazy they are being questions by a guy with double standards
If I may play Devil's Advocate, Andretti as a team is significantly smaller than any of these mass manufacturers FOM is trying to attract into the sport, which is important to note because Andretti is trying to attract more casual F1 fans and DTS fans into the sport, which is only really possible if they have car manufacturers instead of dedicated race teams because more ppl are just familiar with car brands and can relate to and support them better. Audi and Porsche alone are significantly more massive than Andretti, with knowledge of Andretti and his legacy known only within the realm of motorsport. Yes, Andretti coming to F1 would bring more American fans to the sport, but do you know what would bring even more American fans than that? *Audi, Porsche, Cadillac, Toyota, Nissan, or literally any auto manufacturer.* So yes, there is truth to FOM's claim that F1 would bring more value to Andretti than Andretti would bring to F1 until Cadillac's entry into the sport. You may not like it. Trust me; I sure as hell don't. But it's the truth. By this logic, Cadillac would have a lot more luck getting a grid spot if they went without the Andretti name and entered the sport alone for 2026 solely because of Cadillac's positioning as an engine manufacturer
@@mrsoisauce9017 Damn I agree with u
@@mrsoisauce9017 What part of General Motors/Cadillac are you missing there? F1 teams were trying to poach Cadillac away from Andretti so there must be value there.
@@scrody38 Cadillac is a manufacturer. Andretti is not. I was literally just trying to say that. Besides, the other teams are already in the sport, so it doesn't matter what they do anymore
One of the most famous names in US motorsports gets denied, yet CashApp Visa RB has "value"?
Redbull invested when no one else would maybe if andretti believed in f1 like other teams did he wouldnt be sat outside crying about not being involved
Or Haas, or Sauber (if not a placeholder for Audi). Time to “relegate” the bottom teams to make room for a team willing to invest to compete.
@@russell6075 Andretti: mam mam the bigger boys won't let me play with them 😭
@@andrewbragg504 thats basically it
To me, the craziest thing about F1 is that Red Bull is allowed to own two teams.
If Alpine can be in F1, so can Andretti.
Why pick on Alpine though? Not only do they have a solid history in F1 as Renault but have been a regular P4-P6 for the past seasons.
@@soundscape26 You said it in your comment. Regularly P4-P6 and never anything more. The fact that they've gone backwards is extremely embarrassing, especially for a works team. They will be eternally mid
I would say if Haas/Sauber can be in F1, so can Andretti. Realistically, add Williams to that list. It's been more than a decade since they've seen the top step of the podium.
@@smokeybandit9760 I mean why single out Alpine when half the teams are underperforming and one team isn't even a championship competitor but a junior team to begin with.
@@smokeybandit9760 They're allowed to have a couple bad seasons I think... look at where McLaren were for the bast part of the last decade or even worse, Williams.
fuck it, 20 teams, 40 cars
THIS IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE NASCAR RACE EVER lmaoo
Bring back PRE-QUALIFYING
12 teams 36 cars
The fact F1 wanted Audi & Porsche that would've led to 12 teams but don't want Andretti Cadillac to raise the team count to 11 is beyond ridiculous. F1 need to grow up and play by their own rules.
Think Porsche was looking at buying a stake Redbull (subsequently replaced by Ford) and Audi has bought Sauber so that wouldn't mean any additional teams on the grid, just name changes
Ten F1 teams: we just don't want to split the purse money with more teams. For F1 to claim no consultations with the existing teams is highly questionable.
@@PJH13 yup Andretti could have outbid Audi for the team or make an offer for another existing team that they are willing to accept and they would be in.
Audi and Porsche are massive European manufacturers. Andretti is an American racing team. By race team standards, they're huge, but by manufacturer standards, they're embarrassingly small, especially compared to the scale of the automotive giants that are Porsche and Audi. By this logic, if Cadillac wanted to enter independently of Andretti, I guarantee you they'd be welcome in with open arms. I'm not trying to defend FOM here. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate
@@mrsoisauce9017 yes, the other teams and liberty have decided that Andretti won’t bring additional value to the series. So Andretti has to pay to offset that lost revenue since the teams will be having to share revenue 11 ways instead of ten. Money cures all and Andretti just haven’t met F1’s price.
Gym Jordan supporting the expansion of F1 was definitely NOT on my bingo card this year
Jim Jordan was not likely on it either.
calling him gym jordan was probably an intentional thing given his history of protecting an abusive wrestling coach
What does "Gym" mean? Are you trying to mock him because he's a republican and you don't agree with him?
@@sam-nariman6236 not it is because he covered up a wrestling coach who sexually abused athletes.
@@seancca As I fast read some articles he allegedly accused of worngdoing. I don't know him but these accusations in social media have got out of hand.
Andretti: "We're fully invested into F1, we have everything set up already, and our fanbase of millions will increase your American audience."
F1: "We prefer spending billions making street tracks in random US cities no one asked for and letting the HAAS team play "Uber Driver: Grid Edition" instead. But, thank you for your offer!"
If you have 3 races in the us but no real American team (haas don’t count) then you have a serious problem because there is no team for Americans to really follow now that guenther left haas
Exactly. F1 just doesn't wanna waste money for a team they think will fail to bring more Americans into the sport when a team like Haas exists. Ridiculous I'm telling ya
@@Teiganskigood, F1 was better before you cared.
@@Teiganski Why don't Haas count? Are they not based in America but with a European base for logistics? You know, like Andretti are going to do
Andretti should have Cadillac and be a real team rather than haas buying everything from ferrari
I miss those 24+ car grids...
I remember the early 1990s when 36 cars were entered. This did mean there was a pre-qualifying session on Friday morning resulting in some teams going home shortly afterwards. This got some,teams into qualifying but there were more cars in that than were allowed on the grid. So more teams of cars would finish the weekend on Saturday afternoon.
I was too young to remember these days, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with the "pinnacle of motorsport," allowing this type of thing.
I miss Privateers (usually running last year's car or some POS they made in their garage)...
@@Mike-px6pg They still had pre-qualifying when I went to Spain in 1990. The session was due to start at 8:30am (?) but it was still too dark and they delayed it for 30 minutes. Even then it was too dark to take pictures of the cars on track (I was trying to get a picture of the Life car 'at speed' - sadly I don't think it even managed a full flying lap!).
I didn’t realize that, in this case, “political pressure” literally means political pressure.
Americans do love a good lawsuit
Americans loves lawsuits like the French loves strikes.
F1: We want more manufacturers and teams in the sport. Also F1: no new entries permitted!
Yep, it's the hypocrisy that's maddening. OK, F1, if you really don't want another team, that's your prerogative (even though it belies the name "World Championship"). But then don't go around pretending that you do.
Competitive teams***
@@richardgutierrez9223As if they can be worse than Haas, Williams, Alpha Tauri and Renault.
@@richardgutierrez9223 this is the bullshit word they keep using. What does competitive mean? When Verstappen wins by 20+ seconds what do you call the rest if the teams? When Mercedes was winning 1+2 with 30+ seconds what do they call it? The lack of competitiveness is F1's own fault. The rules state a team must qualify within 103% of the pole sitter. Right now they all do. That is the benchmark. If teams can produce cars that meet that benchmark then F1 shouldn't be denying teams before they've even built a car. This is about splitting the money more than 10 ways and nothing else.
Cartel like behaviour, making excuses, entirely broken model is exactly what define the F1 behaviour around andretti saga
yes just like every US sport. I guess it would be very hard for someone to found a basketball team and convince the NBA to get an extra spot for that team instead of buying an existing team.
Hmmm. NFL, NBA etc have world championships but only US teams in closed leagues. Only difference that F1 is not a closed American league and they have said no to an American team. I would like to see more teams, including Andretti. I don’t think Andretti will do as well as they think, it is very different to spec series like Indy or NASCAR etc. but would expect them to be much better than Haas.
F1 highlighting the fact that the three teams that joined F1 in 2010 (HRT, Lotus and Virgin, does USF1 honestly count?) failed seemingly of their own accord is an unbelievable double standard. The teams joined the grid on the promise that a cost cap would be introduced, and could/should therefore realistically be able to be competitive with a far less lucrative budget than the more established teams. The cost cap never materialised and the teams were ultimately left up the creek without a paddle.
Literally said, "that's because you fucked them" out loud when I heard this.
I'm curious what F1's response would have been if Penske had been the one that applied.
Same result. The teams don't want extra competition (which isn't inherently wrong from their perspestive) and FOM in a very IMSA/ACO move went "privateers are yucky" and sided with the teams.
@@kartaltoth684 Penske is a bigger name than Andretti though
@@kartaltoth684 F1 fault tho they already rich why not keep same price money and just added other come on they rich already ...
@@MrSniperfox29Penske was never World F1 Champion as was Mario. Penske dabbled in F1 decades ago but didn’t show any commitment.
@@MrSniperfox29 yet still not a manufacturer so FOM doesn't see them joining worth upsetting literally all 10 teams.
If Andretti actually pulls this off, and is legitimately competitive once on the grid, there DEFINITELY making a movie about this.
And that means even more money and exposure for the sport
eww no
And tell what story exactly?
@@djoetma You must be very dense. A world famous racing team from a family of well known race car drivers including a former F1 world champion who is being denied entry into the sport he won in? Bending over backwards for this clowns at Liberty media and still being denied forcing their hand with political action. If you don't think there's a story to be told you're an absolute walnut.
Kinda reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer wins in court against Piracy laws and then shuts the door behind him. Andretti is gonna be just as petty once they already have a spot in the paddock.
I love this.
Finally the FOM and Liberty Media get some pushback for their BS excuses.
The FIA said yes and that should be enough to be part of the F1. But FOM made up some nonsense that if it would apply to current teams, then 2/3 of them would not be on the grid at all.
Therefore, I hope that the FOM and Liberty Media fail miserably and get their ass handed to them. And I also hope that the european legaslature also takes a look at this and reacts.
The whole escalation thing is definitely General Motors led. GM has lawyers in congress so I don’t see Liberty Media or FOM standing any chance in this. LM will pretty much be pressured into letting andretti in. They will be like… “wanna reject an American manufacturer?” “Then get the hell out of the US Market.”
@@alextrifs youre saying that if andretti doesnt go in they are gonna tell f1 to leave all the us based races and also to stop using us base companies such as ford??? also on top of that you think they will also make them stop using us sponsorships? yeah right........... the us market and their races are like sargent logan, not impresive or good at all, watching a US race is like watching a game of football if anything getting into the US market has completely change the sport for the worse.
@@campossimracing absolutely irrelevant. like it or not the US races bring in an insane amount of money for F1. Racing doesn’t matter, money does, thats why andretti was rejected and thats why Liberty Media wants more US races.
Liberty media have created something incredibly valuable. 10 teams were there to build it with them. Now when being an F1 team can generate actual revenue some guy comes along and wants in. From a sporting standpoint should he be allowed in? Yes. From a business perspective is it a good idea? Maybe not. He's not going to be able to pull his own weight, will be seconds off the slowest teams and eventually sell the team or shares of it to a giant and pocket millions. I would like an 11th team on the grid but FOM have a point and a rather good one. This is a sport which pays Ferrari because of how long they've been in F1 and other teams don't have a problem with that. Don't talk about being fair.
I really can't see Andretti being competitive in the midfield without a major manufacturer with them from the onset, the FIA is justified in holding the Andretti entry until GM is ready to provide a PU for Andretti's own good. If they think they can run one PU then just swap over to GM without a lot of pain and suffering they are in for a rude awakening. I would like to see Andretti/GM F1 eventually though, just like a Penske/Ford entry would be pretty amazing!
Domenicalli is a clown and was responsible for Ferraris downfall the fact hes head of F1 is a joke
Amen!
Yeah I have no idea how he managed to become CEO of F1. I really miss Chase Carey because he actually cared about the sport and did so many good things for it
He's keeping F1 profitable though. 🤷
It's not that I like the man that much, but TV numbers are high and the stands are full... even in an era of domination by one team.
He's just the F1 Team Principle's puppet.
There are too few teams on the grid. I’d like to see 13.
12 should be the cutoff
@@shafaykhan10w42 12 would be the perfect cutoff for the Top 12 rule too. So it's still half the grid gaining points but also still gaining the merits of having more point scoring positions
How are they supposed to join as an 11th team in 28' if they change the conchord so only 10 teams can be on the grid? Sounds kind of like a catch 22 if you ask me, wait till 28, and you can join, but if you wait til 28, there's no more room for another team
Thats the entire point. Its just straight up dishonesty.
@umungus518 then, I can't believe I'm about to say this, maybe the US government is right to intervene
@@nickstadler919the US government can do all they like but you do realise that the rest of the world doesn't have to abide by America law?
@@andrewbragg504 yes, but Liberty Media, which is a large reason for all this blocking, is an American company, and must comply with US anti-trust laws and can't just bulldoze through with anti-competitive business practices and collusion to exclude Andretti.
@@andrewbragg504 Liberty media works in America and even an American company so they are at the mercy of our laws F1 included
Why on earth would Andretti spend millions on millions of dollars after being jerked around on the promise of "No really, we want you for 2028, just stay quiet till then." When There's open talk of closing the door in the new concord agreement?
I think its the principle now for them they want to prove f1 wrong.
...because if they don't make a fuss now, then the door gets closed forever in the next Concorde agreement?
He sees easy profits now they have a spending cap.
That is the ONLY reason he wants in... or he would have bought Minardi years,ago.
@@yt.personal.identificationI wouldn't be surprised to see andretti turn up to Austin with a functional car and set a few lap times on the Monday after the race to say well we would have been competitive.......
@@John-fy6dw Not sure if serious.
Either way... hilarious
If in the rule book, it says "maximum 12 teams" then why not allow the 11th team on the grid?? at this point, I really hate how F1 and FIA think they don't need to follow their own rules.
Fia said yes. Its f1 that's being dishonest and constantly moving the goal posts to prevent an 11th team.
@@umungus518and supposedly the f1 teams want to put a 10 team limit for the new Concorde agreement
@@leoarevalo6786 i know. They tell andretti to wait until 2028 and they'll get approved meanwhile they are trying to change the concord agreement to limit the grid to 10 teams. Its ridiculous and dishonest.
@@leoarevalo6786 Does the FIA need to approve the concorde agreements? If so then with Sulayem's attitude about wanting to bring in more teams might cause problems there.
It’s up to the FIA to decide your Congress won’t be able to do anything you silly gooses. Stop thinking you Americans can get your way in every single situation just because you want it.
What Liberty Media and F1 is doing is same as back in 2010 when most teams wanted to break away and create a formula super league. Football tried this with the super league. Trying to change the rules ACTIVELY to prevent Andretti entering F1. Like trying to change the concorde agreement so that the number of teams allowed goes from 12/13 to 10. How convenient. F1: Oh we do want you here but we are only allowing 10 Teams. How about spending $1 Billion To Purchase an existing team"
Fair play to Andretti for not backing down and also have huge investment in F1, other lower Formula Categories and even in likes of WEC.
Reminds me when watching sky's syper greed - the fight for football -, this is what I had in mind also when they rejected andretti and changing rules, if im not mistaken in F1 there is also founder funds only the old teams can receive this money, reminds me of super greed football
@@bukaneja "only the old teams". No, only one team: Ferrari.
@@DJShadesUK pretty sure Mclaren gets some of that too
@@MooseGaming33 Nope, only Ferrari. A so-called 'Heritage Bonus' because they've been in F1 since the beginning.
Ask anyone who has ever raced in anything. bigger fields more fun.
Megavalanche.
F1 and FOM Translation: “WAAAAH I don’t want an 11th team 😭😭😭😭”
Andretti translation: wahhhhhhh i cant get what i want, im gonna sue you!
They have a spare garage for Brad Pitt to put his fictional team into but not a real team.
If I'm not mistaken, part of the requirements for getting Grade-1 certification for a circuit is having a minimum of 12 garages. One spare and one for the weighing of the cars and other park ferme stuff (the one you see the drivers walking into after qualy to be weighed)
tracks have a requirement to have room for 13 teams (26 garages), with 4 extra garages to spare (scales, safety car etc) for a total of 30. I believe even the smallest pitlanes (Monaco, Zandvoort) has 30 or a few more. hell, some tracks have 40-45+ due to endurance racing needs
I think it's been pointed out in previous Race podcasts that the FIA sell those unused garage spaces off as "ringside seats" so to speak... Don't want Andretti taking away F1's precious hospitality revenue.
Andretti will bring a spare chasis.... also padock space?? F1 host a fake F1 team for a movie at a lot of the circuits...
But where will that team you were talking about, Visa CashApp RB, go when a new real team comes in?!
@@Leith_Crowther the team I was referring to is APEX. The fictional team for movie that Brad Pitt is starring in
@@BBProductions60Well, that’s perfect then! They’ll only have to relocate one of the fake teams!
@@BBProductions60He was kidding bro.
Indeed some ridiculous arguments .... this year, just THREE teams "competed for podiums" (if I count P1-P4 for "competing for podiums" - status: after GP Miami). They should just admid: we do not want to give away a piece of the cake ! Cheers M.
Super greed F1 edition
Not letting Andretti in is insane to me. He has literal manufacture backing, more money than most of the field, a history of owning winning and successful race teams in other series,l and an actual US based team that millions of American fans would back. Andretti makes WAY more sense than HAAS. F1 is being petty and it's clear that Merc, ferrari and red bull are scared and colluding to keep him out. It's disgusting
Andretti also makes way more sense than Williams and Alpine at this point. Unfortunately.
They would be better than a a lot of teams. First season I would predict 6-7 constructors place.
It's the backmarkers like HAAS who are really scared
Too broke to buy a team yet you think he has more cash than the other teams?
There should be 12 teams on the grid, the charter allows for it and F1 is literally at his highest peak ever. Let them in. Also let Porsche or whomever build a 12th team.
Porsche doesn't want it. And they allow new teams. But they need to show that they can do F1. So be competitive, have the finances and bring an adittion as a new brand (like a new manufacturer or a big organization like Penske).
13 teams is the full limit
The thing is, given that Haas is the smallest and poorest F1 team, is it impossible for Haas and Andretti to join forces? Seems like a win/win solution all around to me..
@@ElementsMMA Haas nor Andretti would be interested in that.
@ElementsMMA Andretti want their own team and Haas doesn't want to share the
license he could make hundreds of million off of if he waits a couple of years. I cam imagine that Haas is also tied to the Dallara deal and also the engine deal with Ferrari, but I'm not sure how long. Same woth Andretti and GM, of whom I still don't understand why they even need Andretti.
That argument from F1, that the team coming in has to be able to fight for wins and championships (being competitive) kinds of says it all. The race series has teams like Haas (who have 0 wins), sauber and aston Martin ( who have 1 win each) in their history. Then there are teams like Williams (who havent won since like 2014?) and VCARB(2 wins since 2007), Alpine, who are basically just middle of the pack 4-eva. Mclaren have just 2 wins since 2014. the only teams that are, realisticaly, competitive by those terms laid out by F1 are Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes and maybe Mclaren on the upswing now.
To make it worse Williams and McLaren haven’t won since 2012
@@harry4454 except McLaren won last weekend, their 1st win in 2.5 years.
@@decb I know…. The person said 2014 so I was correcting them
F1/ LM doing everything they can to promote the races in the USA, while denying the American team to join.. 😑
Haas is already there
@@Talentn yeah, but they've shown little sign of going anywhere interesting. Their best season was their first, back in 2016, I believe...
@@TalentnHass lost a lot of credibility for me after they sold out to the Russians.
As much as my govt wastes so much time fixing non-problems instead of the important issues, this is a waste of taxpayer resources I can get behind.😂
Yeah, Gym Jordan is doing something constructive for probably the first time ever.
@@zounds13im sure he got donations from andretti family. Nothing works in fed w/o greasing gears. Welcome to human corruption n greed. We act like its not pervasive but it is
@@zounds13 I doubt it. Jordan is an incompetent fool. If anyone in congress can botch this, it's him.
@@zounds13Right? I don't even like Jim Jordan, but the points he brings up in the letter are sound. Never thought that agreeing with Jim Jordan would be on my bingo card, but here we are.
this IS their job. he's doing exactly what ohio's tax dollars are paying him to do.
It’s pretty obvious it’s going to be the second option: legal action. F1 think they’re invincible, but they’ll find out just how mortal they are once the lawyers get involved. Their reasoning is beyond flimsy and will be absolutely demolished in court.
If FOM says an extra team would dilute the grid for the other teams then they have to write that down in the rules and limit the grid to 10 teams. But they don't want to do that, they want to have their cake AND eat it...
I can think of a 4th option. Sanctions imposed on F1 & Liberty Media. That could result in fines to denying visa to race in America. That would hurt F1 big time.
Finally a way to cut the calendar down a little bit. By three races, in fact!
@@GaryWagers There should be a rule that no single country, regardless of size, can host more than one GP. I have zero interest in more than one American or Chinese GP, and especially if that comes at the cost of classic venues, like Spa Francorchamps, Imola or Monza
@@halofreak1990 Imola and Monza are both in the same country lmao
@@GeoffWulfTime for the San Marino GP to come back then!
They would never notice zero yank land events.
Andretti with Adrian Newey and Gunther Steiner… Now there we go !
I'd be an instant fan
and Captain Florida!
Just better not look like a buncha wankers
They'll probably not get Newey, but if they did, its wraps.
and verstappen
I'm glad we're finally getting an appropriate amount of noise about the Andretti entry denial.
looks like the letter the politicians wrote is quite correct. I am surprised.
Especially considering that it was Jordan. The only thing he's ever been good at is yelling fast and interrupting people. Oh, and knowing about sexual abuse and allowing it to continue.
@@zounds13Color me surprised Jim Jordan is actually useful in that regard.
@@sigmablock Right? In ANY regard!
The amount of malice and dismissal I sensed in F1's initial rejection letter means I wouldn't be surprised if they try to shut down Andretti's UK base entirely. It obviously wouldn't work and would be extremely petty, but I wouldn't be surprised if they tried
I have to say, what baffles me is how expensive the value of NFL, NBA, Soccer teams are, yet to get into F1 is comparable to peanuts….
It’s because f1 is not nearly as popular as any of those sports. F1 is currently on the rise but nfl and nba dominate the USA which is the largest tv market by far and generate billions every year while soccer is the biggest sport on earth nothing compares. F1 is peanuts compared to them.
It's because F1 teams need soooo much money to make cars and run every season. 150 million each year is not a piece of cake. Because if you're not getting tv time and in talks enough, sponsors will not pay you. So you'll not be able to bear costs.
Also those games make so much content. Just take how many matches in a season on those sports and how many times sponsors get camera time. And see how many times you saw Williams and their sponsors. You'll get the answer.
@@rakib9420 don't NBA teams spent wayyy more on contracts alone? I think it's just a question of viewership numbers tbh
Often you get a lot of money back in value for an NFL team or NBA team, plus the often sucker cities to pay for most if not all of their stadiums.
it’s because the commercial value of F1 is wayyyyy less than them an NFL/NBA team will earn more from commercial and broadcast deals plus compared to football the nfl/nba offer safety, there is no relagation in the league and the pie share is the same and also there is the salary cap so spending is also limited
Not adding an additional team per se, merely putting 22 cars back on the grid, lost some years ago and not replaced!!
We had 26 cars not so long ago when 3 teams go duped into coming in under a cost cap that never happened. they all eventually failed. but Andretti would be a totally different entity.
@@1985slipstream Not quite, it was only 24
@@1985slipstream I can't remember the last time there were 26 cars on the grid, seems that long ago...
@@BikeNutt1970 1995 round 3.
There needs to be some kind of relegation system. It's a joke allowing teams like Williams and alpine flounder for years and not let new guys compete
Or do like MotoGP and allow satelite teams, like extend the engine supplies to entire chassis/cars. Now that we eill have Merc, Ford, Hona and Renault as power unit suppliers for 2026. Just build a bunch of chassis and sell them to satelites if you actually want more competition and entertainment value.
Ahhhh Americans are a victim of their own ambitions, expand and market F1 drastically increasing the value of f1 teams and then are pissy when they can’t get their grubby hands on it after snuffing the sport for decades. It’s like they don’t give a fuck about the sport but just want the money
F1 says a new team must be competitive to enter, defined as competing for podiums. By that definition, at least half the grid is not competitive so why exactly are they allowed to race?
cause they're talking about NEW teams not the current one's?????????, not a lot of people like those teams so why have another one of those
@@Lora_Beolab Well why do current teams deserve to be treated with priviledge when they had years to prove their worth and failed to do so? Also I disagree with your second statement, I think a lot of people like the backmarker teams and hope for their success.
Andretti just showing up to 2026 winter testing without being giving the go from FOM would be the funniest outcome of this whole sage. Made even funnier when you consider Williams missed 2 full days of testing just 5 years ago because they couldn't make all the parts
If Williams can bring that trash can week-in week-out Andretti - GM deserves to be in F1. The rejection of Andretti was pure cartel-like behaviour and saying GM doesnt have winning mentality while having Williams or RB Cash App on the grid is scandalous.
what industry do they have a cartel over exactly? This is legit the dumbest argument that Andretti has made and they know it, which is my they haven't sure to force their way in.
Why didn't Andretti buy Manor, Caterham or HRT ?
@@Dqtubethe sport was unattractive to new teams back then. The introduction of the budget cap and the upcoming engine regs is why so many different automakers became interested, Audi, GM, and Porsche for a while.
@@MichaelSpangler14 This means that he is not interested in F1 as a sport, but only in money like some of the current teams. So why should others give in and damage their investment ?
@@Dqtube Everyone is in it for money... that's the entire point.
concorde agreement means they can legitimately claim it's not opposed to expanding the grid....? Cites venues having to spend to fit in the additional team and loss of paddock space for other teams as the reasons to reject. What complete BS!
When a current F1 team or a car company in F1 wants to join another racing series, they seemingly have no issues while they're often welcomed by their competitors in those series. Like Alpine, Aston Martin and Ferrari joining the WEC or when McLaren went into Indycar.
Actually, McLaren bought into a team to enter IndyCar full time
Remember when you went to bat for FOM and said "Trust the process and try again next time"?
Delay helps Liberty Media and the current teams. Under the 2021 Concord agreement a new team has to pay $200M to mitigate commercial dilution to the tem teams. A new Concord agreement might raise that to $600M if the teams are to get their way. That would stop any entry new team entry dead. Andretti, or any new team, will need to enter the current Concord agreement even if they only participate under a new agreement in 2026. Is this anti-competitive behaviour? Whatever the law may say this is clearly an effort by the teams to grab a big pile of cash. From the outside I'd say the US government and Andretti have a very good case against Liberty and the teams. It's a shame that this video didn't mention any of this.
The basic reality is that their answer is simply justifying their "no". They started with "no" and quickly arrived at vague reasons as to why it was a no. Had they started with a "yes" and tried to find good reason for it not working, the end result would have stayed "yes".
I dont really care who it is. More cars = more fun
Fake fans
The longer F1 and Liberty Media keep trying to deny Andretti, the more Andretti will benefit from this in court of public opinion.
Eventually, they will be seen as the underdog.
Imagine, Andretti is allowed to compete, but all the other teams refuse contact with them in any way.
It is said that in F1 you need friends, with Andretti being the outlier there, people will notice and they will align themselves with the underdog.
As LawVS puts it, this is pretty much like the Coolrunnings movie.
Whether Andretti is allowed to compete or not, he already won.
Is that USA education logic?
@@ronbelanger4113 no, it's coppium.
It baffles me how they think the Andretti name means little to nothing to F1 fans….
For most F1 fans it doesn't resonate much no.
it don't the one time mario got the gold was more chapman then mario
Been a fan of F1 since 97 and I have no interest in Andretti. Means nothing.
@soundscape26 Well Mario Andretti is the 1978 World Champion so you come over as rather ignorant. Micheal also raced in 1993
They don't really think that. It's just a pretext.
Solid, comprehensive look into the issues surrounding F1’s refusal to allow Andretti in. It does seem boorish and I’m bad taste to shut them down albeit the short-term engine supplier is a decent argument. BUT considering Red Bull just basically ripped off Hondas intellectual property and will be sharing it (assumedly) with Ford kinda chills that argument, too. 🤷♂️
I’d love to see Andretti compete
Pepperidge Farm remembers when there was 11 teams on the grid.
I remember when there were 13 teams or more. At one point in the late 80s/early 90s, there were 39 cars fighting for 26 grid spots.
@@jeffwood1631 There were 13 teams on the grid in 2010-2014 as well, but none of those extra entries survived. I wonder if Manor would still be around if Bianchi hadn't suffered his accident, as they folded at the end of that season, despite having a car pretty much finished for the following one.
Honestly if Andretti wanted into F1 to easiest way to force it would be to get GM to hire Newey and then parade that at all the meetings
This is probably a more difficult path forward because Newey has no goddamn reason in the world to sign on to a rookie team who doesn't have a grid spot in hopes that they might in the future. Newey to GM is just an absurd pipedream that makes no sense for the man himself.
What an absolutely brilliant idea! And Newey might actually be tempted by the challenge of a brand new car and team.
@@kurtpittman7225 100% true if Newey is only caring about F1. However GM could offer him a wealth, like he's never had, in work on hypercars, sports cars, and GM's multiple other race teams. It very unlikely but Newey could be swayed by working on the GTP or maybe even a production Thunderblade
Didn't they used to let anyone enter qualifying? So some teams would only enter their local GP?
There was significantly less money involved back then. No carbon fibre, little to no aero, no sopnsors, no expensive TV rights
Prior to 1981 season.
Its all about money in the end, just like what happens to football
@@johannessamuelsson6578 and the rules were more open, too. You could enter F1 with a Formula 2 chassis. Just slap a more powerful engine in it, and you're part of the circus. Yeah, you'll likely fail to qualify, but, hey, at least you're an "F1 team", right?
Bottom Line: 1) Wolff is scared of falling behind yet another team. 2) Based on the F1 logic, any team that has not consistently battled for podiums for (5, 10 or 15?) years should liquidated. 3) None of them want to let a luxury brand US manufacturer into the Monopoly board.
F1 becoming a sports league is an issue. There should be no barrier to entry beyond the car regulations. If you can get a team together, let alone bring your own spec engine, you should be allowed to race.
If that became a 'thing' the value of these teams would plummet. Racing Point/Aston/Stroll Industries just got valued at 1.2B last year, Alpine was 1B. All of that would go out of the window if you could just wrexham your way into F1 and compete for scores of millions of dollars.
Sidebar: i cannot believe Williams was sold for less than 250M. That family can do nothing right.
It’s a shame how bad they treat one of their own champions. If the rumors are true and the next concord agreement locks the grid at 10 teams i’m done with f1.
he got his ass kicked the moment the grid got ground effects
Bye.
@@nate567987 No he was talking about Mario Andretti, not Michael
Honestly I'm embarrassed that I still pay it any attention at all. Force of habit, I guess.
@@smokeybandit9760 so was Nate.
The U.S government should say to FIA and F1 that if they don't give the green light to Andretti they won't held anymore U.S grand prix.
That would be perfect scenario.
Miami & Vegas or any other street circuit should not be on the calendar.
F1 is becoming car park racing.
Except they’d have to then address all other monopolies equally and that won’t happen. It is well past due as we’re back to the monopoly levels of the robber baron era. But there’s no political will from either Dems or Republicans. They know who pays there bills.
I do think if they keep up with these dumb behaviours then Liberty Media is gonna get hit by some lawsuit. They won't even have to cancel any GP, Liberty Media would much rather let them in rather than get smacked by a massive fine.
@@aiv4873Fines are just legal crimes for rich people, and F1 is loaded.
Good
We should have a league system.
F1 : top 10 teams, bottom 2 go down a legue every season.
F2 : Lower 9 to 13 teams, top 2 go up every season.
F1 and F2 use the same car and financial regs.
F1 uses current format (no sprint races tho)
F2 has FP1 and FP2 on Thursday, FP3 and quali on Friday and F2 race on Saturday.
F2 would race on every other race weekend
The face F2 and F1 get the same cost cap but F2 races less races means that F2 teams should be able to compete with F1 teams when they get promoted as they will have spent more time, money and effort into building theylre cars due to the lower expenditure
very un-American
20 cars on the grid isn't enough. I remember when there were over 40 teams and pre-qualifying was needed.
I can't wait to see this legislated somehow to force their hand. This entire denial is madness.
As an American I wrote my representatives about this as well. They want our money and locations but not our teams. It angers me honestly how they treat Andretti A F1 World champion. I hope something happens over it. I'll continue to contact my reps over it.
I hope f1 leaves America for good
Andretti was born in Italy..
They want your teams if they are as an organization capable of proving they have staying power. They made the mistake in the past with teams like Haas, and don't want to do it again. Also, if an American manufacturer comes it, it would be very different. They don't care about some small time organization like Andretti that never even build their own car has only a third of the amount of people Williams has that's perceived to be a small team.
@YosefCardoso No, we want more money to take care of the stream of refugees you create by storting two illegal wars in the middle east basically allowing ISIS to come up. Or what about money to compensate for what we're paying for energy because you played Ukraine into provoking Russia to invade them? Also, how about compensating us the Durch for missing out on China deals, most notably in lithography machines because you started a trade war with China meaning ASML can't sell machines to Chinese clients anymore? Which in turn means that China is probably going to steal the tech and will still create those chips?
Would you like me to continue? Not even talking about the fact that this has nothing to do with F1. Andretti is too small, and didn't proof they are capable and only got a manufacturer afterwards which initially didn't even want to make an engine. This is not a trustworthy basis.
GM should come by themselves and then maybe let the cars get build by Andretti. But they should just build their own racing team.
As an American fan of F1 and IndyCar I have to say that this dispute has been pushing me back towards Indycar. I have always preferred road and grad prix racing to ovals, but F1 just feels more and more like the old money of racing, more concerned with protecting their social status than producing great races. Let Andretti in. If they can’t compete then they won’t stay. Or maybe Haas or Williams or another team will fold. Shouldn’t that also be part of the sport?
IndyCar has its own problems. Did you hear Zac Brown trying to liit grid sizes to 20 cars? Yeah, he said that. Besides, FOM don't want teams collapsing mid-season like some of the Italian teams in the 90s anymore.
@@johannessamuelsson6578 pray that doesnt happen but there doesnt need to be a limit on how many cars a team can run. i think 3 (4 for the 500) would be perfect
If they can;t compete they would have costed F1 and the teams a lot of money, That is exactly the problem with the small teams that entered in the past. Teams like Marussia and HRT. To prevent this from happening again, F1 has very strict norms. Andretti wasn't able to answer to those norms in the end. And in reality they won't be able to unless they are bringing a manufacturer which the will by 2028, if the GM-thing isn't BS (which it could be, since they only came on board later on and at first didn't want to make their own engine and afterwards all of a sudden did, but I truly wonder if they understand what this takes).
To the guys in the race: Guys, don't take any house text as something that has anymore than lobbying and money attached to it. THere's always a representative willing to beef his campaign donations.
I guess, they may have more important things to focus on, but anyways...
F1 to me is a sport, sports should never be franchises in my opinion. The suitability for any team to compete in a sport is solely to be assessed by the regulator of said sport. If there is space for another team and an applicant does fulfill the requirements to join, this opportunity must be granted. Also, commercial value cannot be an argument when you have Alpine or VCARB and if a manufacturer deal is not enough, then as a Sauber-fan it hurts me to say, they also shouldn't be on the grid. Further, the assessment that F1 brings commercial value to Andretti may be correct, however they already do so, and right now F1 is hurting itself by rejecting the team, so yes, F1 brings value to the Andretti brand, already without Andretti being part of F1.
Shock “what if”: Newey to Caddy F1.
If there is a "clock" ticking, it's that Mario is 84. He appears to be in good health, but he can't wait forever.
Wow, I’m really gonna agree with Gym Jordan on something today, that’s a first
same here
F1 vs the American Government. I’ll take the side of the one with an $850 billion defense budget
Well F1 doesn't have a defence budget because it's not a country, so on your dumbass logic, I will go will go with the one that runs a racing championship
Money doesn't mean anything here kid. Politics and weird agendas do.
@@antoniohagopian213 money mean everything here... F1 is a business that denied Andretti entirely on a financial basis...
@@antoniohagopian213 first off, don’t call me kid.
Secondly, money may not but you know what does mean something? When an A-10 Warthog is flying above the FOM headquarters, fully armed. This is America, we may not have free healthcare, but we do give free un-healthcare to the world
The real defense budget is many times that.
I want Team Andretti in F1 but I don't see why US Government figures should be trying to mandate entry to sports leagues. The NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL are constantly limiting entry to compete in their leagues. Why is this different than all the times in the decades past that entry to a sports league has been denied to ownership groups?
……because there is an American component to it. It’s the preventing of the entry of an American entrant with a strong brand identity and deep pockets into what is clearly a Euro-centric sport. It’s become a “national” issue.
Amen brother! I was looking for this comment in the sea of so many braindead ones! Like take Seattle or Las Vegas for example, they have been actively trying to enter the NBA for years now and still without any success. Should they cry at US Government officials to get their spot?! These are privately owned leagues, not state owned, the owners have full discretion to decide who will they let compete and who won't.
Because they all have to make major concessions to Congress for those antitrust protections (NFL having incredibly strict amateur competition exclusion windows, and aggressive anti siphoning rules for example)
That’s also not getting into how much it would cost to justify a new franchise in the Big 4, and the whole structure for the farm teams in the three that have them
Yeah, I think the big thing is the bait and switch. The "sure, we're accepting new teams to the grid." Then someone spends a billion or so putting together a team that could probably fight the backmarkers by year 2. Then FOM goes "Uhh...wait...umm...here are some extra requirements" [ignores that half of the existing teams don't meet those requirements]. The US does not take kindly to companies screwing other companies over.
Like, the reason much of the US doesn't enforce anti-recruiting clauses is because it would be unfair to the hiring company...not for worker's rights.
Unless there's a personal vendetta against Andretti from someone inside the liberty media, it would be logical for US government to intervene why Andretti cannot join.
FREEDOM HAS ENTERED THE CHAT🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
If F1 wants to lose its US fanbase, blocking Andretti is the ideal way to do it.
Nobody gives a flying Johnson about the murica fan base.
@@alb9229 The hell they don't. Why else would F1 push so hard to expand in America in the first place?
@@alb9229 if you don't want F1 to grow then sure.
@@unishot619 Having another Haas in the paddock will have absolutely no impact into F1 groth rate . What has an impact into F1 groth rate are the technical regulations , make the technical regulations exciting ( faster more nimble cars that allow for intense battles like it was the case in the 2000-2010 era ) and watch the groth rate explode.
@@brocktj4 F1 only wants american money. They don't give a shit about fans or Andretti.
The excuse that some of the venues don't have space is ridiculous. All you have to do is go back a few years and watch the races and you can see that they are racing at the same places and there were more than just 10 teams.
Now, remember, when Sulayem commented on price of FOG, they were furious - he shouldn't put his nose into commercial aspect, they said. Well, it's same here - FOG shouldn't put their nose into organization and regulation. It's FIA's business. If FIA approved a new entrant, new race in calendar or a new rule, FOG should obey without a word.
"Cartel like behaviour"? Exactly like every US based sport does!!
Seeing how keen F1 has been on the US with multiple races there and DTS, it’s weird they won’t bring in an AMERICAN TEAM!
They allow RedBull to have two teams but won’t allow Andretti so as to not dilute the other teams. What?
If you’re hard insistent on a number of cars/teams, why not let the sport be a sport and teams have to qualify for the season?
they have one
and RB is a grandfather cluse
You forget HAAS
Haas is American.
@@nate567987Ah yes, the Once Russian-backed, Italian powered AND designed American F1 team who primarily uses their UK base for operations
i think it would be cool to see 2 new teams come in at 2028, this gives GM/Andretti tons of time to prepare their infrastructure, get a hang of their development/etc; and all the tracks have suitable time to make upgrades/plan for the bigger grid. move towards giving points down to 12th maybe as low as 14th (they were discussing moving the points to 12th in the 20 car grid so 14th would be kinda the same in a 24 car grid), and bring in either a new works team (they will have the budgets to compete or try to compete immediately) OR a proven f2 team that is able to make the change or expansion.
I love the argument that it'd be a burden for facilities to handle an 11th team when not long ago there was more teams. Is that code for they were too cheap to build Las Vegas and Miami to support more than 10 teams and don't want to be holding the bag for their shortsightedness?
Isn't this EXACTLY how the NFL NHL MLB etc all work??
This is what I'm wondering. All the North American sports leagues constantly limit and choose who competes in their leagues. Only reason I can see US Representatives might take this up as a political cause is because GM made some fat donations to their Political Action Committee.
Yes, that is my position too
That's why nothing should be based in the usa. Rotten to the core.
No NFL. NBA. and others have added new teams in the past multiple times
It’s a US vs. Europe thing.
I don't believe for a second f1 made any real attempt at an in person meeting. That has every earmark of a fake "invite" that they could use against andretti because of the nature of that ONE message ending up not received.
I really do doubt those people who actually watched F1 likes “More the better” approach. More cars, for most of F1s history, just meant more back-markers and more “moving chicane” related problems. Back when we had 26 cars, Caterham/Lotus/Virgin teams collectively scored 1 point in their entire history and in 91, when there were 19 teams, 4 teams never scored a point and 11 teams were less than 5 points.
20 right now, is a good number.
On the other hand, I am strongly in favour of selling of Haas or Alpine to Andretti, especially Alpine.
"We don't think they can be competitive in F1" So winning championships in Formula E and IndyCar (arguably the two closest series to F1) doesn't show any ability to compete in F1? What would someone need to do in order to be able to show that they'd be competitive in F1? Build an F1 car and run time trials on all tracks?
That is just an attempt at bullying tactics that won't work at all. How long ago did Andretti last win the Indy 500? Man, Penske and Ganassi have more racing pedigree. The notion that Cadillac means something big is mute (where are they in the Le Mans series?). Andretti is just an average spec-car team. That's it. And if US people think otherwise it's just their imaginative self-worth being hurt.
Andretti won the 500 in 2017, and just one formula e last year if im not mistaken. They also recently won the 12 hours of sebring
F1 is a battle of money, GM has essentially infinite money and more than a century of automotive/motorsports experience, if you think that they can't contribute anything to the grid you're being disingenuous.
@@not_even_me5035 Well, Toyota was in the same league and left without success. Money alone does not win races. What have GM achieved against other manufacturers in motor sport?
@@cwc6632 GM is the most successful manufacturer in NASCAR, the most successful engine supplier in Indycar, the one of the winningest manufacturers in IMSA, not to mention that GM won the WEC GTE championship last year with their Corvette C8r, plus their V-series.R is fairly successful in the WEC.
@@not_even_me5035 Are you really equating NASCAR with F1? Or a localised series like IMSA? And how is the "fairly successful" Corvette helping in your argument?
The whole "American consumers" angle is such bs.
The whole argument is
I always found it laughable that they said Andretti would bring no value to F1. An American team with a huge name in American motorsport joining a sport that's trying to expand its appeal in the USA would only add value.
And for value, what do the other teams bring?
Alpine, Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull, and Williams have won multiple championships in their current and/or previous guises.
Aston, RB, and Sauber have won Grands Prix in their current and/or previous guises.
So what about Haas? What value do they bring?
They've have had a single sprint pole and 0 podiums in 8.2 seasons and have solely been a Ferrari customer team.
Since their debut they've amassed 256 points, ahead only of Sauber/Alfa (213) and Manor (1, but only competed in 1 of the 8 seasons).
Their academy has had a total of 5 drivers with a combined 2 Grands Prix starts.
They had Nikita Mazepin.
So if an argument is that Andretti would bring no value to F1, what value do Haas bring other than bringing the grid to 20 cars?
PS as I write this comment it's the 11th anniversary of Ferlonso's last F1 win.
I see this happening
F1 begrudgingly allows Andretti to run
First race it runs and it makes in to q2 but every lap is "disqualified" due to "1960's rule book reasons that nobody enforces
Start at the back of the field due to "inadequate part change"
Finishes 9th and 10th but FIA gives them a 15 second penalty for "fuel usage" keeping them out of the points and this goes on for the whole season every season that the FIA just fuck with them until they leave.
How can a channel as big as this be so selective with their reporting? Where's the commentary on the discussions for a new Concorde Agreement which will limit the number of teams to 10 for 2026 to 2030? Where's the actual mention of only GM being invited to be a works supplier sans Andretti? Stop being an F1/FOM stooge and report responsibly! Hardly ever see this channel being invited to any special F1 events or being provided any breaking F1 news, so why worry about the risk of irking F1/FOM.
It’s TH-cam. Anyone with a laptop can call themselves a journalist. CameronF1 thinks watching the driver sessions on Sky means he’s doing journalism. Most TH-camrs are just repurposing content from Twitter and a few real magazines. Pointless to get worked up about poseurs.
Andretti buys RB, solves two farces at once?
doesn't increase the number of cars on the grid though
@@Reiver-93 Exactly. Then there's no monetary loss per team since that's all F1 seems to care about anyway.
I thought that if no deal could be done, then the engine with the fewest users would be the one that Andretti would get. Therefore it would be Renault with or without a deal between them, right?
I agree, but we must also understand the point of view of existing teams. Will the presence of a new team benefit the existing teams or will it be beneficial only to the new team?
And think of the smaller teams, that struggle to find sponsors and can't even have an income to march the cost cap. Will it be even more difficult to find one, once the "available space" will be watered down? Even Ferrari spent months without a title sponsor, and we had recent examples of other shaky sponsoring.
I really think is as simple as that. Why Williams (to name one) should say yes to Andretti if they will lose money or even worse risk to go out of business? And it's up to Andretti to bring these figures instead of going through their political referent (and guess what will an American committee decide between the interests of an American corporation, especially a popular one, and European ones.)
Andretti is supported by Jim Jordan? Well, i guess F1 made the right option.
Furthermore, the USA making a fuss about this when ALL of their professional sports are based on franchises that only accept new teams if they want to, is just absurd.
For those not in the US, ignore Gym Jordan. Allegedly he covered up the molestation of 177 of his Ohio state students by his employees and was intimately involved in the insurrection.
So he has no way of actually doing anything with this
Totally grandstanding. Never passes legislation and is desperately trying to organize a coup to become house speaker. If not a congressman he’d have been tried for Jan 6.
Insurrection ha ha ha ha ha
When I started watching F1 there were 26 cars on the grid. It then got to about 40 cars with pre-qualifying to get the top 26. This is all nonsense - the tracks can accommodate them, this is just like the Premier League - the top teams want to keep prize money for themselves and are threatened by anyone breaking the cartel.
I believe Option 02 is in the works and the US Congress stepping in is the first phase toward that depending on their response. Either way I believe Andretti Global will get in and that the F1 Teams are afraid of this full works entry and by denying their entry they believe GM Cadillac will then join forces with one of the 10 existing teams which will not happen. I see Andretti Global as have upper hand and still has the Ace of Spades of play.